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DiamondJ2
07-17-2008, 10:51 PM
AUSTIN — The State Board of Education today will discuss increasing the credit for high school athletics from two to four, putting athletics on an equal footing with other extracurricular electives, supporters say.

The push follows new state requirements that increase the number of credits students need to graduate from 24 to 26, beginning with students graduating in 2011.

Supporters of the plan say the new graduation requirements reduce the time available for students to compete in sports.

Plus, they note, students who participate in four years of theater, band or choir, for example, earn four credits toward high school graduation.

Opponents of the plan, however, worry it could diminish academics. The board could vote on the measure later this year. Board Chairman Dr. Don McLeroy, R-Bryan, supports the idea, as do most of his colleagues on the 15-member board. “I think athletics is fantastic for the kids because we are more than just brains. We are a whole body. You have to deal with the entire person,” McLeroy said.

The issue is picking up attention because of new state requirements that students take four years each of science, math, English and social studies, along with 3 1/2 years of electives and other required classes, such as two years of foreign language and 1 1/2 years of physical education, for a total of 26 credits in the recommended or distinguished high school programs.

Currently, students get two years of credit for participating in sports — counted as 1 1/2 years of physical education and 1/2 year as an elective course. A credit equals one year of study in a particular subject.

Under the new proposed changes, the two additional years of athletics would count as part of the elective courses needed to graduate.

“Athletics is the only elective you get two years of credit for four years of participation,” said D.W. Rutledge, executive director of the Texas High School Coaches Association. “Everything else — marching band, dance, ROTC — gets full credit for four years of participation. It’s been like that for years, and we’ve always felt it wasn’t right. But it wasn’t a problem when there were only 24 credits required. But now there’s no room left in the schedule with 26 credits required.”

Board member Terri Leo, R-Spring, opposes the idea if applied statewide.
“We’re supposed to add academic rigor to the day. Adding two more credits for athletics, then, is two credits less that a student will have to take for advanced chemistry,” she said. “They already don’t have that many electives.” She believes students should be earning credits for elective courses that are more academic in nature.

“If the board is going to go down this road, we need a broader discussion on this,” Leo said. And she prefers it be left up to local school boards, which is currently possible, she said, by applying for “innovative course” credits.

But some board members say public feedback is nearly universally favorable for increasing the number of credits for athletics. “I don’t have a real problem with that as long as you are meeting the core requirements,” said board member Ken Mercer, R-San Antonio.

High school athletes would be penalized if their participation doesn’t earn more credits with the graduation threshold now moving to 26 credits, Mercer said.

“If you can do the four-by-four basics and meet the graduation requirements (and still play sports), then more power to them,” Mercer said.

Keeping students active in sports also helps them stay in school, said Rutledge of the 19,000-member coaches association. Texas already faces a critical dropout problem affecting about 33 percent of high school students.
“If we don’t correct this, it could negatively impact one of the best at-risk programs that we have,” Rutledge said, adding that athletic competition helps develop character and leadership skills.

O’Connor High School football coach Danny Padron said the limits on elective courses puts athletes at a disadvantage.

“A lot of our kids, the freshman classes that are coming in, are taking summer classes to get a head start,” he said. “They want to be able to make their own choices down the road. ... Everyone else is using their electives as an elective, so why can’t we (in athletics)?”

Board member Patricia “Pat” Hardy, R-Fort Worth, agreed it’s an equity issue.
“Of the people I’ve heard from, 99.9 percent say, ‘yes,’ it should be counted as four years, so I don’t have a problem with that at all,” she said. “I can’t see the argument against it.”

Member Bob Craig, R-Lubbock, also views the issue in terms of equity.
“How do I say that swimming, tennis, football only get two years of credits for four years of participation when, in truth, I give ROTC and band four credits for four years of participation?” he said.


Hopefully, the State Board will do the right thing and vote to allow elective credits for all semesters participating in athletics. The athletes deserve it just as much as the ROTC, Band, Choir, Theater, etc. students.

LUV FOOTBALL
07-18-2008, 12:48 PM
Terri Leo R-spring is probably educated beyound believe, but is as dumb as dirt imo and anybody else who thinks this is a bad idea. At a time when obesity is a problem in our state it should be a no brainer. Just like the drug testing, it is a good idea but "the educated beyound believe" :Censor: this up also. It should be passed in all districts. I thought 1+1+1+1=4. I'd like to say that a mind is a terriable thing to waste and so is the body, Terry Leo you've probably wasted both,body and mind go hand in hand.

TulsaHale74
07-18-2008, 01:38 PM
Terri Leo R-spring is probably educated beyound believe, but is as dumb as dirt imo and anybody else who thinks this is a bad idea. At a time when obesity is a problem in our state it should be a no brainer. Just like the drug testing, it is a good idea but "the educated beyound believe" :Censor: this up also. It should be passed in all districts. I thought 1+1+1+1=4. I'd like to say that a mind is a terriable thing to waste and so is the body, Terry Leo you've probably wasted both,body and mind go hand in hand.
wel sed we dew knot ned edukatud pepul mor cred for football wil preevent obescity;)

Magellan
07-18-2008, 06:59 PM
Terri Leo R-spring is probably educated beyound believe, but is as dumb as dirt imo and anybody else who thinks this is a bad idea. At a time when obesity is a problem in our state it should be a no brainer. Just like the drug testing, it is a good idea but "the educated beyound believe" :Censor: this up also. It should be passed in all districts. I thought 1+1+1+1=4. I'd like to say that a mind is a terriable thing to waste and so is the body, Terry Leo you've probably wasted both,body and mind go hand in hand.

You're right. By letting already athletic kids get more PE credits, this will cure apathy among HS students and cure obesity!
The problem people don't seem to understand is that we're not doing the math. We're worried about PE credits when, if kids aren't flunking courses, they won't have any problem graduating... especially when a lot of them take classes like Health in MS to get ahead and give themselves breathing room for their HS careers.

LUV FOOTBALL
07-18-2008, 09:49 PM
wel sed we dew knot ned edukatud pepul mor cred for football wil preevent obescity;)

lol I knew my spelling was bad but yours sucks lol.

Royal85
07-20-2008, 10:09 AM
Using "obesity" as a point of argument in favor of this does not work. You are talking about issuing additional credit to those involved in athletics...not the average student who takes PE...which is where most of the sedentary students w/ weight problems are. Athletes are going to typically be in four years of athletics whether they get the additional credit or not...so the majority of these kids are going to be in physical shape regardless. Using obesity in the discussion doesn't make any sense. The real issue is that there are those out there who believe "dance" and "marching band" are more academic in nature than athletics. Those people haven't sat in an offensive or defensive meeting or been out on a practice field when "lessons" are being taught and concepts and strategies are being executed as a test of what was learned. Those opposed to this proposal are ignorant of what goes on on a day-to-day basis in high school athletics. My 2 cents.

LUV FOOTBALL
07-20-2008, 07:03 PM
My bad :o

twcpmed
07-22-2008, 09:53 AM
Being Class of 11 :Censor: sucks because we now have to take more classes. Being an trainer I already have a busy schedual cause I work practices, then Football, then go into basketball and finally soft ball. By the way I travel with all varsity level in these sports this leaves no time for homework or projects neverless a job. And yes athletis does put kids at a disadvantge because if u are geting a 6.0 on a 4.0 scale and althletis maxes out at 4.0 u jus droped your gpa. So adding more credits i belive is a bad Idea because I now have to worry about fufilling more class requirements:mad:

Magellan
07-22-2008, 10:07 AM
Being Class of 11 :Censor: sucks because we now have to take more classes. Being an trainer I already have a busy schedual cause I work practices, then Football, then go into basketball and finally soft ball. By the way I travel with all varsity level in these sports this leaves no time for homework or projects neverless a job. And yes athletis does put kids at a disadvantge because if u are geting a 6.0 on a 4.0 scale and althletis maxes out at 4.0 u jus droped your gpa. So adding more credits i belive is a bad Idea because I now have to worry about fufilling more class requirements:mad:

I've seen kids be in athletics and band end up as valedictorians. It just means you have to do your best in the core and elective classes with "AP" and "Concurrent Credit" in front of them. And, honestly, blaming Athletics PE and your duties related to it for a poor GPA doesn't hold much weight with that many typos (not going to enumerate them out of courtesy).

TulsaHale74
07-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Being Class of 11 :Censor: sucks because we now have to take more classes. Being an trainer I already have a busy schedual cause I work practices, then Football, then go into basketball and finally soft ball. By the way I travel with all varsity level in these sports this leaves no time for homework or projects neverless a job. And yes athletis does put kids at a disadvantge because if u are geting a 6.0 on a 4.0 scale and althletis maxes out at 4.0 u jus droped your gpa. So adding more credits i belive is a bad Idea because I now have to worry about fufilling more class requirements:mad:
Being a trainer is a choice you have made.

You say being a trainer leaves you no time for academic endeavors. Your spelling and grammar validates you haven't used your time for academics. I recommend you and your parents reevaluate your choice to be a trainer.

The best argument for accepting additional high school credit for athletic classes is for those people with a potential gain to demonstrate they have mastered the core competencies.

This is just a message board and I don't expect the same grammar that should be demonstrated in a school paper. However, this forum's software includes a spell checker and I'm surprised when people don't use it. I'm not expecting any of us to be Stephen Wilbers (http://www.wilbers.com/) but arguing athletics vs. academics is a good time to demonstrate your best work.

crunked9
07-22-2008, 11:02 AM
I think students shouldn't get any Credit for Athletics. They are there to get an education! Is athletics important, yes. Vey important. But the fact is that most kids who play football or and sports take easy classes to make sure they pass. Highschool is turning into College for athletes. These kids aren't getting prepared for college, but really it doesnt matter b/c if they go to a big enough college for sports then they don't have to take real classes. So who really cares. I think kids should get athletic credits for high school in middle school. That way they can have more time to do nothing but sports in high school.

Lets get real people, the "student" in student-athlete is gone! and it starts in high school. And the road that we are on now doesn't lead to a very good situation.

DragonFan0316
07-22-2008, 11:13 AM
Using "obesity" as a point of argument in favor of this does not work. You are talking about issuing additional credit to those involved in athletics...not the average student who takes PE...which is where most of the sedentary students w/ weight problems are. Athletes are going to typically be in four years of athletics whether they get the additional credit or not...so the majority of these kids are going to be in physical shape regardless. Using obesity in the discussion doesn't make any sense. The real issue is that there are those out there who believe "dance" and "marching band" are more academic in nature than athletics. Those people haven't sat in an offensive or defensive meeting or been out on a practice field when "lessons" are being taught and concepts and strategies are being executed as a test of what was learned. Those opposed to this proposal are ignorant of what goes on on a day-to-day basis in high school athletics. My 2 cents.

Well said. I agree.:notworthy

RRSP1
07-22-2008, 12:36 PM
I think students shouldn't get any Credit for Athletics. They are there to get an education! Is athletics important, yes. Vey important. But the fact is that most kids who play football or and sports take easy classes to make sure they pass. Highschool is turning into College for athletes. These kids aren't getting prepared for college, but really it doesnt matter b/c if they go to a big enough college for sports then they don't have to take real classes. So who really cares. I think kids should get athletic credits for high school in middle school. That way they can have more time to do nothing but sports in high school.

Lets get real people, the "student" in student-athlete is gone! and it starts in high school. And the road that we are on now doesn't lead to a very good situation.


PE type credits have been required for decades, so the athletes should at least receive equivalent credit. Same as the band kids should receive the minimum credits required in the arts. Broadly, though, all the extracurriculars should be treated the same - that's the goal of the current proposal.

mojoguy
07-22-2008, 12:38 PM
Give the kids the same credit as the band kids. If you're going to put yourself on the line and work that hard at something, you deserve credit no matter what it is. I worked harder and learned more about becoming a decent person from football than I did in any of my so-called honors or AP classes. My best friend missed out on Valedictorian because some band girl got extra GPA points for her extracurricular and football brought his down. It's not right.

LoneRocket
07-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Give the kids the same credit as the band kids. If you're going to put yourself on the line and work that hard at something, you deserve credit no matter what it is. I worked harder and learned more about becoming a decent person from football than I did in any of my so-called honors or AP classes. My best friend missed out on Valedictorian because some band girl got extra GPA points for her extracurricular and football brought his down. It's not right.

GPA and Credits are two different issues, They are talking about giving state credit for four years of PE type classes instead of 1.5. You are talking about giving honors grade points for taking a PE type course, I believe some districts give that for certain Band/Music and Dance courses.

mojoguy
07-22-2008, 02:20 PM
GPA and Credits are two different issues, They are talking about giving state credit for four years of PE type classes instead of 1.5. You are talking about giving honors grade points for taking a PE type course, I believe some districts give that for certain Band/Music and Dance courses.

I was under the impression that the GPA is calculated only from classes that a student can be given a credit for. Maybe I was wrong. My point is that they should all be counted equally. It's not right to give some students four years of guaranteed credits for their extracurriculars and others only one either.

Magellan
07-22-2008, 06:56 PM
I was under the impression that the GPA is calculated only from classes that a student can be given a credit for. Maybe I was wrong. My point is that they should all be counted equally. It's not right to give some students four years of guaranteed credits for their extracurriculars and others only one either.

The state created a "local credit" category for classes like Athletics PE, Office Aide, and the like where the district can give the student a grade and credit, but it doesn't count toward graduation, but do count toward their GPA.
The difference that people aren't taking into account is that Athletics PE is 2 semesters of PE credit while Band, Dance, and the other actvities that are being mentioned are providing FINE ARTS credit. They aren't giving kids 4 PE credits. There's not much athletic about band in the spring semester- it's preparation for concerts and concert/sight-reading contest.
The state, I'm sure, has tried to find a way to get Athletics PE to be an elective of some sort for those who take it both semesters, but there's bound to be a stipulation in the NCLB that prevents them from doing it. I don't think that many would be up in arms if, after 2 PE credits, the kids could get elective credit for it.

DiamondJ2
07-24-2008, 08:21 PM
San Antonio Express-News Editorial:

Athletics deserve equal footing with other extracurricular electives when it comes to high school credit.

To add fairness to the system, the State Board of Education should change the rules governing the maximum number of credits high school athletes can earn for their participation in sports.

A proposal to make the change is under discussion, and a decision could be made later this year, the Express-News reported.

Currently, student athletes who participate in four years of high school sports only get two years of course credit.

They can earn only a maximum of 1.5 credits for physical education and half of a credit as an elective.

However, students who participate in band, dance, ROTC and theater get full credit for four years of participation.

The situation is nonsensical.

To participate in their sport, high school athletes must maintain passing grades.

And they still have to take a prescribed number of math, science, language arts and social studies courses.

Academic rigor is crucial to producing graduates that are prepared to deal with the job market, but supporters of the change note that sports help keep students in school, the newspaper reported.

And sports are as enriching as other electives, such as band.

The board should allow two additional elective credits for athletes to be counted as electives as they rightly deserve.

Supporters are not asking that athletes get special treatment, but only that they be treated like everyone else.

The additional two credits sought for student athletes will make a big difference starting in 2011 when new state requirements mandate students have 26 credits to graduate.

State rules currently only mandate 24 credits.

Leveling the playing field for athletes is the right approach.