Plano & SLC (Wasson v. Dodge) Debate From "Guide" Thread

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

..and this is the big difference. The jury is still out on this one. I think the Dragons are ranked way too high at #5. With Dodge as coach, it would be a good call, with Wasson as coach there is a huge question mark. I hope to be proved wrong


SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.

[slcdragonfan]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.

All I want to say is, if you can't spell DraGon by now, you don't know what you're talking about.;)

[toonman]

....The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs...

This event was preceded by the injury Riley Dodge, which ultimately cost the Dragons the game. Up to the injury, the Dragons were cruising to another easy win. But I would agree that putting a backup QB under center, when this is not the normal snap procedure, is bad decision making by Coach Wasson.

[SLC93]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.


Talk about the glass being half empty and shattered! Whatever will a Dragon alum do? Look, we all know how improbable and magical that 5 year window was. We also all agree that Wasson probably isn't ever going to be Dodge. An 11-2 debut season with virtually a completely new staff, coupled with the expectation & injuries that team dealt with? I'd say he earned his check. Were there some issues, areas the staff must improve on? No doubt. Thing is that new staff stepped into the biggest pressure cooker and dealt with more injuries and off the field issues in 9 months than TD did in his 7 years. They lost to the eventual national champion, a squad that will have put more than 20 of it's athletes on a college roster when you include all it's members. They caught a two bad breaks against a top 5 team in the Texas state playoffs, losing their qb & that fumble. They can't all go our way. This isn't Pleasantville, precolor. Our cupboards are overflowing with talent. Our program's history says that we'll remain elite. I've said it before but it bears repeating. In our "darkest" time, the 4A years, we still won over 60% of our games, won district titles, won region titles & came within a miralce of a state appearance. That was when we were "off" our game. I have a feeling the next 2-3 seasons are gonna just baffle some of y'all.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

This event was preceded by the injury Riley Dodge, which ultimately cost the Dragons the game. Up to the injury, the Dragons were cruising to another easy win. But I would agree that putting a backup QB under center, when this is not the normal snap procedure, is bad decision making by Coach Wasson.


All the breaks and bounces that went SLC's way over the previous 5 years finally didn't happen against Abilene. Crusing or not, Dodge did get hurt he got hurt because maybe someone blown an assignment on the oline or the routes weren't ran the right way and caused a delay in Dodges throw.

All I am saying is SLC is still a very good team but they aren't about to go 4 years straight in title game appearances. They will come down to earth a little bit.

[tjw]

SLC has lost some its luster...with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.

So lets get this straight, you're saying now that Bence moved up in Plano's hiearchy things will get better????

A new coach from within the system is somehow going to improve things?????

And you see similarity in SLC?:confused:

Didn't they promote Wasson (nothing against him, good offense coordinator not head coach) from within?:confused: Did they get better?:confused:

Only thing I saw last year with Plano is one person carrying a team with enough halfway decent teammates versus 06 not enough decent teammates and that took them only so far.

Guess we'll see what this year holds:rolleyes:

[slcdragonfan]

FAIL!

Pointing out a typo is a pretty lame way to debate.

First of all, I am not debating I am commenting. There is a difference. Second, I was having a bit of fun, and I did have a deeper point in that if someone is going to talk as if they have knowledge about our program and what we are going to do, maybe they should get the name right. After all, it has been on the cover of this site for several years, and I think most folks know how to spell it by now if they have been paying attention to HS football. But the wink was to indicate it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. I know PWC follows HS football, I was elbowing him in the ribs a bit.

So, RedRage, take it a bit easy. Next time I get into a debate, feel free to point out my fallacies. But spell Dragon right.:)

[slcdragonfan]

So lets get this straight, you're saying now that Bence moved up in Plano's hiearchy things will get better????

A new coach from within the system is somehow going to improve things?????

And you see similarity in SLC?:confused:

Didn't they promote Wasson (nothing against him, good offense coordinator not head coach) from within?:confused: Did they get better?:confused:

Only thing I saw last year with Plano is one person carrying a team with enough halfway decent teammates versus 06 not enough decent teammates and that took them only so far.

Guess we'll see what this year holds:rolleyes:

Technically, Wasson was not an internal promotion, he came from another school. However, he had coached at SLC before and his son was a starting QB here. But perhaps RedRage can point out the error in my 'argument' because if I am typing it must be a debate.:p

[78 Spartan]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.

Regression towards the mean is statistical gravity. No one can defy it indefinitely.

Doesn't mean that Carroll won't continue to be a premier program -- it will. It just won't enjoy the same kind of dominance that we've seen over the past several years.

[RedRage00]

First of all, I am not debating I am commenting. There is a difference. Second, I was having a bit of fun, and I did have a deeper point in that if someone is going to talk as if they have knowledge about our program and what we are going to do, maybe they should get the name right. After all, it has been on the cover of this site for several years, and I think most folks know how to spell it by now if they have been paying attention to HS football. But the wink was to indicate it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. I know PWC follows HS football, I was elbowing him in the ribs a bit.

So, RedRage, take it a bit easy. Next time I get into a debate, feel free to point out my fallacies. But spell Dragon right.:)

Umm, yeah...I was joking too. lol

But thanks for the long response.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

So lets get this straight, you're saying now that Bence moved up in Plano's hiearchy things will get better????

A new coach from within the system is somehow going to improve things?????

And you see similarity in SLC?:confused:

Didn't they promote Wasson (nothing against him, good offense coordinator not head coach) from within?:confused: Did they get better?:confused:

Only thing I saw last year with Plano is one person carrying a team with enough halfway decent teammates versus 06 not enough decent teammates and that took them only so far.

Guess we'll see what this year holds:rolleyes:

Your ignorance is amazing. Not sure how your AD works in Allen. But Plano's AD doesn't meddle in the day to day running of individual sports programs. So that right their will right the Plano Football program right away. Jaydon McCullough is the anti-Brence. He is positive to his negative. He grew up in Plano, played at Plano under Kimbrough, and has coached in Plano for over 12 years if I'm not mistaken. He is the ideal coach for this job and will raise the level of play and performance regardless of the average or should I say decent players that Plano has. Coach McCullough was also instrumental in getting the offense changed from Brences toss sweeps to the open passing game that you say last year.

Not sure what Plano games you watched but that was far from a 1 player team. I don't care how good one player is he can't buy himself make a team good. If that was the case then Allen would of won state with Buckner leading the way but we all know what happens when you have the kind of defense allen always puts on the field.:D

The similarity to SLC is when legendary coach leaves (Dodge, Kimbrough) and is replaced with a lesser coach (Wasson, Brence).

Obviously you just moved to Allen your history of Allen & Plano football dates as far back as the current decade. You'll see how things turn out over the next 5 years. Plano will be back where they once were and that 8 state title will be very close.

[tjw]

Your ignorance is amazing. Not sure how your AD works in Allen. But Plano's AD doesn't meddle in the day to day running of individual sports programs. So that right their will right the Plano Football program right away. Jaydon McCullough is the anti-Brence. He is positive to his negative. He grew up in Plano, played at Plano under Kimbrough, and has coached in Plano for over 12 years if I'm not mistaken. He is the ideal coach for this job and will raise the level of play and performance regardless of the average or should I say decent players that Plano has. Coach McCullough was also instrumental in getting the offense changed from Brences toss sweeps to the open passing game that you say last year.

Not sure what Plano games you watched but that was far from a 1 player team. I don't care how good one player is he can't buy himself make a team good. If that was the case then Allen would of won state with Buckner leading the way but we all know what happens when you have the kind of defense allen always puts on the field.:D

The similarity to SLC is when legendary coach leaves (Dodge, Kimbrough) and is replaced with a lesser coach (Wasson, Brence).

Obviously you just moved to Allen your history of Allen & Plano football dates as far back as the current decade. You'll see how things turn out over the next 5 years. Plano will be back where they once were and that 8 state title will be very close.

You may want to reconsider saying my ignorance as you misspelled half of this? FYI, it is "there" instead "So that right their will right" and "by" instead of "can't buy himself". Please learn to spell and check your grammar before calling names. Which I actually thought was not allowed on this site?:confused:

As for Allen history you are as incorrect as your spelling considering Allen had less then 3500 when I first came to know it. There is a school in Allen named after my wife's uncle and one in Plano after her cousin. So family history in this area goes back farther then you thought.

As for your other points - I thought Plano did pretty good last year after missing the playoffs the year before? So how is this going to "right the football right away"? Not make the playoffs, this is funny.

Pretty amazing how the “defense allen always puts on the field” they still beat Plano last year and the year before.:D

You might check Cedar Hill in 2006 about what one guy can do, recall they won state with outstanding athlete.:D

Plano might do alright this year but think I will still be waiting to see “back where they once were” anytime soon.

BTW, didn’t I see you live in Frisco? Where rumor has it the school board keeps building schools to not have to be in the same district as Allen and Plano schools?

[slcdragonfan]

Umm, yeah...I was joking too. lol

But thanks for the long response.

in that case,....nevermind.:) But looks like we or I somehow got a spelling check thing going. Takes me back to those great Klign/Klinb/Klein/Klien spelling debates of yesteryear.
p-o-t-a-t-o-e? Can you say, Dan Quayle?

To address the topic, I don't believe Wasson is 'lesser' at this point in time. I personally would choose the word 'unproven'.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

You may want to reconsider saying my ignorance as you misspelled half of this? FYI, it is "there" instead "So that right their will right" and "by" instead of "can't buy himself". Please learn to spell and check your grammar before calling names. Which I actually thought was not allowed on this site?:confused:

As for Allen history you are as incorrect as your spelling considering Allen had less then 3500 when I first came to know it. There is a school in Allen named after my wife's uncle and one in Plano after her cousin. So family history in this area goes back farther then you thought.

As for your other points - I thought Plano did pretty good last year after missing the playoffs the year before? So how is this going to "right the football right away"? Not make the playoffs, this is funny.

Pretty amazing how the “defense allen always puts on the field” they still beat Plano last year and the year before.:D

You might check Cedar Hill in 2006 about what one guy can do, recall they won state with outstanding athlete.:D

Plano might do alright this year but think I will still be waiting to see “back where they once were” anytime soon.

BTW, didn’t I see you live in Frisco? Where rumor has it the school board keeps building schools to not have to be in the same district as Allen and Plano schools?

Plano's "pretty good season" as you put far out distanced the annual Allen flop in the playoffs. I didn't know that marrying into a family that had schools named after them made you an expert on Plano football and their current and former coaches.

Plano football as I stated before is about to awake from their slumber with Jaydon as HC and having the Toxic Brence away from the program.

Plano with all their average athletes will be the top program not only in DFW but in the state in the coming years, I have no doubt about that. I also have no doubt that Allen no matter how hard they try will continue to play be in the shadow of the Wildcats. You can bring up the occassional win here and their but you know and I know Allen football can't measure up to Plano's history.

[bowiedawgs01]

Calling someone ignorant on a topic is not namecalling. Look up the word.

[tjw]

Plano's "pretty good season" as you put far out distanced the annual Allen flop in the playoffs. I didn't know that marrying into a family that had schools named after them made you an expert on Plano football and their current and former coaches.

Plano football as I stated before is about to awake from their slumber with Jaydon as HC and having the Toxic Brence away from the program.

Plano with all their average athletes will be the top program not only in DFW but in the state in the coming years, I have no doubt about that. I also have no doubt that Allen no matter how hard they try will continue to play be in the shadow of the Wildcats. You can bring up the occassional win here and their but you know and I know Allen football can't measure up to Plano's history.

Whatever you want to think in your dream world.:cool:

Guess you have to hold on to Plano's history...lets see its been how many years? Last year was the furthest Plano has gotten lately and Allen twice did that in '03 & '06 this decade. No kid in Plano, even the seniors, were in kindergarten when Plano last won a title?

Allen does not play in anyones shadow...it's not the occasional win here and there, hmmm 10-0 in district last year, 9-1 the year before...Allen has beaten Plano 5 of the last 7 years if not more...been the district champs more then Plano has since coming to 5A...only thing Plano can say is what they did in the 80's and early 90's...hmm Allen was 3A & 4A then?

Dude I know through your rose colored glasses things look good right now, especially after going 0-10 just 3 years ago...but think you need to stop putting others down. Just remember what goes around comes around.

[bowiedawgs01]

There must be a shortage on question marks and you're just trying to use them all up while you still can.

[tjw]

There must be a shortage on question marks and you're just trying to use them all up while you still can.

Yeppers, thought I better before they are all gone :p

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Whatever you want to think in your dream world.:cool:

Guess you have to hold on to Plano's history...lets see its been how many years? Last year was the furthest Plano has gotten lately and Allen twice did that in '03 & '06 this decade. No kid in Plano, even the seniors, were in kindergarten when Plano last won a title?

Allen does not play in anyones shadow...it's not the occasional win here and there, hmmm 10-0 in district last year, 9-1 the year before...Allen has beaten Plano 5 of the last 7 years if not more...been the district champs more then Plano has since coming to 5A...only thing Plano can say is what they did in the 80's and early 90's...hmm Allen was 3A & 4A then?

Dude I know through your rose colored glasses things look good right now, especially after going 0-10 just 3 years ago...but think you need to stop putting others down. Just remember what goes around comes around.


Practice what you preach. You degraded Plano's season with your cute comments about pretty decent season but only because of 1 player. That is slap in the face of everyone of those kids that busted their *** for 15 games and came with-in 3 yards of a state title. To just off the cuff dismiss their success and hard work pretty much reflects the statement I highlighted above.

Then you expose your great knowledge of Plano's coaching staff and how in the world if Brence leaving would improve the program. So I think you started this pissing contest.

By the way the every kid who ever went to Allen highschool for last 100 years was never part of football state title so I think you need to hold back the kids in kindergarten comment and look at Allen first.

Finally, You know you can't discount Plano's rich history and the success they have had. Those kids in the lockerroom today see it every day walking by the trophy case that displays the 1 national championship trophy, 7 state title trophies, 12 region championship tropies and 35 or so district champs trophies. Its talked about, its coached and preached about living up to the tradition and mystique. Along with a HC that lived, breathed and knows Plano football as a player, coach, coordinator and now HC. Plano's future is very rose colored. You will see.

[tjw]

You degraded Plano's season with your cute comments about pretty decent Nothing degrading about saying someone had a good season???

Then you expose your great knowledge of Plano's coaching staff and how in the world if Brence leaving would improve the program. You're the only one that said they had any knowledge about that????

So I think you started this pissing contest. You need to reread your entries to see you did

[/QUOTE]

History is nothing more than past regrets, try not to let it color your judgement or rule your life. Guess you can't do that as you don't even know you started pissing first.

Time to start supporting your current team:D

[Fleeman93]

Whatever you want to think in your dream world.:cool:

Guess you have to hold on to Plano's history...lets see its been how many years? Last year was the furthest Plano has gotten lately and Allen twice did that in '03 & '06 this decade. No kid in Plano, even the seniors, were in kindergarten when Plano last won a title?

Allen does not play in anyones shadow...it's not the occasional win here and there, hmmm 10-0 in district last year, 9-1 the year before...Allen has beaten Plano 5 of the last 7 years if not more...been the district champs more then Plano has since coming to 5A...only thing Plano can say is what they did in the 80's and early 90's...hmm Allen was 3A & 4A then?

Dude I know through your rose colored glasses things look good right now, especially after going 0-10 just 3 years ago...but think you need to stop putting others down. Just remember what goes around comes around.


Practice what you preach. You degraded Plano's season with your cute comments about pretty decent season but only because of 1 player. That is slap in the face of everyone of those kids that busted their *** for 15 games and came with-in 3 yards of a state title. To just off the cuff dismiss their success and hard work pretty much reflects the statement I highlighted above.

Then you expose your great knowledge of Plano's coaching staff and how in the world if Brence leaving would improve the program. So I think you started this pissing contest.

By the way the every kid who ever went to Allen highschool for last 100 years was never part of football state title so I think you need to hold back the kids in kindergarten comment and look at Allen first.

Finally, You know you can't discount Plano's rich history and the success they have had. Those kids in the lockerroom today see it every day walking by the trophy case that displays the 1 national championship trophy, 7 state title trophies, 12 region championship tropies and 35 or so district champs trophies. Its talked about, its coached and preached about living up to the tradition and mystique. Along with a HC that lived, breathed and knows Plano football as a player, coach, coordinator and now HC. Plano's future is very rose colored. You will see.


Plano played for a state title last year?

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

You degraded Plano's season with your cute comments about pretty decent Nothing degrading about saying someone had a good season???

Then you expose your great knowledge of Plano's coaching staff and how in the world if Brence leaving would improve the program. You're the only one that said they had any knowledge about that????

So I think you started this pissing contest. You need to reread your entries to see you did



History is nothing more than past regrets, try not to let it color your judgement or rule your life. Guess you can't do that as you don't even know you started pissing first.

Time to start supporting your current team:D[/quote]

I see you edited your response greatly to my last comments. Picking and choosing what to respond and avoiding what you can't defend. I thoughtwith your great vocabulary and spelling knowledge you should of easily respond back to my entire blog.

Your comment was "pretty good season" with 1 good player leading the way. A pretty good season is what Allen had, 10-1 and a giant flame out in the playoffs. Plano had a great season going 13-2 after going 4-6 the year before with bascially the same players. So your of the cuff dis comment about last season shows your true envy you harbor for the Wildcats.

Trust me my support of Plano is encompasses past, present and future. In fact I even purchase 2nd floor south view condo at Clark to watch my Cat's in style.;).

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Plano played for a state title last year?

3 yards short from the goalline when we settled for the field goal on 4th down at the end of hte 4th quarter against TT. I feel we should of went for it but Coach decided to play it safe.

Next week was a foregone conclusion with Plano winning:D had we gotten by Trinity.

[Southlake Carroll Dragons]

I dont think Wasson is a "lesser coach" at all. I think he will prove himself to everyone this upcoming season and will be just as good as todd dodge if not better. Ledbetter started the program in the right direction and Todd Dodge picked and made it even better than anyone ever believed. The only direction to go on now here with the program in southlake is being better than the past 5 years.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

I dont think Wasson is a "lesser coach" at all. I think he will prove himself to everyone this upcoming season and will be just as good as todd dodge if not better. Ledbetter started the program in the right direction and Todd Dodge picked and made it even better than anyone ever believed. The only direction to go on now here with the program in southlake is being better than the past 5 years.

Wasson isn't nearly the coach that Dodge is. If so he would of won a few titles along the way. To think that SL can build on the last 5 years and be better is impossible. They would have to win 5 straight titles and that isn't going to happen. SLC supporters need to realize the days of winning 4 titles in 5 years is not going to happen again. You might expect it's entitled or is a given buts it not. I remember Sealy won 4 in a row in the mid-ninties and haven't won since. Those fans felt the same way back then as well.

[SLCFan]

Wasson isn't nearly the coach that Dodge is. If so he would of won a few titles along the way. To think that SL can build on the last 5 years and be better is impossible. They would have to win 5 straight titles and that isn't going to happen. SLC supporters need to realize the days of winning 4 titles in 5 years is not going to happen again. You might expect it's entitled or is a given buts it not. I remember Sealy won 4 in a row in the mid-ninties and haven't won since. Those fans felt the same way back then as well.

Wasson will hold his own and has had a similar career to Dodge prior to Todd taking over the Dragons. Can't remember the long list of State Titles Dodge had prior to coming to Southlake. With all due respect Wasson took over a team that was 100% Todd's team I'm sure he was met with some resitance from the kids. It's hard to imagine that there were not players saying "coach Dodge did it this way"... I know adults who have trouble with that, so it's not a far stretch to think it could have been an issue. This season will be Wasson's chance to make this his team, let's give him a chance to do that and see where we end up. I'm pretty sure Todd's first season wasn't anything special, I even remeber an interview with Todd where he was talking about "if he didn't start winning soon the town was gonna run him off..." It's probably unfair to judge Wasson at this point... he's a good coach. I'd be curious to see what Wasson's record was prior to taking over the Dragons compared to what Dodge's was. Quite honestly Wasson didn't put himself in an enviable position. Not many people would want to be in his shoes.

[slcdragonfan]

Wasson isn't nearly the coach that Dodge is. If so he would of won a few titles along the way. To think that SL can build on the last 5 years and be better is impossible. They would have to win 5 straight titles and that isn't going to happen. SLC supporters need to realize the days of winning 4 titles in 5 years is not going to happen again. You might expect it's entitled or is a given buts it not. I remember Sealy won 4 in a row in the mid-ninties and haven't won since. Those fans felt the same way back then as well.

Dodge was a great coach. The jury is out on Wasson, there is just not enough history yet to know what he can do. Currently I would say he is a good coach. He had a lot of adversity last year. I personally think he did very well considering the injuries and coaching changes that occurred.

It would be very difficult to replicate the past 5 years. But we sure as hell are going to try and do it.:)

No one I know believes SLC is entitled to anything or that it is a given that we will be champions. It is the players job to go out and take it, not expect it. But don't tell us what is or isn't going to happen again. You mention Sealy. I'll mention Celina. Anything is possible.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Dodge was a great coach. The jury is out on Wasson, there is just not enough history yet to know what he can do. Currently I would say he is a good coach. He had a lot of adversity last year. I personally think he did very well considering the injuries and coaching changes that occurred.

It would be very difficult to replicate the past 5 years. But we sure as hell are going to try and do it.:)

No one I know believes SLC is entitled to anything or that it is a given that we will be champions. It is the players job to go out and take it, not expect it. But don't tell us what is or isn't going to happen again. You mention Sealy. I'll mention Celina. Anything is possible.

SLC will continue to be a very good program no doubt but to expect the same success that Dodge did during that 5 year period is a every bit unrealistic. It won't happen. The football in 5A is to good and to many things have to fall in place to win a title. year in and year out. SLC saw that last year.

[cougmantx]

Wasson isn't nearly the coach that Dodge is. If so he would of won a few titles along the way. To think that SL can build on the last 5 years and be better is impossible. They would have to win 5 straight titles and that isn't going to happen. SLC supporters need to realize the days of winning 4 titles in 5 years is not going to happen again. You might expect it's entitled or is a given buts it not. I remember Sealy won 4 in a row in the mid-ninties and haven't won since. Those fans felt the same way back then as well.


Dang, let Plano have a little success and get ranked well for a year and they sure get uppity...don't they!

[drgnbkr]

SLC will continue to be a very good program no doubt but to expect the same success that Dodge did during that 5 year period is a every bit unrealistic. It won't happen. The football in 5A is to good and to many things have to fall in place to win a title. year in and year out. SLC saw that last year.

Carroll has been the winningest program in Texas for over 20 years. Coach Dodge was one of the best coaches in Texas, but Carroll won 3 titles before he got here and nothing is really changed since he moved on. The Dragons have one of the best groups they've ever had moving up and one of the best coaches in the state...

[SLC93]

Wasson will hold his own and has had a similar career to Dodge prior to Todd taking over the Dragons. Can't remember the long list of State Titles Dodge had prior to coming to Southlake. With all due respect Wasson took over a team that was 100% Todd's team I'm sure he was met with some resitance from the kids. It's hard to imagine that there were not players saying "coach Dodge did it this way"... I know adults who have trouble with that, so it's not a far stretch to think it could have been an issue. This season will be Wasson's chance to make this his team, let's give him a chance to do that and see where we end up. I'm pretty sure Todd's first season wasn't anything special, I even remeber an interview with Todd where he was talking about "if he didn't start winning soon the town was gonna run him off..." It's probably unfair to judge Wasson at this point... he's a good coach. I'd be curious to see what Wasson's record was prior to taking over the Dragons compared to what Dodge's was. Quite honestly Wasson didn't put himself in an enviable position. Not many people would want to be in his shoes.


Hal Wasson compiled a record of 122-83-2 over 19 seasons before debuting with a 11-2 record at Carroll last season. Todd Dodge compiled a record of 24-35 before debuting with a 9-5 record for Carroll. Wasson was the best candidate for the job out of the pool we had for selection. I've stated before that I thought the search committee did itself no favors with Wasson perceived as a shoo-in. That kept some from applying. I wish we could have really interviewed Erwin before he took the Marcus job. All that said, I believe in Wasson and the staff he assembled. I think they showed alot more than folks give them credit for last season. Bottomline is he did aply for this job knowing full well what it entailed. That alone speaks volumes.

[SLC93]

Wasson isn't nearly the coach that Dodge is. If so he would of won a few titles along the way. To think that SL can build on the last 5 years and be better is impossible. They would have to win 5 straight titles and that isn't going to happen. SLC supporters need to realize the days of winning 4 titles in 5 years is not going to happen again. You might expect it's entitled or is a given buts it not. I remember Sealy won 4 in a row in the mid-ninties and haven't won since. Those fans felt the same way back then as well.

Not really disagreeing here but why hadn't Dodge nailed down a few before coming to Carroll?

[SLC93]

SLC will continue to be a very good program no doubt but to expect the same success that Dodge did during that 5 year period is a every bit unrealistic. It won't happen. The football in 5A is to good and to many things have to fall in place to win a title. year in and year out. SLC saw that last year.

Again, while I do not disagree with you, these are all things that were said before , during and after our recent run. The likelihood is low but to say it can't happen has been disproven.

[bleedsgreen]

You heard it here, 08 and 09's defense will be remembered for along time.

[TheBigPeach]

Or maybe, The Dragons under Wasson will match up against Plano again just like a few years ago, and go on to State? Class of 2010 is deadly, just a fair warning.

[dragonsdaddy]

You may want to reconsider saying my ignorance as you misspelled half of this? FYI, it is "there" instead "So that right their will right" and "by" instead of "can't buy himself". Please learn to spell and check your grammar before calling names. Which I actually thought was not allowed on this site?:confused:

As for Allen history you are as incorrect as your spelling considering Allen had less then 3500 when I first came to know it. There is a school in Allen named after my wife's uncle and one in Plano after her cousin. So family history in this area goes back farther then you thought.

As for your other points - I thought Plano did pretty good last year after missing the playoffs the year before? So how is this going to "right the football right away"? Not make the playoffs, this is funny.

Pretty amazing how the “defense allen always puts on the field” they still beat Plano last year and the year before.:D

You might check Cedar Hill in 2006 about what one guy can do, recall they won state with outstanding athlete.:D

Plano might do alright this year but think I will still be waiting to see “back where they once were” anytime soon.

BTW, didn’t I see you live in Frisco? Where rumor has it the school board keeps building schools to not have to be in the same district as Allen and Plano schools?

i have read and reread pwf's post, and i guess i'm too ignorant to recognize his name-calling.

[SLCFan]

Hal Wasson compiled a record of 122-83-2 over 19 seasons before debuting with a 11-2 record at Carroll last season. Todd Dodge compiled a record of 24-35 before debuting with a 9-5 record for Carroll. Wasson was the best candidate for the job out of the pool we had for selection. I've stated before that I thought the search committee did itself no favors with Wasson perceived as a shoo-in. That kept some from applying. I wish we could have really interviewed Erwin before he took the Marcus job. All that said, I believe in Wasson and the staff he assembled. I think they showed alot more than folks give them credit for last season. Bottomline is he did aply for this job knowing full well what it entailed. That alone speaks volumes.


Thanks for the info...

[BAMF cowboy]

All the breaks and bounces that went SLC's way over the previous 5 years finally didn't happen against Abilene. Crusing or not, Dodge did get hurt he got hurt because maybe someone blown an assignment on the oline or the routes weren't ran the right way and caused a delay in Dodges throw.

All I am saying is SLC is still a very good team but they aren't about to go 4 years straight in title game appearances. They will come down to earth a little bit.

This isn't exactly a bold prediction. Even with the departure of Dodge, what Carroll did during that 5 year run was the unparalled pinnacle of texas high school football success. The odds that this trend would be continued are unlikely. Southlake will be down, but they will be back (the good programs always are). Maybe not to the extent of the Dodge era, but they won't disappear.

[SLC13]

Hal Wasson compiled a record of 122-83-2 over 19 seasons before debuting with a 11-2 record at Carroll last season. Todd Dodge compiled a record of 24-35 before debuting with a 9-5 record for Carroll. Wasson was the best candidate for the job out of the pool we had for selection. I've stated before that I thought the search committee did itself no favors with Wasson perceived as a shoo-in. That kept some from applying. I wish we could have really interviewed Erwin before he took the Marcus job. All that said, I believe in Wasson and the staff he assembled. I think they showed alot more than folks give them credit for last season. Bottomline is he did aply for this job knowing full well what it entailed. That alone speaks volumes.
Wow, I didn't realize he had been a HC that long......Where else has Wasson been a head coach besides Fossil Ridge??

[dragonsdaddy]

Wow, I didn't realize he had been a HC that long......Where else has Wasson been a head coach besides Fossil Ridge??
he came to slc from chappell hill i believe.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

This isn't exactly a bold prediction. Even with the departure of Dodge, what Carroll did during that 5 year run was the unparalled pinnacle of texas high school football success. The odds that this trend would be continued are unlikely. Southlake will be down, but they will be back (the good programs always are). Maybe not to the extent of the Dodge era, but they won't disappear.


That's all I'm trying to say. Nothing more and nothing less. Can they duplicate Dodges last 5 years in the coming 5 years, I don't think so. It's just to hard to carry that type of program at that high a level for that long year after year. They will be very good they will challenge for state titles but not every year.

Ask Plano, Permian, Sealy, LaMarque, Midland Lee, Austin Reagan, Westlake, Sugar Land Willowridge, Dangerfield, and many other programs that dominated the state for 5, 10 15, 20 even 30 years. They all have ebbs and flows as will SLC.

[TXFOOSBALL]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.


So you believe in 2011 Southlake Carroll will have a losing season and for the following 10 years be a mediocre high school football team. I don't think SLC will fall as far as you think they will.

[grayowl60]

3 yards short from the goalline when we settled for the field goal on 4th down at the end of hte 4th quarter against TT. I feel we should of went for it but Coach decided to play it safe.

Next week was a foregone conclusion with Plano winning:D had we gotten by Trinity.
" I guess you have to hang your hat on something"

[DrEdward]

From 2002 to last season (the 5A years), Carroll has been blessed with an an amazing combination of receivers, running backs, and quarterbacks (without taking anything away from the defense or offensive line). A string of all-state receivers and QBs is a very nice thing to have around. Their span at Carroll matched well with the appearance of Todd Dodge as the head coach of the Dragons and the offensive scheme that Coach Dodge put in place. In other words, the athletes that Dodge had were very much as responsible for Carroll's success as was Dodge's coaching. The two complemented each other quite nicely.

Hal Wasson is a gentleman and a solid coach as indicated by the state championship rings he has to his credit and the way he conducts himself on and off the field. The question is can the success that Carroll has experienced thus far in 5A be repeated in the next five years as well? The reasonable answer is probably not, if the guage is undefeated state championship seasons year after year. However, that does not necessarily imply that Hal Wasson is coming up short as a coach. Carroll seems to have a good deal of talent around, but it is truly asking a lot to even come close to matching the first half decade in 5A by the Dragons. From what I have observed thus far, I expect the Dragons to continue to play at an elevated level and do quite well. Judging from Carroll's past (from 3A to 5A) and its present, there may well be another state championship in the not too distant future for the Dragons.

[TheBigPeach]

This is the most pointless thread ever. SLC will be fine, The team needs a while to get adjusted to a WHOLE new coaching staff. Just watch, they will Wow you.

Yea, they might not win 5 championships in a row, but nobody is expecting them to.

[bigdaddydog]

Dang, let Plano have a little success and get ranked well for a year and they sure get uppity...don't they!

HUMility is such a hard thing to teach and even harder for some to learn. I think maybe the air is a bit thin some times in that 2nd level Condo.

It is a shame that DI / DII will spoil a potential meeting of the Wildcats and the Dragons in the playoffs this year.

There is an old Chinese proverb about good fortune bad fortune that comes to mind, but alas my conference call awaits... :)


~

[dragonsdaddy]

From 2002 to last season (the 5A years), Carroll has been blessed with an an amazing combination of receivers, running backs, and quarterbacks (without taking anything away from the defense or offensive line). A string of all-state receivers and QBs is a very nice thing to have around. Their span at Carroll matched well with the appearance of Todd Dodge as the head coach of the Dragons and the offensive scheme that Coach Dodge put in place. In other words, the athletes that Dodge had were very much as responsible for Carroll's success as was Dodge's coaching. The two complemented each other quite nicely.

Hal Wasson is a gentleman and a solid coach as indicated by the state championship rings he has to his credit and the way he conducts himself on and off the field. The question is can the success that Carroll has experienced thus far in 5A be repeated in the next five years as well? The reasonable answer is probably not, if the guage is undefeated state championship seasons year after year. However, that does not necessarily imply that Hal Wasson is coming up short as a coach. Carroll seems to have a good deal of talent around, but it is truly asking a lot to even come close to matching the first half decade in 5A by the Dragons. From what I have observed thus far, I expect the Dragons to continue to play at an elevated level and do quite well. Judging from Carroll's past (from 3A to 5A) and its present, there may well be another state championship in the not too distant future for the Dragons.i think hal only wears the 1 from 02, as he left for fridge in 03-06. and it was liberty hill, vice c hill where he had previously coached. seems like he coached a while at corsicana too, though not as a hc i don't think.

[Maxthedog]

Gee whiz PWF, getting a new head coach really has you wound up sumtin fierce!
I'm betting Wasson has a ring before Jaydon.

[dragonsdaddy]

Gee whiz PWF, getting a new head coach really has you wound up sumtin fierce!
I'm betting Wasson has a ring before Jaydon.

my wishes could be fulfilled with a tie, in a short 6 months.

[Fleeman93]

When comparing Dodge and Wasson the big question is how the talent/players compare between FRidge and SLC. Anyone?

[BigRing5311]

PWF -
Your prediction that SLC will not be the team the next 5 years they were the previous 5 years is statistically highly probable, but you would never get me to buy it. It's not because of being unrealistic or so ridiculously biased that common sense is nonexistent. It's because of the mentality and attitude of SLC coaches and player. They don't see past accomplishments as impossibilities but rather as ascertainable achievements set forth by their predecessors. They believe they can win state championships every year accompanied by undefeated seasons. It's not an arrogant belief but rather a belief of capability stemming from preparation; mentally and physically.

Will it happen? Who knows, only time will tell. Is it wrong for them to believe they can accomplish what other teams before them did? Absolutely not. Is it offensive that you have an opinion that SLC has seen it's reign and will digress to eventual mediocrity? Absolutely not. Everyone has an opinion and yours is one that on the outside makes perfect sense.

Champions...all Champions defy the odds; and sometimes they do it time and time again.

On a side note - Coach Wasson is a very good coach. In my books he's a great coach. There are dynamics he and his staff dealt with last year that most coaches would have imploded. Hal Wasson is not Todd Dodge nor visa-versa and I would imagine most didn't believe Todd Dodge was the second coming of Bob Ledbetter after his inaugural year at SLC. As it ended up, Coach Dodge had a pretty good run...hopefully Coach Wasson will also.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Gee whiz PWF, getting a new head coach really has you wound up sumtin fierce!
I'm betting Wasson has a ring before Jaydon.


Yes, I am wound up sumtin fierce!! The Brence error (spelled correctly) is final over about 8 years to late but it's over.

I believe that the Plano program has finally on the right course with the right man at the right time to lead the program.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

PWF -
Your prediction that SLC will not be the team the next 5 years they were the previous 5 years is statistically highly probable, but you would never get me to buy it. It's not because of being unrealistic or so ridiculously biased that common sense is nonexistent. It's because of the mentality and attitude of SLC coaches and player. They don't see past accomplishments as impossibilities but rather as ascertainable achievements set forth by their predecessors. They believe they can win state championships every year accompanied by undefeated seasons. It's not an arrogant belief but rather a belief of capability stemming from preparation; mentally and physically.

Will it happen? Who knows, only time will tell. Is it wrong for them to believe they can accomplish what other teams before them did? Absolutely not. Is it offensive that you have an opinion that SLC has seen it's reign and will digress to eventual mediocrity? Absolutely not. Everyone has an opinion and yours is one that on the outside makes perfect sense.

Champions...all Champions defy the odds; and sometimes they do it time and time again.

On a side note - Coach Wasson is a very good coach. In my books he's a great coach. There are dynamics he and his staff dealt with last year that most coaches would have imploded. Hal Wasson is not Todd Dodge nor visa-versa and I would imagine most didn't believe Todd Dodge was the second coming of Bob Ledbetter after his inaugural year at SLC. As it ended up, Coach Dodge had a pretty good run...hopefully Coach Wasson will also.


Well said.

The first statement defined what every Plano player that went through the program from 65 to 95 felt and believed. I know I went through that and felt exactly how you said it. However, times change, coaches change and the former coach at Plano I IMO single handedly ran the program into the ground over the last 10 years. Not saying that Wasson will do that but IMO Dodge is a better coach.

Second, I never said SLC would become Mediocre or average please reread my statements. I said they couldn't maintain that unmatched run that they had in Dodge's final 5 years no team has in 60 years. That run was and will go done as the greatest stretch of any 5A team in history. I said they would continue to have a very good team that would compete for state titles but it's IMP unrealistic to see the start of a 48 game win streak starting this August. More power to you if you can but history says it wont' happen.

I have a all kinds of respect for SLC and of course as a die hard Plano a bit jealous of your unmatched success over the previous years and is now the face of Texas Football when that title belonged to Plano back in the day. That is why I am very excited about the changes Plano finally made in the program and many Wildcat fans feel that the program has been put on course for great things with the right leadership finally in place.

Best of luck to SLC this year. I would to see a all region 1 Divison 1 & 2 finals of

Trinity vs Plano & SLC & Allen. That would be a great double header at TS. I would even root for SLC. :D

[twcpfan1]

Is it that time of the month for the DFW fans? Everybody seems to be PMSing on this thread :D

[twcpfan1]

Regression towards the mean is statistical gravity. No one can defy it indefinitely.

Doesn't mean that Carroll won't continue to be a premier program -- it will. It just won't enjoy the same kind of dominance that we've seen over the past several years.

Holy Crap. We're getting fancy. Should have said it in Latin to get the full effect.

[slcdragonfan]

Trinity vs Plano & SLC & Allen. That would be a great double header at TS. I would even root for SLC. :D

I'd go for that!

[Trinity Trojan Fan For Li]

3 yards short from the goalline when we settled for the field goal on 4th down at the end of hte 4th quarter against TT. I feel we should of went for it but Coach decided to play it safe.

Next week was a foregone conclusion with Plano winning:D had we gotten by Trinity.
Are you trying to subtly slip in an insult against Trinity in your tirade of SC? TT isn't politically correct - ET is.

[TXFOOSBALL]

He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.

Maybe it is just me but it sounds like you were saying that we were headed for the same type of downfall as plano had.





Second, I never said SLC would become Mediocre or average please reread my statements.


If you are comparing SLC and what happened to plano then yes you did say that.


I have a all kinds of respect for SLC and of course as a die hard Plano a bit jealous of your unmatched success over the previous years and is now the face of Texas Football when that title belonged to Plano back in the day.


Oh ok...I understand now.:D

[BigRing5311]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.



PFW -

My reference that you had the opinion SLC would digress to mediocrity was from your original post. Nothing worth debating...just my interpretation.

[TXFOOSBALL]

PFW -

My reference that you had the opinion SLC would digress to mediocrity was from your original post. Nothing worth debating...just my interpretation.

Ok good....I wasn't the only one who interpreted it that way:D

[drgnbkr]

PWF wishes that Plano had been able to maintain thier winning ways through different coaches as Carroll has. But it was just not meant to be....Plano finally got their shot at the Dragons in 05 and PWF would like to blame it all on coaching...Remember PWF...Burkhead graduates after this season, so get ready for the Plano letdown...

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

PFW -

My reference that you had the opinion SLC would digress to mediocrity was from your original post. Nothing worth debating...just my interpretation.

I feel like Obama where every statement is magnified and defined to the 10th degree. Again I was talking about what happened to Plano. If it can happen to Plano and a dozen other elite programs through the years then it can happen Itany program even SLC's. I god forbid you link that statement I posted to SLC having a losing record. I am basically saying that SLC will have great seasons, good seasons and not so good seasons moving forward and maybe even poor seasons. That is up to SLC to TBD.

[drgnbkr]

I feel like Obama where every statement is magnified and defined to the 10th degree. Again I was talking about what happened to Plano. If it can happen to Plano and a dozen other elite programs through the years then it can happen Itany program even SLC's. I god forbid you link that statement I posted to SLC having a losing record. I am basically saying that SLC will have great seasons, good seasons and not so good seasons moving forward and maybe even poor seasons. That is up to SLC to TBD.

History tells us it won't happen anytime soon...look at the record...I've been around Coach Wasson for a while....believe me Brence is no Coach Wasson...So don't be comparing those two.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

PWF wishes that Plano had been able to maintain thier winning ways through different coaches as Carroll has. But it was just not meant to be....Plano finally got their shot at the Dragons in 05 and PWF would like to blame it all on coaching...Remember PWF...Burkhead graduates after this season, so get ready for the Plano letdown...


One player doesn't make a program. Wasson has had 1 season and went 11-2. Brence in his first 4 seasons went 42-10 after that he was barely a 500 coach. Plano's approach was totally differnent to what Carroll did. When a coach fell off and the program slipped the CISD quickly made changes. Plano held on for 8more years with the same HC and promoted him. Who knows. Had Plano acted accordingly like SLC Dodge could of ended up at Plano who knows.

[drgnbkr]

One player doesn't make a program. Wasson has had 1 season and went 11-2. Brence in his first 4 seasons went 42-10 after that he was barely a 500 coach. Plano's approach was totally differnent to what Carroll did. When a coach fell off and the program slipped the CISD quickly made changes. Plano held on for 8more years with the same HC and promoted him. Who knows. Had Plano acted accordingly like SLC Dodge could of ended up at Plano who knows.

My point was, don't be trying to compare Brence and Wasson...no comparison....In fact, in my mind, Plano ISD had 2 of the worst game coaches in the state in Brence and Ringo....And all I hear is negative's about the West Coach...so maybe if Plano opens a 4th HS, the odds are in your favor....Everyone gets lucky once in a while....

[farmerfan]

PWF wishes that Plano had been able to maintain thier winning ways through different coaches as Carroll has. But it was just not meant to be....Plano finally got their shot at the Dragons in 05 and PWF would like to blame it all on coaching...Remember PWF...Burkhead graduates after this season, so get ready for the Plano letdown...

and the dgnbkr arrogance rears its head yet again. While some of you do not agree with PWF and feel he has overstepped the lines, I do not see where. He is just making a point, while you love to spout about the winning ways of the Dragons over the last 20 years which is impressive, Plano and Permian both went over 30 years without a single losing season and had many more season where they went 9-1 and could not qualify for the post-season. Memory serves me that over the last 20 years Carroll has had a losing season and ran a coach out of town, did they not?
Also to insinuate that since one player is leaving then the program will fall down is a bit premature. I dislike Plano as much as anybody but gosh dang, I'm not even dumb enough to believe that after Burkhead leaves then their future seasons are done.

[farmerfan]

History tells us it won't happen anytime soon...look at the record...I've been around Coach Wasson for a while....believe me Brence is no Coach Wasson...So don't be comparing those two.

You're right, Brence is no Wasson. But be careful when attempting to make that claim, Brence has won a title as a head coach, advanced to another, advanced to a state semifinal, 2-3 regional finals and a few more playoff wins. What has Wasson done so far in his HC career?
Also, the fall may not come for a while, but bkr when it does, you are the one who is going to have the hardest and most difficult time dealign with it. Because another thing history tells is, is that programs such asthe Plano's andPermian's go through a rough spell too :eek:

[green day]

and the dgnbkr arrogance rears its head yet again.

FFan, Dback's favorite school has won 4 of last 6 state titles and knocked at the door on the others. I think he earns the right to state some pride...and he knows a little about local HS football

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Well, I know it's 2 different classes with 4 different coaches but...Celina damn sure didn't miss much of a beat when G.A. Moore retired. Coach Ford took over, and the Bobcats continued to be right there at the end as usual. Not to mention, they even moved up a class, and ended up in the championship their first 2 years in 3A. Also, Katy has won 2 rings since Coach Johnston retired, and they were recent. During this time, the Katy Tigers has also had to deal with the Katy ISD opening up mutiple high schools, which "should've" pulled away some of that talent.

Carroll will be fine!

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

]History tells us it won't happen anytime soon...look at the record...[/B]I've been around Coach Wasson for a while....believe me Brence is no Coach Wasson...So don't be comparing those two.

I was saying the same thing after Plano raised their 7 state title. 2 years later they went 5-6. Plano had 35 years without a losing record until that 96 season.

Funny thing about History it doesn't predict the future.

[SLC93]

and the dgnbkr arrogance rears its head yet again. While some of you do not agree with PWF and feel he has overstepped the lines, I do not see where. He is just making a point, while you love to spout about the winning ways of the Dragons over the last 20 years which is impressive, Plano and Permian both went over 30 years without a single losing season and had many more season where they went 9-1 and could not qualify for the post-season. Memory serves me that over the last 20 years Carroll has had a losing season and ran a coach out of town, did they not?
Also to insinuate that since one player is leaving then the program will fall down is a bit premature. I dislike Plano as much as anybody but gosh dang, I'm not even dumb enough to believe that after Burkhead leaves then their future seasons are done.

I knew you were a closet cat lover!:D

[drgnbkr]

You're right, Brence is no Wasson. But be careful when attempting to make that claim, Brence has won a title as a head coach, advanced to another, advanced to a state semifinal, 2-3 regional finals and a few more playoff wins. What has Wasson done so far in his HC career?
Also, the fall may not come for a while, but bkr when it does, you are the one who is going to have the hardest and most difficult time dealign with it. Because another thing history tells is, is that programs such asthe Plano's andPermian's go through a rough spell too :eek:

Boy, I go downstairs for a few minutes and look who shows up!.....The anti-backer...It's all good FF, just responding to PWF's seeming lack of a memory, but I guess I can always count on you to set him straight...I'm a fan and if confidence based on a long history is viewed by you as arrogance, so be it...Carroll has never lost to any Plano School, Permian, Lufkin, SV, Lewisville, a whole host of former state titleists, and if being proud of those accomplishments is arrogance...sorry. As I said, I'm correcting PWF on some of his inaccuracies...If thats wrong, well hell...shoot me!

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

PWF wishes that Plano had been able to maintain thier winning ways through different coaches as Carroll has. But it was just not meant to be....Plano finally got their shot at the Dragons in 05 and PWF would like to blame it all on coaching...Remember PWF...Burkhead graduates after this season, so get ready for the Plano letdown...

Carroll had their best team ever that year and Plano played them straight up for 4 quarters and gave them their toughest game of the year. I won't take anything away from Carroll on that win. They were the better team that day.

However, I would of liked to see Kimbrough as HC and Robert Woods as DC for Plano and see how things would of turned out that day.:rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

FFan, Dback's favorite school has won 4 of last 6 state titles and knocked at the door on the others. I think he earns the right to state some pride...and he knows a little about local HS football

Which is fine and dandy, there's a difference in being proud and being arrogant, most Carroll fans are proud and gracious and at times backer is not he comes across as a pompous :Censor: Sorry if you don't like it but thats just the way it comes across.
As far as knowing a little about local HS football, thats debatable, I say yes to Carroll football but to others, hes blinded by green glasses.

[drgnbkr]

Carroll had their best team ever that year and Plano played them straight up for 4 quarters and gave them their toughest game of the year. I won't take anything away from Carroll on that win. They were the better team that day.

However, I would of liked to see Kimbrough as HC and Robert Woods as DC for Plano and see how things would of turned out that day.:rolleyes:

If your aunt had balls she's be your uncle....:D

[drgnbkr]

Which is fine and dandy, there's a difference in being proud and being arrogant, most Carroll fans are proud and gracious and at times backer is not he comes across as a pompous :Censor: Sorry if you don't like it but thats just the way it comes across.
As far as knowing a little about local HS football, thats debatable, I say yes to Carroll football but to others, hes blinded by green glasses.

I am green with envy over your typing ability after midnight....I defy you to correctly spell pompous after midnight...:p

[farmerfan]

Boy, I go downstairs for a few minutes and look who shows up!.....The anti-backer...It's all good FF, just responding to PWF's seeming lack of a memory, but I guess I can always count on you to set him straight...I'm a fan and if confidence based on a long history is viewed by you as arrogance, so be it...Carroll has never lost to any Plano School, Permian, Lufkin, SV, Lewisville, a whole host of former state titleists, and if being proud of those accomplishments is arrogance...sorry. As I said, I'm correcting PWF on some of his inaccuracies...If thats wrong, well hell...shoot me!

What were wrong about his inaccuracies? Yours are easily countered, you say over the last 20 years about Carroll football well, that 20 years is noting compared to the 30+ Plano and Permian went without a losing season. Also you say history says Carroll will continue to win, well according to history in this great state, it says there will come a time when they won't. Look at Permian 99-05, Plano 96-04.
You also talk about Carroll never losing to a Permian or Plano or Lewisville school, once again thats fine and dandy, too badyou little guys couldnt have played those teams when they were at their hieght, they would have beaten your teams then. You've also only played Permian and Plano 1 time, those two programs were winning games and setting the bar long before Carroll thought about becoming the team it did.
As I said, theres a difference in whinning about rankings to Allen or telling people they will be a top 5 team and to brang it when you havent even seen what others have coming back and that your current coach who has never won anything is something more than a coach who has accomplished plenty.
You see it as pride, most others view it as arrogance and its a shame thats the attitude your fine program and school get dealt with but fans like yourself do no good to keep others outside the program from viewing your school and fanbase as such.

[farmerfan]

I am green with envy over your typing ability after midnight....I defy you to correctly spell pompous after midnight...:p

depending on what day of the week it is and I will gladly take you up on that offer.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

If your aunt had balls she's be your uncle....:D


That's the best you got? I thought you were funnier than that.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

I am green with envy over your typing ability after midnight....I defy you to correctly spell pompous after midnight...:p


I think its spelled drgnbkr!!:eek:

[farmerfan]

I think its spelled drgnbkr!!:eek:

no no no
he's just proud far cry from pompous ;)

[drgnbkr]

What were wrong about his inaccuracies? Yours are easily countered, you say over the last 20 years about Carroll football well, that 20 years is noting compared to the 30+ Plano and Permian went without a losing season. Also you say history says Carroll will continue to win, well according to history in this great state, it says there will come a time when they won't. Look at Permian 99-05, Plano 96-04.
You also talk about Carroll never losing to a Permian or Plano or Lewisville school, once again thats fine and dandy, too badyou little guys couldnt have played those teams when they were at their hieght, they would have beaten your teams then. You've also only played Permian and Plano 1 time, those two programs were winning games and setting the bar long before Carroll thought about becoming the team it did.
As I said, theres a difference in whinning about rankings to Allen or telling people they will be a top 5 team and to brang it when you havent even seen what others have coming back and that your current coach who has never won anything is something more than a coach who has accomplished plenty.
You see it as pride, most others view it as arrogance and its a shame thats the attitude your fine program and school get dealt with but fans like yourself do no good to keep others outside the program from viewing your school and fanbase as such.

Untwist your panties bud...I corrected some things PWF was rattleing on about and if you don't like it I'm sorry....I enjoy this board and I've had some good arguments / conversations on here with you, we've even done some fine tailgatin....but I think your a little over the edge here tonight...I know Plano is proud of what they did back in the day... I know your proud of what Lewisville did in the mid 90's....If I can't be proud of what Carroll has been doing for the past 20 years or so, the hell with ya!:p

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

My point was, don't be trying to compare Brence and Wasson...no comparison....In fact, in my mind, Plano ISD had 2 of the worst game coaches in the state in Brence and Ringo....And all I hear is negative's about the West Coach...so maybe if Plano opens a 4th HS, the odds are in your favor....Everyone gets lucky once in a while....

Brence did retire with more wins, less losses, better winning percentage and of course 1 state title. In their last head to head meeting Brence beat him by 40+.

I do agree though Wasson is a better coach especially when it comes to running a program, dealing with players, etc.

Bringing up Ringo and Hughes at East & West. Who cares I could care less about those 2 programs. That doesn't reflect what happens at PSHS.

[farmerfan]

Well, I know it's 2 different classes with 4 different coaches but...Celina damn sure didn't miss much of a beat when G.A. Moore retired. Coach Ford took over, and the Bobcats continued to be right there at the end as usual. Not to mention, they even moved up a class, and ended up in the championship their first 2 years in 3A. Also, Katy has won 2 rings since Coach Johnston retired, and they were recent. During this time, the Katy Tigers has also had to deal with the Katy ISD opening up mutiple high schools, which "should've" pulled away some of that talent.

Carroll will be fine!

Butch Ford and Coach Joesph are very similar in that they were taught by GA and Mike Johnston. They had been assistants for al ong time under both men.
Katy has only won 1 title under Joseph too and Celina got beat in the second round of the playoffs there first 2 years in 3A under Coach Ford, they lost by 1 to Dangerfield in 02 and got ran off the field by Gilmer in 02.

[Dynastybegan86]

p-o-t-a-t-o-e? Can you say, Dan Quayle?



I can do better than say it...... www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHK5-JhxXgtter

[farmerfan]

Untwist your panties bud...I corrected some things PWF was rattleing on about and if you don't like it I'm sorry....I enjoy this board and I've had some good arguments / conversations on here with you, we've even done some fine tailgatin....but I think your a little over the edge here tonight...I know Plano is proud of what they did back in the day... I know your proud of what Lewisville did in the mid 90's....If I can't be proud of what Carroll has been doing for the past 20 years or so, the hell with ya!:p

As I stated, there is a difference in being proud and being arrogrant with it. Guys like CCHS, DD, DrE, SLC93 are all very proud, they are humble and realize how special a thing the Dragons have going as of right now, some of them also realize that at anytime something could go wrong and the seasons of success wont be there. You seem to think that they will always be winning 12-16 games a year for the rest of eternity. Comments you make about the Allens being ranked ahead of Carroll in a pre-season poll, to the PWF is still mad about 05 blaming the loss on coaching to telling people to brang it and so forth is what "gets panties in a wad".
I am proud of Lewisville in the 90's but I dont go on and on about them unless something sparks up a response that is warranted, such as best option QB or team ever ;)
You seem to bringup Carroll whenever the chance is given, for example see the thread PWF started about Plano football regaining promenance.
Your also right about the tailgating, I enjoyed it and it was fun, however that was back in what seemed to be your more modest and humble days and my sober days.

[drgnbkr]

[QUOTE=farmerfan;796765]As I stated, there is a difference in being proud and being arrogrant with it. Guys like CCHS, DD, DrE, SLC93 are all very proud, they are humble and realize how special a thing the Dragons have going as of right now, some of them also realize that at anytime something could go wrong and the seasons of success wont be there. You seem to think that they will always be winning 12-16 games a year for the rest of eternity. Comments you make about the Allens being ranked ahead of Carroll in a pre-season poll, to the PWF is still mad about 05 blaming the loss on coaching to telling people to brang it and so forth is what "gets panties in a wad".
I am proud of Lewisville in the 90's but I dont go on and on about them unless something sparks up a response that is warranted, such as best option QB or team ever ;)
You seem to bringup Carroll whenever the chance is given, for example see the thread PWF started about Plano football regaining promenance.
Your also right about the tailgating, I enjoyed it and it was fun, however that was back in what seemed to be your more modest and humble days and my sober days.[/QUOTE

So hell, you stay sober and I'll be humble!:D;)

[farmerfan]

[QUOTE=farmerfan;796765]As I stated, there is a difference in being proud and being arrogrant with it. Guys like CCHS, DD, DrE, SLC93 are all very proud, they are humble and realize how special a thing the Dragons have going as of right now, some of them also realize that at anytime something could go wrong and the seasons of success wont be there. You seem to think that they will always be winning 12-16 games a year for the rest of eternity. Comments you make about the Allens being ranked ahead of Carroll in a pre-season poll, to the PWF is still mad about 05 blaming the loss on coaching to telling people to brang it and so forth is what "gets panties in a wad".
I am proud of Lewisville in the 90's but I dont go on and on about them unless something sparks up a response that is warranted, such as best option QB or team ever
You seem to bringup Carroll whenever the chance is given, for example see the thread PWF started about Plano football regaining promenance.
Your also right about the tailgating, I enjoyed it and it was fun, however that was back in what seemed to be your more modest and humble days and my sober days.[/QUOTE

So hell, you stay sober and I'll be humble!:D;)

Sobriety is impossible in the life of a single salesmen :eek::Censor:;)

[Dynastybegan86]

Butch Ford and Coach Joesph are very similar in that they were taught by GA and Mike Johnston. They had been assistants for al ong time under both men.
Katy has only won 1 title under Joseph too and Celina got beat in the second round of the playoffs there first 2 years in 3A under Coach Ford, they lost by 1 to Dangerfield in 02 and got ran off the field by Gilmer in 02.

True, but his point about the teams not missing much of it's footing is true as well.

Coach Joseph took over in '04..lost in the regional championship by 1 in ot, lost to SC in the state championship in '05, lost by 7 to cyfalls in regional championship in '06 and of course..WON the title in '07...pretty much kept the train chuggin' down the tracks. I realize your point of these 2 coaches being assistants, but if you followed Katy you would know with Coach Johnston we were a smash mouth team. Since Coach Joseph has taken the reigns he's been opening the throttle..a lot!

[drgnbkr]

[QUOTE=drgnbkr;796767]

Sobriety is impossible in the life of a single salesmen :eek::Censor:;)

Then the deals off...I guess I'll have to retain my pomposity!:D

[farmerfan]

[QUOTE=farmerfan;796771]

Then the deals off...I guess I'll have to retain my pomposity!:D

brang it :eek:

[drgnbkr]

[QUOTE=drgnbkr;796781]

brang it :eek:

You know where that came from don't you? We played Andrews in the playoffs in 99 I think, at Coppell, and they had one banner over their side of the stands, it said simply..."Bring it" No other signs or banners of any type...just "Bring it" They had a running back named Jaime Bueno and he was pretty salty...but Ricky Lay and the Dragons prevailed on that gray day in Coppell.

[farmerfan]

[QUOTE=farmerfan;796786]

You know where that came from don't you? We played Andrews in the playoffs in 99 I think, at Coppell, and they had one banner over their side of the stands, it said simply..."Bring it" No other signs or banners of any type...just "Bring it" They had a running back named Jaime Bueno and he was pretty salty...but Ricky Lay and the Dragons prevailed on that gray day in Coppell.


Come on backer, I expected better from you then to steal somebody elses material. :eek:;)

[drgnbkr]

[QUOTE=drgnbkr;796796]


Come on backer, I expected better from you then to steal somebody elses material. :eek:;)

I did change the spelling to how I pronounce it...:D

[farmerfan]

[QUOTE=farmerfan;796806]

I did change the spelling to how I pronounce it...:D

well good, as long as there is some originality involved then fine.

[DrEdward]

This thread certainly headed sideways in a hurry. :rolleyes: In any event, I expect Plano and Trinity to be very, very good again this year. Hopefully we will all get to see a game between them at sometime during the playoffs, as they will certainly both be D1 schools. I know I should simply rely on the polls and save the hassle of actually playing the game, having to drive to Texas Stadium, etc, but shucks, it'll be fall by then and I'll be in major football mode. Unfortunately, we can't get a match this year between the Dragons or the Trojans or the Wildcats. But I am confident that the coaching at all three schools will be more than adequate for all of us to wander through somehow. :cool:

[TrojanHorse03]

This thread certainly headed sideways in a hurry. :rolleyes: In any event, I expect Plano and Trinity to be very, very good again this year. Hopefully we will all get to see a game between them at sometime during the playoffs, as they will certainly both be D1 schools. I know I should simply rely on the polls and save the hassle of actually playing the game, having to drive to Texas Stadium, etc, but shucks, it'll be fall by then and I'll be in major football mode. Unfortunately, we can't get a match this year between the Dragons or the Trojans or the Wildcats. But I am confident that the coaching at all three schools will be more than adequate for all of us to wander through somehow. :cool:

Is there even a glimmer of hope that the Dragons could go D1 this year, like maybe the fall enrollment numbers might be different or something? Shoot seems like everyone else is in D1, why not Carroll too.

[farmerfan]

Is there even a glimmer of hope that the Dragons could go D1 this year, like maybe the fall enrollment numbers might be different or something? Shoot seems like everyone else is in D1, why not Carroll too.

There's none, Carroll is second smallest school in the new district by quite a few students. Don't worry though, Marcus will be tough and maybe not as sexy as Carroll right now, will give the Trojans one hell of a fight if they get the chance to square off in the regional finals.

[bigdaddydog]

Is there even a glimmer of hope that the Dragons could go D1 this year, like maybe the fall enrollment numbers might be different or something? Shoot seems like everyone else is in D1, why not Carroll too.

Sorry There does not seem to be any way that the Dragons could go D1

District 6-5A Enr.
Lewisville.........................3671
Lewisville Flower Mound......2997
Coppell............................2962
Lewisville Marcus...............2906
Southlake Carroll...............2544.5
Lewisville Hebron...............2513


~

[TrojanHorse03]

Don't worry though, Marcus will be tough and maybe not as sexy as Carroll right now, will give the Trojans one hell of a fight if they get the chance to square off in the regional finals.

Agreed ,Trinity will have some tough fights nearly every week this season, where we're ranked by some means nothing on the field and to our tough opponents.

[DrEdward]

Is there even a glimmer of hope that the Dragons could go D1 this year, like maybe the fall enrollment numbers might be different or something? Shoot seems like everyone else is in D1, why not Carroll too.

Not even a snowball's chance..... Carroll is only marginally larger than Hebron and we will the smallest two schools in 6-5A. The other schools are hundreds or even a thousand larger than is Carroll. So with four teams heading into the playoffs, it is a gurantee that there will be at least two schools larger than either of us. Yet there is a chance that Allen which is about double Carroll's size (I think), can find its way into D2. I love when a UIL plan comes together. :rolleyes:

[bigdaddydog]

Not even a snowball's chance..... Carroll is only marginally larger than Hebron and we will the smallest two schools in 6-5A. The other schools are hundreds or even a thousand larger than is Carroll. So with four teams heading into the playoffs, it is a gurantee that there will be at least two schools larger than either of us. Yet there is a chance that Allen which is about double Carroll's size (I think), can find its way into D2. I love when a UIL plan comes together. :rolleyes:

I am just hopeful that Allen can make the playoffs. Despite the confidence the KT's have shown with their rankings this is going to be a tough year and I don't take anything for granted these days.

Assuming Plano makes it to the Playoffs, then East must pull the rabbit out of their young inexperienced offensive Hat and make the playoffs for Allen to potentially be D2. Some how that does not give me a warm fuzzy. The Allen Southlake thing is like an abusive relationship that we just can't get away from. (Assuming we make it out of the first round)

That's alot of what if's! :D

District 8-5A..............Enr.
Plano East................5852
Plano.......................5215
Allen........................4837
Plano West...............4229
Wylie.......................2745
McKinney Boyd..........2275
Dallas Jesuit..............2058


~

[TXFOOSBALL]

You know where that came from don't you? We played Andrews in the playoffs in 99 I think, at Coppell, and they had one banner over their side of the stands, it said simply..."Bring it" No other signs or banners of any type...just "Bring it" They had a running back named Jaime Bueno and he was pretty salty...but Ricky Lay and the Dragons prevailed on that gray day in Coppell.

I was on that team. We were down 21-0 in the first quarter. I had a nice diving catch for a 2 point conversion in that game:D Kyle Brown had a sweeeet PR in that game...actually he pretty much won the game for us.

Oh yea....it was 2000 though:)

[twcpfan1]

Looks like Carroll are in the same situation as Klein. For some reason, they ended up with half a kid.

[SLC93]

If your aunt had balls she's be your uncle....:D

LMFAO!

[SLC93]

[QUOTE=drgnbkr;796767]

Sobriety is impossible in the life of a single salesmen :eek::Censor:;)

:laugh:D

[SLC93]

I was on that team. We were down 21-0 in the first quarter. I had a nice diving catch for a 2 point conversion in that game:D Kyle Brown had a sweeeet PR in that game...actually he pretty much won the game for us.

Oh yea....it was 2000 though:)

I was in the stands for that one. Great game, great effort.

[TXFOOSBALL]

I was in the stands for that one. Great game, great effort.

I wish I could have seen our offense in Dodge's spread offense. We were running a totally different offense but we definitely had the athletes to run it.

[dragonsdaddy]

I wish I could have seen our offense in Dodge's spread offense. We were running a totally different offense but we definitely had the athletes to run it.

ricky would never have been as successful, though, as he had a very weak arm. he was a great kid and a competitor, but was not a great qb, at least in the likes of other dodge era qbs. kb, on the other hand, was a few years ahead of his time. his running ability was beyond compare, in the open field. really, that team could have beaten wf, but not ennis. the learning curve on that team was steep, but they handled it pretty well i think. beating the defending champion in ts was mammoth in setting the tone for years to come. it wasn't really dodgeball, but it definitely was taking the jackets to charlieland. the defensive effort was stiffling. anything was better than the year before, btw. the bar was set pretty low in 99, unfortunately.

[TXFOOSBALL]

ricky would never have been as successful, though, as he had a very weak arm. he was a great kid and a competitor, but was not a great qb, at least in the likes of other dodge era qbs. kb, on the other hand, was a few years ahead of his time. his running ability was beyond compare, in the open field. really, that team could have beaten wf, but not ennis. the learning curve on that team was steep, but they handled it pretty well i think. beating the defending champion in ts was mammoth in setting the tone for years to come. it wasn't really dodgeball, but it definitely was taking the jackets to charlieland. the defensive effort was stiffling. anything was better than the year before, btw. the bar was set pretty low in 99, unfortunately.

WOW! Couldn't have said it any better myself....I agree with every single line. You must have watched that team pretty close:D

[texan_75010]

This is one of the most enjoyable threads I have read in quite a while. I cannot resist giving my 2 cents so here goes.

Southlake's success does not hinge on coaching as much as other HS teams. The community is a huge reason for the success of the program. I am not from Southlake and I have no ties to them. I am simply an admirer. Not only is the football program superior, but so are the academics. The parents are not better than anyone else, but they work harder and smarter. They are the movers and shakers. This attitude is passed down to their kids. From an early age they are taught winning ways. Not arrogance, not false pride, not that they are better than others, but how to win. Winning is not just beating your opponent, but it's also not beating yourself. It is overcoming all obstacles. It is not allowing defeat or discouragement to overcome your spirit. The community draws successful people, some of whom are ex professional athletes. The community invests in themselves and their children and in their schools. All of the schools, not just the high school. They foster an environment of excellence where success is more of an expectation rather than aspiration. SLC has something that other elite programs do not. There are other wealthy communities that do not have the same success and other communities that enjoy a tradition of winning without those economic advantages. Having both just puts you in a class by yourself. Sorry to be such an a$$ kisser, but I am calling it like I see it.

There are other communities that seem to have similar programs, Katy comes to mind. I see a lot of restraint and humility from both SLC fans and Katy fans. If there were anyone who could come on this board and be obnoxiously arrogant it's them. Are they proud? Yes, of course. But they have keep themselves in check. Plano fans could learn a lot from them.

Just like mutual funds, past performance does always translate in to future success. If I was investing, I would put my money on programs like SLC, Katy, ET and Hebron. (Yes, I am a Hebron supporter so I am throwing them in this mix although they are nowhere near these other programs, but they are getting there).

These programs are different because the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Not saying that other teams don’t have special years and special players (Mr. Cole), but once the players are gone, so is the specialness.

Some (OK, one) of the Plano fans have stomped in to the room like a 2 two year old in a diaper with their cowboy belt on and their cowboy hat, claiming they are going to shoot up the place. That's nice and all, but it was your daddy's team that won those championships, not you. Holster your cap gun and use your grownup inside voice. You had a good season last year, you will have one this year. Show some restraint in your zeal in pointing it out to the rest of us because like a typical 2 year old, at some point you're going to fill your diaper, but no one here is going to feel sorry enough for you to change it.

As a Hebron fan, I have a quiet confidence that this year's team is special but I think we are three seasons away from having a year like Cedar Hill had when they won it all.

I have nothing but respect for the elite teams of 5A and I would never be so arrogant as to think a winning season is a forgone conclusion. It is attitudes like that which is the main ingredient in the recipe of failure. A real winner is gracious in victory, and their defeats build humility. Pride goes before the fall. Hebron had it's fall the first year they came in to 5A. Fresh off a state championship, ranked 4th in state, Cedar Hill came in and put a smack on the Hawks that still echos to this day. From that day on I have tried to keep my zeal in check. Cedar Hill was the only team to beat Hebron that year. Hebron had by all accounts a stellar season, but Cedar Hill was having one of those extra special seasons. Will this be Plano's year? Who knows. But the odds are more against that happening than for it. An injury or two, or someone becoming ineligible and your dream season crumbles.

Bottom line is, it is way too early for anyone to be talking with any voice other than that of hopeful expectations.

[dragonpants]

So lets get this straight, you're saying now that Bence moved up in Plano's hiearchy things will get better????

A new coach from within the system is somehow going to improve things?????

And you see similarity in SLC?:confused:

Didn't they promote Wasson (nothing against him, good offense coordinator not head coach) from within?:confused: Did they get better?:confused:

Only thing I saw last year with Plano is one person carrying a team with enough halfway decent teammates versus 06 not enough decent teammates and that took them only so far.

Guess we'll see what this year holds:rolleyes:

Wasson was an assistant coach when his son was the State Champion QB. He is no Todd Dodge. He coached at Fossil Ridge and goes through his staff like crazy. The kids are not real thrilled with him either. But look at who they are comparing him to. Coaches like TD are few and far between and I am not just talking about X's and O's. He is a great person. Carroll has had a great run, and at no time did anyone believe we were going to win the next 20 state championships.
Our program will continue to be excellent because of a number of factors most notably the kids. They work harder and are more team oriented than you will find anywhere. That comes from the parents and from the pee wee coaches and all the support they get from the community. This Dragon "thing" is amazing and you cannot understand it until you have lived here. No I am not trying to rip off a Todd Dodge quote.
Every child is a Dragon from kindergarten on up. It builds a sense of belonging and inclusion
The booster club supports the school unlike any place I have seen.
There is no shortage of volunteers to help with any aspect of the program. Men who want to help coach pee wee football are turned away because there is too much interest in wanting to help.
That is what builds and maintains a great program.
Carroll has been great for a long time. Before Todd Dodge.

In terms of a comparison between Todd Dodge and Hal Wasson. There isn't one. No one is trying to say he is or ever will be that caliber of coach.

[dragonsdaddy]

This is one of the most enjoyable threads I have read in quite a while. I cannot resist giving my 2 cents so here goes.

Southlake's success does not hinge on coaching as much as other HS teams. The community is a huge reason for the success of the program. I am not from Southlake and I have no ties to them. I am simply an admirer. Not only is the football program superior, but so are the academics. The parents are not better than anyone else, but they work harder and smarter. They are the movers and shakers. This attitude is passed down to their kids. From an early age they are taught winning ways. Not arrogance, not false pride, not that they are better than others, but how to win. Winning is not just beating your opponent, but it's also not beating yourself. It is overcoming all obstacles. It is not allowing defeat or discouragement to overcome your spirit. The community draws successful people, some of whom are ex professional athletes. The community invests in themselves and their children and in their schools. All of the schools, not just the high school. They foster an environment of excellence where success is more of an expectation rather than aspiration. SLC has something that other elite programs do not. There are other wealthy communities that do not have the same success and other communities that enjoy a tradition of winning without those economic advantages. Having both just puts you in a class by yourself. Sorry to be such an a$$ kisser, but I am calling it like I see it.

There are other communities that seem to have similar programs, Katy comes to mind. I see a lot of restraint and humility from both SLC fans and Katy fans. If there were anyone who could come on this board and be obnoxiously arrogant it's them. Are they proud? Yes, of course. But they have keep themselves in check. Plano fans could learn a lot from them.

Just like mutual funds, past performance does always translate in to future success. If I was investing, I would put my money on programs like SLC, Katy, ET and Hebron. (Yes, I am a Hebron supporter so I am throwing them in this mix although they are nowhere near these other programs, but they are getting there).

These programs are different because the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Not saying that other teams don’t have special years and special players (Mr. Cole), but once the players are gone, so is the specialness.

Some (OK, one) of the Plano fans have stomped in to the room like a 2 two year old in a diaper with their cowboy belt on and their cowboy hat, claiming they are going to shoot up the place. That's nice and all, but it was your daddy's team that won those championships, not you. Holster your cap gun and use your grownup inside voice. You had a good season last year, you will have one this year. Show some restraint in your zeal in pointing it out to the rest of us because like a typical 2 year old, at some point you're going to fill your diaper, but no one here is going to feel sorry enough for you to change it.

As a Hebron fan, I have a quiet confidence that this year's team is special but I think we are three seasons away from having a year like Cedar Hill had when they won it all.

I have nothing but respect for the elite teams of 5A and I would never be so arrogant as to think a winning season is a forgone conclusion. It is attitudes like that which is the main ingredient in the recipe of failure. A real winner is gracious in victory, and their defeats build humility. Pride goes before the fall. Hebron had it's fall the first year they came in to 5A. Fresh off a state championship, ranked 4th in state, Cedar Hill came in and put a smack on the Hawks that still echos to this day. From that day on I have tried to keep my zeal in check. Cedar Hill was the only team to beat Hebron that year. Hebron had by all accounts a stellar season, but Cedar Hill was having one of those extra special seasons. Will this be Plano's year? Who knows. But the odds are more against that happening than for it. An injury or two, or someone becoming ineligible and your dream season crumbles.

Bottom line is, it is way too early for anyone to be talking with any voice other than that of hopeful expectations.

no. it really was him and his teammates that won at least 1 of those rings. he remembers how it used to be, and to tell the truth, so do i. i saw a lot of "old" plano in sl when we moved there. i agree with your a$$ kissing, btw. it is much more than just the football success that is really at work. sl and several other programs (even, ugh, hp) have worked extremely hard to develop a winning tude that carries over to all facets of competition/life. and it starts from the ground up. parents never get enough blame when things aren't working, or enough credit when they succede.

i too am a huge hebron fan. i remember the way they carried themselves from day one at 7on7 games and have been impressed ever since. and to think, their closest neighbors are the horrifically weak carrollton-fb schools and the colony. i will be shocked if they don't beat slc at least once in the next 3-4 years. i am planning on viewing the plano and slc v hebron games this year. good luck.

[TXFOOSBALL]

Wasson was an assistant coach when his son was the State Champion QB. He is no Todd Dodge. He coached at Fossil Ridge and goes through his staff like crazy. The kids are not real thrilled with him either. But look at who they are comparing him to. Coaches like TD are few and far between and I am not just talking about X's and O's. He is a great person. Carroll has had a great run, and at no time did anyone believe we were going to win the next 20 state championships.
Our program will continue to be excellent because of a number of factors most notably the kids. They work harder and are more team oriented than you will find anywhere. That comes from the parents and from the pee wee coaches and all the support they get from the community. This Dragon "thing" is amazing and you cannot understand it until you have lived here. No I am not trying to rip off a Todd Dodge quote.
Every child is a Dragon from kindergarten on up. It builds a sense of belonging and inclusion
The booster club supports the school unlike any place I have seen.
There is no shortage of volunteers to help with any aspect of the program. Men who want to help coach pee wee football are turned away because there is too much interest in wanting to help.
That is what builds and maintains a great program.
Carroll has been great for a long time. Before Todd Dodge.


In terms of a comparison between Todd Dodge and Hal Wasson. There isn't one. No one is trying to say he is or ever will be that caliber of coach.

Are you serious?

[grayowl60]

This is one of the most enjoyable threads I have read in quite a while. I cannot resist giving my 2 cents so here goes.

Southlake's success does not hinge on coaching as much as other HS teams. The community is a huge reason for the success of the program. I am not from Southlake and I have no ties to them. I am simply an admirer. Not only is the football program superior, but so are the academics. The parents are not better than anyone else, but they work harder and smarter. They are the movers and shakers. This attitude is passed down to their kids. From an early age they are taught winning ways. Not arrogance, not false pride, not that they are better than others, but how to win. Winning is not just beating your opponent, but it's also not beating yourself. It is overcoming all obstacles. It is not allowing defeat or discouragement to overcome your spirit. The community draws successful people, some of whom are ex professional athletes. The community invests in themselves and their children and in their schools. All of the schools, not just the high school. They foster an environment of excellence where success is more of an expectation rather than aspiration. SLC has something that other elite programs do not. There are other wealthy communities that do not have the same success and other communities that enjoy a tradition of winning without those economic advantages. Having both just puts you in a class by yourself. Sorry to be such an a$$ kisser, but I am calling it like I see it.

There are other communities that seem to have similar programs, Katy comes to mind. I see a lot of restraint and humility from both SLC fans and Katy fans. If there were anyone who could come on this board and be obnoxiously arrogant it's them. Are they proud? Yes, of course. But they have keep themselves in check. Plano fans could learn a lot from them.

Just like mutual funds, past performance does always translate in to future success. If I was investing, I would put my money on programs like SLC, Katy, ET and Hebron. (Yes, I am a Hebron supporter so I am throwing them in this mix although they are nowhere near these other programs, but they are getting there).

These programs are different because the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Not saying that other teams don’t have special years and special players (Mr. Cole), but once the players are gone, so is the specialness.

Some (OK, one) of the Plano fans have stomped in to the room like a 2 two year old in a diaper with their cowboy belt on and their cowboy hat, claiming they are going to shoot up the place. That's nice and all, but it was your daddy's team that won those championships, not you. Holster your cap gun and use your grownup inside voice. You had a good season last year, you will have one this year. Show some restraint in your zeal in pointing it out to the rest of us because like a typical 2 year old, at some point you're going to fill your diaper, but no one here is going to feel sorry enough for you to change it.

As a Hebron fan, I have a quiet confidence that this year's team is special but I think we are three seasons away from having a year like Cedar Hill had when they won it all.

I have nothing but respect for the elite teams of 5A and I would never be so arrogant as to think a winning season is a forgone conclusion. It is attitudes like that which is the main ingredient in the recipe of failure. A real winner is gracious in victory, and their defeats build humility. Pride goes before the fall. Hebron had it's fall the first year they came in to 5A. Fresh off a state championship, ranked 4th in state, Cedar Hill came in and put a smack on the Hawks that still echos to this day. From that day on I have tried to keep my zeal in check. Cedar Hill was the only team to beat Hebron that year. Hebron had by all accounts a stellar season, but Cedar Hill was having one of those extra special seasons. Will this be Plano's year? Who knows. But the odds are more against that happening than for it. An injury or two, or someone becoming ineligible and your dream season crumbles.

Bottom line is, it is way too early for anyone to be talking with any voice other than that of hopeful expectations.
:eek::notworthy;):D

[Southlake Carroll Dragons]

I think Carroll will be great next year.

[wesaxman34]

I think Carroll will be great next year.

haha, your signature scared the :Censor: out of me when i was scrolling down.

[dragonpants]

Are you serious?

I am serious. I am not going to mention any kids names as is not fair to them but yes it is not as peaceful as it once was.

A few prominent seniors skipped the football banquet for a reason and it was not that they enrolled early at colleges.

The displeasure is not about his coaching but more about his leadership, the loss against Abilene was blamed on a specific player and a lack of senior leadership.

[wesaxman34]

I am serious. I am not going to mention any kids names as is not fair to them but yes it is not as peaceful as it once was.

A few prominent seniors skipped the football banquet for a reason and it was not that they enrolled early at colleges.

The displeasure is not about his coaching but more about his leadership, the loss against Abilene was blamed on a specific player and a lack of senior leadership.


hmm, thats interesting.

[Fleeman93]

All is not well on the Northern front.

[SLC93]

I am serious. I am not going to mention any kids names as is not fair to them but yes it is not as peaceful as it once was.

A few prominent seniors skipped the football banquet for a reason and it was not that they enrolled early at colleges.

The displeasure is not about his coaching but more about his leadership, the loss against Abilene was blamed on a specific player and a lack of senior leadership.

To be perfectly honest the best thing for Wasson is the graduation of this senior class. I can say this because I am an alum and was raised in Southlake. Watching many of our games last season I did not like the body language and attitude of many of the seniors. There were several instances that genuinely disappointed me. I do not say that to demean their accomplishments, talent or character. I say it merely because I observed it. There were many times I felt some of the seniors on that squad were guilty of reading too many of their own press clippings. They overcame more than many even realize last year but they were also their own worst enemy at times. It was a tough situation for boh sides. Wasson stepping into a ready made, championship level program where expectation is the only thing that surpasses performance. The seniors prepping to play the biggest year of their life without the voice that guided them to it.

[bigdaddydog]

I am serious. I am not going to mention any kids names as is not fair to them but yes it is not as peaceful as it once was.

A few prominent seniors skipped the football banquet for a reason and it was not that they enrolled early at colleges.

The displeasure is not about his coaching but more about his leadership, the loss against Abilene was blamed on a specific player and a lack of senior leadership.

Regardless of the program, you are talking about one of the keys to not only football coaching, but life. It is not a reputation issue as much as it is a character issue. If your character is right, your reputation will take care of itself.

When things go well all the credit should go to the kids/troops/workers. When things do not go well all the blame/heat should be borne by the Coaches/Officers/managers.

When the people in the trenches screw up, They know it better than anyone. When coaches take the heat by taking responsibility it communicates to the kids. "I've got your back" "We Win and lose as a team" "I respect you".

When the Coaches give up on the kids, you better believe they know it.

Oh yeah, it is never too late to improve character.

Good luck Green ones. :)


~

[TXFOOSBALL]

To be perfectly honest the best thing for Wasson is the graduation of this senior class. I can say this because I am an alum and was raised in Southlake. Watching many of our games last season I did not like the body language and attitude of many of the seniors. There were several instances that genuinely disappointed me. I do not say that to demean their accomplishments, talent or character. I say it merely because I observed it. There were many times I felt some of the seniors on that squad were guilty of reading too many of their own press clippings. They overcame more than many even realize last year but they were also their own worst enemy at times. It was a tough situation for boh sides. Wasson stepping into a ready made, championship level program where expectation is the only thing that surpasses performance. The seniors prepping to play the biggest year of their life without the voice that guided them to it.

Well said as always SLC93.

[DrEdward]

I was in the stands for that one. Great game, great effort.

Me too and was utterly amazed at the show Brown put on in the second half. Good thing too, as I was pretty much a nervous wreck at the end of the first half. (but not as bad as I was at Waco in 2002.)

[TXFOOSBALL]

Me too and was utterly amazed at the show Brown put on in the second half. Good thing too, as I was pretty much a nervous wreck at the end of the first half. (but not as bad as I was at Waco in 2002.)


Kyle and I were just talking about that game last week....He wishes he would have given football a chance in college especially after seeing the success Welker has had.

[DrEdward]

Kyle and I were just talking about that game last week....He wishes he would have given football a chance in college especially after seeing the success Welker has had.

Kyle had the most amazing pair of feet I have seen on a football field since Johnny Rogers; the moves he could put on were simply amazing. Plus he could go from full speed to stop to full speed again in about two steps. I was awfully glad I never had to cover him. He certainly could have played at Tulsa. One of the Tulsa football recruiters was in the AD's office right after Kyle had signed up and was asking about Kyle. It was pointed out that he might want to talk to Tulsa's soccer coach, since Brown was going to be on their campus the following fall. Guess he never followed up on the interest.

[TXFOOSBALL]

Kyle had the most amazing pair of feet I have seen on a football field since Johnny Rogers; the moves he could put on were simply amazing. Plus he could go from full speed to stop to full speed again in about two steps. I was awfully glad I never had to cover him. He certainly could have played at Tulsa. One of the Tulsa football recruiters was in the AD's office right after Kyle had signed up and was asking about Kyle. It was pointed out that he might want to talk to Tulsa's soccer coach, since Brown was going to be on their campus the following fall. Guess he never followed up on the interest.

I had to cover him in practice.....not fun. He would run a bubble route and it would be Him and I 1 on 1. It got to a point where I wouldn't even break down and go for the tackle anymore.:D Coach Dodge compared him to Eric Metcalf. I am so mad that I never saw the kid play college ball....he did a dis service to everyone:D Although professional soccer isn't too bad.

He could have played football at TONS of places. He had an answering machine message from Mack Brown asking kyle to come play for the Longhorns....Kyle never even called him back:eek: He got several big time offers...I would have to ask him but I can't remember the teams right now.

[dragonsdaddy]

I had to cover him in practice.....not fun. He would run a bubble route and it would be Him and I 1 on 1. It got to a point where I wouldn't even break down and go for the tackle anymore.:D Coach Dodge compared him to Eric Metcalf. I am so mad that I never saw the kid play college ball....he did a dis service to everyone:D Although professional soccer isn't too bad.

He could have played football at TONS of places. He had an answering machine message from Mack Brown asking kyle to come play for the Longhorns....Kyle never even called him back:eek: He got several big time offers...I would have to ask him but I can't remember the teams right now.

i made a 7-8 minute highlight tape of kyle's best plays his sr year, and it is pretty impressive. he has it somewhere as i gave his dad a copy. it is worth the watch.

[TXFOOSBALL]

i made a 7-8 minute highlight tape of kyle's best plays his sr year, and it is pretty impressive. he has it somewhere as i gave his dad a copy. it is worth the watch.

Really?? I was just talking to him last weekend about how I needed to make a highlight film of him. Did you give his dad the copy or his step-dad? I need to tell him to bring it back to houston next time he is in Dallas.

You know he is meeting the president today in DC??...The whole Dynamo team is.

[SLCDad]

I dont think Wasson is a "lesser coach" at all. I think he will prove himself to everyone this upcoming season and will be just as good as todd dodge if not better.

Wasson's first season at SLC was better than Dodge's.

Wasson's record prior to becoming SLC head coach was better than Dodge's.

[Fleeman93]

Wasson's first season at SLC was better than Dodge's.

Wasson's record prior to becoming SLC head coach was better than Dodge's.


Wasson was handed the #1 or #2 ranked team in the state. I would have to imagine that Dodge didn't get that when he signed up.

[dragonsdaddy]

Really?? I was just talking to him last weekend about how I needed to make a highlight film of him. Did you give his dad the copy or his step-dad? I need to tell him to bring it back to houston next time he is in Dallas.

You know he is meeting the president today in DC??...The whole Dynamo team is.

it was his step-dad.

[TXFOOSBALL]

it was his step-dad.

His mom and stepdad come down to houston from tulsa for a lot of games...I will have to tell him to bring it next time they come.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Wasson's first season at SLC was better than Dodge's.

Wasson's record prior to becoming SLC head coach was better than Dodge's.

Winning % was barely over 500 and he had many more years as a head coach that shows a true trend of his coaching success. Dodge was a HC for 3 years with 2 at Newman Smith.

[dragonsdaddy]

Winning % was barely over 500 and he had many more years as a head coach that shows a true trend of his coaching success. Dodge was a HC for 3 years with 2 at Newman Smith.

td had 2 years at fridge and a couple at cameron-yoe as well. your theory wouldn't hold up too well with td, as he was winning at about a 38% clip prior to slc.

[drgnbkr]

Winning % was barely over 500 and he had many more years as a head coach that shows a true trend of his coaching success. Dodge was a HC for 3 years with 2 at Newman Smith.

Wasson's record as a head coach is 133-85-2....over a 20 year career.

[SLC93]

Winning % was barely over 500 and he had many more years as a head coach that shows a true trend of his coaching success. Dodge was a HC for 3 years with 2 at Newman Smith.

I have him more than 40 games over .500 with a winning percentage of a bit more than 60. Wasson coached at alot of smaller, out of the way type schools , not football hotbeds. I'd say he has little to apologize for.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Wasson's record as a head coach is 133-85-2....over a 20 year career.


60% is not really SLC standards is it You think he he continues that trend he would still be the coach their in 5 years? Not saying that he will continue that trend but his history does show a slightly above average winning percentage that is way below SLC's record over the last 20 years.

[dragonsdaddy]

60% is not really SLC standards is it You think he he continues that trend he would still be the coach their in 5 years? Not saying that he will continue that trend but his history does show a slightly above average winning percentage that is way below SLC's record over the last 20 years.if td was hidred with his pre-slc record, i guess wasson deserves a chance too.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Agreed. However, Dodge quickly moved the program up and won his first title in year 2 or 3. What if Wasson goes 5 years without a title and goes like 11-2, 9-3, 8-3, 12-1 & 7-4. Does in stay as HC? 47-13 pretty good record but he will always be judged to Dodge's accomplishments. Brence was measured to Kimbrough and didn't measure up. I think the coach after the coach that follows a legend always benefits more.

Remember coach Perkins who followed Bear Bryant. Poor guy didn't have a chance. Fred Akers followed Darrel Royal, do I even have to comment on that comparsion.

[dragonsdaddy]

Agreed. However, Dodge quickly moved the program up and won his first title in year 2 or 3. What if Wasson goes 5 years without a title and goes like 11-2, 9-3, 8-3, 12-1 & 7-4. Does in stay as HC? 47-13 pretty good record but he will always be judged to Dodge's accomplishments. Brence was measured to Kimbrough and didn't measure up. I think the coach after the coach that follows a legend always benefits more.

Remember coach Perkins who followed Bear Bryant. Poor guy didn't have a chance. Fred Akers followed Darrel Royal, do I even have to comment on that comparsion.

the tradition is many things, as you know. winning state titles is the preferred endpoint, but so too is playing up to your potential. i can't predict what the ptb would do under your scenario, but if good, hard-working young men keep rolling off the line, i doubt he'll be shown the door.

[drgnbkr]

Agreed. However, Dodge quickly moved the program up and won his first title in year 2 or 3. What if Wasson goes 5 years without a title and goes like 11-2, 9-3, 8-3, 12-1 & 7-4. Does in stay as HC? 47-13 pretty good record but he will always be judged to Dodge's accomplishments. Brence was measured to Kimbrough and didn't measure up. I think the coach after the coach that follows a legend always benefits more.

Remember coach Perkins who followed Bear Bryant. Poor guy didn't have a chance. Fred Akers followed Darrel Royal, do I even have to comment on that comparsion.

Coach Dodge was hired by and measured by the record of Bob Ledbetter, who had 3 titles & his teams set and still hold the Texas High School Football all time regular season winning streak at 72. As Coach Dodge so aptly put it, he wanted to "Protect the tradition"...Coach Wasson is well equipped to do the same, and will do so just fine...IMO.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Coach Dodge was hired by and measured by the record of Bob Ledbetter, who had 3 titles & his teams set and still hold the Texas High School Football all time regular season winning streak at 72. As Coach Dodge so aptly put it, he wanted to "Protect the tradition"...Coach Wasson is well equipped to do the same, and will do so just fine...IMO.

Correct, and he is the rare example of exceeding a legends success and accomplishments, he quickly won a state title in his 3rd year.

Curious what you thought of him when SLC started 0-5 in his first season?

[dragonsdaddy]

Correct, and he is the rare example of exceeding a legends success and accomplishments, he quickly won a state title in his 3rd year.

Curious what you thought of him when SLC started 0-5 in his first season?

never went 0-5. started 2-3 in n-d both 00 and 01. they were improving every game, so the smarter fans waited for the inevitable wins. again, coming off a horrible coaching performance in 99, td was the freshest air we could imagine.

[drgnbkr]

Correct, and he is the rare example of exceeding a legends success and accomplishments, he quickly won a state title in his 3rd year.

Curious what you thought of him when SLC started 0-5 in his first season?

It wasn't 0-5 and we were very excited about him...It was getting better quickly and such an improvement over what we had...

[TXFOOSBALL]

never went 0-5. started 2-3 in n-d both 00 and 01. they were improving every game, so the smarter fans waited for the inevitable wins. again, coming off a horrible coaching performance in 99, td was the freshest air we could imagine.

I was on Coach Dodge's first Carroll team and I was honestly not worried after losing the first three games of our season. He had a swagger that rubbed off on all of us. We also knew that we were playing some tough teams early on. Every single game we were accomplishing more goals than the last.

WF - One of the top 2 teams in the state that year. Everyone knew how great that team was to start the season. Their team was made up of all of the sons of the 60's WF's team that dominated...there was a lot of write ups about them. We lost by 21.

Haltom - I believe they were a 5a team. We lost by 14

Highland Park - Always a great 4A team lost by 6 points.

[DrEdward]

Correct, and he is the rare example of exceeding a legends success and accomplishments, he quickly won a state title in his 3rd year.

Curious what you thought of him when SLC started 0-5 in his first season?

After the first three games of Todd's first season, the Council's pregame tailgate parties were down to bread and water - literally - until the Dragons managed to win. So we were not happy, but we could take it in stride with a sense of humor. However, 2002 - 2007 were admitedly much happier times. But then, no one expects the Dragons to only lose three games over the next several seasons. If it were to happen, then great, but no one would be stunned if Carroll doesn't have the same indescribable level of success that our first years in 5A produced.

[Warbird]

Watching many of our games last season I did not like the body language and attitude of many of the seniors. There were several instances that genuinely disappointed me...

You know, it's funny. Going into that game, I was pretty worried right up until I watched some film. The gameplay was good, despite the fact that we were looking at the Rockwall and Flower Mound games. What I noticed most was the difference in the way the team carried themselves. At A-High most of us made sure we had our jerseys tucked in to start the game; the instant I saw that many of the SLC players began the games with their jerseys un-tucked, I got a gut feeling that we had a pretty good chance. That told me this SLC team did not carry themselves the way that the 04 or 05 squads did.

And that meant they were vulnerable.

[dragonsdaddy]

You know, it's funny. Going into that game, I was pretty worried right up until I watched some film. The gameplay was good, despite the fact that we were looking at the Rockwall and Flower Mound games. What I noticed most was the difference in the way the team carried themselves. At A-High most of us made sure we had our jerseys tucked in to start the game; the instant I saw that many of the SLC players began the games with their jerseys un-tucked, I got a gut feeling that we had a pretty good chance. That told me this SLC team did not carry themselves the way that the 04 or 05 squads did.

And that meant they were vulnerable.

if by vulnerable, you mean without the returning 5a player of the year, they might not be as good, then yeah, i agree. did they look vulnerable before rd went down? to me, as an outsider, they looked almost as vulnerable as the 05 dragons did down in waco. the 07 game was a tale of 2 qbs, for sure.

[DrEdward]

You know, it's funny. Going into that game, I was pretty worried right up until I watched some film. The gameplay was good, despite the fact that we were looking at the Rockwall and Flower Mound games. What I noticed most was the difference in the way the team carried themselves. At A-High most of us made sure we had our jerseys tucked in to start the game; the instant I saw that many of the SLC players began the games with their jerseys un-tucked, I got a gut feeling that we had a pretty good chance. That told me this SLC team did not carry themselves the way that the 04 or 05 squads did.

And that meant they were vulnerable.

Interesting insight. I was at Texas Stadium in earlier years watching the Dragons' offense head out onto the field when it struck me that those boys indeed carried themselves and looked like a college team in the process.
I would agree that identical "look" was not there on last year's squad, but that could well have been simply the result of some different players. But just as importantly, the adoption of UnderArmor jersies could be somewhat responsible. Those things have very little to tuck in compared to other manufacturers' jersies. But as dd pointed out, the Dragons didn't look all that vulnerable until they lost their starting all state QB.

[SLC13]

I am serious. I am not going to mention any kids names as is not fair to them but yes it is not as peaceful as it once was.

A few prominent seniors skipped the football banquet for a reason and it was not that they enrolled early at colleges.

The displeasure is not about his coaching but more about his leadership, the loss against Abilene was blamed on a specific player and a lack of senior leadership.

DP.......Given your description of events following the PO loss to Abileen, I found this little article in Sunday's DMN by Keith Whitmore rather interesting........

http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/060808dnspohsmemories.3341465.html

[SLC93]

DP.......Given you're discription of events following the the PO loss to Abileen, I found this little article in Sunday's DMN by Keith Whitmore rather interesting........

http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/060808dnspohsmemories.3341465.html

Yet another indicator that the source of any tension lies within a few of the players. The negative rumors of how Wasson handled this situation contradict everything else I've ever been privy to about the man.

[twcpfan1]

Yet another indicator of the source of any tension lying within few of the players. The negative rumors of how Wasson handled this situation contradict everything else I've ever been privy to about the man.

nm. i misread your post at first

[SLCDad]

Agreed. However, Dodge quickly moved the program up and won his first title in year 2 or 3. What if Wasson goes 5 years without a title and goes like 11-2, 9-3, 8-3, 12-1 & 7-4. Does in stay as HC? 47-13 pretty good record but he will always be judged to Dodge's accomplishments. Brence was measured to Kimbrough and didn't measure up. I think the coach after the coach that follows a legend always benefits more.

Coach Dodge accomplished some things that no coach in the history of Texas 5A football had ever done before . . . . and it may never be done again by any coach at any time.

Not really fair to judge any coach by that standard.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Coach Dodge accomplished some things that no coach in the history of Texas 5A football had ever done before . . . . and it may never be done again by any coach at any time.

Not really fair to judge any coach by that standard.

It might not be fair but this is the real world and not "OBAMA" world.

SLC has some mighty high expectations and they want titles, not 3rd round exits. Wasson will be judged fairly or unfairly by how he measures up to Dodge just as Dodge was compared to Ledbetter. It's human nature. Nothing wrong with that.

[DrEdward]

DP.......Given your description of events following the PO loss to Abileen, I found this little article in Sunday's DMN by Keith Whitmore rather interesting........

http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/060808dnspohsmemories.3341465.html

Thanks for the citation and the quote; I had not seen it previously. That sounds like the players and coachs who I know at Carroll.

[dragonpants]

DP.......Given your description of events following the PO loss to Abileen, I found this little article in Sunday's DMN by Keith Whitmore rather interesting........

http://www.hsgametime.com/dfw/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/060808dnspohsmemories.3341465.html

That may have been the case in a somewhat public setting at TS, my next door neighbor was on that team and he and his parents as well as a few of the current players had informed me what happened in a more private setting.

[SLC93]

That may have been the case in a somewhat public setting at TS, my next door neighbor was on that team and he and his parents as well as a few of the current players had informed me what happened in a more private setting.

I would caution you that parents can have their own agendas. As for the players, what is said in private should probably stay there. If any criticism of the senior leadership was expressed I can't say it was wrong. The timing may not have been the best but the words, it could be argued, were justified. As I've stated previously, there were many moments throughout the season I was less than thrilled with this group. Again, they overcame alot but they were their own worst enemies often. As a whole the senior class did not display the same level of determination they had as juniors. If that was questioned in a group setting, I can only imagine that it was for the betterment of all the underclassmen as much as to chastise the seniors. A seed being planted the second the off season began. If that was the case, I say it's a stroke of genius by Wasson.

[Maroondog]

This has been a most interesting topic. My take is this:

1. Wasson came into a no win situation. The incredible success of Dodge could hardly be duplicated, must less exceeded. If Wasson had won a championship he would have been seen as merely continuing what has been already been built.

2. The odds finally caught up with SLC. A bad bounce,fumble, interception, bad snap... Nobody wins em all. In other words, S*** Happens!

3. This is not meant as a slam, but based on some other posts here it seems that this years group might have been living with a sense of entitlement to the throne. Any team at any level that achieves that kind of success must be on top of their game always, because the opposition is going to give you more than their A game simply because of who you are.

4. I would hesitate to judge Wasson's performance until he has 3-5 seasons and then compare how his teams records stack up. How many teams wish they had last years SLC record instead of what they actually posted?

[CCHS77]

This has been a most interesting topic. My take is this:

1. Wasson came into a no win situation. The incredible success of Dodge could hardly be duplicated, must less exceeded. If Wasson had won a championship he would have been seen as merely continuing what has been already been built.

2. The odds finally caught up with SLC. A bad bounce,fumble, interception, bad snap... Nobody wins em all. In other words, S*** Happens!

3. This is not meant as a slam, but based on some other posts here it seems that this years group might have been living with a sense of entitlement to the throne. Any team at any level that achieves that kind of success must be on top of their game always, because the opposition is going to give you more than their A game simply because of who you are.

4. I would hesitate to judge Wasson's performance until he has 3-5 seasons and then compare how his teams records stack up. How many teams wish they had last years SLC record instead of what they actually posted?

Make sure you add injuries to #2, make sure that #3 clearly refers to the ’07 squad (School is out and summer discussions of "this year’s team" might be misconstrued) and I’d say you summarized what I think someone should "take away" from this thread! Well done!

[dragonpants]

I would caution you that parents can have their own agendas. As for the players, what is said in private should probably stay there. If any criticism of the senior leadership was expressed I can't say it was wrong. The timing may not have been the best but the words, it could be argued, were justified. As I've stated previously, there were many moments throughout the season I was less than thrilled with this group. Again, they overcame alot but they were their own worst enemies often. As a whole the senior class did not display the same level of determination they had as juniors. If that was questioned in a group setting, I can only imagine that it was for the betterment of all the underclassmen as much as to chastise the seniors. A seed being planted the second the off season began. If that was the case, I say it's a stroke of genius by Wasson.

My complaints are not about wins and losses. I agree that many parents have agendas. I was not present at any of these meetings.I have not been a Wasson fan since the announcement of him as HC, so my opinions are going to be a little jaded. I have commented enough on the process by which he was hired and to be honest I am sick of listening to myself, there was never a true search for anyone but him. I think that coaches have the responsibility to teach/display accountability and leadership and I do not feel that Hal is doing that. Last years team was a lot less disciplined than previous teams as evidenced by number of penalties and fumbles. That falls on coaching. I understand the kids play the games but that did not happen while Coach Dodge was running the show. Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's. I am a huge Dragon fan and that will not change I think we could have done a better job searching for a new coach.

[trojanbacker]

"Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's."

I'm not a thread highjacker, but would be interested in hearing why you think Trinity players would be more difficult to coach. Just curious.

[CCHS77]

I have not been a Wasson fan since the announcement of him as HC, so my opinions are going to be a little jaded.


a little?


I have commented enough on the process by which he was hired and to be honest I am sick of listening to myself,

I'd agree with that!

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Make sure you add injuries to #2, make sure that #3 clearly refers to the ’07 squad (School is out and summer discussions of "this year’s team" might be misconstrued) and I’d say you summarized what I think someone should "take away" from this thread! Well done!

I thought SLC didn't make excuses like injuries. You guys are slipping:D

[CCHS77]

I thought SLC didn't make excuses like injuries. You guys are slipping:D

Never had so many! Manure happens.

[drgnbkr]

My complaints are not about wins and losses. I agree that many parents have agendas. I was not present at any of these meetings.I have not been a Wasson fan since the announcement of him as HC, so my opinions are going to be a little jaded. I have commented enough on the process by which he was hired and to be honest I am sick of listening to myself, there was never a true search for anyone but him. I think that coaches have the responsibility to teach/display accountability and leadership and I do not feel that Hal is doing that. Last years team was a lot less disciplined than previous teams as evidenced by number of penalties and fumbles. That falls on coaching. I understand the kids play the games but that did not happen while Coach Dodge was running the show. Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's. I am a huge Dragon fan and that will not change I think we could have done a better job searching for a new coach.

There were many resumes received when Coach Dodge was hired. His was not one of them. Coach Ledbetter sought him out and made him an offer. It worked out pretty well and I believe it will work out just fine with Coach Wasson. I think it's great you are expressing your opinion on here. That is what a discussion board is for, but we don't all feel the same way. Patience my friend! :p

[DrEdward]

My complaints are not about wins and losses. I agree that many parents have agendas. I was not present at any of these meetings.I have not been a Wasson fan since the announcement of him as HC, so my opinions are going to be a little jaded. I have commented enough on the process by which he was hired and to be honest I am sick of listening to myself, there was never a true search for anyone but him. I think that coaches have the responsibility to teach/display accountability and leadership and I do not feel that Hal is doing that. Last years team was a lot less disciplined than previous teams as evidenced by number of penalties and fumbles. That falls on coaching. I understand the kids play the games but that did not happen while Coach Dodge was running the show. Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's. I am a huge Dragon fan and that will not change I think we could have done a better job searching for a new coach.

I am still at something of a loss as to the nature of your complaint. Clearly Carroll had a pretty successful thing going on the playing field when Todd decided to head up the road to Denton. The offensive scheme seemed to be working fairly well, given the talent that was present in the program, to say the very least, and the defense worked as well, even if it was not the most recent scheme in the world. Given those observations, there was not a whole lot of incentive to change what had been working. The question then became could Carroll find a coach who was comfortable with the schemes that Carroll had been using with some fair degree of success. That strikes me as a reasonable set of criteria to head into a coaching search with.

The position was posted in the usual places and obviously everybody knew that the head coaching job at Carroll was available. Predictably, given the success that Carroll had enjoyed, there were but a limited number of applicants for the job. (the expectations around here were a bit high. After all, if the new coach were to go 89-4 instead of 90-3, that would have been a drop off. Tough standard to satisfy) At least one was absolutely unqualified by any standard; others did not fit the criteria that Carroll was seeking. More of the more desirable who was invited to interview had only recently accpeted another position. The finalists were interviewed and a decision was made to hire Hal. Wasson may well have had the inside track of the finalists, as he was clearly very familiar with the Carroll program and was experienced in the offensive schemes of the Dragons.

So what additional steps or searchs would have been appropriate? There are a large number of Steve Lineweaver fans around here, as an example, but Steve did not apply and is quite happy at Trinity with very good reason. G.A. Moore would have been an interesting choice, but G.A. didn't apply for the position either and as successful as Celina has been (Pilot Point too) it is a very different operation that Carroll's. So again, I am simply not sure what you would have done differently.

[SLC93]

My complaints are not about wins and losses. I agree that many parents have agendas. I was not present at any of these meetings.I have not been a Wasson fan since the announcement of him as HC, so my opinions are going to be a little jaded. I have commented enough on the process by which he was hired and to be honest I am sick of listening to myself, there was never a true search for anyone but him. I think that coaches have the responsibility to teach/display accountability and leadership and I do not feel that Hal is doing that. Last years team was a lot less disciplined than previous teams as evidenced by number of penalties and fumbles. That falls on coaching. I understand the kids play the games but that did not happen while Coach Dodge was running the show. Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's. I am a huge Dragon fan and that will not change I think we could have done a better job searching for a new coach.


To be fair, I'm also on record as not being fully satisfied with our coaching search. I have stated that repeatedly. I always felt that Carroll did itself no favor by appearing so zoned in on Wasson. Some of that was the media making a natural connection but Carroll did nothing to damper it. That said the sheer success of the program kept many applicants from even applying. That's one thing Wasson has never gotten enough credit for. The fact that he applied, interviewed for & accepted this job speaks volumes, to me. He knew the pressures, expectations and nature of this job and took it. Many coaches across the country cannot claim to have the same conviction. I wish we had been able to interview more quality coaches. That's just a best practice. The facts of the search did not allow for it, however. Also undersold is the challenge Wasson had once he accepted the position. He had to replace most of the staff, including both coordinators. It had to be done quickly so that the off season could be maximized and spring ball wouldn not be in any jeopardy. He assembled a very fine staff, in my opinion. The fact still remained that, once assembled, this staff had to get to know 300 plus kids. More importantly, those kids had to get to know them, to hear their voices, to trust their decisions. Remember, most every player in the program had only heard one voice prior to last year. That voice was now in Denton. Now this staff has to deal with the facts. There is a huge winning streak to protect. A huge game with a national power looming. A senior class that won a state title as juniors returning. Are you starting to feel the true totality of last season's transition? These are not even all the factors that went into last season. We have yet to discuss the players who were dismissed from the team for infractions or the ones suspended for the same. What of all the injuries this team worked around and through? How about the attitude many of this teams seniors chose to display? Like it or not, Wasson and his staff dealt with more in their first 9 months on the job than TD had in his previous 7 years. In the end, a very solid season was still produced. There will never be another Ledbetter. There will never be another Dodge. To say that Wasson will not carve out his own niche is short sighted and irresponsible, in my opinion. Despite the frustrations of last season, I believe much was shown that points to a continued, positive direction for the Dragons.

[SLC93]

Never had so many! Manure happens.

Yup!:cool:

[SLC93]

I am still at something of a loss as to the nature of your complaint. Clearly Carroll had a pretty successful thing going on the playing field when Todd decided to head up the road to Denton. The offensive scheme seemed to be working fairly well, given the talent that was present in the program, to say the very least, and the defense worked as well, even if it was not the most recent scheme in the world. Given those observations, there was not a whole lot of incentive to change what had been working. The question then became could Carroll find a coach who was comfortable with the schemes that Carroll had been using with some fair degree of success. That strikes me as a reasonable set of criteria to head into a coaching search with.

The position was posted in the usual places and obviously everybody knew that the head coaching job at Carroll was available. Predictably, given the success that Carroll had enjoyed, there were but a limited number of applicants for the job. (the expectations around here were a bit high. After all, if the new coach were to go 89-4 instead of 90-3, that would have been a drop off. Tough standard to satisfy) At least one was absolutely unqualified by any standard; others did not fit the criteria that Carroll was seeking. More of the more desirable who was invited to interview had only recently accpeted another position. The finalists were interviewed and a decision was made to hire Hal. Wasson may well have had the inside track of the finalists, as he was clearly very familiar with the Carroll program and was experienced in the offensive schemes of the Dragons.

So what additional steps or searchs would have been appropriate? There are a large number of Steve Lineweaver fans around here, as an example, but Steve did not apply and is quite happy at Trinity with very good reason. G.A. Moore would have been an interesting choice, but G.A. didn't apply for the position either and as successful as Celina has been (Pilot Point too) it is a very different operation that Carroll's. So again, I am simply not sure what you would have done differently.

Very well put, as usual, Doc.

[dragonpants]

To be fair, I'm also on record as not being fully satisfied with our coaching search. I have stated that repeatedly. I always felt that Carroll did itself no favor by appearing so zoned in on Wasson. Some of that was the media making a natural connection but Carroll did nothing to damper it. That said the sheer success of the program kept many applicants from even applying. That's one thing Wasson has never gotten enough credit for. The fact that he applied, interviewed for & accepted this job speaks volumes, to me. He knew the pressures, expectations and nature of this job and took it. Many coaches across the country cannot claim to have the same conviction. I wish we had been able to interview more quality coaches. That's just a best practice. The facts of the search did not allow for it, however. Also undersold is the challenge Wasson had once he accepted the position. He had to replace most of the staff, including both coordinators. It had to be done quickly so that the off season could be maximized and spring ball wouldn not be in any jeopardy. He assembled a very fine staff, in my opinion. The fact still remained that, once assembled, this staff had to get to know 300 plus kids. More importantly, those kids had to get to know them, to hear their voices, to trust their decisions. Remember, most every player in the program had only heard one voice prior to last year. That voice was now in Denton. Now this staff has to deal with the facts. There is a huge winning streak to protect. A huge game with a national power looming. A senior class that won a state title as juniors returning. Are you starting to feel the true totality of last season's transition? These are not even all the factors that went into last season. We have yet to discuss the players who were dismissed from the team for infractions or the ones suspended for the same. What of all the injuries this team worked around and through? How about the attitude many of this teams seniors chose to display? Like it or not, Wasson and his staff dealt with more in their first 9 months on the job than TD had in his previous 7 years. In the end, a very solid season was still produced. There will never be another Ledbetter. There will never be another Dodge. To say that Wasson will not carve out his own niche is short sighted and irresponsible, in my opinion. Despite the frustrations of last season, I believe much was shown that points to a continued, positive direction for the Dragons.

Again I am not arguing wins and losses. I do not expect the Dragons to go undefeated until I die. Yes he had a difficult situation to walk into, what new coach doesn't? Yes he knows the system so the learning curve was shortened. I am questioning why his assistants at other coaching stops drop like flies and NOT to be a HC elsewhere. Then I would say he is a great mentor. I do not expect him to be Todd Dodge or anyone else for that matter. When you meet him or see him interviewed does he instill the confidence that is expected in a head coach whether at Carroll or another program. Do the kids look up to him and respect him for reasons other than he is their coach.
The kids I have spoken with have not indicated that they feel/felt that way.
Nothing would make me happier than for him to Protect the Tradition and continue to build our great program. That is what we all want isn't it? If you would all rather I be the stereotypical Dragon fan, for those outside of our "cult"...lol and just blindly tout that he is a wonderful coach than you have the wrong guy. I support this program to ridiculous levels, according to my friends and associates and that will not change whether we are undefeated or lose every game. I have the damn Dragon tattooed on my body for god sakes.
One season is not enough to evaluate a coach on any front and I know I may not be the most patient person. So for those of you that disagree with me I hope you are right and I do not want to piss off Dr. Ed, since he is on the council.

[dragonpants]

"Trinity makes a less mistakes than we did last year and I am guessing his players are bit more difficult to coach as Lineweaver did not inherit a program similar to Carroll's."

I'm not a thread highjacker, but would be interested in hearing why you think Trinity players would be more difficult to coach. Just curious.

Grammatical error, Lineweaver did not inherit a program in the shape that Todd Dodge did, so my point was when he took over the program it was more difficult than the situation Todd walked into. Do not read too much into it Trojanbacker. I am a fan of your program and went to see them play during the playoffs the past three years. Of course 2 years ago was a little easier since we played each other.

[gasman]

SLC has lost some its luster. A program just can't keep that type of effort/run for those many years without having a let down. The way they lost last year on a fumble in the playoffs I think is the writing on the wall that this program is going to come back down to earth. They will still be a very good team but nothing near what they were duriung that 5 year run. Wasson is a solid coach but doesn't have the aura that Dodge had. He'll keep it going pretty strong for the next couple of years but everyone will see a gradual slide downward of the draggon program.

check what happened to judson once their HC left. Also with Plano when the program went from Kimbrough to Brence. Plano's best stretch was 1980 through 91 Averaged close to 12 wins a season. (Kimbroughs last year). Then Brence took over did well his first 4 years. (2 title appearances, 1 title) Then the bottom fell out in 96 to 5-6 and from their Plano was mired in medocrity until the 05 and 07 seasons rolled around. 05 was due to outstanding talent, 07 was due to finally opening up the offense about 8 years to late.

SLC is positoned for the same fate.


SLC will always be a strong team. I have never seen so much dedication and respect among players and coaches as I have at SLC. SLC will always be in the spotlight and I know there will be several teams wishing for their fall. As for Hal Wasson, he is a very good coach and he will surprise many of you. He did an outstanding job and will continue to do so. SLC will always bounce back because they have alot of heart and character.

Goooooooooo!!! SLC

[Maxthedog]

I have know Hal for many years. Dicipline and execution are his stong points. I think SLC93 might have validity to some of his points. Wasson came into a situation that was WAY more complex than I think we realize. Yes, he should have had stong SR leadership, yes there should have dicipline due to just that fact. There was also the fact that this team was Todd Dodge's team, AND QB'ed Todd's son. Was there some no-so-happy-campers that Dodge left, it's possible. By years end, the SR leadership had started to make the transition from A 'Dodge' team to a 'Wasson' team. I was seriously disappointed in the performance of this team early on in 2007. I was seriously impressed on how these kids man-upped and got it done. Take the injury to Riley in the Abby-lean game away, who know how far this bunch would have gone. At that time, SLC was playing very dominant football. My bet is, had SLC won state or been in the state game vs a very very strong Katy bunch, this discussion would not be happening. Hal was not going to come in, 1st year and 'read the riot act' to a Sr laden team that was not, ah,,up to his standards. That's not his style. I bet my New Bass boat, you will see the team that we have come to expect, in 2008+. Good things are ahead my fellow Dragons, very good things!

[twcpfan1]

I have know Hal for many years. Dicipline and execution are his stong points. I think SLC93 might have validity to some of his points. Wasson came into a situation that was WAY more complex than I think we realize. Yes, he should have had stong SR leadership, yes there should have dicipline due to just that fact. There was also the fact that this team was Todd Dodge's team, AND QB'ed Todd's son. Was there some no-so-happy-campers that Dodge left, it's possible. By years end, the SR leadership had started to make the transition from A 'Dodge' team to a 'Wasson' team. I was seriously disappointed in the performance of this team early on in 2007. I was seriously impressed on how these kids man-upped and got it done. Take the injury to Riley in the Abby-lean game away, who know how far this bunch would have gone. At that time, SLC was playing very dominant football. My bet is, had SLC won state or been in the state game vs a very very strong Katy bunch, this discussion would not be happening. Hal was not going to come in, 1st year and 'read the riot act' to a Sr laden team that was not, ah,,up to his standards. That's not his style. I bet my New Bass boat, you will see the team that we have come to expect, in 2008+. Good things are ahead my fellow Dragons, very good things!

nice of you to inform us that you bought a new boat. btw, is there such a thing as a catfish boat or tilapia boat? :D

[drgnbkr]

nice of you to inform us that you bought a new boat. btw, is there such a thing as a catfish boat or tilapia boat? :D

Bubba had a shrimpin boat, but he left it to Forrest when he died....

[trojanbacker]

I've always been partial to the gravy boat.

[bigdaddydog]

I've always been partial to the gravy boat.

Mark me down for the Love Boat. :o


~

[Maxthedog]

As a matter of fact YES: I was thinking about Using shrimp to catch catfish after a nice meal of Tilapia at AJ's fish house(Emory). I thought about all the gravy I spent on my love boat and how it caused a lack of love at the house. So now it's actually a house boat. Aka Motor Homeboat.


The Comedy Corner has nothing on this bunch of Sharks. :)

[DrEdward]

Again I am not arguing wins and losses. I do not expect the Dragons to go undefeated until I die. Yes he had a difficult situation to walk into, what new coach doesn't? Yes he knows the system so the learning curve was shortened. I am questioning why his assistants at other coaching stops drop like flies and NOT to be a HC elsewhere. Then I would say he is a great mentor. I do not expect him to be Todd Dodge or anyone else for that matter. When you meet him or see him interviewed does he instill the confidence that is expected in a head coach whether at Carroll or another program. Do the kids look up to him and respect him for reasons other than he is their coach.
The kids I have spoken with have not indicated that they feel/felt that way.
Nothing would make me happier than for him to Protect the Tradition and continue to build our great program. That is what we all want isn't it? If you would all rather I be the stereotypical Dragon fan, for those outside of our "cult"...lol and just blindly tout that he is a wonderful coach than you have the wrong guy. I support this program to ridiculous levels, according to my friends and associates and that will not change whether we are undefeated or lose every game. I have the damn Dragon tattooed on my body for god sakes.
One season is not enough to evaluate a coach on any front and I know I may not be the most patient person. So for those of you that disagree with me I hope you are right and I do not want to piss off Dr. Ed, since he is on the council.

I'm not mad or anything; you are certainly entitled to your opinion as to the process. I was simply trying to understand what additional steps you would have gone through in selecting a coach. Evidently one of your criteria is that Wasson's assistants elsewhere should have gone on to be head coaches. I beleive that one or two of them have done so. Perhaps someone currently at the Ridge could enlighten us some more as to the situation Coach Wasson encountered there. I am under the impression that when Hal left the Ridge to come to Carroll, he left them in a much stronger coaching position that when he arrived. Turnover among coachig staff is not at all uncommon when a new head coach shows up. It happened at Carroll when Dodge arrived as well. As an example, Coach Rushing had coached the Carroll offensive line through several state championships, was highly regarded, plus he was highly thought of as a math teacher. Not a bad combination, yet Todd replaced him with Todd's own guy. So turnover is not necessarily surprising.

In any event, I am not mad at you, just trying to understand.

[SLC93]

I'm not mad or anything; you are certainly entitled to your opinion as to the process. I was simply trying to understand what additional steps you would have gone through in selecting a coach. Evidently one of your criteria is that Wasson's assistants elsewhere should have gone on to be head coaches. I beleive that one or two of them have done so. Perhaps someone currently at the Ridge could enlighten us some more as to the situation Coach Wasson encountered there. I am under the impression that when Hal left the Ridge to come to Carroll, he left them in a much stronger coaching position that when he arrived. Turnover among coachig staff is not at all uncommon when a new head coach shows up. It happened at Carroll when Dodge arrived as well. As an example, Coach Rushing had coached the Carroll offensive line through several state championships, was highly regarded, plus he was highly thought of as a math teacher. Not a bad combination, yet Todd replaced him with Todd's own guy. So turnover is not necessarily surprising.

In any event, I am not mad at you, just trying to understand.

Coach Rushing was greatness.

[dragonpants]

I'm not mad or anything; you are certainly entitled to your opinion as to the process. I was simply trying to understand what additional steps you would have gone through in selecting a coach. Evidently one of your criteria is that Wasson's assistants elsewhere should have gone on to be head coaches. I beleive that one or two of them have done so. Perhaps someone currently at the Ridge could enlighten us some more as to the situation Coach Wasson encountered there. I am under the impression that when Hal left the Ridge to come to Carroll, he left them in a much stronger coaching position that when he arrived. Turnover among coachig staff is not at all uncommon when a new head coach shows up. It happened at Carroll when Dodge arrived as well. As an example, Coach Rushing had coached the Carroll offensive line through several state championships, was highly regarded, plus he was highly thought of as a math teacher. Not a bad combination, yet Todd replaced him with Todd's own guy. So turnover is not necessarily surprising.

In any event, I am not mad at you, just trying to understand.

First of all the comment about not wanting to make you mad was a joke, of course I have a lot of respect for you and what you do for the program for all of the sports teams and I really do not think anything I would post on here would make you that upset. Your point about turnover among coaches is valid.As SLC93 pointed out Todd did not apply for the Carroll job but was offered by Coach Ledbetter. I had heard from somewhat reliable people that Joey Florence was very interested and is an old friend of TD but was told by Todd that it was a done deal before the process started. I cannot name a person that once Hal's name came up thought that anyone else would be hired. I thought we could have done more of a search and at least interviewed some more qualified candidates and if Hal was the best guy then great. There are plenty of teams running the spread so finding someone to carry on with the system would not have been that difficult, IMO. Someone posted on here a while back that when Hal left Carroll to go to Fossil Ridge he left on bad terms but I know nothing about that as was before my time. I moved in here in '05.

[dragon]

Dr. Ed, one alternate route of selecting the new HC was utilizing the resources of a search firm. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say after Irwin(Erwin? sp) and Wasson the talent pool in the applicant list dropped of dramatically for one of the premier jobs in the country on the HS level.

A search firm can go solicit individuals who may or may not have interest in the job. Also, some have said a search firm doesn't have to abide by FOIA requests by media, sounds reasonable, but don't know the validity.

Bottom line, we have Wasson, hopefully he can produce. He's certainly an approachable guy. Hopefully, the jitters of last season have worn off and he'll be more composed in the driver's seat. Spring ball looked good.

[SLC13]

.......I had heard from somewhat reliable people that Joey Florence was very interested and is an old friend of TD but was told by Todd that it was a done deal before the process started.......
Wow........DP, do you not think about and question things people tell you??

Even if you believe that the hiring of Hal Wasson was "a done deal", do you really think that Joey Florence would have been given only a cursory interview for the position?? Wouldn't you think that it is more likely that being a friend of Todd Dodge, Coach Florence would have been given every consideration for the job, had he applied??

.......I cannot name a person that once Hal's name came up thought that anyone else would be hired. I thought we could have done more of a search and at least interviewed some more qualified candidates and if Hal was the best guy then great. There are plenty of teams running the spread so finding someone to carry on with the system would not have been that difficult, IMO.......

That was likely due to the applicant pool. If Coach Florence's name was in the mix, there would have been lots of discussion among Dragon fans.....but oh yeah, he didn't apply!!

If it's so easy, think about this.......every coach in 5-5A ran the spread last year, do you want any of them??


.......ISomeone posted on here a while back that when Hal left Carroll to go to Fossil Ridge he left on bad terms but I know nothing about that as was before my time. I moved in here in '05.

and yet you chose to repeat something that you admit you know nothing about.........:eek:

Do you really think that if Coach Wasson had left after 2002 on bad terms that he would have been hired back as HC in 2007??

[dragonsdaddy]

Wow........DP, do you not think about and question things people tell you??

Even if you believe that the hiring of Hal Wasson was "a done deal", do you really think that Joey Florence would have been given only a cursory interview for the position?? Wouldn't you think that it is more likely that being a friend of Todd Dodge, Coach Florence would have been given every consideration for the job, had he applied??



If Coach Florence's name was in the mix, there would have been lots of discussion among Dragon fans.....but oh yeah, he didn't apply!!

If it's so easy, think about this.......every coach in 5-5A ran the spread last year, do you want any of them??




and yet you chose to repeat something that you admit you know nothing about.........:eek:

Do you really think that if Coach Wasson had left after 2002 on bad terms that he would have been hired back as HC in 2007??

i think the dmn public records effort to ferret out the names of the applicants reduced significantly who put their names in the hat. there were many off-the-record inquiries, and since joflo had a meeting/lunch or 2 with td shortly before the applications were locked, the referenced convo could have occurred. at this point, we are trying to swim upstream, and the hc is hal wasson. for better or worse, i hope he is successful. i was pretty close in the 00-05 years, and i never heard anything negative concerning hw.

[dragonsfan]

All I have to say is:

Thank you Lord for the short time left to high school football. The end of the NBA championship is upon us. The College World Series will soon pass, then the Tour de France will, for a short time, entertain us and then the only reason for living will return! How about them Dragons.

[DrEdward]

Dr. Ed, one alternate route of selecting the new HC was utilizing the resources of a search firm. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say after Irwin(Erwin? sp) and Wasson the talent pool in the applicant list dropped of dramatically for one of the premier jobs in the country on the HS level.

A search firm can go solicit individuals who may or may not have interest in the job. Also, some have said a search firm doesn't have to abide by FOIA requests by media, sounds reasonable, but don't know the validity.

Bottom line, we have Wasson, hopefully he can produce. He's certainly an approachable guy. Hopefully, the jitters of last season have worn off and he'll be more composed in the driver's seat. Spring ball looked good.

Bob Ledbetter has a search firm, so Carroll indirectly had the benefits of one in any event. Cerainly if any of the Carroll administration had known in advance that the DMN would go around insisting on freedom of information requests in order to publish the names of the candidiates for the head job, a formal adoption of such a firm would likely have been considered. But at the time, it simply never occured to anyone that such an intrusion would be likely. Furthermore, the search firm might have been able to keep the names confidential until they were turned over to the district, then they would have become public in any event - at least those names which represented the finalists. If we assume those would have been the most qualified, it is still not clear that all those so identified would have wanted their name published. I agree with DD that the efforts by that bunch at the morning news likely reduced the number of applicants, especially the more qualified ones.

[TXFOOSBALL]

Coach Rushing was greatness.

You can say that again...It was so depressing to see him demoted to basically the "equipment manager" our senior year. Great man. Great teacher. Can u believe he was a sprinter in HS?:eek:

I miss middle school football with coach rushing and coach jones. You skillet head!

[dragonpants]

Wow........DP, do you not think about and question things people tell you??

Even if you believe that the hiring of Hal Wasson was "a done deal", do you really think that Joey Florence would have been given only a cursory interview for the position?? Wouldn't you think that it is more likely that being a friend of Todd Dodge, Coach Florence would have been given every consideration for the job, had he applied??



That was likely due to the applicant pool. If Coach Florence's name was in the mix, there would have been lots of discussion among Dragon fans.....but oh yeah, he didn't apply!!

If it's so easy, think about this.......every coach in 5-5A ran the spread last year, do you want any of them??




and yet you chose to repeat something that you admit you know nothing about.........:eek:

Do you really think that if Coach Wasson had left after 2002 on bad terms that he would have been hired back as HC in 2007??

OK here we go.
Would you want a cursory interview, sort of like kissing your sister isn't it. Come on down and waste a bunch of everyone's time including your own. The n you have everyone asking why you did not get the job. Also your comment about lots of discussions about Dragons fans discussing the potential hiring of a coach, no one asked my opinion nor did I expect anyone to.

In terms of him not applying, TD did not apply either. Dr. Ed brought up a good point that the DMN did us no favors by demanding that all applicants names be listed.

No I would not want any of the coaches in 5-5A, and I have not
insinuated that running the spread was easy, however there are lots of teams running it and the Dragons are not the only team in the state that run it effectively so my point is that Hal Wasson is not the only person on the face of the earth that could run the offense.

In terms of repeating the comment about Hal leaving on bad terms, that was a question as again I was not here, but another Dragon fan posted it during the period that the "coaching search" was going on.

I was under the impression that I was allowed to have opinions that may not be popular with everyone. I am die hard Buffalo Bills fans,(it is ok to mock me) and yes it is painful but I am not a blind follower. I do not believe every move they make is a correct one. As their history will tell you they make lots of bad decisions.

Just because we all passionately support the same team does not mean we are going to agree on everything. If that was the case none of us would be logged on here.

So in my opinion we are now beating a dead horse. We can just agree to disagree and be rabid fans together. Nothing would make me happier than for Hal to be the greatest coach in Carroll history.

The Dave Campbell book is out today so my evening is set and after reading that I am confident there will be plenty to discuss.

[SLC13]

............So in my opinion we are now beating a dead horse. We can just agree to disagree and be rabid fans together...........

On this point, we are in 100% agreement!!

[slcdragonfan]

...I was under the impression that I was allowed to have opinions that may not be popular with everyone. I am die hard Buffalo Bills fans,(it is ok to mock me) and yes it is painful but I am not a blind follower. I do not believe every move they make is a correct one. As their history will tell you they make lots of bad decisions...

Having been a die-hard Houston Oilers fan for many years, with season ticket when I lived there, I for one cannot make fun of any Buffalo Bills fan. The greatest comeback in the history of pro ball with one of my favorite QB's (who played for a championship on a Houston team, can you name it? :) ) playing for them allows me no room for sneering. I was living in Oklahoma at the time, and that game caused me to pretty much give up on pro ball for the next 10 years (well, that, and coverage of only the Sooners).

But that isn't about the Dragons, is it?:confused:

Yeah, lets get past all of this and watch for the new season. This year and next year will let us know a lot about what we have.

[dragonpants]

On this point, we are in 100% agreement!!

Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ran out at lunch and got the new Dave Campbell Texas Football and I am entrenched. Fortunately my VP is as crazy about high school football as I am.

[dragonpants]

Having been a die-hard Houston Oilers fan for many years, with season ticket when I lived there, I for one cannot make fun of any Buffalo Bills fan. The greatest comeback in the history of pro ball with one of my favorite QB's (who played for a championship on a Houston team, can you name it? :) ) playing for them allows me no room for sneering. I was living in Oklahoma at the time, and that game caused me to pretty much give up on pro ball for the next 10 years (well, that, and coverage of only the Sooners).

But that isn't about the Dragons, is it?:confused:

Yeah, lets get past all of this and watch for the new season. This year and next year will let us know a lot about what we have.

Jim Kelly, when he played in the USFL.
I am ready for the season to start NOW

[slcdragonfan]

yep, Jim Kelly and the Houston Gamblers I believe.