View Full Version : Pete Carroll wants a playoff
Add another coach to the growing number of people who are perplexed at the stupidity of the BCS. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3683034
There was also a poll on ESPN asking: "College football playoff or BCS Bowls" and there was 90% voting in favor of a playoff with not a single state even CLOSE.
LOS ANGELES -- Pete Carroll insists he doesn't understand how the BCS system works. He understands enough to know he doesn't like it one bit.
"I think it stinks. I don't think it's the way it should be," Carroll said concerning how college football crowns its champion. "But all we can do is keep talking about it."
And that's what the Southern California coach did Tuesday at his weekly meeting with reporters.
Carroll has expressed his displeasure over the years with the system, but things hit a new high for him over the weekend when the Trojans (7-1, 5-1 Pac-10) dropped from fifth to seventh in the BCS standings after they blanked Washington 56-0 for their third shutout in four games.
"I don't understand how the thing works, I don't really know," he said. "Maybe you guys will answer for it one of these days. Maybe you know and I don't. I'm sure you do.
"What is the criteria of the process? Is it to pick the team that has the best season, that has the season that you like the most and feel best about voting for? Or is it the best team at the end of the year, the team that would win a playoff system if you did have it?" he said.
One reality is pretty simple. USC trails three one-loss teams in the rankings -- Florida, Texas and Oklahoma -- despite averaging over 40 points per game and allowing only 7.1 points. That's because the Pac-10 is clearly weaker than the Big 12 or the Southeastern Conference this season, meaning the Trojans have a weaker schedule than those ranked higher. So they've got to win out and get a lot of help to reach the BCS title game.
The Big 12 has five teams ranked among the top 14 in this week's BCS standings and the SEC has four among the top 16. The Pac-10 has USC at No. 7, California at No. 21 and nobody else in the Top 25.
The Trojans play the Golden Bears (6-2, 4-1) on Saturday night at the Los Angeles Coliseum. Oregon State (5-3, 4-1), which upset USC 27-21 on Sept. 25, is the only Pac-10 team that controls its destiny in the conference race.
Carroll said all of his losses "live in infamy," but clearly, the Oregon State game ranks at or near the top.
"I've got a list of 'em that stay in the back of my mind, how they've affected our time, affected seasons, played a big part in it," he said. "That game's hanging. It's still hanging there. They got a lot out of it. We got hammered by our performance. It is what it is. It happened and it's truth and all that. It's still hanging there, obviously."
Carroll said the Pac-10 has been hurt this year by several injuries to quarterbacks.
"They've all just been hammered," he said. "The quarterback position is such a critical part, particularly in offenses that are so dedicated to throwing the football and moving it around and doing all the dynamic things that we do. I don't know, other conferences, you can look around, conferences that are maybe at the top of their game, check and see what's happening with their quarterbacks, see if that's been a factor. I bet it hasn't."
Asked if a team can properly be judged by the conference it plays in, Carroll replied: "I think you have to do the best you can. Can you properly? I don't know. Who can properly figure this thing out? It's so subjective, I don't know how you figure it out. That's why even presidential candidates want to see playoffs. Everybody wants to see 'em. Then we don't talk like this."
Carroll referred to Democrat Barack Obama's remarks of Monday night, when he said if there was one thing he could change in sports if given the opportunity, it would be for college football to pick a champion with a playoff system. The BCS chooses two teams to play for the title at season's end based on polls and computer rankings.
"I don't know how the computer thing works," Carroll said. "I don't get that part of it. I don't know how the computer knows how good another team is. I don't understand that. I don't know how they can evaluate who you're playing and stuff and all that.
"We should end our season with a championship game and a big party afterward. I don't have that nailed. The reason is you still are going to have to go to some type of an evaluation process to get to the final teams that would be part of the final tournament," he said.
Carroll suggested eight, as many before him have.
"You're still going to have some upset teams," he said. "But I think in taking eight teams, you're most likely not going to leave a team out of there that would win the whole thing. Could be. It could happen. So you're getting closer to it. Just three weeks later you can figure it out. Three games later, you can figure it out."
Carroll is also perplexed regarding who's in charge.
"The really interesting thing is, who is making these decisions? You guys can't even talk to the people that are calling the shots," he said. "You can talk to people that have opinions about it, who say they know somebody that might have a play in it, but we don't even know who this is. It's kind of like the Wizard of Oz -- somebody behind that screen there, but we don't know who it is.
noods
11-06-2008, 12:40 AM
So this talk has been going on for years now, and it seems like everyone (or at least a large majority) wants a playoff. But will it ever become more than just talk? If so, how long before the current system is revised and a playoff is added?
Slim-Rob
11-06-2008, 12:53 AM
screw him. Don't lose a game if you want to make it but don't ***** because you dropped 2 places beating a terrible team.
So this talk has been going on for years now, and it seems like everyone (or at least a large majority) wants a playoff. But will it ever become more than just talk? If so, how long before the current system is revised and a playoff is added?
There has always been talk but it wasn't so public and open as it is now. Bob Stoops, Pete Carroll, and Joe Paterno are all very very high profile coaches who have publicly commented against the BCS in the last week or so.
screw him. Don't lose a game if you want to make it but don't ***** because you dropped 2 places beating a terrible team.
I always hear this logic... but what happens when EVERYONE loses one game? Well if the "regular season is the playoff" does that mean everyone lost the playoff? How do you determine who is the best if Florida, Texas, Tech, Oklahoma/OSU, Penn State, Alabama, TCU/Utah, and USC all have 1-loss at the end of the season?!?! Who plays for the title?
If anyone can answer me this question I'll concede that the BCS works.
I'll gladly invite all the high profile coaches to start publicly bashing the BCS.
There was a poll today and 95% of America opposed the current system.
SLC93
11-06-2008, 09:42 AM
The problem with a Carroll, specifically, is that he has never been vocal on this issue before. As a result, his speaking out now does not carry the same weight as it would have had this been his belief all along. His biggest problem is losing to nobodies. Losses to Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA & Cal have prevented his program from getting back to it's former heights. You simply cannot have all that talent and drop games to teams like that without knowing in your heart that it kills any claim you have to a national title. He was fine with the system while winning/playing for titles for years in a row. He had no real beef when his team spit the bit in other years. The thing is this year's squad had alot of hype coming in. They were thought to be a serious #1 contender. They go and lose to a slightly better than average team, again, and now it's not fair. Perhaps it isn't. Perhaps you can argue about other one loss teams. Thing is, this year, most of these other one loss squads lost to a team that was, or is currently, in the top 10 when they played. On top of that their conference affiliation is much stronger. Carroll has not even one leg to stand on, as this argument applies to USC. If he ends up being a voice that helps us get a playofff, then I commend him. It's what is needed. I will not give him undue credit, however. He'll have to earn since he's so late to the party.
Slim-Rob
11-06-2008, 09:58 AM
There has always been talk but it wasn't so public and open as it is now. Bob Stoops, Pete Carroll, and Joe Paterno are all very very high profile coaches who have publicly commented against the BCS in the last week or so.
I always hear this logic... but what happens when EVERYONE loses one game? Well if the "regular season is the playoff" does that mean everyone lost the playoff? How do you determine who is the best if Florida, Texas, Tech, Oklahoma/OSU, Penn State, Alabama, TCU/Utah, and USC all have 1-loss at the end of the season?!?! Who plays for the title?
If anyone can answer me this question I'll concede that the BCS works.
I'll gladly invite all the high profile coaches to start publicly bashing the BCS.
There was a poll today and 95% of America opposed the current system.
I'm not saying it's a good system, It sucks *** no doubt.
But as a coach, if you know what it takes to get in, then thats what you need to get done. If you know it will be hard with 1 loss, don't lose. I know I know easier said than done, but still. Everyone knows there should be a playoff but how the hell would they organize it? Take the top 8? What if there are 10 1 loss teams? Then what do you do? It's an impossible situation, that's all there is to it.
Slim-Rob
11-06-2008, 10:00 AM
The problem with a Carroll, specifically, is that he has never been vocal on this issue before. As a result, his speaking out now does not carry the same weight as it would have had this been his belief all along. His biggest problem is losing to nobodies. Losses to Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA & Cal have prevented his program from getting back to it's former heights. You simply cannot have all that talent and drop games to teams like that without knowing in your heart that it kills any claim you have to a national title. He was fine with the system while winning/playing for titles for years in a row. He had no real beef when his team spit the bit in other years. The thing is this year's squad had alot of hype coming in. They were thought to be a serious #1 contender. They go and lose to a slightly better than average team, again, and now it's not fair. Perhaps it isn't. Perhaps you can argue about other one loss teams. Thing is, this year, most of these other one loss squads lost to a team that was, or is currently, in the top 10 when they played. On top of that their conference affiliation is much stronger. Carroll has not even one leg to stand on, as this argument applies to USC. If he ends up being a voice that helps us get a playofff, then I commend him. It's what is needed. I will not give him undue credit, however. He'll have to earn since he's so late to the party.
This.
The difference between UT (and a few others)and USC at this point is that UT lost to a very good team, USC not so much.
There has always been talk but it wasn't so public and open as it is now. Bob Stoops, Pete Carroll, and Joe Paterno are all very very high profile coaches who have publicly commented against the BCS in the last week or so.
There was a poll today and 95% of America opposed the current system.
Stoops is the devil, Carroll is going back to the NFL where there is a playoff, and Joe Pa can't even walk to get to the field.
Where is this 95% poll?
dragonsdaddy
11-06-2008, 10:58 AM
my main prez stated on mnf in front of God and berman that the one thing about sports he would change is a po system in d-1 football. get down with your bad self and make it so.
my main prez stated on mnf in front of God and berman that the one thing about sports he would change is a po system in d-1 football. get down with your bad self and make it so.
I heard him say that to... If its possible, then do it..
Stoops is the devil, Carroll is going back to the NFL where there is a playoff, and Joe Pa can't even walk to get to the field.
Where is this 95% poll?
It is unbelievably sad that a coach would just assume go back to the NFL than deal with the absolutely stupid system we have for determining a champion.
And here is the poll. 136,000 voters only 5% of whom like the current system.
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1594/bcspollml4.jpg
Couldn't be much more of a landslide than that.
I'm not saying it's a good system, It sucks *** no doubt.
But as a coach, if you know what it takes to get in, then thats what you need to get done. If you know it will be hard with 1 loss, don't lose. I know I know easier said than done, but still. Everyone knows there should be a playoff but how the hell would they organize it? Take the top 8? What if there are 10 1 loss teams? Then what do you do? It's an impossible situation, that's all there is to it.
How do you know what it takes to get in? Have to be undefeated? If you ask Auburn they'll tell you that just isn't enough. You don't always control your own destiny in the BCS even if you finish the season 13-0.
I wonder what Joe Paterno is thinking right now... his team is undefeated, he has done everything he can, and his players have done everything theycan but if the season was over right now he would get left out of the title. What does it take to get in every single year without a doubt? Being undefeated isn't the answer so what is it?
It is unbelievably sad that a coach would just assume go back to the NFL than deal with the absolutely stupid system we have for determining a champion.
And here is the poll. 136,000 voters only 5% of whom like the current system.
Couldn't be much more of a landslide than that.
Think it has more to do w/$$$ than the playoff system.
I saw that poll on iamanidiotwhohateseverythinggreataboutcollegefootb all.com. The result is not surprising.
How do you know what it takes to get in? Have to be undefeated? If you ask Auburn they'll tell you that just isn't enough. You don't always control your own destiny in the BCS even if you finish the season 13-0.
I wonder what Joe Paterno is thinking right now... his team is undefeated, he has done everything he can, and his players have done everything theycan but if the season was over right now he would get left out of the title. What does it take to get in every single year without a doubt? Being undefeated isn't the answer so what is it?
But the season isn't over right now.
Think it has more to do w/$$$ than the playoff system.
I saw that poll on iamanidiotwhohateseverythinggreataboutcollegefootb all.com. The result is not surprising.
I think it was iamanidiotwhoneedssomesortofartificialsystemtomake meinterestedincollegefootballandnotarealfan.com that got all the votes FOR the BCS.
Iamafanofcollegefootballandwouldliketoseeachampion crowned.com was the other 95%.
You and 5% of America can enjoy the BCS.
But the season isn't over right now.
The season WAS over in 2004. What do you tell to Auburn? "Better luck next year, try and achieve something MORE than perfection."
Tell me what it takes to get into the title game every single year. Tell me what the coaches look for to make 100% sure they get into the title game. What is it?
I think it was iamanidiotwhoneedssomesortofartificialsystemtomake meinterestedincollegefootballandnotarealfan.com that got all the votes FOR the BCS.
Iamafanofcollegefootballandwouldliketoseeachampion crowned.com was the other 95%.
You and 5% of America can enjoy the BCS.
And I'll let you get back to posting on the "Interesting article on the BCS title game" thread. You have already posted seven times.
And I'll let you get back to posting on the "Interesting article on the BCS title game" thread. You have already posted seven times.
Can you answer me that question please Mr. BCS proponent? I really would like to know so I can share it with the rest of the coaches in the nation.
Can you answer me that question please Mr. BCS proponent? I really would like to know so I can share it with the rest of the coaches in the nation.
Which question is that?
I'll give you $50 for Stoops' cell number. It will come in handy in October.
Which question is that?
I'll give you $50 for Stoops' cell number. It will come in handy in October.
Tell me what it takes to get into the title game every single year. Tell me what the coaches look for to make 100% sure they get into the title game. What is it?
Tell me what it takes to get into the title game every single year. Tell me what the coaches look for to make 100% sure they get into the title game. What is it?
The exact same as what would get you into a playoff.
The exact same as what would get you into a playoff.
That isn't an answer. Going undefeated and winning your conference will get you into an 8 team playoff. Can't say the same for the BCS.
I would really like to know. I think all the coaches in the nation would like to know too. Please tell me your secret.
That isn't an answer. Going undefeated and winning your conference will get you into an 8 team playoff. Can't say the same for the BCS.
I would really like to know. I think all the coaches in the nation would like to know too. Please tell me your secret.
Really?
How about Notre Dame? Navy? Where is Boise State right now? Undefeated leading their conference? What about Ball State?
The 8 team system you proposed would theoretically include a 10-2 Missouri and a 11-1 Texas team over a 12-1 Tech team if they lost in the title game.
Really?
How about Notre Dame? Navy? Where is Boise State right now? Undefeated leading their conference? What about Ball State?
The 8 team system you proposed would theoretically include a 10-2 Missouri and a 11-1 Texas team over a 12-1 Tech team if they lost in the title game.
Still haven't answered my question. Just beating around the bush because you know that there isn't an answer and if you can't answer that question then the system is broken.
And my system is flawed but only so that I can appease all the people wanting to "make the regular season count." Even as it stands, flawed, it is exponentially better than the current system.
Favpack
11-06-2008, 04:04 PM
my main prez stated on mnf in front of God and berman that the one thing about sports he would change is a po system in d-1 football. get down with your bad self and make it so.
Have faith - he will fix the BCS, MLB, MLH, NBA and maybe even the Olympics.
Still haven't answered my question. Just beating around the bush because you know that there isn't an answer and if you can't answer that question then the system is broken.
And my system is flawed but only so that I can appease all the people wanting to "make the regular season count." Even as it stands, flawed, it is exponentially better than the current system.
There is no answer I agree with that. It is, however the exact same with a playoff, so why change.
What is so wrong with having every game count? When does college basketball start?
Firebird
11-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Since when does anyone on this board give a :Censor: what Pete Carroll wants? He wants a 2005 NC, too, but that isn't happening either.
There is no answer I agree with that. It is, however the exact same with a playoff, so why change.
What is so wrong with having every game count? When does college basketball start?
What is so wrong with determining a national champion by letting teams play each other instead of sports writers raising their hands?
The TCU game tonight doesn't count for ANYTHING. The winner has absolutely no bearing on the BCS championship game or Texas but I'm still going to watch it because it is entertaining. I watch Dallas every single Sunday but if I used your logic I shouldn't be doing that because the games don't really count for anything because the "regular season is worthless." It is a wonder how they fill up those stadiums every Sunday.
And yet you still have not answered my question? As a coach of a college football team... what should I tell my players we need to accomplish so we can make the title game with absolute certainty? What goal do I set to make 100% sure????
If you want to compare basketball... would the regular season be more meaningful to you if they only selected 8 teams??
SLC93
11-06-2008, 04:41 PM
Since when does anyone on this board give a :Censor: what Pete Carroll wants? He wants a 2005 NC, too, but that isn't happening either.
:notworthy
What is so wrong with determining a national champion by letting teams play each other instead of sports writers raising their hands?
The TCU game tonight doesn't count for ANYTHING. The winner has absolutely no bearing on the BCS championship game or Texas but I'm still going to watch it because it is entertaining. I watch Dallas every single Sunday but if I used your logic I shouldn't be doing that because the games don't really count for anything because the "regular season is worthless." It is a wonder how they fill up those stadiums every Sunday.
And yet you still have not answered my question? As a coach of a college football team... what should I tell my players we need to accomplish so we can make the title game with absolute certainty? What goal do I set to make 100% sure????
Sure it does. If TCU loses, does that affect ou's perception/SOS? Down the line Tech's? Texas?
I don't say the regular season will be worthless, but certain games will be. Take last Saturday night. If we had a playoff season, what would the ramifications of losing that one?
Which of the three Dallas-New York Giants games really counted?
What about the New England game on the road for the last game in the Meadowlands? Would they have been better off forfeiting it, staying home and resting their starters getting ready for the post season?
The question you force to me to answer, I have. The answer is there is nothing you can tell them and it is the exact same answer that you would tell them in your scenario, so what's the point?
:notworthy
That was a good one.
Sure it does. If TCU loses, does that affect ou's perception/SOS? Down the line Tech's? Texas?
I don't say the regular season will be worthless, but certain games will be. Take last Saturday night. If we had a playoff season, what would the ramifications of losing that one?
Which of the three Dallas-New York Giants games really counted?
What about the New England game on the road for the last game in the Meadowlands? Would they have been better off forfeiting it, staying home and resting their starters getting ready for the post season?
The question you force to me to answer, I have. The answer is there is nothing you can tell them and it is the exact same answer that you would tell them in your scenario, so what's the point?
No. It doesn't. Might hurt their BCS numbers but that is about it.
The ramifications of a playoff would be... your chances of making the playoff dropped dramatically. Without winning the conference you have to be a very high ranked BCS team to get an at-large bid. With Florida, USC, Oklahoma, and OSU right behind them they might not even get in at all. There are definitely ramifications.
All of them. Which ones didn't count...?
Why would they have been better off forfeiting? I guess its too bad they didn't because even when they game might have actually been meaningless it was still entertaining because both teams played their *** off to try and win. Kind of makes your point worthless.
No, you haven't answered it. If I am coaching a school from a BCS conference I tell my players all they have to do is go undefeated, win their conference championship, and they are in the playoff. Can't say the same with the current system no matter what school you are from. Can tell the players to win all their games and win the conference championship but if enough sports writers don't raise their hands then could be left out anyways.
No. It doesn't. Might hurt their BCS numbers but that is about it.-How would you rank the teams to get into the playoffs?
The ramifications of a playoff would be... your chances of making the playoff dropped dramatically. Without winning the conference you have to be a very high ranked BCS team to get an at-large bid. With Florida, USC, Oklahoma, and OSU right behind them they might not even get in at all. There are definitely ramifications.-They dropped to #4. Let's say Texas/Florida got in, how is that any better than excluding USC/ou/OSU? You're simply dropping the bar. The conversation is the exact same.
All of them. Which ones didn't count...?-Dallas was 2-1 against NY. The two wins apparently are meaningless.
Why would they have been better off forfeiting? I guess its too bad they didn't because even when they game might have actually been meaningless it was still entertaining because both teams played their *** off to try and win. Kind of makes your point worthless.-New England was playing to be the first team to go 16-0. In hindsight, they might have been better off going 13-3 or even losing 6 like the Giants. If you paid to go see Indy the last game of the season, would you have been happy seeing Peyton riding the bench? Why would they sit him if the game were so important?
No, you haven't answered it. If I am coaching a school from a BCS conference I tell my players all they have to do is go undefeated, win their conference championship, and they are in the playoff. Can't say the same with the current system no matter what school you are from. Can tell the players to win all their games and win the conference championship but if enough sports writers don't raise their hands then could be left out anyways.
ACC
Big 12
Big East
Pac-10
SEC
Conf USA
Mountain West
Sunbelt
WAC
Notre Dame/Navy/Army
That is eight conferences and at least one big time Independent. Will you simply exclude ND? or just relegate some of the conferences? Which ones?
ACC
Big 12
Big East
Pac-10
SEC
Conf USA
Mountain West
Sunbelt
WAC
Notre Dame/Navy/Army
That is eight conferences and at least one big time Independent. Will you simply exclude ND? or just relegate some of the conferences? Which ones?
USC would likely win their conference so they would be in. If Tech won the Big XII Oklahoma would have 2 losses and wouldn't deserve to be in and the same goes for OSU. I'm dropping the bar to include more teams which will make it waaaaay less controversial. When you let 8 teams that include Texas, Tech, Florida, Alabama, USC, Georgia Tech, Penn State, and West Virginia decide it out on the field you aren't going to have too many people complaining especially when you compare it to our current system of picking two teams off that list, screwing everyone else, and letting them play.
How are the two wins meaningless? And again, the NFL is quite different. If each team in the Big XII played each other three times a season, CFB only had 32 teams, and they added an extra 3-4 games I could understand the comparison.
And how did Indy do in the playoffs? You take it easy the final game you don't play well in the playoffs. And my statement above can be placed here as well. Two completely different arenas.
And if it were up to me I'd make it 16 teams and include all of those conference + at-large bids but apparently that makes the regular season too meaningless :rolleyes:. You won't accept any sort of compromise what-so-ever outside of the current system that works every once in a while. Hell even a plus-1 was shot down...I wish someone could explain to me how THAT makes the season meaningless.
USC would likely win their conference so they would be in. If Tech won the Big XII Oklahoma would have 2 losses and wouldn't deserve to be in and the same goes for OSU. I'm dropping the bar to include more teams which will make it waaaaay less controversial. When you let 8 teams that include Texas, Tech, Florida, Alabama, USC, Georgia Tech, Penn State, and West Virginia decide it out on the field you aren't going to have too many people complaining especially when you compare it to our current system of picking two teams off that list, screwing everyone else, and letting them play.
.
Why West Virginia over Utah or Boise or one loss TCU or one loss BYU?
Today, WVU has losses to East Carolina and Colorado.
Boise/Utah are undefeated. TCU lost at ou and BYU at TCU.
Florida lost to Ole Miss.
drgnbkr
11-06-2008, 05:42 PM
The problem with a Carroll, specifically, is that he has never been vocal on this issue before. As a result, his speaking out now does not carry the same weight as it would have had this been his belief all along. His biggest problem is losing to nobodies. Losses to Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA & Cal have prevented his program from getting back to it's former heights. You simply cannot have all that talent and drop games to teams like that without knowing in your heart that it kills any claim you have to a national title. He was fine with the system while winning/playing for titles for years in a row. He had no real beef when his team spit the bit in other years. The thing is this year's squad had alot of hype coming in. They were thought to be a serious #1 contender. They go and lose to a slightly better than average team, again, and now it's not fair. Perhaps it isn't. Perhaps you can argue about other one loss teams. Thing is, this year, most of these other one loss squads lost to a team that was, or is currently, in the top 10 when they played. On top of that their conference affiliation is much stronger. Carroll has not even one leg to stand on, as this argument applies to USC. If he ends up being a voice that helps us get a playofff, then I commend him. It's what is needed. I will not give him undue credit, however. He'll have to earn since he's so late to the party.
Dang it...how did you know what I was thinking?
lonny23
11-06-2008, 06:29 PM
Have faith - he will fix the BCS, MLB, MLH, NBA and maybe even the Olympics.I'm sure he can. He helped fix the election.
I'm sure he can. He helped fix the election.
Easy there, we don't need this thread being assimilated.
lonny23
11-06-2008, 06:41 PM
I hate the BCS system, but I do have to say this. Generally, the 2 best teams end up playing for a title. When I say 2 best, I mean best by performance on the field of play.
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