Hopefully, a more reasonable thread on the issue of taunting

[twcpfan1]

What are the UIL guidelines?

Theoretically, is a player even allowed to talk or gesture to the opposing sidelines? Is any kind of interaction allowed?

Do you see it a lot on a hs football field?

[CyFallsMom]

I promise I won't do it anymore CavDad:p

OH, you're talking about the PLAYERS!!

[Favpack]

The most obvious issue of a taunt is the throat slash sign - which is a 100% guarantee of a penalty. I don't believe overly-excessive celebrating is taunting. But, flipping into the endzone for no reason can be taunting or excessive celebrating.

It's subjective from what I gather. Klein Forest got two against Lufkin in the final minute. One for spinning the ball after an INT, and the second for piling on in the endzone after a 99 yard INT TD runback - both were a little ticky-tack IMO.

[drgnbkr]

The last taunting penalty I can remember on Carroll was back in 05 when Clint Renfro was called for it and Coach Dodge benched him for it. I don't remember any since then.

[LoneRocket]

The most obvious issue of a taunt is the throat slash sign - which is a 100% guarantee of a penalty. I don't believe overly-excessive celebrating is taunting. But, flipping into the endzone for no reason can be taunting or excessive celebrating.

It's subjective from what I gather. Klein Forest got two against Lufkin in the final minute. One for spinning the ball after an INT, and the second for piling on in the endzone after a 99 yard INT TD runback - both were a little ticky-tack IMO.

I seen a player ejected for flipping into the end-zone.
I seen a TD called back for high stepping from the 10 yard line into the end-zone (which was the wrong interpretation of the rules)

[Favpack]

I seen a player ejected for flipping into the end-zone.
I seen a TD called back for high stepping from the 10 yard line into the end-zone (which was the wrong interpretation of the rules)

That official should be slapped and dismissed. It's a dead ball foul - you never, ever call a play back for that. Ejected for flipping is beyond absurd too. What are your boys doing over there in reffing school Lone?

[LoneRocket]

The most obvious issue of a taunt is the throat slash sign - which is a 100% guarantee of a penalty. I don't believe overly-excessive celebrating is taunting. But, flipping into the endzone for no reason can be taunting or excessive celebrating.

It's subjective from what I gather. Klein Forest got two against Lufkin in the final minute. One for spinning the ball after an INT, and the second for piling on in the endzone after a 99 yard INT TD runback - both were a little ticky-tack IMO.

The history of our defense is to play with excitement jump up and down congratulating each other (not taunting the other team) after someone makes a play. 2% of the refs will call a 15 yarder on the team. It happened often during our state game against Duncanville and also against Southwest.

[Bobcat81]

From Texas Association of Sports Officials-Football:

Rule: 9-2-1-a-1-a,

Unsportsmanlike acts. Added listing of examples developed by CCA supervisors of officials and others to this section to encourage more consistent application of this rule:
"Examples of such acts include, but are not limited to:

--Imitating a slash of the throat;
--Resembling the firing of a weapon;
--Bowing at the waist;
--Punching one's own chest excessively;
--Crossing one's arms in front of the chest;
--Placing one's hand by the ear as if to indicate that the player can not hear the spectators;
--Diving into the end zone when unchallenged by an opponent;
--Entering the end zone with an unnatural stride (e.g., high stepping);
--Going significantly beyond the end line to interact with spectators;
--Standing over a prone player in a taunting manner;
--Attempting to make the ball spin as if it were a top;
--Performing a choreographed act with a teammate(s) (e.g., pretending to take a photo, falling down in unison); and
--Entering the field of play by coaches or substitutes in protest of officials' calls."
Additionally, the committee added language to the rule that reads: "Spontaneous celebrating with teammates on the field of play, provided it is not prolonged, taunting or intended to bring attention to the individual player, is allowed.

Rationale: By providing a list of examples, the committee hopes to assist officials to consistently enforce this penalty. Also, the committee believes there are some situations in which celebration penalties are flagged where the celebration was spontaneous and not excessive or prolonged. This isn't a lessening of the penalty, but a reminder that team celebrations encouragement should be allowed.

http://amarefs.org/ncaa.htm

[twcpfan1]

The one game this year I saw it happen, the player fake fainted into the endzone. The TD was still allowed. A 15 yd penalty was assessed on the ensuing kickoff. Of course, the player was benched for the rest of the half.

[CCBoy]

Taunting is bad!:mad: Celebrating is great!:notworthy
There is a fine line ladies and gentlemen.
I enjoy a small celebration, but who's to say what's small.

I don't see too much celebrating in HS besides a strong bicep flex, and that's okay as long as it's not directed to the opposing teams way.

I'm not one easily offended by those small gestures.:cool:

[twcpfan1]

Thanks Bobcat81. Exactly what I was looking for.

I'm surprised pointing at the scoreboard's direction is not on the list. Unless I missed it.

[LoneRocket]

That official should be slapped and dismissed. It's a dead ball foul - you never, ever call a play back for that. Ejected for flipping is beyond absurd too. What are your boys doing over there in reffing school Lone?

LOL,the worst call I had seen was against Westfield one of our defensive players horse collared the quarterback. The ref on the other end of the field called a 15 yard face mask.

[LoneRocket]

Taunting is bad!:mad: Celebrating is great!:notworthy
There is a fine line ladies and gentlemen.
I enjoy a small celebration, but who's to say what's small.

I don't see too much celebrating in HS besides a strong bicep flex, and that's okay as long as it's not directed to the opposing teams way.

I'm not one easily offended by those small gestures.:cool:

Does that mean our kickoff team can't crank that Soulja boy before kickoff?:D

[Boss Hawgette]

Thank you T.O., Chad Johnson, etc. You've been wonderful role models for our young men.

[CCBoy]

Does that mean our kickoff team can't crank that Soulja boy before kickoff?:D

By all means................CRANK IT!!

[Bobcat81]

Here's the link to the UIL website, but i think the officials website has more details on the rules as applied to conduct on the field.

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/rules/index.html

[War_Bird]

The SLC-Abilene game will be rebroadcast tonight and tomorrow night and I will be watching closely for the alleged taunts.
This is not the same broadcast that I viewed earlier on channel 21 out of the metroplex, but Abilene's local broadcast team which should have different camera angles, etc.

[LoneRocket]

When we were at the state semi's last year Rosenburg Lamar's band started playing and the defense started dancing. We were thinking okay this is interesting then the 09er's burned them for a 40 yard TD.

[Bobcat81]

Thanks Bobcat81. Exactly what I was looking for.

I'm surprised pointing at the scoreboard's direction is not on the list. Unless I missed it.

No prob..

As you can see by the wording, ""Examples of such acts include, but are not limited to:",... They pretty much leave each incident up to the discretion of the refs at any given game in time.

Question i would like to know is,..how to challenge a game altering call that falls under the "not limited to" use by the official.

[Nick]

2 examples come immediately to mind:
Henry Melton at Grapevine a few years back and Riley Dodge at SLC this year.

Both would point to the opposing team after making a "big" play. Neither were ever flagged for it although a couple of Melton's team mates would pull him away. Coach Mullins finally set him down for a series.

[78 Spartan]

On Saturday a Clements defensive back who was positioned towards the Stratford sideline was yapping at the bench after plays and repeatedly pointing at the scoreboard which showed, at the time, Clements ahead 28-21. This behavior went on for two or three plays before he was pancaked by a Stratford WR throwing a particularly emphatic downfield block. Whereupon the Clements DB jumped up again and started pointing at the scoreboard.

Now I'm sure that the Clements kid wasn't the only one yapping; but he was the only one being demonstrative about it.

The officials noticed the brewing problem and issued a warning to both coaches and I think that shut down the sideshow. It was an example of good, proactive officiating.

The kid was just being immature about it. Officials tolerate a fair amount of lip between the players so long as it's not escalating towards a fight and so long as certain words are not used. But when the behavior gets demonstrable where the crowd can see what's going on, it's time for the officials to jump in and put a stop to it, which is what they did. The last thing you want to see is player behavior inciting the crowd. That's when things get ugly.

I'm sure had it continued, someone would have been hit with a 15-yarder.

[TigerHat]

All of the displays taunting, etc. began with a single NFL player: Jets defensive end Mark Gastineau. I think his "sack dance" ruined the game. I really really loved watching him get the :Censor: beaten out of him when he tried pro boxing. A journeyman boxer not only beat him up , he knocked him out cold.

If I never see another NFL clown act on the field it will not be soon enough. I hate seeing them in the High School game.

Here is a hint players: that stuff is as much a part of the game as bird droppings are part of your car.

[cyfallsbooster2]

All of the displays taunting, etc. began with a single NFL player: Jets defensive end Mark Gastineau. I think his "sack dance" ruined the game. I really really loved watching him get the :Censor: beaten out of him when he tried pro boxing. A journeyman boxer not only beat him up , he knocked him out cold.

If I never see another NFL clown act on the field it will not be soon enough. I hate seeing them in the High School game.

Here is a hint players: that stuff is as much a part of the game as bird droppings are part of your car.

Amen.

[tigerbd]

Thanks Bobcat81. Exactly what I was looking for.

I'm surprised pointing at the scoreboard's direction is not on the list. Unless I missed it.
The list is just examples of acts that are prohibited.

What the rule prohibits is, among other things, "acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent".

I would think pointing at the scoreboard probably fits that description.

[youtellatale]

Coming from a soccer background, I must say that I dislike the cut downs on celebrations. Referees in soccer have elimated just about every celebration that was once famous and is now punishable by a yellow card. I think that sports should be fun, taunting should never be tolerated anywhere on a field of play but celebrating is ok. Diving into the endzone, while dumb, shouldn't be a penalty. The player is excited and I think that's ok. Celebrate when you score and enjoy it with your teammates. The NFL is becoming the No Fun League and I hope that soon people will realize that sports are for the players and spectators and that they should be allowed to celebrate. Agree with me or not, sports are supposed to be fun and you should be allowed to show your enthusiasm.

[STB24]

Coming from a soccer background, I must say that I dislike the cut downs on celebrations. Referees in soccer have elimated just about every celebration that was once famous and is now punishable by a yellow card. I think that sports should be fun, taunting should never be tolerated anywhere on a field of play but celebrating is ok. Diving into the endzone, while dumb, shouldn't be a penalty. The player is excited and I think that's ok. Celebrate when you score and enjoy it with your teammates. The NFL is becoming the No Fun League and I hope that soon people will realize that sports are for the players and spectators and that they should be allowed to celebrate. Agree with me or not, sports are supposed to be fun and you should be allowed to show your enthusiasm.

agreed.

[odessapermian.com]

The most obvious issue of a taunt is the throat slash sign - which is a 100% guarantee of a penalty.

Chris Williams of Abilene did that 2-3 times when they played Permian. No flag. :eek:

[MojoMathMom]

I promise I won't do it anymore CavDad:p

OH, you're talking about the PLAYERS!!

ROFLMAO

[twcpfan1]

When the All Blacks decided to incorporate throat slashing into their version of the Haka, the Wallabies (Australian Rugby team) took exception to it. Of course their version also does it right in the opponent's face.

[slcdragonfan]

All of the displays taunting, etc. began with a single NFL player: Jets defensive end Mark Gastineau. I think his "sack dance" ruined the game. I really really loved watching him get the :Censor: beaten out of him when he tried pro boxing. A journeyman boxer not only beat him up , he knocked him out cold.

If I never see another NFL clown act on the field it will not be soon enough. I hate seeing them in the High School game.

Here is a hint players: that stuff is as much a part of the game as bird droppings are part of your car.

One of the (many) reasons I loved watching Earl Campbell play was that when he scored he would either place the ball down where he scored or toss it to the ref, just doing what was expected of him and being humble about it.

[AFBroGermany]

I was watching the Army all american bowl a few years back and the runningback from the north team broke away from everyone on a long run. He was by himself heading toward the endzone when he decided to dive into it. He dove to early and landed 10 yards short of the endzone. I think the drive was stopped after that and the north ended up kicking a field goal instead of scoring a TD

[KTCheer]

I remember we were called for excessive celebration in 2005 in the Cy-Falls game after we came back from being down by 17 points I think. On our last score our boys were of course excited and celebrating, which seemed natural to me. I don't think it was an "in your face" type celebration as much as "I can't believe we did that" type. We were still penalized.