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SLCFan
08-14-2008, 08:58 AM
I found it this morning... it's 3 parts:

http://www.prepticket.com/video/market/dfw_tx/id/823292:Video:59519

d-train
08-14-2008, 09:24 AM
Saw them beat Mojo at Memorial from a box on a friends recruiting visit. They were not undefeated, and didn't break any records. 1985 Jack Yates, 16-0, crushed Mojo 37-0, only crossed midfield once, gave up 77 points, scored state 5A scoring record and played a killer schedule and were balanced. They played everyone, best team in 5A and best ever!

SLC93
08-14-2008, 11:28 AM
I'm a sucker for this. Everytime someone brings them up, I bite. 88 Carter was a very good team, nothing more, nothing less. The are the most over rated of all the teams that get mention in the best ever category, however. They had the best talent in the state, possibly the nation, that season. Despite that the points for/points against is rather unimpressive. Their offense was not dominant & they failed to win all of their games. Additionally, they squeeked by several weeks in a row during their playoff run. That includes a game that many felt was habded to them due to some seriously questionable calls. I think this team gets a bad rap due to the off field things that happened after the season & the grade scandal during it. I leave that stuff out in my eval. There were alot of great kids on that squad. Jesse Armstead remains one of my alltime favorites, both as a player & a person. History has inflated this squad entirely too much. That's directly related to the lack of annual contenders produced by the DISD. This team is all they've had for the better part of the last several decades.

SLC93
08-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Saw them beat Mojo at Memorial from a box on a friends recruiting visit. They were not undefeated, and didn't break any records. 1985 Jack Yates, 16-0, crushed Mojo 37-0, only crossed midfield once, gave up 77 points, scored state 5A scoring record and played a killer schedule and were balanced. They played everyone, best team in 5A and best ever!

1985 Yates would have absolutely destroyed 1988 Carter. It may have been as ugly as what they did to Permian that year. Yates was special. Carter was very good. There's a huge difference.

Texasfrog
08-14-2008, 11:36 AM
1985 Yates would have absolutely destroyed 1988 Carter. It may have been as ugly as what they did to Permian that year. Yates was special. Carter was very good. There's a huge difference.

Ya, I wish I could see a mythical matchup of the 1988 Yates vs 2003 North Shore..:D

jrock89
08-14-2008, 11:42 AM
I'm a sucker for this. Everytime someone brings them up, I bite. 88 Carter was a very good team, nothing more, nothing less. The are the most over rated of all the teams that get mention in the best ever category, however. They had the best talent in the state, possibly the nation, that season. Despite that the points for/points against is rather unimpressive. Their offense was not dominant & they failed to win all of their games. Additionally, they squeeked by several weeks in a row during their playoff run. That includes a game that many felt was habded to them due to some seriously questionable calls. I think this team gets a bad rap due to the off field things that happened after the season & the grade scandal during it. I leave that stuff out in my eval. There were alot of great kids on that squad. Jesse Armstead remains one of my alltime favorites, both as a player & a person. History has inflated this squad entirely too much. That's directly related to the lack of annual contenders produced by the DISD. This team is all they've had for the better part of the last several decades.

Most talent ever. Maybe not the best TEAM ever. When they were disiplined and didn't make mistakes, they were unbeatable. They were proned to mental mistakes, and that nearly cost them several games. They had a number of turnovers against both Marshall and Permian (both great teams that year) and still won.

I'm pretty sure they set a national record that still stands for number of signed college scholarships, both total and D1 scholarships. Several players off that team made significant impact in college and several also played in the NFL. They probably would have had more college and NFL stars had several of them not gone to prison for armed robbery.

mojoguy
08-14-2008, 01:24 PM
They were very good, and Armstead is still one of the best, if not the best, linebackers I've ever seen at that level when I go back and watch film of him. The guy just didn't make many mistakes. Their whole team was talented. I just have a hard time saying they're among the elite of all time in Texas, because that Permian squad gave them all they wanted in the semis, and it took some highly controversial events on the field that day to win the game. However, they did clearly win. It was impressive, but I really feel like there have been four or five Permian teams since 1988 that were better than that one, and more than that before 1988 that were better. It's impossible to really say, but I know that 1985 Yates would have dismantled them, and I feel like there have been several other teams that I have seen in my life and on film that would have beaten them. It's still a shame that things turned out the way they did for those Carter boys though. They were EXTREMELY talented.

mojotrain
08-14-2008, 01:40 PM
I agree with SLC93 but it's just IMO. I saw Permian lose to both. I can however add to the confusion.

The 85 Permian team had only a 7-7 tie with Abilene as a blimish. Otherwise they had thrown 5 shutouts during the season two of which were playoff games. They allowed only 7 points in 7 other games and two of those were in the playoffs.
In the 1985 playoffs

They beat EP Austin 33-0
Denton 41-0
Irving Mac. 27-7
Cy Fair 10-7
Then the blistering by Yates.

This was a excellent Permian team.

The yates game was the last game for John Wilkins to coach Permian.

The 1988 team lost two 1 point games prior to the playoffs. One to Marshall and the other to Midland Lee. They threw three shutouts during the year. In the playoffs they beat

EP Andress 41-13
Irving Nimitz 48-7
Arlington Lamar 21-7

In the game against Carter, a game they were not sure Carter would even be the opposition. Permian was in control of the board late in the game and had Carter held 3rd and something like 19 yards needed on the Carter end of the field. The Carter QB threw a pass to some where on Permian side of mid field. The ball hit the turf in front of the reciever and bounced about 4 feet and into the recievers hands. The Ref who had a perfect view of the play signaled a complete pass. They scored a few plays later and won. Carter 14, Permian 9.
I don't know how good Carter was, but they should not have been playing Judson in the final game. Not because of off field problems but because they were most certainly a beatable team and beatable by a team that had lost two earlier games.

Permians 88 team was a very good team but IMO not as good as 85.

On the other hand Gary Gaines the Permian coach has said that Carter 88 was the best He had seen.:) So let the debate go on.

I vote Jack Yates 85.

grasshopper
08-14-2008, 05:05 PM
i thought the 88 carter team was famous for a bunch of the football players getting arrested for a series of armed robberies, very organized ring, a player would get a job at a fastfood place ect and unlock the back door so his friends could get in to rob the place, several had free rides to play fb in college...............brilliant

onevision
08-14-2008, 05:09 PM
The 85 Yates lions could beat any team in the history of the state of texas. I was just a pup at the time but my dad and uncle tell me about those guys destroying Permian at texas stadium. They ran FAST and hit HARD.
I feel this way about carter in 88. The same way I feel about any team who gets stripped of a title in the court room. If u didnt beat them on the field, oh well that means they are that damn good. They beat Pesh, marshall, permian, and judson in those playoffs. They got the job done. SLC hast dominated every game. ET hasnt dominated every game, and so on. So its not about how much u win by, but did u get the win. And carter 88 got the wins. Now Im not excusing the bad things cause thats the shame. after that they went to the state semi-finals 3 times in 5 years.

Mean DT
08-14-2008, 05:25 PM
The 85 Yates lions could beat any team in the history of the state of texas. I was just a pup at the time but my dad and uncle tell me about those guys destroying Permian at texas stadium. They ran FAST and hit HARD.
I feel this way about carter in 88. The same way I feel about any team who gets stripped of a title in the court room. If u didnt beat them on the field, oh well that means they are that damn good. They beat Pesh, marshall, permian, and judson in those playoffs. They got the job done. SLC hast dominated every game. ET hasnt dominated every game, and so on. So its not about how much u win by, but did u get the win. And carter 88 got the wins. Now Im not excusing the bad things cause thats the shame. after that they went to the state semi-finals 3 times in 5 years.
Heard the 88 Carter team had alot of 20 year old seniors playing?

WOS87
08-14-2008, 06:57 PM
The 85 Yates lions could beat any team in the history of the state of texas.


WO-S had Yates 6-6 well in to the 4th Quarter with a 4-1 lead in penetrations in the regional semifinals.... Other than district rival Houston Jones, we came the closest to beating them, losing 6-19.

Despite that close call with the smallest 5A school in the state (WO-S fell to 4A in '86), Yates '85 wins over Carter '88 no question. Carter didn't even go in to the playoffs that year as the district champ, Duncanville did.

Judging from the vast difference in the way the two games against Yates went, I would have picked WO-S '85 over Permian '85

http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/wos/playoffs/yates85a.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/wos/playoffs/yates85b.gif

nevaplayedk9
08-14-2008, 07:09 PM
i remember D.W. Rutledge did not want to accept the trophy cause carter was the better team that won on the field......i wish the school district thought the same way.

The Great Evaluator
08-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Heard the 88 Carter team had alot of 20 year old seniors playing?

The same could be said about the 85 Yates team. I think Carter's defense is one of the top 5 in the last 30 years. Yates was a better but not by a whole lot. If you look at how they impacted the college and NFL scene, Carter's was better.

Jessie Armstead was a stud at Miami and above average in the NFL. Le'Shai Maston was good at Baylor and a little below average in the Pros. Nice career but not a huge impact.

They would both tell you that Derric Evans (one of the kids that went to prison) was the best of the bunch. Clifton Abraham was a junior who later starred at FSU and had a decent career in the NFL.

Yates noteable players were Melvin Foster who was a disappointment at Iowa and James Goode who had a respectable career at OU. Neither saw any action in the pros.

The difference in these teams was the offenses. Yates had Johnny Bailey who starred at Texas A&I and had a very good career with the Phoenix Cardinals.

Sooooo - depends on how you define who was better. IMHO, Yates was better as a team, slightly better at the high school level as a defense while Carter had more talented individuals who had better college and pro careers.

I saw them both in person.

Texasfrog
08-14-2008, 11:16 PM
The same could be said about the 85 Yates team. I think Carter's defense is one of the top 5 in the last 30 years. Yates was a better but not by a whole lot. If you look at how they impacted the college and NFL scene, Carter's was better.

Jessie Armstead was a stud at Miami and above average in the NFL. Le'Shai Maston was good at Baylor and a little below average in the Pros. Nice career but not a huge impact.

They would both tell you that Derric Evans (one of the kids that went to prison) was the best of the bunch. Clifton Abraham was a junior who later starred at FSU and had a decent career in the NFL.

Yates noteable players were Melvin Foster who was a disappointment at Iowa and James Goode who had a respectable career at OU. Neither saw any action in the pros.

The difference in these teams was the offenses. Yates had Johnny Bailey who starred at Texas A&I and had a very good career with the Phoenix Cardinals.

Sooooo - depends on how you define who was better. IMHO, Yates was better as a team, slightly better at the high school level as a defense while Carter had more talented individuals who had better college and pro careers.

I saw them both in person.

Johnny Bailey is one of the most underrated players in Texas football history. That guy could just flat out play RB. Did he win like 2 Harlon Hill trophies ?

PS. Just looked it up.. he won 3 Harlon Hill trophies while at Texas A&I (A&M) Kingsville. The guy was just a flat out stud. Basically a Tony Dorsett clone.

StormingCowboy
08-15-2008, 08:47 AM
Heard the 88 Carter team had alot of 20 year old seniors playing?

No you heard wrong. People were trying to rationalize the high level of so much talent assembled on one team. Those guys grew up playing ball together and against each other in little league and middle school.

d-train
08-15-2008, 08:58 AM
No you heard wrong. People were trying to rationalize the high level of so much talent assembled on one team. Those guys grew up playing ball together and against each other in little league and middle school.
Great talent, not near the greatest team. Foster and those kids only gave up 77 points, they not only had the state's top defense, but offense also, scoring more than any 5A team ever! Their district mate, Jones made the quarters, so Yates had to beat them twice, HISD had way stronger teams than DISD, and they beat a great SA Holmes team in the semis. Carter has no title, didn't break any records, and they cheated, they don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same conversation with 85 Yates!

stinger
08-15-2008, 09:01 AM
With that much talent in prison, Carter could have made the movie " The Longest Yard" years ago.

Gazelle
08-15-2008, 09:20 AM
I've got a friend who played then and he said they loved playing against the East Texas teams because they could go by the Seagoville Correctional Facillity and pick up a few more players.

LoneRocket
08-15-2008, 09:56 AM
With that much talent in prison, Carter could have made the movie " The Longest Yard" years ago.

Three or Four players make a prison team? Did a mother accuse you all of having an all-star Steroids Team at one time?

LoneRocket
08-15-2008, 09:59 AM
I've got a friend who played then and he said they loved playing against the East Texas teams because they could go by the Seagoville Correctional Facillity and pick up a few more players.

Some said back then some of you all loved going near the coca fields so they could put something up their nose.

Matthew 2000 Eagle
08-15-2008, 10:53 AM
Three or Four players make a prison team? Did a mother accuse you all of having an all-star Steroids Team at one time?

:eek::eek::notworthy

Matthew 2000 Eagle
08-15-2008, 10:53 AM
Some said back then some of you all loved going near the coca fields so you could put something up your nose.

OUCH!

stinger
08-15-2008, 10:59 AM
Three or Four players make a prison team? Did a mother accuse you all of having an all-star Steroids Team at one time?



I have no idea what you are referring to...enlighten me with your sarcasm. Or is it the fear you have of a great team with size, speed, talent, athleticism,,,the whole package?:D

mojoman21
08-15-2008, 10:59 AM
i saw both yates and carter, and yates would have spanked them.

jdlewallen
08-15-2008, 01:29 PM
Carter was given the game over Permian on a blatantly blown call (about the ONLY thing the movie got right)...I was there, I saw the ball hit the turf..:mad:

The 85 Yates team was a bunch of freakin' monsters....they would have demolished the 88 Carter team...:eek:

odessapermian.com
08-15-2008, 01:43 PM
about the ONLY thing the movie got right

If I may nitpick just a tad.....IMHO the movie didn't quite get it right, simply for the fact that the bad call was blatantly more obvious in person than the movie made it out to be. :Censor:

85 Yates > 88 Carter

CCBoy
08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Carter may not be the best teams in Texas, but other than the haters, they will always be mentioned among the best in Texas.

No one mentioned a ball hitting the ground(so called "questionable call") until this book was printed and when the movie came out, but I guess I would use that excuse too to justify our team losing.

There were plenty of great guys on this team that I grew up with, and they were all of age(another added rumor to deminish this teams greatness).

farmerfan
08-15-2008, 03:13 PM
Carter may not be the best teams in Texas, but other than the haters, they will always be mentioned among the best in Texas.
No one mentioned a ball hitting the ground(so called "questionable call") until this book was printed and when the movie came out, but I guess I would use that excuse too to justify our team losing.

There were plenty of great guys on this team that I grew up with, and they were all of age(another added rumor to deminish this teams greatness).

Those two bolded text go hand in hand though, the only difference is that there is proof of the ball hitting the ground.
As for them always being mentioned as one of the best ever that is simply due to the book. Buzz did a great job of marketing for that Carter team with his discriptions of them leading up to the game in the final text before the Algebraic Equation chapter.
Had it not been for the book that Carter team would not ever be mentioned among the best ever in this state. Too many close calls in the playoffs as well as two ties during the regular season and not even winning their own district title justify that thought process.
It has nothing to do with haters but everything to do with reality and in reality they are not among the best ever.

CCBoy
08-15-2008, 03:29 PM
Those two bolded text go hand in hand though, the only difference is that there is proof of the ball hitting the ground.
As for them always being mentioned as one of the best ever that is simply due to the book. Buzz did a great job of marketing for that Carter team with his discriptions of them leading up to the game in the final text before the Algebraic Equation chapter.
Had it not been for the book that Carter team would not ever be mentioned among the best ever in this state. Too many close calls in the playoffs as well as two ties during the regular season and not even winning their own district title justify that thought process.
It has nothing to do with haters but everything to do with reality and in reality they are not among the best ever.

There was only one tie, and that was to Duncanville.

Carter 88 was being considered by many, long before the book came out, to be one of the greatest high school teams to ever play. The movie didn't do Carter any justice, and most Carter fans weren't happy with how the movie show them.

When I went off to college in another state there were people wanting to come home with me to see Carter play, and there wasn't a movie at the time.

But I guess we all are entitled to our own opinion, and they will always be mentioned among the best. No matter how we try to read into it and find a reason why they are not.

CCBoy
08-15-2008, 03:31 PM
The only footage of the so-called, "Bounced Pass" is on the movie. "HOLLYWOOD"

mojoguy
08-15-2008, 04:14 PM
The only footage of the so-called, "Bounced Pass" is on the movie. "HOLLYWOOD"

That would be an incorrect assumption sir. ;)

Actually if I remember right from watching the film a few years back, it was more of a dropped pass that clearly hit the ground that the receiver trapped. The ref made a bad call. It happens. Our 1988 squad was clearly beaten that day.... 14-9. Like I said, that wasn't even one of our strongest teams. It was a good win for Carter, but they definitely didn't have their way with Permian or anything like that at all. One of the greatest teams of all time probably would have. Just sayin.

RedRage00
08-15-2008, 04:26 PM
Some said back then some of you all loved going near the coca fields so you could put something up your nose.

:notworthy:notworthy

StormingCowboy
08-15-2008, 04:53 PM
It's amazing to me how after 20 yrs threads mentioning my beloved alma mater's 1988 season still gets a lot of attention!!!

Most of it is negative, but its still attention!

Even though the final ruling didnt go our way, even though some of the players made very bad decisions, and even though many of you will probably never see Carter or anything dealing with Carter in positive light, I have to say that I LOVE CARTER will my whole soul. I remember the feeling of defeat after being told that we could not continue in the playoffs and then the feeling of euphoria when told we were back in. This was a back and forward affair through the playoffs. I remember the comeback against Marshall. I remember the cold game @ UT against MOJO. I remember when the final horn when off when we beat Judson in Texas Stadium with the Dallas community behind us pulling for a school that they were against just several weeks before.

The joy that memory brings still has a place in my heart. I hated it when two years later that they ruled that our player was inelgible but the memory had 2 years to be absorbed and it was!! And what was absorbed was that in 1988 the Carter Cowboys was the best in Texas. The road getting there was bumpy, but we got there! We don't have the brass to show for it but the memory is priceless.

jdlewallen
08-15-2008, 05:39 PM
Carter may not be the best teams in Texas, but other than the haters, they will always be mentioned among the best in Texas.

No one mentioned a ball hitting the ground(so called "questionable call") until this book was printed and when the movie came out, but I guess I would use that excuse too to justify our team losing.

There were plenty of great guys on this team that I grew up with, and they were all of age(another added rumor to deminish this teams greatness).

I saw the pass hit the ground, and that led to the TD that was the difference in the game...which led to Carter's win. It was a tight game and it really sucks to have a team lose a shot at a state title in that manner.

That said, the 88 Carter team had some real talent, and I think it is sad that they wound up tainting the team/school's achievements with some poor decisions by a couple of individuals...

jdlewallen
08-15-2008, 05:43 PM
That would be an incorrect assumption sir. ;)

Actually if I remember right from watching the film a few years back, it was more of a dropped pass that clearly hit the ground that the receiver trapped. The ref made a bad call. It happens. Our 1988 squad was clearly beaten that day.... 14-9. Like I said, that wasn't even one of our strongest teams. It was a good win for Carter, but they definitely didn't have their way with Permian or anything like that at all. One of the greatest teams of all time probably would have. Just sayin.

No, they were NOT. They fought like mad, and a very tight game had the deciding points determined by that blatantly bad call. They were not on top on the scoreboard at the very end, but to say they were "clearly beaten" is patently false...

mojoguy
08-15-2008, 06:34 PM
No, they were NOT. They fought like mad, and a very tight game had the deciding points determined by that blatantly bad call. They were not on top on the scoreboard at the very end, but to say they were "clearly beaten" is patently false...

Clearly beaten as in the score on the scoreboard at the end clearly showed that they scored more points than us. Not clearly beaten as in they broke our wills. Our boys battled hard and definitely earned their chicken fry that day, so to speak. Keep in mind they had a chance to win the game at the end too and it took a very good play to break up the pass to Lloyd Hill in the endzone. As a Permian fan, surely you know that we get hosed on more than our fair share of close calls if the refs can justify it at all. The difference is that usually we win after the bad calls. That time we didn't. Carter clearly won on the field.

mojotrain
08-15-2008, 09:19 PM
Carter may not be the best teams in Texas, but other than the haters, they will always be mentioned among the best in Texas.

No one mentioned a ball hitting the ground(so called "questionable call") until this book was printed and when the movie came out, but I guess I would use that excuse too to justify our team losing.

There were plenty of great guys on this team that I grew up with, and they were all of age(another added rumor to deminish this teams greatness).

For gosh sakes CC. Permian had been beaten twice that year. I have brought up the skip a pass play on every string that mentions how great the Carter team was. I have no hate towards the kids of Carter. I just hate the ref! What he did was as bad as what the Carter kids did.

mustang4ever
08-15-2008, 09:37 PM
It's amazing to me how after 20 yrs threads mentioning my beloved alma mater's 1988 season still gets a lot of attention!!!

Most of it is negative, but its still attention!

Even though the final ruling didnt go our way, even though some of the players made very bad decisions, and even though many of you will probably never see Carter or anything dealing with Carter in positive light, I have to say that I LOVE CARTER will my whole soul. I remember the feeling of defeat after being told that we could not continue in the playoffs and then the feeling of euphoria when told we were back in. This was a back and forward affair through the playoffs. I remember the comeback against Marshall. I remember the cold game @ UT against MOJO. I remember when the final horn when off when we beat Judson in Texas Stadium with the Dallas community behind us pulling for a school that they were against just several weeks before.

The joy that memory brings still has a place in my heart. I hated it when two years later that they ruled that our player was inelgible but the memory had 2 years to be absorbed and it was!! And what was absorbed was that in 1988 the Carter Cowboys was the best in Texas. The road getting there was bumpy, but we got there! We don't have the brass to show for it but the memory is priceless.


You have every right to feel the way you do. I was a Sr. in High School in 88 and remember that team very well. They were a very good football team. I have no idea about the bad call in the MOJO game. All I know is Carter won the game. Since I'm starting my 15th year in coaching I can also say this: One bad call does not decide a game. It may seem like it but, I can promise you there were other plays in the game that were not made. It could be something as simple as a dropped pass or a failure to get a first down in third and short situation. Things like that are HUGE in big ballgames. Stop living in the past and move on.

One last thing. I'm from the Metroplex and I do know that the Carter Cowboys didn't act anything like the movie portrayed them to. I'm sure they had their problems, just like every other team in the state, but in the games I saw them play I never saw them act the way alot of people like to say they did. All I saw was a bunch of guys who could flat out fly and loved to knock the crap out of their opponents.

SLC93
08-15-2008, 10:27 PM
Those two bolded text go hand in hand though, the only difference is that there is proof of the ball hitting the ground.
As for them always being mentioned as one of the best ever that is simply due to the book. Buzz did a great job of marketing for that Carter team with his discriptions of them leading up to the game in the final text before the Algebraic Equation chapter.
Had it not been for the book that Carter team would not ever be mentioned among the best ever in this state. Too many close calls in the playoffs as well as two ties during the regular season and not even winning their own district title justify that thought process.
It has nothing to do with haters but everything to do with reality and in reality they are not among the best ever.

Straight forward, simple & the truth, that's the best, nutshell summation of this issue that I've ever read.

odessapermian.com
08-15-2008, 10:52 PM
No one mentioned a ball hitting the ground(so called "questionable call") until this book was printed and when the movie came out, but I guess I would use that excuse too to justify our team losing.


Ummm, yeah....how many message boards were around in December 1988? :rolleyes:

The call was horrible, and I guarantee you 90% of the people who were at the game would have screamed to High Heaven on message boards like this, had they been around then.

On another post you state that there is no footage of the play, other than the movie. Actually, you are wrong. KT2000 had a VHS copy of that game, and gave me a copy at the state 7 on 7 tournament a few years ago. I have tried to convert it to the proper format to post on the web, but it is not clear enough to see anything. I let a friend borrow the tape- if I can ever get it back I'll gladly send yo a copy of the play.

odessapermian.com
08-15-2008, 10:57 PM
I saw the pass hit the ground, and that led to the TD that was the difference in the game...which led to Carter's win. It was a tight game and it really sucks to have a team lose a shot at a state title in that manner.

That said, the 88 Carter team had some real talent, and I think it is sad that they wound up tainting the team/school's achievements with some poor decisions by a couple of individuals...


As I recall it, the receiver dove for the ball. He was laid straight out, a good 3 feet off the ground, when the ball hit in front of him, then bounced right into his chest. He hits the ground, lands on the ball, referee calls it a completion.

mojotrain
08-16-2008, 12:39 AM
You have every right to feel the way you do. I was a Sr. in High School in 88 and remember that team very well. They were a very good football team. I have no idea about the bad call in the MOJO game. All I know is Carter won the game. Since I'm starting my 15th year in coaching I can also say this: One bad call does not decide a game. It may seem like it but, I can promise you there were other plays in the game that were not made. It could be something as simple as a dropped pass or a failure to get a first down in third and short situation. Things like that are HUGE in big ballgames. Stop living in the past and move on.

One last thing. I'm from the Metroplex and I do know that the Carter Cowboys didn't act anything like the movie portrayed them to. I'm sure they had their problems, just like every other team in the state, but in the games I saw them play I never saw them act the way alot of people like to say they did. All I saw was a bunch of guys who could flat out fly and loved to knock the crap out of their opponents.

Well whooo haw, a fifteen year coach. Lordy me, I'm impressed!
For my qualification listen to this. I'm starting my 44 th year as a Permian season ticket holder! I bet that that impressed the dog out of you, didn't it?

Permian and Carter both missed blocks, dropped passes, fumbled and farted alike for three plus quarters. Two equal teams on pretty even terms. A intentional blow call cost Permian the game. All things being equal after three plus quarters the last mistake cost the game. The zebra made the last mistake. It happens now and then to everyone, perhaps even Carter. I'm sure if it's happened in a game of that magnitude they complained. Permian holds no patent on crying.

I saw the game. Carter looked like every other team we played. I saw nothing dirty and havent implied such. No one on the Permian side of town puts stock in the movie. Like hollywood it's phoney just airheads and those who are turned a little funny.

Coach of 15 years, the point of my argument as a Permian fan of 44 years is Carter squeeked in a game aided by a crooked call by a bias ref. and beat a good but twice beaten Permian team. Give the players on your Carter team all the lip service you wish but your 88 Carter wouldnt make the top 5 All time, all West Texas List.

farmerfan
08-16-2008, 04:03 AM
Go Dawgs Sic Em

farmerfan
08-16-2008, 04:06 AM
fArmer may be a drunk but farmer kn9ows when to oeep quiet.
farmer hates this schooland how thye march to grandioso.

farmer leaves gradndioso but not his lifve.


grandiososo.

Texas is a great school!!!!!!

farmerfan
08-16-2008, 04:31 AM
SLC93

You're tied into the 41 SHOTS

This is not a Farmer thing but this game is making us turn to it and the secrets dont lie

SLC93
08-16-2008, 12:44 PM
Well whooo haw, a fifteen year coach. Lordy me, I'm impressed!
For my qualification listen to this. I'm starting my 44 th year as a Permian season ticket holder! I bet that that impressed the dog out of you, didn't it?

Permian and Carter both missed blocks, dropped passes, fumbled and farted alike for three plus quarters. Two equal teams on pretty even terms. A intentional blow call cost Permian the game. All things being equal after three plus quarters the last mistake cost the game. The zebra made the last mistake. It happens now and then to everyone, perhaps even Carter. I'm sure if it's happened in a game of that magnitude they complained. Permian holds no patent on crying.

I saw the game. Carter looked like every other team we played. I saw nothing dirty and havent implied such. No one on the Permian side of town puts stock in the movie. Like hollywood it's phoney just airheads and those who are turned a little funny.

Coach of 15 years, the point of my argument as a Permian fan of 44 years is Carter squeeked in a game aided by a crooked call by a bias ref. and beat a good but twice beaten Permian team. Give the players on your Carter team all the lip service you wish but your 88 Carter wouldnt make the top 5 All time, all West Texas List.

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

SLC93
08-16-2008, 12:45 PM
SLC93

You're tied into the 41 SHOTS

This is not a Farmer thing but this game is making us turn to it and the secrets dont lie

This explains alot, though I have no idea what it means. Stay strong, Farmer!:D

Matthew 2000 Eagle
08-16-2008, 01:03 PM
SLC93

You're tied into the 41 SHOTS

This is not a Farmer thing but this game is making us turn to it and the secrets dont lie

41 SHOTS?!?!?!?!

Hell, I'd been out of it after 12!

farmerfan
08-16-2008, 02:10 PM
This explains alot, though I have no idea what it means. Stay strong, Farmer!:D

farmer needs a emoticon or whatever they are called with a head pounding on a table after reading that. farmer doesnet know either.
farmer did say 41 shots because that is one of his favorite Springsteen songs which is called 41 shots (American Skin) that he knows is where that came from :D

farmerfan
08-16-2008, 02:11 PM
41 SHOTS?!?!?!?!

Hell, I'd been out of it after 12!

dude farmer would die if he did that, as I just said to SLC93, 41 shots is one of his favorite Springsteen songs, its actually called American Skin (41 shots).

mustang4ever
08-16-2008, 08:21 PM
Well whooo haw, a fifteen year coach. Lordy me, I'm impressed!
For my qualification listen to this. I'm starting my 44 th year as a Permian season ticket holder! I bet that that impressed the dog out of you, didn't it?

Permian and Carter both missed blocks, dropped passes, fumbled and farted alike for three plus quarters. Two equal teams on pretty even terms. A intentional blow call cost Permian the game. All things being equal after three plus quarters the last mistake cost the game. The zebra made the last mistake. It happens now and then to everyone, perhaps even Carter. I'm sure if it's happened in a game of that magnitude they complained. Permian holds no patent on crying.

I saw the game. Carter looked like every other team we played. I saw nothing dirty and havent implied such. No one on the Permian side of town puts stock in the movie. Like hollywood it's phoney just airheads and those who are turned a little funny.

Coach of 15 years, the point of my argument as a Permian fan of 44 years is Carter squeeked in a game aided by a crooked call by a bias ref. and beat a good but twice beaten Permian team. Give the players on your Carter team all the lip service you wish but your 88 Carter wouldnt make the top 5 All time, all West Texas List.


I wasn't trying to brag or make you think I knew more than anyone else. I wasn't even at the game and they are NOT MY Carter Cowboys. I was just trying to make a point. A point which you made for me, "The last mistake cost us the game." Maby, if you hadn't made the mistakes before the last one you would have won the game. The bad call wouldn't have even mattered. Or, what if the official had made the correct call an Carter had to punt and your return man muffed the punt and Carter recovered and then scored. Who would you blame then? I would also like to know how he was a biased official? I mean both Head Coaches have to agree on the officiating chapter that is used in a playoff game. If they can't agree the UIL then assigns a chapter. Oops, then I guess it's the UIL's fault now!
I'm sorry that I upset a fan of the almighty MOJO.
Wish your kids the best of luck this year.

Matthew 2000 Eagle
08-16-2008, 11:30 PM
dude farmer would die if he did that, as I just said to SLC93, 41 shots is one of his favorite Springsteen songs, its actually called American Skin (41 shots).

OH..my fault!

SLC93
08-16-2008, 11:39 PM
farmer needs a emoticon or whatever they are called with a head pounding on a table after reading that. farmer doesnet know either.
farmer did say 41 shots because that is one of his favorite Springsteen songs which is called 41 shots (American Skin) that he knows is where that came from :D

Should we ever form a support group for board members, I suggest we call it 41 Shots.:D

tiger94
08-17-2008, 09:52 AM
I agree with the coach, and what if the permian player would of ran back the kickoff for a touchdown after carter scored. Then no mojo fan would bring up the controversial call. Reffs are human and I have had my times when I would of loved to strangled a zebra a couple of times when a big call went against a team I was going for. I had a basketball coach tell our team all the time if a game is decided by a refs call and you lose then you don't deserve to win. My point is make sure that the game isn't close so the variable in every game the human factor doesn't play a role. This reminds me of what the legendary coach from FT. Worth Dunbar stated earlier this year when asked about being crowned the state champions after south oak cliff had to forfeit the state championship in basketball from a couple years ago. The Dunbar coach said he didn't want the trophy cause they didn't win the game on the court where it was played.

odessapermian.com
08-17-2008, 03:09 PM
what if the official had made the correct call an Carter had to punt and your return man muffed the punt and Carter recovered and then scored.

What if the ref made the correct call, Carter had to punt, and Permian ran the punt back for a TD? Then, Permian onside kicks, gets it, throws a bomb, and scores again? We can do the strawman argument routine all day. :D

The fact is, there are missed calls that wind up being fairly benign, then there are those blatantly terrible calls that change a game. The "catch" in this game was definitely the latter.

mojotrain
08-18-2008, 01:02 AM
I agree with the coach, and what if the permian player would of ran back the kickoff for a touchdown after carter scored. Then no mojo fan would bring up the controversial call. Reffs are human and I have had my times when I would of loved to strangled a zebra a couple of times when a big call went against a team I was going for. I had a basketball coach tell our team all the time if a game is decided by a refs call and you lose then you don't deserve to win. My point is make sure that the game isn't close so the variable in every game the human factor doesn't play a role. This reminds me of what the legendary coach from FT. Worth Dunbar stated earlier this year when asked about being crowned the state champions after south oak cliff had to forfeit the state championship in basketball from a couple years ago. The Dunbar coach said he didn't want the trophy cause they didn't win the game on the court where it was played.

I'll try it this way. t94
The play happened as described with the ref looking directly at it with a clear unobstucted view. There would have been no need to run a football back on the following kickoff. Gaines didn't tell the players that if the ref screws you we will run the ensuing k-off back 100 yds to win. It happens to every team sooner or later and at times is has nothing to do with humans making a mistake. Don't be so niave as to state on this board that humans don't cheat. If you were not at the game or have never seen the film your input is opinion only. Opinions are fine but that means the subject matter, the final conclusion is undocumented.This call was documented.

But this thread is about Carter 88 being a top Texas Highschool team. The incomplete pass was mentioned by me because it points out just how beatable Carter was by a not great and twice beaten Permian team. If you take away the bias call by a ref. and Carter wins by honest effort. They still just squeeked by a twice beaten Permian team which may not have been in the top 10 of all of Permians teams. If 88 Permian was one of the top 10 Permian teams it would have been 8, 9 or 10 at best. I've seen SLC 2006, ET 2006 and ET2007. All three were better teams than Carter 88. Midland Lee in Bensons jr. year was better than Carter 88. Pick any of the poisons above and Carter 88 isn't among them.

On Carters side, Permians coach Gaines said they were the best he had ever played. But he never Played A Katy, a SLC, ET 2006 or 2007, Jack Yates or a Benson led Lee team.

So now this debate may continue but Old Jack Yates was the best I've ever seen and I did see them as well as Carter. NOT CLOSE.

CCBoy
08-19-2008, 03:34 PM
I'll try it this way. t94
The play happened as described with the ref looking directly at it with a clear unobstucted view. There would have been no need to run a football back on the following kickoff. Gaines didn't tell the players that if the ref screws you we will run the ensuing k-off back 100 yds to win. It happens to every team sooner or later and at times is has nothing to do with humans making a mistake. Don't be so niave as to state on this board that humans don't cheat. If you were not at the game or have never seen the film your input is opinion only. Opinions are fine but that means the subject matter, the final conclusion is undocumented.This call was documented.

But this thread is about Carter 88 being a top Texas Highschool team. The incomplete pass was mentioned by me because it points out just how beatable Carter was by a not great and twice beaten Permian team. If you take away the bias call by a ref. and Carter wins by honest effort. They still just squeeked by a twice beaten Permian team which may not have been in the top 10 of all of Permians teams. If 88 Permian was one of the top 10 Permian teams it would have been 8, 9 or 10 at best. I've seen SLC 2006, ET 2006 and ET2007. All three were better teams than Carter 88. Midland Lee in Bensons jr. year was better than Carter 88. Pick any of the poisons above and Carter 88 isn't among them.

On Carters side, Permians coach Gaines said they were the best he had ever played. But he never Played A Katy, a SLC, ET 2006 or 2007, Jack Yates or a Benson led Lee team.

So now this debate may continue but Old Jack Yates was the best I've ever seen and I did see them as well as Carter. NOT CLOSE.

I don't think anyone is comparing Carter and Yates. Although it has been debated. I didn't see that Yates team. I do remember reading about them, and I would never debate that fact. Many will debate that Carter 88 is among the best to play.

The Great Evaluator
08-19-2008, 04:02 PM
I don't think anyone is comparing Carter and Yates. Although it has been debated. I didn't see that Yates team. I do remember reading about them, and I would never debate that fact. Many will debate that Carter 88 is among the best to play.

I saw them both and Yates was better but I'd put Carter's defense from 88 up there with anybody. Armstead to this day is the best linebacker I've ever seen. He was the first ever 3 time Parade All-American.

d-train
08-19-2008, 04:15 PM
Back in those days most teams ran the ball. Yates was balanced, and they ran a pro-t and the I-formation. They only gave up 77 points! 5A football, 16 games, and only give up 77 points? Inner city football was not like it is today in Texas, Yates, Madison, Lamar, Jones, Sterling, Waltrip, Kashmere, Carter, LBJ, Reagan, Sam Houston could battle any of the burb schools and win. There actually was community support and neighborhood pride back in those days.

atwelljroc
08-19-2008, 04:29 PM
Are we talking about the same team that lost their state title for cheating??? No matter how good a team...if you cheat, you are no longer good, you cheated and that is all that matters...

Mojo should have played Judson for the state title that year...if you choose to cheat, you get what is coming to you...they cheated...plain and simple...they loose...

mojotrain
08-19-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't think anyone is comparing Carter and Yates. Although it has been debated. I didn't see that Yates team. I do remember reading about them, and I would never debate that fact. Many will debate that Carter 88 is among the best to play.

Well yes, I was comparing Carter to Yates. It's all opinions. Thats just my opinion and I based my opinion on having seen them both. Being beaten by both of them and having a opinion of which Permian team that was beaten, was the better of the Permian teams I don't know how Yates/Carter could be compared by those who didn't see both but we all have a knack for fussing with each other. Like I mentioned, You do have the Permian Coach on your side but what does he know?:) He's in Lubbock now.:)

mojoman21
08-19-2008, 09:19 PM
in all fairness to carter, when they came to odessa in 95, they got a bad call at the end of the game after they scored a touchdown.

Rocketman
08-19-2008, 09:20 PM
I was on the Judson team that year, and Carter was good, not great. We (Judson) made some bad mistakes in the first half we were getting beat 24-7 at the half, 2nd half was a different game. we calmed down and played them straight up. 7-7 in the 2nd half. Honestly yeah I feel they were a little better than we were but atleast we didn't cheat to get there.

I watched 85 Yates play S.A. Holmes and they just walked all over them, Johnny Bailey Yates running back was the fastest running back I think I have ever seen. he went onto play for the bears.

But pound for pound the Greatest team was the 83' Judson Rockets, They beat a very good Yates team that year and went onto beat a good Midland Lee team. Never forget that Yates vs Judson game in 83' at alamo stadium. Judson was out weighed on the line by 60lbs ,Yates had Bailey in the back field as soph. but he was still good being that young and their QB, WR's were all very good, but they could not beat a fast, quick Judson team that was so fired up it was crazy saturday at the Rock. aka alamo stadium. Never forget the Yates coaches did even want to review Judson game tapes, they said we will the game by half time didn't even bother looking at Judson's games. Boy did they get a surprise.

mustang4ever
08-19-2008, 09:28 PM
Back in those days most teams ran the ball. Yates was balanced, and they ran a pro-t and the I-formation. They only gave up 77 points! 5A football, 16 games, and only give up 77 points? Inner city football was not like it is today in Texas, Yates, Madison, Lamar, Jones, Sterling, Waltrip, Kashmere, Carter, LBJ, Reagan, Sam Houston could battle any of the burb schools and win. There actually was community support and neighborhood pride back in those days.

Back in 88 Carter was not considered an inner-city school. In fact, it was considered middle to upper-middle class.

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 09:31 PM
I was on the Judson team that year, and Carter was good, not great. We (Judson) made some bad mistakes in the first half we were getting beat 24-7 at the half, 2nd half was a different game. we calmed down and played them straight up. 7-7 in the 2nd half. Honestly yeah I feel they were a little better than we were but atleast we didn't cheat to get there.

I watched 85 Yates play S.A. Holmes and they just walked all over them, Johnny Bailey Yates running back was the fastest running back I think I have ever seen. he went onto play for the bears.

But pound for pound the Greatest team was the 83' Judson Rockets, They beat a very good Yates team that year and went onto beat a good Midland Lee team. Never forget that Yates vs Judson game in 83' at alamo stadium. Judson was out weighed on the line by 60lbs ,Yates had Bailey in the back field as soph. but he was still good being that young and their QB, WR's were all very good, but they could not beat a fast, quick Judson team that was so fired up it was crazy saturday at the Rock. aka alamo stadium. Never forget the Yates coaches did even want to review Judson game tapes, they said we will the game by half time didn't even bother looking at Judson's games. Boy did they get a surprise.

One of the key points of the game was when both of Judson DE's crushed the Carter QB on the 2nd or 3rd play of the game and he came right back in and did not miss a beat. That day they did not need that player in question.

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 09:32 PM
Back in 88 Carter was not considered an inner-city school. In fact, it was considered middle to upper-middle class.
Also Reagan and LBJ were not inner city schools and Sam Houston was a mix of incomes during that period in time.

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 09:33 PM
I was on the Judson team that year, and Carter was good, not great. We (Judson) made some bad mistakes in the first half we were getting beat 24-7 at the half, 2nd half was a different game. we calmed down and played them straight up. 7-7 in the 2nd half. Honestly yeah I feel they were a little better than we were but atleast we didn't cheat to get there.

I watched 85 Yates play S.A. Holmes and they just walked all over them, Johnny Bailey Yates running back was the fastest running back I think I have ever seen. he went onto play for the bears.

But pound for pound the Greatest team was the 83' Judson Rockets, They beat a very good Yates team that year and went onto beat a good Midland Lee team. Never forget that Yates vs Judson game in 83' at alamo stadium. Judson was out weighed on the line by 60lbs ,Yates had Bailey in the back field as soph. but he was still good being that young and their QB, WR's were all very good, but they could not beat a fast, quick Judson team that was so fired up it was crazy saturday at the Rock. aka alamo stadium. Never forget the Yates coaches did even want to review Judson game tapes, they said we will the game by half time didn't even bother looking at Judson's games. Boy did they get a surprise.

Yes the 83 team was just plain mean, Coach Booker took that Yates loss to Judson hard and made Holmes pay for it.

pied
08-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Back in 88 Carter was not considered an inner-city school. In fact, it was considered middle to upper-middle class.

MAybe by those at Carter, but I can assure the rest of the metroplex considered them inner city.

pied
08-19-2008, 10:20 PM
Also Reagan and LBJ was not an inner city school and Sam Houston was a mix of incomes.

Austin Reagan?

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 10:21 PM
Austin Reagan?

Yes back in the 1980's.

mustang4ever
08-19-2008, 10:23 PM
MAybe by those at Carter, but I can assure the rest of the metroplex considered them inner city.

No they didn't.

pied
08-19-2008, 10:28 PM
I graduated from Arlington Lamar in 89 and lived next door to regan in90/91.

I disagree with both of you.

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 10:29 PM
MAybe by those at Carter, but I can assure the rest of the metroplex considered them inner city.

No, if you traveled in the area during that time there were a lot of middle class families mainly because of segregation issues of the 60ís, 70ís and 80ís and families who wanted to stay in the same area. There was migration to other areas of the metroplex in the 90ís and today. Some of the Oak Cliff posters can explain better than I can.

KLH75287
08-19-2008, 10:31 PM
I'm a sucker for this. Everytime someone brings them up, I bite. 88 Carter was a very good team, nothing more, nothing less. The are the most over rated of all the teams that get mention in the best ever category, however. They had the best talent in the state, possibly the nation, that season. Despite that the points for/points against is rather unimpressive. Their offense was not dominant & they failed to win all of their games. Additionally, they squeeked by several weeks in a row during their playoff run. That includes a game that many felt was habded to them due to some seriously questionable calls. I think this team gets a bad rap due to the off field things that happened after the season & the grade scandal during it. I leave that stuff out in my eval. There were alot of great kids on that squad. Jesse Armstead remains one of my alltime favorites, both as a player & a person. History has inflated this squad entirely too much. That's directly related to the lack of annual contenders produced by the DISD. This team is all they've had for the better part of the last several decades.

Agreed... They were a good team, but not a GREAT team, nor a dominate team. Armstead, Hill, and a few other crazy good players, and a scandal riddled title.

That's about it.

LoneRocket
08-19-2008, 10:37 PM
I graduated from Arlington Lamar in 89 and lived next door to regan in90/91.

I disagree with both of you.

The migration of families from the Reagan area started around 1989, I have friends who graduated from Reagan during that time period been to their childhood homes it was once a thriving middle class area. Now there are a lot of older home owners and rental homes and apartments in the area. The demographics have changed since the late 1980's those Reagan families children moved to surrounding cities and southwest Austin where there are new housing upstarts. If you ever have a chance to talk to an elderly person who lives in the Reagan area they will tell you.

pied
08-20-2008, 09:08 AM
The migration of families from the Reagan area started around 1989, I have friends who graduated from Reagan during that time period been to their childhood homes it was once a thriving middle class area. Now there are a lot of older home owners and rental homes and apartments in the area. The demographics have changed since the late 1980's those Reagan families children moved to surrounding cities and southwest Austin where there are new housing upstarts. If you ever have a chance to talk to an elderly person who lives in the Reagan area they will tell you.

As I said earlier, I lived about half a mile from Reagan. I moved in 8/90. At the time the apartments were called The Vineyard and it changed to MacKenzie Point when I moved back in '93. I also was in the same neighborhood in late June sponsoring kids on a mission trip.

That is where I get my information.

pied
08-20-2008, 09:10 AM
No, if you traveled in the area during that time there were a lot of middle class families mainly because of segregation issues of the 60ís, 70ís and 80ís and families who wanted to stay in the same area. There was migration to other areas of the metroplex in the 90ís and today. Some of the Oak Cliff posters can explain better than I can.

I am somewhat familiar with the changes in Oak Cliff. My in laws lived there in the 60's and told me about the changes.

What I am saying is that in 1988, the majority of the metroplex considered Carter an inner city school, whatever that is supposed to mean.

d-train
08-20-2008, 09:29 AM
I was on the Judson team that year, and Carter was good, not great. We (Judson) made some bad mistakes in the first half we were getting beat 24-7 at the half, 2nd half was a different game. we calmed down and played them straight up. 7-7 in the 2nd half. Honestly yeah I feel they were a little better than we were but atleast we didn't cheat to get there.

I watched 85 Yates play S.A. Holmes and they just walked all over them, Johnny Bailey Yates running back was the fastest running back I think I have ever seen. he went onto play for the bears.

But pound for pound the Greatest team was the 83' Judson Rockets, They beat a very good Yates team that year and went onto beat a good Midland Lee team. Never forget that Yates vs Judson game in 83' at alamo stadium. Judson was out weighed on the line by 60lbs ,Yates had Bailey in the back field as soph. but he was still good being that young and their QB, WR's were all very good, but they could not beat a fast, quick Judson team that was so fired up it was crazy saturday at the Rock. aka alamo stadium. Never forget the Yates coaches did even want to review Judson game tapes, they said we will the game by half time didn't even bother looking at Judson's games. Boy did they get a surprise.
They lost to Churchil that year, didn't they, then beat them in the quarters? The Judson teams under Arnold ran multiple sets, not just the I-formation, and Chris Pryor was the FB in the non-I sets. They also passed a little more. Under Rutledge they were run no matter what from the I, and in short yardage, some pro-t. 87 Reagan grad, we were not inner city back in the 80s, when folks started heading to P-ville in the mid to late 90s, the area went down. In 86 were were 5A semifinalists, with 1600 kids, in 90 they had 1400, so the area was losing kids, because at that time P-ville was moving up from 3-5A. Now they are inner city. SW Austin is the only direction the city has to grow, but they don't have the athletes that were once found at LBJ and Reagan. Those families live in P-ville and Stoney Point areas in Round Rock. See the stands for P-ville ISD games and you will see former Raiders and Jaguars there cheering on their kids.

RedRage00
08-20-2008, 09:39 AM
I am somewhat familiar with the changes in Oak Cliff. My in laws lived there in the 60's and told me about the changes.

What I am saying is that in 1988, the majority of the metroplex considered Carter an inner city school, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Maybe because they were IN the City?

CCBoy
08-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Are we talking about the same team that lost their state title for cheating??? No matter how good a team...if you cheat, you are no longer good, you cheated and that is all that matters...

Mojo should have played Judson for the state title that year...if you choose to cheat, you get what is coming to you...they cheated...plain and simple...they loose...

I was a soph when we WON the CHAMPIONSHIP. The entire time I was in school we were considered state champions. They stripped our title on paper two years later, but it will always be known to me as a state title. Judson probably would have played the toughest team that we played in the playoffs, and that's Marshall, if we were stripped before the playoffs. The Permian game never had us on edge, and that game never got out of hand. The Marshall game on the the other hand, was a nail biter, but we pulled it out just as champions do.

nevaplayedk9
08-20-2008, 06:50 PM
I was a soph when we WON the CHAMPIONSHIP. The entire time I was in school we were considered state champions. They stripped our title on paper two years later, but it will always be known to me as a state title. Judson probably would have played the toughest team that we played in the playoffs, and that's Marshall, if we were stripped before the playoffs. The Permian game never had us on edge, and that game never got out of hand. The Marshall game on the the other hand, was a nail biter, but we pulled it out just as champions do.

as a judson fan.....many of us recognize that Carter was the 1988 state champions. even coach Rutledge refused to accept the the hardware when U.I.L. got involved because we did not win it on the field, but the school district board said otherwise.

game recognize game!

mojotrain
08-20-2008, 07:54 PM
in all fairness to carter, when they came to odessa in 95, they got a bad call at the end of the game after they scored a touchdown.

Is 95 Carter being billed as a top all time Texas team? Bad calls happen every single game is anyone denying that?

mojotrain
08-20-2008, 07:59 PM
I was a soph when we WON the CHAMPIONSHIP. The entire time I was in school we were considered state champions. They stripped our title on paper two years later, but it will always be known to me as a state title. Judson probably would have played the toughest team that we played in the playoffs, and that's Marshall, if we were stripped before the playoffs. The Permian game never had us on edge, and that game never got out of hand. The Marshall game on the the other hand, was a nail biter, but we pulled it out just as champions do.

Do you know what the score was just before you scored your last touchdown. You were the state champion, Carter was not a top ten in Texas.

WOS87
08-21-2008, 09:48 PM
Great article on Yates '85 that came out just before they played in the '92 State Title game against Temple

http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates1.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates2.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates3.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates4.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates5.gif

WOS87
08-21-2008, 09:49 PM
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates6.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates7.gif
http://idisk.mac.com/cboehme69-Public/stats/5a/yates8.gif

mjd36
08-23-2009, 08:13 PM
Does anyone have a detailed roster (like jersey number, height, weight)?

Thank you

Aggies2009
08-23-2009, 09:00 PM
Are we talking about the same team that lost their state title for cheating??? No matter how good a team...if you cheat, you are no longer good, you cheated and that is all that matters...

Mojo should have played Judson for the state title that year...if you choose to cheat, you get what is coming to you...they cheated...plain and simple...they loose...

I say Marshall should have played Judson. They had already beaten Permian and also lost to Carter...

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 09:10 PM
Anyone can say what they want........Carter's defense was one of the best ever and that facet alone would always leave the possibility that they could have beaten any other of the greatest Texas teams.
If the measure being used is biggest winning margins wouldn't Cedar Hill '06 be the best ever? I mean they were a dynamic team, but I wouldn't give that to them.
The taking away of that state title can't take away the fact that Carter '88 was one of the best. Yes they deserved to have the title taken.
Did everybody who ever cheat on a grade or in a game get caught?

Aggies2009
08-23-2009, 09:25 PM
Anyone can say what they want........Carter's defense was one of the best ever and that facet alone would always leave the possibility that they could have beaten any other of the greatest Texas teams.
If the measure being used is biggest winning margins wouldn't Cedar Hill '06 be the best ever? I mean they were a dynamic team, but I wouldn't give that to them.
The taking away of that state title can't take away the fact that Carter '88 was one of the best. Yes they deserved to have the title taken.
Did everybody who ever cheat on a grade or in a game get caught?

Best defense ever? What was the score of the Duncanville game? Wasn't it 37-37?

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 09:26 PM
Read carefully, one of the best defenses ever.

Best defense ever? What was the score of the Duncanville game? Wasn't it 37-37?

Aggies2009
08-23-2009, 09:29 PM
Read carefully, one of the best defenses ever.

I asked a question. What's the answer?:D

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 09:30 PM
24-24............Ask the question.

I asked a question. What's the answer?:D

33Blood
08-23-2009, 09:32 PM
They were certainly the best at getting talked about long after it was relevant. The team was loaded with talent but was far from one of the best ever. If you don't go through the season unbeaten, untied, and unscathed you don't cut it.

Aggies2009
08-23-2009, 09:33 PM
24-24............Ask the question.

Oh, I thought it was 37-37. Dunno why I thought that. Thought I had read it somewhere...:confused: But yeah, the talent on that defense was some of the best ever...

Aggies2009
08-23-2009, 09:34 PM
They were certainly the best at getting talked about long after it was relevant. The team was loaded with talent but was far from one of the best ever. If you don't go through the season unbeaten, untied, and unscathed you don't cut it.

Well, considering they went winless, they aren't one of the best. ;)

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Sound a little jealous.....lol
They were certainly the best at getting talked about long after it was relevant. The team was loaded with talent but was far from one of the best ever. If you don't go through the season unbeaten, untied, and unscathed you don't cut it.

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 09:38 PM
You sound a little jealous...lol.

They were certainly the best at getting talked about long after it was relevant. The team was loaded with talent but was far from one of the best ever. If you don't go through the season unbeaten, untied, and unscathed you don't cut it.

33Blood
08-23-2009, 09:46 PM
You sound a little jealous...lol.

Of what? Just tired of hearing about a team that gets way more credit than they deserve.

E-Vol-ution
08-23-2009, 10:01 PM
Sure you are.......:rolleyes:
Of what? Just tired of hearing about a team that gets way more credit than they deserve.