Leach is all but gone

[jtk1519]

Next stop on Pirate Mike's liquored up coaching cruise appears to be Los Angeles. Word is that Dorrell will be fired after the USC game (regardless of the outcome) and Leach will be named the new HC within a week. The numbers going around are 5 years, $8.5 million which would be a decent raise for the pirate and significantly more than what Dorrell was making.

Furthermore, it looks like the pirate was recruiting in Arkiesaws, but it wasn't high school players he's recruiting. Leach is supposedly going to bring Arkie State Co-DC Kevin Corless along as his DC.

What's interesting is how all of this relates to Briles.

[HUM398]

Next stop on Pirate Mike's liquored up coaching cruise appears to be Los Angeles. Word is that Dorrell will be fired after the USC game (regardless of the outcome) and Leach will be named the new HC within a week. The numbers going around are 5 years, $8.5 million which would be a decent raise for the pirate and significantly more than what Dorrell was making.

Furthermore, it looks like the pirate was recruiting in Arkiesaws, but it wasn't high school players he's recruiting. Leach is supposedly going to bring Arkie State Co-DC Kevin Corless along as his DC.

What's interesting is how all of this relates to Briles.

Interesting...

[HUM398]

I say Briles stays..

[BDB]

he better if he knows what's good for him

[HUM398]

he better if he knows what's good for him

Just seems to me that he would of already known that Leach was going to leave or not...and decided he wanted Waco over Lubbock...Plus, who doesn't want to hang around all the HSBG ( Hot Southern Baptist Girls)...

[lonny23]

Next stop on Pirate Mike's liquored up coaching cruise appears to be Los Angeles. Word is that Dorrell will be fired after the USC game (regardless of the outcome) and Leach will be named the new HC within a week. The numbers going around are 5 years, $8.5 million which would be a decent raise for the pirate and significantly more than what Dorrell was making.

Furthermore, it looks like the pirate was recruiting in Arkiesaws, but it wasn't high school players he's recruiting. Leach is supposedly going to bring Arkie State Co-DC Kevin Corless along as his DC.

What's interesting is how all of this relates to Briles.
1. Leach will average about $2.25 million a year at Tech over the next 3 years.
2. That plane was flying to El Dorado, not Jonesboro where Arky State is at.

[jtk1519]

1. Leach will average about $2.25 million a year at Tech over the next 3 years.
2. That plane was flying to El Dorado, not Jonesboro where Arky State is at.

And he will continue battling for 3rd place with A&M in the Big XII South. At UCLA, he can compete right off the bat. This is a great time to get in the Pac 10. USC is as down as they have been in a while, Cal and Oregon will both be losing a lot and Erickson proved how quickly you can get off the ground in the Pac 10. California is the pirate's home and the pirate is going back home.

[CLFalcon2006]

If Briles stays at Baylor, Leach does leave, Tech avoids Graham, and Arkansas highers someone bad, things will have undoubtly worked in A&M's favor!

[v2the4]

Ive told people on this board, espn and foxsports that the first job in California that opens up, rather it was Cal or UCLA, since they are both PAC 10 schools, then he was out....I told people the only way Karl Dorrell could survive a firing was to beat USC and take UCLA to the Rose Bowl...UCLA had 20 returning starters, and even though they lost 3 QBs to injurys, 3 RBs to season ending injuries, and 3 of thier top 6 WR's to injuries, they are still UCLA...they are supposed to beat Wazzu and Arizona St and Utah and especially Notre Dames weak a-ss... the best they can do is 7-5, IF they beat USC..but thats almost like asking a valley team to beat ANY San Antonio area school in the third round...wont happen..

So, now Leach will head to the Rose Bowl and get the big name he covets and will bring the spread offense, the vertical passing game to UCLA....imagine what kind of recruits he will get out there!!! and, since Cali is supposed to be a QB recruiting heaven, he will have his pick of the litter from LA, San Diego, the Bay Area, and Silicon Valley....

UCLA is currently number two Pac 10 team vs the run, but second to last vs the Pass, so he better bring in a secondary coach if he gets this job..

[BDB]

If Briles stays at Baylor, Leach does leave, Tech avoids Graham, and Arkansas highers someone bad, things will have undoubtly worked in A&M's favor!

except that bible aggy has a better shot at beating you now.

[lonny23]

And he will continue battling for 3rd place with A&M in the Big XII South. At UCLA, he can compete right off the bat. This is a great time to get in the Pac 10. USC is as down as they have been in a while, Cal and Oregon will both be losing a lot and Erickson proved how quickly you can get off the ground in the Pac 10. California is the pirate's home and the pirate is going back home.
He's not going to UCLA.

[jtk1519]

He's not going to UCLA.

From what I am hearing, the Tech AD has already started his search and one of the guys he has already contacted is Oakland's Lane Kiffen who has recently expressed some desires to return to the college game.

The Pirate had fun and has always had great things to say about Tech and Lubbock, but he's at that stage now where he wants to be at a program that can compete for championships.

BTW, a lot of this info supposedly comes from somebody close to Wolforth Frenship QB Seth Doege who the Pirate is supposedly trying to convince to come to UCLA.

[slorch]

No 790 in houston yesterday said he was going to be the next coach at Arkiesaw...


your argument about UCLA is flawed too.
UCLA would still be 3rd or 4th in the Pac10 after USC, Oregon, and Cal/ ASU

USC may be down, but so is Texas

That salary you mentioned in not a raise

Doege can go to UCLA, he hasn't played in two years because his knee ligaments are made of spaghetti

nice try horatio whornsblower

[lonny23]

No 790 in houston yesterday said he was going to be the next coach at Arkiesaw...


your argument about UCLA is flawed too.
UCLA would still be 3rd or 4th in the Pac10 after USC, Oregon, and Cal/ ASU

USC may be down, but so is Texas

That salary you mentioned in not a raise

Doege can go to UCLA, he hasn't played in two years because his knee ligaments are made of spaghetti

nice try horatio whornsblowerI reported what 790 said and blew holes in the argument before it got on here. Leach didn't go to Fayetteville or Jonesboro. He flew into El Dorado so he could take a trip to Camden. He went to Lavunce Askew's house yesterday.

I know jtk is just making stuff up, but it's my job to refute rumors that can hurt Tech. Somebody was fooling around with Mike Leach's wikipedia page and added a rumors paragraph.

As far as UCLA goes, they have a chance to win and are in a good state. It would take at least $3M a year before I'd even think Leach would consider UCLA. There is no reason for him to go to Arkysaw.

[lonny23]

From what I am hearing, the Tech AD has already started his search and one of the guys he has already contacted is Oakland's Lane Kiffen who has recently expressed some desires to return to the college game.

The Pirate had fun and has always had great things to say about Tech and Lubbock, but he's at that stage now where he wants to be at a program that can compete for championships.

BTW, a lot of this info supposedly comes from somebody close to Wolforth Frenship QB Seth Doege who the Pirate is supposedly trying to convince to come to UCLA.You mean the kid that goes to every game and calls other potential recruits to come to Tech!:D I think that kid has more loyalty to Tech than he does to Leach himself.

You're full of crap and I know it. I just don't want others to run with your bogus info.

[cougardude]

I reported what 790 said and blew holes in the argument before it got on here. Leach didn't go to Fayetteville or Jonesboro. He flew into El Dorado so he could take a trip to Camden. He went to Lavunce Askew's house yesterday.

I know jtk is just making stuff up, but it's my job to refute rumors that can hurt Tech. Somebody was fooling around with Mike Leach's wikipedia page and added a rumors paragraph.

As far as UCLA goes, they have a chance to win and are in a good state. It would take at least $3M a year before I'd even think Leach would consider UCLA. There is no reason for him to go to Arkysaw.

Just curious, do you work for Texas Tech?

[CLFalcon2006]

except that bible aggy has a better shot at beating you now.

Baylor already has a good shot at beating us, this move would just bring Tech down to our level :D

[CLFalcon2006]

Why wouldn't Leach go to UCLA, isn't he a Cali guy and isn't LA a heck of an upgrade over LBK?

[BigRing5311]

Just curious, do you work for Texas Tech?

Well it looks like cougardude has figured it out. Lonny is Leach's REAL agent, the other guy is just a diversion.

BTW...the true rumor is that UCLA is only interested in a package deal...Leach and Knight :D

[HUM398]

Its funny to watch lonny squirm.... Because he knows, without Leach..tech isnt much.

But without Mack, Texas still is Texas...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Mhs06]

Its funny to watch lonny squirm.... Because he knows, without Leach..tech isnt much.

But without Mack, Texas still is Texas...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tech will be fine without Leach, you can mark my words on that.

I still dont want him to go.

[HUM398]

Tech will be fine without Leach, you can mark my words on that.

I still dont want him to go.

with Tech's luck, they'll get another Jerry Moore.

[Reaganrattler07]

He's not going to UCLA.

(Mike Gundy voice) "IT"S NOT TRUUUUUUEEEE!"

You're in denial. That's ok.

From what I am hearing, the Tech AD has already started his search and one of the guys he has already contacted is Oakland's Lane Kiffen who has recently expressed some desires to return to the college game.

The Pirate had fun and has always had great things to say about Tech and Lubbock, but he's at that stage now where he wants to be at a program that can compete for championships.

BTW, a lot of this info supposedly comes from somebody close to Wolforth Frenship QB Seth Doege who the Pirate is supposedly trying to convince to come to UCLA.

But I thought Tceh was going to be the best Big XII team in a few years? :laugh

I reported what 790 said and blew holes in the argument before it got on here. Leach didn't go to Fayetteville or Jonesboro. He flew into El Dorado so he could take a trip to Camden. He went to Lavunce Askew's house yesterday.

I know jtk is just making stuff up, but it's my job to refute rumors that can hurt Tech. Somebody was fooling around with Mike Leach's wikipedia page and added a rumors paragraph.

As far as UCLA goes, they have a chance to win and are in a good state. It would take at least $3M a year before I'd even think Leach would consider UCLA. There is no reason for him to go to Arkysaw.

:laugh

You provide your own material.

Even though you're not a true Judson Rocket. You're as close to one as a fake one could be.

[Firebird]

Tech fans will come to detest Leach if this turns out to be true. I absolutely can't stand his act of playing it coy and "shooting straight" without really telling you anything at all. I'd almost rather have a coach stand up there and be blatantly dishonest.

This would be a bad season to lose a coach-- the coaching carousel is really spinning, and some higher-profile jobs than Tech's are likely to go to backup candidates. It's gonna be a painful blow to the Raiders to lose Leach and then realize the best realistic replacement is already locked up down in Waco.

[slorch]

Its funny to watch lonny squirm.... Because he knows, without Leach..tech isnt much.

But without Mack, Texas still is Texas...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

yeah, Mack never taught them how to be arrogant...

that was instilled decades ago.

[slorch]

with Tech's luck, they'll get another Jerry Moore.

after the winning he's been doing at App State, bring it on...

[slorch]

Tech fans will come to detest Leach if this turns out to be true. I absolutely can't stand his act of playing it coy and "shooting straight" without really telling you anything at all. I'd almost rather have a coach stand up there and be blatantly dishonest.

This would be a bad season to lose a coach-- the coaching carousel is really spinning, and some higher-profile jobs than Tech's are likely to go to backup candidates. It's gonna be a painful blow to the Raiders to lose Leach and then realize the best realistic replacement is already locked up down in Waco.

I've already been thinking of how I would feel about Leach if he left. Contrary to your take, I don't mind his 3rd party-like attitude. i see a guy that would leave Tech better than he found it, with a possible outstanding recruiting class coming up. it wouldn't be like the guy that wins with a senior-laden squad and then bails. This is another reason I don't think he's leaving. There is too much pointing to next year being a great season. Heck, his loyalty to Harrell alone is reason he would not leave...:D

Back to the subject, I would look at leach as someone who did everything he was brought to Tech to do, and then some. The football program has become as viable financially and X's and O's-wise, as it has ever been. The best thing about that is it does not appear to be tapped out. Yes it is the coach's job to get over the "potential" label with his team. As dissappointed as I was with a couple of the losses this season, Tech still had the second yougest team in the nation, and probably will play in the Gator Bowl. i think my dissappointment alone, says it for me. The very feeling that there could be more, tells me leach is working towards even better goals.

If the incoming recruiting class was terrible. If Tech laid down to OU. If Graham Harrell announced he was going pro( insane, I know, but stick with me here) if Tech wasn't going to have such an experienced squad next year, then I could say Leach lied and fully intended to leave. there's just too much stuff that says he's focused on his job at Tech. as Red Raiders, that's more than we have gotten from some folks in the past.

[HUM398]

after the winning he's been doing at App State, bring it on...

Its one thing to beat an overrated Michigan team, its something completely different to allow yourself that Div II success can equate to BCS success....

Remember, lonny has already proclaimed Tech supremacy in about a half a decade...

[slorch]

Its one thing to beat an overrated Michigan team, its something completely different to allow yourself that Div II success can equate to BCS success....

Remember, lonny has already proclaimed Tech supremacy in about a half a decade...

I was just joking with your own joke. Moore has been much more successful in Boone, NC than he ever was in Lubbock.

I was thinking for a microsecond, what if JTK is right, who would i want.

How's this name grab ya?

Jerry Gray.

1) Lubbock native( Estacado High)
2)Texas college legend
3)played in LA, coached in Buffalo( the point here being, he has contacts all over the country)
4) defensive minded, plus it's from a DB perspective, in an increasingly pass happy era

This is just hypothetical, because we all know JTK is WRONG on this one.(I hope):D

[lonny23]

Just curious, do you work for Texas Tech?
No, but I feel responsible to not allow rumors to float that hurt the university.

I know the Orange County Register is reporting that people at UCLA are wanting to talk to Leach about the job.

I don't doubt that's true. I just don't think he's going to take the job unless they throw a boatload of money at him and many question whether the UC system would bite off on a $3M coach, which is what I think it will take.

[lonny23]

Why wouldn't Leach go to UCLA, isn't he a Cali guy and isn't LA a heck of an upgrade over LBK?
He's not a Cali guy. He was born there, but lived most of his childhood in Wyoming and claims Cody as his hometown. He went to BYU and later on spent time at Pepperdine to get a Law degree.

He's coached in Cali for a total of 2 years. Including the 4 years he was in law school and coaching, he's probably sprent less time living in the state than he has in Texas.

[Reaganrattler07]

I was just joking with your own joke. Moore has been much more successful in Boone, NC than he ever was in Lubbock.

I was thinking for a microsecond, what if JTK is right, who would i want.

How's this name grab ya?

Jerry Gray.

1) Lubbock native( Estacado High)
2)Texas college legend
3)played in LA, coached in Buffalo( the point here being, he has contacts all over the country)
4) defensive minded, plus it's from a DB perspective, in an increasingly pass happy era

This is just hypothetical, because we all know JTK is WRONG on this one.(I hope):D


Isn't he a Skin? (coach)

[lonny23]

Its funny to watch lonny squirm.... Because he knows, without Leach..tech isnt much.

But without Mack, Texas still is Texas...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Tech will do fine and get a good coach if Leach ever leaves.

I'd be more worried if UT had a better AD/boosters. You'll never have the best coaches as long as you have to deal with them.

[lonny23]

Tech fans will come to detest Leach if this turns out to be true. I absolutely can't stand his act of playing it coy and "shooting straight" without really telling you anything at all. I'd almost rather have a coach stand up there and be blatantly dishonest.

This would be a bad season to lose a coach-- the coaching carousel is really spinning, and some higher-profile jobs than Tech's are likely to go to backup candidates. It's gonna be a painful blow to the Raiders to lose Leach and then realize the best realistic replacement is already locked up down in Waco.
I'm not worried because Tech could steal a good coach from elsewhere. The groundwork with a little fine tuning is there to do great things at Tech and they'll pay for a good coach. The bonus is Tech doesn't have some of the baggage of A&M and UT that keeps away many coaches.

[lonny23]

I've already been thinking of how I would feel about Leach if he left. Contrary to your take, I don't mind his 3rd party-like attitude. i see a guy that would leave Tech better than he found it, with a possible outstanding recruiting class coming up. it wouldn't be like the guy that wins with a senior-laden squad and then bails. This is another reason I don't think he's leaving. There is too much pointing to next year being a great season. Heck, his loyalty to Harrell alone is reason he would not leave...:D

Back to the subject, I would look at leach as someone who did everything he was brought to Tech to do, and then some. The football program has become as viable financially and X's and O's-wise, as it has ever been. The best thing about that is it does not appear to be tapped out. Yes it is the coach's job to get over the "potential" label with his team. As dissappointed as I was with a couple of the losses this season, Tech still had the second yougest team in the nation, and probably will play in the Gator Bowl. i think my dissappointment alone, says it for me. The very feeling that there could be more, tells me leach is working towards even better goals.

If the incoming recruiting class was terrible. If Tech laid down to OU. If Graham Harrell announced he was going pro( insane, I know, but stick with me here) if Tech wasn't going to have such an experienced squad next year, then I could say Leach lied and fully intended to leave. there's just too much stuff that says he's focused on his job at Tech. as Red Raiders, that's more than we have gotten from some folks in the past.All I know is Leach has been back and forth like Ricochet Rabbit the last week. If he was leaving, he would not be putting the effort he's putting into recruiting right now and his assistants wouldn't be doing it, either. You can pretty much figure he's going to take some of those guys with him. The Tech coaching staff has been working 2OT trying to get a killer 08 recruiting class. They want to win in Lubbock. It's not like the potential of a UCLA job just came up. Leach to UCLA was discussed quite a while ago and most of the season.

[jtk1519]

I don't doubt that's true. I just don't think he's going to take the job unless they throw a boatload of money at him and many question whether the UC system would bite off on a $3M coach, which is what I think it will take.

You know very good and well that Leach is not a "money" coach. You know he's a competitor and money does not get in the way of that. He has a far better chance of competing at a much higher level at UCLA then he ever will have at Tech.

[Firebird]

From what I am hearing, the Tech AD has already started his search and one of the guys he has already contacted is Oakland's Lane Kiffen who has recently expressed some desires to return to the college game.

The Pirate had fun and has always had great things to say about Tech and Lubbock, but he's at that stage now where he wants to be at a program that can compete for championships.

BTW, a lot of this info supposedly comes from somebody close to Wolforth Frenship QB Seth Doege who the Pirate is supposedly trying to convince to come to UCLA.


Wow, two uses of "supposedly" in the same sentence. I'll say this about Leach. He's a madman, but I do not believe he is unethical. I find it hard to believe that he is actively trying to get a Tech commit to switch his commitment to UCLA while he's still on the Texas Tech payroll. That's a bit far-fetched. That he's out there trying to undermine the Tech program while he is still head coach.

[Firebird]

I'm not worried because Tech could steal a good coach from elsewhere. The groundwork with a little fine tuning is there to do great things at Tech and they'll pay for a good coach. The bonus is Tech doesn't have some of the baggage of A&M and UT that keeps away many coaches.

Have you lost all sense of perspective? Do you really believe that Tech is at an advantage versus UT and even TAMU with regards to hiring a good coach. The "baggage" of which you speak is what makes good coaches want to work at those places.

[lonny23]

Wow, two uses of "supposedly" in the same sentence. I'll say this about Leach. He's a madman, but I do not believe he is unethical. I find it hard to believe that he is actively trying to get a Tech commit to switch his commitment to UCLA while he's still on the Texas Tech payroll. That's a bit far-fetched. That he's out there trying to undermine the Tech program while he is still head coach.
I'm not buying the Doege story.

[lonny23]

Have you lost all sense of perspective? Do you really believe that Tech is at an advantage versus UT and even TAMU with regards to hiring a good coach. The "baggage" of which you speak is what makes good coaches want to work at those places.
I have perfect perspective.

UT and A&M should both be Top 10 programs and fighting for Top 5 every year.

They're not doing it because they don't have Top 10 coaches and that's because of things behind the scenes. A&M and Texas are jobs that everybody should want, but none of the big boys are dropping their headsets to head to Texas.

It's real simple. The best players come from Texas, Florida, and California.

The best players go to BCS schools:

CA 4
TX 4
FL 4

UT and A&M should trump Tech and Baylor. They also beat out Stanford and South Florida.

That makes them 7th or 8th in the desire chart at worst. UT and A&M have better facilities than most of the others and pay better. They're better jobs on paper, but they don't get coaches that correlate to the benefits:

THERE ARE TOO MANY MORONS IN AUSTIN AND COLLEGE STATION THAT KEEP BETTER COACHES AWAY.

I'm not complaining because I'm loving it.

I don't care about Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Michigan, or Ohio State. The Texas teams could be better every year if they had their act straight.

[jtk1519]

I have perfect perspective.

UT and A&M should both be Top 10 programs and fighting for Top 5 every year.

Ummm... Texas has been a top 10 team under Mack Brown. Average final ranking since he showed up has been #10 and 3 times they have finished in the top 5 since 2000... they finished ranked #6 in 2001. Texas currently has more consecutive 10 win seasons than any other program out there, Mack is the winningest coach since 2000. Texas has the longest active streak of top 25 AP finishes and no program or coach has more BCS national championships than Mack Brown and Texas.

lonny, there are times when I'm convinced you are the world's greatest fisherman and all you are doing is trolling for a new catch. There's no way you can possibly mean half of what you stay and still have the mental abilities with which to tie your own shoes.

[jtk1519]

BTW, the moron in Austin is 7-1 vs. the super-genius in Lubbock. Since Tech can attract and hire much better coaches than Texas, I suggest they find one immediately because they are getting straight embarrassed by a program with all that baggage... you know... talent, money, facilities, tradition, championships, history, etc. I'm sure Bill Belichick would beat down the door for the chance to lead the Red Raiders, what with all of their money and awesome resources and no baggage.

[lonny23]

Ummm... Texas has been a top 10 team under Mack Brown. Average final ranking since he showed up has been #10 and 3 times they have finished in the top 5 since 2000... they finished ranked #6 in 2001. Texas currently has more consecutive 10 win seasons than any other program out there, Mack is the winningest coach since 2000. Texas has the longest active streak of top 25 AP finishes and no program or coach has more BCS national championships than Mack Brown and Texas.

lonny, there are times when I'm convinced you are the world's greatest fisherman and all you are doing is trolling for a new catch. There's no way you can possibly mean half of what you stay and still have the mental abilities with which to tie your own shoes.
They should be doing more. If the last number in your record is 2 or more, you're doing something wrong.

[jtk1519]

They should be doing more. If the last number in your record is 2 or more, you're doing something wrong.

Says the Tech fan. Oh, irony.

I say Tech should be doing more since they don't have all the "baggage" and can easily bring in better coaches than A&M or Texas. I think Tech needs to fire the Pirate before he quits and hire Jim Tressel as their HC, Pete Carroll as their DC and June Jones as their OC. Tech doesn't have any baggage so they can pay each of those guys $5 million a year and win a bazillion games.

[lonny23]

BTW, the moron in Austin is 7-1 vs. the super-genius in Lubbock. Since Tech can attract and hire much better coaches than Texas, I suggest they find one immediately because they are getting straight embarrassed by a program with all that baggage... you know... talent, money, facilities, tradition, championships, history, etc. I'm sure Bill Belichick would beat down the door for the chance to lead the Red Raiders, what with all of their money and awesome resources and no baggage.
I wasn't calling Mack a moron. I was talking about your athletic department and boosters. That's what keeps you from getting a better coach. Texas is a job that everybody in the country should want to beat the door down to take. I'm talking about getting BCS conference coaches to switch schools good.

[lonny23]

Says the Tech fan. Oh, irony.
The shame in all of this is that you're a Texas fan and should be busting their balls about not winning more and not having to hear it from me.

You spout off all the advantages and there are many, but yet you defend mediocrity.

I'm tied to a team that doesn't have as much, but yet I expect more than you do.

[jtk1519]

I wasn't calling Mack a moron. I was talking about your athletic department and boosters. That's what keeps you from getting a better coach. Texas is a job that everybody in the country should want to beat the door down to take. I'm talking about getting BCS conference coaches to switch schools good.

Uhhh, you mean this athletic department...

http://www.utexasclan.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/Sports_Illustrated_cover_02_10_07.jpg

The same athletic department that has absolutely dominated the Big XII and national scene in multiple sports? The athletic department that leads the conference with 12 national titles won since the formation of the conference (that's 12 more than Tech with their lack of baggage has won BTW)? Are we talking about the same Texas athletic department that leads the Big XII in conference titles won with more than 88... that's 23 more conference titles than the rest of the Big XII schools in Texas combined (and 80 conference titles more than Tech who is better because they don't have all the baggage)? Oh lonny, you make me laugh so hard I can barely contain myself.

[jtk1519]

The shame in all of this is that you're a Texas fan and should be busting their balls about not winning more and not having to hear it from me.

You spout off all the advantages and there are many, but yet you defend mediocrity.

I'm tied to a team that doesn't have as much, but yet I expect more than you do.

I have done no such thing. I am the one that was bashed on here for saying Big XII titles are irrelevant unless they lead to national titles. Nobody has higher expectations for Texas than myself. Where you and I differ though is that every now and then I come back down to reality and step away and realize that despite how I may feel at this moment, the big picture says beyond doubt that when it comes to football or athletic department achievements as a whole, the number of programs in this country that rival Texas can literally be counted on one hand... and one of those programs is not in Lubbock... despite having less baggage to worry about.

[lonny23]

Uhhh, you mean this athletic department...

http://www.utexasclan.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/Sports_Illustrated_cover_02_10_07.jpg

The same athletic department that has absolutely dominated the Big XII and national scene in multiple sports? The athletic department that leads the conference with 12 national titles won since the formation of the conference (that's 12 more than Tech with their lack of baggage has won BTW)? Are we talking about the same Texas athletic department that leads the Big XII in conference titles won with more than 88... that's 23 more conference titles than the rest of the Big XII schools in Texas combined (and 80 conference titles more than Tech who is better because they don't have all the baggage)? Oh lonny, you make me laugh so hard I can barely contain myself.
I don't care how many titles you've won. I know what you win and don't win. I know you bring in a lot of money and have great facilities.

I'm talking about some problem, whether it's the AD or the big-money boosters that has led to not getting the absolute best men's basketball and football coaches money can buy.

All the extra money you make helps fund the low-budget sports that have given you most of those titles. I could care less about the swimming titles when only like 4 people compete.

I never said the Tech athletic program was better because it's not right now. The overall program may never be better. All I said was that there are certain things that aren't a detriment at Tech that are at A&M and Texas. I said nothing about the advantages that UT and A&M have over Tech, because they're there.

As far as the Tech program goes, they're making progress across the board in all the sports. They're behind Texas, but they're headed in the right direction.

All I ever said about Tech and Texas was that we'd have a better football program in 5 years if things keep going the way they are now. I said nothing about the other sports.

[lonny23]

I have done no such thing. I am the one that was bashed on here for saying Big XII titles are irrelevant unless they lead to national titles. Nobody has higher expectations for Texas than myself. Where you and I differ though is that every now and then I come back down to reality and step away and realize that despite how I may feel at this moment, the big picture says beyond doubt that when it comes to football or athletic department achievements as a whole, the number of programs in this country that rival Texas can literally be counted on one hand... and one of those programs is not in Lubbock... despite having less baggage to worry about.
The point is Texas should be #1 and it starts with football. You need the #1 football team before you worry about the rest of the teams being #1.

[jtk1519]

The point is Texas should be #1 and it starts with football. You need the #1 football team before you worry about the rest of the teams being #1.

Tell that to the baseball team. Texas did things the right way. They built the athletic programs as a whole so that no one sport was ruling everything. Texas not only has a perennial top 10 football team, but arguably the best overall athletic program in the nation.

[lonny23]

Tell that to the baseball team. Texas did things the right way. They built the athletic programs as a whole so that no one sport was ruling everything. Texas not only has a perennial top 10 football team, but arguably the best overall athletic program in the nation.
The baseball program did right becuse they hired the right guy. Texas should have an Augie Garrido in every sport.

[jtk1519]

The baseball program did right becuse they hired the right guy. Texas should have an Augie Garrido in every sport.

I thought there was too much baggage? Perhaps a case can be made against Rick Barnes, but the only true judge of football coaches are wins and championships and in that area, there are very few whose resume compares to Mack's. I know you hate the fact that the guy has absolutely owned Tech since he arrived, but facts are facts. Texas fans complain more than any, but the reality is that there are only three coaches alive that have done better than Mack since he came to Austin (Pete Carroll, Jim Tressel and Darth Visor). Maybe top 5 out of the last 200+ coaches to work in 1A over the last 10 years is not good enough for you, but your expectations rarely make sense anyway.

[slorch]

Tell that to the baseball team. Texas did things the right way. They built the athletic programs as a whole so that no one sport was ruling everything. Texas not only has a perennial top 10 football team, but arguably the best overall athletic program in the nation.

that payroll has to be prety big by now...:rolleyes:

I think alot of my feelings are rooted back even to the 70's and 80's when everyone in the SWC got busted for recruiting violations except Texas, it seemed like. then when the hammer came down on everyone, Texas fell back to the pack.

I don't identify with the baggage Lonny is talking about. Texas is a top 5 program and any coach would feel like he reached the pinnacle of his profession by being the top guy there. That being said, when I look at what Tech does and what Texas does, it is only natural for me to dream about how good our team would be with the players Texas gets, with our "gimmicky" offense that blows the doors off of people. If we ever get a DC that is above average, it is my contention that Tech will be able to play with anyone.
It is my opinion that with the talent that Texas has, they should never lose 2 games in a season. fair or unfair, that is how much better their players are. I will say that the Tech game this year impressed me, because Mack finally went outside the box on his play calling and got outside his comfort zone. look how it paid off. We have already discussed how many Tech kids would start for the Horns. It's not many.

That's where the feelings of underachievement come from. You can throw out the SI cover for winning Frisbee Golf and Horseshoe championships, because we all know it comes down to 2 sports in college. Texas has a storied tradition in baseball, but we all all know college baseball is not where most of the talent goes. It is unfathomable to me how Texas has only won one MNC since 1971. I'm sorry it just is. yes it's more than Tech has ever won, yada, yada, yada. Is that what you compare yourself to? A team you are 7-1 against in the last 8 years? I still beleive VY is the only reason Mack won his MNC, and he will not win one again without another phenom. You could say that is unfair, but look at the OU and LSU championships. Who is the single best player from those teams? jason White? justin Vincent?

I feel like with the players that Texas gets they should at least be playing in the MNC similarly to how LSU, USC, and OU have been. Yes with OU in the same conference, it makes it tricky. welcome to competition. if there was no need for that, you could join the Conference USA or something, right?

Mack has learned some tough lessons, and that is what makes someone successful- to keep on getting up when you get knocked on your keister. I don't think the Simms/ applewhite deal would ever go down that way again. i already mentioned the play calling. I also believe he has adjusted his play calling style a bit. I also think they might be getting a bit more selective in the character of their recruits, following the recent troubles.

I just don't like seeing talent wasted, that's why I close my eyes when Tech is on defense!:D That is my biggest point of contention about Texas, at least in the X's and O's sense. throw all the numbers up there you want, and then tell me you are pleased with a season like this one. the Hornsfans I know are pissed, because they think the Holiday Bowl is a form of pentance, not a reward. How do you feel?

[Firebird]

that payroll has to be prety big by now...:rolleyes:

I think alot of my feelings are rooted back even to the 70's and 80's when everyone in the SWC got busted for recruiting violations except Texas, it seemed like. then when the hammer came down on everyone, Texas fell back to the pack.

I don't identify with the baggage Lonny is talking about. Texas is a top 5 program and any coach would feel like he reached the pinnacle of his profession by being the top guy there. That being said, when I look at what Tech does and what Texas does, it is only natural for me to dream about how good our team would be with the players Texas gets, with our "gimmicky" offense that blows the doors off of people. If we ever get a DC that is above average, it is my contention that Tech will be able to play with anyone.
It is my opinion that with the talent that Texas has, they should never lose 2 games in a season. fair or unfair, that is how much better their players are. I will say that the Tech game this year impressed me, because Mack finally went outside the box on his play calling and got outside his comfort zone. look how it paid off. We have already discussed how many Tech kids would start for the Horns. It's not many.

That's where the feelings of underachievement come from. You can throw out the SI cover for winning Frisbee Golf and Horseshoe championships, because we all know it comes down to 2 sports in college. Texas has a storied tradition in baseball, but we all all know college baseball is not where most of the talent goes. It is unfathomable to me how Texas has only won one MNC since 1971. I'm sorry it just is. yes it's more than Tech has ever won, yada, yada, yada. Is that what you compare yourself to? A team you are 7-1 against in the last 8 years? I still beleive VY is the only reason Mack won his MNC, and he will not win one again without another phenom. You could say that is unfair, but look at the OU and LSU championships. Who is the single best player from those teams? jason White? justin Vincent?

I feel like with the players that Texas gets they should at least be playing in the MNC similarly to how LSU, USC, and OU have been. Yes with OU in the same conference, it makes it tricky. welcome to competition. if there was no need for that, you could join the Conference USA or something, right?

Mack has learned some tough lessons, and that is what makes someone successful- to keep on getting up when you get knocked on your keister. I don't think the Simms/ applewhite deal would ever go down that way again. i already mentioned the play calling. I also believe he has adjusted his play calling style a bit. I also think they might be getting a bit more selective in the character of their recruits, following the recent troubles.

I just don't like seeing talent wasted, that's why I close my eyes when Tech is on defense!:D That is my biggest point of contention about Texas, at least in the X's and O's sense. throw all the numbers up there you want, and then tell me you are pleased with a season like this one. the Hornsfans I know are pissed, because they think the Holiday Bowl is a form of pentance, not a reward. How do you feel?



Absolute nonsense. First of all, it's not like Texas is pulling in the best recruiting class every year. They have done that under MB, but not every year. On great years they finish in the top 5, most years it's somewhere between 8-15. JTK will back me up on this.

Every year, pull out the final polls, and top ten teams have 2 losses. It's dang hard to go through a BCS conference with one or less losses. If you do, you have a great shot at playing for the NC. Since the 2000 title game, the only teams that have done better at this that UT are Oklahoma, Southern Cal, LSU, and Ohio State. Not coincidentally, those teams are ususally right near Texas in terms of recruiting classes.

It's false that UT has THAT much better players than everyone else. There are plenty of programs out there with athletes just as good or better than Texas' two deep. And even those programs finish with 2 losses with some regularity. Oklahoma does it all the time, including this year. LSU does it all the time, including the past two years. Southern Cal has the past two years in a row.

That's not to say that Texas doesn't lose some games they should win. Guess what, every top-tier program loses games they should win. That's the nature of the beast. Getting to a one loss or two loss season in the Big 12, SEC, Big 10, or Pac-10 takes good coaching, good players, and a heaping teaspoonful of good luck. It's that simple. Based on the standards some UT haters throw around, there isn't a single program in the nation that DOESN'T underperform. Except Texas Tech, of course.;)

[drgnbkr]

My my, you boy's sure do get worked up...:o

[slorch]

Absolute nonsense. First of all, it's not like Texas is pulling in the best recruiting class every year. They have done that under MB, but not every year. On great years they finish in the top 5, most years it's somewhere between 8-15. JTK will back me up on this.

Every year, pull out the final polls, and top ten teams have 2 losses. It's dang hard to go through a BCS conference with one or less losses. If you do, you have a great shot at playing for the NC. Since the 2000 title game, the only teams that have done better at this that UT are Oklahoma, Southern Cal, LSU, and Ohio State. Not coincidentally, those teams are ususally right near Texas in terms of recruiting classes.

It's false that UT has THAT much better players than everyone else. There are plenty of programs out there with athletes just as good or better than Texas' two deep. And even those programs finish with 2 losses with some regularity. Oklahoma does it all the time, including this year. LSU does it all the time, including the past two years. Southern Cal has the past two years in a row.

That's not to say that Texas doesn't lose some games they should win. Guess what, every top-tier program loses games they should win. That's the nature of the beast. Getting to a one loss or two loss season in the Big 12, SEC, Big 10, or Pac-10 takes good coaching, good players, and a heaping teaspoonful of good luck. It's that simple. Based on the standards some UT haters throw around, there isn't a single program in the nation that DOESN'T underperform. Except Texas Tech, of course.;)

so tell me how many guys from Tech would start on either side of the ball...5 or 6 TOPS! that's offense and defense added together. that's always been my knock on Mack. he doesn't get the most out of his players, although the very presence of scott Derry in the starting lineup disproves that thought, although most Hornsfans wonder as much as I do why the guy is still starting...

Tech has underachieved(OSU, CU) and overachieved( 8-4, Gator Bowl Berth on a "rebuilding" year) within the same season this year. And I did mention teams that Texas is not equal in performance to- OU and LSU, but they should be.

It's amazing how you never agree with me. the Tech dude is always wrong...

texas can keep losing out to OU and probably knows the way to San Diego pretty well by now. Mack is awesome though...:rolleyes:

[slorch]

My my, you boy's sure do get worked up...:o

I'm not worked up, just bored.

Talking to firebird is like playing paddle ball. I know it's coming back, no matter where I hit it...

[slorch]

BTW, i have heard from my sources( in my Herbstreit voice) that Leach has interviewed with Arkiesaw and Ga Tech.

Still hard for me to believe he would leave. I just hope he's just doing due diligence by his career and gets a raise to stay at Tech. We'll see how it all plays out...:ninja:

[jtk1519]

Absolute nonsense. First of all, it's not like Texas is pulling in the best recruiting class every year. They have done that under MB, but not every year. On great years they finish in the top 5, most years it's somewhere between 8-15. JTK will back me up on this.

The bird is wise. I have been saying this for years now, but when you average out the recruiting classes Mack has signed and compare that to where Texas finishes in the final polls, you will see that Texas just slightly outplays it's recruiting rankings. Texas recruits very well... a perennial top 10 recruiting program, but there are several programs including LSU, USC, Tennessee and even Florida State that have out-recruited Texas. Part of that has to do with the fact that Mack almost refuses to recruit out of state players.

The idea that a team should never lose 2 games because of their talent is so laughably asinine that it almost fails to warrant disproving. No program over the past 5 years has recruited as well as USC. They are, without question, the most loaded team in college football and yet they have two losses... one to Stanford. Does that mean Carroll is a waste of USC money now? Of course not. The recruiting rankings are fine and dandy, but there is so much more. Some players just don't develop. Some players never get in or get booted because of grades or other problems. There are injuries that teams have to deal with. Texas has had more than a dozen starters miss games the past two seasons with serious injuries and almost every player has played banged up. Why is nothing ever said of that? It's not an excuse, but when a team loses two senior, starting O-linemen and replaces them with a freshman ans soph., first year players, do one's expectations not have to change just a bit?

The facts still remain... yes, Texas pulls in talent. They are about the 10th best team in the nation at doing that since Mack showed up. It is also true that the number of programs that have matched or surpassed the success Mack has led Texas to can literally be counted on one hand. I can't tell you how much that sucks. :D

[jtk1519]

BTW, just as I said, Dorrell was fired by UCLA today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3138961

[slorch]

what really sucks is having an orange uterus on your helmet...

[HUM398]

Do yo ever start reading a thread, realize that its gotten interesting...thinking about putting your 2 cents in...But realizing youre to lazy to swat Lonny across the forehead...Thats where i am right now.


lazy....

[HUM398]

...

[HUM398]

what really sucks is having an orange uterus on your helmet...

ovaries and UTERUS...dumb:Censor:

[HUM398]

BTW, just as I said, Dorrell was fired by UCLA today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3138961

Im shocked:rolleyes:

[jtk1519]

Do yo ever start reading a thread, realize that its gotten interesting...thinking about putting your 2 cents in...But realizing youre to lazy to swat Lonny across the forehead...Thats where i am right now.


lazy....

Once you've done it 100 times, it loses it's appeal.

[slorch]

Do yo ever start reading a thread, realize that its gotten interesting...thinking about putting your 2 cents in...But realizing youre to lazy to swat Lonny across the forehead...Thats where i am right now.


lazy....

never let a chance go by... shame on you.

[jtk1519]

never let a chance go by... shame on you.

It's lonny... there will be plenty of chances. No shame in taking a few hours off.

[HUM398]

Once you've done it 100 times, it loses it's appeal.

Its to the point when i see that lonny has posted...i say to myself "eh...Ill have another chance..." Later i look back and say, "My God, i am to lazy to slap Lonny across the forehead....am i sick".

You're right though, the opportunity is less appealing then my first time.

[slorch]

BTW, just as I said, Dorrell was fired by UCLA today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3138961

BTW, nobody disputed that part.

It was the herbstreit-like conviction with which you said leach was leaving that I took issue with. Is it Herbstreit or Bayless that you would like to be associated with?

[Firebird]

Mack gets about par out of his players. He doesn't overachieve with them, and doesn't underachieve either. This season, where UT is wrapping up the regular season at 17, is probably the first real underachieving season under Brown. Don't believe me? Let's dive into the recruiting class ranking. For simplicity's sake, I'll just use Rivals:
http://rivals100.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2004

Texas recruiting:
2002--1
2003--15
2004--10
2005--20
2006--5
2007--5

For comparison's sake, let's look at LSU
2002--15
2003---1
2004---2
2005--2
2006--7
2007--4

And Oklahoma
2002--7
2003--4
2004--8
2005--3
2006--9
2007--14

In the six years examined, OU finished above Texas three times as far as recruiting rankings. LSU four times. Not coincidentally, the three years they finished ahead (2003,2004,2005) are the same kids that are going to make up the meat of any two deep. Yet somehow, Mack is "not getting the most out of his players." How does that work?

Let's take a look at where Texas actually finished in the AP polls relative to its recruting classes over the past six years.
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=36&url_subchannel_id=&url_article_id=1349&change_well_id=2

2002--6
2003--12
2004--5
2005--1
2006--13
2007--(17-- season not over)


Do you see a lot of difference there? I sure as heck don't. They have one NC, the same as they have 1 top recruiting class. They have three top ten recruiting classes-- and three top ten finishes. The other three are top 10-15 classes. Incidentally, UT has never finished as low as its lowest ranked class, though they might if they drop their bowl game this year.

I don't see much "underachievement" there. I see a team that finishes roughly where you would expect it to based on their recruiting rankings. I can't believe you've reduced me to arguing for the orange and white, but I can't deny what's in front of me. I don't think you're wrong because you're a Tech guy. You're objectively wrong. You can't deny numbers-- UT finishes about where you would expect them to based on recruiting numbers alone.

Now, if they continue slipping over the next few years when those back to back top five classes in 2006 and 2007 are upperclassmen seeing the field(and a 2008 class shaping up to be a doozy) then I'll revisit my opinon.

[slorch]

Its to the point when i see that lonny has posted...i say to myself "eh...Ill have another chance..." Later i look back and say, "My God, i am to lazy to slap Lonny across the forehead....am i sick".

You're right though, the opportunity is less appealing then my first time.

it never has lost it's zing to me... i guess i haven't done it enough to build up a tolerance...:rolleyes::D

[slorch]

It's my belief that the recruiting rankings are shady to begin with. Rivals and such make the Clintons( opinion polls) look objective when making an opinion on something.

Texas gets who they want in 90% of the cases. Yeah they lose a Perriloser or look at the top 5 ("ranked") recruits in the state this year. No, they don't get them all. It is my opinion that Texas gets first choice in the best football playing state in the nation. Saying that they finish according to where some recruiting service thinks their players rate is just a rationalization for Mack not winning another MNC.

Do they not get the players they want.

Are players not committing through their junior years just so they can wear the rusty uterus?

yeah, there's going to be years like last year when Stoops had a young team, and no QB, and he still went and won a Conference Championship. that is what I can't see Mack Brown ever doing. maybe I am wrong for that, but I see no evidence to the contrary.

Mack might be a great manager of what's going on, recruiting, delegating responsibility, ect, ect. Great leaders get more out of their people. IMO.

[jtk1519]

it never has lost it's zing to me... i guess i haven't done it enough to build up a tolerance...:rolleyes::D

I just sit back and wait for my pitch. I used to swing at everything near the plate, but now I sit back and wait for the fastball down the middle. I'll occasionally swing at the high hanging curve ball.

[Firebird]

It's my belief that the recruiting rankings are shady to begin with. Rivals and such make the Clintons( opinion polls) look objective when making an opinion on something.

Texas gets who they want in 90% of the cases. Yeah they lose a Perriloser or look at the top 5 ("ranked") recruits in the state this year. No, they don't get them all. It is my opinion that Texas gets first choice in the best football playing state in the nation. Saying that they finish according to where some recruiting service thinks their players rate is just a rationalization for Mack not winning another MNC.

Do they not get the players they want.

Are players not committing through their junior years just so they can wear the rusty uterus?

yeah, there's going to be years like last year when Stoops had a young team, and no QB, and he still went and won a Conference Championship. that is what I can't see Mack Brown ever doing. maybe I am wrong for that, but I see no evidence to the contrary.

Mack might be a great manager of what's going on, recruiting, delegating responsibility, ect, ect. Great leaders get more out of their people. IMO.

Oklahoma would disagree. They cherry pick the best football playing state in the nation pretty well. I can think of several players that UT would have loved having that crossed the Red River.

Dismissing rivals and other recruiting services is one way to go about it, but you offer no other way to try and evaluate things objectively. Instead, you use the ironclad and irrefutable argument:

I say that UT gets the best players in the nation, so they do. They don't win the MNC every year, so that means they underachieve. After all, I just said they get the best players.

By the way, a big reason that UT finished lower those years is because they signed small classes-- classes of 15, 18, 20. The players they get are choice, but depth counts for a lot in college football. Not coincidentlly, depth really hurt them the past few years.

For the record, I've always said that the Visor is a better coach than MB. If I had my choice, I'd pick him everytime. Especially when things don't go according to plan. That doesn't mean that MB underachieves. I said that MB is able to shoot a little better than par with the players he's got, and he does so. The numbers don't lie.

Your paradigm is all out of whack. You're trying to say that there is either greatness or underachievement. That's not true-- there is a middle ground in there, which is where Mack is at. He's not quite a Stoops, but he certainly doesn't underachieve.

[slorch]

Oklahoma would disagree. They cherry pick the best football playing state in the nation pretty well. I can think of several players that UT would have loved having that crossed the Red River.

Dismissing rivals and other recruiting services is one way to go about it, but you offer no other way to try and evaluate things objectively. Instead, you use the ironclad and irrefutable argument:

I say that UT gets the best players in the nation, so they do. They don't win the MNC every year, so that means they underachieve. After all, I just said they get the best players.

By the way, a big reason that UT finished lower those years is because they signed small classes-- classes of 15, 18, 20. The players they get are choice, but depth counts for a lot in college football. Not coincidentlly, depth really hurt them the past few years.

For the record, I've always said that the Visor is a better coach than MB. If I had my choice, I'd pick him everytime. Especially when things don't go according to plan. That doesn't mean that MB underachieves. I said that MB is able to shoot a little better than par with the players he's got, and he does so. The numbers don't lie.

Your paradigm is all out of whack. You're trying to say that there is either greatness or underachievement. That's not true-- there is a middle ground in there, which is where Mack is at. He's not quite a Stoops, but he certainly doesn't underachieve.

I also compared their players to my own favorite team. Position by position, what Red Raiders would start for UT?

My rant about Rivals was mainly because you started sounding like THEY are the absolute authority on talent. we know they editorialize their rankings quite a bit, depending upon where a kid is being recruited, such as when they disputed the Gallington kid's offer from LSU. It was as if they hadn't decided he was that good, so he could not have possibly received an offer from les and Co. he then shut them up by faxing the letter from Miles directly to Rivals.

That's one symptom of why I don't care for the ranking services.

[jtk1519]

Texas gets who they want in 90% of the cases. Yeah they lose a Perriloser or look at the top 5 ("ranked") recruits in the state this year. No, they don't get them all. It is my opinion that Texas gets first choice in the best football playing state in the nation.

You're assuming that just because they can get those players, that they want to get those players. Perfect case this year... Jermie Calhoun of Van. 5 star RB ranked the 2nd best RB in the nation. HUGE Texas fan that wanted to go to Texas and would have committed on the spot. Texas didn't offer because of grade issues and instead went after 3 star Tre Newton. Look at the kids Texas could have had, but didn't even bother trying to get... Andrew Luck, Taylor Potts, Terrance Toliver, Dez Bryant, etc. Now look at the players they did want and did get... Colt McCoy (3 star now starting), Chris Hall (3 star now starting), Charlie Tanner (3 star now starting), Rodrick Muckelroy (3 star, one of the leading LBs and starter next year), etc. Look at Texas current class... they went after and for a time had 3 star Riley Dodge. The do have 3 star Tre Newton, 2 star Blake Gideon, 3 star Luke Poehlmann, etc.

Yes, Texas does get the players it wants and rarely loses a head-to-head battle with any school, but that doesn't mean Texas is getting the highest rated players because a lot of times, Texas doesn't even pursue the top ranked player. It means Texas is getting their players.

[Firebird]

I also compared their players to my own favorite team. Position by position, what Red Raiders would start for UT?

My rant about Rivals was mainly because you started sounding like THEY are the absolute authority on talent. we know they editorialize their rankings quite a bit, depending upon where a kid is being recruited, such as when they disputed the Gallington kid's offer from LSU. It was as if they hadn't decided he was that good, so he could not have possibly received an offer from les and Co.

When UT starts losing to TTU or getting ranked behind TTU, then this will have some relevance on the situation at hand. Seriously, why drag this up? I don't dispute, for instance, that A&M has seriously underperformed in relation to Tech, because that's obviously the case.

UT finishes roughly where their recruiting classes are ranked, beats TTU nearly every year and finshes ahead of them in the Big 12 every year. And this is evidence that Mack underperforms?

[slorch]

When UT starts losing to TTU or getting ranked behind TTU, then this will have some relevance on the situation at hand. Seriously, why drag this up? I don't dispute, for instance, that A&M has seriously underperformed in relation to Tech, because that's obviously the case.

UT finishes roughly where their recruiting classes are ranked, beats TTU nearly every year and finshes ahead of them in the Big 12 every year. And this is evidence that Mack underperforms?

the discussion has been who you would rather have as coach. That is why i brought up Tech. It is our "farewell to the Pirate" thread any way, right:rolleyes:?

The evidence of Mack's underperformance is the number of MNCs sans VY that he has.

let's keep talkin g in circles. Y'all will understand it eventually...

[Firebird]

the discussion has been who you would rather have as coach. That is why i brought up Tech. It is our "farewell to the Pirate" thread any way, right:rolleyes:?

The evidence of Mack's underperformance is the number of MNCs sans VY that he has.

let's keep talkin g in circles. Y'all will understand it eventually...

How many does Stoops have without White? How many does Tressel have without Krenzel?

The fact is, since MB took over at UT, there is only one school with multiple MNCs and that is USC. After this year's bowl game, there will be two. And if LSU wins, it will be under a different coach.

So, Mack has underperformed because he hasn't done what only ONE freaking coach in all of college football has been able to do over the same timespan?

Like I said, your paradigm is screwy. Based on your logic, every coach not named "Pete Carroll" is underachieveing.:rolleyes:

[Firebird]

Substitute "Heupel" for "White." I can't edit for some reason.

[jtk1519]

The evidence of Mack's underperformance is the number of MNCs sans VY that he has.

What about Pete Carroll's underperformance in the number of MNCs sans Reggie Bush that he has. Or the underperformance of Nick Satan in the number of MNCs sans Matt Mauck that he has. Or the underperformance of Jim Tressell in the number of MNCs sans Maurice Clarett that he has. Or the underperformance of Darth Visor in the number of MNCs sans Josh Heupel that he has. Again, there are only a couple of programs that can match or surpass what Texas has done under Mack Brown.

Funny how people expect more of Mack than they do the coaches that have consistently out-recruited Mack.

[slorch]

How many does Stoops have without White? How many does Tressel have without Krenzel?

The fact is, since MB took over at UT, there is only one school with multiple MNCs and that is USC. After this year's bowl game, there will be two. And if LSU wins, it will be under a different coach.

So, Mack has underperformed because he hasn't done what only ONE freaking coach in all of college football has been able to do over the same timespan?

Like I said, your paradigm is screwy. Based on your logic, every coach not named "Pete Carroll" is underachieveing.:rolleyes:

OU and LSU both have played in MNC games and lost, in addition to the ones that they won.

Mack hasn't even gotten close.

[slorch]

What about Pete Carroll's underperformance in the number of MNCs sans Reggie Bush that he has. Or the underperformance of Nick Satan in the number of MNCs sans Matt Mauck that he has. Or the underperformance of Jim Tressell in the number of MNCs sans Maurice Clarett that he has. Or the underperformance of Darth Visor in the number of MNCs sans Josh Heupel that he has. Again, there are only a couple of programs that can match or surpass what Texas has done under Mack Brown.

Funny how people expect more of Mack than they do the coaches that have consistently out-recruited Mack.


out recruited Mack?

That's like out-plagiarizing others comedy material Carlos Mencia...

i guess they have more resources too.:rolleyes:

maybe I'm unfair in this whole gig, but honestly, if i was a UT fan, I'd be pissed too, just like my buddies. texas has no business playing in the "Sewer Bowl( what my UT buddies called San Diego.) If you are satisfied with it, then that's what matters.

I just want to know if JTK has Herbstreit's autograph, because this weekened, y'all were 2 peas in a pod.

" Coaches are leaving. i have great sources..."

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[lonny23]

so tell me how many guys from Tech would start on either side of the ball...5 or 6 TOPS! that's offense and defense added together. that's always been my knock on Mack. he doesn't get the most out of his players, although the very presence of scott Derry in the starting lineup disproves that thought, although most Hornsfans wonder as much as I do why the guy is still starting...

Tech has underachieved(OSU, CU) and overachieved( 8-4, Gator Bowl Berth on a "rebuilding" year) within the same season this year. And I did mention teams that Texas is not equal in performance to- OU and LSU, but they should be.

It's amazing how you never agree with me. the Tech dude is always wrong...

texas can keep losing out to OU and probably knows the way to San Diego pretty well by now. Mack is awesome though...:rolleyes:
You'd think the guy at A&M who also likes Tech would be on board with anti-Longhorn talk, but it's almost like he's a pacifist and wants to like all 3!:D

Then again, it's not like we always see eye to eye, either!:D

[lonny23]

The bird is wise. I have been saying this for years now, but when you average out the recruiting classes Mack has signed and compare that to where Texas finishes in the final polls, you will see that Texas just slightly outplays it's recruiting rankings. Texas recruits very well... a perennial top 10 recruiting program, but there are several programs including LSU, USC, Tennessee and even Florida State that have out-recruited Texas. Part of that has to do with the fact that Mack almost refuses to recruit out of state players.

The idea that a team should never lose 2 games because of their talent is so laughably asinine that it almost fails to warrant disproving. No program over the past 5 years has recruited as well as USC. They are, without question, the most loaded team in college football and yet they have two losses... one to Stanford. Does that mean Carroll is a waste of USC money now? Of course not. The recruiting rankings are fine and dandy, but there is so much more. Some players just don't develop. Some players never get in or get booted because of grades or other problems. There are injuries that teams have to deal with. Texas has had more than a dozen starters miss games the past two seasons with serious injuries and almost every player has played banged up. Why is nothing ever said of that? It's not an excuse, but when a team loses two senior, starting O-linemen and replaces them with a freshman ans soph., first year players, do one's expectations not have to change just a bit?

The facts still remain... yes, Texas pulls in talent. They are about the 10th best team in the nation at doing that since Mack showed up. It is also true that the number of programs that have matched or surpassed the success Mack has led Texas to can literally be counted on one hand. I can't tell you how much that sucks. :DI've always said Pete Carroll wasn't that great of a coach, either.

[lonny23]

Do yo ever start reading a thread, realize that its gotten interesting...thinking about putting your 2 cents in...But realizing youre to lazy to swat Lonny across the forehead...Thats where i am right now.


lazy....
I'm like a moving target!:D

[lonny23]

Once you've done it 100 times, it loses it's appeal.
Dude, yiou haven't got the best of me yet. You spew crap about stuff I didn't say and you can't prove what I do say to be wrong.

For all the talk about how you hate when Texas loses, you make excuses for the fact that they underachieve because you're not man enough to just admit I'm right.

It's not like I'm the only person around here that sees Mack doesn't get the job done. dragonsdaddy, slorch, and others know it, but none of the puke orange brigade will admit it because they have to engage in petty peeing contests with the rival schools. That's just one of the many reasons I hate OU, Texas, and A&M. They and their fans are too much of a mental midget to admit they've fallen short in an area. It's called George Carlin's "BD syndrome" and Texas does it all the time.

[lonny23]

BTW, nobody disputed that part.

It was the herbstreit-like conviction with which you said leach was leaving that I took issue with. Is it Herbstreit or Bayless that you would like to be associated with?
You can go on UCLA's Rivals webpage now and they have the candidates listed and guess what it says about why not to hire Leach?

It says , "Leach is already making more money than the Bruins are willing to pay. He would have to take a paycut to coach UCLA in a city where dollars don't go as far as Lubbock."

That's exactly what I said a few days ago. I will say that he will save some money because UCLA provides a house for their football coach, but I stand by the idea that he'd lose too much money at UCLA.

I don't know if this has anything to do with UCLA, but there was a plane that left Santa Barbara for Lubbock today and left LBK shortly after it landed. That plane took off for Washington County, PA right outside Pittsburgh when it got back to CA from LBK.

The thing about Leach is that people think he'll talk to UCLA if they want to and some can see him leaving if things work out right, but there is doubt in the Tech community that everything will match and Leach will hit the road.

I go back to location, and if Leach leaves, it will have to be for someplace where he will have a talent pipeline and also talent conducive to his offense. He can get that in CA, but he wasn't going to in Arkysaw. He's only going to get in the door at some place that doesn't care about him being crazy and places like Texas and A&M are prime examples of colleges that don't want somebody like him. I don't think Leach is totally consumed by money, but I also don't think he's looking to take a paycut for moving. At a minimum, getting some outside love might be a ploy to get more money from Tech.

[jtk1519]

I've always said Pete Carroll wasn't that great of a coach, either.

And I've always said that you're an idiot.

[lonny23]

Mack gets about par out of his players. He doesn't overachieve with them, and doesn't underachieve either. This season, where UT is wrapping up the regular season at 17, is probably the first real underachieving season under Brown. Don't believe me? Let's dive into the recruiting class ranking. For simplicity's sake, I'll just use Rivals:
http://rivals100.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2004

Texas recruiting:
2002--1
2003--15
2004--10
2005--20
2006--5
2007--5

For comparison's sake, let's look at LSU
2002--15
2003---1
2004---2
2005--2
2006--7
2007--4

And Oklahoma
2002--7
2003--4
2004--8
2005--3
2006--9
2007--14

In the six years examined, OU finished above Texas three times as far as recruiting rankings. LSU four times. Not coincidentally, the three years they finished ahead (2003,2004,2005) are the same kids that are going to make up the meat of any two deep. Yet somehow, Mack is "not getting the most out of his players." How does that work?

Let's take a look at where Texas actually finished in the AP polls relative to its recruting classes over the past six years.
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=36&url_subchannel_id=&url_article_id=1349&change_well_id=2

2002--6
2003--12
2004--5
2005--1
2006--13
2007--(17-- season not over)


Do you see a lot of difference there? I sure as heck don't. They have one NC, the same as they have 1 top recruiting class. They have three top ten recruiting classes-- and three top ten finishes. The other three are top 10-15 classes. Incidentally, UT has never finished as low as its lowest ranked class, though they might if they drop their bowl game this year.

I don't see much "underachievement" there. I see a team that finishes roughly where you would expect it to based on their recruiting rankings. I can't believe you've reduced me to arguing for the orange and white, but I can't deny what's in front of me. I don't think you're wrong because you're a Tech guy. You're objectively wrong. You can't deny numbers-- UT finishes about where you would expect them to based on recruiting numbers alone.

Now, if they continue slipping over the next few years when those back to back top five classes in 2006 and 2007 are upperclassmen seeing the field(and a 2008 class shaping up to be a doozy) then I'll revisit my opinon.Texas' recruiting classes got worse because recruits could see that he wasn't that great of a coach and went elsewhere, namely OU.

Mack came into Texas and had the world on it's ear. He proved to be less than hoped for, but better than his predecessors. I hope Texas enjoys their 9-3 and 10-2 rut, because they'll be here for a while.

[jtk1519]

It says , "Leach is already making more money than the Bruins are willing to pay. He would have to take a paycut to coach UCLA in a city where dollars don't go as far as Lubbock."

False. The UCLA AD's office has already said they are willing to pay whatever it takes. The two names out right now are Petersen from Boise State and Leach. Expect the Leach announcement within the week.

[jtk1519]

Texas' recruiting classes got worse because recruits could see that he wasn't that great of a coach and went elsewhere, namely OU.

Ummmm... Mack signed his best consecutive classes the past two years. His recruiting as of late has been the best it has ever been. You make no sense lonny.

Just get ready for more beatdowns, lonny. The best consecutive classes Texas has ever signed, are currently sophomores, RS freshmen, true freshmen and redshirting.

[lonny23]

It's my belief that the recruiting rankings are shady to begin with. Rivals and such make the Clintons( opinion polls) look objective when making an opinion on something.

Texas gets who they want in 90% of the cases. Yeah they lose a Perriloser or look at the top 5 ("ranked") recruits in the state this year. No, they don't get them all. It is my opinion that Texas gets first choice in the best football playing state in the nation. Saying that they finish according to where some recruiting service thinks their players rate is just a rationalization for Mack not winning another MNC.

Do they not get the players they want.

Are players not committing through their junior years just so they can wear the rusty uterus?

yeah, there's going to be years like last year when Stoops had a young team, and no QB, and he still went and won a Conference Championship. that is what I can't see Mack Brown ever doing. maybe I am wrong for that, but I see no evidence to the contrary.

Mack might be a great manager of what's going on, recruiting, delegating responsibility, ect, ect. Great leaders get more out of their people. IMO.Sure, the ratings are shady. Terry McDaniel was a 2-star recruit for Tech. Everybody said he should be 3-stars. LSU offered him, but when he verballed to Tech, the LSU Rivals guy said the Tigers never offered. Everytime the Tech guys would ask for a listing showing an LSU offer, the Tiger editor would have it removed. Finally, the McDaniel's scanned a copy of the LSU offer for final proof and Terry McDaniel became a 3-star recruit. That's the best example I've seen yet where a recruit's star level was based upon who gave him offers.

[lonny23]

You're assuming that just because they can get those players, that they want to get those players. Perfect case this year... Jermie Calhoun of Van. 5 star RB ranked the 2nd best RB in the nation. HUGE Texas fan that wanted to go to Texas and would have committed on the spot. Texas didn't offer because of grade issues and instead went after 3 star Tre Newton. Look at the kids Texas could have had, but didn't even bother trying to get... Andrew Luck, Taylor Potts, Terrance Toliver, Dez Bryant, etc. Now look at the players they did want and did get... Colt McCoy (3 star now starting), Chris Hall (3 star now starting), Charlie Tanner (3 star now starting), Rodrick Muckelroy (3 star, one of the leading LBs and starter next year), etc. Look at Texas current class... they went after and for a time had 3 star Riley Dodge. The do have 3 star Tre Newton, 2 star Blake Gideon, 3 star Luke Poehlmann, etc.

Yes, Texas does get the players it wants and rarely loses a head-to-head battle with any school, but that doesn't mean Texas is getting the highest rated players because a lot of times, Texas doesn't even pursue the top ranked player. It means Texas is getting their players.I think Texas could've done a little better than 'ol Colt when they got him.

[lonny23]

the discussion has been who you would rather have as coach. That is why i brought up Tech. It is our "farewell to the Pirate" thread any way, right:rolleyes:?

The evidence of Mack's underperformance is the number of MNCs sans VY that he has.

let's keep talkin g in circles. Y'all will understand it eventually...
That reminds me of an offer I've made a time or two. I've offered the 'horn faithful the chance to give Leach's team to Mack and Mack's team to Leach and see who would win!:D My money is on Leach's new team beating Mack by a lot more points than Mack is doing now!:D

[lonny23]

What about Pete Carroll's underperformance in the number of MNCs sans Reggie Bush that he has. Or the underperformance of Nick Satan in the number of MNCs sans Matt Mauck that he has. Or the underperformance of Jim Tressell in the number of MNCs sans Maurice Clarett that he has. Or the underperformance of Darth Visor in the number of MNCs sans Josh Heupel that he has. Again, there are only a couple of programs that can match or surpass what Texas has done under Mack Brown.

Funny how people expect more of Mack than they do the coaches that have consistently out-recruited Mack.
I take my shots against the other coaches, too. This happens to be a Texas board. I gripe about Pete Carroll and Les Miles, too. I've said Stoops hasn't been as good since his brother left. I talk about Carr and whoever else comes to mind. I can't stand Tressell, but he's one of the best at not losing games he should win.

[lonny23]

out recruited Mack?

That's like out-plagiarizing others comedy material Carlos Mencia...

i guess they have more resources too.:rolleyes:

maybe I'm unfair in this whole gig, but honestly, if i was a UT fan, I'd be pissed too, just like my buddies. texas has no business playing in the "Sewer Bowl( what my UT buddies called San Diego.) If you are satisfied with it, then that's what matters.

I just want to know if JTK has Herbstreit's autograph, because this weekened, y'all were 2 peas in a pod.

" Coaches are leaving. i have great sources..."

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:DYeah, I don't get it, either. I want to win and I hate losing. I know Texas generated $60M to $20M for Tech in football revenue last year or 2005, but that doesn't matter. Tech starts at a disadvantage and all I care about it going 14-0. I'm upset about 8-4 and we're playing on New Year's Day.

We gripe about Tech losing when the other guys have obvious advantages and the rest of the guys are defending losses that can only be called losing from ahead.

Let's look at the Rivals recruiting classes for 2003 (Seniors this year) for teams that played Tech:

OU 4
A&M 10
OSU 15
UT 15
Colorado 19
Mizzou 28
Tech 44

6 teams had better senior talent than the Red Raiders, but I didn't care. I wanted them to win and it didn't matter that they might have better talent. Texas loses games every year to teams with worse talent and that's why I rip them.

Last year, Tech went 5-1 (With the #48 class) against teams with worse senior talent and 3-4 against teams with better senior talent. Tech went 6-0 this year (With the #44 class) against teams with worse senior talent and 2-4 (3-4 after the Gator Bowl!) against teams with better talent. The #33 class will be seniors next year!:D

I would like to say that Tech has come a long way in recruiting. Here is the average stars for the recent classes:

02 2.42 (57th) Last year's seniors except Tillman
03 2.60 (51st) This year's seniors
04 2.69 (29th)
05 2.67 (40th)
06 2.88 (33rd)
07 2.73 (42nd)
08 3.17 (21st and I expect it to get higher)

[lonny23]

Ummmm... Mack signed his best consecutive classes the past two years. His recruiting as of late has been the best it has ever been. You make no sense lonny.

Just get ready for more beatdowns, lonny. The best consecutive classes Texas has ever signed, are currently sophomores, RS freshmen, true freshmen and redshirting.
B.S.

They were 3rd in 2002 and 2nd in 2003!:D

There are people like Adrian Peterson that said they wanted to go to OU to win and not Texas! Malcolm Kelly said it, too.

[Firebird]

You'd think the guy at A&M who also likes Tech would be on board with anti-Longhorn talk, but it's almost like he's a pacifist and wants to like all 3!:D

Then again, it's not like we always see eye to eye, either!:D

This statements sums everything up nicely. I'm being honest and objective in my assessment, even when it doesn't reflect well on my teams.

As a Tech fan, I don't want to believe that UT under Mack has been underachieving while Tech was overachieving. If that were true, it would mean that even with Tech overachieving and UT underachieving, we weren't able to close the gap at all. If what you say is true, then both Tech and A&M have peed away a great opportunity to overtake the Horns as the state's best program. I'll freely admit that A&M has peed away plenty of opportunities over the past decade or so, but I think Tech's been giving it their best shot.

[Firebird]

I've always said Pete Carroll wasn't that great of a coach, either.

Now you're just off the reservation. If the only coach with multiple MNCs over the past five years isn't a great coach, then no one is. Excepting the Pirate and his string of 4-5 loss seasons. He's a coaching genius.:rolleyes:

I hate to imagine that you actually believe the stuff you type.

[lonny23]

This statements sums everything up nicely. I'm being honest and objective in my assessment, even when it doesn't reflect well on my teams.

As a Tech fan, I don't want to believe that UT under Mack has been underachieving while Tech was overachieving. If that were true, it would mean that even with Tech overachieving and UT underachieving, we weren't able to close the gap at all. If what you say is true, then both Tech and A&M have peed away a great opportunity to overtake the Horns as the state's best program. I'll freely admit that A&M has peed away plenty of opportunities over the past decade or so, but I think Tech's been giving it their best shot.
The gap has been closing. The key is to overtake them and that only happens with wins and better recruits.

[Firebird]

OU and LSU both have played in MNC games and lost, in addition to the ones that they won.

Mack hasn't even gotten close.

What MNC game has LSU lost? I don't recall that:confused:

[HUM398]

Just to make sure were clear... I dont think any of us Horn fans are saying we are happy with the "Sewer bowl"... We wanted a NC, or a BCS bowl...we got neither, But the bottom line is...Football seldom ends the way you want it to..

Texas fans aren't happy...We are pissed we lost 3 games, when we easily could be 12-0 and our way to the national title (on the same note, we easily could be 7-5)... I expect us to be in National Title contention next year with all the Youth we are returning...And i expect Mack to silence the critics. (By the way, im expecting Davis gone...i will be very unhappy if we don't get rid of him)

[HUM398]

This statements sums everything up nicely. I'm being honest and objective in my assessment, even when it doesn't reflect well on my teams.

As a Tech fan, I don't want to believe that UT under Mack has been underachieving while Tech was overachieving. If that were true, it would mean that even with Tech overachieving and UT underachieving, we weren't able to close the gap at all. If what you say is true, then both Tech and A&M have peed away a great opportunity to overtake the Horns as the state's best program. I'll freely admit that A&M has peed away plenty of opportunities over the past decade or so, but I think Tech's been giving it their best shot.

I rarely agree with the bird...But..."SMACK"

[lonny23]

Now you're just off the reservation. If the only coach with multiple MNCs over the past five years isn't a great coach, then no one is. Excepting the Pirate and his string of 4-5 loss seasons. He's a coaching genius.:rolleyes:

I hate to imagine that you actually believe the stuff you type.
I'm not claiming any kind of superiority for the Pirate. He gets them to overachieve, but they still lose games.

Carroll won with the best talent out there. It was them more than it was him.

Everybody USC played this year had worse senior talent. That makes Pete 10-2 against worse talent. Pete went 9-1 vs. worse talent last year and was 2-1 vs. better senior talent. 3 losses against worse talent is too much. Even 1 is too much. I roasted Tech for losing to TCU last year and that talent was only 1 spot worse than Tech.

Mack is 19-6 the last 2 years against worse talent on the star system. Nobody on the 'horns schedule has had better senior players than Texas the last 2 years. 6 losses is way too many. Leach only has 1 loss to worse talent and that was too many.

[lonny23]

Just to make sure were clear... I dont think any of us Horn fans are saying we are happy with the "Sewer bowl"... We wanted a NC, or a BCS bowl...we got neither, But the bottom line is...Football seldom ends the way you want it to..

Texas fans aren't happy...We are pissed we lost 3 games, when we easily could be 12-0 and our way to the national title (on the same note, we easily could be 7-5)... I expect us to be in National Title contention next year with all the Youth we are returning...And i expect Mack to silence the critics. (By the way, im expecting Davis gone...i will be very unhappy if we don't get rid of him)
If you go by the stars, none of the classes from 03-08 are as good as last year's senior class and this year's senior class (03) is only beaten by the 07 class. The 08 class is the weakest in the last 7 years. Now saying all of that, getting 3.60 for most years and a 3.47 this year is still pretty good.

[slorch]

What MNC game has LSU lost? I don't recall that:confused:

My bad. I was thinking about the past two years being close with 11-2 records.
LSU Football History
Year Overall SEC Coach Bowl Final Rank
2000 8-4 5-3 Nick Saban Peach Bowl 22
2001 10-3 5-3 Nick Saban Sugar Bowl 7
2002 8-5 5-3 Nick Saban Cotton Bowl
2003 13-1 7-1 Nick Saban Sugar Bowl 1
2004 9-3 6-2 Nick Saban Capital One Bowl 16
2005 11-2 7-1 Les Miles Peach Bowl 5
2006 11-2 6-2 Les Miles Sugar Bowl 3
Previous Decade Decades Next Decade

[jtk1519]

B.S.

They were 3rd in 2002 and 2nd in 2003!:D

There are people like Adrian Peterson that said they wanted to go to OU to win and not Texas! Malcolm Kelly said it, too.

Ummm... Texas ranked #1 in 2002...
http://texas.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2002

...and tied for 15th in 2003...
http://texas.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2003

BTW, Adrian Peterson said he went to Mobilhoma to "win championships". BWAHAHAHAHA!! Why don't you ask EOD how that went for him. BWAHAHAHAHA!!

[jtk1519]

lonny math 101: 1-7 = closing the gap

[slorch]

lonny math 101: 1-7 = closing the gap

JTK tragedy-

Tech Vs OU and A&M in last 3 years-5-1
Texas Vs OU and A&M in last 3 years 3-3

baby steps my friend. Yes Texas has had our number, but Tech has improved against the other Big XII South competition.

Not an absolute measurement, but an indicator of improvement that wasn't so evident in the past.

[Firebird]

JTK tragedy-

Tech Vs OU and A&M in last 3 years-5-1
Texas Vs OU and A&M in last 3 years 3-3

baby steps my friend. Yes Texas has had our number, but Tech has improved against the other Big XII South competition.

Not an absolute measurement, but an indicator of improvement that wasn't so evident in the past.

Under Leach, Tech has clearly jumped ahead of A&M in the Texas pecking order. How much of that is due to Leach and how much to incompentence at A&M is still unclear, although I am willing to give significant props to what Tech has done out there in Lubbock.

I still don't see the gap closed versus Texas. If anything, it's increased. Tech did a much better job at beating Mackovic than Mack.

[Firebird]

If you go by the stars, none of the classes from 03-08 are as good as last year's senior class and this year's senior class (03) is only beaten by the 07 class. The 08 class is the weakest in the last 7 years. Now saying all of that, getting 3.60 for most years and a 3.47 this year is still pretty good.

Going by stars is not the way to do things. What's important is how a class ranks relative to its peers at other schools. More schools are sharing the wealth, but Texas has improved its classes relative to the competition in the past few years.

[slorch]

Under Leach, Tech has clearly jumped ahead of A&M in the Texas pecking order. How much of that is due to Leach and how much to incompentence at A&M is still unclear, although I am willing to give significant props to what Tech has done out there in Lubbock.

I still don't see the gap closed versus Texas. If anything, it's increased. Tech did a much better job at beating Mackovic than Mack.

while the last 2 games with the whorns were losses, it's not as if they just walked all over Tech. moral victory, not being sought here. If anything, we should feel inferior to missouri and Colorado...:eek:

[Firebird]

while the last 2 games with the whorns were losses, it's not as if they just walked all over Tech. moral victory, not being sought here. If anything, we should feel inferior to missouri and Colorado...:eek:

Those two programs are Pirate kryptonite. No joke, some of Tech's worst beatings since joining the Big 12 have been at their hands. Especially on the road. I remember Brad Smith and Co. hanging 62 on the Raiders.

[slorch]

Those two programs are Pirate kryptonite. No joke, some of Tech's worst beatings since joining the Big 12 have been at their hands. Especially on the road. I remember Brad Smith and Co. hanging 62 on the Raiders.

and that was before Dodge even shared his offensive secrets with the Tigers...:rolleyes:

[lonny23]

Ummm... Texas ranked #1 in 2002...
http://texas.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2002

...and tied for 15th in 2003...
http://texas.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2003

BTW, Adrian Peterson said he went to Mobilhoma to "win championships". BWAHAHAHAHA!! Why don't you ask EOD how that went for him. BWAHAHAHAHA!!
When I said 2nd and 3rd, I was talking about the average star ratings for the players. We all know that teams have years when they can sign more players, but I lean more on how good the players are vs. getting a bunch and bulking up the ranking.

[jtk1519]

When I said 2nd and 3rd, I was talking about the average star ratings for the players. We all know that teams have years when they can sign more players, but I lean more on how good the players are vs. getting a bunch and bulking up the ranking.

Signing fewer players = less depth. Look at the depth problems Texas has had this year. It has a lot to do with the fact that the 2005 class only had 15 signees and 3 of them transfered out a while back.

[lonny23]

Under Leach, Tech has clearly jumped ahead of A&M in the Texas pecking order. How much of that is due to Leach and how much to incompentence at A&M is still unclear, although I am willing to give significant props to what Tech has done out there in Lubbock.

I still don't see the gap closed versus Texas. If anything, it's increased. Tech did a much better job at beating Mackovic than Mack.
The gap isn't Mack compared to Mackovic. It's compared to Mack now and early on. Games in Lubbock are in bold.

98 Tech 42 Texas 35
99 Texas 58 Tech 7
00 Texas 29 Tech 17 (With Leach)
01 Texas 42 Tech 7
02 Tech 42 Texas 38
03 Texas 43 Tech 40
04 Texas 51 Tech 21 (VY killed Tech in 04 and 05)
05 Texas 52 Tech 17
06 Texas 35 Tech 31
07 Texas 59 Tech 43

Tech has won 2 games in Lubbock under Mack. They competed in 2000. You guys know how VY killed them in 04 and we've all gone around about the refs last year.

Texas pounded Tech the first 2 times in Austin, but that 03 game was close and many say Tech should've won. VY killed them in 05, but Tech kept fighting back on Texas this year. The 03 and 07 games both had controvery.

The point is that Texas doesn't have an easy time in Lubbock and they no longer have an easy time in Austin.

[jtk1519]

The point is that Texas doesn't have an easy time in Lubbock and they no longer have an easy time in Austin.

Nice moral victory there lonny. 7-1... nuff said.

[lonny23]

while the last 2 games with the whorns were losses, it's not as if they just walked all over Tech. moral victory, not being sought here. If anything, we should feel inferior to missouri and Colorado...:eek:
As much as I hate losing to CU and MU, they did have better upperclass talent than us. We'll do better when they come back in 2010.

[lonny23]

Signing fewer players = less depth. Look at the depth problems Texas has had this year. It has a lot to do with the fact that the 2005 class only had 15 signees and 3 of them transfered out a while back.
Signing less players means you have more returning players. I take just the opposite approach. You're looking at who you can get coming in and I'm thinking about all the guys still around. Signing less players really shows more depth because you don't have open scholarships.

[lonny23]

Nice moral victory there lonny. 7-1... nuff said.
I hate losing, but I also know beating you is more feasible as time goes by. You know it, too.

[jtk1519]

I hate losing, but I also know beating you is more feasible as time goes by. You know it, too.

I know that Texas had an easier time with you guys this year than they did last. I also know all but two on the starting offense that faced Tech will be back next year. There's a trend for ya.

[lonny23]

I know that Texas had an easier time with you guys this year than they did last. I also know all but two on the starting offense that faced Tech will be back next year. There's a trend for ya.
Your offense played better. The difference between this year and last year.

Tech didn't get an INT return for a TD this year.

Texas recovered an onside kick. Neither team stopped the other so the big difference is Tech punted to open the game and you got that onside kick. Those make up for 2 scores.

[jtk1519]

Your offense played better. The difference between this year and last year.

Tech didn't get an INT return for a TD this year.

Texas recovered an onside kick. Neither team stopped the other so the big difference is Tech punted to open the game and you got that onside kick. Those make up for 2 scores.

In other words, Texas out-offensed the might "Air Raid" attack and the lesser coaches with all their baggage out-coached the future Bruin super-genius.

[lonny23]

In other words, Texas out-offensed the might "Air Raid" attack and the lesser coaches with all their baggage out-coached the future Bruin super-genius.
No, you won with your superior talent. I will say it was the best coaching I've seen Texas do in a long time. It was one of those 4-leaf clover games like A&M vs. Texas.

[lonny23]

In other words, Texas out-offensed the might "Air Raid" attack and the lesser coaches with all their baggage out-coached the future Bruin super-genius.
Every day that goes by makes me think Leach isn't going anywhere. He knows he has a good thing going in Lubbock.

[slorch]

the four leaf clover strikes again, with a candle stick, in the library...:D

[jtk1519]

Every day that goes by makes me think Leach isn't going anywhere. He knows he has a good thing going in Lubbock.

UCLA's top two candidates were Steve Mariucci and Chris Petersen, both of which were supposedly extended $2.75 million base salary offers...

UCLA can apparently cross the first and second names off its coaching search list.

The Bruins have been widely reported to consider former NFL head coach Steve Mariucci and Boise State head coach Chris Petersen to be their top two candidates. But Mariucci apparently doesn't want to go back to coaching in college, and Petersen has now stated clearly that he has no interest in UCLA.

"I'm not interested in that place," Petersen said Monday, per the Idaho Statesman.

Petersen, who has a 23-2 career record at Boise State, said he hasn't talked to anyone at UCLA. He did say he has talked to officials from one school that expressed interest, but he wouldn't name the school and said he talked to them only to tell them he wasn't interested.

Petersen has four more years on his current contract. The Statesman reports that his base salary is $935,000. That's a lot for a program of Boise State's size, but if a big-time program wants to go after Petersen, the financial offer will dwarf his current salary.

Assuming Petersen means what he says, UCLA may now turn its attention to Texas Tech coach Mike Leach.

[lonny23]

UCLA's top two candidates were Steve Mariucci and Chris Petersen, both of which were supposedly extended $2.75 million base salary offers...
Coaches talk to each other and this might be a job that's red-flagged for some reason. One potential red-flag might be a school that caters to the basketball team and not the football team. You know I say that boosters and the athletic department act as inhibitors. Grimace fought that problem at Kansas and made a bunch of people mad. It sounds like a job that established people don't want to tackle. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say schools have drawbacks.

If you're right that they were offering $2.75M and Petersen doesn't want to go, either he loves Boise or UCLA is a trap job and he wants to avoid it. Either that or Petersen has another job that he thinks he's going to get.

[jtk1519]

If you're right that they were offering $2.75M and Petersen doesn't want to go, either he loves Boise or UCLA is a trap job and he wants to avoid it. Either that or Petersen has another job that he thinks he's going to get.

Petersen has and will turn down every job because as I understand it, he has a sick child that gets special care in Boise and he doesn't want to uproot his family under those conditions.

[Firebird]

Arkansas also lost out on Tommy Bowden, so that possibility remains open:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3140991

By the way, Chris Petersen of Boise State demonstrated the proper way to dispel rumors: "I'm not interested in that place." I don't understand how other Tech fans don't see Leach's "I won't comment on every rumor" for what it really is-- Leach has been shopping himself around for virtually every high-profile coaching vacancy out there for the past few years.

[jtk1519]

Leach has been shopping himself around for virtually every high-profile coaching vacancy out there for the past few years.

His active and fervent pursuit of the Miami job makes me think he wants out of Lubbock. I know he thinks highly of the school and town, but I think he feels like he has gone as far as he can go at Tech. It's quite obvious that he wants something else.

[Firebird]

His active and fervent pursuit of the Miami job makes me think he wants out of Lubbock. I know he thinks highly of the school and town, but I think he feels like he has gone as far as he can go at Tech. It's quite obvious that he wants something else.

Don't tell Lonny and Slorch. To them, it's obvious that he wants nothing more than to stay in Lubbock because he has an awesome team coming back.

I am amazed at the capacity some people have to BS themselves. If he really had no interest in another job, he'd come out and say it. He wouldn't be playing his game of "make it sound like I'm denying rumors when in fact I am confirming them."

[jtk1519]

Don't tell Lonny and Slorch. To them, it's obvious that he wants nothing more than to stay in Lubbock because he has an awesome team coming back.

I am amazed at the capacity some people have to BS themselves. If he really had no interest in another job, he'd come out and say it. He wouldn't be playing his game of "make it sound like I'm denying rumors when in fact I am confirming them."

Well, to be fair, nobody takes lonny seriously. The guy pulled the wool over his own eyes a long time ago.

[lonny23]

His active and fervent pursuit of the Miami job makes me think he wants out of Lubbock. I know he thinks highly of the school and town, but I think he feels like he has gone as far as he can go at Tech. It's quite obvious that he wants something else.
The only thing I know about the Miami stuff was that he had a conversation in NYC last year and never went to Miami about the job. He goes to NYC for a meeting every year with Myers and they're in NYC now.

From what I can tell, he never was a serious candidate for the job and that it's been overblown. I've heard of him saying he knew he'd never get a better job if he didn't make changes at Tech, but I've never heard of him actually interviewing for another job. He's been honest about things so far when he talks and I have no reason to not believe him now. Yeah, I'd like to hear he wants to stay, but maybe he wants leverage for more money or maybe he'll always listen to offers, but that doesn't mean he wants to go.

[lonny23]

His active and fervent pursuit of the Miami job makes me think he wants out of Lubbock. I know he thinks highly of the school and town, but I think he feels like he has gone as far as he can go at Tech. It's quite obvious that he wants something else.
I can promise you he doesn't think he's gone as far as he can go at Tech. That's a guarantee!:D

[lonny23]

Don't tell Lonny and Slorch. To them, it's obvious that he wants nothing more than to stay in Lubbock because he has an awesome team coming back.

I am amazed at the capacity some people have to BS themselves. If he really had no interest in another job, he'd come out and say it. He wouldn't be playing his game of "make it sound like I'm denying rumors when in fact I am confirming them."
Just watch how the media works. I read stuff all the time where the media makes stuff up. Some people don't care to fight everything the media makes up. Donna Shalala and Miami say that Leach wasn't a candidate for the job last year. Leach said nobody at UCLA had talked to him yet. I don't know if that changed in the last day. If I were Leach, I'd talk to somebody, but that doesn't mean you want to leave. I had an offer to change jobs and move to Alabama a few months ago. You know I love it here, but I still discussed it and then said no. Leach just isn't a puppet that the media will manipulate. If he says no to UCLA and then goes public, they'll just make up another team.

[lonny23]

Don't tell Lonny and Slorch. To them, it's obvious that he wants nothing more than to stay in Lubbock because he has an awesome team coming back.

I am amazed at the capacity some people have to BS themselves. If he really had no interest in another job, he'd come out and say it. He wouldn't be playing his game of "make it sound like I'm denying rumors when in fact I am confirming them."
Everything I can see says Leach is planning on staying at Tech. I think he's just having fun watching all the rumor-mongerers at work.

[jtk1519]

The only thing I know about the Miami stuff was that he had a conversation in NYC last year and never went to Miami about the job. He goes to NYC for a meeting every year with Myers and they're in NYC now.

From what I can tell, he never was a serious candidate for the job and that it's been overblown. I've heard of him saying he knew he'd never get a better job if he didn't make changes at Tech, but I've never heard of him actually interviewing for another job. He's been honest about things so far when he talks and I have no reason to not believe him now. Yeah, I'd like to hear he wants to stay, but maybe he wants leverage for more money or maybe he'll always listen to offers, but that doesn't mean he wants to go.

Leach was falling all over himself for the Miami gig. That's pretty much common knowledge. He was never considered a favorite of Miami's, but he most certainly was considered. In the end, most of the interest was coming from Leach and not Miami.

[Firebird]

Just watch how the media works. I read stuff all the time where the media makes stuff up. Some people don't care to fight everything the media makes up. Donna Shalala and Miami say that Leach wasn't a candidate for the job last year. Leach said nobody at UCLA had talked to him yet. I don't know if that changed in the last day. If I were Leach, I'd talk to somebody, but that doesn't mean you want to leave. I had an offer to change jobs and move to Alabama a few months ago. You know I love it here, but I still discussed it and then said no. Leach just isn't a puppet that the media will manipulate. If he says no to UCLA and then goes public, they'll just make up another team.

He probably wasn't a candidate, but not for lack of trying on his part.

[dragonsdaddy]

if there ever was a thread that brings severe, debilitating tired-head, this is it. i hope it isn't permanent.

[HUM398]

Lonny you're like that little kid who discovers that Santa Clause isn't real...So you fight so hard to lie to yourself to the point that you buy into your own insanity...

[lonny23]

Lonny you're like that little kid who discovers that Santa Clause isn't real...So you fight so hard to lie to yourself to the point that you buy into your own insanity...
Leach has said there was one conversation in NYC about the job, but never a formal interview. Everything you guys have read is media articles and nothing that has been said by Leach, Tech, and Miami.

[lonny23]

Leach was falling all over himself for the Miami gig. That's pretty much common knowledge. He was never considered a favorite of Miami's, but he most certainly was considered. In the end, most of the interest was coming from Leach and not Miami.
People, times, and situations change. You can't take the past and project to the future.

All I know is last year was a bad year at Tech. There were many problems. That wasn't as much the case this year.

Yes, I think he was at least interested in the job, but I think the biggest kick in the crotch for him was that they didn't want him. It's not as much that he wanted to leave (Maybe he did) or was going to leave, but I know he hated the fact that he wasn't wanted by somebody else. Miami gets good recruits, but they have bad facilities. They also pay less than Tech.

Leach knows things are on the upswing at Tech and he was a lot happier this year. He's made changes to be a better coach and he's even gone on record to say that he'd much rather be on the list of potential candidates for other jobs vs. losing his own job. Leach wants to be desirable to other teams more than he wants to move to another team.

[Dawg Fan]

Leach will be gone...take it to the bank and I don't think its a bad thing. They need someone to come in there and get them to the next level and Leach can't do it.

[lonny23]

Leach will be gone...take it to the bank and I don't think its a bad thing. They need someone to come in there and get them to the next level and Leach can't do it.
The rest of this offseason and 2008 will show if Leach can get it done at Tech. My guess is things are about to get a LOT better at Tech.

[lonny23]

I'd also like to add that the missing piece to all these coaching rumors is how they give coaches leverage to get more money. Coaches, by nature, don't want to usually pick up and leave for other schools to build again. They typically stay in the same spot until they get fired or about to get fired. What they do is talk to other schools to scare their current school into paying more money to not lose what they have and start all over. I just read Tommy Bowden is about to sign for $2M a year at Clemson, which is a huge raise. I guess Clemson doesn't want to start all over and Bowden decided to not go to Arkysaw.

[jtk1519]

The rest of this offseason and 2008 will show if Leach can get it done at Tech. My guess is things are about to get a LOT better at Tech.

And what exactly is that "guess" based upon?

[Dawg Fan]

The rest of this offseason and 2008 will show if Leach can get it done at Tech. My guess is things are about to get a LOT better at Tech.

Its been wait till next year for quite some time now. I want to see Tech move up and I think they have gone as far as they can go with Leach. He has done a good job but Tech could be better with someone else at the helm. JMO

[lonny23]

And what exactly is that "guess" based upon?
Why do you care?:D

[jtk1519]

Why do you care?:D

We're two reasonably intelligent gentlemen. Let us discuss our opinions in such a manner

[lonny23]

We're two reasonably intelligent gentlemen. Let us discuss our opinions in such a manner
I'm not saying. I get tired of the garbage from you guys. There is much thought that goes into what I say and info/research are pillars of my character. Needless to say, I wouldn't be on a soapbox about Leach staying if signs didn't point to him doing just the opposite of looking elsewhere.

You guys can't have it both ways. I can't be the biggest conspiracy guy on here, but at the same time be a blind homer that's oblivious to the outside world. I've always been right down the middle with you guys and that won't change. I freely give you what I perceive as the good and bad at Tech along with the other guys. Only an idiot, and I mean a true idiot, would just cast aside what I say. What many fail to realize is that I don't give you the media spin on things or the popular thing to say. Being in the minority does not make me wrong. What I say should make people think about it for a minute or two. My crusade has always been about dishonesty in sports and life in general, so don't think for a minute that I wouldn't consider the merits of Leach leaving Lubbock.

It's like I tell people all the time. You guys all know how much and when you lie. Sports are no different and a much bigger stage with the money involved. Don't think for a minute that everything the media says is true because you know it's not. They make up stories. They try to sell angles for money and it's just a money industry. Many sports columnists spew made up stuff just to make people mad, keep their jobs, but generate feedback.

[slorch]

His active and fervent pursuit of the Miami job makes me think he wants out of Lubbock. I know he thinks highly of the school and town, but I think he feels like he has gone as far as he can go at Tech. It's quite obvious that he wants something else.

Wouldn't you?

i would never say tech is the best it could get.

I will say this. if the dude leaves, Tech fan cannot accuse him of not working to the very end on making the Red raiders better.

I will give kudos to him for that, no matter which way he decides.

All of this loyalty stuff at the College and Pro levels really bugs me. you're selling your services, just like i do at my job. if I have an opportunity to increase the compensation I receive for said services, who can blame a guy for doing that? He would be leaving tech in great shape going forward, so I don't think we as Red Raiders could accuse leach of not making some deposits in the Football program before he left. College football is a business, even though most of its employees work for free( at least documented pay.)

i wouldn't blame Leach if he left for $2.75mm. If it was the $1.6mm you mentioned the other day, then yes, I'd be wondering why a guy would make that financial decision.

[slorch]

Don't tell Lonny and Slorch. To them, it's obvious that he wants nothing more than to stay in Lubbock because he has an awesome team coming back.

I am amazed at the capacity some people have to BS themselves. If he really had no interest in another job, he'd come out and say it. He wouldn't be playing his game of "make it sound like I'm denying rumors when in fact I am confirming them."

go back and read my posts. i said these are reasons he should stay. i didn't say he was dumb if he left. i just pointed out some things that aren't typical of guys that are looking to leave, not just colleg football, but any job.

[slorch]

Just watch how the media works. I read stuff all the time where the media makes stuff up. Some people don't care to fight everything the media makes up. Donna Shalala and Miami say that Leach wasn't a candidate for the job last year. Leach said nobody at UCLA had talked to him yet. I don't know if that changed in the last day. If I were Leach, I'd talk to somebody, but that doesn't mean you want to leave. I had an offer to change jobs and move to Alabama a few months ago. You know I love it here, but I still discussed it and then said no. Leach just isn't a puppet that the media will manipulate. If he says no to UCLA and then goes public, they'll just make up another team.

what is to be gained by questioning Leach's desire to stay in Lubbock? It's almost understood that there are more desirable coaching locales out there, not to mention places with much more to do thatn Lubbock does.

I guess next, you're going to say they are attempting to undermine our recruiting? Those 2 and 3 star recruits are going to think less about Lubbock now that the LA papers are talking about leach...

Look, if tech had a guy that was content with never improving his own career, I would also question his desire to improve Tech's lot in football as well. i am pretty sure( Herbstreit) leach has interviewed with Arkiesaw and Ga Tech. so what. the guy does a great job, and has earned other opportunities. i will take a coach like that every time.

[slorch]

if there ever was a thread that brings severe, debilitating tired-head, this is it. i hope it isn't permanent.

just keep a bottle of jack daniels by the computer...:D

farmer taught me that one...
( we haven't forgotten about you buddy!)

[slorch]

We're two reasonably intelligent gentlemen. Let us discuss our opinions in such a manner

If you're wrong twice in the same sentence, does that make it correct?:D

[Reaganrattler07]

People, times, and situations change. You can't take the past and project to the future.

All I know is last year was a bad year at Tech. There were many problems. That wasn't as much the case this year.

Yes, I think he was at least interested in the job, but I think the biggest kick in the crotch for him was that they didn't want him. It's not as much that he wanted to leave (Maybe he did) or was going to leave, but I know he hated the fact that he wasn't wanted by somebody else. Miami gets good recruits, but they have bad facilities. They also pay less than Tech.

Leach knows things are on the upswing at Tech and he was a lot happier this year. He's made changes to be a better coach and he's even gone on record to say that he'd much rather be on the list of potential candidates for other jobs vs. losing his own job. Leach wants to be desirable to other teams more than he wants to move to another team.

Biggest contradiction Lonny has ever said.

You throw pages of past stats and worthless nonsense at us and tell us what is going to happen in the future.

heck, you even predicted tceh would be the best football power in the next few years based on past stats.

[lonny23]

what is to be gained by questioning Leach's desire to stay in Lubbock? It's almost understood that there are more desirable coaching locales out there, not to mention places with much more to do thatn Lubbock does.

I guess next, you're going to say they are attempting to undermine our recruiting? Those 2 and 3 star recruits are going to think less about Lubbock now that the LA papers are talking about leach...

Look, if tech had a guy that was content with never improving his own career, I would also question his desire to improve Tech's lot in football as well. i am pretty sure( Herbstreit) leach has interviewed with Arkiesaw and Ga Tech. so what. the guy does a great job, and has earned other opportunities. i will take a coach like that every time.I'm not saying the media is trying to hurt Tech. I'm saying they make stuff up to keep their job, make money, etc. The people who want to hurt Tech are the ones who use the articles to the kids Tech is trying to recruit, but Tech has their say behind the scenes.

I'm not blaming Leach for talking to anybody. I heard rumors that they were going to offer to let me move to Alabama if I desired (The military doesn't usually give you a choice, but I've had choices in 97, 01, 04, and 07 about taking jobs) and I asked about it. I heard that they were true and thought about it. I wanted to be here and I told them I wanted to stay. I'm just as loyal as I always was, but I still talked.

[Dawg Fan]

Biggest contradiction Lonny has ever said.

You throw pages of past stats and worthless nonsense at us and tell us what is going to happen in the future.

heck, you even predicted tceh would be the best football power in the next few years based on past stats.



BAM!!!!

[slorch]

BAM!!!!

funny you should say that.

i have this strange feeling, we're fixing to be served a nice big plate of

Essence of Lonny

[lonny23]

If you're wrong twice in the same sentence, does that make it correct?:D
I counted 3 times because it got shaky after "We're two"!:D

[lonny23]

Biggest contradiction Lonny has ever said.

You throw pages of past stats and worthless nonsense at us and tell us what is going to happen in the future.

heck, you even predicted tceh would be the best football power in the next few years based on past stats.
So I left out the word behavior. You knew what I meant. Stick to the topic.

Past behavior.

[jtk1519]

If you're wrong twice in the same sentence, does that make it correct?:D

Two rights make a super-right. :D

[lonny23]

funny you should say that.

i have this strange feeling, we're fixing to be served a nice big plate of

Essence of Lonny
No, he's just being an idiot. We're talking about the behavior of a person. Many times it's true that leopards don't change their spots, but it's crazy to think that a coach is planning to leave in 2007 because he wanted to talk about a job in 2006. These people don't know what level of happiness Leach has in his job. Maybe he likes it a lot more than before. I know just from what he's said that he likes the 07 team a LOT more than the 06 team.

[Reaganrattler07]

No, he's just being an idiot. We're talking about the behavior of a person. Many times it's true that leopards don't change their spots, but it's crazy to think that a coach is planning to leave in 2007 because he wanted to talk about a job in 2006. These people don't know what level of happiness Leach has in his job. Maybe he likes it a lot more than before. I know just from what he's said that he likes the 07 team a LOT more than the 06 team.

Oh, Lonny....poor Lonny.

Unless you're his best, BEST friend.

You have about as much opinion as anyone.

And I think it was Hum who compared you to the kid who just didn't accept Santa Claus was fake (sorry if you didn't know already).

[lonny23]

Oh, Lonny....poor Lonny.

Unless you're his best, BEST friend.

You have about as much opinion as anyone.

And I think it was Hum who compared you to the kid who just didn't accept Santa Claus was fake (sorry if you didn't know already).
No, I actually have more of an opinion than most of you because it happens to be my favorite team. I've heard the coaches, players, and others around the team talk about the difference between this year and last year. I've talked about it, too. I've talked about the bad appples from last year and I've talked about the bad apples from this year. When it comes to Tech, I've posted some good info. I've mentioned players that were going to be held out of games several days before gameday and all kinds of stuff.

Nobody has come out and said, "There's no way Leach is leaving Lubbock." I've just said that events tell me that's not the case. If Leach was really trying to leave town this year, I'd think there would be signs that showed me he was leaning that way and I would've already told other Tech fans that I think he's trying to leave.

[Reaganrattler07]

No, I actually have more of an opinion than most of you because it happens to be my favorite team. I've heard the coaches, players, and others around the team talk about the difference between this year and last year. I've talked about it, too. I've talked about the bad appples from last year and I've talked about the bad apples from this year. When it comes to Tech, I've posted some good info. I've mentioned players that were going to be held out of games several days before gameday and all kinds of stuff.

Nobody has come out and said, "There's no way Leach is leaving Lubbock." I've just said that events tell me that's not the case. If Leach was really trying to leave town this year, I'd think there would be signs that showed me he was leaning that way and I would've already told other Tech fans that I think he's trying to leave.

:laugh

Deep down, I almost feel sorry for you.

If thats what you wanna believe, go right ahead.

All I can picture is Mike Gundy yelling "It's not truuuuuueeeee!":laugh

[HUM398]

No, I actually have more of an opinion than most of you because it happens to be my favorite team. I've heard the coaches, players, and others around the team talk about the difference between this year and last year. I've talked about it, too. I've talked about the bad appples from last year and I've talked about the bad apples from this year. When it comes to Tech, I've posted some good info. I've mentioned players that were going to be held out of games several days before gameday and all kinds of stuff.

Nobody has come out and said, "There's no way Leach is leaving Lubbock." I've just said that events tell me that's not the case. If Leach was really trying to leave town this year, I'd think there would be signs that showed me he was leaning that way and I would've already told other Tech fans that I think he's trying to leave.

KT's are gonna have to change the server before Leach leaves, or Lonny is singlehandedly bring this board crashing down. expect a jump from 27,000+ posts to somewhere around 60,000 to occur overnight...

Oh i see it now...

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/stnic/images/time1994-wmaster.jpg

[lonny23]

:laugh

Deep down, I almost feel sorry for you.

If thats what you wanna believe, go right ahead.

All I can picture is Mike Gundy yelling "It's not truuuuuueeeee!":laugh
You can feel how you want to, but I'll say this. There are plenty of things I find out that I don't mention on here (Not just Tech-related). I'm talking legitimate true stuff, not just rumors that people make up.

[Reaganrattler07]

You can feel how you want to, but I'll say this. There are plenty of things I find out that I don't mention on here (Not just Tech-related). I'm talking legitimate true stuff, not just rumors that people make up.

And this is supposed to mean what?

[lonny23]

And this is supposed to mean what?
It means that I don't want to potentially hurt events that are helpful for Tech and sometimes damaging to others.

[Reaganrattler07]

It means that I don't want to potentially hurt events that are helpful for Tech and sometimes damaging to others.

I'm just going to remember what one of my teachers told me once and stop there.

"Rattler, if you try to understand stupidity, you start down the path of becomming stupid"

[slorch]

I'm just going to remember what one of my teachers told me once and stop there.

"Rattler, if you try to understand stupidity, you start down the path of becomming stupid"

or one could learn to recognize it and avoid it, yet the Redskins crap keeps coming from your keyboard...:rolleyes::D

[Reaganrattler07]

or one could learn to recognize it and avoid it, yet the Redskins crap keeps coming from your keyboard...:rolleyes::D

Hey, I haven't talked about them all year!

Apart from when they played the Eagles.

And the incredibly stupid double timeout.:mad:

[slorch]

this might be a complement, or dementia, but i think of you when I see the 'skins on TV.

You note the obsession, or whatever, but that's the truth.:(

Personally I hate the deadskins, but that soesn't correlate with how I feel about you.:rolleyes:

Your loyalty is honorable, however misplaced it might be...:D

[lonny23]

Here's an Orange County article about Leach not going to UCLA.

http://www.ocregister.com/sports/coach-search-leach-1936265-bowl-walker

I do think there's a big difference between being interested in talking and actually leaving. I heard friends with ties to Arky would play a part if he talked to the pigs. As it is, he was going to Arky to recruit kids.

That quote Leach had about not knowing how much money he makes is what another CA paper used as a basis to say that money isn't an issue for Leach. This is the kind of stuff that I talk about as being irresponsible reporting by the media. You could tell that Leach didn't want to really talk to the papers and they use the few things he did say to make some kind of statement of his intererst.

[lonny23]

Here's an Orange County article about Leach not going to UCLA.

http://www.ocregister.com/sports/coach-search-leach-1936265-bowl-walker

I do think there's a big difference between being interested in talking and actually leaving. I heard friends with ties to Arky would play a part if he talked to the pigs. As it is, he was going to Arky to recruit kids.

That quote Leach had about not knowing how much money he makes is what another CA paper used as a basis to say that money isn't an issue for Leach. This is the kind of stuff that I talk about as being irresponsible reporting by the media. You could tell that Leach didn't want to really talk to the papers and they use the few things he did say to make some kind of statement of his intererst.The sources in this article
http://www2.presstelegram.com/moresports/ci_7646248
sound like it was the article I just linked. That's the dirty game the media plays. They take somebody else's words, add their spin, and report it as fact. That goes for all sports.

[slorch]

JTK> Herbstreit

only because he lives in Texas. Otherwise, they both need some new sources...

[lonny23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPcMXWJjUg

Deep down, I still say this guy is too "out there" for most of the so-called "name" teams and he already has a job better than the vast majority of teams. The guy getting paid around #20 to coach a team in a hot recruiting state for football and working with a top 25 athletic budget doesn't just drop everything to run off to a school just because they have an opening.

It takes a better situation all the way around and that's a small number of colleges. The last few months have sent a message to me that it would be foolish for Leach to leave now.

[lonny23]

A Scouts.com UCLA guy had this to say below. I bet they get another unproven coach because they don't want to throw down the dough and pay the football guy more than the basketball coach:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Apparently the rumored salary numbers we have heard before KD was fired are not that far off. I believe bounce said a few weeks ago it was in the 1.5-1.7 area.

That seems to be the number as not to eclipse Howland.

Leach was not deemed a fit because (and I think this was a literal reaction) he laughed at that range.

Mooch wants slightly north of 2.

The hiring of a outside agency had very little to do with helping DG select the coach, rather it was to vet the candidates so they wouldn't have a repeat of George O'leary.

The search is not a sham like it was five years ago. There is an extensive search going on."

[lonny23]

A Scouts.com UCLA guy had this to say below. I bet they get another unproven coach because they don't want to throw down the dough and pay the football guy more than the basketball coach:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Apparently the rumored salary numbers we have heard before KD was fired are not that far off. I believe bounce said a few weeks ago it was in the 1.5-1.7 area.

That seems to be the number as not to eclipse Howland.

Leach was not deemed a fit because (and I think this was a literal reaction) he laughed at that range.

Mooch wants slightly north of 2.

The hiring of a outside agency had very little to do with helping DG select the coach, rather it was to vet the candidates so they wouldn't have a repeat of George O'leary.

The search is not a sham like it was five years ago. There is an extensive search going on."I don't blame Leach for laughing.

Check out the evidence:

Leach has done this at Tech since 2003:

03 8-5 (Won Houston Bowl)
04 8-4 (Won Holiday Bowl)
05 9-3 (Lost Cotton Bowl)
06 8-5 (Won Insight Bowl)
07 8-4 (In Gator Bowl)

This was Dorrell since 03:

03 6-7 (Lost Silicon Valley Bowl)
04 6-6 (Lost Las Vegas Bowl)
05 10-2 (Won Sun Bowl)
06 7-6 (Lost Emerald Bowl)
07 6-6 (In Las Vegas Bowl)

Leach had less talent every year, but still went to a better bowl every year and had a better record in 4 of the 5 years. They wanted him to move to a high-priced area and take a paycut. UCLA will get what they deserve for being cheap.