View Full Version : **Carroll Dragon Fan Thread**
Plano Wildcat Fan
11-26-2008, 07:25 PM
Agreed that comparing the teams is splitting hair. After seeing all the championship teams, it would be tough to find a better offensive unit than the 02 team, Defensively the 2005 team was very tough. Most fans from SLC seem to agree that the 2002 team was the best, but they were the first so their are some biases there. Hard to argue the strenght of schedule when the 02 team had to go through undefeated Arlington, Lufkin, Abilene Cooper, Irving Mac and Smithson Valley. All teams were great in their own right, personally I feel the 02 Offense and the 05 Defense were the best to ever come through.
The best team was the 05 by far, they went through 4 undefeated teams for 4 consecutive weeks.
Agreed that comparing the teams is splitting hair. After seeing all the championship teams, it would be tough to find a better offensive unit than the 02 team, Defensively the 2005 team was very tough. Most fans from SLC seem to agree that the 2002 team was the best, but they were the first so their are some biases there. Hard to argue the strenght of schedule when the 02 team had to go through undefeated Arlington, Lufkin, Abilene Cooper, Irving Mac and Smithson Valley. All teams were great in their own right, personally I feel the 02 Offense and the 05 Defense were the best to ever come through.
Abilene Cooper was the only undefeated team Carroll faced in the playoffs in 02.
SLCfan2407
11-26-2008, 08:49 PM
First off, yes the '02 team was the best. But we wont get into that.
Second, in TD's first 2 years at SLC he lost............... 10 games! So your statement of him losing less than 10 games is ignorant!
TS did you not read my statement saying that I have forgotten more fball than you will ever know....I must have forgotten the records from TD's first 2 years :D. There is no comparrison between TD and Wasson and their staffs.
I want what is best for these kids, and Wasson is great for them off of the field as are most if not all of his staff members. But on the field, he has been subpar. I know you are friends with Chase and are defending his dad, but son look at the numbers. Just because he's the daddy of a friend, doesn't mean he deserves to be given a grace period. He was given the keys to the ignition of the best HS fball program in the country...We should deserve the best HS coach in the country, and Wasson has not met those standards. Say what you want about talent and all of that. I'll be honest with you, in 02 Lufkin was more talented than us, but we won. I would say in 2004 and 2005 as well, Lufkin was more talented than us, but we won!
Chill was definitely more athletic than us, but talented, I believe not.
And to go back to your first statement, I will give the 02 their credit. They were the guys that started the magical run in 5A. Had they been one of the later teams there is no doubt more division 1 offers would have come their way. But they were not even close to being the best team. I would put 06 and 05 ahead of them because their offense's were just as good (06) if not better (05) and the defense was far better on both squads. The 02 team played a bunch of 4A squads as well along the way. And their road to the state game didn't compare to that of the 04, 05, or 06.
Wasson is a touchy subject for both parties and I respect you sir for sticking up for your coach and your friend. However, these losses are ridiculous and too many times do we hear the excuse of "they were better than us" or "we didnt want it" What kid doesn't want to win? The coach got outcoached in 3 games this year, and that is unacceptable. I seem to recall we had a 10+ advantage in 2 of the 3 games...what happened? Again, they adjusted and we did not and that falls on the coach!
You can say it is a new system, but no it isn't. Wasson learned all of this offensive schemes from Dodge. Signals and play calls are still the same. I think a change of system can be an excuse for Dodge in his first 2 years as well, if you want to play that card.
SLCfan2407
11-26-2008, 08:53 PM
Some might be better than 02, 04, and 05....
But not better than 06...:p
........:D
I might have to agree with you sir because that Defense was sick.
What games in 05 did the D produce 4 shut outs. The only one I can remember is Abilene.
In 06 I remember, Richland, Allen, Lewisville, and like you said. There were several teams that had high flying O's that noly produced 7 points. C'ville twice!:D
Any plans for thanksgiving sir? You going to the Chill game on Saturday?
I might have to agree with you sir because that Defense was sick.
What games in 05 did the D produce 4 shut outs. The only one I can remember is Abilene.
In 06 I remember, Richland, Allen, Lewisville, and like you said. There were several teams that had high flying O's that noly produced 7 points. C'ville twice!:D
Any plans for thanksgiving sir? You going to the Chill game on Saturday?
In 05 they shut out...
Plano East 31-0
Denton Ryan 41-0
North Richland Hills 49-0
Abilene 52-0
I'll be around the house for Thanksgiving with the family watching football of course... You?
And I was thinking about going to some games this weekend.. Maybe Friday to watch Allen/Permian and Denison/Supher Springs.
4rings
11-26-2008, 09:19 PM
It is a shame that we have to rekindle memories of yesteryear. We are used to practicing on Thanksgiving...not sure what I am going to do in the morning. Crap, we have to watch the Lions before the Cowboys come on. At least Texas and A&M are back on Thanksgiving night. We have certainly been blessed with some great games throughout the years.
30 Year Allen Fan
11-26-2008, 09:21 PM
Dragons, you have a class act. You were a pain in our side the last few years. Come back strong next year (as if I had to tell you).
4rings
11-26-2008, 09:28 PM
Dragons, you have a class act. You were a pain in our side the last few years. Come back strong next year (as if I had to tell you).
As does Allen. We have had some great battles over the years. I really felt badly for ya'll when Dick got hurt early in '06. Really felt that was going to be a great game, especially after ya'll beat Westfield. Losing Dick early on put a major hardship that was too much to overcome. Good luck against Permian. Should be a great game. You've got DFW rooting for you.
30 Year Allen Fan
11-26-2008, 09:32 PM
As does Allen. We have had some great battles over the years. I really felt badly for ya'll when Dick got hurt early in '06. Really felt that was going to be a great game, especially after ya'll beat Westfield. Losing Dick early on put a major hardship that was too much to overcome. Good luck against Permian. Should be a great game. You've got DFW rooting for you.
Thanks. However, we have a similar situation this week. Brown our starting QB and leading rusher has a broken collar bone and will be out of the game against Permian. We can't win for losing. But, I know that the Eagles will give it their best shot.
It is a shame that we have to rekindle memories of yesteryear. We are used to practicing on Thanksgiving...not sure what I am going to do in the morning. Crap, we have to watch the Lions before the Cowboys come on. At least Texas and A&M are back on Thanksgiving night. We have certainly been blessed with some great games throughout the years.
It's sad really.. It hasnt set in yet.. I'm sure it will Saturday morning. It sucks to have to watch the damn Lions tomorrow.. Well I guess I dont have to watch them... But I will reluctantly.. Of course I will be watching the Horns.. But Philly play's tomorrow night on the NFL network.
Dragons, you have a class act. You were a pain in our side the last few years. Come back strong next year (as if I had to tell you).
Thank you sir... We all really appreciate the kind words and I feel bad for the Eagles for Matt's situation. Good luck to ya'll sir.
4rings
11-26-2008, 10:23 PM
Thanks. However, we have a similar situation this week. Brown our starting QB and leading rusher has a broken collar bone and will be out of the game against Permian. We can't win for losing. But, I know that the Eagles will give it their best shot.
Sorry to hear about your QB.. We can relate, having lost ours (SLC) after just 21 quarters this year. I know injuries are part of the game, but , damn they can kill a season. Good luck.
CCCSportsFan
11-26-2008, 10:28 PM
Agree. '02 was a special team, but the stats do not bear out that they were the best. Crunk was a member of the team so his opinion is a bit biased. They also played 4A teams in the regular season. Compare their run to the title vs 05 and 06 and you'll discover the difference. Make no mistake, comparing 16-0 teams is splitting hairs. They were all good. However, offensive points and defensive points allowed are just 1 means of comparison. Check out how many undefeated teams that 05 and 06 played in the playoffs. Also look at the measure of dominance, not just the state title game. Ironically, 02 was a 4A team the year before and played another 4A team for the 5A title in 02. One could make an argument that 02 didn't play the tougher opponents in winning their title. Once again, splitting hairs. Ok Crunk, tell me how great your team was. :D
Let me offer this up to the Dragon faithfull.... We can debate, and will debate with passion, which of these teams were the best. But, the '02 team put the wheels in motion for the run we had this decade. They proved to the classes following them that the Dragons are for real in 5A and that we didn't need several years of cutting our teeth in the largest classification to win it all. Regardless of who they beat that year, it was a monumental accomplishment and we're still reaping the fruits of that season :notworthy
I know a lot of the kids now in the freshman and JV ranks went to the games in the '02 season as elementary schoolers. That team planted the seeds and the '03, '04, '05, '06, '07 and '08 teams then watered these seeds.
My gosh guys, look at the names we've come up with today to highlight our belief on which team was the best. Southlake is very blessed to have had so many outstanding players AND kids come through its doors...
Ya, we don't have a game this Friday and that stinks. But the kids following in these great teams foot steps will give it their all to make sure we do next year, and the year after and so on!
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone :)
SLCbacker
11-26-2008, 11:54 PM
So you would go with an unproven coach over one who went to Middle Tennesee State with coach Dodge in the summer of 2001 to learn the new offense and helped implement it as an assistant and then moved on and proved himself elsewhere as an HC. Interesting..... Hindsight is 20/20 but not many people would agree with you 2 years ago when the interview process was being done.
The decision seemed to be reasonable 2 years ago, but it didn't take long to have doubts. I can remember in his first game thinking how painfully slow the play calling was.
Oh well....only one more year....let's hope.
SLCbacker
11-27-2008, 12:08 AM
Do you follow Southlake football?? The QBs take the snap from the spread. They don't go under center. Did you see 1 play under center this year? The point I made was KP grew up in a system (elementary on up) that never used their QBs under center. Then we get to the 3rd round of the playoffs and the coaches are calling for him to kill the ball by going under center. Imagine the thoughts that KP and the center had when he put his hands under the butt of the center. Neither were comfortable nor ready. Wasson screwed this up. Why would any coach risk a fumble just to move the ball to the left. Foster would have nailed the kick from the 15. Think back to 2004, Ortega has to kick a 41 yard FG to win with 6 seconds left. What's the difference between TD and HW? TD knew the player's capabilities, and HW did not. Really disappointing when the HC hasn't a clue. Don't get me started again on how chicken ***** he was in not taking the responsibility. He choked.
Couldn't agree more... Unforgivable! Weak! Horrible Leadership!.....made me ill then and now!
It even got worse when he told the seniors, they lost to Abilene b/c of their lack of leadership.....granted he was frustrated by them not responding well to him.....but can you blame them?!
Wasson is taking this program nowhere at the speed of light!
green day
11-27-2008, 07:10 AM
Scattershooting while waiting to start preparing the bird and wondering whatever happened to Willie Gault...
*6-5A All District players to be announced shortly, now that the teams are out. No surprise here, but FMM Hopkins will be voted District MVP.
* Rockwall Heath RB Kendial Lawrence is the hottest back in the state, and that's saying alot
* Sign that we are out of the play-offs- I taped an episode on the Food Channel this week:(
* What has Tom Hanks been up to lately? We need a good Tom Hanks flick.
*If there was one major scoring rule you could make to football, what would it be? 4 points for a FG over 50? 3 points for the extra points if you score from the 15?
Lions getting 11 today, call me stupid but...
chhspantherfan
11-27-2008, 07:13 AM
Scattershooting while waiting to start preparing the bird and wondering whatever happened to Willie Gault...
*6-5A All District players to be announced shortly, now that the teams are out. No surprise here, but FMM Hopkins will be voted District MVP.
* Rockwall Heath RB Kendial Lawrence is the hottest back in the state, and that's saying alot
* Sign that we are out of the play-offs- I taped an episode on the Food Channel this week:(
* What has Tom Hanks been up to lately? We need a good Tom Hanks flick.
*If there was one major scoring rule you could make to football, what would it be? 4 points for a FG over 50? 3 points for the extra points if you score from the 15?
Lions getting 11 today, call me stupid but...
:notworthyDamn, I miss Blackie.
Happy Thanksgiving DragonNation.
NSMustangProud
11-27-2008, 07:32 AM
Happy Thanksgiving SLC! Have a great day today with lots of turkey and dressing. We might be out of the playoffs, but we have lots to be thankful for.
Be safe!
CCCSportsFan
11-27-2008, 07:51 AM
Happy Thanksgiving SLC! Have a great day today with lots of turkey and dressing. We might be out of the playoffs, but we have lots to be thankful for.
Be safe!
Same to you NSMustang and the Mustang Nation!
CCCSportsFan
11-27-2008, 07:55 AM
Can some of you vet's or former players fill me in on the "Turkey Bowl" today? It sounds like its a game for the guys who played this year??
My son's will be going to the indoor to play in it and I got the usual "sophomore" amount of details:)
Dragonfan2004
11-27-2008, 08:48 AM
The decision seemed to be reasonable 2 years ago, but it didn't take long to have doubts. I can remember in his first game thinking how painfully slow the play calling was.
Oh well....only one more year....let's hope.
I will agree that he is not agressive enough with the vertical game and needs to push the tempo on offense a little more. Hal does need to open it up more agressive on first downs to keep the defense guessing. We did see glimpses of this in games only to go back conservative.
SLCbacker
11-27-2008, 09:28 AM
From my Den of Dragons to yours....Happy Thanksgiving Dragon faithful!
Pants...Don't burn the Turkey!
SLCfan2407
11-27-2008, 10:56 AM
In 05 they shut out...
Plano East 31-0
Denton Ryan 41-0
North Richland Hills 49-0
Abilene 52-0
I'll be around the house for Thanksgiving with the family watching football of course... You?
And I was thinking about going to some games this weekend.. Maybe Friday to watch Allen/Permian and Denison/Supher Springs.
You are right...boy have I lost my mind!! I could not remember!
Thanksgiving, we are just having some family in town, going to be a lot of people here. I am thinking about going to the CHill game on Saturday. Maybe I can get away tomorrow and join you at the Allen and Permian game!
Grapeguy
11-27-2008, 11:28 AM
Brown, Dawson, Hartley and who?
Great question!!
Matt Stover is the other Lake Highlands alum.
crunked9
11-27-2008, 12:34 PM
TS did you not read my statement saying that I have forgotten more fball than you will ever know....I must have forgotten the records from TD's first 2 years :D. There is no comparrison between TD and Wasson and their staffs.
I want what is best for these kids, and Wasson is great for them off of the field as are most if not all of his staff members. But on the field, he has been subpar. I know you are friends with Chase and are defending his dad, but son look at the numbers. Just because he's the daddy of a friend, doesn't mean he deserves to be given a grace period. He was given the keys to the ignition of the best HS fball program in the country...We should deserve the best HS coach in the country, and Wasson has not met those standards. Say what you want about talent and all of that. I'll be honest with you, in 02 Lufkin was more talented than us, but we won. I would say in 2004 and 2005 as well, Lufkin was more talented than us, but we won!
Chill was definitely more athletic than us, but talented, I believe not.
And to go back to your first statement, I will give the 02 their credit. They were the guys that started the magical run in 5A. Had they been one of the later teams there is no doubt more division 1 offers would have come their way. But they were not even close to being the best team. I would put 06 and 05 ahead of them because their offense's were just as good (06) if not better (05) and the defense was far better on both squads. The 02 team played a bunch of 4A squads as well along the way. And their road to the state game didn't compare to that of the 04, 05, or 06.
Wasson is a touchy subject for both parties and I respect you sir for sticking up for your coach and your friend. However, these losses are ridiculous and too many times do we hear the excuse of "they were better than us" or "we didnt want it" What kid doesn't want to win? The coach got outcoached in 3 games this year, and that is unacceptable. I seem to recall we had a 10+ advantage in 2 of the 3 games...what happened? Again, they adjusted and we did not and that falls on the coach!
You can say it is a new system, but no it isn't. Wasson learned all of this offensive schemes from Dodge. Signals and play calls are still the same. I think a change of system can be an excuse for Dodge in his first 2 years as well, if you want to play that card.
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!
The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
15Adragon
11-27-2008, 01:25 PM
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!
The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
Last year was on a key injury and player mistakes. :rolleyes:
This year the talent just wasn't there. :rolleyes:
Next year? :eek:
How about we just move to next year. We can keep going and folks will not agree. Let's just agree about:
- If you were an xx Dragon you were the best. You can fill in the year you want.
- We love the Dragons past and present
- We can't wait until next year :)
dragons08
11-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!
The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
Hm, I wonder what year you played...
crunked9
11-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Hm, I wonder what year you played...
2002, which is why my opinion really cant be considered! :D
dragons08
11-27-2008, 02:03 PM
2002, which is why my opinion really cant be considered! :D
I know, hence the sarcastic tone.
That's cool man, aren't you the one that had that "fluke" catch, against Lufkin?
You are right...boy have I lost my mind!! I could not remember!
Thanksgiving, we are just having some family in town, going to be a lot of people here. I am thinking about going to the CHill game on Saturday. Maybe I can get away tomorrow and join you at the Allen and Permian game!
Let me know.. We will arrainge to meet.
Enjoy the family today my friend. Send them all well wishes from me.:)
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
Of course you mean the QB we ended the season with. Cause I believe the one we started with could have.
And I do think if a player has never attempted a snap under center, that it would make a difference.... You see all the time in the NFL that if the starting center gets hurt and the replacement comes in, there is exchange issues... And those guys are professionals!!.. Not impossible to think that a high school teenager would struggle with it.. especially if the coach doesnt have them practice it.
Hm, I wonder what year you played...
D08 you changed the avatar.. What gives?
crunked9
11-27-2008, 06:21 PM
Of course you mean the QB we ended the season with. Cause I believe the one we started with could have.
And I do think if a player has never attempted a snap under center, that it would make a difference.... You see all the time in the NFL that if the starting center gets hurt and the replacement comes in, there is exchange issues... And those guys are professionals!!.. Not impossible to think that a high school teenager would struggle with it.. especially if the coach doesnt have them practice it.
Over who??
Over who??
Based on the numbers he was on pace to get... Any of them.. With out an injury and with great coaching he could have been as good as weve had.
crunked9
11-27-2008, 10:59 PM
Based on the numbers he was on pace to get... Any of them.. With out an injury and with great coaching he could have been as good as weve had.
Still does not mean he would of started over any of them
crunked9
11-27-2008, 11:00 PM
But that boy does have an arm!! and has a good chance to do good things at SMU!
I just think for the type of system SLC has the others were a better fit.
crunked9
11-28-2008, 04:33 PM
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
Pinion
11-28-2008, 05:27 PM
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
Wouldnt have went down the way it has with TD at the helm.
DrEdward
11-28-2008, 05:43 PM
Like any Dragon fan, I want the team to succeed and not just in football. But I’ll restrict myself to football here. By any measure, save with a comparison to our own rather illustrious past, the Dragons had a successful year in each of the last two seasons. Carroll was able to play a maximum of 31 games over the past two years and actually played in 24 such games, or 77% of those in which it could appear under UIL rules. In 2007, Carroll won 79% of the games in which it played. In 2008, Carroll won 73% of the games in which it played against one of the more difficult schedules in the state. Of course, these are low in comparison to the balance of the previous 5A years in which the Dragons played in 100% of the 16 possible games each season. Save for 2003, the corresponding winning percentages would also be 100% each season; 94% in 2003. While a lofty objective, to gauge every season by such a standard is flat out unrealistic. As the stats make clear, the 2008 Dragons were an above average high school football team, but not as good as Carroll has managed to put on the field in the past. Nothing to be ashamed about there; one can and should expect variations from year to year. The debate on here seems to be about who is to "blame" for this failure to achieve perfection.
To begin with, Todd Dodge did Carroll no favors when he left for UNT. I am not talking about his leaving personally, but rather in the number of coaches he took with him from Carroll, including the defensive coordinator plus Carroll’s longest serving coach at that time. But he also took the two most likely heirs for the Carroll head coaching position to UNT with him in the forms of Coach Ford and Coach George. This is not intended to be a shot at Dodge, but only to point out that the Carroll staff was taken apart beyond the head coaching level and that Wasson was not necessarily a shoe-in for the job.
Certainly Wasson is a more conservative coach than was Todd Dodge, but so was Bob Ledbetter. Yet it would seem that the latter managed to do okay in coaching at Carroll. However, that success did not come immediately to Ledbetter in terms of championships at Carroll. Nor did it for Dodge. Why should we expect it to for Wasson? A great hope perhaps, but not necessarily a reasonable expectation. Couple that with a substantial changeover in the coaching staff and there will certainly be some bumps to be worked out.
I think and hope that the Carroll coaching staff will work in the off-season (which came all too quickly) to examine what actually happened. That will hopefully include a self-examination. However, I am not convinced that the coaching staff deserves some of the comments directed at it. As I tried to argue in the aftermath of the Carroll-Coppell game, the Dragon offense was quite inconsistent this season, looking quite good at some points and less than effective at others. This inconsistency may be a good reason underlying the more conservative play calling by the staff. As has been pointed out by others, the passing game was not what it has been, even though it was not bad by any standard. Too many balls on the ground too often. By the way, the same pattern was noticed in 7 on 7 over the summer where the coaches are not directly involved.
One thing that seemed to be missing this season was on-field leaders who could take charge on the field during the game. That role typically lands with a senior on each side of the ball. Yet the obvious candidate on offense was gone. None that I saw ever really emerged on defense, but there were few seniors on that side in position to assume such a role. Need to look for that to change. Closely related was the tendency for the team to get their heads down after things didn’t go their way. Whether that is simply a reflection of the players’ personalities or more effort is required by the coaching staff, I don’t know. I suspect both. But if it is the former, then the coaches must step up their efforts, but it will be difficult. The psych types should step in here.
It has also been noted relative to team speed that Carroll was not as fast as they have been in the past. Well, given that we have had state-ranked and winning sprinters on the team previously, no kidding. That is not to say that the receivers or backs were slow; they were not. But what was missing was simply the acceleration ability during a route to get separation from defenders. Still, they managed to get open, yet Carroll did not always manage to get the ball to them or if the ball was there, no completion. More practice with each other playing pitch and catch. But again, perhaps a likely reason underlying the more cautious play calling.
Along the same lines, tackling seemed to be a problem on occasion. Yet, these young men have been playing football together for quite some time now. I have to believe that they do know how to tackle, but just in case, some back to basics might be called for. Still, perhaps the issue was quickness and positioning. Too often it seemed that the tacklers were simply not in position to make a stop. Incorrect defensive alignment? Maybe and if so, the coaching needs to adjust. Or were there simply some pretty quick backs on other teams relative to our defense? I suspect there was some of that; actually a good bit of that. If so, track and field has a lot to recommend it in the spring for all football players, including linemen. In addition, we can always use more shot putters and throwers. Too few realize that the weights are also acceleration events as well as strength events. So if you’re not playing baseball in the spring, work on quickness in track.
One final thought - fans. We don’t get off the hook either. I realize that I am preaching to the choir on here, but the number of empty seats, especially in the reserved sections is extraordinarily disappointing and has gotten worse in recent years. Where are these people? I know previous school boards made life miserable for dedicated football types around Carroll and caused many to get rid of their season tickets. But those are no longer on the school board. So where is everyone? Way too many empty seats at the start of the home games. Is this entire tailgating thing so out of hand that people are simply staying in the parking lots too damn long? If so, shut the things down early and get to your seats prior to the introductions, etc. If you know someone who has season tickets, but not using them, find out why not and let’s fix this nonsense. Away games have become even worse. It seemed to get bad in the trip to SFA against Lufkin a couple of years back. A game of that importance and we can’t find the time to go? But now, it would seem like Hebron has become too far to go for too many. Ugh. Yes, the traffic sucks, so get there a bit early. But get out and support the kids on Friday evenings. No, it’s not you, but feel free to rag on those "fans" whom you know thinking it is just too much hassle to go to the game. An ‘05 Carroll team doesn’t need our sorry butts in the stand, for they were that good; other teams do.
So, I will now shut up for a while. There is always room for improvements in any program. But, in my opinion, the criticisms being leveled at the coaches and, to a lesser degree the players, is not completely warranted. Carroll will be back to form.
ScopeUp
11-28-2008, 05:46 PM
You can't control injuries, Dodge never had to deal with losing the main cogs on the team. To say that it wouldn't end the same way given the same cards that Wasson has been dealt under Dodge, you would have to be out of your mind. Just look at LSU as a prime example, no QB=hard times. Carroll still won 8 games and went 2 rounds, wake up to reality and realize that it was just circumstances that lead to the loss, CHill was the better team on that day no matter how you try to spin it
crunked9
11-28-2008, 05:48 PM
Wouldnt have went down the way it has with TD at the helm.
Thats not the point. The point is if it had gone the exact same way, would you wnat him fired
SLCfan2407
11-29-2008, 04:26 AM
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!
The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
The coach not having a good enough talent pool. The talent level dropped, is also a lame excuse. Do you not think from 05 to 06 that the "talent level" of players dropped off?? An outside backer for an SEC club (05) or an OLB that never played in college (06) Safety at Rice (05) or safety who never played in college (06)...4 WR's go DI (05) or 1 go D1 and one go D2 or 3(06). the talent lever dropped significantly there too. Dodge was able to put something together better than anyone imagined. The 06 team is the only team in the 5A era that could play with 05. 02 had a tremendous offense but their Defense was suspect at times.
No other team had 3 recievers with over 15 TD's and 1000 yards, but another team had 4 receivers go DI with comprable stats. But the ball was distributed more among the receiving core.
TS my reference too having forgotten more football than you will ever know had nothing to do with me watching more games than you. I am talking schemes, play calls etc... You never know who is on the other side of the monitor. :D
SLCisbetterthanyou, thanks for the updates today!
texas_smoke69
11-29-2008, 08:05 AM
Two reasons for the Dragons' demise over the past two years:
1. Wasson
2. Can't stop the run
Sakatha
11-29-2008, 08:23 AM
Two reasons for the Dragons' demise over the past two years:
1. Wasson
2. Can't stop the run
Possibly the silliest post I've read in a long while...
~DnM
OakTreeUp-n-Out
11-29-2008, 09:05 AM
Dr. Ed... again providing a voice of reason. Thanks for that post. Everyone needs to read it slowly and let it sink in. Lot of truth in there.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:17 AM
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
Anybody want to answer????
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:18 AM
The coach not having a good enough talent pool. The talent level dropped, is also a lame excuse. Do you not think from 05 to 06 that the "talent level" of players dropped off?? An outside backer for an SEC club (05) or an OLB that never played in college (06) Safety at Rice (05) or safety who never played in college (06)...4 WR's go DI (05) or 1 go D1 and one go D2 or 3(06). the talent lever dropped significantly there too. Dodge was able to put something together better than anyone imagined. The 06 team is the only team in the 5A era that could play with 05. 02 had a tremendous offense but their Defense was suspect at times.
No other team had 3 recievers with over 15 TD's and 1000 yards, but another team had 4 receivers go DI with comprable stats. But the ball was distributed more among the receiving core.
TS my reference too having forgotten more football than you will ever know had nothing to do with me watching more games than you. I am talking schemes, play calls etc... You never know who is on the other side of the monitor. :D
SLCisbetterthanyou, thanks for the updates today!
Now you are just crazy!
green day
11-29-2008, 09:42 AM
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
Anybody want to answer????
Answer: No
Truth: Only a small handful are screaming that anyway.
How about this one? If Wasson were the coach of UNT and everything was the same there, would you still go to their game today against Ark St?:)
CCCSportsFan
11-29-2008, 09:45 AM
To begin with, Todd Dodge did Carroll no favors when he left for UNT. I am not talking about his leaving personally, but rather in the number of coaches he took with him from Carroll, including the defensive coordinator plus Carroll’s longest serving coach at that time. But he also took the two most likely heirs for the Carroll head coaching position to UNT with him in the forms of Coach Ford and Coach George. This is not intended to be a shot at Dodge, but only to point out that the Carroll staff was taken apart beyond the head coaching level and that Wasson was not necessarily a shoe-in for the job.
DrEdward, great post as always!
You're really on to something in the point above. It's often forgotten or in some cases the casual observer just isn't knowledgeable of how badly the staff was depleted... This did put HW behind the curve in the beginning. I remember he had a false start with his first hire at DC. I believe the gentleman was from Highland Park, he took the job, was here 30 days and then left not long before spring ball in 2007. HW obviously had to scramble to find a DC and eventually hired Wilson.
Does anyone know if these are the first coordinator positions for our O/C and D/C??
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:50 AM
Answer: No Smart
Truth: Only a small handful are screaming that anyway. true
How about this one? If Wasson were the coach of UNT and everything was the same there, would you still go to their game today against Ark St?:) no and not going anyway. staying home to watch the big boys.
Bold
OakTreeUp-n-Out
11-29-2008, 10:01 AM
I remember he had a false start with his first hire at DC. I believe the gentleman was from Highland Park, he took the job, was here 30 days and then left not long before spring ball in 2007. HW obviously had to scramble to find a DC and eventually hired Wilson.
I forgot about that. Anybody know the story behind that (if it's not private type info)?
Oh, and to answer your question:
*I think*
Bill Poe was OC @ McKinney North
Shannon Wilson was DC @ Duncanville
CCCSportsFan
11-29-2008, 12:08 PM
I forgot about that. Anybody know the story behind that (if it's not private type info)?Oh, and to answer your question:
*I think*
Bill Poe was OC @ McKinney North
Shannon Wilson was DC @ Duncanville
If memory serves me correct it boiled down to he was a 3-4 expert and wanted to implement that defense here. HW was against making the change and they parted ways. At least that was what the media reported.
You'd have thought either of them would have had a lengthy discussion about formations and plans before an offer was extended :confused: :eek:
Oak, thanks for the info on Poe and Wilson. Were they highly thought of at these past stops??
toonman
11-29-2008, 12:52 PM
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
Anybody want to answer????
No we would not because TD has skins on the wall - show me Wasson's skins.
As I have said before. Over 20 years coaching at some 7 or so schools and nothing to show for his tenures, neither a state championships nor a legacy program.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 02:22 PM
No we would not because TD has skins on the wall - show me Wasson's skins.
As I have said before. Over 20 years coaching at some 7 or so schools and nothing to show for his tenures, neither a state championships nor a legacy program.
Put as someone else said, "Wasson was handed the keys to the best program in the country." Which means he should win no matter what. So why would you not get rid of Dodge if the same thing had happened.
I will now quote TD, "What have you done for me lately."
toonman
11-29-2008, 03:01 PM
................"Wasson was handed the keys to the best program in the country." Which means he should win no matter what. .....
Wasson was indeed handed the keys to the best program in the country and did not win no matter what - so the what changed? Answer : Coaching.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 03:37 PM
Wasson was indeed handed the keys to the best program in the country and did not win no matter what - so the what changed? Answer : Coaching.
So you agree, if Dodge had the same results in the past 2 years, then the reason would of been coaching.
Ok, here is a quick thought.
What IF TD was still the SLC coach, and the last 2 years things happend just like they did with Wasson. Scores, wins, losses, injuries, everything.
WOULD YOU BE SCREAMING TO FIRE TD???
Seriously think about it
NO. He would have 4 titles and would be given the benifit of the doubt.
Answer: No
Truth: Only a small handful are screaming that anyway.
How about this one? If Wasson were the coach of UNT and everything was the same there, would you still go to their game today against Ark St?:)
Only a handfull of posters.. and all are not saying on here how they really feel.. And more around the city and district feel the same.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 04:19 PM
NO. He would have 4 titles and would be given the benifit of the doubt.
But it can't be anyone but the coaches fault. So we should get rid of him, so TD would have to go!
dragonpants
11-29-2008, 06:26 PM
Just because you have seen and forgotten more football than I, does not mean you understand football better.
And yes the talent was down this year! The QB, RB, and WR's from this year would not have started on any of the championship teams. Which pretty much means the talent was down.
In '07 SLC lost b/c Riley got hurt and SLC fumbled in the 4th qtr to give Abilene the ball for the go ahead TD. Also, a QB that does not know how to take a snap under center is the lamest thing I have ever heard!
The '02 team had the best numbers amoung the WR's. Did any other team have 3 WR's with more than 15 TD's and 1000 yards??? NO!
Ok guys we can talk about talent in general but to call out specific players or positions I think is better left to PM. The kids read this board as well as their parents and I think it is in bad taste to single them out. Just my opinion and I know I get carried away also but we really need to watch what we are posting. It is one thing to question coaches and adults but these are kids and they our support.
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and no backer I did not burn the turkey.
drgnbkr
11-29-2008, 08:32 PM
Only a handfull of posters.. and all are not saying on here how they really feel.. And more around the city and district feel the same.
With all due respect..I don't hear it at all, except from the few of you on here...but it's fine with me. That's what these boards are for...opinionating...
crunked9
11-29-2008, 08:49 PM
With all due respect..I don't hear it at all, except from the few of you on here...but it's fine with me. That's what these boards are for...opinionating...
Well if it is only a few people on here, that is good.
Does anyone know how the baseball team should look this coming spring?
green day
11-29-2008, 08:59 PM
Well if it is only a few people on here, that is good.
Does anyone know how the baseball team should look this coming spring?
Hughes will have a talented team, they'll compete well, and the seniors will never go back to see their coach. .. Same as usual
green day
11-29-2008, 09:00 PM
Only a handfull of posters.. and all are not saying on here how they really feel.. And more around the city and district feel the same.
Negatory, no one is as passionate as 5A members...
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:03 PM
Hughes will have a talented team, they'll compete well, and the seniors will never go back to see their coach. .. Same as usual
:ninja: :D :ninja:
With all due respect..I don't hear it at all, except from the few of you on here...but it's fine with me. That's what these boards are for...opinionating...
With all due respect back to ya... I do.. I'm hearing more and more feel this way after having some time to reflect.
dragonsdaddy
11-29-2008, 09:05 PM
Of course you mean the QB we ended the season with. Cause I believe the one we started with could have.
And I do think if a player has never attempted a snap under center, that it would make a difference.... You see all the time in the NFL that if the starting center gets hurt and the replacement comes in, there is exchange issues... And those guys are professionals!!.. Not impossible to think that a high school teenager would struggle with it.. especially if the coach doesnt have them practice it.
i give up. please tell me which poy kyle p, who performed admireably, would have beaten out. either chase, mcelroy, or rd, or all of them. this year was tough on the locals but it wasn't anything that a single change would have solved, methinks.
Negatory, no one is as passionate as 5A members...
I'm sure were passionate.. Not so much different than the rest of the community... that doesnt post.
i give up. please tell me which poy kyle p, who performed admireably, would have beaten out. either chase, mcelroy, or rd, or all of them. this year was tough on the locals but it wasn't anything that a single change would have solved, methinks.
As I said earlier.. Based on the numbers he was projected to get.. Any of them.. He was on pace to be as good as any Dragon QB weve ever had.
toonman
11-29-2008, 09:09 PM
So you agree, if Dodge had the same results in the past 2 years, then the reason would of been coaching.
Yes I agree. But as I said I would give TD the benefit because he has been there/done that - has the skins on the wall. Wasson has never been there/has never done that, so does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Wasson will be there next season no doubt, but if we do not see the program move forward from the past two seasons of mediocrity - then we need a change. I think 3 strikes and out applies.
dragonsdaddy
11-29-2008, 09:16 PM
Hughes will have a talented team, they'll compete well, and the seniors will never go back to see their coach. .. Same as usual
dead solid perfect, right there.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:28 PM
As I said earlier.. Based on the numbers he was projected to get.. Any of them.. He was on pace to be as good as any Dragon QB weve ever had.
You have still not answered the question.
But I will agree that he was on pace for great numbers! So, I will say he could have also been a poy.
You have still not answered the question.But I will agree that he was on pace for great numbers! So, I will say he could have also been a poy.
Indeed I have answered the question....
Based on the numbers he was on pace to get... Any of them.. With out an injury and with great coaching he could have been as good as weve had.
And....
As I said earlier.. Based on the numbers he was projected to get.. Any of them.. He was on pace to be as good as any Dragon QB weve ever had.
I said it twice^^^^ right up there^^^^in bold..ANY OF THEM
crunked9
11-29-2008, 09:52 PM
Indeed I have answered the question....
And....
I said it twice^^^^ right up there^^^^in bold..ANY OF THEM
I see that now. So you are saying he could have started over any of them?
hmm.........
drgnbkr
11-29-2008, 09:55 PM
I see that now. So you are saying he could have started over any of them?
hmm.........
Kyle's a hell of a kid, but...:eek: Do wish we'd had him all year..we'd still be playing.
I see that now. So you are saying he could have started over any of them?
hmm.........
I mean hindsight tells us the answer is no.... But if you went off what Kyle was likely to end up with and the lack of weapons he was playing with.. Then yes.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 10:14 PM
I mean hindsight tells us the answer is no.... But if you went off what Kyle was likely to end up with and the lack of weapons he was playing with.. Then yes.
Wow, so he is better than a heismam finalist, a SEC future starting QB, RD, and the poster boy record holder CW?
I don't think so!
crunked9
11-29-2008, 10:15 PM
Kyle's a hell of a kid, but...:eek: Do wish we'd had him all year..we'd still be playing.
Maybe, but could he tackle???
crunked9
11-29-2008, 10:22 PM
About KP and the fumble from '07. I was never trying to say it was his fault about the snap.
I was just trying to say he most likely knows how to take a snap, just that it was mess up and players make physical mistakes, physical mistakes are part of the game.
Hell, I made one that I still think about all the time....Ennis.
I hope what I am trying to say is sounding right.
crunked9
11-29-2008, 10:23 PM
I mean hindsight tells us the answer is no.... But if you went off what Kyle was likely to end up with and the lack of weapons he was playing with.. Then yes.
Yes, statistcally he had a chance to be up there. But I would still take the others over him.
And yes, he has a good chance to be a good college QB
crunked9
11-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Ok, I am done. Only support from now on.
drgnbkr
11-29-2008, 11:01 PM
Ok, I am done. Only support from now on.
You're a hell of an athletic supporter! And a heck of a receiver in your day...makes you sound old huh?:D
Wow, so he is better than a heismam finalist, a SEC future starting QB, RD, and the poster boy record holder CW?
I don't think so!
Again.. Thats ALL HINDSIGHT.... And thats..... well... You know the rest.
Maybe, but could he tackle???
No. He could score and probably overcome bad coaching... so yes we would still be playing.
SLCbacker
11-30-2008, 01:18 AM
So you agree, if Dodge had the same results in the past 2 years, then the reason would of been coaching.
Crunked....You make no sense at all! TD's record, leadership, and coaching speak for itself. The last 5 years at Carroll, TD was never outcoached. I doubt that he would have been in the last 2 years.
Hal was outcoached in the Coppell, Hebron, and Chill games this year. I have heard from both Hebron and CHill coaches that this Carroll team was predictable, and would not make adjustments......that my friend is coaching!
SLCbacker
11-30-2008, 01:31 AM
With all due respect..I don't hear it at all, except from the few of you on here...but it's fine with me. That's what these boards are for...opinionating...
Rarely a day goes by that I do not hear from someone that there is a problem with the coaching. I wouldn't say it is limited to the posters on this site.
Rarely a day goes by that I do not hear from someone that there is a problem with the coaching. I wouldn't say it is limited to the posters on this site.
It's not... Foolish to say otherwise.
15Adragon
11-30-2008, 08:04 AM
It is nice to see Chill and Wylie advance. I think the winner has a real good chance of winning it all. I haven't seen Wylie play but I am impressed with how they are beating teams. Chill has won every game since their first loss. Should be a good contest. From a 6-5A perspective, I am glad these 2 are advancing.
crunked9
11-30-2008, 09:11 AM
Crunked....You make no sense at all! TD's record, leadership, and coaching speak for itself. The last 5 years at Carroll, TD was never outcoached. I doubt that he would have been in the last 2 years.
Hal was outcoached in the Coppell, Hebron, and Chill games this year. I have heard from both Hebron and CHill coaches that this Carroll team was predictable, and would not make adjustments......that my friend is coaching!
But, still, if the records had been the same over the last two years, what would everyone be saying the reasons were?
crunked9
11-30-2008, 09:12 AM
No. He could score and probably overcome bad coaching... so yes we would still be playing.
We still couldn't stop the run
E-Vol-ution
11-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Dodge could not turn a decent RB into an Aaron Luna or Tre Newton, nor could he make a Cantu, Renfro or any of the other studs SLC has had. If Wasson had those guys, you'd still be playing. If Dodge had this past year's team, you'd be where you are. If he had last year's team...you'd most likely have gone a little further.
Of course...if he was still there, your other coaches would have been too.
No. He could score and probably overcome bad coaching... so yes we would still be playing.
CCCSportsFan
11-30-2008, 10:20 AM
You're a hell of an athletic supporter! And a heck of a receiver in your day...makes you sound old huh?:D
Congrats Crunk, you are not part of the illustrious group of former star athletes. Your 40 time is now officially .2 of a second faster than the best you ever posted so probably a 4.25, you've immediately caught 25% more passes than the records show and you also had serious tryouts with the NY Yankee's, LA Dodgers and Texas Rangers but decided you didn't want that lifestyle so passed up on the offers :D
And your stats will now officially continue to improve every year going forward ;)
toonman
11-30-2008, 10:23 AM
Dodge could not turn a decent RB into an Aaron Luna or Tre Newton, nor could he make a Cantu, Renfro or any of the other studs SLC has had. If Wasson had those guys, you'd still be playing. If Dodge had this past year's team, you'd be where you are. If he had last year's team...you'd most likely have gone a little further.
Of course...if he was still there, your other coaches would have been too.
TD would not have made the coaching gaffes made by Wasson.
Brooks Downing
11-30-2008, 10:27 AM
TD would not have made the coaching gaffes made by Wasson.
SLC will be back, from that I am sure.
SLCbacker
11-30-2008, 10:48 AM
But, still, if the records had been the same over the last two years, what would everyone be saying the reasons were?
Yes there were injuries and less talent, and those are good excuses for not going deep into the playoffs.
But being out coached often, being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays, and not connecting with your players....has nothing to do with injuries and talent.
We could do a helluva lot better!
CCHS77
11-30-2008, 10:58 AM
Yes there were injuries and less talent, and those are good excuses for not going deep into the playoffs.
But being out coached often, being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays, and not connecting with your players....has nothing to do with injuries and talent.
We could do a helluva lot better!
Some would say that "injuries and talent" has everything to do with "being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays". But that doesn't make the "case" for a coaching change, so it's not popular opinion with some posters.
We still couldn't stop the run
We could have scored more to give relief to a defense that fought its a$$ off and deserved to be rewarded... Wouldnt have been alot of 3 and outs with Kyle and our punter could have watched the games instead of participating in them.
Dodge could not turn a decent RB into an Aaron Luna or Tre Newton, nor could he make a Cantu, Renfro or any of the other studs SLC has had. If Wasson had those guys, you'd still be playing. If Dodge had this past year's team, you'd be where you are. If he had last year's team...you'd most likely have gone a little further.
Of course...if he was still there, your other coaches would have been too.
Dodge would have gotten more out of Avers, Padron, our recievers, our O line, and all other areas of the team.. And if we would have had the injuries exactly the same as this season, he would have gotten more out of Piland and John John and he would have gone to KW if he thought he needed to.
Yes there were injuries and less talent, and those are good excuses for not going deep into the playoffs.
But being out coached often, being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays, and not connecting with your players....has nothing to do with injuries and talent.
We could do a helluva lot better!
This.
Some would say that "injuries and talent" has everything to do with "being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays". But that doesn't make the "case" for a coaching change, so it's not popular opinion with some posters.
I dont buy it, but lets just say thats true... Whats the excuse for last season?... Where Riley, Newton and several other seniors made it plainly known that they disagreed with the staff over the lack of a real offensive game plan.
crunked9
11-30-2008, 01:45 PM
Congrats Crunk, you are not part of the illustrious group of former star athletes. Your 40 time is now officially .2 of a second faster than the best you ever posted so probably a 4.25, you've immediately caught 25% more passes than the records show and you also had serious tryouts with the NY Yankee's, LA Dodgers and Texas Rangers but decided you didn't want that lifestyle so passed up on the offers :D
And your stats will now officially continue to improve every year going forward ;)
I turned down the yankees, I told them I wanted to be on a winning team!
SLCbacker
11-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Dodge would have gotten more out of Avers, Padron, our recievers, our O line, and all other areas of the team.. And if we would have had the injuries exactly the same as this season, he would have gotten more out of Piland and John John and he would have gone to KW if he thought he needed to.
I do not disagree with you at all, but this should not be about Todd. He is gone, and despite the rumors, not coming back.
Comparisons to a HS coaching legend, and a self proclaimed "old ball coach" is a waste of time, and not fair.
My point is the style, direction, leadership, etc. does not appear to be a good fit for this program. There are others that should be strongly considered....Joey F, Joey M....to name a few.
I do not disagree with you at all, but this should not be about Todd. He is gone, and despite the rumors, not coming back.
Comparisons to a HS coaching legend, and a self proclaimed "old ball coach" is a waste of time, and not fair.
My point is the style, direction, leadership, etc. does not appear to be a good fit for this program. There are others that should be strongly considered....Joey F, Joey M....to name a few.
I know and I agree completely.. I'm just answering the "what if Todd had been here instead of Hal" scenario's... He isnt coming back and we have to deal with who replaced him.
And there are many many qualified candidates.
dragons08
11-30-2008, 03:48 PM
We still couldn't stop the run
Against Chill we were doing a decent job in the 1st half, then all hell broke loose in the second half. Yes, there was an injury, but we didn't make the adjustments, and chill did and burned us.
green day
11-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Adjustments- can someone help me understand what adjustments good coaches generally make at halftime, or during the game for that matter?
We lost the game, so generally, it was due to a lack of adjustments.
For instance, we had CH down 7-0. What adjustments should we have made defensively, to insure our chances to win?
When CH started their first 2 second half drives inside the Dragon 30, what adjustments should the coaches have made to their initial halftime adjustments, so that the Longhorns would not score twice and go up 14-10?
Offensively, we didn't make the right adjustments at half, yet took the second half kick and drove it to the 4 yard line? What adjustments should we have made?
For that matter, offensively, I recall initial second half drives against Coppel and Hebron resulting in long drive scores. What adjustments should the coaches have made, to insure that we score more points in the second half?
During our 8 wins this year, why didn't the coaches make better adjustments?
Maybe the ANSWER is: Our coaches did make the right halftime adjustments.
ScopeUp
11-30-2008, 05:22 PM
FYI when comparing other coaches. Wasson beat Florence like a red headed step child year in and year out while at Fossill Ridge, record is 1-1 vs. Joey M. The easy target is the coaches when we are not winning, let's be positive for next season. We still need playmakers
texas-buckeye
11-30-2008, 05:40 PM
Adjustments- can someone help me understand what adjustments good coaches generally make at halftime, or during the game for that matter?
We lost the game, so generally, it was due to a lack of adjustments.
For instance, we had CH down 7-0. What adjustments should we have made defensively, to insure our chances to win?
When CH started their first 2 second half drives inside the Dragon 30, what adjustments should the coaches have made to their initial halftime adjustments, so that the Longhorns would not score twice and go up 14-10?
Offensively, we didn't make the right adjustments at half, yet took the second half kick and drove it to the 4 yard line? What adjustments should we have made?
For that matter, offensively, I recall initial second half drives against Coppel and Hebron resulting in long drive scores. What adjustments should the coaches have made, to insure that we score more points in the second half?
During our 8 wins this year, why didn't the coaches make better adjustments?
Maybe the ANSWER is: Our coaches did make the right halftime adjustments.
Have you been drinking today? :)
CoppelCGeo
11-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Wasson was indeed handed the keys to the best program in the country and did not win no matter what - so the what changed? Answer : Coaching.
Any truth to the story that Wasson was hand picked by TD to be his replacement for the primary reason that Wasson wouldn't change anything up during RD's Sr. year? I've heard that from some people pretty close to the inside. :confused:
dragons08
11-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Any truth to the story that Wasson was hand picked by TD to be his replacement for the primary reason that Wasson wouldn't change anything up during RD's Sr. year? I've heard that from some people pretty close to the inside. :confused:
It's true.
Wasson had the job before the search even started.
green day
11-30-2008, 06:51 PM
Have you been drinking today? :)
No, and honestly, I really want to know what everyone thinks should have been done by our coaches, when given the chance to change.
As I look back at most initial drives of 3Q, we generally got things done.
Vs. CH, we have a shutout thru 2Q's and lose our safety. What adjustments do you make?
15Adragon
11-30-2008, 06:56 PM
Adjustments- can someone help me understand what adjustments good coaches generally make at halftime, or during the game for that matter?
We lost the game, so generally, it was due to a lack of adjustments.
For instance, we had CH down 7-0. What adjustments should we have made defensively, to insure our chances to win?
When CH started their first 2 second half drives inside the Dragon 30, what adjustments should the coaches have made to their initial halftime adjustments, so that the Longhorns would not score twice and go up 14-10?
Offensively, we didn't make the right adjustments at half, yet took the second half kick and drove it to the 4 yard line? What adjustments should we have made?
For that matter, offensively, I recall initial second half drives against Coppel and Hebron resulting in long drive scores. What adjustments should the coaches have made, to insure that we score more points in the second half?
During our 8 wins this year, why didn't the coaches make better adjustments?
Maybe the ANSWER is: Our coaches did make the right halftime adjustments.
Green,
Here are a few examples that I noticed where an adjustment needed to be made. I recognize that we could do the same for any team including some of the top Dragon teams. This is why we talk sports. "I was hitting the ball close to the pin all day and I just couldn't sink a put!" , etc, etc,,,,
- Copppell game - how many of those KO and punt return reverses did they run. At least 10 and we still couldn't stop them. Try something else, anything... They killed us with those returns and it sucked the life out of us in the process.
- FMM - RB has broken 2 long runs so why not drop a safety back to play center field so we can hold him to 10 or 15 yards instead of 50+ when he gets through the LOS.
- Hebron - we had a RB with over 200 yards rushing on like 10 carries and he touched the ball only once or twice in a close 4th qtr. How many options were called where the QB never pitched especially near the goal line. When you have a RB who averages 7 or 8 yards a carry or 20 in this game I would run him until the D could stop him and then I would run him a few more times. The QB had 20 carries in that game.
That was painful to watch. PLease, give me pants headset the armchair is not sufficient. ;)
DrEdward
11-30-2008, 07:49 PM
Any truth to the story that Wasson was hand picked by TD to be his replacement for the primary reason that Wasson wouldn't change anything up during RD's Sr. year? I've heard that from some people pretty close to the inside. :confused:
It is valid to state the principal caveats to be followed in finding a successor coach to Dodge were:
1) head coaching experience,
2) familiarity with the version of the spread as implemented by Carroll,
3) willingness to adopt the defensive scheme as already put in place,
4) willingness to accept the somewhat "limited" salary (as compared to other schools) paid by the Carroll ISD for the head coaching position,
In other words, the search was looking for a head coaching successor to Dodge who would not change the systems already in place at Carroll and which seemed to be working pretty well by any metric. That was not due to Riley's continued role at QB, but to the success that had been achieved using the offensive and defensive arrangements since Dodge's initial seasons as Carroll. No, Hal Wasson was not pre-selected for the position. There were others that Carroll would like to have interviwed, but, for whatever reason, were not interested, including having already taken a position elsewhere or having not applied for the position in the first place.
15Adragon
11-30-2008, 08:34 PM
No, and honestly, I really want to know what everyone thinks should have been done by our coaches, when given the chance to change.
As I look back at most initial drives of 3Q, we generally got things done.
Vs. CH, we have a shutout thru 2Q's and lose our safety. What adjustments do you make?
With the injury, you are correct. I don't know what we could have done with the D to stop Chill. We have struggled all season with strong downhill runners. That could be related to injuries in the middle of the D. We overcame FMM by out scoring them. We were unable to do this with Chill and Hebron. They were very good teams. IMO, the only way we beat a team like Chill is to force them to throw the ball. I would say the Chill game was lost by the inability of the O to score points.
We did make a nice adjustment on O to start the second half. They were blitzing the outside LB or S I'm not sure who but they were coming from the outside. We started the second half with a couple of well timed QB draws.
The head coach for SLC has got to be the hardest job in HS sports anywhere and for very little pay. I can't imagine how anybody could follow the run we had for the last several years.
The amazing thing about this is that inspite of all of the obstacles that we had this season it was right there for us to take. Chill, Wylie, and Hebron are great teams but I do believe that those could have been winnable games for this team. Yes we would have been the underdogs against H and W and we should have been considered underdogs against Chill. It would have been a big accomplishment but it was there. I really think the winner of the Chill/Wylie game will win it all. Region 1 was tough. - nuf said.
CCHS77
11-30-2008, 10:16 PM
I dont buy it, but lets just say thats true... Whats the excuse for last season?... Where Riley, Newton and several other seniors made it plainly known that they disagreed with the staff over the lack of a real offensive game plan.
My son, when he was Sr. (17) thought he knew more than me about 98% of the time. In private, he got by with questioning my judgment, cause I owed it to him to explain my position. In public? No Damn Way! Not the way my team works.
Coach Wasson had to walk an "interesting" tightrope with some of the stars he inherited.
My son, when he was Sr. (17) thought he knew more than me about 98% of the time. In private, he got by with questioning my judgment, cause I owed it to him to explain my position. In public? No Damn Way! Not the way my team works.
Coach Wasson had to walk an "interesting" tightrope with some of the stars he inherited.
So screw em... Regardless if your right or not.. Those stars he inherited knew what it took to win and knew what plays worked best and knew they should be driving with the throttle down at all times.
SLCfan2407
12-01-2008, 01:52 AM
Crunked, TD would not be in Wasson's position. Let's say TD inherited the program Wasson has after Wasson decided to leave for UNT and after Wasson had won 4 out of 5 straight state championships. If the same results were to occur, then Yes, I would say the same of TD.
SLCfan2407
12-01-2008, 02:00 AM
Adjustments- can someone help me understand what adjustments good coaches generally make at halftime, or during the game for that matter?
..."Coaches should be able to adjust not only at the half, but on the fly as well. Using adjustments, keeps the other coaches on their heels. It allows us to not be so predictable. Football is like a game of chess, you put your pieces in place to win, if it doesn't work, then you move your pieces around. Charlie Stalcup did, as did Ron Mendoza which is obvious because our offense could not do anything in the second half of the CHill game"...
We lost the game, so generally, it was due to a lack of adjustments.
..."We did lose and it was because no adjustments were found as it was all year."...
For instance, we had CH down 7-0. What adjustments should we have made defensively, to insure our chances to win?
..."CHill came out on offense and used a tight end to double up on Jackson Richards in the second half. Why not swap your ends? that is an adjustment. Why not move Jackson at a DT once in a while or Brayden once in a while and place Ben Perry at DE. I had seen that package a couple times earlier in the year."
"Hebron game same story. They ran a zone read play which gave their QB the ability to read our end and either give it to the running back or keep it and go around our end. The QB did just that, went around our end for 6 most times. My question is, instead of letting your LB crash down on the back and leaving your DE to contain an athletic, obviously faster, quarterback, WHY not put your better athlete (LB) to take care of the quarterback and let your END crash on the runningback. We continued to let our end take care of the QB and it did not happen. We should have ADJUSTED."...
When CH started their first 2 second half drives inside the Dragon 30, what adjustments should the coaches have made to their initial halftime adjustments, so that the Longhorns would not score twice and go up 14-10?
..."Not leaving David in the pocket. His strength is his running ability, not his throwing ability. Why not roll him out and put him on the edge to where he can either throw or run if nothing is open. That is an adjustment!"...
Offensively, we didn't make the right adjustments at half, yet took the second half kick and drove it to the 4 yard line? What adjustments should we have made?
..."Instead of running our QB three times, we maybe could have given it to Tommy or tried a pass, who knows? That may have been an adjustment."...
For that matter, offensively, I recall initial second half drives against Coppel and Hebron resulting in long drive scores. What adjustments should the coaches have made, to insure that we score more points in the second half?
..."You just answered your question, we scored and then we didn't score again for a while. The opposing coaches adjusted their schemes to what we were doing, they exploited us, and we continued to let them tear us apart."...
During our 8 wins this year, why didn't the coaches make better adjustments?
..."Because they didn't adjust all year! That is why we only had 8 wins instead of, 12, at this point in the season."...
Maybe the ANSWER is: Our coaches did make the right halftime adjustments.
..."NOT A CHANCE!"...
My answers to your questions are in quotations! with three periods in front and behind the end!
Had these adjustments been performed and our kids just did not execute, I would have no problem with that. I do however have a problem with the coaches not adjusting, and leaving it on the kids shoulders saying "we did not want it tonight" or "they were a bigger stronger faster team." Which team do we play that isn't bigger than us?? Maybe the 8th grade team, but maybe;). Like I have posted before, I think Hal is great for these kids. He is a great man! Coach? Different story. I do not think he fits these kids well on the field. How do you explain giving up two 14 point leads in the Coppell game? How do you explain getting blown out by Hebron 44-28 when the score at one point was 29-28 in the 4th. How do you explain giving up 28 unanswered points to a CHill team we had down 10-0 at the half. ADJUSTMENTS sir is what I would respond with. Other teams made them, and we did not, hence why we are home so early this season.
Everyone wants to make an excuse that our talent level was down. Defense wins championships, that is how the slogan goes right? This year's defense was supposed to be the best ever to come through Carroll. That is a very very very complimentary statement. At times they looked like it, but other times they did not. It was when we faced a running team that we did not. Three games where stopping the run was the key. 2 of them we got our tails handed to us!
The definition of insanity is...repeating something over and over and expecting different results. Our coaches were insane for not adjusting and expecting to get different results! That is why I blame this season on adjustments...and I think that falls on the coaches.
HebronHawk
12-01-2008, 06:26 AM
No, and honestly, I really want to know what everyone thinks should have been done by our coaches, when given the chance to change.
As I look back at most initial drives of 3Q, we generally got things done.
Vs. CH, we have a shutout thru 2Q's and lose our safety. What adjustments do you make?
Grab one quickly from another team and throw a Dragon shirt on him. :D
dragonsdaddy
12-01-2008, 06:48 AM
I dont buy it, but lets just say thats true... Whats the excuse for last season?... Where Riley, Newton and several other seniors made it plainly known that they disagreed with the staff over the lack of a real offensive game plan.
please document this fact. as it was plainly known, i am surprised i missed the article. post the link please.
dragonsdaddy
12-01-2008, 06:57 AM
So screw em... Regardless if your right or not.. Those stars he inherited knew what it took to win and knew what plays worked best and knew they should be driving with the throttle down at all times.sounds as if you are suggesting that the inmates should be in charge of the asylum. tell me i am mis-interpretting you. if not, you have become absolutely irrelevant.
DrEdward
12-01-2008, 08:18 AM
So screw em... Regardless if your right or not.. Those stars he inherited knew what it took to win and knew what plays worked best and knew they should be driving with the throttle down at all times.
:eek::eek:
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 08:50 AM
So you would go with an unproven coach over one who went to Middle Tennesee State with coach Dodge in the summer of 2001 to learn the new offense and helped implement it as an assistant and then moved on and proved himself elsewhere as an HC. Interesting..... Hindsight is 20/20 but not many people would agree with you 2 years ago when the interview process was being done.
Where has he proven himself exactly?
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 09:32 AM
Adjustments- can someone help me understand what adjustments good coaches generally make at halftime, or during the game for that matter?
We lost the game, so generally, it was due to a lack of adjustments.
For instance, we had CH down 7-0. What adjustments should we have made defensively, to insure our chances to win?
When CH started their first 2 second half drives inside the Dragon 30, what adjustments should the coaches have made to their initial halftime adjustments, so that the Longhorns would not score twice and go up 14-10?
CH could not run inside, so at half time they ran a two tight end set to double team our DE's. We had run a 3-4 during the season. Why not do that so that our OLB could then handle contain and at that point with the two double teams it is now 7 on 9 actually 6 because the QB was not lead blocker. I like those odds and the talent of our OLB's yup I said it they are good.
Offensively, we didn't make the right adjustments at half, yet took the second half kick and drove it to the 4 yard line? What adjustments should we have made?
Stop trying to run the ball consistently up the middle, the bigger question is that why did we have to settle for 3 rather than getting a TD?
For that matter, offensively, I recall initial second half drives against Coppel and Hebron resulting in long drive scores. What adjustments should the coaches have made, to insure that we score more points in the second half?
During our 8 wins this year, why didn't the coaches make better adjustments?
Maybe the ANSWER is: Our coaches did make the right halftime adjustments.
I think it was a complete lack of any offensive creativity what so ever. Piland could dink and dunk, remember the FM game, then we stopped and went to our new running offense.
I mean there are plenty of adjustments that were not made.
I guess the biggest issue for me is that each game we lost we were in it late in the game and then collapsed. Is it me or has anyone noticed we have had a multitude of injuries the past two years that did not happen in how many years of TD. Is it a coincidence? That really is a question. Is our off season program still as vital and rigorous as in the past? Again I do not know.
For you optimists out there you are running out of excuses/time.
So if I get this right it is your opinion that the last two years our talent level has dropped dramatically, we have had numerous injuries the last two years that we have not had in the past and the coaching staff is is friggin awesome.
And again you guys are the optimists :D.
Now some of you that are being very supportive on here I have spent some time with and watched a few games with and heard you say on numerous occasions during the game, what the F was that, why would they call that play etc etc.
I agree we need to air our dirty laundry a bit more privately but at least be consistent.
I am not calling for an execution but certainly there are some coaching issues that need to be addressed. Can we all agree on that at least?
If not then you have had too much Kool Aid.
These kids deserve better.
OakTreeUp-n-Out
12-01-2008, 09:35 AM
Since this is officially the Dragon fan thread and not just the Hate Hal thread, I have a question - do any of you know if Luke Anderson ended up playing anywhere? His ability to run down guys who got past the 2nd level was pretty special.
Edit: for that matter, what about Brainard?
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 10:07 AM
Since this is officially the Dragon fan thread and not just the Hate Hal thread, I have a question - do any of you know if Luke Anderson ended up playing anywhere? His ability to run down guys who got past the 2nd level was pretty special.
Edit: for that matter, what about Brainard?
I know Luke went to a JC and I think Brainard went to a D3 school.
I will know more in a few
drgnbkr
12-01-2008, 10:08 AM
Since this is officially the Dragon fan thread and not just the Hate Hal thread, I have a question - do any of you know if Luke Anderson ended up playing anywhere? His ability to run down guys who got past the 2nd level was pretty special.
Edit: for that matter, what about Brainard?
You may be on to something...maybe we need a "hate Hal" thread. I haven't heard about either Luke or Brainard.
drgnbkr
12-01-2008, 10:13 AM
I think it was a complete lack of any offensive creativity what so ever. Piland could dink and dunk, remember the FM game, then we stopped and went to our new running offense.
I mean there are plenty of adjustments that were not made.
I guess the biggest issue for me is that each game we lost we were in it late in the game and then collapsed. Is it me or has anyone noticed we have had a multitude of injuries the past two years that did not happen in how many years of TD. Is it a coincidence? That really is a question. Is our off season program still as vital and rigorous as in the past? Again I do not know.
For you optimists out there you are running out of excuses/time.
So if I get this right it is your opinion that the last two years our talent level has dropped dramatically, we have had numerous injuries the last two years that we have not had in the past and the coaching staff is is friggin awesome.
And again you guys are the optimists :D.
Now some of you that are being very supportive on here I have spent some time with and watched a few games with and heard you say on numerous occasions during the game, what the F was that, why would they call that play etc etc.
I agree we need to air our dirty laundry a bit more privately but at least be consistent.
I am not calling for an execution but certainly there are some coaching issues that need to be addressed. Can we all agree on that at least?
If not then you have had too much Kool Aid.
These kids deserve better.
I think there is a difference between questioning a particular play call at a game and questioning a coaches future. I repeat what I have said in past posts..I'm for giving Coach Wasson a season in which his starting QB can finish the season before we call him a failure. IMO if Padron was healthy at the end, the Dragons are still playing.
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 10:14 AM
You may be on to something...maybe we need a "hate Hal" thread. I haven't heard about either Luke or Brainard.
Luke is at Kilgore a JC in East Texas.
Do not know about Brainard.
Olddragondawggreen
12-01-2008, 10:19 AM
Since this is officially the Dragon fan thread and not just the Hate Hal thread, I have a question - do any of you know if Luke Anderson ended up playing anywhere? His ability to run down guys who got past the 2nd level was pretty special.
Edit: for that matter, what about Brainard?
I believe Luke is at Kilgore, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 10:23 AM
I think there is a difference between questioning a particular play call at a game and questioning a coaches future. I repeat what I have said in past posts..I'm for giving Coach Wasson a season in which his starting QB can finish the season before we call him a failure. IMO if Padron was healthy at the end, the Dragons are still playing.
I am behind the coach, first we have no choice so I am going to support him.
I think it is more of a coordinator issue, but they work for him. I am not calling him a failure. I am questioning whether he can take us to the next level. Can he take us past 2 or 3 rounds of the playoffs. In close games our w vs l ratio is horrible. The only close game that we have won was the Marcus game.
Losses- MNW, Abilene,Coppell,Hebron, close in the 4th quarter and of course Cedar Hill.
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 10:42 AM
Luke is at Kilgore a JC in East Texas.
Do not know about Brainard.
Last I heard he walked on at UNT... Not sure if he made the roster or not.
FYI, David Stolzman (LB on 2007 team) walked on and did make the roster at TCU this season.
OakTreeUp-n-Out
12-01-2008, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the updates guys. FYI, I found this blurb on Anderson from much earlier in the season:
"Defensively, the Rangers are getting great play from Luke Anderson who leads the team with 18 tackles."
Source: http://jcfootball.scout.com/2/792352.html
If anyone hears anything on Brainard I'd be interested to know.
drgnbkr
12-01-2008, 11:32 AM
I am behind the coach, first we have no choice so I am going to support him.
I think it is more of a coordinator issue, but they work for him. I am not calling him a failure. I am questioning whether he can take us to the next level. Can he take us past 2 or 3 rounds of the playoffs. In close games our w vs l ratio is horrible. The only close game that we have won was the Marcus game.
Losses- MNW, Abilene,Coppell,Hebron, close in the 4th quarter and of course Cedar Hill.
Outside of MNW, which was a heck of a game that could have gone either way with the #1 vs. #2 teams in the country, 3 of your 4 examples were finished without the senior QB. IMO in High School, QB play is more critical than either college or in the pros. Or at least the lack of experience. I had my preferences also when Dodge left, but I can't fault Wasson overall.
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 11:49 AM
Last I heard he walked on at UNT... Not sure if he made the roster or not.
FYI, David Stolzman (LB on 2007 team) walked on and did make the roster at TCU this season.
I followed that this year and from what I gather he is getting a scholarship for next year.
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 11:51 AM
since we are talking about ex Dragons a little.
Who saw that pass that McElroy threw on Saturday.
Holy crap, comes off the bench cold and throws a rope for a TD in the only place it could be thrown.
It is going to be fun watching him the next 2 years.
15Adragon
12-01-2008, 11:58 AM
Outside of MNW, which was a heck of a game that could have gone either way with the #1 vs. #2 teams in the country, 3 of your 4 examples were finished without the senior QB. IMO in High School, QB play is more critical than either college or in the pros. Or at least the lack of experience. I had my preferences also when Dodge left, but I can't fault Wasson overall.
IMO, if KP had finished the season we would be posting the in the weekly prediction thread. That is not a slight to the other QB's just a fact that it was his time and he was prepared and had a bond with this group. We cruised through a very difficult pre-district schedule averaging 40 points and a lot of yardage. It was conservative but effective. We had several games with multiple 80 and 90 yard drives. These drives ate a lot of time off the clock and kept the D well rested.
Injuries are part of the game so we deal with it. For H and Chill fans I am not saying that we would have won those games - you won beat us. It is just nice to think about KP and what might have happened. Also, RD stays healthy and he could have won 1 for this staff last year. So who knows. That is why it is so interesting to follow.
Lots of hard shots at the talent level this year and a pretty good amount of second guessing coaching moves. The harder one side pushes the harder the other comes back. We are going in circles. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. We were down a little from past years but so is DII this year - there won't be a 16-0 team winning it all. It was winnable with the team, coaches, trainers and fans that we had in place. Time to start lifting, eating and running. :)
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 12:08 PM
I followed that this year and from what I gather he is getting a scholarship for next year.
Pants, which one; Stolzman or Brainard???
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 12:13 PM
IMO, if KP had finished the season we would be posting the in the weekly prediction thread. That is not a slight to the other QB's just a fact that it was his time and he was prepared and had a bond with this group. We cruised through a very difficult pre-district schedule averaging 40 points and a lot of yardage. It was conservative but effective. We had several games with multiple 80 and 90 yard drives. These drives ate a lot of time off the clock and kept the D well rested.
I agree, it seemed like during the Cinco Ranch game KP really started to hit his stride and was clicking. I think the ponies really got a good one with him.
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the updates guys. FYI, I found this blurb on Anderson from much earlier in the season:
"Defensively, the Rangers are getting great play from Luke Anderson who leads the team with 18 tackles."
Source: http://jcfootball.scout.com/2/792352.html
If anyone hears anything on Brainard I'd be interested to know.
Nick Leppo (center) is doing a medical gray shirt at UNT this year as well. He's fully recovered from the ACL injury and is stronger than ever according to highly reliable sources...
toonman
12-01-2008, 01:25 PM
.....there are others that should be strongly considered....Joey F, Joey M....to name a few.
Now we're talking.
toonman
12-01-2008, 01:27 PM
Against Chill we were doing a decent job in the 1st half, then all hell broke loose in the second half. Yes, there was an injury, but we didn't make the adjustments, and chill did and burned us.
You call 98 yards of total offense in the first half a decent job. If this is now what a decent job is for the Dragons; then we are in for some very lean years to come.
please document this fact. as it was plainly known, i am surprised i missed the article. post the link please.
If you were at the games, you wouldnt need an article.. You could see it. I will also go off of word of mouth from those who were in the locker rooms at halftimes and heard and seen it first hand.
sounds as if you are suggesting that the inmates should be in charge of the asylum. tell me i am mis-interpretting you. if not, you have become absolutely irrelevant.
No. I'm talking as if I were the coach of those kids.. Screw what the kids(who knew the sytem) thought right? Whether you thought you were wrong or not? Your the coach, so forget it if my all world QB has a point.
I get it needing to go both ways.. Coach to player and player to coach... But if Riley was my QB and Tre was my RB.. I would listen to their input as to what works and what dont.
toonman
12-01-2008, 01:36 PM
.....I am questioning whether he can take us to the next level. Can he take us past 2 or 3 rounds of the playoffs.
Any one know the deepest Wasson has taken a team into the play-offs in his 20 years of coaching.
:eek::eek:
Sorry Doc... I didnt mean it how I wrote it.
I am behind the coach, first we have no choice so I am going to support him.
I think it is more of a coordinator issue, but they work for him. I am not calling him a failure. I am questioning whether he can take us to the next level. Can he take us past 2 or 3 rounds of the playoffs. In close games our w vs l ratio is horrible. The only close game that we have won was the Marcus game.
Losses- MNW, Abilene,Coppell,Hebron, close in the 4th quarter and of course Cedar Hill.
All that.^^
dragonpants
12-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Pants, which one; Stolzman or Brainard???
Stolzman
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Stolzman
Thanks Pants and good for him!
Southlake Carroll Dragons
12-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Look at this hit Dallas Skyline's defense made. Dang:eek: Here is the link http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/videopage-special.html?nvid=308869
DragonFan0316
12-01-2008, 04:37 PM
The boys started off season today. They only turned in equipment but let the count down begin.
Southlake Carroll Dragons
12-01-2008, 04:47 PM
On saturday before the Cedar Hill vs. Mansfield game I went to go get a bit to eat at kincaid hamburgers never had it before. It was good but I saw the Head Coach for Odessa Permian there asked him if he was and checked on the mojo website and it was for sure him. He had his black jacket on the famous letter P on it. His wife and kids were there dont know why since they lost to allen the day before. Weird for him being there dont know if he had an interview for a the head coaching position. I want Wasson to stay but just to have better play calling.
crunked9
12-01-2008, 04:53 PM
I want to start by appologizing to any players I called out. That was very wrong of me. I am a fan, not a coach or someone on the inside so my opionions are just that, opinions.
Moving on,
SLC's problems....
A little of column 'A', a little of column 'B'.
No one issue.
Coaching, execution, players, fans, practice, etc. could all get better.
And I think they will.
I feel very sorry for any Senior who gets hurt and misses alot of time.
I agree that if KP was in all year, things would of been alot different.
I hope that CW can get ahold of the rope and pull the ship in the best direction. I think he can. I think he might have to do somethings he wont like. But he is a good coach, and the players at SLC are good/great year in and year out.
They all just need realize it and also realize that nothing is easy, it all has to be earned. Which comes from hard work, perfectionism(not to a point of being crazy), doing things right all the time(on and off the field), team work, the fine line between being confident and cocky, and always having fun.
I want nothing but the best for all the Dragons.
Becasue I love to talk mess to college buddies that aren't from SLC!
green day
12-01-2008, 05:01 PM
..."NOT A CHANCE!"...
My answers to your questions are in quotations! with three periods in front and behind the end!
Had these adjustments been performed and our kids just did not execute, I would have no problem with that. I do however have a problem with the coaches not adjusting, and leaving it on the kids shoulders saying "we did not want it tonight" or "they were a bigger stronger faster team." Which team do we play that isn't bigger than us?? Maybe the 8th grade team, but maybe;). Like I have posted before, I think Hal is great for these kids. He is a great man! Coach? Different story. I do not think he fits these kids well on the field. How do you explain giving up two 14 point leads in the Coppell game? How do you explain getting blown out by Hebron 44-28 when the score at one point was 29-28 in the 4th. How do you explain giving up 28 unanswered points to a CHill team we had down 10-0 at the half. ADJUSTMENTS sir is what I would respond with. Other teams made them, and we did not, hence why we are home so early this season.
Everyone wants to make an excuse that our talent level was down. Defense wins championships, that is how the slogan goes right? This year's defense was supposed to be the best ever to come through Carroll. That is a very very very complimentary statement. At times they looked like it, but other times they did not. It was when we faced a running team that we did not. Three games where stopping the run was the key. 2 of them we got our tails handed to us!
The definition of insanity is...repeating something over and over and expecting different results. Our coaches were insane for not adjusting and expecting to get different results! That is why I blame this season on adjustments...and I think that falls on the coaches.
Not sure I agree with it all, but that was/is a helluva post...nicely done!!
The boys started off season today. They only turned in equipment but let the count down begin.
Spring ball here we come.:notworthy
crunked9
12-01-2008, 05:13 PM
The boys started off season today. They only turned in equipment but let the count down begin.
Better now than the monday after the regular season ended!
Been there!
CCCSportsFan
12-01-2008, 05:48 PM
Spring ball here we come.:notworthy
Heard some monster amounts of weight were being benched today by our MLB and RDE... These 2 are already getting after the 2009 season it appears :)
Heard some monster amounts of weight were being benched today by our MLB and RDE... These 2 are already getting after the 2009 season it appears :)
I love it... No kids have a better work ethic than Carroll has..:)
OakTreeUp-n-Out
12-01-2008, 06:16 PM
Heard some monster amounts of weight were being benched today by our MLB and RDE... These 2 are already getting after the 2009 season it appears :)
Sounds like the coaches won't have much trouble finding leadership in offseason workouts.
dragonsdaddy
12-01-2008, 07:07 PM
since we are talking about ex Dragons a little.
Who saw that pass that McElroy threw on Saturday.
Holy crap, comes off the bench cold and throws a rope for a TD in the only place it could be thrown.
It is going to be fun watching him the next 2 years.
yeah, i watched 2 plays. when he dropped back, i thought that it sure looked like mac. when he let it go in his inimitable way, i knew it was him. i expected exactly what i saw. dead solid perfect. i hope saban can use him to his fullest. he is going to be something special.
drgnbkr
12-01-2008, 07:20 PM
yeah, i watched 2 plays. when he dropped back, i thought that it sure looked like mac. when he let it go in his inimitable way, i knew it was him. i expected exactly what i saw. dead solid perfect. i hope saban can use him to his fullest. he is going to be something special.
Quite a ride for Mac...QB & leader of the number one team in the country his senior year of High School, now playing for number one in the country in College! Anyone who has met him knows he is a great young man.
green day
12-01-2008, 07:36 PM
Ironocally, while Daniel and "Bama QB Peter Tom Willis, or whatever his name is, have been Mr Friday and Saturday, Greg Mac might have best chance of being Mr Sunday...
BigRing5311
12-01-2008, 07:59 PM
Ironocally, while Daniel and "Bama QB Peter Tom Willis, or whatever his name is, have been Mr Friday and Saturday, Greg Mac might have best chance of being Mr Sunday...
John Parker Wilson..."Peter Tom Willis"...now that was funny.
If Saban does what Dragonsdaddy says, "hopes he uses Mac to his fullest", then yes I'm with you on him having the best chance of being Mr. Sunday. If Mac isn't at the helm of the "tide" by the end of spring there are probably 118 programs that would like to speak with him.
gasman
12-01-2008, 08:03 PM
Like any Dragon fan, I want the team to succeed and not just in football. But I’ll restrict myself to football here. By any measure, save with a comparison to our own rather illustrious past, the Dragons had a successful year in each of the last two seasons. Carroll was able to play a maximum of 31 games over the past two years and actually played in 24 such games, or 77% of those in which it could appear under UIL rules. In 2007, Carroll won 79% of the games in which it played. In 2008, Carroll won 73% of the games in which it played against one of the more difficult schedules in the state. Of course, these are low in comparison to the balance of the previous 5A years in which the Dragons played in 100% of the 16 possible games each season. Save for 2003, the corresponding winning percentages would also be 100% each season; 94% in 2003. While a lofty objective, to gauge every season by such a standard is flat out unrealistic. As the stats make clear, the 2008 Dragons were an above average high school football team, but not as good as Carroll has managed to put on the field in the past. Nothing to be ashamed about there; one can and should expect variations from year to year. The debate on here seems to be about who is to "blame" for this failure to achieve perfection.
To begin with, Todd Dodge did Carroll no favors when he left for UNT. I am not talking about his leaving personally, but rather in the number of coaches he took with him from Carroll, including the defensive coordinator plus Carroll’s longest serving coach at that time. But he also took the two most likely heirs for the Carroll head coaching position to UNT with him in the forms of Coach Ford and Coach George. This is not intended to be a shot at Dodge, but only to point out that the Carroll staff was taken apart beyond the head coaching level and that Wasson was not necessarily a shoe-in for the job.
Certainly Wasson is a more conservative coach than was Todd Dodge, but so was Bob Ledbetter. Yet it would seem that the latter managed to do okay in coaching at Carroll. However, that success did not come immediately to Ledbetter in terms of championships at Carroll. Nor did it for Dodge. Why should we expect it to for Wasson? A great hope perhaps, but not necessarily a reasonable expectation. Couple that with a substantial changeover in the coaching staff and there will certainly be some bumps to be worked out.
I think and hope that the Carroll coaching staff will work in the off-season (which came all too quickly) to examine what actually happened. That will hopefully include a self-examination. However, I am not convinced that the coaching staff deserves some of the comments directed at it. As I tried to argue in the aftermath of the Carroll-Coppell game, the Dragon offense was quite inconsistent this season, looking quite good at some points and less than effective at others. This inconsistency may be a good reason underlying the more conservative play calling by the staff. As has been pointed out by others, the passing game was not what it has been, even though it was not bad by any standard. Too many balls on the ground too often. By the way, the same pattern was noticed in 7 on 7 over the summer where the coaches are not directly involved.
One thing that seemed to be missing this season was on-field leaders who could take charge on the field during the game. That role typically lands with a senior on each side of the ball. Yet the obvious candidate on offense was gone. None that I saw ever really emerged on defense, but there were few seniors on that side in position to assume such a role. Need to look for that to change. Closely related was the tendency for the team to get their heads down after things didn’t go their way. Whether that is simply a reflection of the players’ personalities or more effort is required by the coaching staff, I don’t know. I suspect both. But if it is the former, then the coaches must step up their efforts, but it will be difficult. The psych types should step in here.
It has also been noted relative to team speed that Carroll was not as fast as they have been in the past. Well, given that we have had state-ranked and winning sprinters on the team previously, no kidding. That is not to say that the receivers or backs were slow; they were not. But what was missing was simply the acceleration ability during a route to get separation from defenders. Still, they managed to get open, yet Carroll did not always manage to get the ball to them or if the ball was there, no completion. More practice with each other playing pitch and catch. But again, perhaps a likely reason underlying the more cautious play calling.
Along the same lines, tackling seemed to be a problem on occasion. Yet, these young men have been playing football together for quite some time now. I have to believe that they do know how to tackle, but just in case, some back to basics might be called for. Still, perhaps the issue was quickness and positioning. Too often it seemed that the tacklers were simply not in position to make a stop. Incorrect defensive alignment? Maybe and if so, the coaching needs to adjust. Or were there simply some pretty quick backs on other teams relative to our defense? I suspect there was some of that; actually a good bit of that. If so, track and field has a lot to recommend it in the spring for all football players, including linemen. In addition, we can always use more shot putters and throwers. Too few realize that the weights are also acceleration events as well as strength events. So if you’re not playing baseball in the spring, work on quickness in track.
One final thought - fans. We don’t get off the hook either. I realize that I am preaching to the choir on here, but the number of empty seats, especially in the reserved sections is extraordinarily disappointing and has gotten worse in recent years. Where are these people? I know previous school boards made life miserable for dedicated football types around Carroll and caused many to get rid of their season tickets. But those are no longer on the school board. So where is everyone? Way too many empty seats at the start of the home games. Is this entire tailgating thing so out of hand that people are simply staying in the parking lots too damn long? If so, shut the things down early and get to your seats prior to the introductions, etc. If you know someone who has season tickets, but not using them, find out why not and let’s fix this nonsense. Away games have become even worse. It seemed to get bad in the trip to SFA against Lufkin a couple of years back. A game of that importance and we can’t find the time to go? But now, it would seem like Hebron has become too far to go for too many. Ugh. Yes, the traffic sucks, so get there a bit early. But get out and support the kids on Friday evenings. No, it’s not you, but feel free to rag on those "fans" whom you know thinking it is just too much hassle to go to the game. An ‘05 Carroll team doesn’t need our sorry butts in the stand, for they were that good; other teams do.
So, I will now shut up for a while. There is always room for improvements in any program. But, in my opinion, the criticisms being leveled at the coaches and, to a lesser degree the players, is not completely warranted. Carroll will be back to form.
Wow!!!! What a supurb posting. I totally agree.:notworthy:notworthy
Memorial76
12-01-2008, 08:16 PM
Quite a ride for Mac...QB & leader of the number one team in the country his senior year of High School, now playing for number one in the country in College! Anyone who has met him knows he is a great young man.
I was at the Alabama game on Saturday. The fans love him! I am glad he picked #12!
dragons08
12-01-2008, 09:54 PM
You call 98 yards of total offense in the first half a decent job. If this is now what a decent job is for the Dragons; then we are in for some very lean years to come.
I was referring to the defense doing a decent job of stopping the run.
dragons08
12-01-2008, 09:58 PM
Quite a ride for Mac...QB & leader of the number one team in the country his senior year of High School, now playing for number one in the country in College! Anyone who has met him knows he is a great young man.
I've met him, and he is a humble guy too.
How he stepped into the shoes after CD as a senior and with all the hype and all that, and performed the way he did is amazing.
yeah, i watched 2 plays. when he dropped back, i thought that it sure looked like mac. when he let it go in his inimitable way, i knew it was him. i expected exactly what i saw. dead solid perfect. i hope saban can use him to his fullest. he is going to be something special.
Indeed he will be special... He has patiently waited his turn and we all know he will make the best of it... He's gonna be fun to watch.
Quite a ride for Mac...QB & leader of the number one team in the country his senior year of High School, now playing for number one in the country in College! Anyone who has met him knows he is a great young man.
He is an outstanding young man and a hell of a QB.. Saban will love his leadership qualities as much as his QB skills.. Those WR's at Bama better be ready for a stud throwing em balls.. I'm no Bama fan, but he will make it fun to watch them.
caveman
12-02-2008, 06:12 AM
He is an outstanding young man and a hell of a QB.. Saban will love his leadership qualities as much as his QB skills.. Those WR's at Bama better be ready for a stud throwing em balls.. I'm no Bama fan, but he will make it fun to watch them.
May sound funny.
But I miss seeing you guys, on the bracket stump and seeing your clever posts.
That is why next year is a new year, right;):notworthy
CCCSportsFan
12-02-2008, 07:06 AM
May sound funny.
But I miss seeing you guys, on the bracket stump and seeing your clever posts.
That is why next year is a new year, right;):notworthy
Thanks Cave! We Dragon nation fans are rehashing the past season on here while next years team is already looking forward to and preparing for the 2009 season :D
CCCSportsFan
12-02-2008, 07:08 AM
John Parker Wilson..."Peter Tom Willis"...now that was funny.
Wasn't he an actor :D
May sound funny.
But I miss seeing you guys, on the bracket stump and seeing your clever posts.
That is why next year is a new year, right;):notworthy
Thanks brother.. I'm sure everyone who's team is out of the mix misses the weekly threads as much as we do. It sucks for all involved, but none more than the kids playing on Friday nights that allow us the opportunity to come on here and make such clever posts.
And indeed the new year is quickly approaching and we Carroll fans are looking forward to it.:)
drgnbkr
12-02-2008, 08:40 AM
May sound funny.
But I miss seeing you guys, on the bracket stump and seeing your clever posts.
That is why next year is a new year, right;):notworthy
Everyone still playing sucks and the Dragons could beat them all! .....;)
Wasn't he an actor :D
In one way the other I would imagine so.. :D
Maxthedog
12-02-2008, 09:20 AM
Everyone still playing sucks and the Dragons could beat them all! .....;)
Agreed.
trojanbacker
12-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Hey!
drgnbkr
12-02-2008, 09:56 AM
Hey!
What?:p
KatyTigerDad0407
12-02-2008, 10:04 AM
Everyone still playing sucks and the Dragons could beat them all! .....;)Not everyone, but I know Carroll could put an 'L' on several.
dragonpants
12-02-2008, 10:25 AM
I've met him, and he is a humble guy too.
How he stepped into the shoes after CD as a senior and with all the hype and all that, and performed the way he did is amazing.
He was fantastic and had a couple of guys who could catch also. :D
Four D1 wide receivers, damn.
DrEdward
12-02-2008, 10:35 AM
Hey!
It was a good line anyway. But we already have our five wins for the season so we are done. :( Now you guys go take care of business.
dragons08
12-02-2008, 12:27 PM
He was fantastic and had a couple of guys who could catch also. :D
Four D1 wide receivers, damn.
Yeah man, but still watching him throw was a thing of beauty.
dragonpants
12-02-2008, 12:51 PM
Yeah man, but still watching him throw was a thing of beauty.
Yup, KP was much more of a McElroy than a Riley.
Both were incredible.
I just could not believe that pass on Saturday, incredible coming off the bench like that, scary talent. Could you imagine if he was warmed up.
It would be interesting to know how "open" the position was in spring and fall practices or if Wilson already had the job.
Greg's numbers in the spring game were impressive.
dragonsdaddy
12-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Yup, KP was much more of a McElroy than a Riley.
Both were incredible.
I just could not believe that pass on Saturday, incredible coming off the bench like that, scary talent. Could you imagine if he was warmed up.
It would be interesting to know how "open" the position was in spring and fall practices or if Wilson already had the job.
Greg's numbers in the spring game were impressive.
mac had zero chance to beat out the local, returning starter. the alabama faction would have taken saban to the woodshed, and greg would have had to wow to survive.
SLCfan2407
12-02-2008, 04:36 PM
Not sure I agree with it all, but that was/is a helluva post...nicely done!!
Thank you sir! I was not jumping on anyone, I was just posting an opinion and that's all it was. Hopefully you do not feel I attacked you, that is not what I was doing. I was posting my opinion, you do not have to agree, honestly I do not feel most would agree with me. But that is ok, because everyone has their opinion and everyone wants to see the Dragons at their best. I think we can all agree to disagree if that is the case :D
Good day sir, thanks for your comment!
green day
12-02-2008, 08:11 PM
Wasn't he an actor :D
No, but they both are entries in the 3 name Quarterback question. Others include...
Billy Jo Tolliver
Norm Van Brocklin
Jim Ray Hart
" Move it to the Yard!!!"- dragonsdaddy
dragons08
12-02-2008, 10:27 PM
mac had zero chance to beat out the local, returning starter. the alabama faction would have taken saban to the woodshed, and greg would have had to wow to survive.
Was Mac redshirted frosh year?
mac had zero chance to beat out the local, returning starter. the alabama faction would have taken saban to the woodshed, and greg would have had to wow to survive.
I agree. Though I also believe Mc could have won them over with his play. Just real happy for him to have the chance to show what he can do.
Was Mac redshirted frosh year?
Yes.
Carroll Dragon fans.. I'm pleased to announce that former Carroll offensive linemen Adam Ulatoski has made the 1st team all Big 12 Offense.
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=3626465
OakTreeUp-n-Out
12-03-2008, 01:03 AM
No, but they both are entries in the 3 name Quarterback question. Others include...
Billy Jo Tolliver
Norm Van Brocklin
Jim Ray Hart
Alex Van Pelt (Pitt)
John David Phillips (Bama)
Bo Levi Mitchell (SMU)
Bradley Van Pelt (Col State)
That's all I got.
DrEdward
12-03-2008, 03:04 AM
mac had zero chance to beat out the local, returning starter. the alabama faction would have taken saban to the woodshed, and greg would have had to wow to survive.
True. Yet they still think very highly of Greg or they would not have assigned him the # 12. That is a pretty special number at the University of Alabama.
CCCSportsFan
12-03-2008, 07:57 AM
No, but they both are entries in the 3 name Quarterback question. Others include...
Billy Jo Tolliver
Norm Van Brocklin
Jim Ray Hart
I'd forgot Peter Tom Willis was a QB for Florida State about 20 years ago... His name just sounded like the name of a character Burt Reynolds or Mac Davis would have played in a football movie :D
crunked9
12-03-2008, 09:37 AM
Carroll Dragon fans.. I'm pleased to announce that former Carroll offensive linemen Adam Ulatoski has made the 1st team all Big 12 Offense.
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=3626465
Mike Waszowski
Mike Waszowski
The green monster with horns... Its true.
I thought it was Wazowski though?...
crunked9
12-03-2008, 12:10 PM
The green monster with horns... Its true.
I thought it was Wazowski though?...
That was the spelling I found on line. Could be either one.
I used to call him that all the time
zippy
12-03-2008, 12:20 PM
Dang, what happened to the mighty dragons this year? What have you guys turned to this early in the year since the dragons are no longer alive? Must be weird for you.. Have a great day.
DrEdward
12-03-2008, 12:29 PM
Dang, what happened to the mighty dragons this year? What have you guys turned to this early in the year since the dragons are no longer alive? Must be weird for you.. Have a great day.
This last weekend was certainly different. First time in over a decade that the Dragons were not playing on the weekend after Thanksgviing. :( So, yes, it did seem strange around these parts. On the other hand, it did leave me free at least to watch my Hokies take down the Hoos on Saturday live. So that was a plus. In addition, Carroll fans can now just go watch the better games around with much less stress involved.
zippy
12-03-2008, 12:36 PM
This last weekend was certainly different. First time in over a decade that the Dragons were not playing on the weekend after Thanksgviing. :( So, yes, it did seem strange around these parts. On the other hand, it did leave me free at least to watch my Hokies take down the Hoos on Saturday live. So that was a plus. In addition, Carroll fans can now just go watch the better games around with much less stress involved.
I remember a couple of years ago SV went out in the first round, it was very strange. I did not know what to do on weekends. I too got to see some very good games other than SV around the state for a change. Oh year, get a DVR! I never miss good college games even if my team is still playing HS ball! Well, another year of no chance of another SV vs SLC final. Maybe next year.
SLCFan
12-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Carroll fans go vote we are down to Cedar Park!
http://5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=42136
DrEdward
12-03-2008, 12:42 PM
I remember a couple of years ago SV went out in the first round, it was very strange. I did not know what to do on weekends. I too got to see some very good games other than SV around the state for a change. Oh year, get a DVR! I never miss good college games even if my team is still playing HS ball! Well, another year of no chance of another SV vs SLC final. Maybe next year.
I do record them on my DVR, but it is much more entertaining to watch the games with a bunch of friends and fellow alumni than in a real time environment.
I am actually a bit more optimistic about Carroll's chances next season than I was for this year's team. But we shall see after spring ball and 7 0n 7 games.
In the meantime, it is sufficiently hard to remember what we used to do on Friday nights and Saturdays during the fall when no high school ball involving the Dragons was around.
That was the spelling I found on line. Could be either one.
I used to call him that all the time
He is indeed a beast.:cool:
toonman
12-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Is this life now when you lose in the second round of the play-offs. No one posts about the Dragons for over 9 hours.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 10:13 AM
i think it is Mel's fault...Since Po Melvin's closed the Dragons have been cursed with injuries and no state titles. I think the Booster Club should consider re-opening the place!
DrEdward
12-04-2008, 10:29 AM
i think it is Mel's fault...Since Po Melvin's closed the Dragons have been cursed with injuries and no state titles. I think the Booster Club should consider re-opening the place!
:Censor:, you may be correct, at least with respect to football. The Dragons have had state championship success in other sports, including the other football, since Mel shut down.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 10:40 AM
:Censor:, you may be correct, at least with respect to football. The Dragons have had state championship success in other sports, including the other football, since Mel shut down.
Yep, you're right! Our other sports/activities continue with their success, and football has been rewarding, but Mel's was our special post football place that has yet to be replaced.
DrEdward
12-04-2008, 10:53 AM
Yep, you're right! Our other sports/activities continue with their success, and football has been rewarding, but Mel's was our special post football place that has yet to be replaced.
I like your idea. We could have Booster Club meetings there and with Happy Hour, that would certainly increase the attendance. Farmer might even come over and join in on occasion. Could move the Dragon's Den into the place as well. If we could get the Town Square folks to offer any sort of decent rental arrangement, this could work! :cool:
dragons08
12-04-2008, 12:02 PM
I like your idea. We could have Booster Club meetings there and with Happy Hour, that would certainly increase the attendance. Farmer might even come over and join in on occasion. Could move the Dragon's Den into the place as well. If we could get the Town Square folks to offer any sort of decent rental arrangement, this could work! :cool:
So, in other words, it'll never happen.
Is this life now when you lose in the second round of the play-offs. No one posts about the Dragons for over 9 hours.
Actually thats about 19 hours.:(
Weve got to have something to talk about.. hmm
So who is going to travel to North Shore next season to see the Dragons win?
And.. is Bellaire coming back to Dragon stadium, or are we going there?
dragonsdaddy
12-04-2008, 12:07 PM
I like your idea. We could have Booster Club meetings there and with Happy Hour, that would certainly increase the attendance. Farmer might even come over and join in on occasion. Could move the Dragon's Den into the place as well. If we could get the Town Square folks to offer any sort of decent rental arrangement, mel would not have left in the first place.:
fify
fify
This... Absolutely this.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 12:12 PM
Actually thats about 19 hours.:(
Weve got to have something to talk about.. hmm
So who is going to travel to North Shore next season to see the Dragons win?
And.. is Bellaire coming back to Dragon stadium, or are we going there?
I'm going to NS, wouldn't miss it! Bellaire comes to Dragon Stadium.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 12:15 PM
fify
If you think back through all of the restaurants and other businesses that have closed in Southlake, almost all are rent related and many are still empty spaces.
dragons08
12-04-2008, 12:24 PM
If you think back through all of the restaurants and other businesses that have closed in Southlake, almost all are rent related and many are still empty spaces.
Then we have Robb and Stucky demolish a parking lot to build a huge store, that I am certain will be closed within the next 5 years.
dragons08
12-04-2008, 12:25 PM
Actually thats about 19 hours.:(
Weve got to have something to talk about.. hmm
So who is going to travel to North Shore next season to see the Dragons win?
And.. is Bellaire coming back to Dragon stadium, or are we going there?
Count me out.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 12:27 PM
Count me out.
D08=out
dragons08
12-04-2008, 12:29 PM
D08=out
http://garfieldtroop227.org/myPictures/peaceout.jpg
I'm going to NS, wouldn't miss it! Bellaire comes to Dragon Stadium.
Sweet. I'm going as well.. Should be alot of fun for the boys.. I've heard North Shore will not be as strong next season, but you gotta figure they will fight us hard.. especially if their regular season win streak is still intact at that point.
Count me out.
Why?... it'll be cool.
dragonsdaddy
12-04-2008, 02:43 PM
Why?... it'll be cool.
cool in september in harris cty. i don't think so.
drgnbkr
12-04-2008, 02:45 PM
cool in september in harris cty. i don't think so.
At least there will be big skeeters!
cool in september in harris cty. i don't think so.
LMAO.. Ok.. let me change that... It'll be fun.
slcdragonfan
12-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Actually thats about 19 hours.:(
Weve got to have something to talk about.. hmm
So who is going to travel to North Shore next season to see the Dragons win?
And.. is Bellaire coming back to Dragon stadium, or are we going there?
I will be at the North Shore game. Most assuredly.
slcdragonfan
12-04-2008, 05:51 PM
Then we have Robb and Stucky demolish a parking lot to build a huge store, that I am certain will be closed within the next 5 years.
Agreed. And maybe within 2-3 years.
Southlake Carroll Dragons
12-04-2008, 07:14 PM
I will be at the North Shore game for sure hopefully to watch my brother who is a junior next year and I want to make it to the game at the new Cowboy stadium. Next season is going to be a great season I think:notworthy The coaches will get it right this year.:notworthy
dragons08
12-04-2008, 08:41 PM
Why?... it'll be cool.
If all goes well i'll be down in Austin.
So you can give me a lift on ze way!
Sakatha
12-04-2008, 09:01 PM
Pretty sure I saw Williamson workin w/a few folks up at CMS today after school. Betting there's a little more hunger with some of these boys than in years past...
~DnM
dragons08
12-04-2008, 09:06 PM
Pretty sure I saw Williamson workin w/a few folks up at CMS today after school. Betting there's a little more hunger with some of these boys than in years past...
~DnM
I remember the same thing last year too. We would be out there playing football on weekends and football players would be on the track running and working out. Even joined us at times.
crunked9
12-04-2008, 09:54 PM
I remember the same thing last year too. We would be out there playing football on weekends and football players would be on the track running and working out. Even joined us at times.
WHOA.....WHAT???
Running on thier own?? DUMB!
I will be at the North Shore game for sure hopefully to watch my brother who is a junior next year and I want to make it to the game at the new Cowboy stadium. Next season is going to be a great season I think:notworthy The coaches will get it right this year.:notworthy
I believe next season will be great.. And I believe Hal and the rest of the staff will be on top of their game as well. It should be exciting to watch this team next season.. The most intriging area to watch should be what happens at QB.
If all goes well i'll be down in Austin.
So you can give me a lift on ze way!
Whatcha going to Austin for?
And Austin is not on the way to Houston.
Pretty sure I saw Williamson workin w/a few folks up at CMS today after school. Betting there's a little more hunger with some of these boys than in years past...
~DnM
It will be very interesting to see who wins the starting spot next season.. Something tells me that KW will win it.
DrEdward
12-04-2008, 11:12 PM
fify
They drove REB Photo out as well.
WHOA.....WHAT???
Running on thier own?? DUMB!
What do you mean?
DrEdward
12-04-2008, 11:19 PM
The Bellaire game will be at Dragon Stadium next season, if it takes place. I am not so sure that the North Shore game will take place in Galena Park either. When the games were cancelled this season, I would assume, although I have not checked, that the remaining contract was essentially voided. Now that does not mean that such games might not take place. But the Bellaire games was already scheduled to be played in Dragon Stadium in 2009. I would find it more likely that if the North Shore game were to take place, that it would be at a neutral site such as Waco ISD rather than at their place.
The Bellaire game will be at Dragon Stadium next season, if it takes place. I am not so sure that the North Shore game will take place in Galena Park either. When the games were cancelled this season, I would assume, although I have not checked, that the remaining contract was essentially voided. Now that does not mean that such games might not take place. But the Bellaire games was already scheduled to be played in Dragon Stadium in 2009. I would find it more likely that if the North Shore game were to take place, that it would be at a neutral site such as Waco ISD rather than at their place.
For some reason I thought we were playing a home and home with North Shore... Was that not the case Doc?
crunked9
12-04-2008, 11:34 PM
What do you mean?
I mean running is dumb!
Hate'd it when they made us do it! Never wanted to do it on my own!
DrEdward
12-04-2008, 11:36 PM
For some reason I thought we were playing a home and home with North Shore... Was that not the case Doc?
North Shore was indeed to be a home and home series. Bellaire was not. The latter was always intended to be two games played at Dragon Stadium. The games were arranged that way to make up for losing a home game with Plano West in the Tom Landry Classic.
In the case of North Shore, the game may still be played in Galena Park. But I think the contract which would have bound both schools was essentially voided by the hurricane cancellation this season. Both schools may still want to play the game. However, I am simply speculating, as I have done with some of the North Shore fans, that as this has become a one game series, that a neutral site with revenue sharing would be a more readily agreed to solution by both schools for revenue maximization purposes.
If the game is to be played in Galena Park, I will of course be there. However, I am not so confident any longer of a large group of Carroll fans willing to make the trip to Houston. It would seem that a number of us believed that Hebron was too far to drive and that it was too warm for Plano West. Houston would have both of those characteristics plus. More fans from Carroll and hence more revenues to be split between the schools might be obtained if the game were played in a neutral and closer site such as Waco.
dragonbuck
12-04-2008, 11:46 PM
Yes there were injuries and less talent, and those are good excuses for not going deep into the playoffs.
But being out coached often, being predictable, not making adjustments, being too conservative, being extremely slow in calling plays, and not connecting with your players....has nothing to do with injuries and talent.
We could do a helluva lot better!
I was not there, but have been told by several parents that Hal did not even speak at the pep rally before the CHILL game. This may sound trivial to some, but to me it is huge and speaks volumes about his leadership, or lack there of. TD was the "main" speaker at the pep rallies and commanded the utmost respect at those events. He would name attack team players of the week, etc, and all were attentive and interested.
My HC in high school spoke at every pep rally, and we won the State Championship of Ohio (beating Cincinnati Moeller in the semifinals Fauts' last game I believe before going to Notre Dame). That is leadership and required even of shy coaches. Heck, TD has been called shy before, but he led his team. Hal is a good man, but when I heard that, coupled with some of his comments about players not wanting it enough, I am really questioning his leadership skills. (not to mention his play calling).
I mean running is dumb!
Hate'd it when they made us do it! Never wanted to do it on my own!
So you dont think it's good for conditioning?
North Shore was indeed to be a home and home series. Bellaire was not. The latter was always intended to be two games played at Dragon Stadium. The games were arranged that way to make up for losing a home game with Plano West in the Tom Landry Classic.
In the case of North Shore, the game may still be played in Galena Park. But I think the contract which would have bound both schools was essentially voided by the hurricane cancellation this season. Both schools may still want to play the game. However, I am simply speculating, as I have done with some of the North Shore fans, that as this has become a one game series, that a neutral site with revenue sharing would be a more readily agreed to solution by both schools for revenue maximization purposes.
If the game is to be played in Galena Park, I will of course be there. However, I am not so confident any longer of a large group of Carroll fans willing to make the trip to Houston. It would seem that a number of us believed that Hebron was too far to drive and that it was too warm for Plano West. Houston would have both of those characteristics plus. More fans from Carroll and hence more revenues to be split between the schools might be obtained if the game were played in a neutral and closer site such as Waco.
Ok. I gotcha on the North Shore game.. That makes sense. And it would makes sense, based on what you said, to make have it at a neutral site.
Yea, as far as where it's played, I will be there regardless of location. Odd that it's to far to drive from Southlake to Hebron for some, and I drive from Sherman to where ever were at to see them play, as was the case for Hebron and P. West at SMU.
I agree that if it's closer we may get more Carroll fans to attend the game, though at that time of year it's gonna be hot, pretty much all across the state.
Southlake Carroll Dragons
12-05-2008, 12:06 AM
I believe next season will be great.. And I believe Hal and the rest of the staff will be on top of their game as well. It should be exciting to watch this team next season.. The most intriging area to watch should be what happens at QB.
I think the RB positions will be really great next year. Also the QB's and WR's
dragonbuck
12-05-2008, 12:28 AM
Alex Van Pelt (Pitt)
John David Phillips (Bama)
Bo Levi Mitchell (SMU)
Bradley Van Pelt (Col State)
That's all I got.
Sorry guys, I don't think "Van" qulaifies as a middle name. Isn't it to Dutch like Mac is to Scottish and Mc is to Irish?
dragonbuck
12-05-2008, 12:36 AM
I like your idea. We could have Booster Club meetings there and with Happy Hour, that would certainly increase the attendance. Farmer might even come over and join in on occasion. Could move the Dragon's Den into the place as well. If we could get the Town Square folks to offer any sort of decent rental arrangement, this could work! :cool:
I saw Mel at Kroger last week. He was with his father preparing for Thanksgiving. Same ol' Mel. He said bizz is good in Irivng and his rent is
$10K less per month than at Townsquare. I miss his Chicken Fried steak (and the scooners of Shiner!). what a great guy. I may go see him for lunch soon. Man I miss those late nights after a Dragon victory, watching replays of the highlights on TV. How about when he covered the whole bar area with plastic prior to our State Championship, knowing it might get a little messy?
OakTreeUp-n-Out
12-05-2008, 01:47 AM
Sorry guys, I don't think "Van" qulaifies as a middle name. Isn't it to Dutch like Mac is to Scottish and Mc is to Irish?
Hey, it's Green Day's game and he set the standard with Norm Van Brocklin. I'm just playing by his rules man. :D
dragonpants
12-05-2008, 06:29 AM
I was not there, but have been told by several parents that Hal did not even speak at the pep rally before the CHILL game. This may sound trivial to some, but to me it is huge and speaks volumes about his leadership, or lack there of. TD was the "main" speaker at the pep rallies and commanded the utmost respect at those events. He would name attack team players of the week, etc, and all were attentive and interested.
My HC in high school spoke at every pep rally, and we won the State Championship of Ohio (beating Cincinnati Moeller in the semifinals Fauts' last game I believe before going to Notre Dame). That is leadership and required even of shy coaches. Heck, TD has been called shy before, but he led his team. Hal is a good man, but when I heard that, coupled with some of his comments about players not wanting it enough, I am really questioning his leadership skills. (not to mention his play calling).
They scheduled the pep rally during nappy time :eek:
dragonpants
12-05-2008, 06:30 AM
Ok. I gotcha on the North Shore game.. That makes sense. And it would makes sense, based on what you said, to make have it at a neutral site.
Yea, as far as where it's played, I will be there regardless of location. Odd that it's to far to drive from Southlake to Hebron for some, and I drive from Sherman to where ever were at to see them play, as was the case for Hebron and P. West at SMU.
I agree that if it's closer we may get more Carroll fans to attend the game, though at that time of year it's gonna be hot, pretty much all across the state.
I think that Halloween had more to do with the poor turnout than the distance to Hebron. The City of Southlake should have been smarter and scheduled trick and treating on Thursday night.
Hebron did not have a great turnout that night either.
dragonpants
12-05-2008, 06:32 AM
I think the RB positions will be really great next year. Also the QB's and WR's
It think the RB's and WR's are the biggest question marks.
I think we know who they will be but how well will they perform.
SLC13
12-05-2008, 09:17 AM
The Bellaire game will be at Dragon Stadium next season, if it takes place. I am not so sure that the North Shore game will take place in Galena Park either. When the games were cancelled this season, I would assume, although I have not checked, that the remaining contract was essentially voided. Now that does not mean that such games might not take place. But the Bellaire games was already scheduled to be played in Dragon Stadium in 2009. I would find it more likely that if the North Shore game were to take place, that it would be at a neutral site such as Waco ISD rather than at their place.
If the contract is voided, I'd like to see us cancel the Northshore game for next year and fill the opening with a trip down to Cinco Ranch. We owe them big time for helping us out this past season!!
We can do a new home and home contract w/North Shore in 2010-11.
crunked9
12-05-2008, 09:52 AM
So you dont think it's good for conditioning?
It is good for conditioning! It's just dumb! Once running was a requirement and not for fun, i hated it!
I think the RB positions will be really great next year. Also the QB's and WR's
Yea.. For me the biggest questions are the WR's and the QB's... The WR's just from an experience standpoint and the QB's... well... for obvious reasons.
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