Close games, losses, and self-denial

[Phoenixrising05]

Warning: lengthy thread intended for crazy-serious discussion not the 10-13 year olds who only post to say "your team sucks."

I was thinking about some of SLC's closest wins and losses over the past few years and wondered how often the other team flat out recognizes they were inferior. You know that 52-0 inferior feeling. But when the score is 35-34. We all know scores aren't always indicative of the quality of your opponent. I realized in the last couple years there have been several games I thought by watching it SLC flat out just played terrible and was lucky to pull out the win even though 95% of the time they would kill their opponent. However my question is whether that's b/c i'm very biased or if the opponent thinks the same thing. Judging by posts on forums like this i'm just biased. haha

Examples:

semis 1998 - toughest loss I've experienced: lost in the closing minutes against eventual state champion Stephenville...31-28; I felt like we were evenly matched so very hard to lose: this was reaffirmed the following week when the Jackets overwhemingly annihalted their opponent at state

semis 2001 - stayed with Ennis for the 1st half; Ennis obvoiusly had not turned on the offense (at least to me!) and even at halftime could recongize we would lose; ended up being completely dominated the 2nd half and lost something like 45-17; I was not at all upset as I could acknowledge we played a far superior team.

semis 2002 - beat Lufkin 33-30; although I was obviously happy we won I felt like Lufkin was the better team overall. SLC was very pass-happy and Lufkin's DBs learned quickly that the Zebras would NOT call defen. pass inter which I think completely screwed the Dragons; however the Zebras also had a few questionable calls in SLC's favor in the 2nd. In the end I think Lufkin should have won with amazing speed and agility

state 2002 - beat SV 45-14; not as happy as the Lufkin game because an obvoiusly outclassed opponent.

(and this is where I start to piss people off)

state 2003 - the infamous 1 pt SLC loss to Katy; ate LOTS of crow this weekend - coming off 2 undefeated seasons I was way too overconfident about our abilities...Katy came in with the perfect smash-mouth game plan: eat the clock keep the O off the field and run the ball: on that day I felt Katy was def the better team...they ran dangnear perfect f/ball and SLC played right above mediocre; for once the refs did not try to interfere with the game so no blame there; Tiger's perfect game plan and 2 or 3 other missed plays on SLC's part and the worst game of our kicker's life however = katy win; even though we lost I felt it was to a very respectable opponent who played great football and really forced some great defensive stands: HOWEVER i agree with and quote one of katys own fans "If we played SLC 10 times...they'd probably win 7."

regional 2004 - barely pulled out a 35-30 decision over Abilene; although I felt Abilene was a top 5 team I also thought SLC was clearly the better team..i thought the Dragons shot themselves in the foot with penalites the entire game (especially in the endzone) but that overall we should have won by 21+

state 2004 - as we all know busted a FG in the closing seconds to beat SV 27-24; oh buddy I was happy to have the W but felt awful about how SLC played; I think three of SLC's opponents would have beaten SV (Denton Ryan, Abilene, and Lufkin) def one of the most miserable games i've been to...SLC was way off the entire night; I felt SV had a great defensive game plan but was absolutely no where near the quality of SLC; would have been the worst loss had it occured; I felt like I had seen MUCH better football the year before vs Katy on both sides of the ball.

And 10 hours later I get to my point: do other Dragon fans AT THESE GAMES feel similarly? More importantly what about the Eagle, Panther, Tiger and Ranger fans out there? (Less Ranger fans b/c you hate me now haha)

*in SV defense the whole reason for this thread is because i've traveled with a group of guys from my college equally obsessed with f/ball to SLC's playoff games the last couple years. They are from diff HS across the state and usually agree with me but differ on opinion at last year's state game: they thought although SLC played decent that SV played incredible and was a great team. I resolutely felt SLC played awful and SV was mediocre at best.

Let the lampooning begin!

[Phoenixrising05]

I intentionally omitted several of SLC's other close wins the last few years because I know the opponent has no posters on these forums who could reply. Also before anyone else can say the typical f/ball cliches:

I recognize:
A win is a win and a loss is a loss
Any team that makes it to State is doing something right.
[insert any other generic cliche that doesn't specifically respond to my thread]

[Oldman123]

In the 2003 game katy blew chances to score TD's when they were one the goaline but you failed to mention that.

[nate]

state 2003 - the infamous 1 pt SLC loss to Katy; ate LOTS of crow this weekend - coming off 2 undefeated seasons I was way too overconfident about our abilities...Katy came in with the perfect smash-mouth game plan: eat the clock keep the O off the field and run the ball: on that day I felt Katy was def the better team...they ran dangnear perfect f/ball and SLC played right above mediocre; for once the refs did not try to interfere with the game so no blame there; Tiger's perfect game plan and 2 or 3 other missed plays on SLC's part and the worst game of our kicker's life however = katy win; even though we lost I felt it was to a very respectable opponent who played great football and really forced some great defensive stands: HOWEVER i agree with and quote one of katys own fans "If we played SLC 10 times...they'd probably win 7."

I firmly believe Katy 2003 beats SLC 2003 anytime, anywhere. SLC has not faced a defense like that since, and still has no answer for an offense that can push the Dragon defense around for 4 quarters. I've heard every SLC excuse and more, and I'm still not buying it. SLC played the best game they could play against an opponent that was just better than they were. That game is a "how-to" example on beating SLC. Few teams have the secondary and defensive gameplan to matchup with the Dragon offense - Katy was just better that year. It comes down to the physicality of Katy and their ability to matchup against the numerous weapons SLC lines up every game.

[Oldman123]

Nate is exactly right!

[SLC fan]

That definitely wasn't the best SLC's offense could have played. That said, Katy should have scored more points than they did, and if they played again, probably would.

I felt that Katy was a slightly better team that year. In no way, shape, or form were they vastly superior, as you seem to suggest.

[nate]

I felt that Katy was a slightly better team that year. In no way, shape, or form were they vastly superior, as you seem to suggest.

You don't have to be vastly superior to be the better team.

[Phoenixrising05]

I firmly believe Katy 2003 beats SLC 2003 anytime, anywhere. SLC has not faced a defense like that since, and still has no answer for an offense that can push the Dragon defense around for 4 quarters. I've heard every SLC excuse and more, and I'm still not buying it. SLC played the best game they could play against an opponent that was just better than they were. That game is a "how-to" example on beating SLC. Few teams have the secondary and defensive gameplan to matchup with the Dragon offense - Katy was just better that year. It comes down to the physicality of Katy and their ability to matchup against the numerous weapons SLC lines up every game.

Although we disagree I appreciate you not answering defensively. I have absolute respect for Katy and think you make some good points regarding their "phsyicality" as you call it.

[SLC fan]

Your point? I already stated that I thought Katy was better. I'm simply disgreeing with your suggestion that they were far and away a better team. Or did I misinterpret you?

[drgnbkr]

I came home from the 03 game with Katy as stunned as the rest of the Carroll fans..we did'nt expect it, but we tried to leave with some dignity..enjoyed the stay in SA and went home..I watched the game on video and can honestly say that as opposed to how I felt when we made that long drive back to Southlake, Carroll definately should have won that game..this is not excuses.. Hartley does not ever miss that kick and Daniel never, ever, looks like Quincey Carter..but they both uncharacteristically did..Katy is due all props..they won, Carroll lost, Mouton made the catch..it's over, but the right team did'nt win...IMO

[nate]

I came home from the 03 game with Katy as stunned as the rest of the Carroll fans..we did'nt expect it, but we tried to leave with some dignity..enjoyed the stay in SA and went home..I watched the game on video and can honestly say that as opposed to how I felt when we made that long drive back to Southlake, Carroll definately should have won that game..this is not excuses.. Hartley does not ever miss that kick and Daniel never, ever, looks like Quincey Carter..but they both uncharacteristically did..Katy is due all props..they won, Carroll lost, Mouton made the catch..it's over, but the right team did'nt win...IMO

Its just like you to go and say that. You're still in denial.

Hartley missed because it was a tough game and he'd never felt pressure like that. Great players make that FG. Chase Daniel looked like Quincy because he had never faced a secondary or defense as good as Katy's was that day.

Keep the excuses coming, the trophy is in the case of its rightful owner.

[drgnbkr]

Its just like you to go and say that. You're still in denial.

Hartley missed because it was a tough game and he'd never felt pressure like that. Great players make that FG. Chase Daniel looked like Quincy because he had never faced a secondary or defense as good as Katy's was that day.

Keep the excuses coming, the trophy is in the case of its rightful owner.

Like I said in my post..no excuses...just the facts....

[dragonfootballfan]

Like I said in my post..no excuses...just the facts....
those were excuses. The only fact is Katy won and Carroll lost. "The right team did not win" is an opinion which you stated. It also happens to be the conclusion to an excuse-filled post

[drgnbkr]

Is this a great board or what? We all get to have opinions! Imagine trying to do that in Baghdad!

[dragonfootballfan]

Is this a great board or what? We all get to have opinions! Imagine trying to do that in Baghdad!
yup and we can argue in any direction that we want. Even if it is against Trinity or Smithson Valley fans.

[nate]

This is a great board. Now that is a fact!

[drgnbkr]

those were excuses. The only fact is Katy won and Carroll lost. "The right team did not win" is an opinion which you stated. It also happens to be the conclusion to an excuse-filled post

I drove to San Antonio, ate great Mexican food, did the river walk..saw the game..made that miserable drive home..& by God, I get to have an opinion"!

[Garland02]

I enjoyed this thread. This game was outstanding to watch! I have to agree with Nate, as good as I thought SLC was that year, Katy executed the perfect game plan, and had a good enough secondary to get the job done. They matched up well with SLC.

That being said, they didn't match up well against Lufkin that same year... So many of the great games we have discussed on this site the last several years, came down to 1 or 2 plays, and then all we remember is the final score. Lufkin vs SLC game 1, I never thought SLC would come back and win that game. SLC against Monty a couple of years ago, anyone remember the contraversial pass interference call in that game? SLC vs Abilene or SV last year, or even the Lufkin game down in Waco. One of SLC's best traits is that when they had those close games that came down to 1 or 2 plays at the end, they have made them, except for the Katy game.

[drgnbkr]

I enjoyed this thread. This game was outstanding to watch! I have to agree with Nate, as good as I thought SLC was that year, Katy executed the perfect game plan, and had a good enough secondary to get the job done. They matched up well with SLC.

That being said, they didn't match up well against Lufkin that same year... So many of the great games we have discussed on this site the last several years, came down to 1 or 2 plays, and then all we remember is the final score. Lufkin vs SLC game 1, I never thought SLC would come back and win that game. SLC against Monty a couple of years ago, anyone remember the contraversial pass interference call in that game? SLC vs Abilene or SV last year, or even the Lufkin game down in Waco. One of SLC's best traits is that when they had those close games that came down to 1 or 2 plays at the end, they have made them, except for the Katy game.

Hey..we want to win them all......we are pretty dang spoiled....but it's fun talking about it!

[dragons08]

semis 2004 - SLC 30 Lufkin 37; didnt see it can't comment

state 2004
may want to edit that..

[KatyHighCO04]

Of course your offense isn't going to play its best when you play a top-flight defense, it's common sense. And Katy pushed your defense all over the field, the better team did win as the final score showed. SLC still has yet to play a team with the smashmouth offense and stiffling defense combination since that day, and that's about the only way that anyone can beat SLC. Yeah Katy might not of had better skill players everywhere, but they did what the coaches told them they had to do to win and executed that gameplan perfectly. SLC had no answer to Aston and Mouton was willing to do whatever he wanted for the team that day and it showed. Thankfully Will got that Int and then Aston got the first down to seal the deal or who knows what might have happened.

And just for grins lets count your excuses in the post about that game:
1)I was way too overconfident about our abilities
2)SLC played right above mediocre
3)2 or 3 other missed plays on SLC's part and the worst game of our kicker's life however = katy win;
Not really 4, but more a way to trick yourself into thinking it was a fluke: HOWEVER i agree with and quote one of katys own fans "If we played SLC 10 times...they'd probably win 7."

[singularity]

Warning: lengthy thread intended for crazy-serious discussion not the 10-13 year olds who only post to say "your team sucks."

I was thinking about some of SLC's closest wins and losses over the past few years and wondered how often the other team flat out recognizes they were inferior. You know that 52-0 inferior feeling. But when the score is 35-34. We all know scores aren't always indicative of the quality of your opponent. I realized in the last couple years there have been several games I thought by watching it SLC flat out just played terrible and was lucky to pull out the win even though 95% of the time they would kill their opponent. However my question is whether that's b/c i'm very biased or if the opponent thinks the same thing. Judging by posts on forums like this i'm just biased. haha

Examples:

semis 1998 - toughest loss I've experienced: lost in the closing minutes against eventual state champion Stephenville...31-28; I felt like we were evenly matched so very hard to lose: this was reaffirmed the following week when the Jackets overwhemingly annihalted their opponent at state

semis 2001 - stayed with Ennis for the 1st half; Ennis obvoiusly had not turned on the offense (at least to me!) and even at halftime could recongize we would lose; ended up being completely dominated the 2nd half and lost something like 45-17; I was not at all upset as I could acknowledge we played a far superior team.

semis 2002 - beat Lufkin 33-30; although I was obviously happy we won I felt like Lufkin was the better team overall. SLC was very pass-happy and Lufkin's DBs learned quickly that the Zebras would NOT call defen. pass inter which I think completely screwed the Dragons; however the Zebras also had a few questionable calls in SLC's favor in the 2nd. In the end I think Lufkin should have won with amazing speed and agility

state 2002 - beat SV 45-14; not as happy as the Lufkin game because an obvoiusly outclassed opponent.

(and this is where I start to piss people off)

state 2003 - the infamous 1 pt SLC loss to Katy; ate LOTS of crow this weekend - coming off 2 undefeated seasons I was way too overconfident about our abilities...Katy came in with the perfect smash-mouth game plan: eat the clock keep the O off the field and run the ball: on that day I felt Katy was def the better team...they ran dangnear perfect f/ball and SLC played right above mediocre; for once the refs did not try to interfere with the game so no blame there; Tiger's perfect game plan and 2 or 3 other missed plays on SLC's part and the worst game of our kicker's life however = katy win; even though we lost I felt it was to a very respectable opponent who played great football and really forced some great defensive stands: HOWEVER i agree with and quote one of katys own fans "If we played SLC 10 times...they'd probably win 7."

regional 2004 - barely pulled out a 35-30 decision over Abilene; although I felt Abilene was a top 5 team I also thought SLC was clearly the better team..i thought the Dragons shot themselves in the foot with penalites the entire game (especially in the endzone) but that overall we should have won by 21+

semis 2004 - SLC 30 Lufkin 37; didnt see it can't comment

state 2004 - as we all know busted a FG in the closing seconds to beat SV 27-24; oh buddy I was happy to have the W but felt awful about how SLC played; I think three of SLC's opponents would have beaten SV (Denton Ryan, Abilene, and Lufkin) def one of the most miserable games i've been to...SLC was way off the entire night; I felt SV had a great defensive game plan but was absolutely no where near the quality of SLC; would have been the worst loss had it occured; I felt like I had seen MUCH better football the year before vs Katy on both sides of the ball.

And 10 hours later I get to my point: do other Dragon fans AT THESE GAMES feel similarly? More importantly what about the Eagle, Panther, Tiger and Ranger fans out there? (Less Ranger fans b/c you hate me now haha)

*in SV defense the whole reason for this thread is because i've traveled with a group of guys from my college equally obsessed with f/ball to SLC's playoff games the last couple years. They are from diff HS across the state and usually agree with me but differ on opinion at last year's state game: they thought although SLC played decent that SV played incredible and was a great team. I resolutely felt SLC played awful and SV was mediocre at best.

Let the lampooning begin!
I will have to agree with your buddies. There is no doubt in my mind: State 2004 SV-Better coaching, lesser players....SLC-Better players, lesser coaching

I do believe that it was a perfect game for SV on the coaching end. If SLC did have a bad game, I still think that the majority of their players were better than SVs.

I am not going to say that SLC wasn't the better team. They definitly were. My issue is that SV brought it when it was needed, whereas SLC didn't. I firmly believe the win on SLCs part was weighed heavily on offensive talent.

[Oldman123]

No one will ever give 03 katy credit not even our own fans. They couldnt do this or that, when they were freshman, the coaches were like whoa, whats wrong with this group. We proved EVERYBODY wrong, but still no love.

[Sicemhorns09]

I honestly believe that in 2003 that either The Woodlands or North Shore teams would have been able to win the DII title... both of those teams were ranked in the national top 10 and were loaded with talent... North Shore would have blown either team out... and The Woodlands had enough fire power to stop SLC or Katy... all in my opinion!!

[Owned05]

"But the right team didn't win."

Is anyone else bothered by this friggin' comment? How can you say the "right team" didn't win? Explain..without excuses.

Katy made that team look mediocre. Period. We put on a clinic on how to stop the Dragons. We ran that game plan to perfection. Control the clock, shove James Aston and the hawgs right down your throat, play bend but don't break defense, and make plays on special teams.

The team that made few mistakes and executed won that game. Face it, man..Katy was the better team and to not give the Tigers credit is an insult not only to the 2003 state champion Tigers but to the Katy coaches and program.

[TrojanFan4Life]

"But the right team didn't win."

Is anyone else bothered by this friggin' comment? How can you say the "right team" didn't win? Explain..without excuses.

Katy made that team look mediocre. Period. We put on a clinic on how to stop the Dragons. We ran that game plan to perfection. Control the clock, shove James Aston and the hawgs right down your throat, play bend but don't break defense, and make plays on special teams.

The team that made few mistakes and executed won that game. Face it, man..Katy was the better team and to not give the Tigers credit is an insult not only to the 2003 state champion Tigers but to the Katy coaches and program.



WOW what a game it was - we were rooting for Katy all the way - just like last year we were cheering for SV - Katy made SLC look mediocre! Other teams should watch that film and watch how it is done!

But I know the SLC fans will come back and say that watching their team on TV doesn't count because it isn't the same as watching them in person.

I guess that is why NFL prices are sooo expensive - the fans in the stadium get to watch a much better game than those of us who stay home and watch the game on TV!

[drgnbkr]

WOW what a game it was - we were rooting for Katy all the way - just like last year we were cheering for SV - Katy made SLC look mediocre! Other teams should watch that film and watch how it is done!
But I know the SLC fans will come back and say that watching their team on TV doesn't count because it isn't the same as watching them in person.

I guess that is why NFL prices are sooo expensive - the fans in the stadium get to watch a much better game than those of us who stay home and watch the game on TV!

58 have tried...1 has succeeded..It's only natural that all of you pull for whoever is playing Carroll. We were the first to give Katy the credit they deserved, great kids, great fans & great coaches..we all get to have opinions about would'ves & should'ves (sp)..I enjoy talking about it still..it was a lot of fun & the Dragons got back where they belong last year...

[SuperBuffs]

As Far As I'm Corecern:

This 2005 Playoff game between Fort Bend Marshall Buffalo Soldiers and Strake Jesuit Crusaders last week is symbolic of this thread:

I posted the video to show how painful and sobering this game can be,

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/millerdigitalmedia@sbcglobal.net

--------------------------------------------------------------
"The Catch".... I will set the scene for you:

The score is FB Marshall Buffalo Soldiers 20 - Strake Jesuit Crusaders 21...

35 seconds left in the game...Crump Stadium, Alief, Texas...a suburban neighborhood in Houston.

FB Marshall's starting QB James Thomas is out of the game hurt, backup Corey Kimble is sent into the game....the ball is on the FBM's 35 yard line...

Kimble drops back, the FBM offensive line is giving him plenty of time to lock and load...

A.J. Ruffins is double covered by Moses Ogbonnaya and Stephen Tyree, the fastest players on Strake's squad....

Kimble lets go of a 70 yard bomb, Crump erupts!, everyone is yelling....Ruffins catches the ball!...OMG! what a catch...TOUCHDOWN!...THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS FANS ARE GOING CRAZY!!!!!

Then the referee signals no TD, Ruffin was tackled on the 1 is his call....20 secs left and FB Marshall eventually misses the field goal...WOW, WHAT A GAME!.

You didn't see it?....I got the video!...click (THECATCH.RAM) for instant playback.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/millerdigitalmedia@sbcglobal.net

a week later and the thread with this video still gets downloads.......

[Owned05]

Hey Buffs...

LET


IT


GO

[SuperBuffs]

Hey Buffs...

LET


IT


GO
I did not start the thread, I simply have video to prove my point....

I

DIDN'T

LOSE,

MY TEAM DID, I HAVE NOTHING TO LET GO.....MY PLAYING DAYS ARE OVER.