Will the Titans make the playoffs?

[whs08]

Well? Opinions are welcome! I'm going to say yes, even with a young group of receivers!

[Humblefied]

Draft was disappointing but its a funny thing when you have a guy like Vince who just finds a way to win. I think he might play better with worse players since he knows he has to step up and he proves that he can. It will be an interesting year.

I have a friend in Nashville and he said that Vince is pretty much a god there right now.

[K-Rock]

No.

[svhorns]

Yes... the Titans have http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/vince.gif... pretty dumb question if you ask me

[jakerz]

Nah, but a Superbowl victory is in the cooking next year after they draft Limas Sweed with their first round pick.:)

[BlackandRed05]

If going 7 - 9 will make the playoffs, then Yes.

2 losses to Indy,
1 loss each to N.O. , Atlanta , Oakland , Carolina , Denver , Cincy, and Jacksonville

[whs08]

Yes... the Titans have http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/vince.gif... pretty dumb question if you ask me

I wasn't asking if it was a dumb question, I was asking your opinion? I honor your opinion, and yes I know they have VY! I was wondering if there were any believers out there!

[whs08]

If going 7 - 9 will make the playoffs, then Yes.

2 losses to Indy,
1 loss each to N.O. , Atlanta , Oakland , Carolina , Denver , Cincy, and Jacksonville

9-7 would do it. I see them beating Atlanta, Oakland,Carolina, and Denver! IMHO!:cool:

[whs08]

No.

Why? Just wondering!:confused:

[twcpfan1]

Yes... the Titans have http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/vince.gif... pretty dumb question if you ask me

It might be a little premature to assume that VY will be a great NFL quarterback. I'd wait until he plays one full season before annointing him. Especially when you take into account that he does not fit the mold of present or past greats.

[whs08]

It might be a little premature to assume that VY will be a great NFL quarterback. I'd wait until he plays one full season before annointing him. Especially when you take into account that he does not fit the mold of present or past greats.

um...........! Do we have a hater?

[twcpfan1]

um...........! Do we have a hater?

Not at all. I was bummed when the Texans did not draft him. That was right up there with the Portland not taking Jordan deal.

[whs08]

Not at all. I was bummed when the Texans did not draft him. That was right up there with the Portland not taking Jordan deal.

I see your point now! I was also some what bummed with the Texans not taking VY. But yet again it's Houston.

[twcpfan1]

I see your point now! I was also some what bummed with the Texans not taking VY. But yet again it's Houston.

Maybe the Houston fans deserve it. After all we're probably right up there when talking about the biggest bandwagon fans there is.

[KT2000]

They will cut it very close again this year, but don't know if Vince will have the sidekick he needs at RB after losing Henry. None of the other guys are proven.

[whs08]

They will cut it very close again this year, but don't know if Vince will have the sidekick he needs at RB after losing Henry. None of the other guys are proven.

Chris Brown would work. Veteran experience! Lendale White needs to get is act together!

[jtk1519]

I think they will be better at WR. I know that opinion is somewhat controversial since the Titans lost their leading stat gainers in that category, but the Titans WRs were horrible last year. They dropped more passes than any other team in the league if I'm not mistaken, which is startling when you consider that 4 teams had fewer pass attempts last year. The new receivers are young and some may not be great athletes, but they are known for being precise and having good hands. With Troupe and Scaife healthy along with Hall who proved to be reliable catching out of the backfield, I think the Titans will be a better passing team. Of course, Vince being in his second year will help that along tremendously.

I also think the Titans will be okay running the ball. People talk about Travis Henry and the good season he had, but it's important to remember that he was having a horrible year until Vince became the starter. Once Vince went under center, Henry's production shot up... that's not a coincidence. Chris Brown is coming back so there will be some experience and Brown has proven to be effective when healthy. Hopefully LenWhale has his act together so that he, Brown and Vince can help the new Henry along.

I don't know if the Titans can make the playoffs because Indy will still be good and I think Jacksonville will be much improved. With as good as the AFC South can be and with as good as the AFC as a whole is with Denver, San Diego, New England, Baltimore, Cincy, etc., the Titans could win 10 games and still miss the playoffs. I'm going to say they will come up just short again and I think the defense, again, will be the reason to blame. The Titans have brought over some great DBs via free agency and the draft, but little was done to address the D-line and outside of Bulluck, there isn't much at LB. I trust the offense with Chow and Vince. I can't say the same of the defense right now.

[Humblefied]

Maybe the Houston fans deserve it. After all we're probably right up there when talking about the biggest bandwagon fans there is.

Well the Texans havent given us much to root for. I understand how fans don't want to all out committ to a team when they come every year and say they will make the playoffs and they don't. The first year was alright, but they still haven't put together a team that can compete. Who wants to cheer for that?

[svfootball45]

Not at all. I was bummed when the Texans did not draft him. That was right up there with the Portland not taking Jordan deal.

alright the texans will never win a championship under this management. or even make a playoff appearance. VY almost got the titans into the playoffs this past season. reggie bush not the main reason but helped his team get to tha NFC championship game (alot of that was brees but bush was a good weapon) Mario Williams did nothing he had no stand out stats or something to show for his #1 overall pick. The texans are the laughing stock of the NFL

[svfootball45]

oh oops and yes i think the titans will at least make it to the wildcard game

[twcpfan1]

Well the Texans havent given us much to root for. I understand how fans don't want to all out committ to a team when they come every year and say they will make the playoffs and they don't. The first year was alright, but they still haven't put together a team that can compete. Who wants to cheer for that?

I'm talking way before the Texans came along. We couldn't even fill the Astrodome for Oiler playoff games. Corporations had to come in and buy up all remaining tickets for the blackout not to take effect. And of course, look at the way Warren Moon was treated here. Not to mention Hakeem before the Rockets won a championship.

[Humblefied]

I'm talking way before the Texans came along. We couldn't even fill the Astrodome for Oiler playoff games. Corporations had to come in and buy up all remaining tickets for the blackout not to take effect. And of course, look at the way Warren Moon was treated here. Not to mention Hakeem before the Rockets won a championship.

Ok, good point, but the Texans still haven't shown us anything to cheer for.

[whs08]

jtk1519. I totally agree with your post! But I think they will have a much better secondary then last year. Hope,Griffin,Harper,and the guy from seattle that they got in free agency, last name starts with an H "I think". Also I can't forget Thompson!

[K-Rock]

Why? Just wondering!:confused:

VY is great at making plays. He is in the same mold as Mike Vick. VY will go down in history as one of the greatest college QBs ever.

However, I don't think he will be great in the NFL. His passing skills are not pro level IMO. He finished with a 66.7 QB rating, was only 50% in accuracy, and threw more INTs than TDs. He will make some plays just like he did last year(He got the ROY and still could not get the Titans into the playoffs.), but that will not be enough to carry this team.

Plus teams have more film to study. They have seen him in the Titans offense and have had the entire offseason to look for ways to exploit weaknesses. A lack of talent at WR will hurt as well. If teams can use single coverage they will be able to stack the line and shade Young. If Young can't throw the ball he will run more, which will up the chances of him getting hurt.

I am not a hater, but I do not have man love for him like a lot of UT fans either.

[jtk1519]

VY is great at making plays. He is in the same mold as Mike Vick. VY will go down in history as one of the greatest college QBs ever.

However, I don't think he will be great in the NFL. His passing skills are not pro level IMO. He finished with a 66.7 QB rating, was only 50% in accuracy, and threw more INTs than TDs.

Vince Young's rookie season:
15 games, 51.5% completion on 357 attempts, 2199 yards, 12 TDs, 13 INTs

John Elway's rookie season:
11 games, 47.5% completion on 259 attempts, 1663 yards, 7 TD, 14 INTs

Troy Aikman's rookie season:
11 games, 52.0% completion on 293 attempts, 1749 yards, 9 TDs, 18 INTs

Peyton Manning rookie season:
16 games, 56.7% completion on 575 attempts, 3739 yards, 26 TDs, 28 INTs

Terry Bradshaw's rookie season:
13 games, 38.1% completion on 218 attempts, 1410 yards, 6 TDs, 24 INTs

Phil Simms' rookie season:
12 games, 50.6% completion on 265 attempts, 1743 yards, 13 TDs, 14 INTs

Man, just wait until other teams get film on Favre and Manning. Those guys will never be able to make plays again.

[BlackandRed05]

Vince Young's rookie season:
15 games, 51.5% completion on 357 attempts, 2199 yards, 12 TDs, 13 INTs

John Elway's rookie season:
11 games, 47.5% completion on 259 attempts, 1663 yards, 7 TD, 14 INTs

Troy Aikman's rookie season:
11 games, 52.0% completion on 293 attempts, 1749 yards, 9 TDs, 18 INTs

Peyton Manning rookie season:
16 games, 56.7% completion on 575 attempts, 3739 yards, 26 TDs, 28 INTs

Terry Bradshaw's rookie season:
13 games, 38.1% completion on 218 attempts, 1410 yards, 6 TDs, 24 INTs

Phil Simms' rookie season:
12 games, 50.6% completion on 265 attempts, 1743 yards, 13 TDs, 14 INTs

Man, just wait until other teams get film on Favre and Manning. Those guys will never be able to make plays again.

Those 5 QB's are true pocket passers that have all been in Superbowls. They all had solid running games and decent WR's throughout thier careers. Apples and Oranges JTK

[K-Rock]

Those 5 QB's are true pocket passers that have all been in Superbowls. They all had solid running games and decent WR's throughout thier careers. Apples and Oranges JTK

No need to try and explain. Some UT fans on this board would get on their kness to sniff Young's farts.

Comparing Young to Manning or Elway is crazy.

[jtk1519]

Those 5 QB's are true pocket passers that have all been in Superbowls. They all had solid running games and decent WR's throughout thier careers. Apples and Oranges JTK

None of them went to Superbowls their rookie seasons and Vince threw the ball just as well or better than all of those "true pocket passers" did during their rookie seasons and he managed to do it without NFL passing skills apparently.

BTW, the RB and WR comment was just stupid. Unless you can look 20 years into the future, how can you possibly say Vince will not have spent his career with solid running games and decent WRs? Where were those running games and WRs during Aikman, Elway and Simms' rookie seasons?

Just the facts ma'am.

[BlackandRed05]

No need to try and explain. Some UT fans on this board would get on their kness to sniff Young's farts.

Comparing Young to Manning or Elway is crazy.

:D :D :D

[jtk1519]

Comparing Young to Manning or Elway is crazy.

I realize it isn't fair to Peyton or Elway to try and compare them to Vince, but there has to be a basis for comparison somewhere. I figured one of the best mobile QBs of all time and arguably the greatest pocket passer of all time would have had monster rookie seasons with their pretty NFL passing skills and all. Fortunately, the facts know no bias. ;)

[K-Rock]

:D :D :D

Really man, I am not hating on VY. He is a great athlete, but the Titans are not a great team. With teams keying on Vince this year, making their defensive gameplan all about him, I do not think he is good enough to carry this team. Brady carried the Pats last year with weak receivers and RBs, but Vince is not there yet. IMO he never will be.

[BlackandRed05]

Really man, I am not hating on VY. He is a great athlete, but the Titans are not a great team. With teams keying on Vince this year, making their defensive gameplan all about him, I do not think he is good enough to carry this team. Brady carried the Pats last year with weak receivers and RBs, but Vince is not there yet. IMO he never will be.

That was my point, they dont have an Edgerrin James, Emmitt, Marvin Harrison, Irvin, Freeman, Sharpe, or any of those caliber players.

[jtk1519]

Really man, I am not hating on VY. He is a great athlete, but the Titans are not a great team. With teams keying on Vince this year, making their defensive gameplan all about him, I do not think he is good enough to carry this team. Brady carried the Pats last year with weak receivers and RBs, but Vince is not there yet. IMO he never will be.

Knowing the facts and the precedent that has been set numerous times before, on what data is your opinion based? Of course the Titans were not a great team. Great teams don't get the #3 overall pick, but the Cowboys weren't great when they drafted Aikman, the Broncos weren't great when they drafted Elway, the Colts weren't great when they drafted Peyton, etc. Half dozen Superbowl wins later, do you think the fans of those teams give a damn?

[jtk1519]

That was my point, they dont have an Edgerrin James, Emmitt, Marvin Harrison, Irvin, Freeman, Sharpe, or any of those caliber players.

And you know for sure that they will not acquire those types of players? Please, tell me how you know this. Aikman had Irvin his rookie year. Manning had Harrison his rookie season. Lotta good that did them. Vince had Drew Bennett and Bobby Wade (who?) and he still did as good or better than the guys throwing to Irvin and Harrison. However, Elway played 7 seasons before Sharpe was even drafted. Peyton played 2 seasons before Edge was drafted and Aikman played a year before Emmitt was drafted.

You guys speaking in such absolutes crack me up. After one season and you have already ruled out the possibility that over the next couple of years, the Titans will draft an Irvin, Sharpe or Emmitt caliber player. Thank God the Cowboys kept trying after they drafted Aikman. My Thanksgiving afternoons as a child would have been a lot more boring had they worked under the same absolutes you guys do.,

[BlackandRed05]

None of them went to Superbowls their rookie seasons and Vince threw the ball just as well or better than all of those "true pocket passers" did during their rookie seasons and he managed to do it without NFL passing skills apparently.

BTW, the RB and WR comment was just stupid. Unless you can look 20 years into the future, how can you possibly say Vince will not have spent his career with solid running games and decent WRs? Where were those running games and WRs during Aikman, Elway and Simms' rookie seasons?

Just the facts ma'am.

For you to compare VY to those 5 QBs was what was stupid. Compare him to Romo or someone like him.

[K-Rock]

Knowing the facts and the precedent that has been said numerous times before, on what data is your opinion based? Of course the Titans were not a great team. Great teams don't get the #3 overall pick, but the Cowboys weren't great when they drafted Aikman, the Broncos weren't great when they drafted Elway, the Colts weren't great when they drafted Peyton, etc. Half dozen Superbowl wins later, do you think the fans of those teams give a damn?

This whole thread was asking for opinion. DO I THINK THE TITANS WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NEXT SEASON?

My opinion is no. They didn't make last year. Did nothing to improve the team over the offseason. Vince is not a good enough QB to carry a bad team.

[BlackandRed05]

And you know for sure that they will not acquire those types of players? Please, tell me how you know this. Aikman had Irvin his rookie year. Manning had Harrison his rookie season. Lotta good that did them. Vince had Drew Bennett and Bobby Wade (who?) and he still did as good or better than the guys throwing to Irvin and Harrison. However, Elway played 7 seasons before Sharpe was even drafted. Peyton played 2 seasons before Edge was drafted and Aikman played a year before Emmitt was drafted.

You guys speaking in such absolutes crack me up. After one season and you have already ruled out the possibility that over the next couple of years, the Titans will draft an Irvin, Sharpe or Emmitt caliber player. Thank God the Cowboys kept trying after they drafted Aikman. My Thanksgiving afternoons as a child would have been a lot more boring had they worked under the same absolutes you guys do.,

No one ruled that out. But they sure didnt do much to help themselves out this past draft, now did they? I just rule out the Titans winning more than 7 ( maybe 8 ) games this season. You know that in the AFC you will be lucky if 10 wins get you in the playoffs.

[jtk1519]

For you to compare VY to those 5 QBs was what was stupid. Compare him to Romo or someone like him.

Why? That doesn't make any sense. Romo was an undrafted QB that had been in the league for over a year before taking his first snap. Vince was a top draft pick who started most of his rookie season. Hence the reason I compared Vince to other top draft picks that started their rookie seasons. I see little basis for a comparison between Romo and Vince.

I picked Elway, Aikman, Simms, etc., not to compare them to Vince, but to compare their situations. My point was that even the greatest QBs of all time struggled when they had their respective teams thrown on them during their rookie seasons. That's not to say that Vince will finish his career at their level, but it does demonstrate the blind foolishness behind basing long term opinions on rookie year performances. On those grounds, my comparison was outstanding and the facts presented are undeniable.

[BlackandRed05]

Why? That doesn't make any sense. Romo was an undrafted QB that had been in the league for over a year before taking his first snap. Vince was a top draft pick who started most of his rookie season. Hence the reason I compared Vince to other top draft picks that started their rookie seasons. I see little basis for a comparison between Romo and Vince.

I picked Elway, Aikman, Simms, etc., not to compare them to Vince, but to compare their situations. My point was that even the greatest QBs of all time struggled when they had their respective teams thrown on them during their rookie seasons. That's not to say that Vince will finish his career at their level, but it does demonstrate the blind foolishness behind basing long term opinions on rookie year performances. On those grounds, my comparison was outstanding and the facts presented are undeniable.

Ok, I will give you that, only if we are looking at long term predictions. But we arent in this thread. Based on what Vince has to work with this season, he's not gonna make the playoffs. IMO

[K-Rock]

Why? That doesn't make any sense. Romo was an undrafted QB that had been in the league for over a year before taking his first snap. Vince was a top draft pick who started most of his rookie season. Hence the reason I compared Vince to other top draft picks that started their rookie seasons. I see little basis for a comparison between Romo and Vince.

I picked Elway, Aikman, Simms, etc., not to compare them to Vince, but to compare their situations. My point was that even the greatest QBs of all time struggled when they had their respective teams thrown on them during their rookie seasons. That's not to say that Vince will finish his career at their level, but it does demonstrate the blind foolishness behind basing long term opinions on rookie year performances. On those grounds, my comparison was outstanding and the facts presented are undeniable.

You picked QBs that finished strong, but why not some QBs like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch. They got thrown in their rookie year, had bad years, and never did anything. What if VY is like them?

[twcpfan1]

The only QB's you can compare VY to are Vick and maybe Rich Gannon. Comparing him to the likes of Aikman, Elway, Manning and Bradshaw is just looking at the world through burnt orange colored glasses. I mean at some point, you guys are going to need to come down from the cloud the 05 NC propelled you to. It's over.

[jtk1519]

You picked QBs that finished strong, but why not some QBs like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch. They got thrown in their rookie year, had bad years, and never did anything. What if VY is like them?

If you go back and read what I said, you will noticed that I never offered my opinion as to how Vince would actually do during his career. He could go either way, but that was not my point. As I said, my point was to demonstrate that it is possible to play for a bad team and put up bad number during your rookie season and early in your career, and still go on to be one of the all-time greats.

[jtk1519]

The only QB's you can compare VY to are Vick and maybe Rich Gannon. Comparing him to the likes of Aikman, Elway, Manning and Bradshaw is just looking at the world through burnt orange colored glasses. I mean at some point, you guys are going to need to come down from the cloud the 05 NC propelled you to. It's over.

Rich Gannon?! The same Rich Gannon that threw a whopping 9 passes during his first two seasons?! Did you bother to ready anything I said?

[jtk1519]

Ok, I will give you that, only if we are looking at long term predictions. But we arent in this thread. Based on what Vince has to work with this season, he's not gonna make the playoffs. IMO

Somebody else seemed to take it beyond this season (albeit briefly)...

However, I don't think he will be great in the NFL. His passing skills are not pro level IMO.

That was a decidedly "long-term" sounding opinion and it was to that which I was responding. Nothing more.

[twcpfan1]

Rich Gannon?! The same Rich Gannon that threw a whopping 9 passes during his first two seasons?! Did you bother to ready anything I said?

I was mainly talking about the type of QB's both are. And that there are limitations to the amount of success these guys can have in the NFL. But since you brought it up, Gannon went to a Superbowl. Vince may not have the tools to be that successful at this level. Pure speculation of course.

[yankee]

i'm going with a sophomore slump in vince's case...

[jtk1519]

I was mainly talking about the type of QB's both are. And that there are limitations to the amount of success these guys can have in the NFL. But since you brought it up, Gannon went to a Superbowl. Vince may not have the tools to be that successful at this level. Pure speculation of course.

My basis for comparison was situation (starting rookie seasons for bad teams), not style of play. Style of play is almost irrelevant. But if you do want to go style of play, that's fine too. You offer up Mike Vick, I'll offer up Steve Young. You say Rich Gannon, I'll say Randall Cunningham. Vince could go either way... there is precedent for both.

[Crank_It]

My basis for comparison was situation (starting rookie seasons for bad teams), not style of play. Style of play is almost irrelevant. But if you do want to go style of play, that's fine too. You offer up Mike Vick, I'll offer up Steve Young. You say Rich Gannon, I'll say Randall Cunningham. Vince could go either way... there is precedent for both.

theres no point in arguing jtk, they see thru maroon (be it aggy or blowU) colored glasses. He will be able to do great things at the next level but tennessee has got to surround him with some talent and i didnt see the necessary moves this offseason to do so. vince can handle unbelievable proportions with his talents and decision-making alone but at some point he needs people throwto and time will only tell if the administration decides to tap into the diamond in the rough they drafted.

[K-Rock]

Comparing Young to Rich Gannon! LOL! That is stupid!

In 2002 Gannon had 67.6 completion %, 4689 yards, 26 TD to 10 INTs, and 156 yards rushing.

Gannon had only one year where he rushed for over 500 yards. That was in 2000.

Young rushed for over 500 yards last year and averaged 1,000 yards per season at UT. He had only 1 year where he threw for 3,000 yards.

Do you really think Vince will have the passing stats Gannon had with Oakland?

[jtk1519]

Comparing Young to Rich Gannon! LOL! That is stupid!

In 2002 Gannon had 67.6 completion %, 4689 yards, 26 TD to 10 INTs, and 156 yards rushing.

Gannon had only one year where he rushed for over 500 yards. That was in 2000.

Young rushed for over 500 yards last year and averaged 1,000 yards per season at UT. He had only 1 year where he threw for 3,000 yards.

Do you really think Vince will have the passing stats Gannon had with Oakland?

This is a case where you have to dig a little deeper into the numbers. In 2002, Gannon threw the ball 618 times for 4689 yards (7.6 ypa) and 26 TDs (1 TD for every 23.8 pass attempts). Vince's best passing season was '05 when he threw the ball 325 times for 3036 yards (9.3 ypa) and 26 TDs (1 TD for every 12.5 pass attempts).

So based on that, could Vince duplicate or better Gannon's numbers... absolutely. Using his '05 numbers, it just means he would have to throw the ball about 505 times (not a lot of attempts by NFL standards). If he did that and the averages remained constant, Vince would complete 65.2% of those 505 passes for 4697 yards and about 40 TDs.

Now, transposing college numbers to the NFL is unrealistic. What's realistic early in Vince's NFL career is a 58% completion, 7.0 ypa average and 1 TD for every 20 attempts. Those are fairly decent averages. If Vince could average those numbers (which isn't all that far from what he did last year) and throw the ball as many times as Gannon did in '02, Vince would complete 58% of 618 passes for 4326 yards and 31 TDs.

Even more realistic though would be about 500 pass attempts in 16 games (about 31 a game). Using those same averages, Vince could expect to complete 58% of 500 passes for 3500 yards and 25 TDs.

Of course, that is all just speculation, but it is a pretty realistic look at the numbers and how they could evolve under certain situations.

[K-Rock]

This is a case where you have to dig a little deeper into the numbers. In 2002, Gannon threw the ball 618 times for 4689 yards (7.6 ypa) and 26 TDs (1 TD for every 23.8 pass attempts). Vince's best passing season was '05 when he threw the ball 325 times for 3036 yards (9.3 ypa) and 26 TDs (1 TD for every 12.5 pass attempts).

So based on that, could Vince duplicate or better Gannon's numbers... absolutely. Using his '05 numbers, it just means he would have to throw the ball about 505 times (not a lot of attempts by NFL standards). If he did that and the averages remained constant, Vince would complete 65.2% of those 505 passes for 4697 yards and about 40 TDs.

Now, transposing college numbers to the NFL is unrealistic. What's realistic early in Vince's NFL career is a 58% completion, 7.0 ypa average and 1 TD for every 20 attempts. Those are fairly decent averages. If Vince could average those numbers (which isn't all that far from what he did last year) and throw the ball as many times as Gannon did in '02, Vince would complete 58% of 618 passes for 4326 yards and 31 TDs.

Even more realistic though would be about 500 pass attempts in 16 games (about 31 a game). Using those same averages, Vince could expect to complete 58% of 500 passes for 3500 yards and 25 TDs.

Of course, that is all just speculation, but it is a pretty realistic look at the numbers and how they could evolve under certain situations.

Only thing you left out was the number of INT Young threw last year. Gannon only had 10 in 618 passes thrown.

Vince had 13 in 357 passes thrown. That is one out of every 27 being picked. If he threw 618 times, that would give him 23 INT. Do you really think he would have the possesions to throw the ball that many times with 1 out of 27 passes being INT?

Also, according to Yahoo Stats, Young was not 58%. He was 184 out of 357 or 51.5%. They have him for 6.2 Y/A, not 7.

[jtk1519]

Only thing you left out was the number of INT Young threw last year. Gannon only had 10 in 618 passes thrown.

Vince had 13 in 357 passes thrown. That is one out of every 27 being picked. If he threw 618 times, that would give him 23 INT. Do you really think he would have the possesions to throw the ball that many times with 1 out of 27 passes being INT?

Also, according to Yahoo Stats, Young was not 58%. He was 184 out of 357 or 51.5%. They have him for 6.2 Y/A, not 7.

I didn't say those were his averages last year, I said those were reasonable averages to expect from Vince over the next couple of years.

As for the INTs, I really don't care about them so long as the TD to INT ratio is 1.5/1 or better. It was 2.6/1 in '05 and I expect that ratio to be about 1.5/1 in the next year or two. I was actually surprised he didn't throw more this past season. he threw an INT about ever 32 pass attempts in '05 so 1 out of every 27 is not bad when you consider that he was a rookie starting for a bad team with terrible receivers. Consider that Brett Favre for his career has thrown an INT about over 30 attempts. Aikman threw one about every 32 attempts as did Elway. You'll take INTs if they are negated by scores. Vince may have thrown 13 INTs, but he only lost 3 fumbles so the turnovers equal 16 compared to 19 scores. For a rookie on a bad team, I will take that in a heartbeat.

[Texasfrog]

This is going to be a big year (IMO) on if Vince Young steps up into one of the better overall NFL QB's (Top #10) or remains the same and even takes a step back.

I know the Titans havent helped him much or so it seems on the surface with the overall team talent level. Young doesnt have an elite WR's core to throw to. Although I think a couple of the WR's they have can be very good if they can only remain healthy most of the year. I think B.Jones has elite NFL WR's skills and I hope D.Givens can make it back 100%.

As far as the Titans making the playoffs. I havent really looked at their schedule much but on the surface I think it will be tough for them to make the playoffs this year. But, who really knows.

I hope Vince Young does well. I'm a big fan no doubt. But, I also think even with all of Vince Young's God-Given talent he still has a lot to learn before being a complete NFL QB. He is going to have to work to become a more polished passer. He still has a very uncanny delivery with one of the slower releases in the NFL. He still needs to work on accuracy & getting his interceptions down.

Hey, when things "break down" there probably isnt a better QB in the NFL for moving around and making plays with his feet (along with M.Vick).

But being the complete package and standing in the pocket and finding those WR's and looking for the 2nd & 3rd progression and hitting those dudes in stride 20 & 30 yards down the field. Vince Young still needs to work on that. That's why I say this season will be a big season on if Vince Young is going to step up and really become one of the NFL elite QB's (Top #10) or remain in the NFL ( middle ground QB's).

I'll be rooting for him and I think he can do it. This season is going to be fun to watch him and see how he does.

[t-long20]

No need to try and explain. Some UT fans on this board would get on their kness to sniff Young's farts.

Comparing Young to Manning or Elway is crazy.

and some haters will stop at nothing untill there proven wrong again, dude your crazy if you think VY will not be a great qb in the future he has proven time and time again that he will a great qb(see national championship and last couple of games when he led his teams to wins) think donovan mcnabb except alot faster.but your an oakland fan so i understand thinking positive maybe something hard for you to do. in fact if vince young ended up in oakland somehow, i think you would have a serious case of homerism

[svhorns]

He throws the ball funny... thats what they're basing their opinions on... how many rookies have made it to the pro-bowl their rookie season... someone tell me how Troy Aikman did his rookie season... or John Elway.... or Brett Farve... Peyton too... wait JTK already did that...

K-Rock = Skip Gayless
Black and Red = Merrill Hodge Podge

sports isn't yall's cup of tea

[KT2000]

Did I see Rich Gannon and Vince Young in the same sentence?

I've seen a lot of strange things on this board, but that literally flabbergasts me.

[BlackandRed05]

He throws the ball funny... thats what they're basing their opinions on... how many rookies have made it to the pro-bowl their rookie season... someone tell me how Troy Aikman did his rookie season... or John Elway.... or Brett Farve... Peyton too... wait JTK already did that...

K-Rock = Skip Gayless
Black and Red = Merrill Hodge Podge

sports isn't yall's cup of tea

No ....being a HOMER like most of you isnt my cup of tea. Vince is a great QB but he has alot to learn before he can be mentioned along with Manning, Brady , Elway, or even Simms.
Do you even consider that someone like Vick or McNabb have never won a Superbowl?

[Texasfrog]

He throws the ball funny... thats what they're basing their opinions on... how many rookies have made it to the pro-bowl their rookie season... someone tell me how Troy Aikman did his rookie season... or John Elway.... or Brett Farve... Peyton too... wait JTK already did that...

K-Rock = Skip Gayless
Black and Red = Merrill Hodge Podge

sports isn't yall's cup of tea

Not too knock Vince Young's Pro Bowl. But, he got picked for it after about 2or 3 other AFC QB's couldnt play in it.

I think it's great that he made the Pro Bowl. I'm a big Vince Young fan and hope that he has many "GREAT" NFL years and wins a few Super Bowls.

I'll still say that he needs to work even harder to take his game to a higher level. This will be a big year (IMO) on if Vince Young takes a big step forward as an NFL QB or basically reach the top where he is now.

The 2nd Years for many NFL players (especially QB's) has been the "Make or Break" years. I'm pulling for him all the way.;)

[svhorns]

No ....being a HOMER like most of you isnt my cup of tea. Vince is a great QB but he has alot to learn before he can be mentioned along with Manning, Brady , Elway, or even Simms.
Do you even consider that someone like Vick or McNabb have never won a Superbowl?

Steve Young did... I think hes more like him

[KT2000]

I think VY will only improve as he continues to refine his game. He is nowhere near as good as he can be in my opinion. I think that's a big reason why he was drafted as high as he was.

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. As someone who's watched Vince Young develop since his sophomore year of high school, what makes him special are the intangible qualities. He is a natural born leader. When you couple those qualities with the physical things everyone can see, then you see why some compare him to the game's elite.

Personally, I think VY has the potential to be as good as John Elway. That's the only fitting comparison I can find for Vince as far as the type of player he most resembles.

Much of his success will depend on the Titans and who they surround him with. Obviously, no single player can win championships without a little help.

In the eight years I've been watching Vince Young play football, I've not seen him regress from one year to the next or even stay the same. He's only improved, and I expect no less of him in the NFL.

[Texasfrog]

If there was a NFL QB from the last 15 or so years that I would compare Vince Young with. It would be Randall Cunningham for the most part.

Cunningham made many of his plays while roaming around the backfield and buying time for himself with his feet. I think Vince Young will be just like that. Never really a pure pocket passer but a QB that can by that extra second by moving around and feeling the pocket and slipping into the open area and firing a pass downfield.

I would say that Vince Young is a better runner than Cunningham but that Cunningham is a better passer. But, overall I think both of them are very similiar in many ways.

John Elways passing mechanics were almost flawless since High school until his last day in the NFL. He was like the "Text Book" picture of what a QB is suppose too be. I still think he might be the best overall and to think he never took Stanford to a Bowl game.:confused: I remember when Elway was drafted out of Stanford and a NFL Scout said, "Elway was the type of player that could take his team to the Super Bowl many times in his career." Well, that was one Scout that hit it on the money. I know Elway won Two Super Bowls but he took Denver to like 3 or 4 others.

I also agree with you about Vince Young getting better every year. My first time to see him was against Katy (Astrodome) his Junior year and my second time to see him was against North Shore (Astrodome) his Senior year and he was must impoved in those 365 days. He tore up a very athletic North Shore defense like they werent even on the field.

Then every year at Texas he did nothing but get better with his overall game.

I still think this season will be very interesting in seeing how more advanced Vince Young has become as a passer. The NFL passing game is tough and that is one area where Vince Young (IMO) is really going to have to improve his game. His athletic and physical skills cant be questioned by anyone..There already some of the best ever seen in the NFL by a QB.

[SLC93]

I sincerely hope that the efforts the Titans made this offseason are not going to be the norm during the Vince era. After an offseason that included absolutely no forward movement, anything the Titans accomplish this season will be a result of nothing more than Young's effort & Fischer's coaching.

[twcpfan1]

Did I see Rich Gannon and Vince Young in the same sentence?

I've seen a lot of strange things on this board, but that literally flabbergasts me.


Well we just never know, do we. The comparisons to Gannon is probably about as conceivable as what many Burnt Orange fans have said or implied on this board. That he will achieve God Like status in the NFL like he did in his last year in College. He may. But then again he could also end up being Rick Mirer or Ryan Leaf.

The Cunningham comparison is a very good one, I think. But Randall throws a much better ball.

[KT2000]

How many championships did Cunningham win as a player (college or pro)? From a purely physical point of view, that's probably a good comparison.

I compare Vince to Elway more because of the intangible side of the game. He elevates those around him and does not shy away from clutch moments (that's why VY will be 10x the player Vick is or will ever be). I also think Vince has a much better arm than people realize.

I always laugh when people talk about players like Terrelle Pryor as being the next "Vince Young". It's takes a lot more than just being physically gifted to be anywhere near VY's level.

[BlackandRed05]

I just believe that everyone is giving him too much credit too quick. But until the Titans surround him with a decent running game and good WR's, he will just be another Vick, Cunningham, or any other QB that plays that style.

[Texasfrog]

How many championships did Cunningham win as a player (college or pro)? From a purely physical point of view, that's probably a good comparison.

I compare Vince to Elway more because of the intangible side of the game. He elevates those around him and does not shy away from clutch moments (that's why VY will be 10x the player Vick is or will ever be). I also think Vince has a much better arm than people realize.

I always laugh when people talk about players like Terrelle Pryor as being the next "Vince Young". It's takes a lot more than just being physically gifted to be anywhere near VY's level.

Cunningham never won a National Title or Super Bowl. I do think he won a few Bowl Games while at UNLV and he did take Philly into many playoffs. He just never could close the deal but neither could Dan Marino.

I'm mostly talking about their (Cunningham and Young's) physical skills. They remind me some of each other. I do think Young is a better runner and Cunningham is the better passer but overall their physical skill are pretty close in their games.

Remember that John Elway never took Stanford to a Bowl game either yet he could raise everyone's games around him. It just didnt happen in college for John Elway with the team overall success. Yet, he was still one of the best college QB's playing the game at Stanford and could be argued one of the top #3 QB's to ever play the NFL game.

But, I do think Young and Elway do have the ability of Leadership and to get the most out of their players and raise the "teams caliber of play" because of the Leadership example they set. They also display a very cocky confidence that clearly says, "We will get this done one way or the other."

I remember watching a documentary on Joe Montana and they were talking to one of the players about him. I think it was Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice was talking about how there was like 1 minute left in the Super Bowl and San Fran had to get down the field and score a touchdown to win. They start the drive and get down to like the 50 yard-line and there is like 50 seconds left and San Fran calls a TO. Their in the huddle and everyone is kind of looking at Joe Montana and trying to feed off of his leadership and confidence and Joe Montana standing there being all calm and cool looks to everyone in the huddle and says , "Hey, look up in the stands above the 45 yardline... there is John Candy."

Now, I dont know about you. But too me that is some crazy cocky SMOOTH confidence "BIG TIME" when a QB (Joe Montana) is that cool under that kind of pressure (Super Bowl winning touchdown drive with little time left). That is almost scary calm , cool and collected.

[KT2000]

I'd never heard that story before. That's great. Jerry Rice is another one of my all-time favorites.

[whs08]

VY is great at making plays. He is in the same mold as Mike Vick. VY will go down in history as one of the greatest college QBs ever.

However, I don't think he will be great in the NFL. His passing skills are not pro level IMO. He finished with a 66.7 QB rating, was only 50% in accuracy, and threw more INTs than TDs. He will make some plays just like he did last year(He got the ROY and still could not get the Titans into the playoffs.), but that will not be enough to carry this team.

Plus teams have more film to study. They have seen him in the Titans offense and have had the entire offseason to look for ways to exploit weaknesses. A lack of talent at WR will hurt as well. If teams can use single coverage they will be able to stack the line and shade Young. If Young can't throw the ball he will run more, which will up the chances of him getting hurt.

I am not a hater, but I do not have man love for him like a lot of UT fans either.

Saying that us UT fans don't have respect, for a guy that finally won a national championship for Texas, in 37 years ,is BS! Don't think he will be good in the NFL? He already is good in the NFL. I guess winning the Rookie of the year award is'nt good anoth for you! Went from having the team being 0-4, to 8-8 is'nt good for you. So what if he didn't get the playoffs, does that make him a bad player?If I remember correctly they had to win against a very god New England team! Plus more teams have film to study, that won't do jack. Hes also has'nt played a full season as starter, so don't count him out! You sound a lot like Merrel Hoge IMHO!

[K-Rock]

Wow. Funny how you guys resort to name calling when you are challenged by facts. Being a Raiders fan has nothing to do with my views of Vince Young.

His stats speak for themselves. He threw more INTs than TDs last season (12 TDs to 13 INTs). He had a 51% completion percentage and he averaged under 200 yards a game passing. This does not scream top rated NFL QB to me.

[svhorns]

Wow. Funny how you guys resort to name calling when you are challenged by facts. Being a Raiders fan has nothing to do with my views of Vince Young.

His stats speak for themselves. He threw more INTs than TDs last season (12 TDs to 13 INTs). He had a 51% completion percentage and he averaged under 200 yards a game passing. This does not scream top rated NFL QB to me.
but still ended up 8-4.... as a rookie... you can look at the stats all you want... but everyone else minus you and Merrel Hoge Podge know that VY is a winner...

[BlackandRed05]

Saying that us UT fans don't have respect, for a guy that finally won a national championship for Texas, in 37 years ,is BS! Don't think he will be good in the NFL? He already is good in the NFL. I guess winning the Rookie of the year award is'nt good anoth for you! Went from having the team being 0-4, to 8-8 is'nt good for you. So what if he didn't get the playoffs, does that make him a bad player?If I remember correctly they had to win against a very god New England team! Plus more teams have film to study, that won't do jack. Hes also has'nt played a full season as starter, so don't count him out! You sound a lot like Merrel Hoge IMHO!

Would all of you please quit bringing up the 05 NC as a basis for your arguement. ? That holds no water here.

[whs08]

Wow. Funny how you guys resort to name calling when you are challenged by facts. Being a Raiders fan has nothing to do with my views of Vince Young.

His stats speak for themselves. He threw more INTs than TDs last season (12 TDs to 13 INTs). He had a 51% completion percentage and he averaged under 200 yards a game passing. This does not scream top rated NFL QB to me.

How do you think Jamarcus Russel is going to do his Rookie Season?:cool:

[svhorns]

Would all of you please quit bringing up the 05 NC as a basis for your arguement. ? That holds no water here.

Yes it does... he wins ball games... would you rather have awesome stats or win games... the stats will come for VY as he gets older... but he always gets the wins...

[K-Rock]

Saying that us UT fans don't have respect, for a guy that finally won a national championship for Texas, in 37 years ,is BS! Don't think he will be good in the NFL? He already is good in the NFL. I guess winning the Rookie of the year award is'nt good anoth for you! Went from having the team being 0-4, to 8-8 is'nt good for you. So what if he didn't get the playoffs, does that make him a bad player?If I remember correctly they had to win against a very god New England team! Plus more teams have film to study, that won't do jack. Hes also has'nt played a full season as starter, so don't count him out! You sound a lot like Merrel Hoge IMHO!

You mean the 40-23 loss to New England in the last game of the season?

Studing film doesn't do jack huh? They just show up and play huh? They don't study film or look at tendencies or weaknesses?

Defenses will be able load up on Vince. They don't have anyone else as a threat.

I just don't think Vince is good enough to carry the team.

[whs08]

Would all of you please quit bringing up the 05 NC as a basis for your arguement. ? That holds no water here.

Sorry if that offends you. And, yes it does hold up as a arguement. Thats why theres an NFL,and college part of this board. Would you like to disagree with that last sentence of mine?

[whs08]

You mean the 40-23 loss to New England in the last game of the season?

Studing film doesn't do jack huh? They just show up and play huh? They don't study film or look at tendencies or weaknesses?

Defenses will be able load up on Vince. They don't have anyone else as a threat.

I just don't think Vince is good enough to carry the team.

He was good anough to carry is team to win a national championship. Sorry if that offends anyone;)

[K-Rock]

How do you think Jamarcus Russel is going to do his Rookie Season?:cool:

I don't know. Start a thread and we will discuss it. That has nothing to do with Vince or the Titans making the playoffs.

Trying to turn this into a Russell discussion is just a way to deflect the facts about Young.

Russell doesn't have any NFL stats. Young does, and that is what I am basing my opinions on. The rest is just speculation.

[whs08]

Yes it does... he wins ball games... would you rather have awesome stats or win games... the stats will come for VY as he gets older... but he always gets the wins...
Thank you. At least theres somebody besides me, that nows VY is good!:cool:

[BlackandRed05]

Yes it does... he wins ball games... would you rather have awesome stats or win games... the stats will come for VY as he gets older... but he always gets the wins...

Then name me 1 successful NFL QB that won in an NCAA championship in the last 7 yrs. It doesnt translate to success in the NFL.

[K-Rock]

He was good anough to carry is team to win a national championship. Sorry if that offends anyone;)

College is not the NFL

[whs08]

I don't know. Start a thread and we will discuss it. That has nothing to do with Vince or the Titans making the playoffs.

Trying to turn this into a Russell discussion is just a way to deflect the facts about Young.

Russell doesn't have any NFL stats. Young does, and that is what I am basing my opinions on. The rest is just speculation.

Well ar'nt you an Oakland fan? Deflects the facts about young. So what are the facts? That we all can tell that you are an hater!

[K-Rock]

Then name me 1 successful NFL QB that won in an NCAA championship in the last 7 yrs. It doesnt translate to success in the NFL.

It might for Matt Lienart, but he is a pure pocket passer out of a pro-style offense.

[K-Rock]

Well ar'nt you an Oakland fan?

Yeah. I have been an Oakland/LA fan since I was 11 years old. Howie Long was my favorite player.

What does that have to do with Vince Young or the Titans making the playoffs?

[svhorns]

I don't know. Start a thread and we will discuss it. That has nothing to do with Vince or the Titans making the playoffs.

Trying to turn this into a Russell discussion is just a way to deflect the facts about Young.

Russell doesn't have any NFL stats. Young does, and that is what I am basing my opinions on. The rest is just speculation.

Your opinion is based on a year of play in the NFL... so you argument makes no sense what so ever... we are going on what he has done in the past... which is what normal people usually do to get a grasp on how a player might do in the future... VY has won all his life... why all of a sudden would he just be terrible... and not carry his team anywhere... do some research or some studying or something... because all your doing is this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pAs6TDLuKgQ

[BlackandRed05]

Sorry if that offends you. And, yes it does hold up as a arguement. Thats why theres an NFL,and college part of this board. Would you like to disagree with that last sentence of mine?

Then name me 1 successful NFL QB that won in an NCAA championship in the last 7 yrs. It doesnt translate to success in the NFL.

[K-Rock]

Well ar'nt you an Oakland fan? Deflects the facts about young. So what are the facts? That we all can tell that you are an hater!

A hater? Have you read my post?

Vince Young will go down in history as one of the greatest COLLEGE QBs to play NCAA football. He was great for the state of Texas and Big XII football.

I just don't think his style of game transfers well to the NFL. Running QBs have not won a Superbowl.

[BlackandRed05]

It might for Matt Lienart, but he is a pure pocket passer out of a pro-style offense.

Maybe so, but even he needs a supporting cast.

[K-Rock]

Your opinion is based on a year of play in the NFL... so you argument makes no sense what so ever... we are going on what he has done in the past... which is what normal people usually do to get a grasp on how a player might do in the future... VY has won all his life... why all of a sudden would he just be terrible... and not carry his team anywhere... do some research or some studying or something... because all your doing is this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pAs6TDLuKgQ


Akili Smith had great stats in college. Where is he? Ryan Leaf had great stats in college. Where is he?

Many top rated college QBs coming into the NFL have not panned out. Study that.

[svhorns]

Maybe so, but even he needs a supporting cast.

he needs an o-line... his supporting cast is pretty outstanding

[svhorns]

Akili Smith had great stats in college. Where is he? Ryan Leaf had great stats in college. Where is he?

Many top rated college QBs coming into the NFL have not panned out. Study that.

take a look at their records... and tell me if they went... what is it... 30-2 in college... how many games did VY lose in highschool 2 or 3... now compare it to what Leaf and Akili did in highschool and college... do they have any NC's under their belt... or just good stats... you keep using the words stats but keep ignoring the word WINS...

[BlackandRed05]

K-Rock, no one will give me a name of 1 successful QB in the league that won an NCAA championship from the past 7 yrs. Can you?

[whs08]

Yeah. I have been an Oakland/LA fan since I was 11 years old. Howie Long was my favorite player.

What does that have to do with Vince Young or the Titans making the playoffs?

Just a ? You don't have to get angry!:cool:

[svhorns]

K-Rock, no one will give me a name of 1 successful QB in the league that won an NCAA championship from the past 7 yrs. Can you?

Name a QB thats been as good as VY in college ever...

[Texasfrog]

Then name me 1 successful NFL QB that won in an NCAA championship in the last 7 yrs. It doesnt translate to success in the NFL.

Palmer is pretty successful in the NFL and he won a NCAA title. I guess it was a co-title to be correct.

I think Lienart will be pretty successful in the the NFL.

But again, Manning, Elway, Marino, Favre , Brady , Brees, McNair, Vick didnt win title in College either. Some of them were on pretty darn good College teams but they didnt win it.

Elway never went to a College bowl game but he won two Super Bowls and went to like 3 or 4 others. The last college game I saw Marino play in was the Cotton Bowl against SMU and SMU beat him (Eric Dickerson & Craig James).

In fact there has been more college QB wins NCAA Titles in the last 15 years that have fallen flat on their face in the NFL. Heck, some of those dudes even won Heisman trophies.

It's two different games (NCAA & NFL). Vince Young has a shot to be great in the NFL. I just dont think he is there yet. I do think he has a ways to go with his overall passing game. I mean he had a like 3 games last year (ie. Rookie year) where he was just awful throwing the football. He had a couple of games where he was like (3-20) with a couple of picks. He has the God Given ability he just needs to refine his passing skills. On the bright side, he has one of the best QB-coaches and OC in the game (Norm Chow) so if anyone can get Vince Young's passing gmae up to elite status I would say he can.

[whs08]

College is not the NFL

So VY is'nt capable of a winning a superbowl? Because thats what it sounds like!

[K-Rock]

So VY is'nt capable of a winning a superbowl? Because thats what it sounds like!

Maybe in the way The Bucs did in 2002 or the Ravens did before that. Vince needs help around him. He will need a great D and a great running game.

Will he be able to do it in the mold of Brady or Manning? Not in my opinion.

[BlackandRed05]

Palmer is pretty successful in the NFL and he won a NCAA title. I guess it was a co-title to be correct.

I think Lienart will be pretty successful in the the NFL.

But again, Manning, Elway, Marino, Favre , Brady , Brees, McNair, Vick didnt win title in College either. Some of them were on pretty darn good College teams but they didnt win it.

Elway never went to a College bowl game but he won two Super Bowls and went to like 3 or 4 others. The last college game I saw Marino play in was the Cotton Bowl against SMU and SMU beat him (Eric Dickerson & Craig James).

In fact there has been more college QB wins NCAA Titles in the last 15 years that have fallen flat on their face in the NFL. Heck, some of those dudes even won Heisman trophies.

It's two different games (NCAA & NFL). Vince Young has a shot to be great in the NFL. I just dont think he is there yet. I do think he has a ways to go with his overall passing game. I mean he had a like 3 games last year (ie. Rookie year) where he was just awful throwing the football. He had a couple of games where he was like (3-20) with a couple of picks. He has the God Given ability he just needs to refine his passing skills. On the bright side, he has one of the best QB-coaches and OC in the game (Norm Chow) so if anyone can get Vince Young's passing gmae up to elite status I would say he can.

Good post TexasFrog. These other 2 guys know this but just wont admit it.

[svhorns]

Palmer is pretty successful in the NFL and he won a NCAA title. I guess it was a co-title to be correct.

I think Lienart will be pretty successful in the the NFL.

But again, Manning, Elway, Marino, Favre , Brady , Brees, McNair, Vick didnt win title in College either. Some of them were on pretty darn good College teams but they didnt win it.

Elway never went to a College bowl game but he won two Super Bowls and went to like 3 or 4 others. The last college game I saw Marino play in was the Cotton Bowl against SMU and SMU beat him (Eric Dickerson & Craig James).

In fact there has been more college QB wins NCAA Titles in the last 15 years that have fallen flat on their face in the NFL. Heck, some of those dudes even won Heisman trophies.

It's two different games (NCAA & NFL). Vince Young has a shot to be great in the NFL. I just dont think he is there yet. I do think he has a ways to go with his overall passing game. I mean he had a like 3 games last year (ie. Rookie year) where he was just awful throwing the football. He had a couple of games where he was like (3-20) with a couple of picks. He has the God Given ability he just needs to refine his passing skills. On the bright side, he has one of the best QB-coaches and OC in the game (Norm Chow) so if anyone can get Vince Young's passing gmae up to elite status I would say he can.

Like I said... VY's stats will come with time and coaching... but he still pulled out an 8-4 record his rookie season with absolutely no one on his team...the man WINS ball games.. what happens when VY gets older and smarter and his stats start to become jaw dropping...?? its over for the NFL

[BlackandRed05]

Name a QB thats been as good as VY in college ever...

Matt Leinart:

Leinart finished his college career 807/1245 (64.8%) for 10,693 yards and 99 touchdowns with just 23 interceptions. He is USC's all-time leader in career touchdown passes and completion percentage, and is second at USC behind Palmer in completions and yardage. He averaged nearly 8.6 yards per attempt, and averaged only one interception every 54 attempts. He was 37-2 as a starter.

Vince Young:
Young ends his illustrious career at Texas as the all-time leader in total offense (9,167 yards), career touchdowns (81) and career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (37), while compiling a school-best 30-2 record.

[svhorns]

Matt Leinart:

Leinart finished his college career 807/1245 (64.8%) for 10,693 yards and 99 touchdowns with just 23 interceptions. He is USC's all-time leader in career touchdown passes and completion percentage, and is second at USC behind Palmer in completions and yardage. He averaged nearly 8.6 yards per attempt, and averaged only one interception every 54 attempts. He was 37-2 as a starter.

there you go with the stats again... who won the game when the two played...? and you cant use the people around him excuse... Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Steve Smith, DeWayne Jarrett, outstanding offensive line...

VY won the game... and isn't that what matters... or wait is it stats.. :rolleyes:

[jtk1519]

Wow. Funny how you guys resort to name calling when you are challenged by facts. Being a Raiders fan has nothing to do with my views of Vince Young.

His stats speak for themselves. He threw more INTs than TDs last season (12 TDs to 13 INTs). He had a 51% completion percentage and he averaged under 200 yards a game passing. This does not scream top rated NFL QB to me.

And those numbers are actually decent by rookie QB standards and better than many of the all-time greats. Funny how some people can't keep things in perspective.

[BlackandRed05]

there you go with the stats again... who won the game when the two played...? and you cant use the people around him excuse... Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Steve Smith, DeWayne Jarrett, outstanding offensive line...

VY won the game... and isn't that what matters... or wait is it stats.. :rolleyes:

You asked a question that required facts, not a homer opinion.:D

[K-Rock]

there you go with the stats again... who won the game when the two played...? and you cant use the people around him excuse... Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Steve Smith, DeWayne Jarrett, outstanding offensive line...

VY won the game... and isn't that what matters... or wait is it stats.. :rolleyes:

Not in the NFL

[jtk1519]

K-Rock, no one will give me a name of 1 successful QB in the league that won an NCAA championship from the past 7 yrs. Can you?

What does that have to do with anything? If you guys are so sure that college doesn't translate to the NFL, then the question you are asking is pointless. All an NCAA championship is a reflection of is the quality of the team that won the title. To try and say this player will or will not do such and such because he won an NCAA title is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

[svhorns]

Not in the NFL

so wins dont matter in the NFL... this is pointless

[K-Rock]

so wins dont matter in the NFL... this is pointless

I agree

[BlackandRed05]

What does that have to do with anything? If you guys are so sure that college doesn't translate to the NFL, then the question you are asking is pointless. All an NCAA championship is a reflection of is the quality of the team that won the title. To try and say this player will or will not do such and such because he won an NCAA title is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

History proves that fact.

[jtk1519]

History proves that fact.

History proves what fact? There is one title awarded each year, but there are 32 starting QBs. Of course most haven't won championships... it's a mathematical impossibility.

However, Tom Brady was on a national championship team as were Carson Palmer (if you recognize the split title in '03), Joe Montana, Mark Brunell, Joe Namath, etc. There is absolutely no historical evidence supporting the claim that QBs who are on national championship team cannot make it in the NFL. Such a claim, aside from being rather pointless, is quite stupid.

[yankee]

there you go with the stats again... who won the game when the two played...? and you cant use the people around him excuse... Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Steve Smith, DeWayne Jarrett, outstanding offensive line...

VY won the game... and isn't that what matters... or wait is it stats.. :rolleyes:

both had one national championship...leinart had the better stats... and stats don't lie. you asked who had a great as career as vy did...leinart IMO had a better one...

[K-Rock]

both had one national championship...leinart had the better stats... and stats don't lie. you asked who had a great as career as vy did...leinart IMO had a better one...


I thought Leinart had 2 NC.

[yankee]

What does that have to do with anything? If you guys are so sure that college doesn't translate to the NFL, then the question you are asking is pointless. All an NCAA championship is a reflection of is the quality of the team that won the title. To try and say this player will or will not do such and such because he won an NCAA title is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

then is it not pointless when a tu fan uses the 05 nc game as a basis for vy? he was on an outstanding team..to say that he will continue to be a winner is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

[yankee]

I thought Leinart had 2 NC.

he went to 2...whipped ou and then lost to tu....

[whs08]

A hater? Have you read my post?

Vince Young will go down in history as one of the greatest COLLEGE QBs to play NCAA football. He was great for the state of Texas and Big XII football.

I just don't think his style of game transfers well to the NFL. Running QBs have not won a Superbowl.

Yeah I've read your post! But you are sounding like a hater! Also hes not really as much a running Qb like Vick. Vince can pass! Maybe you should look at his highlights from college. Or the pass to Limas Sweed in the Ohio state game!:cool:

[K-Rock]

he went to 2...whipped ou and then lost to tu....

Oh yeah. I forgot they got screwed in 2003. They were AP National Champs that year.

BCS NC in 2004.

[whs08]

then is it not pointless when a tu fan uses the 05 nc game as a basis for vy? he was on an outstanding team..to say that he will continue to be a winner is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

well your comment is stupid. Funny that most people did'nt say it was a team effort, more of a one man show. And yes he will continue to win!:cool:

[yankee]

well your comment is stupid. Funny that most people did'nt say it was a team effort, more of a one man show. And yes he will continue to win!:cool:

vy dominated the end of that game like nobody i've ever seen but he wasn't the one that picked up reggie bush's fumble or picked off matt leinart a couple of times or made some key catches...and to say that he will continue to win is absurd...you have no idea what's going to happen to him. take the orange glasses off homes...

[whs08]

vy dominated the end of that game like nobody i've ever seen but he wasn't the one that picked up reggie bush's fumble or picked off matt leinart a couple of times or made some key catches...and to say that he will continue to win is absurd...you have no idea what's going to happen to him. take the orange glasses off homes...

I'm speechless. I could'nt disagree with you more!:cool:

[whs08]

yankeeman1709 who's myspace?

[jtk1519]

then is it not pointless when a tu fan uses the 05 nc game as a basis for vy? he was on an outstanding team..to say that he will continue to be a winner is about as stupid a thing as one can say.

To directly use '05 to say how Vince will do in the NFL... yes, it is. I said that earlier. To say that because Vince won a championship in '05, that means he will be a winner in the NFL... yes, that is rather pointless. I'm not here to defend what other say.

However, if you were to say that Vince's 63-9 record as a starter in high school, college and the pros is a good indication that he will continue to be a winner, then that statement would have more relevance.

[yankee]

yankeeman1709 who's myspace?

what

[yankee]

To directly use '05 to say how Vince will do in the NFL... yes, it is. I said that earlier. To say that because Vince won a championship in '05, that means he will be a winner in the NFL... yes, that is rather pointless. I'm not here to defend what other say.

However, if you were to say that Vince's 63-9 record as a starter in high school, college and the pros is a good indication that he will continue to be a winner, then that statement would have more relevance.

i agree...but he won't be able to do it alone in the nfl...which brings us to the point that the titans are lacking in some areas on the offensive side of the ball...vy has been a winner his entire life, but he had a great texas team in 05 and i assume he had a pretty darn good team in hs...he's probably been on talented teams all his life and he's elevated them, but hs and ncaa are very different compared to the nfl...

[jtk1519]

What's on second.

[whs08]

what

I hope your kidding. The last link of your post that says myspace!:D

[K-Rock]

Yeah I've read your post! But you are sounding like a hater! Also hes not really as much a running Qb like Vick. Vince can pass! Maybe you should look at his highlights from college. Or the pass to Limas Sweed in the Ohio state game!:cool:

I sound like a hater because I don't think his style of game transfers well to the NFL?

I don't think he is a pure pocket passer. He relies heavily on his ability to run the football. When forced to stay in the pocket, he struggles.

Will he always be this way? I don't know.

I think he will continue to struggle with his passing game. Injuries could get him as well. Culpepper got hurt, McNabb got hurt, and Vick got hurt. Every running QB has had to deal with injuries. If Young loses his ability to make plays with his feet, I don't think he can convert his game to a stay in the pocket passer and be successful. I could be wrong. McNair was able to change his game as age and injuries caught up with him, so it could happen.

This is just my opinion. If you don't agree, that is cool with me. I still have the right to my opinion. This does not make me a hater

[yankee]

I hope your kidding. The last link of your post that says myspace!:D

oh...i forgot about my signature...yeah, that's just something me, dragons08, and another friend did because we were bored. :D

[whs08]

i agree...but he won't be able to do it alone in the nfl...which brings us to the point that the titans are lacking in some areas on the offensive side of the ball...vy has been a winner his entire life, but he had a great texas team in 05 and i assume he had a pretty darn good team in hs...he's probably been on talented teams all his life and he's elevated them, but hs and ncaa are very different compared to the nfl...

chris brown, hall, lendale white, givens are all good weapons!

[jtk1519]

i agree...but he won't be able to do it alone in the nfl...which brings us to the point that the titans are lacking in some areas on the offensive side of the ball...vy has been a winner his entire life, but he had a great texas team in 05 and i assume he had a pretty darn good team in hs...he's probably been on talented teams all his life and he's elevated them, but hs and ncaa are very different compared to the nfl...

Madison was a one-man team so there is at least some evidence that Vince can win on his own.

The Titans situation now on offense is a lot like Texas' offense in '04 minus the RB position. Texas had a Cedric as a senior in '04, but everything else that year corresponds very well to where Tennessee is now. Decent O-line. Nothing established at WR. Remember that Tony Jeffery, who was not a good WR, was the leading receiver in '04. Texas was really young and unproven at WR that year much like Tennessee is now. The only strength Texas had in the passing game that year was two very good pass catching TEs in Scaife and Thomas... one of the luxuries he has now in Tennessee with Scaife and Troupe. Tennessee has some great young potential at WR just as Texas did in '04. They just have to prove themselves and establish a running game.

[whs08]

I sound like a hater because I don't think his style of game transfers well to the NFL?

I don't think he is a pure pocket passer. He relies heavily on his ability to run the football. When forced to stay in the pocket, he struggles.

Will he always be this way? I don't know.

I think he will continue to struggle with his passing game. Injuries could get him as well. Culpepper got hurt, McNabb got hurt, and Vick got hurt. Every running QB has had to deal with injuries. If Young loses his ability to make plays with his feet, I don't think he can convert his game to a stay in the pocket passer and be successful. I could be wrong. McNair was able to change his game as age and injuries caught up with him, so it could happen.

This is just my opinion. If you don't agree, that is cool with me. I still have the right to my opinion. This does not make me a hater

Thats because roby and bennet drop the ball! Yes you have the right to your opinion!

[whs08]

I also forgot scaife in vy weapons.

[svhorns]

Madison was a one-man team so there is at least some evidence that Vince can win on his own.

The Titans situation now on offense is a lot like Texas' offense in '04 minus the RB position. Texas had a Cedric as a senior in '04, but everything else that year corresponds very well to where Tennessee is now. Decent O-line. Nothing established at WR. Remember that Tony Jeffery, who was not a good WR, was the leading receiver in '04. Texas was really young and unproven at WR that year much like Tennessee is now. The only strength Texas had in the passing game that year was two very good pass catching TEs in Scaife and Thomas... one of the luxuries he has now in Tennessee with Scaife and Troupe. Tennessee has some great young potential at WR just as Texas did in '04. They just have to prove themselves and establish a running game.

Courtney Lewis wasn't bad in highschool

[BlackandRed05]

chris brown, hall, lendale white, givens are all good weapons!

Chris Brown is injury prone. He had a hamstring injury, surgery on both ankles in 2005 and 156 yds last year. LenDale White had 244 rushing yds and no TD's last year. And Givens only played in 4 games last year having only 8 rec and 104 yds.
Yep, great weapons there.:confused:

[whs08]

Chris Brown is injury prone. He had a hamstring injury, surgery on both ankles in 2005 and 156 yds last year. LenDale White had 244 rushing yds and no TD's last year. And Givens only played in 4 games last year having only 8 rec and 104 yds.


Yep, great weapons there.:confused:

Lendale White was backup to Henry. Chris Brown is a veteran. Givens was 3rd string. Your a hater!

[BlackandRed05]

Lendale White was backup to Henry. Chris Brown is a veteran. Givens was 3rd string. Your a hater!

Nope, Im not a hater, I just cant see how the players you mentioned are great weapons.

[Texasfrog]

David Givens was hurt last year and I dont think he played all season. In fact I dont know if he is even ready for this season.

Lendell White is a lazy donunt that probably doenst hit 4.9 in the 40 and still cant bench press his own weight more than 7 times.

I hope Givens can make it back 100%. When healthy he is a very good WR's and I think Tom Brady will back that up.

[jtk1519]

The one thing that gets lost in all of this is that Vince has Norm Chow who doesn't get near enough credit for Tennessee's success last year. The offense that the Titans ran last year was nothing like the offense Chow has always run. Chow designed that offense around Vince and put him in a place to succeed. One cannot underestimate how much of a benefit it is for Vince to Norm Chow running the offense.

Anybody who watched Vince at Texas knows he's starting out in the NFL just like he did in college. He has a low ypa average and more INTs than TDs. He's using his legs to get him to where he feels more comfortable passing. He will also be in a very good position this year like he was in '04 in that he will have some solid targets to throw to. Look for a lot of 2 TE sets and look for Ahmard to be on the field a lot. Hall stepped up and proved that he could be that safety valve coming out of the backfield. In fact, of all the players Tennessee returns, Hall had the 3rd most receptions last year behind Brandon Jones and Scaife. They're going to dink and dunk a lot like a true WCO. With such short range targets, that should free up the receivers a bit more to get down field and Vince proved last year that he can chunk the ball down field. Having those short range receiving targets will also help the running game along.

Again, I think Tennessee's offense will be okay, they just have to stay healthy. They weren't going to fix everything overnight. It's going to take a year or two to really start building this team up, but they have a structure in place on offense to bridge the gap just fine. It's the defense where they have to prove themselves.

[Texasfrog]

The one thing that gets lost in all of this is that Vince has Norm Chow who doesn't get near enough credit for Tennessee's success last year. The offense that the Titans ran last year was nothing like the offense Chow has always run. Chow designed that offense around Vince and put him in a place to succeed. One cannot underestimate how much of a benefit it is for Vince to Norm Chow running the offense.

Anybody who watched Vince at Texas knows he's starting out in the NFL just like he did in college. He has a low ypa average and more INTs than TDs. He's using his legs to get him to where he feels more comfortable passing. He will also be in a very good position this year like he was in '04 in that he will have some solid targets to throw to. Look for a lot of 2 TE sets and look for Ahmard to be on the field a lot. Hall stepped up and proved that he could be that safety valve coming out of the backfield. In fact, of all the players Tennessee returns, Hall had the 3rd most receptions last year behind Brandon Jones and Scaife. They're going to dink and dunk a lot like a true WCO. With such short range targets, that should free up the receivers a bit more to get down field and Vince proved last year that he can chunk the ball down field. Having those short range receiving targets will also help the running game along.

Again, I think Tennessee's offense will be okay, they just have to stay healthy. They weren't going to fix everything overnight. It's going to take a year or two to really start building this team up, but they have a structure in place on offense to bridge the gap just fine. It's the defense where they have to prove themselves.

Well, I agree with at least 95% of that.

I do agree strongly that this whole topic (Titans making the playoffs) has turned into a Vince Young topic but the real reason that the Titans make or dont make the playoffs will probably be with their defense.

[jtk1519]

Something else to consider is just how young the Tennessee offense is. Not including rookies, this is how the Titans' key payers look in years worth of experience...

Quarterback
Vince Young - 1 yr

Running Backs
LenWhale White - 1 year
Chris Brown - 4 years

Fullback
Ahmard Hall - 1 year

Tight Ends
Bo Scaife - 2 years
Ben Troupe - 3 years

Wide Receivers
Brandon Jones - 2 years
Roydell Williams - 2 years
Justin Gage - 4 years
David Givens - 5 years

Offensive Line
David Stewart - 2 years
Michael Roos - 2 years
Jacob Bell - 3 years
Benji Olson - 9 years
Kevin Mawae - 13 years

That's a combined 54 years worth of experience over 15 players or about 3.6 years worth of experience on average... very young and that gets even lower when you consider that Chris Henry and at least Chris Davis are expected to contribute as rookies. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is the youngest offense in the NFL. As that is the case, growing pains can and must be expected.

[Texasfrog]

Something else to consider is just how young the Tennessee offense is. Not including rookies, this is how the Titans' key payers look in years worth of experience...

Quarterback
Vince Young - 1 yr

Running Backs
LenWhale White - 1 year
Chris Brown - 4 years

Fullback
Ahmard Hall - 1 year

Tight Ends
Bo Scaife - 2 years
Ben Troupe - 3 years

Wide Receivers
Brandon Jones - 2 years
Roydell Williams - 2 years
Justin Gage - 4 years
David Givens - 5 years

Offensive Line
David Stewart - 2 years
Michael Roos - 2 years
Jacob Bell - 3 years
Benji Olson - 9 years
Kevin Mawae - 13 years

That's a combined 54 years worth of experience over 15 players or about 3.6 years worth of experience on average... very young and that gets even lower when you consider that Chris Henry and at least Chris Davis are expected to contribute as rookies. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is the youngest offense in the NFL. As that is the case, growing pains can and must be expected.

L"Whale" White will be a non-factor for the Titans. I dont see him really doing anything. I think he is a tub of lard that will get Vince Young hurt before he helps him. I'm still trying to figure out why he gets so much love by the NFL. The only thing it can be is Norm Chow knows he understands some of his offensive concepts but even that doesnt really make sense.

I bet you right now that he doesnt do jack this season as far as anything productive (The"Whale" White).

[jtk1519]

L"Whale" White will be a non-factor for the Titans. I dont see him really doing anything. I think he is a tub of lard that will get Vince Young hurt before he helps him. I'm still trying to figure out why he gets so much love by the NFL. The only thing it can be is Norm Chow knows he understands some of his offensive concepts but even that doesnt really make sense.

I bet you right now that he doesnt do jack this season as far as anything productive (The"Whale" White).

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt this year. He showed up at 260 this Summer, but word is that he's gotten his butt in gear and is down to 240 and in much better shape. If he can stay healthy, I think he will be a good contributer. I also think the rookie Henry will do well. If you look at Vince from high school through the pros, all the RBs he has played with have not performed as well as they did when they were with Vince. Vince's abilities make it a lot easier for a RB to make plays. Just ask Jamaal Charles.

[Texasfrog]

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt this year. He showed up at 260 this Summer, but word is that he's gotten his butt in gear and is down to 240 and in much better shape. If he can stay healthy, I think he will be a good contributer. I also think the rookie Henry will do well. If you look at Vince from high school through the pros, all the RBs he has played with have not performed as well as they did when they were with Vince. Vince's abilities make it a lot easier for a RB to make plays. Just ask Jamaal Charles.

I agree with you there. I think Vince elevates the RB's caliber of play. At least in HS (courtney Lewis) and College (Benson & Charles).

But, I'm just not a big believer in L'whale White. I think A.Hall will help the Titans offense more when it's all said and done. I also think there is only about 20 RB's on the market that honestly have better overall skills then White. We'll see how he does this season and maybe he'll make a believer out me but I'm not going to count on it.

[BoomerSooner]

I don't know if I jumped on this too late or what, but in my opinion the Titans won't make the playoffs this next season. I think Young will be slightly improved due to greater experience, but I don't think he will put up any spectacular numbers. JTK made a good point about the running game stepping up even without Henry, but the receivers will once again be in competition with Atlanta for "most incompitent." Pacman is a constant distraction and will likely deal a huge blow to the defense, which wasn't anything great to begin with. If it was the NFC they'd have a legitimate shot, but competing against Baltimore, New England, Indianapolis, San Diego, Cincinatti, Jacksonville, Denver, etc.. all of which I feel are better teams at this point.

[BlackandRed05]

I don't know if I jumped on this too late or what, but in my opinion the Titans won't make the playoffs this next season. I think Young will be slightly improved due to greater experience, but I don't think he will put up any spectacular numbers. JTK made a good point about the running game stepping up even without Henry, but the receivers will once again be in competition with Atlanta for "most incompitent." Pacman is a constant distraction and will likely deal a huge blow to the defense, which wasn't anything great to begin with. If it was the NFC they'd have a legitimate shot, but competing against Baltimore, New England, Indianapolis, San Diego, Cincinatti, Jacksonville, Denver, etc.. all of which I feel are better teams at this point.

The RB's and WR's that are there now arent gonna be able to step up enough to make a difference. And you are right about the AFC, its not gonna be easy... 9 wins wont get you a playoff berth during most seasons in the AFC.

[jtk1519]

The RB's and WR's that are there now arent gonna be able to step up enough to make a difference.

Again, how do you know that? How are you able to say that so definitively? As I pointed out, most of these guys are very young. The top two WRs have only two years of experience with two different QBs. Hell, after two seasons Joe Horn had a grand total of 4 catches to his resume, Keenan McCardell had 14 and Jimmy Smith had 0. It's way too early to be speaking in such absolutes.

[BlackandRed05]

Again, how do you know that? How are you able to say that so definitively? As I pointed out, most of these guys are very young. The top two WRs have only two years of experience with two different QBs. Hell, after two seasons Joe Horn had a grand total of 4 catches to his resume, Keenan McCardell had 14 and Jimmy Smith had 0. It's way too early to be speaking in such absolutes.

Im not speaking in absolutes, thats what you are saying. Im just giving my opinion.

[jtk1519]

Im not speaking in absolutes, thats what you are saying. Im just giving my opinion.

You said...

The RB's and WR's that are there now arent (are not) gonna be able to step up enough to make a difference.

That is pretty much the definition of an absolute.

[BlackandRed05]

You said...



That is pretty much the definition of an absolute.

I could make an absolute statement,but I might get banned.:D

[whs08]

A hater? Have you read my post?

Vince Young will go down in history as one of the greatest COLLEGE QBs to play NCAA football. He was great for the state of Texas and Big XII football.

I just don't think his style of game transfers well to the NFL. Running QBs have not won a Superbowl.

Funny that Joe Montana, said that Vince Young was'nt a running QB!:cool:

[reed35]

i think they will

[whs08]

The RB's and WR's that are there now arent gonna be able to step up enough to make a difference. And you are right about the AFC, its not gonna be easy... 9 wins wont get you a playoff berth during most seasons in the AFC.

um?:confused:

[BDB]

The RB's and WR's that are there now arent gonna be able to step up enough to make a difference. And you are right about the AFC, its not gonna be easy... 9 wins wont get you a playoff berth during most seasons in the AFC.

i dont think they will. especially in the afc souf.

you have indy jacksonville tennesse and houston <:o. if jacksonville bounces back by riding the legs of jones-drew and indy plays like indy there alone are two teams that fill up the playoff spots.

then add in the mix that the texans (STOP LAUGHIN!) are actually making decisions that are in thier favor and try to better their team.

if everything were to pan out for the best you have a nice little division going there.

[whs08]

i dont think they will. especially in the afc souf.

you have indy jacksonville tennesse and houston <:o. if jacksonville bounces back by riding the legs of jones-drew and indy plays like indy there alone are two teams that fill up the playoff spots.

then add in the mix that the texans (STOP LAUGHIN!) are actually making decisions that are in thier favor and try to better their team.

if everything were to pan out for the best you have a nice little division going there.

And you know that how?

[BDB]

And you know that how?

i wish there was a dee dee dee emoticon on here.

it is an OPINION. do we need to spell out what an opinion is to you know?

[K-Rock]

Funny that Joe Montana, said that Vince Young was'nt a running QB!:cool:

I really don't care what Joe Montana said. The stats speak for themselves.

[BlackandRed05]

i wish there was a dee dee dee emoticon on here.

it is an OPINION. do we need to spell out what an opinion is to you know?

A dee dee dee emoticon would be cool, especialy if you could add sound to it.

[whs08]

I really don't care what Joe Montana said. The stats speak for themselves.

your an idiot.
Your posts suck.
Go win a national championship. Then win a few super bowls for the 49ers, then you can have an opinion, about VY!
Your not Joe Montana!

[yankee]

your an idiot.
Your posts suck.
Go win a national championship. Then win a few super bowls for the 49ers, then you can have an opinion, about VY!
Your not Joe Montana!

maybe i'll have to pull a whs08 and "report you to the administrators"...:p

[whs08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2plldnBfUgk

VY can throw, and yankee man I was'nt talking to you! I just find it funny that someone can come here and not listen to the great gods of football. Like Joe Montana!

[yankee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2plldnBfUgk

VY can throw, and yankee man I was'nt talking to you!

before you tell someone he's an idot and his posts sucks...maybe you should look at your imbecile posts first eh?

[whs08]

yankee man, I can't see what your saying!

[whs08]

before you tell someone he's an idot and his posts sucks...maybe you should look at your imbecile posts first eh?

I just realize you live in Florida! Theres no reason to argue with you. Wait your location is florida, you like ou, you follow the yankees, and you go to southlake! Or are you a liar?

Maybe if you started your sentences with a capital letter, then you would be more intelligent to talk to!

[BDB]

A dee dee dee emoticon would be cool, especialy if you could add sound to it.

i dont think carlos would mind as long as the face is brown :D .

but any way any way.

the titans have a great shot at making the wildcard this year IMO if they can beat j'ville. and i think a legitimate playoff spot if they were to beat the colts at least once.

i was watching highlights of vince. oh damn, if you gave him an andre johnson (hint hint) and a young defense like....... dameko ryans mario williams and dunta robinson it would be the gravy train for atleast 6 years.

[BDB]

I just realize you live in Florida! Theres no reason to argue with you. Wait your location is florida, you like ou, you follow the yankees, and you go to southlake! Or are you a liar?

Maybe if you started your sentences with a capital letter, then you would be more intelligent to talk to!

OMG! tHIS gUY iS tOO fUNNY. iTS lIKE aN "iM rUBBER yOUR gLUE" aRGUEMENT.

[BlackandRed05]

i dont think carlos would mind as long as the face is brown :D .

but any way any way.

the titans have a great shot at making the wildcard this year IMO if they can beat j'ville. and i think a legitimate playoff spot if they were to beat the colts at least once.

i was watching highlights of vince. oh damn, if you gave him an andre johnson (hint hint) and a young defense like....... dameko ryans mario williams and dunta robinson it would be the gravy train for atleast 6 years.

when i looked at their schedule, i think they can win one of the two games with j'ville, but beating the colts wont be easy at all. their first four games will be their toughest, ( jags, colts, saints, and then ron mexico)

[BDB]

when i looked at their schedule, i think they can win one of the two games with j'ville, but beating the colts wont be easy at all. their first four games will be their toughest, ( jags, colts, saints, and then ron mexico)

i know that a win against indy is pretty out of reach right now. and yes those first 4 are a killer.

they are far from a complete team, and you need to complete team to do good in the afc.

[BlackandRed05]

i know that a win against indy is pretty out of reach right now. and yes those first 4 are a killer.

they are far from a complete team, and you need to complete team to do good in the afc.

true, you do need to be complete. seems like the past couple of seasons you gotta get 10 wins to get a wildcard in the afc.

[BDB]

true, you do need to be complete. seems like the past couple of seasons you gotta get 10 wins to get a wildcard in the afc.

haha. as opposed to the NFC where the wildcard is like an open bar.

[BlackandRed05]

haha. as opposed to the NFC where the wildcard is like an open bar.

haha, teams with 10 wins gets home field advantage in the nfc.

[K-Rock]

your an idiot.
Your posts suck.
Go win a national championship. Then win a few super bowls for the 49ers, then you can have an opinion, about VY!
Your not Joe Montana!

I'm an idiot for looking objectively at a player and his stats huh?

Look little gay boy, its obvious that your man love for VY keeps you from looking at things objectively.

Don't get your little panties in a wad because I don't agree with you or Joe Montana!

VY rushed for over a 1,000 yards per season at UT. He only had 1 season with over 3,000 yards passing. That is a running QB.

Either post stats that back up your opinion or shut up. Joe Montana's opinion doesn't carry any more weight than yours.

Try looking at the facts instead of searching on the net for quotes that justify your pathetic infatuation for VY.

[whs08]

I'm guessing that k-rock is angry with me? Do I care? no. Because I can't see it!:D

[BDB]

I'm guessing that k-rock is angry with me? Do I care? no. Because I can't see it!:D

obviously it does or else you wouldnt of made a post about it.

[BlackandRed05]

I'm guessing that k-rock is angry with me? Do I care? no. Because I can't see it!:D

settle down beavis.... dont make me smack you.

[whs08]

settle down beavis.... dont make me smack you.
It's impossible to smack someone, on-line!

[whs08]

I'm an idiot for looking objectively at a player and his stats huh?

Look little gay boy, its obvious that your man love for VY keeps you from looking at things objectively.

Don't get your little panties in a wad because I don't agree with you or Joe Montana!

VY rushed for over a 1,000 yards per season at UT. He only had 1 season with over 3,000 yards passing. That is a running QB.

Either post stats that back up your opinion or shut up. Joe Montana's opinion doesn't carry any more weight than yours.

Try looking at the facts instead of searching on the net for quotes that justify your pathetic infatuation for VY.

wow, dude you took that maybe a little to far!

[whs08]

you calling me gay. wow, you really need to shut it!I'm surprise there not enough monitors on this site, to take care of people like you. If this was txhsfootball,By know you would have already been banned for life!

[whs08]

And Joe Montana opinion takes care of you, because he played the game! You did'nt.