Barrack Obama: The real question you should ask yourself about him.

[GoOwls]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......

.....but this is the real question you should ask.....

Is Obama the moderate change agent he positions himself to be, or is he a man who, by his associations, subscribes to an arguably Marxist outlook of the dismantling of our democracy/republic?

This is not from the point of who Obama likes, but WHO LIKES HIM AND WHY.

Bill Ayers and Acorn represent a far left view of America......they love Obama....WHY?

Hugo Chavez...the America Hater....loves Obama.....WHY?

The leadership of Iran....openly anti-American...loves Obama.....WHY?

Hammas and their leadership....the violent terrorist organization.....loves Obama.....WHY?

I could go on and on.......

WHY DO PEOPLE, TERRORISTS, AND COUNTRIES THAT HATE AMERICA LOVE BARRACK OBAMA?

So let's just forget about who Obama likes and focus on why certain people like him...it sheds a bit of illumination as to why some people dont' trust him with our country....not that I trust McCain with it either.....but I have real concerns about a guy with so many people who hate America loving him so much.

If they like him...could it be they think their almost Marxist ideologies will be more closely represented by him than we know about....

Just maybe they know something about the man that we don't....and that is what scares me to death....:(

JMHO

[pied]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......


I disagree with your whole premise. This stuff is EXACTLY what has been discussed.

Threads:

Better learn the Koran
This is my country-Pledge of allegiance
He won't wear a flag pin
His plane doesn't have a flag
He is a terrorist

You could have included this thread on any of those. Why a new one?

[Alurista]

A polarizing figure the likes which we have'nt had since Abe Lincoln. Whats that in the air......smells like Civil War to me. We need to get rid of closet racists like you Mr. Owl.

[pack75]

Easy answer: most of the people you mentioned hate George W. Bush and his policies, so therefore they don't like America (under the Bush admin.) and probably would hate us even more if Bush Jr. (McCain) became the next POTUS.

Look at Bush's approval rating...more than half of Americans don't even approve of the guy.

[J-Rock Mom]

I agree with GoOwls, why is it that a man that is wanting to be president is unable to get a low level security clearance? My opionion is I just don't trust the man!!!

And I am far from being a racist!

[SaRattlerFan]

A polarizing figure the likes which we have'nt had since Abe Lincoln. Whats that in the air......smells like Civil War to me. We need to get rid of closet racists like you Mr. Owl.

Here we go again, if you're not for Obama, you must be racist.:rolleyes:

Are Americans duty bound to vote for Obama to prove we aren't racist? What a crock of sh...........!

[GoOwls]

I disagree with your whole premise. This stuff is EXACTLY what has been discussed.

Threads:

Better learn the Koran
This is my country-Pledge of allegiance
He won't wear a flag pin
His plane doesn't have a flag
He is a terrorist

You could have included this thread on any of those. Why a new one?

Leave the leftist psycho-babble out of this......I took many disjointed points of view and made it into a concise topic....it's my gift :D.....is it too focused for you guys on the left to understand?

Answer the specific question....why do people who hate America love Barrack Obama?

I'm waiting for something that resembles an answer from Obama supporters.....(taps foot on floor)

[GoOwls]

Easy answer: most of the people you mentioned hate George W. Bush and his policies, so therefore they don't like America (under the Bush admin.) and probably would hate us even more if Bush Jr. (McCain) became the next POTUS.

Look at Bush's approval rating...more than half of Americans don't even approve of the guy.

Answer the question....your response is rhetoric.....try again.

[GoOwls]

A polarizing figure the likes which we have'nt had since Abe Lincoln. Whats that in the air......smells like Civil War to me. We need to get rid of closet racists like you Mr. Owl.

Turn it back on me......nice....but rhetoric....try again.

[pack75]

Leave the leftist psycho-babble out of this......I took many disjointed points of view and made it into a concise topic....it's my gift :D.....is it too focused for you guys on the left to understand?

Answer the specific question....why do people who hate America love Barrack Obama?

I'm waiting for something that resembles an answer from Obama supporters.....(taps foot on floor)

GoOwls, did you not read the answer?

KT go ahead and lock this thread...the "real question" has been answered.

[pied]

Here we go again, if you're not for Obama, you must be racist.:rolleyes:

Are Americans duty bound to vote for Obama to prove we aren't racist? What a crock of sh...........!


I agree, you are not a racist if you do not vote for Obama. If you rely on sterotypes for forming your decisions, you may want to rethink that stance, but certainly it is a crock to make that correlation.

I agree with GoOwls, why is it that a man that is wanting to be president is unable to get a low level security clearance? My opionion is I just don't trust the man!!!

And I am far from being a racist!

Is that a fact? I have not seen anything that shows this.

Thanks in advance.

[GoOwls]

GoOwls, did you not read the answer?

KT go ahead and lock this thread...the "real question" has been answered.

Great....you can't answer my simple question so you run to the KT's to save you...to shut me down....the left has had it's day on this board and now I'm asking the tough question....I'd like it answered....and if this gets shut down...it'll tell me a whole lot about the state of things here.

Now...no rhetoric....answer it or move on.....try again.

[GoOwls]

I agree, you are not a racist if you do not vote for Obama. If you rely on sterotypes for forming your decisions, you may want to rethink that stance, but certainly it is a crock to make that correlation.



Is that a fact? I have not seen anything that shows this.

Thanks in advance.

Stay on topic.....try again.

[pack75]

Answer the question....your response is rhetoric.....try again.

Oh I'm sorry my answer actually made since to you. Let me give you the answer you want to hear:

"OMG! You're right GoOwls, I see it now, Obama is a terrorist, please don't vote for him...please! Thank you so much Mr. Owl for making this clear to us all!"

[pied]

Leave the leftist psycho-babble out of this......I took many disjointed points of view and made it into a concise topic....it's my gift :D.....is it too focused for you guys on the left to understand?

Answer the specific question....why do people who hate America love Barrack Obama?

I'm waiting for something that resembles an answer from Obama supporters.....(taps foot on floor)


Not certain they do. If so, I don't think there are probably more than one or two reasons. In fact you could probably make the case that some do love America, but don't like certain aspects of it.

[pack75]

Great....you can't answer my simple question so you run to the KT's to save you...to shut me down....the left has had it's day on this board and now I'm asking the tough question....I'd like it answered....and if this gets shut down...it'll tell me a whole lot about the state of things here.

Now...no rhetoric....answer it or move on.....try again.

You and I know good and well this thread will not be locked up because I said so.:rolleyes:

[JMSFan]

I agree, you are not a racist if you do not vote for Obama. If you rely on sterotypes for forming your decisions, you may want to rethink that stance, but certainly it is a crock to make that correlation.



Is that a fact? I have not seen anything that shows this.
Thanks in advance.

This is not a picture of a sleeping cat. I did not post this.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s134/p-nut_015/sleepingcat.jpg

Just because I said it didnt happen doesnt mean its not real.

[GoOwls]

Oh I'm sorry my answer actually made since to you. Let me give you the answer you want to hear:

"OMG! You're right GoOwls, I see it now, Obama is a terrorist, please don't vote for him...please! Thank you so much Mr. Owl for making this clear to us all!"

Just as I thought....you have nothing to back up your support of him when faced with my querry.....move on.

BTW....I said to focus on his far left supporters and their motivations, not Barrack....I don't think Barrack is a terrorist.....I wonder why terrorists support him.....;)

[Firebird]

This is not a picture of a sleeping cat. I did not post this.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s134/p-nut_015/sleepingcat.jpg

Just because I said it didnt happen doesnt mean its not real.

The burden is on the person making the claim. This is the 2nd time I've heard this claim, with no supporting evidence.

[GoOwls]

Not certain they do. If so, I don't think there are probably more than one or two reasons. In fact you could probably make the case that some do love America, but don't like certain aspects of it.

:rolleyes: please..........try again.

[yallerjacket]

The burden is on the person making the claim. This is the 2nd time I've heard this claim, with no supporting evidence.

You haven't seen the e-mail? It's all in there.

[GoOwls]

Not certain they do. If so, I don't think there are probably more than one or two reasons. In fact you could probably make the case that some do love America, but don't like certain aspects of it.

Please...I gave four clear, documented examples of people or organizations who hate America who love Obama...focus on why they would support him....in fact openly love him.

[Firebird]

Please...I gave four clear, documented examples of people or organizations who hate America who love Obama...focus on why they would support him....in fact openly love him.

Can you show me some evidence that Chavez and the Iranian leadership love him, beyond your assertation? I know that guy from Hamas "endorsed" him.

[GoOwls]

You haven't seen the e-mail? It's all in there.


Not email sir.....well documented statements......try again.

No...I'm not going to link them....I'm too lazy...you find them....;)

[dada]

Please...I gave four clear, documented examples of people or organizations who hate America who love Obama...focus on why they would support him....in fact openly love him.

If I went around kicking midgets and taking their money because I had a thing against Midgets....and then, let's say KT2000 came along and said he wouldn't kick midgets and rob them........WHY would they support KT2000?:D

[SaRattlerFan]

A polarizing figure the likes which we have'nt had since Abe Lincoln. Whats that in the air......smells like Civil War to me. We need to get rid of closet racists like you Mr. Owl.

One more follow up on this post.

I have talked to several African Americans (I'm sure there are many more) who have told me they are voting for Obama for one reason - because he's black.

Does that make them racist for choosing to vote for the man because of the color of his skin? If not, why doesn't it work both ways?

[Firebird]

Not email sir.....well documented statements......try again.

No...I'm not going to link them....I'm too lazy...you find them....;)

No, tell us what Chavez and Iranians have said about Obama. You are the one making the claim.

[GoOwls]

If I went around kicking midgets and taking their money because I had a thing against Midgets....and then, let's say KT2000 came along and said he wouldn't kick midgets and rob them........WHY would they support KT2000?:D

But KT2000 isn't a midget, and midgets hate everything that KT stands for....as far as we know.....;) :D

[JMSFan]

One more follow up on this post.

I have talked to several African Americans (I'm sure there are many more) who have told me they are voting for Obama for one reason - because he's black.

Does that make them racist for choosing to vote for the man because of the color of his skin? If not, why doesn't it work both ways?

I've had the same experience. If you call them out on this, most of the time the response is..... " but... but .... but...."

[dada]

One more follow up on this post.

I have talked to several African Americans (I'm sure there are many more) who have told me they are voting for Obama for one reason - because he's black.

Does that make them racist for choosing to vote for the man because of the color of his skin? If not, why doesn't it work both ways?

if that's what people want to beleive...then so be it. To me that is sort of an insult saying "Blacks know NOTHING about politics....they are just voting for the black guy'.....I know SEVERAL Blacks who are McCain supporters and SEVERAL whites that support Obama....Dang...give us Blackies SOME credit Sir.

[JMSFan]

If I went around kicking midgets and taking their money because I had a thing against Midgets....and then, let's say KT2000 came along and said he wouldn't kick midgets and rob them........WHY would they support KT2000?:D

If you went around kicking midgets, you would be my hero.

[dada]

I've had the same experience. If you call them out on this, most of the time the response is..... " but... but .... but...."

For every person voting FOR Obama because he's black....their is two people voting against him because he's black....


I promised to stay away from political threads.....so back to bashing OU I go....

[GoOwls]

No, tell us what Chavez and Iranians have said about Obama. You are the one making the claim.

I've seen the videos and read the quotes over the campaign season....I have a pretty nice memory...if you have info to the contrary of mine, I'm open to reading it....please find me the quotes of Chavez saying he hates Obama...please....enlighten me....try again.

[GoOwls]

COME ON GUYS AND GALS....KEEP THIS ON TOPIC

[Firebird]

I've seen the videos and read the quotes over the campaign season....I have a pretty nice memory...if you have info to the contrary of mine, I'm open to reading it....please find me the quotes of Chavez saying he hates Obama...please....enlighten me....try again.

You said Chavez said he loves Obama, not that he never said he didn't hate him. Nice try. By the way, Ahmedinijad on the election:

President Mahmoud President Ahmadinejad says the White House hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are unlikely to win the US presidential election. "We don't interfere in the other countries' affairs but we think that the American nation seek profound changes in their country," the Iranian president said in a press conference in New Delhi on Tuesday when he was asked about the prospective results of the US presidential campaign.

"Do you think a black candidate would be allowed to be the president in the US? We don't think Mr. Obama will be allowed to become the US president," Mehr news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying. Pointing to Clinton's chance of winning the presidential election, he said, "Presidency of a woman in a country that boasts its gunmanship is unlikely."

"I think the US presidential campaign is being steered towards a determined direction," Ahmadinejad argued.

However, the Iranian president stated, "It will make no difference to us who will be the next US president…whatever happens the US is not like the past and its power is on decline."

[Firebird]

COME ON GUYS AND GALS....KEEP THIS ON TOPIC

This thread has to go off topic because the original topic is too stupid to even consider.

[JMSFan]

This thread has to go off topic because the original topic is too stupid to even consider.


Its because DaDa mentioned midgets. They are distracting, to say the least.

[pied]

This thread has to go off topic because the original topic is too stupid to even consider.

I guess we are down to three examples?

Only one documentation of something and it disproves the theory.

[SaRattlerFan]

if that's what people want to beleive...then so be it. To me that is sort of an insult saying "Blacks know NOTHING about politics....they are just voting for the black guy'.....I know SEVERAL Blacks who are McCain supporters and SEVERAL whites that support Obama....Dang...give us Blackies SOME credit Sir.

I didn't say all African Americans have said that to me - I said "several".

[KT2000]

Go Owls, to your original questions, I would first say there's probably not a simple answer.

However, I would say current leaders in these countries would prefer Obama presidency mostly because of his political record. Traditionally, Democrats are less aggressive than their Republican counterparts when it comes to foreign policy. Chavez and Ahmedinejad are way beyond that though. They just want to give us the finger.

Bush is, of course, openly against every one of the people and countries you mentioned above and has engaged in very aggressive diplomacy (and also proxy war, Hamas/Iran). He's constantly kept them on the defensive.

I am sure they are under the the belief that Obama would be considerably less aggressive, at least openly, and would "get out of their hair."

Obama has stated he'd be against an atomic Iran, but his focus seems mostly trained on Pakistan. He's been talking about Pakistan for almost a year now and constantly brings up the fact we should be more aggressive there. Apparently, he wants to build schools there as well. How he plans to do that, I have no idea. Pakistan's public is hugely against any kind of American presence within their borders.

As far as Obama's connections to some of these people are concerned, I would like to know more information as I'm sure many other people would as well. I don't know enough, but I would agree that people are defined by the company they keep.

Personally, I will not be voting for Obama or McCain. I have been very put off by the financial problems in Washington, and the candidates have both hurt themselves in my view. I don't think either one of them are right for this domestic, economy or foreign policy climates.

I will still cast a ballot out of respect to the country itself and those fighting for it overseas.

[Pinion]

For every person voting FOR Obama because he's black....their is two people voting against him because he's black....
I promised to stay away from political threads.....so back to bashing OU I go....

That's not true. Not at all. In fact, that statement is so far from the truth that it's seriously kinda making me sick to my stomach.

[GoOwls]

You said Chavez said he loves Obama, not that he never said he didn't hate him. Nice try. By the way, Ahmedinijad on the election:

He sounded neutral in that particular quote.....certainly not against Obama as I asked for.....try again...answer my original question.

[JMSFan]

That's not true. Not at all. In fact, that statement is so far from the truth that it's seriously kinda making me sick to my stomach.


Agreed.

[GoOwls]

This thread has to go off topic because the original topic is too stupid to even consider.

Please stay on topic....try again.....(GoOwls still taps his foot impatiently on the floor awaiting enlightened answer)

[GoOwls]

I guess we are down to three examples?

Only one documentation of something and it disproves the theory.

HE DISPROVED NOTHING...try again.

[dada]

That's not true. Not at all. In fact, that statement is so far from the truth that it's seriously kinda making me sick to my stomach.

Based on what? The same fact the "Several" blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black? Women voting for Palin because she's a woman? Some men voting for her because she's "Hot"???

When you say "Several"....what exactly does that mean?

[GoOwls]

Go Owls, to your original questions, I would first say there's probably not a simple answer.

However, I would say current leaders in these countries would prefer Obama presidency mostly because of his political record. Traditionally, Democrats are less aggressive than their Republican counterparts when it comes to foreign policy. Chavez and Ahmedinejad are way beyond that though. They just want to give us the finger.

Bush is, of course, openly against every one of the people and countries you mentioned above and has engaged in very aggressive diplomacy (and also proxy war, Hamas/Iran). He's constantly kept them on the defensive.

I am sure they are under the the belief that Obama would be considerably less aggressive, at least openly, and would "get out of their hair."

Obama has stated he'd be against an atomic Iran, but his focus seems mostly trained on Pakistan. He's been talking about Pakistan for almost a year now and constantly brings up the fact we should be more aggressive there. Apparently, he wants to build schools there as well. How he plans to do that, I have no idea. Pakistan's public is hugely against any kind of American presence within their borders.

As far as Obama's connections to some of these people are concerned, I would like to know more information as I'm sure many other people would as well. I don't know enough, but I would agree that people are defined by the company they keep.

Personally, I will not be voting for Obama or McCain. I have been very put off by the financial problems in Washington, and the candidates have both hurt themselves in my view. I don't think either one of them are right for this domestic, economy or foreign policy climates.

I will still cast a ballot out of respect to the country itself and those fighting for it overseas.

Finally a well thought out, honest answer...and I appreciate it.

But the question still exists for me....at times, the four I've mentioned have openly been in support of an Obama presidency...and Obama has responded positively to them.

Why do they support him?

Why doesn't he denounce their support?

It's much more than they would prefer Obama over Bush...I've never seen radical left based people or groups so openly for a candidate.....they normally hate all kinds of American government and leaders....I don't know about you guys and gals, but I want answers.

[GoOwls]

Come on ya'll...drop the whole black issue...it cheapens my point....please stay on topic...thanks.

[Firebird]

Go Owls, to your original questions, I would first say there's probably not a simple answer.

However, I would say current leaders in these countries like the prospect of an Obama presidency mostly because of his political record. Traditionally, Democrats are less aggressive than their Republican counterparts when it comes to foreign policy.

Bush is, of course, openly against every one of the people and countries you mentioned above and has engaged in very aggressive diplomacy (and also proxy war, Hamas/Iran). He's constantly kept them on the defensive.

I am sure they are under the the belief that Obama would be considerably less aggressive, at least openly, and would "get out of their hair."

Obama has stated he'd be against an atomic Iran, but his focus seems mostly trained on Pakistan. He's been talking about Pakistan for almost a year now and constantly brings up the fact we should be more aggressive there. Apparently, he wants to build schools there as well. How he plans to do that, I have no idea. Pakistan's public is hugely against any kind of American presence within their borders.

As far as Obama's connections to some of these people are concerned, I would like to know more information as I'm sure many other people would as well. I don't know enough, but I would agree that people are defined by the company they keep.

Personally, I will not be voting for Obama or McCain. I have been very put off by the financial problems in Washington, and the candidates have both hurt themselves in my view. I don't think either one of them are right for this domestic, economy or foreign policy climates.

I will still cast a ballot out of respect to the country itself and those fighting for it overseas.

This is something that people want to believe but just isn't true.

Consider the following list of major U.S. military actions abroad since WWII.

Korea
Dominican Republic
Vietnam and related actions
Lebanon
Grenada
Panama
Iraq I
Somalia
Bosnia
Kosovo
Haiti
Afghanistan
Iraq II

Actions in bold initiated by Democratic Administrations. 6-7 breakdown, in a half century which saw more Republican years than Dem years. The conventional wisdom just isn't true.

I will tell you a dirty secret: The Soviets, and later Russians, always preferred a Republican to a Democratic president. Republicans were traditionally much more influenced by realism and less willing to send troops on fools errands that didn't serve the national interest. Democrats were the ones that consistently let ideology cloud judgement. That is the real reason that most of the world has been appalled by the Presidency of George W. Bush.

[Firebird]

He sounded neutral in that particular quote.....certainly not against Obama as I asked for.....try again...answer my original question.

Show me a quote where he is against McCain. He hates America, regardless of the leader in control, brainwave. That's why he is neutral.

[stevefoxsc]

because it shows progress for a minority, thats the honest answer. They want america out of their turf and thats one reason they support him.

I mean be honest, if china came into the states right now armed to teeth trying to capture every blood,crip,kkk, gang/terrorist group known. You wouldn't be pleased with the red army running things would you?

they see it as a chance for them to regain their country thats what they want and thats why they like him.

[GoOwls]

This is something that people want to believe but just isn't true.

Consider the following list of major U.S. military actions abroad since WWII.

Korea
Dominican Republic
Vietnam and related actions
Lebanon
Grenada
Panama
Iraq I
Somalia
Bosnia
Kosovo
Haiti
Afghanistan
Iraq II

Actions in bold initiated by Democratic Administrations. 6-7 breakdown, in a half century which saw more Republican years than Dem years. The conventional wisdom just isn't true.

I will tell you a dirty secret: The Soviets, and later Russians, always preferred a Republican to a Democratic president. Republicans were traditionally much more influenced by realism and less willing to send troops on fools errands that didn't serve the national interest. Democrats were the ones that consistently let ideology cloud judgement. That is the real reason that most of the world has been appalled by the Presidency of George W. Bush.

We agree there.....no doubt....:notworthy

[GoOwls]

because it shows progress for a minority, thats the honest answer. They want america out of their turf and thats one reason they support him.

I mean be honest, if china came into the states right now armed to teeth trying to capture every blood,crip,kkk, gang/terrorist group known. You wouldn't be pleased with the red army running things would you?

they see it as a chance for them to regain their country thats what they want and thats why they like him.

Last time I checked, the American military doesn't occupy Bill Ayers or Chicago, Hugo Chavez or his country, Hamas or Palestine, or Iran........try again.

[GoOwls]

Show me a quote where he is against McCain. He hates America, regardless of the leader in control, brainwave. That's why he is neutral.

We know McCain isn't loved by radical leftists....Obama is....try again.

[stevefoxsc]

Last time I checked, the American military doesn't occupy Bill Ayers or Chicago, Hugo Chavez or his country, Hamas or Palestine, or Iran........try again.

isn't it ironic most get their education in the states before wrecking havoc back home...

[Firebird]

We know McCain isn't loved by radical leftists....Obama is....try again.

Ahmadinejad =/= radical leftists. He is anti-liberal. You try again and stop conflating your enemies.

Honestly, this is perhaps the thing that bugs me the most about current "conservative" thought. They have real enemies out there, but they can make no distinction between them. They prefer to lump them all together and in many cases force strange and unnatural alliances. There is only one bloated mass of liberals, muslims, communists, socialists, radicals, and atheists, all banded together to destroy baby Jesus and the flag. You, like most of the bloggers you are obviously getting this crap from, have no sense whatsoever of strategic thought.

Divide et impera. Americans are terrible at empire, which is why we need to get out of the business before it ruins us.

[svhorns]

just some thoughts of mine...

Hugo Chavez and Obama are not friends they are not allies... the Castros from Cuba are not friends with Obama unless it has to do with making some money...

Venezuela and Cuba are very cautious when dealing with the U.S.... Do I blame them no way... but Hugo and Castro are in no way direct friends with Obama... they know better than that...


Man I really don't care who people vote for but why the hell did you turn it into a fashion statement... everytime I see a glittery obama shirt that a 20 yr old man is wearing I wanna tell him he looks like an ignorant little girl... Because none of these fools know that Obama is trying to implement a cyber draft... so have fun after he is elected for president... and when your forced to work for the military...

In remarks that clearly pointed toward the restoration of the military draft under an Obama administration, the Democratic candidate said Thursday night that his job as president would include demanding that the American people recognize an “obligation” for military service. “If we are going into war, then all of us go, not just some,” Senator Barack Obama declared.

Obama went on to make his most direct statement of the campaign about expanding military service, declaring: “But it’s also important that a president speaks to military service as an obligation not just of some, but of many. You know, I traveled, obviously, a lot over the last 19 months. And if you go to small towns, throughout the Midwest or the Southwest or the South, every town has tons of young people who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s not always the case in other parts of the country, in more urban centers. And I think it’s important for the president to say, this is an important obligation. If we are going into war, then all of us go, not just some.”

yall are voting for a man that doesnt care about you... or your family...

[GoOwls]

isn't it ironic most get their education in the states before wrecking havoc back home...

Yes it is.....just as Admiral Yamamoto....;)

[stevefoxsc]

That's not true. Not at all. In fact, that statement is so far from the truth that it's seriously kinda making me sick to my stomach.

rather you want to accept it or not its true, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs

i could start dumping the pics but i'd get banned before i get 2
% of them up. Its an unfortunate truth, but its the truth. Some will vote agaisnt him because of his skin pigments

[GoOwls]

Ahmadinejad =/= radical leftists. He is anti-liberal. You try again and stop conflating your enemies.

Honestly, this is perhaps the thing that bugs me the most about current "conservative" thought. They have real enemies out there, but they can make no distinction between them. They prefer to lump them all together and in many cases force strange and unnatural alliances. There is only one bloated mass of liberals, muslims, communists, socialists, radicals, and atheists, all banded together to destroy baby Jesus and the flag. You, like most of the bloggers you are obviously getting this crap from, have no sense whatsoever of strategic thought.

Divide et impera. Americans are terrible at empire, which is why we need to get out of the business before it ruins us.

Stay on topic.....he's not leftist, true enough, but he and his country are pretty near, if not Marxist...which was in my original post...and he hates America....which was in my original post.....try again.

[GoOwls]

Ahmadinejad =/= radical leftists. He is anti-liberal. You try again and stop conflating your enemies.

Honestly, this is perhaps the thing that bugs me the most about current "conservative" thought. They have real enemies out there, but they can make no distinction between them. They prefer to lump them all together and in many cases force strange and unnatural alliances. There is only one bloated mass of liberals, muslims, communists, socialists, radicals, and atheists, all banded together to destroy baby Jesus and the flag. You, like most of the bloggers you are obviously getting this crap from, have no sense whatsoever of strategic thought.

Divide et impera. Americans are terrible at empire, which is why we need to get out of the business before it ruins us.

I do not blog...period.....I go here and KylePetty.net to talk, and we do not talk politics on KP.net.....I go all over the internet and cable news to get info....from both sides of the aisle....try again.

[Firebird]

Stay on topic.....he's not leftist, true enough, but he and his country are pretty near, if not Marxist...which was in my original post...and he hates America....which was in my original post.....try again.

No they aren't. What the hell are you smoking? Have you ever read a page of Marx in your life? If you had, you could not make that statement with a straight face. A theocratic regime with a heavy emphasis on anti-Westernism and materialism is in no way Marxist.

[svhorns]

rather you want to accept it or not its true, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs

i could start dumping the pics but i'd get banned before i get 2
% of them up. Its an unfortunate truth, but its the truth. Some will vote agaisnt him because of his skin pigments

it goes both ways... as far as voters picking candidates based on skin color... and honestly I'll give that lady in the video some credit... shes right it doesnt make sense.... though she might not have the right idea on why it doesnt make sense but shes trying...

[SaRattlerFan]

Based on what? The same fact the "Several" blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black? Women voting for Palin because she's a woman? Some men voting for her because she's "Hot"???

When you say "Several"....what exactly does that mean?

Since I stated "several have told me", here is what I meant:

"being more than two but fewer than many in number"

You still haven't answered my question.

Does it make them racist for voting for Obama simply becuase the color of his skin? If not, why the double standard for whites who are not voting for him because he's black?

[GoOwls]

No they aren't. What the hell are you smoking? Have you ever read a page of Marx in your life? If you had, you could not make that statement with a straight face. A theocratic regime with a heavy emphasis on anti-Westernism and materialism is in no way Marxist.

Adolph Hitler might have disagreed with you...;)

[Pinion]

rather you want to accept it or not its true, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs

i could start dumping the pics but i'd get banned before i get 2
% of them up. Its an unfortunate truth, but its the truth. Some will vote agaisnt him because of his skin pigments

you picked out a video with 3 people saying something. sound at work doesnt work for me right nwo. ok. 3 people. For those 3 people I can sit here at my desk and see no less than 9 black people who have all stated to me directly they are voting for Obama because he's black and that's the only reason they've given.

So you pick how many ever ******* crackers you care to pick out making fools of themselves and I will pick 2 for 1 at the absolute minimum.

[GoOwls]

It's been over two hours and 60+ posts and though there have been a few well thought out answers, my original queery remains:

Why do people, organizations, and governments who hate America love Obama?

(foot still taping on floor)

I have errands to do before the game tonight.....I expect you kids to behave yourself and stay on topic while I'm out....play nice....;) :D

Try again......:D

[H-TownLion]

Maybe the answer you look for is in the Godfather thread...

"One thing my father taught me is that you keep your friends close, but your enemies ever closer."

[pied]

It's been over two hours and 60+ posts and though there have been a few well thought out answers, my original queery remains:

Why do people, organizations, and governments who hate America love Obama?

(foot still taping on floor)

I have errands to do before the game tonight.....I expect you kids to behave yourself and stay on topic while I'm out....play nice....;) :D

Try again......:D

Well I guess because you have been unable to show that these people feel this way.

[GoOwls]

Well I guess because you have been unable to show that these people feel this way.

Your combination of "head-under-the-sheets" view of investigating politics and a full belly of Obama-Aid isn't my problem....I'm just trying to illuminate things for the information impaired.

BTW....you guys hear Obama wants hope and change but has no executive experience at fixing or changing anything, and you accept it with no question, but me, a guy who you may not agree with, but I certainly have no reason to lie....you want a bibliography of references and facts......strange you are so willing to sell out your allegience so cheaply to this man.

Try again.

[pied]

Let me see, who might be mroe trustworthy.

An anonymous guy name GoOwls who has a picture of Sadaam Hussein by his name or a United States Senator.

[drgnbkr]

It's been over two hours and 60+ posts and though there have been a few well thought out answers, my original queery remains:

Why do people, organizations, and governments who hate America love Obama?

(foot still taping on floor)

I have errands to do before the game tonight.....I expect you kids to behave yourself and stay on topic while I'm out....play nice....;) :D

Try again......:D
I think this one is easy...The people, organizations and governments who hate America love Obama because he would not support the troops, said " they are air raiding and killing innocent civilians" and has said he will retreat from our mission in Iraq, which would make all the touchy-feeley's in places like France more comfortable. He also has said he would, with no preconceived limits, sit down with fools like Iran and North Korea's glorious leaders, which would elevate them to Sane and rational status. In general, those who want to take the easy way out on world issues, the "leave me alone and I won't bother you" crowd would love this guy...

[pied]

I think this one is easy...The people, organizations and governments who hate America love Obama because he would not support the troops, said " they are air raiding and killing innocent civilians" and has said he will retreat from our mission in Iraq, which would make all the touchy-feeley's in places like France more comfortable. He also has said he would, with no preconceived limits, sit down with fools like Iran and North Korea's glorious leaders, which would elevate them to Sane and rational status. In general, those who want to take the easy way out on world issues, the "leave me alone and I won't bother you" crowd would love this guy...

Awesome.

[Pinion]

Let me see, who might be mroe trustworthy.

An anonymous guy name GoOwls who has a picture of Sadaam Hussein by his name or a United States Senator.

I pick GoOwls because, so far as I know, he's not a politician. Therefore, he can be trusted at least a little bit. The Senator cannot be trusted at all.

[pied]

I pick GoOwls because, so far as I know, he's not a politician. Therefore, he can be trusted at least a little bit. The Senator cannot be trusted at all.

CAn you imagine saying out loud what we type sometimes.

"Lonny, who do you trust more?"

"Um, I trust the guy that goes by GoOwls, don't know his real name, but he says he's a mailman."

[Pinion]

CAn you imagine saying out loud what we type sometimes.

"Lonny, who do you trust more?"

"Um, I trust the guy that goes by GoOwls, don't know his real name, but he says he's a mailman."

sure. I'd say pretty much the same thing. The fact remains that we all know there are no honest politicians. So until GoOwls proves to me, as every politician has, that I cant trust him I feel like I can.

Women are the same way. I can meet a random woman and until she's lied to me, I have no reason to not trust her. My Xwives (yes, more than 1), I know they've lied to me before. Why on Earth would I trust them now? I dont. I trust people I dont know more than I do the liars.
It just makes sense.

[Firebird]

Tell you what, Owls, I'll answer your questions in good faith if you can provide quotes of Chavez and Ahmedinejad saying they hate McCain.

[drgnbkr]

Given a choice between a guy named Barrack Hussein and Goowls...what red blooded American would not pick Goowls? Is he really a senator? Or just a professional candidate?

[Firebird]

Given a choice between a guy named Barrack Hussein and Goowls...what red blooded American would not pick Goowls? Is he really a senator? Or just a professional candidate?

Your bigotry is showing.

[SLC fan]

I think this one is easy...The people, organizations and governments who hate America love Obama because he would not support the troops, said " they are air raiding and killing innocent civilians" and has said he will retreat from our mission in Iraq, which would make all the touchy-feeley's in places like France more comfortable. He also has said he would, with no preconceived limits, sit down with fools like Iran and North Korea's glorious leaders, which would elevate them to Sane and rational status. In general, those who want to take the easy way out on world issues, the "leave me alone and I won't bother you" crowd would love this guy...

That quote is taken out of context. He was not criticizing the military for targeting civilians, as the quote might suggest, but explaining the need for an increased troop presence in Afghanistan. His point was that we could more effectively pursue terrorists with a troop surge than by relying largely on less precise airstrikes that often miss the intended target and result in collateral damage. The quote has been grossly mischaracterized. Obama has constantly commended the military for its performance in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just 12 days before he made that comment, he described U.S. troops in Afghanistan as "valiant." The notion that Obama does not support the troops is baseless. This CNN fact check provides some more info. on this issue:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/06/fact-check-what-did-obama-say-about-troops-in-afghanistan/

Regarding his position on meeting with leaders of hostile states, Obama has said that he will meet with no preconditions but not unconditionally. Specifically, he has said that he "would order lower-level preparatory talks to determine Iran's motives before agreeing to higher-level meetings" and that he does not support "automatic discussions at the presidential level." Obama, by the way, has called a nuclear armed Iran unacceptable. It should be noted that the U.S. is already enagged in multilateral talks with North Korea and recently sent a diplomat to Iran, breaking with previous policy, although he was reportedly instructed only to listen and not to negotiate. Also, as Obama has mentioned, we engaged in diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union under Ronald Reagan and other presidents despite being in the midst of the Cold War. Reagan, of course, called them the Evil Empire. There have been many instances in which we have talked with hostile regimes and even more in which we've talked to and entered alliances with brutal regimes that were guilty of significant human rights abuses antithetical to U.S. values. Such diplomatic ties could certainly have been seen as legitimizing and elevating those governments. Here's another CNN fact check on Obama's position on this issue:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/25/fact-check-would-obama-meet-unconditionally-with-iran/

Interestingly, Henry Kissinger, hardly a dove, supports meeting with Iran without conditions. Here's an article about that:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/kissinger-backs.html

The original post in this thread is highly flawed and is reminiscent of the countless attempts to demonize Obama by tying him to radical figures. First, it is a gross overtatement to say that all of those people/governments/organizations love Obama. I'd also like to see some documentation of their support for Obama. Second, any suggestion that he supports or sympathizes with those people/groups is absurd on its face. Third, we could easily turn this around on McCain. Why do 100 percent (or nearly 100 percent) of white supremecists support McCain? Why do conservative pastors who have made disparaging remarks about Muslims, Catholics, and gays support McCain? McCain probably is probably preferred by a high percentage of corrupt businessmen. Does that mean that McCain supports corruption? Of course not. He's probably supported by Christian extremists who support bombing abortion clinics as well. Anti-government militants, while likely hostile to both candidates, would probably prefer McCain. Does McCain support bombing abortion clincs and radical militants? Again, of course not. Fourth, foreign policy should not necessarily be treated as a zero sum game. Even if an Obama presidency is in Iran's best interest, it does not necessarily follow that an Obama presidency is not in America's best interest. Having Obama in office the last 8 years would have benefitted Saddam Hussein, but if you are one who believes that the war was not in our own best interest (as the majority of the country now believes), having Obama in office also would have benefitted us. As another example, not going to war with the Soviet Union benefitted both countries. Obviously they preferred having an American president who they saw as rational and unlikely to rashly go to war, which was also in America's interest.

[SLC fan]

Given a choice between a guy named Barrack Hussein and Goowls...what red blooded American would not pick Goowls? Is he really a senator? Or just a professional candidate?

Wow. Please tell me that was just a politically incorrect joke intended to mock the bigotry that such a view would reflect.

[GoOwls]

Tell you what, Owls, I'll answer your questions in good faith if you can provide quotes of Chavez and Ahmedinejad saying they hate McCain.

My thread.....my rules....start your own....you know...like a third party....;) :D

[GoOwls]

GoOwls folds his hands behind his head and sits, basking in the glow of pwnership of The Yard for an afternoon......job well done sir....job well done......:notworthy

Now I'm off to important business........Garland vs. Sachse.

BTW....the original querry still stands....

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama.....I'm still waiting, taping my foot on the floor......try again.

:D

[t-long20]

Obama is a muslim terrorist and racist bent on destroying the United States.

Duh!

[JMSFan]

Tell you what, Owls, I'll answer your questions in good faith if you can provide quotes of Chavez and Ahmedinejad saying they hate McCain.

Heres an article about Chavez back in March of this year. It pretty well sums it up for you.


http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN2540966820080325?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true

heres another. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obama_obfuscates_on_chavez_far.html

[stevefoxsc]

My thread.....my rules....start your own....you know...like a third party....;) :D

your thread yes. Your rules, no. KT'S rules :D
GoOwls folds his hands behind his head and sits, basking in the glow of pwnership of The Yard for an afternoon......job well done sir....job well done......:notworthy

Now I'm off to important business........Garland vs. Sachse.

BTW....the original querry still stands....

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama.....I'm still waiting, taping my foot on the floor......try again.

:D

and i believe i answered that question respectfully once, maybe a differen't approach.

Mc cain = redneck
Redneck = ignorant r tard.
Ignorant r tard with to much power = others suffering.

black guy beating a white guy = minorities over coming the opression of the racist white man
(no i dont buy the opression bs either)

[tayb]

Maybe they believe that Obama will pull our tents out of their backyards? Not sure why anyone would that think given the fact that historically Democrats have shown a much greater willingness to send troops. The obvious exception, of course, is the Bush family of Democrats masquerading as Republicans.

[slorch]

A polarizing figure the likes which we have'nt had since Abe Lincoln. Whats that in the air......smells like Civil War to me. We need to get rid of closet racists like you Mr. Owl.

Barack Hussein obama doesn't even belong in the same sentence with Abe Lincoln.

Thank you for perpetuating the idea that to oppose Barack Hussein Obama is to support racism. Nothing owl said had anything to do with racism, that is, until you so conveniently levied that label.

[SLC fan]

Barack Hussein obama doesn't even belong in the same sentence with Abe Lincoln.

Thank you for perpetuating the idea that to oppose Barack Hussein Obama is to support racism. Nothing owl said had anything to do with racism, that is, until you so conveniently levied that label.

What's the purpose of using Obama's full name all the time? You think it has a nice ring to it?

[SaRattlerFan]

That quote is taken out of context. He was not criticizing the military for targeting civilians, as the quote might suggest, but explaining the need for an increased troop presence in Afghanistan. His point was that we could more effectively pursue terrorists with a troop surge than by relying largely on less precise airstrikes that often miss the intended target and result in collateral damage. The quote has been grossly mischaracterized. Obama has constantly commended the military for its performance in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just 12 days before he made that comment, he described U.S. troops in Afghanistan as "valiant." The notion that Obama does not support the troops is baseless. This CNN fact check provides some more info. on this issue:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/06/fact-check-what-did-obama-say-about-troops-in-afghanistan/

Regarding his position on meeting with leaders of hostile states, Obama has said that he will meet with no preconditions but not unconditionally. Specifically, he has said that he "would order lower-level preparatory talks to determine Iran's motives before agreeing to higher-level meetings" and that he does not support "automatic discussions at the presidential level." Obama, by the way, has called a nuclear armed Iran unacceptable. It should be noted that the U.S. is already enagged in multilateral talks with North Korea and recently sent a diplomat to Iran, breaking with previous policy, although he was reportedly instructed only to listen and not to negotiate. Also, as Obama has mentioned, we engaged in diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union under Ronald Reagan and other presidents despite being in the midst of the Cold War. Reagan, of course, called them the Evil Empire. There have been many instances in which we have talked with hostile regimes and even more in which we've talked to and entered alliances with brutal regimes that were guilty of significant human rights abuses antithetical to U.S. values. Such diplomatic ties could certainly have been seen as legitimizing and elevating those governments. Here's another CNN fact check on Obama's position on this issue:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/25/fact-check-would-obama-meet-unconditionally-with-iran/

Interestingly, Henry Kissinger, hardly a dove, supports meeting with Iran without conditions. Here's an article about that:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/kissinger-backs.html

The original post in this thread is highly flawed and is reminiscent of the countless attempts to demonize Obama by tying him to radical figures. First, it is a gross overtatement to say that all of those people/governments/organizations love Obama. I'd also like to see some documentation of their support for Obama. Second, any suggestion that he supports or sympathizes with those people/groups is absurd on its face. Third, we could easily turn this around on McCain. Why do 100 percent (or nearly 100 percent) of white supremecists support McCain? Why do conservative pastors who have made disparaging remarks about Muslims, Catholics, and gays support McCain? McCain probably is probably preferred by a high percentage of corrupt businessmen. Does that mean that McCain supports corruption? Of course not. He's probably supported by Christian extremists who support bombing abortion clinics as well. Anti-government militants, while likely hostile to both candidates, would probably prefer McCain. Does McCain support bombing abortion clincs and radical militants? Again, of course not. Fourth, foreign policy should not necessarily be treated as a zero sum game. Even if an Obama presidency is in Iran's best interest, it does not necessarily follow that an Obama presidency is not in America's best interest. Having Obama in office the last 8 years would have benefitted Saddam Hussein, but if you are one who believes that the war was not in our own best interest (as the majority of the country now believes), having Obama in office also would have benefitted us. As another example, not going to war with the Soviet Union benefitted both countries. Obviously they preferred having an American president who they saw as rational and unlikely to rashly go to war, which was also in America's interest.

So he makes a "point" by accusing our troops of air raiding villages and killing innocent civilians? I don't care how much you libs spin this, he is not supporting the troops by making that statement.

Concerning no "pre-conditions" - nice spin job after he made the statement.

Here's the BIG difference between McCain and Obama concerning terrorists. McCain hasn't sat in the house of terrorists that "bomb abortion clinics". Obama has been to Ayers house and has served with him on a board of directors. You can't spin this one libs. Obama had a direct association with a man that bombed his own country!

P.S. - nice job of typing the liberal talking points and pulling links off the Communist News Network (CNN).

[SLC fan]

So he makes a "point" by accusing our troops of air rading villages and killing innocent civilians? I don't care how much you libs spin this, he is not supporting the troops by making that statement.

Concerning no "pre-conditions" - nice spin job after he made the statement.

Here's the BIG difference between McCain and Obama concerning terrorists. McCain hasn't sat in the house of terrorists that "bomb abortion clinics". Obama has been to Ayers house and has served with him on a board of directors. You can't spin this one libs. Obama had a direct association with a man that bombed his own country!

P.S. - nice job of typing the liberal talking points and pulling links off the Communist News Network (CNN).

I'm not really a liberal, actually. I'm pretty squarely in the middle overall. But some of the anti-Obama propaganda is ridiculous at best and outrageous at worst. I anticipated your CNN bashing, but I have seen nothing that contradicts what they said. The fact checks they do are indeed pretty factual and expose false and misleading statements from both campaigns. Would it make you feel better if I posted one that made Obama look bad?

As for your points, Obama wasn't accusing the troops of anything. He was stating a fact and explaining his reasons for advocating a troop surge in Afghanistan. Some of our airstrikes have resulted in the loss of innocent civilians. It's not a criticism, just a fact. Acknowledging that reality is not indicative of an anti-troops mentality. He's not accusing the military of targeting civilians or anything of the sort. He's simply advocating what he believes would be a more effective strategy in combating the terrorists, which may also have the effect of reducing collateral damage, which would certainly be a desirable outcome both from a humanitarian standpoint and a political/strategic standpoint. Considering the context of his comment and his consistent praise of the military, it takes quite a bit of distortion to portray Obama as being against the troops.

The Ayers association is pretty weak. Here's a summary from CNN's fact check squad:

Obama's Chicago home is in the same neighborhood where Ayers and Dohrn live. Beginning in 1995, Ayers and Obama worked with the non-profit Chicago Annenberg Challenge on a huge school improvement project. The Annenberg Challenge was for cities to compete for $50 million grants to improve public education. Ayers fought to bring the grant to Chicago, and Obama was recruited onto the board. Also from 1999 through 2001 both were board members on the Woods Fund, a charitable foundation that gave money to various causes, including the Trinity United Church that Obama attended and Northwestern University Law Schools' Children and Family Justice Center, where Dohrn worked.

CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved.

Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt told CNN that after meeting Obama through the Annenberg project, Ayers hosted a campaign event for him that same year when then-Illinois state Sen. Alice Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced the young community organizer as her chosen successor. LaBolt also said the two have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in their Hyde Park neighborhood.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/

More about the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from factcheck.org, as posted on Newsweek's web site:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163396/page/7

The Challenge was one of 18 projects supported by a $500 million grant announced at a White House ceremony Dec. 18, 1993, by the Annenberg Foundation, founded four years earlier by Philadelphia publisher Walter Annenberg. It was the largest single gift ever made to public education in America. The Chicago project received a $49.2 million grant in 1995, and officials administering the grant funds at Brown University announced at the time that the Chicago proposal was developed through discussions among "a broad-based coalition of local school council members, teachers, principals, school reform groups, union representatives and central office staff" convened by three educators – one of whom was Ayers. Mayor Richard M. Daley, a Democrat, and Gov. Jim Edgar, a Republican, took part in a ceremony announcing the grant.

This is from a separate entry:

Among the mainstream Chicago luminaries on Obama's board was Arnold R. Weber, a former president of Northwestern University, who in 1971 was appointed by Republican President Richard Nixon as executive director of the Cost of Living Council and who later was tapped by Republican President Ronald Reagan to serve on an emergency labor board. More recently, Weber has given $1,500 to John McCain's presidential campaign this year.

Others on Obama's supposedly "radical" board included Stanley Ikenberry, a former president of the University of Illinois system; Ray Romero, a vice president of Ameritech; Susan Crown, a philanthropist; Handy Lindsey, the president of the Field Foundation of Illinois; and Wanda White, the executive director of the Community Workshop for Economic Development.

How shameful of Obama to involve himself in an anti-poverty charity and a project to improve public schools. Just awful! And shame on all those other morally bankrupt people such as the Republican governor, the mayor, the McCain contributor who served Nixon and Reagan, the former presidents of Northwestern University and the University of Illinois school system, and everyone else.

As for Obama sitting in Ayers' home, the fact is that Ayers, who lived a few blocks away from Obama, hosted one campaign event (a meet-and-greet coffee according to factcheck.org) the year he ran for the state Senate. He wasn't exactly hanging out with Ayers and knocking back a few beers while reminiscing over Ayers' involvement with the Weather Underground. There is no evidence that they had a close relationship and no evidence that Obama in any way shares Ayers' views or condones his acts. To the contrary, Obama has called Ayers' acts "detestable." I really don't know how any reasonable person can believe that his loose association with Ayers reflects negatively on his character. This really is a desperate attempt by the McCain campaign to exploit the irrational fear that many have Obama.

[SaRattlerFan]

As for Obama sitting in Ayers' home, the fact is that Ayers, who lived a few blocks away from Obama, hosted one campaign event (a meet-and-greet coffee according to factcheck.org) the year he ran for the state Senate. He wasn't exactly hanging out with Ayers and knocking back a few beers while reminiscing over Ayers' involvement with the Weather Underground. There is no evidence that they had a close relationship and no evidence that Obama in any way shares Ayers' views or condones his acts. To the contrary, Obama has called Ayers' acts "detestable." I really don't know how any reasonable person can believe that his loose association with Ayers reflects negatively on his character. This really is a desperate attempt by the McCain campaign to exploit the irrational fear that many have Obama.

Drinking coffee in Ayers home alone is enough to deny Obama a Top Secret-SCI security clearance. Associating with a known terrorist = denial of security clearance. His admitted drug use would be another reason for denying a security clearance.

Spin it all you want, but the bottomline is this guy should not be adminstered a Top Secret Security Clearance under current guidelines, therefore, he's not fit to be President.

[SaRattlerFan]

As for Obama sitting in Ayers' home, the fact is that Ayers, who lived a few blocks away from Obama, hosted one campaign event (a meet-and-greet coffee according to factcheck.org) the year he ran for the state Senate. He wasn't exactly hanging out with Ayers and knocking back a few beers while reminiscing over Ayers' involvement with the Weather Underground. There is no evidence that they had a close relationship and no evidence that Obama in any way shares Ayers' views or condones his acts. To the contrary, Obama has called Ayers' acts "detestable." I really don't know how any reasonable person can believe that his loose association with Ayers reflects negatively on his character. This really is a desperate attempt by the McCain campaign to exploit the irrational fear that many have Obama.

Hand-picked by Ayers to serve on the board isn't a close relationship?

[SLC fan]

Drinking coffee in Ayers home alone is enough to deny Obama a Top Secret-SCI security clearance. Associating with a known terrorist = denial of security clearance. His admitted drug use would be another reason for denying a security clearance.

Spin it all you want, but the bottomline is this guy should not be adminstered a Top Secret Security Clearance under current guidelines, therefore, he's not fit to be President.

One problem: no guidelines exist that would prevent Barack Obama from obtaining a top-secret security clearance. If past drug use precluded a president from obtaining such clearance, George Bush would have been in trouble. The same goes for Bill "I didn't inhale" Clinton. By the way, who did you vote for in 2000 and 2004? It couldn't have been Bush given the criteria you've established.

I am not intimately familiar with the requirements for obtaining a security clearance, but I do know that the CIA, in hiring people, will sometimes overlook experimental drug use at a young age provided that an applicant is honest about it and has not used drugs for a certain period of time. If they didn't, it would significantly shrink their pool of eligible employees. And his loose association with a former terrorist who is/was a professor of education at the University of Chicago and an advisor to the mayor that revolved around educational and anti-poverty projects wouldn't (and doesn't) disqualify him from obtaining a high security clearance. I guarantee you that many law enforcement and CIA employees (many with high security clearances) do not have a perfectly clean background.

Obama has been thoroughly vetted. There's no evidence of him having a drug problem and no evidence of him being a terrorist supporter, sympathizer, apologist . . . anything. There should be no concerns about him having a high security clearance. Do you really believe that he's going to betray the country? Do you really believe that he's not responsible enough to have access to such information? If so, I don't know what to say at this point. If you feel that way, I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise.

[SLC fan]

Hand-picked by Ayers to serve on the board isn't a close relationship?

It wouldn't be, no, but it appears that that wasn't the case anyway.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/163396/page/7

Kurtz originally claimed that Ayers somehow was responsible for installing Obama as head of the board, speculating in his "cover-up" article that Obama "almost certainly received the job at the behest of Bill Ayers." But after days of poring over the records, he failed to produce any evidence of that in his Wall Street Journal article. To the contrary, Ayers was not involved in the choice, according to Deborah Leff, then president of the Joyce Foundation. She told the Times, and confirmed to FactCheck.org, that she recommended Obama for the position to Patricia Graham of the Spencer Foundation. Graham told us that she asked Obama if he'd become chairman; he accepted, provided Graham would be vice-chair.

The bipartisan board of directors, which did not include Ayers, elected Obama chairman, and he served in that capacity from 1995 to 1999, awarding grants for projects and raising matching funds. Ayers headed up a separate arm of the group, working with grant recipients. According to another board member, Ayers "was not significantly involved with the challenge after Obama was appointed." One possible reason had little to do with Obama himself, but instead was related to cautions about conflicts of interest; the group was funding some of Ayers' own alternative school projects.

[slorch]

if that's what people want to beleive...then so be it. To me that is sort of an insult saying "Blacks know NOTHING about politics....they are just voting for the black guy'.....I know SEVERAL Blacks who are McCain supporters and SEVERAL whites that support Obama....Dang...give us Blackies SOME credit Sir.

It's the same mentality that labels a vote against Barack Hussein Obama as racist. I have been accused a few times recently of this phenomenon. Those of you that read my posts, know that I did in fact vote for a black candidate in the Republican Primary. In my book, that simply makes me a voter, not racist. It no more disqualifies me from being a racist than not liking Barack Hussein Obama makes me one.

As for the way blacks are voting, let's check out the percentage of whites voting for Barack Hussein Obama, and then examine the number of blacks saying that they are voting for McCain.

The very fact that we don't see that discussed is incredible, but throwing out labels is so much fun...:rolleyes:

I know you don't roll like that, so I don't mean you, but I'm sick of the race card being played in this election.

[slorch]

For every person voting FOR Obama because he's black....their is two people voting against him because he's black....


I promised to stay away from political threads.....so back to bashing OU I go....

care to substantiate that one?

[slorch]

What's the purpose of using Obama's full name all the time? You think it has a nice ring to it?

JFK

William Jefferson Blythe Clinton

Ronald Wilson Reagan

why do we say these guys' middle name all of the time?

[Firebird]

One problem: no guidelines exist that would prevent Barack Obama from obtaining a top-secret security clearance. If past drug use precluded a president from obtaining such clearance, George Bush would have been in trouble. The same goes for Bill "I didn't inhale" Clinton. By the way, who did you vote for in 2000 and 2004? It couldn't have been Bush given the criteria you've established.

I am not intimately familiar with the requirements for obtaining a security clearance, but I do know that the CIA, in hiring people, will sometimes overlook experimental drug use at a young age provided that an applicant is honest about it and has not used drugs for a certain period of time. If they didn't, it would significantly shrink their pool of eligible employees. And his loose association with a former terrorist who is/was a professor of education at the University of Chicago and an advisor to the mayor that revolved around educational and anti-poverty projects wouldn't (and doesn't) disqualify him from obtaining a high security clearance. I guarantee you that many law enforcement and CIA employees (many with high security clearances) do not have a perfectly clean background.

Obama has been thoroughly vetted. There's no evidence of him having a drug problem and no evidence of him being a terrorist supporter, sympathizer, apologist . . . anything. There should be no concerns about him having a high security clearance. Do you really believe that he's going to betray the country? Do you really believe that he's not responsible enough to have access to such information? If so, I don't know what to say at this point. If you feel that way, I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise.

1. The President gets the clearance no matter what he has done, because he is the President. No one knows for sure about W's drug use in the past, but his alcohol issues would certainly send up all sorts of red flags. Given how long he's been clean, he probably would have gotten it if he had to apply for some reason. But it's all moot, because the POTUS is given access to everything.

2. You are correct about the CIA and their requirements. I am very familiar with the requirements for a security clearance. Recreational drug use, even cocaine is not an automatic disqualifier for the CIA, although it cannot have been habitual. You also have to be honest about it during your poly. Other agencies have different standards though. The FBI is notoriously stringent.


3. His meeting with Ayers is not an automatic disqualifier either. The investigation that is done for a TS/SCI takes a "whole person" approach. Having met and talked to a criminal or terrorist is not an automatic disqualifier. It's certainly not when it happens at a public function with many people around, years after said individual (who has never been convicted of a crime) was active in violent anti-American activities. It's not something that you want to do, by any means, but the people who clear you are not stupid. It'll be something they look at. They will want to know exactly how close you were to the person. If Obama is telling the truth and all that happened was a grip and grin at a political coffee hour, and later some work on a charitable board with other local politicos, it won't disqualify you. SA Rattler is overstating the case. It'd be different if you had met with a wanted fugitive and just neglected to tell anyone about it. In all honesty, what they really would worry about with Obama is not his relationship with Ayers, but his non-citizen family. That makes it hell to get any kind of clearance at all.

[GoOwls]

your thread yes. Your rules, no. KT'S rules :D


and i believe i answered that question respectfully once, maybe a differen't approach.

Mc cain = redneck
Redneck = ignorant r tard.
Ignorant r tard with to much power = others suffering.

black guy beating a white guy = minorities over coming the opression of the racist white man
(no i dont buy the opression bs either)

1. Wink and big smilie......I was joking with bird.......pull the stick out of...well....;)

2. like I said....I'm still waiting on an intelligent answer devoid of racial gobble-d-gook like what you just said....try again.

[GoOwls]

One problem: no guidelines exist that would prevent Barack Obama from obtaining a top-secret security clearance. If past drug use precluded a president from obtaining such clearance, George Bush would have been in trouble. The same goes for Bill "I didn't inhale" Clinton. By the way, who did you vote for in 2000 and 2004? It couldn't have been Bush given the criteria you've established.

I am not intimately familiar with the requirements for obtaining a security clearance, but I do know that the CIA, in hiring people, will sometimes overlook experimental drug use at a young age provided that an applicant is honest about it and has not used drugs for a certain period of time. If they didn't, it would significantly shrink their pool of eligible employees. And his loose association with a former terrorist who is/was a professor of education at the University of Chicago and an advisor to the mayor that revolved around educational and anti-poverty projects wouldn't (and doesn't) disqualify him from obtaining a high security clearance. I guarantee you that many law enforcement and CIA employees (many with high security clearances) do not have a perfectly clean background.

Obama has been thoroughly vetted. There's no evidence of him having a drug problem and no evidence of him being a terrorist supporter, sympathizer, apologist . . . anything. There should be no concerns about him having a high security clearance. Do you really believe that he's going to betray the country? Do you really believe that he's not responsible enough to have access to such information? If so, I don't know what to say at this point. If you feel that way, I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise.

The fact reamains that the female governor of Alaska has a much higher national security clearance than the junior senator of Illinois....and for good reason.

[Firebird]

The fact reamains that the female governor of Alaska has a much higher national security clearance than the junior senator of Illinois....and for good reason.

This is a fact, huh? What clearance does she hold? You'll need to provide some reputable source of information on this one, because the google only turns up the same recycled blog post, which says "she may hold clearances we don't even know about."

[GoOwls]

I go to a HS football game and you guys turn my thread into a pile of horses mess......

Please stay on topic and allow the liberal Obama-aid drinkers to answer my question that I still haven't seen anybody answer yet.....I've gotten a bunch of rhetoric and inflamatory racial stuff, but nobody, with the exception of KT and 1 other, has come even close to answering the initial question over 100 posts ago.....try again.

I don't really count KT because he isn't a person who's drunken with an Obama-Aid stench.....:eek:

[Firebird]

I go to a HS football game and you guys turn my thread into a pile of horses mess......

Please stay on topic and allow the liberal Obama-aid drinkers to answer my question that I still haven't seen anybody answer yet.....I've gotten a bunch of rhetoric and inflamatory racial stuff, but nobody, with the exception of KT and 1 other, has come even close to answering the initial question over 100 posts ago.....try again.

I don't really count KT because he isn't a person who's drunken with an Obama-Aid stench.....:eek:

This thread sucked from the get go and we're doing all we can to get it going somewhere better. If you want to inspire a good conversation, don't start by poisoning the well.

[SLC fan]

JFK

William Jefferson Blythe Clinton

Ronald Wilson Reagan

why do we say these guys' middle name all of the time?

People usually didn't use Reagan and Clinton's middle name. JFK was certainly common. Regardless, I'll take you at your word (or your implication to be more precise). However, the constant use of his middle name by some is suspicious. It's likely that some are attempting to play on the prejudices of a segment of society.

[SLC fan]

The fact reamains that the female governor of Alaska has a much higher national security clearance than the junior senator of Illinois....and for good reason.

Based on what? I find that hard to believe. If it's a fact, it shouldn't be hard to offer supporting evidence. Even if it were true, I don't see the relevance of it. Are you suggesting that Obama has an unusually low clearance for a senator because they view him as being untrustworthy? There's no way that's true.

[GoOwls]

This thread sucked from the get go and we're doing all we can to get it going somewhere better. If you want to inspire a good conversation, don't start by poisoning the well.

Dear sir.....I have started a classic thread that the libs can't answer.....the lemmings stopped jumping off the cliff for a minute and had to think about it a bit....for a change.....

Good conversation comes from two good points of view....I'm still waiting on you guys to provide the other......try again.

[SLC fan]

Dear sir.....I have started a classic thread that the libs can't answer.....the lemmings stopped jumping off the cliff for a minute and had to think about it a bit....for a change.....

Good conversation comes from two good points of view....I'm still waiting on you guys to provide the other......try again.

Your refusual to back up your own claims shows that you're not interested in being intellectually honest. Given that, why would you expect anyone to engage you in a serious discussion? I addressed your "questions" (which were really not so subtle commentary on why you think Obama is the wrong choice), but I realize that I wasted my time in doing so. Admit it, there is nothing anyone can say that will cause you to honestly reevaluate your position.

[GoOwls]

Based on what? I find that hard to believe. If it's a fact, it shouldn't be hard to offer supporting evidence. Even if it were true, I don't see the relevance of it. Are you suggesting that Obama has an unusually low clearance for a senator because they view him as being untrustworthy? There's no way that's true.

GoOwls tugs on the string and heads and necks jump forward in perfect unison.

My rediculous non-point is as rediculous as you guys using rhetoric and racism to answer my direct question...which STILL hasn't been answered.

So for the memory challenged, let's try the queery again:

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama.....just why?

try again.....

[GoOwls]

Your refusual to back up your own claims shows that you're not interested in being intellectually honest. Given that, why would you expect anyone to engage you in a serious discussion? I addressed your "questions" (which were really not so subtle commentary on why you think Obama is the wrong choice), but I realize that I wasted my time in doing so. Admit it, there is nothing anyone can say that will cause you to honestly reevaluate your position.

Because you CAN'T answer that question without dissing on Obama...your guy.

Look, I'm 50 and internet impaired....I don't know the tricks of moving multiple quotes and stuff to prove my point...I'm old school....my memory serves me just fine.....if you don't like it, so be it.....big whoop-t-doo...I could care less....

My opinion needs no re-evaluation...my question needs answering and it appears that no lib will cross the line and drop the rhetoric and racial answers to all things they can't or won't face or assess on an intelligent level....it's just plain easier to toss rhetoric and racial bombs to quell the conservative insurgents.

try again.

[SLC fan]

GoOwls tugs on the string and heads and necks jump forward in perfect unison.

My rediculous non-point is as rediculous as you guys using rhetoric and racism to answer my direct question...which STILL hasn't been answered.

So for the memory challenged, let's try the queery again:

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama.....just why?

try again.....

I see, counterpoints are dismissed as rhetoric. Meanwhile, you repeatedly make dubious claims without substantiating them.

I'm not going to indulge you any further. It's clear that you just enjoy fighting with people and getting under their skin. Now I remember why I usually avoid discussing politics on the internet.

[JMSFan]

GoOwls has pwned all of you. :notworthy

[Firebird]

I see, counterpoints are dismissed as rhetoric. Meanwhile, you repeatedly make dubious claims without substantiating them.

I'm not going to indulge you any further. It's clear that you just enjoy fighting with people and getting under their skin. Now I remember why I usually avoid discussing politics on the internet.

Nawwww...you gotta keep hammering. You find the right spot and he'll get all bent out of shape. Never know what it's gonna be, though. Gotta scattershot.

[GoOwls]

I had four examples of America haters back in post one....here's another:

Louis Farrakhan, racist and hater of America, says in February that Barrack Obama is "The Messiah"....of all things....what heresay....:eek:

Farrakhan, hater of America, loves Obama so much he thinks Obama is "The Messiah".

Why do haters of America love Obama?

Link, for those who hate me for not providing them:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/farrakhan_calls_obama_the_mess.html

try again.....

[GoOwls]

I see, counterpoints are dismissed as rhetoric. Meanwhile, you repeatedly make dubious claims without substantiating them.

I'm not going to indulge you any further. It's clear that you just enjoy fighting with people and getting under their skin. Now I remember why I usually avoid discussing politics on the internet.

buh-bye....;)

[stevefoxsc]

1. Wink and big smilie......I was joking with bird.......pull the stick out of...well....;)

2. like I said....I'm still waiting on an intelligent answer devoid of racial gobble-d-gook like what you just said....try again.

when you're talking to someone with the iq of a jujube you gotta make things as simple as possible. sorry i didn't put some coloring and pop up pictures in my post.

[GoOwls]

when you're talking to someone with the iq of a jujube you gotta make things as simple as possible. sorry i didn't put some coloring and pop up pictures in my post.

I noticed you left them out...I normally expect a bunch of coloring in your posts....are you out of crayons? :D

[GoOwls]

Over 14 1/2 hours and the pwnage continues.....The Yard is mine.....:notworthy














:D

[DragonWatcher]

Over 14 1/2 hours and the pwnage continues.....The Yard is mine.....:notworthy


Generally someone other than yourself has to call pwnage on a thread or post, anything else is just a faux aggrandising of the self in an attempt to inflate ones own ego.

And as to why they like Obama, I would imagine that they, along with the majority of Americans as indicated by polls feel that the country has headed in the wrong direction in the last 8 years. The ultimate reason your post is asinine is that it relies heavily on the logical fallacy of begging the question and a non sequitur argument. It's a classic case of the association fallacy used as an ad hominem, basically that the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument implies the same motive.

The first part of the problem with your argument is how it is begging the question. Begging the question is demonstrating a conclusion by means of premises that assumes that conclusion. Your assuming that Obama is bad based on data that have the underlying belief that these people are fundamentally bad. In textbook logic it basically boils down to P implies Q, suppose P, therefore Q. You then draw an undocumented and unsubstantiated conclusion that just uses circular logic that doesn't prove anything.

The biggest problem with your argument is that it uses the Association fallacy to try and deem something as true. This fallacy goes like this, A makes claim P, B makes claim P, therefore A is B. It implies a flawed system of logic that has been seen as wrong dating all the way back to Aristotle. In layman's terms Barack Obama says we shouldn't be in Iraq, Achmenijad says we shouldn't be in Iraq, therefore Barack Obama is like Achmenijad.

You can think your right in your own head all you want, there's a reason the majority of people disagree with you on this thread. The reason they can't "disprove" or "explain" what you have said is the argument is set up on fundamentally flawed logic/debate. It can't be argued because the basic presumptions of the logic/argument are inherently flawed, therefore reason and logical arguments are excluded from such a discussion.

[Slim-Rob]

the REAL question, is: has he seen http://smiliesftw.com/x/2girls.gif?

[slorch]

Your refusual to back up your own claims shows that you're not interested in being intellectually honest. Given that, why would you expect anyone to engage you in a serious discussion? I addressed your "questions" (which were really not so subtle commentary on why you think Obama is the wrong choice), but I realize that I wasted my time in doing so. Admit it, there is nothing anyone can say that will cause you to honestly reevaluate your position.

given the lack of any substantial response by the libs, it shows that they're not interested in being politically honest.

[slorch]

Generally someone other than yourself has to call pwnage on a thread or post, anything else is just a faux aggrandising of the self in an attempt to inflate ones own ego.

And as to why they like Obama, I would imagine that they, along with the majority of Americans as indicated by polls feel that the country has headed in the wrong direction in the last 8 years. The ultimate reason your post is asinine is that it relies heavily on the logical fallacy of begging the question and a non sequitur argument. It's a classic case of the association fallacy used as an ad hominem, basically that the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument implies the same motive.

The first part of the problem with your argument is how it is begging the question. Begging the question is demonstrating a conclusion by means of premises that assumes that conclusion. Your assuming that Obama is bad based on data that have the underlying belief that these people are fundamentally bad. In textbook logic it basically boils down to P implies Q, suppose P, therefore Q. You then draw an undocumented and unsubstantiated conclusion that just uses circular logic that doesn't prove anything.

The biggest problem with your argument is that it uses the Association fallacy to try and deem something as true. This fallacy goes like this, A makes claim P, B makes claim P, therefore A is B. It implies a flawed system of logic that has been seen as wrong dating all the way back to Aristotle. In layman's terms Barack Obama says we shouldn't be in Iraq, Achmenijad says we shouldn't be in Iraq, therefore Barack Obama is like Achmenijad.

You can think your right in your own head all you want, there's a reason the majority of people disagree with you on this thread. The reason they can't "disprove" or "explain" what you have said is the argument is set up on fundamentally flawed logic/debate. It can't be argued because the basic presumptions of the logic/argument are inherently flawed, therefore reason and logical arguments are excluded from such a discussion.

guilt by association is the only thing left when Barack Hussein Obama refuses to speak without a script.

His past memoirs show the blatant racism he embodies.

His past voting record shows his liberalism.

The people he surrounds himself may simply be "associations," as you say, but I see them as direct insight into someone's character and heart.

Fact is, many of the people that are most intimately involved with Barack Hussein Obama have been quoted as having an outward dislike for America. I do not understand how people are willing to just write that off as simple political dissent.

[JMSFan]

Generally someone other than yourself has to call pwnage on a thread or post, anything else is just a faux aggrandising of the self in an attempt to inflate ones own ego.
And as to why they like Obama, I would imagine that they, along with the majority of Americans as indicated by polls feel that the country has headed in the wrong direction in the last 8 years. The ultimate reason your post is asinine is that it relies heavily on the logical fallacy of begging the question and a non sequitur argument. It's a classic case of the association fallacy used as an ad hominem, basically that the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument implies the same motive.

The first part of the problem with your argument is how it is begging the question. Begging the question is demonstrating a conclusion by means of premises that assumes that conclusion. Your assuming that Obama is bad based on data that have the underlying belief that these people are fundamentally bad. In textbook logic it basically boils down to P implies Q, suppose P, therefore Q. You then draw an undocumented and unsubstantiated conclusion that just uses circular logic that doesn't prove anything.

The biggest problem with your argument is that it uses the Association fallacy to try and deem something as true. This fallacy goes like this, A makes claim P, B makes claim P, therefore A is B. It implies a flawed system of logic that has been seen as wrong dating all the way back to Aristotle. In layman's terms Barack Obama says we shouldn't be in Iraq, Achmenijad says we shouldn't be in Iraq, therefore Barack Obama is like Achmenijad.

You can think your right in your own head all you want, there's a reason the majority of people disagree with you on this thread. The reason they can't "disprove" or "explain" what you have said is the argument is set up on fundamentally flawed logic/debate. It can't be argued because the basic presumptions of the logic/argument are inherently flawed, therefore reason and logical arguments are excluded from such a discussion.

1. refer to post 112.
2. He isnt asking you to " disprove " anything, The examples of people and organizations that he used are ones that have expressed hate for America, and they have expressed support for Obama. Nothing for you to "disprove" here. It really cant be argued. Its true.
3. Really his question has nothing to do with those people as much as it has to do with Obama. They are not presidential candidates, but he is, so why doesnt he speak out against them and make them hate him too? Even the issue with ACORN is shady for him. So far he hasnt spoke out against ACORN, but he has tried to say that he hasnt ever had anything to do with them. We all know better.
4. I believe the answer to his question lies in the fact that Obama is MORE like them than he has led you to believe.

[yallerjacket]

3. Really his question has nothing to do with those people as much as it has to do with Obama. They are not presidential candidates, but he is, so why doesnt he speak out against them and make them hate him too? Even the issue with ACORN is shady for him. So far he hasnt spoke out against ACORN, but he has tried to say that he hasnt ever had anything to do with them. We all know better.


Maybe because the POTUS shouldn't be a hated figure all over the world.

[SaRattlerFan]

One problem: no guidelines exist that would prevent Barack Obama from obtaining a top-secret security clearance. If past drug use precluded a president from obtaining such clearance, George Bush would have been in trouble. The same goes for Bill "I didn't inhale" Clinton. By the way, who did you vote for in 2000 and 2004? It couldn't have been Bush given the criteria you've established.

I am not intimately familiar with the requirements for obtaining a security clearance, but I do know that the CIA, in hiring people, will sometimes overlook experimental drug use at a young age provided that an applicant is honest about it and has not used drugs for a certain period of time. If they didn't, it would significantly shrink their pool of eligible employees. And his loose association with a former terrorist who is/was a professor of education at the University of Chicago and an advisor to the mayor that revolved around educational and anti-poverty projects wouldn't (and doesn't) disqualify him from obtaining a high security clearance. I guarantee you that many law enforcement and CIA employees (many with high security clearances) do not have a perfectly clean background.

Obama has been thoroughly vetted. There's no evidence of him having a drug problem and no evidence of him being a terrorist supporter, sympathizer, apologist . . . anything. There should be no concerns about him having a high security clearance. Do you really believe that he's going to betray the country? Do you really believe that he's not responsible enough to have access to such information? If so, I don't know what to say at this point. If you feel that way, I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise.

Since I held a top clearance for over 20 years, I know a little about what's involved. Believe me, they will check out his drug use, his associates, his childhood neighbors and friends, his overseas family, and a whole bunch more. Given he's associated with terrorist, has foreign family, and has admitted using drugs, he should be denied a clearance. They won't deny him one, but I'm skeptical he deserves to have one.

[Firebird]

Since I held a top clearance for over 20 years, I know a little about what's involved. Believe me, they will check out his drug use, his associates, his childhood neighbors and friends, his overseas family, and a whole bunch more. Given he's associated with terrorist, has foreign family, and has admitted using drugs, he should be denied a clearance. They won't deny him one, but I'm skeptical he deserves to have one.

He's old enough he wouldn't even have to list his childhood residences overseas on the SF-86.

[H-TownLion]

I got a question now....

Why do Christians who hate other religions want McCain to win?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/11/speaker-at-mccain-rally-says-non-christians-want-an-obama-win/

I eagerly await an answer.... :Music

[JMSFan]

I got a question now....

Why do Christians who hate other religions want McCain to win?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/11/speaker-at-mccain-rally-says-non-christians-want-an-obama-win/

I eagerly await an answer.... :Music

I want Obama to win.

[stevefoxsc]

I got a question now....

Why do Christians who hate other religions want McCain to win?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/11/speaker-at-mccain-rally-says-non-christians-want-an-obama-win/

I eagerly await an answer.... :Music

why I'm one who always vebelieves in letting god do the judging, i'll have to contradict my self.

Those are what i call fake Christians, donate lots of money, go to church every Sunday and believe they're alright and can do what they want, because they're going to heaven. When they're just as bad as anyone else the term wolfs with sheeps comes to mind.


Beside you said hate should be an indication of them being a fake christian.

I personally have tolerance for majority of religions out there Scientology being the only one i don't tolerate.

[GoOwls]

Generally someone other than yourself has to call pwnage on a thread or post, anything else is just a faux aggrandising of the self in an attempt to inflate ones own ego.

And as to why they like Obama, I would imagine that they, along with the majority of Americans as indicated by polls feel that the country has headed in the wrong direction in the last 8 years. The ultimate reason your post is asinine is that it relies heavily on the logical fallacy of begging the question and a non sequitur argument. It's a classic case of the association fallacy used as an ad hominem, basically that the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument implies the same motive.

The first part of the problem with your argument is how it is begging the question. Begging the question is demonstrating a conclusion by means of premises that assumes that conclusion. Your assuming that Obama is bad based on data that have the underlying belief that these people are fundamentally bad. In textbook logic it basically boils down to P implies Q, suppose P, therefore Q. You then draw an undocumented and unsubstantiated conclusion that just uses circular logic that doesn't prove anything.

The biggest problem with your argument is that it uses the Association fallacy to try and deem something as true. This fallacy goes like this, A makes claim P, B makes claim P, therefore A is B. It implies a flawed system of logic that has been seen as wrong dating all the way back to Aristotle. In layman's terms Barack Obama says we shouldn't be in Iraq, Achmenijad says we shouldn't be in Iraq, therefore Barack Obama is like Achmenijad.

You can think your right in your own head all you want, there's a reason the majority of people disagree with you on this thread. The reason they can't "disprove" or "explain" what you have said is the argument is set up on fundamentally flawed logic/debate. It can't be argued because the basic presumptions of the logic/argument are inherently flawed, therefore reason and logical arguments are excluded from such a discussion.

1. check post #112....maybe you should try to be more thorough and read the whole thread before you stick hoof in mouth.....:D

2. Wow, you wrote 4 paragraphs to say absolutely nothing.....I wish I had your kind of spare time....that's some serious spare time....:eek:

I mean, that was a bunch of college "yada yada sis boom bah" crap from some theory class....I mean, where did you copy and paste that crud from?

After over 2 1/2 days, the question still stands like John Wayne in a Western:

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama?........

........try again.....;)

[HebronHawk]

He's old enough he wouldn't even have to list his childhood residences overseas on the SF-86.

A POTUS should have to list his entire lifetime's residences, imo.

[Firebird]

A POTUS should have to list his entire lifetime's residences, imo.

POTUS gets cleared no matter what because he's the POTUS so it is all a moot point. Why does anyone possibly care where he lived when he was 8 years old? You worried that he was out consorting with terrorists? This whole line of thinking is incredibly stupid.


What, do the conservatives now want an ELECTED president to have to go through the nine month clearance process before we swear them in?:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

POTUS gets cleared no matter what because he's the POTUS so it is all a moot point. Why does anyone possibly care where he lived when he was 8 years old? You worried that he was out consorting with terrorists? This whole line of thinking is incredibly stupid.


What, do the conservatives now want an ELECTED president to have to go through the nine month clearance process before we swear them in?:rolleyes:

I think it is amazing that you wouldn't care that a guy could never get a security clearance other than by being elected..what does that say? And who cares what he did at 8 years of age? It is the things he has done as an adult which trouble many of us. And looking at the polls today, it seems to be troubling more and more of us.

[jakerz]

And looking at the polls today, it seems to be troubling more and more of us.

lol what

[Firebird]

I think it is amazing that you wouldn't care that a guy could never get a security clearance other than by being elected..what does that say? And who cares what he did at 8 years of age? It is the things he has done as an adult which trouble many of us. And looking at the polls today, it seems to be troubling more and more of us.

It's all just speculation that he couldn't. I've addressed all of the points raised.

[drgnbkr]

lol what

What what?:D The polls are all tightening...

[Warbird]

Barack Obama might have been able to get a security clearance if he hadn't worked with Ayers for years (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODE2MDAxZjBiYTI1OWI4YzNlM2RmYWU4MzU2MTM3Zjc=&w=MQ==). "Some guy who lives in my neighborhood" my foot.

[drgnbkr]

Barack Obama might have been able to get a security clearance if he hadn't worked with Ayers for years (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODE2MDAxZjBiYTI1OWI4YzNlM2RmYWU4MzU2MTM3Zjc=&w=MQ==). "Some guy who lives in my neighborhood" my foot.

I think it is a given that Obama made some incredible errors in judgment, as an adult, and it is equally incredible that some choose to say that these things are unimportant, and shouldn't be discussed.

[Warbird]

Not to mention his membership in the New Party and multiplicity of ties to Acorn.

[GoOwls]

It's 3 days, almost to the minute, and GoOwls still stands waiting, tapping his foot on the floor, expecting to get an answer that he knows, in reality, that no lib can, or will, answer.....try again.

[SaRattlerFan]

It's all just speculation that he couldn't. I've addressed all of the points raised.

"Speculation?" I know a guy who was denied a TS-SCI because he smoked a little weed in college. Obama not only smoked weed, he also admitted to cocaine use. He had an assoication with a know terrorist. He'll get his clearance if elected POTUS, but he doesn't deserve one.

[ark20]

a brother is about the run the best country in the world--if u dont like it u better get use to it....

it will be blacks that will vote for him because he is black and there will be whites that wont vote for him because he is black...

i'm voting for him because of his views....not because of his skin color....:notworthy

[chhspantherfan]

a brother is about the run the best country in the world--if u dont like it u better get use to it....

it will be blacks that will vote for him because he is black and there will be whites that wont vote for him because he is black...

i'm voting for him because of his views....not because of his skin color....:notworthy

and those would be?

[GoOwls]

"Speculation?" I know a guy who was denied a TS-SCI because he smoked a little weed in college. Obama not only smoked weed, he also admitted to cocaine use. He had an assoication with a know terrorist. He'll get his clearance if elected POTUS, but he doesn't deserve one.

Firebird needs to know that the Feds hold postal workers to a higher standard than Obama will be....

I know of three people who applied to the P.O. as a clerk/carrier....took the exam... passed the exama and got on the role.....go an interview and went in for the job.....but on the question "Have you ever used a controlled substance illegally", they feared being caught in a lie, answered "yes"....and were not hired on that basis...not officially...but that was the reason.

Sleep well, bird and others , knowing that your president isn't held to the standard of your mailman....yes, I know Bush used also....non-issue, he's on his way out and we talked about this, in house, in 2000....old news to us mailmen....;)

[GoOwls]

and those would be?

You do know Obama voted for all of Bush's budgets....right....;)

Change...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[GoOwls]

and those would be?

Sorry chhspantherfan, I wanted to direct that last post to BUSH 25.

[Firebird]

"Speculation?" I know a guy who was denied a TS-SCI because he smoked a little weed in college. Obama not only smoked weed, he also admitted to cocaine use. He had an assoication with a know terrorist. He'll get his clearance if elected POTUS, but he doesn't deserve one.

You know as well as I do that it all depends on what agency you are talking about and many other factors. It is a FACT that not all drug use, especially if it occurred years ago and was not habitual, is not an automatic disqualifer. Neither is foreign family, neither is his acquaintance and even board service with Ayers, a current University Professor. That information is freely available on the web for anyone who cares to know.

[chhspantherfan]

Sorry chhspantherfan, I wanted to direct that last post to BUSH 25.

no problem, I do nnot take things personally. Nor do I believe "sound bites" or "comments taken out of context" identify the belief of the speaker. Unfortuately, the media has an agenda and what is being heard is a result of what the media wants. I think Obama, McCain, Palin, and Biden have all been taken out of context with the media pouncing on anyone that doesn't support that particular outlet's agenda. This is really good theatre if one can remove oneself from the fray. Unfotunately, we will have many more voting that get their opinions from the pundits rather than history and reading, than ever before. :(

[SaRattlerFan]

and those would be?
Change! True Change!:rolleyes:

[ACM Dad]

Major red flags during the bail out when Pelosi (sp?), Frank, Dodd et.al. wanted to "support the president". Run away. Very far away when this happens.

[the_phoenix612]

Change! True Change!:rolleyes:

http://www.wvi.com/~coinguy/coins.jpg

[stevefoxsc]

You do know Obama voted for all of Bush's budgets....right....;)

Change...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2779431

[HUM398]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2779431

Bro... Why the hate towards Asians and blacks.

[stevefoxsc]

Bro... Why the hate towards Asians and blacks.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2779455

[HUM398]

black people are gay

you are so racist.

[the_phoenix612]

you are so racist.

i think you are taking this board too seriously.

[4th and 1]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......

.....but this is the real question you should ask.....

Is Obama the moderate change agent he positions himself to be, or is he a man who, by his associations, subscribes to an arguably Marxist outlook of the dismantling of our democracy/republic?

This is not from the point of who Obama likes, but WHO LIKES HIM AND WHY.

Bill Ayers and Acorn represent a far left view of America......they love Obama....WHY?

Hugo Chavez...the America Hater....loves Obama.....WHY?

The leadership of Iran....openly anti-American...loves Obama.....WHY?

Hammas and their leadership....the violent terrorist organization.....loves Obama.....WHY?

I could go on and on.......

WHY DO PEOPLE, TERRORISTS, AND COUNTRIES THAT HATE AMERICA LOVE BARRACK OBAMA?

So let's just forget about who Obama likes and focus on why certain people like him...it sheds a bit of illumination as to why some people dont' trust him with our country....not that I trust McCain with it either.....but I have real concerns about a guy with so many people who hate America loving him so much.

If they like him...could it be they think their almost Marxist ideologies will be more closely represented by him than we know about....

Just maybe they know something about the man that we don't....and that is what scares me to death....:(

JMHO

Easy - it's his middle name - it's a magnet for those who hate the U.S.

[stevefoxsc]

you are so racist.

2/10 just points for trying fail troll other wise

[stevefoxsc]

i think you are taking this board too seriously.

he missed the memo where i'm black, he reminds me of those poor forums trolls that try to troll race and end up calling you one thing when your another still 2/10's for him

[Bobcat81]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......

.....but this is the real question you should ask.....

Is Obama the moderate change agent he positions himself to be, or is he a man who, by his associations, subscribes to an arguably Marxist outlook of the dismantling of our democracy/republic?

This is not from the point of who Obama likes, but WHO LIKES HIM AND WHY.

Bill Ayers and Acorn represent a far left view of America......they love Obama....WHY?

Hugo Chavez...the America Hater....loves Obama.....WHY?

The leadership of Iran....openly anti-American...loves Obama.....WHY?

Hammas and their leadership....the violent terrorist organization.....loves Obama.....WHY?

I could go on and on.......

WHY DO PEOPLE, TERRORISTS, AND COUNTRIES THAT HATE AMERICA LOVE BARRACK OBAMA?

So let's just forget about who Obama likes and focus on why certain people like him...it sheds a bit of illumination as to why some people dont' trust him with our country....not that I trust McCain with it either.....but I have real concerns about a guy with so many people who hate America loving him so much.

If they like him...could it be they think their almost Marxist ideologies will be more closely represented by him than we know about....

Just maybe they know something about the man that we don't....and that is what scares me to death....:(

JMHO

......and the Bafoon would like us to believe he is a Christian, yet he mocks passages in the bible? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCNKwHRCQM&feature=related

What kind of so called "Christian" does that?

....and a Muslim leader (Farrakhan), calls Obama "The Messiah" while his podium reads "In The Name of Allah"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10

Obama is nothing but trouble and has pulled the wool over waaaaay to many gullable Americans. The stupidity amongst us... Lordy!! :rolleyes:

This country is about to be taken without even firing a shot

[stevefoxsc]

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America love Barrack Obama?........

........try again.....;)

seems everyone that has made logical contribution sent to you is rejected.
Lets use good old fashion prejudice propaganda and ignorance in the form of a song

try actually paying attention to it maybe you'll understand why others like him so strongly from other countries.
Grimskunk - America Sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyLeK6Cr20E

here are the lyrics for you as well and no they're Canadian... no i don't like nor agree with the song.


America sucks
we're all brainwashed
and our culture's ******
America sucks
we're all going down cuz we're **** out of luck
We gotta reset
In the wester world, where we're all free
There ain't no room for true democracy
No one listens to a word you say
And no one cares about you anway
America sucks the inner cities
burn but our eyes are shut
America sucks in fascist economy and greed we trust
We gotta reset
In the home of the brave and the land of the free
There ain't no equal opportunity
The doors are shut, accept your fate
The rich white male must dominate
So **** the blacks and **** the mexicans
Let 'em all starve in the ghettos
**** the poor and **** the sick
Let 'em all die in the ghettos
I see a cold indifferent nation
In desparate need of inspiration
I got the feeling we lost our way somehow
Where are your heros, where are your heroes now
We gotta reset America sucks
we've all gone blind with superpower lust
America sucks listen up suckers cuz our time is up

[HUM398]

he missed the memo where i'm black, he reminds me of those poor forums trolls that try to troll race and end up calling you one thing when your another still 2/10's for him

Its doesn't matter. you are still such a racist.


I don't need a memo, the fact that you seem to always fall back on "you just don't want a black man in office" is getting really old.

I have no basis to call you a racist besides the fact that i just want to call you one. Just like you have no bases to call anyone else such, or even imply it.

Do i take this board to seriously...ummm..no...but i do find arrogance and stupidity a highly annoying quality from the likes of posters such as yourself.

[HUM398]

i think you are taking this board too seriously.

man, your post make me want to kill myself.

[ACM Dad]

We are a stupid country overall. There ought to be a really easy test to determine if you can vote. John Staussel (sp) from ABC was showing people on the streets photos of some famous politicians etc. Several of them didn't know who half of the people were. One guy thought Biden was McCain. So, maybe if they showed you 10 photos and you had to accurately identify say 3 of them. Maybe that would prove you have some idea of current political events.

It often cracks me up when 20 something days to the election, the media and candidates spend all this time courting the undecided.

How in the name of all that is good and holy can you not have made up your mind by now if you have kept up with any of this crap even in the slightest? Amazing.

They say Gore was 10 points up at this time in 1999. So McCain folks still hold some hope.

McCain has run a crappy campaign in my opinion. Hell, I could put together a commercial for TV against Obama just using the comments from the other democratic candidates during the primaries. Lots of Biden and Hillary sound bites.

He needs to figure out what Hillary started doing (albeit it too late for her) when she made that come back at the end of primary season. Hell, a 3AM ad would be better than a lot of the crap I'm seeing. Or not seeing being that we are in TX and our votes really won't count towards determining any of this.

then I'm reading about Obama's tax cuts for all under 250,000 and there's a part in there where the folks that pay no taxes now (as in low income) are going to get increased checks from the govt. Evening out wealth. Income redistribution.

The United Socialist States of America. It's coming unless we get a miracle.

[ACM Dad]

As far as "electing a brother" as someone stated earlier, make that a "half a brother". His momma was white and a christian. His daddy was black and a muslim.

His half-brother lives in Africa in total poverty. There's a compassionate family man for you.

[stevefoxsc]

Its doesn't matter. you are still such a racist.


I don't need a memo, the fact that you seem to always fall back on "you just don't want a black man in office" is getting really old.

I have no basis to call you a racist besides the fact that i just want to call you one. Just like you have no bases to call anyone else such, or even imply it.

Do i take this board to seriously...ummm..no...but i do find arrogance and stupidity a highly annoying quality from the likes of posters such as yourself.

reading is one of your weak points, every time i've fallen back to using statements like that i always made it clear as why i did. Please go check for your self. tsk tsk tsk

[KatySwarm]

This thread is ret@rded.

[pied]

As far as "electing a brother" as someone stated earlier, make that a "half a brother". His momma was white and a christian. His daddy was black and a muslim.

His half-brother lives in Africa in total poverty. There's a compassionate family man for you.

That's good stuff. Really confusing though.

Are you proud that Obama is half white, because you don't seem to like him very much so that doesn't make much sense. If not, what is your point? Is somehow being bi-racial worse than being pure-white or pure-black?

[tayb]

The things I want to know is how often he mows his lawn, what does he eat for breakfast, what his Elementary School teachers thought of him, whether or not his mother made him eat his veggies, and if he likes to grill hamburgers. Only the important stuff.

[JMSFan]

That's good stuff. Really confusing though.

Are you proud that Obama is half white, because you don't seem to like him very much so that doesn't make much sense. If not, what is your point? Is somehow being bi-racial worse than being pure-white or pure-black?

Quit instigating.

[the_phoenix612]

Republicans are ret@rded.

fify

[stevefoxsc]

fify

lol thats gonna ignite this thread

[the_phoenix612]

lol thats gonna ignite this thread

this whole board wasn't quite....heated enough for me.

:ninja:

[GoOwls]

Well, now that we've been gifted with Stevefox's shift key impaired rants....we're exactly where we started....no cogent answer to my question....just the immature responses from a couple of kids who have the intuitive processes of seaweed....

....the original point still stands and all the juvenile rhetoric does not and will not distort the fact that in almost 4 days, no one, and I mean no one, has answered the question......

Forget Obama, himself.....I think he is a fine man and has good intentions...he is not the point of my question....the point is....

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America, love Barrack Obama....in other words, what makes him so attractive to our enemies that they, in many cases, openly support him above all others, including other Democrats?

This is not an indictment of Obama, but an indictment of perception...an indictment of how others across the world percieve him and what he means to their agendas.....

Remember perception is fact to most people.....what effect will an Obama presidency have on emboldening our enemies....it sure seems to me that they really want him in power....WHY?

Now......try again....;)

[GoOwls]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2779431

Stevie and phoenix....Stevie and phoenix...shame shame shame.....

To bad you big boys couldn't risk getting banned by putting your thoughts on the open forum and had to hide them in links...really manly....really big men....:rolleyes:

The fact remains that you haven't and can't answer my question directly...can you?

Please don't risk getting threads closed just becasue of your personal frustrations of not having the answers to my questions.

BTW, HEARSAY is one word....;)

dictionary.com

[pied]

Well, now that we've been gifted with Stevefox's shift key impaired rants....we're exactly where we started....no cogent answer to my question....just the immature responses from a couple of kids who have the intuitive processes of seaweed....

....the original point still stands and all the juvenile rhetoric does not and will not distort the fact that in almost 4 days, no one, and I mean no one, has answered the question......

Forget Obama, himself.....I think he is a fine man and has good intentions...he is not the point of my question....the point is....

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America, love Barrack Obama....in other words, what makes him so attractive to our enemies that they, in many cases, openly support him above all others, including other Democrats?

This is not an indictment of Obama, but an indictment of perception...an indictment of how others across the world percieve him and what he means to their agendas.....

Remember perception is fact to most people.....what effect will an Obama presidency have on emboldening our enemies....it sure seems to me that they really want him in power....WHY?

Now......try again....;)


I'll try in two parts.

First, you have really failed to make a point. In four days we have two links supporting your point. The first was from JMSFan regarding one of the people you mentioned originally, Chavez. In the link provided, Chavez indicated that he did not like McCain very much, but NEVER mentioned Obama. Weird huh?

"Independently of who wins the elections, we are hopeful and it is within our plans to enter an era of better relations with the U.S. government," he said. "At the least one would hope for the level of relations we had with ex-President Clinton."

He did not mention Democratic hopefuls Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Both are cautious about Chavez, although Obama has said he could meet him.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN2540966820080325?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true

You provided a link to Farrakhan, whom you did not include in the people that hated America. I can only assume you could not find more on the ones you orriginally mentioned.

Second, there probably is some truth to what you say. In your words,

*Forget Obama, himself.....I think he is a fine man and has good intentions

and I am certain that you are aware that he has spoken out against Farrakhan and others, much like McCain did with Hagee. In the end these attacks simply seem like more of the same.

Many people hate who is in power and want to see someone new. I would guess that the people that Clinton attacked in Kosovo didn't like him very much. Many of those same people, likely won't like Obama much if he were to win. Hitler/Hirohito probably did not like FDR much. Castro did not like Kennedy very much and it's possible they liked their chances with someone else. That doesn't make the Republican candidates at the time bad for the country.

[pied]

Quit instigating.


I apologize. This seems like a rational statement and not intended to inflame:


As far as "electing a brother" as someone stated earlier, make that a "half a brother". His momma was white and a christian. His daddy was black and a muslim.

[chhspantherfan]

I apologize. This seems like a rational statement and not intended to inflame:

must make him a Whack Chrislum.....or is it Blite Mustian......oh what the heck, he is a man. He is 40.....no wrong guy. shoot. poor choice of words. shitake. this political season is driving me mad. No.......i don't want to be madfan.......just can't seem to get the right words.........Vote?......heck yes I will vote, where do you register? Too late?.......dam* %%$&*..........see ?:rolleyes:

[HUM398]

reading is one of your weak points, every time i've fallen back to using statements like that i always made it clear as why i did. Please go check for your self. tsk tsk tsk

Im not interested in your justification for making incompetent statements...doesn't make them any less incompetent.

[HUM398]

fify

Slorch is going to be pissed.

at both of you.

[stevefoxsc]

Why do people, organizations, and countries who hate America, love Barrack Obama....in other words, what makes him so attractive to our enemies that they, in many cases, openly support him above all others, including other Democrats?

This is not an indictment of Obama, but an indictment of perception...an indictment of how others across the world percieve him and what he means to their agendas.....

Remember perception is fact to most people.....what effect will an Obama presidency have on emboldening our enemies....it sure seems to me that they really want him in power....WHY?

Now......try again....;)


the question has been answered many times. The question now is, are you getting the answers you wanted?

No no no. You don't want to hear its the first time a black man could make it in office, or that he believes in a more direct negotiation in working out issues vs starting a war. Which is a reason most people like him from other parts.

No no, the answer your wanting to hear is the same repetitive cliche that most people who know little about him spit.

You want to hear they hate us because we're are free, and that obama is gonna change it and let them attack us. Thats the answer your looking for.

Check the lyrics to the song THAT'S how other people see America.

oh and percieve is "perceive http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perceive

[JMSFan]

seems everyone that has made logical contribution sent to you is rejected.
Lets use good old fashion prejudice propaganda and ignorance in the form of a song

try actually paying attention to it maybe you'll understand why others like him so strongly from other countries.
Grimskunk - America Sucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyLeK6Cr20E

here are the lyrics for you as well and no they're Canadian... no i don't like nor agree with the song.


America sucks
we're all brainwashed
and our culture's ******
America sucks
we're all going down cuz we're **** out of luck
We gotta reset
In the wester world, where we're all free
There ain't no room for true democracy
No one listens to a word you say
And no one cares about you anway
America sucks the inner cities
burn but our eyes are shut
America sucks in fascist economy and greed we trust
We gotta reset
In the home of the brave and the land of the free
There ain't no equal opportunity
The doors are shut, accept your fate
The rich white male must dominate
So **** the blacks and **** the mexicans
Let 'em all starve in the ghettos
**** the poor and **** the sick
Let 'em all die in the ghettos
I see a cold indifferent nation
In desparate need of inspiration
I got the feeling we lost our way somehow
Where are your heros, where are your heroes now
We gotta reset America sucks
we've all gone blind with superpower lust
America sucks listen up suckers cuz our time is up

These lyrics are garbage.

[stevefoxsc]

These lyrics are garbage.

yeah i agree with you, unfortunately in this world thats how they see us (america) Stereotypes and ignorance are dangerous.

[Warbird]

yeah i agree with you, unfortunately in this world thats how they see us (america) Stereotypes and ignorance are dangerous.

Agreed. Can the rest of the world honestly claim to do as much for people as we do? We've had black Supreme Court Justices, CEOs, universiity heads, and star academics. Do the rest of these democracies. Hardly. Britain, for example, hasn't a single black mayor of a mid-sized city, to my knowledge.

Pathetic. These guys need to quit smoking whatever they're using and pull their head out.

[4th and 1]

Something to think about:
If Barack Obama were to apply for a position with the Secret Service, he would be disqualified because of his past association with William Ayers, a known terrorist.
If he is elected president, he would not qualify to be his own bodyguard!:eek:

[GoOwls]

the question has been answered many times. The question now is, are you getting the answers you wanted?

No no no. You don't want to hear its the first time a black man could make it in office, or that he believes in a more direct negotiation in working out issues vs starting a war. Which is a reason most people like him from other parts.

No no, the answer your wanting to hear is the same repetitive cliche that most people who know little about him spit.

You want to hear they hate us because we're are free, and that obama is gonna change it and let them attack us. Thats the answer your looking for.

Check the lyrics to the song THAT'S how other people see America.

oh and percieve is "perceive http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perceive

I see your answers and I'm left with a quandry.....I equate it to swimming.....I want to take a nice dive into a deep pool but I'm left wading in a low spot in the yard....you answer your own paranoid delusions that I'm attacking Obama, I'm not, I'm asking that we get in the heads of the people who love him for no apparent reason....you focus on me attacking Obama is just plain paranoia.

[GoOwls]

I'll try in two parts.

First, you have really failed to make a point. In four days we have two links supporting your point. The first was from JMSFan regarding one of the people you mentioned originally, Chavez. In the link provided, Chavez indicated that he did not like McCain very much, but NEVER mentioned Obama. Weird huh?



http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN2540966820080325?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true

You provided a link to Farrakhan, whom you did not include in the people that hated America. I can only assume you could not find more on the ones you orriginally mentioned.

Second, there probably is some truth to what you say. In your words,

*Forget Obama, himself.....I think he is a fine man and has good intentions

and I am certain that you are aware that he has spoken out against Farrakhan and others, much like McCain did with Hagee. In the end these attacks simply seem like more of the same.
Many people hate who is in power and want to see someone new. I would guess that the people that Clinton attacked in Kosovo didn't like him very much. Many of those same people, likely won't like Obama much if he were to win. Hitler/Hirohito probably did not like FDR much. Castro did not like Kennedy very much and it's possible they liked their chances with someone else. That doesn't make the Republican candidates at the time bad for the country.

Look, I say this in the most simple terms I can as it is apparent you guys don't get it.....

I don't care about what Obama said or thinks or does....it's not my point...I want to know the motivation of the people, etc., who openly have man love for Obama, but hate America....on the surface, their love for ANY American in power would seem hypocritical.....I want to know why THEY love HIM and what they expect to gain from his presidency....from a country they hate and, in general, would like to see destroyed or restructured into somethin resembling a Marxist state.

FORGET WHAT OBAMA THINKS OR SAYS...focus on the motivation of the America haters.....please....try again....:eek:

[KatySwarm]

Why don't you just post your answer already...jeez
No one can read into your head and what you are thinking.

[pied]

Look, I say this in the most simple terms I can as it is apparent you guys don't get it.....

I don't care about what Obama said or thinks or does....it's not my point...I want to know the motivation of the people, etc., who openly have man love for Obama, but hate America....on the surface, their love for ANY American in power would seem hypocritical.....I want to know why THEY love HIM and what they expect to gain from his presidency....from a country they hate and, in general, would like to see destroyed or restructured into somethin resembling a Marxist state.

FORGET WHAT OBAMA THINKS OR SAYS...focus on the motivation of the America haters.....please....try again....:eek:

Because they know that he is going to come in eliminate the dollar, have every child taken from their parents and given to be wards of the state. He will disband all churches and everyone will be required to learn the Koran and Bibles will be burned. Money will be replaced with credits which will be given out equally to every citizen 2X a month. And because he is the anti-Christ.

[Warbird]

Because they know that he is going to come in eliminate the dollar, have every child taken from their parents and given to be wards of the state. He will disband all churches and everyone will be required to learn the Koran and Bibles will be burned. Money will be replaced with credits which will be given out equally to every citizen 2X a month. And because he is the anti-Christ.

Congratulations, Pied, you've managed to post what the left perceives as conservative views: horrendous stereotypes. I realize you're undecided, but quit listening to the Obamessiah and the O-postles to step back and look at what the guy really is advocating.

When I vote for McCain and not for Obama, it'll be because his policies flat-out suck, not because of the color of his skin or the fact that he apparently thinks I'm slightly ******** for wanting to bitterly cling to my sky god and boomsticks.

[KatySwarm]

Congratulations, Pied, you've managed to post what the left perceives as conservative views: horrendous stereotypes. I realize you're undecided, but quit listening to the Obamessiah and the O-postles to step back and look at what the guy really is advocating.

When I vote for McCain and not for Obama, it'll be because his policies flat-out suck, not because of the color of his skin or the fact that he apparently thinks I'm slightly ******** for wanting to bitterly cling to my sky god and boomsticks.

That's the views of the people (conservatives) on this board. Just by reading around.

[DrEdward]

That's the views of the people (conservatives) on this board. Just by reading around.

Hardly. I beleve that many of us whom you might classify as conservative have views significantly different from those cited.

[stevefoxsc]

I see your answers and I'm left with a quandry.....I equate it to swimming.....I want to take a nice dive into a deep pool but I'm left wading in a low spot in the yard....you answer your own paranoid delusions that I'm attacking Obama, I'm not, I'm asking that we get in the heads of the people who love him for no apparent reason....you focus on me attacking Obama is just plain paranoia.

Ahah tsk tsk. You miss the simplest answer, why do they like him? it was obviously pointed out in that stereotype song against America that's how the world see's us. If that was to simple to grasp there is no hope for you.

Have i ever said you were attacking obama? Not yet, but with the amount of ***** envy you've shown. You could lead anyone to that belief. So you say i focus on you attacking him. Ironic that you spend every attempt you get to troll him away or bringing him up when its not even required.

tsk tsk tsk

[JMSFan]

Ahah tsk tsk. You miss the simplest answer, why do they like him? it was obviously pointed out in that stereotype song against America that's how the world see's us. If that was to simple to grasp there is no hope for you.

Have i ever said you were attacking obama? Not yet, but with the amount of ***** envy you've shown. You could lead anyone to that belief. So you say i focus on you attacking him. Ironic that you spend every attempt you get to troll him away or bringing him up when its not even required.

tsk tsk tsk


Poor little Obama. He's so mistreated.

[pied]

Congratulations, Pied, you've managed to post what the left perceives as conservative views: horrendous stereotypes. I realize you're undecided, but quit listening to the Obamessiah and the O-postles to step back and look at what the guy really is advocating.

When I vote for McCain and not for Obama, it'll be because his policies flat-out suck, not because of the color of his skin or the fact that he apparently thinks I'm slightly ******** for wanting to bitterly cling to my sky god and boomsticks.

I have looked at what he proposes and what McCain does. Not a ton of difference to me in the end. I have talked about these for quite a while.

I don't have to see what the left perceives as conservative views, I can see for myself what some and sadly more Republican supporters say. In fact I only need to look on this board.

Horrendous?:


This guy captures my feelings about as well as anyone I've read...Unusually objective for a college prof.
Agreement not required....

Obama is a vapid demagogue, a hollow man that despises American culture. He is ill-suited to be president of the United States. As the weeks pass, more Americans will come to this realization and elect McCain/Palin in a landslide.


DAVID DEMING is an associate professor of Arts and Sciences at the University of Oklahoma, but his opinions do not necessarily represent those of the university.This is MY country. I am a citizen and a voter. It is MY country. I determine what it does for me. If I allow it, it happens. If I don't allow it, it doesn't. So I own this country. I determine what happens here. Does ANYONE disagree with that position?

So, if this is MY country........why would I elect a person who refuses to PLEDGE ALLIGENCE to MY country?

I've never thought an American would be the Antichrist, but if anybody could, I'd say that fake.

It's so funny you say that - my 19 year old daughter said everyone she knows thinks he is. She reminded me of everything the Antichrist supposedly entails - the similarities are scary to say the least. I'm not a big believer of that stuff but, nonetheless, it gave me pause to think about it. But my reason for despising this man has nothing to do with his color, religion or his chain smoking - it is simply because he just can't explain "change" in a way other than in a big circle that comes back to "we are about change"...change of WHAT. Sometimes, change can be for the worse just as it can be for the better.

[Warbird]

I don't have to see what the left perceives as conservative views, I can see for myself what some and sadly more Republican supporters say. In fact I only need to look on this board.

By looking at those quotes, I find it very surprising, given your obvious intelligence, that:


You manage to find something wrong with that first post. Just because somebody sees Obama as a "vapid demagogue" is hardly damning evidence. Maybe it's the second part where he says that he hopes people will elecct McCain/Palin in a landslide, but if you see something wrong with this you probably need to stay out of political threads. It's rather natural for people to root for their candidate and want him to win big. Even Nader supporters want that.
Your point being...what here? There's nothing wrong with that post; the lady was referring to the problem that Obama had to explain away a picture and video that surfaced where he didn't hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge. This is rather off-putting with Americans; why would they feel comfortable putting someone in office who wasn't comfortable with performing a basic tradition of our nation?
It disturbs me that you've not yet learned to recognize the literary and rhetorical technique of hyperbole. Come on, man, this is basic rhetoric here.
The only things wrong in this post are in your imagination, dude; all she said was that "...it gave me pause to think about it." She then goe son to state her reasons for not voting for Obama, none of which includes actually fingering him as the Anti-Christ. Does Bush reminding people of Hitler not count here or something? Also:
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/117-1782_IMG.JPG
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/118-1853_IMG.JPG

[pied]

By looking at those quotes, I find it very surprising, given your obvious intelligence, that:


You manage to find something wrong with that first post. Just because somebody sees Obama as a "vapid demagogue" is hardly damning evidence. Maybe it's the second part where he says that he hopes people will elecct McCain/Palin in a landslide, but if you see something wrong with this you probably need to stay out of political threads. It's rather natural for people to root for their candidate and want him to win big. Even Nader supporters want that.
Your point being...what here? There's nothing wrong with that post; the lady was referring to the problem that Obama had to explain away a picture and video that surfaced where he didn't hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge. This is rather off-putting with Americans; why would they feel comfortable putting someone in office who wasn't comfortable with performing a basic tradition of our nation?
It disturbs me that you've not yet learned to recognize the literary and rhetorical technique of hyperbole. Come on, man, this is basic rhetoric here.
The only things wrong in this post are in your imagination, dude; all she said was that "...it gave me pause to think about it." She then goe son to state her reasons for not voting for Obama, none of which includes actually fingering him as the Anti-Christ. Does Bush reminding people of Hitler not count here or something? Also:



I am tired of the hyperbole. Not just from the fringe like the pictures you showed, but I don't consider the posters here, with rare exceptions, to be members of the fringe.

While you see the vapid demagogue in the first post, I see " a hollow man who despises American culture". Do you think that Obama despises American culture?

The Anti-Christ post was more involved. Some more excerpts:

I have had several people tell me that he is like Carpathia in the Left Behind series of books. While that is fiction, what we are going through is not. I wanted to respond to Phoenix reply to this post, but several beat me to it. The fear one must have for our Country, in this day and time, is not what CyFallsMom posts on this site. But, rather what the young people of our Country are being led to believe. I embrace their spirit and voracity in this election year. The level of thought and education that go into some of their posts is off the charts and is a driving motivator for me to continue reading threads. Their naivate in regards to BHO's lack of experience, his unspoken policy positions, and his overwhelming desire to continue down the entitlement trail are what EVERYONE needs to be scared of. Whomever gets elected in November will not doom our country, but a BHO administration could set us back for years. IMHO

Maybe now he can openly worship as a Muslim showing his true church of Islam.

We can't talk about that...or his ears...or his wife....or his friends....well...just don't bring any of it up...Remember, whatever you say about Obama, it's got to be wrong..even when it's Wright...:p



Take those as well as the continued use of Hussein and Osama in an obvious attempt to tie him to Bin Laden/Sadaam.

There is a total disconnect between the values Osama - I mean Obama espouses, and those I espouse.

So pretty much -- yeah. You are right. When your McCain yard sign is smashed and your McCain bumper sticker is defaced on your car -- yeah -- I would say that they don't want me around either.

Obama Hussein Biden sounds like Osama Bin Laden


Not to mention the great thread that suggested we begin to learn the Koran. Great stuff. I see that and I see the normal appearing(at least to me) supporters heading to a McCain/Palin rally shouting "terrorist" calling him an Arab, talking in a discssion about polls, the Bradley Effect. What I have seen from a large number of GOP supporters has been dividing to the country and not a uniting, at all.

Can Obama help in that regard? I honestly don't know. I do believe that if McCain wins that it is just more proof that this strategy will have won again and that we will not become closer as a country.

[Warbird]

I am tired of the hyperbole.

The world apologizes for its inability to accomodate you.

Not just from the fringe like the pictures you showed, but I don't consider the posters here, with rare exceptions, to be members of the fringe.

While you see the vapid demagogue in the first post, I see " a hollow man who despises American culture". Do you think that Obama despises American culture?

Only the part of it that bitterly clings to its sky god and boomsticks. He disapproved with enough of American culture that he didn't hold his hand of his heart during the pledge, disliked it enough that he attended a church that went so far as to state that one of their religious goals was the disavowal of "middle-classness". Perhaps "despise" is a bit strong of a word, but again, hyperbole.


The Anti-Christ post was more involved. Some more excerpts:


I have had several people tell me that he is like Carpathia in the Left Behind series of books. While that is fiction, what we are going through is not.
Maybe now he can openly worship as a Muslim showing his true church of Islam.



1. Really, man? Are you really arguing that a literary allusion to an eloquent character who suddenly rocketed to the political forefront is somehow out of bounds? Really? It's like you only read the bolded parts of those posts. CHHSPantherFan went on to explain her real reasons for frustration which are legitimate.
2. Well, you got me here. Evidently, HebronHawk forgot to properly label the sarcasm in his post.
3. What on Earth's wrong with his post? So now even discussing Obama or complaining how he's getting a free pass from the media is somehow wrong?

Take those as well as the continued use of Hussein and Osama in an obvious attempt to tie him to Bin Laden/Sadaam.

No, they enjoy doing it to annoy you. Seriously, I'm not kidding here. Since they feel that Obama's getting a free pass from his followers and from the media, they think it's fun to twist their tails. Furthermore, I think you loose all license to complain about how somebody pointed out that two out of three words he/she listed rhyme, especially when Ted Kennedy himself screwed it up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos)


Not to mention the great thread that suggested we begin to learn the Koran. Great stuff. I see that and I see the normal appearing(at least to me) supporters heading to a McCain/Palin rally shouting "terrorist" calling him an Arab, talking in a discssion about polls, the Bradley Effect. What I have seen from a large number of GOP supporters has been dividing to the country and not a uniting, at all.

As opposed to Barack Obama's supporters who, you know, http://www.webtrec.com/ebay/palin3.jpg wear t-shirts calling Sarah Palin a C***[/URL].

Now, as far as uniting people, Obama told his supporters to go get in other people's faces, in addition to doing this Orwellian crap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA&eurl=http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/is-this-1984-missouri-public-officials-join-obamas-truth-squad/)

In other words, if you plan to disagree with him, he'll force you to cooperate. Brilliant. So, according to this Truth Squad malarkey, Obama wants you arrested if you were to, say, question his judgment. "Unity" my foot.

[the_phoenix612]

The world apologizes for its inability to accomodate you.



Only the part of it that bitterly clings to its sky god and boomsticks. He disapproved with enough of American culture that he didn't hold his hand of his heart during the pledge, disliked it enough that he attended a church that went so far as to state that one of their religious goals was the disavowal of "middle-classness". Perhaps "despise" is a bit strong of a word, but again, hyperbole.




1. Really, man? Are you really arguing that a literary allusion to an eloquent character who suddenly rocketed to the political forefront is somehow out of bounds? Really? It's like you only read the bolded parts of those posts. CHHSPantherFan went on to explain her real reasons for frustration which are legitimate.
2. Well, you got me here. Evidently, HebronHawk forgot to properly label the sarcasm in his post.
3. What on Earth's wrong with his post? So now even discussing Obama or complaining how he's getting a free pass from the media is somehow wrong?



No, they enjoy doing it to annoy you. Seriously, I'm not kidding here. Since they feel that Obama's getting a free pass from his followers and from the media, they think it's fun to twist their tails. Furthermore, I think you loose all license to complain about how somebody pointed out that two out of three words he/she listed rhyme, especially when Ted Kennedy himself screwed it up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos)




As opposed to Barack Obama's supporters who, you know, http://www.webtrec.com/ebay/palin3.jpg wear t-shirts calling Sarah Palin a C***[/URL].

Now, as far as uniting people, Obama told his supporters to go get in other people's faces, in addition to doing this Orwellian crap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA&eurl=http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/is-this-1984-missouri-public-officials-join-obamas-truth-squad/)

In other words, if you plan to disagree with him, he'll force you to cooperate. Brilliant. So, according to this Truth Squad malarkey, Obama wants you arrested if you were to, say, question his judgment. "Unity" my foot.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/fail%20pix/fail-boat-showingsailboat.jpg

[H-TownLion]

Your honor, I present Exhibit A in the case of reasons conservatives hate Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”

“When you got a Negra running for president, you need a first stringer. He’s definitely a second stringer.”

“He seems like a sheep - or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to be honest with you. And I believe Palin - she’s filled with the Holy Spirit, and I believe she’s gonna bring honesty and integrity to the White House.”

“He’s related to a known terrorist, for one.”

“He is friends with a terrorist of this country!”

“He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama.”

“Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody’s still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but… I dunno, it’s just kinda… a little unnerving.”

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

“I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash… because we’re not!”

[Slim-Rob]

everyone is still missing the point.

Obama admitted to dreaming about http://smiliesftw.com/x/2girls.giffor months after he watched it

[Lights Out]

Your honor, I present Exhibit A in the case of reasons conservatives hate Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”

“When you got a Negra running for president, you need a first stringer. He’s definitely a second stringer.”

“He seems like a sheep - or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to be honest with you. And I believe Palin - she’s filled with the Holy Spirit, and I believe she’s gonna bring honesty and integrity to the White House.”

“He’s related to a known terrorist, for one.”

“He is friends with a terrorist of this country!”

“He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama.”

“Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody’s still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but… I dunno, it’s just kinda… a little unnerving.”

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

“I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash… because we’re not!”

You just described the conservatives on this board.

[CKE]

Obama already ruining America.....http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-worldseries-obama&prov=ap&type=lgns

[tayb]

You just described the conservatives on this board.

There are no conservatives on this board. There are many liberals who claim themselves to be conservatives.

[pied]

The world apologizes for its inability to accomodate you.-I am not asking for the word to do anything, simply attempting to explain why I have become disenchanted with the GOP.



Only the part of it that bitterly clings to its sky god and boomsticks. He disapproved with enough of American culture that he didn't hold his hand of his heart during the pledge, disliked it enough that he attended a church that went so far as to state that one of their religious goals was the disavowal of "middle-classness". Perhaps "despise" is a bit strong of a word, but again, hyperbole. -awesome. Back to Obama won't say the pledge.




1. Really, man? Are you really arguing that a literary allusion to an eloquent character who suddenly rocketed to the political forefront is somehow out of bounds? Really? It's like you only read the bolded parts of those posts. CHHSPantherFan went on to explain her real reasons for frustration which are legitimate.- Um when you are talking about a book based on the End Times and the character is the Anti Christ. Its a little different situation than just a literary allusion don't you think?


2. Well, you got me here. Evidently, HebronHawk forgot to properly label the sarcasm in his post.
3. What on Earth's wrong with his post? So now even discussing Obama or complaining how he's getting a free pass from the media is somehow wrong? -Probably my fault. This post was a response to Hebron Hawk's right above. It made sense tome but I see why that would be confusing. I don't think there was sarcasm involved.



No, they enjoy doing it to annoy you. Seriously, I'm not kidding here. Since they feel that Obama's getting a free pass from his followers and from the media, they think it's fun to twist their tails. Furthermore, I think you loose all license to complain about how somebody pointed out that two out of three words he/she listed rhyme, especially when Ted Kennedy himself screwed it up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos)

So them calling him Osama oops Obama is to annoy people? Really? Even whe the same people say he scares them and many, including the VP candidate associates him with terrorists?




As opposed to Barack Obama's supporters who, you know,

Now, as far as uniting people, Obama told his supporters to go get in other people's faces, in addition to doing this Orwellian crap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA&eurl=http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/is-this-1984-missouri-public-officials-join-obamas-truth-squad/)

In other words, if you plan to disagree with him, he'll force you to cooperate. Brilliant. So, according to this Truth Squad malarkey, Obama wants you arrested if you were to, say, question his judgment. "Unity" my foot.

Question his judgement or break the law?

[pied]

nm

[HUM398]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/fail%20pix/fail-boat-showingsailboat.jpg

I loved the points, they were dead on. Really shut down his line of reasoning.

GIVE ME A FREAKING BRAKE. dude, you area joke.

[pied]

Obama already ruining America.....http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-worldseries-obama&prov=ap&type=lgns

dude it's baseball.

he does support a college football playoff which we all can agree is evil.

[slorch]

Barack hussein Obama wants a college playoff?

a liberal wants to truly measure achievement with a tournament that has winners and losers?

I might reconsider my voting preferences...;):D

[tayb]

dude it's baseball.

he does support a college football playoff which we all can agree is evil.

He jumped on the Phillies band wagon... think it was a mistake... with the way people vote in America he could win Florida easily by jumping on the Tampa wagon... he's got Pennsylvania all wrapped up...

[Warbird]

Question his judgement or break the law?

Question his judgment and his policies, actually. Seeing as how you can't give a tax break to people who don't pay taxes (at this point, I believe that's around 40% of Americans), this is questioning one of his positions--and subsequently his judgment--and exposing it for the crock it is. But, rather than resort to rebutting these charges--baseless or not--Senator Obama has resorted to using Gestapo tactics to try to shut his detractors up. I suppose eliminating the First Amendment would be "Change".

I am not asking for the word to do anything, simply attempting to explain why I have become disenchanted with the GOP.

Which is, of course, your close-minded perception. You can't seem to grasp that there are nuts on both sides of the aisles.

-awesome. Back to Obama won't say the pledge.

I apologize, I was a bit confused. It seems he wasn't holding his hand over his heart during the National Anthem, either.


Um when you are talking about a book based on the End Times and the character is the Anti Christ. Its a little different situation than just a literary allusion don't you think?

No. Having read a few of the spin-off books, I can tell you that they do share some characteristics, but if you think I'm going to allow my vote and views to be influenced by a fictional book (or that I think Obama is the Anti-Christ), you insult my intelligence.

-Probably my fault. This post was a response to Hebron Hawk's right above. It made sense tome but I see why that would be confusing. I don't think there was sarcasm involved.

'Sallright. In fairness to you, sarcasm can be hard to register in writing, especially on the internet, but given how thoroughly that myth's been debunked, I think most people saying something about that at this point, with the exception of the truly stupid/uninformed, are trying to be sarcastic.

So them calling him Osama oops Obama is to annoy people? Really?

*Sigh* Yes. The only reason it's a big deal is because you're letting it get under your skin. It is his middle name, just like W. is used to refer to our current president. I'd wager nobody refers to President Bush as W. in affectionate tones.

Even whe the same people say he scares them and many, including the VP candidate associates him with terrorists?

His policies scare me, certainly, and...oh, for crying out loud (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B 63). The man has associated with an unrepentant terrorist. It's beyond me how so many people brush this over.

[GoOwls]

Wow.....I'm mortified at the total lack of an ability to answer a question as it is asked instead of reading "what you want to hear".

It's been over a week now and still no answer other than some kids popping off about things they don't understand.

Let's try one last time.......

Forget Obama and his dealings.....he's a good man, husband, and father and will be the next president....fine...it's a given....;)

What is in the thinking process behind the people who generally hate everything about this country, being so enamoured with Obama?

Don't throw out the Bush hate/fear crap like so many have....if you believe the liberals, Bush is GROWING the terrorists base with his actions....galvanizing them into a cohesive unit, if you will.....seems Bush is good for terrorism, according to the liberals....so you can't use Bush/Republicans/Conservatives as your crutch in this argument.....

What percieved benefit will the terrorists/terrorist states/terrorist organizations gain from a Barrack Obama presidency.....why are terrorists as eager for Obama to be president as you liberals on this board are.....what is the common link between you and terrorists?

Please...for the love of God.....TRY AGAIN.

[pied]

Wow.....I'm mortified at the total lack of an ability to answer a question as it is asked instead of reading "what you want to hear".

It's been over a week now and still no answer other than some kids popping off about things they don't understand.

Let's try one last time.......

Forget Obama and his dealings.....he's a good man, husband, and father and will be the next president....fine...it's a given....;)

What is in the thinking process behind the people who generally hate everything about this country, being so enamoured with Obama?

Don't throw out the Bush hate/fear crap like so many have....if you believe the liberals, Bush is GROWING the terrorists base with his actions....galvanizing them into a cohesive unit, if you will.....seems Bush is good for terrorism, according to the liberals....so you can't use Bush/Republicans/Conservatives as your crutch in this argument.....

What percieved benefit will the terrorists/terrorist states/terrorist organizations gain from a Barrack Obama presidency.....why are terrorists as eager for Obama to be president as you liberals on this board are.....what is the common link between you and terrorists?

Please...for the love of God.....TRY AGAIN.

We've answered that your premise was full of crap, we're wrong. We've answered that people tend not to like the party in power, we're wrong. We've responded that Obama's the devil, and that's wrong.

Why not just come out and say what you want to say?

If you missed it, 100,00 America haters came out to a rally right in red state territory today.

Barack Obama attracted 100,000 people at a Saturday rally here, his biggest crowd ever at a U.S. event.

The crowd assembled under the Gateway Arch on a sunny Saturday afternoon to hear Obama speak about taxes and slam the Republicans on economic issues.

Lt. Samuel Dotson of the St. Louis Police Department confirmed the number of attendees piled into the grassy lawn by the Mississippi River.

To be sure, big crowds don’t always signal a big turnout on Election Day. But Obama’s ability to draw his largest audience yet in a typically red state that just weeks ago looked out of reach, could signal a changing electoral map.

.....

Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill had harsh words for Palin when she introduced Obama on Saturday. Referring to comments Palin made earlier this week in North Carolina about “pro-America” states, McCaskill said “We have reached a new low in America politics when a candidate dares to say that one part of America is pro-America and another part is anti-America.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/18/obama-rally-draws-100000-in-missouri/?mod=googlenews_wsj

[SaRattlerFan]

We've answered that your premise was full of crap, we're wrong. We've answered that people tend not to like the party in power, we're wrong. We've responded that Obama's the devil, and that's wrong.

Why not just come out and say what you want to say?

If you missed it, 100,00 America haters came out to a rally right in red state territory today.



http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/18/obama-rally-draws-100000-in-missouri/?mod=googlenews_wsj

St Louis is a VERY LIBERAL city, so I wouldn't make much of 100,000 people showing up for a rally in that town. We are talking about the home of Dick Gephardt. I'm sure a large portion of the crowd was from across the river East St Louis (Illinois). Now if 100,000 show in a city like Salt Lake that would be news.

[d-train]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......

.....but this is the real question you should ask.....

Is Obama the moderate change agent he positions himself to be, or is he a man who, by his associations, subscribes to an arguably Marxist outlook of the dismantling of our democracy/republic?

This is not from the point of who Obama likes, but WHO LIKES HIM AND WHY.

Bill Ayers and Acorn represent a far left view of America......they love Obama....WHY?

Hugo Chavez...the America Hater....loves Obama.....WHY?

The leadership of Iran....openly anti-American...loves Obama.....WHY?

Hammas and their leadership....the violent terrorist organization.....loves Obama.....WHY?

I could go on and on.......

WHY DO PEOPLE, TERRORISTS, AND COUNTRIES THAT HATE AMERICA LOVE BARRACK OBAMA?

So let's just forget about who Obama likes and focus on why certain people like him...it sheds a bit of illumination as to why some people dont' trust him with our country....not that I trust McCain with it either.....but I have real concerns about a guy with so many people who hate America loving him so much.

If they like him...could it be they think their almost Marxist ideologies will be more closely represented by him than we know about....

Just maybe they know something about the man that we don't....and that is what scares me to death....:(

JMHO
Common sense questions. America has had an education system from the 70's that has fostered anti-American sentiments. The chickens are coming home to roost, when a campaign, basically funded by foreign donations elects a Manchurian Candidate!

[the_phoenix612]

http://barackbar.com/img/barackbar.jpg

[HUM398]

Your honor, I present Exhibit A in the case of reasons conservatives hate Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”

“When you got a Negra running for president, you need a first stringer. He’s definitely a second stringer.”

“He seems like a sheep - or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to be honest with you. And I believe Palin - she’s filled with the Holy Spirit, and I believe she’s gonna bring honesty and integrity to the White House.”

“He’s related to a known terrorist, for one.”

“He is friends with a terrorist of this country!”

“He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama.”

“Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody’s still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but… I dunno, it’s just kinda… a little unnerving.”

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

“I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash… because we’re not!”

painting people as bigots doesn't help present the liberal case.

especially when no such evidence is found by the very party that lead for equality for all people.

[H-TownLion]

painting people as bigots doesn't help present the liberal case.

especially when no such evidence is found by the very party that lead for equality for all people.

But it's not a shining example of the GOP being a "big tent" party neither...

That's not painting people, that was at an actual Palin rally. They said it from their own mouths. You watch the clip?

And name or post an example of any bigotry at an Obama/Biden rally....

[H-TownLion]

Wow.....I'm mortified at the total lack of an ability to answer a question as it is asked instead of reading "what you want to hear".

It's been over a week now and still no answer other than some kids popping off about things they don't understand.

Let's try one last time.......

Forget Obama and his dealings.....he's a good man, husband, and father and will be the next president....fine...it's a given....;)

What is in the thinking process behind the people who generally hate everything about this country, being so enamoured with Obama?

Don't throw out the Bush hate/fear crap like so many have....if you believe the liberals, Bush is GROWING the terrorists base with his actions....galvanizing them into a cohesive unit, if you will.....seems Bush is good for terrorism, according to the liberals....so you can't use Bush/Republicans/Conservatives as your crutch in this argument.....

What percieved benefit will the terrorists/terrorist states/terrorist organizations gain from a Barrack Obama presidency.....why are terrorists as eager for Obama to be president as you liberals on this board are.....what is the common link between you and terrorists?

Please...for the love of God.....TRY AGAIN.

So does Gen. Powell hate America now? :p

[d-train]

So does Gen. Powell hate America now? :p
He loves the NWO!

[RidgePride]

To this point, we have mostly discussed who Obama knows, who he likes, who he admires, who he worked for, who he uses for his advisors, who he associates with.....etc.......we've focused on Obama's actions.....he's denied that any of these thing are pertinent to his ability to be president...he may be right......

.....but this is the real question you should ask.....

Is Obama the moderate change agent he positions himself to be, or is he a man who, by his associations, subscribes to an arguably Marxist outlook of the dismantling of our democracy/republic?

This is not from the point of who Obama likes, but WHO LIKES HIM AND WHY.

Bill Ayers and Acorn represent a far left view of America......they love Obama....WHY?

Hugo Chavez...the America Hater....loves Obama.....WHY?

The leadership of Iran....openly anti-American...loves Obama.....WHY?

Hammas and their leadership....the violent terrorist organization.....loves Obama.....WHY?

I could go on and on.......

WHY DO PEOPLE, TERRORISTS, AND COUNTRIES THAT HATE AMERICA LOVE BARRACK OBAMA?

So let's just forget about who Obama likes and focus on why certain people like him...it sheds a bit of illumination as to why some people dont' trust him with our country....not that I trust McCain with it either.....but I have real concerns about a guy with so many people who hate America loving him so much.

If they like him...could it be they think their almost Marxist ideologies will be more closely represented by him than we know about....

Just maybe they know something about the man that we don't....and that is what scares me to death....:(

JMHO

Well since you dismissed everyones answer and refuse to accept anything, Why even start this thread.


Here is my answer and I'm sure you will like it:

It's because Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim Terrorist secretly plotting to destroy America.


We should all fear this man.

Happy now? :notworthy

[GoOwls]

Well since you dismissed everyones answer and refuse to accept anything, Why even start this thread.


Here is my answer and I'm sure you will like it:

It's because Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim Terrorist secretly plotting to destroy America.

We should all fear this man.

Happy now? :notworthy

This is exactly the crap I'm talking about...if you don't have an answer or can't formulate one due to ignorance, people just fire off snappy comments meant to belittle the original poser that they have no idea how to answer.....please....try again....and if you don't know crap.....try another thread.....there are plenty of them here for mindless opinions.........;)

d-train, though you may not agree with him, at least put forth a thoughtful answer based on some facts.....others would be welcome.

[chhspantherfan]

This is exactly the crap I'm talking about...if you don't have an answer or can't formulate one due to ignorance, people just fire off snappy comments meant to belittle the original poser that they have no idea how to answer.....please....try again....and if you don't know crap.....try another thread.....there are plenty of them here for mindless opinions.........;)

d-train, though you may not agree with him, at least put forth a thoughtful answer based on some facts.....others would be welcome.

how in the world can you have so much hate at 5:36 in the morning? Don't you know, all we need is love? ;)

[JMSFan]

Obama is not a terrorist, but he is a puppet, and has whored himself out to the people who hate America, because they seem to be the ones who are funding most of his campaign. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[pied]

This is exactly the crap I'm talking about...if you don't have an answer or can't formulate one due to ignorance, people just fire off snappy comments meant to belittle the original poser that they have no idea how to answer.....please....try again....and if you don't know crap.....try another thread.....there are plenty of them here for mindless opinions.........;)

d-train, though you may not agree with him, at least put forth a thoughtful answer based on some facts.....others would be welcome.

There have been many responses backed with facts, unlike I would add the original post.

The problem is that those weren't the answers you were looking for. What it appears to be is that BO is being set up by a world govt. and duping nearly everyone in this country.

[chhspantherfan]

There have been many responses backed with facts, unlike I would add the original post.

The problem is that those weren't the answers you were looking for. What it appears to be is that BO is being set up by a world govt. and duping nearly everyone in this country.

Do you really believe that or did you forget your sarcasm icon?

[RidgePride]

There have been many responses backed with facts, unlike I would add the original post.

The problem is that those weren't the answers you were looking for. What it appears to be is that BO is being set up by a world govt. and duping nearly everyone in this country.

zactly - He doesn't seem to get that. Whenever you post any type of answer with facts, he dismisses them without actually providing any evidence against it.

He just responds with some ignorant post like "Leave the leftist psycho babble out of this." Or "Your response is rhetoric try again."

How can you have any type of real debate with answers like that?

So - I told him what he wanted to hear and he still does not like it.

Its a sad thing when SaRattlefan and GoOWLS do not realize that they THE IGNORAMUS.

[GoOwls]

zactly - He doesn't seem to get that. Whenever you post any type of answer with facts, he dismisses them without actually providing any evidence against it.

He just responds with some ignorant post like "Leave the leftist psycho babble out of this." Or "Your response is rhetoric try again."

How can you have any type of real debate with answers like that?

So - I told him what he wanted to hear and he still does not like it.

Its a sad thing when SaRattlefan and GoOWLS do not realize that they are THE IGNORAMUS's.

The problem is that......

YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE QUESTION

When I read the responses, I can tell that either the reader does not understand my question, or can not understand my question, or doesn't have the capability to to answer my question.

TRY.....AGAIN.

BTW, FIFY above.....;)

Pretty gutsy calling someone an ignoramus in a sentence with so many errors.

[pied]

Do you really believe that or did you forget your sarcasm icon?

I don't use smileys. Gets me in trouble from time to time though.

No I do not think BO is a Manchurain Candidate.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

I wonder what the political-convo will be like once Barrack Obama is elected the next President of the United States?? Will there be another 25 political threads or just the mature resolution that he is in fact the President... deal with it??

My God, a sensible person can only imagine how much religion, race, gender and politics have handicapped the potential of human beings, for centuries. If there is truly a God, he or she (or it) has got to be saying, "Gheesz, I created a bunch of morons!":rolleyes:

[pied]

What about the supporters of AQ? yikes


In a message broadcast on the password-protected al-Hesbah site, the group said they would also welcome a pre-election terror attack on the US because that would make a McCain win more likely.

In an endorsement that will not be welcomed by Mr McCain's flagging campaign, the group said that if al-Qaeda wants to exhaust the USmilitarily and economically, the "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate is the better choice.

"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said.

"Then, al-Qaeda will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/3238578/John-McCain-endorsed-by-al-Qaeda-supporters.html

[HUM398]

I wonder what the political-convo will be like once Barrack Obama is elected the next President of the United States?? Will there be another 25 political threads or just the mature resolution that he is in fact the President... deal with it??

My God, a sensible person can only imagine how much religion, race, gender and politics have handicapped the potential of human beings, for centuries. If there is truly a God, he or she (or it) has got to be saying, "Gheesz, I created a bunch of morons!":rolleyes:

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration?

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal?

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here?

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?


these are all questions i want to know....

[pied]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?-I think media bias is over rated.

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)-no

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?-I like to think I only argue facts, but many would probably disagree. I'd point out they rarely do so w/facts.

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?-Yes

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration?-Yes

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal?-No

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here?-One of the reasons I am thinking of defecting.

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?-Labels aren't important to me. I like McCain a great deal and agree w/many if not a majority of his stances.


these are all questions i want to know....

I think when we look at many of the real issues that Liberals/Conservatives are much closer than they would like to admit. We have a culture now that the other guy can't be right.

[chhspantherfan]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration? yes, now there is a RINO for you

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal? no, social services should be provided through 501(c)3 entities

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here? http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?p=940392#post940392 post #74

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative? that is correct see above post


these are all questions i want to know....


see RED above

[HUM398]

I think when we look at many of the real issues that Liberals/Conservatives are much closer than they would like to admit. We have a culture now that the other guy can't be right.

Ill be the first to admit, i hate liberal policies...nothing annoys me more then the argument that Taxing Big Buisness more and giving 95% of americans (of which nearly 50% don't pay taxes) a tax cut will help our Economy. I think it is stupid to assume that any Company would be honest or in reality stupid enough to take a hit personally, and not shed the cost to consumers....Really its mind "bottling". Either Obama doesn't get it, or he thinks the American people are really stupid...either way it makes me want to punch him in the face.

Its sad that neither side will admit when they are wrong. Bush has been wrong for these last 4 years on a variety of issues, and the party line is more important to some Republicans then the American people...so they stick with him. The Liberals have been wrong on a vareity of issues, and yet...they just blame someone else.

I am personally tired of washington, and believe that their should be a limit on consecutive terms a Congress or Sentor can serve....it would slove a lot of problems for us. It would reduce the corrupt mind set that exisits in these Politicans for life.

[drgnbkr]

Ill be the first to admit, i hate liberal policies...nothing annoys me more then the argument that Taxing Big Buisness more and giving 95% of americans (of which nearly 50% don't pay taxes) a tax cut will help our Economy. I think it is stupid to assume that any Company would be honest or in reality stupid enough to take a hit personally, and not shed the cost to consumers....Really its mind "bottling". Either Obama doesn't get it, or he thinks the American people are really stupid...either way it makes me want to punch him in the face.

Its sad that neither side will admit when they are wrong. Bush has been wrong for these last 4 years on a variety of issues, and the party line is more important to some Republicans then the American people...so they stick with him. The Liberals have been wrong on a vareity of issues, and yet...they just blame someone else.

I am personally tired of washington, and believe that their should be a limit on consecutive terms a Congress or Sentor can serve....it would slove a lot of problems for us. It would reduce the corrupt mind set that exisits in these Politicans for life.

All you need to do is look at Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy to see the need for term limits. There are many more examples on both sides, but these two are poster boy's.

[pied]

HUM398-I don't disagree with you I think. The more I examine some of the issues the more I see little net difference. Most of the numbers are thrown out there and are researched little.

The 95% number being an obvious one. 95% of what exactly?

To your point(I think) though we don't focus on McCain's 95% number regarding his healthcare proposal.

Now, 95 percent of the people in America will receive more money under my plan because they will receive not only their present benefits, which may be taxed, which will be taxed, but then you add $5,000 onto it, except for those people who have the gold-plated Cadillac insurance policies that have to do with cosmetic surgery and transplants and all of those kinds of things.

95% of Americans aren't tax payers, right? How can they get a tax credit?



As far as taxing large corporations, certainly it will be a cost they will pass onto the consumer as much as they can. Most understand that a one to one price increase compared to the tax increase will likely reduce revenue past the point of feasability, so the net is not 100%.

The Republicans demonize that on one hand, yet trumpet that as what Palin did in Alaska. She took on big oil companies, right? Who paid more at the pump?

[Alurista]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?


1) There is no media bias, it is all a figment of your imagination. You expect to receive the news in a specific manner, and when you don't you claim bias. The "product" does not match your expectations.

2) No. If no one pays taxes though, how will our transportation system, educational system etc be funded? Someone has to pay for that, just like someone is paying for the war, right?:)

3) Facts? I don't believe in facts, especially if they are taken and made to resemble an opinion more than a fact. People twist "facts" to try and prove their point, or they take a "fact" and make giant leaps of faith/reason to form their arguments.

4) All government sucks, period. Team donkey and Team elephant are no different.

[drgnbkr]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)
these are all questions i want to know....


1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration? Both McCain and Bush have tried so hard to reach across the aisle, that they have been yanked to the other side. Neither is a conservative.

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal? Socialism is an historic failure 100% of the time, wherever it has been tried. I don't care who tries it, it will fail.

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here? It took Jimmy Carter to make us see how bad a president can really be...maybe we need a reminder in the form of Obama.

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?

See above- no.

[katyfan52]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant? I don't see the problem with the msm being the presence of a left or right bias, but rather a bias against any other view other than our own being presented in any great depth. A chauvanistic bias if you will against looking at ourselves too closely.

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country) Compared to what? Right now Obama is being accused of being a socialist for suggesting we adjust the tax rates back to preBush levels. If that is your definition of socialism, maybe so. By a strict definition of socialism, no. I think the success or failure of the free market system will be determined by the ability of those participating in it to police themselves and not be overcome by their own greed.
3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts? No. :)

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks? I will if you will.;)

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration?

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal?

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here?

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?


these are all questions i want to know....
:)

[RidgePride]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration?

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal?

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here?

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?


these are all questions i want to know....

I agree with you whole heartedly. I find myself having to battle ignorance more than not; I am glad Katy responded to this because it was just plain sickening the way some people demonize the candidates.I would like to have a civil debate about ideology but it seems others are more interested in proving Obama to be a terrorist.

I am on the fence in this election because I think Bush has us in the wrong direction, and McCain may be more of the same. (I think that is a legit reason for concern). I voted for Bush but now I certainly think he should have been a one term president.

On the other hand

I do not like super Liberals - Tax and spend -Anything goes Wishy Washy etc.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle in my opinion. Ultra conservatives are way too restrictive and Super Libs are way too Lenient

[vtwinwilly]

...Now, as far as uniting people, Obama told his supporters to go get in other people's faces, in addition to doing this Orwellian crap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA&eurl=http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/is-this-1984-missouri-public-officials-join-obamas-truth-squad/)

In other words, if you plan to disagree with him, he'll force you to cooperate. Brilliant. So, according to this Truth Squad malarkey, Obama wants you arrested if you were to, say, question his judgment. "Unity" my foot.
WOW!... I know I'm a few days late to this thread, but this i amazing!

Isn't this what the Gestapo used to do?

[HUM398]

I agree with you whole heartedly. I find myself having to battle ignorance more than not; I am glad Katy responded to this because it was just plain sickening the way some people demonize the candidates.I would like to have a civil debate about ideology but it seems others are more interested in proving Obama to be a terrorist.

I am on the fence in this election because I think Bush has us in the wrong direction, and McCain may be more of the same. I voted for Bush but now I certainly think he should have been a one term president.

On the other hand

I do not like super Liberals - Tax and spend -Anything goes Wishy Washy etc.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle in my opinion. Ultra conservatives are way too restrictive and Super Libs are way too Lenient

Demonizing of candidates has been something both sides have done. Liberals have a tendency to cry about demonizing before it actually has even occurred...or even put words in the mouths of people. For Example, i thought that Powell's accusation that McCain was insinuating that Obama was Terrorist was factually inaccurate, and a distortion of his actual stance. Do i think it was done on purpose, no....but i think those that lean left have really sensitive feelings.

I personally have these problems with Obama:

1. He is Inexperienced, and perhaps the least ready to assume the office of president. Not because he is black, or liberal...But because he has only been a U.S Sen. for 2 years....and his record has indicated practically nothing that will translate into the office. When Liberals attempt to say "he reps. in a district with more people then the entire state of Alaska, that makes him more qualified to be President then Palin"....it just makes me laugh, because that logic is utterly stupid to be quite frank.

2. His policies like most liberal policies to me go against what i personally believe to be the fundamentals of our Capitalist market. I have never been in favor of Increasing Taxes on anyone...i am personally an advocate for a fair tax...you want fair, it doesn't get any better then that. This whole raising taxes of Corporations is stupid, because it will result in the attempt of Businesses to pass on the bill to the consumer...So who in essence is paying more taxes now? Me. And that sucks :Censor:

3. His Foreign policy is freighting to be honest. Well at least IMO. and Biden's comments due concern me, because even that moron recognizes that the world will attempt to GENERATE a conflict to see how far they can push the US for 4 years.

4. I don't really have a clear understanding of his Immigration policy...not that i care, because McCains sucks as well.

5. Its just not a good time for him to be president. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable with him being in office if it weren't for our current state. We need a reduction in Government, not an increase. Programs HAVE to be cut, and the Government has to see its way out of our pockets. It will be a tough 4-6 years if just some of his policies go through.

6. He is a socialist by definition in what he wants to accomplish....then agian, so is John McCain to a degree. I personally wish someone with Alan Keyes way of thinking on Government spending was running....because that is what we really need.

[Firebird]

Demonizing of candidates has been something both sides have done. Liberals have a tendency to cry about demonizing before it actually has even occurred...or even put words in the mouths of people. For Example, i thought that Powell's accusation that McCain was insinuating that Obama was Terrorist was factually inaccurate, and a distortion of his actual stance. Do i think it was done on purpose, no....but i think those that lean left have really sensitive feelings.

I personally have these problems with Obama:

1. He is Inexperienced, and perhaps the least ready to assume the office of president. Not because he is black, or liberal...But because he has only been a U.S Sen. for 2 years....and his record has indicated practically nothing that will translate into the office. When Liberals attempt to say "he reps. in a district with more people then the entire state of Alaska, that makes him more qualified to be President then Palin"....it just makes me laugh, because that logic is utterly stupid to be quite frank.

2. His policies like most liberal policies to me go against what i personally believe to be the fundamentals of our Capitalist market. I have never been in favor of Increasing Taxes on anyone...i am personally an advocate for a fair tax...you want fair, it doesn't get any better then that. This whole raising taxes of Corporations is stupid, because it will result in the attempt of Businesses to pass on the bill to the consumer...So who in essence is paying more taxes now? Me. And that sucks :Censor:

3. His Foreign policy is freighting to be honest. Well at least IMO. and Biden's comments due concern me, because even that moron recognizes that the world will attempt to GENERATE a conflict to see how far they can push the US for 4 years.

4. I don't really have a clear understanding of his Immigration policy...not that i care, because McCains sucks as well.

5. Its just not a good time for him to be president. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable with him being in office if it weren't for our current state. We need a reduction in Government, not an increase. Programs HAVE to be cut, and the Government has to see its way out of our pockets. It will be a tough 4-6 years if just some of his policies go through.

6. He is a socialist by definition in what he wants to accomplish....then agian, so is John McCain to a degree. I personally wish someone with Alan Keyes way of thinking on Government spending was running....because that is what we really need.

Obama's Foreign Policy:

http://www.gonomad.com/transports/images/freighter.jpg

[JMSFan]

Obama's economic policy.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s134/p-nut_015/brown.jpg

[vtwinwilly]

...I personally have these problems with Obama:


5. Its just not a good time for him to be president. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable with him being in office if it weren't for our current state. We need a reduction in Government, not an increase. Programs HAVE to be cut, and the Government has to see its way out of our pockets. It will be a tough 4-6 years if just some of his policies go through.
...
Just went and cast my early vote.

For the reason you listed above, I could not, and would not vote for Obama. I don't think he's a bad guy, or a terrorist, or anything like that. I just think his solution to many problems is "More Governement."

I'm a small government guy... so I voted accordingly.

[the_phoenix612]

This biggest problems with these threads is that both sides are unsuprisingly arrogant.

I have a couple of questions for my side as well as the liberal side...

Liberal Questions:

1. Do you as a liberal recognize the media bias leaning toward the left, and a double standarded is prevelant?There are networks that show a leftward leaning slant, yes. A double standard, however, has been statistically disproven.

2. Are you in favor of socialisim? (this is a striaght foward question, don't dodge it by giving me examples of "conservative":rolleyes: policies that are practically socialism....i want to know IF you support a socailist reform in this country)Full-bore socialism, no. But I do think we should have social programs and I do think that the portion of the country with 95% of the wealth should pay more than 38% of the taxes. And I'm from southlake...

3.Do you admit that you are going to argue a point regardless if it doesn't match up with facts?I never do that. If proven wrong, I admit it, but if I have facts to back me up, I'll fight whatever you throw at me.

4. Do you admit that your Democrat led Congress sucks?Yes, Yes, Yes, a million times yes. Those spineless sacks of **** would be better used as fertilizer than as senators.

Conservatives (i would like to point out that it is easier to be a Liberal then a conservative, so this is questions for people that believe themselves to be Conservative)

1. Do you as a Conservative recognize that their HAS been major mismanagment by this supposed Conservative administration?

2. Are you in fact in favor of Socialistic programs as long as its not coming from a Liberal?

3. Do you admit that you blow things WAY out of proportion when declaring the end of the world is coming with the election of Barack Obama, ignoring the fact that we have had bad presidents before...in bad economic times...and to your own suprise we are still here?

4. Do you admit that John McCain ISN'T a Conservative?


these are all questions i want to know....

answered.

[the_phoenix612]

I agree with you whole heartedly. I find myself having to battle ignorance more than not; I am glad Katy responded to this because it was just plain sickening the way some people demonize the candidates.I would like to have a civil debate about ideology but it seems others are more interested in proving Obama to be a terrorist.

I am on the fence in this election because I think Bush has us in the wrong direction, and McCain may be more of the same. (I think that is a legit reason for concern). I voted for Bush but now I certainly think he should have been a one term president.

On the other hand

I do not like super Liberals - Tax and spend -Anything goes Wishy Washy etc.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle in my opinion. Ultra conservatives are way too restrictive and Super Libs are way too Lenient

something tells me PMs are the only way to be civilized in the yard :ninja:

[the_phoenix612]

Demonizing of candidates has been something both sides have done. Liberals have a tendency to cry about demonizing before it actually has even occurred...or even put words in the mouths of people. For Example, i thought that Powell's accusation that McCain was insinuating that Obama was Terrorist was factually inaccurate, and a distortion of his actual stance. Do i think it was done on purpose, no....but i think those that lean left have really sensitive feelings.

I personally have these problems with Obama:

1. He is Inexperienced, and perhaps the least ready to assume the office of president. Not because he is black, or liberal...But because he has only been a U.S Sen. for 2 years....and his record has indicated practically nothing that will translate into the office. When Liberals attempt to say "he reps. in a district with more people then the entire state of Alaska, that makes him more qualified to be President then Palin"....it just makes me laugh, because that logic is utterly stupid to be quite frank. I made that point not to support BO, but to attack SP for her lack of experience, and people overblowing the significance of what she has done. Watch THIS (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=188638&title=Understanding-Real-America-in-Wasilla)interview with the current Mayor of Wasilla.

2. His policies like most liberal policies to me go against what i personally believe to be the fundamentals of our Capitalist market. I have never been in favor of Increasing Taxes on anyone...i am personally an advocate for a fair tax...you want fair, it doesn't get any better then that. This whole raising taxes of Corporations is stupid, because it will result in the attempt of Businesses to pass on the bill to the consumer...So who in essence is paying more taxes now? Me. And that sucks :Censor:So do you think that continuing the tax breaks we've had over the last 8 years are the best way to get us out of this current mess that many experts attribute from that same deregulation and tax cuts?

3. His Foreign policy is freighting to be honest. Well at least IMO. and Biden's comments due concern me, because even that moron recognizes that the world will attempt to GENERATE a conflict to see how far they can push the US for 4 years.I fail to see how negotiating with our enemies is a bad thing. IMO, our job is NOT to be the world's police. We can all agree that certain regimes around the world are bad, maybe even evil, but what gives us the right to invade their sovereign country and fell their governments?

4. I don't really have a clear understanding of his Immigration policy...not that i care, because McCains sucks as well.can't really refute this one.

5. Its just not a good time for him to be president. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable with him being in office if it weren't for our current state. We need a reduction in Government, not an increase. Programs HAVE to be cut, and the Government has to see its way out of our pockets. It will be a tough 4-6 years if just some of his policies go through.Hmm, I seem to recall the last Huge depression in this country being overcome through...what was it called?....the New Deal? Something about massive governmental infrastructure programs?

6. He is a socialist by definition in what he wants to accomplish....then agian, so is John McCain to a degree. I personally wish someone with Alan Keyes way of thinking on Government spending was running....because that is what we really need.I am very confused on this issue. I sympathize with both ideologies in terms of fiscal policy, but I can't see how letting things run wild right now is a good thing.

bold.

[RidgePride]

Demonizing of candidates has been something both sides have done. Liberals have a tendency to cry about demonizing before it actually has even occurred...or even put words in the mouths of people. For Example, i thought that Powell's accusation that McCain was insinuating that Obama was Terrorist was factually inaccurate, and a distortion of his actual stance. Do i think it was done on purpose, no....but i think those that lean left have really sensitive feelings.

I personally have these problems with Obama:

1. He is Inexperienced, and perhaps the least ready to assume the office of president. Not because he is black, or liberal...But because he has only been a U.S Sen. for 2 years....and his record has indicated practically nothing that will translate into the office. When Liberals attempt to say "he reps. in a district with more people then the entire state of Alaska, that makes him more qualified to be President then Palin"....it just makes me laugh, because that logic is utterly stupid to be quite frank.

2. His policies like most liberal policies to me go against what i personally believe to be the fundamentals of our Capitalist market. I have never been in favor of Increasing Taxes on anyone...i am personally an advocate for a fair tax...you want fair, it doesn't get any better then that. This whole raising taxes of Corporations is stupid, because it will result in the attempt of Businesses to pass on the bill to the consumer...So who in essence is paying more taxes now? Me. And that sucks :Censor:

3. His Foreign policy is freighting to be honest. Well at least IMO. and Biden's comments due concern me, because even that moron recognizes that the world will attempt to GENERATE a conflict to see how far they can push the US for 4 years.

4. I don't really have a clear understanding of his Immigration policy...not that i care, because McCains sucks as well.

5. Its just not a good time for him to be president. I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable with him being in office if it weren't for our current state. We need a reduction in Government, not an increase. Programs HAVE to be cut, and the Government has to see its way out of our pockets. It will be a tough 4-6 years if just some of his policies go through.

6. He is a socialist by definition in what he wants to accomplish....then agian, so is John McCain to a degree. I personally wish someone with Alan Keyes way of thinking on Government spending was running....because that is what we really need.

I think your concerns are completely legitimate. I agree with your points 1,2 and part of 5. Those issues concern me too. He is very inexperienced -

I also do not like his associations with Rev Wright. I don't think you stay in a church for 20 years with someone who spouts a lot of hatred.

I question his judgement on the Rev Wright issue, but I do think Obama is a decent person and family man.


The things that bother me about McCain is that he seems to carry Bush's policy and the Bush thing has run its course.
Also the Palin choice was just stupid. It seems like he did it just for the purpose of picking up Hillary voters. The VP choice should be about credentials not a ploy.