who was better?

[goodessa]

houston yates 85 vs dallas carter 88

[Bass]

lol

[TheScout]

houston yates 85 vs dallas carter 88
easy....yates

[BlackAttack]

houston yates 85 vs dallas carter 88

Who was better, Cookie Monster or Oscar the Grouch?

[TheScout]

Who was better, Cookie Monster or Oscar the Grouch?
Cookie Monster

[CCDawgs]

Who was better, Cookie Monster or Oscar the Grouch?
HANDS DOWN COOKIE MONSTER :notworthy

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Speaking of Carter, Gary Edwards was on the Michael Irvin show yesterday talking about the '88 season. I only got to hear bits and pieces though, since I was at work. Gary now works for the city of Dallas, and has written a book that is due to come out pretty soon.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

For all the hype of Carter those guys had some very tight games in the playoffs.

Plano East 1st round game was 7-7 in the forth until two late TD's in the final 6 minutes won it for Carter, of course you had the Marshall game down in Waco for the region final I believe that was won in the last 7 seconds on a pass from Armstead on the 3.

In contrast Yates pretty much whipped everyone out in the regular season and the playoffs except 1 playoff game against a similar Houston team which I can't remember. Other than that their games were BLOWOUTS. Ask Permian who got whipped pretty bad 37-0 in the state final

[elkfbfan]

I'd have to see Yates also- look at their scores from that season. Carter had a ton of talent, but they may have coasted some.

[KT2000]

I have both teams on film and I would say 85 Yates hands down.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

I have both teams on film and I would say 85 Yates hands down.

No doubt. Carter was all defense and limited O.

What was the one playoff game that Yates won a close high scoring affair. I believe it was in the region final against another team in their district it was like 35-28 something similar.

Thanks

[E-Vol-ution]

Carter 88 by a long shot. Jesse Armstead, Clifton Abraham, Deshai Maston all played as first stringers in the NFL. Derric Evans, Cherry.....too much talent there. The defense was offensive.........

[CCBoy]

For all the hype of Carter those guys had some very tight games in the playoffs.

Plano East 1st round game was 7-7 in the forth until two late TD's in the final 6 minutes won it for Carter, of course you had the Marshall game down in Waco for the region final I believe that was won in the last 7 seconds on a pass from Armstead on the 3.

In contrast Yates pretty much whipped everyone out in the regular season and the playoffs except 1 playoff game against a similar Houston team which I can't remember. Other than that their games were BLOWOUTS. Ask Permian who got whipped pretty bad 37-0 in the state final

As a Carter fan I'd love to say Carter, but I never saw that Yates team. I heard alot about them and I know they were real. One thing in defense of Carter is that they only practiced once or twice during the week due to them being ruled out, them being reinstated, and the head coach was in Austin everday. This would be very draining for any team, but they still found ways to win big games through it all. All great teams don't win big, but ................................THEY WIN!!! Just like SLC's great teams did when they dominated how they gritted it out when they were backed against the wall. They had some tough district games. It happens!

I will say Yates was the better team!;)

[ImATaQUitO]

Carter 88 by a long shot. Jesse Armstead, Clifton Abraham, Deshai Maston all played as first stringers in the NFL. Derric Evans, Cherry.....too much talent there. The defense was offensive.........


The question was about the best TEAM, not who had the most NFL Prospects/Talent. That's what a lot of people cannot seem to separate in their minds. Where I am right now (Mississippi) has more players per capita (Cali has more overall) in the NFL than any other state, but they don't have the overall TEAM strength across the board that you see in Texas. Don't get me wrong, I think it's something to be very proud of, sending the local boys to the NFL, but that doesn't make that TEAM the best. :)

[E-Vol-ution]

I just name dropped....That team was the best. Their defense was offensive. No way anybody was scoring multiple times on them. You guys may want to peak at Dangerfield 83 also.
Mississippi truly does put out great players...but the teams are rarely complete, defense dominates, no kicking game, no passing game, less x and o football.
The question was about the best TEAM, not who had the most NFL Prospects/Talent. That's what a lot of people cannot seem to separate in their minds. Where I am right now (Mississippi) sends more players per capita (I believe Cali sends more overall) to the NFL than any other state, but they don't have the overall TEAM strength across the board that you see in Texas. Don't get me wrong, I think it's something to be very proud of, sending the local boys to the NFL, but that doesn't make that TEAM the best. :)

[Exwildcat79]

Yates hands down. I remember watching the finals when they whooped Mojo. The TV announcers couldn't come up with a better analogy than comparing Permian to cockroaches. If you stomp them in the kitchen, they pop up in the livingroom. This was at the beginning of the broadcast. There was not a lot to say at the end but D*MN!!!:(

[SLC]

Guys the answer to me is simple.. Yates.

[Ageless1]

Yates without a doubt, not taking anything away from Carter but geeesh the UIL had to force Yates to put in the 3rd teamers (JV players) in the state game. Luther Booker was truly blessed with some talented athletes and for the record I'm more of a Carter fan than Jack Yates. Johnny Bailey was just unstoppable. Along with Dotson and some others that went on to have outstanding college and pro careers.

I believe someone mentioned another team that played them close that year from the Houston area I want to say that was Madison or Sterling. I think San Antonio Holmes with the Cash brothers and Johnny Walker gave Yates a run for their money too.

[SLC93]

Who was better, Cookie Monster or Oscar the Grouch?

Cookie Monster is the most overlooked stud on Sesame Street. How the spare Elmo got all the pub he has is beyond me. What the hellz did Elmo ever prove on the Street. Give me Cookie Monster, Ernie, Oscar and Grover, in that order.

[Exwildcat79]

Don't forget Amimal. He was one bad *ss drummer!!

[SLC93]

Carter 88 by a long shot. Jesse Armstead, Clifton Abraham, Deshai Maston all played as first stringers in the NFL. Derric Evans, Cherry.....too much talent there. The defense was offensive.........

No doubt but their offense was flat average. I've said it many times, 1988 Carter is the most over rated of all the teams that come up in the alltime debate. Their record was not perfect. They were challenged to the closing moments far too many times and were given one victory. To be fair, 87 Carter was more talented. I love, love, love me some Armstead and Maston was/is dramatically under rated but this squads place in history is the direct result of two things. The first would be all the controversy that surrounded it. The second would be that DISD was sooooooooo starved for a winner.

[SLC93]

Don't forget Amimal. He was one bad *ss drummer!!

Animal was a Muppet. He didn't reside on the Street. He was a bad ***, though.:D

[SLC93]

Yates, period.

[SLC]

Cookie Monster is the most overlooked stud on Sesame Street. How the spare Elmo got all the pub he has is beyond me. What the hellz did Elmo ever prove on the Street. Give me Cookie Monster, Ernie, Oscar and Grover, in that order.



Hey yall dont forget Big Bird... He was the man.. He even has his on star on the walk of fame in Hollywood..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Big_Bird_Walk_of_Fame_4-20-06.jpg

[E-Vol-ution]

Controversy and starvation regarding school district success? That kind of shows clouded judgement with a little SLC cherry on top. Why make it about maligning DISD? What you deem controversy is seen as overcoming distraction by many.
The Chicago Bears are a direct example of defense winning a championship. Yates had an explosive offense. Carter had a explosive defense and a good running game for offense. Great defense scores points where as great offense can easily be overrated. Not saying Yates was by any means.[/b]

No doubt but their offense was flat average. I've said it many times, 1988 Carter is the most over rated of all the teams that come up in the alltime debate. Their record was not perfect. They were challenged to the closing moments far too many times and were given one victory. To be fair, 87 Carter was more talented. I love, love, love me some Armstead and Maston was/is dramatically under rated but this squads place in history is the direct result of two things. The first would be all the controversy that surrounded it. The second would be that DISD was sooooooooo starved for a winner.

[KT2000]

Yates without a doubt, not taking anything away from Carter but geeesh the UIL had to force Yates to put in the 3rd teamers (JV players) in the state game. Luther Booker was truly blessed with some talented athletes and for the record I'm more of a Carter fan than Jack Yates. Johnny Bailey was just unstoppable. Along with Dotson and some others that went on to have outstanding college and pro careers.

Melvin Foster (LB) was the best player on that team along with Bailey in my opinion.

[Frobeus]

03 NS :D and Snuffalufogas FTW ! :D

[85Roughneck]

Houston Jack Yates High School is my pick.

'85 Yates playoff scores:

51-0 Yates over Sam Houston
43-0 Yates over Spring Woods
19-6 Yates over West Orange Stark
21-15 Yates over Houston Jones
34-7 Yates over San Antonio Holmes
37-0 Yates over Odessa Permian

I couldn't find the regular season scores, but I sure would like to see them as well. Please post the regular season scores if you have them.

[SLC93]

Controversy and starvation regarding school district success? That kind of shows clouded judgement with a little SLC cherry on top. Why make it about maligning DISD? What you deem controversy is seen as overcoming distraction by many.
The Chicago Bears are a direct example of defense winning a championship. Yates had an explosive offense. Carter had a explosive defense and a good running game for offense. Great defense scores points where as great offense can easily be overrated. Not saying Yates was by any means.

Not maligning DISD at all. I was merely stating the fact that DISD had not produced a winner like Carter in many decades and a champion in even longer. Those facts are indisputable and it is perfectly natural for a community to grab on to the winner it has waited so long for. That's clear thinking, not clouded judgement. Perhaps I needed to clarify controversy. What I should have said was due to the extensive and exhaustive media coverage of this team during their grades investigation and post season robbery scandal, 1988 Carter is embedded into our memory far deeper than any level of football would ever place it. That, again, is undeniable and a distinct advantage this squad has over others. Everyone knows about this team, like it or not and regardless of age. Yates had an explosive offense that complented a great defense or are you forgetting all the shutouts they pitched? I know Permian will never forget getting blanked in the title game.

[SLC93]

Hey yall dont forget Big Bird... He was the man.. He even has his on star on the walk of fame in Hollywood..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Big_Bird_Walk_of_Fame_4-20-06.jpg

Bird goes without saying. He is the Big remember?:D

[dada]

Houston Jack Yates High School is my pick.

'85 Yates playoff scores:

51-0 Yates over Sam Houston
43-0 Yates over Spring Woods
19-6 Yates over West Orange Stark
21-15 Yates over Houston Jones
34-7 Yates over San Antonio Holmes
37-0 Yates over Odessa Permian

I couldn't find the regular season scores, but I sure would like to see them as well. Please post the regular season scores if you have them.

Regular Season:

31-0 over Houston Washington
46-16 over West Brook
26-7 over Worthing
70-0 over Houston Austin
51-0 over Houston Milby
27-14 over Houston Madison
48-6 over Houston Sterling
72-0 over Houston Davis
13-6 over Houston Jones
68-0 over Wheatly

16-0
PF 659 41.1 ppg
PA 77 4.8 ppg

[E-Vol-ution]

In all fairness isn't a combination of posting not only scores for Carter, but looking at the win/loss record of opponents a better barometer?Regular Season:

31-0 over Houston Washington
46-16 over West Brook
26-7 over Worthing
70-0 over Houston Austin
51-0 over Houston Milby
27-14 over Houston Madison
48-6 over Houston Sterling
72-0 over Houston Davis
13-6 over Houston Jones
68-0 over Wheatly

16-0
PF 659 41.1 ppg
PA 77 4.8 ppg

[dada]

In all fairness isn't a combination of posting not only scores for Carter, but looking at the win/loss record of opponents a better barometer?

give me a second....might take some time

[mojoman21]

i saw both teams and yates was the best team i've ever seen to this day.

[dada]

In all fairness isn't a combination of posting not only scores for Carter, but looking at the win/loss record of opponents a better barometer?

1988 Carter

21-7 over John Tyler
25-24 over Killeen
31-0 over FW Wyatt
34-7 over SOC
27-0 over Grand Prarrie
7-0 over De Soto
24-24 tie Duncanville
10-0 over S. Grand Prairie
50-2 over Kimball
21-7 over Plano east
28-0 over Dall. Sam
31-7 over Lufkin
22-18 over Marshall
14-9 over Permian
31-14 over Judson

PF: 376 25.0 ppg
PA: 119 7.9 ppg



Now I have to go to the Barber shop so I can look pretty for the Katy game tonight.....maybe someone can go back and dig up all the opponets W/L records.

[85Roughneck]

give me a second....might take some time

man, I've been searching and couldn't find anything. Where you lookin'?

[dada]

man, I've been searching and couldn't find anything. Where you lookin'?

http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=24873

[85Roughneck]

maybe someone can go back and dig up all the opponets W/L records.

no need to bother ... Yates was clearly better, much better.

[85Roughneck]

http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=24873


niiiiiiice ! Thanks!

[PermianFan]

Carter or Yates? LOL. I can't believe you are even comparing the two of them. You might make the argument that Carter was in the top 10, but that's about all.

Yates. No contest.

[Maroondog]

Yates was a much better team, no question.

[CCHS77]

Yates

[HomeofChampions'06]

Most definitely Yates...and it doesn't stop with that '85 team.

I like how this thread is a hybrid between Sesame Street and 80s Texas high school football. Two of the greatest things I grew up with. :D

[Shamu85]

You might even be able to make an argument that Houston Jones that year was as good as '88 Carter. I never realized that they played Yates that close. Both games, too. Wow, that had to suck having two teams as good as they were in the same district.

Does anyone else find it amazing that WOS is now a 3A school? That just blows me away. That they have lost as much enrollment as they have and still maintain the quality of play that they do.

BTW, I know all you 5A purists will say no way a 3A school could have competed, but the '83 Daingerfield Tigers were one of the top 5 or so all time, regardless of classification along with the '83 Bay City team that didn't get any pub because of the D'field team. Daingerfield beat a 4A semi-finalist that year 10-6 in a game that was nowhere near as close as the score would indicate. Those were the only points scored on them all year, and it was on an interception return. D'field promptly blocked their PAT.:D Bay City beat a Thurman Thomas led Willowridge team 42-0 in the quarterfinals. Here's these two teams' playoff scores.

Bay City 33, Huntsville 9
Bay City 20, Georgetown 6
Bay City 42, Fort Bend Willowridge 0
Bay City 49, New Braunfels 6
Bay City 30, Lubbock Estacado 0 (LE had beaten the Carthage team 20-16 in the semis. that was the 4A team referenced above)

Daingerfield 43, Clarksville 0
Daingerfield 22, Robinson 0
Daingerfield 49, Kaufman 0
Daingerfield 51, Gladewater 0
Daingerfield 42, Post 0
Daingerfield 42, Sweeny 0

Big Bird? Please. I hate that guy. Now Cookie Monster is the man, and Grover is way underrated.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

It's pretty simple for TGO...

1. '85 Yates ranks #2 in TGO's Top 25 (roc), All-Time.

2. '88 Carter ranks just outside of #25 in TGO's Top 25 (roc), All-Time.

[SLC93]

You might even be able to make an argument that Houston Jones that year was as good as '88 Carter. I never realized that they played Yates that close. Both games, too. Wow, that had to suck having two teams as good as they were in the same district.

Does anyone else find it amazing that WOS is now a 3A school? That just blows me away. That they have lost as much enrollment as they have and still maintain the quality of play that they do.

BTW, I know all you 5A purists will say no way a 3A school could have competed, but the '83 Daingerfield Tigers were one of the top 5 or so all time, regardless of classification along with the '83 Bay City team that didn't get any pub because of the D'field team. Daingerfield beat a 4A semi-finalist that year 10-6 in a game that was nowhere near as close as the score would indicate. Those were the only points scored on them all year, and it was on an interception return. D'field promptly blocked their PAT.:D Bay City beat a Thurman Thomas led Willowridge team 42-0 in the quarterfinals. Here's these two teams' playoff scores.

Bay City 33, Huntsville 9
Bay City 20, Georgetown 6
Bay City 42, Fort Bend Willowridge 0
Bay City 49, New Braunfels 6
Bay City 30, Lubbock Estacado 0 (LE had beaten the Carthage team 20-16 in the semis. that was the 4A team referenced above)

Daingerfield 43, Clarksville 0
Daingerfield 22, Robinson 0
Daingerfield 49, Kaufman 0
Daingerfield 51, Gladewater 0
Daingerfield 42, Post 0
Daingerfield 42, Sweeny 0

Big Bird? Please. I hate that guy. Now Cookie Monster is the man, and Grover is way underrated.

92 Carroll > 83 Daingerfield - ;)

Yup & yup.

[Jayhawker]

The question was about the best TEAM, not who had the most NFL Prospects/Talent. That's what a lot of people cannot seem to separate in their minds. Where I am right now (Mississippi) has more players per capita (Cali has more overall) in the NFL than any other state, but they don't have the overall TEAM strength across the board that you see in Texas. Don't get me wrong, I think it's something to be very proud of, sending the local boys to the NFL, but that doesn't make that TEAM the best. :)

there is NO shame in Mississippi, if you have any doubts see: South Panola.

" Even former South Panola Tigers playing in the NFL have been known to recognize the University of South Panola as their alma mater"

[New Guy in Town]

You might even be able to make an argument that Houston Jones that year was as good as '88 Carter. I never realized that they played Yates that close. Both games, too. Wow, that had to suck having two teams as good as they were in the same district.

Does anyone else find it amazing that WOS is now a 3A school? That just blows me away. That they have lost as much enrollment as they have and still maintain the quality of play that they do.

BTW, I know all you 5A purists will say no way a 3A school could have competed, but the '83 Daingerfield Tigers were one of the top 5 or so all time, regardless of classification along with the '83 Bay City team that didn't get any pub because of the D'field team. Daingerfield beat a 4A semi-finalist that year 10-6 in a game that was nowhere near as close as the score would indicate. Those were the only points scored on them all year, and it was on an interception return. D'field promptly blocked their PAT.:D Bay City beat a Thurman Thomas led Willowridge team 42-0 in the quarterfinals. Here's these two teams' playoff scores.

Bay City 33, Huntsville 9
Bay City 20, Georgetown 6
Bay City 42, Fort Bend Willowridge 0
Bay City 49, New Braunfels 6
Bay City 30, Lubbock Estacado 0 (LE had beaten the Carthage team 20-16 in the semis. that was the 4A team referenced above)

Daingerfield 43, Clarksville 0
Daingerfield 22, Robinson 0
Daingerfield 49, Kaufman 0
Daingerfield 51, Gladewater 0
Daingerfield 42, Post 0
Daingerfield 42, Sweeny 0

Big Bird? Please. I hate that guy. Now Cookie Monster is the man, and Grover is way underrated.
Where does the Hooks team that Billy Sims played for rank on the list? My neighbor says that is best team he saw/played against. I was playing in Pennsylvania at that time, so I have no idea!

[Shamu85]

92 Carroll > 83 Daingerfield - ;)

Yup & yup.

No how, no way. Never never ever ever get me to agree to that. NOBODY played defense like Daingerfield. And they did not have very many, if any, people playing both sides of the ball either. One of their guys was like 6'7" and was doing back flips on the field after the state championship game.

[goodessa]

It's pretty simple for TGO...

1. '85 Yates ranks #2 in TGO's Top 25 (roc), All-Time.

2. '88 Carter ranks just outside of #25 in TGO's Top 25 (roc), All-Time.
is dangerfield no .1

[goodessa]

Carter or Yates? LOL. I can't believe you are even comparing the two of them. You might make the argument that Carter was in the top 10, but that's about all.

Yates. No contest.your saying if yates had played carter it would be no contest.because you could also make the argument that the level of competiton was way better for carter even the permian team from 85 in my opinion wasnt better than the one from 88.

[badger95]

I'd throw 2003 North Shore in that argument. That's the best team I've ever seen.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

is dangerfield no .1

No..

[Shamu85]

No..

Ok, I'll bite. Who is your #1 then?

[SLC93]

No how, no way. Never never ever ever get me to agree to that. NOBODY played defense like Daingerfield. And they did not have very many, if any, people playing both sides of the ball either. One of their guys was like 6'7" and was doing back flips on the field after the state championship game.

Best offense 3A ever saw was 92 Carroll. Best defense was 83 Daingerfield. I'd bet the house our defense was stronger than your offense and that would be were the game was won.

[onechase]

I would have to say Yates hands down. I was at the game in 85 as a band member of Yates :D Prior to the game, a lot of people thought that Permian would kick our :Censor: so they really didnt have any respect for us, but of course we showed them! ;)