At some point....

[ScottS]

MNW already had a load of D1 recruits, many with alot of offers. Over the spring, they added a top OL prospect, committed to Miami and some rates the #1 OL recruit in the nation. Now there are rumors of more transfers, a safety or LB. The LB is the #6 prospect in the nation. Who knows how many are transferring. At some point, if you load a team down with D1 commits/top national players, nobody can beat them, not Hoover, not DLS, not John Curtis and even SLC. I have full confidence in SLC, but a team with all 100% D1 recruits will be too tough to beat. Agree or disagree?

[katyfan52]

MNW already had a load of D1 recruits, many with alot of offers. Over the spring, they added a top OL prospect, committed to Miami and some rates the #1 OL recruit in the nation. Now there are rumors of more transfers, a safety or LB. The LB is the #6 prospect in the nation. Who knows how many are transferring. At some point, if you load a team down with D1 commits/top national players, nobody can beat them, not Hoover, not DLS, not John Curtis and even SLC. I have full confidence in SLC, but a team with all 100% D1 recruits will be too tough to beat. Agree or disagree?
It doesn't seem fair that both teams are not held to the same standards... :mad:, but I still think TEAM wins over TALENT...:)

[dragonsdaddy]

i have stated emphatically that any top ten TEAM in texas can beat any group of all-stars, who will likely have played together for few weeks at best. mnw is kind of a hybrid. they are seemingly adding more and more recruitable talent every week. i wonder, do the kids being kicked in the nads by these recruits.....er move-ins, feel good about the process, and will they "move" somewhere else, where they'll be likely to play? we are watching all this from the outside, and would care nada except for the upcoming contest. if half of what we are reading about the transfer situation is accurate, it makes me especially glad that the uil has been in force.

[jbusch]

It doesn't seem fair that both teams are not held to the same standards... :mad:, but I still think TEAM wins over TALENT...:)

Those are my thoughts too, you need some sort of chemistry, good teams that I am aware of such as SLC & Trinity (there are more, so don't get mad )run on a team concept and the players have been together for the most part for several years. A newcomer to the school has to fit into the team concept and desgnated style of play which usually that takes several games at minimum to obtain. If the coach is strong & successful they are not going to let a bunch of athletes come in and "hijack" a proven system, nor will they scrap it for a long shot at the title.

At some point ....... there is a negative to adding these new players to the system, it isn't all about talent, Talent is abundant, the ability to use it correctly is what is rarer.

[drgnbkr]

At some point....soon....we'll all be at the game (or watching on TV) and we'll know which team has it's **** together and which doesn't....My tax money is on Carroll...

[farmerfan]

At some point....soon....we'll all be at the game (or watching on TV) and we'll know which team has it's **** together and which doesn't....My tax money is on Carroll...

That's beautiful man :D

[SLC93]

It is too late for transfers to be accepted in Florida without losing a season of eligibility. Any hardship case has to be heard by the FHSAA executive committee & I have a hard time believing anyone will be approved to go into MNW this season, given the recent publicity.

[TXFOOSBALL]

MNW already had a load of D1 recruits, many with alot of offers. Over the spring, they added a top OL prospect, committed to Miami and some rates the #1 OL recruit in the nation. Now there are rumors of more transfers, a safety or LB. The LB is the #6 prospect in the nation. Who knows how many are transferring. At some point, if you load a team down with D1 commits/top national players, nobody can beat them, not Hoover, not DLS, not John Curtis and even SLC. I have full confidence in SLC, but a team with all 100% D1 recruits will be too tough to beat. Agree or disagree?

Jordan Futch? Where did you hear this?

[drgnbkr]

It is too late for transfers to be accepted in Florida without losing a season of eligibility. Any hardship case has to be heard by the FHSAA executive committee & I have a hard time believing anyone will be approved to go into MNW this season, given the recent publicity.

With all the embarrassment they've had with that program, it's hard to believe anyone would want to go there...but I guess it's the perfect recruiting ground for the type of player they want at Miami....:rolleyes:

[Drake]

It doesn't seem fair that both teams are not held to the same standards... :mad:, but I still think TEAM wins over TALENT...:)Why do you believe MNW isn't a TEAM?

[ScottS]

Jordan Futch? Where did you hear this?

Yep. I think its on the MNW signed another player to Miami.

[dragonsdaddy]

Why do you believe MNW isn't a TEAM?
i am going on the complete overhaul in the coaching staff, and the rumors of transfers. if the latter is true, the team chemistry will be tested early and often. the coaches will have 3 or 4 weeks of 2 a days to inculcate whatever team relationships they will carry onto the campus in hp. doesn't make me think of them as team-centered as all texas top 25 teams are. do you think chhs and coppell will be hitting on all cyliders come week 2?

[drgnbkr]

Why do you believe MNW isn't a TEAM?

You might start with recruits and move ins following the coaches around..

[Drake]

i am going on the complete overhaul in the coaching staff, and the rumors of transfers. if the latter is true, the team chemistry will be tested early and often. the coaches will have 3 or 4 weeks of 2 a days to inculcate whatever team relationships they will carry onto the campus in hp. doesn't make me think of them as team-centered as all texas top 25 teams are. do you think chhs and coppell will be hitting on all cyliders come week 2?I agree with that. Seems like it will be a tall order for them to play together cohesively that early in the season. If the MNW coaches are able to put it all together and they are cohesive and focused, do you think they'll be the better team?

[FeeltheHaka]

I wonder what their rules, if any; apply to their summer practices.

[katyfan52]

Why do you believe MNW isn't a TEAM?
I didn't say they weren't. I don't have enough information to make that judgment, but that would seem to be the pinnacle they would need to surmount considering all the changes and turmoil they have undergone lately. I have seen what kind of TEAM Southlake has. MNW will show us on the field in September. :)

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

I remember in one of those years during the late 90s, the Carter Cowboys had over 20 guys sign a letter of intent in one year. That same year, the Carter Cowboys got beat in the first round of the playoffs.

[odessapermian.com]

I wonder what their rules, if any; apply to their summer practices.

One big difference is in Florida they are allowed to scrimmage other teams in spring.

[wargograw]

i was thinking earlier about this earlier...

does anyone on here actually think mnw may win. because from us texas guys i havent heard a single person say mnw has a solid chance other than this thread right here.

i think mnw has a really good shot at winning but of course i will be rooting for SLC

[Drake]

i was thinking earlier about this earlier...

does anyone on here actually think mnw may win. because from us texas guys i havent heard a single person say mnw has a solid chance other than this thread right here.

i think mnw has a really good shot at winning but of course i will be rooting for SLCI just have no barometer to compare the teams.

I do think that one of the biggest problems for teams with alot of individual talent is their tendency to lose focus in preparation. I don't see that happening in this game. I think not only will MNW be as ready as is possible for a team that's been through what they have this summer, but will have a fire in their belly and be looking to overwhelm SLC with their athleticism.

I see it as a gang fight. Hopefully all will come out injury free. I really never understood why SLC wanted this game? Nothing to gain, alot to lose. That is, if your primary goal is to win another state championship...

[KT2000]

In my opinion, the start (1st quarter or so) will be key to the entire game.

I think all of the negativity surrounding the Northwestern camp coupled with the fact they'll be coming to Texas with virtually no fan support will serve as a big motivating factor for the Bulls players. I see an "us vs. The World" mentality taking over. They will no doubt realize, if they haven't already, that the Carroll game is their chance to make a statement about the program ON THE FIELD with the country watching. I expect a very emotional Bulls team to take the field.

That is a very thin and fickle line to toe, however. If the Dragons can burst out of the gate and show well early, I believe they will be in great shape to win the game and possibly impressively. However, the longer it takes them to get going I believe that plays into the Bulls' hands.

Both teams need to be ready to go as soon as that ball goes in the air or risk digging too deep of a hole to get out of.

[TXFOOSBALL]

In my opinion, the start (1st quarter or so) will be key to the entire game.



I agree KT, I sure hope SLC can look a little better in the first quarter than they did last year.

[FeeltheHaka]

In my opinion, the start (1st quarter or so) will be key to the entire game.

I think all of the negativity surrounding the Northwestern camp coupled with the fact they'll be coming to Texas with virtually no fan support will serve as a big motivating factor for the Bulls players. I see an "us vs. The World" mentality taking over. They will no doubt realize, if they haven't already, that the Carroll game is their chance to make a statement about the program ON THE FIELD with the country watching. I expect a very emotional Bulls team to take the field.

That is a very thin and fickle line to toe, however. If the Dragons can burst out of the gate and show well early, I believe they will be in great shape to win the game and possibly impressively. However, the longer it takes them to get going I believe that plays into the Bulls' hands.

Both teams need to be ready to go as soon as that ball goes in the air or risk digging too deep of a hole to get out of.

I'll respectfully disagree KT. The reason in my opinion is because Southlake is known for starting slow and patient. Southlake likes to take this time to dissect and look for the slightest weakness. They (Southlake) might score once on one of their stereotypical plays, then slow for a little while longer. Then the floodgates open, Southlake finds a weakness, then just goes wild.
Sometimes, I think that Southlake waits for 2 weaknesses to exploit; then uses 1 of them. When the opposing team adusts, they use the other weakness they found. They are so darn smart and patient. Also, Southlake is great at keeping their composure. At least it looks that way from the stands.

[KT2000]

Haka, I think that's the way it works against teams who are well prepared for them but we'll have to wait and see on the Bulls. NW reminds me of Lufkin on defense because of their speed, and the Panthers have never fared very well in holding the Dragon offense down. MNW better have a nice zone package prepared, or Riley might go over 450 yards.

[DrEdward]

I'll respectfully disagree KT. The reason in my opinion is because Southlake is known for starting slow and patient. Southlake likes to take this time to dissect and look for the slightest weakness. They (Southlake) might score once on one of their stereotypical plays, then slow for a little while longer. Then the floodgates open, Southlake finds a weakness, then just goes wild.
Sometimes, I think that Southlake waits for 2 weaknesses to exploit; then uses 1 of them. When the opposing team adusts, they use the other weakness they found. They are so darn smart and patient. Also, Southlake is great at keeping their composure. At least it looks that way from the stands.

Haka, the difference this season may be on the defense, particularly in the secondary. I am simply not sure that Carroll will be able to rely on them as they were able to do the last few seasons to bottle up offenses while the Carroll offsense found its way. This will be particularly true in the early games. I too think the early going will be fairly critical in determining the outcome of this game. Carroll can not afford some of the slow starts that it has had in the past. But then, the defense may well step up and, if they do, then your scenario falls into place.

[SLC93]

Haka, the difference this season may be on the defense, particularly in the secondary. I am simply not sure that Carroll will be able to rely on them as they were able to do the last few seasons to bottle up offenses while the Carroll offsense found its way. This will be particularly true in the early games. I too think the early going will be fairly critical in determining the outcome of this game. Carroll can not afford some of the slow starts that it has had in the past. But then, the defense may well step up and, if they do, then your scenario falls into place.

I agree with the Doc but there are a few factors to consider. The first being the experience this offense returns. I believe they will still probe as that is a staple of Carroll's system but this offense is going to be wildly productive from the first whistle this season. Also, I believe that the defense is going to gel & be far more productive than many of the skeptics think. The pause for concern is really the fact that this game is to be played early in the season. From that regard, yes the young defense has alot of pressure to come together quickly. Remember, though, many of these younger defenders are members of what most claim is the greatest class of athletes Carroll has ever seen. Several of these kids are already bigger, stronger and/or faster than the kids they are replacing. There is much work yet to do, no question, but I have been given no reason by this program to believe it will not happen.

[farmerfan]

I agree with the Doc but there are a few factors to consider. The first being the experience this offense returns. I believe they will still probe as that is a staple of Carroll's system but this offense is going to be wildly productive from the first whistle this season. Also, I believe that the defense is going to gel & be far more productive than many of the skeptics think. The pause for concern is really the fact that this game is to be played early in the season. From that regard, yes the young defense has alot of pressure to come together quickly. Remember, though, many of these younger defenders are members of what most claim is the greatest class of athletes Carroll has ever seen. Several of these kids are already bigger, stronger and/or faster than the kids they are replacing. There is much work yet to do, no question, but I have been given no reason by this program to believe it will not happen.

I am not going to debate this because I have had heard it from others too. However why does it seem like the best class of athletes the school has ever had is the current group coming up or the current set of 8th graders and so forth? It seems like we hear that about every school, every year ;)

[DragonFan]

I believe that this year the Offense will be scoring points and putting pressure on the other team to play catch up. This will allow the younger defense to take advantage of the other teams pushing to keep up and lible to make more mistakes.

It sort of looks like the 2nd year of Chase Daniels at QB. The offense was amazing and the defense was able to make enough stops to allow the offense to rule the day. That year the defense did have to win a few games during the playoffs but that was only after having played at least 12 games as the supporting unit.

[ScottS]

Haka, the difference this season may be on the defense, particularly in the secondary.

So, against a 6'5" and a 6'2" D1A/WRS, that might be a deadly combination.

[SLC93]

I am not going to debate this because I have had heard it from others too. However why does it seem like the best class of athletes the school has ever had is the current group coming up or the current set of 8th graders and so forth? It seems like we hear that about every school, every year ;)

I agree with ya, Farmer. I just know that this class of sophs have been pointed to & discussed for several years now. For whatever that's worth.;)

[theTrutHurts]

I do not think the secondary at Southlake is ever a strength. It is the weakness and will be a glaring weakness this year. Anderson is a good player, so I will give him credit. If I were the MNW coaching staff, I would air it out to the big receivers several times in the game, simply throw about 10 jump balls. They have relied on the defensive line to pressure the quarterback and have done well with this. It also seems that Southlake makes very good adjustments throughout the game, and it will be interesting to see if Wasson is as good as Dodge in this department. If I were defending the Dragons, I really do not know what I would do. I think you would have to mix it up. I would go mostly cover 4 and man with the two safeties free and a spy on Dodge. If I had enough athletes, as this MNW team seems to have, I would run the bump and run man quite a bit with the safeties being free. The key is actually getting your hands on the receivers and knocking the timing of the routes off. The only problem with the man free coverage may be that the defenders would run with the receivers instead of reacting to a running play. Tre Newton and Riley Dodge are a dangerous combination in the running game. I expect that they will be able to score on the Bulls, and this game will be a shoot out as the Bulls should be able to score on the Dragons with the plethora of talent that they have. I would not want to play this game if I were the Dragons. There is no benefit other than measuring possibly the most talented/athletic team in the nation (MNW) vs. what may be the best team in the nation (SLC). I do not know if they will be as good this year due to the decline on the defensive side of the ball. They lost some good defensive players in the front seven. I would like to see Newton, Cantu, and Dodge join Anderson in the secondary. (Obviously a pipe dream) Who will be the starters at corner and the other safety position and what are their heights and weights?

[pied]

Haka, the difference this season may be on the defense, particularly in the secondary. I am simply not sure that Carroll will be able to rely on them as they were able to do the last few seasons to bottle up offenses while the Carroll offsense found its way. This will be particularly true in the early games. I too think the early going will be fairly critical in determining the outcome of this game. Carroll can not afford some of the slow starts that it has had in the past. But then, the defense may well step up and, if they do, then your scenario falls into place.


I have felt the same way for some time. Expressing those thoughts have gotten me into a lot of trouble. I have been accused of being a traitor etc.

When the game was announced, I felt that the staff change at Carroll might also impact the game as the team had not known another staff besides Dodge and co. I wondered if they faced adversity how they would react.

Those thoughts are mitigated now, given the turmoil in Miami, but I do agree the Dragons would be best served by jumping out early.

[DragonFan]

The offense which was the #1 rated last year is coming back almost intact. It will be forced to put points up until the defense can find its personality and can exert its presense.

It will be a great game. However I am getting kind of tired after 5 years of hearing that SLC has never seen (fill in the blank) before.

It will be a real test to see how the start of the Wassen era puts its mark on Southlake Football lore.

[pied]

However I am getting kind of tired after 5 years of hearing that SLC has never seen (fill in the blank) before.



I can understand that, but what is the alternative? Wouldn't it be quite boring to discuss how SLC could not lose?

[OakTreeUp-n-Out]

Who will be the starters at corner and the other safety position and what are their heights and weights?

From other posters here and 7-on-7 reports, CB looks like Murphey (5'10"), Troop (5'8"), Avers (5'7"), Thompson (5'11"), Townsend (5'10"). At safety, Anderson (big 5'10"), Jameson (6'0"), Rake (5'9"), Winklund (6'0"). SLC folks can correct those heights if I'm off.

I'm wondering if they have considered bumping Anderson down to CB and letting the other three battle it out at safety. Anderson's as quick as anyone and could add some nice height/strength to CB. That may be a terrible idea, I don't know... I know he impressed the heck out of me in run support last year as far as getting to the play in a hurry. Everybody read how the smaller CBs reportedly struggled a little bit in 7-on-7, but who knows how that translates to big boy football. Should be fun to watch... I'm sure all of those kids are pushing each other and whoever gets the spot will be tough, if nothing else.

Would love to hear the SLC guys chime in on this one.

[BigJim331]

I think that one thing that gets lost in this discussion is the fact that MNW doesn't play anyone that schemes like SLC. Nobody....

But SLC sees the spread throughout the year. In fact, the SLC defense sees the best version of the no-huddle spread quite regularly:D .

So the question is who is likely better prepared to make the adjustments necessary to not only take advantage of their own strengths, but to also exploit the weaknesses of their opponent? To me SLC wins this battle hands down.

Quite frankly, MNW has never seen a team like SLC....not the other way around.

[DragonFan]

I can understand that, but what is the alternative? Wouldn't it be quite boring to discuss how SLC could not lose?

I would like to see another approach such as "Becuase of our 6'7" wide outs and SLC's 6'0' DBs that we will see the defense struggle" Give me some details and logical reasoning behind your statments not just "you have not seen (fill in the blanks)" because in the last 5 years I believe that SLC has seen the best of about 80 teams.

SLC can be beat and will be at some point and it might be because they have never seen (fill in the blank) but until that time, I will still believe that a more resoned out augrument would have more impact on opponions.

[drgnbkr]

This is getting better..we are actually backing up the spin with some meat!

[Texasfrog]

I think that one thing that gets lost in this discussion is the fact that MNW doesn't play anyone that schemes like SLC. Nobody....

But SLC sees the spread throughout the year. In fact, the SLC defense sees the best version of the no-huddle spread quite regularly:D .

So the question is who is likely better prepared to make the adjustments necessary to not only take advantage of their own strengths, but to also exploit the weaknesses of their opponent? To me SLC wins this battle hands down.

Quite frankly, MNW has never seen a team like SLC....not the other way around.

BigJim, that's my big point right there also. MNW doesnt and hasnt really ever played anyone that runs a true spread offense. Maybe some glorified scrimmage game against BTW but other then that they dont ever ever see the spread offense and they really "NEVER" see anyone that runs it like SLC does.

It's almost like trying to stop the Wing-T or Wishbone in that one game out of the year you play against it. It aint easy because you never see it and it's almost totally foreign to you. It's easier to say you'll stop it than actually doing it.

SLC plays against the spread offense almost every Friday Night. MNW wont bring anything to the table that SLC has never seen. Yes, MNW will bring some stronger individual talent to the field but SLC will have seen their offense many times.

[BigJim331]

That and the fact that Rolle will only have a few short weeks to

a.) Figure out where his talent is
b.) Understand the best use of that talent
c.) Scheme a spread offense that takes advantage of their talent
d.) Institute enough "wrinkles" to make the spread truly effective
e.) Institute a defense capable of defending the entire field
f.) Keep his team focused
g.) Keep his team focused
h.) Keep his team focused


I think the MNW squad will be as talented as SLC has ever seen. But the SLC scheme creates creases and mismatches that makes the other team scratch their head and wonder, "How did that happen?".

As soon as MNW leaves a receiver running free for a 30 or 40 yard hook-up, will their Coach know what to do? When they decide to get pressure on Riley by bringing the house and he hits Tre on a middle screen for a 50 yard TD romp will the Bulls start coming apart at the seams? If Riley jukes and jives for another first down on a 3rd and 13 will the finger pointing start coming out?

Stay tuned....

[DragonFan]

There is a huge diffenece between a collection of individual contributors and a TEAM! I believe that will be the biggest challenge that the new MNW staff will have to contend with!

[OakTreeUp-n-Out]

nm

[The Wet Mustard]

There is a huge diffenece between a collection of individual contributors and a TEAM! I believe that will be the biggest challenge that the new MNW staff will have to contend with!

i agree:cool:

[nwbull]

BigJim, that's my big point right there also. MNW doesnt and hasnt really ever played anyone that runs a true spread offense. Maybe some glorified scrimmage game against BTW but other then that they dont ever ever see the spread offense and they really "NEVER" see anyone that runs it like SLC does.

It's almost like trying to stop the Wing-T or Wishbone in that one game out of the year you play against it. It aint easy because you never see it and it's almost totally foreign to you. It's easier to say you'll stop it than actually doing it.

SLC plays against the spread offense almost every Friday Night. MNW wont bring anything to the table that SLC has never seen. Yes, MNW will bring some stronger individual talent to the field but SLC will have seen their offense many times.
Just because you have seen something doesn't mean you can stop it.Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.

[The Wet Mustard]

Just because you have seen something doesn't mean you can stop it.Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.

Are you trying to say that they went through the offseason/summer like a butterfly? Because butterflies dont live that long. Slc is like one of those turtles that lives a long time. :D
wow this has nothing to do with topic :p