This board is boring...

[TheProphet]

So I will make predictions so that you can allllll yell at me!

Conference Champions-
Pac 10 - USC
Big 10 - Ohio State
Big 12 - Texas
Big East - SOUTH FLORIDA!!...no but really who cares?
SEC - Georgia
ACC - Virginia Tech

Heisman -
1) Vince Young
2)Reggie Bush
3) Laurance Maroney
4) Matt Leinart
5) Drew Stanton

Just predictions...but someone argue with me since I hven't had a good sports talk in 3 days while stuck in traffic running away from the imaginary hurricane.

[farmerfan]

So I will make predictions so that you can allllll yell at me!

Conference Champions-
Pac 10 - USC
Big 10 - Ohio State
Big 12 - Texas
Big East - SOUTH FLORIDA!!...no but really who cares?
SEC - Georgia
ACC - Virginia Tech

Heisman -
1) Vince Young
2)Reggie Bush
3) Laurance Maroney
4) Matt Leinart
5) Drew Stanton

Just predictions...but someone argue with me since I hven't had a good sports talk in 3 days while stuck in traffic running away from the imaginary hurricane.

No way Vince wins the heisman, through three games he has a TD-INT ratio is 5-4, if he keeps that up, he wont even finish in the top 3 in voting. Also its going to come down to Leinart and Bush, the season these two are putting together is incredible, I dont know who will win it out of those two, but I believe its a two man show with the other 3 invited just to make it a party.
The SEC, right now Georgia is flying under the radar, everyone is talking about Urban Myer and Florida, and rightfully so, the Georgia defense is stout and that running game is very strong, DJ Shcokley gets better each game, and that monster TE gives him a nice target, So i could see Georgia winning the SEC, but its going to come down to that game in Jacksonville against the Gators, also they go to Knoxville next week or in two weeks so that will be a interesting game to.

[FootballJunkie]

So I will make predictions so that you can allllll yell at me!

Conference Champions-
Pac 10 - USC
Big 10 - Ohio State
Big 12 - Texas
Big East - SOUTH FLORIDA!!...no but really who cares?
SEC - Georgia
ACC - Virginia Tech

Heisman -
1) Vince Young
2)Reggie Bush
3) Laurance Maroney
4) Matt Leinart
5) Drew Stanton

Just predictions...but someone argue with me since I hven't had a good sports talk in 3 days while stuck in traffic running away from the imaginary hurricane.

Michigan State wins the Big Ten, West Virginia wins the Big East and no it does not matter. Florida or LSU wins the SEC. Looks like you have the other three on target.

As for the Heisman I would reverse your order.

[TheProphet]

Before we rag Vince's lack of TD's too hard, acknowledge that he could have 3-5 more if he had played the whole second half against LaLa and Rice. Leinart pretty much stays in except for that little romping in Arkansas. Picking the Big East Champ is like picking the winner of the Special Olympics, glad we all see eye to eye there. LSU could the SEC because of scheduling more than anything else, since they dont have to play Georgia or Tenn unless the championship calls for it. Michigan State...I love them. But, good defenses beat good offenses, ergo I'll take OSU, but you could be right. As for Heisman, just give it time, Vince will shine. And hey wouldn't another freshman tailback make the raise exciting? cough JC cough

[jtk1519]

No way Vince wins the heisman, through three games he has a TD-INT ratio is 5-4, if he keeps that up, he wont even finish in the top 3 in voting.

Fool! Eric Crouch WON the Heisman in '01 with a 7/10 TD to INT ratio.

[wide-e-wide]

I agree. Vince's numbers would be much better...but he has only played 8 quarters so far...Just wait until he starts playing the entire game..those numbers will change dramatically...assuming he does get to play another full game this season.

[TheProphet]

hey wide go read my aggy rant....

[farmerfan]

Fool! Eric Crouch WON the Heisman in '01 with a 7/10 TD to INT ratio.

who you calling a fool?
o yeah anyone who puts down the mighty vince young or the whiney whorns gets all defensive and results into name calling.
Crouch threw for over 1500 yds and rushed for over 1100 and 18 TD's and was very instrumental in beating a top 5 OU team. He did not throw any int's that could have cost his team a game, (ie vincent against OSU). He also kept his team in the national title picture.
However the most important thing is he did not have someone like a Leinart to go up against, he had Grosemen and Dorsey and neither one of thoise two come close to the production of a Leinart, if you want to compare numbers which is what you did by bringing in Coruch, Vincent wont be close to Leinart in the polls or on the field of play. Same goes for Reggie, Vincent as good as he is, wont finish in the top 2, not that finishing 3rd is bad, but it will be a run away for the men of Troy.
I just find it funny when someone makes a comment not in support of the whorns or its players how you and wide result into name calling, I mean why do yall get so defensive, its not like yall went to school there or anything.

[wide-e-wide]

It's not like yall went to school there or anything?
How do you know that?....

And I never played for the Astros either...doesn't mean I can't support them...I don't know where jtk went to college. But as for me...I have always been a Longhorns fan...besides that...Sam Houston's football team sucks.

[farmerfan]

It's not like yall went to school there or anything?
How do you know that?....

And I never played for the Astros either...doesn't mean I can't support them...I don't know where jtk went to college. But as for me...I have always been a Longhorns fan...besides that...Sam Houston's football team sucks.

becaues you take the rivalry to far and say things that are uncalled for, you hate aggy, that is fine, you hate oklahoma, that is fine, but it is the attitude that you display towards those two teams and your arrogance towards texas that give the people who have a degree from there a bad name. I have some friends who graduated from Texas, and they will tell me all the time how it is the "t-shirt" fans that give their school and fan base a bad name, (same as A&M during the 90's, when they won they had some white trash representing them with a bad name who never even stepped foot on the campus)meeting a t-shirt whorn fan and actually graduating from Texas is like night and day.
Also you love Texas so much, why did you decide on Sam Houston State? was it for the criminal justice program?

[wide-e-wide]

becaues you take the rivalry to far and say things that are uncalled for, you hate aggy, that is fine, you hate oklahoma, that is fine, but it is the attitude that you display towards those two teams and your arrogance towards texas that give the people who have a degree from there a bad name. I have some friends who graduated from Texas, and they will tell me all the time how it is the "t-shirt" fans that give their school and fan base a bad name, meeting a t-shirt whorn fan and actuall graduate from Texas is like night and day.
Also you love Texas so much, why did you decide on Sam Houston State? was it for the criminal justice program?


Because my parent's could not afford to send my to UT. I was given an opportunity to go to Sam Houston for free...believe me I had the grades...but not the money.

And I am not a t-shirt fan. I have been around t-shirt fans...they are the ones that scream obscene things at all the aggy fans at the games...know none of the history of either schools...jump on and off the bandwagon depending on how well the program is doing...

I am not that...never will be.

But there are thousands of alums from UT that share the same thoughts that I have...believe me I associate with them all the time.

Saying that you have to be an alum of a certain school in order to be passionate about them....is just plain stupid.

Subtract all of the revenue brought in by non-alums....sales from team gear,tickets,concessions, and in some cases...tuition...and you would have a lot of schools that go broke...pretty damn quick.

[farmerfan]

Because my parent's could not afford to send my to UT. I was given an opportunity to go to Sam Houston for free...believe me I had the grades...but not the money.

And I am not a t-shirt fan. I have been around t-shirt fans...they are the ones that scream obscene things at all the aggy fans at the games...know none of the history of either schools...jump on and off the bandwagon depending on how well the program is doing...

I am not that...never will be.

But there are thousands of alums from UT that share the same thoughts that I have...believe me I associate with them all the time.

Saying that you have to be an alum of a certain school in order to be passionate about them....is just plain stupid.

Subtract all of the revenue brought in by non-alums....sales from team gear,tickets,concessions, and in some cases...tuition...and you would have a lot of schools that go broke...pretty damn quick.


so during a game, you dont scream anything obscene at a aggie fan if you see one? if not, i take back my judgment, its just the way you conduct yourself on this board you seem to take it overboard a tad which is where i draw my conclusions from.

[jtk1519]

who you calling a fool?
o yeah anyone who puts down the mighty vince young or the whiney whorns gets all defensive and results into name calling.
Crouch threw for over 1500 yds and rushed for over 1100 and 18 TD's and was very instrumental in beating a top 5 OU team. He did not throw any int's that could have cost his team a game, (ie vincent against OSU). He also kept his team in the national title picture.

That is one of the weakest and stupidist arguments I have ever read. Last year alone Vince threw for over 1800 yards, rushed for 1100 while accounting for 26 TDs. Right now, VY is on pace to throw for over 2300 yards and rush for close to 1000. This year he has his team in the NC hunt and was instrumental in leading his team to a victory over a top 4 Ohio State team. He hasnt thrown an INT in two years that cost his team a win.

Try again farmer.

[wide-e-wide]

so during a game, you dont scream anything obscene at a aggie fan if you see one? if not, i take back my judgment, its just the way you conduct yourself on this board you seem to take it overboard a tad which is where i draw my conclusions from.


No...never have.
I'm too busy watching the Longhorns to worry about what aggy is doing.
I only cheer for my team when I go to games. I rarely say anything about the other team...even when I am in my living room watching the game.

The only time I scream something obscene is when a guy from the other team showboats (i.e. T. Owens) other than that I am yelling at/for the guys on my team.

[jtk1519]

so during a game, you dont scream anything obscene at a aggie fan if you see one? if not, i take back my judgment, its just the way you conduct yourself on this board you seem to take it overboard a tad which is where i draw my conclusions from.

Dude, I dont know what you see, but every game in Austin that I have ever tailgated at involved finding as many aggsy as possible and inviting them all over for a few beers. This is very popular among most UT tailgaters. Same is true for Texas and Mobilhoma fans in Dallas. They say bad things about us and we say bad things about them, but we both love our teams and football so their is common ground. Believe it or not farmer, you dont have to hate Texas fans. It's called a rivalry dude. Were supposed to say bad things about each other, but that doesnt mean you have to hate people.

[wide-e-wide]

Dude, I dont know what you see, but every game in Austin that I have ever tailgated at involved finding as many aggsy as possible and inviting them all over for a few beers. This is very popular among most UT tailgaters. Same is true for Texas and Mobilhoma fans in Dallas. They say bad things about us and we say bad things about them, but we both love our teams and football so their is common ground. Believe it or not farmer, you dont have to hate Texas fans. It's called a rivalry dude. Were supposed to say bad things about each other, but that doesnt mean you have to hate people.


Hit the nail on the head jtk...
I'll drink a beer WITH aggy. I just won't take a drink after aggy...ahahahaha
God knows where his mouth has been...

[TheProphet]

so since the convo is off topic here lets just say all my phropecie are true and go look at all the mess i talked in my big 12 post

[farmerfan]

That is one of the weakest and stupidist arguments I have ever read. Last year alone Vince threw for over 1800 yards, rushed for 1100 while accounting for 26 TDs. Right now, VY is on pace to throw for over 2300 yards and rush for close to 1000. This year he has his team in the NC hunt and was instrumental in leading his team to a victory over a top 4 Ohio State team. He hasnt thrown an INT in two years that cost his team a win.

Try again farmer.

i never said cost his team a game, i said almost, if the texas defense did not save his ***, OSU had the oppotunity to blow the game wide open. Michigan he also did some things that almost cost his team a shot at victory and lets not forget the OU game the last two years, and the wazzu state game two years ago.
What is so stupid about my argument again, Crouch played in a offense that was a option offense, Vince plays in a spread offense, Crouch threw the ball on average of 15 times a game and would complete 55%, at the same time he was the main focus of the nebraska offense, he put up stats that are going to be similar to youngs, heck in his hesiman season he was accountable for 25 TD's, over 2800 yards of offense and led his team to a victory over a top 5 OU team and TO THE NATIONAL TITLE GAME, so please inform me on how that argument is so weak? Once again Vince's biggest obsticle is that he has two players in Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart who are going to put up numbers that make Vince's look average. That was not the case with Crouch who had guys in Harrington, Dorsey and Groseman who did not blow his away.
But since I did not proclaim Vincent or texas as all mighty, i will once again be called a fool or stupid, you texas fans crack me up.

[jtk1519]

Hit the nail on the head jtk...
I'll drink a beer WITH aggy. I just won't take a drink after aggy...ahahahaha
God knows where his mouth has been...

It's all in good fun, but some people just cant understand that. It blows me away that people get so bent out of shape over something so stupid. I guess we just shouldnt have rivalries anymore. :rolleyes:

[TheProphet]

ok farmerfan just slow your roll... first off had chris simms not choked and major not been able to do enough to save his ***, UT would have been in that national title game. Oregon and Tennessee BOTH lost on the same day UT did vaulting Nebraska up from like 7th in the polls into 2nd. Its not like they deserved to be there, if you want to give the heisman based on where nebraska ended up, give it to chris simms, cause thats the only way he'dever get one anyways

[farmerfan]

Dude, I dont know what you see, but every game in Austin that I have ever tailgated at involved finding as many aggsy as possible and inviting them all over for a few beers. This is very popular among most UT tailgaters. Same is true for Texas and Mobilhoma fans in Dallas. They say bad things about us and we say bad things about them, but we both love our teams and football so their is common ground. Believe it or not farmer, you dont have to hate Texas fans. It's called a rivalry dude. Were supposed to say bad things about each other, but that doesnt mean you have to hate people.

The Texas fans I hate are the ones who are obnoxious and arrogant, some take it to another level and to me is uncalled for, the same with Aggies or Sooners, its just with Texas being successfull as of late you see more and more people that are Texas fans and as wide said, dont know anything, and you attempt to talk with them in a bar and it goes no where. It was the same with Ags accross this state during the 90's, I remember you couldnt go anywhere without seeing a aggie shirt or hat or hear about this that and the other. I just think that these people take it way to far, comments on the football field and about the way a team play's is one thing, calling them nazis or others that have been said is another.

[TheProphet]

wait, we all thought the aggies were morons and racists a long time before they sucked...

[wide-e-wide]

The Texas fans I hate are the ones who are obnoxious and arrogant, some take it to another level and to me is uncalled for, the same with Aggies or Sooners, its just with Texas being successfull as of late you see more and more people that are Texas fans and as wide said, dont know anything, and you attempt to talk with them in a bar and it goes no where. It was the same with Ags accross this state during the 90's, I remember you couldnt go anywhere without seeing a aggie shirt or hat or hear about this that and the other. I just think that these people take it way to far, comments on the football field and about the way a team play's is one thing, calling them nazis or others that have been said is another.


I don't think we called them Nazis...we said they resemble Nazis...
And they do...BTW

[farmerfan]

ok farmerfan just slow your roll... first off had chris simms not choked and major not been able to do enough to save his ***, UT would have been in that national title game. Oregon and Tennessee BOTH lost on the same day UT did vaulting Nebraska up from like 7th in the polls into 2nd. Its not like they deserved to be there, if you want to give the heisman based on where nebraska ended up, give it to chris simms, cause thats the only way he'dever get one anyways\

I was at taht game, remember is clearly, before kickoff TX Stadium was crazy, only to have chrissy blow it, I felt bad for Major all year, and the way he conducted himself in taht game is something that even I will remember. Im glad he got the start in the bowl game, and composed himself in the manner that all expected from the major. Believe it or not, he probably is one of my favorite college football players of all time, the guy was courageous and had ice water in his veins, rather it being the comeback against A&M in 98, or the games against Colorado and Washington in 01, even a guy who is not a Texas fan will repsect what he did on and off the field.

[TheProphet]

well farmer i couldnt agreee more with your major applewhite statements

[wide-e-wide]

I will agree to never bring up RC Slocum ...if we can all agree to never again bring up Chris Simms...deal?
I knew that dude was a flop the minute he stepped on the field...
My hatred for him ...far outweighs my hatred of aggy...I have to catch
myself every week...I see the #2 on a jersey and I immediately start cursing.

[jtk1519]

i never said cost his team a game, i said almost, if the texas defense did not save his ***, OSU had the oppotunity to blow the game wide open. Michigan he also did some things that almost cost his team a shot at victory and lets not forget the OU game the last two years, and the wazzu state game two years ago.
What is so stupid about my argument again, Crouch played in a offense that was a option offense, Vince plays in a spread offense, Crouch threw the ball on average of 15 times a game and would complete 55%, at the same time he was the main focus of the nebraska offense, he put up stats that are going to be similar to youngs, heck in his hesiman season he was accountable for 25 TD's, over 2800 yards of offense and led his team to a victory over a top 5 OU team and TO THE NATIONAL TITLE GAME, so please inform me on how that argument is so weak? Once again Vince's biggest obsticle is that he has two players in Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart who are going to put up numbers that make Vince's look average. That was not the case with Crouch who had guys in Harrington, Dorsey and Groseman who did not blow his away.
But since I did not proclaim Vincent or texas as all mighty, i will once again be called a fool or stupid, you texas fans crack me up.


It's weak because when this season is over, you might be able to make the same argument for Vince.

Crouch was the focus of the Nebraska offense. Vince is the focus of the Texas offense.

Crouch didnt throw a lot of passes and completed 55% of them. Vince doesnt throw a lot of pass and completes 60% of them.

Crouch accounted for over 2800 yards of offense and 25 TDs. In Vince's only full season he accounted for over 2800 yards of offense and 24 TDs.

Crouch led his team to a win over a top 5 team. Vince has led his team to a win over a top 5 team.

Crouch led his team to a NC. Vince is leading his team that way (he still has the rest of this season and next).

Since the start of last year (Vince's first year as a starter) he has never thrown an INT that hurt his team mainly because in that time he has only lost 1 game and he didnt throw an INT in that game. In fact, Vince is responsible for Texas come back wins against several teams including Kansas, Michigan, Ohio State, etc. Vince's INTs dont hurt Texas because he makes up for them in the end.

[farmerfan]

The defense saved his butt this year against OSU, if it wasn't for the defense holding OSU to those field goals, that TD pass at the end of hte game would have no relevance. Like I said, he has not thrown any int's to lose a game, however he has thrown some picks to put his team in situations where they needed a comeback, can't always say its going to be that way.

You are missing my point about Vince's stats with Crouch's. Crouch had no competition from the likes of a Leinart or Bush, not one of the heisman finalsit in 2001 had the numbers of a Leinart or Bush, and that is why Crouch won the heisman, this year is different, Vince will not have the numbers to compete with a Matt Leinart or Reggie Bush, I am not saying his numbers are bad and I have never said he was not a great football player, Im just stating how I think compared to Leinart and Reggie Bush, Vince will be left out, and if those two guys continue on the pace they are as of right now, then rightfully so.

[jtk1519]

You are missing my point about Vince's stats with Crouch's. Crouch had no competition from the likes of a Leinart or Bush, not one of the heisman finalsit in 2001 had the numbers of a Leinart or Bush, and that is why Crouch won the heisman, this year is different, Vince will not have the numbers to compete with a Matt Leinart or Reggie Bush, I am not saying his numbers are bad and I have never said he was not a great football player, Im just stating how I think compared to Leinart and Reggie Bush, Vince will be left out, and if those two guys continue on the pace they are as of right now, then rightfully so.

And you're missing my point... Vince isnt done yet. He's only a junior. You're trying to compare him to a guy that played 4 seasons. Right now, Vince has barely played 2. All I'm saying, is that of all the things you listed Crouch as doing as a senior (except winning the NC) Vince as already done. Most of them he did as a soph. Your trying to write a histroy book with a great deal of things yet to happen. You're also trying to eliminate Vince and crown Leinart or Bush after just 3 games. Why dont you just calm down a bit and we'll see how things go.

[GTown02]

Lets see...

Conference Winners:
Big 10: OSU or Michigan State... that game is going to be a great one... cant wait...
Big XII: Texas
Pac 10: USC
SEC: LSU
Big East: Dont know haha.. louisville is still a good team, despite that blowout loss...
ACC: VaTech...

Heisman: Leinart... after watching a couple USC games, Leinart would get my vote... unbelieveable player and team... I would love to say VY would beat him, but I dont see it happening..

[farmerfan]

And you're missing my point... Vince isnt done yet. He's only a junior. You're trying to compare him to a guy that played 4 seasons. Right now, Vince has barely played 2. All I'm saying, is that of all the things you listed Crouch as doing as a senior (except winning the NC) Vince as already done. Most of them he did as a soph. Your trying to write a histroy book with a great deal of things yet to happen. You're also trying to eliminate Vince and crown Leinart or Bush after just 3 games. Why dont you just calm down a bit and we'll see how things go.

well said, im calm as can be, if im not mistaken your the one who started with the name calling and got offensive cause i had a opinion on why Vince did not deserve the heisman, I also never said based on what he had done after three games, i said if his numbers dont improve then he wont beat Leinart. You are right, plenty of games left to be played, and as much as Im ready to claim Leinart the winner, you are the same way with Vincent.

[FootballJunkie]

And you're missing my point... Vince isnt done yet. He's only a junior. You're trying to compare him to a guy that played 4 seasons. Right now, Vince has barely played 2. All I'm saying, is that of all the things you listed Crouch as doing as a senior (except winning the NC) Vince as already done. Most of them he did as a soph. Your trying to write a histroy book with a great deal of things yet to happen. You're also trying to eliminate Vince and crown Leinart or Bush after just 3 games. Why dont you just calm down a bit and we'll see how things go.

I think his point was if Vince continues on his path and Leinhart and Bush continue on theirs then their number will be greater therefore Vince will be third in the voting. Not to mention there is a QB up at Michigan St that is putting up some pretty good passing numbers as well. Vince young and Crouch have similar styles in comparison when crouch won he did not have as much competition as Vince does. Put Crouch's numbers up against the current group and he may not have been mentioned. Season is still early so we will see.

[CoppellCowboy57]

You know, i wasnt much of a supporter of College football...I just recently got into it. I am now a Longhorn fan because i love Longhorn fans, there fun to be around, and party around

[farmerfan]

I think his point was if Vince continues on his path and Leinhart and Bush continue on theirs then their number will be greater therefore Vince will be third in the voting. Not to mention there is a QB up at Michigan St that is putting up some pretty good passing numbers as well. Vince young and Crouch have similar styles in comparison when crouch won he did not have as much competition as Vince does. Put Crouch's numbers up against the current group and he may not have been mentioned. Season is still early so we will see.

exactly, thank you.

[jtk1519]

well said, im calm as can be, if im not mistaken your the one who started with the name calling and got offensive cause i had a opinion on why Vince did not deserve the heisman, I also never said based on what he had done after three games, i said if his numbers dont improve then he wont beat Leinart. You are right, plenty of games left to be played, and as much as Im ready to claim Leinart the winner, you are the same way with Vincent.

See, that is where you are wong and that is where assumptions get you in trouble. I am not at all ready to claim Vince the winner. As things stand right now, Vince is in my top 5, but not the winner. My top 5, so far (meaning this could change by next week) are Vince, Leinart, Bush, Drew Stanton of Michigan State and Laurence Maroney of Minnesota and if I had to give the award out now, it would without question go to Stanton.

[farmerfan]

See, that is where you are wong and that is where assumptions get you in trouble. I am not at all ready to claim Vince the winner. As things stand right now, Vince is in my top 5, but not the winner. My top 5, so far (meaning this could change by next week) are Vince, Leinart, Bush, Drew Stanton of Michigan State and Laurence Maroney of Minnesota and if I had to give the award out now, it would without question go to Stanton.


goes both ways, your assumptions of me saying Vince and Crouch are equal is wrong to, you say i was trying to compare Vince and Couch, where i never did such a thing, just using their stats, but you turned it into me trying to say Vince and E Crouch were the same.
You could make a argument for Drew Stanton and many would not disagree with you, he has a big game this week against Michigan where he could solidfy himself among the heisman elite. Based on the season so far, I would disagree with you, I think Leinart has done nothing but prove he is the best QB in college football and the way he has led USC to a dominating first 3 games, including a dominating win in Eugene, to me shows why he is still the front runner for the heisman. Through 3 games, Leinart has put up numers equal to Stanton in 4 games, if they both continue on that pace then it could be a tight race, I still think MSU has something to prove this week against Michigan and this could be the game that takes Stanton out of the heisman race. Just my thoughts.

[TheProphet]

everyone needs to read espn...vince is way ahead of bush in the voting actually, 2nd to leinart but not by far

[mtbray]

who you calling a fool?
o yeah anyone who puts down the mighty vince young or the whiney whorns gets all defensive and results into name calling.
Crouch threw for over 1500 yds and rushed for over 1100 and 18 TD's and was very instrumental in beating a top 5 OU team. He did not throw any int's that could have cost his team a game, (ie vincent against OSU). He also kept his team in the national title picture.
However the most important thing is he did not have someone like a Leinart to go up against, he had Grosemen and Dorsey and neither one of thoise two come close to the production of a Leinart, if you want to compare numbers which is what you did by bringing in Coruch, Vincent wont be close to Leinart in the polls or on the field of play. Same goes for Reggie, Vincent as good as he is, wont finish in the top 2, not that finishing 3rd is bad, but it will be a run away for the men of Troy.
I just find it funny when someone makes a comment not in support of the whorns or its players how you and wide result into name calling, I mean why do yall get so defensive, its not like yall went to school there or anything.


Take the 'fool' comment more lightheartedly. It's just a message board, fool.

[farmerfan]

Take the 'fool' comment more lightheartedly. It's just a message board, fool.

Hey, I took it fine, i just asked who he was calling a fool and was wondering why.

[wide-e-wide]

I pity the fool...that calls me fool.

[bowiedawgs01]

Hey, I took it fine, i just asked who he was calling a fool and was wondering why.

That's why you've mentioned it multiple times and started using that ******** comeback, "whorns." Yep, you sure handled that well, aggy.

you say i was trying to compare Vince and Couch, where i never did such a thing, just using their stats

Comparison
definition: "A statement or estimate of similarities and differences."

[jtk1519]

Game, set, match.

[bowiedawgs01]

Oh, and what exactly does competition have to do with the original point? You said a 5/4 INT ratio would not win the Heisman. Crouch was brought up to refute THAT point. And it did so quite well. He had a 7/10 INT ratio, which flies in the face of your assertion that it's impossible to win a Heisman with a bad ratio.

You added in the competition part, but that's a different discussion. INT Ratio would be arguement A. Competition would be arguement B. He was using Crouch to debunk A.

[jtk1519]

I've heard a couple of people make a very interesting point. You may very well see the vote split between Leinart and Bush leaving the door open for a third candidate to win it all. It happened last year with Jason White and Adrian Peterson who both received almost the exact same number of votes. That left the door wide open for Leinart. If Peterson hadn't been in the running, odds are good White would have won the award. If White wasn't in the running, odds are good Peterson would have won it, but the two cancelled each other out. That is a very real possibility for this year.

[dada]

I'm bored too....I'm gonna toss something out there and you all speak on it if you can....here we go...


The Houston Gamblers

[farmerfan]

That's why you've mentioned it multiple times and started using that ******** comeback, "whorns." Yep, you sure handled that well, aggy.



Comparison
definition: "A statement or estimate of similarities and differences."


so it is fine to call me aggy, but cant say whorn, whorn is ********, but aggy isn't? gotta love the hypocrisy.

I see by definition where you could think I was attempting to compare the two, but where did I ever say Crouch was the same player as Vincent? where did I ever say Crouch was better than Vincent? the fact that you both missed the whole argument is laughable, and yes when im called a idiot or stupid, I will question the reasoning behind it, i guess to you orangebloods, anyone that sees the world in a differnt color is stupid; and you call aggies stubborn.

Also, i am not a aggie, if sticking up for them when people make rediculous claims is considered a aggie then you need some help.
Once again, I challenge you to reread the whole argument and the reasoning why Vince with similar numbers to Crouch would not win the heisman this year, if im wrong ill admit to it and take my crow.

[farmerfan]

Oh, and what exactly does competition have to do with the original point? You said a 5/4 INT ratio would not win the Heisman. Crouch was brought up to refute THAT point. And it did so quite well. He had a 7/10 INT ratio, which flies in the face of your assertion that it's impossible to win a Heisman with a bad ratio.

You added in the competition part, but that's a different discussion. INT Ratio would be arguement A. Competition would be arguement B. He was using Crouch to debunk A.


With the numbers the two have put up so far, Leinart far surpasses Vince, Lineart has completed somewhere around 67% of his passes with a TD/INT ratio of 10/2, he averages around 350 yards a game, all while Lendale White and Reggie Bush are running the ball very efficiently. You take Vince's numbers and compare them to Leinart's and if you still think Vince has a better shot at winning the heisman over Leinart then more power to ya, cause it aint gonna happen.

[bowiedawgs01]

The hypocricy started when you responded to him calling you a fool with calling him a "whorn." Pot, meet kettle.

Are you even American? Is english your first language? I just gave you the definition of comparison. You COMPARED the two. Saying two things are the SAME and COMPARING them are 2 different things.

And again, you're bringing up another arguement. If you could read, you'd understand that his Crouch comparison was to refute your claim about a bad INT ratio dooming a candidate.

If you want to talk about this year's competition, then just admit that you were wrong about the first point. A QB does NOT need a spectacular INT ratio to win the Heisman. Admit that and move on. But mixing the two points is stupid.

[farmerfan]

The hypocricy started when you responded to him calling you a fool with calling him a "whorn." Pot, meet kettle.

Are you even American? Is english your first language? I just gave you the definition of comparison. You COMPARED the two. Saying two things are the SAME and COMPARING them are 2 different things.

And again, you're bringing up another arguement. If you could read, you'd understand that his Crouch comparison was to refute your claim about a bad INT ratio dooming a candidate.

If you want to talk about this year's competition, then just admit that you were wrong about the first point. A QB does NOT need a spectacular INT ratio to win the Heisman. Admit that and move on. But mixing the two points is stupid.


talking about this years competition is why i brought up the int ratio. Crouch had a junior in Joey Harrington to compete with, but Harrington did not have the numbers of a Matt Leinart, given Crouch playing today and going up against Matt Leianrt, then Crouch would not win the heisman either. The question was asked, who you think will win the heisman, and why, i stated why I thought Vince will not win the heisman and reason being his int ratio, which is apart of state which is a decisive factor in determining the winner of the heisman trophy. He then brought up the stats of Crouch, I guess in a way to refut my argument, his points were valid, but neither one of yall have taken into consideration that the numbers Crouch put up did not have to compete with the numbers of someone like Leinart, the whole comparison thing got brought in when jtk added Crouch's numbers from 2001.

You say the hypocrisy got started when I called him a whorn, whats the difference in calling someone a whorn, or a sip or aggy or sheeplover, if i called him a idiot or stupid that would be different.

Yes english is my first language, yes I can read, and yes I compared the two, you will see that the comparison of the two is in a different season at a different time, Crouch had numbers that won him a heisman in 2001 that would not have won him taht same award in 2004 or 2005, Vince is along the same lines, the competition is much stiffer for Vince and room for error is at a minimum to win the award, why do you think Omar Jacobs just lost all hope of winning a heisman? If Vince continues on this same TD/INT ratio then he will have a very difficult time surpassing Leinart or even Bush.

[jtk1519]

talking about this years competition is why i brought up the int ratio. Crouch had a junior in Joey Harrington to compete with, but Harrington did not have the numbers of a Matt Leinart, given Crouch playing today and going up against Matt Leianrt, then Crouch would not win the heisman either. The question was asked, who you think will win the heisman, and why, i stated why I thought Vince will not win the heisman and reason being his int ratio, which is apart of state which is a decisive factor in determining the winner of the heisman trophy. He then brought up the stats of Crouch, I guess in a way to refut my argument, his points were valid, but neither one of yall have taken into consideration that the numbers Crouch put up did not have to compete with the numbers of someone like Leinart, the whole comparison thing got brought in when jtk added Crouch's numbers from 2001.

You say the hypocrisy got started when I called him a whorn, whats the difference in calling someone a whorn, or a sip or aggy or sheeplover, if i called him a idiot or stupid that would be different.

Yes english is my first language, yes I can read, and yes I compared the two, you will see that the comparison of the two is in a different season at a different time, Crouch had numbers that won him a heisman in 2001 that would not have won him taht same award in 2004 or 2005, Vince is along the same lines, the competition is much stiffer for Vince and room for error is at a minimum to win the award, why do you think Omar Jacobs just lost all hope of winning a heisman? If Vince continues on this same TD/INT ratio then he will have a very difficult time surpassing Leinart or even Bush.


farmer, do you ever actually think about the crap you are typing. So, nobody competing for the Heisman in 2001 had number that compared to Lord Leinart's Heisman numbers? Interesting. The FACTS...

2004 Heisman winner

Lord Matt Leinart - 65% completion for 3322 yards and 33 TDs

2001 Stats for Heisman finalists

#1 (Heisman winner) Eric Crouch - 55% completion/5.5 ypc avg. for 2625 total yards and 25 total TDs
#2 Rex Grossman - 66% completion for 3896 yards and 34 TDs
#3 Ken Dorsey - 59% completion for 3014 yards and 26 TDs
#4 Joey Harrington - 59% completion for 2764 yards and 27 TDs
#5 David Carr - 65% completion for 4839 yards and 46 TDs

You're right farmer. Crouch was able to win the Heisman that year because nobody he was up against could put up huge numbers like Lord Matt Leinart. :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

farmer, do you ever actually think about the crap you are typing. So, nobody competing for the Heisman in 2001 had number that compared to Lord Leinart's Heisman numbers? Interesting. The FACTS...

2004 Heisman winner

Lord Matt Leinart - 65% completion for 3322 yards and 33 TDs

2001 Stats for Heisman finalists

#1 (Heisman winner) Eric Crouch - 55% completion/5.5 ypc avg. for 2625 total yards and 25 total TDs
#2 Rex Grossman - 66% completion for 3896 yards and 34 TDs
#3 Ken Dorsey - 59% completion for 3014 yards and 26 TDs
#4 Joey Harrington - 59% completion for 2764 yards and 27 TDs
#5 David Carr - 65% completion for 4839 yards and 46 TDs

You're right farmer. Crouch was able to win the Heisman that year because nobody he was up against could put up huge numbers like Lord Matt Leinart. :rolleyes:

I think about the crap i type all the time, i just want to give yall some stuff to bash me on.

Looking at thos numbers they are impressive, I stand corrected.

JTK you have already stated that if you had a vote it would go to Drew Stanton, what is it that Drew Stanton has done to deserve the hesiman over your boy vince or lord matt?

[TheProphet]

Leinart is only good because of Bush...I really thought everyone knew that. The offense would be borderline stagnant without Bush in it because it would be terribly one dimensional and USC would be Tech with a good defensive backfield. Leinart is effectively Troy Aikman and USC is sort of the 90's Cowboys, I guess that makes OU the Bills. See, Leinart has never really done anything special because he has never really been in a crunch, last year the men of troy were really USC's front 7 which saw only 2 return and 4 depart for pro ball. Matt Leinart will be forgotten as soon as SC loses, I don't know who will beat them, but they will lose, because they are just not good enough to have that bullseye on them and go a whole season undefeated. After their loss you will see a Heisman 5 including Laurance Maroney, especially if Minnesota stays in big 10 contention. Basically, candidates live and die with the success of their team, which is why Leinart is number 1 as of now...

[farmerfan]

Leinart is only good because of Bush...I really thought everyone knew that. The offense would be borderline stagnant without Bush in it because it would be terribly one dimensional and USC would be Tech with a good defensive backfield. Leinart is effectively Troy Aikman and USC is sort of the 90's Cowboys, I guess that makes OU the Bills. See, Leinart has never really done anything special because he has never really been in a crunch, last year the men of troy were really USC's front 7 which saw only 2 return and 4 depart for pro ball. Matt Leinart will be forgotten as soon as SC loses, I don't know who will beat them, but they will lose, because they are just not good enough to have that bullseye on them and go a whole season undefeated. After their loss you will see a Heisman 5 including Laurance Maroney, especially if Minnesota stays in big 10 contention. Basically, candidates live and die with the success of their team, which is why Leinart is number 1 as of now...

OU won a national title in 2000, thus eliminating them from Buffalo Bill status.

USC is great for more reasons than Reggie Bush, LenDale White is a very underrated TB, and his WR corp of Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith and Dominique Byrd are as talented a corp as you will find. Is Bush a difference maker? sure, but to suggest that without him they would be nothing is stretching it a bit.
USC won't lose a game, they just went into Autzen Stadium, one of the loudest stadiums in America and came away with a decisive victory, this week I believe they will do the same when they go to Arizona State, but I could be wrong.

[TheProphet]

your right i failed to acknowledge those players on offense. but that will go farther to support my claim that leinart is only made by the players around him. i do think they will lose a game, but like you, i acknowledge i could be wrong...

[farmerfan]

your right i failed to acknowledge those players on offense. but that will go farther to support my claim that leinart is only made by the players around him. i do think they will lose a game, but like you, i acknowledge i could be wrong...

Leinart gets the ball to them 67% of the time, he led scoring drives against Arkansas that saw 4td's on the first 8 plays, I think Leinart and the players around him all make each other better, I dont think John David Booty could come in and lead USC the way Leinart has, Leinart is a special player and one that the college game has not seen in a long time, he has a shot to become the first QB to lead a team to 3 national championships, not bad for a guy who will only start 3 seasons.

[TheProphet]

well ill agree to disagree with you on that one since you do bring up some good points and seem to know what you are talking about...

EVERYONE TAKE NOTE, THE PROPHET IS BEING NICE.

[jtk1519]

JTK you have already stated that if you had a vote it would go to Drew Stanton, what is it that Drew Stanton has done to deserve the hesiman over your boy vince or lord matt?

I liked his performance against Notre Dame. I would vote for Stanton now, but I dont think he will even be in my top 5 by year's end simply because I dont think the team around him is good enough.

The Heisman is supposed to be awarded to the best player in college football. However, we all know that the award is usually given to the best player on the best team. USC is the best team, but I dont believe he is the best player on his team. The simple fact that Bush is such a high Heisman hopefull to me says that Leinart isnt the best on his team. I said the very same thing of Jason White last year. That is why I think the vote will be split.

Leinart has other things working against him. Voters just dont like giving the award to the same player two times in a row. Look at Jason White last year. There is no way you could say that Leinart was better than White based on the numbers...

Leinart - 65% completion for 3322 yards and 33 TDs
White - 66% completion for 3205 yards and 35 TDs

Leinart won because Peterson took away a lot of votes from white and voters dont like giving the award to the same player twice. I think you will see this play itself out again. In the Heisman race, Reggie Bush is Matt Leinart's biggest enemy.

[jtk1519]

Leinart gets the ball to them 67% of the time, he led scoring drives against Arkansas that saw 4td's on the first 8 plays, I think Leinart and the players around him all make each other better, I dont think John David Booty could come in and lead USC the way Leinart has, Leinart is a special player and one that the college game has not seen in a long time, he has a shot to become the first QB to lead a team to 3 national championships, not bad for a guy who will only start 3 seasons.

I think you are wrong there. Leinart is good, but he is not the god he is being made out to be. Leinart has enough talent around him that USC could probably play with a few NFL teams. If you look at what scouts are saying about Leinart in the NFL, their biggest fear is that he is a product of the system. Meaning, he looks so great because of all the talent around him. Leinart is just another good QB. Probably better than any in the draft last year, but no better or worse than the likes of Manning, Brady, Culpepper, Palmer, etc. He certainly isnt the second coming of Montana.

Vince has a very good chance because of the "wow" factor. Say what you will, Vince drops jaws and makes all the highlight reels. It's this kind of stuff that gets stuck in voters minds. It's plays like this, that no other QB can make,...

http://jcdenton.unmatchedmedia.com/UTvUM04-VinceYoung-TD3(DivX).avi

...that can stuck in voter's minds and they will remember when it comes time to vote. There are several QBs that could do what Leinart does with all that talent around him, but there is no other QB and maybe no other athlete in the nation that can do what Vince does. It's really that simple.

[tailgater]

Vince Will Win

[farmerfan]

I think you are wrong there. Leinart is good, but he is not the god he is being made out to be. Leinart has enough talent around him that USC could probably play with a few NFL teams. If you look at what scouts are saying about Leinart in the NFL, their biggest fear is that he is a product of the system. Meaning, he looks so great because of all the talent around him. Leinart is just another good QB. Probably better than any in the draft last year, but no better or worse than the likes of Manning, Brady, Culpepper, Palmer, etc. He certainly isnt the second coming of Montana.

Vince has a very good chance because of the "wow" factor. Say what you will, Vince drops jaws and makes all the highlight reels. It's this kind of stuff that gets stuck in voters minds. It's plays like this, that no other QB can make,...

http://jcdenton.unmatchedmedia.com/UTvUM04-VinceYoung-TD3(DivX).avi

...that can stuck in voter's minds and they will remember when it comes time to vote. There are several QBs that could do what Leinart does with all that talent around him, but there is no other QB and maybe no other athlete in the nation that can do what Vince does. It's really that simple.

I respect your opinion, and you make some good points, that said, we are not talking about NFL quality right now, we are not talking about how he would do in the NFL, we are talking about the college season, Leinart is one of the more consistant QB's in college football, it takes a good one to get the ball to the wideouts on a regular basis and Leinart has done just that, he is a great college QB and showed that as a sophmore when he led USC to a national title and threw for 3500 yards and 38td's, his TD/INT ratio is incredible throughout his carrer and his winning percentage is even better, I mean all the guy has done is guide his team to a school record 25 consecutive wins and is something like 28-1 as a starter, you say he is good and you are entitled to your opinion, I think he is a great college football player who will do things that may never be done again. (3 consecutive national titles, and possibly 38-1 as a starter) its a debate that will be never ending, and one that sounds as if neither will change their mind on.

[FootballJunkie]

your right i failed to acknowledge those players on offense. but that will go farther to support my claim that leinart is only made by the players around him. i do think they will lose a game, but like you, i acknowledge i could be wrong...
My question would be what quarterback would be any good without a supporting cast?? He can't throw it to himself, he doesnt play defense. It is a team sport. He just happens to have great players around him to make him look better. I don't think you could just put anyone out there and get that type of production. he is not the end all, but he is a good QB

[mtbray]

/yoda
Someone Jacobs Omar did say?
/yoda

[FootballJunkie]

/yoda
Someone Jacobs Omar did say?
/yoda

Boise St made Jacobs look baaaad. Scratch his name off the heisman list.

[wide-e-wide]

baaaaaad?

Jacobs doesn't play for aggy...get it straight.

[TheProphet]

Football Junkie-
The thing you have to decipher is...does the QB make everyone else look better? or does everyone else make the QB look better?

Example: Lets look back at Vince's Madison high days. Now we all know he had C Lew in the backfield with him. Now Vince has gone on and proven himself completely in college ball, Courtney Lewis is TRASH at A&M, im waiting for Javorskie to jump in any day. So from that we can take that in high school Vince made everyone around him look better...

On the other side of that you got your Chris Weinke's, and Rex Grossman's, and Adrian Peterson's, who when shown for their own talent, it is clear they fed off the others around them. That is why Peterson never was or will be better than Cedric Benson until he can run consistently against big 12 teams with 8 guys in the box like Benson did.

[FootballJunkie]

baaaaaad?

Jacobs doesn't play for aggy...get it straight.
What are you talking about???????????????????

[bowiedawgs01]

baaaaaaaa means NO!

[TheProphet]

well the admin revoked my nazi comparison privi's but notice what won the poll....

[FootballJunkie]

Football Junkie-
The thing you have to decipher is...does the QB make everyone else look better? or does everyone else make the QB look better?

Example: Lets look back at Vince's Madison high days. Now we all know he had C Lew in the backfield with him. Now Vince has gone on and proven himself completely in college ball, Courtney Lewis is TRASH at A&M, im waiting for Javorskie to jump in any day. So from that we can take that in high school Vince made everyone around him look better...

On the other side of that you got your Chris Weinke's, and Rex Grossman's, and Adrian Peterson's, who when shown for their own talent, it is clear they fed off the others around them. That is why Peterson never was or will be better than Cedric Benson until he can run consistently against big 12 teams with 8 guys in the box like Benson did.


So who on the Longhors did Benson make better??? Well perhaps Peterson won't be Cedric Benson but as far as running on Big XII teams I believe he put up 225 on the Longhorns last year while Benson only had 92. Benson is sitting on the bench in Chicago behind Thomas Jones and another guy named Peterson so maybe it is a good thing if he is not Cedric Benson. Carnell Williams is leading the league in rushing and even Ronnie Brown went over 100 yards this weekend. Perhaps Benson was a great college player but does not have what it takes to be in the NFL. Now we see why he was not the #1 pick he probably wasn't even the best back.

[Reaganrattler07]

well the admin revoked my nazi comparison privi's but notice what won the poll....

Think about it, most of the users on this board are sips.....why do you think it won?

[mtbray]

Think about it, most of the users on this board are sips.....why do you think it won?

:confused:

[Reaganrattler07]

:confused:

He was asking if most people thought the Aggie Corps of Cadets looked like Nazis....I said that cause most people who responded were sips, that of course msot people thought they looked like Nazis....but apparently he didn't know that the uniforms and most of the appearance that the Cadets follow resemble closely the uniform the US Army once used....the same Army to fight the Nazis...

[mtbray]

He was asking if most people thought the Aggie Corps of Cadets looked like Nazis....I said that cause most people who responded were sips, that of course msot people thought they looked like Nazis....but apparently he didn't know that the uniforms and most of the appearance that the Cadets follow resemble closely the uniform the US Army once used....the same Army to fight the Nazis...

Yes, I know, I understand the English language. Now with that said....




:confused:

[TheProphet]

alright im backing off the nazi claim...even though it won...but something tells me that you sir are an aggy...no no not because you support them...but because you mock my democratic system...i will leave it at the corps reminds me of a "fascist regime" and not specify which one... until then i will unite with my fellow longhorns wide and bray in singing god bless america as we hold our voting system close to our hearts

[Reaganrattler07]

alright im backing off the nazi claim...even though it won...but something tells me that you sir are an aggy...no no not because you support them...but because you mock my democratic system...i will leave it at the corps reminds me of a "fascist regime" and not specify which one... until then i will unite with my fellow longhorns wide and bray in singing god bless america as we hold our voting system close to our hearts

I suppose your talking to me? What are you talking about the democratic system? Well, I'm sure the select cadets of that "facist regime" are real proud to protect you.

And I technically don't have an affiliation with any college. Apart from the fact that my sister graduated from A&M and my dad with Virginia Tech.

[TheProphet]

yeah well that 1/4 im proud of, still, its a minority inside a group of idiots

[Reaganrattler07]

yeah well that 1/4 im proud of, still, its a minority inside a group of idiots

And all the whorn Cadets are all saints in your eyes?

And you didn't answer my question...where did I mock your democratic system?

[wide-e-wide]

The whorn cadets?
That's tight...that's what the Vince Young groupies can call
themselves...woo-hoo! Thanks 'Skins........