The great drinking age debate

[tayb]

I posted this because there has been a "big" push recently to lower the drinking age to 18. There are even several psychologists who have come on board stating that lowering the drinking age would lead to less binge drinking.

Anyways, what side are you on?

[the_phoenix612]

I posted this because there has been a "big" push recently to lower the drinking age to 18. There are even several psychologists who have come on board stating that lowering the drinking age would lead to less binge drinking.

Anyways, what side are you on?

i firmly believe that taking the mystery, or the taboo, away, leads to lower rates of abuse.

18 seems like as good of an age as any.

old enough to vote, drive, be executed for murder, die for your country, utterly destroy your lungs by smoking, but not to drink alcohol?

[jtk1519]

I can only speak from my own experience. None of my friends or I are heavy drinkers at all, but the only time our drinking ever bordered on dangerous (drinking too much or doing things you shouldn't do while drinking) was before we turned 21. After that, the legality of drinking actually made us less likely to drink too much. We may be the exception and not the rule.

[tayb]

I am on the side of lowering it to 18 or changing the age you become an adult to 21. If a draft can be enacted and I can be thrown into combat, I can vote on who will run the country, smoke a cigar, or buy pornography I think I should be able to buy myself a drink as well.

I don't know about you guys but the lure of alcohol sure diminished as soon as I could waltz into H-E-B and buy whatever I wanted without having to stroll around looking for the right guy to pay off to buy it for me. I think the psychologists are right... you are likely to drink more often when you are of age but you drink exponentially less each time. When it was illegal you bought as much as you could when you could... and partied with it.

[yankee]

word.

[country club]

Change the drinking age to 18 and you must be 21 to obtain a permit to drive.
Hardship cases dealt with case by case. Probably a lot more bus riders.

[tayb]

Change the drinking age to 18 and you must be 21 to obtain a permit to drive.
Hardship cases dealt with case by case. Probably a lot more bus riders.

Huh? Make it take 5 years longer to get a drivers license? I hope you are being sarcastic.

[jakerz]

It's obvious that if you lower the drinking age there will be less binge drinking. Make the age 18 for alcohlol...


























...and cannabis. ;)

[jrock210]

I don't drink so it doesn't really effect me.
Lower it to 16 like Germany for all I care.

[ktCarl]

I can only speak from my own experience. None of my friends or I are heavy drinkers at all, but the only time our drinking ever bordered on dangerous (drinking too much or doing things you shouldn't do while drinking) was before we turned 21. After that, the legality of drinking actually made us less likely to drink too much. We may be the exception and not the rule.

I'm with you on this one. We had all these same arguements and debates when I was in High School. The big one was you can be drafted in the military and die in Viet Nam but you couldn't have a beer. Of course after a few years with the drinking age lowered the drunk driving accident and fatality rates went up.

[Bass]

Most kids I know under 21 would drink twice as much if it was suddenly legal. I'm sure it would go down over a good amount of time, but just imagine all the high school seniors and college freshmen that would think they are the biggest bad-a in the world because they can buy beer without the hassle.

I don't get people talking about drinking as if it's something they truly desire. Maybe it's because I've never drunk, but it doesn't make sense to me to dwell on the fact you're not allowed to do it.

[svhorns]

lets all get wasted and start the revolution...

whos coming with me????

WHos coming with me???

[BDB]

i don't care. im drinking either way.

[DragonWatcher]

I say this as a 21 year old but 18 should be the legal age for consumption of alcohol. If I am old enough to die in service to my country and deemed to have the mental capacity to kill another human being I should be of the maturity to have a beer. The U.S. goes about this in the wrong way. We should lower the drinking age and increase D.U.I. penalties, one ticket lose your license for 3-5 years. While I am more mature now than I was at 18 I do drink more now than I did at 18, my commitment to not drinking and driving however has not wavered.

[gtowndrumma]

i know from personal experience that when i was around 18 i was a borderline alcoholic.... It was extremely easy to obtain alcohol and that was all we had to do was go out and get as drunk as possible. Now after growing out of that its just not as fun for me. I go to parties all the time now without having to have a beer, and didnt drink at all between valentines day to the end of july this year. However, i know plenty of people that think that because they are in college it is time to drink non stop, and those are the people that make this law a very tough one to handle..... While you have people that are more responsible, you have the guys that just cant handle their alcohol and they are the reason that MADD will not drop their stance on this issue

[slorch]

I always felt it was very hypocritical for me to be serving as an 18-19 year old Marine, able to uphold one of the biggest responsibilities an adult can have and not be able to drink after I got off duty. Sure, there were enlisted clubs where we could drink "Beer only" and we could go to the bowling alley on base and get the dollar tokens and drink while we were there, but I always struggled with the double standard.

What i struggle more with is the way alcohol in general is treated like some kind of demonic substance in our society while Budweiser and Miller make a killing from subsidizing our sports marketing( aimed at guess who?) and other media. They're going to fish where the fish are, and young adults drink, whether it's legal or not. The law just makes it more manageable for law enforcement once they catch an offender. In the meantime, alcoholic advertisements berate the viewing public with messages of good times and being sophisticated/ mature by drinking, but we're not targeting minors...

On social issues like this, I tend to feel very strongly about personal responsibility, with very real penalties for abusing that responsibility. While the drinking age laws today may not recognize the other responsibilities 18-20 year olds incur as adults, the other drinking laws are a freaking joke. There are not real penalties for drinking and driving. Do you think a fine is going to make people stop? If you are pulled over and have alcohol on your breath, I think you should be charged with attempted manslaughter and have your DL revoked PERMANENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drinking and driving is by far the biggest risk people take on. I heard them on the radio saying the more experienced drivers were safer after drinking. I cannot believe someone would think that. We are not serious about stopping drinking and driving.

That, IMO, is a much bigger problem than when people can legally buy/ possess alcohol.

BTW, our kids know they can have a beer with me any time, but only with me until they are of legal age. They have never taken me up on it, but when they want one, I don't have a problem with ME being the one that teaches them how to drink responsibly instead of their buddies. I know I always say it about the schools, but this case also falls back on the parents. we have a bunch of cowards that are scared to teach their kids how to live properly. Then when the kids make a mistake, well it's Junior's fault. I say, "hell no, it isn't, go look in the mirror Mom and Dad!"

[HebronHawk]

i firmly believe that taking the mystery, or the taboo, away, leads to lower rates of abuse.

18 seems like as good of an age as any.

old enough to vote, drive, be executed for murder, die for your country, utterly destroy your lungs by smoking, but not to drink alcohol?

Actually you could be charged for a capital crime as young as 14, I believe.

[HebronHawk]

It's obvious that if you lower the drinking age there will be less binge drinking. Make the age 18 for alcohlol...

...and cannabis. ;)

Binge drinking is more about facing peer pressure than it is about age.

Some 40 year olds still can't face peer pressure successfully.

[slorch]

Binge drinking is more about facing peer pressure than it is about age.

Some 40 year olds still can't face peer pressure successfully.

yup. I agree. see it all the time at our multiday meetings.

[Miss Kitty]

When I turned 18, that was the legal drinking age. Didn't make much difference I don't think. If I wanted a beer, I just had to ask my parents for one. I was raised that way, so sneeking around in high school was never an issue and had no appeal for me. And then becoming legal was more about being able to vote than anything else.

[Favpack]

I've found few, if ANY, 18 year olds responsible enough to drink, to know their limits, to really know not to drink and drive, etc.

Go look up the death rate for deaths for teens from drunk driving since 1984. The numbers have declined sharply. The current drinking age saves lives - I'm for it.

If' you really want your 19 year old to drink - go buy it for them and have them drink it in your house. That's legal by the way - most don't know that.

[KT2000]

I think they should keep the limit at 21. I get what some of you are saying about being able to vote, serve in the military and buy smokes. However, alcohol must be separated from tobacco in my opinion because it is capable of altering the senses to the point of distorting reality. There are people out there reponsble and controlled enough to never get to that point, but the mere possibility requies tougher regulations in my opinion.

Alcohol is potentially as dangerous as an illegal narcotic when abused. You might say, "well...so is white out and rubber cement", but I daresay alcohol abused at a slightly higher level.

I think by lowering the legal age, you'd be making something that's already very easy to get illegally even easier.

[tayb]

I've found few, if ANY, 18 year olds responsible enough to drink, to know their limits, to really know not to drink and drive, etc.

Go look up the death rate for deaths for teens from drunk driving since 1984. The numbers have declined sharply. The current drinking age saves lives - I'm for it.

If' you really want your 19 year old to drink - go buy it for them and have them drink it in your house. That's legal by the way - most don't know that.

There is a much larger number of drunk driving cases of people 21 and over despite the fact that there are statistical studies showing they don't get nearly as drunk when they drink. I guess the younger kids really ARE more responsible.

Hey if you don't want the drinking age to be 18 because you don't think young men and women are responsible enough that is cool. Just raise everything else to meet the age of 21. I can't get over the ridiculous and stupid double standard. If am deemed mature enough to kill another man in combat or decide who shall lead this country I am mature enough to have a beer. If you don't think I am mature enough to have a beer I don't see how I could be mature enough to hold that automatic rifle and shoot the bad guys. Put everything at 21 or everything at 18 and I don't have a problem at all but please don't try to force me into military service but tell me I can't drink on leave. That is RIDICULOUS.

[Miss Kitty]

Here is a proposed solution: Make it, if you join the military you have a special pass to drink at 18. Otherwise, you wait until you are 21. That would solve the need for a draft and the drinking debate regarding the double standard. :)

[chhspantherfan]

Here is a proposed solution: Make it, if you join the military you have a special pass to drink at 18. Otherwise, you wait until you are 21. That would solve the need for a draft and the drinking debate regarding the double standard. :)

Miss Kitty for President !!

[RedRage00]

I think they should keep the limit at 21. I get what some of you are saying about being able to vote, serve in the military and buy smokes. However, alcohol must be separated from tobacco in my opinion because it is capable of altering the senses to the point of distorting reality. There are people out there reponsble and controlled enough to never get to that point, but the mere possibility requies tougher regulations in my opinion.

Alcohol is potentially as dangerous as an illegal narcotic when abused. You might say, "well...so is white out and rubber cement", but I daresay alcohol abused at a slightly higher level.

I think by lowering the legal age, you'd be making something that's already very easy to get illegally even easier.

And so is coming back from Iraq....for some soldiers.

[tayb]

Here is a proposed solution: Make it, if you join the military you have a special pass to drink at 18. Otherwise, you wait until you are 21. That would solve the need for a draft and the drinking debate regarding the double standard. :)

If you are going to go that route I would propose changing all the laws to 21 and you get a special pass from being in the military. That might even help recruiting :eek: :D.

[KT2000]

There is a much larger number of drunk driving cases of people 21 and over despite the fact that there are statistical studies showing they don't get nearly as drunk when they drink. I guess the younger kids really ARE more responsible.

I would imagine that's because there are a heck of a lot more 21-and-over drivers on the road than 16-20 year olds. There are irresponsible people in every age bracket, but I think we should at least make an effort to keep it out of the hands of our young people. If the age was lowered to 18, I'd be more concerned about the 12-17 year olds than I already am. Most kids that young have no concept of responsiblity. There is a much bigger picture to be considered in my opinion.

[RedRage00]

It doesn't matter what age is legal because they are still going to do it.

[tayb]

I would imagine that's because there are a heck of a lot more 21-and-over drivers on the road than 16-20 year olds. There are irresponsible people in every age bracket, but I think we should at least make an effort to keep it out of the hands of our young people. If the age was lowered to 18, I'd be more concerned about the 12-17 year olds than I already am. Most kids that young have no concept of responsiblity. There is a much bigger picture to be considered in my opinion.

But my point was that there are also studies that show that 18 year olds get more heavily drunk when they do actually drink... they just don't choose to drive as often.

I could compromise and put the age at 19 so it is out of reach for high school kids but that is about as far as I could go. Just can't swallow the double standard.

[KT2000]

And so is coming back from Iraq....for some soldiers.

When battle-weary soldiers become a primary source of highway fatalities across the country, get back with me.

[RedRage00]

When battle-weary soldiers become a primary source of highway fatalities across the country, get back with me.

Oh, I've met them....and ironically, they use alcohol to try and hide from reality. But I don't think they break out highway fatalities by profession.

ElPrez said it the best....he's still going to do it no matter what the age is.

You can vote when you're 18, you can go to war and die when you're 18...why not a drink? They will do it anyway.

[country club]

Did I miss something. The draft hasn't been used since the 70's. Yes you must register, but to my knowledge, no one has been forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY for over 30 years. I am amazed how young men today want to fight for THEIR PRIVLEGES, but complain about fighting for OUR FREEDOMS. In life, some things are worth waiting for. Why is it kids are in such a hurry (To pickle their livers, etc...) and adults want to slow down. Sit back and enjoy the ride. No Big !

[KT2000]

But my point was that there are also studies that show that 18 year olds get more heavily drunk when they do actually drink... they just don't choose to drive as often.

I still don't think the stats you sighted prove the younger ones are more responsible. All it proves is that they have less access to vehicles, which is obviously no surprise given they are school age and have no real money for themselves yet unless momma and daddy are taking the $ hit.

[KT2000]

You can vote when you're 18, you can go to war and die when you're 18...why not a drink? They will do it anyway.

You win. Let's just eliminate rules all together because people will break them anyway.

[Miss Kitty]

But my point was that there are also studies that show that 18 year olds get more heavily drunk when they do actually drink... they just don't choose to drive as often.

I could compromise and put the age at 19 so it is out of reach for high school kids but that is about as far as I could go. Just can't swallow the double standard.

I do see your points. But, please keep in mind, the legal drinking age was once 18 and they changed it to 21 for a reason. So it is not like they don't have studies and data on the pros and cons of both ages.

Just take a moment and think about that double standard. The things you mentioned, ability to die for your country, kill for your country, choose our country's leader. Those are all things for which you should have a clear mind and you should be honored to have the privilidge to do those things and to have the respect of the country that believes you could execute those responsibilities at the age of 18.

For me, if I were your age, it would be more about someone tellng me I couldn't as opposed to the actual drinking itself. But that is life and as a woman, I can tell you, the world is full of double standards. What you must do is find the honor in those things in which you can do and execute those things in the most educated and responsible way you can.

Not being able to drink until you are 21 will not be the demise of this country. But not having a strong military, and people who exercise their right to vote and keep this country a democracy could be it's demise.

[RedRage00]

Most kids leave home/go to college at 18yrs old.

You can't control them forever. You just have to be a good parent and teach them personal responsibility. I agree with Slorch.

I honestly can say I never drank until I was 21. Yes, I was a nerd. :cool:

[chhspantherfan]

Did I miss something. The draft hasn't been used since the 70's. Yes you must register, but to my knowledge, no one has been forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY for over 30 years. I am amazed how young men today want to fight for THEIR PRIVLEGES, but complain about fighting for OUR FREEDOMS. In life, some things are worth waiting for. Why is it kids are in such a hurry (To pickle their livers, etc...) and adults want to slow down. Sit back and enjoy the ride. No Big !

No truer words could be spoken or typed

[tayb]

Did I miss something. The draft hasn't been used since the 70's. Yes you must register, but to my knowledge, no one has been forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY for over 30 years. I am amazed how young men today want to fight for THEIR PRIVLEGES, but complain about fighting for OUR FREEDOMS. In life, some things are worth waiting for. Why is it kids are in such a hurry (To pickle their livers, etc...) and adults want to slow down. Sit back and enjoy the ride. No Big !

Well... if you noticed my wording I wrote "If a draft CAN be enacted";)

As far as fighting for freedoms... take a look around this board. I have gotten into several heated arguments with a lot of posters who could care less about freedoms as long as they safe.

I still don't think the stats you sighted prove the younger ones are more responsible. All it proves is that they have less access to vehicles, which is obviously no surprise given they are school age and have no real money for themselves yet unless momma and daddy are taking the $ hit.

It was a psychologist from UT who stated that your mindset changes and once alcohol becomes legal and readily available your mindset changes and you start to drink more often but a lot less per occasion. That could be attributed to the kids maturing and just not wanting to drink as much or the "lure" of alcohol at a younger age goes away when it isn't illegal. I do agree with you that if you lowered it to 18 we would be having this debate about 16-17 year old kids but I think if it was 19 most of that would be gone. There aren't any 19 year old kids in high school, they are all freshman or sophomores in college.

[Miss Kitty]

Did I miss something. The draft hasn't been used since the 70's. Yes you must register, but to my knowledge, no one has been forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY for over 30 years. I am amazed how young men today want to fight for THEIR PRIVLEGES, but complain about fighting for OUR FREEDOMS. In life, some things are worth waiting for. Why is it kids are in such a hurry (To pickle their livers, etc...) and adults want to slow down. Sit back and enjoy the ride. No Big !

:notworthy:notworthy

[RedRage00]

You win. Let's just eliminate rules all together because people will break them anyway.

Ok, now you're taking it too far. I did not say that.

But 18 is considered an adult. You graduate from high school, you leave home or go to college or the military. You can be 18 (17 in TX) and have a relationship with a 40yr old if you want to. You can go out and start your own life, but you can't have a beer?

If you want 21 to be the legal age then make 21 the age to vote, join the military,etc.

[chhspantherfan]

............What you must do is find the honor in those things in which you can do and execute those things in the most educated and responsible way you can..............



:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[KT2000]

It was a psychologist from UT who stated that your mindset changes and once alcohol becomes legal and readily available your mindset changes and you start to drink more often but a lot less per occasion. That could be attributed to the kids maturing and just not wanting to drink as much or the "lure" of alcohol at a younger age goes away when it isn't illegal. I do agree with you that if you lowered it to 18 we would be having this debate about 16-17 year old kids but I think if it was 19 most of that would be gone. There aren't any 19 year old kids in high school, they are all freshman or sophomores in college.

I can definitely understand the logic that legality eliminates some of the previous "lure of the forbidden", but I would say there are several other factors involved as well. I think a considerable amount of growing up takes place between the age of 18 and 21 because many kids leave home for the first time, and go off to gain their own life experiences. I would imagine most people tire of the "let's get plastered" mindset pretty quick after the first couple hangovers. I've heard many stories about kids going off to college and flipping out on arrival because they have access to things they never did before, or they no longer had to worry about being caught. Kids who were great students in high school ended up flunking themselves out of college because they couldn't contain themselves.

Do you think parents or their children would feel secure of they decided to line our school halls with automatic weapons? Do you think legalizing the possession of such weapons would make the schools (and society for that matter) a safer place to be? That's an extreme comparison; however, I believe logic stating that legalization/proliferation of something will make it less appealing (especially to those who would abuse it) has some definite holes.

[KT2000]

Ok, now you're taking it too far. I did not say that.

The implication is certainly there when using "they'll just do it anyway" logic. If that is the case, then again I ask why have rules at all? This can be applied across multiple levels of society in multiple forms. If that is indeed part of the logic behind the legal drinking age debate, then why stop there?

[CKE]

I drank way more before I was 21 and was always in a bar at least 3 times a week. I think I have been in a bar about 4 times since I turned 21 on April 25th

[chhspantherfan]

I drank way more before I was 21 and was always in a bar at least 3 times a week. I think I have been in a bar about 4 times since I turned 21 on April 25th

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtm66Z3lebc

[DragonWatcher]

For me I always drank before I was 21 because in my mind I had an absolute right to. And I really don't buy that raising the age to 21 is the sole cause for lowering the amount of dui deaths because Canada has seen the same drop without raising the age from 18. I just don't understand how people can be fine with removing someone else's right in the name of safety. Increase penalties fivefold, but just because there's an idiot at 18 doesn't mean I was.