100+ Wins in 10 Years, 200+ in 20 Years

[PowerPack'd]

I compiled a list of the teams that have at least 100 wins in the last 10 years. This includes this year and some teams are still adding to their total. Please let me know if I have left any teams off.

Very impressive programs. Congratulations to these teams and their coaches.

.....Team.............1 Year...5 Year......10 Year......20 year.....District
Southlake Carroll*..12-0...... 69-6.......106-28-1....234-41-1......5
Lufkin*.................12-0......62-7.......103-24.......161-69-6.....14
Austin Westlake......9-1......50-13......112-20.......215-43-3.....16
Katy*..................11-0......57-11......124-18.......213-47-0.....19
North Shore..........11-1.......60-4.......103-21.......141-84-2.....23
Converse Judson*...8-4.......50-13......100-27.......224-41-4.....26
Smithson Valley*...11-1.......62-9.......113-24.......137-88-1.....26
* Denotes still alive in the playoffs.

Sorry for the formatting.


Source: 5Atexasfootball.com and texasfootballratings.com

[drgnbkr]

That took some work...thanks! Some good programs there...a lot of people are still just finding out about Carroll, but this shows they have been the top program in the state for 20 years...

[dragonfootballfan]

Sorry for the formatting.

I will try and fix it a little. I am not good at html, but I might be able to use a trick.

I compiled a list of the teams that have at least 100 wins in the last 10 years. This includes this year and some teams are still adding to their total. Please let me know if I have left any teams off.

Very impressive programs. Congratulations to these teams and their coaches.

.....Team.............1 Year.....5 Year....10 Year........20 year....District
Southlake Carroll*..12-0.......69-6......106-28-1.....234-41-1.....5
Lufkin*.................12-0.......62-7......103-24.......161-69-6.....14
Austin Westlake......9-1.......50-13.....112-20........215-43-3....16
Katy*...................11-0......57-11.....124-18........213-47-0....19
North Shore...........11-1......60-4.......103-21.......141-84-2.....23
Converse Judson*...8-4.......50-13......100-27.......224-41-4.....26
Smithson Valley*....11-1......62-9.......113-24.......137-88-1.....26
* Denotes still alive in the playoffs.

Source: 5Atexasfootball.com and texasfootballratings.com

[PowerPack'd]

I will try and fix it a little. I am not good at html, but I might be able to use a trick.
Any help is appreciated. I am just trying to get the quality programs the recognition they deserve.

I remember someone (I think it was lonny) making some comments at the first of the season about the "100 win" mark being a sign of a quality program. I am proud of Lufkin accomplishing that and I know the other programs are proud too.

[Redneckn]

Only school I have any stats for: Evangel.

Year
1***********5*************10
9-3*********56-11**********126-14

Points:
316-161******2101-787********5306-1751


In 10 years, 2 titles in 1A, 3 in 3A, and 1 in 5A.
Also in that time span, a 60-0 record.


I realize that most of you could care less, but it is still some pretty awesome stats..

[PowerPack'd]

Only school I have any stats for: Evangel.

Year
1***********5*************10
9-3*********56-11**********126-14

Points:
316-161******2101-787********5306-1751


In 10 years, 2 titles in 1A, 3 in 3A, and 1 in 5A.
Also in that time span, a 60-0 record.


I realize that most of you could care less, but it is still some pretty awesome stats..
Evangel has been very impressive as well. They are always tough, although it seems like Longview has their number the last few years. I know the two times Lufkin played them we couldn't beat them.

I was not looking out of state, but thanks for bringing it up.

[Redneckn]

Evangel has been very impressive as well. They are always tough, although it seems like Longview has their number the last few years. I know the two times Lufkin played them we couldn't beat them.

I was not looking out of state, but thanks for bringing it up.



I wish ECA could get it back together and play LP again. Playing Longview has gotten old. They piss and moan when ECA beat them and they piss and moan still when they beat ECA. Even in losing you cant win...


I did find the Texas stats interesting in that the bulk of the teams with 100+ are still in the hunt this year.
It sure enough says something that I heard of 4 of 6 before I ever got to Texas and ECA had only played Lufkin. So 3 of those I heard of from national media.

[lonny23]

Any help is appreciated. I am just trying to get the quality programs the recognition they deserve.

I remember someone (I think it was lonny) making some comments at the first of the season about the "100 win" mark being a sign of a quality program. I am proud of Lufkin accomplishing that and I know the other programs are proud too.
Yes, I said 100 wins in the last 10 years is a great feat and I listed 6 teams as doing it between 1995 and 2004. They were:

Westlake
Katy
Judson
SV
SLC
GPNS

[lonny23]

J.T. Curtis is 426-46-6 all-time as coach of John Curtis in River Ridge, LA. He has 19 state titles and has been runner-up 6 other times. LHSAA made them drop back down from 4A to 2A in a move like the Evangel move. Check out these records.

http://eteamz.active.com/JCFootball/news/index.cfm?cat=136339

[kttigersrock]

Yes, I said 100 wins in the last 10 years is a great feat and I listed 6 teams as doing it between 1995 and 2004. They were:

Westlake
Katy
Judson
SV
SLC
GPNS

100 wins is a great feat, and it is hard to argue these programs are the cream of the crop in Texas. Just for discussion purposes, though, how many of the wins were in 5a? I think Judson and Katy have been 5a for 20+ years. SLC and SV 5a since 2002. Not sure about Westlake, NS or Lufkin. Not that it matters, just curious.

[lonny23]

I compiled a list of the teams that have at least 100 wins in the last 10 years. This includes this year and some teams are still adding to their total. Please let me know if I have left any teams off.

Very impressive programs. Congratulations to these teams and their coaches.

.....Team.............1 Year...5 Year......10 Year......20 year.....District
Southlake Carroll*..12-0...... 69-6.......106-28-1....234-41-1......5
Lufkin*.................12-0......62-7.......103-24.......161-69-6.....14
Austin Westlake......9-1......50-13......112-20.......215-43-3.....16
Katy*..................11-0......57-11......124-18.......213-47-0.....19
North Shore..........11-1.......60-4.......103-21.......141-84-2.....23
Converse Judson*...8-4.......50-13......100-27.......224-41-4.....26
Smithson Valley*...11-1.......62-9.......113-24.......137-88-1.....26
* Denotes still alive in the playoffs.

Sorry for the formatting.


Source: 5Atexasfootball.com and texasfootballratings.com
I know SLC and Judson are legit for the 20 year records, but have Katy and Westlake really been that good for the last 20 years? That doesn't sound right.

[kttigersrock]

J.T. Curtis is 426-46-6 all-time as coach of John Curtis in River Ridge, LA. He has 19 state titles and has been runner-up 6 other times. LHSAA made them drop back down from 4A to 2A in a move like the Evangel move. Check out these records.

http://eteamz.active.com/JCFootball/news/index.cfm?cat=136339

OMG!!! :eek:

[gtownowlfootball06]

In that time span Garland has 97.

[PowerPack'd]

I know SLC and Judson are legit for the 20 year records, but have Katy and Westlake really been that good for the last 20 years? That doesn't sound right.

I am relying on my source for the info. Check it out for yourself. All I did was add this year's record to it. The time span I covered was 1996-2005.

http://www.texasfootballratings.com/PastYearsRecords.html

[rancher52]

I compiled a list of the teams that have at least 100 wins in the last 10 years. This includes this year and some teams are still adding to their total. Please let me know if I have left any teams off.

Very impressive programs. Congratulations to these teams and their coaches.

.....Team.............1 Year...5 Year......10 Year......20 year.....District
Southlake Carroll*..12-0...... 69-6.......106-28-1....234-41-1......5
Lufkin*.................12-0......62-7.......103-24.......161-69-6.....14
Austin Westlake......9-1......50-13......112-20.......215-43-3.....16
Katy*..................11-0......57-11......124-18.......213-47-0.....19
North Shore..........11-1.......60-4.......103-21.......141-84-2.....23
Converse Judson*...8-4.......50-13......100-27.......224-41-4.....26
Smithson Valley*...11-1.......62-9.......113-24.......137-88-1.....26
* Denotes still alive in the playoffs.

Sorry for the formatting.


Source: 5Atexasfootball.com and texasfootballratings.com
Is it possible you are missing a win for Southlake .... I show 70 wins in the last 5 years, 107 in 10 and 235 in 20 (so the missing win has to be in the first 5 years.) I also show 40 losses in 20 years -- the difference is somewhere in the 10 years from 86-95.

[PowerPack'd]

Is it possible you are missing a win for Southlake .... I show 70 wins in the last 5 years, 107 in 10 and 235 in 20 (so the missing win has to be in the first 5 years.) I also show 40 losses in 20 years -- the difference is somewhere in the 10 years from 86-95.
texasfootballratings.com has SLC at 222-41-1 for the last 19 years through 2004. I am not saying there aren't any mistakes. Here is the link.

http://www.texasfootballratings.com/PastYearsRecords.html

[PowerPack'd]

100 wins is a great feat, and it is hard to argue these programs are the cream of the crop in Texas. Just for discussion purposes, though, how many of the wins were in 5a? I think Judson and Katy have been 5a for 20+ years. SLC and SV 5a since 2002. Not sure about Westlake, NS or Lufkin. Not that it matters, just curious.
I am trying to find out when Lufkin made the move to 5A. I don't know right off the top of my head. I know they have been 5A since 1994 because I have lived in Lufkin since then, but I don't know the exact year they made the jump.

[lonny23]

I am trying to find out when Lufkin made the move to 5A. I don't know right off the top of my head. I know they have been 5A since 1994 because I have lived in Lufkin since then, but I don't know the exact year they made the jump.
LUfkin has been in 5A since 1980 when they formed 5A.

[AZTiger]

I know SLC and Judson are legit for the 20 year records, but have Katy and Westlake really been that good for the last 20 years? That doesn't sound right.


there you go again. yes Katy has been that good, only missing the playoffs once in the last 20 years (1990 the team was 5-5). we didn't start making big playoff pushes until 1994, we usually bowed out in round 2 before then, save 1992 when we lost in round 3. ever since 1997 however, our teams have had deep playoff runs.

[lonny23]

there you go again. yes Katy has been that good, only missing the playoffs once in the last 20 years (1990 the team was 5-5). we didn't start making big playoff pushes until 1994, we usually bowed out in round 2 before then, save 1992 when we lost in round 3. ever since 1997 however, our teams have had deep playoff runs.
Hey, I knew you were real good, but I didn't remember 200 win good. I went back to look at the seasons.

[lonny23]

Of course only 1 team has had a winning record all of the last 20 years and they've done it for 29 straight years now! :p

[AZTiger]

Hey, I knew you were real good, but I didn't remember 200 win good. I went back to look at the seasons.

yep, the win over Carroll was Johnston's 200th win

[pack0808]

I wish ECA could get it back together and play LP again. Playing Longview has gotten old. They piss and moan when ECA beat them and they piss and moan still when they beat ECA. Even in losing you cant win...


I did find the Texas stats interesting in that the bulk of the teams with 100+ are still in the hunt this year.
It sure enough says something that I heard of 4 of 6 before I ever got to Texas and ECA had only played Lufkin. So 3 of those I heard of from national media.


Redneck is still in denial!! Evangel is a joke to 5a Texas teams now. Longview just abused them once again this year!! Same story for 4 years straight!! :eek: (The same Longview team Lufkin beat 9 times in a row in that same time span) They are nothing but a has been now, and not to mention 1a Lousiana team. They are done as long as they stay in 1a and you know it. This is not the Booty era anymore this the reality era. I like you redneck and i know you love your boys but you need to join us in realityville!!

[Redneckn]

Redneck is still in denial!! Evangel is a joke to 5a Texas teams now. Longview just abused them once again this year!! Same story for 4 years straight!! :eek: (The same Longview team Lufkin beat 9 times in a row in that same time span) They are nothing but a has been now, and not to mention 1a Lousiana team. They are done as long as they stay in 1a and you know it. This is not the Booty era anymore this the reality era. I like you redneck and i know you love your boys but you need to join us in realityville!!


It's really a shame there isn't a polite way of giving somebody the finger.

They have always been a 1A team. With the exception of the few years they had enough people to be a 2A team. Yet they still managed to win against 5A teams. From Texas.
Booty era? What? There was no "Booty era". Yes, Booty was a good QB, but he was not (neither josh nor johndavid) what made the team. Coach Booty did not make the team either. He never controlled the team. My opinion is that is part of why he gone now.
ECA got to be bad to the bone playing in 1A. This really isn't anything new except for the fact that they were forced to play down. How long do you really think that haters of La can keep them there? There are way more little schools in La that do not want them in 1A. Trust me, this 1A has but 1 more season. And it wont kill them. Yes, they are not so hot currently. They got caught with their pants down when JDB just up and left.
ECA didn't really get good and going until Dunn got there. Booty was just another coach.

Reality is that there is a whole lotta hatin' coming from everywhere. It really is nothing new. When Longview starts in, it makes them look whiney. When LP starts in, it makes them look like sore losers.
Why wouldn't LP play them again? They didn't want to lose. You can pretty it up however you'd like, but facts are facts. When people get beat by a little 1A school, they do not want to play them again. PERIOD.

I have a lot of respect for Lufkin, but really, lets see some numbers.
5306-1751 (points) in 10 years is weak I guess? 60-0 on the field is weak?
You would really have to be out of your gourd to not see that ECA has dominated and will get back up. This is 1 bad year. If this 1A thing was going to stick and kill them, they would have just bowed out gracefully and said "you don't want us playing, we won't play". Which would have been easy to do.


I didn't post the numbers to get some stupid arguement started. Again. I posted the numbers because the fact remains that they are sizable numbers and you can't agrue facts.
Count ECA out if you like, but know that they are still gonna be playing ball and winning. Love 'em or hate 'em, but LP still hasn't beat 'em.

[pack0808]

It's really a shame there isn't a polite way of giving somebody the finger.

They have always been a 1A team. With the exception of the few years they had enough people to be a 2A team. Yet they still managed to win against 5A teams. From Texas.
Booty era? What? There was no "Booty era". Yes, Booty was a good QB, but he was not (neither josh nor johndavid) what made the team. Coach Booty did not make the team either. He never controlled the team. My opinion is that is part of why he gone now.
ECA got to be bad to the bone playing in 1A. This really isn't anything new except for the fact that they were forced to play down. How long do you really think that haters of La can keep them there? There are way more little schools in La that do not want them in 1A. Trust me, this 1A has but 1 more season. And it wont kill them. Yes, they are not so hot currently. They got caught with their pants down when JDB just up and left.
ECA didn't really get good and going until Dunn got there. Booty was just another coach.

Reality is that there is a whole lotta hatin' coming from everywhere. It really is nothing new. When Longview starts in, it makes them look whiney. When LP starts in, it makes them look like sore losers.
Why wouldn't LP play them again? They didn't want to lose. You can pretty it up however you'd like, but facts are facts. When people get beat by a little 1A school, they do not want to play them again. PERIOD.

I have a lot of respect for Lufkin, but really, lets see some numbers.
5306-1751 (points) in 10 years is weak I guess? 60-0 on the field is weak?
You would really have to be out of your gourd to not see that ECA has dominated and will get back up. This is 1 bad year. If this 1A thing was going to stick and kill them, they would have just bowed out gracefully and said "you don't want us playing, we won't play". Which would have been easy to do.


I didn't post the numbers to get some stupid arguement started. Again. I posted the numbers because the fact remains that they are sizable numbers and you can't agrue facts.
Count ECA out if you like, but know that they are still gonna be playing ball and winning. Love 'em or hate 'em, but LP still hasn't beat 'em.


Yawn Yawn and Yawn once again!! I have watched a "Longview team", Lufkin has severely owned in recent history, beat Evangel over and over, and it just keeps getting more and more embarrassing for Evangel each year. I mean Evangel would not have even scored this year if it was not for the kickoff returns by the transfer!! LOL Just a joke no matter how you look at it. No private school is a real 1a school!! You know that and everybody on this earth knows that. Especially if they are known for their football. Evangel is officially dead in the national scene as long as Lousiana keeps them in 1a.

[Bootsdaddy]

Yawn Yawn and Yawn once again!! I have watched a "Longview team", Lufkin has severely owned in recent history, beat Evangel over and over, and it just keeps getting more and more embarrassing for Evangel each year. I mean Evangel would not have even scored this year if it was not for the kickoff returns by the transfer!! LOL Just a joke no matter how you look at it. No private school is a real 1a school!! You know that and everybody on this earth knows that. Especially if they are known for their football. Evangel is officially dead in the national scene as long as Lousiana keeps them in 1a.

In 2001 ECA led Lufkin by 9 wih the ball at Abe Martin with about 2 minutes to play and went to the 2 minute drill. They passed on every down scoring on a TD pass with seconds to play to make the final 33-17. Maybe they were concerned about their national ranking or wanted to look good for their recruits? First and only time Ive ever booed at a HS game. Coach Outlaw said LP would never play them again. He said it was like playing a JUCO team (his words) Probably because ECA recruits and hold their junior high kids back a year so most of the seniors are 19 year olds (my words)

[lonny23]

In 2001 ECA led Lufkin by 9 wih the ball at Abe Martin with about 2 minutes to play and went to the 2 minute drill. They passed on every down scoring on a TD pass with seconds to play to make the final 33-17. Maybe they were concerned about their national ranking or wanted to look good for their recruits? First and only time Ive ever booed at a HS game. Coach Outlaw said LP would never play them again. He said it was like playing a JUCO team (his words) Probably because ECA recruits and hold their junior high kids back a year so most of the seniors are 19 year olds (my words)
I say Outlaw should play them now and kick them while they're down! :p

I won't complain about the recruiting, but holding kids back is a disgrace to the Assemblies of God. It's pure garbage that an A/G school does that to try to win. You have to maintain high values and Evangel doesn't do that.

[pack0808]

I say Outlaw should play them now and kick them while they're down! :p

I won't complain about the recruiting, but holding kids back is a disgrace to the Assemblies of God. It's pure garbage that an A/G school does that to try to win. You have to maintain high values and Evangel doesn't do that.


I think our ET brother's got revenge on Evangel plenty for Lufkin considering the Lobos have beaten them 4 times in a row starting in 2002 when Evangel was still very very good. That is good enough for me!! ;) We all know what the result would have been if Lufkin played Evangel this year. They are down in a big way!!4a Texarkana even crushed them!!

[bubbacoach]

100 wins is a great feat, and it is hard to argue these programs are the cream of the crop in Texas. Just for discussion purposes, though, how many of the wins were in 5a? I think Judson and Katy have been 5a for 20+ years. SLC and SV 5a since 2002. Not sure about Westlake, NS or Lufkin. Not that it matters, just curious.
I believe every win on the Judson record is against 5A. They will not schedule a 4A team.

[dragonsdaddy]

slc was 47-1 before this year, and 59-1 now. the 01 team finished 10-5, so that would be 69-6 in the 5 year time frame.

[rancher52]

slc was 47-1 before this year, and 59-1 now. the 01 team finished 10-5, so that would be 69-6 in the 5 year time frame.
You are correct, I misspoke when I said, "I show 70 wins in the last 5 years, 107 in 10 and 235 in 20 (so the missing win has to be in the first 5 years.) I also show 40 losses in 20 years -- the difference is somewhere in the 10 years from 86-95". The difference in wins is in the next five years when you compare to the records on site http://www.texasfootballratings.com...arsRecords.html

1998 shows 12-2 and I have SLC as 13-2 (is that wrong). Also in 1989 the site shows SLC 12-2 and they had to have been 12-1 because they were in the 72 game regular season winning streak. In total for 20 years I had them 235-40-1 (not 234-41-1 as the other website shows).

[Redneckn]

Pack0808. The transfer only scored 1 return. This is the only year Lv has beat ECA senseless. No matter Lv has done with ECA, the fact remains that LP has not beat them.


Lonny: They quit "holding" kids back several years ago when the LHSAA said nobody could do it anymore. Why was it wrong to do it when every other school was doing it? It was not just privates doing it. Ask around the Monroe areas.
I was told that you were f.o.s. when I first started posting here. I decided the first time someobody here told me that that I was going to form my own opinion of you. I begin to see clearly that you are f.o.s. when you spew at the mouth and don't really know what you're talking about. I forget that you seem to have some ties in S. La. and in the Monroe areas. Teams from S.La. haven't been able to beat ECA, neither have the teams from the Monroe area. It becomes clear why you really don't like ECA.

Bootsdaddy. Last time I checked, the object of football is to score points. You'll notice I don't whine about Lv putting a 52-14 arse kicking on us.

More than anything else, I find it amusing that when ECA has a down year there's all this crap...Where we you when they were dominating? LP was hiding in the piney woods of ET. If it made LP so angry that ECA scored again in a 2min drill, perhaps they should have played again. To avenge themselves. Wait, LP would have lost again, now we know why that 3rd game never happened.


As stated before, I'm not trying to argue about ECA. I'm not trying to validate them. They have validated themselves. They have had a bad year. It happens. I'm not trying to convert Texas people to ECA fans. All I was doing was posting some numbers that are impressive.
I'd really rather just move on.

[pack0808]

[QUOTE=Redneckn]Pack0808. The transfer only scored 1 return. This is the only year Lv has beat ECA senseless. No matter Lv has done with ECA, the fact remains that LP has not beat them.


Lonny: They quit "holding" kids back several years ago when the LHSAA said nobody could do it anymore. Why was it wrong to do it when every other school was doing it? It was not just privates doing it. Ask around the Monroe areas.
I was told that you were f.o.s. when I first started posting here. I decided the first time someobody here told me that that I was going to form my own opinion of you. I begin to see clearly that you are f.o.s. when you spew at the mouth and don't really know what you're talking about. I forget that you seem to have some ties in S. La. and in the Monroe areas. Teams from S.La. haven't been able to beat ECA, neither have the teams from the Monroe area. It becomes clear why you really don't like ECA.
Bootsdaddy. Last time I checked, the object of football is to score points. You'll notice I don't whine about Lv putting a 52-14 arse kicking on us.

More than anything else, I find it amusing that when ECA has a down year there's all this crap...Where we you when they were dominating? LP was hiding in the piney woods of ET. If it made LP so angry that ECA scored again in a 2min drill, perhaps they should have played again. To avenge themselves. Wait, LP would have lost again, now we know why that 3rd game never happened.


As stated before, I'm not trying to argue about ECA. I'm not trying to validate them. They have validated themselves. They have had a bad year. It happens. I'm not trying to convert Texas people to ECA fans. All I was doing was posting some numbers that are impressive.



Redneck, Longview beat them pretty bad in 2003 correct?? I know Evangel had a lead in the 1st half but Longview ended up beating them pretty badly. You are right Lufkin has not beaten them but what our ET brother's Longview has done to them recently ( 4 in a row) is more then good enough for me personally. I believe in playing all in state games anyway. After Texarkana demolished them this year i am positive Evangel is in Big trouble. I think you will see them off all of Texas schedules ASAP. What is it 6 of the last 7 Texas has won vs Evangel?? and the 1 win was vs 4a Texarkana. I will move on also. ;) Again, that is good enough for me. Fairly obvious!!

[Redneckn]

You're exactly right. ECA is gonna just close down its football programs.
Please feel free to hold your breath waiting on that.

I don't look for any Texas 4 or 5A's to schedule ECA next year either. Which is really sad. The only reason ECA ever looked west was to get some competition. Which they got. ECA will continue to schedule good tough teams. They just may not have any Texas teams to play for a while. I know y'all think its not so, but there are tough teams outside of Texas and ECA has been playing them.

[FreshmanTiger]

yep, the win over Carroll was Johnston's 200th win

All-Time Best 5A State Playoff Records

1. Converse Judson (75-15, 83%)
2. Odessa Permian (54-10, 84%)
3. Katy (48-13, 79%)
4. Midland Lee (44-16, 75%)
5. Plano (43-14, 75%)

We do ok.

[Phoenixrising05]

All-Time Best 5A State Playoff Records

1. Converse Judson (75-15, 83%)
2. Odessa Permian (54-10, 84%)
3. Katy (48-13, 79%)
4. Midland Lee (44-16, 75%)
5. Plano (43-14, 75%)

We do ok.

Actually "All-Time Best 5A State Playoff Records" would have to include SLC at

19-1, 95%

[lonny23]

Pack0808. The transfer only scored 1 return. This is the only year Lv has beat ECA senseless. No matter Lv has done with ECA, the fact remains that LP has not beat them.


Lonny: They quit "holding" kids back several years ago when the LHSAA said nobody could do it anymore. Why was it wrong to do it when every other school was doing it? It was not just privates doing it. Ask around the Monroe areas.
I was told that you were f.o.s. when I first started posting here. I decided the first time someobody here told me that that I was going to form my own opinion of you. I begin to see clearly that you are f.o.s. when you spew at the mouth and don't really know what you're talking about. I forget that you seem to have some ties in S. La. and in the Monroe areas. Teams from S.La. haven't been able to beat ECA, neither have the teams from the Monroe area. It becomes clear why you really don't like ECA.

Bootsdaddy. Last time I checked, the object of football is to score points. You'll notice I don't whine about Lv putting a 52-14 arse kicking on us.

More than anything else, I find it amusing that when ECA has a down year there's all this crap...Where we you when they were dominating? LP was hiding in the piney woods of ET. If it made LP so angry that ECA scored again in a 2min drill, perhaps they should have played again. To avenge themselves. Wait, LP would have lost again, now we know why that 3rd game never happened.


As stated before, I'm not trying to argue about ECA. I'm not trying to validate them. They have validated themselves. They have had a bad year. It happens. I'm not trying to convert Texas people to ECA fans. All I was doing was posting some numbers that are impressive.
I'd really rather just move on.
That's fine that they stopped holding kids back. It's not right even if everybody else does it. Yes, my relatives live in West Monroe. Guess what, I hate the Rebels with a passion! :mad: I have always been a fan of John Curtis and I'd chastise them if they held kids back, too. I just haven't lived in the area in 20 years.

If you were here last year and previous years, you'd know we talked about Evangel then, too. We said good and bad. No, we don't always know everything about Evangel, but we do find some things out. We said we didn't like what they did to Booty's dad and we all like to see Evangel lose.

I don't hate any team for being good. I do dislike teams and players for their actions, though. I go to Assemblies of God churches and should be a HUGE fan of Evangel, but I'm not. As an outsider, I don't think they run a school and football program that's pleasing to God. I'm fair, though. If you were to tell me about a bunch of skeletons in John Curtis' closet, I might change my view of them.

[bullrock]

Why not schedule the Jesuits. Ya'll need to stick together. They're equivalent to a 1A team (?) and they made it 2 rounds deep against 5A competition. Now, take a 1A public and see how many games they can win in 12 trys. I'll tell how many. Maybe 2. That ought to tell you something right there. It's not an even playing field. And you are singing to the chior when you talk about poor old us. we can't get anyone to play us. Most of the publics have no problem scheduling non-district games and they all get the same amount of district games. What you have created is your problem, not ours. I wouldn't give two rotten duck eggs to watch a private play with the publics. And, if the team I follow ever has to face one, they won't get my money. :mad:

[pack0808]

You're exactly right. ECA is gonna just close down its football programs.
Please feel free to hold your breath waiting on that.

I don't look for any Texas 4 or 5A's to schedule ECA next year either. Which is really sad. The only reason ECA ever looked west was to get some competition. Which they got. ECA will continue to schedule good tough teams. They just may not have any Texas teams to play for a while. I know y'all think its not so, but there are tough teams outside of Texas and ECA has been playing them.


I did not say they are going to have to close their program i simply said they will not be a national power anymore unless something changes.

[lonny23]

Why not schedule the Jesuits. Ya'll need to stick together. They're equivalent to a 1A team (?) and they made it 2 rounds deep against 5A competition. Now, take a 1A public and see how many games they can win in 12 trys. I'll tell how many. Maybe 2. That ought to tell you something right there. It's not an even playing field. And you are singing to the chior when you talk about poor old us. we can't get anyone to play us. Most of the publics have no problem scheduling non-district games and they all get the same amount of district games. What you have created is your problem, not ours. I wouldn't give two rotten duck eggs to watch a private play with the publics. And, if the team I follow ever has to face one, they won't get my money. :mad:
Private schools flaunting how much they win is like rich people flaunting their cars and houses. You have money and will naturally have all that other stuff. There's nothing to brag about.

[Redneckn]

We said we didn't like what they did to Booty's dad and we all like to see Evangel lose.



Honestly, do you even know what went down with Booty? There seems to be a lot of confusion about that situation. More or less, here is what happened. Booty took some paid time off from his pastor work at 1stA/G. During this time he started having "church" in his home. While still getting paid. This came up, he and Denny parted ways. Fired, left, whatever.. He is no longer coaching at ECA. His son left the team and went to USC.
Booty goes across town to another private. Gets them a football program going and then proceeds to draw off a few ECA coaches. All of that is fine. It's the trash talking that got the whole thing to looking pretty ugly. And it's just funny because Booty and crew are the only ones talking in trash. The ECA camp is just kinda keeping their holes shut about it. I'm sure there are fans that are jaw about it though, but those are homers and they dont know what's going on.

As for the holding kids back thing. To me, if 1 school was doing it, it was not a good idea, but when most schools were doing it, it was fine. No schools are doing it now and everybody is happy.

[Redneckn]

Why not schedule the Jesuits. Ya'll need to stick together. They're equivalent to a 1A team (?) and they made it 2 rounds deep against 5A competition. Now, take a 1A public and see how many games they can win in 12 trys. I'll tell how many. Maybe 2. That ought to tell you something right there. It's not an even playing field. And you are singing to the chior when you talk about poor old us. we can't get anyone to play us. Most of the publics have no problem scheduling non-district games and they all get the same amount of district games. What you have created is your problem, not ours. I wouldn't give two rotten duck eggs to watch a private play with the publics. And, if the team I follow ever has to face one, they won't get my money. :mad:


Nobody said it was your problem. You're right, it isn't a level playing field. In La, the privates usually have the money for sports that most Texas 3-4A's have. ECA played up to 5A so help make it level. Then they dominated there.
If you have problems getting teams to play y'all, then yes, you must be good.
Why not play a private school if you cant get teams to play?
You are just a private hater. Which is fine. Nobody is saying you have to or even need to like 'em.


Pack0808: reading back, i see your point and I missed it. That was my bad.
And you are correct about the getting out of 1A thing. Not to worry, it is being dealt with. Again, 1 more year of the 1A crap and things will be righted.
Again, my bad.

[lonny23]

Honestly, do you even know what went down with Booty? There seems to be a lot of confusion about that situation. More or less, here is what happened. Booty took some paid time off from his pastor work at 1stA/G. During this time he started having "church" in his home. While still getting paid. This came up, he and Denny parted ways. Fired, left, whatever.. He is no longer coaching at ECA. His son left the team and went to USC.
Booty goes across town to another private. Gets them a football program going and then proceeds to draw off a few ECA coaches. All of that is fine. It's the trash talking that got the whole thing to looking pretty ugly. And it's just funny because Booty and crew are the only ones talking in trash. The ECA camp is just kinda keeping their holes shut about it. I'm sure there are fans that are jaw about it though, but those are homers and they dont know what's going on.

As for the holding kids back thing. To me, if 1 school was doing it, it was not a good idea, but when most schools were doing it, it was fine. No schools are doing it now and everybody is happy.
Thanks,

Please keep in mind that our info is limited and we need people like you around to shed more light on the situation. I never did say a bad word about Evangel until after the Booty stuff came to light. Me and my family have never had any problems with Denny Duron. I thought they canned Booty so Duron's son could play QB.

I never knew about the church part. That's a big no-no. You can't steal people from other churches, but so many people do that when they leave and try to get from the old congregation. It's almost always the associate pastor that wants to get his own church, but they get it all wrong. If God is behind your ministry, He will bring the people to you without recruiting. I heard they wanted to become another Evangel over there.

I bet and hope Evangel continues to be more successful than the new school that Booty is at.

Redneckn, take me off the Evangel hater's list! :D

[Redneckn]

Lonny.


*******Extends shaking hand*********
Sorry dude. I do completely forget that a lot of people over really don't know what goes on over there.. And all some of y'all have to go on it hearsay.. And as I stated, the only ones really talking about it are the Booty/Calvary camp.

But no, D-Rod Duron was a WR and did not want to QB. I think he only did because they had nobody else to do it. He was the back-up QB. He's a baseball player at some college now... No football at all.. Kind of like JohnDavid..hahaha...

You are off my "hater" list..

I think Calvary Baptist will be a pretty good team in time. This was their first year to seriously field a team. They made it to the first round of the playoffs and got hammered like 54-20 or something from a team in N.O. But I do have a lot of hope for them. Shreveport needs another good private...

[lonny23]

Lonny.


*******Extends shaking hand*********
Sorry dude. I do completely forget that a lot of people over really don't know what goes on over there.. And all some of y'all have to go on it hearsay.. And as I stated, the only ones really talking about it are the Booty/Calvary camp.

But no, D-Rod Duron was a WR and did not want to QB. I think he only did because they had nobody else to do it. He was the back-up QB. He's a baseball player at some college now... No football at all.. Kind of like JohnDavid..hahaha...

You are off my "hater" list..

I think Calvary Baptist will be a pretty good team in time. This was their first year to seriously field a team. They made it to the first round of the playoffs and got hammered like 54-20 or something from a team in N.O. But I do have a lot of hope for them. Shreveport needs another good private...
We get some of our info from that message board on the Shreveport Times, but I know they have some Evangel haters on there.

[bullrock]

redneck,
You're incorrect. I do not hate privates. I just don't think they belong with the publics. You can call it what you want, but it wasn't us who separated from the masses.
You have to admit, when your school (ECA) can get players from different states, who just happen to be super athletes, on scholarship, it can't be fair to the publics. We can't get players from across town legally. If the publics could recruit, then I wouldn't have a problem at all playing with them. Look at your own state. Who dominates the polls and why? I just don't think that is something we need in Texas. That is what has made our state different from the rest. We play in our own back yards.

[Redneckn]

redneck,
You're incorrect. I do not hate privates. I just don't think they belong with the publics. You can call it what you want, but it wasn't us who separated from the masses.
You have to admit, when your school (ECA) can get players from different states, who just happen to be super athletes, on scholarship, it can't be fair to the publics. We can't get players from across town legally. If the publics could recruit, then I wouldn't have a problem at all playing with them. Look at your own state. Who dominates the polls and why? I just don't think that is something we need in Texas. That is what has made our state different from the rest. We play in our own back yards.


Something I'd like to make sure we're clear on.. ECA does not bus kids in from Tx or anywhere else.. If the family moves to Shreveport area then so be it. Also, a kid can't just transfer over and start playing. You do realize that right? They have to sit out a year before they are allowed to play. Practice with them perhaps, but not play. That is with the exception of the hurricane bebacle. And the scholorship thing. That is something else that is blown way out of proportion. Yes, there are some kids that come there for "free" but not as many as people would have you think. And they don't all play sports. There are several that just go there.. Don't do anything other than go to school and be a kid.
Something I forgot to mention, if a kid lives in the "attendance zone" i.e. "Huntiungton" district, they may be able to start playing that year. Not sure on that one.

[bullrock]

Setting out your 7th grade year is nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't there been cases where 8th graders have played on the varsity? And I like your statement. "Several of them just go there". I've read where there are less than 100 kids in the school. Is that also correct? I'm not trying to start a fight, just gathering some facts like Lonny was. You may be able to change my perception of the ECA Machine, but you will never sway my stand on mixing them with privates.

[bullrock]

Setting out your 7th grade year is nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't there been cases where 8th graders have played on the varsity? And I like your statement. "Several of them just go there". I've read where there are less than 100 kids in the school. Is that also correct? I'm not trying to start a fight, just gathering some facts like Lonny was. You may be able to change my perception of the ECA Machine, but you will never sway my stand on mixing them with publics in Texas.

[Redneckn]

Bullrock: Sitting out 7th or 8th? No, not anymore.. There was a thing for a few years they called 8plus. Kids were repeating the 8th grade. Even if they didn't need it. The state determined several years back that they couldnt do that anymore. And as I stated to Lonny, lots and lots of schools were doing it.

I think currently their enrollment is that of a 2A schools. But when the stats were turned in last year or year before, they had like 3-10 shy of a 2A, that is why they are in 1A. I don't know what that number is, it seems like it is 201+ to be 2A.. I do know that moms and pops told me they were less than 10 kids shy of being able to be in 2A.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions when you just don't know. That's the only to really find out. But do know that I am not an authority on ECA. My mom works there in the office though. My sister graduated from there and I went there off on thru high school. They finally kicked me out for good my senior year and I went to another private school 2nd semester.
I will say that ECA does have it share of problems just like any other school. The difference is that there is a lot of hate for ECA around the Shreveport area. So if a kid gets in trouble and that kids goes to ECA, the media will be certain to mention that is where that kid goes to school. If a kid from, say Southwood, gets in trouble, the media will not mention that.

It's just funny to me that nobody really hated ECA until they started playing football. And nobody started really hating them until they started to challenge the local teams and beating the crap out of them.. And then came 5A. That's really when it got to out of control proportions. The reason for this in my own opinion is that not only was ECA beating the crap out of them, but ECA was doing it by beating their offenses and controlling the game with a pass offense. The teams in La were used to run run run and perhaps throw if you were 3rd and long. ECA came out and threw threw threw. And threw again. There were few 3rd and longs because 1st or 2nd usually got another 1st, if you were lucky. If you were unlucky, they scored on you. And I say all, but they have always ran fair. But the run was not as good as the pass. ECA has always had good defenses that were designed to stop the run, because the rest of La was running the ball. When a team passes on them, they have trouble defending it. They are usually big up front and they like to hit.

I support ECA completely because, as I see it, they are making an honest attempt at doing the right things. All the way around. They are trying to teach kids to respect themselves, each other, and above all God.
I know there is a lot of focus on football, but there really is much more than that. My sister graduated from there with about a 4.3 gpa, had all her college paid for 4 years at ULM and then went on to Western Carolina to get he Masters. and in about 6 years out of school, she started her first real job making about 45K a year. She didn't play sports.. She was a cheerleader her junior and senior years. My family does not have money. My moms didnt work there then. I had left a fairly sour taste in ECA mouths.. She is not the only kid to come out of there and go on to a good life.. There are some that dont and those are usually the ones you hear about.

The main of point of all this is that it really bothers me to have all this hating coming from Texas for ECA when I can clearly remember hearing the coaches talk about "going to try to get some Tx teams scheduled, because there is no football like Tx football". ECA has always respected Tx football. And I am aware there have been some cheap shots on the field and some trash being talked off the field. But we are talking about kids and stupid fans. I don't think ECA has ever went into a game with any real football power thinking "we're gonna knock these guys down to size". I think they have always looked at it like "let's see how good we really are". And I think they have carried that attitude into the Texas games each and every time. Yes, there has always been a lot of jawwing, but I feel like that is part of the game.


Anyway, I have written a short novel and hi-jacked a thread all at once.. :o

[Bootsdaddy]

Pack0808. The transfer only scored 1 return. This is the only year Lv has beat ECA senseless. No matter Lv has done with ECA, the fact remains that LP has not beat them.


Lonny: They quit "holding" kids back several years ago when the LHSAA said nobody could do it anymore. Why was it wrong to do it when every other school was doing it? It was not just privates doing it. Ask around the Monroe areas.
I was told that you were f.o.s. when I first started posting here. I decided the first time someobody here told me that that I was going to form my own opinion of you. I begin to see clearly that you are f.o.s. when you spew at the mouth and don't really know what you're talking about. I forget that you seem to have some ties in S. La. and in the Monroe areas. Teams from S.La. haven't been able to beat ECA, neither have the teams from the Monroe area. It becomes clear why you really don't like ECA.

Bootsdaddy. Last time I checked, the object of football is to score points. You'll notice I don't whine about Lv putting a 52-14 arse kicking on us.

More than anything else, I find it amusing that when ECA has a down year there's all this crap...Where we you when they were dominating? LP was hiding in the piney woods of ET. If it made LP so angry that ECA scored again in a 2min drill, perhaps they should have played again. To avenge themselves. Wait, LP would have lost again, now we know why that 3rd game never happened.


As stated before, I'm not trying to argue about ECA. I'm not trying to validate them. They have validated themselves. They have had a bad year. It happens. I'm not trying to convert Texas people to ECA fans. All I was doing was posting some numbers that are impressive.
I'd really rather just move on.

Redneckn:

I dont really have a problem with ECA other than them trying to run the score up in that game vs. LP in Lufkin. I dont know if there was a reason or if there was some bad blood between the teams or what exactly the deal was. That's just something you dont really see too often. As far as playing them again I would be for it if they regained their elite status. If Lufkin lost to them again it really wouldnt be that big of a deal to me. The last 2 regular seasons have been BORING to most Pack fans with the Woodlands game in 2004 the only close game that I can remember. When you dont have a kid playing its hard to get too excited about a game that you know will be over by halftime.

As far as them holding kids back I didnt realize that was common practice in Louisiana at the time.

As far as their recruiting I dont really care about that either. Its common practice in basketball with top stars like LeBron James and T-Mac going to private schools that were more like basketball factories.

[lonny23]

Bullrock: Sitting out 7th or 8th? No, not anymore.. There was a thing for a few years they called 8plus. Kids were repeating the 8th grade. Even if they didn't need it. The state determined several years back that they couldnt do that anymore. And as I stated to Lonny, lots and lots of schools were doing it.

I think currently their enrollment is that of a 2A schools. But when the stats were turned in last year or year before, they had like 3-10 shy of a 2A, that is why they are in 1A. I don't know what that number is, it seems like it is 201+ to be 2A.. I do know that moms and pops told me they were less than 10 kids shy of being able to be in 2A.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions when you just don't know. That's the only to really find out. But do know that I am not an authority on ECA. My mom works there in the office though. My sister graduated from there and I went there off on thru high school. They finally kicked me out for good my senior year and I went to another private school 2nd semester.
I will say that ECA does have it share of problems just like any other school. The difference is that there is a lot of hate for ECA around the Shreveport area. So if a kid gets in trouble and that kids goes to ECA, the media will be certain to mention that is where that kid goes to school. If a kid from, say Southwood, gets in trouble, the media will not mention that.

It's just funny to me that nobody really hated ECA until they started playing football. And nobody started really hating them until they started to challenge the local teams and beating the crap out of them.. And then came 5A. That's really when it got to out of control proportions. The reason for this in my own opinion is that not only was ECA beating the crap out of them, but ECA was doing it by beating their offenses and controlling the game with a pass offense. The teams in La were used to run run run and perhaps throw if you were 3rd and long. ECA came out and threw threw threw. And threw again. There were few 3rd and longs because 1st or 2nd usually got another 1st, if you were lucky. If you were unlucky, they scored on you. And I say all, but they have always ran fair. But the run was not as good as the pass. ECA has always had good defenses that were designed to stop the run, because the rest of La was running the ball. When a team passes on them, they have trouble defending it. They are usually big up front and they like to hit.

I support ECA completely because, as I see it, they are making an honest attempt at doing the right things. All the way around. They are trying to teach kids to respect themselves, each other, and above all God.
I know there is a lot of focus on football, but there really is much more than that. My sister graduated from there with about a 4.3 gpa, had all her college paid for 4 years at ULM and then went on to Western Carolina to get he Masters. and in about 6 years out of school, she started her first real job making about 45K a year. She didn't play sports.. She was a cheerleader her junior and senior years. My family does not have money. My moms didnt work there then. I had left a fairly sour taste in ECA mouths.. She is not the only kid to come out of there and go on to a good life.. There are some that dont and those are usually the ones you hear about.

The main of point of all this is that it really bothers me to have all this hating coming from Texas for ECA when I can clearly remember hearing the coaches talk about "going to try to get some Tx teams scheduled, because there is no football like Tx football". ECA has always respected Tx football. And I am aware there have been some cheap shots on the field and some trash being talked off the field. But we are talking about kids and stupid fans. I don't think ECA has ever went into a game with any real football power thinking "we're gonna knock these guys down to size". I think they have always looked at it like "let's see how good we really are". And I think they have carried that attitude into the Texas games each and every time. Yes, there has always been a lot of jawwing, but I feel like that is part of the game.


Anyway, I have written a short novel and hi-jacked a thread all at once.. :o
You know, that might've been going on for yearss when you talk about holding kids back. I went to school at First Assmebly in New Orleans and we won our 1A district when I was in 8th grade. We had to travel to Buras in the rain for a Bi-District game and they had an 8th grade RB that ran all over us and looked like anything but an 8th grader.

[bullrock]

Red, I believe ECA probably does care about thier kids. I have never doubted that. I think they lost focus on what was really important though. Football is all most of us know about the school. We don't hear about all the extra curricular stuff you mentioned here in Texas. Maybe we are stereotyping them as a football factory, but what would expect us to think? There is not a 1A or 2A school in the state of Texas that could beat Lufkin. So this 2A team from LA (ECA) comes in and does it twice??? What's that all about? It doesn't seem very Christian to us. I put my kids in private school until the 4th grade too. I never put them on a pedestal or made them feel like they were superior to other less fortunate kids. That is my perception of private schools. They think they are better than the publics so they segregate. Then when they don't get what they want from the other privates, they lobby our state government to include them with the regular kids. There is nothing fair about that in my opinion. You're either in or you're out.

[lonny23]

Red, I believe ECA probably does care about thier kids. I have never doubted that. I think they lost focus on what was really important though. Football is all most of us know about the school. We don't hear about all the extra curricular stuff you mentioned here in Texas. Maybe we are stereotyping them as a football factory, but what would expect us to think? There is not a 1A or 2A school in the state of Texas that could beat Lufkin. So this 2A team from LA (ECA) comes in and does it twice??? What's that all about? It doesn't seem very Christian to us. I put my kids in private school until the 4th grade too. I never put them on a pedestal or made them feel like they were superior to other less fortunate kids. That is my perception of private schools. They think they are better than the publics so they segregate. Then when they don't get what they want from the other privates, they lobby our state government to include them with the regular kids. There is nothing fair about that in my opinion. You're either in or you're out.
I have a solution to the private/public thing. Put the privates in with 26-5A since Judson and Madison recruits kids! :D

It's unfair to public schools to play private schools when one can recruit and the other one can't.

[Redneckn]

I had typed up a really good reply and lost it when the board belched.

Bull, I realize that a lot of what y'all hear about is either football or negative and football tossed in somehow.

Didya know that Evangel hosts a camp for kids every summer? It is just for inner city kids. It's completely free. They bus them in, feed them breakfast, teach them things and listen to them. Feed them lunch. Give them a feeling of being more than just some "ghetto kid". It's like a day camp type thing. Parents, teachers, kids, whomever come and donate their time to help out and try to make these kids feel loved in a world where sometimes they aren't loved. I have gone out there a time a 2 and spent some time helping little kids make little projects and stuff. Really makes you feel good inside when you see their smiling little faces...

The football teams at ECA have gone countless times to prisons to share the Word of God. They have gone to old folks homes and visited people that have families that wont come and visit. I have seen the football and baseball teams go and help old or disabled people move into a new home or apartment.

There really is a lot more than meets the outside eye there.

When I started there in 1989, there were about 10 seniors. Today there are over 200 kids in school there.
When I go there to see moms the kids are all smiling and happy. They say "hi" to me and stuff. And most of them dont know me from the man on the moon.
I think privates are doing for kids what publics cant in La. La schools are failing and parents are tired of it. When my kids lived in La, I made sure they were in private school. I refuse to have dumb kids.
If they lived with me now, here in Texas, they would be in public school. Your publics here are way better then La. publics...

I don't know much about the public/private debate here in Texas. I know it seems to be rather heated at times. With the schools in Texas doing as well as they appear to be doing, I find it odd that anybody would need to send their kids to a private.

[SmilinTiger]

there you go again. yes Katy has been that good, only missing the playoffs once in the last 20 years (1990 the team was 5-5). we didn't start making big playoff pushes until 1994, we usually bowed out in round 2 before then, save 1992 when we lost in round 3. ever since 1997 however, our teams have had deep playoff runs.

It was in 1994 that Katy beat Judson in the semi-finals. 1994 was the beginning of our current run having qualified for the State Game 6 times since. Katy took Judson down again at the 1st HEB bowl game in San Antonio in 1998.

[lonny23]

It was in 1994 that Katy beat Judson in the semi-finals. 1994 was the beginning of our current run having qualified for the State Game 6 times since. Katy took Judson down again at the 1st HEB bowl game in San Antonio in 1998.
That game in San Antonio was in 1999 and Judson missed the playoffs that year.

I had a feeling you were going to sneak an extra game in there. Try 5 times including 1994. 1998 doesn't count no matter how much you guys want it to!:mad:

[bullrock]

Redneck,
Let's call it a truce. If I thought the schools were that bad when my kids were in school, I would have done the same thing. I learned a long time ago and I tried to instill this in my kids, you take out of anything no more than you are willing to put in. I don't know about the public school situation in La but I am certain in Texas, and i don't care where you go, you have the equal opportunity to achieve achademic success in our public schools. I didn't say you would have air conditioning or computers or the best of everything, but I am certain learning is avavilable if that is what you're seeking.

[Redneckn]

Redneck,
I didn't say you would have air conditioning or computers or the best of everything, but I am certain learning is avavilable if that is what you're seeking.


That's a very true statement. I think sometimes, we as a society, take our technologies from granted. Your kids are fortunate to have a parent such as yourself.

[lonny23]

That's a very true statement. I think sometimes, we as a society, take our technologies from granted. Your kids are fortunate to have a parent such as yourself.I don't know if I would go THAT far!:p