Can you Take Chinese Girls Gymnastics Seriously?

[Favpack]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?

[EagleDude73]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?

Should American Parents take lessons?

[Firebird]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?

Is it wrong for me to hope they fall? I guess so, but I agree with you. The age thing is bad enough, but the way the Chinese treat these little girls like automatons....it's disgusting. I've read a bit about how tough it is on American elite gymnasts, they sacrifice a lot of their childhood but what they do in China is just twisted. Just total control by the government.

I get so tired of watching these specials about them. You know what I'd like to see? A documentary about what happens to the girls who wash out and never make the Olympic team. There are scads of them, as they sweep up so many little kids and only the cream of the cream of the crop see the Olympics. It's gotta be gut wrenching to give up basically your entire childhood, to never have the option of quitting, and then get shown the door.

[KT2000]

I'm with you, Fav. And I thought Dominican little league baseball was corrupt.

[farmerfan]

I am new to this gymnastics stuff.
Can you please explain to me what the difference in 12-14 year old girls and 16 are for this stuff.
I have never watched it or heard an explanation as to what the huge advantage is concerning age.
Thanks

FWIW
Those girls dont look a dy over 11

[Firebird]

Looks like they are about to win the gold medal. I say, if you want it bad enough to falsify ages and take little kids away from their families at 3 years old, go ahead and take it.

[hunterbunter]

that tiny one looks like she's 12 or 13

[Firebird]

I am new to this gymnastics stuff.
Can you please explain to me what the difference in 12-14 year old girls and 16 are for this stuff.
I have never watched it or heard an explanation as to what the huge advantage is concerning age.
Thanks

FWIW
Those girls dont look a dy over 11

I wish I knew. I only watch it in Olympic years while waiting for swimming to come back on. The guy Costas interviewed said something about fearlessness, but I can't figure it out either. I also know that generally, the smaller the better in this sport.

[jtk1519]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?

And a certain Aggie grad student tried to tell me this was the Olympics were the closest thing to pure sport. The Olympics have been and continue to be one of the dirties and most corrupt forms of sport this side of the WWE.

[hunterbunter]

I am new to this gymnastics stuff.
Can you please explain to me what the difference in 12-14 year old girls and 16 are for this stuff.
I have never watched it or heard an explanation as to what the huge advantage is concerning age.
Thanks

FWIW
Those girls dont look a dy over 11

I would assume because of all the tumbling and flips they do, those younger girls have smaller frames and are lighter, its easier for them to do the flips and stick the landings.

[Firebird]

And a certain Aggie grad student tried to tell me this was the Olympics were the closest thing to pure sport. The Olympics have been and continue to be one of the dirties and most corrupt forms of sport this side of the WWE.

I have always been adamant in my dislike for gymnastics and every other subjectively judged sport. Doesn't change the fact that Michael Phelps is the worlds best athlete and is volunteering for extra drug testing and is allowing FINA to freeze his blood.

[hunterbunter]

LMAO did anyone hear what that RUssian guy just said about the chinese gymnastics team

[KT2000]

I am new to this gymnastics stuff.
Can you please explain to me what the difference in 12-14 year old girls and 16 are for this stuff.
I have never watched it or heard an explanation as to what the huge advantage is concerning age.
Thanks

FWIW
Those girls dont look a dy over 11

I heard the commentators talk about it a little the other night. Apparently, it is due to the intensity of the training. The shelf life of a gymnast is very short, and it is even shorter for the Chinese girls due to the intensity of their workouts.

They are picked out of the crowd at age 3, taken away from their families and then undergo rigorous training all throughout their childhood. They have no choice as this is seen as their duty to society. Female gymnasts who train "normally" peak between 16-18 years of age. For the Chinese, it is thought to be 13-15. 16 is the legal age for Olympic competition.

[farmerfan]

Thanks for the explinations.
So will their be an Olympic investigation once the games are over?

[Firebird]

Thanks for the explinations.
So will their be an Olympic investigation once the games are over?

They said tonight that the Chinese had produced passports and that's basically all they have to do for the organizing body. They won't pursue it any further. I mean really, what more can you ask for....if they want, the can falsify birth certificates. Like I said, let 'em have it if they want it that bad. Gotta keep a bit of perspective on what's important.

[Firebird]

I heard the commentators talk about it a little the other night. Apparently, it is due to the intensity of the training. The shelf life of a gymnast is very short, and it is even shorter for the Chinese girls due to the intensity of their workouts.

They are picked out of the crowd at age 3, taken away from their families and then undergo rigorous training all throughout their childhood. They have no choice as this is seen as their duty to society. Female gymnasts who train "normally" peak between 16-18 years of age. For the Chinese, it is thought to be 13-15. 16 is the legal age for Olympic competition.

Did you see the 33 year old on the German team the other night? I kinda thought that was cool. Several of the girls on our team are actually over 18 and college students. At least they'll be more balanced people after all is said and done.

[Bass]

Can't they tell how old you are from a dental x-ray?

[t-long20]

In China they have no age limit. If you have talent in any Olympic sport they'll strip you of your freedom and force you to train and compete against your will.

It's very sick to know that those little girls really didn't have a choice.

[jtk1519]

In China they have no age limit. If you have talent in any Olympic sport they'll strip you of your freedom and force you to train and compete against your will.

It's very sick to know that those little girls really didn't have a choice.

Who cares. The opening ceremony was cool and Phelps is winning a crap load of gold. Let's just pay attention to that.

[HUM398]

I hate the Olympics for this very reason.

always a side story....

and i can honestly careless about gymnastics.


Now, i am not saying that its right...but the corrupt nature of the Olympics just pisses me off and makes the whole thing not worth watching.

[t-long20]

Who cares. The opening ceremony was cool and Phelps is winning a crap load of gold. Let's just pay attention to that.

Bingo. That and the :Censor:whoopin America will lay down on Friday with Track & Field.

[jtk1519]

Now, i am not saying that its right...but the corrupt nature of the Olympics just pisses me off and makes the whole thing not worth watching.

this.

[HebronHawk]

The judging on the balance beam for the Chinese vs. the Americans was very screwed.

Chinese fall off beam and gets a big score.

American girl falls off beam and gets screwed.

[RedRage00]

China dominated. You can tell those girls were a lot more focused than the American team. The American girl would make one little mistake and it would get to her and she would falter.

And how hard is it to stay inside that mat during floor exercise(I think thats what its called)? All 3 Americans stepped out of bounds.

I don't know too much about the whole taking away the girls from the family for the Olympics, but the Chinese girls didn't look too upset after they had won? :confused: It must not bother them that much.

[Firebird]

I hate the Olympics because there's a chance someone might be cheating and lying about ages. But I love the NFL with Belicheat and teams of convicts and steroids and coaches who encourage athletes to destroy their bodies by playing hurt. I love NCAA football where it's almost the exact same thing, only colleges pretend they don't pay their players and the players pretend they are students, and what should be a university lies about the grades someone got. Still full of convicts and drugs.....:rolleyes:

Cheating is a part of sports, but some people are sure selective about when it bothers them and when it doesn't.

[drgnbkr]

Did you see the 33 year old on the German team the other night? I kinda thought that was cool. Several of the girls on our team are actually over 18 and college students. At least they'll be more balanced people after all is said and done.

I don't know how balanced Alicia Sacramone will be after last night...she had a rough go of it...You really feel bad for her because the spotlight is so bright and when they screw up there is nowhere to hide. There wasn't going to be much chance for the US girls if it was close, with China having home court..

[Miss Kitty]

China dominated. You can tell those girls were a lot more focused than the American team. The American girl would make one little mistake and it would get to her and she would falter.

And how hard is it to stay inside that mat during floor exercise(I think thats what its called)? All 3 Americans stepped out of bounds.

I don't know too much about the whole taking away the girls from the family for the Olympics, but the Chinese girls didn't look too upset after they had won? :confused: It must not bother them that much.

USA teams ALWAYS have a hard time with staying inbounds during the floor exercise. IMO it is because they are less compact than most of the other teams and their stride to build speed is longer. They still must do the flying and tumbling that the others do they just have to figure a way to be shorter.

[78 Spartan]

It's not news that the Chinese society is more rigid than ours, that individuals are expected to sacrifice for their country. There are a lot of things about Chinese society that would never fly in the USA. They don't have a Bill of Rights, or a Declaration of Independence that focuses on the individual's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

But don't for a minute think the bending and breaking of rules isn't endemic everywhere there is pressure to win (e.g. Bill Belichick, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens).

We can pi$$ and moan about the Chinese system, but at the end of the day, it's undeniable that the Chinese girls performed a lot better than the American girls when it counted. Why can't we just give them credit and leave it at that?

By the way, that same work ethic and the law of numbers in favor of the Chinese is going to impact us in every way imaginable in the next 100 years. We had better get used to seeing them kicking our @$$ economically, diplomatically, militarily, etc. if our only response is to gripe about their methods as being unfair. We have gotten soft if we think China's gymnastics advantage is that their girls don't have enough time to Facebook and IPOD their lives away.

My guess is that the American girls will perform better in the individual competition because, well, in America we are more focused on individual accomplishment and not so much on team. The Chinese have already won their Super Bowl. Ours is the individual all-around, because it gets a girl on a Wheaties box.

It's a lot more enjoyable watching the games when you take off the rose-colored "USA, USA, USA" glasses and just enjoy all the athletes and their performances. Whatever their training methods and whatever their ages, those Chinese girls were amazing. Try not to let it bug you too much. We'll be seeing a lot more of the same for the next 100 years.

[KT2000]

I don't know too much about the whole taking away the girls from the family for the Olympics, but the Chinese girls didn't look too upset after they had won? :confused: It must not bother them that much.

That's because they are government programmed machines. They don't know anything else. This is what their entire lives were built for courtesy of the Chinese government. It is their duty to society.

[RedRage00]

It's not news that the Chinese society is more rigid than ours, that individuals are expected to sacrifice for their country. There are a lot of things about Chinese society that would never fly in the USA. They don't have a Bill of Rights, or a Declaration of Independence that focuses on the individual's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

But don't for a minute think the bending and breaking of rules isn't endemic everywhere there is pressure to win (e.g. Bill Belichick, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens).

We can pi$$ and moan about the Chinese system, but at the end of the day, it's undeniable that the Chinese girls performed a lot better than the American girls when it counted. Why can't we just give them credit and leave it at that?

By the way, that same work ethic and the law of numbers in favor of the Chinese is going to impact us in every way imaginable in the next 100 years. We had better get used to seeing them kicking our *** economically, diplomatically, militarily, etc. if our only response is to gripe about their methods as being unfair. We have gotten soft if we think China's gymnastics advantage is that their girls don't have enough time to Facebook and IPOD their lives away.

My guess is that the American girls will perform better in the individual competition because, well, in America we are more focused on individual accomplishment and not so much on team. The Chinese have already won their Super Bowl. Ours is the individual all-around, because it gets a girl on a Wheaties box.

It's a lot more enjoyable watching the games when you take off the rose-colored "USA, USA, USA" glasses and just enjoy all the athletes and their performances. Whatever their training methods and whatever their ages, those Chinese girls were amazing. Try not to let it bug you too much. We'll be seeing a lot more of the same for the next 100 years.

GREAT POST! :notworthy

[RedRage00]

That's because they are government programmed machines. They don't know anything else. This is what their entire lives were built for courtesy of the Chinese government. It is their duty to society.

Kinda like Katy football? :D

[Miss Kitty]

Kinda like Katy football? :D

You finally get it. :)

[drgnbkr]

You finally get it. :)

There you have it folks! Katy is programed to win from birth! What an unusual concept....:D

[KT2000]

Kinda like Katy football? :D

Well, Katy doesn't get to hand pick its participants and the coaches don't weed out the weak links. Those who aren't there for the right reasons weed themselves out. Survival is dependant on the individual, not the system. ;)

[CoveMom]

Well, Katy doesn't get to hand pick its participants and the coaches don't weed out the weak links. Those who aren't there for the right reasons weed themselves out. Survival is dependant on the individual, not the system. ;)

Spoken like a true party, er, team official.....

[RedRage00]

Well, Katy doesn't get to hand pick its participants and the coaches don't weed out the weak links. Those who aren't there for the right reasons weed themselves out. Survival is dependant on the individual, not the system. ;)

Riiiiiiight, keep telling yourself that ;)

lol. I'm just messing with you.

Just like we take our football serious in TX, the Chinese take their gymnastics serious. Those Chinese girls were freakin' awesome and I'd be the first to congratulate them if given the chance. :notworthy

[Miss Kitty]

Riiiiiiight, keep telling yourself that ;)

lol. I'm just messing with you.

Just like we take our football serious in TX, the Chinese take their gymnastics serious. Those Chinese girls were freakin' awesome and I'd be the first to congratulate them if given the chance. :notworthy

You just want to get Oktober one of those cute little red and gold suits they were wearing. ;) :D

[CoveMom]

You just want to get Oktober one of those cute little red and gold suits they were wearing. ;) :D

No, RR00 wants the suit. 't0ber told me he ordered him one for Christmas, but it's a secret....;)

[RedRage00]

LOL! Yeah right!

That is what Okt0ber wears when he goes tubing. :eek:

[twcpfan1]

You people do not feel that a lot of American children are just as abused when from age 3, they are forced into gymnastics, swimming, diving, ballet, dance, cheerleading and beauty contests by their psycho cheerleader moms? Or are we that naive that we think those silicone breasted suburban American moms can never be capable of such abuse. You guys sound like an anti communist pamphlet from the 50's.

[drgnbkr]

You people do not feel that a lot of American children are just as abused when from age 3, they are forced into gymnastics, swimming, diving, ballet, dance, cheerleading and beauty contests by their psycho cheerleader moms? Or are we that naive that we think those silicone breasted suburban American moms can never be capable of such abuse. You guys sound like an anti communist pamphlet from the 50's.

If you are trying to equate American parenting to communism, I'm missing the point...with all of our faults, there is no comparison between the two whatsoever...

[RedRage00]

You people do not feel that a lot of American children are just as abused when from age 3, they are forced into gymnastics, swimming, diving, ballet, dance, cheerleading and beauty contests by their psycho cheerleader moms? Or are we that naive that we think those silicone breasted suburban American moms can never be capable of such abuse. You guys sound like an anti communist pamphlet from the 50's.

You tell 'em! :D

[twcpfan1]

Funny how all of a sudden, we give NBC credibility. :rolleyes:

[Firebird]

It's not news that the Chinese society is more rigid than ours, that individuals are expected to sacrifice for their country. There are a lot of things about Chinese society that would never fly in the USA. They don't have a Bill of Rights, or a Declaration of Independence that focuses on the individual's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

But don't for a minute think the bending and breaking of rules isn't endemic everywhere there is pressure to win (e.g. Bill Belichick, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens).

We can pi$$ and moan about the Chinese system, but at the end of the day, it's undeniable that the Chinese girls performed a lot better than the American girls when it counted. Why can't we just give them credit and leave it at that?

By the way, that same work ethic and the law of numbers in favor of the Chinese is going to impact us in every way imaginable in the next 100 years. We had better get used to seeing them kicking our @$$ economically, diplomatically, militarily, etc. if our only response is to gripe about their methods as being unfair. We have gotten soft if we think China's gymnastics advantage is that their girls don't have enough time to Facebook and IPOD their lives away.

My guess is that the American girls will perform better in the individual competition because, well, in America we are more focused on individual accomplishment and not so much on team. The Chinese have already won their Super Bowl. Ours is the individual all-around, because it gets a girl on a Wheaties box.

It's a lot more enjoyable watching the games when you take off the rose-colored "USA, USA, USA" glasses and just enjoy all the athletes and their performances. Whatever their training methods and whatever their ages, those Chinese girls were amazing. Try not to let it bug you too much. We'll be seeing a lot more of the same for the next 100 years.

All I have to say is....wait and see. We'll see how long the Chinese people are willing to subordinate their entire personal lives and existence to the service of the state as China grows and their people get richer. I don't harbor any delusions that China will become a democracy, but one thing is certain-- China is opening itself to the world and sending people abroad. That is going to have an impact on how the Chinese behave. Already, their burgeoning middle class is behaving more and more like Europeans and Americans in the way they view life....it's all about getting ahead and screw subordination to the state. The new Chinese patriotism reminds me an awful lot of old American patriotism.

You know, one statement struck me last night. One of those little Chinese gymnasts wanted to come home, she was sick of the training. She called her parents and they said, "No, you can't understand what your success means for the family." No mention there about honoring the nation. No, it is the same as in the Soviet and Russian system.....those athletes in the sports gulags were taking one of the few options they had out to improve their lot and their family's lot in life. Eventually, that sports ystem crumbled in Romania and Russia. Once they found out there was a whole world of places where people didn't behave that way, they saw no reason to keep doing it. We heard the same excuses about the "collectivist" mentality of the Russians and East Europeans.

As China gets richer and people find new options to advance in life other than packing their three year old off to a gymnastics boot camp where you only see her once a year, we'll see how many continue to choose that route. I suspect that even now the pool of people willing to do that is growing ever smaller, as I doubt many of those twelve year olds hail from the burgeoning Beijing and Shanghai middle class.....

[twcpfan1]

If you are trying to equate American parenting to communism, I'm missing the point...with all of our faults, there is no comparison between the two whatsoever...

Maybe from your point of view. Try looking at it through the eyes of the 3 year old kid. The system of gov't has nothing to do with my argument.

Did you see Alicia Sacaramone's face? I'd equate that emotion to a Russian or Romanian kid who gave a similar performance back during their communist days.

[Firebird]

You people do not feel that a lot of American children are just as abused when from age 3, they are forced into gymnastics, swimming, diving, ballet, dance, cheerleading and beauty contests by their psycho cheerleader moms? Or are we that naive that we think those silicone breasted suburban American moms can never be capable of such abuse. You guys sound like an anti communist pamphlet from the 50's.

All I have to say is, for better or worse, the parents that do that are making their own choices with no pressure from the United States government. I think that is a huge "better."

[drgnbkr]

Maybe from your point of view. Try looking at it through the eyes of the 3 year old kid. The system of gov't has nothing to do with my argument.

Did you see Alicia Sacaramone's face? I'd equate that emotion to a Russian or Romanian kid who gave a similar performance back during their communist days.

I'm just saying that with all of our faults, I'll stick with our system. The 3 year old girl doesn't have a choice. Alicia did and still does.

[twcpfan1]

All I have to say is, for better or worse, the parents that do that are making their own choices with no pressure from the United States government. I think that is a huge "better."

Again, the ultimate argument here is how the kids are affected. And we seem to arrive at the same conclusion.

And how do we know how these Chinese childrens' lives would have turned out without gymnastics. I've never been to China but I'm willing to guess these kids aren't being pulled from their Woodlands or Southlake like neighborhoods.

[twcpfan1]

I'm just saying that with all of our faults, I'll stick with our system. The 3 year old girl doesn't have a choice. Alicia did and still does.

We don't know if she or anybody has that choice at 3

[drgnbkr]

Uh OH!

US Team Blames Chinese Officials:
The US women's gymnastics team blamed stadium officials Wednesday for distracting one of their athletes who went on to make crucial mistakes that destroyed their gold medal hopes.
China won its showdown with the United States after Alicia Sacramone fell off the balance beam then slipped over during the floor exercise, opening the way for the home team to post a narrow 2.375 point victory.

US team coordinator Martha Karolyi said officials at Beijing's National Indoor Stadium had disrupted Sacramone's preparations for the beam.

"First they called her name up, then they did not even put her name up even though the Chinese had finished ... (it was) totally unusual holding," she said.

"She was mentally prepared and then she had a mental break, then after not doing the job, the beam, on the floor exercise her concentration was bothered."

Karolyi insisted the world champion US team would have won gold if Sacramone had not become unsettled.

But while she was unhappy with stadium officials, she also questioned Sacramone's temperament, suggesting the gymnast was emotionally vulnerable.

"We developed her into a good competitor but originally she was not necessarily extremely easily focussed and aggressive," she said.

A distraught Sacramone was in tears as she recounted her Olympic nightmare.

"I think everybody knows there'll be good days and bad days, I just wish this was a good day for me," she said.

The 20-year-old said she was trying to perform a backward jumping mount onto the beam when she realised the manoeuvre had gone wrong.


"I tried to adjust in the air but I really couldn't save it, she said. "I tried to step back and there was just nothing."

Sacramone said the mistake on the beam in the third round affected her performance on the fourth and final exercise, the floor routine.

"I guess it was just a little bit too hard to get out of that funk, it affected me on floor a little bit," she said.

Sacramone added that she lost concentration because of the delay leading into her beam performance.

"I was just really eager to do my routine and get the show on the road but they did hold me for quite some time and I guess I lost my nerve a little bit," she said.

Asked how long she could maintain focus while waiting to perform her routines, she repled: "Apparently not long enough."

[twcpfan1]

Uh OH!

US Team Blames Chinese Officials:
The US women's gymnastics team blamed stadium officials Wednesday for distracting one of their athletes who went on to make crucial mistakes that destroyed their gold medal hopes.
China won its showdown with the United States after Alicia Sacramone fell off the balance beam then slipped over during the floor exercise, opening the way for the home team to post a narrow 2.375 point victory.

US team coordinator Martha Karolyi said officials at Beijing's National Indoor Stadium had disrupted Sacramone's preparations for the beam.

"First they called her name up, then they did not even put her name up even though the Chinese had finished ... (it was) totally unusual holding," she said.

"She was mentally prepared and then she had a mental break, then after not doing the job, the beam, on the floor exercise her concentration was bothered."

Karolyi insisted the world champion US team would have won gold if Sacramone had not become unsettled.

But while she was unhappy with stadium officials, she also questioned Sacramone's temperament, suggesting the gymnast was emotionally vulnerable.

"We developed her into a good competitor but originally she was not necessarily extremely easily focussed and aggressive," she said.

A distraught Sacramone was in tears as she recounted her Olympic nightmare.

"I think everybody knows there'll be good days and bad days, I just wish this was a good day for me," she said.

The 20-year-old said she was trying to perform a backward jumping mount onto the beam when she realised the manoeuvre had gone wrong.


"I tried to adjust in the air but I really couldn't save it, she said. "I tried to step back and there was just nothing."

Sacramone said the mistake on the beam in the third round affected her performance on the fourth and final exercise, the floor routine.

"I guess it was just a little bit too hard to get out of that funk, it affected me on floor a little bit," she said.

Sacramone added that she lost concentration because of the delay leading into her beam performance.

"I was just really eager to do my routine and get the show on the road but they did hold me for quite some time and I guess I lost my nerve a little bit," she said.

Asked how long she could maintain focus while waiting to perform her routines, she repled: "Apparently not long enough."

Same type of allegations were being made at the Atlanta Olympics against the Americans. I guess they call that home field advantage.

[drgnbkr]

Same type of allegations were being made at the Atlanta Olympics against the Americans. I guess they call that home field advantage.

Sounds like whining to me...

[KT2000]

Did you see Alicia Sacaramone's face? I'd equate that emotion to a Russian or Romanian kid who gave a similar performance back during their communist days.

I gather you've played competitive sports. I'd equate that emotion to any competitor who's ever fallen short of expectations (internal and/or external). That is something anyone who's played a competitive sport can identify with.

Sacramone is a college student at Brown University, so she is clearly very bright. I'd wager to guess she has plenty to accomplish in her future. That's the big difference between her and some of the Russian, Romanian and now Chinese gymansts who don't have access to the same opportunities in life.

[Firebird]

Again, the ultimate argument here is how the kids are affected. And we seem to arrive at the same conclusion.

And how do we know how these Chinese childrens' lives would have turned out without gymnastics. I've never been to China but I'm willing to guess these kids aren't being pulled from their Woodlands or Southlake like neighborhoods.

See my earlier post. I'd be willing to bet that most of the current crop is not coming from the new entreprenurial class in Beijing, Shanghai, and the rest of the wealthy coastline. As the rest of China catches up, I see their pool continuing to shrink. Money changes people. It doesn't make you into a democrat, but it does make you far less willing to grasp at whatever straw the government extends to you.....

[twcpfan1]

I gather you've played competitive sports. I'd equate that emotion to any competitor who's ever fallen short of expectations (internal and/or external). That is something anyone who's played a competitive sport can identify with.

Sacramone is a college student at Brown University, so she is clearly very bright. I'd wager to guess she has plenty to accomplish in her future. That's the big difference between her and some of the Russian, Romanian and now Chinese gymansts who don't have access to the same opportunities in life.

Again I have to ask the question, what opportunities would they have had if Gymnastics was taken away from them altogether? I'm guessing Alicia's parents have the resources these Chinese girls' parents have nowhere close to having, to be able to prepare her for Brown. Sorry, I do not find the comparison relevant.

[twcpfan1]

Sounds like whining to me...

Yeah in both cases.

Bottom line is, both teams ddeserve to be congratulated. Would have been nice for the US to get the gold. But hey, the silver is plenty good.

[Miss Kitty]

If any of you have ever participated in contests that are based on subjective judging, you know how hard it is. Not only from a technically perfect perspective, but on a personal level as well. You can be technically perfect in one judges opinion but not in anothers. Perhaps they didn't like the song you picked, or the uniform you selected. It all comes into play all the while you are dealing with the idea that they just don't like what you did no matter how perfect it was and that can take a toll on your confidence level. So not only do you beat yourself up, you start to try to fix things that aren't really wrong. It is hard to deal with. I admire those who keep going and eventually get to the point where they realize their entire worth is not based on someones opinion.

I agree with KT's thoughts on her facial expressions. The ones I can not forget are the ones our Men's team had night before last. They get up and do near perfect, difficult routines and get 15.0 while China's team actually falls off and gets a 16. The looks on their faces was total deflation yet they kept fighting and believing.

[KT2000]

Again I have to ask the question, what opportunities would they have had if Gymnastics was taken away from them altogether?

In this country, they would have several opportunities. Obviously, you can't say the same for the Chinese because "freedom of choice" is not something you will see much of in a communist society.

[78 Spartan]

Maybe I'm old school, but the appropriate post-game locker room commentary would have been:

KAROLYI: "You have to tip your hat to the Chinese team. They performed extremely well and kept the pressure on us all night long. Our girls gave great effort and showed a lot of character, and I'm proud of each one of them. But I'm most especially proud of Alicia Sacramone, who had a tough night but who is a great kid and who battled hard for her teammates."

MEDIA: "What about the judging?"

KAROLYI: "When I go back and look at the tapes, I'm sure I'll see this thing here and this thing there that might have been scored differently. But overall, it wasn't the judges who made the difference. It was the Chinese team. They were outstanding under pressure and they deserved to win."

MEDIA: "What about the delay before Sacramone's balance beam?"

KAROLYI: "There were delays all night waiting for scores to come up, and every competitor had to deal with it. Alicia made a mistake that was magnified by the situation. She's not making any excuses for it."

MEDIA: "What about the age of the Chinese girls?"

KAROLYI: "Whatever age they were, they were the best team out there tonight. Give them credit. They performed magnificently."

=============

Geez, isn't there a school for post-game interviews? The USOC should hire Crash Davis to go over there and help them with their cliches.

[RedRage00]

Are we really going to argue over this?

It just sounds like a bunch of American excuses on why the Chinese kicked our butts in gymnastics. They won. They were obviously better. Congratulate them and move on.

[twcpfan1]

In this country, they would have several opportunities. Obviously, you can't say the same for the Chinese because "freedom of choice" is not something you will see much of in a communist society.

That's a given. And we should all feel extremely lucky. But I wasn't really looking at the bigger picture as much as just this particular sport with regards to the way both Chinese and American children are prepared for it. Success comes with a very expensive price tag and a great deal of sacrifice. I just have a problem with people thinking that only the Chinese are being forced into making those sacrifices. The only difference is who imposes it.

[KT2000]

That's a given. And we should all feel extremely lucky. But I wasn't really looking at the bigger picture as much as just this particular sport with regards to the way both Chinese and American children are prepared for it. Success comes with a very expensive price tag and a great deal of sacrifice. I just have a problem with people thinking that only the Chinese are being forced into making those sacrifices. The only difference is who imposes it.

John Outlaw can tell you all about knuckle-headed American mommas and daddies. We certainly have our share of those as well as coaches who don't have the best interests in mind. I don't disagree with any of that. But again, we come back to choice. We have the power to say "no, enough is enough."

[twcpfan1]

John Outlaw can tell you all about knuckle-headed American mommas and daddies. We certainly have our share of those as well as coaches who don't have the best interests in mind. I don't disagree with any of that. But again, we come back to choice. We have the power to say "no, enough is enough."

As parents and adults we do, yes. Our children do not quite have that luxury. The tyranny and oppression can come from parents as much as it can from government athletic agencies.

[twcpfan1]

KT, I seem to be disagreeing with you a lot today but I might as well keep going while I'm on a roll.

I can't see how we can even begin to compare the sports we played in HS with Alicia Sacramone's sport. She prepared 20 years for a one 3 minute moment with the weight of an entire country's expectations on her shoulders and for those 3 minutes, she has to be perfect.

I've lost games in HS and they hurt. But I always knew there was next week. I've missed tackles and dropped passes (you play both ways in rugby league) but my teammates had my back. I can't even begin to know what Olympic gymnasts go through.

[KT2000]

What we have heah is a misunderstanding.

I am not attempting to compare the normal American's sporting experience with that of an Olympian. I just pointed out that it is something all competitors can identify with.

Sacramone has a chance to speed the rebound process up by winning a medal in the individual vault competition.

[Firebird]

What we have heah is a misunderstanding.

I am not attempting to compare the normal American's sporting experience with that of an Olympian. I just pointed out that it is something all competitors can identify with.

Sacramone has a chance to speed the rebound process up by winning a medal in the individual vault competition.

"What we've got heah is....a failure to communicate.";)

I agree with you though.

[twcpfan1]

What we have heah is a misunderstanding.

I am not attempting to compare the normal American's sporting experience with that of an Olympian. I just pointed out that it is something all competitors can identify with.

Sacramone has a chance to speed the rebound process up by winning a medal in the individual vault competition.

I knew what you were saying. I still respectfully disagree. That level of disappointment is something that's exclusive to very few and I would guess, none of us. Not even to the USA Basketball team that lost in Greece.

[Firebird]

I knew what you were saying. I still respectfully disagree. That level of disappointment is something that's exclusive to very few and I would guess, none of us. Not even to the USA Basketball team that lost in Greece.

Of course you are going to have a higher level of disappointment on a bigger stage, but I agree with KT....the "agony of defeat" is inherent in any sport and something that anyone who ever took sport very seriously knows well. It's also by a far sight not the cruelest aspect of the sports machines a la China/Eastern bloc.

[twcpfan1]

Of course you are going to have a higher level of disappointment on a bigger stage, but I agree with KT....the "agony of defeat" is inherent in any sport and something that anyone who ever took sport very seriously knows well. It's also by a far sight not the cruelest aspect of the sports machines a la China/Eastern bloc.

I guess that is all I'm saying. The sacrifices Sacaramone has had to make to compete at this level are in many ways similar to what the Chinese kids have had to endure. Hence, the higher level of disappointment when she gave a less than stellar performance.

As far as Eastern Bloc/Chinese sports management goes, it's not something I have first hand knowledge of, so I can't comment.

[twcpfan1]

In any case, what I love most about the Olympics is it gives us a gift 2 weeks to occupy our time while we wait for the College Park - Kingwood game at Reliant :D

[Firebird]

In any case, what I love most about the Olympics is it gives us a gift 2 weeks to occupy our time while we wait for the College Park - Kingwood game at Reliant :D

And for a while there it distracted attention from Obama...

[twcpfan1]

And for a while there it distracted attention from Obama...

They'll sprout back up in the second week when track and field starts. :D

...sorry, couldn't help it :D

[The King]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?

Their is no way those girls are 16, one looked 10 or 11 maybe.

[drgnbkr]

Maybe I'm old school, but the appropriate post-game locker room commentary would have been:

KAROLYI: "You have to tip your hat to the Chinese team. They performed extremely well and kept the pressure on us all night long. Our girls gave great effort and showed a lot of character, and I'm proud of each one of them. But I'm most especially proud of Alicia Sacramone, who had a tough night but who is a great kid and who battled hard for her teammates."

MEDIA: "What about the judging?"

KAROLYI: "When I go back and look at the tapes, I'm sure I'll see this thing here and this thing there that might have been scored differently. But overall, it wasn't the judges who made the difference. It was the Chinese team. They were outstanding under pressure and they deserved to win."

MEDIA: "What about the delay before Sacramone's balance beam?"

KAROLYI: "There were delays all night waiting for scores to come up, and every competitor had to deal with it. Alicia made a mistake that was magnified by the situation. She's not making any excuses for it."

MEDIA: "What about the age of the Chinese girls?"

KAROLYI: "Whatever age they were, they were the best team out there tonight. Give them credit. They performed magnificently."

=============

Geez, isn't there a school for post-game interviews? The USOC should hire Crash Davis to go over there and help them with their cliches.


In reality, Karolyi has been raging about the Chinese being underage the entire olympics and didn't slow down at all post competition....He has been working with these pre-teens all of his life and if any of us are qualified to know by looking, he is...but it's all over now..they won.

[Maroondog]

Their is no way those girls are 16, one looked 10 or 11 maybe.

I told my wife last night that the American girls looked to be about 40 years old compared to the Chinese.
One of the Chinese is still waiting for a tooth to come in, so I can only imagine how old she really is.

[Mhs06]

I told my wife last night that the American girls looked to be about 40 years old compared to the Chinese.
One of the Chinese is still waiting for a tooth to come in, so I can only imagine how old she really is.

She pulled one of these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRH3ruCumt8

[Favpack]

One of the top Chinese girls - Dang Ling Ling - is 4'6 and weighs 68 pounds. A dentist confirmed today some of her gap teeth are because her adult teeth have not grown in yet. Her bio was taken off-line 15 months ago, in which reporters are swearing she was 9 or 10 at that time, and put back on line in early 2008, showing her to now be 15.

Girls can turn 16 during the calendar year of the Olympics.

One word -

SICK.

Oddly enough -the lone Chinese girl to screw up last night was the oldest girl and their captain that fell off the beam. I guess that's because an 11 year old cannot feel pressure like a 19 or 20 year old - and THAT is why you put the little girls in there - they don't know better.

One word -

SICK.

[twcpfan1]

One of the top Chinese girls - Dang Ling Ling - is 4'6 and weighs 68 pounds. A dentist confirmed today some of her gap teeth are because her adult teeth have not grown in yet. Her bio was taken off-line 15 months ago, in which reporters are swearing she was 9 or 10 at that time, and put back on line in early 2008, showing her to now be 15.

Girls can turn 16 during the calendar year of the Olympics.

One word -

SICK.

Oddly enough -the lone Chinese girl to screw up last night was the oldest girl and their captain that feel off the team. I guess that's because an 11 year old cannot feel pressure like a 19 or 20 year old - and THAT is why you put the little girls in there - they don't know better.

One word -

SICK.

Do you think we should put an asterisk by Nadia Comaneci's and Tara Lipinski's name now because it's been determined in later years that they had an unfair advantage, and that their countries allowing them to compete is now considered a 'sick' act?

[Favpack]

Do you think we should put an asterisk by Nadia Comaneci's and Tara Lipinski's name now because it's been determined in later years that they had an unfair advantage, and that their countries allowing them to compete is now considered a 'sick' act?

Part of the sickness of course is lying. I believe Tara was 15 and Nadia was 14, both were legal ages at that time. I think there's a huge difference between 12 and 16, well beyond 4 years.

But, yes, you're also brainwashing 3 and 4 year old girls into believing they won't ever see their family again if they don't practice gymnastics 8 hours a day. Maybe they did that with Nadia too, I don't know.

[tayb]

New media report on ESPN that I just read...

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/gymnastics/news/story?id=3534544

BEIJING -- Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government's news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal this week.

[+] Enlarge
He Kexin

Harry How/Getty Images

A report in China's official Xinhua news agency nine months ago listed gymnast He Kexin as being 13 years old. But she told reporters Wednesday that her real age is 16.

In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of "10 big new stars" who made a splash at China's Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games. In the final, "this little girl" pulled off a difficult release move on the bars known as the Li Na, named for another Chinese gymnast, Xinhua said in the report, which appeared on one of its Web sites, www.hb.xinhuanet.com

The Associated Press found the Xinhua report on the site Thursday morning and saved a copy of the page. Later that afternoon, the Web site was still working but the page was no longer accessible. Sports editors at the state-run news agency would not comment for publication.

If the age reported by Xinhua was correct, that would have meant He was too young to be on the Chinese team that beat the United States on Wednesday and clinched China's first women's team Olympic gold in gymnastics. She is also a favorite for gold in Monday's uneven bars final.

Yang was also on Wednesday's winning team. Questions have also been raised about her age and that of a third team member, Jiang Yuyuan.

Gymnasts have to be 16 during the Olympic year to be eligible for the Games. He's birthday is listed as Jan. 1, 1992.

Chinese authorities insist that all three are old enough to compete. He herself told reporters after Wednesday's final that "my real age is 16. I don't pay any attention to what everyone says."

Zhang Hongliang, an official with China's gymnastics delegation at the Games, said Thursday the differing ages which have appeared in Chinese media reports had not been checked in advance with the gymnastics federation.

"It's definitely a mistake," Zhang said of the Xinhua report, speaking in a telephone interview. "Never has any media outlet called me to check the athletes' ages."

Asked whether the federation had changed their ages to make them eligible, Zhang said: "We are a sports department. How would we have the ability to do that?"

"We already explained this very clearly. There's no need to discuss this thing again."

The International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) has said repeatedly that a passport is the "accepted proof of a gymnast's eligibility," and that He and China's other gymnasts have presented ones that show they are age eligible. The IOC also checked the girls' passports and deemed them valid.

A May 23 story in the China Daily newspaper, the official English-language paper of the Chinese government, said He was 14. The story was later corrected to list her as 16.

"This is not a USAG issue," said Steve Penny, president of USA Gymnastics. "The FIG and the IOC are the proper bodies to handle this."


I dunno. Personally I think the rule is kind of stupid. If you can compete you can compete, age shouldn't matter. The thing that upsets me is that it IS a rule and if every other country out there is obeying by it then they should be obeying by it as well. China doesn't get a free ticket just because they want to win so badly their dictatorship backs their altered passports and they are hosting the Olympics.

My two cents.

[lonny23]

I can't watch the Chinese girls teams. This is borderline sick.

These girls are barely 12, they were ripped from their own homes at 3 and sent to the Gymnastics machine where they work out 10 hours a day, every day (Tim Daggett's words, not mine) -- and now I'm supposed to do something other than be sick at this whole thing? Do you applaud or look the other way?
They never should've given the Olympics to China. That country is horrible and to this day, I hate it as much as Russia.

[t-long20]

New media report on ESPN that I just read...

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/gymnastics/news/story?id=3534544




I dunno. Personally I think the rule is kind of stupid. If you can compete you can compete, age shouldn't matter. The thing that upsets me is that it IS a rule and if every other country out there is obeying by it then they should be obeying by it as well. China doesn't get a free ticket just because they want to win so badly their dictatorship backs their altered passports and they are hosting the Olympics.

My two cents.

Ypu beat me to it, I made a thread about it.

[STJL41]

They never should've given the Olympics to China. That country is horrible and to this day, I hate it as much as Russia.

Well then I guess you are really looking forward to the 2014 Games in Sochi :D

[78 Spartan]

My guess is that the American girls will perform better in the individual competition because, well, in America we are more focused on individual accomplishment and not so much on team. The Chinese have already won their Super Bowl. Ours is the individual all-around, because it gets a girl on a Wheaties box.

Wow, sometimes I amaze myself. I am getting close to becoming a legend in my own mind.