What is it about Permian?

[mojotrain]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

[dada]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

jealousy and kicking a man while he's down.

[jrock210]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

OK I'm 17 and a friend of my Dad's in the army went to Permian and played football for one of the teams in the mid 90s and he had alot of game film from the 80s (my favorite was the 88 semis against Carter) so I know alot about Permian and I loved watching the videos and to be honest that's how I got so into High School Football.
Also, I go to Judson where we have a tradition of winning (obviously) and I know what it's like to be hated but I get over it. Permian is a school I have alot of respect for the same as Trinity (even though they have beat us the last 2 times for the state titles) I believe when you win you have a large chunk of jealous people and they secretly deep down inside they want to say "That happened to me" or "that movie was based on my school" that's how I felt when I heard Judson has people wanting to make a movie about them but than I heard Rutledge and Rackley shot down the idea I was disappointed and thought "I wish they showed the true state champs that year in the movie"

It is all good no worries just enjoy the respect. Liked by few, hated by many, respected by all.....that's all you need to say

[GoOwls]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

Permain and Plano, in that close order, were easily the monsters of this state in the 1970's and 80's...the kids today have no idea how much fear those two teams put on other teams.....we didn't really care about Permian, but when we got to listen to a Permian radio broadcast, we were there....just to listen to the legend.

[GBMonster76]

As you know, I'm from Florida, and I would say with confidence that anyone with solid "football knowledge" from this state, and I would assume from Texas too, does not "hate" Permian at all. I'm fairly young and I truly get why Permian should be so respected...amazing tradition, amazing community support, amazing football success, etc...

Don't worry...football people get why Permain is so special.

But, and I say this with complete confidence too... nowadays when people think about Texas HS football from other states, especially Florida, they think of SLC, period.

Southlake Carroll is the new Permian as far as I'm concerned...at least from a fear and dominance point of view.

[Shoot2thrill]

Why do so many dislike Permian?

You know train I never have viewed Mojo as a disliked program and I come from your old district. Geez those "old district" words were hard to type.:( For so long, you were the benchmark high school programs measured themselves by. Plano High is the only school that sniffed (and then took their share of) your rarified air.

Back in the 70s when we played you, it seemed we were down 14 points when we got off the bus. Thats the kind of aura and mystique Mojo carried back then and that SLC carries now. When we put together that 7 or 8 game win streak against you that ended last year, I was ready to die a happy man because I thought I would NEVER see the day that AHS would own Mojo- including taking you down 3 times in a row in your house. Up until then, all we had to hang our hat on was the 7-7 tie back in 1985. Yes, there was a period where I enjoyed anytime someone took you down as it is good to see the king humbled every so often. I never let my momentary enjoyment turn into schadenfreude though.

I know this much. I was always glad to say you were our district mates and that you would represent us well in the playoffs.:notworthy There is and always will be some disdain for those that are doing the arse kicking. Take it from someone who has been taken to the woodshed enough times.;)

[mojoguy]

You mean people don't like us? Wait, is it the recruiting or the extra super-secret practices that make them hate us? Oh I know, it must be our lousy education system and terrible lack of funding for schools. Who has money for books and teachers when your football team needs new towels anyway?! :rolleyes:

[mojoguy]

You know train I never have viewed Mojo as a disliked program and I come from your old district. Geez those "old district" words were hard to type.:( For so long, you were the benchmark high school programs measured themselves by. Plano High is the only school that sniffed (and then took their share of) your rarified air.

Back in the 70s when we played you, it seemed we were down 14 points when we got off the bus. Thats the kind of aura and mystique Mojo carried back then and that SLC carries now. When we put together that 7 or 8 game win streak against you that ended last year, I was ready to die a happy man because I thought I would NEVER see the day that AHS would own Mojo- including taking you down 3 times in a row in your house. Up until then, all we had to hang our hat on was the 7-7 tie back in 1985. Yes, there was a period where I enjoyed anytime someone took you down as it is good to see the king humbled every so often. I never let my momentary enjoyment turn into schadenfreude though.

I know this much. I was always glad to say you were our district mates and that you would represent us well in the playoffs.:notworthy There is and always will be some disdain for those that are doing the arse kicking. Take it from someone who has been taken to the woodshed enough times.;)

We had our epic battles, and they will come again. I have faith. On the bright side, now our old district gets a chance to win three districts at a time!

[Mustangman21]

To me Odessa Permian is the face of texas football and always will be in my book. With plano and Highland park being a close second. My personal favorite is the 1980 29-19 win over port arthur good game all around. The southlake carrolls and katys, trinity's are great but as far as being on the mojo of old's level I just dont see it. I know to me our team (grapevine) was never afraid of slc, took them to the wire 1 year. Obviously they wrecked shop for a good portion of this decade but I dont know why people would fear them more like respect them to me.

[The Great Evaluator]

No hate hear, I truly appreciate all of the dynasty's. Permian was 2nd to none back in the day but SLC and Katy carry that distinction now. Trinity is starting to make a case but they need a couple more trophy's to get in to that discussion.

[Empire strikes back]

Mojotrain, its "jealousy"! Beleive me I know, just ask the coaches at o'connor. Those who bad mouths teams that win alot other than defending themselves, shows their own fear and ignorance. Their jealous because the fact that they can't accomplish what Permian, Abilene high, Judson, SLC, Katy, and yes Brownwood did. Mojotrain, if I was you and someone that hated Permian is around me every day, keep smiling everytime knowing for a fact that Permian is better than that person's team, until they make a negitive remark about Permian, then shove Permian's accomplishments down their throat.



_______________________________________

Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest

[abilenefan]

It is interesting to read all of the varied opinions on this and other boards. I have never seen Permian as a hated program. Envied but not hated. I agree with most of what has been posted. I think most of the old LSWC was ready and anticipating the return of MOJO. I think statewide that MOJO is respected so much that even after two decent seasons the statewide media is giving way too much respect to a prorgram that has been down and out for 6-8 years prior. In my humble opinion the verdict is still out as to whether Permian has turned the ship. Permian was the talent class of this district the prior two seasons. I think next year will be more telling because although you have returning talent coaching and program will be much more of a factor. JMHO. Go MOJO!

[abilenefan]

I also agree with Permian being the face of Texas High School Football. I only see Southlake with any possibility of replacing that any time soon. If Permian were to win another title in the next 2-3 years then it would be solid for another 10 years.

[AboutTreeFiddy]

I read FNL and thought it was interesting, but knew it was filled with half-truths and stretched others. I first learned of Odessa Permian when doing research on Longview's history, reading about the 1975 Semifinal game between the two when Russel Wheatley kicked a 62 yard field goal. Searching for more on that game, I found the site mojoland.net and read about them there. I know it isn't much, but it was what I had to learn from. So no, I won't ever know the swagger Permian had in the 80s, or the fear they caused in opponents.

[Favpack]

Lots of accusations in the hey-day that Permian did a lot of West Texas scouting and always managed to find a good oil job for the kid's dad they wanted to see in Odessa. I never followed it too closely. But, some say it happened alot.

[Mustangman21]

thats why I heard permian got alot of good talent because of the oil boom in the permian basin.

[AHSeagles]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

For decades of kicking our teeth in.:D No, I don't hate Permian. Dislike, yes, but no more so than I dislike Midland Lee, Odessa High, Midland, or Cooper. For me, it's the rivalry of wanting to beat you and for years of yall being the standard of high school football. I'm young and before the last two year the last time I remembered Permian making the playoffs Roy Williams was still wearing the Mojo uniform. However, I know the stories of yalls dominance and have a great respect for how much tradition and pride has been taken in yalls program.

[PermianFan]

Lots of accusations in the hey-day that Permian did a lot of West Texas scouting and always managed to find a good oil job for the kid's dad they wanted to see in Odessa. I never followed it too closely. But, some say it happened alot.

Of course, no one's ever actually NAMED any of these outstanding blue chip players Permian supposedly got when their dads were handed those plum jobs in the oil patch. It's also funny that none of these exceptional move-in athletes ever went on to become big college stars. It would almost be enough to make an unbiased person wonder if maybe a lot of the accusations came from envious opponents who couldn't believe they were getting their butts kicked by 5'8" QB's (Jerry Hix) and 140 pound DB's (Joe Bob Bizzell), so they invented these supermen to save face.

[wesaxman34]

I saw your comment regarding my post on the Permian/Katy thread....

I'm 20 but I understand more about Permian than what the book has to offer, just to clear that up:p

But you're right, the book/movie didn't make Permian the way it is today, but it sure did give national exposure to the average sports fan about their tradition and the importance of high school football in Texas.

For a lot of us native Texans, we already knew of Permian and their dominance and fan base in Odessa. For some fans, Permian is just the school they love to hate, and other fans may see the football program as role model for greatness and tradition.

Whatever "it is" about Permian, they sure do know how to embarass my Trojans on national television:eek:...

[AHSeagles]

I saw your comment regarding my post on the Permian/Katy thread....

I'm 20 but I understand more about Permian than what the book has to offer, just to clear that up:p

But you're right, the book/movie didn't make Permian the way it is today, but it sure did give national exposure to the average sports fan about their tradition and the importance of high school football in Texas.

For a lot of us native Texans, we already knew of Permian and their dominance and fan base in Odessa. For some fans, Permian is just the school they love to hate, and other fans may see the football program as role model for greatness and tradition.

Whatever "it is" about Permian, they sure do know how to embarass my Trojans on national television:eek:...

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Yall got the best of them when it mattered most.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

It's called jealousy! When you're winning, people try to come up with every lame, non-respectful excuse in the book of why you ARE successful! And then, when you go thru your down times, people start saying stuff like "F--- PERMIAN...THEY WASN'T THAT GOOD ANYWAY!" It's usually people who's gotten their a$$es kicked by Permian, and when they finally beat them that one time, they act like they've won the Super Bowl, and they run around beating their chests like they're gorillas.

[mojotrain]

Of course, no one's ever actually NAMED any of these outstanding blue chip players Permian supposedly got when their dads were handed those plum jobs in the oil patch. It's also funny that none of these exceptional move-in athletes ever went on to become big college stars. It would almost be enough to make an unbiased person wonder if maybe a lot of the accusations came from envious opponents who couldn't believe they were getting their butts kicked by 5'8" QB's (Jerry Hix) and 140 pound DB's (Joe Bob Bizzell), so they invented these supermen to save face.

Don't you remember Permian fan, we did recruit, didn't we?. We brought their familys in when the kids were third graders. So they could play Pop Warner. I coached a bunch of them in the 12 years I helped with the boys club program. We also hired excellent scouts who could look at these third graders and forsee the good football players. We ran their dads off as soon as the championship game was over. Poor Odessa High did a lousy job of recruiting. In those early years most of the recruiting money (oil ) was on the Odessa side of town. Truth is, a lot of the kids that helped Permian. had dads that graduated from Odessa High. 99.9 perecent of them went through the Permian feeder schools Nimitz, Hood and Bonham.

[mojoguy]

It's funny to me to hear people that make claims about bringing talent in like that. If we have brought it in traditionally, it sure hasn't made it through offseason very often. We have a history of talented players, but they are not usually blue-chip talented in the traditional sense. I don't know if we ever won a state title with an O-Line or D-Line that averaged over 200 pounds per man. :p

[cyfallsbooster2]

It's funny to me to hear people that make claims about bringing talent in like that. If we have brought it in traditionally, it sure hasn't made it through offseason very often. We have a history of talented players, but they are not usually blue-chip talented in the traditional sense. I don't know if we ever won a state title with an O-Line or D-Line that averaged over 200 pounds per man. :p

THAT is one of the aspects that makes West Texas teams so scary. They ain't big but they will flat out kick your butt! It is an attitude that comes from living in an area where everlything around either stings, cuts or sticks you. It is tough out there. It generates tough minds and bodies. Ask me. I grew up there and transfered to Houston. Most down here did not understand how a 145 lb LB/DE could make it in the highest classification. Its all about attitude.

[cougmantx]

As a kid in Big Spring, Texas we all hated Perminan...that started early since I am an old man now. Now I have nothing but respect for them and wish the program all the success that I wish for any quality team that has the tradition, fans and plays the smash mouth football that Permian plays.

As far a Katy being the new Permian. Don't think so! Katy, SLC, Trinity, North Shore, Judson, Smithson Valley...etc, are there by their own creed and traditions. One is not better then another, but they will play their hearts out with a depth of charactor others strive for.

To the person from Florida that thinks most teams fear SLC...I gotta respectfully tell you, you don't understand Texas football. I know for a fact that Katy was watering at the mouth to get SLC on the field in 2007. Of course, until Abeliene beat them we were the only one that had for years.

When you are powerhouse in this state, especially amoung the top tier, you wear a bullseye and these teams don't back down.

Of course being a Katy homer, if they were to win state the next 10 years it wouldn't break my heart at all. Judging from the quailty of teams we have in Texas I have to give credit where credit is due and SLC deserves my respect. This year ought to be a very interesting one. Lot's of noise being made out there by some pretty rightous teams.

[PCW Cats]

I think it is a good thing to have Permian back again and I don't think anyone really hates them. From a HS football fans standpoint it is good to have the traditional powers involved in big playoff games. Permian, Katy, Plano and SLC all have great fan followings and make it exciting to watch the game if your team is out.

[wesaxman34]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Yall got the best of them when it mattered most.

;)

[RedRage00]

I don't remember people hating on Permian. Maybe I missed that thread.

[dragonpants]

"Friday Night Lights," the book, the movie or the series did not invent the Permian Panthers as suggested by some of the younger posters. Simply put all those were created after Permian had won it's last State trophy in 1991. If you are 17 or under you know nothing about Permian except what you have read in the book or seen in the movie or just heard someplace like on this site. I could expand that even and say that if you are under the age of 25. You know nothing of them. FNL is quoted as a document of truth. Why?

It's chicken or it's feathers, love or hate. I wonder if it's just the fact of success? If Katy becomes the next Permian will the same happen to them. Do you think if SLC continues it's onslaught of HS football for another decade will they be the subject of hate. I've seen hints of that already.

I don't want to see this one locked down so help keep it clean.

Why do so many dislike Permian?

I think you have to look at it as jealousy rather than hatred or dislike. Everyone loves to hate the team that is on top for a long time, when they are on a run. It happens in other sports on different levels. How many people "hate" the Yankees or hate Notre Dame, even though they are not as competitive as they once were, they still have their own TV contract and every Saturday they are on a national television. If Trinity continues their run for a few more years, people once enamored with the Haka will start to "hate" it.

[78 Spartan]

The first time I ever saw Permian was on game film when they lost to Plano in the 1978 state semifinals. They looked small, quick and swarming, especially impressive on defense. There was no doubt they were tremendously well-coached and motivated kids with no quit in them. But no individual players stood out. Plano was more talented but Permian's heart seemed to keep them in it until the end.

The first time I saw Permian live was in the state championship game a few years later against PA Jefferson, at Texas Stadium. There was some talk before the game that PA Jeff might be one of the best ever. Having seen PA Jeff play a few times that year (I think it was '80 or '81), including knocking Stratford out of the playoffs, I was thinking that Jeff's talent would be way too much for Permian's scrappy kids.

Boy was I ever wrong. After a poor first half showing, Permian came out in the second half and administered a GOFAW to PA Jeff.

I think that game epitomized West Texas football, and it showed that a good, well-coached TEAM playing hard and playing together can beat most any collection of talent in a high school football game. Based on that, there is a tremendous amount of admiration statewide for Permian. They represent the hope that you don't need million dollar athletic complexes or a roster stocked with D1 prospects to win at the highest level in Texas.

Now, if you're from Midland, or Abilene, or San Angelo, or Lubbock, and have spent most of the last 30 years getting beat by Permian, you might feel differently.

[TrojanHorse03]

I think you have to look at it as jealousy rather than hatred or dislike. Everyone loves to hate the team that is on top for a long time, when they are on a run. It happens in other sports on different levels. How many people "hate" the Yankees or hate Notre Dame, even though they are not as competitive as they once were, they still have their own TV contract and every Saturday they are on a national television. If Trinity continues their run for a few more years, people once enamored with the Haka will start to "hate" it.

They already do since o about 2005, but the thing about Trinity is we actually love having haters, it means you're pretty good to say the least.

[trojanbacker]

I never knew people hated Permian. To me, they're just another one of those teams -- along with Southlake, Katy, Plano, Judson, etc. -- that people love to beat because it means you've bested a first class program. People measure themselves against programs like those and are justifiably proud on those rare times they can beat them. But hatred? I don't think so.

[mojoguy]

The first time I saw Permian live was in the state championship game a few years later against PA Jefferson, at Texas Stadium. There was some talk before the game that PA Jeff might be one of the best ever. Having seen PA Jeff play a few times that year (I think it was '80 or '81), including knocking Stratford out of the playoffs, I was thinking that Jeff's talent would be way too much for Permian's scrappy kids.

Boy was I ever wrong. After a poor first half showing, Permian came out in the second half and administered a GOFAW to PA Jeff.

I think that game epitomized West Texas football, and it showed that a good, well-coached TEAM playing hard and playing together can beat most any collection of talent in a high school football game. Based on that, there is a tremendous amount of admiration statewide for Permian. They represent the hope that you don't need million dollar athletic complexes or a roster stocked with D1 prospects to win at the highest level in Texas.


That game was before my time, but I've watched it on film several times, and it is still one of my favorites to watch. It's funny because my parents used to be friends with the corner that had to cover Brent Duhon that game, and I think that name still gives him the heebie jeebies. When it came to overachieving teams, I think that 1980 squad might take the cake. From what I understand, they were picked to finish something like third in the district going into that season and they responded with 9 shutouts. The championship game and scene itself are pretty well represented in the book, The Secret of Mojo, by Regina Walker McCally.

[mojoguy]

I never knew people hated Permian. To me, they're just another one of those teams -- along with Southlake, Katy, Plano, Judson, etc. -- that people love to beat because it means you've bested a first class program. People measure themselves against programs like those and are justifiably proud on those rare times they can beat them. But hatred? I don't think so.

To an extent you are right. The quality programs all have a level of respect for each other that is beyond like or hatred. Sure there can be gamesmanship between the crowds, but it's all in fun for the most part. Occasionally there are those that take it a bit far though. That definitely comes from both sides though. Every fan base has the people that stir the pot, and we do too. Those are the ones that cause the problems, but it's a good thing. It's when people stop hating that you should worry.

[mojoguy]

They already do since o about 2005, but the thing about Trinity is we actually love having haters, it means you're pretty good to say the least.

I love the HAKA, and I still say that for one Saturday in December 2007, the Trojans could have lined up with Baylor and hammered them. We have fun poking fun at each others' traditions, but when it came down to it, yall were a hell of a football team, and I still feel like we were too. That day though, there was just no way. :notworthy

[trojanbacker]

We may have had the best team that day in Abilene, but you guys had the most smokers on the parking lot.....by a long shot. Loved visiting with your fans that day. What a great group.

[TrojanHorse03]

I never knew people hated Permian. To me, they're just another one of those teams -- along with Southlake, Katy, Plano, Judson, etc. -- that people love to beat because it means you've bested a first class program.

Agree, I don't think Trinity or its fans hate Permian, though the fanbases don't not always see eye to eye, I think Trinity has nothing but respect for Permian.

[Maroondog]

To an extent you are right. The quality programs all have a level of respect for each other that is beyond like or hatred. Sure there can be gamesmanship between the crowds, but it's all in fun for the most part. Occasionally there are those that take it a bit far though. That definitely comes from both sides though. Every fan base has the people that stir the pot, and we do too. Those are the ones that cause the problems, but it's a good thing. It's when people stop hating that you should worry.

Agreed. Quality teams that get to play each other, especially in the playoffs, have a certain distinction about them that is hard to fully explain. Even when losing you know you have competed against the best the state can offer.

It is impossible for me to hate Permian, Trinity, Katy, SLC, etc. because I have too much RESPECT for the programs they have developed and maintained over the years.

[elkfbfan]

I think it is jealousy for the most part rather than hatred. Most schools aren't willing to work as hard as Permian did. The Panthers exemplified the West Texas HS football tradition. As it has been pointed out, they usually weren't loaded with blue chip, D1 talent. But they got the absolute most out of what they had, and they played with heart and as a team. Alot of people are jealous of that because they know deep down that their team was not willing to work as hard as Permian did. FNL may have stoked some of that hatred, as it exposed Permian's so called " dark side". A lot of people had no other personal knowledge of Permian other than that book/movie, so they had nothing else to balance it out with.

[TrojanHorse03]

Agreed. Quality teams that get to play each other, especially in the playoffs, have a certain distinction about them that is hard to fully explain. Even when losing you know you have competed against the best the state can offer.

It is impossible for me to hate Permian, Trinity, Katy, SLC, etc. because I have too much RESPECT for the programs they have developed and maintained over the years.

Well put, with Plano and Judson in that category as well. The elite programs are what help motivate everybody's competitive spirit.

[toonman]

A true fan of Texas High School Football will not hate Permian. I am sure most would agree that Permian encapsulates what Texas High School Football is all about. I personally have been delighted to see the resurgence of the Permian Program, with runs deep into the play-offs the last two seasons, losing to the eventual State Champions. There is a unique history to Permian that means the Permian Program is etched into Texas High Football forever. Permian is one of the few results that most fans will seek out on a Friday night or Saturday morning.

[PCW Cats]

The first time I ever saw Permian was on game film when they lost to Plano in the 1978 state semifinals. They looked small, quick and swarming, especially impressive on defense. There was no doubt they were tremendously well-coached and motivated kids with no quit in them. But no individual players stood out. Plano was more talented but Permian's heart seemed to keep them in it until the end.

The first time I saw Permian live was in the state championship game a few years later against PA Jefferson, at Texas Stadium. There was some talk before the game that PA Jeff might be one of the best ever. Having seen PA Jeff play a few times that year (I think it was '80 or '81), including knocking Stratford out of the playoffs, I was thinking that Jeff's talent would be way too much for Permian's scrappy kids.

Boy was I ever wrong. After a poor first half showing, Permian came out in the second half and administered a GOFAW to PA Jeff.

I think that game epitomized West Texas football, and it showed that a good, well-coached TEAM playing hard and playing together can beat most any collection of talent in a high school football game. Based on that, there is a tremendous amount of admiration statewide for Permian. They represent the hope that you don't need million dollar athletic complexes or a roster stocked with D1 prospects to win at the highest level in Texas.

Now, if you're from Midland, or Abilene, or San Angelo, or Lubbock, and have spent most of the last 30 years getting beat by Permian, you might feel differently.

Do you happen to have a copy of that Plano/Permian game from 78? I remember listening to it on the radio and would love to be able to see it.

[AHSeagles]

The first time I ever saw Permian was on game film when they lost to Plano in the 1978 state semifinals. They looked small, quick and swarming, especially impressive on defense. There was no doubt they were tremendously well-coached and motivated kids with no quit in them. But no individual players stood out. Plano was more talented but Permian's heart seemed to keep them in it until the end.

The first time I saw Permian live was in the state championship game a few years later against PA Jefferson, at Texas Stadium. There was some talk before the game that PA Jeff might be one of the best ever. Having seen PA Jeff play a few times that year (I think it was '80 or '81), including knocking Stratford out of the playoffs, I was thinking that Jeff's talent would be way too much for Permian's scrappy kids.

Boy was I ever wrong. After a poor first half showing, Permian came out in the second half and administered a GOFAW to PA Jeff.

I think that game epitomized West Texas football, and it showed that a good, well-coached TEAM playing hard and playing together can beat most any collection of talent in a high school football game. Based on that, there is a tremendous amount of admiration statewide for Permian. They represent the hope that you don't need million dollar athletic complexes or a roster stocked with D1 prospects to win at the highest level in Texas.

Now, if you're from Midland, or Abilene, or San Angelo, or Lubbock, and have spent most of the last 30 years getting beat by Permian, you might feel differently.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there! But, you're right in that West Texas teams are never stacked with 8-10 D1 prospects in one year. On a good year for west Texas teams there will be maybe 5 D1 players. Out here it's all about the team, then the exceptional athletes will find a way to shine through without leaving their teammates out to dry.

[302w]

Do you happen to have a copy of that Plano/Permian game from 78? I remember listening to it on the radio and would love to be able to see it.


First post here, I have some old tapes from the 1972-1973 team that my old man played for. I need to drag those out and find them. Being my dad played for the 72 and 73 team I hear a lot of stories about their tradition and such. For the state game against Baytown Sterling, the school district flew the team to Austin. I remember him telling me that Grady Wilkerson got in a fight at the resturante before they flew back and Darrel Royal (sp?) came over and told the cops to take the handcuffs off of him. From what I heard, Grady was a big recruit back in the day.

[Cloviskid]

Here at Clovis East we have nothing but Mad Love for our Brothers at Permian! They where there cheering on Clovis East and keep them boys fired up!

Go MOJO!

[mojotrain]

First post here, I have some old tapes from the 1972-1973 team that my old man played for. I need to drag those out and find them. Being my dad played for the 72 and 73 team I hear a lot of stories about their tradition and such. For the state game against Baytown Sterling, the school district flew the team to Austin. I remember him telling me that Grady Wilkerson got in a fight at the resturante before they flew back and Darrel Royal (sp?) came over and told the cops to take the handcuffs off of him. From what I heard, Grady was a big recruit back in the day.

Other than Joe Bob he was as testy as any at Permian. He was just bigger. Just think, you could have been a Mojo.:) Welcome aboard.

[78 Spartan]

Do you happen to have a copy of that Plano/Permian game from 78? I remember listening to it on the radio and would love to be able to see it.


Sorry, no. I just remember reviewing the films as we prepared to play Plano for the title the next week.

We knew we were in the land of the giants, having to beat '76 state champ SA Churchill in the semis for the right to play the winner of '77 champ Plano vs. '72 champ Permian. That was pretty intimidating company.

[302w]

Other than Joe Bob he was as testy as any at Permian. He was just bigger. Just think, you could have been a Mojo.:) Welcome aboard.


Yeah Joe Bob was an amazing athlete being that he only weighed about 135 lbs. I was at the Permian/ET playoff game and got to meet Ray Nunez which was pretty cool. Do you know a man by the name Bucky Taylor?

[mojotrain]

Yeah Joe Bob was an amazing athlete being that he only weighed about 135 lbs. I was at the Permian/ET playoff game and got to meet Ray Nunez which was pretty cool. Do you know a man by the name Bucky Taylor?

Yes, I only know of him as a student and player. Was his dad named Jug?

[302w]

Sure was, he owned a little ice cream shop there in odessa. Buckey is a good friend of ours. Jug (RIP) passed away in May. My grandparents own Vivian's Floral if every go in there.

[AE 8008]

no hate for permian here

competition? yes... but also respected

[Firebird]

Permian IS Texas high school football. My parents were HS sweethearts at Permian and my grandma lived out there forever on Century Street. We'd go visit her when I was a kid, always drive over to Ratliff and to the school. Just seeing that sign with the list of state championships gave me chills even back then........

[Empire strikes back]

Permian IS Texas high school football. My parents were HS sweethearts at Permian and my grandma lived out there forever on Century Street. We'd go visit her when I was a kid, always drive over to Ratliff and to the school. Just seeing that sign with the list of state championships gave me chills even back then........


No Kidding!!!!!, my dad (when he was a kid) and my grandparents lived on Century street for a several of years. Maybe your grandma might know my grandparents.


__________________________________________

Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest

[mojotrain]

Sure was, he owned a little ice cream shop there in odessa. Buckey is a good friend of ours. Jug (RIP) passed away in May. My grandparents own Vivian's Floral if every go in there.

Jug played football on the 46 state championship OHS team. Hayden Fry being on the notables on the team. He was a long time member of Permians booser club and was ver active, like he never missed. The ice cream shop was Baskin Riobbins and later something? scoop. Bucky, I think attended Bonham Jr. high. I don't think they lost a game while he was there. If they did you can bet I'll be called out on it.

Ah ha, Vivians helped marry and or bury every member of me and my first wifes familys over perhaps a thirty year period. It is, or was on the west side of town. Thats in OHS terror-tory.:)

[mojotrain]

Permian IS Texas high school football. My parents were HS sweethearts at Permian and my grandma lived out there forever on Century Street. We'd go visit her when I was a kid, always drive over to Ratliff and to the school. Just seeing that sign with the list of state championships gave me chills even back then........

Good grief! common ground. I lived on the corner of Parker and Maple near Century. I'm bettin we are kin. :)

[Redhoss]

Good grief! common ground. I lived on the corner of Parker and Maple near Century. I'm bettin we are kin. :)

I used to work for a guy who lives on Century. :D

[Empire strikes back]

I used to work for a guy who lives on Century.


What was his name?




________________________________________

Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest

[mojotrain]

Man, Odessa is just like Jamestown Va. Everyone begat and behold! every one is from Odessa.

[Firebird]

Good grief! common ground. I lived on the corner of Parker and Maple near Century. I'm bettin we are kin. :)

Grandma was a school teacher at an elementary school for many years and a member of Sixth and Jackson CofC.....don't feel too comfortable saying much more on the webs.....

[PermianFan]

Good grief! common ground. I lived on the corner of Parker and Maple near Century. I'm bettin we are kin. :)

No kidding! One of my closest friends, Thomas Autry, lived on the corner of Parker and Maple back in the 60's. Different corner, probably.

[Empire strikes back]

Firebird and Redhoss, yall may know my grandfather, does Jim or James Alvis ring a bell? My grandparents lived on Century for several years.




________________________________________

Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest

[mojotrain]

No kidding! One of my closest friends, Thomas Autry, lived on the corner of Parker and Maple back in the 60's. Different corner, probably.Northwest corner, I bought it in 67 lived there until 89. It's a wreck now and has been on the condemmed list a number of times. I bought it from a Conlin.

[mojotrain]

Grandma was a school teacher at an elementary school for many years and a member of Sixth and Jackson CofC.....don't feel too comfortable saying much more on the webs.....

Well if we were to keep going we are going to know someone or know someone that knows someone. My family has been tied up ith ECISD for about 40 years as has been my wife. I worked with men who attended Sixth and Jackson Church for years. This is one small world isn't it?

[PermianFan]

Northwest corner, I bought it in 67 lived there until 89. It's a wreck now and has been on the condemmed list a number of times. I bought it from a Conlin.

Southeast corner. Thomas graduated from Permian in 1961 and lived there as late as 1964 while going to OC. His family continued to live there for several years. Not much chance you would have been neighborly with them, being across Maple from their home.

Small world.

[DiamondJ2]

When I first came to Texas to attend college on an athletic scholarhip, I was amazed at the size of the football stadiums. I hail from Indiana where basketball is king. My high school had 450 students, but a gym that seated 5,000, but a football stadium that seated maybe 2,000 total. Within my first month at college, I was informed and heard stories about Permian. Most true and, of course, some I'm sure were exaggerated. Over the last 3 decades, I've gained a tremendous amount of respect for Permian. What they have accomplished is outstanding. In 1995, the Rockets beat Permian for the state championship, and the reaction from our fans was complete jubilation to defeat the storied Permian Mojo. Judson ranks right there with the other dynasties of Permian, Plano, SLC, Celina, Brownwood, & Katy to name a few, but there's just something about the mystic of the mojo.

[TrojanHorse03]

Permian IS Texas high school football.

That may be how you feel and that's fine, but with all due respect Texas High School Football is much more than Permian, or any one program.

[mojotrain]

Southeast corner. Thomas graduated from Permian in 1961 and lived there as late as 1964 while going to OC. His family continued to live there for several years. Not much chance you would have been neighborly with them, being across Maple from their home.

Small world.
No, in 67 a Merlyn Kelly a chemist @ El Paso Nat lived there. They were Mormons and boy could Mrs Kelly cook. There kids would come over to our house and drink cokes.:)

[Firebird]

That may be how you feel and that's fine, but with all due respect Texas High School Football is much more than Permian, or any one program.

They're Texas high school football in the way that Notre Dame is college football. Permian is the gold standard, the default. The modern era of high school football, the fan support, the way coaches try to build their programs, etc...all that flows out of what they did out in oil patch and what they built out there. If you have to pick one place to symbolize the sport, it's Odessa Permian....If you could pick one venue to take an outsider to show them what high school football is about...it's Ratliff Stadium. That's what it means that Permian IS high school football in Texas.

[TulsaHale74]

They're Texas high school football in the way that Notre Dame is college football. Permian is the gold standard, the default. The modern era of high school football, the fan support, the way coaches try to build their programs, etc...all that flows out of what they did out in oil patch and what they built out there. If you have to pick one place to symbolize the sport, it's Odessa Permian....If you could pick one venue to take an outsider to show them what high school football is about...it's Ratliff Stadium. That's what it means that Permian IS high school football in Texas.
If we're looking for a sentimental icon to represent Texas football then let it be Permian. It's like the Texas Tourism agency putting a photograph of a cowboy on the cover of their materials, and implying that is the icon for Texas in 2008. Yet we all know the Texas population lives in urban areas and isn't riding a horse on the job. The bulk of the high school football teams, and certainly 5A teams, are from urban areas, and might not recognize an oil patch if they drove through one. For every Permian with a full Ratliff stadium there is a 5A Fort Worth Paschal that plays before a couple hundred fans. So does Paschal or Permian best represent the typical Texas high school football environment? The answer is neither do. If people like making a cowboy the face of Texas then they probably agree with making Permian the face of Texas football. Marketing makes the economy go but marketing and truth don't go together well.

Permian is a great story, and its success in football competition is much admired. Permian is what the majority of programs aspire to be. Permian may be the "best and brightest" in a state with all "above average" teams. But, a night at Ratliff no more describes typical Texas football than a night with Jessica Simpson describes a typical Texas date.

[Firebird]

If we're looking for a sentimental icon to represent Texas football then let it be Permian. It's like the Texas Tourism agency putting a photograph of a cowboy on the cover of their materials, and implying that is the icon for Texas in 2008. Yet we all know the Texas population lives in urban areas and isn't riding a horse on the job. The bulk of the high school football teams, and certainly 5A teams, are from urban areas, and might not recognize an oil patch if they drove through one. For every Permian with a full Ratliff stadium there is a 5A Fort Worth Paschal that plays before a couple hundred fans. So does Paschal or Permian best represent the typical Texas high school football environment? The answer is neither do. If people like making a cowboy the face of Texas then they probably agree with making Permian the face of Texas football. Marketing makes the economy go but marketing and truth don't go together well.

Permian is a great story, and its success in football competition is much admired. Permian is what the majority of programs aspire to be. Permian may be the "best and brightest" in a state with all "above average" teams. But, a night at Ratliff no more describes typical Texas football than a night with Jessica Simpson describes a typical Texas date.

What you're saying is kinda what I'm trying to get at....but I would say that there is no typical Texas high school football environment. The sport is played in every environment and in every situation imaginable. What would typical be....a 4A or 5A school in a non-descript suburb of Houston/Dallas that had never won a state championship or even made much noise? There's lots of those out there. Would you put a push-pin on a map and go to whatever little town is nearest? In the valley, HS football is Mr. Ni Fu Ni Fa, radio scores in spanish, and fajitas. In the big country it is hamburgers at the school cafeteria and the Abilene Reporter-News. It's propane tanks filled with ball bearings in Stephenville. There's far too much going on to say any place is typical.

IMHO, if you are picking an icon of Texas HS football, it's either Permian or a good six-man or 1A team, maybe Richland Springs or Windthorst. The atmosphere and "feel" around those types of programs are what people across the nation think of when they think Texas high school football. In truth, it's probably the image most of us on the board like to keep in mind.

[TrojanHorse03]

They're Texas high school football in the way that Notre Dame is college football. Permian is the gold standard, the default. The modern era of high school football, the fan support, the way coaches try to build their programs, etc...all that flows out of what they did out in oil patch and what they built out there. If you have to pick one place to symbolize the sport, it's Odessa Permian....If you could pick one venue to take an outsider to show them what high school football is about...it's Ratliff Stadium. That's what it means that Permian IS high school football in Texas.

If that's how you feel that's fine, but not everybody sees it that way.

[Firebird]

If that's how you feel that's fine, but not everybody sees it that way.

OK, give us a better iconic program to represent Texas high school football....I've given my reasons why Permian is it, sorta like Notre Dame for college football.

[farmerfan]

OK, give us a better iconic program to represent Texas high school football....I've given my reasons why Permian is it, sorta like Notre Dame for college football.

You're spot on.
There is not a better iconic program to represent this state than that of Permian.

[nevaplayedk9]

That may be how you feel and that's fine, but with all due respect Texas High School Football is much more than Permian, or any one program.

permian is part of the foundation of the rich tradition of texas hs football and the handful of others in the past,present and future will continue to build on that foundation and that's why texas hs football is king

[TrojanHorse03]

OK, give us a better iconic program to represent Texas high school football....I've given my reasons why Permian is it, sorta like Notre Dame for college football.

You just can't seem to let this go for some reason. Just one example, do you think Plano fans think Mojo is more iconic? As well there's alot of people who don't think of Notre Dame's program first when they think of college football.

[TrojanHorse03]

permian is part of the foundation of the rich tradition of texas hs football and the handful of others in the past,present and future will continue to build on that foundation and that's why texas hs football is king

I think you understand what I'm getting at.

[Firebird]

You just can't seem to let this go for some reason. Just one example, do you think Plano fans think Mojo is more iconic? As well there's alot of people who don't think of Notre Dame's program first when they think of college football.

Because it just is the iconic program for high school football....when you survey the vast landscape of great teams and dynasties, Permian sticks out. Part of it is becasue of the book and the movie, but most if it is simply due to the legend and lore and mystique of Permian high school and the great football teams from out there. A bunch of scrappy West Texans that took on the whole state and whupped them with good coaching, discipline, and will.

It's not a knock on other teams, just a statement of fact. When most people think of high school football in the great state of Texas, Permian or something similar to Permian is what springs to mind....20,000 people packing a stadium in the middle of the desert. Transplanting that scene to a suburb of Dallas or Houston just isn't the same.

If I were to pick a school to represent the modern face of the sport in its 5A form, then SLC or Katy would probably be it. But to pick an iconic program out to represent the whole kit n kaboodle, I'll go with Permian or a small-town power like Richland Springs or Windthorst.

[KT2000]

Permian, Plano and Judson are the definitive Texas High School football programs for me. When I started at Katy, these programs were the gold standards.

[nevaplayedk9]

I think you understand what I'm getting at.

yeah i do, their a BIG part of the puzzle, but not the only part......right?

[nevaplayedk9]

Permian, Plano and Judson are the definitive Texas High School football programs for me. When I started at Katy, these programs were the gold standards.

well put KT

[TrojanHorse03]

I'm not even going to ask you your perspective on this Firebird, I get it. But there are plenty of people who Southlake's name comes to their mouth and they think of them first when they think of high school football and model themselves after them or Judson, or do Plano fans think Mojo is more representative of high school football, or nationally of De La Salle, etc. Now in my opinion if high school football especially Texas High School Football is as great as we all think and claim it is it could never be defined or encapsulated by any one program, again that's my opinion. But we're all naturally are gonna have different perspectives of what represents high school football for us, and that's to be expected and ok.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Permian, Plano and Judson are the definitive Texas High School football programs for me. When I started at Katy, these programs were the gold standards.

Agreed, However their are certain factions on this site who would disagree. We know WhOOOO!!:D

[KT2000]

Agreed, However their are certain factions on this site who would disagree. We know WhOOOO!!:D

As Trojan mentioned, it is in the eye of the beholder. My personal outlook on Texas high school football was directly influenced by the programs I mentioned above.

[NHB06]

Agreed, However their are certain factions on this site who would disagree. We know WhOOOO!!:D

WHOOOO? WHOOOO?

[KT2000]

WHOOOO? WHOOOO?

Don't encourage it. We don't need the DFW border disputes in every thread. Thanks. :)

[TulsaHale74]

Because it just is the iconic program for high school football....when you survey the vast landscape of great teams and dynasties, Permian sticks out. Part of it is becasue of the book and the movie, but most if it is simply due to the legend and lore and mystique of Permian high school and the great football teams from out there. A bunch of scrappy West Texans that took on the whole state and whupped them with good coaching, discipline, and will.

It's not a knock on other teams, just a statement of fact. When most people think of high school football in the great state of Texas, Permian or something similar to Permian is what springs to mind....20,000 people packing a stadium in the middle of the desert. Transplanting that scene to a suburb of Dallas or Houston just isn't the same.

If I were to pick a school to represent the modern face of the sport in its 5A form, then SLC or Katy would probably be it. But to pick an iconic program out to represent the whole kit n kaboodle, I'll go with Permian or a small-town power like Richland Springs or Windthorst.
I agree with you even though, like the cowboy, it's an inaccurate representation. It reinforces the images that many people already have in their head.

For me, when I think of Texas high school football in general, I think of Texas Stadium. That's because I've got to watch playoff games there. Growing up, my image of Oklahoma high school football was Skelly Stadium at the University of Tulsa because that was our home field in many seasons.

But in terms of a program and a location/environment, and only being allowed to pick one icon, Permian serves well.

[farmerfan]

Agreed, However their are certain factions on this site who would disagree. We know WhOOOO!!:D

Just like there are other factions on this site who would all agree on the mass suck that is Plano. :cool:

[Maroondog]

Certain factions indeed.

[farmerfan]

Certain factions indeed.

those "Whoo" speak it are alright in my book too :notworthy;)

[Redhoss]

[QUOTE=Empire strikes back;831956]What was his name?


Turner

[Redhoss]

[QUOTE=Empire strikes back;832026]Firebird and Redhoss, yall may know my grandfather, does Jim or James Alvis ring a bell? My grandparents lived on Century for several years.


I vaguely seem to recall that name.

[Redhoss]

Well if we were to keep going we are going to know someone or know someone that knows someone. My family has been tied up ith ECISD for about 40 years as has been my wife. I worked with men who attended Sixth and Jackson Church for years. This is one small world isn't it?

My brother was baptized in a church in that area. :eek:

[Firebird]

My brother was baptized in a church in that area. :eek:

My mom was baptized AT that church...Sixth and Jackson CofC.

[Redhoss]

My mom was baptized AT that church...Sixth and Jackson CofC.

I thought that was the one and yes that's it. He visited there with a neighborhood friend. It is a small world. :D

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Just like there are other factions on this site who would all agree on the mass suck that is Plano. :cool:


FF why isn't Lewisville playing Plano anymore in pre-district? I think it would be a much better match for both teams staying and playing at the beautiful rennovated Clark Field than playing long road games like Plano going to Temple.

Then you can come over to Plano in your Farmer Overall's and your harvester sickle and yell sucky comments toward all us plano fans.

Heck I would even let you stay up in my Clark Field condo as my guest as long as you can stay polite being surrounded by Wildcat fans. :notworthy

[farmerfan]

FF why isn't Lewisville playing Plano anymore in pre-district? I think it would be a much better match for both teams staying and playing at the beautiful rennovated Clark Field than playing long road games like Plano going to Temple.

Then you can come over to Plano in your Farmer Overall's and your harvester sickle and yell sucky comments toward all us plano fans.

Heck I would even let you stay up in my Clark Field condo as my guest as long as you can stay polite being surrounded by Wildcat fans. :notworthy

Dont make it sound like Lewisville is scared of playing Plano anymore. The last two times they met in non-district Lewisville came out victorious in fact Lewisville took 3 of the last 4 and has taken 4 of the last 6 from Plano. Ask your coaches why they decided to no longer continue the series after 99?

As for sitting with you, I'd end up drinking all your beer and throwing you out your condo window by the time the night was over. Would be quite embarassing I'm sure for you but I'd laugh all the way back to Lewisville riding on my wagon.