Do prospects turn into wins?

[The Warrior]

SGP currently has many prospects, but as juniors that didn't equate into wins.

Does having many D1 prospects out-weigh a TEAM of "Good" player that play as one?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[dada]

SGP currently has many prospects, but as juniors that didn't equate into wins.

Does having many D1 prospects out-weigh a TEAM of "Good" player that play as one?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'll take a well coached TEAM over a team with several prospects anyday. Great example is Round Rock vs Lufkin year before last.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Remember the Dallas Carter team that had, atleast, 15 D-1 signees? That particular team went 5-5.

[bake34]

This year Garland had 6 kids go D1:

Agheyere LSU
Walker OU
Wilson Buffalo
Ben Rice
Menner AirForce
Williams Kentucky

We went 3-7...

[bake34]

As coach George Allen used to say...40 guys playing together can't lose....give me a team of good players that play together over a team of studs playing for themselves anyday...

WARNING: If the kids get caught up in "where are you going to school?" and don't enjoy the "now"...they're fixing to get beat....

[fireaway]

Well there is one example...that i can refer you to. The Miami Northwestern game. I think that watching the game...you will see that Southlake was very close and even in the lead for a time...

Now for your answer...the fact that these Miami guys were good TEAM or good athletes didnt really persuade me to believe they had the win in them the whole time... But the mistakes that SLC had....Trey's fumble that was recovered by miami....the undersized cornerbacks.....and the blown coverages especially on that one receiver's easy touchdown catch....these are the things that brought Carroll down...nothing else Miami had heigth tho ill give them that....but Ill bet that without SLC's mistakes...SLC wins 4 out 5 times...

[fireaway]

Well there is one example...that i can refer you to. The Miami Northwestern game. I think that watching the game...you will see that Southlake was very close and even in the lead for a time...

Now for your answer...the fact that these Miami guys were good TEAM or good athletes didnt really persuade me to believe they had the win in them the whole time... But the mistakes that SLC had....Trey's fumble that was recovered by miami....the undersized cornerbacks.....and the blown coverages especially on that one receiver's easy touchdown catch....these are the things that brought Carroll down...nothing else Miami had heigth tho ill give them that....but Ill bet that without SLC's mistakes...SLC wins 4 out 5 times...

[TrojanHorse03]

SGP currently has many prospects, but as juniors that didn't equate into wins.

Does having many D1 prospects out-weigh a TEAM of "Good" player that play as one?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm glad you brought this up Warrior because it will alow me to go on record in saying that I think SGP will be an underrated team next year that will bounce back and make waves with a similar season to 2005 but maybe going farther. I'll also think Cedar Hill will also be strong next year(I really like the Ron Mendoza hire) making the SGP-CH matchup a pivotal one, mark it.

[Wagnerdad]

Well there is one example...that i can refer you to. The Miami Northwestern game. I think that watching the game...you will see that Southlake was very close and even in the lead for a time...

Now for your answer...the fact that these Miami guys were good TEAM or good athletes didnt really persuade me to believe they had the win in them the whole time... But the mistakes that SLC had....Trey's fumble that was recovered by miami....the undersized cornerbacks.....and the blown coverages especially on that one receiver's easy touchdown catch....these are the things that brought Carroll down...nothing else Miami had heigth tho ill give them that....but Ill bet that without SLC's mistakes...SLC wins 4 out 5 times...

Saw that game! The Miami guys were too talented for the SLC guys. Deion Sanders said it best at halftime. Florida has superior athletes and Texas has superior teams! Even when SLC was in the lead, you could tell Northwestern had another gear. When they went to that gear it wasn't anything I think any team in America could have done. If you want to see a great visual about them, get Year of the Bull, a great documentary. It starts off with the PRINCIPAL saying, "We don't have a football team, we have a football program!! Then it cuts to guys sprinting pulling sleds! When you have committment like that from the top guy, watch out!! Talent wins games, especially when you get older and go to the next level. There are just too many questions to ask regarding that situation. How's the coaching? Are they small at the interior positions? Do they lack speed? How long has the kid been playing, and last but not least does the team have any leadership on the field?

[SLC93]

They do but high school, more than any other level, is about coaching and the program.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

A championship mindset and team concept wins games. There are many teams that have been successful for having great athletes, many that had sub-par talent but great team chemistry and some who had a bit of everything but not too much all around, and won. Teams like Smithson Valley, Converse Judson, Plano, Permian and Katy don't yield 5-15 D1 prospects every year, but those programs have a tradition of winning. On the flipside, teams like Skyline, Carter, Yates, Houston Madison, Longview and plenty of the HISD, DISD, Fort Bend and Klein schools are known for having tons of great athletes but not having a tradition of deep runs into the playoffs or State Championship appearances.

Now that I've said that, let me also add.. teams like Garland HS, North Shore, Lufkin and La Marque are the programs that stand out in both great football play and a deep pool of D1 prospects. And all 4 schools have won a State Championship since 2000.

You also have to look at the coaching staffs. When you think Katy, CJ, Permian and Plano you think excellent systems and HC's. When you think Carter or Yates you think... who is the HC again?? It's kind of like understanding Grambling State as a great football program in its' division and level, but basically non-excistent to the D1 level. Houston ISD and Dallas ISD schools are nototrious for having unsteady coaching staffs w/ very basic (RB to the right... RB to the left) systems that are easily handled. Take it as you want it.. it's the truth.

A lot turns into wins on the HS level.. great athleticism can be a very small aspect of the whole game. Then again, great athleticism under excellent coaching can yield legendary Championship runs... see North Shore of 2003 and the SLC teams of the 21st Century.

[CedarHillDad]

I'll take a well coached TEAM over a team with several prospects anyday. Great example is Round Rock vs Lufkin year before last.

+1

[fireaway]

Saw that game! The Miami guys were too talented for the SLC guys. Deion Sanders said it best at halftime. Florida has superior athletes and Texas has superior teams! Even when SLC was in the lead, you could tell Northwestern had another gear. When they went to that gear it wasn't anything I think any team in America could have done. If you want to see a great visual about them, get Year of the Bull, a great documentary. It starts off with the PRINCIPAL saying, "We don't have a football team, we have a football program!! Then it cuts to guys sprinting pulling sleds! When you have committment like that from the top guy, watch out!! Talent wins games, especially when you get older and go to the next level. There are just too many questions to ask regarding that situation. How's the coaching? Are they small at the interior positions? Do they lack speed? How long has the kid been playing, and last but not least does the team have any leadership on the field?

then u must have not seen the same game that i saw.....cuz when i saw brainard catch his pass....and cantu catch his pass for touchdowns....miami didnt look like they had another gear...................thats what I thought....the fact is......and ill use lufkin for example.....where teams like SLC win with perfection... SLC has had the same caliber athletes forever...here and there a few mis matches and its never a problem....but all in all....if SL would have not played without mistakes...in either of the lufkin games.....we see the same loss Honestly....i dont really see how this helps....the fact that we limit wins to good athletes in the argument has been played out....

in my experience...prospects can HELP with wins....but can also help with egos and selfishness......

haha like i haven't seen the year of the bull, sir, I played for SLC just last year goofball....ive had more bulls info in my ear than i care for...and let me say....they made less mistakes.....but that has nothing to do with the fact that they are prospects

[The Warrior]

then u must have not seen the same game that i saw.....cuz when i saw brainard catch his pass....and cantu catch his pass for touchdowns....miami didnt look like they had another gear...................thats what I thought....the fact is......and ill use lufkin for example.....where teams like SLC win with perfection... SLC has had the same caliber athletes forever...here and there a few mis matches and its never a problem....but all in all....if SL would have not played without mistakes...in either of the lufkin games.....we see the same loss Honestly....i dont really see how this helps....the fact that we limit wins to good athletes in the argument has been played out....

in my experience...prospects can HELP with wins....but can also help with egos and selfishness......
haha like i haven't seen the year of the bull, sir, I played for SLC just last year goofball....ive had more bulls info in my ear than i care for...and let me say....they made less mistakes.....but that has nothing to do with the fact that they are prospects

The egos and "me" attitude often is the problem, when they get the "Big Head" and sign early they forget the players who will never play college, but will be needed for a sucessful senior season.:cry

[Wagnerdad]

then u must have not seen the same game that i saw.....cuz when i saw brainard catch his pass....and cantu catch his pass for touchdowns....miami didnt look like they had another gear...................thats what I thought....the fact is......and ill use lufkin for example.....where teams like SLC win with perfection... SLC has had the same caliber athletes forever...here and there a few mis matches and its never a problem....but all in all....if SL would have not played without mistakes...in either of the lufkin games.....we see the same loss Honestly....i dont really see how this helps....the fact that we limit wins to good athletes in the argument has been played out....

in my experience...prospects can HELP with wins....but can also help with egos and selfishness......

haha like i haven't seen the year of the bull, sir, I played for SLC just last year goofball....ive had more bulls info in my ear than i care for...and let me say....they made less mistakes.....but that has nothing to do with the fact that they are prospects

Good for you! If you were to look at that game unbiased you would have seen that SLC just did not have the atheletes to compete with Northwestern. Sometimes it's difficult to be honestly unbiased, I understand. The reason SLC made some mistakes is because of the athleticism of Northwestern!! Great teams capitalize on mistakes, as Northwestern did. SLC is a great program, they just saw a better team that day. As indicated by the score. I'm not downing SLC by no means. Most of the great athletes that I that I know are even better people. Yes there are some A**holes but those guys a few and far apart. As far as Brainard and Cantu, they played well. They just couldn't get loose for the score after that! My college coach said it best " In high school, all of you guys are the stars from your school where 1 or 2 of you guys stuck out. Here I've got 87 stars."

[ftballin11]

Good for you! If you were to look at that game unbiased you would have seen that SLC just did not have the atheletes to compete with Northwestern. Sometimes it's difficult to be honestly unbiased, I understand. The reason SLC made some mistakes is because of the athleticism of Northwestern!! Great teams capitalize on mistakes, as Northwestern did. SLC is a great program, they just saw a better team that day. As indicated by the score. I'm not downing SLC by no means. Most of the great athletes that I that I know are even better people. Yes there are some A**holes but those guys a few and far apart. As far as Brainard and Cantu, they played well. They just couldn't get loose for the score after that! My college coach said it best " In high school, all of you guys are the stars from your school where 1 or 2 of you guys stuck out. Here I've got 87 stars."

Im unbiased from katy. I truly think SLC was the better team. That early in the year a team has to waqrk out the kinks. Opposed to talent is always there like miami. SLC had too many uncharacteristic mistakes like tre fumbling inside the 10, The backup throwing a pick in the endzone, and the blown coverage for a touch down. The only way MNW scored was on a big play, that the inexperienced secondary gave up.

Bottom line SlC almost lost there next game to rockwall, if it had been playoff time SLC would have handled them with relative ease.

[rodjohns]

Im unbiased from katy. I truly think SLC was the better team. That early in the year a team has to waqrk out the kinks. Opposed to talent is always there like miami. SLC had too many uncharacteristic mistakes like tre fumbling inside the 10, The backup throwing a pick in the endzone, and the blown coverage for a touch down. The only way MNW scored was on a big play, that the inexperienced secondary gave up.

Bottom line SlC almost lost there next game to rockwall, if it had been playoff time SLC would have handled them with relative ease.

Maybe I am wrong but I did not see SLC in the State Finals this year.

[SLC93]

Im unbiased from katy. I truly think SLC was the better team. That early in the year a team has to waqrk out the kinks. Opposed to talent is always there like miami. SLC had too many uncharacteristic mistakes like tre fumbling inside the 10, The backup throwing a pick in the endzone, and the blown coverage for a touch down. The only way MNW scored was on a big play, that the inexperienced secondary gave up.

Bottom line SlC almost lost there next game to rockwall, if it had been playoff time SLC would have handled them with relative ease.

Maybe I am wrong but I did not see SLC in the State Finals this year.

Only because they haven't been played yet for this year. We'll see ya in December!:D

[jrock210]

Judson is a great example!
Judson usually has great RB but not many D1 prospects (in fact lately they are lucky to have 2 D1 prospects) If you work together as a team you can beat the best players. Our defense worked as a team and shut down the best RB in the state in the playoffs!

[mojoguy]

It's all about the commitment that the players have to the program more than anything else. It depends on where their talent comes from. If they are big and fast because they outworked everyone in the offseason, they will be a good team. If they are just talented because God made them that way, they will get beat in a hurry in Texas if they come up against a good team that is well-coached. That being said, occasionally a team comes along that is extraordinarily talented AND is able to become a cohesive team with quality coaching. When that happens, you have a heck of a team. Permian, Judson, Plano, Katy, etc. historically make a living out of beating superior talented teams in the playoffs, because they just outwork them. SLC and Euless seem to have sufficient talent most years and put forth the effort to get it done. Effort is what makes Texas high school football better than Florida and California high school football.

SGP seems to be fairly cohesive and mature for as talented as they are in recent years from what I've seen though. I fully expect them to be competitive at the state level again.

Teams with no talent and no work ethic < Teams with God-given talent < Teams that earn it

And for the record, Northwestern was more talented than SLC last season, but the Dragons had plenty of talent to win if they didn't play a little bit sloppy. Riley Dodge was out at a critical time also. If those things don't happen, Northwestern fans would still be talking about how they lost because of the trip to Dallas.

[Wagnerdad]

Im unbiased from katy. I truly think SLC was the better team. That early in the year a team has to waqrk out the kinks. Opposed to talent is always there like miami. SLC had too many uncharacteristic mistakes like tre fumbling inside the 10, The backup throwing a pick in the endzone, and the blown coverage for a touch down. The only way MNW scored was on a big play, that the inexperienced secondary gave up.

Bottom line SlC almost lost there next game to rockwall, if it had been playoff time SLC would have handled them with relative ease.

I guess MNW didn't get any better after that game? Truth is MNW was/is the better team. Living in San Antonio, I got to go to the state finals. Obviously SLC had another bad day not to be in them. Trust me, MNW had a lot to do with Tre fumbling that ball near the goal line. Great players make great plays (like the big play you spoke of)!!

[DragonMan]

Very Interesting thread. I was at the MNW-SLC too. As much as I hate to admit it, I believe WagonerDad is correct on the fact MNW did force several of the turnovers; inside 5 hit on Tre; strip of Cunningham and pressure on Dodge in what I recall was a 3rd or 4th down forced pass into good coverage that resulted in big interception late in game? Its rare that I don't sit down and review the game tape just for fun, but I don't yet have a tape of this game, but that's what I recall. I had a friend in New Jersey who is a very knowledgable sports guys - and completely unbiased with no loyalties to Texsas Teams watching the game that night in September, and I called him most dejectedly after the game for his opinion on what happened to my beloved Dragons, his comment was "it looked to me like MNW had just a little more team speed."

[ftballin11]

Very Interesting thread. I was at the MNW-SLC too. As much as I hate to admit it, I believe WagonerDad is correct on the fact MNW did force several of the turnovers; inside 5 hit on Tre; strip of Cunningham and pressure on Dodge in what I recall was a 3rd or 4th down forced pass into good coverage that resulted in big interception late in game? Its rare that I don't sit down and review the game tape just for fun, but I don't yet have a tape of this game, but that's what I recall. I had a friend in New Jersey who is a very knowledgable sports guys - and completely unbiased with no loyalties to Texsas Teams watching the game that night in September, and I called him most dejectedly after the game for his opinion on what happened to my beloved Dragons, his comment was "it looked to me like MNW had just a little more team speed."


obviously they had more team speed, that was known before coming in. All I'm saying is its hard to judge a team that early in the year, teams that rely on coaching for there dominance such as katy SLC SV Judson and Trinity, dont hit there stride till playoff time, when it really counts. teams that rely more on talent, MNW, Lufkin, Northshore, come right out of the gate firing. I know fore katy its because of the complexity of the schemes. It takes a lot of video to work out the kinks. Thats while early in the season you will see blown assignments that you wont see in the playoffs.

[Big Daddy Cool]

Having followed North Shore since the 94' season I've seen them when they were loaded with D1 talent and I've seen them when they only had one or two D1 recruits. The thing people forget about that 03' was that as good as it was there weren't as many D1 recruits on it as there were on past North Shore teams. The team that played Judson in 96' had a D1 prospect at just about every position. So I think as some have said talent can some times help get a few more wins. But in the end its coaching and teamwork that really brings the wins.

[AHSeagles]

A well coached team of good players that play as a unit rather than 11 individuals will almost always beat a team of great players that play for themselves. Abilene the last several years has had great success never having more than maybe 1 or 2 D1 recruits per year. Permian has been great for years and I don't remember any of those teams having 8 D1 recruits, but those teams won.

[Wagnerdad]

obviously they had more team speed, that was known before coming in. All I'm saying is its hard to judge a team that early in the year, teams that rely on coaching for there dominance such as katy SLC SV Judson and Trinity, dont hit there stride till playoff time, when it really counts. teams that rely more on talent, MNW, Lufkin, Northshore, come right out of the gate firing. I know fore katy its because of the complexity of the schemes. It takes a lot of video to work out the kinks. Thats while early in the season you will see blown assignments that you wont see in the playoffs.

I agree that teams that rely more on coaching will take more time to jell. In the case of MNW you had a team that was well coached and tons of talent. These teams just get better and better!

[ftballin11]

I agree that teams that rely more on coaching will take more time to jell. In the case of MNW you had a team that was well coached and tons of talent. These teams just get better and better!

That was that coaches first year at MNW. Let see how he does with out 14 blue chippers or howeer many it is.

[Wagnerdad]

That was that coaches first year at MNW. Let see how he does with out 14 blue chippers or howeer many it is.

Thinking that MNW will run out of players is like thinking SLC is gonna run out of them. People move into those districts so they can go to those schools! Those schools always reload!

[ftballin11]

Thinking that MNW will run out of players is like thinking SLC is gonna run out of them. People move into those districts so they can go to those schools! Those schools always reload!

For places like katy trinity and SLC, the coaches are far more important than the players. I can only speak for katy because thats my team but Katy's talent is probably right at the average for the state. They reload because of the system. Some of the best talent that goes to katy will quit, because the coaches value team work and buying into the system rather than talent.

[t-long20]

Its all about how well you punish your athletes when they get out of line.

Signed,

Bob Knight.

[jbusch]

For places like katy trinity and SLC, the coaches are far more important than the players. I can only speak for katy because thats my team but Katy's talent is probably right at the average for the state. They reload because of the system. Some of the best talent that goes to katy will quit, because the coaches value team work and buying into the system rather than talent. IMHO that's also exactly the way it is @ ET