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the_phoenix612
09-24-2008, 12:14 AM
that conservatives ignore the facts, especially when they're wrong!
http://bsalert.com/news/2396/Scientific_Study_Shows_Conservatives_Arent_Interes ted_In_Truth.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html


Political scientists Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler provided two groups of volunteers with the Bush administration's prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. One group was given a refutation -- the comprehensive 2004 Duelfer report that concluded that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction before the United States invaded in 2003. Thirty-four percent of conservatives told only about the Bush administration's claims thought Iraq had hidden or destroyed its weapons before the U.S. invasion, but 64 percent of conservatives who heard both claim and refutation thought that Iraq really did have the weapons. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.

:ninja::D:eek:

jtk1519
09-24-2008, 12:24 AM
Bush himself didn't believe Iraq had WMDs, but when the director of the CIA sits in your office and tells you otherwise and labels such info as a "slam dunk", this is what happens.

the_phoenix612
09-24-2008, 12:27 AM
Bush himself didn't believe Iraq had WMDs, but when the director of the CIA sits in your office and tells you otherwise and labels such info as a "slam dunk", this is what happens.

i dont wanna debate whether they had WMDs right now.

i wanna talk about the study, which says that when confronted with facts to the contrary of what they believe, conservatives cling MORE tightly to their false beliefs by a 2-1 ratio.
:cool:

jtk1519
09-24-2008, 12:53 AM
i dont wanna debate whether they had WMDs right now.

i wanna talk about the study, which says that when confronted with facts to the contrary of what they believe, conservatives cling MORE tightly to their false beliefs by a 2-1 ratio.
:cool:

I'm aware and give the study no credence as it equates "conservatives" to "Republicans" when in fact we know that the Republican party has all but abandoned conservative ideals. Furthermore, it has been some of the last remnants of true conservatism in the political structure who have been the most vocal in their opposition of many of the Bush administration's moves (Alan Keyes, Ron Paul, etc.). To try and equate conservatives to Republicans is like trying to say the Kansas City Chiefs are a good team... at one point in history they were, but times have changed and that assertion is no longer true. Because of that inherent flaw, that study is not worth the time it has taken to refute it. It's nothing more than a calculated attempt to further divide a nation on imaginary and worthless lines. It offers no true, useful scientific data whatsoever.

SLC
09-24-2008, 12:56 AM
Bush himself didn't believe Iraq had WMDs, but when the director of the CIA sits in your office and tells you otherwise and labels such info as a "slam dunk", this is what happens.

And I'm not real sure the CIA believed it either... Just the pressure to produce something of substance and may start to believe what the voices are saying as opposed to everything you were trained to see.

Warbird
09-24-2008, 01:03 AM
i dont wanna debate whether they had WMDs right now.

i wanna talk about the study, which says that when confronted with facts to the contrary of what they believe, conservatives cling MORE tightly to their false beliefs by a 2-1 ratio.
:cool:

So, is conservatism now qualified as some sort of mental illness? Do I now get to park in a handicapped spot? Can I get more off my college tuition for my apparent learning disability?

Nice selective quoting. Dems are hardly immune to this stuff, either. Granted, their disapproval on the abortion issue did drop, but only by a measly eight percent. People are naturally defensive and this study may well have gotten hold of a particularly reactionary group of conservatives. Big whoop. I could march down to Berkley, CA and present them with all sorts of facts about Reaganomics and it would likely drive their dogmatism into overdrive.

Of course, by posting this article, anyone who disagrees with you is naturally just clinging "MORE tightly" to their supposedly misguided beliefs. You get to say that you crowed the sun up and feel superior. Congrats. Circular logic=fail.

jtk1519
09-24-2008, 01:08 AM
And I'm not real sure the CIA believed it either... Just the pressure to produce something of substance and may start to believe what the voices are saying as opposed to everything you were trained to see.

The CIA didn't believe it. In fact, the CIA had evidence showing otherwise. So did the State Department. Problem was that the DoD pursued and advanced intelligence that was shaky to say the least and used that as the backbone to go to war. When push came to shove though, despite knowing the intel was suspect, George Tennet didn't have the stones to stand up and say so. In fact, he went along and backed unreliable intel and as the President, when you have your VP, SoD and CIA director telling you one thing, it's almost impossible to deny it.

SLC
09-24-2008, 01:38 AM
The CIA didn't believe it. In fact, the CIA had evidence showing otherwise. So did the State Department. Problem was that the DoD pursued and advanced intelligence that was shaky to say the least and used that as the backbone to go to war. When push came to shove though, despite knowing the intel was suspect, George Tennet didn't have the stones to stand up and say so. In fact, he went along and backed unreliable intel and as the President, when you have your VP, SoD and CIA director telling you one thing, it's almost impossible to deny it.

this

DragonBand06
09-24-2008, 02:12 AM
So what are you trying to accomplish here? Prove that republicans are stupid? Indict Bush in some stupid "you-knew-this-was-a-bad-idea-but-took-us-to-war-anyway" lawsuit? The past is the past and the future is the future. The present does not exist and therefore the only thing you should be worrying about is the future and making sure we don't make more stupid mistakes, instead of pointing fingers.

chhspantherfan
09-24-2008, 07:18 AM
i dont wanna debate whether they had WMDs right now.

i wanna talk about the study, which says that when confronted with facts to the contrary of what they believe, conservatives cling MORE tightly to their false beliefs by a 2-1 ratio.
:cool:

and you can find a study with a sample group that will provide you with whatever conclusion that you want to draw. ;)

SLC
09-24-2008, 09:39 AM
and you can find a study with a sample group that will provide you with whatever conclusion that you want to draw. ;)

You really could.... You could just label all sorts of issues out on the wheel on wheel of fortune and where ever it stops thats the subject... And you could find 10 different groups with 10 different conclusions from either side of the aisle.

the_phoenix612
09-24-2008, 11:28 AM
So what are you trying to accomplish here? Prove that republicans are stupid? Indict Bush in some stupid "you-knew-this-was-a-bad-idea-but-took-us-to-war-anyway" lawsuit? The past is the past and the future is the future. The present does not exist and therefore the only thing you should be worrying about is the future and making sure we don't make more stupid mistakes, instead of pointing fingers.

no, i just enjoy getting you guys riled up :Music:ninja:

Fleeman93
09-24-2008, 11:41 AM
I know someone said they didn't want to dispute the WMD issue but isn't it relevant to the accusations?

My question about the WMD is that, if I am not mistaken, we know that Iraq had them at some point because we know Iraq used them on their own people. So if they had them at some point and now they don't then where did they go?


Please correct me if any of this is wrong.

the_phoenix612
09-24-2008, 01:21 PM
I know someone said they didn't want to dispute the WMD issue but isn't it relevant to the accusations?

My question about the WMD is that, if I am not mistaken, we know that Iraq had them at some point because we know Iraq used them on their own people. So if they had them at some point and now they don't then where did they go?


Please correct me if any of this is wrong.

We know Iraq HAD them, but the intel that we apparently had said that they had them in 2003.

THAT was the justification for invading a sovereign country and displacing or killing millions of its citizens.

jtk1519
09-24-2008, 02:06 PM
We know Iraq HAD them, but the intel that we apparently had said that they had them in 2003.

THAT was the justification for invading a sovereign country and displacing or killing millions of its citizens.

And we had that intel because Saddam was leaking it. He admitted before he was executed that he intentionally leaked false intel on Iraq's WMD program to make Iraq seem like it was better able to defend itself thus preventing the US or anybody else from invading. Saddam knew that any invading power would roll right over Baghdad and sure enough, we did. He bluffed... we called him on it. If that had been the end of it, nobody would care. People still wouldn't care that we never found all the WMDs... if the troops were home. The problem is and always has been post-war Iraq.

CKE
09-24-2008, 02:10 PM
So, is conservatism now qualified as some sort of mental illness? Do I now get to park in a handicapped spot? Can I get more off my college tuition for my apparent learning disability?

Nice selective quoting. Dems are hardly immune to this stuff, either. Granted, their disapproval on the abortion issue did drop, but only by a measly eight percent. People are naturally defensive and this study may well have gotten hold of a particularly reactionary group of conservatives. Big whoop. I could march down to Berkley, CA and present them with all sorts of facts about Reaganomics and it would likely drive their dogmatism into overdrive.

Of course, by posting this article, anyone who disagrees with you is naturally just clinging "MORE tightly" to their supposedly misguided beliefs. You get to say that you crowed the sun up and feel superior. Congrats. Circular logic=fail.
This