Save Money, leave the bands and drill teams at home.

[charger85]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

[trojanbacker]

Would the savings surpass lost revenue from lower ticket sales, concession sales, etc.? What those groups add to the game atmosphere more than pays for gasoline costs, in my opinion.

[drgnbkr]

I thought Monet was dead

[dada]

band and drill team= band and drill team parents=more tickets....you'd take a helluva loss if you left all those kids at home.

[chhspantherfan]

I thought Monet was dead

Actually the band and the drill team are the closest thing to Monet on a Friday night. ;)

[rocketgrl94]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

all we need is hybrid buses thats all:D

[LoneRocket]

band and drill team= band and drill team parents=more tickets....you'd take a helluva loss if you left all those kids at home.

All you need is two turn tables and a jam master.

[mojoguy]

Our school district is doing this already, although our trips are a little further down the road. It sucks. Don't do it. It's just better to get the student body involved as much as possible in my opinion.

[charger85]

Would the savings surpass lost revenue from lower ticket sales, concession sales, etc.? What those groups add to the game atmosphere more than pays for gasoline costs, in my opinion.

Actually yes. Home team band and drill team parents still come to see their kids play. And away does not get ticket revenue anyway.

So the net savings is 100%

[charger85]

Suddenly understand the monet comments. Sorry about the typo.

[charger85]

band and drill team= band and drill team parents=more tickets....you'd take a helluva loss if you left all those kids at home.

Actually no loss at all. At home games your band is still performing. So no lost money there. At away games you do not get ticket money any way.

[trojanbacker]

Leaving key segments of your study body out of the equation results in fewer tickets being sold, regardless of who gets the income. Maybe at your school band/drill team/whatever parents don't attend out of town games, but they do at Trinity. I would think that decreased attendance is not going to help anyone.

[reed35]

That would lose the whole high school atmosphere which is pure and fun.

That is like leaving the half of the football team at home because they are not starters

Exxon made 34 billion or so in profit, let them fund it.

[chhspantherfan]

Suddenly understand the monet comments. Sorry about the typo.

A good sense of humor comes in handy around here. :D

[bigdaddydog]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.
This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

Counte De Monet.

While you are right about saving money, Regarding effect on the game, you have obviously not been to an Allen Game. ;)

I do like the Hybrid Bus Idea though!!: But I don't see how they would save the district money? :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3090/2711779480_01910c51b7.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2710968515_1dd63ed8bc.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/2710968613_2269000dbe.jpg

[alwaysthrash_09]

Doing this would lose the entire game feel. Like Getting hype from the band. Or scoring a touchdown when the other teams band is by your sideline it just feels great

[wesaxman34]

You live in Texas, you should know the importance of the cheerleaders, band, and drill team in HS football games. I'm going to be a little more bias and emotional on this subject because I was in the marching band...

Now if we are talking about ridiculous road games then I agree, leave the band etc. at home for their sake and for money's sake. I know of one or two instances where we didn't travel to road games because they were too far away.

HS football is not just about football, believe it or not. It is about the student body, the parents, the alumni, the band, the cheerleaders, and the drill team. IMO, the entire game experience will be gone without the supporting organizations. All three of them provide half-time entertainment on top of the "in game" support, which is another reason why HS Texas football is so unique.

I realize we are talking about away games, but to say these organizations don't matter and have no input to the importance of football games is truly absurd. Unfortunately, with gas prices sailing through the roof, money is an issue. Simply leaving the all of the band and cheerleaders at home all the time will destroy the liveliness, excitement, and extra support from the games. Even schools with a good traveling fan base would miss out on their supporting student body organizations.

[DragonFan0316]

I hate to admit it but the band and drill teams have become part of the event for me. We have talented kids. This is the only way I will see them preform. We do need to shorten games but in my opinion the band and the drill teams play on.

[tmcran]

I suppose we could just have the two teams play and exclude everyone else.

1. would reduce all the fuel for fans that travel
2. the concessions stands would not be needed
3. improvements to the stadiums could be restricted only to the field and dressing rooms. No stands, parking lots and etc.
4. less accidents due to fans traveling to and from games
5. perhaps with no interest or support from fans and students football could be dropped.

Just think of all the money that could be saved. If it is all about the money!:D

[texan_75010]

As a band parent, I pay almost $1,000 a year for my kid. So if he doesnt march, then there is no need for high priced uniforms, morning and afternoon practice, summer practice or all of those band directors. You also dont need marching instruments like the drums, tubas and such that have been modified so they can be carried on to the field.

So if my $1,000 bucks is not covering my kid to go to games.....what the hell is it covering???? And if you dont get my $1,000 bucks, then what are you saving????

What about all the frickin fund raisers they have all year where they extort more cash out of us parents? And who is going to man the consessions at the home games?

The cheerleaders have to pay $2,000 per kid, drill team somewhere in the middle between band and cheering.

So if that money is not going towards games....what is it going towards? What money are you going to really be saving when you cut that cash cow off?

In the two years I have been a band parent, we have raised tens of thousands of dollars and donated countless hours of volunteer work to much more than just band activities.

You really want to cut that revenue stream off?

[jbusch]

I hate to admit it but the band and drill teams have become part of the event for me. We have talented kids. This is the only way I will see them preform. We do need to shorten games but in my opinion the band and the drill teams play on. Don't they participate in band concerts and competitions in SL?

[DragonFan0316]

Don't they participate in band concerts and competitions in SL?

Sure but I don't go to those. I stick primarily to football and baseball.

[TulsaHale74]

I suppose we could just have the two teams play and exclude everyone else.

1. would reduce all the fuel for fans that travel
2. the concessions stands would not be needed
3. improvements to the stadiums could be restricted only to the field and dressing rooms. No stands, parking lots and etc.
4. less accidents due to fans traveling to and from games
5. perhaps with no interest or support from fans and students football could be dropped.

Just think of all the money that could be saved. If it is all about the money!:D
Number 5 is a little drastic. How about trying ALL games for ALL teams be home games?:cool::D

[DrEdward]

I hate to admit it but the band and drill teams have become part of the event for me. We have talented kids. This is the only way I will see them preform. We do need to shorten games but in my opinion the band and the drill teams play on.

We wait all winter, spring, and summer for fall football to come around. Then for most of the state, we have ten weeks of high school football. For the lucky ones, there will be six more weeks, but the numbers are cut in half each week after the first 11. I would argue that we don't need to shorten the game at all. For the most part, the bands and drill teams are under control - sort of at the half. But there is always some band during season that feels the urge to go 20 minutes by itself. Can't blame the bands for wanting to practice their competition shows and I would miss the halftime performances. However, I do appreciate the innovative thinking behind the posting.

By the way, Chuck Monet says "hi."

[DragonBand06]

You haven't thought about this. What about the ticket revenue you will lose from the opposing team's parents? I mean, as a band kid, my parents always came to the away games we played. Therefore when you play the home games you will actually be losing money from tickets you sold to the OTHER team. Plus, texan_75010 is right. There's a heck of a lot more to band than just showing up to play the games. Students undergo months of training and after-school practice to make the show great for Friday night. Do we perform in competitions? Yes. But by removing the band from HS football you destroy the atmosphere and are basically telling a bunch of kids that their hard work doesn't count for anything.

[DragonFan0316]

As a band parent, I pay almost $1,000 a year for my kid. So if he doesnt march, then there is no need for high priced uniforms, morning and afternoon practice, summer practice or all of those band directors. You also dont need marching instruments like the drums, tubas and such that have been modified so they can be carried on to the field.

So if my $1,000 bucks is not covering my kid to go to games.....what the hell is it covering???? And if you dont get my $1,000 bucks, then what are you saving????

What about all the frickin fund raisers they have all year where they extort more cash out of us parents? And who is going to man the consessions at the home games?

The cheerleaders have to pay $2,000 per kid, drill team somewhere in the middle between band and cheering.

So if that money is not going towards games....what is it going towards? What money are you going to really be saving when you cut that cash cow off?

In the two years I have been a band parent, we have raised tens of thousands of dollars and donated countless hours of volunteer work to much more than just band activities.

You really want to cut that revenue stream off?

Yikes!!:eek: I was hoping to be conciliatory before we set off one of the holyier than thow band parents. Now I am going to take my pulse before I address the all of the revenue comment. If you remove the football teams how many people would come? Be real band folks. We are glad you come. We are not glad you buy up all the season tickets and leave at halftime but that is another issue.

The band isn't costing anyone anything. They raise their own money and pay for their own busses. They also draw al lot of revenue to the game.

Bands are not going away. Their kids deserve a showcase and most are pretty good. Let's try to play nice wht the rest of the life of this thread.:)

[DrEdward]

You haven't thought about this. What about the ticket revenue you will lose from the opposing team's parents? I mean, as a band kid, my parents always came to the away games we played. Therefore when you play the home games you will actually be losing money from tickets you sold to the OTHER team. Plus, texan_75010 is right. There's a heck of a lot more to band than just showing up to play the games. Students undergo months of training and after-school practice to make the show great for Friday night. Do we perform in competitions? Yes. But by removing the band from HS football you destroy the atmosphere and are basically telling a bunch of kids that their hard work doesn't count for anything.

You're now at A&M, right? Does the Aggie Band make every road trip? As the answer is no, I don't think anyone would believe, with the possible expception of some horns and red raider fans, that the Aggie Band is useless, simply because they didn't perform at all away games. Don't take this too seriously, as you know I support the band kids as well. I don't think anyone really wants to remove the bands from high school football. But with diesel prices being what they are and considering the size of transporting an army the size of Carroll's band, drill team and cheerleaders, not to mention the football team, some measures may indeed need to be undertaken. Now if we can just get a bunch more of the band parents and drill team parent to actually stay for the whole game....:rolleyes:

[LionVarsityCheer]

We are not glad you buy up all the season tickets and leave at halftime but that is another issue.


AGREED.
If you wanna come to away games, with season tickets, to watch only your trumpet player...then I don't think there's room to talk in this thread. :rolleyes:

but I love the band. drill team, not so much...but I vote for band at the away games! I agree the routines should be shorter though.

[trojanbacker]

Hell hath no fury like a band parent scorned.

[jrock210]

Save money leave the cheerleaders home!
No one listens to them! Sorry you may be a sport (I'll give you that) but you have no effect on pumping fans up.

At Judson the crowd starts its own cheers and does it's own thing. I know the one thing that gets on my nerves is the fact that all the guys chant "D D D" in a manly voice when the Defense makes a big stop and than you hear this little cheerleader in her high pitched voice "D D D" OMG it doesn't work!

Give us a stereo system to play and that will be ok for before the game but during the game the band (who deserves major props) pumps the crowd up and inspires the players I've been told by football players awhile back ago!

[EagleDude73]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

Welcome to the boards. Nice first post. :rolleyes::eek::p:D

[shooter]

I for one kind of agree. Now don't get me wrong I love the band but there would be some huge pluses to this plan. Let’s remember we are not eliminating the bands we are only saying no more Band road trips, right? So in essence the High School games would become more like college games with a home field advantage. Sure the 5 away games each year would be in very hostile environments but think of the thrill of victory when it seems like the whole stadium is against you and you come out on top. Think of how much an undefeated season would mean.

Here are some points you should think about. With the price of gas where it is I would suspect that visitors side stands across the state will take a hit this coming season. Mom and Dad that use to travel to every game may be rethinking the EVERY part of this plan. Maybe every HOME game and a few away games (the one's that are close). Now in my neighborhood this will not apply so much as away games and home games for NEISD schools are in the same place. So Home or away only dictate if the sun is in your eyes the first quarter or not. I have seen games at Comalander where the away stands are twice as full as the Home side (see Roosevelt at home vs Reagan away).

Look at Lufkin. The teams that have to come to Abe to play are all a good Drive in the car. Lufkin has had the foresight to not expand its stadium but expand its home piece of the pie. Starting this year the "Home Side" is all reserve seating. The visitor side is all GA. So Lufkin fans wanting to see the game on a GA ticket will have to sit on the visitor side of the field. I call this foresight because I think Lufkin realizes that (1) there home side is too small, and having an overflow Home side crowd when there are 2000 empty seats in the stadium (all on the visitor side) makes no since. (2) Price of gas is going to keep some of their visiting team fans at home anyway so why not give your fans a place to sit.

Last year I attended the madison/weslaco playoff game in weslaco. Madison was bringing the band and all but Westlco sold tickets on the Visitors side to Weslaco (or should I say Valley) Football Fans. It was an incredible atmosphere. The Madison band and fans had basically two sections of stands and were surrounded on both sides by a see of purple. The stadium was crazy every time Westlaco scored. Sure some of the things said at the players were not nice but Weslaco defiantly had a huge HOME field advantage not so much because Madison Band was not there but more because Weslaco was not going to let any seats go unfilled.

Now back to the bands. While most Football parents/coaches/players all seem to complain halftime is too long it seems Band parents and Drill parents think Halftime is too short and would love to see more of the “Performance.” So here is a compromise. Right now half time runs about 30 min, 15 min for each band and dance team to perform. What if we shortened half time to 20min (making football parents/coaches and players happy) but the Home team Band and drill team would have that whole time to use to their hearts desire. Band could do more of their competition routine and Dance could do two songs not just one. Granted instead of 10 games each year Band would only perform in 5 games but I think that has it's advantages as well. Another issue is games going late into the evening. With the advent of the forward pass in High School football games are getting longer and longer. Shorten halftime and the games end sooner. I don’t have enough fingers to count how many times I have seen a band squander their allotted 15min with “setting up” and announcing the 45 different officers, squad-leaders and gold star winning performances on the PA before they even play a note. With this plan you have more time each time you perform just not as many times to perform.

I think while you would see a decrease for sure in visitor side fans as the Band and drill parents would most likely not show up to the away games I think you would see an increase in Home fans. One because now Mom and Dad only have 5 opportunities to see the Band and Drill they would not miss any performances at home. Two the atmosphere at Home would be so much better and the fans would feel like they were more apart of the game the repeat customers would be back each week as the entertainment value would go up.

Just some food for thought but I for one think, not only would you save the cash on gas and travel but you would also increase the value of the final product on the field with the Band and Drill not traveling. To take it a step further UIL could limit each football team to a travel squad like college. Maybe a 45 player travel squad with an unlimited amount home squad. Now you will really have an US against the world game plan going into that type of environment.

I’m not advocating playing a football with out a BAND but maybe now is a good time to rethink if TWO BANDS is ONE TOO MANY!!

[EagleDude73]

I for one kind of agree. Now don't get me wrong I love the band but there would be some huge pluses to this plan. Let’s remember we are not eliminating the bands we are only saying no more Band road trips, right? So in essence the High School games would become more like college games with a home field advantage. Sure the 5 away games each year would be in very hostile environments but think of the thrill of victory when it seems like the whole stadium is against you and you come out on top. Think of how much an undefeated season would mean.

Here are some points you should think about. With the price of gas where it is I would suspect that visitors side stands across the state will take a hit this coming season. Mom and Dad that use to travel to every game may be rethinking the EVERY part of this plan. Maybe every HOME game and a few away games (the one's that are close). Now in my neighborhood this will not apply so much as away games and home games for NEISD schools are in the same place. So Home or away only dictate if the sun is in your eyes the first quarter or not. I have seen games at Comalander where the away stands are twice as full as the Home side (see Roosevelt at home vs Reagan away).

Look at Lufkin. The teams that have to come to Abe to play are all a good Drive in the car. Lufkin has had the foresight to not expand its stadium but expand its home piece of the pie. Starting this year the "Home Side" is all reserve seating. The visitor side is all GA. So Lufkin fans wanting to see the game on a GA ticket will have to sit on the visitor side of the field. I call this foresight because I think Lufkin realizes that (1) there home side is too small, and having an overflow Home side crowd when there are 2000 empty seats in the stadium (all on the visitor side) makes no since. (2) Price of gas is going to keep some of their visiting team fans at home anyway so why not give your fans a place to sit.

Last year I attended the madison/weslaco playoff game in weslaco. Madison was bringing the band and all but Westlco sold tickets on the Visitors side to Weslaco (or should I say Valley) Football Fans. It was an incredible atmosphere. The Madison band and fans had basically two sections of stands and were surrounded on both sides by a see of purple. The stadium was crazy every time Westlaco scored. Sure some of the things said at the players were not nice but Weslaco defiantly had a huge HOME field advantage not so much because Madison Band was not there but more because Weslaco was not going to let any seats go unfilled.

Now back to the bands. While most Football parents/coaches/players all seem to complain halftime is too long it seems Band parents and Drill parents think Halftime is too short and would love to see more of the “Performance.” So here is a compromise. Right now half time runs about 30 min, 15 min for each band and dance team to perform. What if we shortened half time to 20min (making football parents/coaches and players happy) but the Home team Band and drill team would have that whole time to use to their hearts desire. Band could do more of their competition routine and Dance could do two songs not just one. Granted instead of 10 games each year Band would only perform in 5 games but I think that has it's advantages as well. Another issue is games going late into the evening. With the advent of the forward pass in High School football games are getting longer and longer. Shorten halftime and the games end sooner. I don’t have enough fingers to count how many times I have seen a band squander their allotted 15min with “setting up” and announcing the 45 different officers, squad-leaders and gold star winning performances on the PA before they even play a note. With this plan you have more time each time you perform just not as many times to perform.

I think while you would see a decrease for sure in visitor side fans as the Band and drill parents would most likely not show up to the away games I think you would see an increase in Home fans. One because now Mom and Dad only have 5 opportunities to see the Band and Drill they would not miss any performances at home. Two the atmosphere at Home would be so much better and the fans would feel like they were more apart of the game the repeat customers would be back each week as the entertainment value would go up.

Just some food for thought but I for one think, not only would you save the cash on gas and travel but you would also increase the value of the final product on the field with the Band and Drill not traveling. To take it a step further UIL could limit each football team to a travel squad like college. Maybe a 45 player travel squad with an unlimited amount home squad. Now you will really have an US against the world game plan going into that type of environment.

I’m not advocating playing a football with out a BAND but maybe now is a good time to rethink if TWO BANDS is ONE TOO MANY!!

So what do you do in the playoffs? Both schools must leave their [SUPPORT] at home. If you bring the whole scale back into picture, does this disadvantage the teams having to adjust to a longer break at halftime during the PO's?

[shooter]

So what do you do in the playoffs? Both schools must leave their [SUPPORT] at home. If you bring the whole scale back into picture, does this disadvantage the teams having to adjust to a longer break at halftime during the PO's?

Home and home match ups and the home team gets a band visitors don't

Neutral site both bring their band maybe the Bands can flip for who plays at halftime and like a college game one band plays before the game, it's the playoffs get their early!

You would probably see more Neutral site games thats for sure.

[Grlslvftball2]

As a band parent, I pay almost $1,000 a year for my kid. So if he doesnt march, then there is no need for high priced uniforms, morning and afternoon practice, summer practice or all of those band directors. You also dont need marching instruments like the drums, tubas and such that have been modified so they can be carried on to the field.

So if my $1,000 bucks is not covering my kid to go to games.....what the hell is it covering???? And if you dont get my $1,000 bucks, then what are you saving????

What about all the frickin fund raisers they have all year where they extort more cash out of us parents? And who is going to man the consessions at the home games?

The cheerleaders have to pay $2,000 per kid, drill team somewhere in the middle between band and cheering.

So if that money is not going towards games....what is it going towards? What money are you going to really be saving when you cut that cash cow off?

In the two years I have been a band parent, we have raised tens of thousands of dollars and donated countless hours of volunteer work to much more than just band activities.

You really want to cut that revenue stream off?



Amen honey!!!!....After all the band needs these half time performances to practice for the more important things like major competitions.:)

[shooter]

Amen honey!!!!....After all the band needs these half time performances to practice for the more important things like major competitions.:)

why get on a bus ride for 2 hours so you can sit and wait till it's your turn to practice for 15min??? Utilize your time better on away game weeks and use all of the 2:15min for practice at home.

[texan_75010]

Yikes!!:eek: I was hoping to be conciliatory before we set off one of the holyier than thow band parents. Now I am going to take my pulse before I address the all of the revenue comment. If you remove the football teams how many people would come? Be real band folks. We are glad you come. We are not glad you buy up all the season tickets and leave at halftime but that is another issue.

The band isn't costing anyone anything. They raise their own money and pay for their own busses. They also draw al lot of revenue to the game.

Bands are not going away. Their kids deserve a showcase and most are pretty good. Let's try to play nice wht the rest of the life of this thread.:)


Throttle down here.....football comes wayyyyyy before band or anything else...please do not get me wrong.....I love my band kid, but I have a football kid too....(who by the way now wants to play soccer....kill me). Without the football team there would just be a bunch of nerds marching around and making people feels generally uncomfortable.

My point was to say what you said, the parents pretty much support the band and then some. And let me make this clear....I work for the band so I can get in to the games for free (shhhhhh dont tell my son). :p

[DragonBand06]

why get on a bus ride for 2 hours so you can sit and wait till it's your turn to practice for 15min??? Utilize your time better on away game weeks and use all of the 2:15min for practice at home.Because the UIL does not consider game performances as practice time, and if the band were left practicing at home they would most likely either not be doing anything or violating the 8 hour rule.

[shooter]

Because the UIL does not consider game performances as practice time, and if the band were left practicing at home they would most likely either not be doing anything or violating the 8 hour rule.


So that 15min is well worth it?? lets make that 10min as we need 3 min for the Drill team and 2 min to set up and take down the kettle drums. Like I said wouldn't you be happer if you could Practice at a game for 20min!!!

[CoveMom]

Can any of you say lawsuit? I can pretty much guarantee you that if bands, drill teams, and cheerleaders were left home to "save money" the word would appear on your local newspaper's front page almost immediately. As in, why spend the money to even have a football game in the first place if everyone cannot be involved?

This would happen regardless of the fact that football is the engine that funds most of the sports programs in your ISD.

It would be the end of football in a lot of towns. Those that have lived with the reality of long distance trips (Odessa/Abilene/Midland/Lufkin/Amarillo, etc., come to mind) have already made some decisions on these matters and probably with the approval of the band's booster club and parents. To just declare that the bands, etc., will not be going in order to save money, well, that would only lose us the football programs.

jmo. I like the idea of only having home bands perform, but not because of fuel costs. Rather because of the laborious half-time shows we see nowadays (with all the competition routines). I like the Lufkin-style halftime (military/precisioin marching and real majorettes twirling!) myself. A longer show by the home band might be something I could really enjoy in most cases.


(Flame suit on and buttoned up. Take it easy on me, I had a root canal today)

[TulsaHale74]

I think the "Save Money" argument is just a Red Herring.

The real topic is "a football event is for football and not band & drill teams" which has been debated many times before.

The increased cost of transportation this season compared to last season has been shown in the posts to be an unrelated topic. If someone is concerned about their school district's transportation expense then they need to provide solutions for all athletic events, all academic events including competitions and field trips, music events, and moving students between home and school daily. Football is simple. It has a revenue stream - just raise the price of the tickets. The other expenses are more difficult to manage.

My opinion on the real topic is if you want to hurt the football program, start a war with the parents of the band, drill team, cheerleaders, mascots, student photographers, and people involved with homecoming. Everyone will lose.

[mojoguy]

In all honesty, it is important to drum up support any way you can for football games. When you start cutting corners and justifying it with dollar signs, eventually it does begin having an impact on the fanbase and excitement about the games. When that happens it is easier to justify even more cuts to save money, and it can have a negative impact on the program. I truly believe those things had as big an impact on the downfall of Permian's program as anything. The school district started making cuts and the fanbase eventually started to dwindle down. The energy wasn't there anymore in some big games, and it began to show up in the L column. It got to the point that the students eventually quit coming to games as much, and that is never a good thing. The additional student participation really is important. Maybe there should be a way to let band kids and their parents carpool in a caravan to the away games if it's truly a problem.

[shooter]

In all honesty, it is important to drum up support any way you can for football games. When you start cutting corners and justifying it with dollar signs, eventually it does begin having an impact on the fanbase and excitement about the games.

I agree completly but you left out the words "AT HOME"

Here i will help you out and re-write your post for you

In all honesty, it is important to drum up support AT HOME any way you can for football games AT HOME. When you start cutting corners and justifying it with dollar signs, eventually it does begin having an impact on the fanbase and excitement about the games AT HOME.

[DragonBand06]

So that 15min is well worth it?? lets make that 10min as we need 3 min for the Drill team and 2 min to set up and take down the kettle drums. Like I said wouldn't you be happer if you could Practice at a game for 20min!!!Yes it is. You probably wouldn't understand, but performing under the lights in front of a crowd (whether they're paying attention or not) is a big part of perfecting the performance and becoming more confident. Also, I don't know what school you follow, but our Pit doesn't take any more time to get ready for the show than the rest of the band.

[shooter]

Yes it is. You probably wouldn't understand, but performing under the lights in front of a crowd (whether they're paying attention or not) is a big part of perfecting the performance and becoming more confident. Also, I don't know what school you follow, but our Pit doesn't take any more time to get ready for the show than the rest of the band.

Again no one is saying have a game with no Halftime performance, just have one band perform not two.

[MemorialMustangs]

Ill admit im a band nerd so here is my biased response...

I know for a fact that at every game our show (that no1 watches but its practice on an actual football field at an actual stadium thats important) does not exceed 10 mins... We are actually supposed to have our show last 8-10 mins... But other bands realize that there is no penalty for having a longer half time show... Its more practice so they push it... At the Westfield game last year they had a 17 min halftime show... We had the correct length show but halftime started 10 mins late... So if thats a problem then the goal should be to be a little more strict with the bands on the length of the halftime show... This is as annoying for me as it is for yall... Especially if we are the home team and go second and are left sitting next to the visitors side for that whole time... Just standing there

As far as getting ready for competitions... Our UIL competition is like week 7 I think... Which means the 5 home game idea turns into 2-3 games!!! U cannot imagine the difference between marching on a field and marching on a black top... There are things u have to focus on (u can actually use the stadium to help u) that u cant really focus on without a stadium... The football field has much fewer markings than the practice black top we work on... And playing to a stadium actually changes the way u hear the sound echoing back (U cant rely on what u hear because it is actually delayed a second or so meaning u have to focus on ignoring what u hear essentially) and its very itimidating to Freshmen... I couldnt imagine playing twice on a real football field and then playing at the Berry Center for UIL... So back to my original point on that - put STRICT limits on the length of halftime shows...

As far as comparing High School bands to the Aggie band... Taking a band to Miami or Kansas or w.e. for 1 football game is much different than driving 30 miles for another... And College football isnt the same as High School football... I love college dont get me wrong... But if High school is a lot more exclusive - in a way...

If money is the problem with bands add in a fee to the begining of the year band costs... With say 40 people per bus and an average (I know my school is different being from a big city) of 20 miles per trip just figure out how much it would cost per student and add it to the price if u want... For that many people it wouldnt be much more expensive to the student and u get ur money... I guess this wouldnt work for a all schools maybe but for my school I know it wouldnt be a problem...

Im a huge football fan and I love to go to the games... My mom is single and doesnt care about the actual game lol... And the cost of going + curfew would make it hard for me to drive... It wouldnt be cool if I couldnt go to the away games... Anyways who would play the fight song when u scored! (except it might be a good thing for the band not to go to ur home game if Westfield is ur opponent :D)

[HebronHawk]

Don't they participate in band concerts and competitions in SL?

That's what most of the band fundraising is for. In the nine years that I have been at Hebron, I can't think of too many joint band/football fundraisers.

[shooter]

Our UIL competition is like week 7...

Anyways who would play the fight song when u scored!

I don't know like who plays it during week 7 when the Band is not there because they are at competition?

[mojoguy]

I agree completly but you left out the words "AT HOME"

Here i will help you out and re-write your post for you

In all honesty, it is important to drum up support AT HOME any way you can for football games AT HOME. When you start cutting corners and justifying it with dollar signs, eventually it does begin having an impact on the fanbase and excitement about the games AT HOME.

If you want the excitement level and atmosphere to be good for your team only when they are at home, then you are definitely right. Problem is that some of us like to see our team get up and feel support even on the road. I don't know about other places, but around here the bands play different things during the game, usually when the opposing team is on offense. If only one team has that advantage, it can even have a direct impact on the game. Again, it does have a waterfall effect on your program if you aren't really careful. I would actually be disappointed if the school district wouldn't cover a cross-town trip for the band. You could maybe justify it if the trip is more than 3 hours away and there is more than one lengthy trip during your season. Otherwise, include the extra students.

[shooter]

Problem is that some of us like to see our team get up and feel support even on the road.

I think that is awsome but what does it have to do with the Band? Can't you support your team with out the band there?

[MemorialMustangs]

I don't know like who plays it during week 7 when the Band is not there because they are at competition?

We dont miss the games for competition (because the scheduling is set to avoid conflicts or at least it is here)... What im saying is the Extremely limited practice time on a field... from 6-7 games of practicing on a stadium which is more important than u know... to 2-4 if ur lucky... Thats huge especially for Freshmen

[MemorialMustangs]

I think that is awsome but what does it have to do with the Band? Can't you support your team with out the band there?

hes just saying its always nice to know that some1 is there... always... And the band is louder than a crowd of equal size (unless they are wierd)...

[mojoguy]

I think that is awsome but what does it have to do with the Band? Can't you support your team with out the band there?

They will always have my support, but will they hear the support of the smaller crowd louder than they would hear the band? Would they feel as much energy without the support of their fellow students? Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay for the fact that you are giving the kids a good experience.

[shooter]

They will always have my support, but will they hear the support of the smaller crowd louder than they would hear the band? Would they feel as much energy without the support of their fellow students? Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay for the fact that you are giving the kids a good experience.

i think it would make the experience even more special by having only 5 opportunities instead of 10. how hyped up would the band be if they knew they may only have 5 games to play at. I have seen many a time where the Band is half asleep or playing grab-*** in the stands because the game is a little lopsided, If you knew you were only going to get 5 games don't you think the band would be that much more interested and alert even in a blow-out?

i go back to Madison v Weslaco. I don't know if a single Madison player or fan was more satisfied with a single victory last year than that game. It felt like their was no support for the Mavs that evening, The band was there but you could not hear them from all of the HOME noise. But when Madison snatched victory from a team playing in their own backyard, now that felt like a hard fought win.

[BandidoNB]

I dont like the thought of bands at home games only... half the fun (for me) is watching the bands as well as the football team. Going to a game where a band (even the visiting band)is missing is not fun. I like seeing what another school band has to show and comparing... its all part of the fun. Only 5 games for the band is a ripoff. How would the football team like it if they suddently only had 5 games instead of 10? Would it pump u guys up more for each game? probably not. or probably so but you would feel cheated and the prospect of possibly have a full season. Just cuz a football game wasnt made for the band doesnt mean most of them dont care about attending.

[shooter]

I dont like the thought of bands at home games only... half the fun (for me) is watching the bands as well as the football team. Going to a game where a band (even the visiting band)is missing is not fun. I like seeing what another school band has to show and comparing... its all part of the fun. Only 5 games for the band is a ripoff. How would the football team like it if they suddently only had 5 games instead of 10? Would it pump u guys up more for each game? probably not. or probably so but you would feel cheated and the prospect of possibly have a full season. Just cuz a football game wasnt made for the band doesnt mean most of them dont care about attending.


It's a Football game and a Football Season so going to 5 games is not part of the original argument or does it make any since. The Band is part of the game but you don't HAVE to have any bands to play a football game. I have been to several 5A football games with just 1 Band, and a couple of 5A games with no Bands. No one left asking for a refund because they felt ripped off.

For people that want to see other Bands perform think of the windfall in ticket sales at competitions like Bands of America as people that want to see other Bands perform would flock to BAND competitions to see BANDs perform.

[slorch]

Leaving key segments of your study body out of the equation results in fewer tickets being sold, regardless of who gets the income. Maybe at your school band/drill team/whatever parents don't attend out of town games, but they do at Trinity. I would think that decreased attendance is not going to help anyone.

I thought all of these people believe in school pride and teamwork.

Wouldn't they still be going to the games, if only to cheer like the rest of us?:rolleyes:

[slorch]

As a band parent, I pay almost $1,000 a year for my kid.

I definitely bought the wrong models.

What dealership did you use?;):D

[mad_fan]

Bring the band...or leave 'em home...
If we could have everybody travel to our place...
That'd save us some serious $$$...

San Angelo Central...

[Magellan]

If bands are going over their allotted time, it's not because of their UIL competition show- the UIL limits marching contest shows to 8 minutes.
Drill teams rarely pick a long song because their routines are perpetual-motion, and even a 16-year old "dancing girl" gets tired after doing leg kicks and jumps for 5 minutes straight (the thought of that makes me tired just thinking about the work).
If schools are going over, it's because they're spending 4-5 YEARS setting up the 15 sets of bells, 4 sets of kettle drums, grand piano (yes, a grand piano), and everything else in the pit.
Halftime is 28 minutes, each side getting 14, but if it goes excessively over, the home team can get a 5-yard delay-of-game penalty (even if they didn't even go out there), so there are schools that will cut their drill short at games to prevent a penalty (not many, but a few).
Even with the biggest football programs, the band, cheer, and drill teams, along with their parents who are paying booster organization members (usually also joining the athletic booster clubs), make up over half the crowd- especially at road games when the football team is usually fighting more of an uphill battle.
In that instant classic of the Allen-Westfield game, when there were over 600 band members playing their until their arms and lips were ready to give out, just imagine what it would have been like with just a few sound effects over the PA at Homer Bryce. Now, I know that not every school brings 350+ like Allen and there are only a few schools that have Bands of America Grand Champion trophies like Westfield, but the bands going back and forth was just as intense as that amazing game.
Will a few schools tell the band to cut an out of town game or two from the schedule to save money? Yes. But, since most teams in Texas don't play many, if any, games more than an hour from home, look to see all the woodwinds, brass, and energetic girls (and a few guys) you can handle.
To be honest, my season of watching Westfield football wouldn't have been the same if I hadn't seen the Klein Collins drill team dance to Eye of the Tiger with their dads. That was sweet, a little cheesy, but isn't any father-daughter moment supposed to be that way?

[trojanbacker]

Is this really an issue in most districts? I attend school board meetings here (HEB) and have never heard gasoline costs as they relate to game travel discussed.

I basically use halftime as a break from the game and can't remember the last time I watched a band/drill team perform. During the game I'm aware they are playing but it's like background noise to what I'm really there to do, which is watch a football game. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't miss them if they stayed home.

Obviously, districts must do what they need to do in order to make their budgets work. I'm just not sure that in most districts, where travel is limited as in our case to 20 miles or less, are all that concerned with it at this time.

[texan_75010]

I definitely bought the wrong models.

What dealership did you use?;):D

Nice one......if only they were that cheap. :p

[shooter]

To be honest, my season of watching Westfield football wouldn't have been the same if I hadn't seen the Klein Collins drill team dance to Eye of the Tiger with their dads. That was sweet, a little cheesy, but isn't any father-daughter moment supposed to be that way?

I'm going to venture and take a stab that Klein Collins did this Dad-Daughter routine at a HOME game?? Correct?

[jbusch]

You're now at A&M, right? Does the Aggie Band make every road trip? As the answer is no, I don't think anyone would believe, with the possible expception of some horns and red raider fans, that the Aggie Band is useless, simply because they didn't perform at all away games. Don't take this too seriously, as you know I support the band kids as well. I don't think anyone really wants to remove the bands from high school football. But with diesel prices being what they are and considering the size of transporting an army the size of Carroll's band, drill team and cheerleaders, not to mention the football team, some measures may indeed need to be undertaken. Now if we can just get a bunch more of the band parents and drill team parent to actually stay for the whole game....:rolleyes:

They are a marching band, let them march to the games :D

[jbusch]

They will always have my support, but will they hear the support of the smaller crowd louder than they would hear the band? Would they feel as much energy without the support of their fellow students? Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay for the fact that you are giving the kids a good experience. That is the only reason ET lost to OP last year - the band wasn't there.:D, that's why SLC beat ET in 2006 'cause the band didn't get there till half time - ET dominated ;) the second half. hey maybe bands are valuable- now if I could only pin the 2005 SGP loss on the band

[mojoguy]

That is the only reason ET lost to OP last year - the band wasn't there.:D, that's why SLC beat ET in 2006 'cause the band didn't get there till half time - ET dominated ;) the second half. hey maybe bands are valuable- now if I could only pin the 2005 SGP loss on the band

There it is! Stone cold facts! :D

[MemorialMustangs]

For people that want to see other Bands perform think of the windfall in ticket sales at competitions like Bands of America as people that want to see other Bands perform would flock to BAND competitions to see BANDs perform.

I dont think so... Y would anybody drive from Houston to San Antonio to pay money for a ticket to see 10000000 bands that they wouldnt have seen (unless they planned on going all the way there in the first place) and the 3 bands they missed... That trip alone would probably cost more money in itself than it would to pay the extra fees to send the band to the game thats say 20 miles away... Dont get me wrong Im not from West Texas or anything... But I cant imagine y its such an issue when the furthest trip we take is to Spring... And we have like 7 games at Tully our district owned stadium that isnt more than like 5-6 miles away (but traffic sure makes it feel farther)... As far as West Texas is concerned, if the trip is too long I understand y theyd leave the band... Otherwise as I said just add a fee to the payment to be in it... With the number of people per bus I think it would make it cheaper per person than u think...

And as far as the 8 minute show for UIL... Im not sure if Westfield actually competes in UIL (I know they compete in Bands of America)... They ran an 11-12 minute show... Then did a drill team thing at our game... Maybe they shortened it too fit inside of UIL rules... And the Grand Piano was Westfield my Freshman year LOL... That was kinda wierd... We... just ran a normal... show...

And as I said before - playing in a stadium on a field is significantly different than playing on the parking lot... So limiting them to 5 games means that most schools would get 3 practices (in a stadium) before UIL and believe it or not that would be extremely difficult on bands in general... And yes some band people could care less about the game... But they all play woodwinds and u cant hear them anyways...

And if they shortened it to us going to 5 games... Id be angry because my freshman, sophmore, and soon to be junior years I would have gone to 10... I wouldnt necessarily be excited for those 5 games...

Taking the band out is taking out student participation... Which essentailly defeats the high school football purpose... If u dont like student participation maybe the best way to go is the NFL... There is no student participation in that...

[chap fan]

That is the only reason ET lost to OP last year - the band wasn't there.:D, that's why SLC beat ET in 2006 'cause the band didn't get there till half time - ET dominated ;) the second half. hey maybe bands are valuable- now if I could only pin the 2005 SGP loss on the band

Well, no one will mistake Shooter for a Renaissance man. I have to agree with the above sentiment. I watch the games intently AND I watch the half times intently. One of my pet peeves is those who don't and are inconsiderate of those who do--both during the game and the half time--so please remember that next time you do your seventh inning stretch at half time in front of me without bothering to check if anyone is trying to watch. And I'm a former cheerleader, drill team, and band parent.

However, my feelings about this don't stem from my own enjoyment of support groups or my involvement with them. I agree with the Trojan fan. It has been a very bad omen when our high school principals (usually in their rookie year) have tried to save money and used school buses for nondistrict games on the IH-35 corridor, resulting in the support groups arriving late to the football games. They can't leave until the buses come back from their routes and--low and behold--travel on IH 35 at rush hour is extremely slow. When our support groups have shown up right at kick off or at half time, our team has played poorly until after they're in place and doing their traditional things. Now--my kids have graduated, so I don't know the kids in high school now well enough to know what they have to say about it, but I think that the support groups really are support groups that, while they certainly don't "win" or "lose" the game, do help spur the team to do better. Yes, I can visualize "Shooter" gagging now. It's okay--I'm sure he's tone deaf!

[chap fan]

And as for the NFL, Memorial Mustangs, a very, very long time ago, the NFL was promoting televising halftimes at their games (think 40 years ago!). So I actually performed at a Dallas Cowboy halftime that kicked off that year's NFL season as part of two Hill Country high school bands--Fredericksburg and New Braunfels. I guess Howie and Jimmy earn better ratings than kids!

[chhspantherfan]

And as for the NFL, Memorial Mustangs, a very, very long time ago, the NFL was promoting televising halftimes at their games (think 40 years ago!). So I actually performed at a Dallas Cowboy halftime that kicked off that year's NFL season as part of two Hill Country high school bands--Fredericksburg and New Braunfels. I guess Howie and Jimmy earn better ratings than kids!

i remember those days:D..........I even remember the Dallas Cowboys Band:o

[BandidoNB]

It's a Football game and a Football Season so going to 5 games is not part of the original argument or does it make any since. The Band is part of the game but you don't HAVE to have any bands to play a football game. I have been to several 5A football games with just 1 Band, and a couple of 5A games with no Bands. No one left asking for a refund because they felt ripped off.

For people that want to see other Bands perform think of the windfall in ticket sales at competitions like Bands of America as people that want to see other Bands perform would flock to BAND competitions to see BANDs perform.

Keep in mind that its not only football parents and players who look forward to the football season. Bands, dance/drill teams, cheerleaders, ROTC, etc. also look forward to it, along with its fans. Being denied going to 5 football games is like losing half your season. Thats why I came up with the hypothetical 5 game football season. The support groups are losing half of their performances.... think if it in terms of football. Your proposition is very football-centric, and lets face it... high school football is about so much more than the football team. I hope you can understand that it would upset a lot of people.

[shooter]

And as I said before - playing in a stadium on a field is significantly different than playing on the parking lot... So limiting them to 5 games means that most schools would get 3 practices (in a stadium) before UIL and believe it or not that would be extremely difficult on bands in general... And yes some band people could care less about the game... But they all play woodwinds and u cant hear them anyways...




i just have to ask the obvious here. What is your stadium doing on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons, or mornings for that mater? I drive by a stadium that has 7 high schools playing in it this year. Can't remember one time I saw anything going on on a Monday morning and most Monday Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons it's free as well. Maybe a Jr high game every once in awhile but really if you want to practice in the stadium go practice in the stadium.

[shooter]

Keep in mind that its not only football parents and players who look forward to the football season. Bands, dance/drill teams, cheerleaders, ROTC, etc. also look forward to it, along with its fans. Being denied going to 5 football games is like losing half your season. Thats why I came up with the hypothetical 5 game football season. The support groups are losing half of their performances.... think if it in terms of football. Your proposition is very football-centric, and lets face it... high school football is about so much more than the football team. I hope you can understand that it would upset a lot of people.

no one said you can't go to away games...

I think with out the Visiting team band participating it would be even more important for everyone to go to the away games…

On their own dime.

Drive, stand in line for a ticket, cheer, eat a dog, drive home...

If it's about TEAM support what is the issue.

I'm not advocating that anyone not have the opportunity to look forward to Football season. But wouldn't every performance be that much sweeter if you knew you would only have 5 performances.

High School Football IS a lot more than just Football and that is why I think the Home team Band should have more time to perform at half and also have the opportunity to play all game long with out having to hear a opposing band playing over the top of them.

This Idea gets better and better the more i think about it...

[shooter]

Well, no one will mistake Shooter for a Renaissance man. I have to agree with the above sentiment. I watch the games intently AND I watch the half times intently. One of my pet peeves is those who don't and are inconsiderate of those who do--both during the game and the half time--so please remember that next time you do your seventh inning stretch at half time in front of me without bothering to check if anyone is trying to watch. And I'm a former cheerleader, drill team, and band parent.

However, my feelings about this don't stem from my own enjoyment of support groups or my involvement with them. I agree with the Trojan fan. It has been a very bad omen when our high school principals (usually in their rookie year) have tried to save money and used school buses for nondistrict games on the IH-35 corridor, resulting in the support groups arriving late to the football games. They can't leave until the buses come back from their routes and--low and behold--travel on IH 35 at rush hour is extremely slow. When our support groups have shown up right at kick off or at half time, our team has played poorly until after they're in place and doing their traditional things. Now--my kids have graduated, so I don't know the kids in high school now well enough to know what they have to say about it, but I think that the support groups really are support groups that, while they certainly don't "win" or "lose" the game, do help spur the team to do better. Yes, I can visualize "Shooter" gagging now. It's okay--I'm sure he's tone deaf!

Chap Fan i agree with everything you are saying i have witnessed the Westlake-Chap-Tardy-Band myself due to bus scheduleing and trafic. There IS a place for support groups and no one not even me wants to ever go to a game with out A Band and A Drill team and A Pep Squad, but do we realy need two?

[toonman]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

You have just lit the fuse. Now stand back and watch the explosion!!!!!!

[Grlslvftball2]

I basically use halftime as a break from the game and can't remember the last time I watched a band/drill team perform. During the game I'm aware they are playing but it's like background noise



Poor thing. You should really broaden your knowledge of the Fine Arts, unless that is your band is not very competitive(not sure what area you're in). There are many, many great bands out there that also compete at the state level, and nationally for some of the lucky ones.

[Magellan]

I'm going to venture and take a stab that Klein Collins did this Dad-Daughter routine at a HOME game?? Correct?

Wait, it was Tomball... and it was a road game. Believe me, the game didn't matter as much as those dads in sweatpants "sparring" with their little girls.

[CyFallsMom]

As a former drill team girl myself, I can tell you that I brought at least 10 people per game when I was involved - many of the girls did. That hasn't changed. As a parent of former Cy Falls band and color guard kids - again, we had people who came to watch them - not necessarily the football team. You leave that element out and you lose A) school spirit B) many fans who ONLY care about those groups and C) you cause bad feelings amongst students and parents. I think that's a horrible idea unless you are travelling 300 miles for a game which is ludicrous anyway. The end product is not worth it.

I have no kids left in high school but I still support the football team and their parents and I've noticed that many of them support the band and drill team as well. That's what it's like being in a true football family!! the Texas High School Football Mystique is WAY more than just football...it's the whole package my friends - take it from this former Bruin Brigader!!:)

[CCParent]

As a former drill team girl myself, I can tell you that I brought at least 10 people per game when I was involved - many of the girls did. That hasn't changed. As a parent of former Cy Falls band and color guard kids - again, we had people who came to watch them - not necessarily the football team. You leave that element out and you lose A) school spirit B) many fans who ONLY care about those groups and C) you cause bad feelings amongst students and parents. I think that's a horrible idea unless you are travelling 300 miles for a game which is ludicrous anyway. The end product is not worth it.

I have no kids left in high school but I still support the football team and their parents and I've noticed that many of them support the band and drill team as well. That's what it's like being in a true football family!! the Texas High School Football Mystique is WAY more than just football...it's the whole package my friends - take it from this former Bruin Brigader!!:)
I agree 100%.

[TulsaHale74]

Poor thing. You should really broaden your knowledge of the Fine Arts, unless that is your band is not very competitive(not sure what area you're in). There are many, many great bands out there.
In the Hurst-Euless-Bedford school district there are two high schools.

Trinity has one of the best football teams in the country. To borrow from another thread they are an emerging dynasty.

Bell has THE BEST band in the country. They are a dynasty.

If trojanbacker wanted to see a good band he could every year. It's a choice and there's nothing wrong with it.

[Magellan]

I dont think so... Y would anybody drive from Houston to San Antonio to pay money for a ticket to see 10000000 bands that they wouldnt have seen (unless they planned on going all the way there in the first place) and the 3 bands they missed... That trip alone would probably cost more money in itself than it would to pay the extra fees to send the band to the game thats say 20 miles away... Dont get me wrong Im not from West Texas or anything... But I cant imagine y its such an issue when the furthest trip we take is to Spring... And we have like 7 games at Tully our district owned stadium that isnt more than like 5-6 miles away (but traffic sure makes it feel farther)... As far as West Texas is concerned, if the trip is too long I understand y theyd leave the band... Otherwise as I said just add a fee to the payment to be in it... With the number of people per bus I think it would make it cheaper per person than u think...

And as far as the 8 minute show for UIL... Im not sure if Westfield actually competes in UIL (I know they compete in Bands of America)... They ran an 11-12 minute show... Then did a drill team thing at our game... Maybe they shortened it too fit inside of UIL rules... And the Grand Piano was Westfield my Freshman year LOL... That was kinda wierd... We... just ran a normal... show...

And as I said before - playing in a stadium on a field is significantly different than playing on the parking lot... So limiting them to 5 games means that most schools would get 3 practices (in a stadium) before UIL and believe it or not that would be extremely difficult on bands in general... And yes some band people could care less about the game... But they all play woodwinds and u cant hear them anyways...

And if they shortened it to us going to 5 games... Id be angry because my freshman, sophmore, and soon to be junior years I would have gone to 10... I wouldnt necessarily be excited for those 5 games...

Taking the band out is taking out student participation... Which essentailly defeats the high school football purpose... If u dont like student participation maybe the best way to go is the NFL... There is no student participation in that...

Westfield does not do UIL because Philip Geiger (no, not Philip Geigar the old DB from UT... nor his dad) made a decision years ago to focus on BOA instead because it was a bigger competition (national #1 is a LITTLE bigger than #1 in Texas... and I'm serious when I say a little).
The grand piano makes its way out every now and then. And I wasn't saying EVERYONE has a grand piano- just some schools. And remember, the Rice M.O.B. actually MARCHES their piano, and doesn't just put it in place.
And lastly, I have to say it- I think just about everyone agrees getting rid of the band, cheerleaders, and drill team is not a good idea. Will some districts do some of it to save money, of course. The decision-makers generally aren't the ones at the games, week-in, week-out. Except for one of Spring ISD's board members who I applaud because he's on the sidelines every week taking pictures, and he's not exactly a photographer by day. If you know Spring ISD, you know who I'm talking about.

[DrEdward]

Is this really an issue in most districts? I attend school board meetings here (HEB) and have never heard gasoline costs as they relate to game travel discussed.

I basically use halftime as a break from the game and can't remember the last time I watched a band/drill team perform. During the game I'm aware they are playing but it's like background noise to what I'm really there to do, which is watch a football game. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't miss them if they stayed home.

Obviously, districts must do what they need to do in order to make their budgets work. I'm just not sure that in most districts, where travel is limited as in our case to 20 miles or less, are all that concerned with it at this time.

It would not have been much of a topic for discussion at anyone's board meetings until this year. It is the recent price increases that have even brought the topic to this level of concern. In the metromess, it is not yet an overwhelming concern, due to the relatively short distances to cover. (Unless you have a band with 450 in it, plus a drill team with 70 and 20 cheerleaders to move around. :rolleyes: The distances may be limited, but there is a small fleet of buses involved) At the same time, if you look at the operating budgets being proposed amd/or adopted for 2008-2009 academic years, most are running a negative balance and the districts are making up the deficit by taking money from their fund balances. This is clearly not an ongoing solution. It is not the band's fault this is occuring, but a good part of the increases are being driven by transportation costs and food costs, with the underlying problem there being oil prices as well and the diversion of a large quantity of feed corn to ethanol.

[CCParent]

This is clearly not an ongoing solution. It is not the band's fault this is occuring, but a good part of the increases are being driven by transportation costs and food costs, with the underlying problem there being oil prices as well and the diversion of a large quantity of feed corn to ethanol. Underlying problem is the oil speculators(whom all should be lined up in front of a firing squad).

[ktCarl]

No way. Katy's band and drill team is a part of the whole football experience.

Leave the refs at home. :D

[shooter]

As a former drill team girl myself, I can tell you that I brought at least 10 people per game when I was involved - many of the girls did. That hasn't changed.

But the price of GAS has changed. What did it cost to fill up a school bus tank when you were involved. We are talking about tomorrow and the price of gas not what it was when we were in school.

You leave that element out and you lose A) school spirit

if you truly have school spirit wouldn't you go to the games anyway??

B) many fans who ONLY care about those groups

And they would still have a great time at home games!

I have no kids left in high school but I still support the football team and their parents and I've noticed that many of them support the band and drill team as well. That's what it's like being in a true football family!! the Texas High School Football Mystique is WAY more than just football...it's the whole package my friends - take it from this former Bruin Brigader!!:)

Again I agree there is a very important place for all of these activities and what better place to showcase the tallent then at your own stadium in front of most of your fan base. correct?

[shooter]

I have to say it- I think just about everyone agrees getting rid of the band, cheerleaders, and drill team is not a good idea.

I aggree 100% never should a school get rid of their band, cheer, drill or choir or Drama or any of the arts.

[shooter]

No way. Katy's band and drill team is a part of the whole football experience.

Leave the refs at home. :D

Katy has one of the best bands i have ever seen

[jbusch]

Poor thing. You should really broaden your knowledge of the Fine Arts, unless that is your band is not very competitive(not sure what area you're in). There are many, many great bands out there that also compete at the state level, and nationally for some of the lucky ones.
Hey artsy - sometimes a guy just has to use the rest room, I ain't seen any HS band worth wetting my pants over and that includes LD Bells. Plus weeze got good nachos at the concession stands

[TulsaHale74]

Hey artsy - sometimes a guy just has to use the rest room, I ain't seen any HS band worth wetting my pants over and that includes LD Bells. Plus weeze got good nachos at the concession stands
Depends.:p They get you through bands, drill teams, overtimes, and bad nachos.

[twcpfan1]

But the price of GAS has changed. What did it cost to fill up a school bus tank when you were involved. We are talking about tomorrow and the price of gas not what it was when we were in school.

did you just imply that when cfmom was in drill team, gas was 25 cents a gallon? man, i don't think she's that old . :D



if you truly have school spirit wouldn't you go to the games anyway??

yeah true. the difference is their kids will no longer be part of the formal halftime festivities. so it's not quite the same.



And they would still have a great time at home games!



Again I agree there is a very important place for all of these activities and what better place to showcase the tallent then at your own stadium in front of most of your fan base. correct?

not really. better to have a non biased audience tell you you're awesome.



responses in blue

[Grlslvftball2]

Hey artsy - sometimes a guy just has to use the rest room, I ain't seen any HS band worth wetting my pants over and that includes LD Bells. Plus weeze got good nachos at the concession stands



wow:rolleyes:
that explains that. lol

[odessapermian.com]

As stated previously, we already planned to cut back on band travel, due to the new alignment really stretching out our travel distances. Another thing we are doing is changing the way we schedule JV games. For example, when we play Amarillo we will send our JV Black to Amarillo but not our JV White (sophomore) team. They will play Midland's sophomore team instead, and Amarillo's sophomore team will hook up with someone in their area.

[galapagos]

The band, cheerleaders and drill teams are a huge part in making Friday nights the event they have become. The best 10 days of the year all happen to be Friday Nights in the fall. Its not about money. You don't save money by shutting down the engine that fuels high school athletics. People in the stands all come for different reasons and all of the people in the stands spend money on tickets, programs food and whatever. Friday Night Football is probably the highest quality and cheapest entertainment available. The people that come to see the band spend money at the concession stand which is the main fund raiser for the band and finances their travel. If you leave the band at home the engine runs out of gas and Friday Night becomes another night in front of the tube watching nothing and a tiny crowd of players friends and families at the game. Who in their right mind wants that?

[tjw]

Boy, this was a dumb thread but sure got a lot of responses in a short time.

Bands and drill teams as well as Football players and cheerleaders is what makes Friday night under the lights worth while. Why would anyone leave one peice out?

[HebronHawk]

If bands are going over their allotted time, it's not because of their UIL competition show- the UIL limits marching contest shows to 8 minutes.
Drill teams rarely pick a long song because their routines are perpetual-motion, and even a 16-year old "dancing girl" gets tired after doing leg kicks and jumps for 5 minutes straight (the thought of that makes me tired just thinking about the work).
If schools are going over, it's because they're spending 4-5 YEARS setting up the 15 sets of bells, 4 sets of kettle drums, grand piano (yes, a grand piano), and everything else in the pit.
Halftime is 28 minutes, each side getting 14, but if it goes excessively over, the home team can get a 5-yard delay-of-game penalty (even if they didn't even go out there), so there are schools that will cut their drill short at games to prevent a penalty (not many, but a few).
Even with the biggest football programs, the band, cheer, and drill teams, along with their parents who are paying booster organization members (usually also joining the athletic booster clubs), make up over half the crowd- especially at road games when the football team is usually fighting more of an uphill battle.
In that instant classic of the Allen-Westfield game, when there were over 600 band members playing their until their arms and lips were ready to give out, just imagine what it would have been like with just a few sound effects over the PA at Homer Bryce. Now, I know that not every school brings 350+ like Allen and there are only a few schools that have Bands of America Grand Champion trophies like Westfield, but the bands going back and forth was just as intense as that amazing game.
Will a few schools tell the band to cut an out of town game or two from the schedule to save money? Yes. But, since most teams in Texas don't play many, if any, games more than an hour from home, look to see all the woodwinds, brass, and energetic girls (and a few guys) you can handle.
To be honest, my season of watching Westfield football wouldn't have been the same if I hadn't seen the Klein Collins drill team dance to Eye of the Tiger with their dads. That was sweet, a little cheesy, but isn't any father-daughter moment supposed to be that way?

We played at Azle in 2003 and it was their homecoming and senior night rolled into one. The halftime was 1 hour and 45 mins. long without penalty.

I was on the sideline and asked the ref about the penalty and he said they were hometown boys and wouldn't dare to penalize Azle for that.

A Dallas Morning News reporter on the sideline heard our conversation and made a crack about it and got thrown off the sideline by the ref in retaliation.

[Grlslvftball2]

We played at Azle in 2003 and it was their homecoming and senior night rolled into one. The halftime was 1 hour and 45 mins. long without penalty.

I was on the sideline and asked the ref about the penalty and he said they were hometown boys and wouldn't dare to penalize Azle for that.

A Dallas Morning News reporter on the sideline heard our conversation and made a crack about it and got thrown off the sideline by the ref in retaliation.



That's the exception, not the rule(hopefully).

[DrEdward]

We played at Azle in 2003 and it was their homecoming and senior night rolled into one. The halftime was 1 hour and 45 mins. long without penalty.

I was on the sideline and asked the ref about the penalty and he said they were hometown boys and wouldn't dare to penalize Azle for that.

A Dallas Morning News reporter on the sideline heard our conversation and made a crack about it and got thrown off the sideline by the ref in retaliation.

I am sure we have all seen many halftimes go beyond and sometimes well beyond the legal limit under the rules. However, I can also attest that I have never seen any set of officials impose a delay of game penalty on a home team for exceeding the halftime limit. For an offical, it would make his life miserable.

[mojotrain]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

Just as well, but we just use a 48 Chrysler Woody station wagon and a tandem axle U-haul. So we really don't spend all that much.

[mojotrain]

That's what most of the band fundraising is for. In the nine years that I have been at Hebron, I can't think of too many joint band/football fundraisers.

:eek:Nine years? how many credits do you have? Or better, how many do you need?

[slcdragonfan]

Save money, make all the kids' parents pay a surcharge for the away trip. I mean, aren't we having to pay extra gas money for the football kids to travel as well? Isn't that coming out of ISD coffers as well? I mean, what's the diff? So, you want your kid to play in the Permian game? Your share for transportation is $XXX.XX. You want your kid to play in state, pay $xxx.xx. You want your band kid there, pay $xxx.xx. Why the heck not? No pay, no play. Or at least no transport to play. Why even take buses? Why don't we just tell the parents to get their kids there, SOMEHOW?

Great idea. It's not like we are paying any big money for school district taxes anyway, right? Maybe we should discuss the value of gymnasiums at the elementary schools instead?

There is another issue as well, has anyone noticed the electric bill lately? I think we should have the kids pay for that too. Especially the folks that have extracurricular activities because that means we have to run the air conditioning extra long, right?

Where do we stop? :Censor:

[dragonpants]

Hey artsy - sometimes a guy just has to use the rest room, I ain't seen any HS band worth wetting my pants over and that includes LD Bells. Plus weeze got good nachos at the concession stands

The only people that watch the band are the band parents. I mean even the best college band still sounds like crap. However I love our band during the games. I do watch them in the playoffs as long as they are playing trash cans which is really cool.

The bands are constantly having fund raisers etc, the schools/ band can find the money to transport the band around. There are local businesses that support the band and get some advertising out of it. Let's look at this rationally. If a band has the same number of kids as last year how much more expensive is it really this year. A few thousand dollars at most. The community can come up with the money.

When the economy is the way that it is you have to be creative just like in business.

Don't most of these schools have marketing reps? I really do not know. If you do then make them earn their money.

[slorch]

When the economy is the way that it is you have to be creative just like in business.

.

at my house we cut out stuff we don't need, but that's just us...:rolleyes:

Like i said before, band isn't neccessary for the football game, and with the way those folks support the school, they would be at the games any way, right?

[HebronHawk]

:eek:Nine years? how many credits do you have? Or better, how many do you need?

LOL, I'm never going to graduate.

[dragonpants]

at my house we cut out stuff we don't need, but that's just us...:rolleyes:

Like i said before, band isn't neccessary for the football game, and with the way those folks support the school, they would be at the games any way, right?

Realistically nothing is necessary for a football game other than the team and the coaches but I agree the kids work hard and deserve to be there however budgets should not be adjusted there are plenty of ways to raise money. At Carroll the band gets the parking money. A lot of people in other districts have issue with charging for parking but is 2-3 bucks going to keep you away from a game? If it is that big of a deal cut out a hot dog at the game or car pool with friends that have one of those big gas guzzling SUV's.

[slcdragonfan]

at my house we cut out stuff we don't need, but that's just us...:rolleyes:

Like i said before, band isn't neccessary for the football game, and with the way those folks support the school, they would be at the games any way, right?

Well heck, is any of this dang extracurricular stuff necessary anyway? Its a big expense for the school district to ship their kids around to play {football|baseball|soccer|softball|swimming|tennis |etc}. Lets just cut out all those non-profitable sports (I guess that includes all girls sports too, yes? Oh, forgot, Title IX.) Maybe we can make all the games home games for the girls. Lets do a profit analysis on the away games for football. The 'rich' districts can get donations from the parents and the poor districts can use Robin Hood money from the rich districts. Hey, didn't I hear that a lot of North Texas school districts are getting Lease and royalty money? Where is that going? Isn't that a bit of an offset to say the least? So the lease payment schools travel and the others cut out away games.;)

Why do we want to save a few dollars by cutting out a big part of the constituency? Why remove the game experience from them?:confused:

I think we are all getting cranky waiting for football so we eat our own. Don't ever think that most band kids and most band parents don't support their football team in a big way. At least where I live now, where I lived in Oklahoma, and where I lived in Houston. Its just too bad that it doesn't go both ways with some people. Raise the ticket prices by a 1$ to cover the away games travel. Or start charging for parking. Or move to outsource your transportation with another school district. Or be lucky enough to be in the core area of the Barnett Shale. One way or another, find a way. Inclusive not exclusive.

[HUM398]

Humble ISD recently has cut 9.5 million dollars this past year....Humble,Kingwood, Atascocita, and Kingwood Park bands will all miss 4 away games.

Humble Band games they are missing.

Cy-Ridge
Spring
Macarthur
Aldine.

[slcdragonfan]

Humble ISD recently has cut 9.5 million dollars this past year....Humble,Kingwood, Atascocita, and Kingwood Park bands will all miss 4 away games.

Humble Band games they are missing.

Cy-Ridge
Spring
Macarthur
Aldine.

Any idea how much savings were the result of not traveling the band? Because the $9.5mil sure isn't just from that....

What is the travel distance for those games?

[rich_pack]

I remember one year Lufkin was in the playoffs and the band could not make it because of a contest, talk about quite and no fun. Made for a pretty boring in between plays game and a VERY boring halftime.

[HUM398]

Any idea how much savings were the result of not traveling the band? Because the $9.5mil sure isn't just from that....

What is the travel distance for those games?

Its really not for savings...the district is trying to make a statement to the State. We offered to raise money, and they declined.

The travel time to the furthest is maybe 30 minutes. The rest is at most 10 minutes.

[slcdragonfan]

Its really not for savings...the district is trying to make a statement to the State. We offered to raise money, and they declined.

The travel time to the furthest is maybe 30 minutes. The rest is at most 10 minutes.

Maybe its time for a new school board. Why make a statement with the kids paying the price? Hey, if they really want to make a statement, they should suspend ALL extracurricular activities that require any kind of travel paid for by the School District. A dark stadium on Friday night is one hell of a statement.

[DragonBand06]

The only people that watch the band are the band parents. I mean even the best college band still sounds like crap.
FALSE. Ever heard of DCI?

[dragonpants]

FALSE. Ever heard of DCI?

No I have never heard of DCI unless you are talking about the irons Titleist made a few years back. I am not trying to be difficult but by and large no one wants to watch the band.
I appreciate the spirit and all the hard work and agree that the band should be at every game and that the money needs to be raised somehow to include them.
The game would not be the same without the band but as far as halftime goes I am not involved unless they are doing the trash can thing.

[dragonpants]

Its really not for savings...the district is trying to make a statement to the State. We offered to raise money, and they declined.

The travel time to the furthest is maybe 30 minutes. The rest is at most 10 minutes.

That is horrible and a bad message to send to everyone in the district.

[DrEdward]

Any idea how much savings were the result of not traveling the band? Because the $9.5mil sure isn't just from that....

What is the travel distance for those games?

Just a quick calculation as to the potential cost saving from not taking the band, cheerleaders and drill team to away games:

Assume:

-40 miles round trip to away games and back (doesn't work for west Texas at all);
-10 miles per gallon;
-Diesel at $4.00 per gallon (conservative);
-Driver at $16.00 per hour on the road, not including at the game;
-35 students per bus.

That would mean that for a cohort the size that Carroll takes to an away game, about 555 band, drill team and cheerleaders), the cost per game would come to $832. With five away games, that's $4,160 for the football season. Of course, this doesn't take into account any other expenses on the bus fleet. I am simply assuming that the buses are already in the district and would otherwise simply be sitting in the bus barn on a Friday night. If a district is using charter buses, like Highland Park, the cost for an equivalent size group would be substantially higher.

Even if the band and others had to pay for their own transportation, which they don't, the Carroll band parents make almost that much money in their share of parking fees from a single home game. Unlike the athletic department, which does not get any of the revenues directly from parking or even ticket sales or concession sale - those go to the district's general fund, the band get to retain their portion of the parking fees for their own use.

In any event, the savings from not hauling the band and groups around is not all that large under these assumptions, which are at least inthe ballpark, so to speak. So take the band along anyway. Besides, it is fun to watch them bang on trash cans at halftime. :D

[DrEdward]

Just a quick calculation as to the potential cost saving from not taking the band, cheerleaders and drill team to away games:

Assume:

-40 miles round trip to away games and back (doesn't work for west Texas at all);
-10 miles per gallon;
-Diesel at $4.00 per gallon (conservative);
-Driver at $16.00 per hour on the road, not including at the game;
-35 students per bus.

That would mean that for a cohort the size that Carroll takes to an away game, about 555 band, drill team and cheerleaders), the cost per game would come to $832. With five away games, that's $4,160 for the football season. Of course, this doesn't take into account any other expenses on the bus fleet. I am simply assuming that the buses are already in the district and would otherwise simply be sitting in the bus barn on a Friday night. If a district is using charter buses, like Highland Park, the cost for an equivalent size group would be substantially higher.

Even if the band and others had to pay for their own transportation, which they don't, the Carroll band parents make almost that much money in their share of parking fees from a single home game. Unlike the athletic department, which does not get any of the revenues directly from parking or even ticket sales or concession sale - those go to the district's general fund, the band get to retain their portion of the parking fees for their own use.

In any event, the savings from not hauling the band and groups around is not all that large under these assumptions, which are at least inthe ballpark, so to speak. So take the band along anyway. Besides, it is fun to watch them bang on trash cans at halftime. :D

Oops. I forgot the playoffs. If you happen to be from a school that makes it all the way to state, the total cost of transportation can obviously increase substantially. If one assumes for a metroplex school, that the games will be at Texas Stadium, then the 40 miles round trip can still work as an assumption. We can then assume a cost of $832 per game again. But then for a Region 1 game, that could easily involve a trip to Lubbock. If one were to transport the same group using the old yellow buses, the cost would be increased to about $5,760 for such a trip, not including hotel rooms and meals if they were to stay overnight. Make it to Reliant this season and one is looking at a cost of $4100 to move the group around, again assuming no overnight stay (which one would probably be involved)

So for the playoffs, the cost of transporting the band, drill team, Belles, etc. could come to around to around $13,188.

Adding that to the regular season cost, the transportation cost for the groups in a state chmpionship appeareance season total approximately $17,350.

Not complaining, just calculating..... This is a good problem to have to deal with.

[slcdragonfan]

Just a quick calculation as to the potential cost saving from not taking the band, cheerleaders and drill team to away games:

Assume:

-40 miles round trip to away games and back (doesn't work for west Texas at all);
-10 miles per gallon;
-Diesel at $4.00 per gallon (conservative);
-Driver at $16.00 per hour on the road, not including at the game;
-35 students per bus.

That would mean that for a cohort the size that Carroll takes to an away game, about 555 band, drill team and cheerleaders), the cost per game would come to $832. With five away games, that's $4,160 for the football season. Of course, this doesn't take into account any other expenses on the bus fleet. I am simply assuming that the buses are already in the district and would otherwise simply be sitting in the bus barn on a Friday night. If a district is using charter buses, like Highland Park, the cost for an equivalent size group would be substantially higher.

Even if the band and others had to pay for their own transportation, which they don't, the Carroll band parents make almost that much money in their share of parking fees from a single home game. Unlike the athletic department, which does not get any of the revenues directly from parking or even ticket sales or concession sale - those go to the district's general fund, the band get to retain their portion of the parking fees for their own use.

In any event, the savings from not hauling the band and groups around is not all that large under these assumptions, which are at least inthe ballpark, so to speak. So take the band along anyway. Besides, it is fun to watch them bang on trash cans at halftime. :D

Doc,

I can show you the revenue numbers for the past 3 years. Our share is significantly less than the number you indicate on a per game basis. This money covers a lot of items, I would have to look at the budget but we purchase a lot of items that in the past a school district purchased.

In terms of budget though, seems to me even if you factor in playoff games and some long distance games, a suburban districts expense to take the band along is nominal compared to the whole budget.

Thanks for the numbers though...

[drgnbkr]

I get frustrated when bands run long, but love having the bands and drill teams do their thing at the games...it would be weird without them. If they can get the teams to the games, they should be able to get the bands/drill teams to the games.

[DrEdward]

Doc,

I can show you the revenue numbers for the past 3 years. Our share is significantly less than the number you indicate on a per game basis. This money covers a lot of items, I would have to look at the budget but we purchase a lot of items that in the past a school district purchased.

In terms of budget though, seems to me even if you factor in playoff games and some long distance games, a suburban districts expense to take the band along is nominal compared to the whole budget.

Thanks for the numbers though...

Of course, it is. Relative to the budget of the district, the transportation costs for moving the band around are rounding errors. For Carroll, the cost would pale in comparison to the amount we are forced to send off to Austin under Robin Hood. An entire season and a run to a championship appearance would amount to only about 0.15% of the Chapter 41 payment.

As I stated above, not wanting to get stoned by the band, the parents, cheerleaders and belles, and especially cheerleader parents :rolleyes::D, I was just doing some arithmetic. So far as I am concerned, moving the groups around is a great problem to have to deal with.

I was basing the parking share on an assumed 2,200 cars per game (which is the approximate number of spaces available.) That would yield the band about $3,300 per game. This may overestimate the number of cars. Again, not a criticism. Someone earlier suggested that parking fees could be used to pay for such expenses and I was just trying to put them in perspective.

[texan_75010]

Oops. I forgot the playoffs. If you happen to be from a school that makes it all the way to state, the total cost of transportation can obviously increase substantially. If one assumes for a metroplex school, that the games will be at Texas Stadium, then the 40 miles round trip can still work as an assumption. We can then assume a cost of $832 per game again. But then for a Region 1 game, that could easily involve a trip to Lubbock. If one were to transport the same group using the old yellow buses, the cost would be increased to about $5,760 for such a trip, not including hotel rooms and meals if they were to stay overnight. Make it to Reliant this season and one is looking at a cost of $4100 to move the group around, again assuming no overnight stay (which one would probably be involved)

So for the playoffs, the cost of transporting the band, drill team, Belles, etc. could come to around to around $13,188.

Adding that to the regular season cost, the transportation cost for the groups in a state chmpionship appeareance season total approximately $17,350.

Not complaining, just calculating..... This is a good problem to have to deal with.


So when a band parent, such as myself, pays $960 per year for my student plus stupid fund raisers, we can round that up to $1,000 per year. The band consists of 200 kids (rounded up but throw in the flag twirlers and its over 200).

That is $200,000 dollars which to me, more than pays their way to the games. So if you left them at home, there would be no cost savings at all.

No cost savings because there is no way they could justify me paying $960 a year and sitting at home or in the stands at games.

[SLCDad]

I have come up with a way for school districts to save thousands of dollars in transportation cost. Just simply leave the band and drill team at home. This would save thousands in transportation cost to the tune of 10 to 15 buses for every away game. At a place like Allen that could be 20 to 25 buses. This would add up to be thousands of dollars in savings that does not really effect the game.

This could serve a dual purpose. Most importantly it would save lots of needed money. But the second benefit in my opinion would be to return 1/2 times to a reasonable amount of time. Ask any coach or player they would love it if 1/2 time would be reduced to 20 or 25 minutes instead of the 45 minutes it has become. If only home team band and drill team perform it would be much better.

Just a thought.

It appears you are somewhat clueless about what a high school is all about. It's purpose is to educate kids in academics, athletics, music, socially, etc, etc. Band, drill team, drama, etc., etc., etc. are just as important as football if not more so.

[WeBelieveOCP]

I was a the THSCA all-star game last night and there were no bands, cheerleaders or drill teams present. Boring.

Other than the last couple of minutes, the game atmosphere was non-existent.

These other programs are a part of the HS football culture and need to remain.

[SLCDad]

I was a the THSCA all-star game last night and there were no bands, cheerleaders or drill teams present. Boring.

Other than the last couple of minutes, the game atmosphere was non-existent.

These other programs are a part of the HS football culture and need to remain.

The football team needs the band, drill team and cheerleaders much more than the band, drill team and cheerleaders need to football team.

[slcdragonfan]

Oops. I forgot the playoffs. If you happen to be from a school that makes it all the way to state, the total cost of transportation can obviously increase substantially. If one assumes for a metroplex school, that the games will be at Texas Stadium, then the 40 miles round trip can still work as an assumption. We can then assume a cost of $832 per game again. But then for a Region 1 game, that could easily involve a trip to Lubbock. If one were to transport the same group using the old yellow buses, the cost would be increased to about $5,760 for such a trip, not including hotel rooms and meals if they were to stay overnight. Make it to Reliant this season and one is looking at a cost of $4100 to move the group around, again assuming no overnight stay (which one would probably be involved)

So for the playoffs, the cost of transporting the band, drill team, Belles, etc. could come to around to around $13,188.

Adding that to the regular season cost, the transportation cost for the groups in a state chmpionship appeareance season total approximately $17,350.

Not complaining, just calculating..... This is a good problem to have to deal with.

It helps to see the numbers and see exactly what we are dealing with. For state in 2006, there was not an overnight stay, even though we got back at 4:00 in the morning or so (it was WELL WORTH IT!). I don't believe the ISD has been paying for overnighters for the band either. (anybody, correct me if I am wrong).

On long trips, we usually charter buses. Again, don't know for sure in the Band Parents Organization pays or the ISD. My real point is, while I can't talk for other ISD's bands, our band and band parent's pay their way for the most part. I even think we purchase some of the instruments! Not sure what the band looks like in the ISD budget, but it is a lot less than it could be.

I'm not complaining either, just don't understand this u's vs. them 'uns' stuff.
We all want to participate as much as possible. I do recognize that some school districts are truly faced with challenges regarding the travel (El Paso, etc) and don't know what the answer is. Parents can't always pick up the slack. But seeing these numbers does confirm (for me) that the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of suburban districts taking everyone. And if there is a cost fall-out, then we deal with it. Maybe we should float another bond to get propane buses? Or is propane like diesel, more expensive than gas?

Heck, we could couple Phys Ede with trips by making them pedal buses!:D

[farmerfan]

It appears you are somewhat clueless about what a high school is all about. It's purpose is to educate kids in academics, athletics, music, socially, etc, etc. Band, drill team, drama, etc., etc., etc. are just as important as football if not more so.

Agree
Fans, alum and the players love to face their band and fans after games for the alma mater. Its the whole experience of what makes Texas HS Football and its pagentry so special.
Going to a Permian game and not seeing the band march around the Field to March Grandioso just wouldnt be the same
Going to a Lewisville game and not hearing Big Bad John before kickoffs and on big third down plays wouldnt be the same.
Going to a Dragon game and not hearing Ghost Riders wouldnt be the same
Same with many many teams.
Keep the band at the games and let them do their thing. I for one have always appreciated it.

[dragonpants]

The football team needs the band, drill team and cheerleaders much more than the band, drill team and cheerleaders need to football team.

I will have to disagree with my fellow Dragon on this one. I have stated that the band needs to be at the games but come on now, how many people will show up at Dragon Stadium to see the band, the belles and the cheerleaders do their thing? I am talking outside of their parents.
The football team needs them no doubt but they certainly need a venue and that would be the football team.
Everyone is a Dragon, no group is more important than another isn't that what they are being taught? Maybe should have done this in private do not want to give up our secrets:D
But reality is that without the football team the other groups would not have the type of attendance they are used to.

[slcdragonfan]

I will have to disagree with my fellow Dragon on this one. I have stated that the band needs to be at the games but come on now, how many people will show up at Dragon Stadium to see the band, the belles and the cheerleaders do their thing? I am talking outside of their parents.
The football team needs them no doubt but they certainly need a venue and that would be the football team.
Everyone is a Dragon, no group is more important than another isn't that what they are being taught? Maybe should have done this in private do not want to give up our secrets:D
But reality is that without the football team the other groups would not have the type of attendance they are used to.

I guess I took it to the local level, it was originally intended as a global pronouncement. Point is, unless you are a very poor district travelling many miles fo raway games, you probably don't need to do this.

[HUM398]

Maybe its time for a new school board. Why make a statement with the kids paying the price? Hey, if they really want to make a statement, they should suspend ALL extracurricular activities that require any kind of travel paid for by the School District. A dark stadium on Friday night is one hell of a statement.

This is the same board that re-assigned attendance zones to make sure the New High school was Economically prosperous to encourage growth. Which their is nothing wrong with....if it wasn't at the expense of Humble High School.

The board redid the lines, and in result...Humble went from a 30% Economically disadvantaged to 64%.... The board is out of touch with our needs as an area, and on top of that...They're super incompetents.

When we called the district to ask if we could raise money to at least send a pep band ..the reply was similar to this (Via the person that actually talked to the Fine Arts director) " We can't tell you what to do...But we would rather you didn't. Its the districts responsibility, and we decided that we want to stand against the state and the way they fund Education...We hope to make people mad, and go after the state...The Directors "agree" "

[HUM398]

That is horrible and a bad message to send to everyone in the district.

You're telling me.

I understand why...i just think that its really sad that they would give up Band Travel over some of the more ridiculous programs.

Humble is facing some major trouble if the state doesn't rethink their methods. We are currently spending 6,200 dollars per student...and we only get 4800.

I personally think the district is fiscally irresponsible....They also want to tac on a 13 cent Tax increase....my :Censor:

[DrEdward]

So when a band parent, such as myself, pays $960 per year for my student plus stupid fund raisers, we can round that up to $1,000 per year. The band consists of 200 kids (rounded up but throw in the flag twirlers and its over 200).

That is $200,000 dollars which to me, more than pays their way to the games. So if you left them at home, there would be no cost savings at all.

No cost savings because there is no way they could justify me paying $960 a year and sitting at home or in the stands at games.

Again, let me be clear, I am not arguing that the Bands should not go to the games. I think they should. For the most part, this "debate" is purely hypothetical, although it does now appear that at least some schools are seriously considering not taking their bands with them to away games. I find that to be truly surprising, for as I have shown, even for a large band, unless you make a deep run in the playoffs, or have to go very long distances as might be the case for the Amarillos, Permians and San Angelos among us, the out of pocket transportation costs are not all that great.

But the costs are very real. Drivers are paid; fuel is consumed and if one is leasing buses for the longer trips, those costs can be substantial. The fact that band parents, among others, contribute some fees, and in some case considerable ones, does not eliminate those transportation costs. Furthermore, so far as I am aware, such fees are used by the bands for other things as well, including uniforms. The district typically pays for transportation out of its general M&O funds.

Football games are not the only things bands participate in and they certainly travel to participate in other events as well, although football halftime shows may be the most visible to the largest numbers of non-band types. Clearly there are trips to the competitions as well. So I'm sure some of those funds could be used to offset other costs that are incurred by the respective group in question.

[trojanbacker]

And, to save additional funds, the football team can leave about 40 kids behind on those away games. Does any team (Trinity included) really need to take 80 kids to a game? There's a bus you can take out of the cost equation.

[TrojanHorse03]

And, to save additional funds, the football team can leave about 40 kids behind on those away games. Does any team (Trinity included) really need to take 80 kids to a game? There's a bus you can take out of the cost equation.

If the opportunity arises for them to play after their week of valuable hard work, there's no question they deserve it, the privilege up suiting of for the black and red is the very least they deserve. I could be wrong but I don't think the Trinity athletic department is short on cash, though they certainly wouldn't mind any donations anybody would be interested in making.

[DrEdward]

It helps to see the numbers and see exactly what we are dealing with. For state in 2006, there was not an overnight stay, even though we got back at 4:00 in the morning or so (it was WELL WORTH IT!). I don't believe the ISD has been paying for overnighters for the band either. (anybody, correct me if I am wrong).

On long trips, we usually charter buses. Again, don't know for sure in the Band Parents Organization pays or the ISD. My real point is, while I can't talk for other ISD's bands, our band and band parent's pay their way for the most part. I even think we purchase some of the instruments! Not sure what the band looks like in the ISD budget, but it is a lot less than it could be.

I'm not complaining either, just don't understand this u's vs. them 'uns' stuff.
We all want to participate as much as possible. I do recognize that some school districts are truly faced with challenges regarding the travel (El Paso, etc) and don't know what the answer is. Parents can't always pick up the slack. But seeing these numbers does confirm (for me) that the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of suburban districts taking everyone. And if there is a cost fall-out, then we deal with it. Maybe we should float another bond to get propane buses? Or is propane like diesel, more expensive than gas?

Heck, we could couple Phys Ede with trips by making them pedal buses!:D

I am not complaining either - just covering my butt at the moment to be safe:D:D. The band should be at the games and is well worth it so far as I am concerned.

It may well be the case where on the longer trips involving charters, that the band boosters kick in the extra bucks. This is frequently the case for the athletic booster club for the non-financial contribution producing sports as well. This is not simply a matter of financial gain and loss. Most of see the value in cross-country, volleyball, choir, band, etc. and it goes beyond the strict dollars involved in sending the kids around. You have to make a value judgement as to whether or not you believe there is sufficient value generated to justify the expense. All that value need not be monetary in nature. I do see that value and it is why I support the kids in all their activities in the schools.

Besides, farmer is correct; it would absolutely not be the same without these participants at the game.

[trojanbacker]

<I was being sarcastic>

[TrojanHorse03]

<I was being sarcastic>

Oops my bad, good one!

[CyFallsMom]

But the price of GAS has changed. What did it cost to fill up a school bus tank when you were involved. We are talking about tomorrow and the price of gas not what it was when we were in school.



if you truly have school spirit wouldn't you go to the games anyway??



And they would still have a great time at home games!



Again I agree there is a very important place for all of these activities and what better place to showcase the tallent then at your own stadium in front of most of your fan base. correct?

Just to answer that first one - gas was .50/gallon - my dad brought home about $300 a paycheck for 6 people. Fifty cents was a lot of money for many people - in fact we griped about it when it went that high. Then Carter (read: the first Obama) caused us to have certain days we could buy gas at that time so it was very hard - transportation wise anyway - to get around. The bands and drill teams STILL went to every game.

[CyFallsMom]

So when a band parent, such as myself, pays $960 per year for my student plus stupid fund raisers, we can round that up to $1,000 per year. The band consists of 200 kids (rounded up but throw in the flag twirlers and its over 200).

That is $200,000 dollars which to me, more than pays their way to the games. So if you left them at home, there would be no cost savings at all.

No cost savings because there is no way they could justify me paying $960 a year and sitting at home or in the stands at games.

I agree - I have put out thousands on band myself over the years. The only thing the district pays for are their uniforms and their transportation to and from games. The band is a self sufficient entity - believe me, I was on the board. Those thousands paid for food, drinks, the drill writers, trips to BOA, trips to Disney World (well, one anyway:)) and all other things band. Those band parents pay for 95% of the band cost. The district pays for very little since uniforms are only bought every 10 years. As for sports - and I know this because I had an athlete too - everything is paid for - including meals.

[DragonBand06]

No I have never heard of DCI unless you are talking about the irons Titleist made a few years back. I am not trying to be difficult but by and large no one wants to watch the band.
I appreciate the spirit and all the hard work and agree that the band should be at every game and that the money needs to be raised somehow to include them.
The game would not be the same without the band but as far as halftime goes I am not involved unless they are doing the trash can thing.
www.dci.org

[TheBigPeach]

Wow, Dumbest Idea EVER.

[DrEdward]

Wow, Dumbest Idea EVER.

No, it's not. In today Star-Telegram, there is an article that helps put the band transportation expenditures into perspective. In the Ft Worth ISD, South Hills High School is spending $64,500 :eek: for 130 teachers and staff to go to a luxury resort to develop a school improvement plan. Dunbar High School will spend $25, 099 to have a staff meeting to study TAKS scores and review parent and student survey results at a hotel near Grapevine Mills. A middle school also in the Ft Worth ISD will spend $25,324 on their retreat for the staff to work on a campus improvement plan. Sort of puts the band transportation expenditures into perspective. :mad:

[mojotrain]

Bands in this part of the state IMO have been de emphasized for several years. I suppose for money reasons. I don't like it. High school, when ever I attended was one of the greater events in my life. Sports, band, pep club, all were a part of the full meal deal. Band included. Not everyone plays football so there must be other things for the kids. Band is important to the school and to the students who belong. My complaint is it should be done right. I don't like to see a half baked program thrown out on the field as a time filler just to let the football kids rest. I think it should be a polished and spirit moving effort. Emphasis should be returned to all these things. The money should be found to provide the kids the tools of being a part. Even at the cost of diluting Adminstrators jobs or salarys.

[DrEdward]

Bands in this part of the state IMO have been de emphasized for several years. I suppose for money reasons. I don't like it. High school, when ever I attended was one of the greater events in my life. Sports, band, pep club, all were a part of the full meal deal. Band included. Not everyone plays football so there must be other things for the kids. Band is important to the school and to the students who belong. My complaint is it should be done right. I don't like to see a half baked program thrown out on the field as a time filler just to let the football kids rest. I think it should be a polished and spirit moving effort. Emphasis should be returned to all these things. The money should be found to provide the kids the tools of being a part. Even at the cost of diluting Adminstrators jobs or salarys.

While starting teachers are no longer underpaid relative to other starting professions, the administrators in most school districts are very well paid. Especailly at the Supeintendent level, even in smaller school districts, a salary in excess of $200,000 plus other benefits is not all that uncommon. In the larger distrcits, salaries approach half a million a year plus other compensation for cell phones, housing, car, additional annuities, etc! We can spare a few more bucks for the kids at these levels.

[Grlslvftball2]

www.dci.org (http://www.dci.org)



Good try, but some "thick ones" won't get it or bother trying...Their loss:rolleyes:

[MemorialMustangs]

i just have to ask the obvious here. What is your stadium doing on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons, or mornings for that mater? I drive by a stadium that has 7 high schools playing in it this year. Can't remember one time I saw anything going on on a Monday morning and most Monday Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons it's free as well. Maybe a Jr high game every once in awhile but really if you want to practice in the stadium go practice in the stadium.

So ur saying that instead of using the gas going to the Friday game we should use the gas to go on Monday just to practice... Gas is the same Monday as it is Friday... But on Friday the gas takes u to a football game!!!! cmon... As I said most of our games are at Tully... Even 2 away games are at Tully... Its the closest stadium... But ur saying the band shouldnt show up for the rivalry Stratford game? DUDE COME ON! I said West Texas is a different animal... But the major cities shouldnt have *much* of an issue with the gas prices... And if it is a huge issue even for us city folk Y dont they just add it to the price of being in the organization fees instead of exclude us for the game!!!! As I said 40 people per bus... avg of 15-20 miles a trip... for us... Why would they exclude us even if they had to add an extra fee... It wouldnt be that expensive per person... DO THE MATH... And u were complaining about halftime show length... The UIL should be more strict ur right... But that is no reason to leave the band out of a $1 trip per person to go to the game! And thats a long trip for us... I mean an extra $10 shouldnt kill anybody... And yes leaving the band would decrease revenue... (with tickets and conscessions included it probably wouldnt save anything if the band only went to home games) The band/drill team parents from the other team wouldnt go to ur game meaning ur school gets less money...

Read it all and tell me y we (our schools band) shouldnt go to every game

If ur from San Marcus for example or Amarillo... I can understand y gas prices might become a factor... But I live in the burbs of a city surrounded by 5A high schools... Y should this ever be an issue for us?

The idea here is saving $10 a person a year (assuming they dont just add the fee to the yearly payment) in order to eliminate the Friday Night Lights Atmosphere... I dont see how anybody could support this...

Using Dr. Edwards numbers (even though they seem like a huge price)... Its $1.50 a person... That wont break the bank for anybody in South Lake... And Im sure that nobody would notice the $15 increase in fees for regular season games... And thats a once a year type trip for a football game for our school

[slorch]

While starting teachers are no longer underpaid relative to other starting professions, the administrators in most school districts are very well paid. .

what about second-teamers?;):D

[BDB]

im not gonna lie, i love football. i love to watch my nephew play at the boys & girls club, i love to play a pick up game and most of all i love college football.

that being said, i know i wouldn't be able to handle the empty shell of an away side or being part of the emtpy shell week in and week out. as much as most of yall HATE the bands uil shows, you know they give you a tune to hum during the games and a song to either cheer for or detest after a score.

i really doubt that transportation can't be fixed in other areas (if you're band isn't self sufficient) for 5 trips (for most schools) to a city most people travel to regularly.

sadly, if you take the clubs and organizations out of the game, it's gonna be nothing more then a scrimmage (only wanting to know the end result) for most people.

[EagleDude73]

I am more than willing to give the drill team, band, and cheerleader boosters a little more for their merchandise to keep this part of Texas football alive this year. I lived in New York for ten years and standing on the sidelines on Saturday morning (10 am) just did not cut the mustard. Our groups are what sets Texas aside from the rest. Are we willing to begin the destruction of Texas football because of a silly few more tax dollars from added fuel costs. I own houses in two different school districts and both voted to raise taxes this year. Did I run down to Lowe's to purchase 'For Sale' signs that Sunday morning, no. When Lufkin was in the Klein district, their band got a standing ovation at every game here at Klein Memorial as well as when Humble or Kingwood visited. New York shooter needs to shoot on back up to Poughkeepsie and keep his/her radical Yankee a$$ ideas there. They would welcome him/her there. Can't wait to see what team this punk starts off supporting this year and then ends up on the bandwagon with. And I also can't wait to see the Willowridge band in the parades this year. You know they will be there.

Signed,
Former member of the Pasadena High School Orange Bowl Grand Marshall winner
and 'The University of Houston Cougar Band of Tomorrow, Today - 1976

Any body need donations to send their band to the Presidential Inaugauration this year, PM me I will be more than willing to help. No kidding.

P.S. Was shooter at the Governor's Mansion recently?

[DrEdward]

what about second-teamers?;):D

I haven't checked the two deep line-ups, but I'm pretty sure the second string is paid like the first. :D

[DrEdward]

....

Using Dr. Edwards numbers (even though they seem like a huge price)... Its $1.50 a person... That wont break the bank for anybody in South Lake... And Im sure that nobody would notice the $15 increase in fees for regular season games... And thats a once a year type trip for a football game for our school

The assumptions are set out. Any of them could be off and would change the answer. And remember, I am basing the number of buses on the size of the group that Carroll transports. The vast majority of bands and groups in 5A are not nearly so large as Carroll's. Allen being a notable exception. But feel free to revise the estimates for your own situation.

[DragonBand06]

im not gonna lie, i love football. i love to watch my nephew play at the boys & girls club, i love to play a pick up game and most of all i love college football.

that being said, i know i wouldn't be able to handle the empty shell of an away side or being part of the emtpy shell week in and week out. as much as most of yall HATE the bands uil shows, you know they give you a tune to hum during the games and a song to either cheer for or detest after a score.

i really doubt that transportation can't be fixed in other areas (if you're band isn't self sufficient) for 5 trips (for most schools) to a city most people travel to regularly.

sadly, if you take the clubs and organizations out of the game, it's gonna be nothing more then a scrimmage (only wanting to know the end result) for most people.ElPrez and I agree on something? They're wearing parkas in hell today. ;)

[dragonpants]

www.dci.org

DragonBand do not take this the wrong way. I appreciate your passion for band and I think that people need to be passionate about something. It is just not something that I enjoy. I also am not a big fan of soccer so I would not take my time to go to a soccer game pretty much on any level, unless of course it was the world cup which happened to be in Dallas and the United States was playing in the finals and that is only because I am patriotic. I will state again that the band should be at EVERY game.

[HebronHawk]

If a school band has to choose between practicing for a competition on a Saturday or playing at a Saturday football game, which should they do?

In other words, is the primary reason for having the school band wrapped up in the football game or in winning a band competition at UIL, Bands of America or some other place?

[dragonpants]

If a school band has to choose between practicing for a competition on a Saturday or playing at a Saturday football game, which should they do?

In other words, is the primary reason for having the school band wrapped up in the football game or in winning a band competition at UIL, Bands of America or some other place?

I think you have to leave that up to the band, my personal opinion is that they should be at the game. They have time to practice during the week for competition.

[HebronHawk]

I think you have to leave that up to the band, my personal opinion is that they should be at the game. They have time to practice during the week for competition.

When there was some talk about trying to move the Southlake Carroll vs. Hebron game to Saturday for TV, the Hebron Band was not going to be able to attend because of some competition thing.

[dragonpants]

When there was some talk about trying to move the Southlake Carroll vs. Hebron game to Saturday for TV, the Hebron Band was not going to be able to attend because of some competition thing.

well if they actually have a competition then they should probably attend, from what I understand there are scholarships that are available for band members and I am sure the competition to them is as important as a football game is to the football team

[trojanbacker]

I think Dr. Edwards is onto something. A quick check of the HEB School District Web site finds, in addition to the Superintendent, two Deputy Superintendents, four Assistant Superintendents and 14 Directors of various operations. I'm guessing that the elimination of just one of those positions would more than pay for additional gas costs for the bands/other squads this year. And, I bet we wouldn't miss them at all.

[dragonpants]

I think Dr. Edwards is onto something. A quick check of the HEB School District Web site finds, in addition to the Superintendent, two Deputy Superintendents, four Assistant Superintendents and 14 Directors of various operations. I'm guessing that the elimination of just one of those positions would more than pay for additional gas costs for the bands/other squads this year. And, I bet we wouldn't miss them at all.

true but reality and common sense rarely meet when we were are talking about government or municipalities.

[DragonBand06]

DragonBand do not take this the wrong way. I appreciate your passion for band and I think that people need to be passionate about something. It is just not something that I enjoy. I also am not a big fan of soccer so I would not take my time to a soccer game pretty much on any level, unless of course it was the world cup which happened to be in Dallas and United States was playing in the finals and that is only because I am patriotic. I will state again that the band should be at EVERY game.The original statement I responded to was "The only people that watch the band are the band parents. I mean even the best college band still sounds like crap." I was simply proving that there are groups where the performance does not sound like crap and people who aren't band parents show up to watch. Just because you wouldn't watch soccer doesn't mean that soccer players aren't talented.

[DrEdward]

The original statement I responded to was "The only people that watch the band are the band parents. I mean even the best college band still sounds like crap." I was simply proving that there are groups where the performance does not sound like crap and people who aren't band parents show up to watch. Just because you wouldn't watch soccer doesn't mean that soccer players aren't talented.

There are indeed some talented band members out there, although DCI is probably not a great parallel to high school bands. Still, I go to many of the band competitions and they can be quite entertaining. If anyone gets the chance, it is worth a few hours to watch some of the area bands perform, even if you don't care to spend the entire day there (and these things can go forever.) The scoring is somewhat mysterious and clearly some of the bands put on more engaging shows than others.

[trojanbacker]

"Mysterious" is a kind way of putting it. I'm especially fond of the "Overall General Effect" caption, which is where all the flags, juggling clowns, props and dancing midgets figure into the score.

[mojotrain]

If a school band has to choose between practicing for a competition on a Saturday or playing at a Saturday football game, which should they do?

In other words, is the primary reason for having the school band wrapped up in the football game or in winning a band competition at UIL, Bands of America or some other place?

HH, I'm bias on this matter. Band like gymnastics is judged on opinions. Just whoever is judging that day picks a winner. I think the UIL picks judges, I really don't know but I think there must be a lot of slack in judgeing and subsequent awards. Mostly everyone gets a trophy and heads back home, almost every one is a winner.

I wish the HS bands would play to the audience, the fans and for the teams. Like the percentage of football players that carry football beyond and on to the next level not many band students carry their playing days beyond HS. Like football, if you are good the universitys will know, a bias pick of being a member in a band selected the top band in the state by a UIL hand picked judge, I don't think, helps you get a band scholarship.

Bands can go to contest but to me I think there would be a lot of satisfaction or pride gleened from playing for your fans and your team.

[trojanbacker]

"Band like gymnastics is judged on opinions. Just whoever is judging that day picks a winner."

True. It is very subjective. But, it's a panel with each judge looking at different things. Still, very subjective.

"Mostly everyone gets a trophy and heads back home, almost every one is a winner."

Not so much. A few advance to the finals, the rest go home with nothing. A typical contest might have 30 bands with ten invited back for the finals. Then, after the finals, there is one overall winner.

When it comes to UIL, while any number of bands might receive a first division rating, only three bands and an alternate advance to state out of each region (I think). In 2006, out of the 230+ 5A programs, 30 made it to state with one winner.

[dragonpants]

The original statement I responded to was "The only people that watch the band are the band parents. I mean even the best college band still sounds like crap." I was simply proving that there are groups where the performance does not sound like crap and people who aren't band parents show up to watch. Just because you wouldn't watch soccer doesn't mean that soccer players aren't talented.

I never said that anyone was not talented. I do not enjoy band music, I do not like country music that does not mean the country entertainers are not talented. I do not like every movie ever made that does not mean that actors are not talented.
I am on your side on this deal. The band needs to be at the game but I can tell you that if they did not there would not be a significant or even noticeable drop in attendance other than where the band sits would look weird not having them there.

[DrEdward]

I never said that anyone was not talented. I do not enjoy band music, I do not like country music that does not mean the country entertainers are not talented. I do not like every movie ever made that does not mean that actors are not talented.
I am on your side on this deal. The band needs to be at the game but I can tell you that if they did not there would not be a significant or even noticeable drop in attendance other than where the band sits would look weird not having them there.

You don't like C&W???? Sad. Obviously a man with little taste in music. A dislikee for rap and heavy metal I can understand. But C&W?? In Texas?? Tenneessee Waltz was at one time a Dragon tradition at playoff games (and should be again). Ignore this guy's music opinions from now on. :rolleyes::D

[toonman]

I used to be in the "we do not need the bands at football games" but I have changed my opinion on this subject. The bands greatly add to the ambience and experience of a Texas High School Football Game and I agree with the comment that if a Permian game did not have March Grandioso or be at a Dragon game and not hearing Ghost Riders – it really would not be the same.

Bands, Cheerleaders, Drill Teams, Crew etc add to the great spectacle that is Texas High School Football. The many guests I take to games, never fail to comment on the fully inclusive event that involves so many high school kids. Being involved at a high school activity is far better than these kids roaming the streets or shopping malls with the potential for trouble.

[trojanbacker]

Tennessee Waltz is a great tune, but I'm kind of puzzled why the Dragon band would play it at games. Was there some Tennessee/Texas connection there?

[mojotrain]

"Band like gymnastics is judged on opinions. Just whoever is judging that day picks a winner."

True. It is very subjective. But, it's a panel with each judge looking at different things. Still, very subjective.

"Mostly everyone gets a trophy and heads back home, almost every one is a winner."

Not so much. A few advance to the finals, the rest go home with nothing. A typical contest might have 30 bands with ten invited back for the finals. Then, after the finals, there is one overall winner.

When it comes to UIL, while any number of bands might receive a first division rating, only three bands and an alternate advance to state out of each region (I think). In 2006, out of the 230+ 5A programs, 30 made it to state with one winner.


Yeah, but... Ok, here is what I would do if I were President. Bands would play only music that inspired. Music that makes you want to fight. No froggie went a courtin or West Side Story stuff. They would never stop marching while on the field and the creepin sideways feet slide would be outlawed. They would march in small quick steps facing the direction they are going. About 8 steps to every 5 yards. No concert formations and no solos. They would go from formation to formation without a jail break look. They would march from formation to formation. They would have about 10 majorettes and only one drum major.

The drummers would NEVER be allowed to do the coffee pot sound. That's not to inspire it's to make you want to go to the rest room.

[BandidoNB]

I nominate this thread for Hall of Shame. :(

[TulsaHale74]

Not so much. A few advance to the finals, the rest go home with nothing. A typical contest might have 30 bands with ten invited back for the finals. Then, after the finals, there is one overall winner.

When it comes to UIL, while any number of bands might receive a first division rating, only three bands and an alternate advance to state out of each region (I think). In 2006, out of the 230+ 5A programs, 30 made it to state with one winner.
You must have had children in the band because you know too much.

You surprised me because of your earlier post:
....I basically use halftime as a break from the game and can't remember the last time I watched a band/drill team perform. During the game I'm aware they are playing but it's like background noise to what I'm really there to do, which is watch a football game. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't miss them if they stayed home.....
What's your story?

[BDB]

Yeah, but... Ok, here is what I would do if I were President. Bands would play only music that inspired. Music that makes you want to fight. No froggie went a courtin or West Side Story stuff. They would never stop marching while on the field and the creepin sideways feet slide would be outlawed. They would march in small quick steps facing the direction they are going. About 8 steps to every 5 yards. No concert formations and no solos. They would go from formation to formation without a jail break look. They would march from formation to formation. They would have about 10 majorettes and only one drum major.

The drummers would NEVER be allowed to do the coffee pot sound. That's not to inspire it's to make you want to go to the rest room.

i would assasinate you if you were president.

nothing personal, i would just have to kill either you or me if all bands were to sound like the aggy band....and i like myself....

ill take the drill team dancing to sweet georgia brown then the band preforming the music of king kong then THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN! THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN! THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN!

[Grlslvftball2]

Depending on how your band competes and at what level might have a part in your decision to or not to watch or even care about. Award winning bands are as respected and recognized as is football teams.

Lets face it band as in football....some bands are just very, very good and some are just not. :cool:

[twcpfan1]

Depending on how your band competes and at what level might have a part in your decision to or not to watch or even care about. Award winning bands are as respected and recognized as is football teams.

Lets face it band as in football....some bands are just very, very good and some are just not. :cool:

Depends on the style too. I have a kid in one of the Woodlands bands. Both are widely recognized to be very good. But I must admit, the marching style of both Woodlands schools is a little too complicated for the uncultured eye like mine, to try and appreciate. I believe they call it the corps style which I'm told is the same style for almost everybody that competes at the UIL level.

Personally, I prefer the military style like Lufkin's and A&M. Much easier to comprehend for non artsy types. Show bands like Westfield are also entertaining. Apologies if I got any of the terminology wrong.

[BDB]

Depends on the style too. I have a kid in one of the Woodlands bands. Both are widely recognized to be very good. But I must admit, the marching style of both Woodlands schools is a little too complicated for the uncultured eye like mine, to try and appreciate. I believe they call it the corps style which I'm told is the same style for almost everybody that competes at the UIL level.

Personally, I prefer the military style like Lufkin's and A&M. Much easier to comprehend for non artsy types. Show bands like Westfield are also entertaining. Apologies if I got any of the terminology wrong.

westfield is still corps style, just that they pick fun shows to do....the woodlands and LD Bell ususally choose more mysterious/thought out shows.

[twcpfan1]

...I must add that I do enjoy watching both Woodlands Drill teams a lot though. The Reveliers and Highsteppers are both very very good.

[DrEdward]

Tennessee Waltz is a great tune, but I'm kind of puzzled why the Dragon band would play it at games. Was there some Tennessee/Texas connection there?

Back in about '88, the Dragon Band's halftime show included Tenneessee Waltz and was very well played and well recevied that evening. Of course, that was also the year that Carroll went on to win its first state title in football. So due to popular demand, it was repeated by the band director in the playoff halftime routine for several additional state title runs. Of course, that was also back wihen the Dragon Band played songs I actually recognized, rather than the music they currently play in their competition programs.

[mojotrain]

i would assasinate you if you were president.

nothing personal, i would just have to kill either you or me if all bands were to sound like the aggy band....and i like myself....

ill take the drill team dancing to sweet georgia brown then the band preforming the music of king kong then THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN! THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN! THEYRE MAKING A LEFT TURN!

Don't shoot. Oh no not Aggie style. Don't blame you there. Like the highschools did up through the mid 90's. you know, the moving circles and diamonds. Maybe your not old enough to remember.

The dancing girls are good but I don't like the table dancing imitations. I'm just talking about the band.

If I were President you would be trapped on the other side of my fence.:D thats a joke.

[Magellan]

Back in about '88, the Dragon Band's halftime show included Tenneessee Waltz and was very well played and well recevied that evening. Of course, that was also the year that Carroll went on to win its first state title in football. So due to popular demand, it was repeated by the band director in the playoff halftime routine for several additional state title runs. Of course, that was also back wihen the Dragon Band played songs I actually recognized, rather than the music they currently play in their competition programs.

Try it being the other way. A lot of schools fight the opposite battle where they play stuff that works for their competition show, and of course the song-of-the-week for the drill team, but the students want top-40 stuff. That's the point where schools have student vs. student. Not a pretty picture.

[shooter]

Wow where do I start

So ur saying that instead of using the gas going to the Friday game we should use the gas to go on Monday just to practice... Gas is the same Monday as it is Friday... But on Friday the gas takes u to a football game!!!! cmon... As I said most of our games are at Tully... Even 2 away games are at Tully... Its the closest stadium... But ur saying the band shouldnt show up for the rivalry Stratford game? DUDE COME ON!


Ok first I'm not talking about you, me or the next guy i am talking about everyone in general. Come out of your Tully-World and see how some other schools will view this. I said in an earlier post on this thread that I live in an area and have kids going to NEISD schools. I live in the new Johnson catchment. All of the home games are played at Comalander stadium, and most of the away games too short of a drive to New braunfels 15min away. I understand what you are saying for YOU. But again we are not talking about just YOU. Look up how far these schools will drive to each away game: Lufkin, San Antonio Southwest, Victoria Memorial, and then also think that i am not just talking about 5A, look at what some of the 2A and 3A schools will go through. Is fair to let your Band perform at half just because they are close and then turn around and discourage Lufkin from bringing theirs on away trips because of the gas?

When I made the comment what is YOUR stadium doing on Monday night what i was saying is if you are thinking outside the Tully-Box about other schools you might see that when San Antonio Southwest plays Del Rio in Del Rio the savings on gas will be huge if they don't travel and practice at home in their empty stadium so they can get that "Stadium Experience"


I said West Texas is a different animal... But the major cities shouldnt have *much* of an issue with the gas prices...

Who said anything about JUST the major cities? I’m talking about everyone in whole. Is it fair that you get to play at away games for $1.00 a person while Eagle Pass would have to pay 20x the amount? Do we just tell poor kids stay home?


The band/drill team parents from the other team wouldnt go to ur game meaning ur school gets less money...


This shows how much your band and parents WANT to be at a FOOTBALL game. Lets call it what it is High School Football is no-longer player at a High School Football game, High School football is played at a local-area get together jamboree at a stadium. I guess that's what we should call it now as no one WANTS to go to a Football game. From now on it's "Friday Night Tully Stadium get together jamboree." Included in your ticket price for the Jamboree you will get dancing, music a place to sit with friends oh and if you pay attention you might just see a football game!


Read it all and tell me y we (our schools band) shouldnt go to every game


i never said your band should not go to every game, i said your band should not go to every away game.


If ur from San Marcus for example or Amarillo... I can understand y gas prices might become a factor... But I live in the burbs of a city surrounded by 5A high schools... Y should this ever be an issue for us?


It's not and when the smaller districts come asking for money (Robin Hood) so their band can travel 200 miles; make sure to fork the money over because your Band does not have to travel.


The idea here is saving $10 a person a year (assuming they dont just add the fee to the yearly payment) in order to eliminate the Friday Night Lights Atmosphere... I dont see how anybody could support this...


It would make me absolutly sick to have a football game with NO bands, they are awsome, I love them, I love watching halftime shows....

I just wish there was one not two that's all.

[shooter]

im not gonna lie, i love football. i love to watch my nephew play at the boys & girls club, i love to play a pick up game and most of all i love college football.

that being said, i know i wouldn't be able to handle the empty shell of an away side or being part of the emtpy shell week in and week out. as much as most of yall HATE the bands uil shows, you know they give you a tune to hum during the games and a song to either cheer for or detest after a score.

i really doubt that transportation can't be fixed in other areas (if you're band isn't self sufficient) for 5 trips (for most schools) to a city most people travel to regularly.

sadly, if you take the clubs and organizations out of the game, it's gonna be nothing more then a scrimmage (only wanting to know the end result) for most people.

Can you hum it up to one Band? or do you have to have two?

[shooter]

I am more than willing to give the drill team, band, and cheerleader boosters a little more for their merchandise to keep this part of Texas football alive this year. I lived in New York for ten years and standing on the sidelines on Saturday morning (10 am) just did not cut the mustard. Our groups are what sets Texas aside from the rest. Are we willing to begin the destruction of Texas football because of a silly few more tax dollars from added fuel costs. I own houses in two different school districts and both voted to raise taxes this year. Did I run down to Lowe's to purchase 'For Sale' signs that Sunday morning, no. When Lufkin was in the Klein district, their band got a standing ovation at every game here at Klein Memorial as well as when Humble or Kingwood visited. New York shooter needs to shoot on back up to Poughkeepsie and keep his/her radical Yankee a$$ ideas there. They would welcome him/her there. Can't wait to see what team this punk starts off supporting this year and then ends up on the bandwagon with. And I also can't wait to see the Willowridge band in the parades this year. You know they will be there.

Signed,
Former member of the Pasadena High School Orange Bowl Grand Marshall winner
and 'The University of Houston Cougar Band of Tomorrow, Today - 1976

Any body need donations to send their band to the Presidential Inaugauration this year, PM me I will be more than willing to help. No kidding.

P.S. Was shooter at the Governor's Mansion recently?


I think i am well educated enough and been here long enough to understand that a thread on the 5Atexasfootball message board is not going to incite a revolution of any kind. It's a discussion and i know at the end of this discussion I will loose, my thoughts and views will be tossed out as foolish and how did you put it "radical Yankee a$$ ideas" will be put down as just plain "Crap-o-la"

For the Record, I was born in Houston lived in Texas all of my life except for two years in Bama. I am a proud supporter of Johnson High School in San Antonio Texas, and will defend my 265 to the end as the greatest district in the State. I will also back my fellow Region IV representatives in the Simi-Final round every year and have done so for many. If you wish to call that a BANDwagon then I am ON it my friend and proud to be here.

I see, understand and respect your opinion on this subject. I respect it enough to see that it will (in the end HERE) be the victor, and even though we have never met I respect you for having a passion and a voice. I respect you enough to not call you names or assume I know anything about you or who you are or where you come from. I respect the fact that this forum give ALL of us an arena to throw out new Ideas and talk through different opinions.

AND I respect you enough to accept your apology for calling at 38 year old man and father of two a "PUNK"

[shooter]

Yeah, but... Ok, here is what I would do if I were President. Bands would play only music that inspired. Music that makes you want to fight. No froggie went a courtin or West Side Story stuff. They would never stop marching while on the field and the creepin sideways feet slide would be outlawed. They would march in small quick steps facing the direction they are going. About 8 steps to every 5 yards. No concert formations and no solos. They would go from formation to formation without a jail break look. They would march from formation to formation. They would have about 10 majorettes and only one drum major.

The drummers would NEVER be allowed to do the coffee pot sound. That's not to inspire it's to make you want to go to the rest room.

If this came to be I would vote for 4 bands at every game and half time to be 2 hours long!!!

I have seen the light it's not the gas or the length of time I have to endure during half time it's the "creepin sideways feet slide" I have a problem with. I have seen the light

And to think i was cured by someone in WEST Texas; who would have thunk it.

Side Note For Everyone: I would never advocate for anything more than two Bands per football game. I think 20 min for half time is way to long. The "creepin sideways feet slide" looks very natural to me and I am teaching my 4 year old daughter how to do it right now. I love West Texas and spent some time in Lubbock. “Thunk” is not a word.

[shooter]

Try it being the other way. A lot of schools fight the opposite battle where they play stuff that works for their competition show, and of course the song-of-the-week for the drill team, but the students want top-40 stuff. That's the point where schools have student vs. student. Not a pretty picture.

I can name a couple of Bands around here that will never win a competition or even a first runner-up blue ribbon division II trophy. i have always asked myself why do these Bands continue to try and be something they are not? If the Kids want to play 50-cents, well play 50-cents at least it will attract more kids to Band, right? I think sometimes it's the size of the band directors head that gets in the way of me seeing a good fun Band more than anything.

[TulsaHale74]

If this came to be I would vote for 4 bands at every game and half time to be 2 hours long!!!

I have seen the light it's not the gas or the length of time I have to endure during half time it's the "creepin sideways feet slide" I have a problem with. I have seen the light

And to think i was cured by someone in WEST Texas; who would have thunk it.

Side Note For Everyone: I would never advocate for anything more than two Bands per football game. I think 20 min for half time is way to long. The "creepin sideways feet slide" looks very natural to me and I am teaching my 4 year old daughter how to do it right now. I love West Texas and spent some time in Lubbock. “Thunk” is not a word.
The crux of the argument is highlighted. It's not about bands; it's not about money. It's about time.

I don't know if I can go to the restroom and get through the concession stand line in less than 20 minutes. I go to the concession stand for my wife, so eliminating that isn't an option. If the halftime was less than 20 minutes, I'd have to use my previous advice and wear Depends.:eek:

[twcpfan1]

Hey Shooter

Let's save even more money on gas. Why do we even play other schools in football?

We can spend 10 - 15 weeks a year just having weekly inter squad games. There will be no travelling. It's still HS football, right? Anyone who truly loves the game will show up for it each week. We can cancel playoffs altogether since it's the biggest drain on the travelling budget.

I guess my point is, a question can be raised about spending on just about anything that we do.

edit: apparently you've seen the light so nevermind. Now you all can argue about the length of the halftime show. Keep in mind, older people need time to go to the crapper.

[MemorialMustangs]

Ok first I'm not talking about you, me or the next guy i am talking about everyone in general. Come out of your Tully-World and see how some other schools will view this. I said in an earlier post on this thread that I live in an area and have kids going to NEISD schools. I live in the new Johnson catchment. All of the home games are played at Comalander stadium, and most of the away games too short of a drive to New braunfels 15min away. I understand what you are saying for YOU. But again we are not talking about just YOU. Look up how far these schools will drive to each away game: Lufkin, San Antonio Southwest, Victoria Memorial, and then also think that i am not just talking about 5A, look at what some of the 2A and 3A schools will go through. Is fair to let your Band perform at half just because they are close and then turn around and discourage Lufkin from bringing theirs on away trips because of the gas?

When I made the comment what is YOUR stadium doing on Monday night what i was saying is if you are thinking outside the Tully-Box about other schools you might see that when San Antonio Southwest plays Del Rio in Del Rio the savings on gas will be huge if they don't travel and practice at home in their empty stadium so they can get that "Stadium Experience"

First most bands do not go to out of state games... But we go to every game... So is ur arguement now gonna be that we should all skip 1 game because some football team is goin out of state and their band cant go?

Ok here are the numbers i got through research yes I looked this up:
-15mpg highway for buses
-$4.68 a gallon for diesel (todays price)
-Most buses CAN hold 62 people but ill be nice and say 40 people per bus again for comfort
-153 Miles (from city center to city center)

$1.1934 per person one way so
$2.3868 per person for the full trip... So ur saying its too much for each person to pay $2.39... This makes no sense... And remember this is the LONG trip that u purposely identified to *prove my arguement wrong*... Most of their trips arent that long... And if 2.39 is too much per person then start a fundraiser to make 2.39 per person... If money is ur real issue with bringing two bands to a game... Which I dont think it is

And what about rivalry games... Would it be the same without that student participation?

Who said anything about JUST the major cities? I’m talking about everyone in whole. Is it fair that you get to play at away games for $1.00 a person while Eagle Pass would have to pay 20x the amount? Do we just tell poor kids stay home?

And no... We do fundraisers for stuff... It wouldnt be as bad as u think it is to pay for every trip... Im just saying... I understand if people cant go... But is it right to take away from the people that CAN go... My school has its homecoming in a nice hotel and has 1 of the most expensive senior proms (im not in charge of this but they earn it through fundraisers)... But are u going to say that even though we earned that money we cant use it because other people didnt earn that money... I mean sure its capitalistic... But its like saying I know u have 50 cows but u can only sell/eat 2 because ur neighbor only has 2...

This shows how much your band and parents WANT to be at a FOOTBALL game. Lets call it what it is High School Football is no-longer player at a High School Football game, High School football is played at a local-area get together jamboree at a stadium. I guess that's what we should call it now as no one WANTS to go to a Football game. From now on it's "Friday Night Tully Stadium get together jamboree." Included in your ticket price for the Jamboree you will get dancing, music a place to sit with friends oh and if you pay attention you might just see a football game!

Ur right my single mom could care less about the football game... And ur right some people (band associated) dont care about going to the football game... But that is a huge stereotype... Most of my friends are so excited for football season u cannot imagine... And yes we watch the football game... We dont sit during the game and I watch when I play songs... I litterally move to where I can see the game while im playing...

i never said your band should not go to every game, i said your band should not go to every away game.

well if we cant go to away games then we cant go to every single game can we? I know as much as I want to go if I wasnt in band I could not make it to EVERY single game... But I want to go to EVERY single game

It's not and when the smaller districts come asking for money (Robin Hood) so their band can travel 200 miles; make sure to fork the money over because your Band does not have to travel.

Well since I (or our district for that matter) cant stop them from taking our money this is pointless... And the amount of money they take... That 200 miles of diesel fuel would look tiny and insignificant in comparison...

It would make me absolutly sick to have a football game with NO bands, they are awsome, I love them, I love watching halftime shows....

I just wish there was one not two that's all.

Once again we come back to the time issue... And I told u twice that it has nothing to do with us... U should take it too the UIL... They are not strict and other people take advantage of it... And halftime is important... I think 20 minutes is the perfect length for it... Football isnt exactly a relaxed laidback sport here in Texas... So y do u expect them to be robots and be able to play 48 minutes straight (please understand that is an exaggeration... Im afraid ull take it seriously)

[shooter]

Hey Shooter

Let's save even more money on gas. Why do we even play other schools in football?

We can spend 10 - 15 weeks a year just having weekly inter squad games. There will be no travelling. It's still HS football, right? Anyone who truly loves the game will show up for it each week. We can cancel playoffs altogether since it's the biggest drain on the travelling budget.

I guess my point is, a question can be raised about spending on just about anything that we do.

edit: apparently you've seen the light so nevermind. Now you all can argue about the length of the halftime show. Keep in mind, older people need time to go to the crapper.


Inter-squad interesting... you loose some of that competitive spirit but i would be there.

[yankee]

as someone who marched all 4 years of high school i have a few things to say...

1) try not to stereotype the band parents and kids...yeah there are some parent that don't give a rat's :Censor: about the game but there are many that truly enjoy being there. as for the kids, they're some of the most dedicated fans you can find. we really got into the games...i'll miss being a part of something like that.

2) the halftimes can seem be too long, i agree. after doing our show, i hated sitting around while the other band performed because i didn't care what they did and it seemed to drag on. but most if not all the bands, at least in our area, compete with the uil rules so their shows have to be under 7:30ish minutes long. what drags it out is the fight song and their dance girls.

3) not bringing the bands to away games just doesn't make sense. with all the money parent have to contribute to the band program, to go to 5 games in a 10 week span is complete hogwash. gas prices blah blah blah. if districts have no problem whisking around athletes to events around the state then there should be no problem with 30 minute bus rides for the band. the bands are there for support, whether it helps anybody out or not.

just my .02

[shooter]

First most bands do not go to out of state games... But we go to every game... So is ur arguement now gonna be that we should all skip 1 game because some football team is goin out of state and their band cant go?

Ok here are the numbers i got through research yes I looked this up:
-15mpg highway for buses
-$4.68 a gallon for diesel (todays price)
-Most buses CAN hold 62 people but ill be nice and say 40 people per bus again for comfort
-153 Miles (from city center to city center)

$1.1934 per person one way so
$2.3868 per person for the full trip... So ur saying its too much for each person to pay $2.39... This makes no sense... And remember this is the LONG trip that u purposely identified to *prove my arguement wrong*... Most of their trips arent that long... And if 2.39 is too much per person then start a fundraiser to make 2.39 per person... If money is ur real issue with bringing two bands to a game... Which I dont think it is

And what about rivalry games... Would it be the same without that student participation?



And no... We do fundraisers for stuff... It wouldnt be as bad as u think it is to pay for every trip... Im just saying... I understand if people cant go... But is it right to take away from the people that CAN go... My school has its homecoming in a nice hotel and has 1 of the most expensive senior proms (im not in charge of this but they earn it through fundraisers)... But are u going to say that even though we earned that money we cant use it because other people didnt earn that money... I mean sure its capitalistic... But its like saying I know u have 50 cows but u can only sell/eat 2 because ur neighbor only has 2...



Ur right my single mom could care less about the football game... And ur right some people (band associated) dont care about going to the football game... But that is a huge stereotype... Most of my friends are so excited for football season u cannot imagine... And yes we watch the football game... We dont sit during the game and I watch when I play songs... I litterally move to where I can see the game while im playing...



well if we cant go to away games then we cant go to every single game can we? I know as much as I want to go if I wasnt in band I could not make it to EVERY single game... But I want to go to EVERY single game



Well since I (or our district for that matter) cant stop them from taking our money this is pointless... And the amount of money they take... That 200 miles of diesel fuel would look tiny and insignificant in comparison...



Once again we come back to the time issue... And I told u twice that it has nothing to do with us... U should take it too the UIL... They are not strict and other people take advantage of it... And halftime is important... I think 20 minutes is the perfect length for it... Football isnt exactly a relaxed laidback sport here in Texas... So y do u expect them to be robots and be able to play 48 minutes straight (please understand that is an exaggeration... Im afraid ull take it seriously)

Your points are very well taken I will bullet my response.

. I never Said anything about Out Of State Games.
. If we are going to charge the Band $2.39 we should charge the football team the same, and while we are at it those pads, chin straps, helmets, socks they all cost money too so lets make everything in High School fee based. Your right that would defiantly defeat my argument. And those desk! gotta get a little cash for those too.
. Your Math makes perfect since.
. Why would the students not participate? You said your self you don't sit down you watch the game, why would that change?
. Your school Government is not anywhere near capitalism. Not that I agree with it but it is what it is.
. I'll expand your cow analogy for you. You have 50 cows you can only hunt and slaughter for fun and waist only 2 cows because that is all your neighbor can afford to waist. The rest you can use for food, clothing and shelter you don't have to share your food, clothing or shelter with your neighbor, but for FUN only two.
. I am glad you are an avid football fan I don't see what being in the band has to do with your love for the sport. If you lips fell off tonight and you could not play your instrument would you love football any less?
. I never said you CAN'T go to away games. Pile in your car drive to the away game on your dime purchase a ticket, yell scream all you want, bring a drum if it makes you feel more comfortable or play your instrument. Please don't stop coming it will make you look very stereotypical like you said before.
. Your right you can't stop them.
. I understand your point about the time. As I said before I want the Home team Band to perform for a good 18 min. Go over if you have to a little. Give the Band MORE time on the field so they can practice more of their routine, they can have more time for their supporters to watch, they can have more time to showcase what they do best. Just don't have two Bands playing for 14min each (28min half) have one Band perform for 18min or even 20min. I want the Band to have more time not less, it's almost a travesty to watch a Band perform their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th segments of their UIL performance piece only because they don't have more time because they are sharing the field with another Band.

[shooter]

The crux of the argument is highlighted. It's not about bands; it's not about money. It's about time.

I don't know if I can go to the restroom and get through the concession stand line in less than 20 minutes. I go to the concession stand for my wife, so eliminating that isn't an option. If the halftime was less than 20 minutes, I'd have to use my previous advice and wear Depends.:eek:

sorry i ment 2 hours long not 20 min it's just getting late.

[BDB]

Don't shoot. Oh no not Aggie style. Don't blame you there. Like the highschools did up through the mid 90's. you know, the moving circles and diamonds. Maybe your not old enough to remember.

The dancing girls are good but I don't like the table dancing imitations. I'm just talking about the band.

If I were President you would be trapped on the other side of my fence.:D thats a joke.

honestly, i think this is what halftime should be like this (the begging is the slow part of their show, but it picks up after 1 minute) cadets 03 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugn9Wpk9hxY)

or something recognizable like the music of james bond- the cavaliers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeBhGYQFXkQ) or the godfather part blue- blue devils (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VLVIKxKM2A)

[dragonpants]

You don't like C&W???? Sad. Obviously a man with little taste in music. A dislikee for rap and heavy metal I can understand. But C&W?? In Texas?? Tenneessee Waltz was at one time a Dragon tradition at playoff games (and should be again). Ignore this guy's music opinions from now on. :rolleyes::D

I am a Yankee and have done everything I can to be a Texan but Doc it hurts my ears, all that twanging and yes you and I probably do not have similar music tastes but I will not hold it against you if you do the same.:D

[HebronHawk]

First most bands do not go to out of state games... But we go to every game... So is ur arguement now gonna be that we should all skip 1 game because some football team is goin out of state and their band cant go?

Ok here are the numbers i got through research yes I looked this up:
-15mpg highway for buses
-$4.68 a gallon for diesel (todays price)
-Most buses CAN hold 62 people but ill be nice and say 40 people per bus again for comfort
-153 Miles (from city center to city center)

$1.1934 per person one way so
$2.3868 per person for the full trip... So ur saying its too much for each person to pay $2.39... This makes no sense... And remember this is the LONG trip that u purposely identified to *prove my arguement wrong*... Most of their trips arent that long... And if 2.39 is too much per person then start a fundraiser to make 2.39 per person... If money is ur real issue with bringing two bands to a game... Which I dont think it is

And what about rivalry games... Would it be the same without that student participation?



And no... We do fundraisers for stuff... It wouldnt be as bad as u think it is to pay for every trip... Im just saying... I understand if people cant go... But is it right to take away from the people that CAN go... My school has its homecoming in a nice hotel and has 1 of the most expensive senior proms (im not in charge of this but they earn it through fundraisers)... But are u going to say that even though we earned that money we cant use it because other people didnt earn that money... I mean sure its capitalistic... But its like saying I know u have 50 cows but u can only sell/eat 2 because ur neighbor only has 2...



Ur right my single mom could care less about the football game... And ur right some people (band associated) dont care about going to the football game... But that is a huge stereotype... Most of my friends are so excited for football season u cannot imagine... And yes we watch the football game... We dont sit during the game and I watch when I play songs... I litterally move to where I can see the game while im playing...



well if we cant go to away games then we cant go to every single game can we? I know as much as I want to go if I wasnt in band I could not make it to EVERY single game... But I want to go to EVERY single game



Well since I (or our district for that matter) cant stop them from taking our money this is pointless... And the amount of money they take... That 200 miles of diesel fuel would look tiny and insignificant in comparison...



Once again we come back to the time issue... And I told u twice that it has nothing to do with us... U should take it too the UIL... They are not strict and other people take advantage of it... And halftime is important... I think 20 minutes is the perfect length for it... Football isnt exactly a relaxed laidback sport here in Texas... So y do u expect them to be robots and be able to play 48 minutes straight (please understand that is an exaggeration... Im afraid ull take it seriously)

First of all, unless you are going to buy a charter bus, you will have to pay their prices. Of course, you can ride the "big yellows" that the school district has if you are a kid.

The charter companies are going to charge something above cost.

I am currently holding a live charter bus bid for Sept. 2008 for a trip from the Metroplex to Abilene and back. It is $3.72 per mile.

It is cheaper for 3 people to take the bus than to travel together on the trip by personal vehicle.

[HebronHawk]

I remember a playoff game last year where our band left after halftime for a competition.

One of the things they do at the end of the game is play the school song for our side.

Without the band, it was silent until.......................

Our "Silver Wings" (competition dance team) stood up in the stands and led the school song a cappella. They did a great job and showed a lot of school spirit. :notworthy

[slorch]

Hey Shooter

Let's save even more money on gas. Why do we even play other schools in football?

We can spend 10 - 15 weeks a year just having weekly inter squad games. There will be no travelling. It's still HS football, right? Anyone who truly loves the game will show up for it each week. We can cancel playoffs altogether since it's the biggest drain on the travelling budget.

I guess my point is, a question can be raised about spending on just about anything that we do.

edit: apparently you've seen the light so nevermind. Now you all can argue about the length of the halftime show. Keep in mind, older people need time to go to the crapper.

sometimes playing intersquad is better than some of your District foes...

signed,
Lufkin;)

[slorch]

Your points are very well taken I will bullet my response.

.. If we are going to charge the Band $2.39 we should charge the football team the same, and while we are at it those pads, chin straps, helmets, socks they all cost money too so lets make everything in High School fee based. Your right that would defiantly defeat my argument. And those desk! gotta get a little cash for those too.
.

go ahead and take it out of the gate...

stop acting like people show up just for the band because when they have the band contests, it's not like they have 5k fans watching.

Does band make a contribution to the game? absolutely.

Does the band pay for itself? no way.

Do I as a taxpayer believe it is good to subsidize the activity for all of these kids to participate and learn some life lessons? definitely.

Do I hate seeing elitist/ selfish parents leave the game after they see their kids perform at halftime? Yep, i want to trip em and pour soda on em. They act like their kids activities are so important for the school, but they leave when their kids ar done. I hate it!

We are teaching our kids how to act, in so many different ways.

[DrEdward]

I am a Yankee and have done everything I can to be a Texan but Doc it hurts my ears, all that twanging and yes you and I probably do not have similar music tastes but I will not hold it against you if you do the same.:D

Did you buy a pick-up? Preferably an old one. All their radios were pretuned to the C&W stations and you couldn't change them because the knob was broken. :cool: I spent 11 years in Connecticut prior to moving to Texas and hardly ever listened to the stuff (since you couldn't find it on the radio stations there.) Moved to Texas and the sound really started to grow on me. But I appreciate most all forms, from classical to Big Band to 60s and 70s, to doo wop to C&W, save for rap and heavy metal. Besides, there is nothing quite like driving from Amarillo to here at night listening to the sounds of Texas small town radio stations.

[MemorialMustangs]

Your points are very well taken I will bullet my response.

. I never Said anything about Out Of State Games.

I know u didnt... I was just talking about how some coaches pick long trips... And their bands cant go to it... Therefore their band goes to 9 games... U were saying if some bands only go to 5 games all bands should go to 5 games... So if because of this some bands go to 9 games... We should all go to 9 games right?

. If we are going to charge the Band $2.39 we should charge the football team the same, and while we are at it those pads, chin straps, helmets, socks they all cost money too so lets make everything in High School fee based. Your right that would defiantly defeat my argument. And those desk! gotta get a little cash for those too.

Are u saying band is cheap... Stop by a store and check the prices of the instruments... And repairs arent cheap either... If u are lucky enough to get a school owned instrument they drain u with insurance fees... And then the band fees in general... Im not saying I want this based on fees... Im saying if it comes down to Id rather pay than not play.

. Your Math makes perfect since.
. Why would the students not participate? You said your self you don't sit down you watch the game, why would that change?

My mom is single... doesnt care about the game... I dont own a car myself yet... It costs more money for me that way... and curfew is an issue at away games even if I go with a couple friends...

. Your school Government is not anywhere near capitalism. Not that I agree with it but it is what it is.
. I'll expand your cow analogy for you. You have 50 cows you can only hunt and slaughter for fun and waist only 2 cows because that is all your neighbor can afford to waist. The rest you can use for food, clothing and shelter you don't have to share your food, clothing or shelter with your neighbor, but for FUN only two.
. I am glad you are an avid football fan I don't see what being in the band has to do with your love for the sport. If you lips fell off tonight and you could not play your instrument would you love football any less?

No but as explained above I wouldnt be able to go to every game... So as an avid football fan... Do I want to go to every game... Or would I rather go to 7 games

. I never said you CAN'T go to away games. Pile in your car drive to the away game on your dime purchase a ticket, yell scream all you want, bring a drum if it makes you feel more comfortable or play your instrument. Please don't stop coming it will make you look very stereotypical like you said before.

^^

. Your right you can't stop them.
. I understand your point about the time. As I said before I want the Home team Band to perform for a good 18 min. Go over if you have to a little. Give the Band MORE time on the field so they can practice more of their routine, they can have more time for their supporters to watch, they can have more time to showcase what they do best. Just don't have two Bands playing for 14min each (28min half) have one Band perform for 18min or even 20min. I want the Band to have more time not less, it's almost a travesty to watch a Band perform their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th segments of their UIL performance piece only because they don't have more time because they are sharing the field with another Band.

The problem with home team 18 mins to perform... What would they do... They have (if they participate in UIL) an 8 minute or less show (95% of bands)... What do they do for the final 10 minutes... And look im not saying band is football, but believe it or not its not exactly easy to march for a long time... The dumb uniform makes it 200 degrees and adds weight... And if u have a decent sized instrument (and u carry it the way ur supposed to)... It hurts... I mean 25 pounds is nothing for a while... But if all the weight is on ur arms and u hold it tilted up... It does burn later... And when u have to go fast its like sprinting because of the way ur supposed to march... And u have to keep ur upper body still... Im not complaining just saying physically it is more demanding than people give it credit for...

They did a test on a DCI guy on ESPN and he had the heart rate of a marathon runner and the breathing rate of a sprinter for the whole show... Albeit they are on a higher level (and I dont follow DCI I ran into this on youtube lol)... They did this experiment on a drummer, someone who doesnt use their air to play the instrument... Once again Im not complaining... just saying - going 18 minutes is more difficult than u think sitting up there in the stands...
to lazy to unquote and requote lol

[Grlslvftball2]

Do I hate seeing elitist/ selfish parents leave the game after they see their kids perform at halftime? Yep, i want to trip em and pour soda on em. They act like their kids activities are so important for the school, but they leave when their kids ar done. I hate it!

We are teaching our kids how to act, in so many different ways.



I couldn't agree more, but what about the "football parents, students and misc fans" that also pile out as soon as "their team" is losing way before the game is over???

[MemorialMustangs]

I couldn't agree more, but what about the "football parents, students and misc fans" that also pile out as soon as "their team" is losing way before the game is over???

hear that Stratford :p :D

[DrEdward]

First most bands do not go to out of state games... But we go to every game... So is ur arguement now gonna be that we should all skip 1 game because some football team is goin out of state and their band cant go?

Ok here are the numbers i got through research yes I looked this up:
-15mpg highway for buses
-$4.68 a gallon for diesel (todays price)
-Most buses CAN hold 62 people but ill be nice and say 40 people per bus again for comfort
-153 Miles (from city center to city center)

$1.1934 per person one way so
$2.3868 per person for the full trip... So ur saying its too much for each person to pay $2.39... This makes no sense... And remember this is the LONG trip that u purposely identified to *prove my arguement wrong*... Most of their trips arent that long... And if 2.39 is too much per person then start a fundraiser to make 2.39 per person... If money is ur real issue with bringing two bands to a game... Which I dont think it is




If anyone is still interested, I went back to the assumption I set forward earlier. If you convert those numbers to a per person expenditure, the fugure comes to a weighted average of $2.82 per person per away game to transport the band, the drill team and the cheerleaders. The figure is substantially the same as that which MM calculated, considering the variation in the estimates. My per person estimate is higher as a result of the two long trips in the playoffs. If I simply assume that all trips are within the Metroplex. then the average number decreases to only $1.49 person per away game for transportation.

[DragonBand06]

honestly, i think this is what halftime should be like this (the begging is the slow part of their show, but it picks up after 1 minute) cadets 03 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugn9Wpk9hxY)

or something recognizable like the music of james bond- the cavaliers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeBhGYQFXkQ) or the godfather part blue- blue devils (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VLVIKxKM2A)

I would KILL to have a DCI corps perform at our halftime... actually, there's certainly enough money in Southlake parents... I need to start a fundraiser! :D

[slorch]

I couldn't agree more, but what about the "football parents, students and misc fans" that also pile out as soon as "their team" is losing way before the game is over???

wrong too. I do not do that, because the kids deserve our support. They work hard and should have their commitment reflected back to them by us.

[HebronHawk]

Did you buy a pick-up? Preferably an old one. All their radios were pretuned to the C&W stations and you couldn't change them because the knob was broken. :cool: I spent 11 years in Connecticut prior to moving to Texas and hardly ever listened to the stuff (since you couldn't find it on the radio stations there.) Moved to Texas and the sound really started to grow on me. But I appreciate most all forms, from classical to Big Band to 60s and 70s, to doo wop to C&W, save for rap and heavy metal. Besides, there is nothing quite like driving from Amarillo to here at night listening to the sounds of Texas small town radio stations.

Do they still exist?

[HebronHawk]

I couldn't agree more, but what about the "football parents, students and misc fans" that also pile out as soon as "their team" is losing way before the game is over???

I see that happen at Newman Smith and RL Turner a lot. :D

[DrEdward]

Do they still exist?

Not as numerous as they once were - damn new fangled satellite radios. Takes away lots of character (even though I do have one.)

[BDB]

I would KILL to have a DCI corps perform at our halftime... actually, there's certainly enough money in Southlake parents... I need to start a fundraiser! :D

it wouldn't be in my right mindframe, i would be amped up from a football game, then have to flip it to music mode to appreciate seein somethin like that.

maybe that's why i never took games as seriously as competitions...i was always more worried about the score then what i was suppossed to be worried about during halftime.

[Grlslvftball2]

wrong too. I do not do that, because the kids deserve our support. They work hard and should have their commitment reflected back to them by us.



Go back and read what I said. I never said YOU did it, but unfortunately it does happen.
My point was that the ones that do leave early are not any better than the band parents that may leave after half-time.


OK I'm done with this thread :)

[slorch]

Go back and read what I said. I never said YOU did it, but unfortunately it does happen.
My point was that the ones that do leave early are not any better than the band parents that may leave after half-time.


OK I'm done with this thread :)

I was agrreeing with you that the other parents were wrong too, not you.

I apologize for my communication shortcomings.:o

[Grlslvftball2]

I was agrreeing with you that the other parents were wrong too, not you.

I apologize for my communication shortcomings.:o


Oh, ok, I get it. When you were saying "wrong too" I thought you were saying I was wrong...and you meant it was wrong for those ppl to leave early as well....Glad we cleared that up;)

[HebronHawk]

Not as numerous as they once were - damn new fangled satellite radios. Takes away lots of character (even though I do have one.)

XM keeps chasing after me with 1/2 price subscription offers but I stay old style.

My G35 is XM equipped.

[slcdragonfan]

Did you buy a pick-up? Preferably an old one. All their radios were pretuned to the C&W stations and you couldn't change them because the knob was broken. :cool: I spent 11 years in Connecticut prior to moving to Texas and hardly ever listened to the stuff (since you couldn't find it on the radio stations there.) Moved to Texas and the sound really started to grow on me. But I appreciate most all forms, from classical to Big Band to 60s and 70s, to doo wop to C&W, save for rap and heavy metal. Besides, there is nothing quite like driving from Amarillo to here at night listening to the sounds of Texas small town radio stations.

Try Gulf Coast Highway by Emmylou Harris and see if that doesn't get you somewhere. I'm not much of a country fan myself (having grown up in Houston, then lived in Oklahoma for 11 years, and now in Southlake for 7 years what the heck is wrong with me?!), but not everything you hear on the radio represents country. Me, I'd be fine with some Freddie Hubbard, or Dave Brubeck, or Al Di Meola, but those don't really rhyme with Friday Night and a football stadium.