Dave Campbell Magazine Clarifies BMT WEST BROOK pre-season ranking

[Beaumont_Legend]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has us ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

[dada]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has jus ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

and my kids are prettier than yours. I guess if another poll has WB at #10...they will be even MORE accurate.

[Beaumont_Legend]

Hey.you said it. Not me........

[dada]

Hey.you said it. Not me........

What I'm saying is..the "FAN" will side with whoever has a greater OPINION of their team....this has been noted several times before...Dave Campbell is trying to sell magazines so he has to tap the Golden Triangle.....I think this site is 100% less biased....but pre-season polls really don't mean anything anyway.

[Beaumont_Legend]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

[dada]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

I think the guys at this site make it to more schools, games, practices, scrimmages than anyone sitting behind a desk at DCTF. It USED to be a centerpiece until it became a BUSINESS which is why he has to rank a team in every region...including the annual Valley or El Paso team...to give people there a reason to buy it.... In the greater houston area...I don't think anyone does more research than this site. Besides Humble, who would you put westbrook ahead of in region 3 and why?


Admins...when do I receive my check?

[Fleeman93]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....


AT the time of this post you have 13 posts. Stick around a bit and you will slowly begin to understand what the KT boys are all about.

[saMavsFan]

Last year Madison was ranked 22 in 5a's preseason poll. They wound up going all the way to play Katy in the semis, despite the loss of Devin Thomas and others.

This year Madison is not ranked at all, by either 5a or Dave Campbells. My point is, that this stuff is all just for fun. Helps us die hard HS football fans get through from one season to the next. Beaumont is always in the playoffs. Madison is on 9 out of 10 years. The football will work itself out as the season progresses. But don't take the "snub" personally. Just get a good laugh at the rankings when your team does well this season.

[KLH75287]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

Spoken like a true Scout :D

I TOO held DCTF in high regard at one time, but have seen the light.

Although not perfect (who is), this sites research and predictions will prove year in and year out to be much more accurate than Dave's best guess.

Welcome to the board. You will enjoy your stay here.

[drgnbkr]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

The work done for this site make Dave's pronouncements look ridiculous...IMO:p Welcome to the board!

[KT2000]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has us ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

First, our rankings are not perfect and we do not expect them to be. I think the only realistic target you can have with state rankings of any sort (pre-season or in-season) is to get the top 10 right. We know the 11-25 part of the rankings will change constantly, but I consider the rankings successful if the top 10 remains largely intact from week to week. That tells me we've correctly identified who the best teams are, and we adjust the rankings as necessary.

I wouldn't call a top 25 state rankings and a top 10 region rankings a snub, especially given West Brook started this decade 0-10, 2-7, 4-6, 2-8 and 2-8. What we are saying with this ranking is that we expect West Brook's trend of winning to continue. Whatever Craig Stump's done to resurrect the program, it's clearly working.

Humble is starting in front of West Brook in our pre-season poll because they return more experience than the Bruins overall.

[jc84chill]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

Welcome to the board Beaumont! :D

Since we didn't do any research and put West Brook at #25, would you mind telling us why you think they should be #12 instead? Or is that just because Dave says so?

[Favpack]

I respect your opinion. However, Dave Campbells is a centerpiece of TX football history. This website is ok, however I think they need to do more research....

Agree 100% - bunch of lousy slackers.

:eek:

[Favpack]

The work done for this site make Dave's pronouncements look ridiculous...IMO:p Welcome to the board!

Obviously I agree with this. I think DC is a pretty good pub, but it doesn't hold a candle here.

Put it this way - let's say the research between the two were equal.

5Atxftbl has the insight of hundreds of additional "experts" :D, thus, how could they be inferior to DC?

What "research" could DC do that is superior? In all frankness, alot of coaches know less than we do here -they're too busy teaching.

[Mustangman21]

last year dctf ranked grapevine 7th in the state, that just shows you how credible his rankings are.

[Beaumont_Legend]

I am a slave for Dave...lol

BTW......im not a newbie to the board. I forgot my old username with a deleted email account..LOL Thanks for the warm welcome however.....

[Fleeman93]

Westbrook will have plenty of chances to prove just how good they are on the field this year.

[Beaumont_Legend]

SO I Guess Randy Rogers doesn;t know what he's talking about either........lol

[Beaumont_Legend]

Westbrook will have plenty of chances to prove just how good they are on the field this year.

Your'e right and im looking forward to Sept. 27th when Katy makes the trip down i-10 east to Durley memorial stadium......

[Redhoss]

Your'e right and im looking forward to Sept. 27th when Katy makes the trip down i-10 east to Durley memorial stadium......

Should be fun. How big is that stadium?

[Fleeman93]

Should be fun. How big is that stadium?

Not big enough (no clue).

[Beaumont_Legend]

Its old school...........roughly about 10000

They should of scheduled it @ Lamar University Cardinal Stadium(17000) However due to the resurrection of the football program, the stadium is under renovation

[TrojanHorse03]

On a lighter note it looks like BWB running back Christine Michael is representing quite well at a football camp(non-pads for what that's worth of course) involving some of the nations best running backs http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=828720 http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=828720 .

[78 Spartan]

My best advice is to keep the mouth shut and let the play on the field do the talking. You guys have your shot at Katy, on your home field no less, so I'd be more focused on that than on polls.

Having said that, I think history bears out that 5ATF's predictions have been FAR better than Dave Campbell's over the past several years. Anybody can be wrong about this or that, but overall, I'd put my money on the KTs analysis. It's far sharper than anything I've seen.

BTW, when was the last time BWB made it to the Region III finals? Not a challenge, just a question because I don't know the answer.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

I'll just say this...I'd stay quiet! Hell, the Bruins are stepping on to the field with one of the coldest backs in the nation this year so, there are some that are taking them seriously. But, there maybe some who think that that's all they have. That's when you surprise them!

Beaumont_Legend, you may have just put your boys on the radar.

[Beaumont_Legend]

My best advice is to keep the mouth shut and let the play on the field do the talking. You guys have your shot at Katy, on your home field no less, so I'd be more focused on that than on polls.

Having said that, I think history bears out that 5ATF's predictions have been FAR better than Dave Campbell's over the past several years. Anybody can be wrong about this or that, but overall, I'd put my money on the KTs analysis. It's far sharper than anything I've seen.

BTW, when was the last time BWB made it to the Region III finals? Not a challenge, just a question because I don't know the answer.

They got close in 2006....barely losing to State Finalist Cy Falls......My senior year 1997-1998 we lost to state finalist Hastings in the regional final @ the Astrodome

[t00 playa]

They got close in 2006....barely losing to State Finalist Cy Falls......My senior year 1997-1998 we lost to state finalist Hastings in the regional final @ the Astrodome


That game vs falls was not that close.... i was there when it was played at GPISD..... I mean.. it was close score wise for a while....but in watching the game.... falls just looked to have too much .....and they did......but ive always like watching BWB..... especially during the days of one of my all time fav HS quarterbacks chip ambres.......the kid could run.... the kid had a cannon right arm......:eek:

[Beaumont_Legend]

That game vs falls was not that close.... i was there when it was played at GPISD..... I mean.. it was close score wise for a while....but in watching the game.... falls just looked to have too much .....and they did......but ive always like watching BWB..... especially during the days of one of my all time fav HS quarterbacks chip ambres.......the kid could run.... the kid had a cannon right arm......:eek:

You mean this Chip Ambres

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=407876

[jc84chill]

That game vs falls was not that close.... i was there when it was played at GPISD..... I mean.. it was close score wise for a while....but in watching the game.... falls just looked to have too much .....and they did......but ive always like watching BWB..... especially during the days of one of my all time fav HS quarterbacks chip ambres.......the kid could run.... the kid had a cannon right arm......:eek:

...that whole team was stacked with athletes...very fun to watch.

[jc84chill]

I'd also like to add with all of this DCTF vs 5ATXFB talk and speaking on behalf of the KT's ...we are all huge fans of DCTF and what they do. They've been doing this thing well for a long time and provided quite a bit of the inspiration to the rest of us.

It wouldn't be any fun if we all predicted the same things and/or if it panned out exactly like we predicted at the beginning of the season.

[Fleeman93]

I'd also like to add with all of this DCTF vs 5ATXFB talk and speaking on behalf of the KT's ...we are all huge fans of DCTF and what they do. They've been doing this thing well for a long time and provided quite a bit of the inspiration to the rest of us.

It wouldn't be any fun if we all predicted the same things and/or if it panned out exactly like we predicted at the beginning of the season.


Very true! We do need those guys to pick the other and wrong stuff to keep it fun.

:D

[ktCarl]

They got close in 2006....barely losing to State Finalist Cy Falls......My senior year 1997-1998 we lost to state finalist Hastings in the regional final @ the Astrodome

The '94 Bruins team made it to the R3 Final game and was ranked #1 in the State at the time. Westbrook has had some good teams in the past but recently went downhill and is now on the rise again. I wouldn't put much stock in rankings from a magazine or an internet forum. The kids and coaches will decide who's good or not on the field.

Oh...welcome to the board.

[Magellan]

Last year Madison was ranked 22 in 5a's preseason poll. They wound up going all the way to play Katy in the semis, despite the loss of Devin Thomas and others.

This year Madison is not ranked at all, by either 5a or Dave Campbells. My point is, that this stuff is all just for fun. Helps us die hard HS football fans get through from one season to the next. Beaumont is always in the playoffs. Madison is on 9 out of 10 years. The football will work itself out as the season progresses. But don't take the "snub" personally. Just get a good laugh at the rankings when your team does well this season.

Always in the playoffs? Between Jerry Henschel (sp?) and Craig Stump, I don't know if they had even 1 winning season. The opening of Ozen hit them hard, and they're just now getting back to where they were in the 80's and most of the 90's.
But yes, "Beaumont" is always in the playoffs, but that's from having 3 HSs. That's like saying "San Antonio" is always in the playoffs. As the moderators mentioned, there were some really down years.

Beaumont Legend, what's the overall scoreboard on the "Beaumont Bowl" trophy? As an alum of Central, I'm sure that the Dubba-Dubba-Dubba-Dubba-WB is working toward if they haven't already gotten back the overall lead in Beaumont Bowls... even though Central really hasn't been too stellar, lately.

Lastly, with WB's schedule, they're going to definitely be able to earn their way into the top-10 of any poll very quickly with Westfield (home), Ike (away), and Katy (home) in back-to-back-to-back weeks. If that isn't an opportunity to move up the rankings, I don't know what is.

[ftballin11]

They got close in 2006....barely losing to State Finalist Cy Falls......My senior year 1997-1998 we lost to state finalist Hastings in the regional final @ the Astrodome


In 06' if yall had beaten Falls you would have played Katy who yall havent faired well against in a long time.

[mojoguy]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has us ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

Is that #12 the highest you're expecting West Brook to be ranked all year? Pre-season rankings mean nothing. AND Dave Campbell's is a freakin joke more often than this site is. I believe they were the ones to rank Trinity at number 20 in the state last year. Just saying.

[GOBIGIKE#1]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has us ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

With the 2008 schedule ahead of you, Beaumont West Brook will have plenty of opportunity this year to show everyone how good they are!! If West Brook runs the table on Spring Westfield, Aldine Eisenhower, Katy, and North Shore, I am sure all of us will give them all the kudos you want and would so richly deserve.

IKE looks forward to you visiting us in Week 3 on September 19th. I know Beaumont West Brook has some great and exciting high school football players, but I would imagine this year IKE can match them athletically man for man. You have numerous D1 talented players and so does IKE. It should be a great matchup which will really test both teams and get them ready for the playoffs.

In regards to Humble being ranked ahead of West Brook, IKE knows how good Humble will be this year. Just like we have great respect for your team, we know Humble will give us all we can handle in district play. If IKE doesn't bring our "A" game against the Wildcats, we can chalk up one in the loss column. Being ranked just behind Humble is certainly not a snub!

Concerning DCTF and 5ATexasFootball, I have read Dave Campbell's magazine and been on this website from the beginning of both and 5ATexas Football is not second fiddle to anyone! In my opinion, these guys here are absolutely the best at what they do. Nobody's rankings are unquestionable or without some holes, but year in and year out, I believe the 5ATexasFootball rankings prove to be first rate!

GOBIGIKE#1
THE SWOOP IS DEFINITELY BACK!
WE ARE BIG IKE!

[cougmantx]

I would have to put my money on the 5a board over Dave...but having said that, I like where Dave ranked Katy better then 5a...

What Katy homer wouldn't! :D

[KLH75287]

I would have to put my money on the 5a board over Dave...but having said that, I like where Dave ranked Katy better then 5a...

What Katy homer wouldn't! :D

:D:D:D

You have to appreciate an honest fan!

Like mentioned earlier in this thread. DCTF knows that rankings are for homers, and homers buy magazines that reflect their interest.

It's always interesting to compare preseason polls with final results and see who brings the goods and who's simply selling books and creating spin.

[saMavsFan]

:D:D:D

You have to appreciate an honest fan!

Like mentioned earlier in this thread. DCTF knows that rankings are for homers, and homers buy magazines that reflect their interest.

It's always interesting to compare preseason polls with final results and see who brings the goods and who's simply selling books and creating spin.

I bought DC's magazine hoping for a spot for Madison in the top 25. All I was was out $10.00. Where's the love 5a!?! :D

[82 5A State Champs]

First, our rankings are not perfect and we do not expect them to be. I think the only realistic target you can have with state rankings of any sort (pre-season or in-season) is to get the top 10 right. We know the 11-25 part of the rankings will change constantly, but I consider the rankings successful if the top 10 remains largely intact from week to week. That tells me we've correctly identified who the best teams are, and we adjust the rankings as necessary.

I wouldn't call a top 25 state rankings and a top 10 region rankings a snub, especially given West Brook started this decade 0-10, 2-7, 4-6, 2-8 and 2-8. What we are saying with this ranking is that we expect West Brook's trend of winning to continue. Whatever Craig Stump's done to resurrect the program, it's clearly working.

Humble is starting in front of West Brook in our pre-season poll because they return more experience than the Bruins overall.
More experience? You mean they have more than 8 returning offensive and 6 defensive starters returning? WOW! They must be good. Better watch out for them in the playoffs.

[82 5A State Champs]

Should be fun. How big is that stadium?
Unfortunately, we currently play in a dinosaur of a stadium.......it only holds about 10,000 fans. HOWEVER, in about 2 years, when our new house is built, we should be able to accomodate 12-15,000 people! Field turf, natatorium, jumbo tron....the works! It will be a nice stadium when it's finished.

[KT2000]

More experience? You mean they have more than 8 returning offensive and 6 defensive starters returning? WOW! They must be good. Better watch out for them in the playoffs.

They had a very young team last year and finished 9-3.

[82 5A State Champs]

Always in the playoffs? Between Jerry Henschel (sp?) and Craig Stump, I don't know if they had even 1 winning season. The opening of Ozen hit them hard, and they're just now getting back to where they were in the 80's and most of the 90's.
But yes, "Beaumont" is always in the playoffs, but that's from having 3 HSs. That's like saying "San Antonio" is always in the playoffs. As the moderators mentioned, there were some really down years.

Beaumont Legend, what's the overall scoreboard on the "Beaumont Bowl" trophy? As an alum of Central, I'm sure that the Dubba-Dubba-Dubba-Dubba-WB is working toward if they haven't already gotten back the overall lead in Beaumont Bowls... even though Central really hasn't been too stellar, lately.

Lastly, with WB's schedule, they're going to definitely be able to earn their way into the top-10 of any poll very quickly with Westfield (home), Ike (away), and Katy (home) in back-to-back-to-back weeks. If that isn't an opportunity to move up the rankings, I don't know what is.You are absolutely right about Ozen coming in and taking most of WB's talent base. Ozen's first few years hit us hard and we are just now coming out of those dark days. As far as the Beaumont Bowl series, West Brook has won it 14 times against Central. Your Jags have won it 8 times. Lastly, we definitely have our work cut out for us in the preseason. With the schedule that we have, I would be satisfied if we ended up 3-2 after the first five games. I would be happy if we could win four of those to start district play 4-1. I'm not being unrealistic in thinking we could go 5-0 through the first five, cuz that aint gonna happen. I would just like to get through the preseason and be relatively healthy. If we dont have any key players out due to injury, we should be ready for district play!:D

[82 5A State Champs]

They had a very young team last year and finished 9-3.
We had a very young team last year as well and finished 10-2, beating Humble in district play 14-6! :eek:

[82 5A State Champs]

...that whole team was stacked with athletes...very fun to watch.Our QB that returns for his senior year this year, Christian Louis, is definitely going to make people take notice. The kid can run, and threw for over 2000 yards last season. Watch for him!

[KT2000]

We had a very young team last year as well and finished 10-2, beating Humble in district play 14-6! :eek:

Yes, both Humble and West Brook return good football teams. That's why they both appear in our pre-season top 25. Humble lost by 8 on the road, so it is not hard to imagine they could beat West Brook this year given the experience they return in addition to what the Bruins have. I believe if the two play again this year, it would be a good game. That's why they aren't separated by much in the rankings.

[Magellan]

Unfortunately, we currently play in a dinosaur of a stadium.......it only holds about 10,000 fans. HOWEVER, in about 2 years, when our new house is built, we should be able to accomodate 12-15,000 people! Field turf, natatorium, jumbo tron....the works! It will be a nice stadium when it's finished.

Have they even broken ground on the new stadium, yet? Last I heard, they were haggling over location at Ford Park and some other garbage that really should have been hammered out before the bond issue was proposed.

[Magellan]

You are absolutely right about Ozen coming in and taking most of WB's talent base. Ozen's first few years hit us hard and we are just now coming out of those dark days. As far as the Beaumont Bowl series, West Brook has won it 14 times against Central. Your Jags have won it 8 times. Lastly, we definitely have our work cut out for us in the preseason. With the schedule that we have, I would be satisfied if we ended up 3-2 after the first five games. I would be happy if we could win four of those to start district play 4-1. I'm not being unrealistic in thinking we could go 5-0 through the first five, cuz that aint gonna happen. I would just like to get through the preseason and be relatively healthy. If we dont have any key players out due to injury, we should be ready for district play!:D

You're making it sound like Ozen was the only reason WB fell on hard times. Not to knock a man who has already moved on, but I think coaching had a lot to do with West Bunk (sorry, had to bring back that term) falling on hard times.
Man, 14-8. The scoreboard on Beaumont Bowls isn't nearly as shocking as the thought that it's been going on for 22 years, especially since I didn't miss one until I moved from Bmt. Sadly, I only saw CHS win 3 Beaumont Bowls.
Even if y'all don't have a great season, at least you have local bragging rights.

[dada]

Admins....go ahead and make West Brook #1 in the region....we don't mind.....we'll just have a lot of threads to make if they don't live up to expectations;)

[HUM398]

We had a very young team last year as well and finished 10-2, beating Humble in district play 14-6! :eek:

We lost by 8... And it was in Beaumont(we all know that is a upper hand). Not to mention that it was a very intense game, and neither team emerged as the dominant one until the end of the game.

I wouldn't find it to be a snub at all if we had been ranked below west brook...no need to feel "overlooked".

[82 5A State Champs]

Have they even broken ground on the new stadium, yet? Last I heard, they were haggling over location at Ford Park and some other garbage that really should have been hammered out before the bond issue was proposed.
No, they haven't broken ground on it yet. Yes, they did decide on a location, though. It's going to be located on the IH-10 service road between Ford Park and the Petro truck stop. They are scheduled to start the project sometime this fall, from what I've heard.

[82 5A State Champs]

We lost by 8... And it was in Beaumont(we all know that is a upper hand). Not to mention that it was a very intense game, and neither team emerged as the dominant one until the end of the game.

I wouldn't find it to be a snub at all if we had been ranked below west brook...no need to feel "overlooked".
It was probably the best game that I saw all season.

[jc84chill]

Our QB that returns for his senior year this year, Christian Louis, is definitely going to make people take notice. The kid can run, and threw for over 2000 yards last season. Watch for him!

Yep, we are very familiar with his game... :) Michael and Louis are very exciting to watch.

Here's my two cents on the Humble vs. West Brook debate, which should give some insight into why we wouldn't agree with ranking West Brook 12th in the state preseason...

Defensively, both teams have similar numbers returning, but quality is where Humble holds the significant edge. They finished 9th in the state in PAPG last season and held three good teams and offenses (West Brook, Deer Park, and FB Hightower) over the course of their last four games to an average of 14 PPG.

West Brook gave up an average of 23 PPG against the three teams over .500 that they faced over their last four games (doesn't include giving up 33 pts. to Westfield earlier in the season). Those three teams were South Houston (not good on offense), Humble (even worse on offense), and FB Clements (good offensively, although shut out by Katy a couple weeks later). I would expect West Brook be improved on this side of the ball with the experience that returns, but I'm not sure they can improve as much as they need to.

"Well what about West Brook's high powered offense?"

I'll be interested to see if the offense can average 35 pts/game (like they did in '07) with Westfield, North Shore, Katy, and Eisenhower on the schedule.
The only real defenses of note that the offense faced last season were Westfield (which held WB 11 pts below their average PPG) and Humble (which held WB to 21 pts. below their average PPG). Outside of those two games, they played two 4A teams and the other eight opponents, which were pretty weak defensively, gave up an average of 26.6 PPG.

I feel like Humble will be improved "enough" offensively. They were a young offense which average 19 PPG and yet still managed to win 9 games and lost by a point to FB Hightower in the 2nd round of the playoffs. QB Keith Baker is back, Soph. RB Donovan Young who we've heard great things about takes over, along with three contributors at WR and four returning OL's. Like I said,
while they may not make a "significant" improvement on this side of the ball, they don't need to with such a stout defense.

In summary, what I'm trying to convey with all these "PPGs, PAPGs, pts, etc" is that I think Humble can improve enough offensively to compliment their defense to be ranked higher than West Brook whom I'm not confident will improve enough defensively to compliment their offense.

As far as ranking West Brook where we have them vs. where DCTF has them...

Defenses weigh pretty heavily in our rankings, especially the top 15 or so...you will only find a handful of teams that appear in the top 15 that didn't get it done on defense and in those cases we feel like they will be improving significantly in this area while still fielding a top 10 type offense.

[Fleeman93]

Yep, we are very familiar with his game... :) Michael and Louis are very exciting to watch.

Here's my two cents on the Humble vs. West Brook debate, which should give some insight into why we wouldn't agree with ranking West Brook 12th in the state preseason...

Defensively, both teams have similar numbers returning, but quality is where Humble holds the significant edge. They finished 9th in the state in PAPG last season and held three good teams and offenses (West Brook, Deer Park, and FB Hightower) over the course of their last four games to an average of 14 PPG.

West Brook gave up an average of 23 PPG against the three teams over .500 that they faced over their last four games (doesn't include giving up 33 pts. to Westfield earlier in the season). Those three teams were South Houston (not good on offense), Humble (even worse on offense), and FB Clements (good offensively, although shut out by Katy a couple weeks later). I would expect West Brook be improved on this side of the ball with the experience that returns, but I'm not sure they can improve as much as they need to.

"Well what about West Brook's high powered offense?"

I'll be interested to see if the offense can average 35 pts/game (like they did in '07) with Westfield, North Shore, Katy, and Eisenhower on the schedule.
The only real defenses of note that the offense faced last season were Westfield (which held WB 11 pts below their average PPG) and Humble (which held WB to 21 pts. below their average PPG). Outside of those two games, they played two 4A teams and the other eight opponents, which were pretty weak defensively, gave up an average of 26.6 PPG.

I feel like Humble will be improved "enough" offensively. They were a young offense which average 19 PPG and yet still managed to win 9 games and lost by a point to FB Hightower in the 2nd round of the playoffs. QB Keith Baker is back, Soph. RB Donovan Young who we've heard great things about takes over, along with three contributors at WR and four returning OL's. Like I said,
while they may not make a "significant" improvement on this side of the ball, they don't need to with such a stout defense.

In summary, what I'm trying to convey with all these "PPGs, PAPGs, pts, etc" is that I think Humble can improve enough offensively to compliment their defense to be ranked higher than West Brook whom I'm not confident will improve enough defensively to compliment their offense.

As far as ranking West Brook where we have them vs. where DCTF has them...

Defenses weigh pretty heavily in our rankings, especially the top 15 or so...you will only find a handful of teams that appear in the top 15 that didn't get it done on defense and in those cases we feel like they will be improving significantly in this area while still fielding a top 10 type offense.

Wow, I guess if there is such a thing as "laying it out there" then that would be it. Nice work Chill.

[Beaumont_Legend]

HAH.

Take that to all you adminsitrators, Katy fans, guys with a gazillion posts, etc.. and whoever had something to say while I questioned 5A Texasfootballs ranking of THE BROOK....lol....Dave Campbell guys and I are on the same page.....Boo Yah!

http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1932&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

Christian Michael on Dave Campbell Homepage

[Magellan]

HAH.

Take that to all you adminsitrators, Katy fans, guys with a gazillion posts, etc.. and whoever had something to say while I questioned 5A Texasfootballs ranking of THE BROOK....lol....Dave Campbell guys and I are on the same page.....Boo Yah!

http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1932&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

Christian Michael on Dave Campbell Homepage
http://www.texasfootball.com/

You had me until "Boo Yah!" It's nice that they explained their confidence in WB (they're giving a break-down of every top-25 team in countdown form), but it really doesn't change that 5ATF doesn't have the same confidence in the WB as DCTF. But, we're just 5 weeks from starting to sort this all out.

[wesaxman34]

The KTs and everyone gave legitimate answers to why they are ranked where they are. Give it some time for them to play through the regular season to justify a better spot...as KT2000 said before, the teams ranked lower than the top 10 are harder to predict than the teams that have proven to be well-established for the next season.

[dada]

you mean.....you mean.....every one DOSEN"T have the same OPINION????? wow....all this time I thought the opinions I agreed with mattered the most. Katy fans should listen to Dave...I think he has them in the title game this year despite losing the whole team. :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

Dave Campbells know everything

Signed
2003 The Colony Cougars picked to win district 6-5A over SLC and pre-season state ranked :eek:

[dada]

other notables:
dave has Ike at #23
Cy falls at #19
Pearland at #15

I'm starting to think that Beaumont Legend IS Dave Campbell.

[KT2000]

No need to slam Beaumont_Legend. The season will start soon enough and everything will fall into place as it always does.

Everyone's a state champion in July.

[dada]

Should have title this thread "DAVE CAMPBELL STANDS BY HIS OPINION"........surprise? I think not. I think I'm the hottest dude on this board....want me to clarify?

"Dada is hot":cool:

there ya go

[rodjohns]

Dave Cambpbells is a joke. They ranked Klein #5 in the District. They just pulled some of the players and other stuff right out of their ARS%$^&& just to hit the newstands on time.

[texan_75010]

It would be interesting to see Cambell's 2007 preseason pics and how they turned out.

Anyone have that????

[H-TownLion]

I do think DCTF has it wrong by not putting BWB and Hightower (and putting Cinco Ranch in) in the top 25, but like KT says, everything will fall into place once the season starts... It's so difficult to have an accurate preseason poll in any sport, and there's always a number of teams that are left out that are pretty good.

[KT2000]

From Sure Fire Ways to Get a Thread Locked...

"Respond to name calling with more name calling, and throw in a political jab for good measure."

[atwelljroc]

Everybody is going to pick the poll that ranks their school the highest...it's just in our nature, but come on...how many polls have been right at the beginning of the season till the end???...Some polls, like Dave Campbell's polls use info from a computer program that gives them numbers and ranks each team, player and coach...

High School Football is not played on a computer, it is played on the field, so until any team that shows on the field they are good...until every team shows on the field that they desire to be in the rankings...the rankings don't matter...cheer for your team, shout for your team, but if you use the polls to rank your team...you are trying to put football into too simple of terms, numbers???

Football at this level is not about the numbers, it is about the kids hearts, their coaches hearts and how they perform as a team in tough games...that's all, computers can't tell you that...that is not a stat that can be computed!!!

So let us all cheer and shout good things for our team and leave it at that...that is just my opinion, I could be wrong...

[82 5A State Champs]

Yep, we are very familiar with his game... :) Michael and Louis are very exciting to watch.

Here's my two cents on the Humble vs. West Brook debate, which should give some insight into why we wouldn't agree with ranking West Brook 12th in the state preseason...

Defensively, both teams have similar numbers returning, but quality is where Humble holds the significant edge. They finished 9th in the state in PAPG last season and held three good teams and offenses (West Brook, Deer Park, and FB Hightower) over the course of their last four games to an average of 14 PPG.

West Brook gave up an average of 23 PPG against the three teams over .500 that they faced over their last four games (doesn't include giving up 33 pts. to Westfield earlier in the season). Those three teams were South Houston (not good on offense), Humble (even worse on offense), and FB Clements (good offensively, although shut out by Katy a couple weeks later). I would expect West Brook be improved on this side of the ball with the experience that returns, but I'm not sure they can improve as much as they need to.

"Well what about West Brook's high powered offense?"

I'll be interested to see if the offense can average 35 pts/game (like they did in '07) with Westfield, North Shore, Katy, and Eisenhower on the schedule.
The only real defenses of note that the offense faced last season were Westfield (which held WB 11 pts below their average PPG) and Humble (which held WB to 21 pts. below their average PPG). Outside of those two games, they played two 4A teams and the other eight opponents, which were pretty weak defensively, gave up an average of 26.6 PPG.

I feel like Humble will be improved "enough" offensively. They were a young offense which average 19 PPG and yet still managed to win 9 games and lost by a point to FB Hightower in the 2nd round of the playoffs. QB Keith Baker is back, Soph. RB Donovan Young who we've heard great things about takes over, along with three contributors at WR and four returning OL's. Like I said,
while they may not make a "significant" improvement on this side of the ball, they don't need to with such a stout defense.

In summary, what I'm trying to convey with all these "PPGs, PAPGs, pts, etc" is that I think Humble can improve enough offensively to compliment their defense to be ranked higher than West Brook whom I'm not confident will improve enough defensively to compliment their offense.

As far as ranking West Brook where we have them vs. where DCTF has them...

Defenses weigh pretty heavily in our rankings, especially the top 15 or so...you will only find a handful of teams that appear in the top 15 that didn't get it done on defense and in those cases we feel like they will be improving significantly in this area while still fielding a top 10 type offense.
Very well said. I couldn't agree more about our defense. We did pretty well in stopping the run last year, but our pass defense was suspect all year. We did well against the Clements running game in the playoffs, but they beat us through the air. We have a new DC in place for this season and things should improve, but I have to agree with you in that it will still probably be our weakness. However, we "should" be able to put points on the board fairly easily. Hopefully that will take some of the pressure off of the defense. I believe I can quote one of our coaches as saying that, matter of factly, the teams that beat us are just gonna have to flat outscore us next year. Meaning, we should be able to put more points on the board than any of our opponents......hopefully.

[jc84chill]

From the DCTF write up that you linked...

"you might expect a drop-off after five members of last year's team signed DI scholarships. But if the defense can just approach the level of last year's unit, WB's offense might be good enough to make up for the difference."

"our friends at 5ATexasFootball.com just barely squeezed WB in their poll, ranking the team 25th. We can't speak for what others are thinking, but our confidence in WB comes from several areas, primarily the specialty of coach Craig Stump: the offense."

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread, we just have differing opinions...DCTF believes the offense will be strong enough to offset the defense. We aren't as confident that this will happen...

"Defenses weigh pretty heavily in our rankings, especially the top 15 or so...you will only find a handful of teams that appear in the top 15 that didn't get it done on defense and in those cases we feel like they will be improving significantly in this area while still fielding a top 10 type offense."

[jc84chill]

I re-opened this thread because I think we can have some good football discussion here, despite a few people.

There is a reason why we have another board called "The Yard"...keep the political discussion there.

[82 5A State Champs]

HAH.

Take that to all you adminsitrators, Katy fans, guys with a gazillion posts, etc.. and whoever had something to say while I questioned 5A Texasfootballs ranking of THE BROOK....lol....Dave Campbell guys and I are on the same page.....Boo Yah!

http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1932&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

Christian Michael on Dave Campbell Homepage
Legend, I can appreciate that you are hyped and upset about the two different rankings. But at this point, they dont mean anything. Yes, it's nice to be recognized by being ranked. But the rankings are based on what last years team did and the returners we have. Plus, we have some VERY TOUGH preseason opponents. Chances are, we will lose at least one of those games and will subsequently get knocked from the rankings. But, so what! It's just a ranking. It doesn't dictate wether we'll win or lose a game. The only way we're gonne earn any respect is by beating the good teams. I just dont want to see you have to put your foot in your mouth about being ranked if we get blown out by one of our opponents in weeks 2-4, or week 10. Just be cool, man!:D

[DRAGON PRIDE]

Very true but at least they make it fun.It gives us fans something to talk about. I didnt expect to see sw on dc rankings much less roosevelt.

[jc84chill]

Thread merged with the other one...

[atwelljroc]

KT2000-thought you closed this thread:confused::confused:

[jc84chill]

KT2000-thought you closed this thread:confused::confused:

He did, but I cleaned it up and re-opened it.

He's probably not very happy with me:eek:

[Trinity Trojan Fan For Li]

It would be interesting to see Cambell's 2007 preseason pics and how they turned out.

Anyone have that????


I was able to find Dave's 2007 top 5 list:
http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=17851&highlight=dave+campbell+2007

Trinity started #21 on Dave's list in 2007.

[jc84chill]

I was able to find Dave's 2007 top 5 list:
http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=17851&highlight=dave+campbell+2007

Trinity started #21 on Dave's list in 2007.

The Top 25 was listed on Page 2 of that thread by Toonman..

1 Southlake Carroll
2 Smithson Valley
3 Katy
4 Cedar Hill
5 Spring Westfield
6 San Antonio Madison
7 Grapevine
8 Allen
9 Garland
10 Rockwall
11 San Antomio O'Connor
12 Mesquite
13 Lufkin
14 Galena Park North Shore
15 San Antonio Warren
16 Austin Westlake
17 Abilene
18 Odessa Permian
19 DeSoto
20 Klein Oak
21 Euless Trinity
22 Cypress Fairbanks
23 Houston Stratford
24 San Antonio Reagan
25 Austin High

[Trinity Trojan Fan For Li]

Thanks jc84chill, I was too lazy to read past page 1.

[TrojanHorse03]

:Censor: the rankings!

Signed,
Euless Trinity

[TulsaHale74]

HAH.

Take that to all you adminsitrators, Katy fans, guys with a gazillion posts, etc.. and whoever had something to say while I questioned 5A Texasfootballs ranking of THE BROOK....lol....Dave Campbell guys and I are on the same page.....Boo Yah!

http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1932&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

Christian Michael on Dave Campbell Homepage
Since you're on the same page then you agree with the sentence in the article "Preseason rankings are very similar to recruiting rankings, in that depending on who you ask, you'll get a different assessment."

The lesson then is only ask people who you already agree with?:)

"A Closed Mind Is a Wonderful Thing to Lose."

[wesaxman34]

Thread merged with the other one...

I got so confused when I opened this thread up and saw the original "WB snubbed" posts at the beginning...

[jc84chill]

I got so confused when I opened this thread up when I saw the original "WB snubbed" posts at the beginning...

:D, sorry about that...we had two threads going about the same topic and I just wanted to clean the board up a bit.

[atwelljroc]

He did, but I cleaned it up and re-opened it.

He's probably not very happy with me:eek:

Well I had opened another thread giving my opinion of all pre-season polls...oh well

[jc84chill]

Well I had opened another thread giving my opinion of all pre-season polls...oh well

I merged it into this thread for ya...it should appear near the time you made the post.

[atwelljroc]

I merged it into this thread for ya...it should appear near the time you made the post.

Thanks man, I am too old to know how to do stuff like that, but as websites go, I think you guys here on 5Atexasfootball.com are the best...

[t00 playa]

You had me until "Boo Yah!" It's nice that they explained their confidence in WB (they're giving a break-down of every top-25 team in countdown form), but it really doesn't change that 5ATF doesn't have the same confidence in the WB as DCTF. But, we're just 5 weeks from starting to sort this all out.


yep....that response tells me someone is way too much into these preseason rankings..... as if a high preseason ranking gets you anything....... maybe it does and i dont know it?:eek:

[HUM398]

yep....that response tells me someone is way too much into these preseason rankings..... as if a high preseason ranking gets you anything....... maybe it does and i dont know it?:eek:

Well, i usually find it that those that put lots of stock into pre-season polls are usually new to the Fanatic following of HS football.

West Brook is good, no doubt...coaches normally don't buy into rankings, and really its just for the fans to get a good idea at what things look like without a single snap being taken....Pre-season rankings are tough to come up with, kudos to the KT's who have been far more accurate then DC...with less staff. (not to knock DC, he has some great stat book keeping...)

[atwelljroc]

I merged it into this thread for ya...it should appear near the time you made the post.


You guys picked the 2 champions from this last season at #2 and #3, didn't you??? So I will stick with you guys about the poll rankings, if I look at any...hey chill, maybe you can get with the other administrators and talk about having a fantasy football league using teams...he is how it was suggested to me...each week a poster will pick a team...if they win they move on to the next week, if they lose, you are out...each week you have to pick a different team from the teams that are listed on the winning side...and you can only use the same team twice, so no one can use their home town team each week, they would almost be smarter not picking them till late in the season (if they had a good team)...that means everyone would have to do a little work each week on the upcoming games, maybe have to have their picks in by Tuesday @ midnight...could run it off one thread or even start a section on the website where posters can pick...that way stats are not used, so keeping stats is not needed...just pick a winning team each week all threw the season and get down to the last two teams...when it gets to the playoffs, has each choose Big 5A or little 5A and at the end have two winners...nothing fancy, maybe a t-shirt bragging rights...what you think???

[jc84chill]

You guys picked the 2 champions from this last season at #2 and #3, didn't you??? So I will stick with you guys about the poll rankings, if I look at any...hey chill, maybe you can get with the other administrators and talk about having a fantasy football league using teams...he is how it was suggested to me...each week a poster will pick a team...if they win they move on to the next week, if they lose, you are out...each week you have to pick a different team from the teams that are listed on the winning side...and you can only use the same team twice, so no one can use their home town team each week, they would almost be smarter not picking them till late in the season (if they had a good team)...that means everyone would have to do a little work each week on the upcoming games, maybe have to have their picks in by Tuesday @ midnight...could run it off one thread or even start a section on the website where posters can pick...that way stats are not used, so keeping stats is not needed...just pick a winning team each week all threw the season and get down to the last two teams...when it gets to the playoffs, has each choose Big 5A or little 5A and at the end have two winners...nothing fancy, maybe a t-shirt bragging rights...what you think???

This sounds like an interesting concept, I'll run it by the other guys and see what they think. We have several things that we want to try and do this season, so I'll add this as another possibility.

[atwelljroc]

This sounds like an interesting concept, I'll run it by the other guys and see what they think. We have several things that we want to try and do this season, so I'll add this as another possibility.

That is great, but I can't take credit for it, but I thought it sounded possible???

[Magellan]

Everybody is going to pick the poll that ranks their school the highest...it's just in our nature, but come on...how many polls have been right at the beginning of the season till the end???...Some polls, like Dave Campbell's polls use info from a computer program that gives them numbers and ranks each team, player and coach...

High School Football is not played on a computer, it is played on the field, so until any team that shows on the field they are good...until every team shows on the field that they desire to be in the rankings...the rankings don't matter...cheer for your team, shout for your team, but if you use the polls to rank your team...you are trying to put football into too simple of terms, numbers???

Football at this level is not about the numbers, it is about the kids hearts, their coaches hearts and how they perform as a team in tough games...that's all, computers can't tell you that...that is not a stat that can be computed!!!

So let us all cheer and shout good things for our team and leave it at that...that is just my opinion, I could be wrong...

Football isn't played with the computer? You mean that going undefeated on Madden 09 with the Cowboys doesn't mean they're guaranteed to win the Super Bowl?

Or do you mean that you really can't figure out from how kids played 40 weeks of working out ago exactly how every play is going to shake down? Next thing you're going to say is that players who may have missed a tackle last year may have gained a step and prevent a big play this year.

Dude, you're blowing my mind!

[nevaplayedk9]

I dont know you we can have 4 guys on the all region 3 team and still be ranked #7 in the region. I also dont understand how Humble can be ranked higher than us. Thats ridiculous. The preaseason poll has us ranked #25 in the state. However..Dave Campbells has us ranked #12. Huge difference! I would say the Texas HS "Bible" is much more accurate with their rankings.....lol

ranking should
not get u upset.....it's how you finish that speaks for itself

[dada]

hmmmmm...I WONDER who they are talking about?..listen to pod cast
http://www.athletesconnection.com/content/view/3101/26/

[jc84chill]

hmmmmm...I WONDER who they are talking about?..listen to pod cast
http://www.athletesconnection.com/content/view/3101/26/

Thanks for the link dada...good listen.

[Magellan]

Hold on! I just remembered that West Brook wasn't preseason #1 the year they won state. Everyone thought it'd take them a year or two to become 1 cohesive team, after merging Hebert and Forest Park.
So, I guess I'm saying West Brook is an example of the rankings not meaning everything. :eek:

[dada]

Hold on! I just remembered that West Brook wasn't preseason #1 the year they won state. Everyone thought it'd take them a year or two to become 1 cohesive team, after merging Hebert and Forest Park.
So, I guess I'm saying West Brook is an example of the rankings not meaning everything. :eek:

there have been several teams that won state that werent ranked #1 in the preseason....take preseason polls for what they are worth...conversation until the season starts.

[82 5A State Champs]

Hold on! I just remembered that West Brook wasn't preseason #1 the year they won state. Everyone thought it'd take them a year or two to become 1 cohesive team, after merging Hebert and Forest Park.
So, I guess I'm saying West Brook is an example of the rankings not meaning everything. :eek:
That was also the first year that the UIL allowed a district runner-up team to make the playoffs. So, if that hadn't happened, they wouldn't have even made the postseason. I may be wrong, but I dont believe West Brook has EVER been ranked #1 in the state rankings. The highest I recall was the 1991 season, where the Bruins got to as high as #4.

[Beaumont_Legend]

1992 team was ranked #5 in Final Poll. That was James Brown's senior year..


http://collier-sharp.com/ap925.html

[82 5A State Champs]

1992 team was ranked #5 in Final Poll. That was James Brown's senior year..


http://collier-sharp.com/ap925.html
I know, I graduated with him! I never missed a game while I was in HS. 1991 was 10-0 and #4, 1992 was also 10-0, #5.