Best WR in the Big XII?

[BAMF cowboy]

Crabtree? Maclin?

Nope.

Dez Bryant. The kid is a freak.

9 catches for 236 yards and 3 TDs and a 71 yard punt return TD tonight.

[yankee]

okie liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt tttttttteeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jtk1519]

Best WR in the trailer park state. There it ends.

[LP-79]

Crabtree? Maclin?

Nope.

Dez Bryant. The kid is a freak.

9 catches for 236 yards and 3 TDs and a 71 yard punt return TD tonight.

People have been saying that about him since he was a sophmore. Glad to see he is finally maturing and acting like a man. Only bad thing I ever heard about him in high school was that he acted way to immature about some things. I think Okie Lite has him this year and next year. Enjoy watching him cause then he will be a first round draft choice for a pro team.

[yankee]

Best WR in the trailer park state. There it ends.

LOL at tu's suck receivers!

[jtk1519]

LOL at tu's suck receivers!

I don't know why Tulsa can't recruit better WRs. They seem to pull in some good QBs.

[yankee]

I don't know why Tulsa can't recruit better WRs. They seem to pull in some good QBs.

http://i38.tinypic.com/333d9qd.jpg

[GameTyme]

Best WR in the trailer park state. There it ends.


Dez is by far better then any WR's the Horns have and im a Horn fan. Maclin is better then Dez in the retun game well was better then Dez.

Bryant is miles ahead of Iglasias. Crabtree is great and proly the closet WR to Dez yeah the what ever winner is the 2nd closet, but Dez physicall body and talent wise is a top 3 WR in the country right now. No defensive back will be able to to stop him. Just gotta hop he has a bad game but even then a bad game he will make circus like catches.

[LP-79]

With Dez's physical play and leaping ability the fade pass is a great weapon. He will win 98% of the battles against the defenders. Plus I noticed that his route running is very much improved, plus he has always been good on downfield blocking for others

[Ballaholic]

1. Crabtree
2. Dez Bryant
3. Iglasias
4. Quan Cosby

5. Everybody else

[jtk1519]

Dez is by far better then any WR's the Horns have and im a Horn fan.

Ummmm... okay. Who said otherwise?

[GameTyme]

With Dez's physical play and leaping ability the fade pass is a great weapon. He will win 98% of the battles against the defenders. Plus I noticed that his route running is very much improved, plus he has always been good on downfield blocking for others


After his JR I expect Dez to be the firt WR taken in the draft. Look at him right now physically the best WR in the Big 12 if not the country. Crab is good but Dez is just a freak and this will be the season everbody will see what us Lufkin folk have been saying for a few years now. When the ball is in the air it's his. Best jumball leaper in the country, and it's not close.

After watching him retun punts can help but to think why Outlaw didnt let him do it here. Dez also is alot faster at OSU then he was at Lufkin. After looking at him this season i fill for my horns I think we can beat OSU but Dez will or is going to have a field day with Beasley unless we give him help. Beasly got mossed by that guy from UTEP. tonight for 6 can only imagine what Dez will do to him.

[GameTyme]

Ummmm... okay. Who said otherwise?


Clearly you said best WR in the Trailer Park state and it ends there.

The only WR I am willing to hear an argument about is Crabtree.

I love the Horns but damn Mack Brown you coulndt keep him from going to OSU. Just like it looks like Mack Brown is loosing out on McFarland hate to say it but you heard it first here. J Mac will be a Tiger and ill let you guess where. If Dez where at Texas right now then this would be a NC contender but I still think UT has a shot.

[svhorns]

Clearly you said best WR in the Trailer Park state and it ends there.

The only WR I am willing to hear an argument about is Crabtree.

I love the Horns but damn Mack Brown you coulndt keep him from going to OSU. Just like it looks like Mack Brown is loosing out on McFarland hate to say it but you heard it first here. J Mac will be a Tiger and ill let you guess where. If Dez where at Texas right now then this would be a NC contender but I still think UT has a shot.

you're serious aren't you?

[jtk1519]

you're serious aren't you?

I think he is.

[GoOwls]

Dez is by far better then any WR's the Horns have and im a Horn fan. Maclin is better then Dez in the retun game well was better then Dez.

Bryant is miles ahead of Iglasias. Crabtree is great and proly the closet WR to Dez yeah the what ever winner is the 2nd closet, but Dez physicall body and talent wise is a top 3 WR in the country right now. No defensive back will be able to to stop him. Just gotta hop he has a bad game but even then a bad game he will make circus like catches.

What's a closet WR.....does it mean out of the closet....or in the closet....I'm confused....what does the 2nd closet have to do with it????:confused:

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Ummm.... Dez Bryant is a beast, but c'mon.. he caught 9 passes for 253 yds and 3 tds... vs COUGAR HIGH!!! Only 3 players caught passes for Okie Lite, last night.. and only one of them caught a td (Bryant). OU's Bradford completed passes to 9 different players and 4 caught tds. Iglesias caught 3 passes for 67 yds (22.9 ypc) and Broyles (who emerged as the next big explosive weapon for OU) averaged 20.1 ypc with a td. Cincy had 3 legit NFL prospects (Jones, Underwood, Mickens) in their Secondary... how many did Cougar High have?? It's unfortunate that QB-Grutza is lost for about a month now, due to being injured vs OU. He would've led Cincy to the Big East Title, IMO. Out of all the games played by Big XII teams, yesterday... OU - by far - played the toughest opponent. Lets wait until conference to determine the #1 WR's, RB's and etc.

[slorch]

Ummm.... Dez Bryant is a beast, but c'mon.. he caught 9 passes for 253 yds and 3 tds... vs COUGAR HIGH!!! Only 3 players caught passes for Okie Lite, last night.. and only one of them caught a td (Bryant). OU's Bradford completed passes to 9 different players and 4 caught tds. Iglesias caught 3 passes for 67 yds (22.9 ypc) and Broyles (who emerged as the next big explosive weapon for OU) averaged 20.1 ypc with a td. Cincy had 3 legit NFL prospects (Jones, Underwood, Mickens) in their Secondary... how many did Cougar High have?? It's unfortunate that QB-Grutza is lost for about a month now, due to being injured vs OU. He would've led Cincy to the Big East Title, IMO. Out of all the games played by Big XII teams, yesterday... OU - by far - played the toughest opponent. Lets wait until conference to determine the #1 WR's, RB's and etc.



why you gotta rain on da homers' parade?:D

[DragonBand06]

Can we combine all these Dez Bryant threads? :)

[slorch]

Crabtree? Maclin?

Nope.

Dez Bryant. The kid is a freak.

9 catches for 236 yards and 3 TDs and a 71 yard punt return TD tonight.

based on one game...against a high school team...OK.

[Sicemhorns09]

1. Crabtree
2. Dez Bryant
3. Iglasias
4. Quan Cosby

5. Everybody else

You lose all credibility when Maclin does not appear on that list.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

So far, if I had to pick the Top 10 best WR's (for 2008) in the Big XII they'd be...

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite)
2. Brandon Banks (K-State)
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU)
4. Ryan Broyles (OU)
5. Nate Swift (Neb)
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State)
7. Michael Crabtree (TT)
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan)
9. Quan Cosby (Tex)
10. Detron Lewis (TT)

(Maclin would be in, but he is only averaging 8.5 yds per reception. Now, he has a rushing td and a KO return.... so he'd be an excellent if I were doing an All-Purpose list! He should be at the top of this list in no time!)

Like I said, earlier, this is based off of sweetcake schedules. It'd be interesting to see what this list looks like in about 6 weeks.

[SLC]

Crabtree? Maclin?

Nope.

Dez Bryant. The kid is a freak.

9 catches for 236 yards and 3 TDs and a 71 yard punt return TD tonight.


Clearly if you take homerisms out of it, it has to be Crabtree. We would all love to pick some player from our team, but be honest, not a homer. It's Michael Crabtree.:rolleyes:

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Clearly if you take homerisms out of it, it has to be Crabtree. We would all love to pick some player from our team, but be honest, not a homer. It's Michael Crabtree.:rolleyes:

Well, Crabtree's averaging 14.4 yds per reception, just like last year. Adarius Bowman averaged over 17 yds last year and Bryant is averaging over 20 yds, this year. The point being... if you throw the ball to a kid 150 times (and he averages 14.4 ypc) he'll likely have the numbers Crabtree put up, last year.

If Bryant stays on the current path of how many catches Crabtree (134) had, last year - given his 20.4 ypc/1 td in ever 5 receptions average -he'll end up with 2,734 yds and 27 tds. The only thing Bryant is missing is a system in which a QB will throw him the ball 140-150 times in a season!

[slorch]

Well, Crabtree's averaging 14.4 yds per reception, just like last year. Adarius Bowman averaged over 17 yds last year and Bryant is averaging over 20 yds, this year. The point being... if you throw the ball to a kid 150 times (and he averages 14.4 ypc) he'll likely have the numbers Crabtree put up, last year.

If Bryant stays on the current path of how many catches Crabtree (134) had, last year - given his 20.4 ypc/1 td in ever 5 receptions average -he'll end up with 2,734 yds and 27 tds. The only thing Bryant is missing is a system in which a QB will throw him the ball 140-150 times in a season!

if we project out, daniel Charbonet will have 6 blocked punts and 6 fumble recoveries.

DPOY?

I love how silly folks sound when they project out stats. Then when someone else has better stats, they change the direction of the conversation.

I'll take Crabtree over anyone else in the conference at WR and I will have the best WR in the league.

[yankee]

if we project out, daniel Charbonet will have 6 blocked punts and 6 fumble recoveries.

DPOY?

I love how silly folks sound when they project out stats. Then when someone else has better stats, they change the direction of the conversation.

I'll take Crabtree over anyone else in the conference at WR and I will have the best WR in the league.

absolutely. forget stats for just a minute...the guy is an absolute freak of a receiver. analysts were saying how we wouldn't see someone like calvin johnson for years down the road...i think mr. crabtree puts an end to that conversation.

[yankee]

So far, if I had to pick the Top 10 best WR's (for 2008) in the Big XII they'd be...

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite)
2. Brandon Banks (K-State)
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU)
4. Ryan Broyles (OU)
5. Nate Swift (Neb)
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State)
7. Michael Crabtree (TT)
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan)
9. Quan Cosby (Tex)
10. Detron Lewis (TT)

(Maclin would be in, but he is only averaging 8.5 yds per reception. Now, he has a rushing td and a KO return.... so he'd be an excellent if I were doing an All-Purpose list! He should be at the top of this list in no time!)

Like I said, earlier, this is based off of sweetcake schedules. It'd be interesting to see what this list looks like in about 6 weeks.

ryan broyles is good and had a helluva game yesterday...but i don't see how in the world you can put him ahead of guys like crabtree, maclin, and cosby based off of one game...i'm not saying this guy can't be a household name down the road but c'mon...one game?

[ThEgReAtOnE]

if we project out, daniel Charbonet will have 6 blocked punts and 6 fumble recoveries.

DPOY?

I love how silly folks sound when they project out stats. Then when someone else has better stats, they change the direction of the conversation.

I'll take Crabtree over anyone else in the conference at WR and I will have the best WR in the league.

slorch.. IT'S THE TRUTH! The kid is averaing 14.4 yds per reception... JUST LIKE LAST YEAR! Other WR's are averaging more... JUST LIKE LAST YEAR! Again, if your guy averages 14.4 ypc and my guy averages the same thing... yet your guy gets 140+ passes thrown at him, and my guy gets barely 60 passes thrown to him, don't tell me your guy is handsdown a better WR. Your guy got 80 more opportunities.. with the same average!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

ryan broyles is good and had a helluva game yesterday...but i don't see how in the world you can put him ahead of guys like crabtree, maclin, and cosby based off of one game...i'm not saying this guy can't be a household name down the road but c'mon...one game?

I'm going off of stats for the 2008 season. There's no trickery or primary subjective thinking. We'll see how this changes over the year.

[JMSFan]

ryan broyles is good and had a helluva game yesterday...but i don't see how in the world you can put him ahead of guys like crabtree, maclin, and cosby based off of one game...i'm not saying this guy can't be a household name down the road but c'mon...one game?


Exactly. I remember a few years ago when Reggie beat OU and all the hype that came from it.

[slorch]

slorch.. IT'S THE TRUTH! The kid is averaing 14.4 yds per reception... JUST LIKE LAST YEAR! Other WR's are averaging more... JUST LIKE LAST YEAR! Again, if your guy averages 14.4 ypc and my guy averages the same thing... yet your guy gets 140+ passes thrown at him, and my guy gets barely 60 passes thrown to him, don't tell me your guy is handsdown a better WR. Your guy got 80 more opportunities.. with the same average!

no goading me today bro. projecting out stats is for idiots. have at it.

Crabtree is best WR today, next month, and at the end of the year, he will still be the best WR in the Big XII, if not the country...again.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

ryan broyles is good and had a helluva game yesterday...but i don't see how in the world you can put him ahead of guys like crabtree, maclin, and cosby based off of one game...i'm not saying this guy can't be a household name down the road but c'mon...one game?


Exactly. I remember a few years ago when Reggie beat OU and all the hype that came from it.

If you're creating a list or ranking of what athletes accomplish - for a particular season - doesn't it make senses to use the stats from that season as criteria?? I'm only using what WR's have done, in 2008, to make a list. What is... IS! You can't lie on fact.

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite) -16 recps/326 yds/3 tds (20.4 ypc)
2. Brandon Banks (K-State) - 9 recps/183 yds/3 tds (20.3 ypc)
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU) - 7 recps/140 yds/1 td (20.0 ypc)
4. Ryan Broyles (OU) - 7 recps/141 yds/1 td (20.0 ypc)
5. Nate Swift (Neb) - 11 recps/191 yds/2 tds (17.4 ypc)
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State) - 8 recps/139 yds/2 tds (17.4 ypc)
7. Michael Crabtree (TT) - 16 recps/231 yds/2 tds (14.4 ypc)
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan) - 16 recps/201 yds/4 tds (12.9 ypc)
9. Quan Cosby (Tex) - 11 recps/188 yds/1 td (17.4 ypc)
10. Detron Lewis (TT) - 12 recps/201 yds/0 td (17.4 ypc)

Projecting yds/tds these players over the 134 passes Crabtree caught...

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite) - 2,734 yds/27 tds
2. Brandon Banks (K-State) - 2,720 yds/45 tds
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU) - 2,680 yds/19 tds
4. Ryan Broyles (OU) - 2,680 yds/19 tds
5. Nate Swift (Neb) - 2,331 yds/27 tds
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State) - 2,331 yds/34 tds
7. Michael Crabtree (TT) - 1,930 yds/17 tds
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan) - 1,729 yds/34 tds
9. Quan Cosby (Tex) - 2,331 yds/12 tds
10. Detron Lewis (TT) - 2,331 yds

Now, obviously we know these stats are going to completely change and probably no one will have over 2,000 yds receiving and no one will catch 34 tds. But, probably only Crabtree will receive over 100 passes - due to the offense he plays in. He hasn't shown that he can increase his ypc, yet. I want to see the stats for these receivers in about 4 weeks.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

no goading me today bro. projecting out stats is for idiots. have at it.

Crabtree is best WR today, next month, and at the end of the year, he will still be the best WR in the Big XII, if not the country...again.

One thing is for sure... he'll definitely get WAY more passes than any WR in the Nation... perhaps even 2 or 3 times more than 75% of all WR's. Benefit of the system!

[jtk1519]

Dan Buckner beyotches!!

[slorch]

One thing is for sure... he'll definitely get WAY more passes than any WR in the Nation... perhaps even 2 or 3 times more than 75% of all WR's. Benefit of the system!

he might get 1 or 2 passes, but he's pretty much kissed his QB days goodbye...

[SLC]

[QUOTE=JMSFan;870732]

If you're creating a list or ranking of what athletes accomplish - for a particular season - doesn't it make senses to use the stats from that season as criteria?? I'm only using what WR's have done, in 2008, to make a list. What is... IS! You can't lie on fact.

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite) -16 recps/326 yds/3 tds (20.4 ypc)
2. Brandon Banks (K-State) - 9 recps/183 yds/3 tds (20.3 ypc)
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU) - 7 recps/140 yds/1 td (20.0 ypc)
4. Ryan Broyles (OU) - 7 recps/141 yds/1 td (20.0 ypc)
5. Nate Swift (Neb) - 11 recps/191 yds/2 tds (17.4 ypc)
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State) - 8 recps/139 yds/2 tds (17.4 ypc)
7. Michael Crabtree (TT) - 16 recps/231 yds/2 tds (14.4 ypc)
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan) - 16 recps/201 yds/4 tds (12.9 ypc)
9. Quan Cosby (Tex) - 11 recps/188 yds/1 td (17.4 ypc)
10. Detron Lewis (TT) - 12 recps/201 yds/0 td (17.4 ypc)

Projecting yds/tds these players over the 134 passes Crabtree caught...

1. Dez Bryant (Okie Lite) - 2,734 yds/27 tds
2. Brandon Banks (K-State) - 2,720 yds/45 tds
3. Jiggy Iglesias (OU) - 2,680 yds/19 tds
4. Ryan Broyles (OU) - 2,680 yds/19 tds
5. Nate Swift (Neb) - 2,331 yds/27 tds
6. RJ Sumrall (Iowa State) - 2,331 yds/34 tds
7. Michael Crabtree (TT) - 1,930 yds/17 tds
8. Dezmon Briscoe (Kan) - 1,729 yds/34 tds
9. Quan Cosby (Tex) - 2,331 yds/12 tds
10. Detron Lewis (TT) - 2,331 yds

Now, obviously we know these stats are going to completely change and probably no one will have over 2,000 yds receiving and no one will catch 34 tds. But, probably only Crabtree will receive over 100 passes - due to the offense he plays in. He hasn't shown that he can increase his ypc, yet. I want to see the stats for these receivers in about 4 weeks. [/SIZE][/FONT]


All I know is this, If your great like Crabtree then regardless of system your going to get the ball thrown your way. He is not the best because he will have more catches. He will have more catches because he is the best. By that I mean his team, coaches have such great confidence that he will make the catch, that they throw it to him a higher percentage of the time. TT does throw it more than most but that doesnt mean he would the higher percentage of the passes. He gets the higher percentage of passes because he is so good. And since when did the YPC become the criteria for the greatness of recievers. I believe you HAVE to look at the total package, not one area. You might have a player that gets 25 yards per catch at 4 catches per game and that doesnt mean he's better than another guy that gets 10 yards per catch at 9 catches per game. When did the catches come... 1st or 3rd down? How was the catch made... wide open or under duress? Was the yardage a result after contact? Was he standing there or diving for it? The skills of the players are far more important than 1 stat over another.

I believe Michael Crabtree demonstrates ALL these abilities regardless of how many times he is thrown to. That is why I believe he is the best.;)

[JMSFan]

[QUOTE=ThEgReAtOnE;870754]


All I know is this, If your great like Crabtree then regardless of system your going to get the ball thrown your way. He is not the best because he will have more catches. He will have more catches because he is the best. By that I mean his team, coaches have such great confidence that he will make the catch, that they throw it to him a higher percentage of the time. TT does throw it more than most but that doesnt mean he would the higher percentage of the passes. He gets the higher percentage of passes because he is so good. And since when did the YPC become the criteria for the greatness of recievers. I believe you HAVE to look at the total package, not one area. You might have a player that gets 25 yards per catch at 4 catches per game and that doesnt mean he's better than another guy that gets 10 yards per catch at 9 catches per game. When did the catches come, 1st or 3rd down, how was the catch made, wide open or under duress. Was the yardage a result after contact. Was it standing there or diving for it. The skills of the players are far more important than 1 stat over another.

I believe Michael Crabtree demonstrates ALL these abilities regardless of how many times he is thrown to. That is why I believe he is the best.;)

Great points, but you need to concentrate on puncuation.
You ever seen one of these--> ? .

[SLC]

[QUOTE=SLCisbetterthanyou;870880]

Great points, but you need to concentrate on puncuation.
You ever seen one of these--> ? .


Sorry, was trying to eat while typing... I edited it in honor of you:D

[TTURedRaider]

Well, Crabtree's averaging 14.4 yds per reception, just like last year. Adarius Bowman averaged over 17 yds last year and Bryant is averaging over 20 yds, this year. The point being... if you throw the ball to a kid 150 times (and he averages 14.4 ypc) he'll likely have the numbers Crabtree put up, last year.

If Bryant stays on the current path of how many catches Crabtree (134) had, last year - given his 20.4 ypc/1 td in ever 5 receptions average -he'll end up with 2,734 yds and 27 tds. The only thing Bryant is missing is a system in which a QB will throw him the ball 140-150 times in a season!

I like how you put down Crabtree for the offense he's playing in but don't mention that Dez Bryant actually is playing in an offensive system as well.

Now I'm just guessing that with OSU Bryant runs deeper routes than Crabtree does on avg with TTU. I mean OSU has a running game with Hunter to go along with the passing. TTU's running game is 10+ carries a game and WR screens on or behind the line of scrimmage. Crabtree might get more passes even though they are even now. But the routes aren't as long as in other offenses.

[TulsaHale74]

Great points, but you need to concentrate on puncuation.
You ever seen one of these--> ? .
Is spelling as important as punctuation?:)

[ThEgReAtOnE]

[QUOTE=ThEgReAtOnE;870754]


All I know is this, If your great like Crabtree then regardless of system your going to get the ball thrown your way. He is not the best because he will have more catches. He will have more catches because he is the best. By that I mean his team, coaches have such great confidence that he will make the catch, that they throw it to him a higher percentage of the time. TT does throw it more than most but that doesnt mean he would the higher percentage of the passes. He gets the higher percentage of passes because he is so good. And since when did the YPC become the criteria for the greatness of recievers. I believe you HAVE to look at the total package, not one area. You might have a player that gets 25 yards per catch at 4 catches per game and that doesnt mean he's better than another guy that gets 10 yards per catch at 9 catches per game. When did the catches come... 1st or 3rd down? How was the catch made... wide open or under duress? Was the yardage a result after contact? Was he standing there or diving for it? The skills of the players are far more important than 1 stat over another.

I believe Michael Crabtree demonstrates ALL these abilities regardless of how many times he is thrown to. That is why I believe he is the best.;)

Umm... I never said Crabtree wasnt as good as advertised. My only argument is that I don't believe you can look at his total yds and tds, last year, and say he's automatically the best WR in Nation - then and now. For example...

Brennan Marion (Tulsa) - 39 receptions/1244 yds/11 tds (31.9 ypc)

... could you imagine what this guy could've done if he had seen 95 more passes thrown his way?? How about these guys...

Mario Manningham (Michigan) - 72 receptions/1124 yds/12 tds (16.3 ypc)
Marko Mitchell (Nevada) - 53 receptions/1129 yds/8 tds (21.3 ypc)
Steve Johnson (Kentucky) - 61 receptions/1052 yds/13 tds (17.2 ypc)
James Hardy (Indiana) - 79 receptions/1125 yds/16 tds (14.2 ypc)
Cortez Gent (FAU) - 64 receptions/1082 yds/9 tds (16.9 ypc)

Look at the number of receptions for these guys and the number of receptions for Crabtree! You say it's because he's that much better.... I say he (Crabtree) has an equal or lower ypc average than these guys! There is room to suspect or doubt, given that of the guys I've listed, only Hardy is the closest to Crabtree in receptions (79). Ummm... that's 55 less receptions than Crabtree! In 2006, Jarrett Dillard caught 21 tds in 91 receptions. Did he win the WROTY Award? Nope! In 2005, Jeff Samardzija averaged 16.3 ypc with 16 tds and 71 receptions. Did he get the Freddy Hands Award? Nada! How about Roddy White, in 2004, with a 20.5 ypc average and 14 tds with just 71 receptions. Where was his accolade as the greatest WR in college? All of these cats had equal or better stats than Crabtree.... they just didn't see 134 passes thrown their way.

[JMSFan]

[QUOTE=JMSFan;870890]


Sorry, was trying to eat while typing... I edited it in honor of you:D


:D

[slorch]

I have said repeatedly that Crabtree is the best WR I have seen in space in the last few years in college football.

By asking for "your guys" to get as many receptions as Crabtree has, it is certainly quite an assumption that they possess the durability required to have that many touches and the route running ability to simply get open that much.

Stats are stats and they make liars and fools out of lots of people.

Like I've said since about October of last year, I'll take my chances with Crabtree.

[SLC]

[QUOTE=SLCisbetterthanyou;870880]

Umm... I never said Crabtree wasnt as good as advertised. My only argument is that I don't believe you can look at his total yds and tds, last year, and say he's automatically the best WR in Nation - then and now. For example...

Brennan Marion (Tulsa) - 39 receptions/1244 yds/11 tds (31.9 ypc)

... could you imagine what this guy could've done if he had seen 95 more passes thrown his way?? How about these guys...

Mario Manningham (Michigan) - 72 receptions/1124 yds/12 tds (16.3 ypc)
Marko Mitchell (Nevada) - 53 receptions/1129 yds/8 tds (21.3 ypc)
Steve Johnson (Kentucky) - 61 receptions/1052 yds/13 tds (17.2 ypc)
James Hardy (Indiana) - 79 receptions/1125 yds/16 tds (14.2 ypc)
Cortez Gent (FAU) - 64 receptions/1082 yds/9 tds (16.9 ypc)

Look at the number of receptions for these guys and the number of receptions for Crabtree! You say it's because he's that much better.... I say he (Crabtree) has an equal or lower ypc average than these guys! There is room to suspect or doubt, given that of the guys I've listed, only Hardy is the closest to Crabtree in receptions (79). Ummm... that's 55 less receptions than Crabtree! In 2006, Jarrett Dillard caught 21 tds in 91 receptions. Did he win the WROTY Award? Nope! In 2005, Jeff Samardzija averaged 16.3 ypc with 16 tds and 71 receptions. Did he get the Freddy Hands Award? Nada! How about Roddy White, in 2004, with a 20.5 ypc average and 14 tds with just 71 receptions. Where was his accolade as the greatest WR in college? All of these cats had equal or better stats than Crabtree.... they just didn't see 134 passes thrown their way.



Again... I guess your qualification.... This year or past .....is YPC. Forget if that catch was important to the outcome of the game.... Just player X, Y, or Z had the most freakin YPC's therefore he is the best dang wideout in college ball baby!!

I said it before and I will say it again... HE GETS ALL THOSE FREAKIN CATCHES BECAUSE HE IS GOOD, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THEY COULD THROW THE BALL TO THE DANG EQUIPMENT MANAGER AND HE MIGHT AVERAGE 15 YPC. MICHAEL FREAKIN CRABTREE WILL DO THAT WHILE MAKING THE BIG CATCHES.... OVER THE MIDDLE.. DOUBLE COVERED.. FOR AN IMPORTANT FIRST DOWN... FOR A TOUCH DOWN... UNDER DURESS... OR BLOWING FREAKIN BY YOU. POINT IS ....HE IS COMPLETE, AS COMPLETE AS A RECIEVER CAN BE... ATHLETIC, AS ATHLETIC AS A RECIEVER CAN BE. HE IS THE BEST RECIEVER OUT THERE...BAR NONE.:cool:

[yankee]

so you're basically basing your rankings of best receivers soley on yards per catch? ROFL!

[BoomerSooner]

[QUOTE=ThEgReAtOnE;870973]



Again... I guess your qualification.... This year or past .....is YPC. Forget if that catch was important to the outcome of the game.... Just player X, Y, or Z had the most freakin YPC's therefore he is the best dang wideout in college ball baby!!

I said it before and I will say it again... HE GETS ALL THOSE FREAKIN CATCHES BECAUSE HE IS GOOD, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THEY COULD THROW THE BALL TO THE DANG EQUIPMENT MANAGER AND HE MIGHT AVERAGE 15 YPC. MICHAEL FREAKIN CRABTREE WILL DO THAT WHILE MAKING THE BIG CATCHES.... OVER THE MIDDLE.. DOUBLE COVERED.. FOR AN IMPORTANT FIRST DOWN... FOR A TOUCH DOWN... UNDER DURESS... OR BLOWING FREAKIN BY YOU. POINT IS ....HE IS COMPLETE, AS COMPLETE AS A RECIEVER CAN BE... ATHLETIC, AS ATHLETIC AS A RECIEVER CAN BE. HE IS THE BEST RECIEVER OUT THERE...BAR NONE.:cool:

You're missing the point he is trying to make, and that is that quantity of numbers isn't as important as quality. Look at quarterbacks last year for example:

Would you rather have
A) 5065 yards passing, 47 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions
or
B) 3286 yards passing, 32 touchdowns, and 6 interceptions

How about
C) 5705 yards passing, 48 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions
or
D) 4306 yards passing, 33 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions

Finally
E) 3042 yards pasing, 28 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions
or
F) 1724 yards passing, 14 touchdowns, and 4 interceptions

If you go by your theory then A, C, and E all had better numbers. The problem is B is Tim Tebow, the Heisman winner, D is Chase Daniel, a Heisman finalist, and F is Pat White who led WVU to the Fiesta Bowl and won it. A is Paul Smith of Tulsa, C is Graham Harrell, and E is Kellen Lewis of Indiana.

There are much better ways to measure talent than by pure numbers. The system that person plays in has just as much to do with their numbers as their talent.

[BoomerSooner]

so you're basically basing your rankings of best receivers soley on yards per catch? ROFL!

Better than based on total yards or touchdowns.

[yankee]

Better than based on total yards or touchdowns.

ok, so slot receivers are :Censor:ed then...:rolleyes:

[JMSFan]

[QUOTE=SLCisbetterthanyou;871010]

You're missing the point he is trying to make, and that is that quantity of numbers isn't as important as quality. Look at quarterbacks last year for example:

Would you rather have
A) 5065 yards passing, 47 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions
or
B) 3286 yards passing, 32 touchdowns, and 6 interceptions

How about
C) 5705 yards passing, 48 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions
or
D) 4306 yards passing, 33 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions

Finally
E) 3042 yards pasing, 28 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions
or
F) 1724 yards passing, 14 touchdowns, and 4 interceptions

If you go by your theory then A, C, and E all had better numbers. The problem is B is Tim Tebow, the Heisman winner, D is Chase Daniel, a Heisman finalist, and F is Pat White who led WVU to the Fiesta Bowl and won it. A is Paul Smith of Tulsa, C is Graham Harrell, and E is Kellen Lewis of Indiana.

There are much better ways to measure talent than by pure numbers. The system that person plays in has just as much to do with their numbers as their talent.

So then we cant say that Bryant is the best receiver based solely on a one game performance?

[BoomerSooner]

ok, so slot receivers are :Censor:ed then...:rolleyes:

I never said ypc was good, just that total yards or touchdowns ignore the different types of systems. A guy like Crabtree, while obviously talented, is going to put up MUCH better numbers than a guy with comparable talent who plays in a run first system. Are you going to tell me Michael Crabtree is phenomenally better than a guy like Malcolm Kelly? I would say that talent wise they are similar. although I would give the edge to Crabtree. If Malcolm Kelly played in a spread, he would get more than 49 catches, like he did with Oklahoma last year. If you're seriously going to tell me Crabtree is 1100 yards and 13 touchdowns better than Kelly then I'll just stop this argument now because you're ********. You have to take into account the amount of times that receiver gets targeted.

[BoomerSooner]

[QUOTE=BoomerSooner;871051]

So then we cant say that Bryant is the best receiver based solely on a one game performance?

No, it would be dumb to do that. It would be worthwhile to look at the number of times that receiver catches the ball compared to the number of times he's targeted. Some other useful stats might be yards after catch or percentage of teams total passing yards.

[Shokkin da wrld]

nate swift! nebraska...

[SLC]

[QUOTE=SLCisbetterthanyou;871010]

You're missing the point he is trying to make, and that is that quantity of numbers isn't as important as quality. Look at quarterbacks last year for example:

Would you rather have
A) 5065 yards passing, 47 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions
or
B) 3286 yards passing, 32 touchdowns, and 6 interceptions

How about
C) 5705 yards passing, 48 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions
or
D) 4306 yards passing, 33 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions

Finally
E) 3042 yards pasing, 28 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions
or
F) 1724 yards passing, 14 touchdowns, and 4 interceptions

If you go by your theory then A, C, and E all had better numbers. The problem is B is Tim Tebow, the Heisman winner, D is Chase Daniel, a Heisman finalist, and F is Pat White who led WVU to the Fiesta Bowl and won it. A is Paul Smith of Tulsa, C is Graham Harrell, and E is Kellen Lewis of Indiana.

There are much better ways to measure talent than by pure numbers. The system that person plays in has just as much to do with their numbers as their talent.


If MC played for Nebraska he would have the most catches on the team. If he played for Air force he would have the most catches... or Texas or OU. I dont care if he played for the local boys club, he would have the most catches... and for one reason. HE IS GOOD. Forget system... HE IS GOOD.

Will the SYSTEM give him more opportunites to catch the freakin ball................. WELL DUH!!! I would think so. But the reason they throw that much to him is because he catches it. Mike freakin Leech wouldn't throw him the ball if he couldn't catch it more times than not.

I am a big Longhorn fan and just as big of a TT hater, so I would look for any reason to pick a player from my own team or even the RE-FREAKIN-DICULOUS(undeserveable of their Big 12 status) Baylor Bears. But I will say it all day long that the best reciever in the Big 12 and probably the nation resides in Red Raider Country. I just havent seen a player from any other Big 12 team who makes me think otherwise.

[GameTyme]

Call me what you want a homer a Bryant lover. By the end of the season he will be 1st team All-American.

First off let me got on Jeremy Maclin no doubt the guy gots talent but a better return specialist then a WR. Expect after Daniels graduation his numbers will drop.

Crabtree ok great WR can make the argument he is the best WR in the country. Although some hate to admit it and it's not rockett science but yes his #'s are system inflated not saying he not good, but if Dez Bryant gets 153 receptions expect every WR NCAA record to fall.

Truth is Macklin and Crabtree both have the better QB's both Heisman candidates both even play in a system not so much as Mizzou although they tend to air it out quite a bit and not to mention better players surrending them right ? I believe Coach Gundy who by the way is 41 plans on to feed Dez the ball they have the running game with Hunter to do so. You start to double Bryant all of a sudden here comes Kendall Hunter the other East Texas product busting things up.

There is not a DB I have seen in the Big 12 that has the physical tools to stop Bryant maybe Harris from OU but even then Bryant still wins.

Also wasnt it Bryant scoring the game winning TD against Tech on a screen pass he took to the house last season. OSU with their 1-2 punch just might have something to say about the Big 12 South. I personally believe Texas is going to win it.

Put it like this Dez Bryant is the best Pro prospect at WR the Big 12 has. Didnt Malcom Kelley go first last season out of Big 12 WR's. I got love for my longview brother, but Ive seen Malcom since the 9th grade he aint no Dez Bryant.

I know im a Homer.

[GameTyme]

Also for sombody that something about Cougar High.

Houston is better then anyone Tech or Texas has faced this season.

[slorch]

Also for sombody that something about Cougar High.

Houston is better then anyone Tech or Texas has faced this season.

prove it.

not better than Nevada. maybe not better than E. Washington...:rolleyes:

I'm the last guy to defend Tech's schedule, but Cougar High ain't all that., either.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Deciding who's the best player, at the WR position, requires a ton of criteria. It needs to be equally subjective and objective. I see the level of competition, offensive system, ypc-td per rec ratio, big play ability and then I just look at the physical intangibles. No one saw Crabtree, Maclin or Bryant coming last season.. which could be part of why they had very good seasons. No one sees Broyles and Banks coming, this year, either! My point is this... if you take away the 134 receptions (total yds/total tds)... what do you have left? Yds per catch and a tds per reception-ratio!

Many of you say Crabtree is hands down the best WR in the Conference/Nation. I ask how can you 100% prove that??? Of WR's who caught 40+ receptions he didn't even have the best ypc/tds-recp ratio! So how is he clearly the best WR?? No one saw him coming, last year, but they will key him this year. I don't expect him to have anywhere near the same stats. Then again, no one sees Broyles coming... if he puts up huge Crabtree-like numbers will he all of the sudden be the best WR in the Big XII/Nation?? (Lets be honest... Broyles likely wont even see 40 passes his way, let alone 140 passes!) ;)

[yankee]

I never said ypc was good, just that total yards or touchdowns ignore the different types of systems. A guy like Crabtree, while obviously talented, is going to put up MUCH better numbers than a guy with comparable talent who plays in a run first system. Are you going to tell me Michael Crabtree is phenomenally better than a guy like Malcolm Kelly? I would say that talent wise they are similar. although I would give the edge to Crabtree. If Malcolm Kelly played in a spread, he would get more than 49 catches, like he did with Oklahoma last year. If you're seriously going to tell me Crabtree is 1100 yards and 13 touchdowns better than Kelly then I'll just stop this argument now because you're ********. You have to take into account the amount of times that receiver gets targeted.

yeah i know that stuff you said and i understand crabtree is at the benefit of a system that will throw the ball to him a gazillion times. my problem lied in the fact that best wr was based soley (apparently) off of ypc...as in guys like ryan broyles and brandon banks, guys who didn't have one catch last year and now are all of a sudden better than guys like crabtree and maclin....

[KLH75287]

The guy that makes the big catches at critical times during the game on a consistent basis is "the best".

It is next to impossible and certainly improbable that this title can be determined without a lot of history and intense research in to it. There are way too many intangibles.

I think MC and Dez could both end up in Canton in about 2028. I know I enjoy watching both of them play, and look forward to seeing them on Sundays providing they go to a team I like:D

[Mhs06]

I know this is a little off topic, but everyone should look out for Detron Lewis. He is an absolute beast. Tech's next big WR in my opinion.

[BoomerSooner]

[QUOTE=BoomerSooner;871051]


If MC played for Nebraska he would have the most catches on the team. If he played for Air force he would have the most catches... or Texas or OU. I dont care if he played for the local boys club, he would have the most catches... and for one reason. HE IS GOOD. Forget system... HE IS GOOD.

Will the SYSTEM give him more opportunites to catch the freakin ball................. WELL DUH!!! I would think so. But the reason they throw that much to him is because he catches it. Mike freakin Leech wouldn't throw him the ball if he couldn't catch it more times than not.

I am a big Longhorn fan and just as big of a TT hater, so I would look for any reason to pick a player from my own team or even the RE-FREAKIN-DICULOUS(undeserveable of their Big 12 status) Baylor Bears. But I will say it all day long that the best reciever in the Big 12 and probably the nation resides in Red Raider Country. I just havent seen a player from any other Big 12 team who makes me think otherwise.

You don't make any point at all with this argument. I realize he is good, and I realize why he is starting and getting all the catches. But to make an objective analysis, you can't say he is better because he has more yards and touchdowns than anyone else. The point I'm trying to make is that there are MUCH better ways to judge receivers.

[BoomerSooner]

yeah i know that stuff you said and i understand crabtree is at the benefit of a system that will throw the ball to him a gazillion times. my problem lied in the fact that best wr was based soley (apparently) off of ypc...as in guys like ryan broyles and brandon banks, guys who didn't have one catch last year and now are all of a sudden better than guys like crabtree and maclin....

Fair enough. We're in agreement on that point. I think basing it off of numbers is more inaccurate than just watching the players, because there's no very accurate way of compensating for the different offenses the teams run.

[SLC]

[QUOTE=SLCisbetterthanyou;871108]

You don't make any point at all with this argument. I realize he is good, and I realize why he is starting and getting all the catches. But to make an objective analysis, you can't say he is better because he has more yards and touchdowns than anyone else. The point I'm trying to make is that there are MUCH better ways to judge receivers.


True enough... By watching the damn game!!! Forget the stats... Watch the damn game... Forget the YPCEEZ.... or the YPGEEZ... or whatever else. My arguement was never that because he had this or that, he was the best in the Big 12... It was the other way around... I watch all the teams in the Big 12 and I think he is the best based on what I see him do.... Not what his YPCEEZ are, like some people.;)

[HUM398]

Also for sombody that something about Cougar High.

Houston is better then anyone Tech or Texas has faced this season.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

At this point, Houston may not be the 4th best team in CUSA.

ECU is certainly better then Cougar High

Tusla is certainly better then Cougar High

UCF is certtainly better then cougar high...


Hell Rice may end up being better then cougar high.

I think that Florida Atlantic is probably better then Cougar high as well..and they play in the freaking sunbelt.

[Firebird]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

At this point, Houston may not be the 4th best team in CUSA.

ECU is certainly better then Cougar High

Tusla is certainly better then Cougar High

UCF is certtainly better then cougar high...


Hell Rice may end up being better then cougar high.

I think that Florida Atlantic is probably better then Cougar high as well..and they play in the freaking sunbelt.


I'm not sure why you are mentioning ECU, Tulsa, UCF, or Rice. Neither Tech or Texas has played those teams and thus they are entirely irrelevant to the OP's point, which was that UH is better than any team Tech or UT has faced. They are certainly better than Eastern Washington. FAU....C'mon, you know better than that. UH is better than FAU. You could make an argument about UTEP or Nevada, although based on UTEP's egg against Buffalo, I would wager that UH manhandles UTEP. The UH offense doesn't show any signs of stalling.

[HUM398]

I'm not sure why you are mentioning ECU, Tulsa, UCF, or Rice. Neither Tech or Texas has played those teams and thus they are entirely irrelevant to the OP's point, which was that UH is better than any team Tech or UT has faced. They are certainly better than Eastern Washington. FAU....C'mon, you know better than that. UH is better than FAU. You could make an argument about UTEP or Nevada, although based on UTEP's egg against Buffalo, I would wager that UH manhandles UTEP. The UH offense doesn't show any signs of stalling.

Im sorry Comrade, but i seriously think that FAU would give UH a legit challenge. I don't know if they'd win... And im not impressed with UH at all this year...so they put up 55 points on TSU...congrats...you put 37 points up on OSU....again, im pretty sure FAU could do the same against the defense that OSU plays....i

UH beat down a really bad TSU team...and lost to a bottom feeder Big 12 team. y unimpressed with UH, and i have seen them once this year. I was right about them last year, and i am pretty certain that 4 other teams in the West are as good if not better then UH...which isn't saying much considering it is freaking CUSA.

Its relevant because CUSA may be the one thing that sucks more then ou....

[BAMF cowboy]

Actually FAU played OSU the previous 3 seasons, and the most points they managed to put up was 8.

[HUM398]

Actually FAU played OSU the previous 3 seasons, and the most points they managed to put up was 8.

Actually, i am talking about this year.

The longer Gundy is at OSU, the more you can expect your defense to decline.

[Firebird]

Im sorry Comrade, but i seriously think that FAU would give UH a legit challenge. I don't know if they'd win... And im not impressed with UH at all this year...so they put up 55 points on TSU...congrats...you put 37 points up on OSU....again, im pretty sure FAU could do the same against the defense that OSU plays....i

UH beat down a really bad TSU team...and lost to a bottom feeder Big 12 team. y unimpressed with UH, and i have seen them once this year. I was right about them last year, and i am pretty certain that 4 other teams in the West are as good if not better then UH...which isn't saying much considering it is freaking CUSA.

Its relevant because CUSA may be the one thing that sucks more then ou....


A bit early to proclaim Okie Lite a bottom feeder, no? I'm more impressed with them than I am with either Baylor, A&M, or Tech at this point in the season. I don't think that 3rd in the south is out of reach at all for Okie Lite at this point in the season. They've looked better than everyone save UT and OU. Unless Harrell finds his accuracy, I would pick OSU in that game.

UH would stomp FAU. Your comments about the other C-USA teams remain completely irrelevant to the discussion, unless they are doppelgangers for FAU, UTEP, Eastern Washington, or Nevada. We are discussing the teams that Tech and UT have actually played.

Which four teams in the west are better than UH?

[pack4life]

Dez put on a hell of a show this weekend, regardless of the opponent.

But I do think this question should be reserved until the middle of the season, once the Big 12 is in mid swing.

[HUM398]

A bit early to proclaim Okie Lite a bottom feeder, no? I'm more impressed with them than I am with either Baylor, A&M, or Tech at this point in the season. I don't think that 3rd in the south is out of reach at all for Okie Lite at this point in the season. They've looked better than everyone save UT and OU. Unless Harrell finds his accuracy, I would pick OSU in that game.

UH would stomp FAU. Your comments about the other C-USA teams remain completely irrelevant to the discussion, unless they are doppelgangers for FAU, UTEP, Eastern Washington, or Nevada. We are discussing the teams that Tech and UT have actually played.

Which four teams in the west are better than UH?

Ok... Well two teams.

Tulsa and Rice.... Maybe Tulane and UTEP but it would be stretching it.

[HUM398]

A bit early to proclaim Okie Lite a bottom feeder, no? I'm more impressed with them than I am with either Baylor, A&M, or Tech at this point in the season. I don't think that 3rd in the south is out of reach at all for Okie Lite at this point in the season. They've looked better than everyone save UT and OU. Unless Harrell finds his accuracy, I would pick OSU in that game.

UH would stomp FAU. Your comments about the other C-USA teams remain completely irrelevant to the discussion, unless they are doppelgangers for FAU, UTEP, Eastern Washington, or Nevada. We are discussing the teams that Tech and UT have actually played.

Which four teams in the west are better than UH?

We will see....Its early, and you are right...its too early to call OSU a bottom feeder...i just expect it.

[SLC]

A bit early to proclaim Okie Lite a bottom feeder, no? I'm more impressed with them than I am with either Baylor, A&M, or Tech at this point in the season. I don't think that 3rd in the south is out of reach at all for Okie Lite at this point in the season. They've looked better than everyone save UT and OU. Unless Harrell finds his accuracy, I would pick OSU in that game.

UH would stomp FAU. Your comments about the other C-USA teams remain completely irrelevant to the discussion, unless they are doppelgangers for FAU, UTEP, Eastern Washington, or Nevada. We are discussing the teams that Tech and UT have actually played.

Which four teams in the west are better than UH?


There's your freakin bottom feeder right there. Leeches feeding off the money that UT and OU bring to the conference.:mad:


What do we need to get them out and TCU in?

[ThEgReAtOnE]

There's your freakin bottom feeder right there. Leeches feeding off the money that UT and OU bring to the conference.:mad:


What do we need to get them out and TCU in?

Baylor has the potential to become a great program... if they had an alum/school that cared about winning football games! FSU pretty much sucked when Bowden got ahold of the reigns in 1976, having gone 4-29 in the 3 previous seasons. He goes 5-6 in the first season... and 10-2 in his second year... he hasn't looked back, since.

I believe this freshman QB (Griffin) has the potential to do big things at the helm.. and Briles will iron out other kinks. I'm willing to give Baylor a look-see!

[SLC]

Baylor has the potential to become a great program... if they had an alum/school that cared about winning football games! FSU pretty much sucked when Bowden got ahold of the reigns in 1976, having gone 4-29 in the 3 previous seasons. He goes 5-6 in the first season... and 10-2 in his second year... he hasn't looked back, since.

I believe this freshman QB (Griffin) has the potential to do big things at the helm.. and Briles will iron out other kinks. I'm willing to give Baylor a look-see!


Never that... There into healing bones.... not breakin um.:D