Another 4a vs. 5a Thread

[c-lisle]

Well this topic has a whole new meaning to me now that my Lobos are 4a. So I guess my question is: How would the top 25 4a teams fare against the top 25 5a teams. I have always thought that the best in 4a could hang with the best in 5a but the fact that Westlake handed the D1 4a state champs in Lake Travis their only loss last season makes me doubt that. I dont think Westlake was even a top program in 5a last season.

[farmerfan]

The top 4A teams can more than hold their own with the top 5A teams.
Over the last 20 years that is the division Carroll struggled most in.;)
Also, DD and I were talking yesterday and we both agree that we would have loved to see Ennis and Lufkin play back in 2001, that Ennis team was something special as was the 98 Stephenville team. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see around a .500 record if you paired the top 20-25 4A teams up against the top 20-25 5A teams.

[LeanderLions3033]

Well this topic has a whole new meaning to me now that my Lobos are 4a. So I guess my question is: How would the top 25 4a teams fare against the top 25 5a teams. I have always thought that the best in 4a could hang with the best in 5a but the fact that Westlake handed the D1 4a state champs in Lake Travis their only loss last season makes me doubt that. I dont think Westlake was even a top program in 5a last season.

That loss was more of a mental thing for Lake traivs i think. The austin american statesman had dubbed Lake Travis as the new Westlake, and i think the real Westlake had took it personally. And considering the wealth of the two schools, Lake Travis' surge in talent and wins, and when you consider the famous faces that live in Lakeway (lake travis high schools main neighborhood) and Westlake, this has turned into a very heated rivalry. Had lake travis played Westlake again later in the season, and if the statesman didnt give Westlake bulliten board material, i think Lake traivs wins that game going away. Towards the end of the season, Lake Travis' offense just turned into a machine that i would rank up there with the best in the nation.

[Eagle Watcher]

Consider the the 4A champion year before last, Alamo Heights (4A) only season loss was to Georgetown (5A) who could not even manage a playoff spot. Some very special 4A ranked schools might be able to make some noise in 5A, but I think those schools are few and far between.

[WestlakeTech]

Well this topic has a whole new meaning to me now that my Lobos are 4a. So I guess my question is: How would the top 25 4a teams fare against the top 25 5a teams. I have always thought that the best in 4a could hang with the best in 5a but the fact that Westlake handed the D1 4a state champs in Lake Travis their only loss last season makes me doubt that. I dont think Westlake was even a top program in 5a last season.
Yeah, even I'll admit that we were far from being a top program.

That loss was more of a mental thing for Lake traivs i think. The austin american statesman had dubbed Lake Travis as the new Westlake, and i think the real Westlake had took it personally. And considering the wealth of the two schools, Lake Travis' surge in talent and wins, and when you consider the famous faces that live in Lakeway (lake travis high schools main neighborhood) and Westlake, this has turned into a very heated rivalry. Had lake travis played Westlake again later in the season, and if the statesman didnt give Westlake bulliten board material, i think Lake traivs wins that game going away. Towards the end of the season, Lake Travis' offense just turned into a machine that i would rank up there with the best in the nation.
Honestly, I don't think that Statesman thing had anything to do with it. But not being a player, I wouldn't know.

Imo, there's no reason 4A can't be expected to beat 5A. I'm actually kinda worried about the Lake Travis game this year. 4A shouldn't be underestimated.

[d-train]

Lake Travis, Alamo Heights and Lamar Consolidated all lost to average 5A schools. The fact is that they do not have the quality depth to beat those teams. 2006 LaMarque beats Pearland, and Trinity anihilates Waco. LaMarque beats Waco in 4A D2 game. Best 4A would not beat best 5A!

[bowiedawgs01]

2005 Highland Park

[AHSeagles]

The top 4A teams can more than hold their own with the top 5A teams.
Over the last 20 years that is the division Carroll struggled most in.;)
Also, DD and I were talking yesterday and we both agree that we would have loved to see Ennis and Lufkin play back in 2001, that Ennis team was something special as was the 98 Stephenville team. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see around a .500 record if you paired the top 20-25 4A teams up against the top 20-25 5A teams.

That 98 Stephenville team might not have beaten the top 5A teams, but they would have definitely given them all they could handle.

[ftballin11]

That 98 Stephenville team might not have beaten the top 5A teams, but they would have definitely given them all they could handle.

Could thye hang with 98' Katy and Midland Lee.

I think there are certain programs that could do pretty well. But if the 4A #1 vs 5A #1 played each other and it was like that all the way down to 25. 5A would win 80% of they.

[AHSeagles]

Could thye hang with 98' Katy and Midland Lee.

I think there are certain programs that could do pretty well. But if the 4A #1 vs 5A #1 played each other and it was like that all the way down to 25. 5A would win 80% of they.

I don't know anything about the 98 Katy team, but no one was going to beat 98 or 99 Midland Lee while Benson was there. There was no stopping Cedric Benson in high school. However, the 98 Stephenville team could have given them one heck of a game in that they could have gone back and forth scoring. I wanna say that Stephenville team set state records for total yards and scoring. That would have been an interesting game.

[farmerfan]

Could thye hang with 98' Katy and Midland Lee.

I think there are certain programs that could do pretty well. But if the 4A #1 vs 5A #1 played each other and it was like that all the way down to 25. 5A would win 80% of they.

More than hang with them. I firmly believe that Stephenville could have beat anybody in the state that year.
Along with 95 Marcus and the 02,05 Carroll teams they are the best offense I have ever seen.

[ftballin11]

More than hang with them. I firmly believe that Stephenville could have beat anybody in the state that year.
Along with 95 Marcus and the 02,05 Carroll teams they are the best offense I have ever seen.

I understand where your coming from But when i see the 4a champion Lamar get beat by Mayde creek it makes me skeptical.

Or when copperas cove could never do it in 5a but win state their first year in 4a.

I Just dont buy it. They can beat some talented 5 a teams but i dont think they could hang with the traditional powers like SLC Katy and Trinity.

[farmerfan]

I understand where your coming from But when i see the 4a champion Lamar get beat by Mayde creek it makes me skeptical.

Or when copperas cove could never do it in 5a but win state their first year in 4a.

I Just dont buy it. They can beat some talented 5 a teams but i dont think they could hang with the traditional powers like SLC Katy and Trinity.

CC has never won state. They got beat by Heights I believe in the finals and got beat by Lamar last year.
You also have to remember you are going on one year, one coujld go back to 99 when Garland won a state title beating an undefeated Katy team in the Dome. The only blemish on that Garland record was to 4A HP.

[ftballin11]

CC has never won state. They got beat by Heights I believe in the finals and got beat by Lamar last year.
You also have to remember you are going on one year, one coujld go back to 99 when Garland won a state title beating an undefeated Katy team in the Dome. The only blemish on that Garland record was to 4A HP.

Katy wasnt undefeated. They lost early to Baytown Sterling

Highland Park is one of those programs that can. They can beat teams that rely on talent such as garland with their coaching. Highland Park could compete in 5a. Do i think they would be an elite power that they are in 4A, No.

[farmerfan]

Katy wasnt undefeated. They lost early to Baytown Sterling

Highland Park is one of those programs that can. They can beat teams that rely on talent such as garland with their coaching. Highland Park could compete in 5a. Do i think they would be an elite power that they are in 4A, No.

Who's to say they are an elite power in 4A?
One state title in the last 60 years surely doesnt say that now.:eek:

[ftballin11]

I don't know anything about the 98 Katy team, but no one was going to beat 98 or 99 Midland Lee while Benson was there. There was no stopping Cedric Benson in high school. However, the 98 Stephenville team could have given them one heck of a game in that they could have gone back and forth scoring. I wanna say that Stephenville team set state records for total yards and scoring. That would have been an interesting game.


Katy was the undefeated #1 ranked team in the state in 98'. I think they might have had an answer for Benson as a sophmore. Didnt Lee lose to Westlake in 98' or was that a different year.

[ftballin11]

Who's to say they are an elite power in 4A?
One state title in the last 60 years surely doesnt say that now.:eek:

lol, your right theyre the Northshore of 4a.:D

[farmerfan]

Katy was the undefeated #1 ranked team in the state in 98'. I think they might have had an answer for Benson as a sophmore. Didnt Lee lose to Westlake in 98' or was that a different year.

I believe Lee lost to Abilene Cooper in 98.
They were perfect in 99 and lost to West Monroe, LA and Odessa High in 2000. They beat Westlake in the 2000 state championship game.

[ftballin11]

I believe Lee lost to Abilene Cooper in 98.
They were perfect in 99 and lost to West Monroe, LA and Odessa High in 2000. They beat Westlake in the 2000 state championship game.

Thanks.

[caesarscott]

. They beat Westlake in the 2000 state championship game.i was at that game. during half time their band spelled out CHAPS. then added an M to make it CHAMPS. maybe they should have spelled out CHUMPS instead as Lee rolled in the 2nd half.

[ftballin11]

i was at that game. during half time their band spelled out CHAPS. then added an M to make it CHAMPS. maybe they should have spelled out CHUMPS instead as Lee rolled in the 2nd half.

After what just happened to P-ville in the second half of this years title, i wouldnt call westlake chumps they have a title or to.

[d-train]

Westlake has 1 title and mucho title game losses.

[d-train]

More than hang with them. I firmly believe that Stephenville could have beat anybody in the state that year.
Along with 95 Marcus and the 02,05 Carroll teams they are the best offense I have ever seen.
They didn't have to play everyone. Split title teams skip over a bunch of good teams. I'll never say any split teams was the best ever, its still 85 Jack Yates, that set all the records for offense and defense and beat everyone down, including Mojo 37-0!

[farmerfan]

They didn't have to play everyone. Split title teams skip over a bunch of good teams. I'll never say any split teams was the best ever, its still 85 Jack Yates, that set all the records for offense and defense and beat everyone down, including Mojo 37-0!

Who said anythingabout best teams ever?
Simply stated offensive football teams and yes they remain one of the very best offensive football teams I have ever seen.
FWIW, in class 4A it didn't matter about the split classes, Grapevine was not going to come anywhere close to beating Stephenville that year.

[BandidoNB]

Lake Travis, Alamo Heights and Lamar Consolidated all lost to average 5A schools. The fact is that they do not have the quality depth to beat those teams. 2006 LaMarque beats Pearland, and Trinity anihilates Waco. LaMarque beats Waco in 4A D2 game. Best 4A would not beat best 5A!

I think early season losses by Lake Travis, Alamo Heights, and Lamar dont really mean all that much. Kerrville Tivy (4A) soundly defeated Judson (state finalist), but that doesnt mean Tivy was still better than Judson at the end of the season. Im sure the 4A state champions mentioned above were at a different level of play at the end of the season.

[Football4life]

I'm sure that there are a couple of years were the best 4a team was better than the best 5a, but most of the time we would all agree that the top 5a team is better than the top 4a team.

[grayowl60]

Garland played Ennis in non district, 03 and 04. Ennis was state 4A champion one of those years. It was an elite 4A team vs a very good 5A. Garland won both games, very good games. The difference I saw was depth and size. High powered Harrell designed spread offense vs old school wing T. Garland ran fresh players in all night and in the 4th qtr Ennis was spent. Harrell was out coached in both games also IMO. The point is numbers of available players is a factor, and top to bottom, year in year out 5A is MUCH stronger with an exception from time to time.

[Mustangman21]

Who said anythingabout best teams ever?
Simply stated offensive football teams and yes they remain one of the very best offensive football teams I have ever seen.
FWIW, in class 4A it didn't matter about the split classes, Grapevine was not going to come anywhere close to beating Stephenville that year.


I would give us a shot, but ville would probably win. Only reason, we entered the playoffs with a 5-4 record and just hit a hot streak at the right time. Miss the good ol' days of gvine football now its just we're just a bunch of underachievers. lol

[c-lisle]

anyone know if there is a list out there of 4a/5a matchups this season? In East Texas there are these matchups:

Whitehouse/Garland Naaman Forest - GNF takes it. If I remeber correctly they hav ebeen pretty good of late.

John Tyler/Texas High - JT takes this one. JT will be a little better and they are 3-1 in this series.

John Tyler/Whichita Falls Rider - Whichita Falls Rider takes it. WF is one of the top 4a programs.

Longview/Allen - Allen. Hate to pick against my Lobos but too many question marks on offense right now.

Longview/Tyler Lee - Longview in a close one. Lee I think is a much improved team but Longview wins at home.

Longview/Lufkin - Longview in another close one. Our offense should find itself by this game and we win at home. It will be a tough one though.

Lufkin/Nacogdoches - Lufkin always wins this one.

[d-train]

I think early season losses by Lake Travis, Alamo Heights, and Lamar dont really mean all that much. Kerrville Tivy (4A) soundly defeated Judson (state finalist), but that doesnt mean Tivy was still better than Judson at the end of the season. Im sure the 4A state champions mentioned above were at a different level of play at the end of the season.
LaMarque won 3 straight titles in mid 90s, basically not losing to 4A schools, yet could not beat JT and JT didn't win any titles the years they beat LaMarque. To much talent, to many numbers.

[SV61]

And for what it's worth.................

Smithson Valley, in it's first year of 5A competition, made it all the way to the State Final. The year before, they were 4A. Yes, they lost to Westlake early in their innagural 5A season. Guess what? They had an opportunity to replay them later in the same year, and beat them resoundly. SV also had to beat SA Madison AND Katy that year, all after being a scrawny little 4A school the year before.

Oh, and the opponent in that State Final that SV lost? Another red headed step child from the land of ho hum 4A.

Southlake Carrol.

Good 4A schools can play with good 5A schools.

I think a couple of 3A schools might surprise some of you boys!

[farmerfan]

LaMarque won 3 straight titles in mid 90s, basically not losing to 4A schools, yet could not beat JT and JT didn't win any titles the years they beat LaMarque. To much talent, to many numbers.

Let's not mention though how they owned Ball and even beat the Toros the year they got beat by Westlake in the semis in 94. La Marque didnt even win state that year.
Back in 97 I believe they played JT a tight game, the same JT who went to the state semis.
They also beat Pearland just a year ago and Pearland gave Shore a pretty tough game in the playoffs too.

[d-train]

[quote=SV61;839933]And for what it's worth.................

Smithson Valley, in it's first year of 5A competition, made it all the way to the State Final. The year before, they were 4A. Yes, they lost to Westlake early in their innagural 5A season. Guess what? They had an opportunity to replay them later in the same year, and beat them resoundly. SV also had to beat SA Madison AND Katy that year, all after being a scrawny little 4A school the year before.

Oh, and the opponent in that State Final that SV lost? Another red headed step child from the land of ho hum 4A.

Southlake Carrol.

Good 4A schools can play with good 5A schools.

I think a couple of 3A schools might surprise some of you boys![/
Westlake lost to JT their first year in 5A finals. Good 4A teams can play with 5A teams, but they do not usually beat them.