Is Clemens the best team in Region 4?

[KT2000]

With Judson and Smithson Valley slipping up in district play, do you think Clemens is the best team in Region 4 right now? Or are they just coasting along against weaker competition?

Before the season, Smithson Valley looked like a clear regional favorite on paper and they rebounded last week after losing their first game of the year. San Antonio Madison is sitting at the top of 26-5A, but they've played two of the weaker teams.

Who's the team to beat in Region 4 as of now?

[mad_fan]

This should be interesting. We can't even agree on the best around San Antonio. :D

[KT2000]

Yeah :D . Maybe we should do this in buy or sell format.

Buy or Sell Clemens as the best team in Region 4. Back yourself up either way.

[bubbacoach]

The Valley and Rockets are the odds on favorite. They will playoff tested before they enter the playoffs. Now I am not discounting the Buffs, it will just depend on when and if the Rockets accept their new offense.

[DiamondJ2]

good points, bubba. Clemens has the record, but only average caliber of competition. They may be the real thing. Just have to see how they handle Seguin & SM which they should, then it will be playoff time. Maybe that upset bug will travel from 26-5A to 25-5A.

[KT2000]

Come on people, answer the question. Buy or Sell Clemens as the best team in Region 4 right now.

[DiamondJ2]

Ok, KT, here is my answer, dang dropped the coin again. Let's try paper, rock, scissors, nope that won't work either. Dang it. Let me contemplate some more.

[KT2000]

Hehe, we can't have any diplomats in this thread.

So, no "there are two sides to every issue, and I agree with both" answers allowed. :D

I'll go ahead and chime in...

I'm buying Clemens as the best team in Region 4 right now.

Why? They have the best scoring defense in Class 5A right now and one of the most talented athletes in the state playing running back. Sure, they've beaten up on some suspect competition but their defensive strength will allow them to compete with anyone. The offense is rounding into form, and that's only going to make them stronger down the road.

[JackHandey_98]

Clemens, SV and Judson are still the top three in the region. All three teams have great defenses and ok offenses. I dont think anyone else in the region has a team within 14 points unless they have a really off night, like SV had against Churchill. If these three get there offenses rolling now they could tear through the playoffs, although Clemens and Judson will probably have at it in the first round. Madison can claim they are the one to beat but anyone with any sense still knows its SV and Judson. Madison does not have a good defense and usually has a really undisciplined offense coming out close to playoff time, but they might grab that third spot if they can hold off Roosevelt Mac and churchill.

[JackHandey_98]

I think SV has the slight edge. Between all three teams...Judson,SV, and Clemens the defenses are outstanding ,however the offenses are not to great,yet.

I think coming down between Clemens and Judson the running defenses are just too good and someone is going to have to throw to win, and if Judson can learn to pass block a little better they have a slight edge over Clemens. However if the de's are running around the line, like SV's, the game might look a lot like the SV-Judson game.

[mad_fan]

Okay KT2000, we'll do it like a stock trade. Took a little research time, but here you go.

The best they've beat : SA Roosevelt (15-3)
The worst : Waco, Taylor, Austin, SA Highland, SA Jefferson

Looking at the worst teams offensive ppg I found:
Waco 11.8 ppg
Taylor 15.6 ppg
Austin 17.0 ppg
Highlands 14.6 ppg
Jefferson 7.4 ppg

Looking further:
Waco ran up their average against Shoemaker and A&M Consolidated.
Taylor(4A) ran up their's against Burnet(4A), Rockdale(3A), and Ellison(4A).
Austin upped their average against Stony Point and Austin Bowie.
Highlands against McCollum and Houston.
And Jefferson against SA South Side (4A) and SA Edison (4A).

My conclusion: I will put Waco up in the Roosevelt category of average teams. The balance of the teams get into the bad category. The only teams they do score on are the bottom of the barrel or really bad 4A teams. What would I really be buying? Too bad they don't play anybody. If this were a stock I would pass. If I were an owner I'd sell. I'm not sold on the defense arguement in spite of the few ppg they allow. They may just have a scheduling problem but I have to make a decision now.

I also looked at this the other way around: Clemens O ppg v. what the opposition allows and came to the same conclusion.

Disclaimer: As with stocks, looking at the past doesnt always work. I didn't buy Google at the IPO, but I did buy it. After San Marcos I may put in a bid.

[stressybessy]

I'll buy Clemens. We statistically have the best defense but the attitude of these guys is for real, they do not like it when someone scores on them. I am hearing good things about the teamwork and comraderie they have. These alone cannot carry the team but with the talent KT has pointed and the positive winning attitude, I agree, they are the best in Region 4. (oh, we have a great new head coach too) :D

[KT2000]

I'm not going to defend their schedule as being tough. I'm sure you know your stocks well enough to know the old saying..."Buy low, sell high."

I'm buying them right now because I feel like, despite the suspect schedule, that they'd match up favorably against anyone in the region. With the offense gaining confidence they'll be a better team overall.

Also, with Clemens you don't have to necessarily worry about them coming out of district play beat up like 26-5A. So, if they can take care of business in district I like their future outlook because it looks like 26-5A may end up taking each other out.

[mad_fan]

I'm not going to defend their schedule as being tough. I'm sure you know your stocks well enough to know the old saying..."Buy low, sell high."

I'm buying them right now because I feel like, despite the suspect schedule, that they'd match up favorably against anyone in the region. With the offense gaining confidence they'll be a better team overall.

Also, with Clemens you don't have to necessarily worry about them coming out of district play beat up like 26-5A. So, if they can take care of business in district I like their future outlook because it looks like 26-5A may end up taking each other out.


And I've done my fair share of Buying Low, and Selling LOWER.

[sendero]

I don't know if you could hands down say they are the best. They are certainly playing as good as anybody right now defensively. I admit the level of competition may not be that high but they still have to get it done every week. I think if they lined up right now Clemens could make it out of Region IV,... now at week 10 things could be different. They rely a lot on Henry so could they be like Churchill a one man show? I haven't seen them play so that may be premature but the media certainly only talks about Henry.

I don't think you can look back on past Clemens teams and say this team will act like the rest. They have a new head coach this year and he could be what they needed to break through to the State Finals. I wasn't impressed with the past coach because as others have said, man for man they had some truly talented teams in '98 & '03 and didn't get past Region III because I feel they ran into better coaching not necessarily better athletes. I think I got those years right???

Just my two cents.....

[stressybessy]

Good Post sendero, very realistic, I think it was 99 and 03. 99 we were 4A and 03 I remember vividly. What a year! I certainly can see the Buffs making it that far with the strengths that they have.

[TexasRed6x]

I am going to have to sell on this one. Clemens is good but I don't think they would be 5-0 if they had to play SV, CC or Pv at this time. I not saying they would not beat one of those teams but with their schedule both Judson and Sv would also be 5-0. I get KT's idea about not being beat up like you would by playing in 26-5A, but on the other hand you do not get many chances to really have to play very hatrd to win the game. I remember several times in the late 80's where a team like Judson would just kill all the teams in their district, but in the playoffs they just were not prepared to win against talent that they may have been better. I do not think that Seguin will give them the game everyone thinks they will and SM I just do not have a feel for yet.

[SeguinMatadors]

I buy Clemens as the best team in region 4. They have the best defense in the state according to the numbers. Therefore, even if their O is having an off night, in the fourth quarter they will be right there. Oh yeah, and they got James Henry, an All American running back. Man, James is the real deal too. He is a threat to score every time he touches the ball. I think that defense and James makes them the favorite over any team in this region.

[SVite]

well right off the bat they would most likely have to defeat a nemisis called Judson,and with a new head coach!I knew of another team that had a better tail back than Henry,his name is wilkerson,who lost to SV`s team last year,after putting up 300+ yards.When your blowing teams out,your focus isnt their like it would be when your fighting for your play -off life in district.

Clemens last big play-off run was in 03,which beat an SV team by 3 points in the dome.SV was from the district their in right now,and won by huge margins.In one stretch we scored over 50 points in 4 straight games.Clemens was our 1st big test,granted we fumbled on the 20 yard line with 3 minutes left.Clemens ran the ball to the hash marks best for their field goal kicker,and won the game on a field goal.

Clemens went on and lost to eventual champ Katy,who beat SLC.Clemens came out of war tested 26 5A.With all that said,I`m not buying,I`m buying Judson in DIV 1,and SV in DIV 11.Just like last year.Judson`s run defense will stymie clemens run,and will have to pass to win.Their pass defense is good also.Just an opinion :cool:

[Go Buffs]

They rely a lot on Henry so could they be like Churchill a one man show? I haven't seen them play so that may be premature but the media certainly only talks about Henry.

sendero, you're not quite right and right on your points.

Yes, the TV media only talks about Henry and the print media at least mentions the defense sometimes, but Henry all the time.

However, the Buffs don't rely on Henry the way, say, Clark relied on Wilkerson last year, when it seemed their purpose for the season was to get Wilkerson the SA rushing record even if it meant nobody else got carries. I believe Henry's high in touches this year was about 22 with lows of 7 and 9
this last week.

As I wrote in another thread, I was thrilled with last week because he had just the 9 touches and they were very spread out. They used very non-Clemens type passing plays(less than 30+yd prayers), as well as several other running backs(which they've been doing every week). If they keep woking on offensive diversity, then I'd like their chances against Judson this year.

Obviously, Henry's the guy. But I like what they're doing if they keep working on it, because he becomes more dangerous when he's not the whole show. Thanks to Judson's dominance in last year's game, plus Coach Ferrara, it's looking more promising this time.


PS...the defense is for real, too. The key will be whether or not the offense can stay on the field long enough to give the defense a breather in the playoffs. If the offense can go without Henry on some drives, then the playoff defense can be even better with Henry spending time there.

[clemensbuff]

I don't know if you could hands down say they are the best. They are certainly playing as good as anybody right now defensively. I admit the level of competition may not be that high but they still have to get it done every week. I think if they lined up right now Clemens could make it out of Region IV,... now at week 10 things could be different. They rely a lot on Henry so could they be like Churchill a one man show? I haven't seen them play so that may be premature but the media certainly only talks about Henry.

I don't think you can look back on past Clemens teams and say this team will act like the rest. They have a new head coach this year and he could be what they needed to break through to the State Finals. I wasn't impressed with the past coach because as others have said, man for man they had some truly talented teams in '98 & '03 and didn't get past Region III because I feel they ran into better coaching not necessarily better athletes. I think I got those years right???

Just my two cents.....

Nail hit squarely on the head except the year was 99' not 98' that Clemens made it to the semis.

[clemensbuff]

well right off the bat they would most likely have to defeat a nemisis called Judson,and with a new head coach!I knew of another team that had a better tail back than Henry,his name is wilkerson,who lost to SV`s team last year,after putting up 300+ yards.When your blowing teams out,your focus isnt their like it would be when your fighting for your play -off life in district.

Clemens last big play-off run was in 03,which beat an SV team by 3 points in the dome.SV was from the district their in right now,and won by huge margins.In one stretch we scored over 50 points in 4 straight games.Clemens was our 1st big test,granted we fumbled on the 20 yard line with 3 minutes left.Clemens ran the ball to the hash marks best for their field goal kicker,and won the game on a field goal.

Clemens went on and lost to eventual champ Katy,who beat SLC.Clemens came out of war tested 26 5A.With all that said,I`m not buying,I`m buying Judson in DIV 1,and SV in DIV 11.Just like last year.Judson`s run defense will stymie clemens run,and will have to pass to win.Their pass defense is good also.Just an opinion :cool:

Hey SVite, you forgot to mention the three turnovers that Clemens had in that game in the Alamo Dome! Don't make it sound like SV dominated that game because they didn't. I'm not taking anything away from SV because they did have a good defense and even though we moved the ball up and down the field they clamped down when it counted! I also would agree with your comments about coming out of a tough district gives that team an advantage in a tough playoff game.

[clemensbuff]

well right off the bat they would most likely have to defeat a nemisis called Judson,and with a new head coach!I knew of another team that had a better tail back than Henry,his name is wilkerson,who lost to SV`s team last year,after putting up 300+ yards.When your blowing teams out,your focus isnt their like it would be when your fighting for your play -off life in district.

There is a huge difference between this Clemens team and the Clark team, and also between Wilkerson and Henry. The difference in the teams are Clemens has a good defense, Clark didn't have one! You say that Wilkerson was a better tailback and I would agree with you somewhat. He was a great HS tailback, but I don't really look for much out of him in college because of his size. Also, Clark would give him the ball 30+ times a game and he was their entire offense. Henry has great size along with speed and he is not our entire offense! He will probably never take a handoff in college but will be one hell of a safety!

[rattlerbacker]

The weaker schedule argument may or may not mean anything; Smithson Valley heard that same argument used against them all year in 2002 and it didn't stop them from getting to the state finals.

All of the top teams in this region have strong defenses and run the ball more and better than they pass so I give the nod to the team that can pass the ball when they have to and the team with the best kicking game, because I think any matchups of the top teams in the region will be low scoring.

Who has the best punter and kicker? I honestly don't know the answer but if any of these teams have a big advantage there then thats who I would pick as having the best chance to win in any of these matchups.

So to answer your buy-sell question, KT, I still have a hold on my Rattlers until proven otherwise. :D

[clemensbuff]

Okay KT2000, we'll do it like a stock trade. Took a little research time, but here you go.

The best they've beat : SA Roosevelt (15-3)
The worst : Waco, Taylor, Austin, SA Highland, SA Jefferson

Looking at the worst teams offensive ppg I found:
Waco 11.8 ppg
Taylor 15.6 ppg
Austin 17.0 ppg
Highlands 14.6 ppg
Jefferson 7.4 ppg

Looking further:
Waco ran up their average against Shoemaker and A&M Consolidated.
Taylor(4A) ran up their's against Burnet(4A), Rockdale(3A), and Ellison(4A).
Austin upped their average against Stony Point and Austin Bowie.
Highlands against McCollum and Houston.
And Jefferson against SA South Side (4A) and SA Edison (4A).

My conclusion: I will put Waco up in the Roosevelt category of average teams. The balance of the teams get into the bad category. The only teams they do score on are the bottom of the barrel or really bad 4A teams. What would I really be buying? Too bad they don't play anybody. If this were a stock I would pass. If I were an owner I'd sell. I'm not sold on the defense arguement in spite of the few ppg they allow. They may just have a scheduling problem but I have to make a decision now.

I also looked at this the other way around: Clemens O ppg v. what the opposition allows and came to the same conclusion.

Disclaimer: As with stocks, looking at the past doesnt always work. I didn't buy Google at the IPO, but I did buy it. After San Marcos I may put in a bid.

You make some interesting points. But think about this. We gave up 3 points to Roosevelt and that was set up by a blocked punt that set them up at our 30 yard line. How many points did Madison give up to them and Roosevelt was missing 6 or 7 of their starters?????

[Gridiron Gopher]

Clemens could be the best team in SA right now but it's hard to tell. If we agree that Clemens, SV and Judson (which I'm not sure those are your top 3 teams) you would have to say Clemens is the best right now followed by SV and then Judson. SV's lose to Churchill was no fluke. I've told everyone here that Churchill (with Fanuzzi) could beat any team they play but their pass defense has killed them on missed assignments and lack of speed. Their D-Line is as good as I have seen and can stop any run oriented offense's. Churchill will get beat through the air and that's what has happened to them so far.
I not sure SV's or Judson's defense is as tight as everyone thinks. Both have tradition of very good defenses but both offenses are struggling right now. Last weeks game looks like they both have tough defenses but I think that the offensive issues that both teams have made their defenses look better then they are.
I'd look for more upsets this week in 265a. Both Judson and SV have come back to the pack and all but Lee have made the move up to Judson and SV. Now Roosevelt, Madison, Mac, Reagan and Churchill (without Fanuzzi) get their shot.
The key for those teams is how their strenghts matchup to Judson and SV's weaknesses on defense
Clemens should be rated the best in the SA area right now. They deserve it.

[zippy]

I will wait until week 8 or so to make a choice. SV always steps it up as the year goes on. Brand new QB, and brand new Soph RB this year that need to get it going. Defense is one of the best around. Special Team ARE THE BEST. You might get yards on them, but they will score 3 TD's and hold you to 1. And that is a win even without a TD pass or run on offense. As soon as the offense begins to help out, I will make a choice.

[zippy]

This is based on the first team being on the field. 5 games, one of them against a very potent PV offense. SV has held teams to 9.8 points per game. What kind of improvement do you want? Where is the weakness?


The key for those teams is how their strenghts matchup to Judson and SV's weaknesses on defense
Clemens should be rated the best in the SA area right now. They deserve it.

[mad_fan]

You make some interesting points. But think about this. We gave up 3 points to Roosevelt and that was set up by a blocked punt that set them up at our 30 yard line. How many points did Madison give up to them and Roosevelt was missing 6 or 7 of their starters?????

I wouldn't buy Madison either! :D
Madison in a Clemens thread? Actually I like it. We can share a trophy case. :rolleyes:

[Clemensfan]

yes clemens is the best in this region and san Antonio area and has the best defence and should be in the Top 5 in the State.

[bubbacoach]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah You crack me up

[Reaganrattler07]

yes clemens is the best in this region and san Antonio area and has the best defence and should be in the Top 5 in the State.

That may be pushing it a bit. Who has Clemens played in 26-5A?....I should say what quality teams did Clemens play from 26-5A

[bubbacoach]

Clemens is good, but it is yet to be seen, what they will do against quality comp.

[Reaganrattler07]

Clemens is good, but it is yet to be seen, what they will do against quality comp.

I still say SV is the best from Region IV....and I honestly don't like the Rangers a whole lot but they desreve the respect.

We'll have to wait until the first round of the playoffs.

[clemensbuff]

[QUOTE=Redskins88]That may be pushing it a bit. Who has Clemens played in 26-5A?....I should say what quality teams did Clemens play from 26-5A[/QUOTE

The only 26-5a team we played this year was Roosevelt. 15-3 win. And we played them before they excused 1/3 of their starters from their team. We blew several drives and scoring opportunities because of bone-headed penalties and turnovers. Roosevelt's FG came after they blocked a punt and were set up on our 30 yard line.

[Reaganrattler07]

[QUOTE=Redskins88]That may be pushing it a bit. Who has Clemens played in 26-5A?....I should say what quality teams did Clemens play from 26-5A[/QUOTE

The only 26-5a team we played this year was Roosevelt. 15-3 win. And we played them before they excused 1/3 of their starters from their team. We blew several drives and scoring opportunities because of bone-headed penalties and turnovers. Roosevelt's FG came after they blocked a punt and were set up on our 30 yard line.

Give Roosevelt a few weeks before we start calling them a premier team....in fact, we may wanna wait until tonight to be saying that.

[mad_fan]

[QUOTE=clemensbuff]

Give Roosevelt a few weeks before we start calling them a premier team....in fact, we may wanna wait until tonight to be saying that.

Is that a prediction Skins?

[KT2000]

I knew we still had Clemens fans on this site. :)

[RedRage00]

I'm not buying it just yet.

Smithson Valley is the best in Region IV

[Reaganrattler07]

[QUOTE=Redskins88]

Is that a prediction Skins?

I meant tomorrow night..I thought they played tonight.

Everyone thought Mac was the real deal and they're out in the cold getting their clock cleaned....

[Reaganrattler07]

I'm not buying it just yet.

Smithson Valley is the best in Region IV

I agree.....Red Rage always has somethin' good to say....

[lonny23]

As of today, SV is the best team in Region 4. That can change in the next few weeks because Judson has better athletes and is breaking in the new offense.

We can't rate Clemens right now because the schedule has been a complete joke. There's no doubt they're a tough team and they very well might match up well with Judson, but for now I have to put them in 3rd. I don't have confidence that they're better than Judson and they would've lost the same games as the Rockets. I'll have a better idea about Clemens after the San Marcos game and that's still not like playing Judson or SV!

[lonny23]

As of today, SV is the best team in Region 4. That can change in the next few weeks because Judson has better athletes and is breaking in the new offense.

We can't rate Clemens right now because the schedule has been a complete joke. There's no doubt they're a tough team and they very well might match up well with Judson, but for now I have to put them in 3rd. I don't have confidence that they're better than Judson and they would've lost the same games as the Rockets. I'll have a better idea about Clemens after the San Marcos game and that's still not like playing Judson or SV!
Yeah, I liked this thread too. We had some good stuff in here.

[DiamondJ2]

Clemens who? Oh, Mark Twain. Great writer. Identity problem. New book rejected by 26-5A.

[JackHandey_98]

Clemens, SV and Judson are still the top three in the region. All three teams have great defenses and ok offenses. I dont think anyone else in the region has a team within 14 points unless they have a really off night, like SV had against Churchill. If these three get there offenses rolling now they could tear through the playoffs, although Clemens and Judson will probably have at it in the first round. Madison can claim they are the one to beat but anyone with any sense still knows its SV and Judson. Madison does not have a good defense and usually has a really undisciplined offense coming out close to playoff time, but they might grab that third spot if they can hold off Roosevelt Mac and churchill.
Boy I was wrong about Clemens

[JRocketMan]

Clemens who? Oh, Mark Twain. Great writer. Identity problem. New book rejected by 26-5A.

Exactly Clemens who..This is the football forum..Maybe in some other sports forum..U can always try basketball or soccer