Sarah Palin's Speech

[Firebird]

Mr Chairman, delegates, and fellow citizens: I am honoured to be considered for the nomination for Vice President of the United States...



I accept the call to help our nominee for president to serve and defend America.

I accept the challenge of a tough fight in this election... against confident opponents... at a crucial hour for our country.

Standard intro. Well phrased.

And I accept the privilege of serving with a man who has come through much harder missions... and met far graver challenges... and knows how tough fights are won - the next president of the United States, John S McCain.


It was just a year ago when all the experts in Washington counted out our nominee because he refused to hedge his commitment to the security of the country he loves.

With their usual certitude, they told us that all was lost - there was no hope for this candidate who said that he would rather lose an election than see his country lose a war.

But the pollsters and pundits overlooked just one thing when they wrote him off.

They overlooked the calibre of the man himself - the determination, resolve, and sheer guts of Senator John McCain. The voters knew better.

And maybe that's because they realise there is a time for politics and a time for leadership... a time to campaign and a time to put our country first.

Our nominee for president is a true profile in courage, and people like that are hard to come by.

He's a man who wore the uniform of this country for 22 years, and refused to break faith with those troops in Iraq who have now brought victory within sight.

And as the mother of one of those troops, that is exactly the kind of man I want as commander in chief. I'm just one of many moms who'll say an extra prayer each night for our sons and daughters going into harm's way.

Some nice words for your running mate. I would expect no less. No one doubts that he has good character. I know lots of men with good character. Some of them war vets and even, possibly heros. They are not running for POTUS. What uniquely qualifies McCain?



Our son Track is 19.

And one week from tomorrow - 11 September - he'll deploy to Iraq with the army infantry in the service of his country.

My nephew Kasey also enlisted, and serves on a carrier in the Persian Gulf.

To the families of special-needs children all across this country... I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House


My family is proud of both of them and of all the fine men and women serving the country in uniform.

Track is the eldest of our five children. In our family, it's two boys and three girls in between - my strong and kind-hearted daughters Bristol, Willow, and Piper.

And in April, my husband Todd and I welcomed our littlest one into the world, a perfectly beautiful baby boy named Trig. From the inside, no family ever seems typical.

That's how it is with us.

Our family has the same ups and downs as any other... the same challenges and the same joys.

Sometimes even the greatest joys bring challenge.

And children with special needs inspire a special love.

To the families of special needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters.

I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House.

I appreciate that, and I am sure that all people with special needs kids will be glad to here that someone who understands their struggles will be so close to power. Here is a good opportunity to talk about some of the things you might do as an advocate for them.

Todd is a story all by himself.

He's a lifelong commercial fisherman... a production operator in the oil fields of Alaska's North Slope... a proud member of the United Steel Workers' Union... and world champion snow machine racer.

Throw in his Yup'ik Eskimo ancestry, and it all makes for quite a package. We met in high school, and two decades and five children later he's still my guy.

My mom and dad both worked at the elementary school in our small town. And among the many things I owe them is one simple lesson: that this is America, and every woman can walk through every door of opportunity.

My parents are here tonight, and I am so proud to be the daughter of Chuck and Sally Heath.

It's good that Sarah appreciates mom and dad and is proud of her husband. I would have liked to hear more about what she thinks an advocate for special needs kids should do, though.



Long ago, a young farmer and haberdasher from Missouri followed an unlikely path to the vice-presidency.

A writer observed: "We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty, sincerity, and dignity." I know just the kind of people that writer had in mind when he praised Harry Truman.

I grew up with those people.

They are the ones who do some of the hardest work in America ... who grow our food, run our factories, and fight our wars.

They love their country, in good times and bad, and they're always proud of America.

Here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinion - I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country.


I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids' public education better.

When I ran for city council, I didn't need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too.

Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown.

And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves.

Good! I do want to know a bit more about your experience. So far it sounds like you and your family are perfectly nice people. A lot like the people at my church and my friend's parents. How does that translate into successful leadership at the federal level?

I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organiser", except that you have actual responsibilities. I might add that in small towns, we don't quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren't listening.

We tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco.


OK, you had "responsibilities." It would have been good to know what they were and how they relate to the job of VP and possibly POTUS. I did get that you are different from Obama, though.

As for my running mate, you can be certain that wherever he goes, and whoever is listening, John McCain is the same man.


I'm not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I've learned quickly, these past few days, that if you're not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.

But here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinion - I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country. Americans expect us to go to Washington for the right reasons, and not just to mingle with the right people.

Politics isn't just a game of clashing parties and competing interests.

The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.

No one expects us to agree on everything.

But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and... a servant's heart.

OK, you are a maverick, you will govern with integrity, you will seek the people's best interest, and you and your running mate want to leave the nation better than you found it. How will you do that?

I pledge to all Americans that I will carry myself in this spirit as vice president of the United States. This was the spirit that brought me to the governor's office, when I took on the old politics as usual in Juneau... when I stood up to the special interests, the lobbyists, big oil companies, and the good-ol' boys network.

Sudden and relentless reform never sits well with entrenched interests and power brokers. That's why true reform is so hard to achieve.

But with the support of the citizens of Alaska, we shook things up.

And in short order we put the government of our state back on the side of the people.

I came to office promising major ethics reform, to end the culture of self-dealing. And today, that ethics reform is the law.

While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for.

That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay. I also drive myself to work. And I thought we could muddle through without the governor's personal chef - although I've got to admit that sometimes my kids sure miss her.

I came to office promising to control spending - by request if possible and by veto if necessary.

Senator McCain also promises to use the power of veto in defence of the public interest - and as a chief executive, I can assure you it works.

Our state budget is under control. We have a surplus.

And I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending: nearly half a billion dollars in vetoes.

I suspended the state fuel tax, and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress.

We need American energy resources, brought to you by American ingenuity, and produced by American workers


I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere.

If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves. When oil and gas prices went up dramatically, and filled up the state treasury, I sent a large share of that revenue back where it belonged - directly to the people of Alaska.

And despite fierce opposition from oil company lobbyists, who kind of liked things the way they were, we broke their monopoly on power and resources.

As governor, I insisted on competition and basic fairness to end their control of our state and return it to the people.

I fought to bring about the largest private-sector infrastructure project in North American history.

And when that deal was struck, we began a nearly $40bn natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence.

That pipeline, when the last section is laid and its valves are opened, will lead America one step farther away from dependence on dangerous foreign powers that do not have our interests at heart.

The stakes for our nation could not be higher.

This is better. You took on big interests and won, you helped get an oil pipeline built, and you reduced some extravagent spending. I really do like all of these things, and I like that you were able to tell me what it is you did, exactly.

When a hurricane strikes in the Gulf of Mexico, this country should not be so dependent on imported oil that we are forced to draw from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

And families cannot throw away more and more of their pay checks on gas and heating oil.

With Russia wanting to control a vital pipeline in the Caucasus, and to divide and intimidate our European allies by using energy as a weapon, we cannot leave ourselves at the mercy of foreign suppliers.

To confront the threat that Iran might seek to cut off nearly a fifth of world energy supplies... or that terrorists might strike again at the Abqaiq facility in Saudi Arabia... or that Venezuela might shut off its oil deliveries... we Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas.

And take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: we've got lots of both.

Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems - as if we all didn't know that already.

But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all.

Starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more pipelines... build more nuclear plants... create jobs with clean coal... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal, and other alternative sources.

We need American energy resources, brought to you by American ingenuity, and produced by American workers.

Gotcha. Energy is a big deal. I agree. You are going to drill and look for other sources of energy. How will we fund the new plants and research in alternative sources. Should public funds be used? Should we give tax breaks to companies doing this sort of research? This really is a big deal and a major security concern.

You say you know the North Slope of Alaska. I would like to hear more on that. There are lots of competing figures being thrown about with regards to how productive it will eventually be. I would like some more insight from someone close to the issue.

I've noticed a pattern with our opponent. Maybe you have, too.

We've all heard his dramatic speeches before devoted followers. And there is much to like and admire about our opponent.

How are you going to be better off if our opponent adds a massive tax burden to the American economy?


But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate.

This is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting, and never use the word "victory" except when he's talking about his own campaign. But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed... when the roar of the crowd fades away... when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent's plan?

What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger... take more of your money... give you more orders from Washington... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy... our opponent is against producing it.

Victory in Iraq is finally in sight... he wants to forfeit.

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay... he wants to meet them without preconditions.

Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights? Government is too big... he wants to grow it.

Congress spends too much... he promises more. Taxes are too high... he wants to raise them. His tax increases are the fine print in his economic plan, and let me be specific.

The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes... raise payroll taxes... raise investment income taxes... raise the death tax... raise business taxes... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars.

My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses.

How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up? Or maybe you're trying to keep your job at a plant in Michigan or Ohio... or create jobs with clean coal from Pennsylvania or West Virginia... or keep a small farm in the family right here in Minnesota.

How are you going to be better off if our opponent adds a massive tax burden to the American economy?

I know you disagree with Mr. Obama, if you didn't you would not be running against him. How do you differ? What makes your plans better? Victory may be in sight in Iraq, but it is not here yet. How will you and Mr. McCain ensure that the job is finished to our satisfaction? What does victory look like in Iraq? You want a smaller government, what programs do you propose we cut? You want to keep taxes low, do you also propose a spending cut or should we continue with racking up the national debt? If you want to cut spending, where will you do it?


Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election.

In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers. And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change.

They're the ones whose names appear on laws and landmark reforms, not just on buttons and banners, or on self-designed presidential seals.

Among politicians, there is the idealism of high-flown speechmaking, in which crowds are stirringly summoned to support great things.

There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you... in places where winning means survival and defeat means death... and that man is John McCain


And then there is the idealism of those leaders, like John McCain, who actually do great things. They're the ones who are good for more than talk... the ones we have always been able to count on to serve and defend America.

Senator McCain's record of actual achievement and reform helps explain why so many special interests, lobbyists, and comfortable committee chairmen in Congress have fought the prospect of a McCain presidency - from the primary election of 2000 to this very day.

Our nominee doesn't run with the Washington herd.

He's a man who's there to serve his country, and not just his party.

A leader who's not looking for a fight, but is not afraid of one either. Harry Reid, the Majority Leader of the current do-nothing Senate, not long ago summed up his feelings about our nominee.

He said, quote, "I can't stand John McCain." Ladies and gentlemen, perhaps no accolade we hear this week is better proof that we've chosen the right man. Clearly what the Majority Leader was driving at is that he can't stand up to John McCain.

That is only one more reason to take the maverick of the Senate and put him in the White House.

Democrats don't like McCain. Special interest groups don't like McCain. Why? What is he going to do to counter them? What are his plans? I realize you like him, if you didn't you wouldn't be on his ticket.

My fellow citizens, the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of "personal discovery." This world of threats and dangers is not just a community, and it doesn't just need an organiser.

And though both Senator Obama and Senator Biden have been going on lately about how they are always, quote, "fighting for you," let us face the matter squarely.

There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you... in places where winning means survival and defeat means death... and that man is John McCain. In our day, politicians have readily shared much lesser tales of adversity than the nightmare world in which this man, and others equally brave, served and suffered for their country.

It's a long way from the fear and pain and squalor of a six-by-four cell in Hanoi to the Oval Office.

But if Senator McCain is elected president, that is the journey he will have made.

It's the journey of an upright and honourable man - the kind of fellow whose name you will find on war memorials in small towns across this country, only he was among those who came home.

To the most powerful office on earth, he would bring the compassion that comes from having once been powerless... the wisdom that comes even to the captives, by the grace of God... the special confidence of those who have seen evil, and seen how evil is overcome.

A fellow prisoner of war, a man named Tom Moe of Lancaster, Ohio, recalls looking through a pin-hole in his cell door as Lieutenant Commander John McCain was led down the hallway, by the guards, day after day.

As the story is told: "When McCain shuffled back from torturous interrogations, he would turn toward Moe's door and flash a grin and thumbs up" - as if to say, "We're going to pull through this." My fellow Americans, that is the kind of man America needs to see us through these next four years.

For a season, a gifted speaker can inspire with his words.

For a lifetime, John McCain has inspired with his deeds.

McCain's service is honorable and he deserves every commendation he has recieved. I have no doubt about that, and I have no doubt that he is personally a man of integrity and character. I have met many men of integrity and character. I have met many men who have admirably served their country in the armed services. Not many of them felt that they were uniquely suited for the presidency. What unique qualities does John McCain have? Why John McCain instead of one of the other prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton?

If character is the measure in this election... and hope the theme... and change the goal we share, then I ask you to join our cause. Join our cause and help America elect a great man as the next president of the United States.

Character is important, as I do not want a President who is a charlatan or a liar. However, I also want to know what he intends to do. Many people have good character and it is possible to have good character and disagree on policy issues. I would like to hear more about that.

Thank you all, and may God bless America.

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

[mad_fan]

These are getting to be like golf threads...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

:rolleyes:

[HUM398]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

You are expecting way too much out of a Convention speech. Those are the types of questions that are best answered during debates and looking at her record. You have an hour to give a speech, giving the public the details is....well boring. you don't do a whole lot of public speaking... do you?

[slorch]

I agree with most of your comments above, although this speech was more like a first date, IMO. Just the basics.

I think the reason McCain, and not one of his fellow POW in Hanoi should be considered for President is his political record and his willingness to continue to serve his country publicly.

The military service and leadership in the Hanoi Hilton, IMO, cannot be taken lightly. How many people have ever had to do that? I never did, even though I served also.

The personal fortitude and constitution required by John McCain as a senior officer and son of a highly decorated military officer that was immensely prestigious target for the VC indellibly portrays leadership qualities that do differentiate him from the other prisoners at Hanoi, only that McCain, by all accounts, refused to ever accept defferential treatment.

I think it is beyond the comprehension of 99% of the people on the planet what McCain went through, but his level of leadership that was required in that situation is unrecognizable to most also.

His political record is out there for everyone to see. It still has holes in it that I disagree with, but not near as many as barack Obama's. We can measurably compare the likes and dislikes of the two candidates. I just struggle with the folks that want to write off McCain's experience that he brings to the table. he has demonstrated proven leadership through one of the most treacherous situations a human being could ever encounter. Some folks( not neccessarily you) just want to act like it was a tough summer in Vietnam that doesn't mean much now. Should he be elected POTUS for that? Certainly not, but it sure does provide insight as to how this man will serve.

[jtk1519]

These are convention speeches. They're political pep rallies. You don't expect the head football coach to get up at the pep rally and detail how they're going to exploit the backside blitz or what play they want to go to on 3rd and 5 against a base cover 2, and you don't go into a political convention expecting the speakers to do anything more than fire up the troops. The troops don't get fired up hearing about business tax credits or economic diversification. You fire up the troops by make cracks about Styrofoam columns and tales of heroism.

Palin did exactly what she was supposed to do... she fired up a political base that viewed McCain to be about as exciting as 2% milk. The blue-haired Republicans were already fine with McCain, but Palin appealed to the younger side of the party who think McCain looks like an extra from a Murder She Wrote episode. The details will come on the campaign trail and at the debates.

[ktCarl]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

Time constraints did not allow such an in depth speech that you were looking for and you must have not witnessed many RNC's nor DNC's. The VP nominee usually only has time for a short, light speech that is intended as a rah rah for their POTUS nominee and not the other guy. Plus, the VP isn't going to run the Executive Branch of this Country. Most of your questions are the responsibility of McCain...unfortunately. (I did like that she sold the Alaskan Governor's airplane on EBay!)

I do believe your questions should be answered and probably will during the course of this Presidential campaign.

The guys up here at the office are calling her V Pilf. :rolleyes:

[mojotrain]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

Yeah little red. Its too late to change your under pants.

[Firebird]

You are expecting way too much out of a Convention speech. Those are the types of questions that are best answered during debates and looking at her record. You have an hour to give a speech, giving the public the details is....well boring. you don't do a whole lot of public speaking... do you?

Actually, I do quite a bit of public speaking. Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but I have heard quite a bit of griping about scripted speeches that don't really say anything and are vague on the specifics.

[Dawg Fan]

Actually, I do quite a bit of public speaking. Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but I have heard quite a bit of griping about scripted speeches that don't really say anything and are vague on the specifics.

asking for specifics from a short speech is a little foolish. You know as well as I do that these speeches at the convention lay out an outline. The specifics will be discussed from this point on. I think you are trying to be critical without any foundation.

[Firebird]

asking for specifics from a short speech is a little foolish. You know as well as I do that these speeches at the convention lay out an outline. The specifics will be discussed from this point on. I think you are trying to be critical without any foundation.

No! Could it be that someone would do that on 5atexasfootball.com? Say it isn't true!

[slorch]

Actually, I do quite a bit of public speaking. Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but I have heard quite a bit of griping about scripted speeches that don't really say anything and are vague on the specifics.

where's the U-tubes?

[Firebird]

where's the U-tubes?

I only speak off the record.:cool:

Actually, it's about things that no one cares enough about to you-tube. I'm probably not very good, and certainly don't do it on a big stage like Palin.

[HUM398]

I only speak off the record.:cool:

Actually, it's about things that no one cares enough about to you-tube. I'm probably not very good, and certainly don't do it on a big stage like Palin.

Im sure someone cares...just none of us. :cool:

[HUM398]

Actually, I do quite a bit of public speaking. Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but I have heard quite a bit of griping about scripted speeches that don't really say anything and are vague on the specifics.

thats because those speeches are addressing specific groups, and were the reoccurring "blah blah blah...blah and blah" speeches.

[Firebird]

thats because those speeches are addressing specific groups, and were the reoccurring "blah blah blah...blah and blah" speeches.

I seem to recall some griping about Michelle Obama's convention address...maybe I am just imagining it, though.....

[TulsaHale74]

Actually, I do quite a bit of public speaking. Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but I have heard quite a bit of griping about scripted speeches that don't really say anything and are vague on the specifics.
Obviously this is a new phenomenon in politics.:rolleyes:

Can't we just find the Will R. or Mark T. golden quotations instead of thinking current political observations are "new and improved"?

[stevefoxsc]

who cares about the speeches, shes a milf

[HUM398]

I seem to recall some griping about Michelle Obama's convention address...maybe I am just imagining it, though.....

I wasn't watching it...i was busy being proud of my country.

[twcpfan1]

The contents of the speech was predictable. That comes as no surprise to anybody.

The whole Republican angle here is for people to like the delivery of that speech and the package that delivery comes in. They can't make speeches like that overly detailed or complicated because it's essentially being made at a nationally televised pep rally, and has to appeal to all.

They accomplished what they set out to do. She did her job as a vp nominee by being the attack pitbull on the presidential nominee's behalf and she managed to do it not coming off as overly nasty. On top of that, her family appeared to be just regular folks and came off as pleasantly uncomfortable under the limelight. People like that.

I think Barack is in trouble. Only way they win is to dig up more dirt on her. At this point, Biden is a waste of oxygen.

[ktCarl]

who cares about the speeches, shes a milf

Maybe in a few months.... VPilf.

[twcpfan1]

I seem to recall some griping about Michelle Obama's convention address...maybe I am just imagining it, though.....


But of course. Nobody here likes her. Me included :D

[Firebird]

The contents of the speech was predictable. That comes as no surprise to anybody.

The whole Republican angle here is for people to like the delivery of that speech and the package that delivery comes in. They can't make speeches like that overly detailed or complicated because it's essentially being made at a nationally televised pep rally, and has to appeal to all.

They accomplished what they set out to do. She did her job as a vp nominee by being the attack pitbull on the presidential nominee's behalf and she managed to do it not coming off as overly nasty. On top of that, her family appeared to be just regular folks and came off as pleasantly uncomfortable under the limelight. People like that.

I think Barack is in trouble. Only way they win is to dig up more dirt on her. At this point, Biden is a waste of oxygen.

Various organizations are working overtime on that one. The Enquirer is alleging that she had an affair with her husband's business partner. The Enquirer, as you will recall, was the first to dig up John Edwards' dirt.......

Not saying that this one is also true, but one must bear in mind that they have gotten things right before.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/03/politics/fromtheroad/entry4413030.shtml

[twcpfan1]

Various organizations are working overtime on that one. The Enquirer is alleging that she had an affair with her husband's business partner. The Enquirer, as you will recall, was the first to dig up John Edwards' dirt.......

Not saying that this one is also true, but one must bear in mind that they have gotten things right before.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/03/politics/fromtheroad/entry4413030.shtml


Saw that on CNN earlier. Hence my previous comment.

[pied]

Saw that on CNN earlier. Hence my previous comment.

So just to be clear, dig dirt and publicize about Edwards = alright.

Dig dirt and publicize about Sarah Palin = Liberal media conspiracy directed by Barack Obama?

[Firebird]

I agree with most of your comments above, although this speech was more like a first date, IMO. Just the basics.

I think the reason McCain, and not one of his fellow POW in Hanoi should be considered for President is his political record and his willingness to continue to serve his country publicly.

The military service and leadership in the Hanoi Hilton, IMO, cannot be taken lightly. How many people have ever had to do that? I never did, even though I served also.

The personal fortitude and constitution required by John McCain as a senior officer and son of a highly decorated military officer that was immensely prestigious target for the VC indellibly portrays leadership qualities that do differentiate him from the other prisoners at Hanoi, only that McCain, by all accounts, refused to ever accept defferential treatment.

I think it is beyond the comprehension of 99% of the people on the planet what McCain went through, but his level of leadership that was required in that situation is unrecognizable to most also.

His political record is out there for everyone to see. It still has holes in it that I disagree with, but not near as many as barack Obama's. We can measurably compare the likes and dislikes of the two candidates. I just struggle with the folks that want to write off McCain's experience that he brings to the table. he has demonstrated proven leadership through one of the most treacherous situations a human being could ever encounter. Some folks( not neccessarily you) just want to act like it was a tough summer in Vietnam that doesn't mean much now. Should he be elected POTUS for that? Certainly not, but it sure does provide insight as to how this man will serve.


I strongly believe that proven leadership capacity should be something that voters keep in mind and I also believe that McCain's military experience certainly provides that. However, the ability to lead tells you only that. Because leading the country involves different things than leading people as a Navy Officer, I think he should have to address that. I guess the question is, where is he wanting to lead us and not can he lead us. I have no doubt about the latter, but I would venture to say that in most speeches he has been at least as vague as Obama on the former.

[pied]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

I thought it was a very good speech and did exactly what it set out to and more.

I think the things that it will be rembered for by me are three things:


Her off the cuff pit bull comment-It showed the fight in her and one of the reasons she is popular
Family-Her description of her youngest, coupled with the family joining her on stage was different than what any male could ever pull off. Men may love their families as much or more, but is really was an incredible image. To me at least.
The tone. As an up for grabs voter, much of this did not sit well with me. Seemed over the top, and the tone I think it sets for the campaign is more dark than I want.


Here is a part I am directly speaking about regarding #3.

What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger... take more of your money... give you more orders from Washington... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy... our opponent is against producing it.

Victory in Iraq is finally in sight... he wants to forfeit.

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay... he wants to meet them without preconditions.

Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights? Government is too big... he wants to grow it.

Congress spends too much... he promises more. Taxes are too high... he wants to raise them. His tax increases are the fine print in his economic plan, and let me be specific.

The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes... raise payroll taxes... raise investment income taxes... raise the death tax... raise business taxes... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars.

The initial statement of turning back the waters turned me off. The rest of this part read like these stupid chain emails going around.

Mrs. pied loved it, and I realized that's the point. Right or Wrong, this campaign is going to be centered around an us against them mentality.

The good, Christian, Military backing, valued Republicans will be fighting against the evil Left wing, God-hating, Military spitting on, muslim Obama suporters.

From the looks of the arena last night and the majority of the talk around here, that's what the voting Republicans want. That's almost exactly why I have no idea who I am voting for come November.

[slorch]

I strongly believe that proven leadership capacity should be something that voters keep in mind and I also believe that McCain's military experience certainly provides that. However, the ability to lead tells you only that. Because leading the country involves different things than leading people as a Navy Officer, I think he should have to address that. I guess the question is, where is he wanting to lead us and not can he lead us. I have no doubt about the latter, but I would venture to say that in most speeches he has been at least as vague as Obama on the former.

so i must ask you, if we are to ignore McCain's leadership because" Because leading the country involves different things than leading people as a Navy Officer," and Obama has demonstrated no leadership in a similar capacity or levity, then how could I as a voter ever differentiate between the two when it comes to leadership quality?

I guess we could go on Public Speaking, as the media has...:rolleyes:

[slorch]

I thought it was a very good speech and did exactly what it set out to and more.

I think the things that it will be rembered for by me are three things:


Her off the cuff pit bull comment-It showed the fight in her and one of the reasons she is popular
Family-Her description of her youngest, coupled with the family joining her on stage was different than what any male could ever pull off. Men may love their families as much or more, but is really was an incredible image. To me at least.
The tone. As an up for grabs voter, much of this did not sit well with me. Seemed over the top, and the tone I think it sets for the campaign is more dark than I want.


Here is a part I am directly speaking about regarding #3.

What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger... take more of your money... give you more orders from Washington... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world. America needs more energy... our opponent is against producing it.

Victory in Iraq is finally in sight... he wants to forfeit.

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay... he wants to meet them without preconditions.

Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights? Government is too big... he wants to grow it.

Congress spends too much... he promises more. Taxes are too high... he wants to raise them. His tax increases are the fine print in his economic plan, and let me be specific.

The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes... raise payroll taxes... raise investment income taxes... raise the death tax... raise business taxes... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars.

The initial statement of turning back the waters turned me off. The rest of this part read like these stupid chain emails going around.

Mrs. pied loved it, and I realized that's the point. Right or Wrong, this campaign is going to be centered around an us against them mentality.

The good, Christian, Military backing, valued Republicans will be fighting against the evil Left wing, God-hating, Military spitting on, muslim Obama suporters.

From the looks of the arena last night and the majority of the talk around here, that's what the voting Republicans want. That's almost exactly why I have no idea who I am voting for come November.

you forgot to talk about voting against the evil lefties considerably lightening my wallet. That is a very important issue for me.

[pied]

you forgot to talk about voting against the evil lefties considerably lightening my wallet. That is a very important issue for me.

Me as well.

Can you point to the part in Obama's plan that will be considerably lightening your wallet?

(Please no copy/paste email)

[slorch]

Me as well.

Can you point to the part in Obama's plan that will be considerably lightening your wallet?

(Please no copy/paste email)

Who do you think I am, Phoenix?

My income tax going up from approx $9000/yr to $16k.

Nothing he is wanting to provide is worth $7k to me and my family. I'd rather buy my 15 year old's first car with it, since I earned it, ya know?

[Firebird]

so i must ask you, if we are to ignore McCain's leadership because" Because leading the country involves different things than leading people as a Navy Officer," and Obama has demonstrated no leadership in a similar capacity or levity, then how could I as a voter ever differentiate between the two when it comes to leadership quality?

I guess we could go on Public Speaking, as the media has...:rolleyes:


I don't believe anything of the sort. I have never suggested or intimated that his experience should be ignored. In fact, I clearly stated that I think it is one of the things a voter should take into account:

I strongly believe that proven leadership capacity should be something that voters keep in mind and I also believe that McCain's military experience certainly provides that

I really don't know how you jumped from that statement to "we should ignore McCain's leadership." My statement quoted above is nothing if not diametrically opposed to the words you put into my mouth. I am being serious when I say that I think you prefer to put words into my mouth because it is easier to respond to them that way.

With regards to the comment about the difference between being a Navy Officer and the President, I think it is painfully obvious that they are different and involve different things. His navy experience clearly suggests that he has character, grit and determination, and a capacity to lead. I want that in a president. However, if where he wants to go is not where I want to go, those qualities do me little good. It does not give me an indication on the policies he supports and how he intends to implement them. Hence the comment that he needs to address where he wants to take the country.

[twcpfan1]

So just to be clear, dig dirt and publicize about Edwards = alright.

Dig dirt and publicize about Sarah Palin = Liberal media conspiracy directed by Barack Obama?

If that's directed at me.. I didn't even give 2 sh.ts when the stuff about Edwards came out. Besides he was long gone from the race. And he's an ugly dude. So is the other cheater, Clinton. Hillary not Bill. :D j/k

Crap have you seen Palin? You don't really expect anybody to be fair minded about this, do you? :D

[pied]

Who do you think I am, Phoenix?

My income tax going up from approx $9000/yr to $16k.

Nothing he is wanting to provide is worth $7k to me and my family. I'd rather buy my 15 year old's first car with it, since I earned it, ya know?

Where did you come by that figure?

[pied]

If that's directed at me.. I didn't even give 2 sh.ts when the stuff about Edwards came out. Besides he was long gone from the race. And he's an ugly dude. So is the other cheater, Clinton. Hillary not Bill. :D j/k

Crap have you seen Palin? You don't really expect anybody to be fair minded about this, do you? :D

Not at you. Directed at those who think that dirt doesn't sell no matter the party.

[twcpfan1]

Not at you.


Well you could have. Cause I'm a narrow minded pig :D

[slorch]

I don't believe anything of the sort. I have never suggested or intimated that his experience should be ignored. In fact, I clearly stated that I think it is one of the things a voter should take into account:



I really don't know how you jumped from that statement to "we should ignore McCain's leadership." My statement quoted above is nothing if not diametrically opposed to the words I wrote. I am being serious when I say that I think you prefer to put words into my mouth because it is easier to respond to them that way.

With regards to the comment about the difference between being a Navy Officer and the President, I think it is painfully obvious that they are different and involve different things. His navy experience clearly suggests that he has character, grit and determination, and a capacity to lead. I want that in a president. However, if where he wants to go is not where I want to go, those qualities do me little good. It does not give me an indication on the policies he supports and how he intends to implement them. Hence the comment that he needs to address where he wants to take the country.

FIFY

You are something else, my friend. I'm in a good mood and I'm not getting jello-ed two days in a row. If you don't mean it, don't type it.

You cannot dismiss McCain's Naval service is not an indicator of his leadership because he hasn't been President yet. I'm saying that applies to both candidates, and I guess after we dismiss all of their non-presidential experience, we can compare something as arbitrary as orating or playing Madden...:rolleyes:

[pack75]

Let's do a fact check:

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

[Firebird]

FIFY

You are something else, my friend. I'm in a good mood and I'm not getting jello-ed two days in a row. If you don't mean it, don't type it.

You cannot dismiss McCain's Naval service is not an indicator of his leadership because he hasn't been President yet. I'm saying that applies to both candidates, and I guess after we dismiss all of their non-presidential experience, we can compare something as arbitrary as orating or playing Madden...:rolleyes:

I agree. Where have I suggested otherwise? I have said that he needs to show me something in addition to that. Specifically, a clear idea of what policies he wants to implement and how he plans to do that.

Is this really that difficult for you to understand. The idea that while leadership experience counts there needs to be a little bit more? Apparently so, because you persistently accuse me of saying we should ignore his military service when....and I will write this in big letter for you...I TYPED WORDS STATING THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

[slorch]

too bad we can't do a fact check on anything Obama has said in his speeches.;)

he's very safe sticking to rhetoric and schtick...

[pied]

too bad we can't do a fact check on anything Obama has said in his speeches.he's very safe sticking to rhetoric and schtick...

Why not?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

[slorch]

I agree. Where have I suggested otherwise? I have said that he needs to show me something in addition to that. Specifically, a clear idea of what policies he wants to implement and how he plans to do that.

.


You want to hear plans or measurable results?

[pack75]

too bad we can't do a fact check on anything Obama has said in his speeches.

he's very safe sticking to rhetoric and schtick...

You're right slorch...darn liberal America and the media.:rolleyes:

[CKE]

FIFY

You are something else, my friend. I'm in a good mood and I'm not getting jello-ed two days in a row. If you don't mean it, don't type it.

You cannot dismiss McCain's Naval service is not an indicator of his leadership because he hasn't been President yet. I'm saying that applies to both candidates, and I guess after we dismiss all of their non-presidential experience, we can compare something as arbitrary as orating or playing Madden...:rolleyes:

I would wreck obamalamadingdong in Madden :cool:

[slorch]

Why not?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

I should have used this-;)

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama, especially about himself.

[pack75]

Why not?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

Hey, there you go slorch.:)

[slorch]

I would wreck obamalamadingdong in Madden :cool:

i don't know he's pretty fly...:rolleyes:

[slorch]

Hey, there you go slorch.:)

I was being sarcastic. went back and corrected it.

Thank you for correcting me.:)

[Firebird]

You want to hear plans or measurable results?

Is it too much to ask for both? As telling as McCain's service is to his character and leadership, it tells me squat about what he wants to do as President. Is it too much to ask for a candidate that has both character and a clear plan?

[pied]

I should have used this-;)

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama, especially about himself.

I think he and his campaign have been very specific. To hear that shows me that people don't really care about the issues, they just want to say they do.

Any luck on coming up with that $7K figure yet?

[slorch]

Is it too much to ask for both? As telling as McCain's service is to his character and leadership, it tells me squat about what he wants to do as President. Is it too much to ask for a candidate that has both character and a clear plan?

Think you might be privy to any of that tonight?

The table is almost set. in the next two months, we'll see how dinner tastes from both sides of the political restaurant.

[Firebird]

I think he and his campaign have been very specific. To hear that shows me that people don't really care about the issues, they just want to say they do.

Any luck on coming up with that $7K figure yet?

Depending on a couple things with my wife's work, I will be paying somewhere in that range this upcoming year. Certainly in that bracket. That's if we are talking only about income taxes to the federal government. Based on Obama's stated intentions, that number would not change for me.

[slorch]

I think he and his campaign have been very specific. To hear that shows me that people don't really care about the issues, they just want to say they do.

Any luck on coming up with that $7K figure yet?

seems here's some more fact checking going on...:D
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

MY $7K FIGURE IS INCORRECT.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031678,obamamccaintaxplans.article

Looking at that article, though, I fundamentally disagree with all of those folks getting tax cuts except the wealthiest Americans, with a very substantial increase.

[dragonsdaddy]

Maybe in a few months.... VPilf.

i'd rather use the term vpilk(know). she truly seems to be someone that would be interesting to hang with. a hunting trip, or whatever. seems pretty upbeat. i bet she could get some donations to the pta, in her day. and pretty easy on the eyes.

[pied]

seems here's some more fact checking going on...:D
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

MY $7K FIGURE IS INCORRECT.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031678,obamamccaintaxplans.article

Looking at that article, though, I fundamentally disagree with all of those folks getting tax cuts except the wealthiest Americans, with a very substantial increase.

Makes my head spin.

Is this what you are referring to?

Under Obama’s plan to let the scheduled 2011 tax rate hikes occur, and his plan to raise the self-employment tax on those making more than $250,000, the S corporation rate would rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. The sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent.

If not can you clarify?

FactCheck on the above story.


The actual number of business owners who would be affected turns out to be well under a million, and the number of employers would be even less. Based on the number of taxpayers who now report any sort of business income on their returns, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projects that 663,608 taxpayers with business income, or business losses, will fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009, when any Obama tax changes would first take effect. Not all of those can properly be called "small-business owners," however. Some are farmers. Many are lawyers, accountants or other professionals who get some of their income in the form of partnership distributions. Others may be passive investors in real-estate partnerships or similar investment arrangements and not really persons who own and manage a business.

It is also not clear how many who report business income actually employ any workers. In 2004, the Tax Policy Center found that hundreds of thousands of individual taxpayers who had business income from partnerships or subchapter-S corporations (whose owners pay taxes as individuals) did not claim any tax deductions for employee expenses. For all these reasons we judge that the actual number of small-business employers who would face higher tax rates under Obama is probably far below 663,608, and certainly a far cry from McCain's ridiculously inflated 23 million figure.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

Still dont see the $7K figure, can you pinpoint?

I also struggle with people trying to explain the statement:

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama

[slorch]

I capitalized where I said the 7K was wrong.

you even quoted the post.

you want blood?:o:D

[slorch]

I also struggle with people trying to explain the statement:

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama- PIED

Do you know what he means by changing our country?

[pied]

I capitalized where I said the 7K was wrong.

you even quoted the post.

you want blood?:o:D

Oops. Think I copied it before your edit.

Haven't seen that chart. Interesting. The $227k+ number seems high at $23K. Not too proud to say I am not in that bracket.

I'd be curious if those are the ranges or is that a floor?

How do you feel about the amount less paid by the lower brackets than those in the higher?

The tax plans........................................Obama ...............McCain
$227,000 - a year - plus.........................$23,000 more......$15,000 less
$112,000 - $227,000 (15% of population)...$2,300 less.........$3,200 less
$66,000 - $112,000 (20% of population)....$1,290 less..........$1,009 less
$38,000 - $66,000 (20% of population)......$1,042 less.............$319 less
$19,000 - $38,000 (20% of population).........$892 less.............$113 less
$0 - $19,000 (20% of population).................$567 less..............$19 less
Tax breaks for all: College credit: $4,000 a year per student in college Double dependent credit: from $3,500 to $7,000
Impact of tax changes on federal budget:...Returns $700 billion...Costs $600 billion
Source: Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. Numbers are estimates and averages.


That's a swing of $1.3 Trillion.

[yallerjacket]

I also struggle with people trying to explain the statement:

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama- PIED

Do you know what he means by changing our country?

He means our country and government is f'ed up right now and he wants to un-f it. Simple enough.

[pied]

I also struggle with people trying to explain the statement:

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama- PIED

Do you know what he means by changing our country?

I know what I hear from it.

Iknow there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan Horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values. And that's to be expected. Because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from.


You make a big election about small things.

And you know what - it's worked before. Because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping, and settle for what you already know.

I get it. I realize that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office. I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington.

But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the nay-sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me. It's been about you.

For eighteen long months, you have stood up, one by one, and said enough to the politics of the past. You understand that in this election, the greatest risk we can take is to try the same old politics with the same old players and expect a different result. You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington. Change happens because the American people demand it - because they rise up and insist on new ideas and new leadership, a new politics for a new time.

America, this is one of those moments.

I believe that as hard as it will be, the change we need is coming. Because I've seen it. Because I've lived it. I've seen it in Illinois, when we provided health care to more children and moved more families from welfare to work. I've seen it in Washington, when we worked across party lines to open up government and hold lobbyists more accountable, to give better care for our veterans and keep nuclear weapons out of terrorist hands.

And I've seen it in this campaign. In the young people who voted for the first time, and in those who got involved again after a very long time. In the Republicans who never thought they'd pick up a Democratic ballot, but did. I've seen it in the workers who would rather cut their hours back a day than see their friends lose their jobs, in the soldiers who re-enlist after losing a limb, in the good neighbors who take a stranger in when a hurricane strikes and the floodwaters rise.

I may be drinking the kool-aid. I admit it, but I am tired of the old crap. I am tired of the attack attack attack on non-issues and chain emails.

[twcpfan1]

The problem with taxing businesses more is that ultimately the low income consumer pays more for goods and services to cover the tax increase. No choice. Businesses have to cover the increase somehow. That's what Obama and the Dems fail to point out. Ultimately it's the middle class who pays for it.

[pied]

The problem with taxing businesses more is that ultimately the low income consumer pays more for goods and services to cover the tax increase. No choice. Businesses have to cover the increase somehow. That's what Obama and the Dems fail to point out. Ultimately it's the middle class who pays for it.

I would admit this is above my paygrade. From the fact check site.


McCain is right about one thing. Many small-business owners would indeed see their taxes go up if Obama is elected and raises the top income-tax rates. According to a survey from the National Federation of Independent Businesses, about eight out of 10 small-business owners responding to the poll report that they are organized legally in a way that would require them to pay taxes on their business income as individuals, rather than as a corporation. But since Obama's plan wouldn't affect those making less than $250,000 for couples, or about $200,000 for singles, we need to estimate how many would fall into those high-income categories.

Obama's plan, according to his economic policy director Jason Furman, would return the top two federal income-tax rates to what they were before Bush lowered them. In addition, Obama would adjust the income-tax brackets to ensure that no married couple making under $250,000 or single filer making under $200,000 would pay the top rates.

The actual number of business owners who would be affected turns out to be well under a million, and the number of employers would be even less. Based on the number of taxpayers who now report any sort of business income on their returns, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projects that 663,608 taxpayers with business income, or business losses, will fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009, when any Obama tax changes would first take effect. Not all of those can properly be called "small-business owners," however. Some are farmers. Many are lawyers, accountants or other professionals who get some of their income in the form of partnership distributions. Others may be passive investors in real-estate partnerships or similar investment arrangements and not really persons who own and manage a business.

It is also not clear how many who report business income actually employ any workers. In 2004, the Tax Policy Center found that hundreds of thousands of individual taxpayers who had business income from partnerships or subchapter-S corporations (whose owners pay taxes as individuals) did not claim any tax deductions for employee expenses. For all these reasons we judge that the actual number of small-business employers who would face higher tax rates under Obama is probably far below 663,608, and certainly a far cry from McCain's ridiculously inflated 23 million figure.


Not to say that 663,608 is a low number.


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

[texan_75010]

These are convention speeches. They're political pep rallies. You don't expect the head football coach to get up at the pep rally and detail how they're going to exploit the backside blitz or what play they want to go to on 3rd and 5 against a base cover 2, and you don't go into a political convention expecting the speakers to do anything more than fire up the troops. The troops don't get fired up hearing about business tax credits or economic diversification. You fire up the troops by make cracks about Styrofoam columns and tales of heroism.

Palin did exactly what she was supposed to do... she fired up a political base that viewed McCain to be about as exciting as 2% milk. The blue-haired Republicans were already fine with McCain, but Palin appealed to the younger side of the party who think McCain looks like an extra from a Murder She Wrote episode. The details will come on the campaign trail and at the debates.


Ditto!

I swear some of these people attend the pep rally and wonder why you aren't on the field playing the game. ITS A CONVENTION....A PEP RALLY.

[Dawg Fan]

Let's do a fact check:

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

is that your best shot? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[mojotrain]

I agree. Where have I suggested otherwise? I have said that he needs to show me something in addition to that. Specifically, a clear idea of what policies he wants to implement and how he plans to do that.

Is this really that difficult for you to understand. The idea that while leadership experience counts there needs to be a little bit more? Apparently so, because you persistently accuse me of saying we should ignore his military service when....and I will write this in big letter for you...I TYPED WORDS STATING THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

Your guy got the democratic nomination by not offering details of his intentions and only spoke of change. Before this election comes to a end McCain will give you the details on his goals and how he hopes to reach them. I assure you it will be in time for you to compare and make a sound decision based on the better for all US citizens and not just the betterment of your position.

I want to see what his ideas are on future US Supreme Court judges might be. We don't want any socialist in there. Do we?

[Firebird]

Your guy got the democratic nomination by not offering details of his intentions and only spoke of change. Before this election comes to a end McCain will give you the details on his goals and how he hopes to reach them. I assure you it will be in time for you to compare and make a sound decision based on the better for all US citizens and not just the betterment of your position.

I want to see what his ideas are on future US Supreme Court judges might be. We don't want any socialist in there. Do we?

1. Who is my guy?

2. I find it amusing that you say we should vote for the better of all U.S. citizens, and contrast that to the evil socialists. Free market folks are pretty blunt in saying that rational selfishness is the best way to operate.

[the_phoenix612]

From AP reporter Jim Kuhnhenn:



ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.


Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

___

Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.

[mojotrain]

The problem with taxing businesses more is that ultimately the low income consumer pays more for goods and services to cover the tax increase. No choice. Businesses have to cover the increase somehow. That's what Obama and the Dems fail to point out. Ultimately it's the middle class who pays for it.

You have it exactly correct. If I have a company and I employ 700 people and I make a sinful amount of dollars above the total cost of the operation of that company, thats the way I like it and thats the way I will keep it. I will maintain my profit margin. If I can exceed what I think I need then I will expand and I will need to hire more imployees. If obama messes with that profit margin in the least I will raise the price of the goods I produce. Or.... If my pockets are full I'll lock the doors, just send 700 people home. The goverment could keep it open. We know how that works out.

That is the most elementary of all economic lessons. I don't think that is being taught anymore in schools. At least for some reason it sails over the heads of most of us. This is one reason why, today, States or Citys that offer tax breaks to companys who are looking to change locations are having success in drawing those companys to there locations. Thats real, that creats jobs and in the long haul creates more moneys for those citys. Unique idea, huh?

I believe simply taxing the rich is not all obama wants. Is he intent on a agenda to redistribute the wealth of America. If so, what then? IMO Once it's done whoever was rich will survive, a few will prosper. What was the middle class will exist but will be the new poor class. Where do you suppose those on the bottom will be? Would you suppose this is where the goverment takes total control? It would be the perfect time, doncha think?

I have no college drgree and had I not dated the spanish teachers daughter once as a bribe for a grade I would not have a high school diploma. That 3 I,s in one sentence. Thats enough.

Brought to you- all as a public service message from the train. No quotes given, no quotes ask.

PS I don't do no public speaking but I guess I might if ask.;

[mojotrain]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

Come to think of it, yes! To whom are you directing this.

[t-long20]

too bad we can't do a fact check on anything Obama has said in his speeches.;)

he's very safe sticking to rhetoric and schtick...
Why not?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html
I should have used this-;)

I was alluding to the lack of specifics used by Obama, especially about himself.



Wow. pied has been pwning slorch at every corner.


If only I had a nickel for every time Obama was mentioned in a GOP or Palin thread.

[CKE]

Wow. pied has been pwning slorch at every corner.


If only I had a nickel for every time Obama was mentioned in a GOP or Palin thread.

yet you have kept quite and glorify someone else' pwning......nice ;)

[dragonsdaddy]

Come to think of it, yes! To whom are you directing this.
the ether

[t-long20]

yet you have kept quite and glorify someone else' pwning......nice ;)

Why waste my time? Anyone knows I've posted on political threads as much as the next person.

Pied and Firebird are the only political posters who are consistant with looking at both sides. It's easy to bash someone and not look at your own faults yet they refrain from doing it.

I don't enter political threads to hear about the latest Obama jokes or McCain jokes.

[Dawg Fan]

From AP reporter Jim Kuhnhenn:



ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.


Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

___

Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.

Jim Kuhnhenn is a liberal biased reporter ....check out the rnc thread

[GoOwls]

Why waste my time? Anyone knows I've posted on political threads as much as the next person.

Pied and Firebird are the only political posters who are consistant with looking at both sides. It's easy to bash someone and not look at your own faults yet they refrain from doing it.

I don't enter political threads to hear about the latest Obama jokes or McCain jokes.

Wrong.....firebird has changed.....he has lost his objectivity once he made a political choice.....it's in the printed words....no specifically, but certainly implied.....like a truck hitting a wall.

[Firebird]

Wrong.....firebird has changed.....he has lost his objectivity once he made a political choice.....it's in the printed words....no specifically, but certainly implied.....like a truck hitting a wall.

Which political choice have I made?

[GoOwls]

1. Who is my guy?
2. I find it amusing that you say we should vote for the better of all U.S. citizens, and contrast that to the evil socialists. Free market folks are pretty blunt in saying that rational selfishness is the best way to operate.

Bird...you've changed...for the worse...you've lost your objectivity...sad.

[Firebird]

Jim Kuhnhenn is a liberal biased reporter ....check out the rnc thread

I know, it's like he copies and pastes from chain e-mails or something.

[Firebird]

Bird...you've changed...for the worse...you've lost your objectivity...sad.

Who is my guy?

[Firebird]

Wrong.....firebird has changed.....he has lost his objectivity once he made a political choice.....it's in the printed words....no specifically, but certainly implied.....like a truck hitting a wall.

By the way, it is exceedingly ironic that a poster who is an open advocate of certain candidates is decrying my non-objectivity.

[RedRage00]

Bird...you've changed...for the worse...you've lost your objectivity...sad.

What's sad is you thinking you have everyone figured out. You're a mail man, not Dr. Laura.

[Firebird]

By the way....for the sake of full disclosure...'Bird is currently leaning towards Bob Barr as a protest vote.

[katyfan52]

Jim Kuhnhenn is a liberal biased reporter ....check out the rnc thread
Could you be more specific? It's a big thread. :)

[Firebird]

What's sad is you thinking you have everyone figured out. You're a mail man, not Dr. Laura.

We have lots of mind readers on this forum. I'm forever being told by someone else what I think.;)

[pied]

Could you be more specific? It's a big thread. :)

copy/paste chain email on the last page, go figure....

AP writer Jim Kuhnhenn tries his hand at politics.

September 4, 2008 by seethirty

I was just reading an engrossing article in which Jim Kuhnhenn, a writer with the Associated Press, attempts to give us a thorough breakdown of the facts in some speeches made at the Republican National Convention.
......


http://5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=32952&page=12

[Dawg Fan]

copy/paste chain email on the last page, go figure....




http://5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=32952&page=12

you really do think highly of yourself don't you?:rolleyes:

[pied]

you really do think highly of yourself don't you?:rolleyes:

I'm a sip, we're arrogant. It's just the way it is, right?

Since we're asking questions, do you ever read critically this crap you copy/paste? Or does it just sound good.

[RedRage00]

I'm a sip, we're arrogant. It's just the way it is, right?

Since we're asking questions, do you ever read critically this crap you copy/paste? Or does it just sound good.

You're taking the board too serious!

Signed,
#1dawgfan

[katyfan52]

copy/paste chain email on the last page, go figure....




http://5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=32952&page=12

In other words, there's no reason particular reason to not give the reporter the benefit of the doubt? Thanks. :)

[GoOwls]

We have lots of mind readers on this forum. I'm forever being told by someone else what I think.;)

No...your words tell everyone what you think.....or you lie a lot....;)

[ktCarl]

This may have already been posted but I'm too lazy to read all the pages....

I can't wait for the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden debate. I think she could hold her own against Obama in a debate too.

You guys get too riled up amongst each other. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[GoOwls]

By the way, it is exceedingly ironic that a poster who is an open advocate of certain candidates is decrying my non-objectivity.

Where did I ever claim objectivity......I'm pointing out your loss of it.....;)

If you remember dear Bird.....early on....I was very torn on the subject of McCain.....I posted many times about not even voting.....Palin made the choice for me.


You have always represented yourself as being the always complete and prepared poster who has the document and answers for everything.....always.

This election, you have become a stump for the libs......you never attack your lib brothers...only us ignorant conservatives.....oh yes....we really aren't even conservatives to you since we don't know the difference between policy and philosophy.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You impressed me by being informantive without being judgemental....you have truly changed into a liberal attack dog....truly sad...I had hopes for you.......

.......or you're just jerking everybody around.......

........but that's not you either...is it? ;)

[the_phoenix612]

This may have already been posted but I'm too lazy to read all the pages....

I can't wait for the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden debate. I think she could hold her own against Obama in a debate too.

You guys get too riled up amongst each other. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

are you joking?

palin is going to get annihilated in the debates

she sounds just fine telling people about her family and making general lies to fire up the base, but against Obama, let alone against Joe Biden, she's going to get killed.

they're going to have to send someone out with a broom to pick up all the little pieces of sarah palin that are left.

[GoOwls]

What's sad is you thinking you have everyone figured out. You're a mail man, not Dr. Laura.

OOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Mr. Accountant just told me........and you're more like Dr. Laura.....;) :D

[the_phoenix612]

OOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Mr. Accountant just told me........and you're more like Dr. Laura.....;) :D

oh snap a gay joke.

mighty original there.

[twcpfan1]

This may have already been posted but I'm too lazy to read all the pages....

I can't wait for the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden debate. I think she could hold her own against Obama in a debate too.

You guys get too riled up amongst each other. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

I agree. They should act a lot more like these guys



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_ff46b58Hk

[GoOwls]

This may have already been posted but I'm too lazy to read all the pages....

I can't wait for the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden debate. I think she could hold her own against Obama in a debate too.

You guys get too riled up amongst each other. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

I think she could hold her own with Obama too. I've heard today where they are saying she did well with a teleprompter...well....so does Obama, the king of "Um and Uh" in non-scriped speaking engagements.

[sweetpea]

I have nothing against her but running with Mcclain. I was wishy washy about who to vote for until I got an e-mail for Veterans Affairs.


McClain was a Navy person that forgot that you never leave a person on a battle field. He of all people know that. My point is as following:


He want to keep the fighting going on , but what to cut off medical needs of people that get hurt! That is about as wishy washy as the come. I being a disable vet. don't like it. Yes, I hurt everyday, but get up and go to a job faithfully but I can't pay for all the med.'s they got me on. I feel that I'm blessed to serve my country, and come out alive, but I got people that was hurt worse than me.

You can vote for who you want, I will take a stand , when you ask people to fight a war and then when they get hurt , you turn your back on them.


Ask any D.A.V. org. or American Legion person, they will say the same.

[the_phoenix612]

I think she could hold her own with Obama too. I've heard today where they are saying she did well with a teleprompter...well....so does Obama, the king of "Um and Uh" in non-scriped speaking engagements.

yeah, because unlike the republicans, who just spit out catchphrases and one-liners that turn speeches into unintelligible pieces of crap (much like your posts, actually), Obama tries to explain his thinking in every answer.
Not a good strategy in today's soundbite world, but thats what he does.

Example of republican soundbiting and nonsensical-ness?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/delusional-john-mccain-peddles-alaska-is-close-to-russia-nonsense/

GIBSON: Can you honestly say you feel confident having someone who hasn’t traveled outside the United States until last year, dealing with an insurgent Russia, with an Iran with nuclear ambitions, with an unstable Pakistan, not to mention the war on terror?

MCCAIN: Sure. And one of the key elements of America’s national security requirements are energy. She understands the energy issues better than anybody I know in Washington, D.C., and she understands. Alaska is right next to Russia. She understands that.

“So she is experienced. She’s talented. She knows how to lead and she has been vetted by the people of the state of Alaska. But most importantly, people in America want change. They don’t want somebody from inside the beltway.”

MCCAIN: I said that he didn’t have the judgment. He doesn’t have the judgment. He didn’t have the judgment on Iraq. He still refuses to acknowledge that the surge has succeeded. Gov. Palin knows the surge has succeeded. She’s the commander of the Alaskan National Guard. He said that Iran was a tiny problem. He’s never visited south of our border. He has no experience on these issues.

[GoOwls]

oh snap a gay joke.

mighty original there.

No sir....you said something about gay.....who's gay anyway?

I was talking about Dr. Laura's snippy attitude.....you presume too much....;)

[the_phoenix612]

the internet has arrived.

http://lettucelaugh.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/poster48827624.jpg

[GoOwls]

yeah, because unlike the republicans, who just spit out catchphrases and one-liners that turn speeches into unintelligible pieces of crap (much like your posts, actually), Obama tries to explain his thinking in every answer.Not a good strategy in today's soundbite world, but thats what he does.

Example of republican soundbiting and nonsensical-ness?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/delusional-john-mccain-peddles-alaska-is-close-to-russia-nonsense/

GIBSON: Can you honestly say you feel confident having someone who hasn’t traveled outside the United States until last year, dealing with an insurgent Russia, with an Iran with nuclear ambitions, with an unstable Pakistan, not to mention the war on terror?

MCCAIN: Sure. And one of the key elements of America’s national security requirements are energy. She understands the energy issues better than anybody I know in Washington, D.C., and she understands. Alaska is right next to Russia. She understands that.

“So she is experienced. She’s talented. She knows how to lead and she has been vetted by the people of the state of Alaska. But most importantly, people in America want change. They don’t want somebody from inside the beltway.”

MCCAIN: I said that he didn’t have the judgment. He doesn’t have the judgment. He didn’t have the judgment on Iraq. He still refuses to acknowledge that the surge has succeeded. Gov. Palin knows the surge has succeeded. She’s the commander of the Alaskan National Guard. He said that Iran was a tiny problem. He’s never visited south of our border. He has no experience on these issues.

Obama tries to explain his thinking in every answer.

Oh really.....please show us these heretofore undisclosed answers and explainations......I would like to see how he will cut taxes and still fund all his mass of social programs.....among other undisclosed mysteries of his rhetoric.

[the_phoenix612]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09042008/news/politics/37_2_million_watch_palins_speech_127498.htm

[dragonsdaddy]

yeah, because unlike the democrats, who just spit out lies meant to appease and succor the weak and woeful whom they target, that turn speeches into unbelieveable pieces of crap (much like your posts, actually), Obama tries to create a tinge of honesty in every answer.
Not a good strategy in today's soundbite world, but thats what he does.

Example of republican soundbiting and nonsensical-ness?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/delusional-john-mccain-peddles-alaska-is-close-to-russia-nonsense/

GIBSON: Can you honestly say you feel confident having someone who hasn’t traveled outside the United States until last year, dealing with an insurgent Russia, with an Iran with nuclear ambitions, with an unstable Pakistan, not to mention the war on terror?

MCCAIN: Sure. And one of the key elements of America’s national security requirements are energy. She understands the energy issues better than anybody I know in Washington, D.C., and she understands. Alaska is right next to Russia. She understands that.

“So she is experienced. She’s talented. She knows how to lead and she has been vetted by the people of the state of Alaska. But most importantly, people in America want change. They don’t want somebody from inside the beltway.”

MCCAIN: I said that he didn’t have the judgment. He doesn’t have the judgment. He didn’t have the judgment on Iraq. He still refuses to acknowledge that the surge has succeeded. Gov. Palin knows the surge has succeeded. She’s the commander of the Alaskan National Guard. He said that Iran was a tiny problem. He’s never visited south of our border. He has no experience on these issues.fify

[dragonsdaddy]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09042008/news/politics/37_2_million_watch_palins_speech_127498.htm

right. now the ny times is used to prove your liberal point. good call, as there is no more liberal rag being printed daily.

[the_phoenix612]

right. now the ny times is used to prove your liberal point. good call, as there is no more liberal rag being printed daily.

the link was that palin's speech almost had as many viewers as obamas.

[pied]

Obama tries to explain his thinking in every answer.

Oh really.....please show us these heretofore undisclosed answers and explainations......I would like to see how he will cut taxes and still fund all his mass of social programs.....among other undisclosed mysteries of his rhetoric.

Do you really want to know, or just complain?

You can even look all the way to page three. A lot of other sources to see though, but somehow I think most rather not know, just complain.

The tax plans........................................Obama ...............McCain
$227,000 - a year - plus.........................$23,000 more......$15,000 less
$112,000 - $227,000 (15% of population)...$2,300 less.........$3,200 less
$66,000 - $112,000 (20% of population)....$1,290 less..........$1,009 less
$38,000 - $66,000 (20% of population)......$1,042 less.............$319 less
$19,000 - $38,000 (20% of population).........$892 less.............$113 less
$0 - $19,000 (20% of population).................$567 less..............$19 less
Tax breaks for all: College credit: $4,000 a year per student in college Double dependent credit: from $3,500 to $7,000
Impact of tax changes on federal budget:...Returns $700 billion...Costs $600 billion
Source: Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. Numbers are estimates and averages

I've asked where McCain's $$ is coming from for healthcare, any ideas?

[78 Spartan]

Count me as a moderate Republican who was enthusiastic about McCain (supported him strongly since 2000), but worried about his chances given the current political landscape and the pop culture Icon status of Obama. I was very skeptical of his decision to tap Palin. I personally wanted to see him go with Lieberman.

But Palin turned me around bigtime. I loved her and think she scares the pee out of Democrats. My guess is the Republicans are apt to get a pretty good bounce and will come out of this convention at about 47/47. (I am sure Lieberman will be offered Secretary of Defense or State, and McCain will get much of the same bi-partisan credit).

McCain still has an uphill struggle on his hands. It's like Perry Como vs. The Beatles in 1964. Fighting the Hollywood pop culture plus the MSM is like trying to keep water from running downhill.

But McCain's doing a great job keeping it close. As the economy improves, the situation in Iraq improves, and as Obama continues to stumble dealing with adverse international situations, I guess it gives McCain a chance.

Plus, electorally, I think Obama has to beat McCain by close to 1.5% in order to win the Electoral College. Millions and millions of votes for Obama in California, New York and Illinois will be wasted. If McCain wins close races in the tossup states, I could easily see him losing the popular vote and still winning in the Electoral College.

Plus (and this is unfortunate, but true) I think Obama is polling about 2% above reality due to closet racism. I hate that that's true, but I fear it is.

Still, I'd say Obama is a clear 3:2 favorite given the overall situation. The media will do anything they can in October to torpedo McCain and elevate Obama -- there is nothing I wouldn't put past them.

But Palin is a clear win for McCain, for what it's worth.

[RATTLERS316]

If Palin can say our troops in Iraq are doing Gods work, I can safely say that last night, I saw the face of the Devil

[Firebird]

Where did I ever claim objectivity......I'm pointing out your loss of it.....;)

If you remember dear Bird.....early on....I was very torn on the subject of McCain.....I posted many times about not even voting.....Palin made the choice for me.


You have always represented yourself as being the always complete and prepared poster who has the document and answers for everything.....always.

This election, you have become a stump for the libs......you never attack your lib brothers...only us ignorant conservatives.....oh yes....we really aren't even conservatives to you since we don't know the difference between policy and philosophy.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You impressed me by being informantive without being judgemental....you have truly changed into a liberal attack dog....truly sad...I had hopes for you.......

.......or you're just jerking everybody around.......

........but that's not you either...is it? ;)

Just because I "attack" the "conservatives" we have up on the stage in Minnesota does not mean I support the liberals. I stopped offering up documentation and facts. Don't want people to think I might be intellectual.;)

[Firebird]

right. now the ny times is used to prove your liberal point. good call, as there is no more liberal rag being printed daily.
Link was to NY Post.;)

[dragonsdaddy]

Link was to NY Post.;)

can i use the ever popular slow/intermittent internet access as to why i didn't read the link, or even the address right? cause the fact is, i didn't, for whatever reason.

[Dawg Fan]

the libs are in meltdown mode. It's not pretty. I love it


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[chhspantherfan]

If Palin can say our troops in Iraq are doing Gods work, I can safely say that last night, I saw the face of the Devil

and whom would that be?

[Dawg Fan]

In other words, there's no reason particular reason to not give the reporter the benefit of the doubt? Thanks. :)

Give him whatever you want, I think he has major liberal bias.

[Dawg Fan]

I have nothing against her but running with Mcclain. I was wishy washy about who to vote for until I got an e-mail for Veterans Affairs.


McClain was a Navy person that forgot that you never leave a person on a battle field. He of all people know that. My point is as following:


He want to keep the fighting going on , but what to cut off medical needs of people that get hurt! That is about as wishy washy as the come. I being a disable vet. don't like it. Yes, I hurt everyday, but get up and go to a job faithfully but I can't pay for all the med.'s they got me on. I feel that I'm blessed to serve my country, and come out alive, but I got people that was hurt worse than me.

You can vote for who you want, I will take a stand , when you ask people to fight a war and then when they get hurt , you turn your back on them.


Ask any D.A.V. org. or American Legion person, they will say the same.

who exactly is McClain? Isn't that the Bruce Willis character from the Die Hard series? My dad is a member of the American Legion and he has said no such thing and when asked said that was ridiculous. Vote for who you want and thank you for your service to this country.

[RATTLERS316]

and whom would that be?

i think u can figure that one out....:)

[tayb]

I vote for whoever makes college education free. I would much rather see a generation of students NOT graduate into 60,000 debt than universal health care... but that is just me...

Too bad neither political candidate wants to fulfill that goal.

[HUM398]

yeah, because unlike the republicans, who just spit out catchphrases and one-liners that turn speeches into unintelligible pieces of crap (much like your posts, actually), Obama tries to explain his thinking in every answer.
Not a good strategy in today's soundbite world, but thats what he does.

Example of republican soundbiting and nonsensical-ness?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/delusional-john-mccain-peddles-alaska-is-close-to-russia-nonsense/

GIBSON: Can you honestly say you feel confident having someone who hasn’t traveled outside the United States until last year, dealing with an insurgent Russia, with an Iran with nuclear ambitions, with an unstable Pakistan, not to mention the war on terror?

MCCAIN: Sure. And one of the key elements of America’s national security requirements are energy. She understands the energy issues better than anybody I know in Washington, D.C., and she understands. Alaska is right next to Russia. She understands that.

“So she is experienced. She’s talented. She knows how to lead and she has been vetted by the people of the state of Alaska. But most importantly, people in America want change. They don’t want somebody from inside the beltway.”

MCCAIN: I said that he didn’t have the judgment. He doesn’t have the judgment. He didn’t have the judgment on Iraq. He still refuses to acknowledge that the surge has succeeded. Gov. Palin knows the surge has succeeded. She’s the commander of the Alaskan National Guard. He said that Iran was a tiny problem. He’s never visited south of our border. He has no experience on these issues.


I'm going to give you a nickname... Select All

[slorch]

We have lots of mind readers on this forum. I'm forever being quoted by someone else what I write.;)

FIFY, and I still don't like jell-o...

[katyfan52]

I'm going to give you a nickname... Select All
;)

[dragonsdaddy]

FIFY, and I still don't like jell-o...

i'm betting you don't like tapioca either. am i right?

[slorch]

are you joking?

palin is going to get annihilated in the debates

she sounds just fine telling people about her family and making general lies to fire up the base, but against Obama, let alone against Joe Biden, she's going to get killed.

they're going to have to send someone out with a broom to pick up all the little pieces of sarah palin that are left.

Obama= Aggy
Palin= Arkansas State

I truly hope the Dems feel as overconfident as you do. Fact is, they don't know what to ask her, because just like you, they have theory and rhetoric, and she has real life experience.

[the_phoenix612]

Obama= Aggy
Palin= Arkansas State

I truly hope the Dems feel as overconfident as you do. Fact is, they don't know what to ask her, because just like you, they have theory and rhetoric, and she has real life experience.

yeah, real life experience raping the environment and opposing minority rights as much as possible.

[mojotrain]

I think she could hold her own with Obama too. I've heard today where they are saying she did well with a teleprompter...well....so does Obama, the king of "Um and Uh" in non-scriped speaking engagements.

He didn't "um and uh" when he said he had been to all 57 states.

[tayb]

yeah, real life experience raping the environment and opposing minority rights as much as possible.

I'd rather we **** the environment and make money off of it than someone else do it and make money off us.

[mojotrain]

The socialist and their gimmy followers are certainly in a panic mode now that the RNC is over. With very good reason. The lady and the old man grabbed a choke hold on the throat of the phoney tap dancing soap saleman from Ill. and his, blank eyed, business as usual croney selection that he chose as a VP and ripped them open. The liberial media is ready to jump ship and are wondering if Clinton should have been the pick.

It's over for the socialist, and that tag, is a compliment for some, for 8, but more likely 16 years. I would now ask, Not counting next year, how many years have some of you been wasting, working towards the goal of turning this Nation into a socialist nation? What a waste of time. Not talent, just time.

[HebronHawk]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

Only that it was a political speech and addressing your comments may have added more time to the speech than it called for.

From the reactions that the speech has produced, it appears to have done what it was intended to do.

Obama has been the poster child for lack of specific details about his "changes", so I guess none of the candidates are supplying you with enough details.

There are still 2 months left in the campaign and plenty of time for the candidates to get more specific.

I suspect you will get more details ultimately from McCain * Palin than the other group.

[HebronHawk]

are you joking?

palin is going to get annihilated in the debates

she sounds just fine telling people about her family and making general lies to fire up the base, but against Obama, let alone against Joe Biden, she's going to get killed.

they're going to have to send someone out with a broom to pick up all the little pieces of sarah palin that are left.

I think those will be Biden's pieces on the floor. Barracuda will win. :D

[slorch]

yeah, real life experience raping the environment and opposing minority rights as much as possible.

I oppose minority rights too.

I do support EQUAL protection under the law.

If she opposes extra rights for people, then that is one more reason to support her.

Her record as a conservationist and nature lover goes beyond hugging trees and eating granola. You don't have to be a militant environmentalist to do the right thing for our environment.

next...

[HUM398]

I oppose minority rights too.

I do support EQUAL protection under the law.

If she opposes extra rights for people, then that is one more reason to support her.

Her record as a conservationist and nature lover goes beyond hugging trees and eating granola. You don't have to be a militant environmentalist to do the right thing for our environment.

next...

Damn....

He Got served....

[Dawg Fan]

I oppose minority rights too.

I do support EQUAL protection under the law.

If she opposes extra rights for people, then that is one more reason to support her.

Her record as a conservationist and nature lover goes beyond hugging trees and eating granola. You don't have to be a militant environmentalist to do the right thing for our environment.

next...

and slorch owns phoenix once again:notworthy This is just like catching fish in a barrel for you

[Firebird]

FIFY, and I still don't like jell-o...

The amazing thing is that is I resort to quoting myself to shoot down your nonsense claims.

[Alurista]

The socialist and their gimmy followers are certainly in a panic mode now that the RNC is over. With very good reason. The lady and the old man grabbed a choke hold on the throat of the phoney tap dancing soap saleman from Ill. and his, blank eyed, business as usual croney selection that he chose as a VP and ripped them open. The liberial media is ready to jump ship and are wondering if Clinton should have been the pick.

It's over for the socialist, and that tag, is a compliment for some, for 8, but more likely 16 years. I would now ask, Not counting next year, how many years have some of you been wasting, working towards the goal of turning this Nation into a socialist nation? What a waste of time. Not talent, just time.


You right wing nuts are crazy (redunant?) if you believe that a 44 year old Tina Fey look-alike from Alaska has improved your chances to keep the White House.

A 72 year old war veteran, on his last lap, and a MILF that went to six different colleges in 6 years...sure. Palin...real life experience..running a state with a population similar to El Paso's?? !! :notworthy

[GoOwls]

You right wing nuts are crazy (redunant?) if you believe that a 44 year old Tina Fey look-alike from Alaska has improved your chances to keep the White House.

A 72 year old war veteran, on his last lap, and a MILF that went to six different colleges in 6 years...sure. Palin...real life experience..running a state with a population similar to El Paso's?? !! :notworthy

Be humble, or be humbled

You may want to change your sig.....you don't live by it....you mock it....;)

[slorch]

The amazing thing is that is I resort to quoting myself to shoot down your nonsense claims.

I quote> Bird claims contextual misinterpretation

I use connotal content> Bird claims words were added to quote

I call out Bird for being jell-o> Bird denies any wrongdoing

result> Slorch gets headache, board laughs at Bird's credibility

[Firebird]

I quote> Bird claims contextual misinterpretation

I use connotal content> Bird claims words were added to quote

I call out Bird for being jell-o> Bird denies any wrongdoing

result> Slorch gets headache, board laughs at Bird's credibility

Slorch quotes and either fails to quote entire post (leaving out key explanatory elements) or fails to take into account the post Bird's post was in response to> Bird calls out slorch on it

Slorch decides to make up a quote consisting entirely of words, phrases, and ideas Bird never used>Bird calls out slorch on it

Slorch decides that Bird is jell-o for insisting that he be quoted accurately, gets headache from being asked to read critically.

FIFY

[78 Spartan]

I vote for whoever makes college education free. I would much rather see a generation of students NOT graduate into 60,000 debt than universal health care... but that is just me...

Too bad neither political candidate wants to fulfill that goal.

Bummer that life is so hard a kid might actually have to WORK to go to college ---- or pay his own medical bills.

Most universities offer substantial financial assistance to qualified students with demonstrated financial need. But a portion of that is work/study, and a portion of that is loans that will be paid back with your higher earnings stream. If kids don't like it, there are community colleges that are way cheaper, and then there are great jobs working on offshore oil platforms that pay great money and don't require a college degree.

What the hell kind of world do we live in when we expect these things to be done for us? Good Lord, people, earn it yourself!!

[GoOwls]

Slorch quotes and either fails to quote entire post (leaving out key explanatory elements) or fails to take into account the post Bird's post was in response to> Bird calls out slorch on it

Slorch decides to make up a quote consisting entirely of words, phrases, and ideas Bird never used>Bird calls out slorch on it

Slorch decides that Bird is jell-o for insisting that he be quoted accurately, gets headache from being asked to read critically.

FIFY

Bird credibility = Jell-O Man :D

[the_phoenix612]

I oppose minority rights too.

I do support EQUAL protection under the law.

If she opposes extra rights for people, then that is one more reason to support her.

Her record as a conservationist and nature lover goes beyond hugging trees and eating granola. You don't have to be a militant environmentalist to do the right thing for our environment.

next...

she opposes gay rights.

record as a conservationist?
show me, or it doesnt count.

[DragonFan0316]

Her speech was spot on. I enjoyed getting to know her.

[Redhoss]

yeah, real life experience raping the environment and opposing minority rights as much as possible.

Can you explain exactly what she's done in that regard?

[HUM398]

she opposes gay rights.

record as a conservationist?
show me, or it doesnt count.

Look Select ALL, you got thrashed earlier.

accept the defeat and move along....We don't have time for an Encore

[the_phoenix612]

Look Select ALL, you got thrashed earlier.

accept the defeat and move along....We don't have time for an Encore

bulls:Censor:

if you cant back up your allegations, they dont count.

tough concept for people used to spouting one-liners and sound bites.

[the_phoenix612]

Can you explain exactly what she's done in that regard?

am i allowed to copy/paste?

* Opposed protections for salmon from mining contamination. (Aug 2008)
* Sue US government to stop listing polar bear as endangered. (Aug 2008)
* Convince the rest of the nation to open ANWR. (Jan 2007)
* Fish platform: "Resource First" philosophy. (Nov 2006)
* Rail provides critical link for business development. (Nov 2006)
* Supports "Roads to Resources": subsidized access to mines. (Oct 2006)
* Don't duplicate effort in monitoring cruise ship emissions. (Oct 2006)
* Don't amend AK constitution for rural subsistence fishing. (Oct 2006)
# Lift moratorium on offshore drilling. (Jul 2008)
# Convinced McCain to drill offshore; not yet on drilling ANWR. (Jul 2008)
# Unlock ANWR; we're ready, willing and able to contribute. (Jun 2008)
# Fully fund for the Petroleum Systems Integrity Office. (Feb 2008)
Global warming affects Alaska, but is not man-made. (Aug 2008)

from ontheissues.org
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Environment.htm

[slorch]

she opposes gay rights. What do they need that every other citizen doesn't?
record as a conservationist?
show me, or it doesnt count. You throw out your own accusation yet demand documentation of my defense?
You go first sir.


being gay isn't a minority status. people that are gay are entitled to the same protection under the law as any other citizen.

Nothing more, nothing less.

i applaud someone that would not endorse more laws that are redundant of the rights that already cover that situation.

less government... not more.

[slorch]

am i allowed to copy/paste?

* Opposed protections for salmon from mining contamination. (Aug 2008)
* Sue US government to stop listing polar bear as endangered. (Aug 2008)
* Convince the rest of the nation to open ANWR. (Jan 2007)
* Fish platform: "Resource First" philosophy. (Nov 2006)
* Rail provides critical link for business development. (Nov 2006)
* Supports "Roads to Resources": subsidized access to mines. (Oct 2006)
* Don't duplicate effort in monitoring cruise ship emissions. (Oct 2006)
* Don't amend AK constitution for rural subsistence fishing. (Oct 2006)
# Lift moratorium on offshore drilling. (Jul 2008)
# Convinced McCain to drill offshore; not yet on drilling ANWR. (Jul 2008)
# Unlock ANWR; we're ready, willing and able to contribute. (Jun 2008)
# Fully fund for the Petroleum Systems Integrity Office. (Feb 2008)
Global warming affects Alaska, but is not man-made. (Aug 2008)

from ontheissues.org
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Environment.htm

If you couldn't copy/paste, you'd be even more defenseless...:rolleyes:

On each of these accounts, I'd like to know why she voted the way she did. The recent Veterans' Education Bill is a perfect example of folks voting for or against something that appeared positive, yet held some dangerous provisions within the bill.

[HUM398]

bulls:Censor:

if you cant back up your allegations, they dont count.

tough concept for people used to spouting one-liners and sound bites.

My allegations? What allegations have i made? oh wait...that you are a fake, copy pasting, intellectual wanna be? Cause i can back that up.


how about you grow a set of cojones, and start coming up with your own thoughts and stop sounding like a broken record of Keith olberman.

as far as the subject at hand, i don't consider a personal lifestyle choice to be categorized as a minority group.

[pied]

If you couldn't copy/paste, you'd be even more defenseless...:rolleyes:

On each of these accounts, I'd like to know why she voted the way she did. The recent Veterans' Education Bill is a perfect example of folks voting for or against something that appeared positive, yet held some dangerous provisions within the bill.

huh...


But Obama wants to take everyone's guns away and take their money to give to Socialized medicine, right?

(not directed at you slorch)


I do think that is a very valid question by the way, slorch.

[Redhoss]

am i allowed to copy/paste?

* Opposed protections for salmon from mining contamination. (Aug 2008)
* Sue US government to stop listing polar bear as endangered. (Aug 2008)
* Convince the rest of the nation to open ANWR. (Jan 2007)
* Fish platform: "Resource First" philosophy. (Nov 2006)
* Rail provides critical link for business development. (Nov 2006)
* Supports "Roads to Resources": subsidized access to mines. (Oct 2006)
* Don't duplicate effort in monitoring cruise ship emissions. (Oct 2006)
* Don't amend AK constitution for rural subsistence fishing. (Oct 2006)
# Lift moratorium on offshore drilling. (Jul 2008)
# Convinced McCain to drill offshore; not yet on drilling ANWR. (Jul 2008)
# Unlock ANWR; we're ready, willing and able to contribute. (Jun 2008)
# Fully fund for the Petroleum Systems Integrity Office. (Feb 2008)
Global warming affects Alaska, but is not man-made. (Aug 2008)

from ontheissues.org
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Environment.htm


Sure paste if those are your disagreements.

I'm not real concerned about mining and salmon since we don't have that issue here to my knowledge. To me that's for Alaskans to decide. I have no idea about the Polar Bear's threat but we don't have them here in Texas either.

I'm with her on ANWR. It's McCain who has rejected that but most Americans are in favor of it. I totally support lifting the bans on offshore drilling. McCain has changed his viewpoint.
Our National Security is threatened now by our dependence on foreign energy. And we send billions to countries who do not like us now. I want those $ to stay here and provide American jobs.

What's up with monitoring cruise ship emissions? How would you vote and why?

You are aware that the warming has changed to cooling already? It's cyclic and has always happened regardless of man's affects.

[the_phoenix612]

My allegations? What allegations have i made? oh wait...that you are a fake, copy pasting, intellectual wanna be? Cause i can back that up.


how about you grow a set of cojones, and start coming up with your own thoughts and stop sounding like a broken record of Keith olberman.

as far as the subject at hand, i don't consider a personal lifestyle choice to be categorized as a minority group.

no.

you said she was a conservationist.

i want your references to that fact.

Personal lifestyle choice?
current science suggests that it is not a choice, but is decided by biological factors.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094541.htm
before you all bash about how fruit flies aren't human, scientists use fruit flies all the time in labs because their generation span is extremely short and they share 75% of expressed genes and 50% of protein sequences with humans.

and for the record i can't stand most of what keith olbermann says:cool:

[the_phoenix612]

Sure paste if those are your disagreements.

I'm not real concerned about mining and salmon since we don't have that issue here to my knowledge. To me that's for Alaskans to decide. I have no idea about the Polar Bear's threat but we don't have them here in Texas either.

I'm with her on ANWR. It's McCain who has rejected that but most Americans are in favor of it. I totally support lifting the bans on offshore drilling. McCain has changed his viewpoint.
Our National Security is threatened now by our dependence on foreign energy. And we send billions to countries who do not like us now. I want those $ to stay here and provide American jobs.

What's up with monitoring cruise ship emissions? How would you vote and why?

You are aware that the warming has changed to cooling already? It's cyclic and has always happened regardless of man's affects.

what i think about global warming is that it is a cyclic phenomenon exacerbated by human production of greenhouse gases.
I don't fully buy into the "We're all gonna die because you drive to work" side of the argument, but anyone that says our use of fossil fuels doesn't harm the environment has never seen a city from the sky.

the polar bears/salmon is just an Alaskan thing, yes, but that's all she had control over.

She displays a trend of ignoring any sort of conservationist philosophy, and generally acts (and legislates) with no regard for the environment.
that's one of my many concerns about Sarah Palin.

[HUM398]

no.

you said she was a conservationist.

i want your references to that fact.

Personal lifestyle choice?
current science suggests that it is not a choice, but is decided by biological factors.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094541.htm
before you all bash about how fruit flies aren't human, scientists use fruit flies all the time in labs because their generation span is extremely short and they share 75% of expressed genes and 50% of protein sequences with humans.

and for the record i can't stand most of what keith olbermann says:cool:

1. i never said typed the words conservationist.

2. The nature of Biology is that it isn't set in stone. how many laws of biology exist..... Especially dealing with Human genetics...

The nature of the science is based on a set of theoretical view points...what is theory Select All? you are a smart kid, i know you know. biological theories are interpretations of a collected data...Its not factual, because most times the gaps to solidify it are to far out of reach to set them in stone. its why Evolution is a theory, and not fact. INTERPRETATIONS... people get all pissy when people dicuss the bible because of peoples various interpretations...well Biology is much of the same...Genetics is a hot topic.

[HUM398]

what i think about global warming is that it is a cyclic phenomenon exacerbated by human production of greenhouse gases.
I don't fully buy into the "We're all gonna die because you drive to work" side of the argument, but anyone that says our use of fossil fuels doesn't harm the environment has never seen a city from the sky.

the polar bears/salmon is just an Alaskan thing, yes, but that's all she had control over.

She displays a trend of ignoring any sort of conservationist philosophy, and generally acts (and legislates) with no regard for the environment.
that's one of my many concerns about Sarah Palin.


:rolleyes:

She just doesn't share your views on the issues. This doesn't mean she ignores it.

Sometimes in life you have to make a decision...its either you, or them...You can't make a choice based on a biased theory regarding minings affect on the salmon.

Are they vital to the economy? Are they vital to the world? Is it 100% factual data you are giving me in regards to the effect it has on the environment?

[t-long20]

It was her first big speech, I could care less.


I would really like to see Palin vs. Biden duke it out in a debate. We all know who would win that one.

[HUM398]

It was her first big speech, I could care less.


I would really like to see Palin vs. Biden duke it out in a debate. We all know who would win that one.

Biden obviously...cause he is awesome one his speaking off the cuff.

:rolleyes:

"You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.... I'm not joking." --Sen. Joe Biden
AWESOME..... OBAMA AND BIDEN FOR PRESIDENT :rolleyes:

[Redhoss]

what i think about global warming is that it is a cyclic phenomenon exacerbated by human production of greenhouse gases.
I don't fully buy into the "We're all gonna die because you drive to work" side of the argument, but anyone that says our use of fossil fuels doesn't harm the environment has never seen a city from the sky.

the polar bears/salmon is just an Alaskan thing, yes, but that's all she had control over.
She displays a trend of ignoring any sort of conservationist philosophy, and generally acts (and legislates) with no regard for the environment.
that's one of my many concerns about Sarah Palin.

Wait a minute, doesn't Alaska have a State Congress who passes laws? I don't think she controls it all on her own.

[Redhoss]

It was her first big speech, I could care less.


I would really like to see Palin vs. Biden duke it out in a debate. We all know who would win that one.

It'll be happening before long so go ahead and drool. But don't get too excited before the dust settles. :D

[DragonFan0316]

Wait a minute, doesn't Alaska have a State Congress who passes laws? I don't think she controls it all on her own.


Anyone can advance their agenda when they are in control of it all. It is the real leaders that are able to influence what they have no control of. I think she rates high on that scale.

[pied]

So if the Alaskan Congress passes anti-enivronment acts, that's not on Palin.

If they pass other measures, she is doing well in advancing her agenda.

Is that where we are now?

[DragonFan0316]

So if the Alaskan Congress passes anti-enivronment acts, that's not on Palin.

If they pass other measures, she is doing well in advancing her agenda.

Is that where we are now?

Bottom line for me is this. She is a Repulican which means we have very similar political views. She is charasmatic and a woman. I really don't care about Alaska. She has probably made some bad decisions but I like the way she handled herself and the things she said.

Now your point is a good one. In a country where the system of weights and balances exist, by design congress, the chief executive and the judicial branch have to shoulder all of the accountability and praise.

[pied]

Bottom line for me is this. She is a Repulican which means we have very similar political views. She is charasmatic and a woman. I really don't care about Alaska. She has probably made some bad decisions but I like the way she handled herself and the things she said.

Now your point is a good one. In a country where the system of weights and balances exist, by design congress, the chief executive and the judicial branch have to shoulder all of the accountability and praise.

Makes sense and appears to fit in w/most.

The only thing I would ask, is to not claim that the election is about issues, and admit that it is really about whom we identify with.

[Firebird]

Makes sense and appears to fit in w/most.

The only thing I would ask, is to not claim that the election is about issues, and admit that it is really about whom we identify with.

For me, it is about teleprompters and which convention has the best music.

[DragonFan0316]

For me, it is about teleprompters and which convention has the best music.

I think we have all made up our minds. Can we vote on Monday and get this over with.:p

[yallerjacket]

I think we have all made up our minds. Can we vote on Monday and get this over with.:p

Some of us don't completely identify with either party and need a little more time to make a decision. :D

[mojotrain]

You right wing nuts are crazy (redunant?) if you believe that a 44 year old Tina Fey look-alike from Alaska has improved your chances to keep the White House.

A 72 year old war veteran, on his last lap, and a MILF that went to six different colleges in 6 years...sure. Palin...real life experience..running a state with a population similar to El Paso's?? !! :notworthy

It's over, not because of what I say, obama didn't have my vote before Palin.
It's over because obama has never run anything at all. biden is more of what obama said he wanted to change. biden was the smartest he said obama wasn't fit to run the country. did he lie?

McCain has a 92 year old mother that looks stronger than obama. McCain will last to that age also. We only care about 8 years and then we get the first female President ever for another 8. In all fairness obama and biden didn't sink the socalistic part alone. A lot of it can be put at the feet of NBC, ABC, CBC and CNN. Don't judge success by El Paso measures. It's a gimmy city like obama and biden want all citys to be.

[mojotrain]

am i allowed to copy/paste?

* Opposed protections for salmon from mining contamination. (Aug 2008)
* Sue US government to stop listing polar bear as endangered. (Aug 2008)
* Convince the rest of the nation to open ANWR. (Jan 2007)
* Fish platform: "Resource First" philosophy. (Nov 2006)
* Rail provides critical link for business development. (Nov 2006)
* Supports "Roads to Resources": subsidized access to mines. (Oct 2006)
* Don't duplicate effort in monitoring cruise ship emissions. (Oct 2006)
* Don't amend AK constitution for rural subsistence fishing. (Oct 2006)
# Lift moratorium on offshore drilling. (Jul 2008)
# Convinced McCain to drill offshore; not yet on drilling ANWR. (Jul 2008)
# Unlock ANWR; we're ready, willing and able to contribute. (Jun 2008)
# Fully fund for the Petroleum Systems Integrity Office. (Feb 2008)
Global warming affects Alaska, but is not man-made. (Aug 2008)

from ontheissues.org
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Environment.htm

Thanks skate key thats why I like her. Do you perfer Nestles Quick or Ovaltine? My grandkids can't stand Ovaltine. They think it taste like coffee. Thanks in advance for your reply.

[mojotrain]

It was her first big speech, I could care less.


I would really like to see Palin vs. Biden duke it out in a debate. We all know who would win that one.

Thats exactly why obama wishes he had picked Clinton.

[tayb]

am i allowed to copy/paste?

* Opposed protections for salmon from mining contamination. (Aug 2008)
* Sue US government to stop listing polar bear as endangered. (Aug 2008)
* Convince the rest of the nation to open ANWR. (Jan 2007)
* Fish platform: "Resource First" philosophy. (Nov 2006)
* Rail provides critical link for business development. (Nov 2006)
* Supports "Roads to Resources": subsidized access to mines. (Oct 2006)
* Don't duplicate effort in monitoring cruise ship emissions. (Oct 2006)
* Don't amend AK constitution for rural subsistence fishing. (Oct 2006)
# Lift moratorium on offshore drilling. (Jul 2008)
# Convinced McCain to drill offshore; not yet on drilling ANWR. (Jul 2008)
# Unlock ANWR; we're ready, willing and able to contribute. (Jun 2008)
# Fully fund for the Petroleum Systems Integrity Office. (Feb 2008)
Global warming affects Alaska, but is not man-made. (Aug 2008)

from ontheissues.org
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Environment.htm

Why, exactly, are you against drilling for oil on US soil? Do you enjoy personally funding the country of Dubai and their infinite spending of US dollars to build lavish structures and man-made islands?

[GoOwls]

For me, it is about teleprompters and which convention has the best music.

Bird, I'm surprised, as thorough as you usually are, that you missed the story about the teleprompters problems during Rudy and Sarah's speeches....apparently there was a major SNAFU with them and a good part of both of their speeches was pretty messed up on the teleprompter, especially during Sarah's.

Seems as though she also has a good memory and maybe it does come from the heart after all.......doesn't bode as well for Biden if she's really that good ...does it? ;)

[toonman]

My comments in red. To summarize:

1. John McCain is a man of great character who served his country admirably.

2. Sarah Palin comes from an ordinary background and has a lovely family that she loves very much. She also is ready to cut back on extravagent spending in her personal office and to work to improve our energy infrastructure in diverse ways, which she did as governor of Alaska. She had responsibilities as mayor of a small Alaska town, but she's not ready to tell us what they were or how they relate to the job of VP.

3. Neither of them think that you should vote for Obama. They want to do things differently, although you will have to check back with them for specifics, as they aren't ready to say now exactly how they will do things differently.


Am I missing anything?

Words are cheap and cost nothing. There is old saying "actions speak louder than words". We have just had 8 years of Republican government, why should these guys be any different and if they are different and people want something different why not just vote Democrat. So is this election going to be about which "change" we like better.

[Pearland 06]

Maybe I'm just being a guy, but I wouldn't mind seeing her for another 16 years...

[hollywood]

Words are cheap and cost nothing. There is old saying "actions speak louder than words". We have just had 8 years of Republican government, why should these guys be any different and if they are different and people want something different why not just vote Democrat. So is this election going to be about which "change" we like better.

Obama is a very fine speaker. I agree with you. Talk is cheap. The memo from the DNC is to make sure to connect McCain with Bush in every way. The problem is that we know that McCain and Bush are not exactly fishing buddies. I choose to believe that McCain/Palin offer a better choice than Obama/Biden or the past eight years. BUT, it is imperative that Democrats keep playing this card. It is about all they have. They certainly cannot play in the character arena. It has not been a strong suit for them.

In any event this is an historic election. I think there are clear choices to make. We live in interesting times.
Whoever wins better have their stuff together. I am going with character, experience and nads. YMMV.

[hollywood]

For me, it is about teleprompters and which convention has the best music.

Teleprompters did not help the rest of the presenters. She made the rest of the speakers look like hacks. She has a real quality. Lets give her that and move on. Lets see that Biden/Palin debate.

[mojotrain]

Words are cheap and cost nothing. There is old saying "actions speak louder than words". We have just had 8 years of Republican government, why should these guys be any different and if they are different and people want something different why not just vote Democrat. So is this election going to be about which "change" we like better.

We are running a democrate against obama.