QUESTION: JV vs Varsity Practice

[vtwinwilly]

Posted this on another board but decided it might get more traction here...
================================================== =======
Is it common for JV to practice with Varsity... Full contact?

Seems to me when I was in highschool - and that was a long time ago - once the season started, JV and Varsity never crossed paths.

Why do I ask...

My kid plays JV for McKinney Boyd. Last night the two JV teams they were taking on...

Boyd JV Blue vs Plano West JV
Boyd JV Red vs Plano Shepton (10th graders)

I looked out on the field, and Boyd JV Blue only had 24 players, vs Plano's West with over 60, best I could count.
Boyd JV Red was worse. They only had 21 players to Plano Sheptons 61 (I counted them).

After the game I picked up my son and 2 of the other players. On the way home I asked the 3 of them what happened to all the other players. They had 2 full teams just 6 weeks ago...

They all asnswered in unison... "They quit!"

When I asked why... they all agreed... "because they were tired having the crap beat out of them practicing with the varsity."

So I ask again... is this normal? <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_518254-->

[CCCSportsFan]

At SLC we also have 2 JV teams.

The sophomore team - Black - does not practice with the varisty. In fact they practice at a different field altogether and are self contained.

The JV Green team has a lot of players that "double dip", where they practice with the JV squad and then head over to the varsity practice. Double dipping is tough on the kids not only physically but because it takes up 3-4 hours of their day and makes quality study time tough to find. Howerver, it seems very few double dippers leave the team because of how close they are to making varsity and possibly getting some reps on Friday night.

The attrition from the Black team seems to involve kids leaving to focus on another sport/activity or leaving because they're not getting much, if any playing time. When you have 60+ kids on a team, it's tough for the 3rd or 4th string guys to get more than a handful of plays.

[PearlandDL09]

At pearland the JV A team first o and d is the scout team for varsity, running that weeks opponents offense and defense. Yeah, its not easy or anything and your probably gonna get popped hard alot. but you gotta earn your dues, i had to do it. And plus, if your going against a varsity all week in practice, then thursday night should be a cakewalk compared to practice.

[CedarHillDad]

At pearland the JV A team first o and d is the scout team for varsity, running that weeks opponents offense and defense. Yeah, its not easy or anything and your probably gonna get popped hard alot. but you gotta earn your dues, i had to do it. And plus, if your going against a varsity all week in practice, then thursday night should be a cakewalk compared to practice.

that is chill's philosophy as well

[2smooth07]

The life of a JV player is not the greatest...but quitting is not the answer...you gotta take your lumps and you never know when one of those JV players will become a superstar.

[StrongDog]

Posted this on another board but decided it might get more traction here...
================================================== =======
Is it common for JV to practice with Varsity... Full contact?

Seems to me when I was in highschool - and that was a long time ago - once the season started, JV and Varsity never crossed paths.

Why do I ask...

My kid plays JV for McKinney Boyd. Last night the two JV teams they were taking on...

Boyd JV Blue vs Plano West JV
Boyd JV Red vs Plano Shepton (10th graders)

I looked out on the field, and Boyd JV Blue only had 24 players vs Plano's West with over 60 best I could count.
Boyd JV Red was worse. They only had 21 players to Plano Sheptons 61 (I counted them).

After the game I picked up my son and 2 of the other players. On the way home I asked the 3 of them what happened to all the other players. They had 2 full teams just 6 weeks ago...

They all asnswered in unison... "They quit!"

When I asked why... they all agreed... "because they were tired having the crap beat out of them practicing with the varsity."

So I ask again... is this normal? <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_518254-->

It is very common for the JVs to scout for the varsity. You might get the JV o-line and backs to scout for the varsity D in inside drill. Or the opposite, Varsity O vs JV defense. Mainly this occurs because the Varsity doesn't want to risk injuring their own players. Where I played you did not dare touch the starting QB or RB in scout. It may seem unfair for the JV to get man handled day in and day out by bigger, stronger, and more experienced players, but it can be a learning experience for the JV. When you are playing against better players is practice everyday it can't help but make you a better player.

[SaRattlerFan]

One of the ways to get better is to play against better people. At SA Reagan, our JV practices with the varsity. In fact, the JV A team first teamers go against the varsity first teamers every day.

[vtwinwilly]

It is very common for the JVs to scout for the varsity. You might get the JV o-line and backs to scout for the varsity D in inside drill. Or the opposite, Varsity O vs JV defense. Mainly this occurs because the Varsity doesn't want to risk injuring their own players. Where I played you did not dare touch the starting QB or RB in scout. It may seem unfair for the JV to get man handled day in and day out by bigger, stronger, and more experienced players, but it can be a learning experience for the JV. When you are playing against better players is practice everyday it can't help but make you a better player.
That seemed to be the biggest complaint from the JV sqad. By the time the game rolls around on Thursday, they're beat to hell and have nothing left. As one of them said "... varsity has done a hell of a job softing us up for the opponent."

Anyway, its pretty apparant to me that Coach Drake and Company have a morale issue on their hands, that's led/leading to an attrition issue. My guess is they'll have to combine the Blue and the Red teams and just have a single JV team cancelling the remainder of the Red team schedule.

UPDATE:
Just found out..., Boyd had this problem last year also. They lost so many JV players, they ended up combining the two teams. So I guess this is the way they "cull the herd..." so to speak.:cool:

[atx]

JV gets the crap beat out of them vs the varsity. Thats how it has worked in high school since the 1960's. It's just how it is.

Those who can't handle it quit and never make it to varsity.

[d-train]

Posted this on another board but decided it might get more traction here...
================================================== =======
Is it common for JV to practice with Varsity... Full contact?

Seems to me when I was in highschool - and that was a long time ago - once the season started, JV and Varsity never crossed paths.

Why do I ask...

My kid plays JV for McKinney Boyd. Last night the two JV teams they were taking on...

Boyd JV Blue vs Plano West JV
Boyd JV Red vs Plano Shepton (10th graders)

I looked out on the field, and Boyd JV Blue only had 24 players vs Plano's West with over 60 best I could count.
Boyd JV Red was worse. They only had 21 players to Plano Sheptons 61 (I counted them).

After the game I picked up my son and 2 of the other players. On the way home I asked the 3 of them what happened to all the other players. They had 2 full teams just 6 weeks ago...

They all asnswered in unison... "They quit!"

When I asked why... they all agreed... "because they were tired having the crap beat out of them practicing with the varsity."

So I ask again... is this normal? <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_518254-->
When I was in school, varsity didn't scrimmage JV, nor did we practice together. Schools that have the JV as their scout team, rarely have great JV's , because they spend to much time running opponents schemes rather than teaching their own. Same problem at some local schools, where JV is not competative and they lose to many players from quitting also. Most JVs are 10th graders that are still learning, and getting roughed up by juniors and seniors is a waste of time. We once went undefeated nearly 4 years on JV, and these kids grow as a team/family and they become better players, so that you have a group of winning to replace the seniors, and then you can have two classes of winners making up the varsity, instead of kids that struggles on varsity as sophmores, and a group of scout teamers that got beat all week in practice and in the games vs JV teams that were coached like a varsity team, which we were. The best programs don't do it this way. I bet the teams that have their JV sophmores play varsity scout team, don't win that much? SLC has it the right way, JV/10th wins and JV/11th scout for varsity. 10th grade teams are for player development, 11th graders are folks that know the system, but are just not good enough to play yet.

[RRSP1]

Yep, other parents told us from the start: JV is all about getting varsity ready.

I guess a lot depends on how the coaches set the atmosphere. The JV guys I speak with seem to relish taking on the varsity because, every now and then, they get a good lick in that light the coaches up.

[Jayhawker]

If I was on JV -- I would take the opportunity to "light up" someone on varsity and get me my chance to play.

I would rather hit then be hit;)!

[atwelljroc]

My son is off playing College ball now at a small school in Kansas(yes, on full scholarship)...he was a young student, by this I mean he graduated at 17 years old and even started college at that age...back to the thread...

As a 13 year old freshman, at Judson...he started on the O-line...by the next year, he had fallen behind physically, he was 6-4, 240 pounds, but strength had not yet come and had to play what we call Sub-varsity...10th graders and some juniors that just did not have the talent to play on our JV squad...when he became a Junior, they left him on JV and he was disappointed, but getting to play against the varsity squad each week kept him interested in football...not mad cause he got the snot beat out of him by the 1st team varsity "D", but that he got to show what he had each and every week to those coaches that held him back...

On JV he was the team leader, he worked hard, learned everyones blocking assignments on the line for each play and was able to help others when needed...

Then the summer before his senior year he worked as hard as he could knowing he had earned his chance at a varsity spot, he beat out 2 other lineman that had played the year before at his spot on varsity, he "earned that spot"...I guess I am trying to say that being on Sub or JV is not the worst thing to happen, sure he got beat upon and tossed, tested and had his doubts, but he got his playing time on these squads where he would have just sit the bench on the varsity team...I much rathered him starting and playing Sub-varsity and JV than standing on the sideline for other games...oh yeah, he did stand on the sidelines for some of the games for varsity...he got rewarded for his hard play on Sub and JV by getting to dress for varsity games...his senior year they made the state finals and was seen by a university that wanted him...it is all just part of earning the spot you want...if you want it bad enough you will stick with it and take the hard knocks and disappointments that come, but if you can stick with it, your dreams can come true...

Facts from my Pastor here where I work, Community Bible Church...he states that only 7% of kids get to play their choosen sport in college...only 3% get any kind of scholarship toward that sport...and less than 1% ever get a chance to play that sport for a living...So kids out there...ENJOY these days, these tough practices, the tough two-a-days, the 100 degree heat...cause as a 45 year old Dad, I can tell you...you will miss it!!! You will wish for one more chance to play this great sport called "FOOTBALL":):)

[BlackAttack]

That seemed to be the biggest complaint from the JV sqad. By the time the game rolls around on Thursday, they're beat to hell and have nothing left. As one of them said "... varsity has done a hell of a job softing us up for the opponent."

Anyway, its pretty apparant to me that Coach Drake and Company have a morale issue on their hands, that's led/leading to an attrition issue. My guess is they'll have to combine the Blue and the Red teams and just have a single JV team cancelling the remainder of the Red team schedule.

UPDATE:
Just found out..., Boyd had this problem last year also. They lost so many JV players, they ended up combining the two teams. So I guess this is the way they "cull the herd..." so to speak.:cool:

Most places use the JV to be scout for varsity. Plus, to address your complaint directly, frankly it ain't about JV. Winning at the JV level is secondary to learning and getting better. So no team (that is in their right mind) is going to change philosophies just so the JV can win more games.

[d-train]

Most places use the JV to be scout for varsity. Plus, to address your complaint directly, frankly it ain't about JV. Winning at the JV level is secondary to learning and getting better. So no team (that is in their right mind) is going to change philosophies just so the JV can win more games.
Don't change philosophy, just get more kids in the program! Sophmores need to develop, unless they are super-talented. The 10th graders should be seperate, 11th graders can be varsity scout teamers. Teams that have their sophmores as scout teamers are not going to be consistent winners or state powers. Winning is contageous and best programs win at all levels on all teams in class 5A.

[vtwinwilly]

... Plus, to address your complaint directly, frankly it ain't about JV. ...
"Complaint" is far to strong of a word. Let's just call it a discussion.

It's the kids on the JV Sqad complaining... I'm just questioning the wisdom. The more I think about it... I think D-Train is right on track (pun intended).

... The best programs don't do it this way. I bet the teams that have their JV sophmores play varsity scout team, don't win that much? SLC has it the right way, JV/10th wins and JV/11th scout for varsity. 10th grade teams are for player development, 11th graders are folks that know the system, but are just not good enough to play yet.
This is consistent with what I have seen, and is consistent with what I've seen my boy and his teammates do over the last 3-4 years. Most of them have been playing together since 7th grade, and have grown as a team. In fact, last year, as the Freshman Blue team, they were 10-0, they were winners and morale was high. I had high hopes these kids would continue to develop together, and someday be the varsity force to be reckoned with.

This all worked great until this year when they broke up the team, sent a a few of the sophmores to varsity, and turned the rest into tackling dummies.

I can understand how working out against a better opponent will make you better, and I suppose I wouldn't question the practice so much if I could see how this really helps the varsity. They're practicing against younger, smaller, less experienced players. That seems to defy logic.

I think I'm sticking with D-Train on this one.

[vtwinwilly]

Don't change philosophy, just get more kids in the program! Sophmores need to develop, unless they are super-talented. The 10th graders should be seperate, 11th graders can be varsity scout teamers. Teams that have their sophmores as scout teamers are not going to be consistent winners or state powers. Winning is contageous and best programs win at all levels on all teams in class 5A.
Bingo!!!

Can I forward this to Coach Drake?

[StrongDog]

When I was in school, varsity didn't scrimmage JV, nor did we practice together. Schools that have the JV as their scout team, rarely have great JV's , because they spend to much time running opponents schemes rather than teaching their own. Same problem at some local schools, where JV is not competative and they lose to many players from quitting also. Most JVs are 10th graders that are still learning, and getting roughed up by juniors and seniors is a waste of time. We once went undefeated nearly 4 years on JV, and these kids grow as a team/family and they become better players, so that you have a group of winning to replace the seniors, and then you can have two classes of winners making up the varsity, instead of kids that struggles on varsity as sophmores, and a group of scout teamers that got beat all week in practice and in the games vs JV teams that were coached like a varsity team, which we were. The best programs don't do it this way. I bet the teams that have their JV sophmores play varsity scout team, don't win that much? SLC has it the right way, JV/10th wins and JV/11th scout for varsity. 10th grade teams are for player development, 11th graders are folks that know the system, but are just not good enough to play yet.

I have to respectfully disagree on this point. I know many programs, and good programs that utilize the JV for scouting. I played on the JV as a sophomore and after we went 9-1, we got to continue practicing with the varsity for five more weeks into the playoffs before losing in the semis. Thats five extra weeks we got in full pads that other programs didn't. Basically another spring ball. We, as the JV squad got to work on our skills against one of the top teams in the state. I see that as an advantage for top programs who are repeatedly in the playoffs. I don't believe that smart JV players see scrimmaging the Varsity as a chore, but more as a stepping stone to the Varsity level.

[dada]

We ALWAYS practiced against the varsity...served as the scout team. Sometimes we got the crap beat out of us...sometimes we held our own which gave us confidence "If we can play with our Varsity, we can play with any JV team"
We didnt have Freshman A and B and stuff like that...it was 3 teams...Varsity, JV and Freshman.

[rownorserow]

JV players make good "scout-teamers". Plus, they should get about 10-15 minutes/day of team/special teams.

[bake34]

We ALWAYS practiced against the varsity...served as the scout team. Sometimes we got the crap beat out of us...sometimes we held our own which gave us confidence "If we can play with our Varsity, we can play with any JV team"
We didnt have Freshman A and B and stuff like that...it was 3 teams...Varsity, JV and Freshman.

At Garland JV practices with the varsity....runsscout team some and practices head up some...i don't see much wrong with it....toughens um' up that's for sure...

[atx]

When your son is a senior, your whole perception will change on this subject and it will make sense.

[dada]

I always thought, you can indicate a schools future on the Freshman and sophomore teams...that's where they learn the system.....I think the JV is just a holding pen....I mean the stud JV players are probably on Varsity anyway....I think the JV players have to be ready to be called up at anytime during the season....just my opinion.

[d-train]

I have to respectfully disagree on this point. I know many programs, and good programs that utilize the JV for scouting. I played on the JV as a sophomore and after we went 9-1, we got to continue practicing with the varsity for five more weeks into the playoffs before losing in the semis. Thats five extra weeks we got in full pads that other programs didn't. Basically another spring ball. We, as the JV squad got to work on our skills against one of the top teams in the state. I see that as an advantage for top programs who are repeatedly in the playoffs. I don't believe that smart JV players see scrimmaging the Varsity as a chore, but more as a stepping stone to the Varsity level.
How many JV teams did your school have? Did they have a sophmore team and a junior/varsity scrub squad or a mixture? Teams that have poor turnouts and rely on athletes are not as consistent and do not win like Carroll and Trinity or Judson. Our coaches didn't bring the entire JV up for the playoffs, only certain players, the others went into off season football. Bringing JVs up for playoffs is great, because after 10 games the sophmores are a lot bettter. Were you guys the scout team in the regular season? What school were you at? I went to Reagan, we had 80-100 9th graders, 65 JV, 60 were sophmores, all on one team and very good, and 45-50 varsity, mostly very seasoned juniors and seniors that were well schooled in the wishbone and the 52 defense.

[JagFan]

At Flower Mound the coaches pick certain players to be the practice team for Varsity from the two JV teams. If playoffs are made then those players get moved up.

[CCParent]

How many JV teams did your school have? Did they have a sophmore team and a junior/varsity scrub squad or a mixture? Teams that have poor turnouts and rely on athletes are not as consistent and do not win like Carroll and Trinity or Judson. Our coaches didn't bring the entire JV up for the playoffs, only certain players, the others went into off season football. Bringing JVs up for playoffs is great, because after 10 games the sophmores are a lot bettter. Were you guys the scout team in the regular season? What school were you at? I went to Reagan, we had 80-100 9th graders, 65 JV, 60 were sophmores, all on one team and very good, and 45-50 varsity, mostly very seasoned juniors and seniors that were well schooled in the wishbone and the 52 defense.
How many players does Reagan have now? I thought so. Like usual the majority doesn't agree with you on this matter neither do most of the HS's around.

[StrongDog]

How many JV teams did your school have? Did they have a sophmore team and a junior/varsity scrub squad or a mixture? Teams that have poor turnouts and rely on athletes are not as consistent and do not win like Carroll and Trinity or Judson. Our coaches didn't bring the entire JV up for the playoffs, only certain players, the others went into off season football. Bringing JVs up for playoffs is great, because after 10 games the sophmores are a lot bettter. Were you guys the scout team in the regular season? What school were you at? I went to Reagan, we had 80-100 9th graders, 65 JV, 60 were sophmores, all on one team and very good, and 45-50 varsity, mostly very seasoned juniors and seniors that were well schooled in the wishbone and the 52 defense.

We had two JV squads, they were both mixed sophomores and juniors on both teams. Even are freshman teams practiced (in a different period) into the playoffs. All the JV continued to practice in the playoffs, and primarily the ones and twos scrimmaged for the varsity while the other players either scrimmaged against each other or worked on skills. The point I was trying make was that it is beneficial for JV players to be on the field going against the varsity constantly, you cant help but get better.

[d-train]

How many players does Reagan have now? I thought so. Like usual the majority doesn't agree with you on this matter neither do most of the HS's around.
Straight WRONG! All the best programs, HP, Katy, LT, Judson, Trinity... ALL operate that way! The teams with low numbers like Garland, Longview... do it that way. The dominant programs win on EVERY level! SLC SWEPT Marcus on the sub-varsity teams!

[CCParent]

Straight WRONG! All the best programs, HP, Katy, LT, Judson, Trinity... ALL operate that way! The teams with low numbers like Garland, Longview... do it that way. The dominant programs win on EVERY level! SLC SWEPT Marcus on the sub-varsity teams!
Like usual no examples around here you can put a poll on this and I guarantee you the majority uses the JV as the scout team. Not 1 or 2 here or there. We were doing this back in the 70's and it's still prevalent. If that's the case then why didn't LT JV beat us last year?:Censor:

[a-hi eagle2309]

When I was in school, varsity didn't scrimmage JV, nor did we practice together. Schools that have the JV as their scout team, rarely have great JV's , because they spend to much time running opponents schemes rather than teaching their own. Same problem at some local schools, where JV is not competative and they lose to many players from quitting also. Most JVs are 10th graders that are still learning, and getting roughed up by juniors and seniors is a waste of time. We once went undefeated nearly 4 years on JV, and these kids grow as a team/family and they become better players, so that you have a group of winning to replace the seniors, and then you can have two classes of winners making up the varsity, instead of kids that struggles on varsity as sophmores, and a group of scout teamers that got beat all week in practice and in the games vs JV teams that were coached like a varsity team, which we were. The best programs don't do it this way. I bet the teams that have their JV sophmores play varsity scout team, don't win that much? SLC has it the right way, JV/10th wins and JV/11th scout for varsity. 10th grade teams are for player development, 11th graders are folks that know the system, but are just not good enough to play yet.

Abilene uses their JV as a scout team, and our JV is undefeated. It really does toughen you up and gets you ready for friday nights. Plus it makes thursday nights a joke compared to what they've been going against during the week. As a reward, when playoffs come around, our JV gets moved up to the V.

Sounds to me like Boyd has a bunch of Can't-Hack-Its and the coach needs to change the mindsets at that school.

[Plano West Wolf]

At West the JV practices with the varsity. JV offense vs Varsity Defense and visa versa. If players can't handle that, then they don't deserve to be on the team. You're suppose to be tough to play football.

[Plano West Wolf]

Abilene uses their JV as a scout team, and our JV is undefeated. It really does toughen you up and gets you ready for friday nights. Plus it makes thursday nights a joke compared to what they've been going against during the week. As a reward, when playoffs come around, our JV gets moved up to the V.

Sounds to me like Boyd has a bunch of Can't-Hack-Its and the coach needs to change the mindsets at that school.

Word.

[CCParent]

Abilene uses their JV as a scout team, and our JV is undefeated. It really does toughen you up and gets you ready for friday nights. Plus it makes thursday nights a joke compared to what they've been going against during the week. As a reward, when playoffs come around, our JV gets moved up to the V.

Sounds to me like Boyd has a bunch of Can't-Hack-Its and the coach needs to change the mindsets at that school.
Thanks for helping me make my point. :D

[CCParent]

At West the JV practices with the varsity. JV offense vs Varsity Defense and visa versa. If players can't handle that, then they don't deserve to be on the team. You're suppose to be tough to play football. Thank you also for helping me make my point.:notworthy

[a-hi eagle2309]

Thanks for helping me make my point. :D

Anytime my friend

[a-hi eagle2309]

The only thing that i could see that would be wrong with this method is if the Varsity is purposely picking on the JV and taking cheap shots. If this is the case, then the coaches need to step in....

[MemorialMustangs]

I know that our JV runs the plays of the other team against our varsity so the varsity can prepare... But other than that im not sure

[austin pride]

Posted this on another board but decided it might get more traction here...
================================================== =======
Is it common for JV to practice with Varsity... Full contact?

Seems to me when I was in highschool - and that was a long time ago - once the season started, JV and Varsity never crossed paths.

Why do I ask...

My kid plays JV for McKinney Boyd. Last night the two JV teams they were taking on...

Boyd JV Blue vs Plano West JV
Boyd JV Red vs Plano Shepton (10th graders)

I looked out on the field, and Boyd JV Blue only had 24 players, vs Plano's West with over 60, best I could count.
Boyd JV Red was worse. They only had 21 players to Plano Sheptons 61 (I counted them).

After the game I picked up my son and 2 of the other players. On the way home I asked the 3 of them what happened to all the other players. They had 2 full teams just 6 weeks ago...

They all asnswered in unison... "They quit!"

When I asked why... they all agreed... "because they were tired having the crap beat out of them practicing with the varsity."

So I ask again... is this normal? <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_518254-->
Here in Fort Bend isn't common for us to scrimmage against varsity about once a week.