Tiebreakers: Negative Points Do Make A Difference - Ask Grapevine

[DR Raider]

As other threads have explained, the 2nd tiebreaker for 5-5A was initially thought to use only positive points (i.e., Team A that wins by 7 gets 7 positive points, but, losing Team B does not receive a negative 7 points). In the last few days before this weekend's final district games, the interpretation/explanation changed and negative points were included (e.g., Team A that wins by 7 points gets 7 positive points, AND, Team B that loses receives -7 points).

The use of negative points dramatically changed the 5-5A playoff scenarios. As such, there was a huge impact on the state playoffs in general.

Using only positive points, Grapevine made the playoffs if it beat Colleyville Heritage, AND, Keller Fossil Ridge beat Denton Ryan by 6 or less. Both of these events occurred, and, therefore, Grapevine would have made the playoffs under the positive point system.

However, when negative points were added to the calculation, Grapevine could not make the playoffs UNLESS KFR lost to DR. Because KFR beat DR, then KFR was in and Grapevine was out.

The impact on the state playoffs is obvious - had only positive points been used, Grapevine would be in as a 5-5A D2 rep AND SLC would have gone to D1. As it is, KFR goes to D1 and SLC goes to D2 as the #1 seed.

In addition to Grapevine, I suspect a few programs - all in D2 - really wish only positive points had been used for the 5-5A tiebreaker.

[PantherStang84]

I suspect a few programs - all in D2 - really wish only positive points had been used for the 5-5A tiebreaker.

That may be true for cowards. I for one am glad SLC is in DII. The north bracket would not be the same without them.

[Red Raiders]

Man I am so confuse about the points and how they work for the playoffs but I know the enrollements involved in it too.

[The Lone Ranger]

Man I am so confuse about the points and how they work for the playoffs but I know the enrollements involved in it too.

The current Texas HS playoff format (it will change slightly in 2006) works like this:

At the end of the season, the top 3 teams in each district (based ONLY on district games, not on non-district games) make the playoffs.

The points only come into play if there is a 3-or-more way tie and they need to break it to determine playoff qualification and seeding. Two-way ties are broken by the head-to-head result.

Then, of the three playoff teams in each district, the largest enrollment is the Division I representative, and the other two are Division II.

For Example, 10-5A:

Berkner 7-0
Lake Highlands 6-1
Creekview 5-2
Pearce 4-3
Jesuit 3-4
Newman Smith 2-5
Richardson 1-6
RL Turner 0-7

So, the top 3 teams make the playoffs. In 10-5A, that's Berkner, LH, and Creekview. Then, the school with the largest enrollment plays in the Division I bracket (Berkner in this case), and plays the 9-5A rep (Skyline). The highest placed team of the other two (LH) is the W10 seed and plays the R9 seed (WT White). The other team (Creekview) is the R10 seed and plays the W9 seed (Carter) in bi-district.

[Red Raiders]

The current Texas HS playoff format (it will change slightly in 2006) works like this:

At the end of the season, the top 3 teams in each district (based ONLY on district games, not on non-district games) make the playoffs.

The points only come into play if there is a 3-or-more way tie and they need to break it to determine playoff qualification and seeding. Two-way ties are broken by the head-to-head result.

Then, of the three playoff teams in each district, the largest enrollment is the Division I representative, and the other two are Division II.

For Example, 10-5A:

Berkner 7-0
Lake Highlands 6-1
Creekview 5-2
Pearce 4-3
Jesuit 3-4
Newman Smith 2-5
Richardson 1-6
RL Turner 0-7

So, the top 3 teams make the playoffs. In 10-5A, that's Berkner, LH, and Creekview. Then, the school with the largest enrollment plays in the Division I bracket (Berkner in this case), and plays the 9-5A rep (Skyline). The highest placed team of the other two (LH) is the W10 seed and plays the R9 seed (WT White). The other team (Creekview) is the R10 seed and plays the W9 seed (Carter) in bi-district.

Hey, I gotcha! Thank you!!

[baylordad]

Man I am so confuse about the points and how they work for the playoffs but I know the enrollements involved in it too.
DENTON RYAN = +14 POINTS FROM WIN OVER GRAPEVINE
-3 POINTS FROM LOSS TO FRIDGE
+11 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE = -7 POINTS FROM LOSS TO GRAPEVINE
+3 POINTS FROM WIN OVER RYAN
-4 TOTAL POINTS

GRAPEVINE + -14 POINTS FROM LOSS TO RYAN
+7 POINT FROM WIN OVER HERITAGE
-7 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE IS IN!!

[Red Raiders]

DENTON RYAN = +14 POINTS FROM WIN OVER GRAPEVINE
-3 POINTS FROM LOSS TO FRIDGE
+11 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE = -7 POINTS FROM LOSS TO GRAPEVINE
+3 POINTS FROM WIN OVER RYAN
-4 TOTAL POINTS

GRAPEVINE + -14 POINTS FROM LOSS TO RYAN
+7 POINT FROM WIN OVER HERITAGE
-7 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE IS IN!!

Oh oh oh, I see what your saying now, Points do matter.

[The Lone Ranger]

The way the points tie-breaker works (at least in District 5-5A):

There was a 3-way tie:

Carroll 7-0
Ryan 5-2
Fossil Ridge 5-2
Grapevine 5-2
Heritage 3-4
Haltom 2-5
Keller 1-6
Richland 0-7

So they needed to get the best two out of the three who tied.

They take the points difference in the games played between the schools, with a cap of 14.

The three games in question:
Ryan 41, Grapevine 25
Grapevine 45, Ridge 38
Ridge 31, Ryan 28

So for the Ryan vs Grapevine game, Ryan gets +14 (because of the cap, they can't get 16) and Vine gets -14.

For the Vine-Ridge game, GV gets +7 (for a total of -7) and Ridge gets -7.

For the Ridge-Ryan game, Ridge gets +3 (for a total of -4), and Ryan gets -3 (for a total of +11).

So, Ryan is the 2nd placed team in the district, with +11, Ridge is 3rd, with -4, and Grapevine is 4th, with -7. So Grapevine misses the playoffs.

Now, for the division placement...

Ridge is the largest of the 3 playoff schools, so they go DI and play Trinity. Carroll is the W5 seed and plays Mac. Ryan is the R5 seed and plays SGP.

Had Grapevine and Ryan made the playoffs, then Carroll would have been the largest playoff school and would have played in DI against Trinity.

EDIT: I was typing this just as the other post was posted, so sorry for the double information. Hopefully this elaborates a little.

[The Lone Ranger]

DENTON RYAN = +14 POINTS FROM WIN OVER GRAPEVINE
-3 POINTS FROM LOSS TO FRIDGE
+11 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE = -7 POINTS FROM LOSS TO GRAPEVINE
+3 POINTS FROM WIN OVER RYAN
-4 TOTAL POINTS

GRAPEVINE + -14 POINTS FROM LOSS TO RYAN
+7 POINT FROM WIN OVER HERITAGE
-7 TOTAL POINTS

FOSSIL RIDGE IS IN!!

The win over Heritage didn't affect the points for GV. It was their 7 point win over Fridge.

[baylordad]

You are correct!! Sorry about that. Thanks

[sendero]

I'm not sure I understand the ET, SGP, & Imac case though. Why would you rank for seeding when you could use head-to-head result?

[BigFoot]

I'm not sure I understand the ET, SGP, & Imac case though. Why would you rank for seeding when you could use head-to-head result?

They had to use the three team figures for seeding because of the tie no one beat the other two....ET could have scored another TD instead of taking a knee if points were an issue for them. They were going big school no matter what....
ET +7 over MAC -7 TO SGP = 0
MAC + 3 over SGP -7 to ET = -4
SGP +7 over ET - 3 to MAC = =4
that is the way they had to figure it