Didn't realize this board was full of rich folk

[dada]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:














Can you loan me something?

[slorch]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:














Can you loan me something?

if you believe that's the cut off, as it changed 2 or 3 times during the campaign, I won't be able to loan you anything, but I'll have to sell you something.

I know you're joking, but this line of thought is the reason I think our country is in trouble. agreeing with a tax-increase because you're not getting hit with it is fundamentally selfish and wrong. i have said from the beginning that I do not make more than $250k, but I absolutely disagree with a tax increase in a time of economic struggle like today. It is not "OK with me" just because it may not affect me. It is a matter of principle, which so many people, on so many important issues, conveniently throw out the window and just look at themselves.

It's quite dissappointing.

[CyFallsMom]

That cutoff will be WAY lower. Is that some ocean view land in Arizona you got there Slorch?;). There are some happy people today that would certainly fall for it.:rolleyes:

[dada]

if you believe that's the cut off, as it changed 2 or 3 times during the campaign, I won't be able to loan you anything, but I'll have to sell you something.

I'm barely pushing 45K.....I should be good for a while. Unless he wants a cut of my weed money.

[dragonsdaddy]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $50K a year......I just have one thing to say:














Can you loan me something?fify. #1 campaign lie to be broken. he hasn't mentioned the 250K lately and his people are using the 150k figure so i assume it'll be adjusted down quite a bit from there by inauguration day. it should actually be "all taxpayers" will be paying more. my offer to wager my tax bill increase against my tax bill decrease still stands.

[stevefoxsc]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:













Can you loan me something?

Yes let them fear losing money, when they live well above average. Yes the poor shame that they can't take exotic trips to Cabo Mexico. Such a shame they can't run into the cold waters only to get laughed at in return when some group of sorority girls laughs asking what the small bulge is. Its a shame really.

[SLC]

Does any folks find it strange that among the rich, he (Obama) actuallt gained 18% more support this election than did Kerry or Gore?

[dragonsdaddy]

Does any folks find it strange that among the rich, he (Obama) actuallt gained 18% more support this election than did Kerry or Gore?
white guilt???

[pied]

white guilt???

Tired of politics as usual for this Republican.

[slorch]

Yes let them fear losing money, when they live well above average. Yes the poor shame that they can't take exotic trips to Cabo Mexico. Such a shame they can't run into the cold waters only to get laughed at in return when some group of sorority girls laughs asking what the small bulge is. Its a shame really.

It's a shame that you harbor such hatred towards folks that work for a living.

never been to cabo.
my vacations are almost always geared around family or sports events.

I'm working my *** off to be able to live comfortably in my "non-earning" years- for the life of me I cannot comprehend why someone would want to take that away from me when they are not willing to work as hard as I do.


Why don't we focus on spreading the "responsibility" and then sharing the wealth will occur naturally?

[slorch]

Tired of politics as usual for this Republican.

you'll get a new form of politics in the next 2 years, that's fo sho.

raype and highway robbery come to mind, both morally and fiscally.

[pied]

you'll get a new form of politics in the next 2 years, that's fo sho.

raype and highway robbery come to mind, both morally and fiscally.

yikes.

[stevefoxsc]

It's a shame that you harbor such hatred towards folks that work for a living.

never been to cabo.
my vacations are almost always geared around family or sports events.

I'm working my *** off to be able to live comfortably in my "non-earning" years- for the life of me I cannot comprehend why someone would want to take that away from me when they are not willing to work as hard as I do.


Why don't we focus on spreading the "responsibility" and then sharing the wealth will occur naturally?

i'm sorry slorch when those tax cuts take place your more than welcome to stay in the family house in puerto rico no skinny dipping at night.

[HUM398]

i'm sorry slorch when those tax cuts take place your more than welcome to stay in the family house in puerto rico no skinny dipping at night.

You are such a moron. Its unfathomable to think you are our future.

[J-Rock Mom]

I am far from being rich, but what he is wanting to do will affect all of us. He wants to raise taxes on businesses, in the long run we all have our taxes raised because the businesses are going to have to raise prices to pay those taxes, so then we are having to pay more.

[HUM398]

I am far from being rich, but what he is wanting to do will affect all of us. He wants to raise taxes on businesses, in the long run we all have our taxes raised because the businesses are going to have to raise prices to pay those taxes, so then we are having to pay more.

Don't be selfish...:rolleyes:

BE PATRIOTIC

[SLC]

white guilt???



I dont think so... There are ALOT of rich people who vote for Democrats..

[RedRage00]

I dont think so... There are ALOT of rich people who vote for Democrats..

Yup ;)

[slorch]

I am far from being rich, but what he is wanting to do will affect all of us. He wants to raise taxes on businesses, in the long run we all have our taxes raised because the businesses are going to have to raise prices to pay those taxes, so then we are having to pay more.

and there you have it... the big picture...:notworthy

[J-Rock Mom]

Don't be selfish...:rolleyes:

BE PATRIOTIC

Damn straight I am going to be selfish with the money I have worked my butt off for.

[pied]

You are such a moron. Its unfathomable to think you are our future.

wow

[chhspantherfan]

wow

surely, you don't take HUM seriously.:rolleyes:

[Pearland 06]

Maybe I should drop out of school and get a minimum wage job - isnt that "in" now?

[tayb]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:














Can you loan me something?

Silly Dada. Why loan you money when it will be taken and handed over to you anyways and you won't have to pay it back.

[mad_fan]

I'll be happy to pay more...
And as I won't be able to trace my money...
I'll tell myself...
Wars and bailouts are not cheap...

[dragons08]

Dada why ask for the money now? If you quit your job, you'll get even more than a loan from one of us.

[dada]

Dada why ask for the money now? If you quit your job, you'll get even more than a loan from one of us.

But I've been working since I was 16...that's all I know. But from the looks of things....it's all been for nothing because if you don't make over $250K a year.....you're already scum of the earth and waiting on handouts.:confused:.. What is a guy to do?

[stevefoxsc]

You are such a moron. Its unfathomable to think you are our future.

you're such a asinine cocksure bigoted moron, its hard to believe people like you are allowed to breed.

But I've been working since I was 16...that's all I know. But from the looks of things....it's all been for nothing because if you don't make over $250K a year.....you're already scum of the earth and waiting on handouts.:confused:.. What is a guy to do?

some don't know what working for something is like, that's not to punish wealthy people who indulge in giving there kids opportunities they didn't have in their time.

[tayb]

But I've been working since I was 16...that's all I know. But from the looks of things....it's all been for nothing because if you don't make over $250K a year.....you're already scum of the earth and waiting on handouts.:confused:.. What is a guy to do?

The real scum of the earth are the guys who managed to work their way up the ladder and now make a good amount of money. Those guys are the bad guys.

[CKE]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:











Can you loan me something?
I believe in the American dream of being able to make money like that and working hard to do it and not having to worry giving it to people that do not work as hard.My family is best friends with one of the wealthiest people that live in our area. He was as orphan in Germany and was adopted when his dad was in the U.S. Army. Came over here worked his *** off put himself through school worked his way up from being a truck driver to owning one of the biggest trucking companies in Texas and now he gets screwed because of his hard work????God bless America :rolleyes:

[TulsaHale74]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year.....
There's a lot people making over $250K that aren't angry. I can't speak for the angry people though.

It's not really that hard to make $250K a year. It's obvious to me that Obama picked that number because he knew anyone who made less was just dumb, lazy, or both. The government is going to have to support all these people anyway and the piddly amount of taxes they pay compared to we real-Americans is just irrelevant. I hold no grudges toward Obama because he knows the truth. Sure, I'm going to have to pay more taxes but I'm just going to make my employees work for less pay to make up the difference. If that's not enough I just stop providing company matching funds for their 401k's.

Let me give you an example. People who BUY "Life is Good" merchandise are morons. Those of us who SELL that merchandise are the ones who actually understand the slogan. We get rich because of morons. Obama's election has proved a majority of Americans are morons but that's okay because we real-Americans know we can make more money than ever.

Just on the chance there's someone on this board who makes less than $250K and thinks they aren't a moron I'll try to help you if I can.

Send 6 monthly payments of only $99.99 and I'll send you my program titled "How to Exploit Morons and make more than $250K a year" on DVD.

Any questions?

"Life is Good"















:D

[dada]

At 45K a year....I guess that makes me legally r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d....

That's the point I was getting to...since I don't make $250K a year.....I'm being lazy?

[katyfan52]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:

Can you loan me something?
I know what you mean. I've begun to think I should be flirting instead of arguing with all the rich guys around here. :rolleyes: Don't worry dada. I'll never change. Didn't flirt when I was young and cute, can't see why I should start now.:D

[dada]

I know what you mean. I've begun to think I should be flirting instead of arguing with all the rich guys around here. :rolleyes: Don't worry dada. I'll never change. Didn't flirt when I was young and cute, can't see why I should start now.:D

I was fishing for that single, rich, football loving lady myself!...lol

[CKE]

At 45K a year....I guess that makes me legally r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d....

That's the point I was getting to...since I don't make $250K a year.....I'm being lazy?

Not lazy just less fortunate than other people that have worked just as hard as you in a different job occupation...everyone has been told since they were born that life is not fair and it never will be but that doesn't mean you should take away from the people that have more luck than you.

[katyfan52]

if you believe that's the cut off, as it changed 2 or 3 times during the campaign, I won't be able to loan you anything, but I'll have to sell you something.

I know you're joking, but this line of thought is the reason I think our country is in trouble. agreeing with a tax-increase because you're not getting hit with it is fundamentally selfish and wrong. i have said from the beginning that I do not make more than $250k, but I absolutely disagree with a tax increase in a time of economic struggle like today. It is not "OK with me" just because it may not affect me. It is a matter of principle, which so many people, on so many important issues, conveniently throw out the window and just look at themselves.

It's quite dissappointing.
Did you agree with the tax rates returning to what they were under Clinton when the fundamentals of the economy were sound?

[HUM398]

you're such a asinine cocksure bigoted moron, its hard to believe people like you are allowed to breed.



some don't know what working for something is like, that's not to punish wealthy people who indulge in giving there kids opportunities they didn't have in their time.

You are so racist.

[HUM398]

I was fishing for that single, rich, football loving lady myself!...lol

It only takes a bottle of Rum....

[HUM398]

At 45K a year....I guess that makes me legally r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d....

That's the point I was getting to...since I don't make $250K a year.....I'm being lazy?

When did you change your name to just Dada?

[dada]

It only takes a bottle of Rum....

They key is....I need to single one out first.....then show up with the Rum...so far...nobody's taking the bait.

[HUM398]

surely, you don't take HUM seriously.:rolleyes:

apparently so.

[dada]

When did you change your name to just Dada?

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=38594

[HUM398]

They key is....I need to single one out first.....then show up with the Rum...so far...nobody's taking the bait.

Wear black socks, white shoes and a banana hammock to Fox's Sports bar....its easy fishing.

You'll pick up that Rich White sports loving mom who has supple.........

[HUM398]

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=38594

I would of supported the DadaX.

[katyfan52]

if you believe that's the cut off, as it changed 2 or 3 times during the campaign, I won't be able to loan you anything, but I'll have to sell you something.

I know you're joking, but this line of thought is the reason I think our country is in trouble. agreeing with a tax-increase because you're not getting hit with it is fundamentally selfish and wrong. i have said from the beginning that I do not make more than $250k, but I absolutely disagree with a tax increase in a time of economic struggle like today. It is not "OK with me" just because it may not affect me. It is a matter of principle, which so many people, on so many important issues, conveniently throw out the window and just look at themselves.

It's quite dissappointing.
The cutoff is $200,000 per individual, and $250,000 per couple. If you are going to hold the campaign to Biden's misstatement of $150,000, then should we also assume that McCain saw himself and his constituents as "prisoners", or should we assume that his misstatement was also just a slip of the tongue?

[HUM398]

The cutoff is $200,000 per individual, and $250,000 per couple. If you are going to hold the campaign to Biden's misstatement of $150,000, then should we also assume that McCain saw himself and his constituents as "prisoners", or should we assume that his misstatement was also just a slip of the tongue?

Doesn't really matter anymore.

[Pool Man]

I don't agree with tax increases, but what really bothers me that no one can tell me how this going to impact me. The amount kept changing so much and if you look at his plan, there isn't any real definitions in there. At this point, just cut to the chase and tell us what were going to have to pay so I can start planning for it and figuring out how I'm going to do it.

[katyfan52]

Doesn't really matter anymore.
Does to Slorch. I was just trying to give him some hope. :) He's a pretty nice guy. I hate to see him so angry and fearful.

[dada]

I don't agree with tax increases, but what really bothers me that no one can tell me how this going to impact me. The amount kept changing so much and if you look at his plan, there isn't any real definitions in there. At this point, just cut to the chase and tell us what were going to have to pay so I can start planning for it and figuring out how I'm going to do it.

Do you make 250K a year?

[RedRage00]

Do you make 250K a year?

There are a lot of Joe "the Plumbers" on this board. ;)

[the_great_state_of_TExas]

I don't agree with tax increases, but what really bothers me that no one can tell me how this going to impact me. The amount kept changing so much and if you look at his plan, there isn't any real definitions in there. At this point, just cut to the chase and tell us what were going to have to pay so I can start planning for it and figuring out how I'm going to do it.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/29/news/economy/candidates_tax_plans/index.htm

Here you go...

BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how average tax bills could change in 2009 if the candidates' tax proposals were fully in effect.* An average decline doesn't mean everyone's bill in a given group would fall, nor does an average increase imply everyone's bill goes up.
OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M +$699,872
$603K and up +$121,689
$227K-$603K +$942
$161K-$227K -$2,796
$112K-$161K -$2,135
$66K-$112K -$1,264
$38K-$66K -$1,118
$19K-$38K -$892
Under $19K -$567

[katyfan52]

I don't agree with tax increases, but what really bothers me that no one can tell me how this going to impact me. The amount kept changing so much and if you look at his plan, there isn't any real definitions in there. At this point, just cut to the chase and tell us what were going to have to pay so I can start planning for it and figuring out how I'm going to do it.
Don't think of it as a tax increase. Think of it as hitting the "undo button" on a mistake. Initially those tax increases were sold as temporary. Well now they are/were.

[SV61]

Don't think of it as a tax increase. Think of it as hitting the "undo button" on a mistake. Initially those tax increases were sold as temporary. Well now they are/were.

I guess that is my friction with Tax increase(s), instead of reduction of spending.

The WHOLE INCOME TAX system was introduced as temporary. Now, we are arguing over the percentage of taxes, and WHO pays them.

Call me a relic.

[katyfan52]

There are a lot of Joe "the Plumbers" on this board. ;)
You know if "Joe the plumber" is only pulling down $47,000 a year he's doing something wrong. I just got a quote of 1700 dollars from a plumber to do a 6 hour job. $1300 of that was labor. My calculator says that is over $200 an hour; to bring a water heater in my garage up to code.

[Pool Man]

Do you make 250K a year?

No, but I've heard so many numbers thrown around that I don't know what to think. I'll bet it's a lot less than 250K and when it's all said and done, it will affect me.

[Pool Man]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/29/news/economy/candidates_tax_plans/index.htm

Here you go...

BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how average tax bills could change in 2009 if the candidates' tax proposals were fully in effect.* An average decline doesn't mean everyone's bill in a given group would fall, nor does an average increase imply everyone's bill goes up.
OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M +$699,872
$603K and up +$121,689
$227K-$603K +$942
$161K-$227K -$2,796
$112K-$161K -$2,135
$66K-$112K -$1,264
$38K-$66K -$1,118
$19K-$38K -$892
Under $19K -$567

I would seriously question the source of this information.

[Dawg Fan]

You know if "Joe the plumber" is only pulling down $47,000 a year he's doing something wrong. I just got a quote of 1700 dollars from a plumber to do a 6 hour job. $1300 of that was labor. My calculator says that is over $200 an hour; to bring a water heater in my garage up to code.

I would suggest getting another quote

[SV61]

Unless plumbers are at a premium in H-Town because of a Hurricane or something, I would sure get another estimate. You should be able to get it done for half that. There really isn't that much labor involved. Draining the old tank would take the longest.

I mean, I live 4 hours away, and would do it for $1699!

:D

[Pool Man]

You know if "Joe the plumber" is only pulling down $47,000 a year he's doing something wrong. I just got a quote of 1700 dollars from a plumber to do a 6 hour job. $1300 of that was labor. My calculator says that is over $200 an hour; to bring a water heater in my garage up to code.

When my water heater went out, I bought a new one at a cost of about $400, then for the sake of time, had one of these handyman services install it for another $150. Done for $550. Is there some special problem you have that you're dealing with?

[Miss Kitty]

You know if "Joe the plumber" is only pulling down $47,000 a year he's doing something wrong. I just got a quote of 1700 dollars from a plumber to do a 6 hour job. $1300 of that was labor. My calculator says that is over $200 an hour; to bring a water heater in my garage up to code.

Oh come on, just go get you a water heater from HD and you and I can put it in. Got a wrench and a hammer? ;)

[SaRattlerFan]

Yes let them fear losing money, when they live well above average. Yes the poor shame that they can't take exotic trips to Cabo Mexico. Such a shame they can't run into the cold waters only to get laughed at in return when some group of sorority girls laughs asking what the small bulge is. Its a shame really.

I hate it wehn people actually work hard for their money and want to keep some for their own use.:rolleyes:

[Pool Man]

I hate it wehn people actually work hard for their money and want to keep some for their own use.:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's why Obama called me "selfish" last week at that rally.

[slorch]

Did you agree with the tax rates returning to what they were under Clinton when the fundamentals of the economy were sound?

I want to work the other side of the equation and cut spending.

That's what normal people do when times get tight...

[slorch]

Does to Slorch. I was just trying to give him some hope. :) He's a pretty nice guy. I hate to see him so angry and fearful.

i'm not angry.

I still think a whole lot of folks ignored what this cat is all about.

the evidence is all out there...

BTW, nice congratulatory message from Chavez today. Coincidence? had to have been...yet another indiscretionary "aquaintence"

just saying...

[FeeltheHaka]

I laugh when people call the Democrats Socialist. They are ignorant, and do not really know what Socialism is.
I do however believe that Supply Side economics as push by the Republican Party is akin to the type of Communism practiced by the USSR. Where the Soviets had the money and power, and the Proletariat were supposed to reap the trickle down given by the Soviets.
Also, in Feudalism; where the Monarchs were supposed to trickle down the toils to the Serfs or free their indentured servititude.

So when someone calls a Democrat a Socialist, they themselves must by Communist or Feudalist.

A great comparison: Obama clearly said your taxes will not be raised if you make below 250,000K a year. Despite what others have said in other threads, that figure has not changed throughout his campaign. If you are claiming this, than back it up with proof. And TulsaHale, in another thread you said it is not hard to make 250,000K a year; well please enlighten me and others to this!
Anyway, raising taxes on the wealthy is fair. Why? They realize the results of their tax dollars better than everyone. Look at public schools in higher income areas. Look at police response time, Sanitation, Streets, etc. They are realizing the benefit of what they pay. Also, a good portion of wealthy people are business owners. Businesses with their lack of paying proper benefits (ala Walmart) have forced many to use social services. Also, just take a look at all the corporate welfare that is paid. Much more than social welfare. This corporate and business welfare is paid to aid in the rich getting richer. Already the upper 10% own approximatley 95% of the wealth. That is a fact. Read it twice if you have to. Yes, rich people manipulate a lot of things to get where they are. Just take a look at the bailout! I mean, we gave an insane amount of money to people who already pillaged an insane amount of money! Yes, both candidates voted for it. Think about this. You buy a share of stock for $20. It drops in value to $12. Where do you think that $8 that you lost goes? It does not just disappear into thin air! Certain people are set up to profit whether to economy is good or bad. They do this on the backs of working people. When one owns a business, sure they work hard to start the business, but the people who work for the owner; work just as hard, if not harder; and realize much less benefit. How many of you are busting your rear end, making your employers and/or investors rich?
Also, many of you are naive if you believe that the upper class pays a lot of taxes. They use their monies to hire accountants who hide their earnings and/or use tax loopholes! I'll quote my father who is very wealthy, and is an executive of a fortune 500 company. "If anyone in the top 10% actually pays more than 30% in taxes, then they must have just won the money in the lottery, and do not know any better!" The funny thing is I hear about how much the upper 10% pay as a percentage of income tax revenues taken in by the Federal Government. The figure that is usually given is what they are supposed to pay in theory, and not what they actually pay!

So, after all that do you really believe that Democrats are Socialist?
Please look at how much corporate welfare is paid out, compared to social welfare.
Please look at what Socialism really is. Please look at what how the USSR practiced Communism, and how that is related to Supply side economic trickle down theory.
Those who call Democrats Socialist are fear-mongering or ignorant.

Btw: I voted for Ralph Nader. Why? Because in looking at campaign contributions, Big business and influential people gave money to both sides to hedge their bets. In other words, nothing is really going to change. Like I said, until a third party is brought in, The rich and influential are set up to profit either way. I wanted to give numbers to those of us who do not want to give a mandate to either of the two parties.

[SV61]

I want to work the other side of the equation and cut spending.

That's what normal people do when times get tight...

See my post, about 13 back.

It is like taboo, to think about cutting spending.

What is wrong with people?

[farmerfan]

Whats going to happen to capital gains?
Increase?
Decrease?
Stay the same?
No need to worry since the market sucks anyways?

Just thought I'd ask.
I've been playing the market since I was 16 and failed myelf by not paying enough attention to Obama's plans in regards to that.
I'm lucky in that I've had some guided help and played it pretty smart for a drunk Farmer.

[TulsaHale74]

...
A great comparison: Obama clearly said your taxes will not be raised if you make below 250,000K a year. Despite what others have said in other threads, that figure has not changed throughout his campaign. If you are claiming this, than back it up with proof. And TulsaHale, in another thread you said it is not hard to make 250,000K a year; well please enlighten me and others to this!
...
It was this same thread.

I don't think I said it is not hard to make $250 Million a year.

However I already said I would share how to make $250 Thousand a year. Did you not read the whole post?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I'm sorry. The post was mostly in jest, although I do believe life is good for people who can convince others to buy their products. I thought the $99.99 offer would give it away. I was wrong. :)

[dragons08]

But I've been working since I was 16...that's all I know. But from the looks of things....it's all been for nothing because if you don't make over $250K a year.....you're already scum of the earth and waiting on handouts.:confused:.. What is a guy to do?

That 250K figure is BS.

[dragonsdaddy]

At 45K a year....I guess that makes me legally r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d....

That's the point I was getting to...since I don't make $250K a year.....I'm being lazy?
not at all. it means you are ripe for a tax raise, un less you follow the below referrenced logic.

BAR STOOL ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for
all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the
bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until
one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.
Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get
his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's
share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same
amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing
(100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.
'I only got a dollar out of the $20, 'declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man.
'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'
'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he
get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill,they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!
(The 10th man was originally paying $59 of $100, then $49 of $80)
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and
they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics,
University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[CSRadioGuy]

Think about this. You buy a share of stock for $20. It drops in value to $12. Where do you think that $8 that you lost goes? It does not just disappear into thin air! Certain people are set up to profit whether to economy is good or bad.

^^Needs to learn what "selling short" is and the difference between buying puts and selling calls. Anyone can set themselves up to do well when the market tanks. You just have to know how to do it and it's perfectly legal. Talk to your financial advisor.

And no, the money doesn't just "disappear". You paid 20 bucks for something that is now worth 12 bucks. The person you bought it from has the $20 whether the stock goes up or down. It's when you try to re-sell it later that you "realize" your gain or your loss. Buy low, sell high. Too many people start to panic and sell when everything goes down but hang on when the value is at it's peak because they say "I don't want to sell now, it's worth twice what I paid!!!" That's exactly why they should sell at that time.

That supposed 8 bucks that you lost didn't go to anyone who's trying to profit "off the backs of working people". That 8 bucks went into the pocket of the guy who's smart enough to see something that's normally worth 20 bucks just dropped to 12 bucks and bought it.

Am I making sense?

[Miss Kitty]

not at all. it means you are ripe for a tax raise, un less you follow the below referrenced logic.

BAR STOOL ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for
all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the
bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until
one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.
Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get
his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's
share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same
amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing
(100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.
'I only got a dollar out of the $20, 'declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man.
'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'
'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he
get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill,they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!
(The 10th man was originally paying $59 of $100, then $49 of $80)
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and
they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics,
University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

I understand it, but now I am thirsty. Is it Miller Time yet?:)

[CSRadioGuy]

not at all. it means you are ripe for a tax raise, un less you follow the below referrenced logic.

BAR STOOL ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for
all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the
bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until
one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.
Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get
his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's
share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same
amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing
(100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.
'I only got a dollar out of the $20, 'declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man.
'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'
'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he
get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill,they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!
(The 10th man was originally paying $59 of $100, then $49 of $80)
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and
they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics,
University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[voiceofoldguinnessguy]Brilliant! [/oldguinnessguy]

[JMSFan]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:














Can you loan me something?

Obama will take it from me, and give it to you. No loan will be needed.

[LoneRocket]

That 250K figure is BS.

How do you know?

[dragonsdaddy]

Obama clearly said your taxes will not be raised if you make below 250,000K a year. Despite what others have said in other threads, that figure has not changed throughout his campaign. If you are claiming this, than back it up with proof. And TulsaHale, in another thread you said it is not hard to make 250,000K a year; well please enlighten me and others to this!
saying something over and over doesn't make it true. it makes it harder to explain away. but now that we have bought the farm, we can't complain when the well is poisoned and the grass has all been planted on rocks. i hope he is accurate in his 250k assessment, but woe to all those who will take the brunt of the tax raises, cause the libs aren't known for ever cutting spending to anything that looks like an entitlement , using anybodies money but their own.

[dragonsdaddy]

How do you know?

just a hunch. but if you are planning on significantly increasing your household's expenses, you'd better have a source for some extra income somewhere. you can only milk a cow so many times a day.

[LoneRocket]

just a hunch. but if you are planning on significantly increasing your household's expenses, you'd better have a source for some extra income somewhere. you can only milk a cow so many times a day.

So if you turn out to be wrong, are you going to man up on this board?

[JMSFan]

So if you turn out to be wrong, are you going to man up on this board?


What makes you believe you are right?

[dragons08]

How do you know?

He is liberal. They just keep spending more and more. Where is that "more" going to come from?

[RedRage00]

Obama will take it from me, and give it to you. No loan will be needed.

Calm down. Obama isn't going to take some of your $30,000 per year salary.

[LoneRocket]

What makes you believe you are right?

Are going to man up?

[JMSFan]

Are going to man up?


I man up to everything that I say or do.

Answer my question.

[Favpack]

I don't feel guilty for making less than $250k, and wouldn't feel guilty if I did.

[dragonsdaddy]

So if you turn out to be wrong, are you going to man up on this board?

you obviously have decided to take me up on my proposition. any refunds/decrease in taxes i get will go directly to you while any increases i am facing will be covered by you. since you believe the big o, should be easy money. i made this offer several times and you are the first to take me up. thanks. i don't have paypal yet, but i'll get it for your funds transfer.

[LoneRocket]

He is liberal. They just keep spending more and more. Where is that "more" going to come from?

Actually it has been the conservatives who have been spending more and more. I ask you the question where are you getting information that is not going to be under 250k?

[LoneRocket]

I man up to everything that I say or do.

Answer my question.

I asked you first please do not answer a question with a question.

[Pearland 06]

LoneRocket, he answered your question. Your turn.

[JMSFan]

I asked you first please do not answer a question with a question.

I thought so. Doesnt surprise me at all. So very typical.
Now answer the question about why you believe you are right.

[JMSFan]

LoneRocket, he answered your question. Your turn.

He wont.

[EagleDude73]

Whats going to happen to capital gains?
Increase?
Decrease?
Stay the same?
No need to worry since the market sucks anyways?

Just thought I'd ask.
I've been playing the market since I was 16 and failed myelf by not paying enough attention to Obama's plans in regards to that.
I'm lucky in that I've had some guided help and played it pretty smart for a drunk Farmer.

I played around with some of my 401 last month after firing the investors. Instead of losing $800.00 a month, I gained $ 22.00. Will stay on this same path until BO gets everything cleaned up. IMHO, the man wanted the job so we are going to have to cowboy up and give him the support he needs. Everyone keeps complaining the Dems spend, spend, spend but I don't see how they can possibly run this term with that policy. If they do we will definitely see another Great Depression. Personally, I don't see BO continuing to hand out the freebies. This is out of control. A couple (white) checked out in front of me at Wal-Marts the other night with 4 pkgs of Starbucks Frappacino's and paid for it with a Lone Star card. That my friend is BS.

[LoneRocket]

I thought so. Doesnt surprise me at all. So very typical.
Now answer the question about why you believe you are right.

No, you are typical you do not surprise me at all by not answering. I stated if you are wrong about the 250k are you going to man up and say you are wrong?

[Dawg Fan]

^^Needs to learn what "selling short" is and the difference between buying puts and selling calls. Anyone can set themselves up to do well when the market tanks. You just have to know how to do it and it's perfectly legal. Talk to your financial advisor.

And no, the money doesn't just "disappear". You paid 20 bucks for something that is now worth 12 bucks. The person you bought it from has the $20 whether the stock goes up or down. It's when you try to re-sell it later that you "realize" your gain or your loss. Buy low, sell high. Too many people start to panic and sell when everything goes down but hang on when the value is at it's peak because they say "I don't want to sell now, it's worth twice what I paid!!!" That's exactly why they should sell at that time.

That supposed 8 bucks that you lost didn't go to anyone who's trying to profit "off the backs of working people". That 8 bucks went into the pocket of the guy who's smart enough to see something that's normally worth 20 bucks just dropped to 12 bucks and bought it.

Am I making sense?

THIS

[JMSFan]

No, you are typical you do not surprise me at all by not answering. I stated if you are wrong about the 250k are you going to man up and say you are wrong?

You dont read very well, do you?
I said that i man up to everything I say or do. Thats what a man is supposed to do.
Now answer my question.

[Dawg Fan]

No, you are typical you do not surprise me at all by not answering. I stated if you are wrong about the 250k are you going to man up and say you are wrong?

read post #83

[LoneRocket]

you obviously have decided to take me up on my proposition. any refunds/decrease in taxes i get will go directly to you while any increases i am facing will be covered by you. since you believe the big o, should be easy money. i made this offer several times and you are the first to take me up. thanks. i don't have paypal yet, but i'll get it for your funds transfer.

Actually if I am wrong about the threshold I will have to pay the 4 percent more which leaves with two choices look for more shelters and deductions or work more to surpass the limit so I can take the hit and support some else who will do what they say they will do. I hope locally that our state Heroes will do something about our high property taxes and school funding.

[LoneRocket]

You dont read very well, do you?
I said that i man up to everything I say or do. Thats what a man is supposed to do.
Now answer my question.

If you are a man answer the question of what makes you think the 250k is not the limit? Thats what a man is supposed to do.

[JMSFan]

If you are a man answer the question of what makes you think the 250k is not the limit? Thats what a man is supposed to do.

Forget it. Continue to be less than a man and dodge my question. I answered yours, but you cant answer me.
Or wont.

[LoneRocket]

Forget it. Continue to be less than a man and dodge my question. I answered yours, but you cant answer me.
Or wont.

Yeah, lets forget it since you won't answer the 250k question shows you do not man up.

[slorch]

I played around with some of my 401 last month after firing the investors. Instead of losing $800.00 a month, I gained $ 22.00. Will stay on this same path until BO gets everything cleaned up. IMHO, the man wanted the job so we are going to have to cowboy up and give him the support he needs. Everyone keeps complaining the Dems spend, spend, spend but I don't see how they can possibly run this term with that policy. If they do we will definitely see another Great Depression. Personally, I don't see BO continuing to hand out the freebies. This is out of control. A couple (white) checked out in front of me at Wal-Marts the other night with 4 pkgs of Starbucks Frappacino's and paid for it with a Lone Star card. That my friend is BS.

I guess they should have bought beans and rice only...:rolleyes:

I see it all of the time, but how do you police it?

Time limits on Lone Star, but nobody has the guts to do it.

5 years, max of two dependents. have all the Lone Star you want...for half a decade. That's plenty of time to get back on tyour feet if you want to.

[JMSFan]

you obviously have decided to take me up on my proposition. any refunds/decrease in taxes i get will go directly to you while any increases i am facing will be covered by you. since you believe the big o, should be easy money. i made this offer several times and you are the first to take me up. thanks. i don't have paypal yet, but i'll get it for your funds transfer.

Be careful, he's easily confused.

[EagleDude73]

I guess they should have bought beans and rice only...:rolleyes:

I see it all of the time, but how do you police it?

Time limits on Lone Star, but nobody has the guts to do it.

5 years, max of two dependents. have all the Lone Star you want...for half a decade. That's plenty of time to get back on tyour feet if you want to.

I don't expect them to eat beans and rice all the time which BTW is one of my favorites but there has to be limits somewhere. I hear there are still people living in FEMA trailers in the Southeast. If there is no work for them there, they need to go elsewhere for awhile. I think for able bodied workers, 5 years is plenty after "An Event."

[Pearland 06]

JMS, unless I am mistaken, Lonedude wants to know how old you are. Because we all know the age of "man" is 40 ;)

[Pinion]

I guess they should have bought beans and rice only...:rolleyes:

I see it all of the time, but how do you police it?

Time limits on Lone Star, but nobody has the guts to do it.

5 years, max of two dependents. have all the Lone Star you want...for half a decade. That's plenty of time to get back on tyour feet if you want to.

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.

[TulsaHale74]

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.
I hear that lots of illegal aliens are having a difficult time finding jobs. Are you saying that these people shouldn't be allowed to vote?;)

[Pearland 06]

I hear that lots of illegal aliens are having a difficult time finding jobs. Are you saying that these people shouldn't be allowed to vote?;)

Yes.

:ninja:

[BDB]

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.

i hear that's what the founding fathers wanted...

[rocketgrl94]

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.

thats why some girls would love to have babies so they can get on welfare and live free or cheap and get better houses then the taxpayers do that really needs to change

[dragonsdaddy]

Actually if I am wrong about the threshold I will have to pay the 4 percent more which leaves with two choices look for more shelters and deductions or work more to surpass the limit so I can take the hit and support some else who will do what they say they will do. I hope locally that our state Heroes will do something about our high property taxes and school funding.

so are you going to want some of my refund or not? with your belief in bo's promises, it should be easy money.

[CKE]

Yeah, lets forget it since you won't answer the 250k question shows you do not man up.

He has already answered your question...this is why reading comprehension is a requirement now to pass high school....

[rocketgrl94]

so are you going to want some of my refund or not? with your belief in bo's promises, it should be easy money.

betta have my money!:D

[dragonsdaddy]

Yeah, lets forget it since you won't answer the 250k question shows you do not man up.

having spent 15 seconds researching this topic, maybe this clip from a possibly inside source might blow your confidence somewhat.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/10/28/biden-drops-obama-tax-threshold-from-250000-to-150000-video-102808/

[Firebird]

i hear that's what the founding fathers wanted...

Actually, it was what they wanted. Although it would be difficult to call what many of the founding fathers did a "job." Landed gentry would be more appropriate. The differently colored people that didn't have a vote did all the work, though I wouldn't call that a job, either.

[Firebird]

I played around with some of my 401 last month after firing the investors. Instead of losing $800.00 a month, I gained $ 22.00. Will stay on this same path until BO gets everything cleaned up. IMHO, the man wanted the job so we are going to have to cowboy up and give him the support he needs. Everyone keeps complaining the Dems spend, spend, spend but I don't see how they can possibly run this term with that policy. If they do we will definitely see another Great Depression. Personally, I don't see BO continuing to hand out the freebies. This is out of control. A couple (white) checked out in front of me at Wal-Marts the other night with 4 pkgs of Starbucks Frappacino's and paid for it with a Lone Star card. That my friend is BS.

What is it with so many people watching how the people in front of them pay for stuff? I hear this story all the time. I couldn't tell you how the people in front of me payed for their groceries last night, unless it was some damn person who wanted to use 300 coupons that were out of date and then pay with a check. Good thing we have citizen welfare cops on the job. Glad someone else is doing it so I don't have to peer at the register or over people's shoulder.

[LoneRocket]

so are you going to want some of my refund or not? with your belief in bo's promises, it should be easy money.

I do not know what your taxable income or what you claim in deductions for all I know your average refund might not be that much, besides you might need it more than I do. I just asked a question how do you know that 250K is not the limit.

[LoneRocket]

having spent 15 seconds researching this topic, maybe this clip from a possibly inside source might blow your confidence somewhat.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/10/28/biden-drops-obama-tax-threshold-from-250000-to-150000-video-102808/

We will see what Barack and the congress comes up with. I heard Obama use the 200- 250K and yes I know he got the 200-250 limit from Hillary. He will not be able to set tax limits without help from congress. I heard the exact samething about taxes when Clinton was first elected and people were wrong and that is why I will take a wait and see stance.

[dragonsdaddy]

I do not know what your taxable income or what you claim in deductions for all I know your average refund might not be that much, beside you might need it more than I do. I just asked a question how do you know that 250K is not the limit.
my point is, it is bo's biggest, most proveable lie. he'll spin it as unavoidable, and his fawning masses, many of whom haven't and never will pay much in the way of taxes anyway, couldn't care less. but it has already been ratcheted down about 40%, with more to come. why not punish many of the ones who voted against him anyway. they cedrtainly won't have any reason to change their vote next time around. i wonder how he'll spin all this for the 10 congressional voting cycle.

[slorch]

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.

Constitution kind of frowns on that...:D

[slorch]

Nobody has the guts to do it because those people are the ones that keep electing people.
If you dont have a job and pay taxes, you shouldnt be allowed to vote. that solves a lot of problems. Just like if you're on welfare you shouldnt be allowed to have babies.

thats why some girls would love to have babies so they can get on welfare and live free or cheap and get better houses then the taxpayers do that really needs to change

my solution solves that.

We, the people, will support you and two dependents for 5 years. If you have 2 kids, you get X. If you have 5 kids, you get the same X.

[dragonsdaddy]

I do not know what your taxable income or what you claim in deductions for all I know your average refund might not be that much, besides you might need it more than I do. I just asked a question how do you know that 250K is not the limit.

does it matter? according to you, i'll be getting a refund, and you can always use a little extra, i assume. and i am already surviving on today's onerous tax bill, anyway. i'm just trying to cover myself for the outside chance that bo is a liar.

[slorch]

I do not know what your taxable income or what you claim in deductions for all I know your average refund might not be that much, besides you might need it more than I do. I just asked a question how do you know that 250K is not the limit.

If he's working and makes more than what $15k( I don't remember) any refund he gets is his own money to begin with.

[Pinion]

Constitution kind of frowns on that...:D

Indeed it does. But that doesnt mean it cant, and shouldnt, be changed.

The politicians that cater to the welfare crowd (liberals) assure themselves a job by making sure the poor stay poor. They will tell the welfare folks "if the JohnDoeRepublican gets elected, he'll cut your welfare. You better not vote for him..If you vote for me, I'll make sure you keep your welfare benefits and may even be able to give you more". The welfare people will vote for that guy EVERY TIME.

The fix for that is to not allow anyone NOT paying income taxes a vote. I'd like to see the welfare faces the first time that happened. All those years of being lied to would suddenly become obvious and they would then realized they've been being played for years. Generations in some cases (new orleans comes to mind).

[mad_fan]

does it matter? according to you, i'll be getting a refund, and you can always use a little extra, i assume. and i am already surviving on today's onerous tax bill, anyway. i'm just trying to cover myself for the outside chance that bo is a liar.

I'm already adjusting billing rates (upward) where I can...I'm doing my part to help him save the economy...you should do the same...

[JMSFan]

JMS, unless I am mistaken, Lonedude wants to know how old you are. Because we all know the age of "man" is 40 ;)

:D FINALLY! Ive been wondering when that was coming. ( by the way, Im well over 40)

[slorch]

Indeed it does. But that doesnt mean it cant, and shouldnt, be changed.

The politicians that cater to the welfare crowd (liberals) assure themselves a job by making sure the poor stay poor. They will tell the welfare folks "if the JohnDoeRepublican gets elected, he'll cut your welfare. You better not vote for him..If you vote for me, I'll make sure you keep your welfare benefits and may even be able to give you more". The welfare people will vote for that guy EVERY TIME.

The fix for that is to not allow anyone NOT paying income taxes a vote. I'd like to see the welfare faces the first time that happened. All those years of being lied to would suddenly become obvious and they would then realized they've been being played for years. Generations in some cases (new orleans comes to mind).

that's been the dems' platform since the 60's, if not the 40's...

[dragonsdaddy]

that's been the dems' platform since the 60's, if not the 40's...

i promise you anything for your vote.

signed,

fdr

[BandidoNB]

I'm already adjusting billing rates (upward) where I can...I'm doing my part to help him save the economy...you should do the same...

wouldnt your income increase if you did that... taxing you even more?

[dragons08]

wouldnt your income increase if you did that... taxing you even more?
Right, which means he needs to raise his prices even MORE to make his "minimum" standard of living.

[dragonsdaddy]

I'm already adjusting billing rates (upward) where I can...I'm doing my part to help him save the economy...you should do the same...

i'm already working right at 90 hrs a week on one job, and every daylight hour otherwise, on the 2nd. at some point, i will run out of hours, and/or quite possibly my family too. i guess i'll just cheat on my taxes. seagoville isn't so bad in the spring, huh?

[BandidoNB]

Right, which means he needs to raise his prices even MORE to make his "minimum" standard of living.


I'll just shot at WalMart then :D

[dragons08]

i'm already working right at 90 hrs a week on one job, and every daylight hour otherwise, on the 2nd. at some point, i will run out of hours, and/or quite possibly my family too. i guess i'll just cheat on my taxes. seagoville isn't so bad in the spring, huh?

Yikes! Don't wanna work to hard, just quit both. Mad and Slorch said they'll take care of me, I'm sure they'll help you too!

[dragonsdaddy]

wouldnt your income increase if you did that... taxing you even more?
quite the conundrum, huh. oh the tangled web we weave when first we see the path to the final solution to wealth.

[dragonsdaddy]

Yikes! Don't wanna work to hard, just quit both. Mad and Slorch said they'll take care of me, I'm sure they'll help you too!

i think the ptb/or will be are expecting more out of me than that, don't you?

[BandidoNB]

quite the conundrum, huh. oh the tangled web we weave when first we see the path to the final solution to wealth.

Think of it as a charitable cause :D

[mad_fan]

wouldnt your income increase if you did that... taxing you even more?

Currently...28% works to about $196,000 a year...
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=164272,00.html
So NO...my marginal tax rate stays the same...

[mad_fan]

i'm already working right at 90 hrs a week on one job, and every daylight hour otherwise, on the 2nd. at some point, i will run out of hours, and/or quite possibly my family too. i guess i'll just cheat on my taxes. seagoville isn't so bad in the spring, huh?

San Angelo is nice...and you could probably cut back to 70-80 hours a week like me...:D

[slorch]

wouldnt your income increase if you did that... taxing you even more?

revenue would increase, but so would costs.

all mad is trying to do is keep his earnings constant...adjusted for inflation, of course.:D

[mad_fan]

revenue would increase, but so would costs.

all mad is trying to do is keep his earnings constant...adjusted for inflation, of course.:D

You GET IT...:notworthy
Everyone is focused on RATES of taxes...
Taxes are a COST...likes gasoline...and beers...
As the COSTS rise...mad is going to be SURE he gets his...:)

[Dawg Fan]

I'll just shot at WalMart then :D

and you will go to jail.......I am pretty sure they don't want you shooting there

[Slim-Rob]

http://a34.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_33e9f69b6117de815eadde0fa10adc89.jpg

[slorch]

http://a34.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_33e9f69b6117de815eadde0fa10adc89.jpg


looks like my dresser...

after a fun casino trip.:D

[dragonsdaddy]

You GET IT...:notworthy
Everyone is focused on RATES of taxes...
Taxes are a COST...likes gasoline...and beers...
As the COSTS rise...mad is going to be SURE he gets his...:)

unless your clients are unwilling/unable to stomach the increases. i use the lactating bovine analogy again. any cow can give only so much milk. if you start trying to put too many mouths on each teat, or worse, whack off a few of them in your effort to spread the wealth, the upside down pyramid scheme comes tumbling down.

[Slim-Rob]

looks like my dresser...

after a fun casino trip.:D
lol

[EagleDude73]

What is it with so many people watching how the people in front of them pay for stuff? I hear this story all the time. I couldn't tell you how the people in front of me payed for their groceries last night, unless it was some damn person who wanted to use 300 coupons that were out of date and then pay with a check. Good thing we have citizen welfare cops on the job. Glad someone else is doing it so I don't have to peer at the register or over people's shoulder.


It was really difficult to miss when just like with coupons and checks that won't scan, HE couldn't get the card to swipe and the cashier had to close out HIS transaction and swipe it herself which then triggered something that the manager had to come over and clear. And yes if you are in front of me and then pull out your checkbook after the final total, then start filling in the date, name of institution, etc., your'e going to PO me. I may not say anything but you should have all of this done by the time the person ahead of you is checked out.

[SaRattlerFan]

http://a34.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/20/l_33e9f69b6117de815eadde0fa10adc89.jpg



Hiding money from Obama already?:D

[Slim-Rob]

Hiding money from Obama already?:D
I don't know what you're talking about
*tucks hundreds into hole in wall*

[FeeltheHaka]

^^Needs to learn what "selling short" is and the difference between buying puts and selling calls. Anyone can set themselves up to do well when the market tanks. You just have to know how to do it and it's perfectly legal. Talk to your financial advisor.

And no, the money doesn't just "disappear". You paid 20 bucks for something that is now worth 12 bucks. The person you bought it from has the $20 whether the stock goes up or down. It's when you try to re-sell it later that you "realize" your gain or your loss. Buy low, sell high. Too many people start to panic and sell when everything goes down but hang on when the value is at it's peak because they say "I don't want to sell now, it's worth twice what I paid!!!" That's exactly why they should sell at that time.

That supposed 8 bucks that you lost didn't go to anyone who's trying to profit "off the backs of working people". That 8 bucks went into the pocket of the guy who's smart enough to see something that's normally worth 20 bucks just dropped to 12 bucks and bought it.

Am I making sense?

You make perfect sense, and you're somewhat right, but you have to think real deep about this. Really think where that 8$ goes, and who gets it. When you understand this, you may be enlightened.

[FeeltheHaka]

saying something over and over doesn't make it true. it makes it harder to explain away. but now that we have bought the farm, we can't complain when the well is poisoned and the grass has all been planted on rocks. i hope he is accurate in his 250k assessment, but woe to all those who will take the brunt of the tax raises, cause the libs aren't known for ever cutting spending to anything that looks like an entitlement , using anybodies money but their own.

Bill Clinton held true with his promise of not raising taxes to those who make under $180K per year with his budget from 1992, which brought us the greatest economic prosperity this nation has ever seen. Also, Bill Clinton cut Govt. spending more than Reagan and Bush Sr. All, while not closing any military bases like Bush Sr./Reagan, and not cutting military spending.
So, based on this; I have reason to believe that Obama will do the same.

Again, as I stated in my post. Compare the amount of entitlements to big business to social entitlements! I think you may be amazed. The bailout is one of the biggest joke of an entitlements to come along! Although, we pretty much give more than this all the time. Why doesn't anyone complain about the amount of corporate welfare that comes directly out of our tax dollars?

[dragonsdaddy]

Bill Clinton held true with his promise of not raising taxes to those who make under $180K per year with his budget from 1992, which brought us the greatest economic prosperity this nation has ever seen. Also, Bill Clinton cut Govt. spending more than Reagan and Bush Sr. All, while not closing any military bases like Bush Sr./Reagan, and not cutting military spending.
So, based on this; I have reason to believe that Obama will do the same.

Again, as I stated in my post. Compare the amount of entitlements to big business to social entitlements! I think you may be amazed. The bailout is one of the biggest joke of an entitlements to come along! Although, we pretty much give more than this all the time. Why doesn't anyone complain about the amount of corporate welfare that comes directly out of our tax dollars?
do you have any data to back up this preposterous bit of mis-information? i spent my whole military career serving thru dirty bill's terms, and we were closing bases on a regular schedule. and if what we were dealing with was an uncut budget, then everyone involved with the base/wing were lying.

[THE 300]

I am sitting here watching Tom Brokaw and David Letterman talk. It occurs to me, out of nowhere. "I'd vote for either one of these guys!":eek:

[Warbird]

You make perfect sense, and you're somewhat right, but you have to think real deep about this. Really think where that 8$ goes, and who gets it. When you understand this, you may be enlightened.

Actually, some of us (such as myself) are enlightened. I took AP Macroeconomics my senior year. I have a far and away superior grasp of this stuff than you do and I've yet to complete a single quarter at my college.

You act like stocks are piles of cash and when things go bad, somebody reaches in and grabs a fistful. That's utter lunacy and completely false. You'd be better off thinking of stocks and the economy as a car. When the car gets dinged, its value goes down. It's that simple.

[katyfan52]

I would suggest getting another quote

Ya think?? ;)

[FeeltheHaka]

do you have any data to back up this preposterous bit of mis-information? i spent my whole military career serving thru dirty bill's terms, and we were closing bases on a regular schedule. and if what we were dealing with was an uncut budget, then everyone involved with the base/wing were lying.

You can look up the data for yourself. Here is a link for starters:
http://www.lightparty.com/Economic/MilitarySpending.html I was also in the military from Bush Sr. to part of Clinton. The base closes were initiated by Bush. I'm surprised you didn't know this. It seemed people were grumbling about this all the time when I was in the military.
Another link:http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20000301faresponse35/lawrence-korb/money-for-nothing-a-penny-saved-not-a-penny-earned-in-the-u-s-military.html
Another link: http://www.cdi.org/dm/1997/issue3/

Yes, they were lying

[katyfan52]

When my water heater went out, I bought a new one at a cost of about $400, then for the sake of time, had one of these handyman services install it for another $150. Done for $550. Is there some special problem you have that you're dealing with?
Gas water heater. The guy who installed it apparently did not follow the building codes, should be on an 18 inch stand which means the inlet and outlet lines have to be moved up at least 8 inches, has a single wall vent pipe with two 90 degree turns instead of a double walled vent pipe with vented cap 18? inches above roof level, oh and the overflow was not piped to the outside. I found a water heater for around 400 including the installation kit. I would go your route, except the codes that need to be met are safety issues. On the other hand, it's been there like that since 1994. :ninja: I might go electric if I have to but that will mean running a 220 line from the farthest corner of the house and going up on the roof to cap off the vent. An electrician is coming tomorrow to give me an estimate on that option and I am also calling another installer. :eek::Censor::eek:

[Firebird]

There were base closures throughout both Bush I and Clinton and Bush II wanted to do some as well. You can find a long list of some of the major closures here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/brac.htm

This kind of stuff should surprise no one, as Bush/Clinton both governed during or immediately after the implosion of the Soviet Union and the (seeming) overnight disapperance of the only real existential threat to the United States. Pressure was on both of them to reap the benefits of the "peace dividend" and in some ways both of them and the second Bush failed to do enough reaping of that dividend. Although military spending continued at near Cold War levels we did not have a military ready to do the kind of fighting we now require of it.

It's really BS to bandy about accusations at either president for things like base closures. If you want an effective military you have to have an adaptive military and a military designed to fight a massive land/air war in Eurasia does not look the same as a military designed to put out regional conflicts in nasty corners of the globe. Even if you kept spending at the exact level year to year, there would be base closings and reallocation of funds to deal with new threats. Part of the reason that effective defense cuts did not happen and reform of our defense structure lurched from place to place without a real directions is because the military suddenly found itself in search of a mission round about 1991. Both Bushes and Clinton wanted to trim military spending but had trouble making decisions about where, exactly, those cuts should come.

Cutting military spending is not, ipso facto, a bad thing. Every dollar spent there is a dollar not being spent on things designed not to blow up. If you can achieve effective national defense at a more reasonable cost, there is no reason not to jump at the opportunity to do so and for most of American history, we did jump at those opportunities. However, there are powerful interests at work across the political spectrum that want to convince the American public that a single cent of reduced military spending leaves America weaker and more unsecure. A great World War II Republican General had some words to say about the dangers of swallowing the lines coming from those interests a long time ago, but nowadays anyone who dares to bring that up is instantly labeled an American hating hippie.:(

[katyfan52]

Oh come on, just go get you a water heater from HD and you and I can put it in. Got a wrench and a hammer? ;)
Hmmmmm........you don't think we'd need OB's help. :D Seriously I want to know more about the safety concerns before I throw caution to the wind. I'll let you know what happens. Maybe I'll take you up on your offer. :notworthy

[chhspantherfan]

Actually, some of us (such as myself) are enlightened. I took AP Macroeconomics my senior year. I have a far and away superior grasp of this stuff than you do and I've yet to complete a single quarter at my college.

You act like stocks are piles of cash and when things go bad, somebody reaches in and grabs a fistful. That's utter lunacy and completely false. You'd be better off thinking of stocks and the economy as a car. When the car gets dinged, its value goes down. It's that simple.

Boy, that's what I want. My investments and the economy to be depreciating assets, just like my car:rolleyes:

[slorch]

Bill Clinton held true with his promise of not raising taxes to those who make under $180K per year with his budget from 1992, which brought us the greatest economic prosperity this nation has ever seen. Also, Bill Clinton cut Govt. spending more than Reagan and Bush Sr. All, while not closing any military bases like Bush Sr./Reagan, and not cutting military spending.
So, based on this; I have reason to believe that Obama will do the same.

Again, as I stated in my post. Compare the amount of entitlements to big business to social entitlements! I think you may be amazed. The bailout is one of the biggest joke of an entitlements to come along! Although, we pretty much give more than this all the time. Why doesn't anyone complain about the amount of corporate welfare that comes directly out of our tax dollars?

because there is a measurable return on corporate subsidies- JOBS.

the biggest return we get on welfare is more welfare recipients and less productivity...

[dragonsdaddy]

You can look up the data for yourself. Here is a link for starters:
http://www.lightparty.com/Economic/MilitarySpending.html I was also in the military from Bush Sr. to part of Clinton. The base closes were initiated by Bush. I'm surprised you didn't know this. It seemed people were grumbling about this all the time when I was in the military.
Another link:http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20000301faresponse35/lawrence-korb/money-for-nothing-a-penny-saved-not-a-penny-earned-in-the-u-s-military.html
Another link: http://www.cdi.org/dm/1997/issue3/

Yes, they were lying
so how exactly did clinton get credit for saving these bases he signed off on closing down? we have never had a more anti-military president than clinton. you are rewriting history. good luck with that i expect libs everywhere will be jumping on that bandwagon with you.

[dragonsdaddy]

There were base closures throughout both Bush I and Clinton and Bush II wanted to do some as well. You can find a long list of some of the major closures here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/brac.htm

This kind of stuff should surprise no one, as Bush/Clinton both governed during or immediately after the implosion of the Soviet Union and the (seeming) overnight disapperance of the only real existential threat to the United States. Pressure was on both of them to reap the benefits of the "peace dividend" and in some ways both of them and the second Bush failed to do enough reaping of that dividend. Although military spending continued at near Cold War levels we did not have a military ready to do the kind of fighting we now require of it.

It's really BS to bandy about accusations at either president for things like base closures. If you want an effective military you have to have an adaptive military and a military designed to fight a massive land/air war in Eurasia does not look the same as a military designed to put out regional conflicts in nasty corners of the globe. Even if you kept spending at the exact level year to year, there would be base closings and reallocation of funds to deal with new threats. Part of the reason that effective defense cuts did not happen and reform of our defense structure lurched from place to place without a real directions is because the military suddenly found itself in search of a mission round about 1991. Both Bushes and Clinton wanted to trim military spending but had trouble making decisions about where, exactly, those cuts should come.

Cutting military spending is not, ipso facto, a bad thing. Every dollar spent there is a dollar not being spent on things designed not to blow up. If you can achieve effective national defense at a more reasonable cost, there is no reason not to jump at the opportunity to do so and for most of American history, we did jump at those opportunities. However, there are powerful interests at work across the political spectrum that want to convince the American public that a single cent of reduced military spending leaves America weaker and more unsecure. A great World War II Republican General had some words to say about the dangers of swallowing the lines coming from those interests a long time ago, but nowadays anyone who dares to bring that up is instantly labeled an American hating hippie.:(
military need had little if any to do with which bases were closed. more omport were where these bases were located, and which senator lott wanted to keep(can you say meridian). the hoops every base on the list would jump thru were ridiculous, and it really didn't much matter. if your sen/representative was the wrong party, or wasn't high on the ranking committees, you were axed. i never denied that bush didn't start the brac, but to say that clinton didn't preside over anyis a bald face lie. there have been so many instances of political back-scratching causing fraud waste and abuse in military spending, it is considered situation normal.

[FeeltheHaka]

because there is a measurable return on corporate subsidies- JOBS.

the biggest return we get on welfare is more welfare recipients and less productivity...

A measureable return! Ha, Ha you are so funny! This is not wonderland! Why do you think we just had to bail out these jokers? Look how much these executives walk away with when their company fails! All on the backs of the workers (serfs, proletariat) and taxpayers. These fools get us twice. First, on the job; second, through corporate welfare. Most executive compensation packages come with free financial and accounting services that hide their monies. Measure that!

On the other hand, in theory; (notice I say, "in theory") Social welfare is supposed to create jobs, and turn one into a tax payer instead of tax burden.
No, I don't like rewarding laziness either, but the amount we send to corporate welfare is exponentially more than what goes for big business welfare. Why does this escape everyone? I challenge everyone to look this up on your own! Really dig deep. Really look at how much the Walmarts cost the taxpayer. Look at local area tax abatements. Look at the drain on city services that businesses cause on a local economy that recieve tax abatements, as opposed to what these businesses really bring in to the local economy. They bring in minimum wage jobs in which the workers use more social services due to low wages and no benefits whilst the executives get richer. Trickle up?

You guys are fed this whole crap about Supply side economics, trickle down theory all the while the rich are getting much richer. The sad part is, both parties are doing it. It just seems the Republican supporters buy in to it more, because the whole anti-abortion, pro-gun, evangelical thing is thrown in as a smoke screen while they **** all of us of our money even more.

[FeeltheHaka]

so how exactly did clinton get credit for saving these bases he signed off on closing down? we have never had a more anti-military president than clinton. you are rewriting history. good luck with that i expect libs everywhere will be jumping on that bandwagon with you.

I never gave Clinton credit for saving bases. I just answered your claim of me mis-informing on this post:

"do you have any data to back up this preposterous bit of mis-information? i spent my whole military career serving thru dirty bill's terms, and we were closing bases on a regular schedule. and if what we were dealing with was an uncut budget, then everyone involved with the base/wing were lying"

If anything, Clinton should have cut military spending. He still managed to balance the budget, and give the best economic prosperity ever; while shrinking the bloated Federal Govt. that was grown during the previous administrations. As you know being in the military, there is a ridculous amount of waste and fraud. I believe cutting this spending can lead to exposing this.

[mad_fan]

unless your clients are unwilling/unable to stomach the increases. i use the lactating bovine analogy again. any cow can give only so much milk. if you start trying to put too many mouths on each teat, or worse, whack off a few of them in your effort to spread the wealth, the upside down pyramid scheme comes tumbling down.

At the rate I turn people away...it's not a concern...
And as I've said...I can go underground...
And save plenty in taxes...if that were my concern...

[dragonsdaddy]

I never gave Clinton credit for saving bases." while not closing any military bases like Bush Sr./Reagan, and not cutting military spending." I just answered your claim of me mis-informing on this post:

"do you have any data to back up this preposterous bit of mis-information? i spent my whole military career serving thru dirty bill's terms, and we were closing bases on a regular schedule. and if what we were dealing with was an uncut budget, then everyone involved with the base/wing were lying"

If anything, Clinton should have cut military spending. He still managed to balance the budget, and give the best economic prosperity ever; while shrinking the bloated Federal Govt. that was grown during the previous administrations. As you know being in the military, there is a ridculous amount of waste and fraud. I believe cutting this spending can lead to exposing this.
huh. i guess i mis read your quote. explain how the inserted quote of yours is not crediting clinton, and of course it is dead wrong. maybe i simply misquoted you?

[Pearland 06]

Actually, some of us (such as myself) are enlightened. I took AP Macroeconomics my senior year. I have a far and away superior grasp of this stuff than you do and I've yet to complete a single quarter at my college.

You act like stocks are piles of cash and when things go bad, somebody reaches in and grabs a fistful. That's utter lunacy and completely false. You'd be better off thinking of stocks and the economy as a car. When the car gets dinged, its value goes down. It's that simple.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. A real AP class????? no way

AP classes were such a joke. Please tell me you didn't actually think high school was hard...

[RedRage00]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. A real AP class????? no way

AP classes were such a joke. Please tell me you didn't actually think high school was hard...

lmao. I thought the same thing, but I was being nice and didn't say anything.

[Pearland 06]

It's not the fact that he took an AP class that I was making fun of. I wish more people did, but he tried to use that as a substitute for experience in paying taxes and being active in the economy. Warbird, you have never had an impact on the economy, sorry. Taking a class cannot take the place of living life.

[FeeltheHaka]

huh. i guess i mis read your quote. explain how the inserted quote of yours is not crediting clinton, and of course it is dead wrong. maybe i simply misquoted you?

MY wording was not the best. He (Clinton) did not initiate any new base closings. The previous administrations initiated the base closings.

An aside: Closing bases was such a joke. I'm sure we can agree many military bases were unnecessary and antiquated. I do have a different perspective being a Marine. We do not have as many bases as the other branches, and our bases are well consolidated. But, the funny thing is that it cost so much money to close bases. The environmental cleanup, the haggling of the politicians trying to save bases in their voting boundaries, the transportation and moving, the theft, etc.

[FeeltheHaka]

I also took high school AP economics. Had a good teacher. Also, took several college courses under the economics agenda. Actually had a college economics professor have me convinced when I was college-aged that Supply-side trickle down economics was a good thing.
The best teacher of Economics to me has been life experience, and reality.
They can teach whatever they want to in the lab of a classroom, but nothing really accounts for true human nature.
I'm sure anyone above 40 can agree with me on this!

[Pearland 06]

I also took high school AP economics. Had a good teacher. Also, took several college courses under the economics agenda. Actually had a college economics professor have me convinced when I was college-aged that Supply-side trickle down economics was a good thing.
The best teacher of Economics to me has been life experience, and reality.
They can teach whatever they want to in the lab of a classroom, but nothing really accounts for true human nature.
I'm sure anyone above 40 can agree with me on this!

I'm 20 and you just emphasized what I said :D

[slorch]

I also took high school AP economics. Had a good teacher. Also, took several college courses under the economics agenda. Actually had a college economics professor have me convinced when I was college-aged that Supply-side trickle down economics was a good thing.
The best teacher of Economics to me has been life experience, and reality.
They can teach whatever they want to in the lab of a classroom, but nothing really accounts for true human nature.
I'm sure anyone above 40 can agree with me on this!

I'm still awaiting the comparison of the contribution of a 40 year welfare recipient versus the corporation that got a tax break that employs 100 people locally...

[dragonsdaddy]

I'm still awaiting the comparison of the contribution of a 40 year welfare recipient versus the corporation that got a tax break that employs 100 people locally...
when he gets the wording right on the mendacious qoute concerning the pro-military bill clinton, he'll get right on it.

[Firebird]

I'm still awaiting the comparison of the contribution of a 40 year welfare recipient versus the corporation that got a tax break that employs 100 people locally...

Whether I am subsidizing a janitor with a welfare check to get him up to a living wage....or indirectly subsidizing an employee at am ag or food giant through susbsidies....it's my tax money that is helping an economically non-competitive person survive. Since I like clean toilets just about as much as I do food, maybe I should do both.

[TulsaHale74]

when he gets the wording right on the mendacious qoute concerning the pro-military bill clinton, he'll get right on it.
Mendacious caught my attention - I thought the discussion was about hot women and Clinton. Alas, "mendacious" does not mean hot and "qoute" does not mean "cougar" or MILF or even younger women. Mendacious is a great sounding word regardless of it's true meaning.

[dragonsdaddy]

Mendacious caught my attention - I thought the discussion was about hot women and Clinton. Alas, "mendacious" does not mean hot and "qoute" does not mean "cougar" or MILF or even younger women. Mendacious is a great sounding word regardless of it's true meaning.
most people have only heard the word used in a single context- "cat on a hot tin roof". great movie, btw.

[FeeltheHaka]

I'm still awaiting the comparison of the contribution of a 40 year welfare recipient versus the corporation that got a tax break that employs 100 people locally...

Your wording is very slanted. But, I'll let you do the research. Reading some of your posts on this thread, I can tell you don't do much research.
Chances are the 40 year old welfare recipient works at the corporation making minimum wage with no benefits, including no type of retirement benefit. I'll let you figure that one out.

[FeeltheHaka]

when he gets the wording right on the mendacious qoute concerning the pro-military bill clinton, he'll get right on it.

Mendacious quote? You know mendacious means to lie. (I had to look it up)
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I meant, and I was big enough to clarify. Also, the links I gave explain my points even further. What more do you want?

[slorch]

Whether I am subsidizing a janitor with a welfare check to get him up to a living wage....or indirectly subsidizing an employee at am ag or food giant through susbsidies....it's my tax money that is helping an economically non-competitive person survive. Since I like clean toilets just about as much as I do food, maybe I should do both.

groovy.

I'm talking about the non-working folks that don't make any productive contribution in society.

janitors can get paid some coin, BTW...

[slorch]

Your wording is very slanted. But, I'll let you do the research. Reading some of your posts on this thread, I can tell you don't do much research.
Chances are the 40 year old welfare recipient works at the corporation making minimum wage with no benefits, including no type of retirement benefit. I'll let you figure that one out.

i work for one of those corporations. i can assure you there is no full time employee making anything remotely close to minimum wage. full time employees earn bennies and retirement( pension, 401k, and stock options) The turnover was so low that i ran vacations for 19 months at minimum pay, but in the process I became proficient at all of the jobs my boss was responsible for managing. many people would have never waited that long. 3 years later I became a manager. I wanted a better check, and did something about it.

while many people are hired on as part timers, it is beneficial to both parties. Another thing i can assure in my competitive industry- if you show the competency to produce and the willingness to bust your hump, you will receive full time responsibilities. The full time wage and benefits and retirement are the incentive to learn the job well and perform. When someone takes that full-time position, the company wins as does the employee.

It all comes full circle- an individual's pay is generally reflective of the amount of responsibility one is willing to shoulder, save for the super talented such as an athlete or actor. If you are making minimum wage, it's your own fault. if you're not employed- it's your fault. you may not ever have the perfect job or the exact wages that you think you are worth- but that is no reason to just throw your arms up and look to the Gov't.

I know I am in the minority, because of the idiot that just got elected that thinks the Gov't is the end-all be-all. i do have results that substantiate my philosophy.

[DragonWatcher]

There were base closures throughout both Bush I and Clinton and Bush II wanted to do some as well. You can find a long list of some of the major closures here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/brac.htm

This kind of stuff should surprise no one, as Bush/Clinton both governed during or immediately after the implosion of the Soviet Union and the (seeming) overnight disapperance of the only real existential threat to the United States. Pressure was on both of them to reap the benefits of the "peace dividend" and in some ways both of them and the second Bush failed to do enough reaping of that dividend. Although military spending continued at near Cold War levels we did not have a military ready to do the kind of fighting we now require of it.

It's really BS to bandy about accusations at either president for things like base closures. If you want an effective military you have to have an adaptive military and a military designed to fight a massive land/air war in Eurasia does not look the same as a military designed to put out regional conflicts in nasty corners of the globe. Even if you kept spending at the exact level year to year, there would be base closings and reallocation of funds to deal with new threats. Part of the reason that effective defense cuts did not happen and reform of our defense structure lurched from place to place without a real directions is because the military suddenly found itself in search of a mission round about 1991. Both Bushes and Clinton wanted to trim military spending but had trouble making decisions about where, exactly, those cuts should come.

Cutting military spending is not, ipso facto, a bad thing. Every dollar spent there is a dollar not being spent on things designed not to blow up. If you can achieve effective national defense at a more reasonable cost, there is no reason not to jump at the opportunity to do so and for most of American history, we did jump at those opportunities. However, there are powerful interests at work across the political spectrum that want to convince the American public that a single cent of reduced military spending leaves America weaker and more unsecure. A great World War II Republican General had some words to say about the dangers of swallowing the lines coming from those interests a long time ago, but nowadays anyone who dares to bring that up is instantly labeled an American hating hippie.:(

I liked Ike

[dragonsdaddy]

Mendacious quote? You know mendacious means to lie. (I had to look it up)
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I meant, and I was big enough to clarify. Also, the links I gave explain my points even further. What more do you want?yeah, i'm pretty much up to speed with every word i type, and it was dead on here. it was obvious by your quote that you were stating that clinton not only didn't close any bases,(huge lie) but may have tried to save them. you were manipulating the data to serve your agenda. clinton was the most anti-military president ever. to say he didn't cut military spending or "any" bases is a bald-faced lie, no matter how you spin it. i hope your hopes about big o are correct, but i wouldn't hold my breath, as he has already proven to have lied about the $250k.

[Warbird]

It's not the fact that he took an AP class that I was making fun of. I wish more people did, but he tried to use that as a substitute for experience in paying taxes and being active in the economy. Warbird, you have never had an impact on the economy, sorry. Taking a class cannot take the place of living life.

So? Somebody can pay taxes and have no idea how the system works. Just because I haven't paid into the system means I'm supposed to not understand it at as well? C'mon, man. I was poking fun at FTH's preposterous statements on stocks (the closest thing that one could possibly imagine he was referring to would be short selling stocks, but that performs the service of exposing bad stocks. While I'm glad he took those classes, we now see he learned nothing from his time in them) by pointing out that I barely have been educated on the system and I understand it better which seemed to go right over several peoples' heads. Maybe that's my fault for not properly labeling the sarcasm.

I also notice that FTH nor you had anything else to say about my post other than trying to discredit it by my inexperience working a job. My views aren't going to change when I get into the workforce, no matter how high my taxes get.

[katyfan52]

yeah, i'm pretty much up to speed with every word i type, and it was dead on here. it was obvious by your quote that you were stating that clinton not only didn't close any bases,(huge lie) but may have tried to save them. you were manipulating the data to serve your agenda. clinton was the most anti-military president ever. to say he didn't cut military spending or "any" bases is a bald-faced lie, no matter how you spin it. i hope your hopes about big o are correct, but i wouldn't hold my breath, as he has already proven to have lied about the $250k.
Source?

[mad_fan]

yeah, i'm pretty much up to speed with every word i type, and it was dead on here. it was obvious by your quote that you were stating that clinton not only didn't close any bases,(huge lie) but may have tried to save them. you were manipulating the data to serve your agenda. clinton was the most anti-military president ever. to say he didn't cut military spending or "any" bases is a bald-faced lie, no matter how you spin it. i hope your hopes about big o are correct, but i wouldn't hold my breath, as he has already proven to have lied about the $250k.

A blind man listening told me he's sounding more like there'll be LESS of a tax increase than even he wanted...because of the economy...

[FeeltheHaka]

yeah, i'm pretty much up to speed with every word i type, and it was dead on here. it was obvious by your quote that you were stating that clinton not only didn't close any bases,(huge lie) but may have tried to save them. you were manipulating the data to serve your agenda. clinton was the most anti-military president ever. to say he didn't cut military spending or "any" bases is a bald-faced lie, no matter how you spin it. i hope your hopes about big o are correct, but i wouldn't hold my breath, as he has already proven to have lied about the $250k.

Again, Clinton didn't close any bases. The bases were already scheduled to be closed before Clinton took office. They did continue while he was in office. Clinton increased military spending over Bush Sr. I gave you 3 legit non-partisan links showing this. Do you have any legit non-partisan links to show your agenda? Your gross generalization that Clinton is the most anti-military president ever is very inflammatory and untrue. Like I said, I was a Marine during part of Clinton's administration, and Bush Sr. Administration. What facts do you have to support that Clinton is the most anti-military President ever?
I challenge you to show me where Obama has lied about the 250k. Believe You/me; I have many Republican friends and family who be all over me like white on rice if it can be verified that Obama lied about the 250k!
I didn't vote for Obama by the way. I voted for Ralph Nader. But, I'll take Obama over supply side economics any day!

[Firebird]

I liked Ike

I still like him. It's too bad so very few do anymore.

[FeeltheHaka]

So? Somebody can pay taxes and have no idea how the system works. Just because I haven't paid into the system means I'm supposed to not understand it at as well? C'mon, man. I was poking fun at FTH's preposterous statements on stocks (the closest thing that one could possibly imagine he was referring to would be short selling stocks, but that performs the service of exposing bad stocks. While I'm glad he took those classes, we now see he learned nothing from his time in them) by pointing out that I barely have been educated on the system and I understand it better which seemed to go right over several peoples' heads. Maybe that's my fault for not properly labeling the sarcasm.

I also notice that FTH nor you had anything else to say about my post other than trying to discredit it by my inexperience working a job. My views aren't going to change when I get into the workforce, no matter how high my taxes get.

No, you need to really dig deep, and think about what I posted about stocks.
I can't do the thinking for you.

I am not going to change your mind. But, if it means anything; I did kind of think like you when I was your age!

In my post, I was defending what you stating in your post that you know more than me about economics because you took AP macroeconomics in high school. Really, I re-read your post and didn't see any sarcasm.

[Warbird]

No, you need to really dig deep, and think about what I posted about stocks.
I can't do the thinking for you.

You're being awfully cryptic. Who benefits when stocks go down. Honestly, tell me, I'm dying to know this.

I am not going to change your mind. But, if it means anything; I did kind of think like you when I was your age!

Shame when they peak early.

In my post, I was defending what you stating in your post that you know more than me about economics because you took AP macroeconomics in high school. Really, I re-read your post and didn't see any sarcasm.

In the future, I'll be sure to label it for you. :D

[katyfan52]

Cutting military spending is not, ipso facto, a bad thing. Every dollar spent there is a dollar not being spent on things designed not to blow up. If you can achieve effective national defense at a more reasonable cost, there is no reason not to jump at the opportunity to do so and for most of American history, we did jump at those opportunities. However, there are powerful interests at work across the political spectrum that want to convince the American public that a single cent of reduced military spending leaves America weaker and more unsecure. A great World War II Republican General had some words to say about the dangers of swallowing the lines coming from those interests a long time ago, but nowadays anyone who dares to bring that up is instantly labeled an American hating hippie.:(

I like Ike too. :)

http://www.truemajority.org/oreos/

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.


We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.


Ike (http://uspolitics.about.com/od/speeches/a/eisenhower_2.htm)

[Pearland 06]

You can short sell and make loads of money when the stocks are going down. Trust me, the people on wall street that know what they are doing are gonna be fine. It's the internet traders that are gonna lose money.

[HebronHawk]

For those who don't know what Short Selling is:

You sell shares you don't own yet at today's price and you commit to buy the shares at an unknown future price on a certain date.

As long as the market is going down. You will buy the shares later at a profit compared to the selling price you sold the shares you didn't own yet.

[mad_fan]

For those who don't know what Short Selling is:

You sell shares you don't own yet at today's price and you commit to buy the shares at an unknown future price on a certain date.

As long as the market is going down. You will buy the shares later at a profit compared to the selling price you sold the shares you didn't own yet.

...and the time to start looking into short selling...if you knew nothing about it...was October...of 2007...

[slorch]

...and the time to start looking into short selling...if you knew nothing about it...was October...of 2007...

eaxactly- only the chasers are into it now...

and they're road kill.

[DiamondJ2]

Solution for small business owners in the OB era:

Since the new President will go after small business, the owner of a 15 employee business knew that he would have to eliminate 4-6 jobs. They were a close knit group who have worked together for over 10 years. The owner was having a difficult time in deciding who he would have to let go. After spending days on the dilema, he came up with a solution as he pulled his vehicle into the employee parking lot. He looked at the cars of his empoyees and those that had Obama campaign stickers would be let go.

[JMSFan]

Solution for small business owners in the OB era:

Since the new President will go after small business, the owner of a 15 employee business knew that he would have to eliminate 4-6 jobs. They were a close knit group who have worked together for over 10 years. The owner was having a difficult time in deciding who he would have to let go. After spending days on the dilema, he came up with a solution as he pulled his vehicle into the employee parking lot. He looked at the cars of his empoyees and those that had Obama campaign stickers would be let go.

:notworthy:notworthy

[HebronHawk]

Solution for small business owners in the OB era:

Since the new President will go after small business, the owner of a 15 employee business knew that he would have to eliminate 4-6 jobs. They were a close knit group who have worked together for over 10 years. The owner was having a difficult time in deciding who he would have to let go. After spending days on the dilema, he came up with a solution as he pulled his vehicle into the employee parking lot. He looked at the cars of his empoyees and those that had Obama campaign stickers would be let go.

Sounds like a reasonable way to do it assuming he could find that many Obama supporters at his business actually working.

[dragonsdaddy]

Again, Clinton didn't close any bases. The bases were already scheduled to be closed before Clinton took office. They did continue while he was in office. Clinton increased military spending over Bush Sr. I gave you 3 legit non-partisan links showing this. Do you have any legit non-partisan links to show your agenda? Your gross generalization that Clinton is the most anti-military president ever is very inflammatory and untrue. Like I said, I was a Marine during part of Clinton's administration, and Bush Sr. Administration. What facts do you have to support that Clinton is the most anti-military President ever?
I challenge you to show me where Obama has lied about the 250k. Believe You/me; I have many Republican friends and family who be all over me like white on rice if it can be verified that Obama lied about the 250k!
I didn't vote for Obama by the way. I voted for Ralph Nader. But, I'll take Obama over supply side economics any day!according to this website he closed kelly and a cali logistic center, so technically you are right. congress couldn't trust clinton as per the site to do brac apolitically. what a shock. and as for the disrespect clinton showed the military, i can't find any objective measurements to prove same. all were too subjective to be trusted. tyhat doen't make it untrue, only unproveabl;e by objective means. and i have already posted bidin's quotes of lowering the tax break level to $150k. does he know something big o doesn't? like the truth.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/brac.htm

[dragonsdaddy]

Solution for small business owners in the OB era:

Since the new President will go after small business, the owner of a 15 employee business knew that he would have to eliminate 4-6 jobs. They were a close knit group who have worked together for over 10 years. The owner was having a difficult time in deciding who he would have to let go. After spending days on the dilema, he came up with a solution as he pulled his vehicle into the employee parking lot. He looked at the cars of his empoyees and those that had Obama campaign stickers would be let go.

lol. perfect solution. they should be happy to take up any slack this remarkable change hopes to bring about.

[4th and 1]

I am far from being rich, but what he is wanting to do will affect all of us. He wants to raise taxes on businesses, in the long run we all have our taxes raised because the businesses are going to have to raise prices to pay those taxes, so then we are having to pay more.

Wait till he gets through with the big oil companies. Enjoy these low gas prices before that increase is "passed on".

[mad_fan]

Wait till he gets through with the big oil companies. Enjoy these low gas prices before that increase is "passed on".

Big oil can simply split up...it's been done before...
The economies of scale are lost...and youd see slight increase due to that...
The smaller companies that emerge could make the same paltry margin as the big guys did...but it'll LOOK like less in absolute dollar terms...
American's are too stupid to realize the realities of big oil...

[mad_fan]

Solution for small business owners in the OB era:

Since the new President will go after small business, the owner of a 15 employee business knew that he would have to eliminate 4-6 jobs. They were a close knit group who have worked together for over 10 years. The owner was having a difficult time in deciding who he would have to let go. After spending days on the dilema, he came up with a solution as he pulled his vehicle into the employee parking lot. He looked at the cars of his empoyees and those that had Obama campaign stickers would be let go.

Im keeping the bumper sticker in the glovebox until I see how the redistribution thing works out...

[dragonsdaddy]

Im keeping the bumper sticker in the glovebox until I see how the redistribution thing works out...

the politboro knows intuitively and covertly what you possess and what you think, so who are you trying to fool?

[mad_fan]

the politboro knows intuitively and covertly what you possess and what you think, so who are you trying to fool?

The Canadian government has little interest in reporting assets of US citizens to the new government...;)

[dragonsdaddy]

The Canadian government has little interest in reporting assets of US citizens to the new government...;)
you underestimate the nwo, me thinks.

[mad_fan]

you underestimate the nwo, me thinks.

You give government TOO MUCH credit...;)

[GoOwls]

You give government TOO MUCH credit...;)

Government seems to give itself plenty of credit.....on our tab.....;)

[GoOwls]

Some absolute facts gleaned from 24 years on a business mail route and obesrvation of the last 6 months effects on the economy.

1. Small business owners are about 95% plus Republican/conservative.

2. They are because they know which party is more friendly to small business.

3. They are very scared right now....they were so before the election, they are moreso now that Obama is on his way in.

4. They have been scaling down their payroll and expenses since as eary as July in preperation of the failing economy.

5. They are scaling down more now due to the ever more scary economy and the impending Obama/Democrat rule of the Executive and Legislative branches of the govt.

6. I have one business that normally has 48 employees working 40 hour weeks that is down to 16 employees working 24 hour weeks, and the boss told me he will lose 4-6 more now that Obama in in so he can save money to run the business on next year....the business is not new, it's been around and successful since the 60's.

7. I have yet another business that has 18 employees normally that is down to 4 to 6, depending on the orders coming in.

8. I have another high tech business that has been around since 1985 that was so successful that the two owners got bought out for millions, and were given "lifetime" jobs with the company.........they normally have around 100 employees....they had 40 as of election day....the owners did an assessment of their future the day after the election and gave 10 people their walking papers on Thursday, including the two founders of the company and their "lifetime" jobs.....I was told that there would be 5-10 more in the next month or two.

9. Another company that has been around since about 1975-80, that has about 40 employees is down to 20 and they close on Fridays with only the 4 office staff people working.

10. Anyone who thinks business isn't taking note of the Obama election and is preparing for the worst knows about as much about business as Obama voters know about what he says as opposed to what his voting record speaks volumes about.

[dragonsdaddy]

Some absolute facts gleaned from 24 years on a business mail route and obesrvation of the last 6 months effects on the economy.

1. Small business owners are about 95% plus Republican/conservative.

2. They are because they know which party is more friendly to small business.

3. They are very scared right now....they were so before the election, they are moreso now that Obama is on his way in.

4. They have been scaling down their payroll and expenses since as eary as July in preperation of the failing economy.

5. They are scaling down more now due to the ever more scary economy and the impending Obama/Democrat rule of the Executive and Legislative branches of the govt.

6. I have one business that normally has 48 employees working 40 hour weeks that is down to 16 employees working 24 hour weeks, and the boss told me he will lose 4-6 more now that Obama in in so he can save money to run the business on next year....the business is not new, it's been around and successful since the 60's.

7. I have yet another business that has 18 employees normally that is down to 4 to 6, depending on the orders coming in.

8. I have another high tech business that has been around since 1985 that was so successful that the two owners got bought out for millions, and were given "lifetime" jobs with the company.........they normally have around 100 employees....they had 40 as of election day....the owners did an assessment of their future the day after the election and gave 10 people their walking papers on Thursday, including the two founders of the company and their "lifetime" jobs.....I was told that there would be 5-10 more in the next month or two.

9. Another company that has been around since about 1975-80, that has about 40 employees is down to 20 and they close on Fridays with only the 4 office staff people working.

10. Anyone who thinks business isn't taking note of the Obama election and is preparing for the worst knows about as much about business as Obama voters know about what he says as opposed to what his voting record speaks volumes about.
how dare you throw cold water on the hoped for change when big o makes his mark? unfortunately big government can't create the jobs that make the country run. they can only man the watchdog/regulation bureaus, the military, the post office, and hugely expensive operations like nasa and powerplants. the days of make work projects like tva and cccc will never work when your labor pool is mainly welfare-crippled lay-abouts. can you imagine trying to get actual work from people who have been watching judge judy and such for 4 generations? these types are used to getting something for nothing, and that is a pretty effective debilitator.

[GoOwls]

how dare you throw cold water on the hoped for change when big o makes his mark? unfortunately big government can't create the jobs that make the country run. they can only man the watchdog/regulation bureaus, the military, the post office, and hugely expensive operations like nasa and powerplants. the days of make work projects like tva and cccc will never work when your labor pool is mainly welfare-crippled lay-abouts. can you imagine trying to get actual work from people who have been watching judge judy and such for 4 generations? these types are used to getting something for nothing, and that is a pretty effective debilitator.

They're even coming after us.....upper mamagement is taking steps to eliminate routes and "encourage" people to retire to cut payroll costs....they are making it so difficult to do your job that you want to leave just to get away from the madness.....A guy who has worked there for over 20 years just got a 7 day paper suspension just because he failed to use his scanner to make his office scan before leaving one day....it's about equal to you getting fired from the ER because you forgot and left your stethoscope in the breakroom......:eek: ;)

[mad_fan]

Government seems to give itself plenty of credit.....on our tab.....;)

Posted like a...government employee...:notworthy

[Firebird]

They're even coming after us.....upper mamagement is taking steps to eliminate routes and "encourage" people to retire to cut payroll costs....they are making it so difficult to do your job that you want to leave just to get away from the madness.....A guy who has worked there for over 20 years just got a 7 day paper suspension just because he failed to use his scanner to make his office scan before leaving one day....it's about equal to you getting fired from the ER because you forgot and left your stethoscope in the breakroom......:eek: ;)

So what you're saying is....government spending is getting reduced.;) Ain't that what John McCain was gonna do?

[EagleDude73]

Posted like a...government employee...:notworthy

I thought you worked for the government too.

[Firebird]

I thought you worked for the government too.

mad is in the private sector...a small business owner, too, if I'm not mistaken.

[EagleDude73]

mad is in the private sector...a small business owner, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Oops & Poops - My Bad Sorry mad_fan. IKE's had me off line for awhile. back for the PO's

[mad_fan]

I thought you worked for the government too.

You must have caught a couple of my more liberal posts...and ASSumed...;)
I was on the dole at a point...free food...free housing...and almost $20,000 a year to boot...
I also received free travel to vacation hot spots...Saudi Arabia...Kuwait...Oman...England (RAF Woodbridge)...South Korea (Kunsan AB)...and Guatemala...:D

[cougmantx]

Some absolute facts gleaned from 24 years on a business mail route and obesrvation of the last 6 months effects on the economy.

1. Small business owners are about 95% plus Republican/conservative.

2. They are because they know which party is more friendly to small business.

3. They are very scared right now....they were so before the election, they are moreso now that Obama is on his way in.

4. They have been scaling down their payroll and expenses since as eary as July in preperation of the failing economy.

5. They are scaling down more now due to the ever more scary economy and the impending Obama/Democrat rule of the Executive and Legislative branches of the govt.

6. I have one business that normally has 48 employees working 40 hour weeks that is down to 16 employees working 24 hour weeks, and the boss told me he will lose 4-6 more now that Obama in in so he can save money to run the business on next year....the business is not new, it's been around and successful since the 60's.

7. I have yet another business that has 18 employees normally that is down to 4 to 6, depending on the orders coming in.

8. I have another high tech business that has been around since 1985 that was so successful that the two owners got bought out for millions, and were given "lifetime" jobs with the company.........they normally have around 100 employees....they had 40 as of election day....the owners did an assessment of their future the day after the election and gave 10 people their walking papers on Thursday, including the two founders of the company and their "lifetime" jobs.....I was told that there would be 5-10 more in the next month or two.

9. Another company that has been around since about 1975-80, that has about 40 employees is down to 20 and they close on Fridays with only the 4 office staff people working.

10. Anyone who thinks business isn't taking note of the Obama election and is preparing for the worst knows about as much about business as Obama voters know about what he says as opposed to what his voting record speaks volumes about.

I am in my 50's, own my own buisness, make over 250K most years and I can tell you, Obama has nothing to do with small buisness laying people off. The current financial problems can be laid squarely at the feet of the radical wing of the republican party and a virtual looting of the currencies through a bogus financial instrument not understood by the supposed "smartest men in the room."

You will have bigger problems to worry about if our fiat currencies fail, which at this point could go either way.

Folks, we are in an extremely bad situation and I am not convienced the American people fully understand how bad it could be.

I hope Obama can manage our way through it. I had no confidence that Mc Cain could nor do I believe he even understands the ramifications for our country.

[pied]

I am in my 50's, own my own buisness, make over 250K most years and I can tell you, Obama has nothing to do with small buisness laying people off. The current financial problems can be laid squarely at the feet of the radical wing of the republican party and a virtual looting of the currencies through a bogus financial instrument not understood by the supposed "smartest men in the room."

You will have bigger problems to worry about if our fiat currencies fail, which at this point could go either way.

Folks, we are in an extremely bad situation and I am not convienced the American people fully understand how bad it could be.

I hope Obama can manage our way through it. I had no confidence that Mc Cain could nor do I believe he even understands the ramifications for our country.

5%er

[cougmantx]

5%er

Forgive me, I think this is a slam but I don't understand the meaning of it!

[pied]

Forgive me, I think this is a slam but I don't understand the meaning of it!

From GoOwls list:

1. Small business owners are about 95% plus Republican/conservative.




a$m folk call their fans who are not into their stuff 2%ers.


Since GoOwls has made the proclamation after years of extensive research that 95% of small business owners were Republicans, I was just referring to you as a 5%er.

[stevefoxsc]

mad is in the private sector...a small business owner, too, if I'm not mistaken.

PRIVATE SECTOR?!?!?!?!?!!!!!1111ONE11111ELEVEN!!!!!! Sounds top secret and cool!

Where can one join this private sector...

[maggiesdad1]

First and foremost - "I never got a job from a poor person"
Secondly - robbing Peter to pay Paul never has worked
Third - This may be a bit more difficult: Can you really dip into the deep end of the pool without effecting the rest of the pool?

Rather than talk taxes let's talk SPENDING CUTS, beginning with a cut in Congressional and Senatorial pay cuts...Then teachers getting performance pay based on students ability to pass a High School exit exam - not TAKS based...The only taxes we should be required to pay is a consumption tax with a 5% cap on property taxes...:eek:

[SV61]

First and foremost - "I never got a job from a poor person"
Secondly - robbing Peter to pay Paul never has worked
Third - This may be a bit more difficult: Can you really dip into the deep end of the pool without effecting the rest of the pool?

Rather than talk taxes let's talk SPENDING CUTS, beginning with a cut in Congressional and Senatorial pay cuts...Then teachers getting performance pay based on students ability to pass a High School exit exam - not TAKS based...The only taxes we should be required to pay is a consumption tax with a 5% cap on property taxes...:eek:

Spending CUTS are what I am about. We have too many people, starting at the top and working down, with their hand out, hoping the "government" will do this or do that, for them.

Hogwash. Instead of wondering if 700 Billion dollars is enough to get us out of our economic hole, why isn't anyone focusing on how to pay off what is already there, deficit wise?

I mean, if I ran my household like that, I would be livin in a cardboard box.

[Owl, Been there Done that]

I'm assuming all the angry people here make over $250K a year......I just have one thing to say:












Can you loan me something?

I'd also just like to point out
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aatlky_cH.tY&refer=home

2.2 trillion to the richest 1% in the land... that is double the amount of money spent on welfare since it was conceived.

Neo-cons aren't conservatives in the true sense of the word, they don't believe in a conservative interpretation of the constitution or limited government (see patriot act, fisa, net neutrality), neo-cons say they are against abortion to draw in the evangelical christian vote - but its pretty obvious that they don't give a **** either way... when is the last time you saw abortion legislation. Please for the love of god Obama don't take my money and give it to people who need it to eat, I'd rather pay for corporate spa days for AIG executives.

[Dawg Fan]

I'd also just like to point out
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aatlky_cH.tY&refer=home

2.2 trillion to the richest 1% in the land... that is double the amount of money spent on welfare since it was conceived.

Neo-cons aren't conservatives in the true sense of the word, they don't believe in a conservative interpretation of the constitution or limited government (see patriot act, fisa, net neutrality), neo-cons say they are against abortion to draw in the evangelical christian vote - but its pretty obvious that they don't give a **** either way... when is the last time you saw abortion legislation. Please for the love of god Obama don't take my money and give it to people who need it to eat, I'd rather pay for corporate spa days for AIG executives.

Please Obama, just take his money:rolleyes:

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Please Obama, just take his money:rolleyes:

rofl, like we aren't already being taxed? Sure take a few more bucks out I'll have one less beer on the weekends.

I don't mind paying more in taxes if it means there is someone in the white house who can pronounce nuclear.

[SV61]

rofl, like we aren't already being taxed? Sure take a few more bucks out I'll have one less beer on the weekends.

I don't mind paying more in taxes if it means there is someone in the white house who can pronounce nuclear.

Man, you're easy to please.

Just send your "extra" tax money to me, and I will make sure that it is spent properly.

How's that?

;)

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Man, you're easy to please.

Just send your tax money to me, and I will make sure that it is spent properly.

How's that?

;)

blank check to the first person to remove the patriot act.

[JMSFan]

blank check to the first person to remove the patriot act.


Send the check to me and I promise to remove the patriot act. ;)

no, seriously, send me the check.:rolleyes:

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Send the check to me and I promise to remove the patriot act. ;)

no, seriously, send me the check.:rolleyes:

otw.

[JMSFan]

otw.

Aw man, I promised. Dont you trust me?

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Aw man, I promised. Dont you trust me?

the check is otw = on the way.

[JMSFan]

the check is otw = on the way.

Oh, ok. My bad. :D

patriot act = gone.

[Pinion]

Nothing wrong with the patriot act. Leave it alone.

[JMSFan]

Nothing wrong with the patriot act. Leave it alone.

I wasnt gonna mess with it. Just pandering to get people to send me money. (campaign contributions)

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Nothing wrong with the patriot act. Leave it alone.

A true big government loving neo-con.

[Pinion]

A true big government loving neo-con.


Not at all. I'm just a realist. Sometime the necessary precautions are not pleasant at all. But most of the time they are completely necessary to protect the people.

Big government and neo-con cannot be in the same sentence. Big government is liberal fantasy in case you werent aware. It appears as though you werent.

Me a neo-con. No sir. Not me. Not in the least. I'm much more hardcore than your run of the mill conservative.

[Owl, Been there Done that]

Not at all. I'm just a realist. Sometime the necessary precautions are not pleasant at all. But most of the time they are completely necessary to protect the people.

Big government and neo-con cannot be in the same sentence. Big government is liberal fantasy in case you werent aware. It appears as though you werent.

Me a neo-con. No sir. Not me. Not in the least. I'm much more hardcore than your run of the mill conservative.

apparently you didn't know that the neo-con agenda is far more "BIG GOVERNMENT" than the liberal agenda.

To be honest IDGAF about the politics but I for one certainly didn't fall for the fear mongering ******** Bush used to burn the constitution. I only voted democrat because I know they are too spineless to take my guns away and smart enough to fix the economy. That broad Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent not a nation (anti-intellectualism might not bother you).

you kids just got trolled.

[LUFPAN]

I can't believe this thread is still alive.....

[Pinion]

apparently you didn't know that the neo-con agenda is far more "BIG GOVERNMENT" than the liberal agenda.

To be honest IDGAF about the politics but I for one certainly didn't fall for the fear mongering ******** Bush used to burn the constitution. I only voted democrat because I know they are too spineless to take my guns away and smart enough to fix the economy. That broad Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent not a nation (anti-intellectualism might not bother you).

you kids just got trolled.

It's becomes obvious that you dont know what you're talking about by your first line in the response. S'ok though. We can call it confused.

Your comments about Palin are amusing as well. More re-speak rhetoric from the left.

When the liberal/socialists can fix the economy I'll agree that they can. So far, they havent been able to fix nothing. Look at the nice things they've done since they took control of congress.
You think they cant take your guns... keep thinking that. If they choose to take (and I dont think they ever will) guns, they'll take 'em. And you may not like it, but you'll not like it without your weapons.

[Owl, Been there Done that]

It's becomes obvious that you dont know what you're talking about by your first line in the response. S'ok though. We can call it confused.

Your comments about Palin are amusing as well. More re-speak rhetoric from the left.

When the liberal/socialists can fix the economy I'll agree that they can. So far, they havent been able to fix nothing. Look at the nice things they've done since they took control of congress.
You think they cant take your guns... keep thinking that. If they choose to take (and I dont think they ever will) guns, they'll take 'em. And you may not like it, but you'll not like it without your weapons.

Interesting point, the 2 nations with the highest standard of living in the world are socialist. 1. Norway, 2. Sweden, 6. United States. Unfortunately Obama is not socialist. I'm sorry I don't watch fox news so I guess that relatively speaking everything else must be left.

[Pinion]

Interesting point, the 2 nations with the highest standard of living in the world are socialist. 1. Norway, 2. Sweden, 6. United States. Unfortunately Obama is not socialist. I'm sorry I don't watch fox news so I guess that relatively speaking everything else must be left.

We have that in common. Not watching Fox news.

Sweden. I have friends in Sweden. I dont care to have 60% of my earnings go to taxes. Sorry. I just dont feel like it should be my responsibility to take care of everyone else. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand. I pay my own way, not anyone elses. If I want to help people, that's my choice. It should not be forced on me by government.

Obama a socialist. I feel like he is. He's all but used the word to describe himself. We'll see over time how he really is though. I'm willing to give the man the same chance I've given every other POTUS since I've been old enough to think on my own. Time will tell on him.

[JMSFan]

apparently you didn't know that the neo-con agenda is far more "BIG GOVERNMENT" than the liberal agenda.

To be honest IDGAF about the politics but I for one certainly didn't fall for the fear mongering ******** Bush used to burn the constitution. I only voted democrat because I know they are too spineless to take my guns away and smart enough to fix the economy. That broad Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent not a nation (anti-intellectualism might not bother you).

you kids just got trolled.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
C'mon man, you really cant believe everything that you just typed.
If you do, I really feel sorry for you.
Send me money, I will solve all your problems, and the country's too. Maybe it is really this easy to become President. I can just pander and lie to most people just like you, get your contributions, and your votes, then when I get in office just do whatever I please.
Please donate to my campaign fund starting in Jan. I will accept all major credit cards.

[Dawg Fan]

rofl, like we aren't already being taxed? Sure take a few more bucks out I'll have one less beer on the weekends.

I don't mind paying more in taxes if it means there is someone in the white house who can pronounce nuclear.

you mean like Jimmy Carter?:rolleyes:

How is the view from the left wing?

Hey you can donate all the money you want to those who don't want to work, I am not interested in helping people be lazy and worthless. :rolleyes:

[Owl, Been there Done that]

you mean like Jimmy Carter?:rolleyes:

How is the view from the left wing?

Hey you can donate all the money you want to those who don't want to work, I am not interested in helping people be lazy and worthless. :rolleyes:

I consider myself an independent. Pro guns, pro death, anti stupidity, anti trickle-down economics, limited government, pure capitalism, that pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

[JMSFan]

I consider myself an independent. Pro guns, pro death, anti stupidity, anti trickle-down economics, limited government, pure capitalism, that pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

And you voted democrat?

[dragons08]

I consider myself an independent. Pro guns, pro death, anti stupidity, anti trickle-down economics, limited government, pure capitalism, that pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

Obviously not, you voted democratic.

[Firebird]

I consider myself an independent. Pro guns, pro death, anti stupidity, anti trickle-down economics, limited government, pure capitalism, that pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

The Republicans have two out of six.......

[mad_fan]

I consider myself an independent. Pro guns, pro death, anti stupidity, anti trickle-down economics, limited government, pure capitalism, that pretty much sums up my political beliefs.

...for what sized people???:confused:

[JMSFan]

The Republicans have two out of six.......

How many of the six are Obama's views?

[RedRage00]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
C'mon man, you really cant believe everything that you just typed.
If you do, I really feel sorry for you.
Send me money, I will solve all your problems, and the country's too. Maybe it is really this easy to become President. I can just pander and lie to most people just like you, get your contributions, and your votes, then when I get in office just do whatever I please.
Please donate to my campaign fund starting in Jan. I will accept all major credit cards.

Do you take Lone Star?