Best Cinderella of all Time!

[maverick#23]

Best Cinderella of all Time!

No doubt it was the '84 Beaumont French team that finished 6-4 in a three way tie for second in their district. They like the '88 Permian team of "FNL" fame advanced to the playoffs on a coin flip. They cruised through the greater Houston area and region 3 bracket. In region 4 San Antonio Madison avenged their only loss of the season by beating the defending state champs, Converse Judson in the R4 final. During the week before the semi finals the whole state was talking about the presumed state final between Odessa Permian (14-0) and San Antonio Madison (13-1). Beaumont French felt disrespected and beat a Madison team that produced twelve division 1 college scholarship players and three NCAA All-Americans at Kyle field by a score of 13-9. The next week they would earn the Panthers respect by tieing them 21-21 in the State Final. Permian would officially win on penetrations 4-3. Beaumont French High School would be demolished less than two years later with those juniors on that state finalist team being their last graduating class in school history.

[dragonsdaddy]

No doubt it was the '84 Beaumont French team that finished 6-4 in a three way tie for second in their district. They like the '88 Permian team of "FNL" fame advanced to the playoffs on a coin flip. They cruised through the greater Houston area and region 3 bracket. In region 4 San Antonio Madison avenged their only loss of the season by beating the defending state champs, Converse Judson in the R4 final. During the week before the semi finals the whole state was talking about the presumed state final between Odessa Permian (14-0) and San Antonio Madison (13-1). Beaumont French felt disrespected and beat a Madison team that produced twelve division 1 college scholarship players and three NCAA All-Americans at Kyle field by a score of 13-9. The next week they would earn the Panthers respect by tieing them 21-21 in the State Final. Permian would officially win on penetrations 4-3. Beaumont French High School would be demolished less than two years later with those juniors on that state finalist team being their last graduating class in school history.
i'm certain that the official records show that both were co-champions. state championships, unlike earlier games in both po's and reg season weren't determined by statistics. was this the team that included hebert, and started off 1-4 before getting the racial things straightened out? that would have made a great movie too.

[AZTiger]

i've got no argument with mav's choice

[dragonfootballfan]

I think that the thread may be a little misleading. Is it the best team that was a cinderella or is the the best story?

I don't think that you can overlook the story of having Smithson Valley vs. Carroll in the state final of 2002. No matter which team won, it would be the first time ever for a team to move up into 5A and win a championship. Both teams were doubted all year and were underdogs in almost all the games that they played. The week before the championship, both teams defeated perrennial powers as Carroll defeated the defending state champion Lufkin and Smithson Valley defeated the champion of two years prior in Katy.

[maverick#23]

i'm certain that the official recrods show that both were co-champions. state championships, unlike earlier games in both po's and reg season weren't determined by statistics.

Before 1995 there was no overtime rule in NCAA/High School Football. In UIL playoffs the tiebreaker for advancement were first penetrations, second first downs, and third offensive yardage. Now, I never heard of any games going to the third tie-breaker, but I played in one that almost did. In the 1990 regional round, San Antonio Madison and San Antonio Sam Houston were tied 35-35 and tied on penetrations 5-5 and first downs 27-27. We (Madison) had the ball with less than ten seconds on the clock. We had been informed of the tiebreaking rules and new we needed one more first down to move on. We ran a screen left to our RB John Wallace who caught the ball with a wall of blockers in front of him. He ran the ball about twenty yards down field before he was tackled. The clock expired and we celebrated a first down like no other team probably has. We advanced to the State Quarterfinals 35-35/5-5/28-27 on first downs. It is a fact!

[AZTiger]

God make me vomit...that's not the best story, not even close. SV skirted the enrollment limit for a couple years. they were always like less than 10 students under the cutoff. SLC was always good. FAR from "cinderella."

[dragonfootballfan]

Before 1995 there was no overtime rule in NCAA/High School Football. In UIL playoffs the tiebreaker for advancement were first penetrations, second first downs, and third offensive yardage. Now, I never heard of any games going to the third tie-breaker, but I played in one that almost did. In the 1990 regional round, San Antonio Madison and San Antonio Sam Houston were tied 35-35 and tied on penetrations 5-5 and first downs 27-27. We (Madison) had the ball with less than ten seconds on the clock. We had been informed of the tiebreaking rules and new we needed one more first down to move on. We ran a screen left to our RB John Wallace who caught the ball with a wall of blockers in front of him. He ran the ball about twenty yards down field before he was tackled. The clock expired and we celebrated a first down like no other team probably has. We advanced to the State Quarterfinals 35-35/5-5/28-27 on first downs. It is a fact!
State championships did not have tie breakers. Both teams were just named state champions

[farmerfan]

God make me vomit...that's not the best story, not even close. SV skirted the enrollment limit for a couple years. they were always like less than 10 students under the cutoff. SLC was always good. FAR from "cinderella."

Plano 1994. Beat a very good Permian team in Odessa, they were a 3 loss team and finished 3rd in their district. No one expected them to win a state title and they did by beating Katy.

[AZTiger]

that 1994 Final was made of two cinderella teams then, because it was certainly a surprise we were there. I forgot Plano had 3 losses going in. They were salty (damn Scooter Asel)

[maverick#23]

Also the Austin Westlake team that Drew Breeze led to a state title in either '95 or '96 advanced to the area round after tieing San Antonio Madison 28-28 but winning on penetrations 5-4. I heard Drew Breeze talk about this a couple of years ago on National television as the only blemish on his high school career. I don't know why he hasn't gotten over it, you would think he would have left that mere nothing in the past!

[dragonfootballfan]

God make me vomit...that's not the best story, not even close. SV skirted the enrollment limit for a couple years. they were always like less than 10 students under the cutoff. SLC was always good. FAR from "cinderella."
Nobody gave either team a chance going into the season. I know that people said that it would be a good year for Carroll if they went 5-5 and might be able to sneak into the playoffs.

[Oiler1]

Best Cinderella of all Time!

No doubt it was the '84 Beaumont French team that finished 6-4 in a three way tie for second in their district. They like the '88 Permian team of "FNL" fame advanced to the playoffs on a coin flip. They cruised through the greater Houston area and region 3 bracket. In region 4 San Antonio Madison avenged their only loss of the season by beating the defending state champs, Converse Judson in the R4 final. During the week before the semi finals the whole state was talking about the presumed state final between Odessa Permian (14-0) and San Antonio Madison (13-1). Beaumont French felt disrespected and beat a Madison team that produced twelve division 1 college scholarship players and three NCAA All-Americans at Kyle field by a score of 13-9. The next week they would earn the Panthers respect by tieing them 21-21 in the State Final. Permian would officially win on penetrations 4-3. Beaumont French High School would be demolished less than two years later with those juniors on that state finalist team being their last graduating class in school history.

Without a doubt this is the all time Cinderella team for Texas. They beat a loaded Galveston Ball team in the dome that was picked to win by 30 on that run to state. The G'ball Team had Kimble Anders a 1st team all state running back who eventually ran the ball for the Kansas City Chiefs for years. I served in the Marines with the center from that team and they beat all the odds. They were terribly undersized overachievers and the school no longer exists.

[AZTiger]

well they were certainly misunderstanding the overrating of enrollment numbers.

i guarantee lamarque could move up to 5A and compete with ease. i didnt pay much attention to anyone other than katy back when yall and SV moved up, but i would have known better to discredit success at the 4A level, especially since both schools were borderline 4A anyhow

[maverick#23]

State championships did not have tie breakers. Both teams were just named state champions

See Below from this site! Permian is the official '84 state champion!

Year State Championship
1989 Odessa Permian 28 Aldine 14
1988 Converse Judson 1 Dallas Carter 0*
1987 Plano 28 SB Stratford 21
1986 Plano 24 La Marque 7
1985 Houston Yates 37 Odessa Permian 0
1984 Odessa Permian 21 Beaumont French 21*
1983 Converse Judson 25 Midland Lee 21
1982 Beaumont West Brook 21 Hurst Bell 10
1981 Lake Highlands 19 Houston Yates 6
1980 Odessa Permian 28 PA Jefferson 19



* Carter was forced to forfeit 31-14 victory over Judson in 88 for eligibility rules violations.
* Permian won tie break

[dragonfootballfan]

well they were certainly misunderstanding the overrating of enrollment numbers.

i guarantee lamarque could move up to 5A and compete with ease. i didnt pay much attention to anyone other than katy back when yall and SV moved up, but i would have known better to discredit success at the 4A level, especially since both schools were borderline 4A anyhow
you would have been right there with the rest of the haters. You would have said comments like, "You're playing with the big boys now" Or "This isn't 4A" Or "its ok you will do better when you learn the speed of 5A football" or "You have not seen football like this in 4A" or "It's a totally different game. You will be mediocre at best." You can't say what you would have said.

[AZTiger]

Whatever buddy, think what you want to help your argument. I watched many SV games in college (I graduated in May 2002) and my old college roommate is now a coach there. It was apparent then that despite being 4A, they had the coaching and ability to compete at the 5A level. I had watched lots of SA area football back then since I went to Texas Lutheran in Seguin, as well as watching many Katy games as well. I hadn't seen SLC, but with the proven winning record they had at every level they'd played, there was no reason to expect them to struggle mightily. Enrollment figures are garbage. Most intelligent football fans know that it's got less to do with talent and more to do with good preparation and great coaching, and certainly SLC and SV have both of that, with talent to boot.

But go ahead, tell me what I would have thought to help your story. I can handle most of the SLC fans here, but you're just another one of those who think that SLC has a place in every discussion. Yeah, BIG Cinderella in 2002...whatever, nowhere close to the original story posted in the first post in this thread.

[dragonsdaddy]

permian can claim what they want on their own web site, but tain't so. co-champions were declared according to the uil.

[dragonfootballfan]

But go ahead, tell me what I would have thought to help your story. I can handle most of the SLC fans here, but you're just another one of those who think that SLC has a place in every discussion. Yeah, BIG Cinderella in 2002...whatever, nowhere close to the original story posted in the first post in this thread.
First you claim that you don't know anything about what happened.

Second you say that had you known the story you would say things differently than just about every 5A football fan in Texas.

Finally you say that the story did not happen the same as how I wrote it.

What is it? Do you not know anything about the story or do you know that it went differently than what I posted.

[dragonsdaddy]

i wonder why a team who started off poorly would be a cinderella and a team picked by every one with a vote to finish out of the po's(sv and slc) wouldn't be? someone in the know please answer my question concerning the makeup of french. i remember that when hebert and the other bmont school were melded together, they went thru some serious growing pains.

[AZTiger]

First you claim that you don't know anything about what happened.

Second you say that had you known the story you would say things differently than just about every 5A football fan in Texas.

Finally you say that the story did not happen the same as how I wrote it.

What is it? Do you not know anything about the story or do you know that it went differently than what I posted.

1.) I wasn't paying attention back then to predicitions for new schools in regioins I don't care about, I just care about Katy that point in the year.

2.) I'm not your average HS football fan in Texas, I don't follow the popular opinion. This point is really a stupid argument, you telling me what I would have said and me disagreeing, this will go nowhere.

3.) How did I say the story happened different? You lost me there. I really don't care.

This is what kills me about this forum sometimes, I don't know why we even start threads like this. Everyone always seems to nominate their own school for everything. If it's a "best coach" thread lufkin fans pick Outlaw, SLC fans pick Dodge, Katy fans choose Joseph, SV fans choose Hill....it's so pointless, because none of us seem to be able to admit another school might be better than our own at something....oh the horrors!!!!

[dragonfootballfan]

This is what kills me about this forum sometimes, I don't know why we even start threads like this. Everyone always seems to nominate their own school for everything. If it's a "best coach" thread lufkin fans pick Outlaw, SLC fans pick Dodge, Katy fans choose Joseph, SV fans choose Hill....it's so pointless, because none of us seem to be able to admit another school might be better than our own at something....oh the horrors!!!!
why do you post then?

[AZTiger]

because i'm not a blind homer and someone needs to be unbiased :)

i usually try to stay away from threads like the one i described, because you just get caught in endless arguments like this one

[dragonfootballfan]

1.) I wasn't paying attention back then to predicitions for new schools in regioins I don't care about, I just care about Katy that point in the year.

3.) How did I say the story happened different? You lost me there. I really don't care.


here are the two quotes from you that I used for points one and three.

Point 1
i didnt pay much attention to anyone other than katy back when yall and SV moved up

Point 3

But go ahead, tell me what I would have thought to help your story. I can handle most of the SLC fans here, but you're just another one of those who think that SLC has a place in every discussion. Yeah, BIG Cinderella in 2002...whatever, nowhere close to the original story posted in the first post in this thread.
Now do you see how what you say does not make any sense. First you say that you did not pay attention to Carroll and Smithson Valley before they moved up to 5A. Then you say that the story did not happen how I posted it. If you did not follow the season for Carroll and Smithson Valley then why did you say the story did not go how I posted it?

[maverick#23]

i wonder why a team who started off poorly would be a cinderella and a team picked by every one with a vote to finish out of the po's(sv and slc) wouldn't be? someone in the know please answer my question concerning the makeup of french. i remember that when hebert and the other bmont school were melded together, they went thru some serious growing pains.

I was not shocked by Smithson Valley or Southlake Carroll making it to the Final. They were two of the best teams in 4A. SLC had a great offense, SV feasted off a weak district (then not in the 265) and caught Madison and Katy off guard. Still nobody outside of Beaumont literally gave French a chance in '84. SLC and SV shocked no one that year. Perhaps a mild surprise would best explain their state final match-up.

[AZTiger]

dragonfootballfan-

okay, i see where we're mixed up. i meant i didnt know the details of each team, like lettermen/roster size/district they were placed/etc...but I did know a little about SV because of my roommate and I did know that SLC had been dominant already at the 3A AND 4A level. sorry for the mixup

[mad_fan]

i guess i'd have to say any school from san antonio other than judson or SV


:rolleyes: I hate these kind of threads too :p

[wide-e-wide]

My daughters all think Brandy was the best Cinderella of all time...

I like the classic version better than the Whitney Houston version though...
To each his own I guess...

[Big Slim]

Before 1995 there was no overtime rule in NCAA/High School Football. In UIL playoffs the tiebreaker for advancement were first penetrations, second first downs, and third offensive yardage. Now, I never heard of any games going to the third tie-breaker, but I played in one that almost did. In the 1990 regional round, San Antonio Madison and San Antonio Sam Houston were tied 35-35 and tied on penetrations 5-5 and first downs 27-27. We (Madison) had the ball with less than ten seconds on the clock. We had been informed of the tiebreaking rules and new we needed one more first down to move on. We ran a screen left to our RB John Wallace who caught the ball with a wall of blockers in front of him. He ran the ball about twenty yards down field before he was tackled. The clock expired and we celebrated a first down like no other team probably has. We advanced to the State Quarterfinals 35-35/5-5/28-27 on first downs. It is a fact!

I was at this game--I had a brother that played. Was that the same year y'all played Koy Detmer & Mission?

[DiamondJ2]

I would say Judson everytime they won state over a "little SWC" team and had to go through Ike to reach state.

[Shoot2thrill]

This is what kills me about this forum sometimes, I don't know why we even start threads like this. Everyone always seems to nominate their own school for everything. If it's a "best coach" thread lufkin fans pick Outlaw, SLC fans pick Dodge, Katy fans choose Joseph, SV fans choose Hill....it's so pointless, because none of us seem to be able to admit another school might be better than our own at something....oh the horrors!!!!


This may be the truest statement(s) I have seen in this forum in weeks or months. It is just plain silly how posters always nominate their own team's "whatever" in any thread that is thrown out there. I realize it is often difficult to be objective and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This forum would be even a better one IMHO if we could get the forum members to make a sincere effort to be objective.

BTW, I remember the 1984 French-Permian game well and hands down would nominate that for the best Cinderella team in MY opinion. ;)

[odessapermian.com]

Dragonsdaddy is correct. In state championship games, the UIL does not declare a winner per se'. Each team gets to claim the championship. Technically, Permian would have been the winner by penetrations but officially they were co-champions.

PS- the list AZTiger posted did not come from a Permian website. ;)

[LoneRocket]

My vote is the 1982 Champs Beaumont West Brook.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Whatever buddy, think what you want to help your argument. I watched many SV games in college (I graduated in May 2002) and my old college roommate is now a coach there. It was apparent then that despite being 4A, they had the coaching and ability to compete at the 5A level. I had watched lots of SA area football back then since I went to Texas Lutheran in Seguin, as well as watching many Katy games as well. I hadn't seen SLC, but with the proven winning record they had at every level they'd played, there was no reason to expect them to struggle mightily. Enrollment figures are garbage. Most intelligent football fans know that it's got less to do with talent and more to do with good preparation and great coaching, and certainly SLC and SV have both of that, with talent to boot.

But go ahead, tell me what I would have thought to help your story. I can handle most of the SLC fans here, but you're just another one of those who think that SLC has a place in every discussion. Yeah, BIG Cinderella in 2002...whatever, nowhere close to the original story posted in the first post in this thread.

I agree 100%. but Southlake to create the forward pass in Texas :D

[dragonfootballfan]

I agree 100%. but Southlake to create the forward pass in Texas :D
I don't understand how you guys could think that a team that was predicted to not make the playoffs at the beginnning of the season and goes on to win a championship undefeated is not a Cinderella story

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Some of you young people don't seem to remember much past 1995. However my homer vote goes to the 1977 Plano Wildcats. Team was coming off a 6-2-2 76 campaign. Was in the same 13-4a district with #1 ranked team in the state the Sherman Bearkats. They lose their first game of the year to South Garland but went on to win District by tying Sherman 13-13 and advanced to the playoffs not on penetrations by by the 2nd tie breaker first downs. (only 1 team made the playoffs.

Playoff games

17-7 over Lufkin
28-9 over Conroe
29-28 over Highland Park. Miracle comeback from 28-0 in the third in the era of option football.
3-0 over Permian in Lubbock in 20 degree weather. Plano had 80 yards total offense and won.
13-10 over PNG in the state championship infront of 49,500 in attendance.

They weren't called the Cardiac cats for nothing.

[fbjones]

DragonfootballFan,
Are you a lawyer?

[dragonfootballfan]

DragonfootballFan,
Are you a lawyer?
no, but you are not the first person to ask me that before

[farmerfan]

I don't understand how you guys could think that a team that was predicted to not make the playoffs at the beginnning of the season and goes on to win a championship undefeated is not a Cinderella story

There was nothing ugly about the Carroll 2002 season, they won most of their games very easily and had no set backs. Cinderella indicates some ugliness, most of the teams listed above had multiple losses as well as ugly wins. Carroll was more like a sleeping beauty.

[dragonfootballfan]

There was nothing ugly about the Carroll 2002 season, they won most of their games very easily and had no set backs. Cinderella indicates some ugliness, most of the teams listed above had multiple losses as well as ugly wins. Carroll was more like a sleeping beauty.
I thought a cinderrella story was one of an overmatched team that was not supposed to be there and compete doing something that they were not supposed to do.

[GTown02]

Would you consider Garland's 99' run? I know we lost our first game, and rattled off 15 in a row, but we were underdogs every week of the playoffs. There were plenty of times I thought we wouldnt win, Lufkin, Westlake, SGP, but we always found a way to win... I dont know if that team makes the list or not... :cool:

[farmerfan]

I thought a cinderrella story was one of an overmatched team that was not supposed to be there and compete doing something that they were not supposed to do.

how was carroll overmatched? they were undfeated going into the playoffs, they had scored 50 or more in all 10 games, the other teams had set backs, and close games throughout the season. Carroll cruised into the playoffs and were one of the favorites from the beginning of the playoffs, those other teams were not.

[farmerfan]

Would you consider Garland's 99' run? I know we lost our first game, and rattled off 15 in a row, but we were underdogs every week of the playoffs. There were plenty of times I thought we wouldnt win, Lufkin, Westlake, SGP, but we always found a way to win... I dont know if that team makes the list or not... :cool:

I guess its what you would define, to me no, only because Garland was 9-1 and a threat. As for Plano 1994 or Beaumont French 1984 those schools had multiple defeats entering the playoffs. Plano had got beat very badly by Lake Highlands and PESH and going into the playoffs they were not expected to get out of their region. That is why i consider them a cinderella.

[dragonfootballfan]

how was carroll overmatched? they were undfeated going into the playoffs, they had scored 50 or more in all 10 games, the other teams had set backs, and close games throughout the season. Carroll cruised into the playoffs and were one of the favorites from the beginning of the playoffs, those other teams were not.
go back before the season started. They were picked to not even make the playoffs and there were some in the town that said that Carroll should not even play against Lewisville because the players will get blown out and get hurt. I remember after going undefeated in non-district the "experts" said that Carroll still has not played any real 5A teams. I then remember the "experts" saying that even after an undefeated district season that Carroll was just a product of the district being down and full of yesterday's powers. In the first round it was MacArthur's athletes that were going to overwhelm Carroll. In the second round Carroll was favored for one of the only times during the season and actually almost lost that one. After the two rounds the same "experts" said that there was no way Carroll could beat the vaunted Abilene Cooper Cougars and Legendary Shotwell Stadium. After that game it was an Arlington team that was going to run the ball right down Carroll's throat. Then there were the defending state champion Lufkin Panthers that were going to destroy the overrated DFW team. After a great game Carroll was finally favored in the 5A final against another team that had just moved up to 5A in Smithson Valley.

It looks like a story where people were doubting them all season and after they won now everyone is saying that they were on the Carroll bandwagon.

[farmerfan]

go back before the season started. They were picked to not even make the playoffs and there were some in the town that said that Carroll should not even play against Lewisville because the players will get blown out and get hurt. I remember after going undefeated in non-district the "experts" said that Carroll still has not played any real 5A teams. I then remember the "experts" saying that even after an undefeated district season that Carroll was just a product of the district being down and full of yesterday's powers. In the first round it was MacArthur's athletes that were going to overwhelm Carroll. In the second round Carroll was favored for one of the only times during the season and actually almost lost that one. After the two rounds the same "experts" said that there was no way Carroll could beat the vaunted Abilene Cooper Cougars and Legendary Shotwell Stadium. After that game it was an Arlington team that was going to run the ball right down Carroll's throat. Then there were the defending state champion Lufkin Panthers that were going to destroy the overrated DFW team. After a great game Carroll was finally favored in the 5A final against another team that had just moved up to 5A in Smithson Valley.

It looks like a story where people were doubting them all season and after they won now everyone is saying that they were on the Carroll bandwagon.

people stopped doubting after about the 5th game that year. I dont recall ever hearing anyone say that Carroll would be in trouble against I-Mac, I also don't remember anyone outside of Abilene saying that Carroll would be in have a hard time dealing with Cooper and Shotwell, yes Cooper was undefeated and playing at home was a huge advantage so some might have had Carroll as the under dogs but not many. Compared to French, Westbrook, Plano, then Carroll was by no means a cinderella. You would be hard pressed to find anyone in those cities that even believed their teams would win a state title, let alone the rest of the state. If you want to believe that Carroll was a cinderella then go ahead and believe it.

[maverick#23]

I was at this game--I had a brother that played. Was that the same year y'all played Koy Detmer & Mission?

Yes, we went in to the half tied 17-17 and then Koy blew up in the second half. He had 350 yards passing and 5TD's in that second half. We had some big kids on that team and the Mission players requested we hang out on the field so their parents could come down from the stands and take pictures of us with their kids. I guess you might say we were their hunting trophies. Koy detmer was 5'11" and went about 160 lbs. and he was by far their tallest player, I don't think they had anyone that weighed over 200 lbs. The next year we ran into Weslaco who was lead by a 6'3" 215 lbs QB, by the name of Sonny Cavazos. Like, Koy he put up ridiculous passing numbers, he had passed for more than 3,000 yards and had only thrown 3 interceptions on the year in route to a 12-0 record. We picked him off a state playoff record SEVEN times in that game.

[dragonfootballfan]

so you think that Carroll was going to make the playoffs and make a long run prior to the 2002 season?

[crunked9]

OK, lets clear this up about SLC from 2002 being a Cinderella!
First off, the day SLC moved up to 5A, i remember people telling the players, well thats some tough luck, you guys will probably go around 4-6 and if you guys are 3-7 Dodge should get a raise! Second, if you look back at the predictions before all 5 pre-district games you will see that carroll was never favored to win. Yes maybe by the end of district SLC might of been a slight favorite. But it wasnt a big lead! Second SLC was favored in only 1 playoff game and that was the State game! The whole playoff run was called a Cinderella year for carroll. and if you think i'm wrong i would be happy to show you some press clippings!

Now, to the important part, at no time did any player think that they were gonna not win state! I knew from the moment we had our first practice we were going all the way! So, everyone else might think that carroll was a cinderella team but the players and coaches new it was going to be a great year!

[dragonsdaddy]

since every one is claiming they knew all along that slc was going to be successful and weren't unlikely to win state, who was i argueing with 100 times a day trying to say those exact sentiments? you history revisionists are either newbies or lying(ff excluded) or simple having a touch of amnesia. i could have made a mint if everyone that posts on here would have bet me concerning that season, even most of the slc posters. i stated my confidence after the 7on7 state tourney, and never lost it. call it what you want, but it wasn't expected by anyone outside of ne tarrant cty.

the westbrook team was the one of which i was thinking. they are more of a cinderella than the french team, imo. the real clash of the titans.

[Favpack]

Let's not forget Midland High from that same year - 2002 - third place finisher in Little SWC - barely squeeked into the playoffs. The Dogs won state except they let Judson complete a 75 yard pass with 2 second left.

[dragonsdaddy]

i remember well the predictions every week in the po's, you'd read that this is their(sv, slc, midland) week to experience real football. midland hadn't made the po's in 50+ years. they were a cinderella too. except for having attended the pesh seminar on how to hold a last second lead, they'd be wearing rings.

[farmerfan]

so you think that Carroll was going to make the playoffs and make a long run prior to the 2002 season?


prior to the season I did not, however by the 5th game I believe it was against Marcus, I was convinced they were a special bunch. I guess by your logic many state championship teams are cinderella's. Whou would have thought prior to the 97 season Marcus was going to win it all, or that 96 Lewisville was, or that 98 Duncanville or 95 Roosevelt, or 01 Mesquite and many more. I guess just about every state champion is some what of a cinderella. :rolleyes:

[dragonsdaddy]

would a cinderella team be one that does something never before accomplished in texas hs football? if no other team, and there have been thousands who have moved up in classification over the last 50+ years, has been able to win a state championship, does that qualify?

[DawgDave]

I nominate the 1998 Copperas Cove Bulldawgs.
Going into the '98 season, the Dawgs hadn't been to the playoffs since Eisenhower was president in 1960!!
Cove had a couple of district losses, including a blowout at #1 ranked Killeen Ellison, but manhandled Killeen and Temple to get into the playoffs.
Their first round opponent was Arlington Lamar, ranked #4, and Cove shut down their powerful offense and upset them. Their second round game was against Irving Nimitz at Texas Stadium and the Dawgs came away with a big win. Their demise came in the Regional Finals against Cedric Benson and Midland Lee.
Since then, Cove has been a power in Central Texas.

[farmerfan]

would a cinderella team be one that does something never before accomplished in texas hs football? if no other team, and there have been thousands who have moved up in classification over the last 50+ years, has been able to win a state championship, does that qualify?

I guess it is what you see as the definition of cinderella. To me if you are undefeated, have averaged over 50 pts a game then you are not a cinderella. Now if you have a few defeats, grab the last playoff spot within your district, the games you did win you had to scratch out, then you are not expected to win a state title, but you somehow do, then you are a cinderella. I have a hard time putting the 02 Dragons in the same category as some of these teams who went on to win state titles even though no one expected them to. What Carroll did in 02 was nothing short of impressive, however it is in my opinion that it is not cinderella, usually when you enter the playoffs undefeated you are considered a favorite to win the state title, especially when you had scored over 50 in every regular season game.
I think the case could be made that the 01 team was more of a cinderella than the 02 team. If I am not mistaken, they had several defeats and many did not expect a big run out of them in the playoffs, all they did was advance to the state semifinals. But once again it is my opinion, so I guess you guys are not wrong and I am not right, its just the way I classify it.

[dragonsdaddy]

when you repick the favorites after ten games there is a much more accurate selection process- accepted. i and others are talking about the season as a whole, from day one. the whole mindset before sv and slc was that the upstarts won't stand a chance and will be required to stand in the aisles while all the old stalwarts make fun of them. the only other program coming close to those two prior to 02 was westlake.

[dragonfootballfan]

I guess it is what you see as the definition of cinderella. To me if you are undefeated, have averaged over 50 pts a game then you are not a cinderella. Now if you have a few defeats, grab the last playoff spot within your district, the games you did win you had to scratch out, then you are not expected to win a state title, but you somehow do, then you are a cinderella. I have a hard time putting the 02 Dragons in the same category as some of these teams who went on to win state titles even though no one expected them to. What Carroll did in 02 was nothing short of impressive, however it is in my opinion that it is not cinderella, usually when you enter the playoffs undefeated you are considered a favorite to win the state title, especially when you had scored over 50 in every regular season game.
I think the case could be made that the 01 team was more of a cinderella than the 02 team. If I am not mistaken, they had several defeats and many did not expect a big run out of them in the playoffs, all they did was advance to the state semifinals. But once again it is my opinion, so I guess you guys are not wrong and I am not right, its just the way I classify it.
why is it different for a team to be strongly doubted to make the playoffs before the season started than it is for a team to be doubted once they make the playoffs. Just like all the other teams Carroll was not a favorite in all but one games in their championship season.

[farmerfan]

why is it different for a team to be strongly doubted to make the playoffs before the season started than it is for a team to be doubted once they make the playoffs. Just like all the other teams Carroll was not a favorite in all but one games in their championship season.

why you bolding part of the sentence? you are totally taking it out of context. What that sentence said was Now if you have a few defeats, grab the last playoff spot within your district, the games you did win you had to scratch out, then you are not expected to win a state title, but you somehow do, then you are a cinderella Plano had suffered from multiple setbacks during the regular season, they came out of no where in the playoffs and were able to win the whole thing. This is a team who lost 3 times before the playoffs started and had to scratch their way just to get into the playoffs. You know kind of like in the fairy tale where Cinderella is a drudge then all the sudden she gets the chance to go dancing and show how beautiful she is. 1984 Beaumont French was the same way, I believe they were a 4 loss team, but somehow managed to get into the playoffs and survived without suffering a single defeat.
When was 2002 Southlake ever a drudge? If you say taht 02 southlake was a great cinderella then the same criteria would have to be used for Duncanville, Marcus, Lewisville, Mesquite, Westlake, Roosevelt, 83 Judson and so on.

Next time you try to use one of my sentences or quotes, then take the whole thing and dont format it to say what you want it to say.

[farmerfan]

why is it different for a team to be strongly doubted to make the playoffs before the season started than it is for a team to be doubted once they make the playoffs. Just like all the other teams Carroll was not a favorite in all but one games in their championship season.


I believe Carroll was favored in the I-Mac game, the Sam game, the Arlington game as well as SV game. You can see why Cooper and Lufkin would get the nod, one you were playing in Abilene the other was the defending state champion.
Once district started you were clear favorites from the Marcus game on. Dont try to tell me you were not. Not one time during district was Carroll picked to lose.

[dragonfootballfan]

why you bolding part of the sentence? you are totally taking it out of context. What that sentence said was Now if you have a few defeats, grab the last playoff spot within your district, the games you did win you had to scratch out, then you are not expected to win a state title, but you somehow do, then you are a cinderella Plano had suffered from multiple setbacks during the regular season, they came out of no where in the playoffs and were able to win the whole thing. This is a team who lost 3 times before the playoffs started and had to scratch their way just to get into the playoffs. You know kind of like in the fairy tale where Cinderella is a drudge then all the sudden she gets the chance to go dancing and show how beautiful she is. 1984 Beaumont French was the same way, I believe they were a 4 loss team, but somehow managed to get into the playoffs and survived without suffering a single defeat.
When was 2002 Southlake ever a drudge? If you say taht 02 southlake was a great cinderella then the same criteria would have to be used for Duncanville, Marcus, Lewisville, Mesquite, Westlake, Roosevelt, 83 Judson and so on.

Next time you try to use one of my sentences or quotes, then take the whole thing and dont format it to say what you want it to say.
actually a cinderella story is the same as saying a rags to riches stroy. Carroll was down, they were not supposed to make the playoffs, they were not supposed to win in the playoffs and they were not supposed to win state. They did all of these things. That is a rags to riches story.

What is the difference between a team that is supposedly undefeated because they played a weak schedule and won't make any noise in the playoffs and a team that has a few losses and makes the playoffs and wins. You said that if you are not expected to win a state title, but somehow you do then you are a cinderella. In that sense Carroll is a cinderella

[dragonfootballfan]

I believe Carroll was favored in the I-Mac game, the Sam game, the Arlington game as well as SV game. You can see why Cooper and Lufkin would get the nod, one you were playing in Abilene the other was the defending state champion.
Once district started you were clear favorites from the Marcus game on. Dont try to tell me you were not. Not one time during district was Carroll picked to lose.
so if a team with a few losses is favored to win a game is their season a cinderella season? I dissagree with your predictions for Mac, Sam, Arlington prognistications. I specifically remember the newspaper coverage of these games. In district Carroll was picked to finish in maybe 4th or 5th place. After winning district their season should be considered a Cinderella team. The championship is what makes it one of the best of all time.

[farmerfan]

actually a cinderella story is the same as saying a rags to riches stroy. Carroll was down, they were not supposed to make the playoffs, they were not supposed to win in the playoffs and they were not supposed to win state. They did all of these things. That is a rags to riches story.

What is the difference between a team that is supposedly undefeated because they played a weak schedule and won't make any noise in the playoffs and a team that has a few losses and makes the playoffs and wins. You said that if you are not expected to win a state title, but somehow you do then you are a cinderella. In that sense Carroll is a cinderella

How was Carroll a rags to riches story? They were semifinalist the year before, they finished the regular season 10-0 scoring over 50 points in every regular season game with a average margin of victory by around 30 points. How is that rags to riches? how is that program down but comes up? So what your saying is that any team who wins a state title but was not piced pre season 1-2 is a cinderella?
How can you say they were not supposed to win in the playoffs? I believe their first two games they were favorites. The 3rd game they were going out to Abilene to play a undfeated Cooper team on its home field, so you can see why some might say they would lose. The following week you got to play a 1 loss Arlington team on your home field, but you were somehow expected to lose?
Going into Lufkin they were given a nod because they were the defending state champs, however many said Carroll has as good a chance of winning as Lufkin and they did. So this no one gave us a chance crap aint going to float. Once the playoffs started many gave Carroll as good a chance to win a state title as anyone.

Once again you are taking my wording out of context let me make it as clear as possible for you, If you have had a few defeats in the regular season and have to scratch your way just to make the playoffs, but you somehow manage to win a state title then you are considered a cinderella. In the regular season there was not one time taht Carroll looked ugly, not one time were they ever challenged. So I ask you again, how is that a rags to riches story?

[dragonfootballfan]

So I ask you again, how is that a rags to riches story?
They were picked to go 4-6 or 5-5 and not make the playoffs. They made the playoffs and won state.

Rags to Riches right there.

You do not have to be in the rags state the week before the playoffs. You can be in the rags state before the season starts.

You said a team that was not supposed to win and wins is a cinderella.

It shouldn't matter how many losses a team has.

[farmerfan]

so if a team with a few losses is favored to win a game is their season a cinderella season? I dissagree with your predictions for Mac, Sam, Arlington prognistications. I specifically remember the newspaper coverage of these games. In district Carroll was picked to finish in maybe 4th or 5th place. After winning district their season should be considered a Cinderella team. The championship is what makes it one of the best of all time.

I remember the newspapers as well, Mac was not picked to beat Carroll, Sam was not either, neither was Arlington.
The fact that Carroll eased its way into the playoffs, scoring over 50 does not allow them to be a cinderella, the whole season was pretty, the whole season was a glide. They never had one stumbling block. The other teams who are listed did. Its hard to be a cinderella when you are 16-0 and have set records for points scored and total offense.

[dragonfootballfan]

I remember the newspapers as well, Mac was not picked to beat Carroll, Sam was not either, neither was Arlington.
The fact that Carroll eased its way into the playoffs, scoring over 50 does not allow them to be a cinderella, the whole season was pretty, the whole season was a glide. They never had one stumbling block. The other teams who are listed did. Its hard to be a cinderella when you are 16-0 and have set records for points scored and total offense.
what if you do not look pretty before the regular season?

[Drake]

I thought a cinderrella story was one of an overmatched team that was not supposed to be there and compete doing something that they were not supposed to do.Exactly! Was reading some of these posts with confusion until I realized many of the posters don't know what "a Cinderella story" even means... The Beaumont French team seemed like a good one though...

[farmerfan]

They were picked to go 4-6 or 5-5 and not make the playoffs. They made the playoffs and won state.

Rags to Riches right there.

You do not have to be in the rags state the week before the playoffs. You can be in the rags state before the season starts.

You said a team that was not supposed to win and wins is a cinderella.

It shouldn't matter how many losses a team has.

The whole concepte of a cinderella story is the same as the ugly duckling to the swan. Its one where a team has been beaten, has been down but manages to pull itself out and pull out a victory at the very end. Not one time did Carroll suffer through this. Not one time was Carroll in jeopardy of making the playoffs or losing a game.
Once again you are misinterpreting what I have said, let me lay it out for you for the 10000000th time. Now if you have a few defeats, grab the last playoff spot within your district, the games you did win you had to scratch out, then you are not expected to win a state title, but you somehow do, then you are a cinderella
read where winning a state title fits into that, Carroll does not fit into that mold so quit trying to make it sound like I say something that I didn't.

To say 2002 Carroll was a cinderella is laughable. If you look at the NCCA tournament every year, they say who will wear the sliper, who will be cinderella. In 1999 at a 10 seed it was Gonzaga. In 2004 at a 10 seed it was Nevad. In 1983 it was NC State. 1985 it was Villanova. Those teams as the tournament started were not expected to do anything let alone win a national title or advance to the sweet 16 or elite 8, but they did. Carroll showed quickly its ability to play in 5A and people took notice. Which was one of the reasons they ended the season state ranked as well as top 4 in the area. I cant remember the last state ranked team who won a state title that was considered a cinderella.

[farmerfan]

what if you do not look pretty before the regular season?

considering you were semi-finalist the year before I think the resume looked fine.

[farmerfan]

Exactly! Was reading some of these posts with confusion until I realized many of the posters don't know what "a Cinderella story" even means... The Beaumont French team seemed like a good one though...


and in no way in 2002 was Carroll over matched. How can you be overmatched if you average over 50 a game during the regular season and cruise into the playoffs. Winning your playoffs games by a average of 18 points per game. How is that a "cinderella"?

[dragonfootballfan]

I see why we are having a problem. You think that requirement for a cinderella season is to have an early loss and to have a few ugly victories.

I feel that you should consider that, but to be a cinderella you have to be a supposedly weak team that was not supposed to accomplish anything in their season.

What is different between this going into the season:

Carroll was not supposed to do anything. After all it was their first year in 5A. They are replacing 8 offensive starters and 8 defensive starters. Even though their team won their region in 4A the year before they were just over acheivers. It would take a miracle for this team to make the playoffs when playing with the big boys.

And this going into the last week of the season

In order for team A to make the playoffs they are going to have to win by 13 or more points and have team B lose. After those things take place they are supposed to lose their first round matchup and this three loss team will be one and done.

Carroll proved the doubters wrong at the beginning of the season where as the other teams proved the doubters wrong at the end of the season. Both teams were not supposed to make the playoffs. Both teams were not supposed to go deep in the playoffs. Both teams were not supposed to win state. If both teams accomplish all of these things they should both be considered cinderealla teams

[dragonfootballfan]

considering you were semi-finalist the year before I think the resume looked fine.
It was their first year in 5A. All of the newspapers and "experts" said 5-5 would be a great season and a playoff birth would be a bonus. That is how I remember the beginning of the season.

I have figured out why you are arguing with me. In 2002 your team the Lewisville Fighting Farmers performed a reverse cinderella. They went from riches to rags. Lewisville was preseason state ranked in the top 5. They went on to accomplish nothing and Carroll the new kids in 5A won district and state. Will your jealousy of the 2002 season stop?

[farmerfan]

I see why we are having a problem. You think that requirement for a cinderella season is to have an early loss and to have a few ugly victories.

I feel that you should consider that, but to be a cinderella you have to be a supposedly weak team that was not supposed to accomplish anything in their season.

What is different between this going into the season:

Carroll was not supposed to do anything. After all it was their first year in 5A. They are replacing 8 offensive starters and 8 defensive starters. Even though their team won their region in 4A the year before they were just over acheivers. It would take a miracle for this team to make the playoffs when playing with the big boys.

And this going into the last week of the season

In order for team A to make the playoffs they are going to have to win by 13 or more points and have team B lose. After those things take place they are supposed to lose their first round matchup and this three loss team will be one and done.

Carroll proved the doubters wrong at the beginning of the season where as the other teams proved the doubters wrong at the end of the season. Both teams were not supposed to make the playoffs. Both teams were not supposed to go deep in the playoffs. Both teams were not supposed to win state. If both teams accomplish all of these things they should both be considered cinderealla teams

You somewhat nailed it. However the early loss is not all, as for the teams such as French, Plano and Westbrook they got into the playoffs by grabbing the final playoff spot in their district. Carroll showed early on that they would be a force.
By you defintion of a cinderella more than half of the state champs in class 5A have been cenderella's, if we use your defintion of a cindereall then the 02 Dragons would not be the best. The 96 Farmers were not expected to do much according to the experts and they crusied to the state championship. So by using what you say a cinderella is then I would say the 96 Farmers are are the greatest cinderella of all time.

[nate]

Anyone who thinks Carroll has been a Cinderella in recent years is kidding themselves. Pre-season expectations have nothing to do with Cinderella stories. Its the last team in that makes a deep playoff run or the serious underdog winning the title that qualifies.

Proving that pre-season expectations were incorrect doesn't make you a Cinderella story.

[dragonfootballfan]

You somewhat nailed it. However the early loss is not all, as for the teams such as French, Plano and Westbrook they got into the playoffs by grabbing the final playoff spot in their district. Carroll showed early on that they would be a force.
By you defintion of a cinderella more than half of the state champs in class 5A have been cenderella's, if we use your defintion of a cindereall then the 02 Dragons would not be the best. The 96 Farmers were not expected to do much according to the experts and they crusied to the state championship. So by using what you say a cinderella is then I would say the 96 Farmers are are the greatest cinderella of all time.
Anyone who thinks Carroll has been a Cinderella in recent years is kidding themselves. Pre-season expectations have nothing to do with Cinderella stories. Its the last team in that makes a deep playoff run or the serious underdog winning the title that qualifies.

Proving that pre-season expectations were incorrect doesn't make you a Cinderella story.
Both of you guys are discounting the point of Carroll having to move up from 4A to 5A. There were so many that said that it couldn't be done successfully.

[Drake]

A Cinderella story is neither an ugly duckling or a rags to riches story...

A rags to riches story is one of someone that had nothing, and through hard work or good fortune, acquired everything... such as Andrew Carnegie... But they usually remain rich after they get there...

I'm not sure there is even such thing as an "ugly duckling story", but if there were, it might be about someone that was a gawky, awkward looking thing that turned out to be more beautiful than most and the moral would be to not give up on someone or something with potential too soon...

A CINDERELLA STORY is about individuals or groups that embark on a goal that NO ONE gives them a chance to succeed at, either in the beginning, or at any point along the way... Its a feat that is so umimaginable considering the odds that were defied, that when it is reached, all those familiar with the accomplishment forever cherish the moment as one that they may never witness again...

The Miracle On Ice, Rudy, and Hoosiers are good examples of movies that portray true Cinderella stories...

[farmerfan]

It was their first year in 5A. All of the newspapers and "experts" said 5-5 would be a great season and a playoff birth would be a bonus. That is how I remember the beginning of the season.

I have figured out why you are arguing with me. In 2002 your team the Lewisville Fighting Farmers performed a reverse cinderella. They went from riches to rags. Lewisville was preseason state ranked in the top 5. They went on to accomplish nothing and Carroll the new kids in 5A won district and state. Will your jealousy of the 2002 season stop?


how can you say it is jealousy. We were not a state ranked top 5 team. We were not even ranked in the top 10, we were ranked 12 in Dave Campbells and that was based on 3 stud athletes we had. I have never been jealous of Carroll and have no reason to be. Right now our program is down, however I have plenty to be proud of that we have accomplished. To say I am jealous of Carroll and their success shows your arrogance. How dare you say I am jealous of your program. You have just as many 5A state titles as we do. Why would I be jealous? Why should I be jealous.
To think why so many get frustrated and label some of the carroll backers as arrogan and pompous esacpes me :rolleyes: The fact is all programs suffer times in their history where they are not winning. I have news for you, there will be a day when Carroll is in the same posistion we are in right now.

I guess everyone is jealous of the Dragons and everyone wishes they were a Carroll fan. It all begins and ends with being a SLC Dragon. One day reality will set in and you will realize that Camelot is no more. We are going through it now and you and your fans will one day to.

[rancher52]

With only 2 losing seasons in 30 years and 12 or 13 years of undefeated regular seasons during that same time, I have a hard time buying the rags to riches argument.

[farmerfan]

A Cinderella story is neither an ugly duckling or a rags to riches story...

A rags to riches story is one of someone that had nothing, and through hard work or good fortune, acquired everything... such as Andrew Carnegie... But they usually remain rich after they get there...

I'm not sure there is even such thing as an "ugly duckling story", but if there were, it might be about someone that was a gawky, awkward looking thing that turned out to be more beautiful than most and the moral would be to not give up on someone or something with potential too soon...

A CINDERELLA STORY is about individuals or groups that embark on a goal that NO ONE gives them a chance to succeed at, either in the beginning, or at any point along the way... Its a feat that is so umimaginable considering the odds that were defied, that when it is reached, all those familiar with the accomplishment forever cherish the moment as one that they may never witness again...

The Miracle On Ice, Rudy, and Hoosiers are good examples of movies that portray true Cinderella stories...


Miracle on Ice, the Russians beat the US by 9 goals or something likethat in a exhibition

Hoosiers, they lost many early games, only to surprise everyone with a state title.

Rudy made the team as a walkon after going through many set backs and defeats to get there.

I dont see how Carroll 02 fits into that example.

[dragonfootballfan]

With only 2 losing seasons in 30 years and 12 or 13 years of undefeated regular seasons during that same time, I have a hard time buying the rags to riches argument.
what did you predict Carroll would do in their first year in 5A?

[dragonsdaddy]

I believe Carroll was favored in the I-Mac game, the Sam game, the Arlington game as well as SV game. You can see why Cooper and Lufkin would get the nod, one you were playing in Abilene the other was the defending state champion.
Once district started you were clear favorites from the Marcus game on. Dont try to tell me you were not. Not one time during district was Carroll picked to lose.
who are you using as your source? the local sports scribes picked against us almost every week except tc. several became infamous by picking against us every week. i believe you are using selective memory. we were not respected that year, i don't care how you spin it. you personally may have picked us from week 5 on, but you were a very small minority.

[farmerfan]

who are you using as your source? the local sports scribes picked against us almost every week except tc. several became infamous by picking against us every week. i believe you are using selective memory. we were not respected that year, i don't care how you spin it. you personally may have picked us from week 5 on, but you were a very small minority.

The newspapers did not have their picks for the Lewisville game since it was a thursday game and the picks are posted on friday. I also remember yall being favored against TC, FMHS and Coppell. If I am not mistaken yall played a perdominately 4A non district schedule that year that many had yall favored as well. Most of the people picking against Carroll were on the message boards and everything else. I dont believe I am using selective memory here, I clearly remember going into district yall were a heavy favorite. To say yall were not respected that year is laughable, going into the playoffs many had said the region would come down to you guys and cooper. When you beat Cooper many more said you would beat Arlington especically with the game being at Dragon stadium. The Lufkin game was more of a toss up game with them being defending state champs, but I believe a lot of the DMN writers had a split between Lufkin and Carroll. It did not take yall long to earn respect that year.

[rancher52]

what did you predict Carroll would do in their first year in 5A?
Something like 5-5..... but was not a surprise to me they exceeded expectations..... their history said they would do just that.

[dragonsdaddy]

A CINDERELLA STORY is about individuals or groups that embark on a goal that NO ONE gives them a chance to succeed at, either in the beginning, or at any point along the way... Its a feat that is so umimaginable considering the odds that were defied, that when it is reached, all those familiar with the accomplishment forever cherish the moment as one that they may never witness again...




anyone who agrees with this definition must also see the resemblence to the 02 slc team. no one gave slc a chance to win district and few a chance to make the po's. that is a fact that can easily be verified by dragging out old preseason polls and predictions. and almost no one on this site wasn't surprised to see the scores every week. had we done a bracket that year, i'd have been possibly the only one to get the d-2 title winner.

[rancher52]

Since SLC fans want to win everything (including the #1 Cinderella Story), if we start a thread as the #1 worst team of all time, will they want that too??

[dragonfootballfan]

Something like 5-5..... but was not a surprise to me they exceeded expectations..... their history said they would do just that.
so a team that was supposed to be 5-5 and wins a championship is not a cinderella story, but a team that goes 6-4 and wins a championship is?

[farmerfan]

A CINDERELLA STORY is about individuals or groups that embark on a goal that NO ONE gives them a chance to succeed at, either in the beginning, or at any point along the way... Its a feat that is so umimaginable considering the odds that were defied, that when it is reached, all those familiar with the accomplishment forever cherish the moment as one that they may never witness again...




anyone who agrees with this definition must also see the resemblence to the 02 slc team. no one gave slc a chance to win district and few a chance to make the po's. that is a fact that can easily be verified by dragging out old preseason polls and predictions. and almost no one on this site wasn't surprised to see the scores every week. had we done a bracket that year, i'd have been possibly the only one to get the d-2 title winner.

So half the teams that have won state titles could fit into that category? Who gave 95 Roosevelt a chance? Who gave 96 Lewisville a chance? Who gave 97 Marcus a chance? Who gave 98 Duncanville a chance? Who gave 01 Mesquite a chance? All those teams were in the same boat. What this is ultimately saying is that the 02 Dragons were one of the best state championship teams of all time.
If we say that, how can they fit into cinderella?

[dragonsdaddy]

you were reading a different paper than me. i never saw anyone mention slc as a state power until around week 7-8, when we started getting top ten votes. i think ap put us in the top ten in week 9. that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsemnet to me. ff, i beseach you to find proof of your statements, because believe me i was committed to that team, and i never saw them.

[dragonfootballfan]

So half the teams that have won state titles could fit into that category? Who gave 95 Roosevelt a chance? Who gave 96 Lewisville a chance? Who gave 97 Marcus a chance? Who gave 98 Duncanville a chance? Who gave 01 Mesquite a chance? All those teams were in the same boat. What this is ultimately saying is that the 02 Dragons were one of the best state championship teams of all time.
If we say that, how can they fit into cinderella?
Carroll moved up from 4A to 5A. How many of those teams listed did that?

[farmerfan]

Carroll moved up from 4A to 5A. How many of those teams listed did that?

They still were not given a chance. How many of those same teams can say they were semifinalist the previous year?

[Drake]

anyone who agrees with this definition must also see the resemblence to the 02 slc team. no one gave slc a chance to win district and few a chance to make the po's. that is a fact that can easily be verified by dragging out old preseason polls and predictions. and almost no one on this site wasn't surprised to see the scores every week. had we done a bracket that year, i'd have been possibly the only one to get the d-2 title winner.Just because no one saw you coming doesn't make it a Cinderella story... Were your athletes considerably outclassed at all levels? Did you really face insurmountable odds to get that championship? Looking back, does it even seem like a miracle at all? Teams win every year in different sports that weren't picked to win... It doesn't make them Cinderella stories...

In fact, since SLC continued to win after that probably DISQUALIFIES you from being a Cinderella story... Why? Because your continued success shows that you had the pieces in place to win big... Just because you never did it before and no one knew you could didn't make you an incredible underdog in 2002...

[rancher52]

so a team that was supposed to be 5-5 and wins a championship is not a cinderella story, but a team that goes 6-4 and wins a championship is?
I don't know anything about the history of the 6-4 team, but I do know history of SLC and it is really a stretch to consider what they did as a "rags to riches" story.....

[farmerfan]

you were reading a different paper than me. i never saw anyone mention slc as a state power until around week 7-8, when we started getting top ten votes. i think ap put us in the top ten in week 9. that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsemnet to me. ff, i beseach you to find proof of your statements, because believe me i was committed to that team, and i never saw them.

http://www.tonybianco.com/2002/02season.htm

southwest rankings towards bottom of page (http://news.lp.findlaw.com/ap/s/633/11-07-2005/aec00040b41b3ef6.html) l

Those other two are national polls, here is a link to the AP poll where Carroll emerges in week 6.

http://www.tisd.net/~wesleyu/ap025.html

[farmerfan]

you were reading a different paper than me. i never saw anyone mention slc as a state power until around week 7-8, when we started getting top ten votes. i think ap put us in the top ten in week 9. that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsemnet to me. ff, i beseach you to find proof of your statements, because believe me i was committed to that team, and i never saw them.

Here is another one that has Carroll ranked as early as week 4, but vaulted to number 1 in the state by week 6.

http://www.tisd.net/~wesleyu/cs025.html

[dragonsdaddy]

the marcus example is a fair one, but the others were long time 5a teams. slc and sv were "4a" teams and there was serious jealousies from the 5a groups who kmnew that they were better than the lowly 4as. ennis, lamarque, etal had been argueing their equality for years. slc proved it.

were there to have been a poll in the pre-season asking for likely winners that included fortuitously all the regional champs of that year, zero(save me) would have voted for slc, and i would have been mercilessly skewered for being such a foolish homer. another pool asking for the chances that slc make it to the semis would have been placed at less than 1%. no one even considered it as a possibility anywhere else but here.

[dragonfootballfan]

Were your athletes considerably outclassed at all levels?
Carroll was moving up to 5A from 4A. They had I think 1 division 1 senior on that team. I think that our athletes were "outclassed" as you say it.
Did you really face insurmountable odds to get that championship?
No team had ever moved up from one classification to another to win a state championship in the history of Texas football. Those sound like insurmountable odds.
Looking back, does it even seem like a miracle at all?
The game in Lufkin was a "miracle" victory that took 19 unanswered points in the last 12 minutes of the game.
In fact, since SLC continued to win after that probably DISQUALIFIES you from being a Cinderella story... Why? Because your continued success shows that you had the pieces in place to win big... Just because you never did it before and no one knew you could didn't make you an incredible underdog in 2002...
This is the most assinine of all of the points that you make. This is one year. They did something that no other team had ever done. They were a huge underdog that season. In fact, they were so much of an underdog that they were not ranked number one to start the preseason in 2003 and were chosen to be the second place team in their district in 2003 by some publications.

[dragonsdaddy]

Here is another one that has Carroll ranked as early as week 4, but vaulted to number 1 in the state by week 6.

http://www.tisd.net/~wesleyu/cs025.html
who's polls are these? they aren't named. they were ahead of the curve it seems. i wasn't aware there were lots of polls then. were they the famous power rankings? i bet we hit the calpreps about week 5 too. human polls would likely have been behind the recognition curve.

[farmerfan]

who's polls are these? they aren't named. they were ahead of the curve it seems. i wasn't aware there were lots of polls then. were they the famous power rankings? i bet we hit the calpreps about week 5 too. human polls would likely have been behind the recognition curve.


That poll is the collier-sharp poll. The one where Carroll emerges in week 6 in my first post of polls is the AP poll.

[farmerfan]

It was their first year in 5A. All of the newspapers and "experts" said 5-5 would be a great season and a playoff birth would be a bonus. That is how I remember the beginning of the season.

I have figured out why you are arguing with me. In 2002 your team the Lewisville Fighting Farmers performed a reverse cinderella. They went from riches to rags. Lewisville was preseason state ranked in the top 5. They went on to accomplish nothing and Carroll the new kids in 5A won district and state. Will your jealousy of the 2002 season stop?

still thinking about this post, sorry to bring it back up, but how have I shown any jealousy of Carroll? how have I not given them any credit for what they did in 2002?
why is it that people who disagree with you are all the sudden jealous of carroll? that might have been the most arrogant statement i have ever seen on this board.
If you knew anything about me you would know that I have done nothing but give respect to yoru football program. As DD stated earlier or later on this thread, I was one of the first ones on this board to take my crow and admit how good a football team the 02 Dragons had.
For you to assume jealousy on my part shows nothing but childish behavior. I never brought LHS into this mix you did, and as I stated earlier I have no reason to be jealous of Carroll.

[dragonfootballfan]

still thinking about this post, sorry to bring it back up, but how have I shown any jealousy of Carroll? how have I not given them any credit for what they did in 2002?
why is it that people who disagree with you are all the sudden jealous of carroll? that might have been the most arrogant statement i have ever seen on this board.
If you knew anything about me you would know that I have done nothing but give respect to yoru football program. As DD stated earlier or later on this thread, I was one of the first ones on this board to take my crow and admit how good a football team the 02 Dragons had.
For you to assume jealousy on my part shows nothing but childish behavior. I never brought LHS into this mix you did, and as I stated earlier I have no reason to be jealous of Carroll.
OK you are not jealous of Carroll and you have proved your point with that. I take back my original statement and apologize if your feelings got hurt.

[farmerfan]

OK you are not jealous of Carroll and you have proved your point with that. I take back my original statement and apologize if your feelings got hurt.


fellings not hurt, just pissed me off which is hard to do.

[dragonfootballfan]

fellings not hurt, just pissed me off which is hard to do.
I knew that I would hit a nerve with that comment and I am really good at pushing people's buttons and I probably should not have said what I did and I was even having second thoughts after I posted it. I respect you and your ability to keep arguments civil. I should not have brought that comment into it and again I apologize.

[crunked9]

Since SLC fans want to win everything (including the #1 Cinderella Story), if we start a thread as the #1 worst team of all time, will they want that too??

And you just like everyone else dont want carroll to win anything!

02 SLC was a cinderella weather you people like it or not. Looking back at the 50+ years of UIL and classifications, NO TEAM HAS EVER MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION AND WON A STATE TITLE!!! untill SLC did it in 02! This in its self shows that in no way in hell should SLC have won that years state championship!!! I think thats a pretty good reason to say they are a cinderella team! Yes, they did beat the crap out of everyone the first 10 games! but history and statistics said they werent going to win state! thats a fact jack!

[Drake]

And you just like everyone else dont want carroll to win anything!

02 SLC was a cinderella weather you people like it or not. Looking back at the 50+ years of UIL and classifications, NO TEAM HAS EVER MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION AND WON A STATE TITLE!!! untill SLC did it in 02! This in its self shows that in no way in hell should SLC have won that years state championship!!! I think thats a pretty good reason to say they are a cinderella team! Yes, they did beat the crap out of everyone the first 10 games! but history and statistics said they werent going to win state! thats a fact jack!Naw... they weren't even a Cinderella that year MUCH LESS the best of ALL TIME! LOL...

[dragonsdaddy]

and so quacks the duck. now if strake were to win a district title without voting away a loss, i'd declare them the cinderella story of the decade. until you are put in a soft district(sans kt), or get the recruiting machine rolling, taint happening.

[Drake]

and so quacks the duck. now if strake were to win a district title without voting away a loss, i'd declare them the cinderella story of the decade. until you are put in a soft district(sans kt), or get the recruiting machine rolling, taint happening.Okay, can see where this is going... Anyone disagrees with you, you respond by attacking that person... Therefore, I'll just agree with you...

South Lake Carroll's team of 2002 is the "Best Cinderella of all Time!" :rolleyes:

[maverick#23]

YES, SLC's '02 TEAM IS THE BEST CINDERELLA OF ALL TIME!

BUT NOT THE PRETTIEST!!!!!!!!!! :D

[dragonsdaddy]

Okay, can see where this is going... Anyone disagrees with you, you respond by attacking that person... Therefore, I'll just agree with you...

South Lake Carroll's team of 2002 is the "Best Cinderella of all Time!" :rolleyes:
let me see if i get this straight. you provide a definition for a subject. i agree and note the reasons why. it suddenly doesn't interpret the way you would like for it to, and now i'm the bad guy. seems about right.

[Drake]

let me see if i get this straight. you provide a definition for a subject. i agree and note the reasons why. it suddenly doesn't interpret the way you would like for it to, and now i'm the bad guy. seems about right.Whatever you say, I agree with.

[dragonsdaddy]

as i wrote earlier then,"the westbrook team was the one of which i was thinking. they are more of a cinderella than the french team, imo. the real clash of the titans."

[crunked9]

Naw... they weren't even a Cinderella that year MUCH LESS the best of ALL TIME! LOL...


hmm............. i think not! One word, UNSTOPPABLE!!!

[dragonsdaddy]

hmm............. i think not! One word, UNSTOPPABLE!!!
fisting his forehead winningly.

[dragonfootballfan]

hmm............. i think not! One word, UNSTOPPABLE!!!
POKEMON

[Dawg Fan]

A CINDERELLA STORY is about individuals or groups that embark on a goal that NO ONE gives them a chance to succeed at, either in the beginning, or at any point along the way... Its a feat that is so umimaginable considering the odds that were defied, that when it is reached, all those familiar with the accomplishment forever cherish the moment as one that they may never witness again...






2002 Midland High School is one the best Cinderalla stories except for a hail mary pass to lose the championship. 51 years since they were in the playoffs. No one gave them a chance in the playoffs against Duncanville,Arlington Lamar,Tyler Lee and last but not least Judson. All very strong teams and we almost pulled it off. It was an awesome year :)

[dragonfootballfan]

2002 Midland High School is one the best Cinderalla stories except for a hail mary pass to lose the championship. 51 years since they were in the playoffs. No one gave them a chance in the playoffs against Duncanville,Arlington Lamar,Tyler Lee and last but not least Judson. All very strong teams and we almost pulled it off. It was an awesome year :)
They were still a cinderella story

[Firebird]

How about 1995 San Antonio Roosevelt. They played 2nd fiddle all year long to the Judson Rockets in their district (who would go on to beat Odessa Permian in the DI title game-- a real "changing of the guard" moment). The SA Roosvelt Roughriders were making their first play-off appearance since 1985. They beat Austin Westlake in the semi-finals to earn a spot against a loaded and heavily Flower Mound Marcus team, which had absolutely ROLLED through the northern bracket. SA pulled off the upset, 17-10, peobably one of the most improbable modern-era 5A Division champions ever.

[v2the4]

I think the 2002 Midland team would have come the closest to the "Cinderella" definition as we all know it, but their coaches cost them that game.

Personally, I think a true definition of a cinderella would fit a perenial district bottom feeder, who out of the blue has a great year, goes deep into the playoffs and pulls upset after upset after upset, and eventually wins the state title.

I doubt we will ever see that happen in 5A football. the same cast of characters every year just reload and get ready to make deep runs: Katy, SLC, Judson, Lufkin, North Shore, Longview, Dallas Carter, Abilene, Smithson Valley, Westlake, andthe rest of the powerhouses.

when we start seeing bottom feeders from Houston, DFW, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, and the valley make the state football finals and win, then they will be a true cinderella story