PDA

View Full Version : Most Storied Program In Texas?



cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 04:17 PM
I wanted to know who you guys thought was the most storied program in Texas. Basically I mean who you think has the most history and the most awe with their name. If the team you think isnt on the poll, vote other and explain, thanks.

I have to go with Permian Odessa. Its hard to deny it. They have won six Texas Championships and Two National championships. They play in Ratliff, which is like a monument of Texas HS football. They were also almost always outsized by their opponents, but they beat them with heart. I think the whole aura behind their name just gives it to them. Mojo .......

Sorry only 10 poll options. And can a mod please change Brownwoon to Brownwood, thanks.

RedRage00
05-17-2005, 04:23 PM
Who is Brownwoon? :D :p

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 04:31 PM
Lol, its a typo.

Mr. Buddy Garrity
05-17-2005, 04:31 PM
Permian. It just has to be.

RedRage00
05-17-2005, 04:35 PM
My vote goes to BROWNWOON!!!

GO WOONS!

jk...I voted PERMIAN too

RR

Redclad
05-17-2005, 04:36 PM
Brownwoon is a new school with lots of potential, this poll however is dead. Anyone thinking it could possibly be a school other than Permian is brain dead.

RedRage00
05-17-2005, 04:41 PM
Brownwoon is a new school with lots of potential, this poll however is dead. Anyone thinking it could possibly be a school other that Permian is brain dead.


Yeah, but someone voted for Garland :p

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 04:50 PM
Hahah, those damn brownwoon kids. Always messing things up.

Any reasons for Permian and Garland?

pack4life
05-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Who voted for garland!? :eek:

owlfan 1
05-17-2005, 05:05 PM
Who voted for garland!? :eek:

Garland isn't even the most storied program between Preston Road and Interstate 30 in DFW (see Plano Senior High School). The Owls aren't chopped liver, but they certainly don't belong up there with Permian...

But we're better than the Woons!

pack4life
05-17-2005, 05:14 PM
:D Haha yeah man no offense intended for Garland, just wondering why they would be up there

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 05:16 PM
I thought they were alright. Seems two other people did too.

CoppellCowboy57
05-17-2005, 05:17 PM
Odessa, has to have my vote, not every high school in the country has a movie made after them...(well two) haha. I woulda say the second would have to be Plano

Or Celina

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 05:19 PM
Odessa, has to have my vote, not every high school in the country has a movie made after them...(well two) haha. I woulda say the second would have to be Plano

Or Celina

Two movies? What is the other one besides FNL?

CoppellCowboy57
05-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Remember the Titans...

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 05:36 PM
Oh alrite I thought you meant that Permian has two. My bad.

jtk1519
05-17-2005, 06:23 PM
The Brownwood Lions have 7 state titles. Nobody on that list has more. I think in a sport where the ultimate sign of success is the numbers of trophies in your possession, Brownwood is without equal.

ALLSTAR
05-17-2005, 07:14 PM
SLC will soon be the new MoJo

wide-e-wide
05-17-2005, 07:33 PM
Allstar...I see your location is home of the #1 team in the nation.
always good to see a California guy on the board. Go Trojans!

Katyexrb29
05-17-2005, 08:50 PM
Garland but no Judson? There are a few schools up there that shouldn't even be up there. winning one state championship is great and two is better, but three or more is storied.

lonny23
05-17-2005, 08:58 PM
Garland but no Judson? There are a few schools up there that shouldn't even be up there. winning one state championship is great and two is better, but three or more is storied.
I voted other because this is 5A Texas Football and that means Converse Judson, the only 6-time champion and 9-time finalist in 5A history, SALUTE!

Permian has the most national rep because of the book and movie and they had a great program from the 60's to the early 90's. The other guys like Brownwood, Wichita Falls, Abilene, Waco and Amarillo were past powers.

Plano was good for a long time and recently, Katy has been great in 5A. The work of SLC should also be mentioned. The lower classes have had some top teams, but I focus on the larger schools.

cougarcb16
05-17-2005, 09:02 PM
I voted other because this is 5A Texas Football and that means Converse Judson, the only 6-time champion and 9-time finalist in 5A history, SALUTE!

Permian has the most national rep because of the book and movie and they had a great program from the 60's to the early 90's. The other guys like Brownwood, Wichita Falls, Abilene, Waco and Amarillo were past powers.

Plano was good for a long time and recently, Katy has been great in 5A. The work of SLC should also be mentioned. The lower classes have had some top teams, but I focus on the larger schools.

Who would you pick?

Also, even though Permian has the most national rep, I do think that they deserve it.

jtk1519
05-17-2005, 09:13 PM
Permian has the most national rep because of the book and movie and they had a great program from the 60's to the early 90's. The other guys like Brownwood, Wichita Falls, Abilene, Waco and Amarillo were past powers.

Brownwood's 7 state titles all came between 1960-present day... just like Permian's. You can't call them "past powers" anymore than you can Permian.

Texas Hammer
05-17-2005, 09:16 PM
Brownwood's 7 state titles all came between 1960-present day... just like Permian's. You can't call them "past powers" anymore than you can Permian.
Both teams were past powers. They had glory years, but might not ever get them back.

jtk1519
05-17-2005, 09:19 PM
Both teams were past powers. They had glory years, but might not ever get them back.

Neither team has won it all in a while, but Brownwood has and has had a very solid program for a long while now. They are still a force in 4A football. I dont the same can be said of Permian in 5A.

Texas Hammer
05-17-2005, 09:21 PM
Neither team has won it all in a while, but Brownwood has and has had a very solid program for a long while now. They are still a force in 4A football. I dont the same can be said of Permian in 5A.
Brownwood does still make the playoffs and I'd agree they're better off than Permian.

Shoot2thrill
05-17-2005, 09:47 PM
SLC will soon be the new MoJo

How many groups were supposed the be the "new Beatles" over the years? Sometimes you gotta be at the right place at the right time. There will never be a run like Mojo had over a 25-30 year period. Ain't gonna happen... :p

Texas Hammer
05-17-2005, 10:02 PM
How many groups were supposed the be the "new Beatles" over the years? Sometimes you gotta be at the right place at the right time. There will never be a run like Mojo had over a 25-30 year period. Ain't gonna happen... :p
Judson had the same run. Whether or not it continues is still to be determined.

farmerfan
05-17-2005, 11:28 PM
Nothing against the Lufkin teams or anything, they are a impressive program, but to say Garland should not be on there and that Lufkin should is flat out wrong in my opinion, Garland has accomplished more than Lufkin.
I also agree with jtk on the Brownwood issue, winning 7 state titles says everything you need to know. Also two years ago they were 11-1 losing to Denton Ryan, had Freeman been healthy, they might have had a shot to beat the Raiders in the playoffs that year.
I think the popular pick is Permian and that goes without question, 6 state titles and 10 apperances in the title game is very impressive. All coming in the states largest classification. In my own opinion, there are 3 stoired programs in 5A, Permian, Plano and Judson. All others are second tier compared to those.

Xfballphenome05
05-17-2005, 11:48 PM
no question about it..it would have 2 be permian...they even made a movie about them...most football states have herd stories about them ,or have herd about them some way or the other.

cougardude
05-18-2005, 05:10 AM
SLC will soon be the new MoJo

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

GoOwls
05-18-2005, 06:21 AM
:D Haha yeah man no offense intended for Garland, just wondering why they would be up there

I'm not gonna get on some soapbox and tell you that Garland deserves to be up there with Permain or Judson or Plano, that's not a consideration, but Garland deserves to be in the conversation of most storied program. Most Storied means history and tradition and, well, a team that had stories told about them. Most of you don't know and wouldn't have a reason to know, but in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, Garland wasn't a team you wanted on your schedule and Williams Stadium was a nightmare to play in. Garland had 2 or 3 teams that would have won state back before they played a championship game in the 40's in the lower classifications. They were known by their opponents as The Black Knights of Garland in those days moreso than the Owls. It was a nickname of respect given by their opponents. Williams Stadium is one of the last, if not the last stadium that hosted a state championsihp game, in the upper bracket, won by the home team in 1956. Garland won the "mythical" national championship in 1964 after the second of two state championships in a row. Now, 1972-1991 was a bad time for Garland football as a whole. The talent level in the whole city was low and the coaching was horrible. The school board was having struggles with it's "freedom of choice" school format and making it fit federal guidelines and they weren't concerned with athletics. Homer Johnson, the AD, had fits trying to hire good coaches, but couldn't get the cash. The administration changed and finally Homer was given the purse-strings to hire better coaches and Garland got Joe Martin in 1991. We have gotten back to our status as being a tough team to face and a team of big hitters on D. If you beat us, most likely you are gonna feel it Saturday morning. We also picked up our 4th State Championship in 1999. I realize that Garland is seen as second banana to the East Texas schools, but Garland has as many state championships as Lufkin, Tyler Lee, and Tyler John Tyler combined, and if you throw in Longview and Marshal, their cumulative achievements don't greatly overshadow the history of the Owls.

In conclusion, I'm not stupid enough to say Garland is a top 5 program, but we deserve to be in the conversation when the conversation is about "Most Storied" program.

dragonsdaddy
05-18-2005, 07:08 AM
for what it's worth, my initial introduction, or at least my earliest memories concerning high school football are of the back to back state titles won by the hooters.i remember they beat a jerry rhome led houston area team and their coach soon left for oklahoma and later for auto sales. anyway, they made an impression on one young lad who is glad it got started sooner rather than later.

Warbird
05-18-2005, 07:35 AM
I'm surprised nobody's really given Abilene much cred here. Come on! It won the 4th EVER state championship, went on to win five more (Three of which were in consecutive years, (54-65), and they went to the finals two more times. The 50's Eagles were named the "Team of the Century" by the DMN. :D Tell me that ain't storied. :eek:

dragonsdaddy
05-18-2005, 08:03 AM
the eagles were great back in grandpas day, no doubt. they had the best players money could buy and were the main reason we now have the uil in all its glory. any one who doubts that can walk into the ford house or the cafe in haskell, texas and ask any gray beard what they think about jarrin john kimbrough.

GARLAND99
05-18-2005, 08:12 AM
Let me preface this by saying that I am obviously a Garland guy myself (and my brother is still there) but there's no way that anyone picks anything other than Permian. Permian was, in it's hayday the epitome of what every high school player/coach/fan wanted their programs to be. Now that being said, there are obviously different eras involoved in everything that we do and with that it's hard to discount what the Garland High School football program did in the early 1900's. Garland High School was undefeated for something like 27 years. Now don't over-react, I am quite aware that they only played 4-6 game in many of those years but still, to not lose a game for more than 20 years....THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. All that being said, there is no doubt that the success of the Permian Panthers is that of Legendary status. Hands down, Permian as the best program in the modern HS Football scene

dragonsdaddy
05-18-2005, 08:26 AM
the team that stood down the mojo at every opportunity was plano. it has been a while since those 2 were playing well, and hs football has been the worse for it. these 2 need to get their auras back and play some late season ball again.

KT2000
05-18-2005, 10:26 AM
The fact that Converse Judson was left off the poll choices makes it null and void in my opinion, ;) .

Seriously, any list about top programs/dynasties in Texas begins and ends with Converse Judson in my opinion.

Cdawg
05-18-2005, 10:34 AM
the eagles were great back in grandpas day, no doubt. they had the best players money could buy and were the main reason we now have the uil in all its glory. any one who doubts that can walk into the ford house or the cafe in haskell, texas and ask any gray beard what they think about jarrin john kimbrough.

as i read the question it did not say anything about a point in time, just which is the most storied program, today, yesterday or in grandpa's day. im not saying that abilene is the most storied program ever, but it did disappoint me they didn't even make the poll. dragonsdaddy it really disappoints me as well that you would bring up money and football with as much crap as the dragons have to put up with people whining about your million dollar facilities and expensive camps your players go to. of course im not suggesting that players are paid to go to slc, thats absurd.

owlfan 1
05-18-2005, 10:34 AM
I'm not gonna get on some soapbox and tell you that Garland deserves to be up there with Permain or Judson or Plano, that's not a consideration, but Garland deserves to be in the conversation of most storied program. Most Storied means history and tradition and, well, a team that had stories told about them. Most of you don't know and wouldn't have a reason to know, but in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, Garland wasn't a team you wanted on your schedule and Williams Stadium was a nightmare to play in. Garland had 2 or 3 teams that would have won state back before they played a championship game in the 40's in the lower classifications. They were known by their opponents as The Black Knights of Garland in those days moreso than the Owls. It was a nickname of respect given by their opponents. Williams Stadium is one of the last, if not the last stadium that hosted a state championsihp game, in the upper bracket, won by the home team in 1956. Garland won the "mythical" national championship in 1964 after the second of two state championships in a row. Now, 1972-1991 was a bad time for Garland football as a whole. The talent level in the whole city was low and the coaching was horrible. The school board was having struggles with it's "freedom of choice" school format and making it fit federal guidelines and they weren't concerned with athletics. Homer Johnson, the AD, had fits trying to hire good coaches, but couldn't get the cash. The administration changed and finally Homer was given the purse-strings to hire better coaches and Garland got Joe Martin in 1991. We have gotten back to our status as being a tough team to face and a team of big hitters on D. If you beat us, most likely you are gonna feel it Saturday morning. We also picked up our 4th State Championship in 1999. I realize that Garland is seen as second banana to the East Texas schools, but Garland has as many state championships as Lufkin, Tyler Lee, and Tyler John Tyler combined, and if you throw in Longview and Marshal, their cumulative achievements don't greatly overshadow the history of the Owls.

In conclusion, I'm not stupid enough to say Garland is a top 5 program, but we deserve to be in the conversation when the conversation is about "Most Storied" program.

...yeah...what he said...

dragonsdaddy
05-18-2005, 11:01 AM
the recruitment of athletes was rampant in those days, and not really considered much of a crime. except to small towns who were left behind, like haskell, very little was said. everyone wished they could afford good players. until the uil got some teeth, it went on wherever there was money.

Firebird
05-18-2005, 12:27 PM
Based on this poll, I would say that you have to chose Permian. Remember, "storied" is not eqivalent to "most championships". It is a factor, and a huge one at that, but there are the other intangibles. Things like national and statewide prominence, the centrality of the program to the community, things like that. SLC has a stupendous, dominant program, but it just doesn't have the mystique or aura that Permian had (and still has, in some ways). Not to say that perhaps it is better not to be a "storied program". Much of Permian's fame and legend grew out of highly critical accounts. HS Football in Odessa was not always a benefit to the community.

Plus, I agree that leaving our Converse Judson is laughable. There should also be some smaller schools up there.... Celina, Sealy, La Marque, Stephenville.

CoppellCowboy57
05-18-2005, 01:20 PM
I still say Celina has to be one of the better school out there...they might not be 5A (or even 4A) but there still a power house

dada
05-18-2005, 01:51 PM
being a former military man and having been all over the world. When people talked about Texas HS Football it was either Odessa Permian or Converse Judson. I've lived in Texas all my life and had never heard of Garland until the won the title a few years back. Some of the schools shouldn't even be on the list. :)

cougarcb16
05-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Im sorry Im sorry, I am from New York so I have not leanred about all of the Texas teams yet. Please pardon my crucial mistake. Can someone please inform me of this Converse Judson team? Thanks.

farmerfan
05-18-2005, 04:09 PM
Though i am not from the San Antonio area, I will tell you what I know about the Rockets. They won their first state title in 83 over a strong Midland Lee team, the following years they acheieved more success leading to a second state title in 88 (won on forfeit due to Dallas Carter). In 89 and 90 they had strong teams that made the playoffs only to lose out to Aldine in the semis and Im not certain who beat them in 90. From 1991-1993 they played in 3 straight championship games winning in 92 and 93 behind Jerrod Douglas, one of the greatest RB's in the history of 5A football. The powerhouse that is now Katy put itself on the map in 94 when they were able to beat Judson in the semis. The following year was a dream come true for all Texas HS football fans, as Permian and Judson met for the D1 state title, in one of the greatest title games ever played, Judson edged Permian 31-28. Again in 96 Judson made it back to the title game coming up short. In 1997 I beleive they got beat in the 1st round of the playoffs and came back strong for 98, the 98 team was the first Judson team to enter a championship game undefeated and had a comfortable lead on Duncanville, late in the game a few turnovers led to some Duncanville points and a missed fg at the end of the game cost the Rockets their 1st 15-0 season. From 99-01 they had never made a title game, they followed that up with a 2002 state title winning on a last second hail marry over Midland High, in 03 they were way beyond Judson status and either lost in the 1st round of the playoffs or did not make it. This past year they were able to once again get back to the semifinal round before losing to Spring Westfield. Overall the Rockets have been everything Permian and Plano have been, and it has only taken them 21 years to accomplish what it took Permian and Plano some 30 years to achieve. Rocket Pride is all over the state come december and when the playoffs start in Texas one team most people expect to be playing at the end is the Judson Rockets.

cougarcb16
05-18-2005, 05:31 PM
I am guessing they are from the San Antonio area? Also thanks for the information, that was really helpful.

GoOwls
05-18-2005, 05:44 PM
being a former military man and having been all over the world. When people talked about Texas HS Football it was either Odessa Permian or Converse Judson. I've lived in Texas all my life and had never heard of Garland until the won the title a few years back. Some of the schools shouldn't even be on the list. :)

I fully understand that you haven't heard about Garland, but in the 60's, Garland was the Texas school on the national lips. The Owls had their own radio network and EVERY game could be heard just about anywhere in north Texas and southern Oklahoma. I knew a guy who worked at the Garland Daily News at that time and he told me that in August they would get 400-500 out-of-state subscriptions to the paper for September through December so people could follow the team. During the second of back-to-back championships, Garland played a rematch of the semi-final game against Amarillo Tascosa. The '63 game was played in a blizzard in Amarillo and Garland won on a late touchdown 7-6. This time there was so much attention to the game that it became the first HS football game televised in the state of Texas on TV. There was 26,000 fans at the game and the whole Dallas/Ft. Worth area got to see the game live. It was many, many years before such a game was televised again. Garland won 21-7. By 1970, the Owls were on the verge of decline as 2 new high schools had opened and the radio broadcast became the game of the week and then in 1971 went away all together. Most people, due to age or geography, aren't in tune with how big the Owls really were at one time, especially from the 40's through the 60's.

Shoot2thrill
05-18-2005, 09:35 PM
The fact that Converse Judson was left off the poll choices makes it null and void in my opinion, ;) .

Seriously, any list about top programs/dynasties in Texas begins and ends with Converse Judson in my opinion.

Had to do a double take on this one. Thought I would see lonny's sig on this post- not KT's! I totally agree with you on the first part but feel that last part was a little over-stated. Begins and ends with CJ? Whoooa babee! :eek: Them's fighting words out in West Texas! But hey- thats what this board is about and we love you for it! :cool:

GoOwls
05-18-2005, 10:00 PM
Not to offend anyone, but I'd like to see how Converse Judsons' playoff record was if they had to face the East Texas districts or the Plano district or the West Texas district in the first, second, third, and fourth rounds of the playoffs each year instead of wading through the far south and far west districts each year against minimal competition. It's not as easy to win state playing the eventual state champion or the #1 team in the state in the first or second round. Again, not bragging, but Garland had to beat 4 top 10 schools to win state in 1999, and the other 2 were in the top 25. Converse plays 10-0 teams that rank in the 150's or worse every year. I personally have little respect for the Converse cause, it certainly is nothing, and I mean nothing, compaired to Odessa Permain mystique. Sorry , that's just the truth.

lufkin_82
05-18-2005, 10:04 PM
its sad that lufkin has not been brought up much in this conversation. not only have some of the high school greats come out of lufkin (reggie mcneal, sparky hamilton, denvis manns, one of only 6 players to rush for 1,000+ yards in 4 college seasons, and many others) but lufkin has been playing late november mid-december cosistantly. i know all of this isnt about players or how late in the year they play, but lufkin is and always has been a great program. permian is probably the most storied team in hs football, but i just felt lufkin needed 2 be brought up in this.

wide-e-wide
05-18-2005, 10:12 PM
the Lufkin teams in the early 80's were horrible..
in the late 80's there were a couple of above average
teams that all under-acheived...
Into the 90's they were mediocre at best through
the Slaughter years...and when Outlaw came LP
was finally on the map for good. They have just
become a permanent fixture in the elite
of the state. There are teams that have been running
over people for decades in this state. Let's not chunk
Lufkin into that bunch just yet. I love 'em ...don't get me
wrong...I just think that is a little premature.

RocketQB
05-18-2005, 10:16 PM
Cry me a river! So now you are insinuating the only reason Judson has been so successful is because of the division they are in? Oh please!! Every unsuccessful team could make an excuse for why they are unsuccessful. There are teams in every division that are good and teams that are not so good. Some places simply have more talent, skills, and discipline than others. Truth is, D.W. Rutledge developed an excellent football program at Judson and it has worked for many years. As a matter of fact, several schools in the San Antonio area have modeled their football program after Judson's program, so obviously, they are doing something right!

farmerfan
05-18-2005, 10:53 PM
Lufkin has been great of late, that said, they are no where near a storied program in the state of Texas. Lufkin is 2-3rd teir, it starts and ends with three schools, Plano, Permian and Judson as far as 5A go, after that you have Midland Lee, Arlington Lamar, Garland, Westlake, Katy, Lewisville, Eisenhower your East Texas schools and some others that im sure i ahve left off. Dont get me wrong, Lufkin has been great over the last 5-6 years, but that does not qualify them for being consdiered among the elite or even a storied program.


As far as what Owl said, Judson has proven what they would do if they went through the regions you mentioned, they drilled Plano in 93 beat Permian, Lee and Midland and beat Euless Trinity to win state titles, by beating those teams they proved in my mind that they would have gone through that region in the state the same as they did in their own region. You just cant make a argument for Judson's success based on location. Judson remains the only 5A school to win a state title in every decade that 5A has existed. That within itself says all you need to now about the Rockets.

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:44 PM
I'm surprised nobody's really given Abilene much cred here. Come on! It won the 4th EVER state championship, went on to win five more (Three of which were in consecutive years, (54-65), and they went to the finals two more times. The 50's Eagles were named the "Team of the Century" by the DMN. :D Tell me that ain't storied. :eek:
I said Abilene was one of the past great teams. They've done more than Garland.

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:45 PM
The fact that Converse Judson was left off the poll choices makes it null and void in my opinion, ;) .

Seriously, any list about top programs/dynasties in Texas begins and ends with Converse Judson in my opinion.
KT, that's probably the best thing I've ever :D seen you write among all your posts!

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:50 PM
Though i am not from the San Antonio area, I will tell you what I know about the Rockets. They won their first state title in 83 over a strong Midland Lee team, the following years they acheieved more success leading to a second state title in 88 (won on forfeit due to Dallas Carter). In 89 and 90 they had strong teams that made the playoffs only to lose out to Aldine in the semis and Im not certain who beat them in 90. From 1991-1993 they played in 3 straight championship games winning in 92 and 93 behind Jerrod Douglas, one of the greatest RB's in the history of 5A football. The powerhouse that is now Katy put itself on the map in 94 when they were able to beat Judson in the semis. The following year was a dream come true for all Texas HS football fans, as Permian and Judson met for the D1 state title, in one of the greatest title games ever played, Judson edged Permian 31-28. Again in 96 Judson made it back to the title game coming up short. In 1997 I beleive they got beat in the 1st round of the playoffs and came back strong for 98, the 98 team was the first Judson team to enter a championship game undefeated and had a comfortable lead on Duncanville, late in the game a few turnovers led to some Duncanville points and a missed fg at the end of the game cost the Rockets their 1st 15-0 season. From 99-01 they had never made a title game, they followed that up with a 2002 state title winning on a last second hail marry over Midland High, in 03 they were way beyond Judson status and either lost in the 1st round of the playoffs or did not make it. This past year they were able to once again get back to the semifinal round before losing to Spring Westfield. Overall the Rockets have been everything Permian and Plano have been, and it has only taken them 21 years to accomplish what it took Permian and Plano some 30 years to achieve. Rocket Pride is all over the state come december and when the playoffs start in Texas one team most people expect to be playing at the end is the Judson Rockets.
Marshall beat Judson in 1990 with Dennis Parker as coach, who was the Offensive Coordinator for the 1983 team with Chris Pryor at RB. Judson lost in the 1st round in 1997 and 2000, missed the playoffs in 1999 and 2003, and lost in Round 2 in 2001. Nobody else in 5A has won 6 titles, played in 9 title games, or 13 semifinals in 25 years of 5A football. Judson didn't really get on the map until the 1982 semifinal run because they were always growing and kept moving up in class.

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:51 PM
I am guessing they are from the San Antonio area? Also thanks for the information, that was really helpful.
Converse is on the NE side of San Antonio just west of Randolph AFB.

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:54 PM
Had to do a double take on this one. Thought I would see lonny's sig on this post- not KT's! I totally agree with you on the first part but feel that last part was a little over-stated. Begins and ends with CJ? Whoooa babee! :eek: Them's fighting words out in West Texas! But hey- thats what this board is about and we love you for it! :cool:
That wasn't me, but this is. I'm so happy about what KT wrote that I'll let you guys know I've been posting as Lonny and Hammer. I like all the Jim Adler ads and almost fell on the floor laughing the first time I saw his commercial that said, "I'm Jim Adler, the Texas Hammer!" Mainly, I wanted to know if I could outpost all you guys using 2 screennames.

Texas Hammer
05-18-2005, 11:58 PM
Not to offend anyone, but I'd like to see how Converse Judsons' playoff record was if they had to face the East Texas districts or the Plano district or the West Texas district in the first, second, third, and fourth rounds of the playoffs each year instead of wading through the far south and far west districts each year against minimal competition. It's not as easy to win state playing the eventual state champion or the #1 team in the state in the first or second round. Again, not bragging, but Garland had to beat 4 top 10 schools to win state in 1999, and the other 2 were in the top 25. Converse plays 10-0 teams that rank in the 150's or worse every year. I personally have little respect for the Converse cause, it certainly is nothing, and I mean nothing, compaired to Odessa Permain mystique. Sorry , that's just the truth.They're 3-0 against The Little SWC. Do they have to beat Abilene, Cooper, and Odessa, too? They're 9-4 against Houston, so it's not like you can say they can't compete there. Judson has always been good enough to beat the teams that knocked out East Texas, so they can compete there, too.

GoOwls
05-19-2005, 12:07 AM
I said Abilene was one of the past great teams. They've done more than Garland.

Yep, if you count the days when you could buy a title with oil money, Abilene has outclassed most schools, but after the oil money died out, ????

The same thing is happening to Permain now, just slower, and I think Midland is a few years away from the same fate. JMHO

lonny23
05-19-2005, 12:19 AM
The fact that Converse Judson was left off the poll choices makes it null and void in my opinion, ;) .

Seriously, any list about top programs/dynasties in Texas begins and ends with Converse Judson in my opinion.
Thanks, KT. Maybe all my propaganda was worth something after all! :D

lonny23
05-19-2005, 12:20 AM
Yep, if you count the days when you could buy a title with oil money, Abilene has outclassed most schools, but after the oil money died out, ????

The same thing is happening to Permain now, just slower, and I think Midland is a few years away from the same fate. JMHO
Even Phillips in 2A was buying titles in the 50's. The Panhandle looks live a shriveled prune after the oil bust.

panthermaniac
05-19-2005, 01:28 PM
I think John Tyler deserves a mention here. True, the last few seasons have been dismal, but they have flaunted some notable teams in the past, had several state titles, and produced one of the NFL's finest, Mr Earl Campbell.

CoppellCowboy57
05-19-2005, 01:31 PM
There arnt alot of SA teams that can be known as all time great teams..

farmerfan
05-19-2005, 02:14 PM
Maybe its just me, and maybe i should not bring this up, but I kind of find what lonny was doing to be a little highschoolish, grow up dude.

Polls like this are always going to be biased and never give us the true indication of the most storied programs, nothing against the teams such as Carroll, Lufkin, Garland or Katy, but the fact that they all have more votes than Plano and Brownwood shows the bias their fans have towards them. Not that those schools arent great, but imop not one of those schools have the tradition of a Plano or Brownwood, also as DD eluded to earlier, Plano is 4-0 against Permian, beating them everytime in the semifinals, they beat them 3-0, 6-3, 29-21 and 10-0 with the last two coming at Ratliff. That should say something about Plano but they only have one vote, the Wildcats were also the 1st 5A team ever to win back to back state titles. What i am trying to get at is, these polls are fun, but you have to take the bias out, does anyone really believe that the schools with more votes than Plano and Brownwood are more storied programs than those?

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 08:19 PM
Maybe its just me, and maybe i should not bring this up, but I kind of find what lonny was doing to be a little highschoolish, grow up dude.

Polls like this are always going to be biased and never give us the true indication of the most storied programs, nothing against the teams such as Carroll, Lufkin, Garland or Katy, but the fact that they all have more votes than Plano and Brownwood shows the bias their fans have towards them. Not that those schools arent great, but imop not one of those schools have the tradition of a Plano or Brownwood, also as DD eluded to earlier, Plano is 4-0 against Permian, beating them everytime in the semifinals, they beat them 3-0, 6-3, 29-21 and 10-0 with the last two coming at Ratliff. That should say something about Plano but they only have one vote, the Wildcats were also the 1st 5A team ever to win back to back state titles. What i am trying to get at is, these polls are fun, but you have to take the bias out, does anyone really believe that the schools with more votes than Plano and Brownwood are more storied programs than those?
What specifically did I do that you find to be childish?

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 08:21 PM
Wait just a dog-gone minute...Are Lonny and Texas Hammer the
same person?

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 08:24 PM
Wait just a dog-gone minute...Are Lonny and Texas Hammer the
same person?
Yep, you're in trouble! That's why my post count never passed yours, besides the fact that you post so much! ;)

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 08:29 PM
Why the alter ego?
Do you work for the Daily Planet?

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 08:32 PM
Am I the only jackass that didn't notice that...
please tell me no one else caught it either.

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 09:05 PM
Am I the only jackass that didn't notice that...
please tell me no one else caught it either.
No, a few more of you didn't catch it either. :p I originally planned on keeping quiet all year, but KT got me motivated.

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 09:06 PM
Why the alter ego?
Do you work for the Daily Planet?
Yep, you can call me SuperPoster! :D

Rerun
05-19-2005, 09:07 PM
l2k, i count the hours til the rumble in converse.......

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 09:20 PM
Yep, you can call me SuperPoster! :D

Can I be your sidekick?
What's a good name?
SuperPoster and the Waco WonderDrunk...
OUTSTANDING!

Rerun
05-19-2005, 09:21 PM
is wide e wide wlb???

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 09:46 PM
is wide e wide wlb???
Who knows. All I know is he was matching me post for post 2 days ago. wlb never posted like that.

ktchamp97
05-19-2005, 09:50 PM
Texas Jim Lonny Adler Hammer,

wide-e-wide has always been a "wideman"

Texas Hammer
05-19-2005, 09:52 PM
Texas Jim Lonny Adler Hammer,

wide-e-wide has always been a "wideman"
He must've spent some time in San Antonio! :p

farmerfan
05-19-2005, 10:16 PM
nothing you have done on this current thread, however starting post about judson as hammer to flame them to try and get a response, it also shows that by your motivation to out post people, that you officially have no life outside of a computer.

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 10:23 PM
Texas Jim Lonny Adler Hammer,

wide-e-wide has always been a "wideman"

And I always will be baaaaaaby!
And Lonny ...no you didn't think I was WacoLionBacker?????
I'm from Lufkin dude...I just reside in Waco now-a-days...
pn3wideman ring a bell?

CoppellCowboy57
05-19-2005, 10:25 PM
Glad my name hasnt been brought into this...Dont worry about farmer, hes well...from lewsiville

Rerun
05-19-2005, 10:27 PM
where is waco line backer??????????

CoppellCowboy57
05-19-2005, 10:29 PM
Obivoulsy not here

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 10:33 PM
Shhhhh! he will hear us talking about him and
show up. And then it's non-stop postings about
the greatness that is Waco football.

lonny23
05-19-2005, 10:37 PM
nothing you have done on this current thread, however starting post about judson as hammer to flame them to try and get a response, it also shows that by your motivation to out post people, that you officially have no life outside of a computer.
I did it for one reason only. If I was to try to hide my identity, I had to say something that I normally wouldn't say. Outposting people is a natural progression from enjoying the forum. Mostly, I liked the name and wanted to use it. Until the last week, I hadn't spent too much time posting on the forum.

lonny23
05-19-2005, 10:38 PM
And I always will be baaaaaaby!
And Lonny ...no you didn't think I was WacoLionBacker?????
I'm from Lufkin dude...I just reside in Waco now-a-days...
pn3wideman ring a bell?
No, I didn't and that's why you didn't see me give a definitive answer to the question.

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 10:40 PM
No wonder things seemed a little tense around here...
We were dealing with Lonny X2 and didn't even know it.
Didn't Lonny and Texas Hammer have an argument one night?

lonny23
05-19-2005, 10:43 PM
No wonder things seemed a little tense around here...
We were dealing with Lonny X2 and didn't even know it.
Didn't Lonny and Texas Hammer have an argument one night?
I threw a few barbs at myself, but I made sure Hammer said it, because I didn't want people to be mad at Lonny! :D I wanted to be careful and watch what I said so both of us wouldn't be banned. :)

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 10:49 PM
Ha! Hahahaha...that is crazy.
Some serious schizophrenic issues goin' on there Lonny.
I find that I have enough people on here that disagree with
me, without arguing with myself.

Rerun
05-19-2005, 11:01 PM
l2k-when we rumble in converse, u better bring your alte ego hammer attitude with you. 2 sceen names, 1 man, 1 argument. WOW. THIS is what the internet is all about.

lonny23
05-19-2005, 11:11 PM
Ha! Hahahaha...that is crazy.
Some serious schizophrenic issues goin' on there Lonny.
I find that I have enough people on here that disagree with
me, without arguing with myself.
I've had more fun on here the last week than the last 2 years combined.

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 11:13 PM
Just imagine if it were during the season.
Man you could have had a lot of fun...

lonny23
05-19-2005, 11:24 PM
Just imagine if it were during the season.
Man you could have had a lot of fun...
I'll tell you what happens, though. During the year you get a lot of new guys and when you smart off about stuff they get mad or don't understand you're playing around.

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 11:27 PM
Let's say your Vegas...
give me the odds on me making it through
the entire season without getting banned...

I'll go 10-1
Still not in a comfort zone yet.

Rerun
05-19-2005, 11:28 PM
i dont know about you, but i wont get banned. ktchamp and kt2000 may hate me, but they need me. without me there is no board. :p

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 11:33 PM
Ha...ha...Laughed out loud on that one dude.
Keep telling yourself that.
They need me too..who else is gonna turn the
lights out when everyone else is gone to bed?
Me that's who....

lonny23
05-19-2005, 11:35 PM
i dont know about you, but i wont get banned. ktchamp and kt2000 may hate me, but they need me. without me there is no board. :p
When you've been around for a while, you're more than likely going to get a warning email to clean up your act. If it continues, any of us can be banned. It's usually obvious who's going to get banned because they say so much stuff so fast that they have no choice, but to ban people.

From what I've read, the #1 thing that keeps people on the board is to add value to the board.

ktchamp97
05-19-2005, 11:36 PM
Keep it clean and mix in a lot more football and you guys will be fine :)...maybe ;)

We need y'all to set a good example for the young'uns.

Well said, lonny.

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 11:37 PM
Add value...
Then I better stop hanging out with you clowns.

Rerun
05-19-2005, 11:55 PM
When you've been around for a while, you're more than likely going to get a warning email to clean up your act. If it continues, any of us can be banned. It's usually obvious who's going to get banned because they say so much stuff so fast that they have no choice, but to ban people.

From what I've read, the #1 thing that keeps people on the board is to add value to the board.

warning has already occured - ktchamp already punkd me, bro. damn.lesson learned. :cool:

wide-e-wide
05-19-2005, 11:57 PM
Keep it clean and mix in a lot more football and you guys will be fine :)...maybe ;)

We need y'all to set a good example for the young'uns.

Well said, lonny.

I keep trying to talk football but Lonny always takes a left turn.
(That's Dirk style baby...throw your boy under the bus)

So anyway how 'bout them Cowboys?

Texas Hammer
05-20-2005, 12:47 AM
Keep it clean and mix in a lot more football and you guys will be fine :)...maybe ;)

We need y'all to set a good example for the young'uns.

Well said, lonny.
Do you want us to go to off-topic discussion when we take a left turn? I like to talk about football, but you know I like to talk about a lot of other stuff, too!

ktchamp97
05-20-2005, 01:37 AM
Left turns here and there are fine...no biggie. Just make sure to steer it back on course eventually and avoid U-turns.

lonny23
05-20-2005, 01:44 AM
Left turns here and there are fine...no biggie. Just make sure to steer it back on course eventually and avoid U-turns.
A few minutes ago I went ahead and started a thread in off-topic to cover the kind of conversations we were having earlier.

dragonsdaddy
05-20-2005, 08:42 AM
who amongst us would recognize value if it latched onto our collective backsides. hitting lots of keys really fast does not a valuable post make. just a thought, think first, then type, then reread and edit, then for many of us, hit the back key and go on with your reading. that would improve several posting a day. just a thought.

CCHS77
05-20-2005, 09:16 AM
who amongst us would recognize value if it latched onto our collective backsides. hitting lots of keys really fast does not a valuable post make. just a thought, think first, then type, then reread and edit, then for many of us, hit the back key and go on with your reading. that would improve several posting a day. just a thought.


Sage advice from DD, as usual. So, when lack of thought becomes black and white on our screens, the monitors have no choice but to judge value and advise. The proportion of real, unbiased information versus pure BS, goes up and down, during a football season. (Admittedly, off-season banter is a real mixed bag) But I (personally) would gladly take quality over quantity and think the site would be the better for it.

lonny23
05-20-2005, 12:10 PM
Sage advice from DD, as usual. So, when lack of thought becomes black and white on our screens, the monitors have no choice but to judge value and advise. The proportion of real, unbiased information versus pure BS, goes up and down, during a football season. (Admittedly, off-season banter is a real mixed bag) But I (personally) would gladly take quality over quantity and think the site would be the better for it.
What are you guys upset about now? All this stuff is supposed to be fun and I have a ball on here. I talk sports, give thought and reasons to my words, but I'm going to smart off, get off-topic, and have fun conversations with the members.

You guys have been here long enough to know the routine. We don't have a lot of hard-hitting football to talk about, so we're going to say other stuff. This is the first week we can start talking about the rankings and 7 on 7 isn't in full-swing yet.

Let me give you guys a little advice. Don't wonder why everybody hates SLC this year when you want to sit on Mt. Judgment and determine the quality of everybody's posts. This board is for dummies, too. Of course I like to read good football discussion, but I won't throw people under the bus for not doing it. Don't feel singled out, because other people say the same thing about quality and it almost always comes from a veteran poster. We can't have the board both ways. Either we have a little clique of posters who all know each other or we open it up to the whole state and get new posters with various knowledge levels and use of the English language.

farmerfan
05-20-2005, 12:28 PM
Glad my name hasnt been brought into this...Dont worry about farmer, hes well...from lewsiville

Cowboy, dont exactly know what you mean by that, joking or not, I am darn proud to be from Lewisville and the legacy that comes with the name Farmers. Dont think you can say the same for Coppell.

wide-e-wide
05-20-2005, 12:31 PM
who amongst us would recognize value if it latched onto our collective backsides. hitting lots of keys really fast does not a valuable post make. just a thought, think first, then type, then reread and edit, then for many of us, hit the back key and go on with your reading. that would improve several posting a day. just a thought.

Thank you o' Holy One for gracing us with your omnipotence...Now we
shall all see the way...and never again will we post quite the same ...
From now on we will just listen to the other poster's headsets and
adjust our post accordingly... That creaking noise we all hear is the
soapbox about to crumble under the collective weight of SLC's inflated
ego and head...

lonny23
05-20-2005, 01:33 PM
Thank you o' Holy One for gracing us with your omnipotence...Now we
shall all see the way...and never again will we post quite the same ...
From now on we will just listen to the other poster's headsets and
adjust our post accordingly... That creaking noise we all hear is the
soapbox about to crumble under the collective weight of SLC's inflated
ego and head...
Like I said before, this board belongs to everybody. Just because me and you have about 19% of all the posts since the new format doesn't make us the owners of what gets said more than the next guy. We all have to make room for the new guy and the people who stick around always end up being valuable members.

I don't want this place to be a clique where we run people off. We all have to break in somehow. I started in 2003, but didn't really break into the club. After a bunch of posts last year, I finally got to the point where I was a recognized member.

dragonsdaddy
05-20-2005, 01:40 PM
wew and whoever- take it for what it's worth. i wasn't necessarily talking to you and in fact wasn't at all. i have actually seen the light at the start of the tunnel and have turned it off twice. you can too if you so desire by going to user cp and activating a certain software goodie that blocks any posters messages. it may be a bit high handed, but i would have given quite a bit to have done the same to the jacka** donorcyclist on central last night. he caused me to have very impure thoughts and came close to matching his hidee finger wave. the good news is that his genetic passdown potential is very low. the bad news is, he'll be on the public dole if he survives the roadrash and c spine fracture.

wide-e-wide
05-20-2005, 01:42 PM
For English please press 1----

For Gibberish please press 2---

Rerun
05-20-2005, 01:45 PM
Like I said before, this board belongs to everybody. Just because me and you have about 19% of all the posts since the new format doesn't make us the owners of what gets said more than the next guy. We all have to make room for the new guy and the people who stick around always end up being valuable members.

I don't want this place to be a clique where we run people off. We all have to break in somehow. I started in 2003, but didn't really break into the club. After a bunch of posts last year, I finally got to the point where I was a recognized member.

I am still waiting to be a recognized member. :mad:

dragonsdaddy
05-20-2005, 01:46 PM
i'll type slower next time, but it would be with 1 finger rather than 2.

lonny23
05-20-2005, 01:48 PM
I am still waiting to be a recognized member. :mad:
You've been recognized anytime you're not around and somebody asks about you. We still have an APB out on Bleedgreen. Bull showed up one day.

wide-e-wide
05-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Wait until the scrimmage. Lord if Longview wins he will be
here with bells on.

wide-e-wide
05-20-2005, 01:53 PM
i'll type slower next time, but it would be with 1 finger rather than 2.


Let me take back my original response before I get banned. Sorry...
at least I caught myself. Use your imagination.

lonny23
05-20-2005, 01:56 PM
Wait until the scrimmage. Lord if Longview wins he will be
here with bells on.
I think you're right. Either he's busy (maybe), tired of fighting people (I doubt it), or knows the Lobos aren't as good this year (probably).

He's too combative to not fight. Sometimes you'll get somebody to tell you they're tired of fighting, but they'll fight more, anyway. Either it's in your nature or not and that doesn't change.

I just figure Bleed isn't around because he doesn't have enough of a reason to talk trash this year. He'll probably come around for football season, though.

ktchamp97
05-20-2005, 02:05 PM
Since nobody is even attempting to talk about the original intent of this thread, I think it's safe to say that this train has sailed...