Education First

[SLCDad]

The Texas Education Agency just released it's 2007 Accountability Ratings. Here are the results:

Rating.............Number of Schools........%
Exemplary..................637.................7.9 %
Recognized..............2,345................29.1%
Acceptable..............4,102................50.9%
Unacceptable..............301.................3.7%
Not Rated..................676..................8.4%
Total.....................8,061.............100.0%

Southlake Carroll was the only 5A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 11 schools in the district were rated exemplary.

Highland Park was the only 4A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 7 schools in that district were rated exemplary.

There are many larger districts that include multiple high schools, many middle schools, etc. Obviously it's much harder for these larger districts to be rated exemplary across the board. Also, most students in SLC and HP have many advantages not the least of which is money.

Congrats to all the schools who did well or who improved from last year.

[Sakatha]

The Texas Education Agency just released it's 2007 Accountability Ratings. Here are the results:

Rating.............Number of Schools........%
Exemplary..................637.................7.9 %
Recognized..............2,345................29.1%
Acceptable..............4,102................50.9%
Unacceptable..............301.................3.7%
Not Rated..................676..................8.4%
Total.....................8,061.............100.0%

Southlake Carroll was the only 5A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 11 schools in the district were rated exemplary.

Highland Park was the only 4A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 7 schools in that district were rated exemplary.

There are many larger districts that include multiple high schools, many middle schools, etc. Obviously it's much harder for these larger districts to be rated exemplary across the board. Also, most students in SLC and HP have many advantages not the least of which is money.

Congrats to all the schools who did well or who improved from last year.

And there is the #1 reason my wife and I live here...

~DnM

[wargograw]

westlakes the only high school in our district and we normally do exemplary so theres another district

[FreshmanTiger]

Congratulations:D to all the schools who did well. It is hard to be rated Exemplary or Recognized.

[SLCDad]

westlakes the only high school in our district and we normally do exemplary so theres another district

Eanes ISD got the "Recognized" rating. All of the schools in the district were rated Exemplary except Westlake High School which was rated Recognized. The scores at Westlake HS slipped just below the Exemplary line this year but were still great.

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2007/static/summary/d227909.html

[SLCDad]

By the way, there were 27 districts to be rated Exemplary for the district.

They are:

SLC has 11 schools and 5,181 students.
HP has 7 schools and 4,212 students.
Lovejoy has 4 schools and 1,381 students.
5 exemplary districts had 2 schools.
19 exemplary districts had only 1 school.

[rancher52]

By the way, there were 27 districts to be rated Exemplary for the district.

They are:

SLC has 11 schools and 5,181 students.
HP has 7 schools and 4,212 students.
Lovejoy has 4 schools and 1,381 students.
5 exemplary districts had 2 schools.
19 exemplary districts had only 1 school.

There are independent districts that have only 1 or 2 schools?? I had no idea that still existed or maybe I am misunderstanding the concept.

[SLCDad]

There are independent districts that have only 1 or 2 schools?? I had no idea that still existed or maybe I am misunderstanding the concept.

There are a TON of ISDs with 1 or 2 schools. Most are an elementary school only. Some are called "Academies" or "Learning Centers". The University of Texas has an elementary school and technically it's an ISD.


Here are a few that got the exemplary rating:

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2007/static/summary/d138904.html

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2007/static/summary/d133905.html

This one only has 27 students (who were tested):
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2007/static/summary/d161925.html

This one has 60 students.
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2007/static/summary/d019914.html

There are many, many more.

[dragons08]

so not only do we do well in athletitics, but also in academics. this just shows how well rounded carroll is.

[Phoenixrising05]

And there is the #1 reason my wife and I live here...

~DnM

Which is the reason I think 98% of people move-in as well. The type of parents who live in Southlake, unlike some other name-less districts, realize that academics are the most assured way of success. They don't move their kids into the district in the hopes of their son getting noticed on the football team and then making a living for himself in the NFL...they move them there because the academic reputation is superb, top-to-bottom.

[RedRage00]

The Texas Education Agency just released it's 2007 Accountability Ratings. Here are the results:

Rating.............Number of Schools........%
Exemplary..................637.................7.9 %
Recognized..............2,345................29.1%
Acceptable..............4,102................50.9%
Unacceptable..............301.................3.7%
Not Rated..................676..................8.4%
Total.....................8,061.............100.0%

Southlake Carroll was the only 5A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 11 schools in the district were rated exemplary.

Highland Park was the only 4A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 7 schools in that district were rated exemplary.

There are many larger districts that include multiple high schools, many middle schools, etc. Obviously it's much harder for these larger districts to be rated exemplary across the board. Also, most students in SLC and HP have many advantages not the least of which is money.

Congrats to all the schools who did well or who improved from last year.

Of course yall could be paying them to say that! :p

[RedRage00]

so not only do we do well in athletitics, but also in academics. this just shows how well rounded carroll is.

How about spelling? ;)

[dragons08]

Which is the reason I think 98% of people move-in as well. The type of parents who live in Southlake, unlike some other name-less districts, realize that academics are the most assured way of success. They don't move their kids into the district in the hopes of their son getting noticed on the football team and then making a living for himself in the NFL...they move them there because the academic reputation is superb, top-to-bottom.

Exactly!

thats why my parents moved here, as well as many of my friends.

[dragons08]

How about spelling? ;)

i type to fast, butcher things up. my spelling on paper (hand written) isnt to bad.

[whs08]

Sorry not to be a jerk, but how does this relate to hs football? Just a ?

[dragons08]

Sorry not to be a jerk, but how does this relate to hs football? Just a ?

STUDENT athlete

[SLCDad]

Sorry not to be a jerk, but how does this relate to hs football? Just a ?

It's the off-season. Some of us are desperate. Besides, anything and everything about SLC is fair game on this board.


I'm thinking most football fans in Texas are conflicted. They want SLC to beat MNW for Texas pride. However, they'd love to see MNW crush SLC so the SLC fans would "shut up".:D :D

[SLC93]

And there is the #1 reason my wife and I live here...

~DnM

Couldn't be, makes too much sense.;)

[RedRage00]

Sorry not to be a jerk, but how does this relate to hs football? Just a ?


Yeah, this topic should be in the YARD forum :D

[RedRage00]

i type to fast, butcher things up. my spelling on paper (hand written) isnt to bad.

I know, I'm just giving you a hard time.

RR

[whs08]

STUDENT athlete

That still dosent answer my ? Were is there ever a mention of STUDENT ATHLETE?

[dragons08]

That still dosent answer my ? Were is there ever a mention of STUDENT ATHLETE?

i dont know how it is over at westlake, but to take part in anything extracurricular, you have to maintain your grades. thus student coming first.

[whs08]

[QUOTE=SLCDad;523132]It's the off-season. Some of us are desperate. Besides, anything and everything about SLC is fair game on this board.


Um not really, most high schools have started practices, there fore it's not really the off-season. The first pre season game for the NFL is this Sunday. I just think this thread would have been better placed in the yard IMHO!:cool:

[Phoenixrising05]

That still dosent answer my ? Were is there ever a mention of STUDENT ATHLETE?

also read as: I'm bitter because this thread proves that once again Southlake is better at something than Westlake and i'm a sore loser :cool:

[whs08]

i dont know how it is over at westlake, but to take part in anything extracurricular, you have to maintain your grades. thus student coming first.

Well yeah grades do come first at Westlake, before football.

[katyfan52]

It's the off-season. Some of us are desperate. Besides, anything and everything about SLC is fair game on this board.


I'm thinking most football fans in Texas are conflicted. They want SLC to beat MNW for Texas pride. However, they'd love to see MNW crush SLC so the SLC fans would "shut up".:D :D
Not me. Texas pride wins out. :) Is there some other way to get you guys to shut up?? :D

[whs08]

also read as: I'm bitter because this thread proves that once again Southlake is better at something than Westlake and i'm a sore loser :cool:

what the hell, Westlake has been recognized in news week in the top 100 academically since 03.

[Phoenixrising05]

Not me. Texas pride wins out. :) Is there some other way to get you guys to shut up?? :D

haha Good call...I wouldn't "mind" losing to Trinity since they're a good Texas team...but I couldn't handle another championship game loss to the Tigers :D

[dragonsdaddy]

[QUOTE=SLCDad;523132]It's the off-season. Some of us are desperate. Besides, anything and everything about SLC is fair game on this board.


Um not really, most high schools have started practices, there fore it's not really the off-season. The first pre season game for the NFL is this Sunday. I just think this thread would have been better placed in the yard IMHO!:cool:

most 5a schools have not started, so technically it is still the off-season. for all hs in texas, you are definitely correct.

[dragonsdaddy]

what the hell, Westlake has been recognized in news week in the top 100 academically since 03.

i wouldn't be so quick to brag about a newsweek recognition. they aren't universally esteemed for their objectivity.

[whs08]

i wouldn't be so quick to brag about a newsweek recognition. they aren't universally esteemed for their objectivity.

Whatever dude, you can have your opinion about newsweek, and I'll have mine.

[ktCarl]

i type to fast, butcher things up. my spelling on paper (hand written) isnt to bad.



Slow down!!!! :D

[whs08]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18757087/site/newsweek/

This is were I end my part of this discussion. :cool:

[dragonsdaddy]

Whatever dude, you can have your opinion about newsweek, and I'll have mine.

my point was, that westlake and eanes is a terrific school and system and don't need some ny nerds unknowledgeable opinion to prove it.

[implacable44]

my point was, that westlake and eanes is a terrific school and system and don't need some ny nerds unknowledgeable opinion to prove it.

This "statistic" just like any other is open to debate and easily manipulated. Is it really the school and the teachers or is it the quality of the people in the district? Is it the education they receive at home and in life from succesful parents or the books they read in class? I mean - say you take the students from a school like COnverse Judson and swap them out with the kids at SLC for a whole year -- or just swap the teachers out -- which school would test better? Would those teachers be able to elevate those students ?

Is it character of the individual that is reflected or the school system that benefits from the people living there? does it really mean that SLC is the better school with better teachers ?

[dragonsdaddy]

This "statistic" just like any other is open to debate and easily manipulated. Is it really the school and the teachers or is it the quality of the people in the district? Is it the education they receive at home and in life from succesful parents or the books they read in class? I mean - say you take the students from a school like COnverse Judson and swap them out with the kids at SLC for a whole year -- or just swap the teachers out -- which school would test better? Would those teachers be able to elevate those students ?

Is it character of the individual that is reflected or the school system that benefits from the people living there? does it really mean that SLC is the better school with better teachers ?

i don't know the unknowable, but i'd be willing to bet that my property taxes just went up another 5% based on this report.

[implacable44]

i don't know the unknowable, but i'd be willing to bet that my property taxes just went up another 5% based on this report.

All of it heading to Austin -- long live Robin Hood.

[SLCDad]

Is there some other way to get you guys to shut up?? :D

Of course. There have been 80 opportunities since 2002 and there will be at least 9 more this year.

[SLC93]

i don't know the unknowable, but i'd be willing to bet that my property taxes just went up another 5% based on this report.

That would :D if it wasn't true:cry ;)

[twcpfan1]

Of course. There have been 80 opportunities since 2002 and there will be at least 9 more this year.

Good thing you guys got out of that 4A gauntlet. Highland Park owned you guys in everything. They were the ones who wore the 'your dad works for my dad' t shirts back then. :D

[CCBoy]

Congrats to SLC and all the other schools on your achievements. :)

[dragonsdaddy]

Good thing you guys got out of that 4A gauntlet. Highland Park owned you guys in everything. They were the ones who wore the 'your dad works for my dad' t shirts back then. :D

that would be true only in football games that didn't matter. in the only meeting between the 2 where the loser went home, the skirted ones were crying in their whiskeys shortly after the final gun.

and in the lone star cup, nothing could be further from the truth as we had to go away so they could return to dominance( we won it back to back-00 and 01)

[SLCDad]

Good thing you guys got out of that 4A gauntlet. Highland Park owned you guys in everything. They were the ones who wore the 'your dad works for my dad' t shirts back then. :D

At first . . . yes. However, the last couple of years SLC owned them.

Highland Park was glad to see SLC move up in the Lone Star Cup. Highland Park was used to winning every year until SLC won in both 2000 and 2001 and set all-time points records both years. (The records still stand). After SLC moved up, Highland Park has been winning the cup every year since.

[twcpfan1]

Oh well. So much for my effort to make Carroll look like they actually lose to somebody. :( :D

I'll just say 2003 :D

[78 Spartan]

Not to diminish the achievement of getting an exemplary rating, but it's definitely skewed towards schools with few economically disadvantaged kids.

For the sake of argument, let's say we have two high schools, let's call them Westside High and Eastside High. And here's what you know about them:

Westside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 9.2, and four years later graduated 96% of them at an average academic level of 12.9.

Eastside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 7.1, and four years later graduated 82% of them at an average academic level of 11.8.

We know without doing a lot of math that Westside High is going to be rated exemplary and Eastside High is going to be rated acceptable at best.

But which school did the better job teaching? I think it's pretty clear that Eastside High did a far better job with what they had. Their average student progressed 4.7 grades during four years, while Westside's average student progressed 3.7 grades during four years.

To paraphrase Ann Richards, so many of us were lucky enough to be born on third base, but it doesn't mean we hit a triple. The measure of success is not how high you stand on the mountain, but rather how many feet you were able to climb. We don't all start at the foot of the mountain and we need to remember that.

[dragonsdaddy]

Not to diminish the achievement of getting an exemplary rating, but it's definitely skewed towards schools with few economically disadvantaged kids.

For the sake of argument, let's say we have two high schools, let's call them Westside High and Eastside High. And here's what you know about them:

Westside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 9.2, and four years later graduated 96% of them at an average academic level of 12.9.

Eastside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 7.1, and four years later graduated 82% of them at an average academic level of 11.8.

We know without doing a lot of math that Westside High is going to be rated exemplary and Eastside High is going to be rated acceptable at best.

But which school did the better job teaching? I think it's pretty clear that Eastside High did a far better job with what they had. Their average student progressed 4.7 grades during four years, while Westside's average student progressed 3.7 grades during four years.

To paraphrase Ann Richards, so many of us were lucky enough to be born on third base, but it doesn't mean we hit a triple. The measure of success is not how high you stand on the mountain, but rather how many feet you were able to climb. We don't all start at the foot of the mountain and we need to remember that.

i remember when grandma richards made some political hay over an opponents unfortunate utterance of a crude joke concerning ****. she was either lucky, or protected by the media from making the same mistake, because she was a classic. i bet she could tell some awesome campfire jokes, and old fashioned homilies.

oh, by the way, i like your thinking.

[katyfan52]

Not to diminish the achievement of getting an exemplary rating, but it's definitely skewed towards schools with few economically disadvantaged kids.

For the sake of argument, let's say we have two high schools, let's call them Westside High and Eastside High. And here's what you know about them:

Westside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 9.2, and four years later graduated 96% of them at an average academic level of 12.9.

Eastside High takes in kids who at the end of 8th grade achieved at an average academic level of 7.1, and four years later graduated 82% of them at an average academic level of 11.8.

We know without doing a lot of math that Westside High is going to be rated exemplary and Eastside High is going to be rated acceptable at best.

But which school did the better job teaching? I think it's pretty clear that Eastside High did a far better job with what they had. Their average student progressed 4.7 grades during four years, while Westside's average student progressed 3.7 grades during four years.

To paraphrase Ann Richards, so many of us were lucky enough to be born on third base, but it doesn't mean we hit a triple. The measure of success is not how high you stand on the mountain, but rather how many feet you were able to climb. We don't all start at the foot of the mountain and we need to remember that.
Spartan, that was downright eloquent, and spot on. (Especially the Richards quote.) Thanks. :cool:

[78 Spartan]

i remember when grandma richards made some political hay over an opponents unfortunate utterance of a crude joke concerning ****. she was either lucky, or protected by the media from making the same mistake, because she was a classic. i bet she could tell some awesome campfire jokes, and old fashioned homilies.

Yep, Ann Richards was a one-of-a-kind person. What made her special is that even those of us who disagreed with her politically (I was in that group) were pretty dang proud to call her a Texan. She had a larger set of juevos than any of us, and she was never intimidated by men in a state that was and is still pretty much dominated by good old boys.

[78 Spartan]

Spartan, that was downright eloquent, and spot on.

The data is there to measure schools not on the exiting performance of the kids but rather on the delta between entering and exiting. It could be done. I don't know why this concept hasn't been tried. I think it might result in a somewhat different allocation of accolades (and maybe even state money).

[SLCDad]

Think about it . . . . the ratings are a measure of the BOTTOM performers in each district. The ratings are inversely related to the number of kids who fail the tests. They are NOT a measure of overall academic achievement.

When SLC gets an exemplary rating it just means that there aren't that many kids who failed the tests. That's not surprising.

[FootballCrazy727]

These rankings are flawed and stupid. In the old system a school was rated on how well the school did overall. Now a days its based on how good each ethnicty did. If all the white and black kids scored high enough but the hispanic group average score wasnt high enough than the school doesnt get the exemplary rating. This is what took most GCISD schools down.
We asked one of our teachers one day bout this and he told us our schools (Grapevine) TAKS scores are better than they were back in the exemplary days, but not all ethnicties reach the benchmark so we dont get the rating.

[DrEdward]

These rankings are flawed and stupid. In the old system a school was rated on how well the school did overall. Now a days its based on how good each ethnicty did. If all the white and black kids scored high enough but the hispanic group average score wasnt high enough than the school doesnt get the exemplary rating. This is what took most GCISD schools down.
We asked one of our teachers one day bout this and he told us our schools (Grapevine) TAKS scores are better than they were back in the exemplary days, but not all ethnicties reach the benchmark so we dont get the rating.

But the same thing is true for every school and every district. Further, the passing rates of the sub-groups have always been a factor in assigning TEA's ratings. The rankings are largely a measure of how each demographic cohort in a school has done on the tests. In that aspect, it is a neutral ranking mechanism across schools and across districts. Now one may well quibble about the standards that have been set (and I would agree), but the standard applied is consistent.

[rantanamo]

Wealth and socioeconomics FTW again.

[DiamondJ2]

This "statistic" just like any other is open to debate and easily manipulated. Is it really the school and the teachers or is it the quality of the people in the district? Is it the education they receive at home and in life from succesful parents or the books they read in class? I mean - say you take the students from a school like COnverse Judson and swap them out with the kids at SLC for a whole year -- or just swap the teachers out -- which school would test better? Would those teachers be able to elevate those students ?

Is it character of the individual that is reflected or the school system that benefits from the people living there? does it really mean that SLC is the better school with better teachers ?

Excellent implacable. I've always said swap the faculty from Reagan or Smithson Valley with the faculty from Sam Houston or Memorial or Kennedy and let's see what happens to the scores. (Anyway, that is outstanding for SLC)

[Sakatha]

These rankings are flawed and stupid. In the old system a school was rated on how well the school did overall. Now a days its based on how good each ethnicty did. If all the white and black kids scored high enough but the hispanic group average score wasnt high enough than the school doesnt get the exemplary rating. This is what took most GCISD schools down.
We asked one of our teachers one day bout this and he told us our schools (Grapevine) TAKS scores are better than they were back in the exemplary days, but not all ethnicties reach the benchmark so we dont get the rating.

Which is why I believe the national rankings(which are typically just AP scores) are crap. They are only scores taken from a certain scope of students, and not the student body as a whole...

~DnM

[twcpfan1]

Think about it . . . . the ratings are a measure of the BOTTOM performers in each district. The ratings are inversely related to the number of kids who fail the tests. They are NOT a measure of overall academic achievement.

When SLC gets an exemplary rating it just means that there aren't that many kids who failed the tests. That's not surprising.

We are talking about a small one high school district covering an area of only one particular demographic, as opposed to one like Conroe ISD with 5 high schools and several varying ethnic and economic backgrounds. If the 2 Woodlands High Schools were to take only Woodlands residents, like their exemplary rated elementary schools do, then one would have to assume that the exemplary ratings would carry forward. You're right. One would not expect too many at Carroll ISD to fail the tests.

[whyzat]

While I admit to being a relic, I never understood why the traditional standards for the measurement of academic performance were abandoned in the first place. They evidently had worked well enough for several hundred years. Some purist are rightly concerned that relative standards are actually no standards at all. If they are right, the current system works against the long term best interests of the very groups it was designed to benefit. Hardly the desired outcome.

[wargograw]

also read as: I'm bitter because this thread proves that once again Southlake is better at something than Westlake and i'm a sore loser :cool:

youre just mad cuz in that newsweek action you guys are behind like 3 aisd schools, trinity, and grapevine.

youre 440 and were 93

[dragonsdaddy]

youre just mad cuz in that newsweek action you guys are behind like 3 aisd schools, trinity, and grapevine.

youre 440 and were 93

im just mad cuz ive been wasting my time with ''''s all this time.

[Sakatha]

youre just mad cuz in that newsweek action you guys are behind like 3 aisd schools, trinity, and grapevine.

youre 440 and were 93

As I said before... Any ratings based SOLELY on AP scores are complete trash. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe those are.

Here, let me take a select group of kids, test them and ONLY them, and we'll base the entire school's ranking according to that. I have 3 teachers in my family. They all admit that their schools have gone so far as to SEND KIDS HOME on test days so their scores don't drag down the school.....

~DnM

[Sakatha]

Here...

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/index.php?p=812

~DnM

[whs08]

youre just mad cuz in that newsweek action you guys are behind like 3 aisd schools, trinity, and grapevine.

youre 440 and were 93

Exactly!

[whs08]

Here...

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/index.php?p=812

~DnM

:D Thats too funny. It's not mandatory to take AP's here, and yes are students are completely ready for those exams.

[Sakatha]

:D Thats too funny. It's not mandatory to take AP's here, and yes are students are completely ready for those exams.

Dude, that's the whole point... You can hand pick who takes the tests..... MAKE SURE OF THE RESULTS, basically... It's total trash.

~DnM

[pied]

Does anyone know where the Jesuits and other privates fall in here?

[DrEdward]

Does anyone know where the Jesuits and other privates fall in here?

Private schools don't take such tests and are not, therefore, included in the TEA rankings. I am sure that the Jesuit schools would do very well, if they were included.

[pied]

Private schools don't take such tests and are not, therefore, included in the TEA rankings. I am sure that the Jesuit schools would do very well, if they were included.

I thought that might be the case.

I imagine those schools probably would score well. It would be interesting to see. I wonder if any of the private school guys(I will be one kind of later this month) can shed any light.

Also curious. I have seen several Southlak posters comment that a reason they moved was to take advantage of the school. Curious if any thought of remaining where they were and sending the kids to a private school.

Anyone?

[GBMonster76]

If anyone thinks that academics are more important than football in Texas... well then... you need to see a good head doc.

[pied]

If anyone thinks that academics are more important than football in Texas... well then... you need to see a good head doc.

Not that I disagree with you totally(although I might), but how do you explain the academic success of inarguably the top football program in the state?

[Sakatha]

If anyone thinks that academics are more important than football in Texas... well then... you need to see a good head doc.

Just like any other place, it depends on WHERE in Texas... In my household, they damn sure are.

~DnM

[whs08]

If anyone thinks that academics are more important than football in Texas... well then... you need to see a good head doc.

academics first, football second!

[DrEdward]

If anyone thinks that academics are more important than football in Texas... well then... you need to see a good head doc.

I love high school football in Texas. However, there is no doubt that as much fun as the game is, the priority must be given to academics. Fortunately, the two can go hand-in-hand if the community wants them to do so and is willing to make the committment.

[drgnsbrth]

This "statistic" just like any other is open to debate and easily manipulated. Is it really the school and the teachers or is it the quality of the people in the district? Is it the education they receive at home and in life from succesful parents or the books they read in class? I mean - say you take the students from a school like COnverse Judson and swap them out with the kids at SLC for a whole year -- or just swap the teachers out -- which school would test better? Would those teachers be able to elevate those students ?

Is it character of the individual that is reflected or the school system that benefits from the people living there? does it really mean that SLC is the better school with better teachers ?

Not that I am a Hillary supporter, but I believe her book says it all, "It Takes a Village."

[DrEdward]

This "statistic" just like any other is open to debate and easily manipulated. Is it really the school and the teachers or is it the quality of the people in the district? Is it the education they receive at home and in life from succesful parents or the books they read in class? I mean - say you take the students from a school like COnverse Judson and swap them out with the kids at SLC for a whole year -- or just swap the teachers out -- which school would test better? Would those teachers be able to elevate those students ?

Is it character of the individual that is reflected or the school system that benefits from the people living there? does it really mean that SLC is the better school with better teachers ?

Why do you think these things are mutually exclusive? I believe that the schools are a reflection of the communitiites they serve, at least over time. That is, if a community places a priority on education, then over time, that will be reflected in its schools. Likewise, good schools can effect the make-up of the community, as people discover the school's qualities. Carroll is blessed with students and parents who do care about education and that is reflected in the schools in the district. Other districts also share this characteristic.

[twcpfan1]

Why do you think these things are mutually exclusive? I believe that the schools are a reflection of the communitiites they serve, at least over time. That is, if a community places a priority on education, then over time, that will be reflected in its schools. Likewise, good schools can effect the make-up of the community, as people discover the school's qualities. Carroll is blessed with students and parents who do care about education and that is reflected in the schools in the district. Other districts also share this characteristic.

Affluent areas typically are able to devote more time and resources to making education a priority. There are low income districts however that may not be able to afford that luxury. For one thing the schools in low income areas are typically sub par in relation to more affluent districts. While I'm sure most people would love to provide a high class education for their children, the reality is there are a lot who aren't able to.

[dragonsdaddy]

Affluent areas typically are able to devote more time and resources to making education a priority. There are low income districts however that may not be able to afford that luxury. For one thing the schools in low income areas are typically sub par in relation to more affluent districts. While I'm sure most people would love to provide a high class education for their children, the reality is there are a lot who aren't able to.

there is a less than perfect relationship between funding and education success. priorities may need to be addressed rather than looking for excuses.

[twcpfan1]

there is a less than perfect relationship between funding and education success. priorities may need to be addressed rather than looking for excuses.

Not making excuses. Our school district is fine.

But I'm lucky I have a wife who can afford to schedule her job around her first priority which is spending time making sure the kids get the best education both in the classroom and in their extra curriculars.

I'm just trying to imagine what it would have been like if she had to have my work schedule. Because there are quite a few families in Texas where both parents can't be there to oversee schoolwork let alone afford extra curriculars. Couple that with not being able to afford to move to areas where the schools are better. Man, it's tough.

[DiamondJ2]

Academics should come before extracurricular activities. I'd wager that more students involved with extracurricular activities, be it athletics, ROTC, band, Ag, etc. graduation rate is higher than those not involved with extracurricular activities. It may take a "village", but the village is made up of individual families. The first teachers are the parents.

[LoneRocket]

These rankings are flawed and stupid. In the old system a school was rated on how well the school did overall. Now a days its based on how good each ethnicty did. If all the white and black kids scored high enough but the hispanic group average score wasnt high enough than the school doesnt get the exemplary rating. This is what took most GCISD schools down.
We asked one of our teachers one day bout this and he told us our schools (Grapevine) TAKS scores are better than they were back in the exemplary days, but not all ethnicties reach the benchmark so we dont get the rating.

The breakdown by ethnic groups was because certain schools had a history of not educating minorities on their campuses vs. their white counterparts. Some schools would even stick minorities in special education or remedial classes even though some did not belong in those classes. That is why the ethnic breakdown.

[LoneRocket]

If a juvenile justice facility or a court ordered substance abuse facility falls within the boundaries of a school district there is a 100 percent chance the district will not be rate exemplary or recognized. Even though there is a 98 percent chance district will never see those kids who are in jail or in a facility if they fail TAKS (taking the test in jail or the facility) or dropout (escape or does not return to school in the town they came from) if goes against the school district whose boundaries it falls in.

[LoneRocket]

Academics should come before extracurricular activities. I'd wager that more students involved with extracurricular activities, be it athletics, ROTC, band, Ag, etc. graduation rate is higher than those not involved with extracurricular activities. It may take a "village", but the village is made up of individual families. The first teachers are the parents.

If there are a high number of BIL\ESL students in a school district it will be very hard for the district to be rated exemplary or recognized.

[Drake]

After reading yet another thread created to remind everyone just how perfect Southlake is, the only conclusion one can reach is that there is no more perfect community of humans in the world than those that make up Southlake.

Of course if you consider all creatures, ants and bees might be close. This in and of itself is truly remarkable because compared to Southlake, neither anthills or beehives have nearly as many drones! :D

[Humblefied]

If there are a high number of BIL\ESL students in a school district it will be very hard for the district to be rated exemplary or recognized.

Humble High school is starting to have a problem with that. Alot of Hispanics are starting to move into the area and I was an aide for a principal. Just about every student needed a translator. It was quite sad to see my school going down like it is.

[LoneRocket]

Humble High school is starting to have a problem with that. Alot of Hispanics are starting to move into the area and I was an aide for a principal. Just about every student needed a translator. It was quite sad to see my school going down like it is.

They have to take TAKS even if some of them are new to the country and even if they never had a formal education until now.

[Humblefied]

They have to take TAKS even if some of them are new to the country and even if they never had a formal education until now.

Yeah and that just kills the scores for Humble or any school that is having that kind of income. It's amazing to see the ethniticity charts of Humble and how they have changed over the past couple of years. Not just one way either, but like three different ways.

[Drake]

Why does a school's rating matter anyway? If a student studies and learns, does well on his grades and SATs, does it really matter to that person's future how his/her school is rated?

[t00 playa]

how about thinking outside of your little 3 school district with how many students that are economically disadvantaged? with how many students that qualify for free and reduced lunch?....... SL does not have to deal with public education issues that other districts have to deal with.. no exuses here... the starting line for many students is not the same starting point for SL students....so depends on how you define "education success"... and for those who moved to SL for the educational aspect.... id say that you excessively over paid for a public education.... where as you could have just been good teachers at home like many other families in lower income areas that demand the same academic expectations for thier kids as you all do..and have the same results as your kids if not even better results..... but instead.. i guess you feel that you cant handle it on your own....or feel that your child wouldnt be able do as well if not for being in SL.... its all about academic expectations coming from the home.... no matter where you are.... my parents arent wealthy... i grew up in an area where the average house is probably only worth about 75k..... and the public schools i attended are not super institutions on paper... academically acceptable would probably have been the rating when i went there as well.....didnt deter me from a good education in college.... but my point is.... you are exclusive members of a community where money is no object.... or lack of resources in unheard of......like competing with an all star team and comparing it against everyone else who is not a part of a group like that..... but congrats on the ratings... thats always a good thing and im sure the kids of SL will continue to do extremely well....

[LoneRocket]

Why does a school's rating matter anyway? If a student studies and learns, does well on his grades and SATs, does it really matter to that person's future how his/her school is rated?

Other than the educational aspect it matters because TEA can take over or shutdown a school.

[Drake]

Other than the educational aspect it matters because TEA can take over or shutdown a school.Aside from the TEA, are you claiming that the same student can learn more in an "exemplary" school than he could in an "acceptable" one?

[LoneRocket]

Aside from the TEA, are you claiming that the same student can learn more in an "exemplary" school than he could in an "acceptable" one?

IMO it depends on the student and parent expectations and their involvement when it comes to education. You can throw in variables such as are there books for the student to take home, are there adequate labs and equipment at the school and does the student have learning challenges. Does the student have a unique family situation, there are so many variables to just say trade places.

[Drake]

IMO it depends on the student and parent expectations and their involvement when it comes to education.I agree. So who gives a chit if you get to put "Exemplary" on your billboard outside? LOL

You want to really be "exemplary" then tell us about the Katrina victims your school took in, or immigrants you're using resources to help educate, or the number of young men from your community serving the country in Iraq... Who cares if you exclude yourself from the world and ignore it's problems so you'll have an advantage on testing or in the "Lonestar Cup"... Laughable man!

[Humblefied]

how about thinking outside of your little 3 school district with how many students that are economically disadvantaged? with how many students that qualify for free and reduced lunch?....... SL does not have to deal with public education issues that other districts have to deal with.. no exuses here... the starting line for many students is not the same starting point for SL students....so depends on how you define "education success"... and for those who moved to SL for the educational aspect.... id say that you excessively over paid for a public education.... where as you could have just been good teachers at home like many other families in lower income areas that demand the same academic expectations for thier kids as you all do..and have the same results as your kids if not even better results..... but instead.. i guess you feel that you cant handle it on your own....or feel that your child wouldnt be able do as well if not for being in SL.... its all about academic expectations coming from the home.... no matter where you are.... my parents arent wealthy... i grew up in an area where the average house is probably only worth about 75k..... and the public schools i attended are not super institutions on paper... academically acceptable would probably have been the rating when i went there as well.....didnt deter me from a good education in college.... but my point is.... you are exclusive members of a community where money is no object.... or lack of resources in unheard of......like competing with an all star team and comparing it against everyone else who is not a part of a group like that..... but congrats on the ratings... thats always a good thing and im sure the kids of SL will continue to do extremely well....

Preach it!!!!

[Humblefied]

IMO it depends on the student and parent expectations and their involvement when it comes to education. You can throw in variables such as are there books for the student to take home, are there adequate labs and equipment at the school. Does the student have a unique family situation, there are so many variables to just say trade places.

Another big thing is the money that goes into the school district. I bet SLC gets a lot of money from the taxes of the area since it is a more financially inclined area.

[LoneRocket]

Another big thing is the money that goes into the school district. I bet SLC gets a lot of money from the taxes of the area since it is a more financially inclined area.

I think you have to look at disposable income for example if a school has a high number of students that need certain services they are going to put more money into a program to help them. The other school district that does not have that issue might put more enrichment programs such as fine arts. Remember SLC has to give away money as well as Dallas and Austin ISD to chapter 41, but the later two districts have more challenges.

[DrEdward]

Another big thing is the money that goes into the school district. I bet SLC gets a lot of money from the taxes of the area since it is a more financially inclined area.

Carroll ISD raises the overwhelming majority of its funding from property taxes just like every other school district in the state. Then, as the district is subject to Robin Hood payment obligations, it pays out somewhere between $15 million and $17 million annually to other, less fortunate districts. That equates to about $2000 per student in the district that Carroll sends to other districts. The result/intention of Robin Hood is that the expenditure per student is about the same across the state for ongoing operations.

[dragonsdaddy]

I agree. So who gives a chit if you get to put "Exemplary" on your billboard outside? LOL

You want to really be "exemplary" then tell us about the Katrina victims your school took in, or immigrants you're using resources to help educate, or the number of young men from your community serving the country in Iraq... Who cares if you exclude yourself from the world and ignore it's problems so you'll have an advantage on testing or in the "Lonestar Cup"... Laughable man!

this from a backer of a private school where none of these flaws occur, right. pot, meet kettle. please prove me wrong.

[whyzat]

"Of course if you consider all creatures, ants and bees might be close. This in and of itself is truly remarkable because compared to Southlake, neither anthills or beehives have nearly as many drones! :D"

Bee nice Drake....Remember the fate of the grasshopper which chided the ant. I drop in for a look around, and there you stand, stick in hand, poking the hive. How entirely out of character on your part. :p

[twcpfan1]

I agree. So who gives a chit if you get to put "Exemplary" on your billboard outside? LOL

You want to really be "exemplary" then tell us about the Katrina victims your school took in, or immigrants you're using resources to help educate, or the number of young men from your community serving the country in Iraq... Who cares if you exclude yourself from the world and ignore it's problems so you'll have an advantage on testing or in the "Lonestar Cup"... Laughable man!

It almost sounds like you expect them to apologize for trying to achieve excellence.

And let's be honest here. Would you really want your kid's school to take in a whole lot of Katrina victims, given the problems that have occurred in schools and neighborhoods that have taken them in? As far as Iraq goes, I've made my feelings clear on that issue.

If having my sense of compassion and patriotism questioned is the price I have to pay for the well being of my children, then so be it.

[Drake]

"Of course if you consider all creatures, ants and bees might be close. This in and of itself is truly remarkable because compared to Southlake, neither anthills or beehives have nearly as many drones! :D"

Bee nice Drake....Remember the fate of the grasshopper which chided the ant. I drop in for a look around, and there you stand, stick in hand, poking the hive. How entirely out of character on your part. :pGood point about the grasshopper! :)

[78 Spartan]

It almost sounds like you expect them to apologize for trying to achieve excellence.

And let's be honest here. Would you really want your kid's school to take in a whole lot of Katrina victims, given the problems that have occurred in schools and neighborhoods that have taken them in? As far as Iraq goes, I've made my feelings clear on that issue.

If having my sense of compassion and patriotism questioned is the price I have to pay for the well being of my children, then so be it.

Lookit, Southlake Carroll doesn't need to apologize for their success. I think Drake's point is merely that some of them need to carry it with a bit more humility. SLCDad isn't one of them -- if you re-read his opening post in this thread, he acknowledges SLC's built-in advantages on this rating.

If your school has the highest average SAT, or gets the most kids into private universities, or has the fewest kids fail their TAKS tests, well that's great. That's what a school with uber-rich white kids SHOULD be doing.

Drake's point is you don't go around congratulating yourself for doing what you SHOULD be doing. Middle America is sending kids off to fight (and die) in Iraq, is taking in disadvantaged kids from New Orleans post-Katrina, and is using scarce resources to educate illegal aliens. Those are also good things for our society -- somebody has to do those things -- even though they do not go into the definition of "exemplary" schools. Great point, Drake.

BTW, two of my best friends are SLC parents. The wife, instead of spending her day getting her nails done and taking tennis lessons, is volunteering at the USO and is organizing the send-off of tons of care packages to US soldiers in the Middle East. Don't think for a minute I don't believe there are lots of great human beings, great Americans, living in Southlake. There are.

My kids go to a predominantly white school with great AP programs, and which sends its best students to Ivy League schools also. However, because about 30% of the school is economically disadvantaged, we will never have a shot at being judged "exemplary". The ratings system is skewed in favor of small school districts with homogeneous populations of wealthy kids from two-parent families, that's just a FACT. Any large multi-high school districts, or schools with diverse populations who buck that fact and get a "recognized" rating are the ones doing the spectacular job IMHO. I'll tell you which high school is doing the best job in SBISD: it's not Memorial and it's not Stratford. It's Spring Woods. Despite its neighborhood turning into barrio over the past 20 years, Spring Woods has consistently performed well academically and in extracurriculars, and they obviously don't have many kids with all the advantages in the world. KUDOS TO THEM.

Here's another burr under my saddle: why aren't we insisting that our high school kids get jobs and work in the summer? It seems that very few Stratford kids have summer jobs -- most of them seem to be spending the summer in "camps". Stratford kids aren't flipping burgers, or waiting on tables, or mowing yards or building fences like they once did. A very bad sign for the future, I think. Parents who don't teach their kids to work shouldn't be surprised when they are still living under your roof at age 27.

[Drake]

It almost sounds like you expect them to apologize for trying to achieve excellence.

And let's be honest here. Would you really want your kid's school to take in a whole lot of Katrina victims, given the problems that have occurred in schools and neighborhoods that have taken them in? As far as Iraq goes, I've made my feelings clear on that issue.

If having my sense of compassion and patriotism questioned is the price I have to pay for the well being of my children, then so be it.You missed my entire point, CD...

Southlake has segregated itself from typical society and many of its ills using money. They freely admit that they have very little, if any, apartments or lower income housing and city planners are forbidden from permitting them.

As a result, their schools start out with with the best and the brightest, and the element that brings many other schools down are nowhere to be found in Southlake.

No one should apologize for that. I get it. As a parent I know I want the best education and safest environment for my kids. I wish I could afford to live in Southlake. But if I did, I think I'd be aware of why things are the way they are and refrain from using the "E" word to rub everyone else's nose in it every chance I got... :)

[dragonsdaddy]

You missed my entire point, CD...

Southlake has segregated itself from typical society and many of its ills using money. They freely admit that they have very little, if any, apartments or lower income housing and city planners are forbidden from permitting them.

As a result, their schools start out with with the best and the brightest, and the element that brings many other schools down are nowhere to be found in Southlake.

No one should apologize for that. I get it. As a parent I know I want the best education and safest environment for my kids. I wish I could afford to live in Southlake. But if I did, I think I'd be aware of why things are the way they are and refrain from using the "E" word to rub everyone else's nose in it every chance I got... :)
actually, what slcdad meant to convey, if i may be so bold, is that slc was and should have been embarrassed for ever being less than exemplary. the district worked hard to erase this stigma(getting 3 or 4 minority kids to do better in one subject, if i remember correctly, so it really wasn't much of a turn around as it turns out). some one smarter than me once said " of whom much is given, much is expected".

[Drake]

actually, what slcdad meant to convey, if i may be so bold, is that slc was and should have been embarrassed for ever being less than exemplary. the district worked hard to erase this stigma(getting 3 or 4 minority kids to do better in one subject, if i remember correctly, so it really wasn't much of a turn around as it turns out).<Eddie Murphy as the barber in Coming to America> "Everytime there's a problem in Southlake, some white guy brings up the 3 or 4 minority kids they have!" :)

[dragonsdaddy]

<Eddie Murphy as the barber in Coming to America> "Everytime there's a problem in Southlake, some white guy brings up the 3 or 4 minority kids they have!" :)

not a problem, just a pesky fact. it is kind of a shame that the numbers were as they were last year when the figures came out, and the difference between exemplary and recognized could be broken down to 3 or 4 minority kids in one school, i think, who didn't pass one section of the taks. i'm betting those kids got some focused attention and tutoring.

[TrojanFan4Life]

not a problem, just a pesky fact. it is kind of a shame that the numbers were as they were last year when the figures came out, and the difference between exemplary and recognized could be broken down to 3 or 4 minority kids in one school, i think, who didn't pass one section of the taks. i'm betting those kids got some focused attention and tutoring.

Not to be disrespectful or anything - but the minority kids in Carroll's district don't matter. There must be a certain percentage of the minority group before TEA considers them relevant. I can't remember off hand what it is (as a teacher I should probably remember - but it isn't relevant to my school because EVERYONE counts due to our diversity). However, I think it is around 10-15% of the population of the school must be in that group. At the Carroll high schools - there were 10 African Americans and 41 Hispanics and 6 Economically Disadvantaged Students. They did not have enough test on Special Education students to even put them on the report - that could also mean none just as well.

I doubt that Carroll gave the minorities focused attention and tutoring for the TAKS test. They may give students focused attention and tutoring in order to pass a class.

In addition, Carroll may have a hard time meeting the AYP (Average Yearly Progress) because there weren't gains in your status - as a matter of fact they dropped a point in a couple of areas.

The students at Carroll and MANY other schools in the state start with an advantage. These advantages are not always money - they are parents with an education and involved parents, parents with enough extra money to take them to the zoo, museums, and vacations. Notice that most of what a child needs to be successful starts at HOME!!!!! Parents are a child's first teacher. When students arrive at school with these things they are a step ahead of those that can't or don't have these things. We are middle class and my kids start with that same advantage.

The rest of the schools have problems that must be addressed. I am very proud to work in HEBISD - an academically acceptable district. WE too have to send money to other districts at around 6 million a year (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). My school is a Title 1 school meaning high economic disadvantaged numbers. We tutor before and after school beginning in September and starting in kindergarten just to get our kids ON grade level. Their parents love them and expect them to do well but don't have the education to help, the time to be there and in some cases the language barrier makes it difficult. They work several jobs and can't be home. So I not only have my two at home (who attend an exemplary school in the district), I am the mother to 22 students in my classroom.

I LOVE my job and I work very hard to make sure EVERY student is successful and my grade isn't even a TAKS grade!

Carroll should be proud of the exemplary status but there are MANY MANY schools out there that aren't exemplary but have more reasons to brag because what they accomplished was much more difficult even though it didn't quite reach the ultimate goal of exemplary.

[twcpfan1]

You missed my entire point, CD...

Southlake has segregated itself from typical society and many of its ills using money. They freely admit that they have very little, if any, apartments or lower income housing and city planners are forbidden from permitting them.

As a result, their schools start out with with the best and the brightest, and the element that brings many other schools down are nowhere to be found in Southlake.

No one should apologize for that. I get it. As a parent I know I want the best education and safest environment for my kids. I wish I could afford to live in Southlake. But if I did, I think I'd be aware of why things are the way they are and refrain from using the "E" word to rub everyone else's nose in it every chance I got... :)

I did get your point. In an earlier post, I expressed a similar view to the last part of your post above. Just not quite as eloquently put. :D

However, I cannot blame a community if they wish to segregate itself from typical day to day existence everywhere else. Not a lot about it is terribly appealing.

[twcpfan1]

Lookit, Southlake Carroll doesn't need to apologize for their success. I think Drake's point is merely that some of them need to carry it with a bit more humility. SLCDad isn't one of them -- if you re-read his opening post in this thread, he acknowledges SLC's built-in advantages on this rating.

If your school has the highest average SAT, or gets the most kids into private universities, or has the fewest kids fail their TAKS tests, well that's great. That's what a school with uber-rich white kids SHOULD be doing.

Drake's point is you don't go around congratulating yourself for doing what you SHOULD be doing. Middle America is sending kids off to fight (and die) in Iraq, is taking in disadvantaged kids from New Orleans post-Katrina, and is using scarce resources to educate illegal aliens. Those are also good things for our society -- somebody has to do those things -- even though they do not go into the definition of "exemplary" schools. Great point, Drake.

BTW, two of my best friends are SLC parents. The wife, instead of spending her day getting her nails done and taking tennis lessons, is volunteering at the USO and is organizing the send-off of tons of care packages to US soldiers in the Middle East. Don't think for a minute I don't believe there are lots of great human beings, great Americans, living in Southlake. There are.

My kids go to a predominantly white school with great AP programs, and which sends its best students to Ivy League schools also. However, because about 30% of the school is economically disadvantaged, we will never have a shot at being judged "exemplary". The ratings system is skewed in favor of small school districts with homogeneous populations of wealthy kids from two-parent families, that's just a FACT. Any large multi-high school districts, or schools with diverse populations who buck that fact and get a "recognized" rating are the ones doing the spectacular job IMHO. I'll tell you which high school is doing the best job in SBISD: it's not Memorial and it's not Stratford. It's Spring Woods. Despite its neighborhood turning into barrio over the past 20 years, Spring Woods has consistently performed well academically and in extracurriculars, and they obviously don't have many kids with all the advantages in the world. KUDOS TO THEM.

Here's another burr under my saddle: why aren't we insisting that our high school kids get jobs and work in the summer? It seems that very few Stratford kids have summer jobs -- most of them seem to be spending the summer in "camps". Stratford kids aren't flipping burgers, or waiting on tables, or mowing yards or building fences like they once did. A very bad sign for the future, I think. Parents who don't teach their kids to work shouldn't be surprised when they are still living under your roof at age 27.

Again, the fact that kids in school districts like Carroll start at a decisive advantage, and that they should be aware of it, was made in an earlier post of mine. I was merely pointing out that they should not have to apologize to the rest of society for it.

[twcpfan1]

Not to be disrespectful or anything - but the minority kids in Carroll's district don't matter. There must be a certain percentage of the minority group before TEA considers them relevant. I can't remember off hand what it is (as a teacher I should probably remember - but it isn't relevant to my school because EVERYONE counts due to our diversity). However, I think it is around 10-15% of the population of the school must be in that group. At the Carroll high schools - there were 10 African Americans and 41 Hispanics and 6 Economically Disadvantaged Students. They did not have enough test on Special Education students to even put them on the report - that could also mean none just as well.

I doubt that Carroll gave the minorities focused attention and tutoring for the TAKS test. They may give students focused attention and tutoring in order to pass a class.

In addition, Carroll may have a hard time meeting the AYP (Average Yearly Progress) because there weren't gains in your status - as a matter of fact they dropped a point in a couple of areas.

The students at Carroll and MANY other schools in the state start with an advantage. These advantages are not always money - they are parents with an education and involved parents, parents with enough extra money to take them to the zoo, museums, and vacations. Notice that most of what a child needs to be successful starts at HOME!!!!! Parents are a child's first teacher. When students arrive at school with these things they are a step ahead of those that can't or don't have these things. We are middle class and my kids start with that same advantage.

The rest of the schools have problems that must be addressed. I am very proud to work in HEBISD - an academically acceptable district. WE too have to send money to other districts at around 6 million a year (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). My school is a Title 1 school meaning high economic disadvantaged numbers. We tutor before and after school beginning in September and starting in kindergarten just to get our kids ON grade level. Their parents love them and expect them to do well but don't have the education to help, the time to be there and in some cases the language barrier makes it difficult. They work several jobs and can't be home. So I not only have my two at home (who attend an exemplary school in the district), I am the mother to 22 students in my classroom.

I LOVE my job and I work very hard to make sure EVERY student is successful and my grade isn't even a TAKS grade!

Carroll should be proud of the exemplary status but there are MANY MANY schools out there that aren't exemplary but have more reasons to brag because what they accomplished was much more difficult even though it didn't quite reach the ultimate goal of exemplary.

Great post.

[DragonFan]

After reading yet another thread created to remind everyone just how perfect Southlake is, the only conclusion one can reach is that there is no more perfect community of humans in the world than those that make up Southlake.

Of course if you consider all creatures, ants and bees might be close. This in and of itself is truly remarkable because compared to Southlake, neither anthills or beehives have nearly as many drones! :D

Are you suggesting that Southlake might be Trulock? (Shreik)

[dragonsdaddy]

maybe the earlier quote about expectations is the real key. my wife, an educator at several levels has always said that kids always perform up/down to expectations. maybe we as parents and teachers are the biggest obstacle to the under-performing by not asking more of them. i know we here in southlake generally expect more of our kids than many think is possible. we certainly aren't the only group that does it, but our results pretty much speak for themselves. there are many behavioral studies that prove the power of expectations, both positive and negative.

[maxtor]

Sorry not to be a jerk, but how does this relate to hs football? Just a ?

One wonders why you would click on a thread titled "education first" if you just wanted to talk about football.

We could talk about Fort Worth North side High and how their defense will be this year. We could even talk about SLCs defense again. But the fact is is that there are a bunch of football message board fanatics like me that want to discuss ANYTHING until the season starts. We are desperate.

[SLCDad]

Not to be disrespectful or anything - but the minority kids in Carroll's district don't matter. There must be a certain percentage of the minority group before TEA considers them relevant. I can't remember off hand what it is (as a teacher I should probably remember - but it isn't relevant to my school because EVERYONE counts due to our diversity). However, I think it is around 10-15% of the population of the school must be in that group. At the Carroll high schools - there were 10 African Americans and 41 Hispanics and 6 Economically Disadvantaged Students. They did not have enough test on Special Education students to even put them on the report - that could also mean none just as well.

I doubt that Carroll gave the minorities focused attention and tutoring for the TAKS test. They may give students focused attention and tutoring in order to pass a class.

In addition, Carroll may have a hard time meeting the AYP (Average Yearly Progress) because there weren't gains in your status - as a matter of fact they dropped a point in a couple of areas.

The students at Carroll and MANY other schools in the state start with an advantage. These advantages are not always money - they are parents with an education and involved parents, parents with enough extra money to take them to the zoo, museums, and vacations. Notice that most of what a child needs to be successful starts at HOME!!!!! Parents are a child's first teacher. When students arrive at school with these things they are a step ahead of those that can't or don't have these things. We are middle class and my kids start with that same advantage.

The rest of the schools have problems that must be addressed. I am very proud to work in HEBISD - an academically acceptable district. WE too have to send money to other districts at around 6 million a year (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). My school is a Title 1 school meaning high economic disadvantaged numbers. We tutor before and after school beginning in September and starting in kindergarten just to get our kids ON grade level. Their parents love them and expect them to do well but don't have the education to help, the time to be there and in some cases the language barrier makes it difficult. They work several jobs and can't be home. So I not only have my two at home (who attend an exemplary school in the district), I am the mother to 22 students in my classroom.

I LOVE my job and I work very hard to make sure EVERY student is successful and my grade isn't even a TAKS grade!

Carroll should be proud of the exemplary status but there are MANY MANY schools out there that aren't exemplary but have more reasons to brag because what they accomplished was much more difficult even though it didn't quite reach the ultimate goal of exemplary.

You are right that there aren't very many minorities in Southlake. However there ARE all races in Southlake and there are economically disadvantaged students. Every group had over 90% passing every section of the test regardless of whether the scores counted or not.

I think the key to the success is Southlake goes right back to the parents and families. I don't recall the exact statistics but something like 96% of the households in Southlake are headed by two parents living together OR by an adult who has never been married. It all goes back to the parents in my opinion.

You sound like a great teacher. We all appreciate teachers like you very much.

Here are the SLC district results:

Reading: All groups 99% passing except Econ Disadvantaged where 98% passed.

Writing: All groups 99% passing except Hispanic at 98% and Econ Disadvantaged 94% passing.

Social Studies: All groups 99% passing except African American with 97% passing and Econ Disadvantaged with 90% passing.

Math passing rates: All students - 94%, African American - 94%, Hispanic - 93%, White - 96% and Economically Disadvantaged - 92%

Science passing rates: All students - 96%, African American - 97%, Hispanic - 94%, White - 96% and Economically Disadvantaged - 99%

[SLCDad]

Another big thing is the money that goes into the school district. I bet SLC gets a lot of money from the taxes of the area since it is a more financially inclined area.

Actually the operating budgets at CISD (per student) are slightly below the average of the other school districts in the area. Several years ago, CISD had critical financial problems and they had to make huge cuts across the board. The budget is much better now but they don't spend any more than the districts in the area.

[SLCDad]

Not that I am a Hillary supporter, but I believe her book says it all, "It Takes a Village."

I think that book should be re-titled to "It Takes A Federal Program to Raise a Child". That seems to more accurately reflect her philosophy.

[DrEdward]

Not to be disrespectful or anything - but the minority kids in Carroll's district don't matter. There must be a certain percentage of the minority group before TEA considers them relevant. I can't remember off hand what it is (as a teacher I should probably remember - but it isn't relevant to my school because EVERYONE counts due to our diversity). However, I think it is around 10-15% of the population of the school must be in that group. At the Carroll high schools - there were 10 African Americans and 41 Hispanics and 6 Economically Disadvantaged Students. They did not have enough test on Special Education students to even put them on the report - that could also mean none just as well.

I doubt that Carroll gave the minorities focused attention and tutoring for the TAKS test. They may give students focused attention and tutoring in order to pass a class.

In addition, Carroll may have a hard time meeting the AYP (Average Yearly Progress) because there weren't gains in your status - as a matter of fact they dropped a point in a couple of areas.

The students at Carroll and MANY other schools in the state start with an advantage. These advantages are not always money - they are parents with an education and involved parents, parents with enough extra money to take them to the zoo, museums, and vacations. Notice that most of what a child needs to be successful starts at HOME!!!!! Parents are a child's first teacher. When students arrive at school with these things they are a step ahead of those that can't or don't have these things. We are middle class and my kids start with that same advantage.

The rest of the schools have problems that must be addressed. I am very proud to work in HEBISD - an academically acceptable district. WE too have to send money to other districts at around 6 million a year (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). My school is a Title 1 school meaning high economic disadvantaged numbers. We tutor before and after school beginning in September and starting in kindergarten just to get our kids ON grade level. Their parents love them and expect them to do well but don't have the education to help, the time to be there and in some cases the language barrier makes it difficult. They work several jobs and can't be home. So I not only have my two at home (who attend an exemplary school in the district), I am the mother to 22 students in my classroom.

I LOVE my job and I work very hard to make sure EVERY student is successful and my grade isn't even a TAKS grade!

Carroll should be proud of the exemplary status but there are MANY MANY schools out there that aren't exemplary but have more reasons to brag because what they accomplished was much more difficult even though it didn't quite reach the ultimate goal of exemplary.

Carroll does have the sub-groups that count, just as Trinity does. I forget like you just what the critical mass is, but it is actually quite small and way less than a 10% standard. In fact, what held the district back in the past two years was the performance of one of those subgroups on one of the tested areas. Likewise our annual progress is fine, as the passing rates are sufficiently high.

I am quite proud of the students and teachers accomlishments in attaining the standard set by TEA for such recognition. But that does not imply that we look down on other schools and districts who don't have some of the advantages that we enjoy. That is not the case at all.

[SLCDad]

I agree. So who gives a chit if you get to put "Exemplary" on your billboard outside? LOL

You want to really be "exemplary" then tell us about the Katrina victims your school took in, or immigrants you're using resources to help educate, or the number of young men from your community serving the country in Iraq... Who cares if you exclude yourself from the world and ignore it's problems so you'll have an advantage on testing or in the "Lonestar Cup"... Laughable man!

What makes you think Southlake contributes less to the world's problems than other areas? My guess is that if you really looked at the total picture, you would find that Southlake does very well in this area.

[katyfan52]

Actually the operating budgets at CISD (per student) are slightly below the average of the other school districts in the area. Several years ago, CISD had critical financial problems and they had to make huge cuts across the board. The budget is much better now but they don't spend any more than the districts in the area.
I know within our district I have noticed differences in schools, and part of the explanation is the effect of the PTA and the fact that the more affluent areas have larger tallies on fund raising efforts, and more parents in a position to volunteer for programs within the school that benefit the students such as parent tutors etc. It would be interesting to see the tallies of parent/community donations to the schools in question as well as the tallies of volunteer hours. :)

[twcpfan1]

You are right that there aren't very many minorities in Southlake. However there ARE all races in Southlake and there are economically disadvantaged students. Every group had over 90% passing every section of the test regardless of whether the scores counted or not.

I think the key to the success is Southlake goes right back to the parents and families. I don't recall the exact statistics but something like 96% of the households in Southlake are headed by two parents living together OR by an adult who has never been married. It all goes back to the parents in my opinion. (Again, it's fair to say that there is a correlation between successful marriages and financial resources. There is also more parental involvement in a child's education in areas that are more affluent.)

You sound like a great teacher. We all appreciate teachers like you very much.

Here are the SLC district results:

Reading: All groups 99% passing except Econ Disadvantaged where 98% passed.

Writing: All groups 99% passing except Hispanic at 98% and Econ Disadvantaged 94% passing.

Social Studies: All groups 99% passing except African American with 97% passing and Econ Disadvantaged with 90% passing.

Math passing rates: All students - 94%, African American - 94%, Hispanic - 93%, White - 96% and Economically Disadvantaged - 92%

Science passing rates: All students - 96%, African American - 97%, Hispanic - 94%, White - 96% and Economically Disadvantaged - 99% With all due respect I think it would be easier to bring up the averages of minorities and economically disadvantaged in an area demographic where their numbers are so low

OK. I think everybody gets it. The Carroll kids are living up to expectation.

But like several posters have stated, it's the ones who start out with very little (through no choice of their own) and end up achieving so much are the ones who are more deserving of the accolades (sp) :)

[SLCDad]

I know within our district I have noticed differences in schools, and part of the explanation is the effect of the PTA and the fact that the more affluent areas have larger tallies on fund raising efforts, and more parents in a position to volunteer for programs within the school that benefit the students such as parent tutors etc. It would be interesting to see the tallies of parent/community donations to the schools in question as well as the tallies of volunteer hours. :)

Same is true at SLC. The parent booster groups are extremely involved and raise a ton of money for the "extras". Parents are very involed at SLC in pretty much every way.

[dragons08]

anytime something happens at school, there seems to always be parents involved.

for example band, they have a hand in EVERYTHING.

they organize our trips, band banquet, logistics to travel, our "refreshments", collection of money, making show we have neccesary equipment, they take care of uniforms, ordering things, running band store, helpind directors with tasks, charpones, they make sure we are all enjoying ourselves and having something we will remember. i know i am missing a ton of other stuff they do, but without thinking that alone pops in my head.

its amazing all the support parents give us. majority of us try and show respect back, by doing just the basics, please and thank you, helping them, etc. a lot of the kids are on "personal" levels with a lot of the parents. talk football with them, talk about anything just random stuff. its pretty cool to be part of something that is so huge, yet feels tight knit ya know?

[padcrasher]

I graduated from HEB schools, resided the last 14 years in the Grapevine-Colleyville ISD and have recently moved to Southlake. I can't tell you many HEB parents could not care less how their schools perform. Contrast this with Southlake parents who really get involved. People that value education seem to be well off. Hmm? Maybe there's a connection?

[dragons08]

Same is true at SLC. The parent booster groups are extremely involved and raise a ton of money for the "extras". Parents are very involed at SLC in pretty much every way.

there is a requested (pretty much required) donatation of 150 bucks for band per studnet per year (more is encouraged), so that rakes in A TON of money. factor in when we have band events a lot of stuff is donated from buissness, parents, etc. it allows the band to spend money on other things like instruments, they bought a projector screen for the band hall last year, etc

[mad_fan]

I don't get the title of the thread but that's neither here nor there...
If I had any confidence in anything done by federal, state or local officials (especially statistical) this might tell me something...
Beyond that, this thread is about SLC and properly placed on the forum...

PS You guys should send a little money to the State to help out the districts not doing so well according to the State...that would be a good investment...:rolleyes:

[twcpfan1]

there is a requested (pretty much required) donatation of 150 bucks for band per studnet per year (more is encouraged), so that rakes in A TON of money. factor in when we have band events a lot of stuff is donated from buissness, parents, etc. it allows the band to spend money on other things like instruments, they bought a projector screen for the band hall last year, etc

Wow. That's nothing. At College Park, it's 450.00 per band member that the student had to contribute (donate) last year.

[oldtig]

First off props to those of you who live/work/have children in SL. Enjoy your well earned accolades. As for the "scores" discussion- in order for a group to be scored there must be a critical mass for that number to be counted. Also, minorities/soc. economic status are not of any consequence related to success. I've seen the statistics by these groups and all I see in those statistics are low expectations by parents, lakodasical students, and complacent teachers. I've seen schools with few minorities perform poorly and schools full of hardships become inspired from the principal all the way down to the lowest student and kick some serious tail. The ratings are a report card, simply a snapshot of progress for that year. It is not inerrant or infallible but it is the best objective way to answer the question- are we doing our job? You can define the we as "village" and our job as preparing individuals for success in life.

So- in summary well done SL, if there are those who wish to complain or make excuses I suggest they become part of the solution: tutor and young person near you, become a teacher, or run for office.

[implacable44]

Not that I am a Hillary supporter, but I believe her book says it all, "It Takes a Village."

Please do not ever quote me or include my name - or any of my screen names -- with Hillary Clinton. Socilalism be damned. It will take a village to keep that woMAN out of the white house. But please -- refrain from putting my name with hers at anytime.

p.s. - please expand that list to include several other folks:
Kennedy, Kerry, Obama, Harry Reid, MR. dennis K, Pelosi, Chucky from NY, etc...

[implacable44]

Why do you think these things are mutually exclusive? I believe that the schools are a reflection of the communitiites they serve, at least over time. That is, if a community places a priority on education, then over time, that will be reflected in its schools. Likewise, good schools can effect the make-up of the community, as people discover the school's qualities. Carroll is blessed with students and parents who do care about education and that is reflected in the schools in the district. Other districts also share this characteristic.

I will ignore your colorful spelling and consider it a slip....very Freud-like.

It is possible that those things are mutually beneficial- especially in the case with Southlake. That is easy to say at Southlake - a town landlocked with 1 school district - restrictions on housin, strict land restrictions-- high taxes , etc... Designed to "control" the type of people living in the city. Like I said - lets ship em to Converse Judson for a year and bring the Judson kids up here and lets see what happens.

[dragonsdaddy]

I will ignore your colorful spelling and consider it a slip....very Freud-like.

It is possible that those things are mutually beneficial- especially in the case with Southlake. That is easy to say at Southlake - a town landlocked with 1 school district - restrictions on housin, strict land restrictions-- high taxes , etc... Designed to "control" the type of people living in the city. Like I said - lets ship em to Converse Judson for a year and bring the Judson kids up here and lets see what happens.

i doubt you would notice a huge change in the kids individual behavior/success, cause i assume you'd allow their parents to transfer too, and i think you have stated before that their role is important if not paramount in the education process. just swapping the kids while difficult logistically, also wouldn't change them much as it would take more than a year, imo to effect changes in behavior. plus, we'd need lots of portable buildings.

[t00 playa]

Not to be disrespectful or anything - but the minority kids in Carroll's district don't matter. There must be a certain percentage of the minority group before TEA considers them relevant. I can't remember off hand what it is (as a teacher I should probably remember - but it isn't relevant to my school because EVERYONE counts due to our diversity). However, I think it is around 10-15% of the population of the school must be in that group. At the Carroll high schools - there were 10 African Americans and 41 Hispanics and 6 Economically Disadvantaged Students. They did not have enough test on Special Education students to even put them on the report - that could also mean none just as well.

I doubt that Carroll gave the minorities focused attention and tutoring for the TAKS test. They may give students focused attention and tutoring in order to pass a class.

In addition, Carroll may have a hard time meeting the AYP (Average Yearly Progress) because there weren't gains in your status - as a matter of fact they dropped a point in a couple of areas.

The students at Carroll and MANY other schools in the state start with an advantage. These advantages are not always money - they are parents with an education and involved parents, parents with enough extra money to take them to the zoo, museums, and vacations. Notice that most of what a child needs to be successful starts at HOME!!!!! Parents are a child's first teacher. When students arrive at school with these things they are a step ahead of those that can't or don't have these things. We are middle class and my kids start with that same advantage.

The rest of the schools have problems that must be addressed. I am very proud to work in HEBISD - an academically acceptable district. WE too have to send money to other districts at around 6 million a year (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). My school is a Title 1 school meaning high economic disadvantaged numbers. We tutor before and after school beginning in September and starting in kindergarten just to get our kids ON grade level. Their parents love them and expect them to do well but don't have the education to help, the time to be there and in some cases the language barrier makes it difficult. They work several jobs and can't be home. So I not only have my two at home (who attend an exemplary school in the district), I am the mother to 22 students in my classroom.

I LOVE my job and I work very hard to make sure EVERY student is successful and my grade isn't even a TAKS grade!

Carroll should be proud of the exemplary status but there are MANY MANY schools out there that aren't exemplary but have more reasons to brag because what they accomplished was much more difficult even though it didn't quite reach the ultimate goal of exemplary.

reponses to the bold in order ...

1. relevant in regards to sub groups

2. as i said.. the starting line is not the same for all students and varies by school and district... thats just the way it is...

3. thats why i always say that the best comparison is apples to apples... its hard to compare SLC who may have 0% on free and reduced lunch to *ISD who has 75% of its kids eligible for free or reduced lunch....

4. keep up that attitude and every grade is really a TAKS grade.. assuming you are elementary you are preparing and laying down the foundation for them to do well when they get to the 3rd grade and up....

5. exactly!


good post.. and working in education as well... its funny to see how these threads twist and weave...many ppl on the outside looking in are way off.. and some are right on the money.... .. you make extremely good points... and keep up the good work!:eek:

[TrojanFan4Life]

reponses to the bold in order ...

1. relevant in regards to sub groups

2. as i said.. the starting line is not the same for all students and varies by school and district... thats just the way it is...

3. thats why i always say that the best comparison is apples to apples... its hard to compare SLC who may have 0% on free and reduced lunch to *ISD who has 75% of its kids eligible for free or reduced lunch....

4. keep up that attitude and every grade is really a TAKS grade.. assuming you are elementary you are preparing and laying down the foundation for them to do well when they get to the 3rd grade and up....

5. exactly!


good post.. and working in education as well... its funny to see how these threads twist and weave...many ppl on the outside looking in are way off.. and some are right on the money.... .. you make extremely good points... and keep up the good work!:eek:

Yes I was talking subgroups to count in the ratings by TEA - when you look at your schools individual scores an "X" is placed by the subgroups that were used to determine the rating by TEA. Carroll's only subgroup that counted was white.

Thank you - yes I am elementary (2nd grade)

There is a website called Just for the Kids or something like that - it allows you to compare apples to apples - they take schools with the same demographics and compare the results of the tests - we (educators) can use this to see where we need to improve and to see how well we are doing - you look to the schools at the top and they can be contacted to see what is working - the ones at the top are considered to be the standard to strive for - last year our school was recognized as being that standard in 3 areas - we were very pleased!

[NSMustangProud]

The Texas Education Agency just released it's 2007 Accountability Ratings. Here are the results:

Rating.............Number of Schools........%
Exemplary..................637.................7.9 %
Recognized..............2,345................29.1%
Acceptable..............4,102................50.9%
Unacceptable..............301.................3.7%
Not Rated..................676..................8.4%
Total.....................8,061.............100.0%

Southlake Carroll was the only 5A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 11 schools in the district were rated exemplary.

Highland Park was the only 4A district in the state to receive an exemplary rating for the district. All 7 schools in that district were rated exemplary.

There are many larger districts that include multiple high schools, many middle schools, etc. Obviously it's much harder for these larger districts to be rated exemplary across the board. Also, most students in SLC and HP have many advantages not the least of which is money.

Congrats to all the schools who did well or who improved from last year.

Out of curiosity.....how many special education students does SLC have in their district? Do they have good programs for these kiddos? How are the kids accepted in the district and in the town? I am a special education district specialist and was just wondering? I'm just curious to see if the district puts good money into their kids with special needs. Since this is an academic thread I thought I'd ask.

[DrEdward]

Out of curiosity.....how many special education students does SLC have in their district? Do they have good programs for these kiddos? How are the kids accepted in the district and in the town? I am a special education district specialist and was just wondering? I'm just curious to see if the district puts good money into their kids with special needs. Since this is an academic thread I thought I'd ask.

I know we have had some and Carroll obviously puts out the effort to see to their educational needs. There is a department within the administration dedicated to the education of special need students. As I recall from a board meeting a while ago, the district puts a disproportionate amount of funding to those kids, but, of course, that is not surprising. I assume every district does so, due to the nature of their educational requirements. So far as I am aware, the kids are quite well-accpeted by the student body as a whole and the community as well. I will have to check and see how many are currently enrolled and in what grades they are.

[dragonsdaddy]

I know we have had some and Carroll obviously puts out the effort to see to their educational needs. There is a department within the administration dedicated to the education of special need students. As I recall from a board meeting a while ago, the district puts a disproportionate amount of funding to those kids, but, of course, that is not surprising. I assume every district does so, due tot he nature of their educational requirements. So far as I am aware, the kids are quite well-accpeted by the student body as a whole and the community as well. I will have to check and see how many are currently enrolled and in what grades they are.

if i can get mrs dd to respond, she is a special educator who used to work in cisd.

[NSMustangProud]

if i can get mrs dd to respond, she is a special educator who used to work in cisd.

I was just curious. I looked at Carrol's AEIS report today on the TEA website but it wasn't up to date.