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SLC
11-01-2008, 11:43 AM
Hey Dragon fans... There are alot of teams that are represented by their fans with a dedicated thread... And we are one of the greatest programs in the history of Texas, so I figured we should have our own as well. This isnt intended to replace the weekly game threads.. Its just a place for Dragon fans to come to.

While here feel free to discuss all things that are Carroll Dragons..ie.. players, coaches, future Dragons, plays, or whatever else..

Stuck_In_The_Middle
11-01-2008, 12:07 PM
Let me start by saying, in no way do I want to come into this thread as a "troll". I have a serious question regarding the Dragons legacy as it pertains to the young men playing presently and I would love to hear the opinions of all the greenbloods.

My question/comment is this: Protect the Tradition is an easy mantra to support and buy into when you have dominated for 8 years. The young men playing for the Dragons today have known nothing but winning and undefeated regular seasons. So how will the Lofty attitude of the Program and it's fans affect these kids? Once again, no disrespect, I would have a Lofty attitude as well given this program's history. I simply wonder how you as a parent/coach/fan convince these young men of the fact that they are included in great tradition given the previous example set by their predecessors as compared to the season they are having presently. 6-2 is nothing to be ashamed of in the world of 98% of the programs in Texas, but I fear that after so much dominance the kids have no reference of how to deal with this kind of adversity....if you can call adversity a 6-2 record.

I am very interested to see how Wasson and the Dragon Nation respond to this period in the Dynasty.

And by no means am I painting the Dragon's season as over. I reference the SA Judson team as one of those storied programs that had a horrible District record and yet still went on to make state a few years back.

I will sit back now and simply read this thread from here on out, just wanted to see what the fans think of the psychological affect this season is having on kids who have no experience of losing during the regular season.

SLC
11-01-2008, 12:13 PM
I will start it off, I think we have some great youth playing right now, that'll really help this team next season.. I'm not giving up on this season yet... rather I am thinking of positives to take from this odd season from Carroll..

I have watched this team closely as we all have and I think we have several factors going in to this slide were on right now..

We are having some coaching blunders, we have been hit by the injury bug, we have several inexperienced players playing this season, players are in position to make plays alot of times and just simply arent getting it done. We are seeing teams really play us hard, which we havent seen in a long time.. That MNW loss did more for the Texas teams psyche about beating us than it did against ours...

I'm not sure this late in the season we can do much for or defense, we may just have to strap on our belts a little tighter and just try to out score teams.. I mean hey, our offense can be our best defense..

drgnbkr
11-01-2008, 12:25 PM
I don't doubt these kids at all. Only time will tell if there is some sort of "decay" in the program. They played hard last night...maybe not smart at times, but the effort was there. They just got whipped...which is the first time since the Katy game in 03 that has happened. And we could argue all day if the Katy game was a whippin..I say it was because of the way they held the ball when it counted. MNW didn't whip the Dragons, Carroll was in it until the last play and outstatted the Bulls, Abilene wasn't a whippin, they won..but it wasn't a whippin. Coppell this year was a crazy double OT game that went their way at the end..no whippin... Last night was a whippin of the worst kind..Coach Wasson said it best on the radio post game show..."You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more." The story of this team is still to be written..they can take the easy way out and play out the year, or they can step up and prove that they still want it...time will tell.

15Adragon
11-01-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't doubt these kids at all. Only time will tell if there is some sort of "decay" in the program. They played hard last night...maybe not smart at times, but the effort was there. They just got whipped...which is the first time since the Katy game in 03 that has happened. And we could argue all day if the Katy game was a whippin..I say it was because of the way they held the ball when it counted. MNW didn't whip the Dragons, Carroll was in it until the last play and outstatted the Bulls, Abilene wasn't a whippin, they won..but it wasn't a whippin. Coppell this year was a crazy double OT game that went their way at the end..no whippin... Last night was a whippin of the worst kind..Coach Wasson said it best on the radio post game show..."You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more." The story of this team is still to be written..they can take the easy way out and play out the year, or they can step up and prove that they still want it...time will tell.

Lotta wisdom in that post. Time to suck it up and go, we're Dragons.

SLC
11-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Let me start by saying, in no way do I want to come into this thread as a "troll". I have a serious question regarding the Dragons legacy as it pertains to the young men playing presently and I would love to hear the opinions of all the greenbloods.

My question/comment is this: Protect the Tradition is an easy mantra to support and buy into when you have dominated for 8 years. The young men playing for the Dragons today have known nothing but winning and undefeated regular seasons. So how will the Lofty attitude of the Program and it's fans affect these kids? Once again, no disrespect, I would have a Lofty attitude as well given this program's history. I simply wonder how you as a parent/coach/fan convince these young men of the fact that they are included in great tradition given the previous example set by their predecessors as compared to the season they are having presently. 6-2 is nothing to be ashamed of in the world of 98% of the programs in Texas, but I fear that after so much dominance the kids have no reference of how to deal with this kind of adversity....if you can call adversity a 6-2 record.

I am very interested to see how Wasson and the Dragon Nation respond to this period in the Dynasty.

And by no means am I painting the Dragon's season as over. I reference the SA Judson team as one of those storied programs that had a horrible District record and yet still went on to make state a few years back.

I will sit back now and simply read this thread from here on out, just wanted to see what the fans think of the psychological affect this season is having on kids who have no experience of losing during the regular season.

I will say I dont think this group of Dragon kids are as affected by this seasons transgressions as teams of the past would have been.. By no means does that mean they are not affected by the losses, because every kid out there wants to win and tries to win and they hurt when they dont.. I just mean that, the previous Dragon teams would have been shocked to have this occur during those years and would have reacted much differently than this group.. This group is one of the youngest weve had, and they have had one of the worst things happen to them when you are young, they've had some injuries to key players... Leaders on this team... Senior leaders that arent easily replaced... I think in the long term sense, this team is fine and will use this season as sort of a growing pain type of season..

Let there be no doubt that the "Protecting The Tradition" is not just a saying or motto, it is a belief that goes to the very core of each and every player that dawns a Dragon jersey, and every student that attends classes, and every teacher that teaches, and cuts across all sports..not just the football program... It doesnt mean you wont lose games, or fail classes, or make mistakes.... It means much, much more than all that... And these kids are doing it everyday.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 12:40 PM
Itsssssssssss the sound of the Draggggggggggggoooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn

SLC
11-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't doubt these kids at all. Only time will tell if there is some sort of "decay" in the program. They played hard last night...maybe not smart at times, but the effort was there. They just got whipped...which is the first time since the Katy game in 03 that has happened. And we could argue all day if the Katy game was a whippin..I say it was because of the way they held the ball when it counted. MNW didn't whip the Dragons, Carroll was in it until the last play and outstatted the Bulls, Abilene wasn't a whippin, they won..but it wasn't a whippin. Coppell this year was a crazy double OT game that went their way at the end..no whippin... Last night was a whippin of the worst kind..Coach Wasson said it best on the radio post game show..."You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more." The story of this team is still to be written..they can take the easy way out and play out the year, or they can step up and prove that they still want it...time will tell.

I heard Hall say that after the game.. And I have heard him say several odd things after games... And this I consider one of them... While you can say he's right in alot of repsects... I will however disagree that these Carroll kids did not want it as much... Thats Hall putting it on the kids IMO... They got flat out beat...Thats it... Doesnt mean these kids didnt want it as much or more tha the Hebron kids... They just got beat.. Just say that next time coach.

SLCfan2407
11-01-2008, 01:04 PM
I heard Hall say that after the game.. And I have heard him say several odd things after games... And this I consider one of them... While you can say he's right in alot of repsects... I will however disagree that these Carroll kids did not want it as much... Thats Hall putting it on the kids IMO... They got flat out beat...Thats it... Doesnt mean these kids didnt want it as much or more tha the Hebron kids... They just got beat.. Just say that next time coach.

Agreed! Reminds me of the post game last year after Abilene putting it on the kids!

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:10 PM
Agreed! Reminds me of the post game last year after Abilene putting it on the kids!


Sure does... Sometimes I believe he doesnt really think before he says things.. I'm just thinking, what if these kids are listening after the game and they here him say that... I mean how do you know they didnt want it as much.. Did you ask them after the game and they said.. "no coach we didnt want it as much"... Seriously, just say you got beat in all facets of the game and leave it at that.

Sakatha
11-01-2008, 01:10 PM
I heard Hall say that after the game.. And I have heard him say several odd things after games... And this I consider one of them... While you can say he's right in alot of repsects... I will however disagree that these Carroll kids did not want it as much... Thats Hall putting it on the kids IMO... They got flat out beat...Thats it... Doesnt mean these kids didnt want it as much or more tha the Hebron kids... They just got beat.. Just say that next time coach.

I was actually not so upset by the comment. I think he's trying to do anything he can to light a fire under their collective arses at this point.

BTW - Hats of to 32. Cade Foster, imo, had no business playing last night. This game, the district title, isn't worth what could've happened to that knee. After 1 series, he sucked it up, strapped on the lid, and went out and busted his butt for 4 quarters... Showed some real heart.

~DnM

SLC13
11-01-2008, 01:16 PM
I don't doubt these kids at all. Only time will tell if there is some sort of "decay" in the program. They played hard last night...maybe not smart at times, but the effort was there. They just got whipped...which is the first time since the Katy game in 03 that has happened. And we could argue all day if the Katy game was a whippin..I say it was because of the way they held the ball when it counted. MNW didn't whip the Dragons, Carroll was in it until the last play and outstatted the Bulls, Abilene wasn't a whippin, they won..but it wasn't a whippin. Coppell this year was a crazy double OT game that went their way at the end..no whippin... Last night was a whippin of the worst kind..Coach Wasson said it best on the radio post game show..."You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more." The story of this team is still to be written..they can take the easy way out and play out the year, or they can step up and prove that they still want it...time will tell.

2001 Ennis PO game is the last time that I thought the Dragons really got whipped like this one.

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:16 PM
I was actually not so upset by the comment. I think he's trying to do anything he can to light a fire under their collective arses at this point.

BTW - Hats of to 32. Cade Foster, imo, had no business playing last night. This game, the district title, isn't worth what could've happened to that knee. After 1 series, he sucked it up, strapped on the lid, and went out and busted his butt for 4 quarters... Showed some real heart.

~DnM


If you want to light a fire just do it... Jump all in their butts in the locker room or whatever... I cant see that comment as lighting a fire...JMO..

Sakatha, you are correct.. You and I talked about Cade during the game and I wouldnt have let him play either... The kids health is of utmost importance, him playing didnt effect the final outcome of the game.. That being said.. There is a definate kudos to him for doing it...

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:18 PM
2001 Ennis PO game is the last time that I thought the Dragons really got whipped like this one.


I agree... This one, much like that Ennis game was a butt whipping...

drgnbkr
11-01-2008, 01:19 PM
I don't fault Coach Wasson for saying that either...I believe it is accurate. You have to really put out a tremendous amount of effort to wrap up and tackle. The Dragons did not wrap up and tackle well at all last night. Did anyone else feel like after about midway of the 3rd, we would be lucky to win? That's not a knock on the kids, just my honest assessment of how the game felt. We couldn't stop them. We couldn't move the ball consistently on offense in order to keep our defense off of the field. In my mind Hebron did want it more and it showed in their play.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 01:22 PM
I think what were are seeing is teams that have learned how to defend the spread and use the spread. Back in 2002-06, teams weren't used to it and we were highly successful because of it. Now, I think we still are successful, but not at the same frequency. At this point, with the 2 losses, what changes would you make, if any? Also, is there an scenario where we don't make the playoffs (loss to Lvill and FM over Coppell???)?

SLCfan2407
11-01-2008, 01:27 PM
I don't fault Coach Wasson for saying that either...I believe it is accurate. You have to really put out a tremendous amount of effort to wrap up and tackle. The Dragons did not wrap up and tackle well at all last night. Did anyone else feel like after about midway of the 3rd, we would be lucky to win? That's not a knock on the kids, just my honest assessment of how the game felt. We couldn't stop them. We couldn't move the ball consistently on offense in order to keep our defense off of the field. In my mind Hebron did want it more and it showed in their play.

Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.

drgnbkr
11-01-2008, 01:28 PM
I think what were are seeing is teams that have learned how to defend the spread and use the spread. Back in 2002-06, teams weren't used to it and we were highly successful because of it. Now, I think we still are successful, but not at the same frequency. At this point, with the 2 losses, what changes would you make, if any? Also, is there an scenario where we don't make the playoffs (loss to Lvill and FM over Coppell???)?

I guess we could miss if we lose and FM wins. I think that with all the good things our backup QB has done, we miss the accuracy that Padron brings in the passing game. That is essential in the spread and we have been blessed. Riley and Chase had the luxury of a lot of playing time prior to stepping up to the starting job. Piland just had time to find his helmet and get out there. I would love to see Piland worked into the game plan as a RB or WR when Kyle returns and I think you will see a return of our efficient offense. The defense is another challenge.

dragons08
11-01-2008, 01:29 PM
Itsssssssssss the sound of the Draggggggggggggoooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn


I do believe she does Draaaaaaggggggggggggggggonnnnnnnnnnnn ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss

SLC13
11-01-2008, 01:30 PM
I think what were are seeing is teams that have learned how to defend the spread and use the spread. Back in 2002-06, teams weren't used to it and we were highly successful because of it. Now, I think we still are successful, but not at the same frequency. At this point, with the 2 losses, what changes would you make, if any? Also, is there an scenario where we don't make the playoffs (loss to Lvill and FM over Coppell???)?

The only good news from last night.......It looks like we are in the PO's and likely will face CHHS in the 1st round.

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=38288&page=5

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't fault Coach Wasson for saying that either...I believe it is accurate. You have to really put out a tremendous amount of effort to wrap up and tackle. The Dragons did not wrap up and tackle well at all last night. Did anyone else feel like after about midway of the 3rd, we would be lucky to win? That's not a knock on the kids, just my honest assessment of how the game felt. We couldn't stop them. We couldn't move the ball consistently on offense in order to keep our defense off of the field. In my mind Hebron did want it more and it showed in their play.

If I were a coach I wouldnt have said it on radio whether I beieved it or not.. Thats what the locker room is for... And if you want to say something that has about the same meaning but sounds completely different then say we got out played, we got our butts whipped no excuses.. When you say the kids didnt want it as much, I personally think that sends the wrong message.. You could say "these kids really wanted to win tonite, but we got outplayed and have alot of work to do"... It just makes since to me...

And I saw kids trying to tackle all over the field last night, they were just simply pushed around and knocked of the ball and beaten.. Hebron took it to them simple as that.. Doesnt mean we couldnt have played better, but we got whipped.

Sakatha
11-01-2008, 01:30 PM
I guess we could miss if we lose and FM wins. I think that with all the good things our backup QB has done, we miss the accuracy that Padron brings in the passing game. That is essential in the spread and we have been blessed. Riley and Chase had the luxury of a lot of playing time prior to stepping up to the starting job. Piland just had time to find his helmet and get out there. I would love to see Piland worked into the game plan as a RB or WR when Kyle returns and I think you will see a return of our efficient offense. The defense is another challenge.

Or simply as a change of pace guy @ QB much like how RD was used.

~DnM

drgnbkr
11-01-2008, 01:31 PM
Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.

I definitely have not said our kids gave up. I'm saying that hebron appeared to want it more than our guys did. We got outplayed, outworked, out coached, and lost.

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:33 PM
I guess we could miss if we lose and FM wins. I think that with all the good things our backup QB has done, we miss the accuracy that Padron brings in the passing game. That is essential in the spread and we have been blessed. Riley and Chase had the luxury of a lot of playing time prior to stepping up to the starting job. Piland just had time to find his helmet and get out there. I would love to see Piland worked into the game plan as a RB or WR when Kyle returns and I think you will see a return of our efficient offense. The defense is another challenge.

That was so very evident to me as well... Lots of throws Kyle could made last night, and accuracy did appear to be an issue.

dragons08
11-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Or simply as a change of pace guy @ QB much like how RD was used.

~DnM

Ah, I remember that year. It was sometimes scary when he came in! Sometimes if it was a competitive game he'd come in an have a HUGE turnover, other times he'd march down field and score instantly. Definitely and exciting time to watch the dragons. For whatever reason I loved Greg McElroy. Probably had to do with his killer arm and how Dodge would let him just go crazy whippin that ball all over the field.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 01:36 PM
How's Kyle doing?

SLCfan2407
11-01-2008, 01:37 PM
I definitely have not said our kids gave up. I'm saying that hebron appeared to want it more than our guys did. We got outplayed, outworked, out coached, and lost.

You are right, gave up was a bad use of wordage..My apologies...I meant, with our coaches running the ball late in the game down 16 wth 2 timeouts left, I think our coaches gave up. Our coaches did not want it anymore. They should have continued to throw the ball IMO. I think our kids wanted it they just need the leadership to show their intensity and honestly the kids needed no fire to be lit...If you can not get hyped up for a game of that magnitude, well then you need to check into another sport or something.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 01:38 PM
I do believe she does Draaaaaaggggggggggggggggonnnnnnnnnnnn ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss

I'll have to listen closer.

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:43 PM
How's Kyle doing?

He appeared to me in good spirits considering the circumstances... He was still in a cast. He was showing his Senior leadership by talking to David all night. He has been in my prayers every night and I hope he gets back soon.

hollywood
11-01-2008, 01:43 PM
I will say I dont think this group of Dragon kids are as affected by this seasons transgressions as teams of the past would have been.. By no means does that mean they are not affected by the losses, because every kid out there wants to win and tries to win and they hurt when they dont.. I just mean that, the previous Dragon teams would have been shocked to have this occur during those years and would have reacted much differently than this group.. This group is one of the youngest weve had, and they have had one of the worst things happen to them when you are young, they've had some injuries to key players... Leaders on this team... Senior leaders that arent easily replaced... I think in the long term sense, this team is fine and will use this season as sort of a growing pain type of season..

Let there be no doubt that the "Protecting The Tradition" is not just a saying or motto, it is a belief that goes to the very core of each and every player that dawns a Dragon jersey, and every student that attends classes, and every teacher that teaches, and cuts across all sports..not just the football program... It doesnt mean you wont lose games, or fail classes, or make mistakes.... It means much, much more than all that... And these kids are doing it everyday.

You have your head on straight my friend. Working through adversity takes real character. It is great to have the expectation of excellence but what counts in life is the the ability to deal with adversity. Winners can do that. Leaders must do that. Nothing worth having comes easy. Yes success comes from preparation. I have no doubt that the Dragons success has been all about that. They have just been so good at times that they have made it look easy. I am pleased that you have stepped up in this critcial period of the Dragons history to refocus what that motta means or should mean. Well said.

Sakatha
11-01-2008, 01:43 PM
Ah, I remember that year. It was sometimes scary when he came in! Sometimes if it was a competitive game he'd come in an have a HUGE turnover, other times he'd march down field and score instantly. Definitely and exciting time to watch the dragons. For whatever reason I loved Greg McElroy. Probably had to do with his killer arm and how Dodge would let him just go crazy whippin that ball all over the field.

Remember the bubble screen against Grapevine?! :Censor::eek:

~DnM

HebronHawk
11-01-2008, 01:44 PM
If you want to light a fire just do it... Jump all in their butts in the locker room or whatever... I cant see that comment as lighting a fire...JMO..

Sakatha, you are correct.. You and I talked about Cade during the game and I wouldnt have let him play either... The kids health is of utmost importance, him playing didnt effect the final outcome of the game.. That being said.. There is a definate kudos to him for doing it...

His kicks were awesome. It certainly prevented the Hawks from any major returns except for the one.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 01:45 PM
His kicks were awesome. It certainly prevented the Hawks from any major returns except for the one.

But when you have 85 and 98 yard drives......

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:50 PM
You have your head on straight my friend. Working through adversity takes real character. It is great to have the expectation of excellence but what counts in life is the the ability to deal with adversity. Winners can do that. Leaders must do that. Nothing worth having comes easy. Yes success comes from preparation. I have no doubt that the Dragons success has been all about that. They have just been so good at times that they have made it look easy. I am pleased that you have stepped up in this critcial period of the Dragons history to refocus what that motta means or should mean. Well said.

Thanks hollywood.. Sometimes it just needs to be said... To many folks thinks it only pertains to the football team and that it means you wont lose games.. Those are incorrect... We were the Dragons when we were losing games in other classifications and we are still the Dragons win or lose...

SLC
11-01-2008, 01:52 PM
His kicks were awesome. It certainly prevented the Hawks from any major returns except for the one.


Yes.. and maybe kicking would have been better for him, instead of playing both positions.

toonman
11-01-2008, 01:56 PM
I don't fault Coach Wasson for saying that either...I believe it is accurate. You have to really put out a tremendous amount of effort to wrap up and tackle. The Dragons did not wrap up and tackle well at all last night. Did anyone else feel like after about midway of the 3rd, we would be lucky to win? That's not a knock on the kids, just my honest assessment of how the game felt. We couldn't stop them. We couldn't move the ball consistently on offense in order to keep our defense off of the field. In my mind Hebron did want it more and it showed in their play.

I now have one of those new PDA cell phones, so I tried making a post at half time, which I now know worked. My post said I that thought the Dragons were flat in the first half and I hoped for improvement in the second half.

The improvement did not materialize. Technique (tackling) and play calling falls firmly on the shoulders of the coaching staff and this is yet another game where Wasson and his coaching staff have been found wanting.

Coach Brazil knew exactly where the Carroll weaknesses are and scripted a game plan accordingly. I believe that Hebron was better prepared, executed better and Carroll was not operating with the same degree of preparation and execution. Hebron could almost covert 3rd and 4th Downs at will. The 3rd and 20 which gained 18 yards I think when Hebron was deep in their own half – that play should never have been possible.

We are seeing this in too many games. It looks as if the Dragons will play Heritage in the first round of the play-offs, which I fear will be one and done.

SLC13
11-01-2008, 02:03 PM
That was so very evident to me as well... Lots of throws Kyle could made last night, and accuracy did appear to be an issue.

Agree....Hebron really made a strong effort to keep DP in check last and our offensive brain trust just didn't adjust.

It seems like the coaches have gotten enamored with DP's running. 20 rushing attempts for your QB when it's clearly not working real well seems pretty high to me. Especially when your RB, who's having a great game, only gets 12 attempts. Also, it looked like the coaches don't trust DP to throw the ball downfield very often. Not very many called except in third down & long down situations when the defense is expecting it.

15Adragon
11-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.

I can understand the play calling being a little conservative with a new Qb and District title on the line. That is a real dilema for the coaches, but 20 carries is too many for a QB in this offense. Too much punishment for the trigger man. We were able to throw the ball down the field at times and it seems that we just went away from it and kept trying to throw short passes with bodies everywhere. The short middle was wide open all night with the safeties sitting 15 yards off the LOS. DP made some nice throws when they were called. He threw a nice pass in coverage to Popkin down the sideline, a couple to Rake over the middle and his best pass of the night was on a 3rd and long deep to Walker - all of these were over 20 yards ( and one that was dropped that would have been over 20 yards). The rest of the time we kept calling those QB sweeps and he was getting punished. DP did a nice job hanging on to the ball taking all of those shots. All that said we still had an opportunity to win this one in the 4th qtr - it was there for the taking. One big hit, turnover or stop and this one could have turned.

HebronHawk
11-01-2008, 02:09 PM
Agree....Hebron really made a strong effort to keep DP in check last and our offensive brain trust just didn't adjust.

It seems like the coaches have gotten enamored with DP's running. 20 rushing attempts for your QB when it's clearly not working real well seems pretty high to me. Especially when your RB, who's having a great game, only gets 12 attempts. Also, it looked like the coaches don't trust DP to throw the ball downfield very often. Not very many called except in third down & long down situations when the defense is expecting it.

DP did have an accuracy problem that was noticeable. Some throws were too low, even a couple that were caught but couldn't be advanced. Some were overthrown. As a runner, he was pretty good. If he didn't run at all, the Hawks could have concentrated on Ayers all night long.

15Adragon
11-01-2008, 02:14 PM
DP did have an accuracy problem that was noticeable. Some throws were too low, even a couple that were caught but couldn't be advanced. Some were overthrown. As a runner, he was pretty good. If he didn't run at all, the Hawks could have concentrated on Ayers all night long.

I think he was trying to minimize the int and protect the football. These things take time to develop. 430 yds of O and no turnovers is commendable. Game was decided by giving up that 98 yard drive with the game 30-28. D gets a stop there and forces a punt out of the end zone - game on.

mojo4life
11-01-2008, 02:18 PM
I truly can't believe that if Coppell beats flower mound next week, then Slake finishes 4rth out of six teams in district...glad you guys came back and beat Marcus or you guys could be on the verge of sitting at home.. Anyways the playoffs are a new season and D2 is a pretty good place to be this year. You guys will be fine.......

SLC13
11-01-2008, 02:20 PM
DP did have an accuracy problem that was noticeable. Some throws were too low, even a couple that were caught but couldn't be advanced. Some were overthrown. As a runner, he was pretty good. If he didn't run at all, the Hawks could have concentrated on Ayers all night long.

Nobody's saying don't run him at all, just 20+ times is too many if it's not working.

Maroondog
11-01-2008, 02:30 PM
In reading these posts it looks like some folks are asking questions and looking for answers that may never come.
I should start out by saying that I have the utmost respect for the SLC program and all thats been accomplished. Losing a couple of games doesn't mean much in the short term. The problem is when you have been on this unworldly run the past few years a loss or two looks like failure and people start looking for answers.
The only real answer is that things change. Dodge & his staff are gone. Wasson and his staff will be gone some day also. You could end up with better or worse coaches, who knows?
Maybe the talent level is off some, maybe the injury bug is more than can be overcome, maybe the opposition has now learned to defend the spread, maybe your opponents are simply better. My point is that change is the only constant and doesn't mean that the program is in a decline, but you have to face the fact that NOBODY wins them all.
Sorry to intrude on your thread but I believe the Tradition may be better protected than you realize. :)

c-lisle
11-01-2008, 02:57 PM
Hey Dragon fans... There are alot of teams that are represented by their fans with a dedicated thread... And we are one of the greatest programs in the history of Texas, so I figured we should have our own as well. This isnt intended to replace the weekly game threads.. Its just a place for Dragon fans to come to.

While here feel free to discuss all things that are Carroll Dragons..ie.. players, coaches, future Dragons, plays, or whatever else..

there was a time when your screen name was hard to argue with....seems you may want to consider changing it now

SLCbacker
11-01-2008, 03:56 PM
I don't doubt these kids at all. Only time will tell if there is some sort of "decay" in the program. They played hard last night...maybe not smart at times, but the effort was there. They just got whipped...which is the first time since the Katy game in 03 that has happened. And we could argue all day if the Katy game was a whippin..I say it was because of the way they held the ball when it counted. MNW didn't whip the Dragons, Carroll was in it until the last play and outstatted the Bulls, Abilene wasn't a whippin, they won..but it wasn't a whippin. Coppell this year was a crazy double OT game that went their way at the end..no whippin... Last night was a whippin of the worst kind..Coach Wasson said it best on the radio post game show..."You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more." The story of this team is still to be written..they can take the easy way out and play out the year, or they can step up and prove that they still want it...time will tell.

Very well said Bkr!....out manned, out coached, out prepared, out played.....an absolute whippin. I hope Coach Wasson will look into the mirror and say......"You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more."

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:01 PM
I think he was trying to minimize the int and protect the football. These things take time to develop. 430 yds of O and no turnovers is commendable. Game was decided by giving up that 98 yard drive with the game 30-28. D gets a stop there and forces a punt out of the end zone - game on.


I will definately take zero turnovers... And the output by Tommy was outstanding, David will get better with time... his throws were a little off last night... As Hawk stated there were many very low thrown balls... This is simply a practice issue and can be easily fixed, he just needs to have confidence in his throw and concentrate on accuracy...

dragonpants
11-01-2008, 05:03 PM
I have posted my thoughts on last nights game on other threads and about the state of the program.
What I find a little disturbing are the number of people that say teams know how to defend the spread better now.
We knew Marcus was going to run Hopkins between the tackles and could not stop it. We knew that the running game last night was going to continue until we stopped it, that never happened. No one knows what play we are going to run or who we are going to throw it to, run or pass.
These comments just make no sense to me. The offense is not the problem. Look at what Hebron did last night, run the same plays over and over and over and over............. we could not stop it.
Ok so I am talking about the game. Keep running Avers until they stop us or his legs fall off, mix in a some play action to keep them on their toes, not that complicated.

Our defense is in position and we cannot tackle?
That should happen once.
In terms of Hal's comments after the game, you are the damn coach, don't let your kids give up, if that is really your opinion.

I will be a bit redundant as I posted something similar but we need to energize this program. There is not the same attitude we are used to. That is simply the difference. That said it not easy to teach that and get it back. I thought we were there after the Marcus game but I was incorrect.
Still a lot of football to be played.
These kids are great, keep supporting them like we have and good things will happen.

dragons08
11-01-2008, 05:05 PM
Remember the bubble screen against Grapevine?! :Censor::eek:

~DnM

That was in their house early in the game and it was a pick six off RD right?

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:08 PM
In reading these posts it looks like some folks are asking questions and looking for answers that may never come.
I should start out by saying that I have the utmost respect for the SLC program and all thats been accomplished. Losing a couple of games doesn't mean much in the short term. The problem is when you have been on this unworldly run the past few years a loss or two looks like failure and people start looking for answers.
The only real answer is that things change. Dodge & his staff are gone. Wasson and his staff will be gone some day also. You could end up with better or worse coaches, who knows?
Maybe the talent level is off some, maybe the injury bug is more than can be overcome, maybe the opposition has now learned to defend the spread, maybe your opponents are simply better. My point is that change is the only constant and doesn't mean that the program is in a decline, but you have to face the fact that NOBODY wins them all.
Sorry to intrude on your thread but I believe the Tradition may be better protected than you realize. :)


Nobody is doubting the tradition...you wouldnt know this, but it goes FAR beyond a single game, or season, or football field.... The tradition is and will be fine.. This program and those players who put the Dragon uniform on are outstanding... The Dragons are the cream and they are down, but not out..

dragons08
11-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Nobody is doubting the tradition...you wouldnt know this, but it goes FAR beyond a single game, or season, or football field.... The tradition is and will be fine.. This program and those players who put the Dragon uniform on are outstanding... The Dragons are the cream and they are down, but not out..

Would you say the "Protect the Tradition" pertains to everything that is Southlake Carroll?

I'd like to say yes. Anybody in an extra-curricular activity is expected to represent Carroll in the best way possible. Always expected to be polite, respectful, and take care of things like that. Then of course winning. It seems in things I've been apart of and things I have heard, Carroll expresses RESPECT and REPRESENTING school and the city as a main focal point, and winning comes right after that.

Granted this is IMO...

15Adragon
11-01-2008, 05:14 PM
I have posted my thoughts on last nights game on other threads and about the state of the program.
What I find a little disturbing are the number of people that say teams know how to defend the spread better now.
We knew Marcus was going to run Hopkins between the tackles and could not stop it. We knew that the running game last night was going to continue until we stopped it, that never happened. No one knows what play we are going to run or who we are going to throw it to, run or pass.
These comments just make no sense to me. The offense is not the problem. Look at what Hebron did last night, run the same plays over and over and over and over............. we could not stop it.
Ok so I am talking about the game. Keep running Avers until they stop us or his legs fall off, mix in a some play action to keep them on their toes, not that complicated.

Our defense is in position and we cannot tackle?
That should happen once.
In terms of Hal's comments after the game, you are the damn coach, don't let your kids give up, if that is really your opinion.

I will be a bit redundant as I posted something similar but we need to energize this program. There is not the same attitude we are used to. That is simply the difference. That said it not easy to teach that and get it back. I thought we were there after the Marcus game but I was incorrect.
Still a lot of football to be played.
These kids are great, keep supporting them like we have and good things will happen.

These are 15/16/17/18 year old kids with their lives in front of them. They are good kids that have worked hard for years to step on the field as Dragons. YES, we should support them with the same passion that we support all of our Dragon teams! Thanks for the reminder Dpants. :)

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:20 PM
there was a time when your screen name was hard to argue with....seems you may want to consider changing it now

I let that one go... My feelings shouldnt matter to you as well as yours to me..

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:22 PM
Very well said Bkr!....out manned, out coached, out prepared, out played.....an absolute whippin. I hope Coach Wasson will look into the mirror and say......"You have to want it more than the other guy and Hebron wanted it more."


Indeed... Put it on yourself or find another way to say it... But he definately shares it as he is the head hancho.

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Would you say the "Protect the Tradition" pertains to everything that is Southlake Carroll?

I'd like to say yes. Anybody in an extra-curricular activity is expected to represent Carroll in the best way possible. Always expected to be polite, respectful, and take care of things like that. Then of course winning. It seems in things I've been apart of and things I have heard, Carroll expresses RESPECT and REPRESENTING school and the city as a main focal point, and winning comes right after that.

Granted this is IMO...

Absolutely 100%...

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:28 PM
I have posted my thoughts on last nights game on other threads and about the state of the program.
What I find a little disturbing are the number of people that say teams know how to defend the spread better now.
We knew Marcus was going to run Hopkins between the tackles and could not stop it. We knew that the running game last night was going to continue until we stopped it, that never happened. No one knows what play we are going to run or who we are going to throw it to, run or pass.
These comments just make no sense to me. The offense is not the problem. Look at what Hebron did last night, run the same plays over and over and over and over............. we could not stop it.
Ok so I am talking about the game. Keep running Avers until they stop us or his legs fall off, mix in a some play action to keep them on their toes, not that complicated.

Our defense is in position and we cannot tackle?
That should happen once.
In terms of Hal's comments after the game, you are the damn coach, don't let your kids give up, if that is really your opinion.

I will be a bit redundant as I posted something similar but we need to energize this program. There is not the same attitude we are used to. That is simply the difference. That said it not easy to teach that and get it back. I thought we were there after the Marcus game but I was incorrect.
Still a lot of football to be played.
These kids are great, keep supporting them like we have and good things will happen.

I agree dpants... We will be fine... We aint going no where... Were down, but not out..

ScottS
11-01-2008, 05:29 PM
I wish we were undefeated.

SLC
11-01-2008, 05:36 PM
I wish we were undefeated.

Well me to brother, me too..:cool:

LAHawk
11-01-2008, 06:31 PM
I haven't read all of the posts on this thread so I want to apologize first off if any of this is redundant.

As a Southlake outsider, one who has had respect for the Carroll program for a while now, let me just say you guys will be fine. How can you not respect a program that has multiple state titles and a record win streak. People might not like you, but they should respect your success.

I say you'll be fine because from what I've seen and heard for many years is that the Dragon nation is more than a team or a school, but a whole community. How many other towns or communities get behind just one school. Don't all elementary and middle schools display the Dragon mascot? It looks like from here your tradition will be protected just fine.

From what I saw looking at your roster, most of your players are underclassmen. With Piland, Avers, etc. you shoud be pretty good next year.

And you still only have two losses. You guys have been spoiled with your success, and rightfully so, mind you. But it's still only two losses. Talk to kids from RL Turner, Newman Smith, Sunset, Pasqual, etc. They would kill to have two WINS in a season. So yeah, two losses might not be Dragon like, but you need to put it in perspective.

So you might be taking your lumps now, but you'll be fine.

green day
11-01-2008, 07:05 PM
I'm taking a break from my 50th b-day fun here in Vegas with this,

in "The Miracle", Coach Brooks said it best- " The name on the front of your uniform better be a helluva lot more important than the name on the back!"

Words that can help us thru the play-offs, and daggummit, we've got alot of football left!

Trojan4653
11-01-2008, 07:53 PM
How long is Padron out?

Looks to me that injuries is as large a factor as anything. You guys have been fortunate over the years with that. Your program will prevail.:notworthy

Sakatha
11-01-2008, 08:05 PM
That was in their house early in the game and it was a pick six off RD right?

Yes, sir... Same game the Anthony Ford switched over to CB in and picked the Grapevine QB at the end to seal it.

~DnM

ftballin11
11-01-2008, 08:42 PM
Ok Dragon fans. 4 losses in 2 years, the two years also being a new coach. Coincidence or not?

Could this be a fall of one of the 3 elite programs.

I thought this season would be telling for which direction the program is headed. Its obvious not the way fans hoped for.

So SLC fans whats going on, please answer with your head not your heart.

Sakatha
11-01-2008, 08:52 PM
Ok Dragon fans. 4 losses in 2 years, the two years also being a new coach. Coincidence or not?

Could this be a fall of one of the 3 elite programs.

I thought this season would be telling for which direction the program is headed. Its obvious not the way fans hoped for.

So SLC fans whats going on, please answer with your head not your heart.

I don't think anyone REALLY knows. Anything can and will happen, it's football. That being said, Permian is alive and kickin', so I assume it's very possible to 'take a break'... ;)

~DnM

15Adragon
11-01-2008, 08:53 PM
Ok Dragon fans. 4 losses in 2 years, the two years also being a new coach. Coincidence or not?

Could this be a fall of one of the 3 elite programs.

I thought this season would be telling for which direction the program is headed. Its obvious not the way fans hoped for.

So SLC fans whats going on, please answer with your head not your heart.

Plenty of 'pinions already out there. We are resting and healing and will come back strong.

ftballin11
11-01-2008, 08:54 PM
I don't think anyone REALLY knows. Anything can and will happen, it's football. That being said, Permian is alive and kickin', so I assume it's very possible to 'take a break'... ;)

~DnM


Kinda they fell awhile back and are trying to start a new era of dominace.

dragonbuck
11-01-2008, 09:12 PM
I can understand the play calling being a little conservative with a new Qb and District title on the line. That is a real dilema for the coaches, but 20 carries is too many for a QB in this offense. Too much punishment for the trigger man. We were able to throw the ball down the field at times and it seems that we just went away from it and kept trying to throw short passes with bodies everywhere. The short middle was wide open all night with the safeties sitting 15 yards off the LOS. DP made some nice throws when they were called. He threw a nice pass in coverage to Popkin down the sideline, a couple to Rake over the middle and his best pass of the night was on a 3rd and long deep to Walker - all of these were over 20 yards ( and one that was dropped that would have been over 20 yards). The rest of the time we kept calling those QB sweeps and he was getting punished. DP did a nice job hanging on to the ball taking all of those shots. All that said we still had an opportunity to win this one in the 4th qtr - it was there for the taking. One big hit, turnover or stop and this one could have turned.


having DP run 20 times when you have a linebacker "spying" him all night was rediculous. I think it was #45 from Hebron that went wherever DP went. When DP ran down the line. #45 was shooting the C-G or G-T gap and getting DP behind the line. That is when we should have pitched to Tommy and let him do his stuff. Tommy should have had 20+ rushing attempts, not the otehr way around. Take what the D gives you, and it was clear they were taking away DP's running game. We did not take advantage of that IMHO>

DragonDad
11-01-2008, 09:46 PM
Ok Dragon fans. 4 losses in 2 years, the two years also being a new coach. Coincidence or not?

Could this be a fall of one of the 3 elite programs.

I thought this season would be telling for which direction the program is headed. Its obvious not the way fans hoped for.

So SLC fans whats going on, please answer with your head not your heart.

Someone said it earlier... 2 losses does not a crisis make. It is however cause for concern and in my opinion immediate corrective action. Southlake fans are not looking for a 'good team', they want and expect a dominant team/program. Any candidate who applied for the position when Dodge left understood that was the expectation and therefore shouldn't be surprised to take some heat for coming up short.

I believe the worst thing that could happen is for the fan base to accept 'good enough'. Once that happens, the program begins to decay into mediocrity.


Lets face it, people have been dancing around it, but it starts with the coaching staff. The coaches job is to take the raw talent, as it exists, and mold it into a successful program. I don't think Hal Wasson has it any tougher than other coaches, rather I think he has it better than other coaches in most ways that matter; the legacy, the fans, the pipeline.

...and right now it falls to Hal to do something about the defensive coaching. Tackling is poor, adjustments are not being made, preparation seems lacking and its been happening for several games. Does anyone disagree?

TheBigPeach
11-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I have a question, and some of you might think it's a little arogant of me.

How long does the Dragon Nation give Wasson to produce a championship? I know expectations are high and I just was wondering what everyone thought.

Also, Do you think Dodge would run this team better if he was still the coach?

DragonDad
11-01-2008, 10:17 PM
I have a question, and some of you might think it's a little arogant of me.

How long does the Dragon Nation give Wasson to produce a championship? I know expectations are high and I just was wondering what everyone thought.

Also, Do you think Dodge would run this team better if he was still the coach?

I think we need to focus on what's necessary to produce a championship team, and not on the consequences of falling short.

As for the Dodge question, at this point I would say without a doubt, yes.

SWMHebron
11-01-2008, 10:23 PM
I have a question, and some of you might think it's a little arogant of me.

How long does the Dragon Nation give Wasson to produce a championship? I know expectations are high and I just was wondering what everyone thought.

Also, Do you think Dodge would run this team better if he was still the coach?

Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.

ScottS
11-01-2008, 10:27 PM
Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.

Can we get beyond this ever? Things were working for Trinity at that point. If he converts the fake punt, the coach there is a genius and Trinity just takes a knee a few times.

DragonDad
11-01-2008, 10:30 PM
Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.

Ya... you guys Coulda woulda shoulda beat us.

SWMHebron
11-01-2008, 10:33 PM
Ya... you guys Coulda woulda shoulda beat us.

We did, or were you at a different game last night?

DragonDad
11-01-2008, 10:43 PM
We did, or were you at a different game last night?

My mistake, thought you were from Trinity.

SWMHebron
11-01-2008, 10:59 PM
Can we get beyond this ever? Things were working for Trinity at that point. If he converts the fake punt, the coach there is a genius and Trinity just takes a knee a few times.

Just an example of the volatility of HS football. SLC went from probable loss to state title.

TheBigPeach
11-02-2008, 12:22 AM
Can we get beyond this ever? Things were working for Trinity at that point. If he converts the fake punt, the coach there is a genius and Trinity just takes a knee a few times.

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, That was like..... 2 years ago right? lol!


Anyways, It seems to me that Wasson isn't as Intense as Dodge use to be. Well, hopfully SLC is still playing during Thanksgiving. Gotta come down and see all my buds play!

dragons08
11-02-2008, 01:03 AM
Wasson and his staff don't seem to stress fundamentals like wrapping up, bonehead penalties, turnovers, misreads, etc.

Lots of mistakes that never happened before are popping up all over.

Carroll may not always have best athletes or players, but they always were fundamentally sound and very focused and ran like a well oil machine. It seems like this machine is in dire need of an oil change and tuneup.

HebronHawk
11-02-2008, 06:49 AM
Wasson and his staff don't seem to stress fundamentals like wrapping up, bonehead penalties, turnovers, misreads, etc.

Lots of mistakes that never happened before are popping up all over.

Carroll may not always have best athletes or players, but they always were fundamentally sound and very focused and ran like a well oil machine. It seems like this machine is in dire need of an oil change and tuneup.

Hebron apologizes for taking Carroll for a ride and breaking the machine. :D

I hope that the warranty from Dodge is still in place.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

DrEdward
11-02-2008, 07:22 AM
Hebron apologizes for taking Carroll for a ride and breaking the machine. :D

I hope that the warranty from Dodge is still in place.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

As you should be. :D

toonman
11-02-2008, 07:42 AM
Below are my posts after the first game of the season for which I was denigrated. The writing was on the wall in that last week of August against Plano West.

QUOTE #1 : A very poor team beaten by a very ordinary team.

QUOTE #2 : It may have been a good game by Plano West standards, but today was not a good performance by Southlake Carroll standards. Apart from the scoreline, that was a very untypical Southlake Carroll team.

QUOTE #3 : I was there today, as I have been to most games over the last 6 years. Today’s game was nothing like the Dragons performances over the last 6 years. Today’s Southlake Carroll was just like the other 200 or so 5A teams in Texas, whereas over the last 6 years the Dragons have been a totally different class over and above all other teams in Texas.

This is not an 'I told you so', but the unfolding of the district play has really caught some people by surprise; but the signs were there in almost every game the Dragons have played this season.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 08:42 AM
Ok Dragon fans. 4 losses in 2 years, the two years also being a new coach. Coincidence or not?

Could this be a fall of one of the 3 elite programs.

I thought this season would be telling for which direction the program is headed. Its obvious not the way fans hoped for.

So SLC fans whats going on, please answer with your head not your heart.

I'd like to point out that when T.D. got to SLC he lost the first 3 games.

People need to stop hate'n on coach Wasson. I would venture to say that the players that Dodge had were head and shoulders better than the ones the Wasson has.

I think maybe people might need to recognize that.

Yes, the coaches create the game plans, and call the plays. But in the end the players are the ones that have to play the game and make the plays.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 08:45 AM
I have a question, and some of you might think it's a little arogant of me.

How long does the Dragon Nation give Wasson to produce a championship? I know expectations are high and I just was wondering what everyone thought.

Also, Do you think Dodge would run this team better if he was still the coach?


I am very close with TD and no I don't think he would be doing any better with this group of kids.

The TALENT is just not there!

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 08:57 AM
I heard Hall say that after the game.. And I have heard him say several odd things after games... And this I consider one of them... While you can say he's right in alot of repsects... I will however disagree that these Carroll kids did not want it as much... Thats Hall putting it on the kids IMO... They got flat out beat...Thats it... Doesnt mean these kids didnt want it as much or more tha the Hebron kids... They just got beat.. Just say that next time coach.

Wasson is the issue!

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:04 AM
Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.

Agreed. Coaching, not effort is the issue. It is not lack of senior leadership, it is lack of Coaching leadership, play calling, defensive schemes and kick coverage schemes!

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:09 AM
You have your head on straight my friend. Working through adversity takes real character. It is great to have the expectation of excellence but what counts in life is the the ability to deal with adversity. Winners can do that. Leaders must do that. Nothing worth having comes easy. Yes success comes from preparation. I have no doubt that the Dragons success has been all about that. They have just been so good at times that they have made it look easy. I am pleased that you have stepped up in this critcial period of the Dragons history to refocus what that motta means or should mean. Well said.

Agreed!

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:16 AM
In reading these posts it looks like some folks are asking questions and looking for answers that may never come.
I should start out by saying that I have the utmost respect for the SLC program and all thats been accomplished. Losing a couple of games doesn't mean much in the short term. The problem is when you have been on this unworldly run the past few years a loss or two looks like failure and people start looking for answers.
The only real answer is that things change. Dodge & his staff are gone. Wasson and his staff will be gone some day also. You could end up with better or worse coaches, who knows?
Maybe the talent level is off some, maybe the injury bug is more than can be overcome, maybe the opposition has now learned to defend the spread, maybe your opponents are simply better. My point is that change is the only constant and doesn't mean that the program is in a decline, but you have to face the fact that NOBODY wins them all.
Sorry to intrude on your thread but I believe the Tradition may be better protected than you realize. :)

Well said, but 22 or so games into the Wasson era sees him making too many coaching mistakes, saying the wrong things, and being out coached.

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:20 AM
These are 15/16/17/18 year old kids with their lives in front of them. They are good kids that have worked hard for years to step on the field as Dragons. YES, we should support them with the same passion that we support all of our Dragon teams! Thanks for the reminder Dpants. :)

Support for the kids will never waiver

DragonDad
11-02-2008, 09:21 AM
I am very close with TD and no I don't think he would be doing any better with this group of kids.

The TALENT is just not there!

So you have talked to Todd Dodge and he said the talent is not there and he would not do any better? Or are you expressing your opinion and throwing in the Todd Dodge thing to lend credibility to your statement.

Because I disagree somewhat. I don't think the talent pool is marginally worse. I don't think we have a Chase Daniels on the team, but we have alot of talent.

toonman
11-02-2008, 09:24 AM
I am very close with TD and no I don't think he would be doing any better with this group of kids.

The TALENT is just not there!

It has never been about the talent. It is coaching and organization. Every successful team is a product of coaching; just ask Celina, Brownwood, Permian, SV, Abilene, Hebron etc

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:25 AM
Someone said it earlier... 2 losses does not a crisis make. It is however cause for concern and in my opinion immediate corrective action. Southlake fans are not looking for a 'good team', they want and expect a dominant team/program. Any candidate who applied for the position when Dodge left understood that was the expectation and therefore shouldn't be surprised to take some heat for coming up short.

I believe the worst thing that could happen is for the fan base to accept 'good enough'. Once that happens, the program begins to decay into mediocrity.


Lets face it, people have been dancing around it, but it starts with the coaching staff. The coaches job is to take the raw talent, as it exists, and mold it into a successful program. I don't think Hal Wasson has it any tougher than other coaches, rather I think he has it better than other coaches in most ways that matter; the legacy, the fans, the pipeline.

...and right now it falls to Hal to do something about the defensive coaching. Tackling is poor, adjustments are not being made, preparation seems lacking and its been happening for several games. Does anyone disagree?

No disagreement here!

CKE
11-02-2008, 09:26 AM
Wasson and his staff don't seem to stress fundamentals like wrapping up, bonehead penalties, turnovers, misreads, etc.

Lots of mistakes that never happened before are popping up all over.

Carroll may not always have best athletes or players, but they always were fundamentally sound and very focused and ran like a well oil machine. It seems like this machine is in dire need of an oil change and tuneup.

21 people sent D1 from 2003 to 2007 was more than any other school during that time period...just thought I would point that out for you

toonman
11-02-2008, 09:28 AM
Agreed. Coaching, not effort is the issue. It is not lack of senior leadership, it is lack of Coaching leadership, play calling, defensive schemes and kick coverage schemes!

Agreed. Carroll teams of recent years were so well drilled that mistakes were few and far between; coupled with TD running the offense. TD could read a defense and more often than not call up the right play. The year’s team does not seem as prepared and the play calling is lacking.

CKE
11-02-2008, 09:29 AM
It has never been about the talent. It is coaching and organization. Every successful team is a product of coaching; just ask Celina, Brownwood, Permian, SV, Abilene, Hebron etc

I think it has been more about talent than anything else at SLC...just my opinion though

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 09:31 AM
Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.

I would add that Dodge said they reviewed 2 years of game film before the Trinity game and practiced that week against that exact fake punt!

crunked9
11-02-2008, 09:34 AM
So you have talked to Todd Dodge and he said the talent is not there and he would not do any better? Or are you expressing your opinion and throwing in the Todd Dodge thing to lend credibility to your statement.

Because I disagree somewhat. I don't think the talent pool is marginally worse. I don't think we have a Chase Daniels on the team, but we have alot of talent.

Looking at this team now....

How many player's on O could start on any of the other state championship teams?
I would say not a single one. That would be a good indication that the talent is down.

How many on D???

It is not hard to look on the field and see that the talent is down.

mojotrain
11-02-2008, 09:36 AM
I claim a right to post here because SLC thumped Permian.

In every program like the SLCs and the Planos a time comes when the talk turns to, will the head coach move on or not? Do you remeber the chats concering a idea that Dodge might consider moving on? Some thought, No way, some thought, perhaps. Before it happened, I added a comment on the topic, that if Dodge moved on, that regardless of who replace him, things would not be the same. Some of you thought the transition would be bumpless. It hasn't been. Even at this point your new coach could take you to the big game this year or next but the change has had a effect.

IMO, for sure it's not the kids and perhaps not the coach. Time will tell. I think by next years end you should be able to have a clear view of where the program is headed. The "Dodge" that was instilled in the kids is working it's way out of the program.

This did happen at Permian and it took about 5 or 6 years for the Mojo system to die. It took 9 years to rebuild it.(hopefully?)

But it was never the kids. If you indeed do have a problem it's not the kids.

worster70
11-02-2008, 09:37 AM
Just an outsiders opinion...

but SLC overall talent at the time TD was hired was unbelievable...from youth through sub-varsity . It set up the possibility for an incredible run..

That overall talent is still good but not truely dominant (especially after current Jrs graduate).

If you look @TDs record as HC @ Turner, Fossill Ridge & UNT it may indicate just how great the SLC talent was during that 6-7 yr period.

Im sure Fossill Ridge would love the have Wassen back (I believe his record was better than TD while there).

crunked9
11-02-2008, 09:37 AM
I'd also like to point out that TD never had a winning season till he got to SLC.

He lost his first three games at SLC. Was 19-10 after his first 2 season.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 09:40 AM
And then the talent came through, starting with the 2002 team.

Dragon-a-Load
11-02-2008, 09:47 AM
Agreed! Reminds me of the post game last year after Abilene putting it on the kids!

I thought Wasson threw the kids under the bus. 4 off-tackle right and off-tackle left quarterback draws from the 2 yard line in the fourth quarter against a line significantly larger than ours was the most descriptive four play set of the season: Our coaches do not keep the other defenses guessing; the other defenses know what plays we will run based on the look at the line; our coaches run a limited number of plays; and Hal Wasson blames the kids at the end of the game for just "not wanting it enough" If I could have gotten to him, I would have strangled him myself. Hal: sometimes it's not the kids. I'll tell you this, one immediately preceding coach would never have publicly placed blame for that, or any other loss, loss on the kids.

Marcus Fan
11-02-2008, 11:28 AM
From an independent observer You Dragon fans crack me up. Two losses and the sky is falling. Read your posts again and you should be ashamed of yourselves. From fire the coach, to the lack of talent,to bring back the old coach. My goodness give these coaches and kids a break.
Don't you think they are all playing their hearts out?
Don't you think the competition in the area is improved?
You wonder why you have a negative reputation in the area?
Your lofty expectations have brought a certain amount of arrogance and unrealistic thinking that you were going to dominate high school football forever.

Southlakehawk
11-02-2008, 11:37 AM
I thought Wasson threw the kids under the bus. 4 off-tackle right and off-tackle left quarterback draws from the 2 yard line in the fourth quarter against a line significantly larger than ours was the most descriptive four play set of the season: Our coaches do not keep the other defenses guessing; the other defenses know what plays we will run based on the look at the line; our coaches run a limited number of plays; and Hal Wasson blames the kids at the end of the game for just "not wanting it enough" If I could have gotten to him, I would have strangled him myself. Hal: sometimes it's not the kids. I'll tell you this, one immediately preceding coach would never have publicly placed blame for that, or any other loss, loss on the kids.

IMO---if you can't put the ball in the endzone after 4 cracks from the two, you don't deserve it win.

If you give up two 95+ yard drives in a game, you don't deserve to win.

Right now I think it comes down to this team does not tackle well on d. Hebron rushed for 484 yards. The week before they rushed for 157 vs. Lewisville.

Right now, whats disapointing to me is that the team is not improving when compared to how they performed at the beginning of the season. That Hebron team that took us to the woodshed lost to Mesquite who the Dragons handled fairly easy. Marcus, who could have defeated the Dragons, lost to Plano West who the Dragons handed fairly easily too.

ftballin11
11-02-2008, 11:42 AM
Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.


WHoa whoa whoa, Katy has crash? They are defending state champs. and over half the starters are underclassmen. They are far from done. I see a run like 97'-00' comin up. I assume you are referring to Katy's loss to woodlands Big deal they were blown out by lufkin in 03' and we all know how that turned out.

Katy wont fall until Joseph is no longer head coach.

15Adragon
11-02-2008, 11:50 AM
I am very close with TD and no I don't think he would be doing any better with this group of kids.

The TALENT is just not there!

A second hand word from TD, yes Senoirs and Juniors (ones who I came and spoke to and sold you on the program) you don't have the talent of previous Dragons...A load of bull. And thanks for putting us under the bus too coach.

Facts:
- QB was on his way to putting up huge numbers if protracted or 15 or 16 games
- 2 WR's that are putting up numbers that would play in any season, has Rake ever dropped a pass? ever?
- RB that averaged almost 20yd/carry in the Dist champ game, same for his #'s over 16 games
- Somebody has to be blocking
- 2 D1 DE's, solid young D, etc

Look, this is a different Dragon team. This team is nicked up and now their pride is dinged a little as well. All of those championship teams had a little good fortune with injuries, especially at the key positions like QB.
The run couldn't last forever, so lets move out from under the bus and prepare and play like Dragons and finish with our chins up.

DragonDad
11-02-2008, 12:26 PM
From an independent observer You Dragon fans crack me up. Two losses and the sky is falling. Read your posts again and you should be ashamed of yourselves. From fire the coach, to the lack of talent,to bring back the old coach. My goodness give these coaches and kids a break.
Don't you think they are all playing their hearts out?
Don't you think the competition in the area is improved?
You wonder why you have a negative reputation in the area?
Your lofty expectations have brought a certain amount of arrogance and unrealistic thinking that you were going to dominate high school football forever.

Go away. Not your thread. Don't let the door hit ya in the a$$ on the way out.

SLC
11-02-2008, 12:29 PM
Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

By SLC standards this is an off year. Every program goes up and down. Permian did. Katy has crashed. Welcome to reality. You will probably make playoffs, and ultimately what happens then is what matters.


There are so many inaccuracies within this statement that is also littered with bitterness.... I will leave it all alone..

I will just say that I intended this thread for Carroll fans, I didnt think folks would hijack it.. I dont mind if outsiders want to post here, but it mostly created for the Carroll family to have a place to discuss our program, instead of taking it to one of the weekly threads..

worster70
11-02-2008, 12:34 PM
I agree with you Dragondad..this is a SLC thread and you should be left alone to tear yourselves apart

DragonDad
11-02-2008, 12:43 PM
A second hand word from TD, yes Senoirs and Juniors (ones who I came and spoke to and sold you on the program) you don't have the talent of previous Dragons...A load of bull. And thanks for putting us under the bus too coach.



If I'm reading you right, you are misinterpreting. It has not been established that TD said those things. I specifically asked Crunked9 if TD said that and he avoided answering the question.

DragonDad
11-02-2008, 12:47 PM
I agree with you Dragondad..this is a SLC thread and you should be left alone to tear yourselves apart

That's what I'm talking about! :)

toonman
11-02-2008, 12:49 PM
Don't you think they are all playing their hearts out?YES
Don't you think the competition in the area is improved?NO
You wonder why you have a negative reputation in the area?NO

slcdragonfan
11-02-2008, 12:54 PM
Pretty obvious we don't like losing. but who does? This is now character time. I too am disappointed in the Hebron game. Why? I thought we needed to make a statement in that game, and believed we could. We didn't, for whatever reason. Hebron is who made the statement. I have never gone to a Dragon game and felt like the other team was better. Good to great, yes. But better? No. Last night I walked away believing the Hebron team was better. Again, for whatever reason.

What do we do about it?
1.) I agree that we kept running Piland when it was obvious it wasn't working. That is not Piland's fault.
2.) When we ran the little counter direction play we usually made good yards, using Hebron's speed against them. Why not use more misdirection, or am I just stupid and blind?
3.) We seem too predictable.
4.) What is wrong with our Rushing Defense? We have talked a bunch of issues,
5.) If you can't score when it is crunch time, inside the 10 (or whatever it was), then your offense has a problem.

If we do not address and fix the above problems, we will be one and out against CHHS. That is assuming we can beat Lewisville, they will be playing us for their season, much like TAM v UT last year. We have now come up against two teams (Coppell/Hebron) that have awaited playing and beating us for at least a year (see earlier post from Hebron fan), AND REALLY WANTED IT! CHHS has just as much incentive and more, and they will play their hearts out. See Texas Tech v UT for an example. :(
I will tell you, CHHS WILL beat us ( if we get the chance to play them, this is not a done deal folks) if we do not fix these problems. I think we still have the capability (and the talent by the way) to go all the way to state. To do it, we need every player and every Coach to put as much into it as I saw from Avers, Hoagland, Piland, Rake, Foster, our DE's, etc. (I don't mean to leave anyone out that put it all out there). We cannot play not to lose, we must play to win. (again, see TT v UT for an example).

We don't need to talk long-term solutions right now, we need to talk about what it will take to win the next game. Then the next one. Then the next one. Repeat.
I want to say one other thing (I know this is a rambling post, apologize). Look at Katy. Look at Lufkin vs the Woodlands. Katy started out looking pretty bad, but they have stuck with their program, focused on improvement, and done the best with what they have. We should take notes, Coaches, players, fans included. Lufkin...who picked Lufkin to beat The Woodlands? Anybody?....Still Waiting.....Point is, IT CAN BE DONE. The Dragons have no God-given birthright to playoff games, we have to earn it like everybody else. Protect the Tradition is not an inheritance. We have to earn it every year.

Let's go out and earn it. The season starts right. now.

Right. Now. We are 0-0.

And kiss my $#%@^ Coach Campo!

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 01:20 PM
[QUOTE=Dragon-a-Load;962865]I thought Wasson threw the kids under the bus. 4 off-tackle right and off-tackle left quarterback draws from the 2 yard line in the fourth quarter against a line significantly larger than ours was the most descriptive four play set of the season: Our coaches do not keep the other defenses guessing; the other defenses know what plays we will run based on the look at the line; our coaches run a limited number of plays; and Hal Wasson blames the kids at the end of the game for just "not wanting it enough" If I could have gotten to him, I would have strangled him myself. Hal: sometimes it's not the kids. I'll tell you this, one immediately preceding coach would never have publicly placed blame for that, or any other loss, loss on the kids.[/QUOTE


Agreed!

OakTreeUp-n-Out
11-02-2008, 01:21 PM
I keep seeing people trying to pinpoint this as one specific problem (coaching staff or talent). Football is such a dynamic game. An example of this is the injury situation with the DTs and Cade. You've got kids banged up, shifting to new positions, being taken away from the position they've played all year, etc., and all of a sudden the interior of your defense looks completely different than it did only a few weeks ago. This is all compounded by the fact that many of the kids filling in are JRs (albeit very talented ones). That extra year of mental toughness and weight room maturation is a big deal in 5A football. Some of these kids are very clearly talented, but an extra year would benefit some of them greatly from what I saw (televised replay)... not just physically, but understanding their role with the Xs and Os, making that split-second decision during a play, etc. There are always a few JRs sprinkled in, but at Carroll the standard has usually been to have SRs as the bulk of your lineup with JRs filling in the gaps, not the other way around. In the past there have been exceptions, but usually at least one side of the ball has been SR dominated and has held strong for the other group to get their feet wet. This year it seems like both sides of the ball are getting their feet wet at the same time. That's not an excuse, just a reality of 5A football.

With regards to coaching, it's so difficult for a fan to watch the game and determine if the problem is scheme or not. If a coach puts a kid in position to make a play and he has a mental gaffe and fills the wrong hole, it can bust everything. Particularly at linebacker, if a kid has a split second hesitation, he can get covered up and that's all she wrote. The fan wonders what's going on, and it's difficult to really know what happened unless you know the assignment. Pursuit angles, tackling fundamentals, gap assignment are things that can be taught but still have to be executed. The truth is that very few here really know on Friday nights if a kid blew an assignment or if the coaching staff really just got outworked. The tackling problem isn't just related to one specific things, there are lots of factors that go into that (caliber of ball carrier, fundamentals of defensive player, physical ability of defensive player, body positioning, etc.). It's tough to just label that a coaching issue and be done with it. Playcalling is always going to be second guessed unless you're scoring touchdowns every single drive, so it's tough to comment on that side of the ball. Todd Dodge was Midas in that department, so the comparison is extremely difficult.

Last but not least, I think Padron's absence was too casually dismissed by too many people on the board, SLC fans & otherwise. Part of that comes from (a) the fact that Piland's such a super talent, and (b) at SLC you just expect excellence from day one and don't know anything else. Piland is clearly a stud, but replacing your QB mid-season in a district like the one SLC's in means something. Any other program loses their starting QB and goes on the road against Hebron (and not just Hebron, but a Hebron team that is playing SLC and bringing their A+ game & effort) and they're probably getting blown out. At SLC, most people just downgraded their prediction by about 7 points.

I'm eager to see a healthy Dragon team in the playoffs. People may be chomping at the bit to get at them while they are relatively "down", but I think it's foolish to count them out. From what I saw, those kids are putting their heart into it, and they're too talented for good things to not start happening. Things just have to come together, and I think they will. That may not necessarily mean a ring this year.

SLC
11-02-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm eager to see a healthy Dragon team in the playoffs. People may be chomping at the bit to get at them while they are relatively "down", but I think it's foolish to count them out. From what I saw, those kids are putting their heart into it, and they're too talented for good things to not start happening. Things just have to come together, and I think they will. That may not necessarily mean a ring this year.


Problem is, we wont be healthy in the playoffs either... I really think this season is all gravy though... Anything can happen and we could go on a run and win a title, but seriously I thought next seasons group would be ready to make a run... All the playing time the youth is getting will serve them well next season.

CKE
11-02-2008, 01:46 PM
Go away. Not your thread. Don't let the door hit ya in the a$$ on the way out.

What a ignorant post :rolleyes:

drgnbkr
11-02-2008, 01:50 PM
A second hand word from TD, yes Senoirs and Juniors (ones who I came and spoke to and sold you on the program) you don't have the talent of previous Dragons...A load of bull. And thanks for putting us under the bus too coach.

Facts:
- QB was on his way to putting up huge numbers if protracted or 15 or 16 games
- 2 WR's that are putting up numbers that would play in any season, has Rake ever dropped a pass? ever?
- RB that averaged almost 20yd/carry in the Dist champ game, same for his #'s over 16 games
- Somebody has to be blocking
- 2 D1 DE's, solid young D, etc

Look, this is a different Dragon team. This team is nicked up and now their pride is dinged a little as well. All of those championship teams had a little good fortune with injuries, especially at the key positions like QB.
The run couldn't last forever, so lets move out from under the bus and prepare and play like Dragons and finish with our chins up.

Well said! They have got to get back to wanting to kill the will of the other team...sure to be lots of work on the basics on defense this week. hopefully lots of work on the passing game. Look for them to bounce back in a big way vs. Lewisville..this is Carroll football after all!

dragons08
11-02-2008, 02:40 PM
21 people sent D1 from 2003 to 2007 was more than any other school during that time period...just thought I would point that out for you

Part of the high number has to do with Carroll's success and Dodge "showcasing" his talent to colleges all over the place and Dodge helping these kids get a chance at the next level.

dragons08
11-02-2008, 02:44 PM
I'd also like to point out that TD never had a winning season till he got to SLC.

He lost his first three games at SLC. Was 19-10 after his first 2 season.

When Dodge came didn't he bring in a WHOLE NEW SYSTEM?

And the previous coach was nothing to write home a lot, it takes a few years to instill a new system.

Wasson is using a system already in place, no drastic changes. A lot of it is lack of fundamentals and a poor play calling.

3rd Generation Katy
11-02-2008, 02:46 PM
Problem is, we wont be healthy in the playoffs either... I really think this season is all gravy though... Anything can happen and we could go on a run and win a title, but seriously I thought next seasons group would be ready to make a run... All the playing time the youth is getting will serve them well next season.

Hey DRAGONS,

Katy and SL are both going to run into the playoffs with probably an 8-2 record. This year has been interesting to say the least but i think both programs will grow tremendously from this point on. I see us both going deep into the playoffs with the experience both teams have. Good luck to yall and keep your heads up.

SLC13
11-02-2008, 03:08 PM
Hey DRAGONS,

Katy and SL are both going to run into the playoffs with probably an 8-2 record. This year has been interesting to say the least but i think both programs will grow tremendously from this point on. I see us both going deep into the playoffs with the experience both teams have. Good luck to yall and keep your heads up.

How true.....I was finding some solace in thinking about the similarities between what both programs have gone through this year. Good luck to you as well.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:37 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone

DragonDad
11-02-2008, 04:38 PM
What a ignorant post :rolleyes:

Perhaps, but just as ignorant is when other posters troll through a thread that was created specifically for Carroll fans and start dumping. So no apologies from me. and oh by the way, its AN ignorant post... thank you very much.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:38 PM
If I'm reading you right, you are misinterpreting. It has not been established that TD said those things. I specifically asked Crunked9 if TD said that and he avoided answering the question.

No, I didn't talk to TD. The reason I threw that out there was to make sure no one was thinking that I thought TD was not a good coach or trying to take a shot at him or anything like that.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:41 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone.

CKE
11-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Perhaps, but just as ignorant is when other posters troll through a thread that was created specifically for Carroll fans and start dumping. So no apologies from me. and oh by the way, its AN ignorant post... thank you very much.

So we are going to play grammer nazi now? Its a public board anyone can comment in any thread they please get the hell over it or go make your own message board if you are going to cry about it.

toonman
11-02-2008, 04:42 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone

Did not play football at Carroll
Did not go to Carroll - but had 2 children that did.
Yes been around the program for over 10 years, as a fan attending games.

I am not quite sure how this helps you.

drgnbkr
11-02-2008, 04:45 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone.

Moved into Southlake in 92. Have seen 6 of the 7 title games and countless others. 2 kids have graduated, with a junior now.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:46 PM
Did not play football at Carroll
Did not go to Carroll - but had 2 children that did.
Yes been around the program for over 10 years, as a fan attending games.

I am not quite sure how this helps you.

Just wondering about people. Just curious.

drgnbkr
11-02-2008, 04:48 PM
Just wondering about people. Just curious.

Besides a lack of playmakers, what else are you seeing with this years team?

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:52 PM
Besides a lack of playmakers, what else are you seeing with this years team?

Tackling! Or lack of! Fundimentals.

And i know people say that is the coaches fault. But don't players learn to tackle in middle school?

Don't players learn fundimentals in the sub-varsity levels of the program?

So, blamming that on the coach doesn't fit with me. Since Wasson has been in the program two years.

Just thoughts

drgnbkr
11-02-2008, 04:54 PM
Tackling! Or lack of! Fundimentals.

And i know people say that is the coaches fault. But don't players learn to tackle in middle school?

Don't players learn fundimentals in the sub-varsity levels of the program?

So, blamming that on the coach doesn't fit with me. Since Wasson has been in the program two years.

Just thoughts

I agree..IMO our kids probably get as good instruction in the fundamentals as anywhere in the state. They learned how to tackle years ago and need to apply that learning in game situations.

TulsaHale74
11-02-2008, 04:55 PM
None of the above.

Hope that helps.:)

Location:Keller to North Dallas? When did that change? Shorter drive now?

crunked9
11-02-2008, 04:56 PM
None of the above.

Hope that helps.:)

Location:Keller to North Dallas? When did that change? Shorter drive now?

Had to do that adult thing and get a Job. Which is in N.Dallas

drgnbkr
11-02-2008, 05:01 PM
I keep seeing people trying to pinpoint this as one specific problem (coaching staff or talent). Football is such a dynamic game. An example of this is the injury situation with the DTs and Cade. You've got kids banged up, shifting to new positions, being taken away from the position they've played all year, etc., and all of a sudden the interior of your defense looks completely different than it did only a few weeks ago. This is all compounded by the fact that many of the kids filling in are JRs (albeit very talented ones). That extra year of mental toughness and weight room maturation is a big deal in 5A football. Some of these kids are very clearly talented, but an extra year would benefit some of them greatly from what I saw (televised replay)... not just physically, but understanding their role with the Xs and Os, making that split-second decision during a play, etc. There are always a few JRs sprinkled in, but at Carroll the standard has usually been to have SRs as the bulk of your lineup with JRs filling in the gaps, not the other way around. In the past there have been exceptions, but usually at least one side of the ball has been SR dominated and has held strong for the other group to get their feet wet. This year it seems like both sides of the ball are getting their feet wet at the same time. That's not an excuse, just a reality of 5A football.

With regards to coaching, it's so difficult for a fan to watch the game and determine if the problem is scheme or not. If a coach puts a kid in position to make a play and he has a mental gaffe and fills the wrong hole, it can bust everything. Particularly at linebacker, if a kid has a split second hesitation, he can get covered up and that's all she wrote. The fan wonders what's going on, and it's difficult to really know what happened unless you know the assignment. Pursuit angles, tackling fundamentals, gap assignment are things that can be taught but still have to be executed. The truth is that very few here really know on Friday nights if a kid blew an assignment or if the coaching staff really just got outworked. The tackling problem isn't just related to one specific things, there are lots of factors that go into that (caliber of ball carrier, fundamentals of defensive player, physical ability of defensive player, body positioning, etc.). It's tough to just label that a coaching issue and be done with it. Playcalling is always going to be second guessed unless you're scoring touchdowns every single drive, so it's tough to comment on that side of the ball. Todd Dodge was Midas in that department, so the comparison is extremely difficult.

Last but not least, I think Padron's absence was too casually dismissed by too many people on the board, SLC fans & otherwise. Part of that comes from (a) the fact that Piland's such a super talent, and (b) at SLC you just expect excellence from day one and don't know anything else. Piland is clearly a stud, but replacing your QB mid-season in a district like the one SLC's in means something. Any other program loses their starting QB and goes on the road against Hebron (and not just Hebron, but a Hebron team that is playing SLC and bringing their A+ game & effort) and they're probably getting blown out. At SLC, most people just downgraded their prediction by about 7 points.

I'm eager to see a healthy Dragon team in the playoffs. People may be chomping at the bit to get at them while they are relatively "down", but I think it's foolish to count them out. From what I saw, those kids are putting their heart into it, and they're too talented for good things to not start happening. Things just have to come together, and I think they will. That may not necessarily mean a ring this year.

Good stuff Oak!

15Adragon
11-02-2008, 05:10 PM
I keep seeing people trying to pinpoint this as one specific problem (coaching staff or talent). Football is such a dynamic game. An example of this is the injury situation with the DTs and Cade. You've got kids banged up, shifting to new positions, being taken away from the position they've played all year, etc., and all of a sudden the interior of your defense looks completely different than it did only a few weeks ago. This is all compounded by the fact that many of the kids filling in are JRs (albeit very talented ones). That extra year of mental toughness and weight room maturation is a big deal in 5A football. Some of these kids are very clearly talented, but an extra year would benefit some of them greatly from what I saw (televised replay)... not just physically, but understanding their role with the Xs and Os, making that split-second decision during a play, etc. There are always a few JRs sprinkled in, but at Carroll the standard has usually been to have SRs as the bulk of your lineup with JRs filling in the gaps, not the other way around. In the past there have been exceptions, but usually at least one side of the ball has been SR dominated and has held strong for the other group to get their feet wet. This year it seems like both sides of the ball are getting their feet wet at the same time. That's not an excuse, just a reality of 5A football.

With regards to coaching, it's so difficult for a fan to watch the game and determine if the problem is scheme or not. If a coach puts a kid in position to make a play and he has a mental gaffe and fills the wrong hole, it can bust everything. Particularly at linebacker, if a kid has a split second hesitation, he can get covered up and that's all she wrote. The fan wonders what's going on, and it's difficult to really know what happened unless you know the assignment. Pursuit angles, tackling fundamentals, gap assignment are things that can be taught but still have to be executed. The truth is that very few here really know on Friday nights if a kid blew an assignment or if the coaching staff really just got outworked. The tackling problem isn't just related to one specific things, there are lots of factors that go into that (caliber of ball carrier, fundamentals of defensive player, physical ability of defensive player, body positioning, etc.). It's tough to just label that a coaching issue and be done with it. Playcalling is always going to be second guessed unless you're scoring touchdowns every single drive, so it's tough to comment on that side of the ball. Todd Dodge was Midas in that department, so the comparison is extremely difficult.

Last but not least, I think Padron's absence was too casually dismissed by too many people on the board, SLC fans & otherwise. Part of that comes from (a) the fact that Piland's such a super talent, and (b) at SLC you just expect excellence from day one and don't know anything else. Piland is clearly a stud, but replacing your QB mid-season in a district like the one SLC's in means something. Any other program loses their starting QB and goes on the road against Hebron (and not just Hebron, but a Hebron team that is playing SLC and bringing their A+ game & effort) and they're probably getting blown out. At SLC, most people just downgraded their prediction by about 7 points.

I'm eager to see a healthy Dragon team in the playoffs. People may be chomping at the bit to get at them while they are relatively "down", but I think it's foolish to count them out. From what I saw, those kids are putting their heart into it, and they're too talented for good things to not start happening. Things just have to come together, and I think they will. That may not necessarily mean a ring this year.

Well said.

The thing I like about oak trees are they are solid and you can always count on them. Oak tree's are Southlake!

15Adragon
11-02-2008, 05:15 PM
If I'm reading you right, you are misinterpreting. It has not been established that TD said those things. I specifically asked Crunked9 if TD said that and he avoided answering the question.

Yes, it didn't come out just right. Was meant to be a hypothetical. My wife was telling me it was time to go and we were late. You know the drill. My point was it was bull to believe that TD would tell someone that... Thanks for keeping me honest.

crunked9
11-02-2008, 05:22 PM
Yes, it didn't come out just right. Was meant to be a hypothetical. My wife was telling me it was time to go and we were late. You know the drill. My point was it was bull to believe that TD would tell someone that... Thanks for keeping me honest.


I never once said that TD said he couldn't win with this team.
What I said was I didn't think he could.

dragonpants
11-02-2008, 05:37 PM
I have a question, and some of you might think it's a little arogant of me.

How long does the Dragon Nation give Wasson to produce a championship? I know expectations are high and I just was wondering what everyone thought.

Also, Do you think Dodge would run this team better if he was still the coach?

I think the level of frustration is not with the wins and losses but how we are losing and general state of the program. There are a few things that happened behind the scenes that I have discussed with people privately because they involve very specific things and people and it is not my place to air the dirty laundry.

IMO for whatever that means, the team is a lot less disciplined, lacks the confindence it once had, does not necessarily have the feeling that they are going to win every game. Assume that it will happen, visualize it will happen and amazingly these things do happen not 100% of the time but a lot. Maybe that is a little too philosphical but reality none the less. It is the lack of swagger and what appears to be a decline in preparation that is what made the difference.
Maybe we are expecting too much too fast but Coach Wasson inherited a gem. Not a broken program to had to be rebuilt. No coach has the support from parents, fans, and the community that he does. WE WANT HIM TO BE SUCCESSFUL, nothing would make us happier so those of you that have the opinion that there are a group of us that want him to fail are just plain wrong.

I think Todd is a better coach so yes I think he would be running the team better. That is not a dig at coach Wasson. Todd Dodge is a once in a lifetime type coach for high school, so we do not expect that, although it would be nice:D.
The respect he earned had little to do with wins and losses but but how he molded young men and created a family and made each kid feel special about being a Dragon. That is why he was great. The rest just fell into place.
He never ever ever made a derogatory comment about a player publically or about his team publically. He fell on the sword although those occassions were few and far between.
He was fantastic with the X's and O's and that is what made a us winners.
In terms of talent, we have the same kids that to be at the championship level will have to over achieve and depend on each other blindly as well as believe that what the coaches say and do is gospel.

4rings
11-02-2008, 05:39 PM
I guess we could miss if we lose and FM wins. I think that with all the good things our backup QB has done, we miss the accuracy that Padron brings in the passing game. That is essential in the spread and we have been blessed. Riley and Chase had the luxury of a lot of playing time prior to stepping up to the starting job. Piland just had time to find his helmet and get out there. I would love to see Piland worked into the game plan as a RB or WR when Kyle returns and I think you will see a return of our efficient offense. The defense is another challenge.

How much playing time did Padron have before he started? Wasson forgot that graduation comes every year. He did little to prepare KP for his role. In fact, Wasson didn't know that KP had never taken a snap under center when his genius in the Abilene came to play. I disagree with Piland at RB. What's wrong with Avers? 200 yards not good enough? Not only do we miss Padron's accuracy, we miss his leadership, his touch, his running ability, leadership, poise, decision-making, leadership. Did I say leadership? Ask the receivers how much Padron's leadership and poise means to them. David has played well and will compete with Williamson for the spot next year, however, if we can play long enough to get KP healthy, the nod should go to KP.

4rings
11-02-2008, 05:42 PM
Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.

Agreed. Play calling has been questionable the past 2 years. Defensive adjustments left when Mendoza left. Wonder how successful TD would have been with this defensive scheme?????

4rings
11-02-2008, 05:48 PM
If I were a coach I wouldnt have said it on radio whether I beieved it or not.. Thats what the locker room is for... And if you want to say something that has about the same meaning but sounds completely different then say we got out played, we got our butts whipped no excuses.. When you say the kids didnt want it as much, I personally think that sends the wrong message.. You could say "these kids really wanted to win tonite, but we got outplayed and have alot of work to do"... It just makes since to me...

And I saw kids trying to tackle all over the field last night, they were just simply pushed around and knocked of the ball and beaten.. Hebron took it to them simple as that.. Doesnt mean we couldnt have played better, but we got whipped.

I agree with you. These kids wanted it as much as Hebron did. Just say we got beat by a better team tonight. Just like Abilene. He would have been respected a heck of a lot more had he said the loss and not calling a timeout to kick the winning FG was his fault.

LAHawk
11-02-2008, 05:49 PM
Pretty obvious we don't like losing. but who does? This is now character time. I too am disappointed in the Hebron game. Why? I thought we needed to make a statement in that game, and believed we could. We didn't, for whatever reason. Hebron is who made the statement. I have never gone to a Dragon game and felt like the other team was better. Good to great, yes. But better? No. Last night I walked away believing the Hebron team was better. Again, for whatever reason.

What do we do about it?
1.) I agree that we kept running Piland when it was obvious it wasn't working. That is not Piland's fault.
2.) When we ran the little counter direction play we usually made good yards, using Hebron's speed against them. Why not use more misdirection, or am I just stupid and blind?
3.) We seem too predictable.
4.) What is wrong with our Rushing Defense? We have talked a bunch of issues,
5.) If you can't score when it is crunch time, inside the 10 (or whatever it was), then your offense has a problem.

If we do not address and fix the above problems, we will be one and out against CHHS. That is assuming we can beat Lewisville, they will be playing us for their season, much like TAM v UT last year. We have now come up against two teams (Coppell/Hebron) that have awaited playing and beating us for at least a year (see earlier post from Hebron fan), AND REALLY WANTED IT! CHHS has just as much incentive and more, and they will play their hearts out. See Texas Tech v UT for an example. :(
I will tell you, CHHS WILL beat us ( if we get the chance to play them, this is not a done deal folks) if we do not fix these problems. I think we still have the capability (and the talent by the way) to go all the way to state. To do it, we need every player and every Coach to put as much into it as I saw from Avers, Hoagland, Piland, Rake, Foster, our DE's, etc. (I don't mean to leave anyone out that put it all out there). We cannot play not to lose, we must play to win. (again, see TT v UT for an example).

We don't need to talk long-term solutions right now, we need to talk about what it will take to win the next game. Then the next one. Then the next one. Repeat.
I want to say one other thing (I know this is a rambling post, apologize). Look at Katy. Look at Lufkin vs the Woodlands. Katy started out looking pretty bad, but they have stuck with their program, focused on improvement, and done the best with what they have. We should take notes, Coaches, players, fans included. Lufkin...who picked Lufkin to beat The Woodlands? Anybody?....Still Waiting.....Point is, IT CAN BE DONE. The Dragons have no God-given birthright to playoff games, we have to earn it like everybody else. Protect the Tradition is not an inheritance. We have to earn it every year.

Let's go out and earn it. The season starts right. now.

Right. Now. We are 0-0.

And kiss my $#%@^ Coach Campo!

:notworthy The best post on here by far.

packfan22
11-02-2008, 06:03 PM
I said this two years ago ,that when Dodge leaves the dragons would start losing games.........Some coaches have a better feel for the game than others. I,m sure there are a lot of SLC fans agree ,but may not say it.:eek:

DrEdward
11-02-2008, 06:05 PM
I have tried to restrain myself in this thread and so far have managed to do so. I will now give in. To answer crunked's question, I have been a part of Dragon football as a fan for two decades now. The fact that they have, for the most part, been astoundingly successful seasons sure has made it easy to be a Carroll fan. But there have been some down years as well. All of Ledbetter's teams were not great, but a few most definitely were. Rapp also managed to put a very good team on the field once or twice. Dodge's record speaks for itself at the 5A level, but the inital years at Carroll were less than overwhelming. So far in his head coaching career at Carroll, Hal Wasson is 17-4 or a winning percentage of 81%.

I have seen a Carroll team go 10-0 in the regular season and had no idea how they did so, as that team was simply not all that good. Yet, other 10-0 teams with the identical 10-0 regular season record were among the best that have ever been seen in Texas high school football and they were not all achieved under Todd Dodge. In fact, the perhaps the best team that I have ever watched at Carroll played 3A ball and did so in a matter that likely would have dominated most every 5A team that season.

Coaching is essential and Carroll has been blessed with good ones; Hal Wasson is one of the good ones. He is not Todd Dodge and does not have Dodge's personality. He did not "throw" the players under the bus last Friday in his comments. It was pretty clear to most folks that Hebron was decidedly fired up for the game from their fans to their players. If the Carroll fans were not, then that is our fault, not the coaches or the players; if the players were not fired up for the game, then the coaches decidedly have some degree of responsibility for that, but it is also not entirely upon them. The young men on the field have to take the responsibility for their attitude as well. In fact, that is one of the primary lessons that participation in sports should teach any of us. "Protect the Tradition" does not refer to tailgating in the parking lots before the games. Nor is it some silly tee-shirt slogan. It is meant to reflect what a very special thing that Carroll High School has going and has had going since before I got here. It is not all about football or athletics. It is among one of the reasons why some of us very much engaged in defending this high school against the ravages that certain past school boards wanted to inflict on this district. Not because of some potential impact on a football program, but on something much more fundamental. It is something that requires an emotional committment and the players and the coaches and the fans have to have it in them. Just what a special thing the Carroll schools really are in this community.

The book is hardly closed on the current incarnation of the football Dragons. Just as essential as good coaching is the availability and capability of student-athletes. Certainly Carroll has been blessed for over twenty years with some astoundingly good ones. Not only good on the field, but good in the classroom as well. This school has placed a relatively large number of students from the ball teams in the service acadamies, in Ivy league schools and some other outstanding universities. As I recall, there has even been a perfect SAT score sent out from among the football participants. I will refuse to comment in any detail on any current player on here; just don't think it is right to do so, at least not until after the season is complete and it is not yet completed. I will only state that as some of us discussed prior to the season, that Carroll's team this season was overrated at the beginning of the year. This year's team returned virtually no one on offense and relatively few on defense from a very good team last season that had the potential to win yet another state title. The 2008 team has suffered a number of losses amoing starters from a newly created group of Dragons on both sides of the ball, some of which we will not likely see back again this season. Yet others have stepped in and the record is still 6-2.

Will the Dragons make a deep run in the playoffs this year? Probably not. The odds are against most teams doing so. But they might; it has happened before. The players will likely be called upon to play over their heads, just as other Carroll teams have been called upon to do in the face of some adversity in the past. (Vernon, Lufkin, Trinity, Abilene, Katy immediately come to mind in the playoffs.) But whether the current crop of Dragons is successful in doing so or not, I will still be a fan of Carroll, its kids and its coaches.

kahuna
11-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Bad play calling. Where were our adjustments in the second half on defense? Coach Wilson, they are going to run at your outside linebacker, not Mitchell Osbourne he can tackle, the other one. Our tackling has been horrendous all year. That falls on the coaching..teach the kids to wrap up in practice. On offense Tommy Avers was running great last...over 200 yards on 10 carries. DP had 21 carries for 63 yards. DP had 11 carries in the 4th quarter and Tommy had 1...bad coaching here again. When we are down 44-28 we are running the ball with 3 minutes left. You tell me who gave up last night, was not our kids.Some of you guys with these comments need to keep some things in perspective. Coaches coach and players play. Injuries happen. This is a young team and they will get better. We just seem to always have some overzealous dads and when things do not go as we expect they get ready to point the finger. We should always encourage rather than discourage. These are kids and they will eventually figure it all out. But until that happens why don't you stay off the coaches a@*! I guarantee you this, our kids are prepared for each and every game. How would some of us like if coaches around the state came to our place of work and yelled and backstabbed us from the break room and message boards. Some of you need to get a grip and just enjoy watching your kids. You can never get this time back. Things in Dragon Nation will work themselves out. But in my opinion, you need to support the WHOLE program, top to bottom. I'm sorry, Armchair Quarterbacks really piss me off. You think you know something by sitting up in the stands but you know nothing.

4rings
11-02-2008, 06:19 PM
[QUOTE=Silver Wings Mom;962223]Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

Sorry Mom, obviously you don't understand that there are 119 Div 1 programs in the country. When you get the chance to be 1 of 119 you go. The cupboard wasn't bare last year and it's not bare this year. Both years we have been beset with injuries. Wonder how smart Brasil would be if his starting QB was lost for the season in back to back years? Enjoy your victory. Your team deserved it. Your comment that Padron's fumble was the downfall shows your ignorance. Stick to the dance team and all that. By the way, the Emerald Belles kicked the crap out of the Silver Wings or whatever that crap was at halftime. Honey, 7-2 is still prety good considering our starting QB has been out since game 6.

4rings
11-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Just an example of the volatility of HS football. SLC went from probable loss to state title.

Probable loss? there's a reason they play 48 minutes lady. Check the stats. SLC outgained Trinity in total yards. The state title came because we beat a ton of undefeated teams along the way. Coaches make decisions. Lineweaver has forgotten more football than you'll ever know. Stick to dance or whatever that crap is the wings do.

4rings
11-02-2008, 06:36 PM
Below are my posts after the first game of the season for which I was denigrated. The writing was on the wall in that last week of August against Plano West.

QUOTE #1 : A very poor team beaten by a very ordinary team.

QUOTE #2 : It may have been a good game by Plano West standards, but today was not a good performance by Southlake Carroll standards. Apart from the scoreline, that was a very untypical Southlake Carroll team.

QUOTE #3 : I was there today, as I have been to most games over the last 6 years. Today’s game was nothing like the Dragons performances over the last 6 years. Today’s Southlake Carroll was just like the other 200 or so 5A teams in Texas, whereas over the last 6 years the Dragons have been a totally different class over and above all other teams in Texas.

This is not an 'I told you so', but the unfolding of the district play has really caught some people by surprise; but the signs were there in almost every game the Dragons have played this season.


If this isn't an "I told you so", what is it? You seem to be a know it all. What's the stock market going to do Monday? Might as well make some $$$ with all the smarts you have.

dragonpants
11-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Tackling! Or lack of! Fundimentals.

And i know people say that is the coaches fault. But don't players learn to tackle in middle school?

Don't players learn fundimentals in the sub-varsity levels of the program?

So, blamming that on the coach doesn't fit with me. Since Wasson has been in the program two years.

Just thoughts


Yes they learn that in middle school, they also learn to block and throw and run, so why practice at all?????????????

Just show up for the games, I know sounds like I am being a smart a** just trying to make a point. If you do not continually practice the basics you will be mediocre at them.
The teams that block and tackle the best win, especially in high school.

HebronHawk
11-02-2008, 06:47 PM
[QUOTE=Silver Wings Mom;962223]Or did Dodge get the H### out of Dodge since he knew things wouldn't continue as they were? Granted UNT has done him no favors with the positive drug tests but at least they did win tonight. You should have lost against Trinity two years ago when Dodge was the coach. Thanks to a bonehead decision by the Trinity coach you went on the win State.

Re: Wasson -- last year SLC was one play away from winning against Abilene and moving on to the regional finals against Hebron. Padron's fumble was the downfall. This year you move into a nightmare district. You have multiple injuries, including your staring QB. Coulda woulda shoulda beat Coppell. These things happen in HS football. Everyone knew from the get go the Hebron game was going to be the focal point of the season. We were at a drill team competition in March in NYC talking about the Halloween game vs. SLC.

Sorry Mom, obviously you don't understand that there are 119 Div 1 programs in the country. When you get the chance to be 1 of 119 you go. The cupboard wasn't bare last year and it's not bare this year. Both years we have been beset with injuries. Wonder how smart Brasil would be if his starting QB was lost for the season in back to back years? Enjoy your victory. Your team deserved it. Your comment that Padron's fumble was the downfall shows your ignorance. Stick to the dance team and all that. By the way, the Emerald Belles kicked the crap out of the Silver Wings or whatever that crap was at halftime. Honey, 7-2 is still prety good considering our starting QB has been out since game 6.

I won't go through our laundry list of injured players but there were at least six on the sideline on Friday night for the Carroll game.

This has probably been our worst year for injuries that I can remember.

15Adragon
11-02-2008, 06:59 PM
[quote=4rings;963573]

I won't go through our laundry list of injured players but there were at least six on the sideline on Friday night for the Carroll game.

This has probably been our worst year for injuries that I can remember.

Hawk,

This is crushed dragon. We love you guys. We are pulling for you to represent us well. You whipped us. Now you want us to know that you beat us with a 1/3 of your roster injured. OK, we get it. You won. You could have beat us with your JV :rolleyes:. Good luck next week and beyond.:notworthy

HebronHawk
11-02-2008, 07:15 PM
[quote=HebronHawk;963610]

Hawk,

This is crushed dragon. We love you guys. We are pulling for you to represent us well. You whipped us. Now you want us to know that you beat us with a 1/3 of your roster injured. OK, we get it. You won. You could have beat us with your JV :rolleyes:. Good luck next week and beyond.:notworthy

No, I wasn't really trying to say that. It's just 4 rings and I wanted to let him know that we are banged up too. I think we lost another guy in the Carroll game that we had been waiting to heal up all year. He was injured this summer in 7 on 7.

SLC
11-02-2008, 07:26 PM
Hey DRAGONS,

Katy and SL are both going to run into the playoffs with probably an 8-2 record. This year has been interesting to say the least but i think both programs will grow tremendously from this point on. I see us both going deep into the playoffs with the experience both teams have. Good luck to yall and keep your heads up.

We certainly appreciate the kind words... We hold the opinions of our Katy brothers and sisters in very high regard... Yall keep your heads up too, Keep playing.. We will meet in the future...

slcdragonfan
11-02-2008, 07:31 PM
We certainly appreciate the kind words... We hold the opinions of our Katy brothers and sisters in very high regard... Yall keep your heads up too, Keep playing.. We will meet in the future...

....even though you guys told Marcus to beat us!;)

SLC
11-02-2008, 07:41 PM
I have tried to restrain myself in this thread and so far have managed to do so. I will now give in. To answer crunked's question, I have been a part of Dragon football as a fan for two decades now. The fact that they have, for the most part, been astoundingly successful seasons sure has made it easy to be a Carroll fan. But there have been some down years as well. All of Ledbetter's teams were not great, but a few most definitely were. Rapp also managed to put a very good team on the field once or twice. Dodge's record speaks for itself at the 5A level, but the inital years at Carroll were less than overwhelming. So far in his head coaching career at Carroll, Hal Wasson is 17-3 or a winning percentage of 85%.

I have seen a Carroll team go 10-0 in the regular season and had no idea how they did so, as that team was simply not all that good. Yet, other 10-0 teams with the identical 10-0 regular season record were among the best that have ever been seen in Texas high school football and they were not all achieved under Todd Dodge. In fact, the perhaps the best team that I have ever watched at Carroll played 3A ball and did so in a matter that likely would have dominated most every 5A team that season.

Coaching is essentailly and Carroll has been blessed with good ones; Hal Wasson is one of the good ones. He is not Todd Dodge and does not have Dodge's personality. He did not "throw" the players under the bus last Friday in his comments. It was pretty clear to most folks that Hebron was decidedly fired up for the game from their fans to their players. If the Carroll fans were not, then that is our fault, not the coaches or the players; if the players were not fired up for the game, then the coaches decidedly have some degree of responsibility for that, but it is also not entirely upon them. The young men on the field have to take the responsibility for their attitude as well. In fact, that is one of the primary lessons that participation in sports should teach any of us. "Protect the Tradition" does not refer to tailgating in the parking lots before the games. Nor is it some silly tee-shirt slogan. It is meant to reflect what a very special thing that Carroll High School has going and has had going since before I got here. It is not all about football or athletics. It is among one of the reasons why some of us very much engaged in defending this high school against the ravages that certain past school boards wanted to inflict on this district. Not because of some potential impact on a football program, but on something much more fundamental. It is something that requires an emotional committment and the players and the coaches and the fans have to have it in them. Just what a special thing the Carroll schools really are in this community.

The book is hardly closed on the current incarnation of the football Dragons. Just as essential as good coaching is the availability and capability of student-athletes. Certainly Carroll has been blessed for over twenty years with some astoundingly good ones. Not only good on the field, but good in the classroom as well. This school has placed a relatively large number of students from the ball teams in the service acadamies, in Ivy league schools and some other outstanding universities. As I recall, there has even been a perfect SAT score sent out from among the football participants. I will refuse to comment in any detail on any current player on here; just don't think it is right to do so, at least not until after the season is complete and it is not yet completed. I will only state that as some of us discussed prior to the season, that Carroll's team this season was overrated at the beginning of the year. This year's team returned virtually no one on offense and relatively few on defense from a very good team last season that had the potential to win yet another state title. The 2008 team has suffered a number of losses amoing starters from a newly created group of Dragons on both sides of the ball, some of which we will not likely see back again this season. Yet others have stepped in and the record is still 6-2.

Will the Dragons make a deep run in the playoffs this year? Probably not. The odds are against most teams doing so. But they might; it has happened before. The players will likely be called upon to play over their heads, just as other Carroll teams have been called upon to do in the face of some adversity in the past. (Vernon, Lufkin, Trinity, Abilene, Katy immediately come to mind in the playoffs.) But whether the current crop of Dragons is successful in doing so or not, I will still be a fan of Carroll, its kids and its coaches.


I love it all Doc.... Especially the "Protect The Traidition" stuff.... Thats what I was trying to get across earlier.... Good stuff...:)

Also I believe Hal is 17-4... Not 17-3.... Other than that I love it...:D


I also wanted to answer crunk... I moved to Southlake in 1996 after I graduated from UT... Up until last year my son was inrolled in the Carroll school district... We moved to Sherman 1 year ago...

dragons08
11-02-2008, 07:55 PM
I love it all Doc.... Especially the "Protect The Traidition" stuff.... Thats what I was trying to get across earlier.... Good stuff...:)

Also I believe Hal is 17-4... Not 17-3.... Other than that I love it...:D


I also wanted to answer crunk... I moved to Southlake in 1996 after I graduated from UT... Up until last year my son was inrolled in the Carroll school district... We moved to Sherman 1 year ago...

Wait, you don't live in Southlake?

Didn't know that.

SLC
11-02-2008, 08:49 PM
Wait, you don't live in Southlake?

Didn't know that.

I did until last year... We live in Sherman now... I am origionally from Denison and my wife is from Sherman... We moved from Sherman to Austin in 1992 and from Austin to Southlake in 1996 and just moved back to Sherman last year when my wife went to work for Wison N. Jones hospital in Sherman... To keep her from having to make the drive back and forth... I was already driving alot anyway, so the move didnt change anything for me..

Hey I fell in love with the Dragon program as soon as we moved there and even cheered for them against Sherman in 1998 and 2002, and against Denison in 2002.. And I am a Denison alum... So there ya go..

crunked9
11-02-2008, 08:54 PM
I have tried to restrain myself in this thread and so far have managed to do so. I will now give in. To answer crunked's question, I have been a part of Dragon football as a fan for two decades now. The fact that they have, for the most part, been astoundingly successful seasons sure has made it easy to be a Carroll fan. But there have been some down years as well. All of Ledbetter's teams were not great, but a few most definitely were. Rapp also managed to put a very good team on the field once or twice. Dodge's record speaks for itself at the 5A level, but the inital years at Carroll were less than overwhelming. So far in his head coaching career at Carroll, Hal Wasson is 17-3 or a winning percentage of 85%.

I have seen a Carroll team go 10-0 in the regular season and had no idea how they did so, as that team was simply not all that good. Yet, other 10-0 teams with the identical 10-0 regular season record were among the best that have ever been seen in Texas high school football and they were not all achieved under Todd Dodge. In fact, the perhaps the best team that I have ever watched at Carroll played 3A ball and did so in a matter that likely would have dominated most every 5A team that season.

Coaching is essentailly and Carroll has been blessed with good ones; Hal Wasson is one of the good ones. He is not Todd Dodge and does not have Dodge's personality. He did not "throw" the players under the bus last Friday in his comments. It was pretty clear to most folks that Hebron was decidedly fired up for the game from their fans to their players. If the Carroll fans were not, then that is our fault, not the coaches or the players; if the players were not fired up for the game, then the coaches decidedly have some degree of responsibility for that, but it is also not entirely upon them. The young men on the field have to take the responsibility for their attitude as well. In fact, that is one of the primary lessons that participation in sports should teach any of us. "Protect the Tradition" does not refer to tailgating in the parking lots before the games. Nor is it some silly tee-shirt slogan. It is meant to reflect what a very special thing that Carroll High School has going and has had going since before I got here. It is not all about football or athletics. It is among one of the reasons why some of us very much engaged in defending this high school against the ravages that certain past school boards wanted to inflict on this district. Not because of some potential impact on a football program, but on something much more fundamental. It is something that requires an emotional committment and the players and the coaches and the fans have to have it in them. Just what a special thing the Carroll schools really are in this community.

The book is hardly closed on the current incarnation of the football Dragons. Just as essential as good coaching is the availability and capability of student-athletes. Certainly Carroll has been blessed for over twenty years with some astoundingly good ones. Not only good on the field, but good in the classroom as well. This school has placed a relatively large number of students from the ball teams in the service acadamies, in Ivy league schools and some other outstanding universities. As I recall, there has even been a perfect SAT score sent out from among the football participants. I will refuse to comment in any detail on any current player on here; just don't think it is right to do so, at least not until after the season is complete and it is not yet completed. I will only state that as some of us discussed prior to the season, that Carroll's team this season was overrated at the beginning of the year. This year's team returned virtually no one on offense and relatively few on defense from a very good team last season that had the potential to win yet another state title. The 2008 team has suffered a number of losses amoing starters from a newly created group of Dragons on both sides of the ball, some of which we will not likely see back again this season. Yet others have stepped in and the record is still 6-2.

Will the Dragons make a deep run in the playoffs this year? Probably not. The odds are against most teams doing so. But they might; it has happened before. The players will likely be called upon to play over their heads, just as other Carroll teams have been called upon to do in the face of some adversity in the past. (Vernon, Lufkin, Trinity, Abilene, Katy immediately come to mind in the playoffs.) But whether the current crop of Dragons is successful in doing so or not, I will still be a fan of Carroll, its kids and its coaches.


Just 20 years?? ;)

Memorial76
11-02-2008, 08:56 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone

Longer than 10 years!

dragons08
11-02-2008, 09:23 PM
I did until last year... We live in Sherman now... I am origionally from Denison and my wife is from Sherman... We moved from Sherman to Austin in 1992 and from Austin to Southlake in 1996 and just moved back to Sherman last year when my wife went to work for Wison N. Jones hospital in Sherman... To keep her from having to make the drive back and forth... I was already driving alot anyway, so the move didnt change anything for me..

Hey I fell in love with the Dragon program as soon as we moved there and even cheered for them against Sherman in 1998 and 2002, and against Denison in 2002.. And I am a Denison alum... So there ya go..

I guess I'll let ya slide on this one...

15Adragon
11-02-2008, 09:45 PM
Longer than 10 years!

First Dragon game was fall 74. We used to travel to the away games and walk along the chain link fences from end zone to end zone. We didn't have internet, but HS Football was being discussed everywhere. "Did you hear about the new kid who moved in, I hear ...". "We are changing the Offense this year, moving so and so to RB ..." Great stuff listening to the adults talk about HS Football.

If we just could've beaten Aledo.

SLC
11-02-2008, 09:47 PM
I guess I'll let ya slide on this one...

You have no choice grasshoper... I am Dragon to the core... I am not a "lifer" that is from Southlake, yet I support this program as if it was my own... My son was 4 years old when I became a fan... And I used to take him to the old stadium to watch games... And now all these years later.. My daughter is 4 and I take her to games with me... oddly enough she REALLY gets into the games...

dragons08
11-02-2008, 10:47 PM
First Dragon game was fall 74. We used to travel to the away games and walk along the chain link fences from end zone to end zone. We didn't have internet, but HS Football was being discussed everywhere. "Did you hear about the new kid who moved in, I hear ...". "We are changing the Offense this year, moving so and so to RB ..." Great stuff listening to the adults talk about HS Football.

If we just could've beaten Aledo.

Somebody is really beginning to show their age. :D

SLC13
11-02-2008, 10:59 PM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone

Moved here in Nov '92 and have had 4 kids go through the Carroll school system (youngest 2 are still attending). The first Dragon game I ever attended was the classic against Vernon and I've been hooked ever since.

uhsfilmcrew
11-02-2008, 11:04 PM
how are yall looking this season? ive been watching highlights of yall the past year, and ive heard a couple of bad time losses. hows your team doing? how does your team look?

dragons08
11-02-2008, 11:10 PM
how are yall looking this season? ive been watching highlights of yall the past year, and ive heard a couple of bad time losses. hows your team doing? how does your team look?

Been an uncharacteristic year by "Dragon Standards." There have been a lot more TO's and lack of the "little" things that this team always did. Tackling has been a HUGE problem, and teams have been able to put up a lot of rushing yards against them. This team is considered very "inexperienced" compared to teams of the past.

SLCfan2407
11-02-2008, 11:56 PM
Some of you guys with these comments need to keep some things in perspective. Coaches coach and players play. Injuries happen. This is a young team and they will get better. We just seem to always have some overzealous dads and when things do not go as we expect they get ready to point the finger. We should always encourage rather than discourage. These are kids and they will eventually figure it all out. But until that happens why don't you stay off the coaches a@*! I guarantee you this, our kids are prepared for each and every game. How would some of us like if coaches around the state came to our place of work and yelled and backstabbed us from the break room and message boards. Some of you need to get a grip and just enjoy watching your kids. You can never get this time back. Things in Dragon Nation will work themselves out. But in my opinion, you need to support the WHOLE program, top to bottom. I'm sorry, Armchair Quarterbacks really piss me off. You think you know something by sitting up in the stands but you know nothing.

You my friend need to be careful who you are talking too and who you are calling out....I have lived in this program for a while now! Seen a lot and experienced a lot. I do know what I am talking about when it comes to football sir. I have seen bad tackling from an our defense... I have seen no intensity what so ever, when you give up two 95 yard TD drives and no one comes to the sideline with any anger or any intensity something is wrong. Prepared?? How is giving up 308 yards to one kid, 484 yards rushing to a team that only ran for 175 on the bottom team in the district the week before, how can you call that prepared? Very unprepared in my opinion. I am not blaming anyone, I think our coaches are at fault as much as our kids are. The coaches are supposed to teach tackling and the kids need to execute. We simply have not so I do not know who the blame for that. If you have a problem with my posts I would love to talk with you in a private message, but do not call me out on here. And who ever said I was sitting in the stands? You have no idea where I sit, or stand for that matter. I am not back stabbing anyone, I hope our coaches can recognize the many problems we have with this team. So I would communicate it with them if they asked my opinion. But they wont, so no need to.

Southlake Carroll Dragons
11-03-2008, 12:36 AM
I am very close with TD and no I don't think he would be doing any better with this group of kids.

The TALENT is just not there!

The TALENT is HERE!!! Southlake has so much talent now and what will be coming up the next 3 years from what I can see is unbelievable. I hate watching when Southlake losses but these two losses will help Southlake I think. Southlake needs to step up than what theyve been doing and play mistake free football. This team needs to blow out lewisville this coming up game and have that confident attitude that no matter who we play in the playoffs we are about kick your butt. There is no way there is a lack of talent!!!!!!

Southlake Carroll Dragons
11-03-2008, 12:43 AM
I said this two years ago ,that when Dodge leaves the dragons would start losing games.........Some coaches have a better feel for the game than others. I,m sure there are a lot of SLC fans agree ,but may not say it.:eek:

It is no wonder why this is from a lufkin panther. Yeah haha you wish what you said is correct which is not correct at all. Yeah we may have lost 4 games under Coach Wasson as coach but Coach Wasson is a great coach.

yankee
11-03-2008, 01:05 AM
a couple of observations from this thread so far...

wasson didn't "throw the kids under the bus"...sheesh...don't get so offended from that comment. everyone is always bashing the guy for not being of the same style as dodge and then one little comment...

i also see many people jumping off the "david piland bandwagon"...people that wanted him the starter for the rest of the season now want KP to resume the starting role when he comes back...

oh and haters...thanks for the laughs, because your jealousy does not escape us..

crunked9
11-03-2008, 07:07 AM
The TALENT is HERE!!! Southlake has so much talent now and what will be coming up the next 3 years from what I can see is unbelievable. I hate watching when Southlake losses but these two losses will help Southlake I think. Southlake needs to step up than what theyve been doing and play mistake free football. This team needs to blow out lewisville this coming up game and have that confident attitude that no matter who we play in the playoffs we are about kick your butt. There is no way there is a lack of talent!!!!!!

Ok, so there is no lack of talent... then tell me, who on this 'O' could start on any of the other state championship teams?

My answer is none. So, if none could then obviously the talent is down from the past.

15Adragon
11-03-2008, 07:16 AM
Ok, so there is no lack of talent... then tell me, who on this 'O' could start on any of the other state championship teams?

My answer is none. So, if none could then obviously the talent is down from the past.

Not going there. I have already stated that the numbers at the key positions compare with past champions. IMO, it is not fair to the kids to compare them with their hero's from past, or to get into a discussion that this player is better than the player on the xx team.

15Adragon
11-03-2008, 07:19 AM
a couple of observations from this thread so far...

wasson didn't "throw the kids under the bus"...sheesh...don't get so offended from that comment. everyone is always bashing the guy for not being of the same style as dodge and then one little comment...

i also see many people jumping off the "david piland bandwagon"...people that wanted him the starter for the rest of the season now want KP to resume the starting role when he comes back...

oh and haters...thanks for the laughs, because your jealousy does not escape us..

DP directed an O that had 430+ yards and no turnovers in a Dist championship game with the D spying on him and delivering punishing hits. That was a solid performance by a QB in his 3rd game. Nuf said.

DrEdward
11-03-2008, 07:20 AM
Just 20 years?? ;)

It actually seems a whole lot shorter than that. It is amazing how many young men (and young women) from Carroll, including you, I have watched and cheered for. I am grateful to all of you for your efforts. Last Friday night was painful to watch, but it will not stop me from supporting the Dragons.

15Adragon
11-03-2008, 07:32 AM
Somebody is really beginning to show their age. :D

Thanks! :eek:

Actually, I set in front of a Dragon from class of '77 at the game. I ran into a star baseball player from the '76 team at the gym a couple of days ago. The old Dragons are everywhere. There aren't many of us, but we spread out and cover the landscape. I can tell you this - we did not work non-stop and as hard as these young Dragons do. The effort these kids put into developing their skills is truly amazing.:)

SLC
11-03-2008, 08:24 AM
a couple of observations from this thread so far...

wasson didn't "throw the kids under the bus"...sheesh...don't get so offended from that comment. everyone is always bashing the guy for not being of the same style as dodge and then one little comment...

i also see many people jumping off the "david piland bandwagon"...people that wanted him the starter for the rest of the season now want KP to resume the starting role when he comes back...

oh and haters...thanks for the laughs, because your jealousy does not escape us..

I dont believe he threw the kids under the bus... I just dont think you say that to a radio station... Thats my opinion and others have their opinion, in my mind when dealing with kids..teenagers... you dont want say they didnt want to win as badly as the other team... I would have worded it differently..Period.

I am one that thought and I still think David brings his own style, much like any of the Carroll QB's do... My main point was that, if David is playing well he should keep playing... even if Kyle is healthy... I personally think I have seen great play by David... Its just that now that its apparent we cant stop the run on defense for whatever reason, it becomes evident we will have to throw alot to win.. Under that scenario I think Kyle would do better...

dragonpants
11-03-2008, 08:27 AM
I have been working on this all weekend and neither paper has us guaranteed to make the playoffs.
I cannot come up with a scenario where we do not make it even if we lose on Friday.

Am I missing something?

SLC
11-03-2008, 08:31 AM
I have been working on this all weekend and neither paper has us guaranteed to make the playoffs.
I cannot come up with a scenario where we do not make it even if we lose on Friday.

Am I missing something?

I've looked at to and I dont see where we wouldnt make the playoff either.. I can however say that we just need to win like a playoff spot is at stake... I for this reason alone think you will see a fired up bunch of players on the Dragon sideline on Firday night.

SLC93
11-03-2008, 08:33 AM
How many people on here talking SLC.....

Played football at SLC?
Went to SLC?
Have been around the program longer than 10 years?

Just trying to get a feel for everyone

My family moved to Carroll in 1983. I attended CISD from the third grade until graduation in the spring of 1993. The best team our school ever fielded was my senior year squad, the 1992 Carroll Dragons. My memories take me as far back as the Uldrich, Walker, Blanchard, Rieddel backfield of 1987, the best starting backfield our school has ever known.

Things for all of you to remember. First, never question the kids, period. What it takes to be a student athlete today far surpasses what any of our experiences were.

Second, when you choose the easy path in one thing you will choose it in all things. Wasson and his staff need to step up their game, no doubt, but to participate in pages of dialouge speculating on their competence level is not only embarrassing, it degrades the program.

Third, a program is like a war. It is not made into a winner year to year, season to season, battle to battle or game to game. It is forged over time, sometimes decades. It is a constant struggle for forward movement. The young men who comprise it's ranks and their leaders embody sacrifice and committment. It is made in January and February workouts as much as it is in practice of week four.

Next, if the team is a reflection of it's fans and community then make sure your mirror is clean. I find it amusing to read the tone of many of these posts. Their content is laced with innuendo and accusation. We accuse or infer things from what we see on the field and, now, many express displeasure with what they see. The issue is many of the perceived problems on the field are present in the accusatory material. I would encourage every one of you to be as dedicated, as committed and as disciplined with your work here as you would like to see from our program right now. I do not accept the presence of a double standard in this area. You cannot have it both ways.

Finally, the measure of anyone's merit is not found during the celebration but, rather, the despair. Now, allow me to remind all of you that despair is a relative term, as it applies to Carroll and this situation. Also remember that we have been spoiled and pampered by a program that has given us long stretches with nothing to be concerned about. This season has brought more challenge than we are accustomed to. Nothing more & nothing less can be said. We've found ourselves in tight places and experienced the good(Marcus), the bad(Coppell) & the ugly(Hebron). We will be stronger for it, provided it is not allowed to destroy us. The kids deserve our support. The coaches deserve our support. There is nothing more to say. Does all of this mean you cannot be upset with playcalling, penalties or in game decisions? Of course it doesn't. If it did, the emotions I go through just listening to a broadcast would make me a hypocrite for posting these thoughts. What it means is that you all need to present yourself and act in a manner that is reflective of the standard you have placed on this program. You cannot hold something up high, setting it on a pedestal, claim to be part of it and then behave in a manner that is less than.

The 2008 Dragons are a young, talented squad. They have had their ups and downs. They will continue to thrill and disappoint. They are kids striving to acheive. They have games left to play and memories yet to make. For their efforts, I say thank you. For the thrills they provide me, I am in debt. For the heartbreak that sometimes comes because I love them, I am not angry. If you are unwilling to take the bad, you do not deserve the good. 6-2 with one more to go before the second season. Let's finish up strong and get ready for a run because wehn it's win or go home, anything can happen.:cool:

SLC
11-03-2008, 08:46 AM
My family moved to Carroll in 1983. I attended CISD from the third grade until graduation in the spiring of 1993. The best team our school ever fielded was my senior year squad, the 1992 Carroll Dragons. My memories take me as far back as the Uldrich, Walker, Blanchard, Rieddel backfield of 1987, the best starting backfield our school has ever known.

Things for all of you to remember. First, never question the kids, period. What it takes to be a student athlete today far surpasses what any of our experiences were.

Second, when you choose the easy path in one thing you will choose it in all things. Wasson and his staff need to step up their game, no doubt, but to participate in pages of dialouge speculating on their competence level is not only embarrassing, it degrades the program.

Third, a program is like a war. It is not made into a winner year to year, season to season, battle to battle or game to game. It is forged over time, sometimes decades. It is a constant struggle for forward movement. The young men who comprise it's ranks and their leaders embody sacrifice and committment. It is made in January and February workouts as much as it is in practice of week four.

Next, if the team is a reflection of it's fans and community then make sure your mirror is clean. I find it amusing to ready the tone of many of these posts. Their content is laced with innuendo and accusation. We accuse or infer things from what we see on the field and now many express displeasure with what they see. The issue is many of the perceived problems on the field are present in the accusatory material. I would encourage every one of you to be as dedicated, as committed and as disciplined with your work here as you would like to see from our program right now.

Finally, the measure of anyone's merit is not found during the celebration but, rather, the despair. now, allow me to remind all of you that despair is a relative term as it applies to Carroll and this situation. Also remember that we have been spolied and pampered by a program that has given us long stretches with nothing to be concerned about. This season has brought more challenge than we are accustomed too. Nothing more & nothing less can be said. We've found ourselves in tight places and experienced the good(Marcus), the bad(Coppell) & the ugly(Hebron). We will be stronger for it provided it is not allowed to destroy us. The kids deserve our support. The coaches deserve our support. There is nothing more to say. Does all of this mean you cannot be upset with playcalling, penalties or in game decisions? Of course it doesn't. If it did the emotions I go through just listening to a broadcast would make me a hypocrite for posting these thoughts. What it means is that you all need to present yourself and act in a manner that is reflective of a standard you have place on this program. You cannot hold something up high, setting it on a pedestal, claiming to be part of it and then behave in a manner that is less than.

The 2008 Dragons are a young, talented squad. They have had their ups and downs. They will continue to thrill and disappoint. They are kids striving to acheive. They have games left to play and memories yet to make. For their efforts, I say thank you. For the thrills they provide me, I am in debt. For the heartbreak that sometimes comes because I love them, I am not angry. If you are unwilling to take the bad, you do not deserve the good. 6-2 with one more to go before the second season. Let's finish up strong and get ready for a run because wehn it's win or go home, anything can happen.:cool:

Well said brother... Well said..

Now the important question.... Other then the game.. Did your wife have a nice birthday?

I hope so.. and I actually thought of you when I seen a young lady with a big belly walk by....:D

SLC93
11-03-2008, 09:01 AM
Well said brother... Well said..

Now the important question.... Other then the game.. Did your wife have a nice birthday?

I hope so.. and I actually thought of you when I seen a young lady with a big belly walk by....:D

Had a great evening, my friend. Spent some quality time with friends and family eating some choice steaks. Thanks for the thoughts. I'll be sure and tell the mrs. that fat chicks make you think of her.;):D

SLC
11-03-2008, 09:10 AM
Had a great evening, my friend. Spent some quality time with friends and family eating some choice steaks. Thanks for the thoughts. I'll be sure and tell the mrs. that fat chicks make you think of her.;):D


Glad it was good for yall... time with family and friends is what matters in life..;)

And dont you dare tell her what I said... Regardless if you say I said it or not.. She is a female, so she will only take these 3 things from that comment..

1.Fat

2. Her

3. The words came from your mouth


None of that helps you and she will never let you live it down...:D

SLC93
11-03-2008, 09:24 AM
Glad it was good for yall... time with family and friends is what matters in life..;)

And dont you dare tell her what I said... Regardless if you say I said it or not.. She is a female, so she will only take these 3 things from that comment..

1.Fat

2. Her

3. The words came from your mouth


None of that helps you and she will never let you live it down...:D


Wisdom noted.:D

kahuna
11-03-2008, 09:28 AM
You my friend need to be careful who you are talking too and who you are calling out....I have lived in this program for a while now! Seen a lot and experienced a lot. I do know what I am talking about when it comes to football sir. I have seen bad tackling from an our defense... I have seen no intensity what so ever, when you give up two 95 yard TD drives and no one comes to the sideline with any anger or any intensity something is wrong. Prepared?? How is giving up 308 yards to one kid, 484 yards rushing to a team that only ran for 175 on the bottom team in the district the week before, how can you call that prepared? Very unprepared in my opinion. I am not blaming anyone, I think our coaches are at fault as much as our kids are. The coaches are supposed to teach tackling and the kids need to execute. We simply have not so I do not know who the blame for that. If you have a problem with my posts I would love to talk with you in a private message, but do not call me out on here. And who ever said I was sitting in the stands? You have no idea where I sit, or stand for that matter. I am not back stabbing anyone, I hope our coaches can recognize the many problems we have with this team. So I would communicate it with them if they asked my opinion. But they wont, so no need to.

If you are not some player's daddy then fine. But it is simply the way parents view things now. "My kid didn't perform up to our expectations, so let's blame anyone but our player." Coaches sacrifice for their respective programs more than people will ever know. Thet spend twice the amount of time with our boys than we do. They work 7 days a week from August through December. The leave the house when their kids are asleep and come home to the exact same scene. They are overworked and underpaid. They all could make much more elsewhere. But they choose to coach the Dragons. Their desire to win eclipses ours. Their job depends on it.

crunked9
11-03-2008, 09:29 AM
Not going there. I have already stated that the numbers at the key positions compare with past champions. IMO, it is not fair to the kids to compare them with their hero's from past, or to get into a discussion that this player is better than the player on the xx team.

It is not always about the numbers.

Sometimes it is about the IT factor

And I just don't see it from this team.

But if you want to tell me about the numbers I'd love to hear them.

15Adragon
11-03-2008, 09:51 AM
It is not always about the numbers.

Sometimes it is about the IT factor

And I just don't see it from this team.

But if you want to tell me about the numbers I'd love to hear them.

Dragon brother, I would love to but I just don't think that we need to go there. It will ultimately lead to moving dragons into 1 of 2 camps - bad coaching or players aren't as good and we will get another house call from the good Dr. The coaches and players don't need this right now.

Let's get behind the whole program and beat L'ville on senior night at DS and then start the post season against an old rival. That sounds like fun to me. :)

kahuna
11-03-2008, 10:05 AM
Dragon brother, I would love to but I just don't think that we need to go there. It will ultimately lead to moving dragons into 1 of 2 camps - bad coaching or players aren't as good and we will get another house call from the good Dr. The coaches and players don't need this right now.

Let's get behind the whole program and beat L'ville on senior night at DS and then start the post season against an old rival. That sounds like fun to me. :)


Awesome post. Let's all stop the finger pointing and worry about this week. This program needs our support now more than ever.

crunked9
11-03-2008, 10:16 AM
I agree! We need to kill those fight'n Farmers! I plan on being there!
And we better win cause my good buddy from college is the son of the former coach(Ronnie Gage) and he was a former player there! So, I need something to talk mess to him about.

SLC93
11-03-2008, 10:25 AM
Dragon brother, I would love to but I just don't think that we need to go there. It will ultimately lead to moving dragons into 1 of 2 camps - bad coaching or players aren't as good and we will get another house call from the good Dr. The coaches and players don't need this right now.

Let's get behind the whole program and beat L'ville on senior night at DS and then start the post season against an old rival. That sounds like fun to me. :)

From an old dragon to an even more.......experienced Dragon I agree.;):D

SLC93
11-03-2008, 10:26 AM
I agree! We need to kill those fight'n Farmers! I plan on being there!
And we better win cause my good buddy from college is the son of the former coach(Ronnie Gage) and he was a former player there! So, I need something to talk mess to him about.

Down with the Farmers! The Dragons shall bring famine to the heartland harvesters!:D

DragonFan0316
11-03-2008, 10:31 AM
Are we in the playoffs or do we need to beat Lewisville. My calculations say we are in but I am by no means an expert. Thanks.

yankee
11-03-2008, 10:47 AM
DP directed an O that had 430+ yards and no turnovers in a Dist championship game with the D spying on him and delivering punishing hits. That was a solid performance by a QB in his 3rd game. Nuf said.

not denying what DP does when he's running the offense...just noting some of the sudden changes of who would be better running the offense for some fans...the offense can certainly be more exciting under piland, because who doesn't want to see a qb leave db's in his dust? the dude is slick and fast...but IMO, the offense is more effective under padron...in the end, we all know that dp and kp got game...

SWMHebron
11-03-2008, 10:47 AM
Probable loss? there's a reason they play 48 minutes lady. Check the stats. SLC outgained Trinity in total yards. The state title came because we beat a ton of undefeated teams along the way. Coaches make decisions. Lineweaver has forgotten more football than you'll ever know. Stick to dance or whatever that crap is the wings do.

Since this is a football board I will not go into the nuances of dance technique. Back to back national dance champions was not easy and even the football players have been impressed by the amount of work the Wings put in. They finished 3rd last year (out of 16) -- 6 points away from first and 4 out of second (out of a possible 300 points) with 30 rookies and 10 vets.

We have been after the drill team director for years to do a football game hip hop. She decided Halloween was a good time. Granted it doesn't show up as well on the field as in the competitions or in the gym for pep rallies.

And I was a drill team mom for 3 years. I have been a football fan for much, much longer.

drgnbkr
11-03-2008, 10:50 AM
Since this is a football board I will not go into the nuances of dance technique. Back to back national dance champions was not easy and even the football players have been impressed by the amount of work the Wings put in. They finished 3rd last year (out of 16) -- 6 points away from first and 4 out of second (out of a possible 300 points) with 30 rookies and 10 vets.

We have been after the drill team director for years to do a football game hip hop. She decided Halloween was a good time. Granted it doesn't show up as well on the field as in the competitions or in the gym for pep rallies.

And I was a drill team mom for 3 years. I have been a football fan for much, much longer.

Mom, we can't all be tactful...I loved the girls show. I like it when they do something different as your girls did with the halloween costumes. Except for the getting drilled part, it was an enjoyable visit to Hawkland!

SLC93
11-03-2008, 11:01 AM
not denying what DP does when he's running the offense...just noting some of the sudden changes of who would be better running the offense for some fans...the offense can certainly be more exciting under piland, because who doesn't want to see a qb leave db's in his dust? the dude is slick and fast...but IMO, the offense is more effective under padron...in the end, we all know that dp and kp got game...

They both have game, undeniable talents that are unique in comparison to rpevious editions. I will say this. KP was well on his way to having the type of season we associate with Carroll qb's. He's the real deal. His experience and leadership were/are exactly what a young team needs. The fact that his talent is considerable, too, is almost gravy. He also has the benefit of growing up in this system. Piland does not and that is a point that has been dramatically under played. DP has great talent and a unique skill set. He's done a very good job, especially under the circumastance. The team is having to adapt and they are trying hard to get up to speed and on the same page. Make no mistake, though, this team is Padron's and needs him back. If he is able to return for the post season and Carroll wants to get creative using Piland, too, things could get real interesting.

SLC
11-03-2008, 11:09 AM
They both have game, undeniable talents that are unique in comparison to rpevious editions. I will say this. KP was well on his way to having the type of season we associate with Carroll qb's. He's the real deal. His experience and leadership were/are exactly what a young team needs. The fact that his talent is considerable, too, is almost gravy. He also has the benefit of growing up in this system. Piland does not and that is a point that has been dramatically under played. DP has great talent and a unique skill set. He's done a very good job, especially under the circumastance. The team is having to adapt and they are trying hard to get up to speed and on the same page. Make no mistake, though, this team is Padron's and needs him back. If he is able to return for the post season and Carroll wants to get creative using Piland, too, things could get real interesting.

It certainly could... At this point we need to help the defense as much as possible and that is with a earth shattering offense and Kyle can give this offense the jolt it needs...we may have to pass our way through the playoffs and Kyle will do that no doubt..

SLC93
11-03-2008, 11:30 AM
It certainly could... At this point we need to help the defense as much as possible and that is with a earth shattering offense and Kyle can give this offense the jolt it needs...we may have to pass our way through the playoffs and Kyle will do that no doubt..

You know how Dodge always felt. The best cure for a struggling defense is ruthless offense. Seriously, at this point in their developments Padron can keep a defense honest in ways Piland can't. That is no indictment on the young man. It comes with experience and preparation. He'll get there in a hurry, of that I'm confident. KP could gun sling us several rounds deep on his own. Problem will be timing, rhythm and conditioning after an extended time away from the game. We're no dead, yet. Wounded, perhaps, but still here and not leaving until we're forced to.

SLC93
11-03-2008, 11:36 AM
I have seen a Carroll team go 10-0 in the regular season and had no idea how they did so ...... 1995 District Champs led by Chance Caple//We're all still trying to figure that one out.:D
In fact, the perhaps the best team that I have ever watched at Carroll played 3A ball and did so in a matter that likely would have dominated most every 5A team that season........1992 State Champions//We were glad to entertain you, Doc.;):D

I apologize for the edited quote, Doc. As always, your analysis was spot on throughout the entirity of your post. For those that may not have know which squads you were refering to in the above references, I thought I would take the liberty to clear it up.;)

SLCbacker
11-03-2008, 12:38 PM
I dont believe he threw the kids under the bus... I just dont think you say that to a radio station... Thats my opinion and others have their opinion, in my mind when dealing with kids..teenagers... you dont want say they didnt want to win as badly as the other team... I would have worded it differently..Period.
I am one that thought and I still think David brings his own style, much like any of the Carroll QB's do... My main point was that, if David is playing well he should keep playing... even if Kyle is healthy... I personally think I have seen great play by David... Its just that now that its apparent we cant stop the run on defense for whatever reason, it becomes evident we will have to throw alot to win.. Under that scenario I think Kyle would do better...

Completely agree. Poor judgment. Poor leadership.

toonman
11-03-2008, 01:48 PM
Tackling! Or lack of! Fundimentals.

And i know people say that is the coaches fault. But don't players learn to tackle in middle school?

Don't players learn fundimentals in the sub-varsity levels of the program?

So, blamming that on the coach doesn't fit with me. Since Wasson has been in the program two years.

Just thoughts

I beg to differ. I thought that Todd Dodge had installed the "Carroll System" to every level of football played in every school in Southlake. If there is such a system at all schools at all levels; then the responsibility does lie with the Head Coach.

SLCDad
11-03-2008, 02:08 PM
A few facts for SLC fans to chew on:

Here is the demise of SLC.

Team…………..…...……W-L-T……….Pct……League W-L-T…….PF PA………Streak
Carroll……………...…… 6-2-0…...…..0.750………..2-2-0………….317 203……...1 L
Hebron………………….. 6-3-0..…..….0.667……….4-0-0…………..238 201…….. 6 W
Coppell………………….. 6-3-0………. 0.667……….2-2-0…………..343 234……...1 W
Flower Mound……....6-3-0……..... 0.667……...1-3-0…………..287 159……….2 L
Marcus…………………. 5-4-0………...0.556……...3-1-0…………...276 199………2 W
Lewisville………………. 2-7-0………….0.222……...0-4-0…………...147 228……... 6 L

It's not what we are used to seeing.

Freeman rates 6-5A the 15th toughest league in the nation and 2nd in Texas 5A.

SLC had two games cancelled due to hurricane Ike and has only played 3 home games this year so far.

SLC's Strength of Schedule is in the Top 10 in the USA (top 1000 teams all states, all divisions).

SLC
11-03-2008, 02:36 PM
You know how Dodge always felt. The best cure for a struggling defense is ruthless offense. Seriously, at this point in their developments Padron can keep a defense honest in ways Piland can't. That is no indictment on the young man. It comes with experience and preparation. He'll get there in a hurry, of that I'm confident. KP could gun sling us several rounds deep on his own. Problem will be timing, rhythm and conditioning after an extended time away from the game. We're no dead, yet. Wounded, perhaps, but still here and not leaving until we're forced to.


This is one of the reasons I said David should play the rest of the season.. That and running ability... But right now you are correct in that the best defense is a good offense and Kyle can (right now) make some throws that David cannot... If Kyle is able to come in and take up where he left off, then he should.

SLC93
11-03-2008, 02:38 PM
A few facts for SLC fans to chew on:

Here is the demise of SLC.

Team…………..…...……W-L-T……….Pct……League W-L-T…….PF PA………Streak
Carroll……………...…… 6-2-0…...…..0.750………..2-2-0………….317 203……...1 L
Hebron………………….. 6-3-0..…..….0.667……….4-0-0…………..238 201…….. 6 W
Coppell………………….. 6-3-0………. 0.667……….2-2-0…………..343 234……...1 W
Flower Mound……....6-3-0……..... 0.667……...1-3-0…………..287 159……….2 L
Marcus…………………. 5-4-0………...0.556……...3-1-0…………...276 199………2 W
Lewisville………………. 2-7-0………….0.222……...0-4-0…………...147 228……... 6 L

It's not what we are used to seeing.

Freeman rates 6-5A the 15th toughest league in the nation and 2nd in Texas 5A.

SLC had two games cancelled due to hurricane Ike and has only played 3 home games this year so far.

SLC's Strength of Schedule is in the Top 10 in the USA (top 1000 teams all states, all divisions).


Good stuff. People are quick to forget about the havoc the hurricanes played on this season for us from a rhythm standpoint. This team is young and had to deal with, basically, two bye weeks. About the time you really thought they were going to get rolling they had a ten day to two week layoff. The additional practice reps had value but could not dupilcate what the games were worth.

The district we now play in is no joke. As fans we have to adjust to this. Doesn't mean we have to accept losing but it does mean that we have to understand that our opponents, week to week, are stronger. I do not know how one would be able to rank all the leagues and districts in the country but it is nice to know 6-5A is thought of as stout. If you look at the numbers, we're still in very good shape. We have much to correct on the field, without question, but the chance to heal up a bit a make a post season run is still there. We'll see how the kids and coaches respond.

Bottom line? We gotta get a move on, focus and start playing the inspired brand of football these kids have flashed to us all season. The fact remains that we are a spoiled group of people. Carroll has won everyone of it's state titles by way of a perfect record. The only time we lost a state game, we entered with a perfect record. No team is state history can say the same. what we all have to embrace is that the 6-0 from November to December is the only undefeated that matters.

SLC
11-03-2008, 02:39 PM
A few facts for SLC fans to chew on:

Here is the demise of SLC.

Team…………..…...……W-L-T……….Pct……League W-L-T…….PF PA………Streak
Carroll……………...…… 6-2-0…...…..0.750………..2-2-0………….317 203……...1 L
Hebron………………….. 6-3-0..…..….0.667……….4-0-0…………..238 201…….. 6 W
Coppell………………….. 6-3-0………. 0.667……….2-2-0…………..343 234……...1 W
Flower Mound……....6-3-0……..... 0.667……...1-3-0…………..287 159……….2 L
Marcus…………………. 5-4-0………...0.556……...3-1-0…………...276 199………2 W
Lewisville………………. 2-7-0………….0.222……...0-4-0…………...147 228……... 6 L

It's not what we are used to seeing.

Freeman rates 6-5A the 15th toughest league in the nation and 2nd in Texas 5A.

SLC had two games cancelled due to hurricane Ike and has only played 3 home games this year so far.

SLC's Strength of Schedule is in the Top 10 in the USA (top 1000 teams all states, all divisions).


There is no doubt this is part of the equasion no doubt about it Dad... And there are also others... mostly injuries.

slcdragonfan
11-03-2008, 02:46 PM
Good stuff. People are quick to forget about the havoc the hurricanes played on this season for us from a rhythm standpoint. This team is young and had to deal with, basically, two bye weeks. About the time you really thought they were going to get rolling they had a ten day to two week layoff. The additional practice reps had value but could not dupilcate what the games were worth.

The district we now play in is no joke. As fans we have to adjust to this. Doesn't mean we have to accept losing but it does mean that we have to understand that our opponents, week to week, are stronger. I do not know how one would be able to rank all the leagues and districts in the country but it is nice to know 6-5A is thought of as stout. If you look at the numbers, we're still in very good shape. We have much to correct on the field, without question, but the chance to heal up a bit a make a post season run is still there. We'll see how the kids and coaches respond.

Bottom line? We gotta get a move on, focus and start playing the inspired brand of football these kids have flashed to us all season. The fact remains that we are a spoiled group of people. Carroll has won everyone of it's state titles by way of a perfect record. The only time we lost a state game, we entered with a perfect record. No team is state history can say the same. what we all have to embrace is that the 6-0 from November to December is the only undefeated that matters.

That was the point of my earlier post. At this point, we are 0-0, and need to win 7 in a row. Nothing else matters in the past except working on any and all issues which keep us from getting there. I think it can be done based upon the team I saw in 7 of the 8 games so far.

Pinion
11-03-2008, 03:26 PM
stopping in to say hi. and roflslclostandiwasrightaboutit. :eek:

SLCfan2407
11-03-2008, 03:33 PM
If you are not some player's daddy then fine. But it is simply the way parents view things now. "My kid didn't perform up to our expectations, so let's blame anyone but our player." Coaches sacrifice for their respective programs more than people will ever know. Thet spend twice the amount of time with our boys than we do. They work 7 days a week from August through December. The leave the house when their kids are asleep and come home to the exact same scene. They are overworked and underpaid. They all could make much more elsewhere. But they choose to coach the Dragons. Their desire to win eclipses ours. Their job depends on it.

They knew what they were getting into when they took the job here at Carroll. TD and RM and Drake, none of those guys seemed to be bothered by the long hours?? These coaches do work their tails off, and they teach our kids a lot of great lessons that will help them not only be succesful on the field, but off the field as well when the time comes for them to hang up their cleats. However me stating that no adjustments were made in the second half was an obvious to many. If coach wilson asked my opinion I would share it with him no problem. I was listening to Doc Rivers interview the other afternoon on TV, the reporter asked how he feels about the Boston fans and how they booed he and his team for a couple years and then after they won they sang their praises. Doc answered, "that is the beautiful ugly of coaching, the fans want their teams to win, who doesnt, so I have no problem hearing the criticism because it means I have to get better, and I have to get my team better." What an interesting comment, I like it, shows he has to get better along with his team. I have no problems with our coaches I think they are great for our kids on and off the field. However, something needs to be done for this team to win, and that is what I want to see. I want to see them win as a team. Not only for our kids sake, but Wasson's as well, people around the area can quit talking about TD and what he would do, if Wasson could put one run together of his own. I am hoping it is this year for my son's sake, as well as Hal's sake. Because like you said, they work tirelessly, I want to see it pay off for the entire team.

Also I stated earlier that the problem is just as much our coaches fault as it was our kids fault.

Good Luck this week boys, we will be rooting for you!

dragons08
11-03-2008, 04:29 PM
stopping in to say hi. and roflslclostandiwasrightaboutit. :eek:

A broken clock is right twice a day.

CSRadioGuy
11-03-2008, 04:56 PM
Are we in the playoffs or do we need to beat Lewisville. My calculations say we are in but I am by no means an expert. Thanks.


Well, I consider myself to be some-what of an expert and here's what I've come up with for Carroll. Carroll wins and they're in. If Coppell wins, Carroll is in regardless of how you play against Lewisville. If both Carroll and Coppell lose, then there is a three-way tie for the two bottom playoff spots resulting in what I believe would be a coin flip.

There are other scenerios to further muddy the waters of playoff seedings and who goes div-I or div-II. Basically as far as Carroll is concerned you want to win or at least want Coppell to win so that Flower Mound doesn't sneak into the picture if you lose. You've guaranteed at least a coin-flip, though if you do lose. No matter what though, if Carroll makes the playoffs, they are automatically division-II.

There's my two cents.

Maxthedog
11-03-2008, 05:11 PM
Well, I consider myself to be some-what of an expert and here's what I've come up with for Carroll. Carroll wins and they're in. If Coppell wins, Carroll is in regardless of how you play against Lewisville. If both Carroll and Coppell lose, then there is a three-way tie for the two bottom playoff spots resulting in what I believe would be a coin flip.

There are other scenerios to further muddy the waters of playoff seedings and who goes div-I or div-II. Basically as far as Carroll is concerned you want to win or at least want Coppell to win so that Flower Mound doesn't sneak into the picture if you lose. You've guaranteed at least a coin-flip, though if you do lose. No matter what though, if Carroll makes the playoffs, they are automatically division-II.

There's my two cents.

THAT is a good 2 cents worth. I will take it!
Last year we didn't look too good going into the PO's and all the sudden caught fire. We know the rest of the story, the good news is, by week 3, if we lose our QB, we will have another one just as good. Tee it up and win Friday night and go into the PO's ready.

Pinion
11-03-2008, 05:17 PM
A broken clock is right twice a day.


Perhaps, but a clock isnt right about SLC losing twice in district and then once in playoffs (which I will be right about that too).

Dont hate.. :D

SLC
11-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Perhaps, but a clock isnt right about SLC losing twice in district and then once in playoffs (which I will be right about that too).

Dont hate.. :D

Shut it...

Pinion
11-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Shut it...

:Drofl:D

I cant tell you how I appreciate you making me laff at work duing the day. Thanks. :cool:

trojanbacker
11-03-2008, 07:33 PM
When do you guys get your linebacker/kicker back?

PantherStang84
11-03-2008, 07:35 PM
I did until last year... We live in Sherman now... I am origionally from Denison and my wife is from Sherman... We moved from Sherman to Austin in 1992 and from Austin to Southlake in 1996 and just moved back to Sherman last year when my wife went to work for Wison N. Jones hospital in Sherman... To keep her from having to make the drive back and forth... I was already driving alot anyway, so the move didnt change anything for me..

Hey I fell in love with the Dragon program as soon as we moved there and even cheered for them against Sherman in 1998 and 2002, and against Denison in 2002.. And I am a Denison alum... So there ya go..

Oooooo. Wait a minute. You cheered against your own school?
Dude. :eek:

That's kind of creepy.

15Adragon
11-03-2008, 07:43 PM
When do you guys get your linebacker/kicker back?
He played against Hebron.

LAHawk
11-03-2008, 07:50 PM
He played against Hebron.

And did a he:Censor: of a job, too!

dragonbuck
11-03-2008, 09:11 PM
My family moved to Carroll in 1983. I attended CISD from the third grade until graduation in the spiring of 1993. The best team our school ever fielded was my senior year squad, the 1992 Carroll Dragons. My memories take me as far back as the Uldrich, Walker, Blanchard, Rieddel backfield of 1987, the best starting backfield our school has ever known.

Things for all of you to remember. First, never question the kids, period. What it takes to be a student athlete today far surpasses what any of our experiences were.

Second, when you choose the easy path in one thing you will choose it in all things. Wasson and his staff need to step up their game, no doubt, but to participate in pages of dialouge speculating on their competence level is not only embarrassing, it degrades the program.

Third, a program is like a war. It is not made into a winner year to year, season to season, battle to battle or game to game. It is forged over time, sometimes decades. It is a constant struggle for forward movement. The young men who comprise it's ranks and their leaders embody sacrifice and committment. It is made in January and February workouts as much as it is in practice of week four.

Next, if the team is a reflection of it's fans and community then make sure your mirror is clean. I find it amusing to ready the tone of many of these posts. Their content is laced with innuendo and accusation. We accuse or infer things from what we see on the field and now many express displeasure with what they see. The issue is many of the perceived problems on the field are present in the accusatory material. I would encourage every one of you to be as dedicated, as committed and as disciplined with your work here as you would like to see from our program right now.

Finally, the measure of anyone's merit is not found during the celebration but, rather, the despair. now, allow me to remind all of you that despair is a relative term as it applies to Carroll and this situation. Also remember that we have been spolied and pampered by a program that has given us long stretches with nothing to be concerned about. This season has brought more challenge than we are accustomed too. Nothing more & nothing less can be said. We've found ourselves in tight places and experienced the good(Marcus), the bad(Coppell) & the ugly(Hebron). We will be stronger for it provided it is not allowed to destroy us. The kids deserve our support. The coaches deserve our support. There is nothing more to say. Does all of this mean you cannot be upset with playcalling, penalties or in game decisions? Of course it doesn't. If it did the emotions I go through just listening to a broadcast would make me a hypocrite for posting these thoughts. What it means is that you all need to present yourself and act in a manner that is reflective of a standard you have place on this program. You cannot hold something up high, setting it on a pedestal, claiming to be part of it and then behave in a manner that is less than.

The 2008 Dragons are a young, talented squad. They have had their ups and downs. They will continue to thrill and disappoint. They are kids striving to acheive. They have games left to play and memories yet to make. For their efforts, I say thank you. For the thrills they provide me, I am in debt. For the heartbreak that sometimes comes because I love them, I am not angry. If you are unwilling to take the bad, you do not deserve the good. 6-2 with one more to go before the second season. Let's finish up strong and get ready for a run because wehn it's win or go home, anything can happen.:cool:

I think we need you to visit the Dragon team (ala Dave Campo at Coppell) and help fire these guys up. Your history and wisdom would go a long way:notworthy

ScottS
11-03-2008, 09:11 PM
Well, I consider myself to be some-what of an expert and here's what I've come up with for Carroll. Carroll wins and they're in. If Coppell wins, Carroll is in regardless of how you play against Lewisville. If both Carroll and Coppell lose, then there is a three-way tie for the two bottom playoff spots resulting in what I believe would be a coin flip.

There are other scenerios to further muddy the waters of playoff seedings and who goes div-I or div-II. Basically as far as Carroll is concerned you want to win or at least want Coppell to win so that Flower Mound doesn't sneak into the picture if you lose. You've guaranteed at least a coin-flip, though if you do lose. No matter what though, if Carroll makes the playoffs, they are automatically division-II.

There's my two cents.

Isn't there a points tie-braker? Also, is there really a coin flip?

HebronHawk
11-03-2008, 09:29 PM
When do you guys get your linebacker/kicker back?

Cade Foster played against Hebron. He had a pretty good game. His kicks were awesome.

dragonbuck
11-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Now I'm really confused (so what else is new, right?) I understood that we were in even with a loss and a FM win. we would tie FM, at 2-3, but would get in because we beat them head-to-head.

Not true???

Where's DragonDaddy when you need him?

Grapeguy
11-03-2008, 10:07 PM
I have tried to restrain myself in this thread and so far have managed to do so. I will now give in. To answer crunked's question, I have been a part of Dragon football as a fan for two decades now. The fact that they have, for the most part, been astoundingly successful seasons sure has made it easy to be a Carroll fan. But there have been some down years as well. All of Ledbetter's teams were not great, but a few most definitely were. Rapp also managed to put a very good team on the field once or twice. Dodge's record speaks for itself at the 5A level, but the inital years at Carroll were less than overwhelming. So far in his head coaching career at Carroll, Hal Wasson is 17-4 or a winning percentage of 81%.

I have seen a Carroll team go 10-0 in the regular season and had no idea how they did so, as that team was simply not all that good. Yet, other 10-0 teams with the identical 10-0 regular season record were among the best that have ever been seen in Texas high school football and they were not all achieved under Todd Dodge. In fact, the perhaps the best team that I have ever watched at Carroll played 3A ball and did so in a matter that likely would have dominated most every 5A team that season.

Coaching is essential and Carroll has been blessed with good ones; Hal Wasson is one of the good ones. He is not Todd Dodge and does not have Dodge's personality. He did not "throw" the players under the bus last Friday in his comments. It was pretty clear to most folks that Hebron was decidedly fired up for the game from their fans to their players. If the Carroll fans were not, then that is our fault, not the coaches or the players; if the players were not fired up for the game, then the coaches decidedly have some degree of responsibility for that, but it is also not entirely upon them. The young men on the field have to take the responsibility for their attitude as well. In fact, that is one of the primary lessons that participation in sports should teach any of us. "Protect the Tradition" does not refer to tailgating in the parking lots before the games. Nor is it some silly tee-shirt slogan. It is meant to reflect what a very special thing that Carroll High School has going and has had going since before I got here. It is not all about football or athletics. It is among one of the reasons why some of us very much engaged in defending this high school against the ravages that certain past school boards wanted to inflict on this district. Not because of some potential impact on a football program, but on something much more fundamental. It is something that requires an emotional committment and the players and the coaches and the fans have to have it in them. Just what a special thing the Carroll schools really are in this community.

The book is hardly closed on the current incarnation of the football Dragons. Just as essential as good coaching is the availability and capability of student-athletes. Certainly Carroll has been blessed for over twenty years with some astoundingly good ones. Not only good on the field, but good in the classroom as well. This school has placed a relatively large number of students from the ball teams in the service acadamies, in Ivy league schools and some other outstanding universities. As I recall, there has even been a perfect SAT score sent out from among the football participants. I will refuse to comment in any detail on any current player on here; just don't think it is right to do so, at least not until after the season is complete and it is not yet completed. I will only state that as some of us discussed prior to the season, that Carroll's team this season was overrated at the beginning of the year. This year's team returned virtually no one on offense and relatively few on defense from a very good team last season that had the potential to win yet another state title. The 2008 team has suffered a number of losses amoing starters from a newly created group of Dragons on both sides of the ball, some of which we will not likely see back again this season. Yet others have stepped in and the record is still 6-2.

Will the Dragons make a deep run in the playoffs this year? Probably not. The odds are against most teams doing so. But they might; it has happened before. The players will likely be called upon to play over their heads, just as other Carroll teams have been called upon to do in the face of some adversity in the past. (Vernon, Lufkin, Trinity, Abilene, Katy immediately come to mind in the playoffs.) But whether the current crop of Dragons is successful in doing so or not, I will still be a fan of Carroll, its kids and its coaches.

Pretty much my sentiments Doc..just written more eloquently than I could have stated it here. Perhaps this team can emulate the 2001 team. That team struggled to get to the post-season but had a great run in the POs. Remember??? We revenged a previous year PO loss to Wichita Falls, shut out Andrews at Ratliff (didn't they score 35 on us the year before?), beat a very good Frenship team that included NFL'er David Thomas and held eventual champs G Harrell & Co. to 7 in the first half (I won't discuss the 2nd half:D).

DrEdward
11-03-2008, 11:42 PM
Pretty much my sentiments Doc..just written more eloquently than I could have stated it here. Perhaps this team can emulate the 2001 team. That team struggled to get to the post-season but had a great run in the POs. Remember??? We revenged a previous year PO loss to Wichita Falls, shut out Andrews at Ratliff (didn't they score 35 on us the year before?), beat a very good Frenship team that included NFL'er David Thomas and held eventual champs G Harrell & Co. to 7 in the first half (I won't discuss the 2nd half:D).

Was there a second half to that game? :rolleyes:

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:12 AM
Now I'm really confused (so what else is new, right?) I understood that we were in even with a loss and a FM win. we would tie FM, at 2-3, but would get in because we beat them head-to-head.

Not true???

Where's DragonDaddy when you need him?

We own the head to head against FM, period. Win, lose or draw Carroll is the 2 seed in the DII bracket.

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:16 AM
Pretty much my sentiments Doc..just written more eloquently than I could have stated it here. Perhaps this team can emulate the 2001 team. That team struggled to get to the post-season but had a great run in the POs. Remember??? We revenged a previous year PO loss to Wichita Falls, shut out Andrews at Ratliff (didn't they score 35 on us the year before?), beat a very good Frenship team that included NFL'er David Thomas and held eventual champs G Harrell & Co. to 7 in the first half (I won't discuss the 2nd half:D).

Timing is everything, I agree. This team has shown that they can be very good. With a great close at home against Lewisville I could see them getting on a roll. That 01 comparison was interesting, too. It's a good example of how the post season is it's own animal. I choose to believe these kids will work things out. If I'm wrong it won't be the first time. Faith means everything and costs nothing.

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:17 AM
Was there a second half to that game? :rolleyes:

Ouch! I can still smell the scorch if I breathe deep enough.:mad:;)

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:20 AM
I think we need you to visit the Dragon team (ala Dave Campo at Coppell) and help fire these guys up. Your history and wisdom would go a long way:notworthy

Too kind, my friend. I think that I'd defer to the good Doc. He's got me trumped in all of the above categories and more. Fortunately, I'm quite pretty so my looks tend to mask my deficiencies.:D

CSRadioGuy
11-04-2008, 07:25 AM
We own the head to head against FM, period. Win, lose or draw Carroll is the 2 seed in the DII bracket.

But you don't own the tie-breaker over Coppell. Remember that game? Flower Mound is playing Coppell. That's why you want Coppell to beat them. If Coppell loses and you lose, then Flower Mound, Coppell and Carroll will all be 2-3 in district play. That's a three-way tie for two playoff spots. Flower Mound will have beaten Coppell, Coppell will have beaten Carroll and Carroll would have beaten Flower Mound. That's why there would have to be a coin flip. (unless 6-5A's rule is point differential, but it's my understanding that it's a flip -- I've been following 5-5A all season) Check this very site's playoff bracket -- it even says Carroll is not automatic yet.

The other point I forgot to make is that if Carroll is in, they will play Heritage in the first round because they are locked in as the 5-5A division II champion.

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:30 AM
My family moved to Carroll in 1983. I attended CISD from the third grade until graduation in the spring of 1993. The best team our school ever fielded was my senior year squad, the 1992 Carroll Dragons. My memories take me as far back as the Uldrich, Walker, Blanchard, Rieddel backfield of 1987, the best starting backfield our school has ever known.

Things for all of you to remember. First, never question the kids, period. What it takes to be a student athlete today far surpasses what any of our experiences were.

Second, when you choose the easy path in one thing you will choose it in all things. Wasson and his staff need to step up their game, no doubt, but to participate in pages of dialouge speculating on their competence level is not only embarrassing, it degrades the program.

Third, a program is like a war. It is not made into a winner year to year, season to season, battle to battle or game to game. It is forged over time, sometimes decades. It is a constant struggle for forward movement. The young men who comprise it's ranks and their leaders embody sacrifice and committment. It is made in January and February workouts as much as it is in practice of week four.

Next, if the team is a reflection of it's fans and community then make sure your mirror is clean. I find it amusing to read the tone of many of these posts. Their content is laced with innuendo and accusation. We accuse or infer things from what we see on the field and, now, many express displeasure with what they see. The issue is many of the perceived problems on the field are present in the accusatory material. I would encourage every one of you to be as dedicated, as committed and as disciplined with your work here as you would like to see from our program right now. I do not accept the presence of a double standard in this area. You cannot have it both ways.

Finally, the measure of anyone's merit is not found during the celebration but, rather, the despair. Now, allow me to remind all of you that despair is a relative term, as it applies to Carroll and this situation. Also remember that we have been spoiled and pampered by a program that has given us long stretches with nothing to be concerned about. This season has brought more challenge than we are accustomed to. Nothing more & nothing less can be said. We've found ourselves in tight places and experienced the good(Marcus), the bad(Coppell) & the ugly(Hebron). We will be stronger for it, provided it is not allowed to destroy us. The kids deserve our support. The coaches deserve our support. There is nothing more to say. Does all of this mean you cannot be upset with playcalling, penalties or in game decisions? Of course it doesn't. If it did, the emotions I go through just listening to a broadcast would make me a hypocrite for posting these thoughts. What it means is that you all need to present yourself and act in a manner that is reflective of the standard you have placed on this program. You cannot hold something up high, setting it on a pedestal, claim to be part of it and then behave in a manner that is less than.

The 2008 Dragons are a young, talented squad. They have had their ups and downs. They will continue to thrill and disappoint. They are kids striving to acheive. They have games left to play and memories yet to make. For their efforts, I say thank you. For the thrills they provide me, I am in debt. For the heartbreak that sometimes comes because I love them, I am not angry. If you are unwilling to take the bad, you do not deserve the good. 6-2 with one more to go before the second season. Let's finish up strong and get ready for a run because wehn it's win or go home, anything can happen.:cool:

I promise this is not a shameless bump of a post I wrote. It is an example of why we need a spell check option. I'm a tad compulsive about my spelling. It does not bother me when others have errors. I'm not a member of the grammar police, by any means. It only applies to myself, this weird obsession. Anyone else have trouble spelling while on a soap box or wrapped in a rant?:D

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:32 AM
:Drofl:D

I cant tell you how I appreciate you making me laff at work duing the day. Thanks. :cool:


Glad I could be of assistance....;)

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:33 AM
When do you guys get your linebacker/kicker back?

He is playing sparingly.... He proly shouldnt be though... But Cade is a trooper..

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:34 AM
Oooooo. Wait a minute. You cheered against your own school?
Dude. :eek:

That's kind of creepy.



Hey when you sell out to support a team, you dont change even when they play your own...:cool:

LAHawk
11-04-2008, 07:36 AM
I have to say this about you guys, ya'll were a lot more fun to spar with than the Marcus crowd. The Marcus/Hebron thread got hi-jacked by Junior High football talk.:confused:

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:40 AM
I have to say this about you guys, ya'll were a lot more fun to spar with than the Marcus crowd. The Marcus/Hebron thread got hi-jacked by Junior High football talk.:confused:

Forgive Marcus. It's been so long since they were relevant, many of their fans don't remember how to behave. Their players grew up hearing of tradition but never seeing it on the field. It's a shame the way that program was allowed to deteriorate. Erwin has them moving forward quickly. Unfortunately, etiquette doesn't typically develop as fast as a winning season does.:eek::D

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:41 AM
I promise this is not a shameless bump of a post I wrote. It is an example of why we need a spell check option. I'm a tad compulsive about my spelling. It does not bother me when others have errors. I'm not a member of the grammar police, by any means. It only applies to myself, this weird obsession. Anyone else have trouble spelling while on a soap box or wrapped in a rant?:D


All the time brother... All the time... And those who know me, know that I dont give a :Censor: what othera think... I'm not in school anymore so I can mispell whatever I want and it has no consequences.:D

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:41 AM
I have to say this about you guys, ya'll were a lot more fun to spar with than the Marcus crowd. The Marcus/Hebron thread got hi-jacked by Junior High football talk.:confused:

Did you see my public admittance of all things Hawk great on the other thread? We jabbed alot last week. Wanted to make sure you knew I came clean and gave your kids their due.:mad::D

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:42 AM
I have to say this about you guys, ya'll were a lot more fun to spar with than the Marcus crowd. The Marcus/Hebron thread got hi-jacked by Junior High football talk.:confused:

Glad we are good sparing partners... And we all love to talk about future players, so dont be bothered by the JH talk..;)

SLC93
11-04-2008, 07:43 AM
All the time brother... All the time... And those who know me, know that I dont give a :Censor: what othera think... I'm not in school anymore so I can mispell whatever I want and it has no consequences.:D

I agree but ,I'm telling you, 93 has a sickness. I get mad at myself. Maybe this is all rooted in childhood.........Did I ever tell you about the times I lost a third grade spelling bee? Man, that thing has really stuck with me!:D;)

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:48 AM
I agree but ,I'm telling you, 93 has a sickness. I get mad at myself. Maybe this is all rooted in childhood.........Did I ever tell you about the times I lost a third grade spelling bee? Man, that thing has really stuck with me!:D;)

LOL... I used to get mad at myself.. But not anymore, I just let my wife and others do it for me..:D

drgnbkr
11-04-2008, 07:49 AM
LOL... I used to get mad at myself.. But not anymore, I just let my wife and others do it for me..:D

Your wife gets mad at you?;)

SLC
11-04-2008, 07:54 AM
Your wife gets mad at you?;)

All the time... After 17 years I'm used to it though... She means well I'm sure... But she sure is firery though...:)

LAHawk
11-04-2008, 07:55 AM
Did you see my public admittance of all things Hawk great on the other thread? We jabbed alot last week. Wanted to make sure you knew I came clean and gave your kids their due.:mad::D

Yes, I did. I just forgot to respond. Very classy on your part.:notworthy
Like you, I realize all of the jawing is in good fun and at the end of the game we should congratulate the victor, shake hands, and get after it again next year.:D

SLC
11-04-2008, 08:03 AM
Yes, I did. I just forgot to respond. Very classy on your part.:notworthy
Like you, I realize all of the jawing is in good fun and at the end of the game we should congratulate the victor, shake hands, and get after it again next year.:D


....... Or maybe this season in the playoffs...;)

SLC93
11-04-2008, 08:11 AM
LOL... I used to get mad at myself.. But not anymore, I just let my wife and others do it for me..:D

I'm only three weeks into my marriage. Wives get mad?:confused:;)

SLC93
11-04-2008, 08:14 AM
Yes, I did. I just forgot to respond. Very classy on your part.:notworthy
Like you, I realize all of the jawing is in good fun and at the end of the game we should congratulate the victor, shake hands, and get after it again next year.:D

No biggie. I'm all about talking hard and playing harder. When the game is over, it's over. I think next season's game could be an all time classic. We'll be looking to give back some of those welps y'all left on our backsides.:D

chhspantherfan
11-04-2008, 08:14 AM
I'm only three weeks into my marriage. Wives get mad?:confused:;)

you got married during football season? And here, all this time, I thought you were a football fan.:cool:

Reminds me of the Allstate tailgating commercial where the guy says, " You're married!?" :D

SLC93
11-04-2008, 08:26 AM
you got married during football season? And here, all this time, I thought you were a football fan.:cool:

Reminds me of the Allstate tailgating commercial where the guy says, " You're married!?" :D

I love that commercial. Small ceremony was held late on a Saturday afternoon. The event was as football friendly as it could possibly be. I give you my word.:D

chhspantherfan
11-04-2008, 09:08 AM
I love that commercial. Small ceremony was held late on a Saturday afternoon. The event was as football friendly as it could possibly be. I give you my word.:D

Word taken. You had me worried there for a minute.

Dragonfan2004
11-04-2008, 09:18 AM
Agreed. Play calling has been questionable the past 2 years. Defensive adjustments left when Mendoza left. Wonder how successful TD would have been with this defensive scheme?????

I recall TD stating he expected at least one stop from his defense. That way he could have a one score advantage. He did not put alot on the defense. But had high expectations from his offense.

green day
11-04-2008, 09:31 AM
We're going to need a number of areas to step up and improve in November. Therefore, as a very novice football expert, here would be my list of drills to include in practice to best prepare for that improvement...

* Assuming you can help a young and talented QB on this phase of the game, run a drill in which the primary receiver is covered. QB must look for at least one additional receiver to throw to, before tucking it in and running.

* Going at 3/4 speed, run a ball carrier at a defensive player and force the tackler to break down and wrap up the runner's legs, versus jumping on his back and riding him to the ground.

* Oklahoma drill, or at least, that's what we called it. Put a blocker on a defensive member with a runner behind him to run thru a 5 foot path. Defensive player must shed his block and fill that path, versus getting locked up.

* Throw a football on the ground and make 2 players fight each other to cover it up. Seen that happen in a Dragon game recently?

* Run a QB option drill that results in a pitch to the trailing back.

* Go under center, take a snap and sneak it behind your best guard for one yard.

I know we do some of these already but we need more work...