Gun Show Anyone?

[KLH75287]

If you're thinking about buying a new gun, you may want to get it before January.

He has said publicly that he supports the 2nd ammendment, but has concerns over some "safety" issues with guns.



http://www.nraila.org/barackobama/barackobama4.htm?gclid=CJ3A7L-xqJYCFQSwFQod0W-Yzw

[pied]

If you're thinking about buying a new gun, you may want to get it before January.

He has said publicly that he supports the 2nd ammendment, but has concerns over some "safety" issues with guns.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/Topics/Barack_Obama.html

Thanks so much for bringing this up. He has also said publicly he is a Christian. You may want to get down to the bookstore and pick up a Bible before it's too late.

You never know....

[KLH75287]

You may want to get down to the bookstore and pick up a Bible before it's too late.

You never know....

??????

[pied]

??????

Come on, you know.

[dragons08]

I got two tickets right here.

*kisses biceps*

[KLH75287]

Come on, you know.

I guess that proves that you can say anything, or claim whatever you want.

I am no way ashamed or silent about my belief in The Bible and the fact that I appreciate the 2nd ammendment.

Were you trying to make a point or insinuate something by bringing the two into the same thread? If so, please feel free.

[pied]

I guess that proves that you can say anything, or claim whatever you want.

I am no way ashamed or silent about my belief in The Bible and the fact that I appreciate the 2nd ammendment.

Were you trying to make a point or insinuate something by bringing the two into the same thread? If so, please feel free.

WWJS(What Would Jesus Shoot)

[KLH75287]

WWJS(What Would Jesus Shoot)

He did sit down and make a whip one time and then ran alot of liars and greedmongers out of the temple. Love that story.

But.... As far as the topic goes, I know it has been a source of hot debate in elections past and BHO has gone public on his support of the 2nd ammendment to avoid ties back to Gore anfd the mistakes he made by being so vocal about his gun control position, but BHO didn't tell the whole truth according to his record when it comes to guns.

-----------------

FactCheck claim: "Obama is proposing no ...ban" on use of firearms for self-defense in the home.

FactCheck is wrong. Obama supported local handgun bans in the Chicago area by opposing any allowance for self-defense. Obama opposed an Illinois bill (SB 2165, 2004) that would have created an "affirmative defense" for a person who used a prohibited firearm in self-defense in his own home.

As FactCheck notes, the bill was provoked by a case where a Wilmette, Ill. homeowner shot an intruder in self-defense in his home; the homeowner's handgun was banned by a town ordinance. (After the U.S. Supreme Court found Washington, D.C.'s similar ban unconstitutional, Wilmette repealed the ordinance to avoid litigation.)

The legislation was very plainly worded, but as limited as its protection was, Obama voted against it in committee and on the floor:

It is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another ...when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business.

If a person cannot use a handgun for self-defense in the home without facing criminal charges, self-defense with handguns in the home is effectively banned.

Even aside from SB 2165, Obama's support for a total handgun ban (see below) would be a crippling blow to defense in the home, since (as the Supreme Court recently affirmed) handguns are "the most preferred firearm in the nation to 'keep' and use for protection of one's home and family." (District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783, 2818 (2008)).

FactCheck claim: Obama "did not ...vote to 'ban virtually all deer hunting ammunition."

FactCheck is wrong. Obama voted for an amendment by longtime ammunition ban advocate Sen. Edward Kennedy (S. Amdt. 1615 to S. 397, Vote No. 217, July 29, 2005), which would have fundamentally changed the federal "armor piercing ammunition" law (18 U.S.C. ' 922(a)(7)), by banning any bullet that "may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines... to be capable of penetrating body armor" that "meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers."

Federal law currently bans bullets as "armor piercing" based upon the metals used in their construction, such as those made of steel and those that have heavy jackets. (18 U.S.C. ' 921(a)(17)). The Kennedy amendment would have fundamentally changed the law to add a ban on bullets on the basis of whether they penetrate the "minimum" level of body armor, regardless of the bullets' construction or the purposes for which they were designed (e.g., hunting).

Many bullets designed and intended for use in rifles (including hunting rifles) have, over the years, been used in special-purpose hunting and target handguns, thus they "may be used in a handgun."

The "minimum" level of body armor, Type I, only protects against the lowest-powered handgun cartridges. Any center-fire rifle used for hunting, target shooting, or any other purpose, and many handguns used for the same purposes, are capable of penetrating Type I armor, regardless of the design of the bullet.

Obama also said, on his 2003 questionnaire for the Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization, that he would "support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons." (source) The rifles banned as "assault weapons" under the 1994 Clinton gun ban fire cartridges such as the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester - the same ammunition used in common hunting rifles.

It's true that in 2005, Sen. Kennedy denied his amendment would ban hunting ammunition. But in a floor debate on an identical amendment the previous year, Kennedy specifically denounced the .30-30 Winchester rifle cartridge, used by millions of deer hunters since 1895. "It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America," said Sen. Kennedy. (Congressional Record, 2/26/04, p. S1634.)

Isn't it FactCheck's job to be skeptical of politicians' claims, especially when the plain language says otherwise?

FactCheck claim: "Obama says he does not support any ... handgun ban and never has."

FactCheck is wrong. Obama has never disavowed his support for a handgun ban. On Obama's 1996 questionnaire for the Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization, he clearly stated his support for "state legislation to ...ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." Although Obama first claimed he had not seen the survey, a later version appeared with his handwritten notes modifying some of the answers. But he didn't change any of his answers on gun issues, including the handgun ban.

FactCheck itself cites Obama's 2003 questionnaire to the same group. When asked again if he supported a handgun ban, he could simply have said, "No." Instead, as FactCheck notes, he "avoid[ed] a yes-or-no answer" by saying a ban on handguns "is not politically practicable," then stated his support for other restrictions.

The 1996 and 2003 positions are not at all contradictory. Many anti-gun groups, such as the Violence Policy Center and Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, support total bans on handguns but also support lesser regulations that are more "politically practicable."

FactCheck claim: Saying Obama supports gun licensing is "misleading."

FactCheck is wrong. Obama's fancy election-year footwork - claiming he doesn't support licensing or registration because he doesn't think he "can get that done" - isn't enough to get around his clear support for handgun registration and licensing.

What's really misleading is the idea that handgun registration isn't really gun registration. Handguns are about one-third of the firearms owned in the United States, and American gun owners know better than to think registration schemes will end with any one kind of gun.

FactCheck claim: Saying Obama would appoint judges who agree with him is "unsupported."

This FactCheck claim is just strange. Don't most Americans expect that the President will appoint people who agree with him to all levels of the government? And putting all Obama's campaign rhetoric about "empathy" aside, why would judges be any different?

And on the larger issue of Obama's view of the Second Amendment, FactCheck once again takes Obama's spin at face value. While Obama now claims to embrace the Supreme Court's decision striking down the D.C. gun ban, he refused to sign an amicus brief stating that position to the Court. And when Washington, D.C. television reporter Leon Harris said to Obama, "You support the D.C. handgun ban and you've said that it's constitutional," Obama nodded - and again didn't disavow his support. (WJLA TV interview, 2/11/2008.)

[slorch]

I got two tickets right here.

*kisses biceps*

let me guess, you're sitting in the nosebleeds?

[SaRattlerFan]

Thanks so much for bringing this up. He has also said publicly he is a Christian. You may want to get down to the bookstore and pick up a Bible before it's too late.

You never know....

Are you still undecided because you're becoming more defensive for Obama every day.

Next you'll be telling us we Like "hanging on to our guns and religion" too much.

[pied]

Are you still undecided because you're becoming more defensive for Obama every day.

Next you'll be telling us we Like "hanging on to our guns and religion" too much.

Probably because the attacks are becoming more and more repetitive and more dumb.

Like I said a month or so ago, the reason I was leaning away from McCain had less to do with specific policy and the more general direction of the what seems to be a growing section of the supporters of the Republican party.

Again, we seem more interested in dividing as a nation, than uniting.

Yes I am still undecided and am eagerly awaiting the debate. I ma on the road at the moment and likely will not be able to see it live(6PM local) and may have to wait until I get home later this week.

[Miss Kitty]

Probably because the attacks are becoming more and more repetitive and more dumb.

Like I said a month or so ago, the reason I was leaning away from McCain had less to do with specific policy and the more general direction of the what seems to be a growing section of the supporters of the Republican party.

Again, we seem more interested in dividing as a nation, than uniting.

Yes I am still undecided and am eagerly awaiting the debate. I ma on the road at the moment and likely will not be able to see it live(6PM local) and may have to wait until I get home later this week.

IMO, it is best NOT to watch it live. I record them and then I watch them a little at a time. This way, when my mind begins to shut due to emotion over some stupid comment, I can shut it off and come back when I am ready to listen and be more objective. Also, it allows you to process the important issues and speed past the BS. Sometime there is so much in these debates, it is hard to absorb it all and often the imporant points are missed.

[Miss Kitty]

Oh and for the record. I have both, guns and bibles. So my plan is to shoot them in the knees with the gun and beat them over the head with the bible. :)

[KatySwarm]

No one is taking away your freakin' guns. :rolleyes:

[Warbird]

Probably because the attacks are becoming more and more repetitive and more dumb.

And Obama's defenses with regards to his relations have devolved into something resembling outright lies, i.e. ACORN, etc.



Again, we seem more interested in dividing as a nation, than uniting.


You want to be united under a filibuster-proof Congress and a closet-socialist president?

[SaRattlerFan]

No one is taking away your freakin' guns. :rolleyes:
Really:

"No major-party presidential nominee has ever had as strong and consistent an anti-gun record as Obama. Here is a politician who supported a ban on handguns in 1996, backed a ban on the sale of all semiautomatic guns in 1998 (which would encompass most guns sold in the country), and advocated banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park in 2004 (a virtual ban on all gun stores). He also served on the board of the Joyce Foundation, the largest private funder of anti-gun research in the country."

Conservatives get a little nervous when a candidate starts talking about taking away guns. It's like a liberal when you talk about taking away welfare checks.

[KatySwarm]

Really:

"No major-party presidential nominee has ever had as strong and consistent an anti-gun record as Obama. Here is a politician who supported a ban on handguns in 1996, backed a ban on the sale of all semiautomatic guns in 1998 (which would encompass most guns sold in the country), and advocated banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park in 2004 (a virtual ban on all gun stores). He also served on the board of the Joyce Foundation, the largest private funder of anti-gun research in the country."

Conservatives get a little nervous when a candidate starts talking about taking away guns. It's like a liberal when you talk about taking away welfare checks.

Nope. They're not going anywhere.

[dada]

Dang it...another political thread....thought I was about to have some good ol gun talk.....you guys SUCK!

[KatySwarm]

Dang it...another political thread....thought I was about to have some good ol gun talk.....you guys SUCK!

Yeah. No one is taking your guns.

[Firebird]

And Obama's defenses with regards to his relations have devolved into something resembling outright lies, i.e. ACORN, etc.





You want to be united under a filibuster-proof Congress and a closet-socialist president?

My how times have changed....I remember not too long ago the Republicans attempting to put in place a filibuster ban. Now all of a sudden a filibuster proof Congress is a symbol of the coming oppression.

[HUM398]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/juice/images/2007/11/07/snipes.jpg

Dada, you are not a strawberry blond.

[dada]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/juice/images/2007/11/07/snipes.jpg

Dada, you are not a strawberry blond.

You like the "Honey Blonde" better? LOL

[HUM398]

You like the "Honey Blonde" better? LOL

It brings out the cheek bones...

[the_phoenix612]

My how times have changed....I remember not too long ago the Republicans attempting to put in place a filibuster ban. Now all of a sudden a filibuster proof Congress is a symbol of the coming oppression.

shhhhhhhhhhhhh.