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View Full Version : How can Austin ISD 5A ball be improved?



rkhufu7
06-18-2008, 03:24 PM
What can be done beyond what AD Cox and crew are doing to aid Bowie and Austin at becoming as good as they can get w/o being called Reagan or LBJ? How can they start winning playoff games and making semis and state title games in the top sport of FOOTBALL!

bowiedawgs01
06-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Cox has had to start from the bottom. Austin does not spend big on high school sports. It's always been that way. He's now in the middle of upgrading the facilities around town. But until they give the money to entice coaches that want more than $50k a year, they'll continue to be good but not great.

WoodzDad
06-19-2008, 07:35 AM
I've got an idea for you having grown up in Austin. Get the whole high school community to participate -- that means parents from the band, cheerleaders, drill team and the student body all participating in the football expeirience.

I was quite surprised when I went to my first The Woodlands vs Conroe game to watch a Conroe Golden Girl (my wifes cousin). Buddy Moorehaed Stadium was full and there was excitement in the air that Friday night. More adults than I had ever seen at an Austin game, save Westlake, in my life.

But turning football around in the city of Austin might be a lost cause. Getting Austinites to turn out in the numbers that will fill Burger, Nelson field or even House Park you would need to have free Starbucks latte night. Too many Austinites are chained to bulldozers trying to save a snail darter to be bothered by football.:eek:

rkhufu7
06-19-2008, 08:00 AM
I've got an idea for you having grown up in Austin. Get the whole high school community to participate -- that means parents from the band, cheerleaders, drill team and the student body all participating in the football expeirience.

I was quite surprised when I went to my first The Woodlands vs Conroe game to watch a Conroe Golden Girl (my wifes cousin). Buddy Moorehaed Stadium was full and there was excitement in the air that Friday night. More adults than I had ever seen at an Austin game, save Westlake, in my life.

But turning football around in the city of Austin might be a lost cause. Getting Austinites to turn out in the numbers that will fill Burger, Nelson field or even House Park you would need to have free Starbucks latte night. Too many Austinites are chained to bulldozers trying to save a snail darter to be bothered by football.:eek:

The teams from SA in the NE ISD have enrollments in the 3Ks, why does Austin build small schools and campuses, yet have less turnout? Dallas Skyline has over 5K kids there. Austin has numbers, just not the athletes, their feeders don't have great football/track teams, but they do send in 9th grade teams of over 100 players. Austin has more than enough to two platoon like San Marcos, Judson and 3A, Liberty Hill do.

bowiedawgs01
06-19-2008, 09:09 AM
I've got an idea for you having grown up in Austin. Get the whole high school community to participate -- that means parents from the band, cheerleaders, drill team and the student body all participating in the football expeirience.

I was quite surprised when I went to my first The Woodlands vs Conroe game to watch a Conroe Golden Girl (my wifes cousin). Buddy Moorehaed Stadium was full and there was excitement in the air that Friday night. More adults than I had ever seen at an Austin game, save Westlake, in my life.

But turning football around in the city of Austin might be a lost cause. Getting Austinites to turn out in the numbers that will fill Burger, Nelson field or even House Park you would need to have free Starbucks latte night. Too many Austinites are chained to bulldozers trying to save a snail darter to be bothered by football.:eek:

Bowie has great turnout and great parent involvement in everything, not just sports. We filled the visitor's side of Westlake last year before there were 20 ppl on the home side. I was in line more than 2 hours before the game. We filled up our side of Burger for the Austin High game, as well as most of our side for the Judson game. The support is there.

And your comment about Austinites being chained to bulldozers is only partly true. There are a lot of us that are not that way. I make sure to say I'm a South Austinite. I'm not a yuppie from North Austin or a hippie from Central Austin. South Austin where Bowie is located is a pretty conservative place. But you're right that the other faction hurts us when it comes to spending on sports.

LoneRocket
06-19-2008, 09:24 AM
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bowiedawgs01
06-19-2008, 09:39 AM
The feeders are a pain. I transferred to Porter MS instead of going to Bowie's feeder. They had a better football program and is where my mom, aunt, sister and cousins went. That school fed Crockett and Travis mostly. With some going to Austin. A few of us went to Bowie. Now, Porter got shut down and turned into some leadership school for girls.

I would say most of the feeders get split up, but I haven't seen districting zones lately.

LoneRocket
06-19-2008, 09:48 AM
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bowiedawgs01
06-19-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm not sure how it is now since I've been out of school a little while. I'll have to look into it. But I remember I was able to transfer to a different Elem. and MS because they weren't at capacity or something. But you couldn't transfer into Bowie because it was already too big. No idea if that applies to any other schools.

Bowie is pretty well isolated for now. They get Bailey MS, I think entirely. I think they get part of another MS as well. It's the inner city schools that get screwed on the feeders.

The Great Evaluator
06-19-2008, 10:01 AM
In a word coaching. I've always felt it made a bigger difference at the high school level more than anywhere else. If you look at the teams who win consistently the common thread is an experienced well paid coach. There are almost no exceptions to this.

Look at Bowie before Kenny Perry got there. Or Marcus before Bryan Erwin. Trinity before Steve Lineweaver. Ennis before Sam Harrell or Denton Ryan before Joey Florence.

Ft Worth ISD faces the same problem that Austin does. The coaches don't get paid squat and the teams in that district never get any better.

Get yourself a good coach, the team starts winning and all of a sudden the community buys in to what's going on.

rkhufu7
06-19-2008, 10:09 AM
In a word coaching. I've always felt it made a bigger difference at the high school level more than anywhere else. If you look at the teams who win consistently the common thread is an experienced well paid coach. There are almost no exceptions to this.

Look at Bowie before Kenny Perry got there. Or Marcus before Bryan Erwin. Trinity before Steve Lineweaver. Ennis before Sam Harrell or Denton Ryan before Joey Florence.

Ft Worth ISD faces the same problem that Austin does. The coaches don't get paid squat and the teams in that district never get any better.

Get yourself a good coach, the team starts winning and all of a sudden the community buys in to what's going on.

Reagan used to get half of Pearce, Dobie and Lamar. Those schools, especially Pearce were loaded with talent! Add in the AISD easy transfer policies back in the days, and Reagan and the "J" got all the talent. AISD says Bowie is filled, but they have about 2500 kids or so, while in the playoffs they have faced Judson with 3500-5000 kids, Madison with 3000 plus and Reagan with nearly 3500. It is easier for the 4A schools to win, like McCallum and LBJ, but match them up vs Bowie or Austin and they get SLAUGHTERED because they don't have athletics periods and the kids just practice after school and can't grow and develop as a team in a good strength and conditioning program. Gideon, Hill (SV) and the Round Rock coaches are pretty good! Lake Travis just hired great coach, who is maybe better than what they lost.

WoodzDad
06-19-2008, 10:09 AM
And your comment about Austinites being chained to bulldozers is only partly true. There are a lot of us that are not that way. I make sure to say I'm a South Austinite. I'm not a yuppie from North Austin or a hippie from Central Austin. South Austin where Bowie is located is a pretty conservative place. But you're right that the other faction hurts us when it comes to spending on sports.

Truthfully, I was quite shocked that Austin High was good last year. The last time Austin High had a competitive team had to of been the mid fifites. Bowie wasn't built when I was in Austin, but true South Austin is more conservative and more football friendly -- Much like Reagan and Lanier in the late sixties and early seventies before LJB.

The inconvenient truth is Central Austin bureaucrats and media set the agengas. Just look at Kirk Bohls and his pride in not being a homer for the Horns. The Dallas Morning news has better coverage of the the Horns in season than the Statesman. Everything sports in Austin gets distorted through a critical and confrontational lens.

The mentality is it's just a game not a multi-billion dollar industry -- Oh and industry is bad too! Good luck -- the deck is stacked against you in Austin.

caesarscott
06-19-2008, 11:57 AM
part of AISD's problem is they have too many schools. what talent there is has been spread out. the other problem is the same as every other inner city ISD, they just don't compete well in athletics. it's all about the suburbs

i've also heard that coaches salaries are tied to how long they've been there rather than just hiring in a winning coach

an AISD team hasn't won a State Title since 1970. i don't expect to see that change any time soon

The Great Evaluator
06-19-2008, 12:13 PM
Reagan used to get half of Pearce, Dobie and Lamar. Those schools, especially Pearce were loaded with talent! Add in the AISD easy transfer policies back in the days, and Reagan and the "J" got all the talent. AISD says Bowie is filled, but they have about 2500 kids or so, while in the playoffs they have faced Judson with 3500-5000 kids, Madison with 3000 plus and Reagan with nearly 3500. It is easier for the 4A schools to win, like McCallum and LBJ, but match them up vs Bowie or Austin and they get SLAUGHTERED because they don't have athletics periods and the kids just practice after school and can't grow and develop as a team in a good strength and conditioning program. Gideon, Hill (SV) and the Round Rock coaches are pretty good! Lake Travis just hired great coach, who is maybe better than what they lost.

Agreed, you're making my point. Those programs have all done well over the last few years. SV came within a whisker of winning state in 04 and are always a contender. Round Rock pulled the upset of the 06 playoffs taking down Lufkin and Leander had a nice run last year. LT won state. The common thread being great coaching. You can have all the talent in the world but without great coaching it doesn't go far - ask Aldine Eisenhower.

the_great_state_of_TExas
06-19-2008, 01:04 PM
Truthfully, I was quite shocked that Austin High was good last year. The last time Austin High had a competitive team had to of been the mid fifites.


You can give the Austin High OC credit for their success.

picperp
06-19-2008, 02:21 PM
Cox has had to start from the bottom. Austin does not spend big on high school sports. It's always been that way. He's now in the middle of upgrading the facilities around town. But until they give the money to entice coaches that want more than $50k a year, they'll continue to be good but not great.

Dawg's right: the bottom line is AISD can't be compared to any suburban district. It has to be compared to AISD, HISD, FWISD, etc. Middle schools don't act as feeders b/c there's a lot more issues that require more $$ and attention than sports.

Coaching hasn't helped. Tommy is a better administrator than a coach. Think of some of the athletes Bowie has produced in its 20+ years and not a playoff win that I can recall. Victor Ike, the Griffin twins, loaded track teams and weighlifting teams every year. ...

BTW As I'm sure most of you know but maybe not everyone: Westlake is in its own district w/ two feeder middle schools.

Also, 5A football in AISD is better than its ever been since LBJ and Reagan dropped to 4A in the late '80s, sad to say.

WoodzDad
06-19-2008, 04:07 PM
Cox has had to start from the bottom. Austin does not spend big on high school sports. It's always been that way. He's now in the middle of upgrading the facilities around town. But until they give the money to entice coaches that want more than $50k a year, they'll continue to be good but not great.

The Statesman will be sure to point out how much any good coach makes:
http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/highschools/index_salaries.html

Top Salaries:
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/pdf/coaching_salaries.pdf

trojanbacker
06-19-2008, 04:24 PM
That was actually a pretty positive article considering it was the AAS. One thing that I'm puzzled by after looking at the list of coaching salaries is that Lineweaver (Trinity) is actually making LESS than the position payed in 1995. How does that happen after winning two state championships? It also bothers me that he is paid exactly the same as our cross-town rivals (Bell) even though the program there is a far cry from Trinity's in terms of success, numbers, community support, etc.

picperp
06-19-2008, 04:41 PM
That was actually a pretty positive article considering it was the AAS. One thing that I'm puzzled by after looking at the list of coaching salaries is that Lineweaver (Trinity) is actually making LESS than the position payed in 1995. How does that happen after winning two state championships? It also bothers me that he is paid exactly the same as our cross-town rivals (Bell) even though the program there is a far cry from Trinity's in terms of success, numbers, community support, etc.

How is he getting less? Not to get political, but we're talking $$ for schools, so the answer to 'how' is three letters: G-O-P. :)

WoodzDad
06-19-2008, 04:47 PM
The feeders are a pain. I transferred to Porter MS instead of going to Bowie's feeder. They had a better football program and is where my mom, aunt, sister and cousins went. That school fed Crockett and Travis mostly. With some going to Austin. A few of us went to Bowie. Now, Porter got shut down and turned into some leadership school for girls.

I would say most of the feeders get split up, but I haven't seen districting zones lately.

Feeder schools... This is a good point...

Every 7th and 8th grader that goes to The Woodlands HS attends McCullough Jr. High. 7th and 8th graders learn the system used at the high school and the Jr. High coaches are at every high school game on the sidelines. Because McCullough was the old high school the mascot and colors are even the same.

Once, in little league football a Kingwood coach told me they had to use the Kingwood high school system before the HS coach would let them use his field for practice.

Feeder schools... What does Katy do?

twcpfan1
06-19-2008, 04:57 PM
Feeder schools... This is a good point...

Every 7th and 8th grader that goes to The Woodlands HS attends McCullough Jr. High. 7th and 8th graders learn the system used at the high school and the Jr. High coaches are at every high school game on the sidelines. Because McCullough was the old high school the mascot and colors are even the same.

Once, in little league football a Kingwood coach told me they had to use the Kingwood high school system before the HS coach would let them use his field for practice.

Feeder schools... What does Katy do?

I wonder if Knox will ever change their school colors. I can still remember the State Championship game in 2003. They sat the Knox and Branch Crossing (now McCullough) drill teams together and alternately to get that red and green effect.

Now that Knox feeds into CP, maybe a color change is forthcoming.

WoodzDad
06-19-2008, 05:03 PM
That was actually a pretty positive article considering it was the AAS. One thing that I'm puzzled by after looking at the list of coaching salaries is that Lineweaver (Trinity) is actually making LESS than the position payed in 1995. How does that happen after winning two state championships? It also bothers me that he is paid exactly the same as our cross-town rivals (Bell) even though the program there is a far cry from Trinity's in terms of success, numbers, community support, etc.

It looks like the story is two years old. Can't find any current salaries, but ESPN and Dallas Morning News picked up the same the storyline.

ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2562629

Dallas Morning News:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/topstories/stories/010806dnspocoachsalaries.2a4475f.html

blank
06-19-2008, 05:58 PM
You can give the Austin High OC credit for their success.

You are kidding, right?

All the credit goes to the head coach at Austin High, Rodney Vincent. He's built that program. He'd be the first to give credit to his assistants, but he's the one that has built the program there, despite the obstacles from AISD.

picperp
06-19-2008, 06:11 PM
Vincent is one of the best in the area, IMO. Frankly, I'm surprised he's still w/ AISD.

blank
06-19-2008, 06:51 PM
Yeah, Coach Vincent is a great coach.

After reading what I typed, I did not mean to disrespect the OC at Austin High. I just thought it odd that the OC gets credit, and not the Head Coach. Danny Faust has done a great job there. He does deserve credit. Great guy!

DiamondJ2
06-19-2008, 08:02 PM
Reagan used to get half of Pearce, Dobie and Lamar. Those schools, especially Pearce were loaded with talent! Add in the AISD easy transfer policies back in the days, and Reagan and the "J" got all the talent. AISD says Bowie is filled, but they have about 2500 kids or so, while in the playoffs they have faced Judson with 3500-5000 kids, Madison with 3000 plus and Reagan with nearly 3500. It is easier for the 4A schools to win, like McCallum and LBJ, but match them up vs Bowie or Austin and they get SLAUGHTERED because they don't have athletics periods and the kids just practice after school and can't grow and develop as a team in a good strength and conditioning program. Gideon, Hill (SV) and the Round Rock coaches are pretty good! Lake Travis just hired great coach, who is maybe better than what they lost.

Size makes a difference. Just ask Smithson Valley or better yet SLC. BTW, this year Judson had 3050 when the Rockets beat district champion Bowie--again as usual.

LoneRocket
06-20-2008, 12:52 AM
What can be done beyond what AD Cox and crew are doing to aid Bowie and Austin at becoming as good as they can get w/o being called Reagan or LBJ? How can they start winning playoff games and making semis and state title games in the top sport of FOOTBALL!

Tell us your about background, did you play for an AISD school? If so which one and when?

bowiedawgs01
06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
I believe he played for Reagan in the mid 1980s.

LeanderLions3033
06-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Yeah, Coach Vincent is a great coach.

After reading what I typed, I did not mean to disrespect the OC at Austin High. I just thought it odd that the OC gets credit, and not the Head Coach. Danny Faust has done a great job there. He does deserve credit. Great guy!

Haha, its funny you mention his name. Coach Faust was Leanders rb's coach my sophomore year and was by far my favorite coach and a vast majority of the team would agree with me. I forgot that he was at Austin High however, but thats great to hear that he is making a name for himself. Danny Faust was a former coach at Leander right (because the coach i'm talking moved to an AISD school but i wasnt sure of which one).

WestlakeTech
06-22-2008, 02:17 PM
[QUOTE=bowiedawgs01;806261]Bowie has great turnout and great parent involvement in everything, not just sports. We filled the visitor's side of Westlake last year before there were 20 ppl on the home side. I was in line more than 2 hours before the game. We filled up our side of Burger for the Austin High game, as well as most of our side for the Judson game. The support is there.
[QUOTE]

Yeah, that's one thing I hate about Westlake. We're always being outfanned. That's at least one thing you AISD schools do right. I was embarrased when we played you guys and Austin and only half of that was because of the play on the field; you guys all dress in school colors, you scream, shout, get energetic, it's exactly what football should be. At Westlake, I don't think half of the people in the Students Section wear red and a large portion of them are only there to socialize. So keep the fans involved.


I agree with... well, I'm not sure who said it. But I also think it would help AISD to lose a school or two. The talent is there. The players are great size and quite skilled. They're just spread too far out.

bowiedawgs01
06-22-2008, 04:08 PM
We all wore black vs. Westlake because they made an effort to get the word out. It was on school announcements, the schools news, the school website, etc. They wanted to black-out the stands. We did a pretty good job of it that night.

Westlake fans did show up and pretty much fill their side. It was just a later arriving crowd. I get to Westlake games early because of parking. I showed up late a couple times and had to hike to the game.

What's the problem with losing a couple of schools to help the sports? The schools we need to lose aren't exactly filled with top athletes. Johnston? No thanks.

And guess what? I've heard rumblings of another HS being built in Bowie's side of town. That's going to suck if it happens. Talk about splitting one of the few schools that at least has some success in sports. :mad:

CCParent
06-22-2008, 04:37 PM
[quote=bowiedawgs01;8077

What's the problem with losing a couple of schools to help the sports? The schools we need to lose aren't exactly filled with top athletes. Johnston? No thanks.


Johnston should be 3A to begin with and now the "no-name" school with even less numbers should close down along with r2d2 school being on the chopping block "Reagan" should close also.

bowiedawgs01
06-22-2008, 05:15 PM
Johnston is a sad story. But I don't really want any of their athletes on Bowie's team. I agree, they should have been a 3A.

I hope Reagan doesn't get shut down. Too much history.

WestlakeTech
06-22-2008, 08:15 PM
We all wore black vs. Westlake because they made an effort to get the word out. It was on school announcements, the schools news, the school website, etc. They wanted to black-out the stands. We did a pretty good job of it that night.

Westlake fans did show up and pretty much fill their side. It was just a later arriving crowd. I get to Westlake games early because of parking. I showed up late a couple times and had to hike to the game.

What's the problem with losing a couple of schools to help the sports? The schools we need to lose aren't exactly filled with top athletes. Johnston? No thanks.

And guess what? I've heard rumblings of another HS being built in Bowie's side of town. That's going to suck if it happens. Talk about splitting one of the few schools that at least has some success in sports. :mad:

See, that's another advantage you guys have and my (potentially traitorous) advice would be TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT! What advantage? Well, it's complicated. Let me explain.

See, at Westlake it's like this...
I'm a Senior this year. My sophomore year, we got a new Principal from Clear Lake HS in Houston; Ms. Rawlings. Since she came to power, the administration has gotten more strict. Nobody in the entire student body likes her and most show her disrespect. Yet for some reason, she feels compelled to be the one to make all the announcements about showing school spirit and stuff. Since most people hate her, they ignore every word she says.
So the fact that you guys can all come together like that and decide to black-out a rivalry game is pretty cool. I think the only way we'll be able to do anything like that is against Austin High when we sell our Beat Austin High shirts. I'm just praying that Rawlings doesn't encourage the sale of shirts. I have a ton of pride in Westlake and I wanna see everybody else with as much pride as I have. (Also like to see everybody attend the games sober, but we'll just take it one step at a time...)

A school near you guys? I mean, I know Bowie is the most populated school in the district w/about 500 more students than Westlake, but I didn't think the high pop was causing any problems. Might get bumped down to 4A. Much as I was ticked when you won last season, I still want you guys to remain in 5A.

CCParent
06-22-2008, 08:25 PM
Johnston is a sad story. But I don't really want any of their athletes on Bowie's team. I agree, they should have been a 3A.

I hope Reagan doesn't get shut down. Too much history.
They've talked about making a training campus or a storage site for the district for a few years now, with numbers I think down in the 800's now and low test scores I'm afraid the time is near. Nobody in that area now cares, they all have moved out of that area.:eek:

bowiedawgs01
06-22-2008, 08:25 PM
Bowie is over capacity, but nothing is in portable buildings. They did just have a ton of apartments go in across the street. They'll get an influx of kids from there, but I wouldn't think so many that it would be that bad.

I've heard the new HS would be at the end of Mopac somewhere.

bowiedawgs01
06-22-2008, 08:28 PM
They've talked about making a training campus or a storage site for the district for a few years now, with numbers I think down in the 800's now and low test scores I'm afraid the time is near. Nobody in that area now cares, they all have moved out of that area.:eek:

Johnston already got closed. They will be reopening as a different school. Kids from all over AISD can choose to attend and be bussed in.

CCParent
06-22-2008, 08:51 PM
Johnston already got closed. They will be reopening as a different school. Kids from all over AISD can choose to attend and be bussed in.
Just think about that and then make a wise decision " Would you go to the new school"?

WestlakeTech
06-22-2008, 08:58 PM
Personally, if I was AISD, I wouldn't. But the students don't always have the final say. Some parents may say to themselves "Hey, it's closer and more convenient. You're going to New High School." Plus, I can see why the district is making that offer. As best I know, all AISD schools are either 4 or 5A and they'll want to keep it that way and get as many students as they can into the new school.

Loyal Forever
06-22-2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah, Coach Vincent is a great coach.

After reading what I typed, I did not mean to disrespect the OC at Austin High. I just thought it odd that the OC gets credit, and not the Head Coach. Danny Faust has done a great job there. He does deserve credit. Great guy!

Faust is a great guy, but he has not been the OC there for a while. They made a change two years ago.

And he just left Austin to go to RR Westwood.

Loyal Forever
06-23-2008, 03:45 PM
You are kidding, right?

All the credit goes to the head coach at Austin High, Rodney Vincent. He's built that program. He'd be the first to give credit to his assistants, but he's the one that has built the program there, despite the obstacles from AISD.

And you are right, Coach Vincent deserves a ton of credit for what he has done. The last two years, Austin High has turned into a consistant winner, despite the AISD crap. It is only a matter of time (hopefully this next year) :) before Austin breaks through this 'playoff win barrier' and then look out.

You are also right about the feeder systems. It is definitely an advantage to be able to teach your offense, defense, terminology, etc. starting at 7th grade, rather than 9th grade.

As far as the the pay goes (for coaches), you would think that at some point AISD would wake up and realize that you have to pay for quality.

At least we hope so that we don't lose Coach Vincent and his staff.

blank
06-23-2008, 06:44 PM
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