Price of Gas

[dragons08]

gas is going up again, and its ridiculus.

i have to get premium gas, so thats like 2.80, the Navigator is like a 28 gallon tank, i ran it pretty much dry...you do the math, that is ridiculus! thank god for parents! :D


what is everyone else paying?

[t-long20]

navigator? if you can afford one of those i think the price of gas shold be the least of your worries (or your parents)

[dragons08]

navigator? if you can afford one of those i think the price of gas shold be the least of your worries (or your parents)

um its expensive. sorry just because i have money, doesnt mean i like to through it around, like i have an endless supply.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

um its expensive. sorry just because i have money, doesnt mean i like to through it around, like i have an endless supply.
i drive a navigator also, $60 didnt even fill the tank today. f'n rediculous

btw, i pay for my own gas with my own job, for all the haters.

[dragons08]

i get about 15-16 mpg, and all i do really is drive city, so thats very good, when its estimated MPG is like 13. so even though i drive 10 over, im usually conservative with getting up to speed, i brake only when i have to. (you use most gas when braking and accelerating) so i try to conserve it.

[dragons08]

i drive a navigator also, $60 didnt even fill the tank today. f'n rediculous

btw, i pay for my own gas with my own job, for all the haters.

dang dude. i think it was 70 today to fill the tank. what year you got?

[cyfallsgoalie31]

I get 12.7 mpg. all i drive mostly is to school and work, both about 5 miles from my house.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

dang dude. i think it was 70 today to fill the tank. what year you got?
'99

you?

[dragons08]

I get 12.7 mpg. all i drive mostly is to school and work, both about 5 miles from my house.

yikes. 12.7. try accelerating slower, and brake less. it helps a lot. i suggest using premium, makes the engine run better and i get a little better gas mileage with it.

[dragons08]

'99

you?

2005. i like it a lot. i like the late 00's version of it, compared to the early 00's late 99's version and the new one.. i hate the new one, its hideous. i just wish on the '05 it came with a chrome grill instead of the blackish grill. maybe i can save up for a new grill...

[cyfallsgoalie31]

yikes. 12.7. try accelerating slower, and brake less. it helps a lot. i suggest using premium, makes the engine run better and i get a little better gas mileage with it.
i got some premium today at shell. it was about $2.87. plus i just got a new oil filter.

i am not taking that tank to lubbock

[cyfallsgoalie31]

2005. i like it a lot. i like the late 00's version of it, compared to the early 00's late 99's version and the new one.. i hate the new one, its hideous. i just wish on the '05 it came with a chrome grill instead of the blackish grill. maybe i can save up for a new grill...
I think the new look like a dodge with the grill. plus its just flat out nasty

http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/945/thumbs/07Navigator_01_HR.jpg

[dragons08]

i got some premium today at shell. it was about $2.87. plus i just got a new oil filter.

i am not taking that tank to lubbock

yikes. go to costco. and if its still very expensive, switch to regular. it shouldnt affect you that much if your already getting piss poor MPG

[dragons08]

I think the new look like a dodge with the grill. plus its just flat out nasty

http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/945/thumbs/07Navigator_01_HR.jpg

i dont mind the interior or the sides, but the rear and the front are just HORRIBLE. i'll stick with what i got.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

yikes. go to costco. and if its still very expensive, switch to regular. it shouldnt affect you that much if your already getting piss poor MPG
next time i fill up ill definetly keep that in mind. so tomorrow, im going to go to costco to fill up. again.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

i dont mind the interior or the sides, but the rear and the front are just HORRIBLE. i'll stick with what i got.
i so want to make a female joke but i like to post here.

[dragons08]

next time i fill up ill definetly keep that in mind. so tomorrow, im going to go to costco to fill up. again.

you just filled up. how big is your tank?

[cyfallsgoalie31]

you just filled up. how big is your tank?
25, i was making a joke at my expense (again i hate puns) saying that my gas mileage sucks.

[Slim-Rob]

haha ya'll suck. I have a 12 year old pickup with a 5l V8 and i get 16 mpg average.

Try these things:

New air filter (don't buy cheap air filters)
New spark plugs
Carburator/fuel injector cleaner (WORKS VERY WELL)
Better exaust
cold air intake

[dragons08]

25, i was making a joke at my expense (again i hate puns) saying that my gas mileage sucks.

and 60 didnt fill it? im pretty sure i got a 28.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

and 60 didnt fill it? im pretty sure i got a 28.
60 put like 22.3 gallons in. its kinda full but i didnt top off.

[Slim-Rob]

Oh yeah, this truck has a 26 gallon tank, the last one had a 34 gallon tank. That was a beast to fill up and it only lasted about 400-450 miles.

[dragons08]

Oh yeah, this truck has a 26 gallon tank, the last one had a 34 gallon tank. That was a beast to fill up and it only lasted about 400-450 miles.

dang that sucks. i get about 400 milesish. then on road trips itsl ike 460's, its ridiculus.

[cyfallsgoalie31]

dang that sucks. i get about 400 milesish. then on road trips itsl ike 460's, its ridiculus.
327 :mad: :(

[dragons08]

327 :mad: :(

sucks dude.

[Slim-Rob]

my new truck is f'd up. My tank is a 26 gallon, but it won't run if there's under 3 gallons in it. So really I have a 23 gallon tank and 3 gallons of crap gas...ALSO idk if anyone reading this drives a Chevy truck, but wit Chevy trucks it's recommended not to run the truck a lot under a quarter of a tank because it over works the fuel pump and burns it out faster. Just FYI

[Slim-Rob]

dang that sucks. i get about 400 milesish. then on road trips itsl ike 460's, its ridiculus.

yeah this new truck is much better on gas but the old truck had a 350 in it and F gas mileage...that thing was a beast. I wish I would have taken it to the track...

[gtowndrumma]

man yall think you have it bad w/ 13+ mpg... ive got a 90 silverado extended cab w/ the 350 thats getting down to 9 miles to the gallon right now..... part of it is because its getting hot again, and part of it is that its time for an oil change and tune up but even after that ill be lucky to get 11 mpg which means a little over 200 miles to the tank


o and a buddy of mine has an old school blazer that gets 8mpg, but its also jacked up on some 46x14.5 swampers :D .... now that things a beast

[stevefoxsc]

the joy of crotch rockets.

[DragonBand06]

I filled up last night at $2.59, and it cost me $48.00.

[yankee]

my hummer costs like 75 bucks to fill up.


























not.

[SV61]

the joy of crotch rockets.

Man, even the Motorcycles.

There is something fundamentally wrong, with fillin up the Motorcycle, and using most ALL of a $20!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[SV61]

man yall think you have it bad w/ 13+ mpg... ive got a 90 silverado extended cab w/ the 350 thats getting down to 9 miles to the gallon right now..... part of it is because its getting hot again, and part of it is that its time for an oil change and tune up but even after that ill be lucky to get 11 mpg which means a little over 200 miles to the tank


o and a buddy of mine has an old school blazer that gets 8mpg, but its also jacked up on some 46x14.5 swampers :D .... now that things a beast

Man,

What have you done to your Truck, that would make it get 9 miles to the Gallon?

I had an 88 Z71, with the TBI Fuel Injection (like yours, stock) and when I sold it in 98 (with a little over 200K miles), it was still getting around 16.

[J-Rock Mom]

I have a 2002 Chevy 2500HD with the lift kit and to fill it is almost $65.00-$70.00 it is killing me.

[SV61]

I have a 2002 Chevy 2500HD with the lift kit and to fill it is almost $65.00-$70.00 it is killing me.

Ahhh,

The Good old 6.0 Liter (if you are lucky; That Dud (2500HD) also can come with the Diesel OR the Big Bad 8.1 Liter). I had a 2000 1500HD Crew Cab (2wd) with the 6.0 Liter, and it got about 13 -14 IF I drove it right.

I've Got a late Model Z71 Extended Cab now, and it gets about 18. It still costs a dang lot of money to fill it up.

[BandidoNB]

I filled up on 2.43 and my tank hold 10 galls, bringing it up to roughly $23 or so.... I can imagine spending $70 in gas on one tank.. crazy!

[Crank_It]

Try driving a 2003 F-250 thats NOT a diesel. 85 bones to fill up, 13 miles per gallon

[t-long20]

um its expensive. sorry just because i have money, doesnt mean i like to through it around, like i have an endless supply.

yea i got money too i used to drive an explorer but now i drive a civic for the great mpg

[Reaganrattler07]

um its expensive. sorry just because i have money, doesnt mean i like to through it around, like i have an endless supply.

Yep, exactly.

All our cars are V8....including the sl. And it takes high grade as well....

[ScottS]

Isn't 45 cents a gallon just the taxes?

[gtown04]

03' Toyota Corolla
32ish MPG, and at 2.56/gal it takes about 29.00$ to fill up my tank.

[dragons08]

man the potenial of hail earlier scared the crap out of me!

[yankee]

man the potenial of hail earlier scared the crap out of me!

much of it was baseball sized too. it would have surely ruined your nav.

[dragons08]

much of it was baseball sized too. it would have surely ruined your nav.

god, i would of had an heart attack. like seriously, wow. thank god i got to leave work early.

[GTown02]

I drive a POS Acura Legend. I get around 17/18mpg, and at 2.55 it takes around 45 dollars to fill her up. Oh I cant wait to get a newer car!:cool:

[Slim-Rob]

Man,

What have you done to your Truck, that would make it get 9 miles to the Gallon?

I had an 88 Z71, with the TBI Fuel Injection (like yours, stock) and when I sold it in 98 (with a little over 200K miles), it was still getting around 16.

My 94 regular cab with the 350 was getting around 10-11 when i sold it but i'm not gonna list what was wrong with it again. You can search up that thread if you want. Ranged from a vacuum leak to an oil leak to bad suspension and alignment, along with a bunch of other problems.

[stevefoxsc]

Man, even the Motorcycles.

There is something fundamentally wrong, with fillin up the Motorcycle, and using most ALL of a $20!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

thats better than 60 bucks for those big bodies!

[gtowndrumma]

Originally Posted by SV61 View Post
Man,

What have you done to your Truck, that would make it get 9 miles to the Gallon?

I had an 88 Z71, with the TBI Fuel Injection (like yours, stock) and when I sold it in 98 (with a little over 200K miles), it was still getting around 16.


part of it is the tbi that came on the 90 model is by far the worst produced by chevy... it has terrible fuel economy and the reduces the power of the engine by quite a bit..... the other part is that its getting hot outside so the whole ac issue (even though the compressor is shot i still run the vents) drains a little and its close to time for an oil change... o also last week a exhaust manifold gasket blew out so i guess there might have been a little leak and im going to go ahead and replace both of them this weekend..... all in all it will go back up, but it has never done better than like 13.7 highway mpg since ive had it and thats been for almost 4 years



also i put some new tires on it a while back, 31x11's i think which is quite a bit bigger than the stock 29x8's or whatever they used


all in all its time for a new truck... just waiting to find what i want go on the market w/ out outrageous miles

[mad_fan]

yeah this new truck is much better on gas but the old truck had a 350 in it and F gas mileage...that thing was a beast. I wish I would have taken it to the track...

Refer to truck one in my sig...
7/12...no matter what...
unloaded...7 city/12 highway...
14,000lbs behind it...7/12...
and it sounds cool now that the factory exhaust is gone...
not just loud like everybody makes theirs nowaday...
but, BIG BLOCK sounding...

[SV61]

thats better than 60 bucks for those big bodies!

This is true,

But I remember when IF I could get better than $5 in my bike, the cashier would look at you funny, and say "How big IS that tank?"

[SV61]

Refer to truck one in my sig...
7/12...no matter what...
unloaded...7 city/12 highway...
14,000lbs behind it...7/12...
and it sounds cool now that the factory exhaust is gone...
not just loud like everybody makes theirs nowaday...
but, BIG BLOCK sounding...

What exhaust system did you go with? I bet it DOES sound pretty cool.

[gtowndrumma]

now just put you a huge cam in that thing and itll sound like big block on roids:D


nothin better than hearin a huge big block lope at idle

[mad_fan]

What exhaust system did you go with? I bet it DOES sound pretty cool.

Went we a Flo-Pro setup as it creates a lot less cab noise that others...

Pipes are aluminized (rather than stainless) as they required some manipulation so I could get two three inch pipes out the right rear (original location of factory pipe)...

Also bought Michelin LTX tires and Bilstein shocks this past year…the cam will have to wait on the headers…

[Mac Is Back]

i get about 15-16 mpg, and all i do really is drive city, so thats very good, when its estimated MPG is like 13. so even though i drive 10 over, im usually conservative with getting up to speed, i brake only when i have to. (you use most gas when braking and accelerating) so i try to conserve it.

Ha! My mom drives the ultimate gas-guzzler short of an M1 tank - a 1995 Chevy Suburban. The monster boasts a 42 gallon tank with a V6 that gets about 12 miles to the gallon in the city. When prices hit their all time high either last summer or summer two years ago, my mom was running empty and decided to fill the thing up all the way. The bill? About $121 bucks. Plus, she works near the AT&T Center, and our house is right where 1604 and 281 meet on the Northeast side.

Meanwhile, my 98 Honda Accord has a 15 gallon tank and gets about 20 miles to the gallon city. I put 13 gallons in it this evening at a cost of 33 dollars.

[Slim-Rob]

My sister has a 96 Chevy Berretta with a V6 and get's in the mid 20's for mpg...lucky

[dragons08]

i want to buy a new grill for it. any suggestions?

[gtowndrumma]

billet grills always look great

[RocklandDragon]

Gasoline is $2.60 in Lubbock.

To think, I was about to vent about paying $38 to fill up my vehicle.

OOPS!

:D

I got a fuel-efficient car for a reason. Would have liked an SUV but the cost of filling up the tank (with premium no less--gas would be $2.80 a gallon!) and the driving that I do...takes too much out of my budget to my liking. Them road trips around Texas can eat some mileage out of your fuel tank...but worth every penny!

:D :D :D

[SV61]

Went we a Flo-Pro setup as it creates a lot less cab noise that others...

Pipes are aluminized (rather than stainless) as they required some manipulation so I could get two three inch pipes out the right rear (original location of factory pipe)...

Also bought Michelin LTX tires and Bilstein shocks this past year…the cam will have to wait on the headers…

If you go the header route with the cam, shouldn't you be looking at upgrading your rockers, valvetrain, etc? Possibly a little help from the grinder, porting the heads a little? I have an excellent source (or two) for that type of stuff.

Here is what I work on during the summer. Yep, it's a big block. It gets about 1/4 mile to four gallons! Yes, it sounds "pretty good" as well! :)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t58/rpattersonII/05OKC2a.jpg

So NO MORE WHINING about crappy gas mileage!! ;)

[mad_fan]

If you go the header route with the cam, shouldn't you be looking at upgrading your rockers, valvetrain, etc? Possibly a little help from the grinder, porting the heads a little? I have an excellent source (or two) for that type of stuff.

Here is what I work on during the summer. Yep, it's a big block. It gets about 1/4 mile to four gallons! Yes, it sounds "pretty good" as well! :)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t58/rpattersonII/05OKC2a.jpg

So NO MORE WHINING about crappy gas mileage!! ;)

GM has two different Vortec 8100s...
Both are basically the good old 454 block...
One with a bigger bore the other with a longer stroke...
The auto engine (like in my truck) calcs to 496 cube...
The boat motor is a 502 cube I believe...

[SV61]

GM has two different Vortec 8100s...
Both are basically the good old 454 block...
One with a bigger bore the other with a longer stroke...
The auto engine (like in my truck) calcs to 496 cube...
The boat motor is a 502 cube I believe...

Actually,

Our boat motor is a 547 cid. It is almost perfectly square, have a 4.50 stroke, and a 4.30 bore. We never (intentionally) rev it over 7700 RPM (!!!). A good run for us, the motor will not touch 7400. I have seen the tattletale tach show 9000!

Boat makes about 2200 HP, give or take. We gotta get to the other end in about 7 seconds, give or take a thousandnth.

:eek:

[Firebird]

1998 Dodge Dakota w/ the 360. I've never cared too much to actually measure MPG, but about 12 city/15 highway sounds about right. Was a good idea when I got it and gas was oh.... .99c.

[AllenEagle06]

The price of gas is the reason I won't be driving a truck or SUV any time soon. My car gets about 20 mpg and costs about $30-$35 to fill it up. It's still ridiculous, there's not even a reason why it's going up.

[RPM]

I parked my 93 Ford Lightning because of Gas...351 windsor with Cam, headers, Stall convertor, shift kit and bunch of other goodies would get me 12 in the city and 16 expressway...got me a 4x4 ranger now..and the Ford is covered up..one day ill get it back on the road..i hope...

[Firebird]

I parked my 93 Ford Lightning because of Gas...351 windsor with Cam, headers, Stall convertor, shift kit and bunch of other goodies would get me 12 in the city and 16 expressway...got me a 4x4 ranger now..and the Ford is covered up..one day ill get it back on the road..i hope...

That's a pretty sweet ride, RPM. Actually, it is probably a good thing that you are keeping it garaged right now, because they didn't make a whole lot of those Lightnings. Keep the miles low and it under wraps most of the time and you might very well see a tidy profit of of that truck.

[mad_fan]

I parked my 93 Ford Lightning because of Gas...351 windsor with Cam, headers, Stall convertor, shift kit and bunch of other goodies would get me 12 in the city and 16 expressway...got me a 4x4 ranger now..and the Ford is covered up..one day ill get it back on the road..i hope...

where...EXACTLY...did you park it...


:D

[PaulinPlano]

I think we need more competition... It's going to cost me North or $70 to fill my truck up.

Regular now at $2.80:mad:

[dada]

I think we need more competition... It's going to cost me North or $70 to fill my truck up.

Regular now at $2.80:mad:

Try $2.92...pissing me off

[mad_fan]

Try $2.92...pissing me off

WOW...almost the price of a gallon of milk...
And milk is a non-depletable resource...
And milk isn't shipped half way around the world...
And milk doesn't go through 1/100 of the processing oil does...

Is anyone *****in' about getting screwed by the American dairy farmer...

[mad_fan]

WOW...almost the price of a gallon of milk...
And milk is a non-depletable resource...
And milk isn't shipped half way around the world...
And milk doesn't go through 1/100 of the processing oil does...

Is anyone *****in' about getting screwed by the American dairy farmer...

And what does a gallon of that FINE h2o go for???

Want to offset the price of gas...
Buy stock in an oil company...

[CoveMom]

where...EXACTLY...did you park it...


:D

I'll fill up the '88 Bubba Truck if you get an answer to this one. You bring Ms. Mad to help distract traffic and we can have that puppy on a trailer in no time! :cool:

[mad_fan]

I'll fill up the '88 Bubba Truck if you get an answer to this one. You bring Ms. Mad to help distract traffic and we can have that puppy on a trailer in no time! :cool:

;)

[twcpfan1]

gas is going up again, and its ridiculus.

i have to get premium gas, so thats like 2.80, the Navigator is like a 28 gallon tank, i ran it pretty much dry...you do the math, that is ridiculus! thank god for parents! :D


what is everyone else paying?

Is a Navigator considered cool for a HS kid to drive?

[PaulinPlano]

gas is going up again, and its ridiculus.

i have to get premium gas, so thats like 2.80, the Navigator is like a 28 gallon tank, i ran it pretty much dry...you do the math, that is ridiculus! thank god for parents! :D


what is everyone else paying?

Is a Navigator considered cool for a HS kid to drive?

Not to the kid driving the Hummer.:D

[AE 8008]

trucks rule

[Reaganrattler07]

Look at Europe and see how much they've been paying and then look at ourselves.

Much of our oil comes from the middle east. It's an unstable region especially with one specific country cooking up some nukes and showing off its belligerence(sp).

[Reaganrattler07]

I think we need more competition... It's going to cost me North or $70 to fill my truck up.

Regular now at $2.80:mad:

Is it necessary for you to have the truck?

If not, get rid of it and the complaints will disappear!

[twcpfan1]

Maybe you should all stop whining and drive one of these. :D

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/5195/ateamsmart8uc.jpg

[Reaganrattler07]

Lol, when Mercedes was shooting some video of the inside of their new E-Class cars (so they had to drive really slow) they brought it out onto their track and just as kind of a blooper they had a Smart race past it.

[PaulinPlano]

Is it necessary for you to have the truck?

If not, get rid of it and the complaints will disappear!

I coach a little league team and haul a lot of equipment this time of year. It also comes in handy all the time for household needs. I only work about 9 miles away, so I don't burn a ton of gas with it. So I don't use A lot of gas. I fill up about every 2 weeks.

If you don't feel the price of gas is high, why read this thread?

:rolleyes:

[mad_fan]

I coach a little league team and haul a lot of equipment this time of year. It also comes in handy all the time for household needs. I only work about 9 miles away, so I don't burn a ton of gas with it. So I don't use A lot of gas. I fill up about every 2 weeks.

If you don't feel the price of gas is high, why read this thread?

:rolleyes:

Ah...cause the thread is about...the PRICE OF GAS...not...the HIGH PRICE OF GAS...:)

[ktCarl]

What's a high school kid doing with a Navigator? :confused:

Is it your parents car that you have to purchase gas for when you use it?

[Reaganrattler07]

I coach a little league team and haul a lot of equipment this time of year. It also comes in handy all the time for household needs. I only work about 9 miles away, so I don't burn a ton of gas with it. So I don't use A lot of gas. I fill up about every 2 weeks.

If you don't feel the price of gas is high, why read this thread?

:rolleyes:

The price, in comparison to some places is quite low. The price, in comparison to other places, is pretty high. That's why I really don't think we should be crying and whining about it being so high....just yet.

And the thread is about the "Price of Gas" not the "High Price of Gas".

Good luck with your little league team.

[Reaganrattler07]

What's a high school kid doing with a Navigator? :confused:

Is it your parents car that you have to purchase gas for when you use it?

I think they pay for everything...

[ktCarl]

I think they pay for everything...

Wow. Then why complain about the price of gasoline?

[gtowndrumma]

i guess hes a good kid and doesn't like spending mommy and daddys money?

[GoOwls]

Send him to me. I'll take him in trade for the lazy piece of crap who still lives with us. He won't have a Navigator....in fact....he won't have a car period, I can't afford one, but it'll give me an excuse to kick this bum out. :eek:

[PaulinPlano]

Ah...cause the thread is about...the PRICE OF GAS...not...the HIGH PRICE OF GAS...:)

The price, in comparison to some places is quite low. The price, in comparison to other places, is pretty high. That's why I really don't think we should be crying and whining about it being so high....just yet.

And the thread is about the "Price of Gas" not the "High Price of Gas".

Good luck with your little league team.

It is implied...:p

We played well in a scrimmage Saturday... We are playing up 7 & 8 year olds in a 9AA league (rec ball). I think we will be competitive. Thanks.

[ktCarl]

WORLD GASOLINE PRICES



Gas prices on April 17 or 18. Data for EU countries were provided by the AA Motoring Trust. Prices are listed in U.S. dollars


United Kingdom $8.37


Netherlands $7.52


Norway $7.33


Belgium $6.95


Denmark $6.95


Germany $6.72


Portugal $6.65


Finland $6.57


France $6.50


Sweden $6.50


Hungary $5.63


Poland $5.63


Slovakia $5.59


Austria $5.40


Ireland $5.40


Slovenia $5.36


Switzerland $5.17


Spain $5.14


Czech Republic $5.10


Greece $4.91


Italy $4.80


Lithuania $4.72


Latvia $4.61


Estonia $4.30


Luxembourg $4.27


Japan $4.16


United States $2.88


Kazakhstan $2.75


Russia $2.68


Mexico $2.38


China $2.19


Nigeria $1.92


Saudi Arabia $0.45


Venezuela $0.19

[Reaganrattler07]

Next time someone ignorantly yells Europe is better, I'm punching 'em in the neck....

[PaulinPlano]

WORLD GASOLINE PRICES


Venezuela $0.19

In a country where 1/3 of the population lives below the poverty line and the average income (compared to US purchasing power) is $4,900 a year.

[mad_fan]

In a country where 1/3 of the population lives below the poverty line and the average income (compared to US purchasing power) is $4,900 a year.

and nobody has a car...:eek:

[PaulinPlano]

Just paid $2.90 per gallon at Sam's Club yesterday... we are headed for $3.00 and beyond. The corner store is at $2.99.

[slorch]

Next time someone ignorantly yells Europe is better, I'm punching 'em in the neck....

gas prices figure in insignificantly in that equation.:rolleyes:

[Reaganrattler07]

Just paid $2.90 per gallon at Sam's Club yesterday... we are headed for $3.00 and beyond. The corner store is at $2.99.

We'll probably come close to hitting 4 by the end of the summer.

[Mac Is Back]

What's a high school kid doing with a Navigator? :confused:

Is it your parents car that you have to purchase gas for when you use it?

My friend Thaddaeus drives an 02 Navigator. He hates it because of gas.

[Mac Is Back]

Next time someone ignorantly yells Europe is better, I'm punching 'em in the neck....

This explains why Europeans rely so heavily on subways and buses. I don't know, though, why England leads the world in prices.

[Reaganrattler07]

My friend Thaddaeus drives an 02 Navigator. He hates it because of gas.

We're thinkin' about getting one to replace our SUV that we've had for a while. Possibly the only American SUV I'd buy next to the Mountaineer and maybe the Escape.

[Reaganrattler07]

This explains why Europeans rely so heavily on subways and buses. I don't know, though, why England leads the world in prices.

And you gotta love the social health care (http://www.shoppe.ca/BritishTeeth3.jpg).

[KT2000]

And you gotta love the social health care (http://www.shoppe.ca/BritishTeeth3.jpg).

"The teeth don't matter!"- Ms. Kensington

[dragons08]

We're thinkin' about getting one to replace our SUV that we've had for a while. Possibly the only American SUV I'd buy next to the Mountaineer and maybe the Escape.

its an awesome car. runs great, lots of room, as long as you take care of it it lasts long.

took it in for an oil change, guy couldnt believe how great of a condition it was in. then i couldnt believe the price...65 bucks.

[ktCarl]

And you gotta love the social health care (http://www.shoppe.ca/BritishTeeth3.jpg).

Yeah, Baby!!! Shagadelic!!!

[dragonsdaddy]

haha ya'll suck. I have a 12 year old pickup with a 5l V8 and i get 16 mpg average.

Try these things:

New air filter (don't buy cheap air filters)
New spark plugs
Carburator/fuel injector cleaner (WORKS VERY WELL)
Better exaust
cold air intake

i have 300k on my '90 f250 and i get 22-23 on the hiway but of course it's a diesel. it gets better mileage now than when i got it at 110k. crazy.

[dragons08]

i have 300k on my '90 f250 and i get 22-23 on the hiway but of course it's a diesel. it gets better mileage now than when i got it at 110k. crazy.

300k and still chuggin along. amazing.

[dragonsdaddy]

300k and still chuggin along. amazing.

running better than ever with the new tranny. i may never have to purchase another truck at this rate. it doesn't look any worse for wear from when you last saw it either.
















not that it could.

[dragons08]

running better than ever with the new tranny. i may never have to purchase another truck at this rate. it doesn't look any worse for wear from when you last saw it either.
















not that it could.

haha. slap some paint on there, its good as new.

[dragonsdaddy]

haha. slap some paint on there, its good as new.

not so much. it'd be like putting lipstick on a sow.

[slorch]

the wife had an accident last week (other driver rear-ended her vehicle,) so she is driving a rental replacement- a freaking expedition!:eek: she pulls up in that monster and exclaims, " It's free honey." I just asked her if they gave her a Gascard account to go with it...

she filled it up yesterday for $95.:puke :confused: :mad:

[Reaganrattler07]

its an awesome car. runs great, lots of room, as long as you take care of it it lasts long.

took it in for an oil change, guy couldnt believe how great of a condition it was in. then i couldnt believe the price...65 bucks.

The one we're looking at is in good condition, too. It really is a good car.

[stevefoxsc]

Next time someone ignorantly yells Europe is better, I'm punching 'em in the neck....

http://www.pubfoto.com/albums/gioxx-comics/difference_european_vs_american_girls.sized.jpg

women are what matter in the end.

/thread

[TheBigPeach]

um its expensive. sorry just because i have money, doesnt mean i like to through it around, like i have an endless supply.

Amen, I drive a 06 silverado and it was over $60 also. (Gas in Georgia is almost 4.00 a gallon near Atlanta Airport. Whats the prices going for in
Tejas?

[dragonsdaddy]

Amen, I drive a 06 silverado and it was over $60 also. (Gas in Georgia is almost 4.00 a gallon near Atlanta Airport. Whats the prices going for in
Tejas?

gas is in the 2.90's. bought diesel this week for 2.65

[PaulinPlano]

Gas has dropped 4 cents in the last week here.

[slorch]

Just sold my 1999 Ranger(165k miles) 18mpg

now I have a 2006 Saturn Ion. 35 mpg

I feel a smidgeon less masculine today, for some reason. But I will be able to afford more beer now, so maybe that will be offset.:D

[Redhoss]

Just sold my 1999 Ranger(165k miles) 18mpg

now I have a 2006 Saturn Ion. 35 mpg

I feel a smidgeon less masculine today, for some reason. But I will be able to afford more beer now, so maybe that will be offset.:D

Trucks sure come in handy but with the gas savings, you can always go rent a truck from Uhaul for the day if you really need one. :D

[SV61]

Bump.


Thought you folks might want to look through this thread, from 07.


Good stuff.......................

[toonman]

My friend in England says they pay about $10 a gallon equivalent. They buy gas (petrol) in Liters. We should be thankful for small mercies.

[trojanbacker]

I drive a small German car. It's 11 years old and runs as well as the day I bought it. Gets 30 mpg. Never done anything to it outside of routine maintenance. The Germans know how to build a good car. And watches.

[drgnbkr]

not so much. it'd be like putting lipstick on a sow.

Nothing better than your fine truckmobile in the comfortable confines of the Dragon Stadium parking lot-pre-game with Dragon/Lone Star Flags flying, announcing "The good Dr. is in and all are welcome"! Even Farmerfan....:p

[the_phoenix612]

lol @ 2007-era D08. What a tool:D

[drgnbkr]

lol @ 2007-era D08. What a tool:D

And you were what? 15?

[dragons08]

And you were what? 15?

Probably bragging about Obama and what not...but yet couldn't vote bahahaha.

[SV61]

$3.59 for regular unleaded last night.

Dang.

[84MDGuy]

I just paid $4.16 a gallon for regular unleaded out here on the left coast! Consider yourself lucky!

Price we pay for sunshine and Pelosi/Obama lovers! :D

[SV61]

I just paid $4.16 a gallon for regular unleaded out here on the left coast! Consider yourself lucky!

Price we pay for sunshine and Pelosi/Obama lovers! :D

I Love Cali, if 20 million hadn't beaten me there!

Well, that and the whole Earth movin thing. That's a little creepy.

Other than that, it's a cool place to hang.

Well, that and gas prices........

:D

[DrEdward]

Saw my first $4.00 + gas price in Texas last evening. :(

It would appear that the administration's agenda to encourage high gas prices in order to control consumer behavior is succeeding. As Energy Secretary Steven Chu said in 2008: “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” Keep up the good work.:rolleyes:

[SV61]

Saw my first $4.00 + gas price in Texas last evening. :(

It would appear that the administration's agenda to encourage high gas prices in order to control consumer behavior is succeeding. As Energy Secretary Steven Chu said in 2008: “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” Keep up the good work.:rolleyes:

Please tell me, that at least it was premium.

[drgnbkr]

Saw my first $4.00 + gas price in Texas last evening. :(

It would appear that the administration's agenda to encourage high gas prices in order to control consumer behavior is succeeding. As Energy Secretary Steven Chu said in 2008: “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” Keep up the good work.:rolleyes:

Obama sez..."get a tune up" "get used to it" "Trade it in" and the always clever "Yeah, I remember when I use to pump gas"....Heaven forbid he encourages exploration..:rolleyes:

[the_phoenix612]

Obama sez..."get a tune up" "get used to it" "Trade it in" and the always clever "Yeah, I remember when I use to pump gas"....Heaven forbid he encourages exploration..:rolleyes:
Let's pretend he starts encouraging exploration tomorrow. How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years. Your persistence in blaming Obama for every social ill is admirable, but sometimes you really stretch the bounds of reality.

[SV61]

Let's pretend he starts encouraging exploration tomorrow. How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years. Your persistence in blaming Obama for every social ill is admirable, but sometimes you really stretch the bounds of reality.

And how many years, has this been the case? How many more years, before we actually do something? WE, as a country?

My point isn't about bashing who is wearing the big hat at any point. My point, is it's the same crap we were presented with back in 07. Here we are, four years later. It was going to take, potentially up to TWO years in 07, to get competitive domestic oil exploration on line.

Why didn't this happen? OR, what is happening?

[the_phoenix612]

And how many years, has this been the case? How many more years, before we actually do something? WE, as a country?

My point isn't about bashing who is wearing the big hat at any point. My point, is it's the same crap we were presented with back in 07. Here we are, four years later. It was going to take, potentially up to TWO years in 07, to get competitive domestic oil exploration on line.

Why didn't this happen? OR, what is happening?
The US is far, far beyond peak domestic oil. Becoming independent of foreign oil while maintaining current consumption levels is a pipe dream brought up by Republicans to try to slam Obama on anything they possibly can.

[smw358]

Let's pretend he starts encouraging exploration tomorrow. How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years. Your persistence in blaming Obama for every social ill is admirable, but sometimes you really stretch the bounds of reality.

Last time gas prices were up Bush lifted the offshore exploration ban and oil prices dropped almost immediately. Oil future traders sold their future contracts almost as fast as anyone would buy them. Not weeks and or months......try days. Same thing would happen if Obama did this again. I do not know why he insists on destroying our economy with oil restrictions and China has none......:rolleyes:

[the_phoenix612]

Last time gas prices were up Bush lifted the offshore exploration ban and oil prices dropped almost immediately. Oil future traders sold their future contracts almost as fast as anyone would buy them. Not weeks and or months......try days. Same thing would happen if Obama did this again. I do not know why he insists on destroying our economy with oil restrictions and China has none......:rolleyes:
People seriously wonder why our government can't get anything done, while the right wing uses extreme language and polarizes the populace, then plays innocent like they aren't the ones forcing a shutdown. It's disingenuous and, frankly, sickening. Act like adults.

[drgnbkr]

Let's pretend he starts encouraging exploration tomorrow. How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years. Your persistence in blaming Obama for every social ill is admirable, but sometimes you really stretch the bounds of reality.

So in your world producing no domestic energy or at the least discouraging the hell out of it, will lower the price at the pump? You need a tune up.

[SV61]

The US is far, far beyond peak domestic oil. Becoming independent of foreign oil while maintaining current consumption levels is a pipe dream brought up by Republicans to try to slam Obama on anything they possibly can.

So, Obama was in office in 07? I don't recall that. But, I'm sure that somehow it was the Republicans fault back then as well. What I recall then, was the fact of how the environment would be impacted by these heinous acts of obtaining the oil.

No one (with any sort of brain) has suggested that the US would be self sufficient. But, with an emphasis put back on finding and refining oil here, it could help lower the price of gasoline HERE.

Like what was discussed in 2007.

[smw358]

People seriously wonder why our government can't get anything done, while the right wing uses extreme language and polarizes the populace, then plays innocent like they aren't the ones forcing a shutdown. It's disingenuous and, frankly, sickening. Act like adults.

Whut...?:confused: I was talking about oil prices.........

So, Obama was in office in 07? I don't recall that. But, I'm sure that somehow it was the Republicans fault back then as well. What I recall then, was the fact of how the environment would be impacted by these heinous acts of obtaining the oil.

No one (with any sort of brain) has suggested that the US would be self sufficient. But, with an emphasis put back on finding and refining oil here, it could help lower the price of gasoline HERE.

Like what was discussed in 2007.

What he said..............:rolleyes:

[DrEdward]

So, Obama was in office in 07? I don't recall that. But, I'm sure that somehow it was the Republicans fault back then as well. What I recall then, was the fact of how the environment would be impacted by these heinous acts of obtaining the oil.

No one (with any sort of brain) has suggested that the US would be self sufficient. But, with an emphasis put back on finding and refining oil here, it could help lower the price of gasoline HERE.

Like what was discussed in 2007.

Not to mention being discussed in the 1970s as well. Can someone remind me why the Dept. of Energy was created? Something about getting off the overwhelming dependence on foreign sources?

[b756561]

Let's pretend he starts encouraging exploration tomorrow. How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years. Your persistence in blaming Obama for every social ill is admirable, but sometimes you really stretch the bounds of reality.

Same thing your crowd said years ago. "How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years." Well you know what, if they had been given permission to drill back then, that gas would be in our gas tanks today and the price wouldn't be at $4.00 a gallion today. Your crowd is still playing that same tired, old game today. "It'll take years to get that oil to the market, so let's not even start exploration." That's really using your brain and planning ahead. Now Obama IS spouting the same tired old rhetoric and 10 more years down the road you people will still be giving the same old excuse.

[slcdragonfan]

Same thing your crowd said years ago. "How long until we see reductions in gas prices? Weeks? Months? Try years." Well you know what, if they had been given permission to drill back then, that gas would be in our gas tanks today and the price wouldn't be at $4.00 a gallion today. Your crowd is still playing that same tired, old game today. "It'll take years to get that oil to the market, so let's not even start exploration." That's really using your brain and planning ahead. Now Obama IS spouting the same tired old rhetoric and 10 more years down the road you people will still be giving the same old excuse.

Why not, every party has failed to act since the first Oil Shock in 1973. That is 38 years ago.

THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS AGO!

I guess we will solve no problem before it becomes a catastrophe. Human Nature. See Collapse of Societies by Diamond.

And realistically, $4/gal is probably going to look good in about 20 years. By then though, I will be riding the rail and excellent public transit system we have invested in and not have to own a car as an older person. Oh, wait..... :)

Maybe my church will drive me....

[rwilleby]

Obama sez..."get a tune up" "get used to it" "Trade it in" and the always clever "Yeah, I remember when I use to pump gas"....Heaven forbid he encourages exploration..:rolleyes:

As someone who pumped gas as a teenager, I take offense to his remark.. Where was he when he pumped this gas? Dumb arse...

[smw358]

Why not, every party has failed to act since the first Oil Shock in 1973. That is 38 years ago.

THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS AGO!

I guess we will solve no problem before it becomes a catastrophe. Human Nature. See Collapse of Societies by Diamond.

And realistically, $4/gal is probably going to look good in about 20 years. By then though, I will be riding the rail and excellent public transit system we have invested in and not have to own a car as an older person. Oh, wait..... :)

Maybe my church will drive me....


Those were the days...........


Interesting book I read some time back regarding "limited resources" from and economic point of view. It's a very interesting book dealing with technology and science. "Unlimited Wealth" by Paul Zane Pilzer

http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/uw.htm

[slcdragonfan]

Those were the days...........


Interesting book I read some time back regarding "limited resources" from and economic point of view. It's a very interesting book dealing with technology and science. "Unlimited Wealth" by Paul Zane Pilzer

http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/uw.htm

Looks interesting. I saw this:

Whether or not we ever did, today we do not live in a resource-scarce environment. That may seem hard to believe, but the businessperson and the
politician--as well as the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker--who
continue to behave as if they were operating in the old zero-sum world will soon find themselves eclipsed by those who recognize the new realities and
react accordingly.
What are these new realities? To put it simply, we live today in a world of
effectively unlimited resources--a world of unlimited wealth. In short, we live in what one might call a new Alchemic world.

What is the underlying support for those statements?

resource scarcity is typically related to the cost of acquiring said resource. While there is quite a bit of oil in, say, the Austin chalk or the oil sands in Canada, the cost of acquiring said oil mandates a certain minimum price.

Also, geolocation is a factor. Oil in the Mid-East and thus plentiful supply does not equate to no scarcity elsewhere. They own it, we have to acquire. We are past the days (I think) when we could just go take it. Those who are "taking it" are state-owned oil suppliers who are investing big sums and buying it (Chinese Oil Companies for example). They are driven not just by a profit motive but also by a Nationalist focus.

At some point there will be a cross-over where alternative fuel choices become cost effective. That is the price point at which the oil producing states need to stay just under as long as they can.

But in the end, scarcity is a market issue. I am sure Doc can clean up what I am trying to say here.

[DrEdward]

Why not, every party has failed to act since the first Oil Shock in 1973. That is 38 years ago.

THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS AGO!


I guess we will solve no problem before it becomes a catastrophe. Human Nature. See Collapse of Societies by Diamond.

And realistically, $4/gal is probably going to look good in about 20 years. By then though, I will be riding the rail and excellent public transit system we have invested in and not have to own a car as an older person. Oh, wait..... :)

Maybe my church will drive me....

The president knows his policies and regulations are contributing to high gas prices. As you point out, we would normally expect him or other political types to deflect this onto his political opponents, or perhaps ‘evil’ corporate interests, but blaming American citizens is at a minimum rather creative.

The president is capable of taking actions to attempt to expand the U.S. domestic energy supply with some focus on domestic oil production. Feel free to encourage windmills and solar, but drilling permits can not only be processed, but explorative growth can be encouraged. At the very least, the president can choose to cheer our own domestic industry that supports domestic jobs and creates economic growth in the United States as compared to off shore exploration in Brazil.

[twcpfan1]

I think I'll move to a place where I can catch the train to anywhere.

[DrEdward]

Looks interesting. I saw this:



What is the underlying support for those statements?

resource scarcity is typically related to the cost of acquiring said resource. While there is quite a bit of oil in, say, the Austin chalk or the oil sands in Canada, the cost of acquiring said oil mandates a certain minimum price.

Also, geolocation is a factor. Oil in the Mid-East and thus plentiful supply does not equate to no scarcity elsewhere. They own it, we have to acquire. We are past the days (I think) when we could just go take it. Those who are "taking it" are state-owned oil suppliers who are investing big sums and buying it (Chinese Oil Companies for example). They are driven not just by a profit motive but also by a Nationalist focus.

At some point there will be a cross-over where alternative fuel choices become cost effective. That is the price point at which the oil producing states need to stay just under as long as they can.

But in the end, scarcity is a market issue. I am sure Doc can clean up what I am trying to say here.

All resources are scare in relation to the demand for them. If they are not, then there is no problem. (More later)

[DrEdward]

I think I'll move to a place where I can catch the train to anywhere.

That would be Clarksville, or was that simply the last train?

[chhspantherfan]

wfaa reporting that Exxon Mobil will post 60% increase in Quarterly profit later this week.

Ed Wallace has great article this morning. any readers?

By ED WALLACE
Watching traffic around Dallas Fort Worth, you'd never know that America was having any kind of gasoline crisis. Many on the freeways drive like Texas has already approved the proposed 85 mph speed limit.
After all, if a vehicle rated at 30 mpg on the road is driven at 85 mph, its fuel efficiency drops by around 35 percent. This makes that gallon of gas they're currently paying $3.79 for cost the equivalent of $5.11.
That does not mean that the market for oil and gasoline is not oversold, the cost to consumers and industry far more than it needs to be. Until recently it was impossible to tell whether the speculators' claims to the media were true - that it's the high worldwide demand for oil causing prices to once again skyrocket, pushing gasoline prices $1 a gallon higher than they were this time last year.
It's true that rail traffic is up in America - a sure sign of a strengthening economy - and it's equally true that cargo shipments worldwide are back to pre-Great Recession volumes. However, MasterCard and other oil analysts are saying that our gasoline usage has dropped anywhere from 3 - 3.7 percent over the past five weeks. For a country that sometimes burns 400 million gallons of gasoline a day, that's no small drop.
Yet in the system of futures trading, such a decline in demand should require that what buyers are willing to pay for fuel for resale drop proportionately - and that's just not happening.
Goldman Outs Speculators
Meanwhile, the media keep saying that gasoline prices are directly tied to oil pricing, and that isn't entirely true, either. Oil and gasoline are sold to two different buyers. One market's buyers refine the crude and the other comprises gasoline's retail vendors; these are the legitimate hedgers. But let's not forget the speculators - who jump into the market for paper profits every chance they get.
To prove once again that no one in the investment banking business actually knows anything about oil, on April 11 Goldman Sachs advised its clients that it's time to get rid of their commodities holdings, including oil. The British Guardian's report quoted Goldman's advice as warning, "The record levels of speculative trading in crude have pushed their prices up so much in recent months that in the near term risk reward no longer favors holding those commodities."
"Record levels of speculative trading in crude" have pushed up commodities' prices? Funny, all we've been hearing is that today's oil prices are justified because of abnormally large demand, owing to the world's improving economy.
Fleece While You Can?
That same day the Financial Times reported that in March the Saudis "throttled back their production of oil" -which seemed contrary to their promise to replace any oil world markets lost through the Libyan Revolution. But they're keeping their word: According to analysts the Saudis produced an extra 300,000 barrels a day, and that sufficed to satisfy buyers. America certainly didn't need extra: We started off this year with 333,112,000 barrels of oil on hand and a week ago we had 359,300,000 barrels. Some shortage.
Leave it to Bank of America to issue a completely different forecast for oil on the 13th of this month, giving the possibility that oil could hit $160 a barrel sometime this year a 30 percent chance of happening. Now the waters are truly muddied. One investment bank claims speculators have put crude oil into bubble territory and it's time to bail; but another investment bank suggests it's time to load up on oil as the price will go even higher - even though the Saudis say buyers are turning down available oil.
If anyone actually knew what was going on in the crude oil market, you wouldn't have these so-called experts taking diametrically opposite positions.
Let's Blamestorm
So, whom do we blame for all this confusion - or for the average American family's having to shell out $700 to $1,000 more this year for gasoline, while American Airlines claims it's now in another fuel crisis? Well, as with 2008, let's quit blaming China.
Last year China imported just 4.79 million barrels of oil per day. And according to China Daily, official government figures show that they're importing only 5 percent more oil this year, or 239,000 barrels more per day. Moreover, China has raised bank rates twice this year in an attempt to cool down the country's roaring economy. Both times that's happened, oil prices worldwide have declined slightly.
Who else could we blame? Certainly one could look at refinery utilization and find out exactly why gasoline supplies have fallen over the past two months, thereby raising the price of gas: Week before last we ran our refineries at only 81.4 percent of capacity - only 39 percent utilization on the East Coast. That's less than in the first week of April 2009, the bottom of the economy's crash after the meltdown, when our refineries ran at just 81.8 percent of capacity. When demand falls so should prices, instead refiners make less; for them to keep making a profit, supply can't outstrip demand.
Now let's look at the big picture to see why gasoline prices are so incredibly high. Remember that our refinery utilization last week was only 81.4 percent? In the same week in 2005 it sat at 93.7 percent, and as a result we had 212.2 million barrels of gasoline on hand. And even at that exceptional refining rate, three weeks later we were down by almost 1 million barrels. And now, even though since the first of this year we have dropped our gasoline inventories from 223.2 million barrels to 209.7 million, we still have only slightly less gasoline on hand than we had the same week of April in 2005, during a blistering economy - although our refineries then were running at nearly 10 percent greater utilization.
So Why the Price?
No matter how many of his Fed presidents claim they are not to blame for the high price of oil, the real problem starts with Ben Bernanke. The fact is that when you flood the market with far too much liquidity and at virtually no interest, funny things happen in commodities and equities. It was true in the 1920s, it was true in the last decade, and it's still true today.
Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Federal Reserve, spoke in Germany in late March. Reuters quoted him as saying, "We are seeing speculative activity that may be exacerbating price rises in commodities such as oil." He added that he was seeing the signs of the same speculative trading that fueled the first financial meltdown reappearing.
Here Fisher is in good company. Kansas City Fed President Thomas Hoening, who has been a vocal critic of the current Fed policy of zero interest and high liquidity, has suggested that markets don't function correctly under those circumstances. And David Stockman, Ronald Reagan's Budget Director, recently wrote a scathing article for MarketWatch, titled "Federal Reserve's Path of Destruction," in which he criticizes current Fed policy even more pointedly. Stockman wrote, "This destruction is, namely, the exploitation of middle class savers; the current severe food and energy squeeze on lower income households ... and the next round of bursting bubbles building up among the risk asset classes."
Let's not kid ourselves. Oil in today's world is worth far more than the $25 a barrel it sold for a decade ago. But the markets' ability to function properly, based on real supply and demand equations, has been destroyed by allowing ridiculous leverage amounts, and unlimited ability to borrow the leverage at historic low interest rates.
Fortunately for our elected officials, they've got the public convinced that their biggest fear from government is taxation and deficits. That keeps us from getting more productively enraged about the rising costs of non-discretionary items such as food and gasoline - which current Fed policy is actively enabling.
No One is on the Public's Side
This isn't a new argument; it dates as far back as 1979, when Paul Volcker, then head of the Federal Reserve, started moving to stop inflation in its tracks. The Carter White House mused that one of the benefits that raising interest rates would confer on the public would be slowing down the speculators in the oil market, who were taking advantage of that year's turmoil in the Middle East.
The economy is getting better, and that's a good thing. And, though some claim gasoline could potentially go to $5 a gallon this summer, that's not a given. Also good news is that quickly rising oil prices, like a slasher movie, are only truly frightening the first time. It gets less scary with repetition.
Being less scary doesn't change the basic facts. Markets need both hedgers and speculators to function properly, but when the balance gets too far off in one direction, the market no longer functions on real supply and demand equations.
Ben Bernanke doesn't seem to understand that while he is allowing huge profits for banks and investment firms, so they can recover their massive losses from the financial meltdown, he is intentionally damaging what could be a much better recovery with the misery he's causing the average American consumer.
Or maybe he does understand that. After all, there's always China to blame.
Correction: In last week's column on Visionaries, I should have inserted the word "animated" into Disney's accomplishments in both color and widescreen films. Both improvements had already occurred in live action films.
© 2010 Ed Wallace


Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/04/22/3020546/oil-were-being-had-again.html#ixzz1KV95O8FX

[slcdragonfan]

Excellent article. I am a big fan of Wallace but haven't read him lately (we stopped taking the daily paper). Thanks for posting that, I always find his articles thought-provoking.

It certainly is an eye opener, I had not considered the easy money policy as a possible catalyst to the oil price situation. I understand why it was set so low, but perhaps it is time to act before we get stagflation back.

And by the way, Volcker was a very courageous Fed Chair. he was the best thing Jimmy Carter ever did. And if you recall, prime reaching 21% killed the price inflation in housing and oil and pretty much everything else. Houston pretty much died (while the rest of the country came back).

[Dawg Fan]

Excellent article. I am a big fan of Wallace but haven't read him lately (we stopped taking the daily paper). Thanks for posting that, I always find his articles thought-provoking.

It certainly is an eye opener, I had not considered the easy money policy as a possible catalyst to the oil price situation. I understand why it was set so low, but perhaps it is time to act before we get stagflation back.

And by the way, Volcker was a very courageous Fed Chair. he was the best thing Jimmy Carter ever did. And if you recall, prime reaching 21% killed the price inflation in housing and oil and pretty much everything else. Houston pretty much died (while the rest of the country came back).

The country came back when there was a 21% prime interest rate?

[drgnbkr]

The country came back when there was a 21% prime interest rate?

No...The newly created misery index was at an all time high and was only relieved when Carter went home to the peanut farm.

[Dawg Fan]

No...The newly created misery index was at an all time high and was only relieved when Carter went home to the peanut farm.

Carter was the worst president in my lifetime but he is getting strong competition to get knocked off the that mountain right now.

[chhspantherfan]

We discussed this several years ago and ranted about ICE and the lack of regs since the move. This is a contrived effort that a " buy a Prius" mentality wont cure the issue only exacerbate it

The answer is in domestic production and refinery expansion IMO

[drgnbkr]

We discussed this several years ago and ranted about ICE and the lack of regs since the move. This is a contrived effort that a " buy a Prius" mentality wont cure the issue only exacerbate it

The answer is in domestic production and refinery expansion IMO

This! Add in Coal, nuclear and natural gas as strategy...What a concept! Nothing wrong with adding in wind..Solar isn't there yet and won't be for a while. Air conditioned golf carts? Right...:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

Carter was the worst president in my lifetime but he is getting strong competition to get knocked off the that mountain right now.

Obama has really kicked it in gear and has a strong shot to unseat peanut head.

[slcdragonfan]

The country came back when there was a 21% prime interest rate?

Yes. We were suffering from stagflation, do you remember? Inflation and a stagnant economy. But no one had the cojones to do what it took.....until Volcker. He basically drove speculation out of the markets (housing and others) and drove down demand. It was painful, but by 1983 had set the stage for a great bull market.

No...The newly created misery index was at an all time high and was only relieved when Carter went home to the peanut farm.

yes, the misery index was high, and it was high well into Reagan's term as well. Reagan's "economic miracle" occurred because of Volcker IMO. Once inflation was defeated it was smooth sailing. Of course deficit spending during the Reagan years helped lift us out of that misery index. :)

[slcdragonfan]

We discussed this several years ago and ranted about ICE and the lack of regs since the move. This is a contrived effort that a " buy a Prius" mentality wont cure the issue only exacerbate it

The answer is in domestic production and refinery expansion IMO

i just read the article you posted this morning and he refuted the domestic production conundrum. do you disagree with Wallace?

I would agree with refinery expansion and domestic production, but neither really fix the problem. The Bernancke (sp?) issue is a more subtle but possibly more relevant solution to address.

[chhspantherfan]

i just read the article you posted this morning and he refuted the domestic production conundrum. do you disagree with Wallace?

I would agree with refinery expansion and domestic production, but neither really fix the problem. The Bernancke (sp?) issue is a more subtle but possibly more relevant solution to address.

I guess I should have included my
deportation strategy in there also

[the_phoenix612]

Yes. We were suffering from stagflation, do you remember? Inflation and a stagnant economy. But no one had the cojones to do what it took.....until Volcker. He basically drove speculation out of the markets (housing and others) and drove down demand. It was painful, but by 1983 had set the stage for a great bull market.



yes, the misery index was high, and it was high well into Reagan's term as well. Reagan's "economic miracle" occurred because of Volcker IMO. Once inflation was defeated it was smooth sailing. Of course deficit spending during the Reagan years helped lift us out of that misery index. :)
Everyone knows its illegal to mention Reagan's deficit spending. You take that back, he was a saint!

[chhspantherfan]

Answer this. What is the price of gas in dubai? Tijuana? Mexico City?

[chhspantherfan]

Everyone knows its illegal to mention Reagan's deficit spending. You take that back, he was a saint!


There you are

How are those coherent comments working for you?:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

Yes. We were suffering from stagflation, do you remember? Inflation and a stagnant economy. But no one had the cojones to do what it took.....until Volcker. He basically drove speculation out of the markets (housing and others) and drove down demand. It was painful, but by 1983 had set the stage for a great bull market.



yes, the misery index was high, and it was high well into Reagan's term as well. Reagan's "economic miracle" occurred because of Volcker IMO. Once inflation was defeated it was smooth sailing. Of course deficit spending during the Reagan years helped lift us out of that misery index. :)

Cutting taxes stimulated investment...Boom MF!:p

[slcdragonfan]

Answer this. What is the price of gas in dubai? Tijuana? Mexico City?

I dinna know, BUT:

t's true that rail traffic is up in America - a sure sign of a strengthening economy - and it's equally true that cargo shipments worldwide are back to pre-Great Recession volumes. However, MasterCard and other oil analysts are saying that our gasoline usage has dropped anywhere from 3 - 3.7 percent over the past five weeks. For a country that sometimes burns 400 million gallons of gasoline a day, that's no small drop

America certainly didn't need extra: We started off this year with 333,112,000 barrels of oil on hand and a week ago we had 359,300,000 barrels. Some shortage.

Certainly one could look at refinery utilization and find out exactly why gasoline supplies have fallen over the past two months, thereby raising the price of gas: Week before last we ran our refineries at only 81.4 percent of capacity - only 39 percent utilization on the East Coast. That's less than in the first week of April 2009, the bottom of the economy's crash after the meltdown, when our refineries ran at just 81.8 percent of capacity. When demand falls so should prices, instead refiners make less; for them to keep making a profit, supply can't outstrip demand.

Now let's look at the big picture to see why gasoline prices are so incredibly high. Remember that our refinery utilization last week was only 81.4 percent? In the same week in 2005 it sat at 93.7 percent, and as a result we had 212.2 million barrels of gasoline on hand. And even at that exceptional refining rate, three weeks later we were down by almost 1 million barrels. And now, even though since the first of this year we have dropped our gasoline inventories from 223.2 million barrels to 209.7 million, we still have only slightly less gasoline on hand than we had the same week of April in 2005, during a blistering economy - although our refineries then were running at nearly 10 percent greater utilization.
So Why the Price?

Seems to me supply&demand are not the factor here. since reducing demand (first quote) does not reduce the price, why would increasing supply?

But, that said, mojotrain has indicated that they are ****-to-the-wall drilling in the Permian basin. natural gas production is so high that the price is very low (it IS responding to markets).

I know we have to produce, but I doubt that lack of domestic production in the US is what is keeping the price high.

[slcdragonfan]

Cutting taxes stimulated investment...Boom MF!:p

cutting taxes resulted in deficit spending which did stimulate investment, is that what you are saying? so you now support deficit spending? BOOM back!
:)

Of course that bird has come home to roost now, 25 years later.

[drgnbkr]

cutting taxes resulted in deficit spending which did stimulate investment, is that what you are saying? so you now support deficit spending? BOOM back!
:)

Of course that bird has come home to roost now, 25 years later.

The government will spend whether they have the money or not. Lowering taxes stimulated business investment as opposed to the failed fed stimulus program under big O, which seems to have been largely a "save the unions" deal...At least at GM, which the govt. will lose billions of taxpayer money on. We've heard all about the proverbial "chickens coming home to roost":p We need a Reagan right now in a big way!

[slcdragonfan]

The government will spend whether they have the money or not. Lowering taxes stimulated business investment as opposed to the failed fed stimulus program under big O, which seems to have been largely a "save the unions" deal...At least at GM, which the govt. will lose billions of taxpayer money on. We've heard all about the proverbial "chickens coming home to roost":p We need a Reagan right now in a big way!

It was deficit spending. He did NOT concomitantly reduce spending at the same time he reduced taxes, he actually INCREASED spending and reduced taxes. Sure, that is stimulative. It is also a recipe for disaster. If you decrease income (taxes), you should reduce spending at the same time, right? So, Obama = Bush = Reagan when it comes to low taxes and deficit spending. All the same party, the political party.

So far, the best combination I have seen is a Republican Congress and a Democrat President. When you have a Republican President and a Democrat Congress, not as good. Both the same party? Sux.

Reagan doesn't have 25 years for the bird to come roost, the bird is here now and we have to deal with the consequences of actions taken the previous 3-5 decades.

[drgnbkr]

It was deficit spending. He did NOT concomitantly reduce spending at the same time he reduced taxes, he actually INCREASED spending and reduced taxes. Sure, that is stimulative. It is also a recipe for disaster. If you decrease income (taxes), you should reduce spending at the same time, right? So, Obama = Bush = Reagan when it comes to low taxes and deficit spending. All the same party, the political party.

So far, the best combination I have seen is a Republican Congress and a Democrat President. When you have a Republican President and a Democrat Congress, not as good. Both the same party? Sux.

Reagan doesn't have 25 years for the bird to come roost, the bird is here now and we have to deal with the consequences of actions taken the previous 3-5 decades.

Reagan followed Carter and turned misery into huge economic growth...Even while fighting the headwinds of a Dem congress. He didn't need 25 years. The chicken coop was turned upside down this past November and will be cleansed in 2012....Including the head chicken...:D

[slcdragonfan]

Reagan followed Carter and turned misery into huge economic growth...Even while fighting the headwinds of a Dem congress. He didn't need 25 years. The chicken coop was turned upside down this past November and will be cleansed in 2012....Including the head chicken...:D

I refer you to the following charts (forgive me for not using the charts and graphs thread):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/US_Debt_Trend.svg/463px-US_Debt_Trend.svg.png

Please take particular note of the period from 1983-1992 on the bottom half.

In the top half, take particular note of the same time period and from 2000-2006 or so.

Don't tell me the Republicans are financial saviors of this country, the data indicates otherwise. If people would just look at the facts, they might actually see this is pretty much a bipartisan fail, with the Republicans being a big part of it. Particularly the beloved Ronnie.

[drgnbkr]

I refer you to the following charts (forgive me for not using the charts and graphs thread):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/US_Debt_Trend.svg/463px-US_Debt_Trend.svg.png

Please take particular note of the period from 1983-1992 on the bottom half.

In the top half, take particular note of the same time period and from 2000-2006 or so.

Don't tell me the Republicans are financial saviors of this country, the data indicates otherwise. If people would just look at the facts, they might actually see this is pretty much a bipartisan fail, with the Republicans being a big part of it. Particularly the beloved Ronnie.

So you didn't like the good times, you want to give the congress more money to blow in the form of higher taxes, and you like wikipedia....:p Failure is bi-partisan deal, no doubt...the dems just happen to be more adept. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a troll....But I do know better.;)

[slcdragonfan]

So you didn't like the good times, you want to give the congress more money to blow in the form of higher taxes, and you like wikipedia....:p If I didn't know better I'd think you were a troll....But I do know better.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swq72KRuwUk

:D

I just want a realistic view of what it takes, if we are going to place blame then a realistic view of who (all) is responsible, and sensible solutions.

I am fine with slashing like a bandit, as long the stuff I like is cut, I want stuff I don't like cut too.

I am fine with keeping taxes low, I understand with a weak economy that raising taxes right now is not necessarily a good idea, but conversely it is the wide open throttle at the Fed that is ALSO attempting to assist the weak economy but increasing inflation (gas prices???). Ultimately, we cannot cut enough to remove the deficit. Unless we do not want a strong military, or any social safety net (Medicaid, etc), we are going to have to increase taxes.

I am just looking for acknowledgment of that, and some, however slight, removal of the partisanship. ;)

We got in this mess due to a full court press by our politicians over the past 25-50 years (think back to LBJ). Blaming only the Democrats for problems that have been building over that period of time is just wrong. As is blaming just the Republicans.

In fact, I have met the enemy, and he is us. WE elect these people, WE get what we want, WE don't force accountability.


Come on baby let the good times roll
Come on baby let me thrill your soul..
Come on baby let the good times roll..
Roll all night long...

[drgnbkr]

Just a couple of quick points:
The landslide in November produced what the majority of voters wanted; repeal of obamacare, slashing spending by government, the Ryan budget proposal. We still need lots of help on the domestic energy front with the gov standing in the way at almost every turn: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/energy-america-oil-drilling-denial/ If you can use wiki, I'll happily use fair and balanced...

[slcdragonfan]

Just a couple of quick points:
The landslide in November produced what the majority of voters wanted; repeal of obamacare, slashing spending by government, the Ryan budget proposal. We still need lots of help on the domestic energy front with the gov standing in the way at almost every turn: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/energy-america-oil-drilling-denial/ If you can use wiki, I'll happily use fair and balanced...

Here's my preferred version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXZDPO7Ar0&feature=related

Hey, American Thinker has been used, why not Fox, wiki, and the NY Times? Fire all the missiles... :D

I like the harmonica part....I can play that.....

[drgnbkr]

Here's my preferred version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXZDPO7Ar0&feature=related

Hey, American Thinker has been used, why not Fox, wiki, and the NY Times? Fire all the missiles... :D

I like the harmonica part....I can play that.....

Nillson Schmillson was one of the great albums! I love "Jump into the fire" Which is what we did in 08....:p

[drgnbkr]

Here's my preferred version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXZDPO7Ar0&feature=related

Hey, American Thinker has been used, why not Fox, wiki, and the NY Times? Fire all the missiles... :D

I like the harmonica part....I can play that.....

Nillson Schmillson was one of the great albums! I love "Jump into the fire" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QghwNqlCRE Which is what we did in 08....:p

[slcdragonfan]

Nillson Schmillson was one of the great albums! I love "Jump into the fire" Which is what we did in 08....:p


:rofl:

Yep, one of my favorites as well.

[Dawg Fan]

Everyone knows its illegal to mention Reagan's deficit spending. You take that back, he was a saint!

were you even born when he was in office? Didn't think so but I am sure you know it all from your books :rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

were you even born when he was in office? Didn't think so but I am sure you know it all from your books :rolleyes:

After Carter, Reagan was at least a Saint!:p

[chhspantherfan]

Take a look at Sept 2012 futures and tell me gas prices won be used to win election

[DrEdward]

I refer you to the following charts (forgive me for not using the charts and graphs thread):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/78/US_Debt_Trend.svg/463px-US_Debt_Trend.svg.png

Please take particular note of the period from 1983-1992 on the bottom half.

In the top half, take particular note of the same time period and from 2000-2006 or so.

Don't tell me the Republicans are financial saviors of this country, the data indicates otherwise. If people would just look at the facts, they might actually see this is pretty much a bipartisan fail, with the Republicans being a big part of it. Particularly the beloved Ronnie.

Have one of these for the party in control of the Congress? (You don't have to provide it, I already know what it looks like.)

It is absolutely true that under Reagan, the U.S. moved from the tax and spend/monetarize the debt and spend world left to us under Jimmy Carter to a borrow and spend model. He did so to break the horrible cycle of inflation and inflationary expectations that had been rolled into the U.S. economy. RR also began to simultaneously rebuild the U.S. armed forces which had been left in pretty bad shape during the 70s. Now we are facing an administration that has been a record-setter when it comes to borrow and spend in combination with monetarizing the debt, but now also wants to add additional taxation levels back into the model without reducing the spending. But the common thread in all of these is the spending and the expansion of federal government power which has just gone wild over the past decade, especially since about 2005. We are currently seeing the effects of the monetary policies in the price we are paying for oil.

[mad_fan]

This shouldn't even be a thread...
Bush investigated...and prices fell...
Obama is investigating...and...I'll go out on a limb...prices will fall sometime in the future...
See???
Cause and effect...
Government investigations lead to lower prices...:D

[mad_fan]

Answer this. What is the price of gas in dubai? Tijuana? Mexico City?

Good point...if oil were priced in pesos we'd look at this recent increase more objectively...and understand foreign currency markets better...

[rwilleby]

http://71.18.173.27/Control.jpg

[smw358]

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2011/04/26/10/360-judge04-26-11.standalone.prod_affiliate.4.jpg

:rolleyes:

[mad_fan]

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2011/04/26/10/360-judge04-26-11.standalone.prod_affiliate.4.jpg

:rolleyes:

I'd hate to see what happens when milk hits $4 a gallon...
No corner store will be safe...

[SV61]

I'd hate to see what happens when milk hits $4 a gallon...
No corner store will be safe...

Was it last summer, or two summers ago, when Milk spiked?

It's comin again. Oil goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.

Trains may be electric, but the electicity is generated using diesel.

[chhspantherfan]

as I have posted before, this is the problem............from this morning's Startlegram



Here's what's credible: Some 70 percent of contracts for future oil delivery are now bought by financial speculators -- largely big investment banks and hedge funds -- who never take control of the oil. They just flip the contract for a quick profit.
Only about 30 percent of oil contracts are bought by a purchaser that actually intends to use the oil, such as an airline. That's according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates trade in those contracts.
"I'm convinced ... that speculators are actively manipulating" prices, said Michael Greenberger, a University of Maryland law professor who in the 1990s headed the commission's trading division.
"It's harder and harder for any reasonable observer to dismiss the role of excessive speculation in this market," said Michael Masters, a professional Wall Street investor who knows how this game works. He's testified before Congress repeatedly that speculators are pushing prices up well beyond what supply and demand would warrant..........


........."The sheer volume of new capital coming from hedge funds, financial traders and other long-term passive investors -- interests that mostly buy oil futures to turn a quick profit -- is creating artificial demand and driving up the price for consumers," said Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., in a statement accompanying a letter that she and 16 other U.S. senators issued Thursday. They, like Greenberger and Masters, urge the commission to impose rules limiting speculators' ability to do this.
Masters and Greenberger advocate a return to limits that prevailed for much of the past century. Those limits effectively reined in speculation to about 30 percent of the oil market.
"We need some speculation. We need enough to provide grease for the wheels of the hedgers, but not so much that they drive price formation," Masters said.
A McClatchy review of two decades of data compiled by the commission documents the boom in speculative trading amid rising prices.
In the 1990s, the ratio of speculative trades to trades made by commercial users of oil was tilted heavily toward users of crude. But from 1991 forward, the big financial players such as Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan Chase won exemptions that freed them from limits on how much they could speculate in futures markets.
They became classified as commercial traders, as if they were an airline hedging price risks in jet fuel. The big banks needed to invest in futures contracts to hedge bets they made in the unregulated swaps market. And the government was happy to reduce regulations on markets. Oil "swaps" increased from $13 billion in the 1990s to more than $313 billion in July 2008 at oil's peak price, Greenberger said.


Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/13/3074530/whos-to-blame-for-high-gasoline.html#ixzz1MQirMAuF

[drgnbkr]

Obama is finally getting the message...As his miniscule bounce fades away....House already passed bill to stop impeding production and exploration..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/us/politics/15address.html?_r=2&hp

[twcpfan1]

Obama is finally getting the message...As his miniscule bounce fades away....House already passed bill to stop impeding production and exploration..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/us/politics/15address.html?_r=2&hp

Not looking good for you is it. Looks like you got the black dude for another 4 years.

[drgnbkr]

Not looking good for you is it. Looks like you got the black dude for another 4 years.

:rofl: Obama's approval's are sinking like the titanic he is.....He will call himself a conservative evangelical if he thinks it might get him a vote.:D But, you're right, I'm liking me some Herman "The Herminator" Cain!

[rwilleby]

:rofl: Obama's approval's are sinking like the titanic he is.....He will call himself a conservative evangelical if he thinks it might get him a vote.:D But, you're right, I'm liking me some Herman "The Herminator" Cain!

Ha! Run, Herman, Run! :heli:

[twcpfan1]

:rofl: Obama's approval's are sinking like the titanic he is.....He will call himself a conservative evangelical if he thinks it might get him a vote.:D But, you're right, I'm liking me some Herman "The Herminator" Cain!

Keep thinking you will have a Republican in the White House in 2012. I still don't know who I'm voting for but all things considered, I'm not liking the GOP's chances. I'm certainly not as confident as you seem to be.

[drgnbkr]

Keep thinking you will have a Republican in the White House in 2012. I still don't know who I'm voting for but all things considered, I'm not liking the GOP's chances. I'm certainly not as confident as you seem to be.

Everyone gets an opinion, but the vast majority seems to find something they don't like with the dems as the Nov. elections proved. That's really all we have to go on for now, other than obamas spiraling debt, unemployment, failed obamacare and spending...Oh, and absolutely no plan on illegal immigration and energy..Unless you call plugging in a Chevy Volt for it's 40 mile drive a plan.

[chhspantherfan]

Everyone gets an opinion, but the vast majority seems to find something they don't like with the dems as the Nov. elections proved. That's really all we have to go on for now, other than obamas spiraling debt, unemployment, failed obamacare and spending...Oh, and absolutely no plan on illegal immigration and energy..Unless you call plugging in a Chevy Volt for it's 40 mile drive a plan.

1700 of those Volts on the road now:rolleyes:

[slorch]

because plugging in a car doesn't use any fossil fuels, does it?

[slcdragonfan]

hybrids make sense, but all-electrics are the Fluorescent bulb of the car industry. They won't sell unless heavily subsidized or unless technology (batteries) makes a great leap forward.

[drgnbkr]

1700 of those Volts on the road now:rolleyes:

Before obama trashed the economy and took over GM Chevy could sell that many cars at one dealership in a month.

[chhspantherfan]

Before obama trashed the economy and took over GM Chevy could sell that many cars at one dealership in a month.

Classic in Grapevine is #1 in the country and does around 500 units per month. Don't overstate it

[drgnbkr]

Classic in Grapevine is #1 in the country and does around 500 units per month. Don't overstate it

Dang it, I hate it when you do that...:D Point is the all electric car is an air conditioned golf cart and isn't ready for prime time yet if ever.

[mad_fan]

So...just saw former Queen Nancy on Larry Kudlow...and she sounded...Republican...
I guess Obama called her...
Drill baby drill...
...
This is in no way related to popularity polls or elections...
:rolleyes:

[mad_fan]

Not looking good for you is it. Looks like you got the black dude for another 4 years.

I sure wish they'd stick to football and basketball where there type excel...
:rolleyes:

[twcpfan1]

I sure wish they'd stick to football and basketball where there type excel...
:rolleyes:

I keep telling yankee they can't shoot :D

[mad_fan]

I keep telling yankee they can't shoot:D

They can shoot...making the child support payments is a different issue...:)

[chhspantherfan]

below are excerpts from http://www.cnbc.com/id/43645073


The WTI August futures contract broke above its 200-day moving average of $96.18.

"I think we could probably test that $100 mark again. I also think for it to be sustained up there, you'd have to have something a little more going on, like geopolitical problems or some demand pickup," said Anthony Grisanti, president of GRZ Energy.

Another bullish technical message was also at work for WTI. "There was an inverse head and shoulders on the charts, with the neckline at $96 (WTI)," said Michael Fitzpatrick, editor of the Energy Overview newsletter.

"We tested there several times...It formed a head around $88 to $90."

"It means that we've come a long way since those big sell offs in early May, and the bears are starting to lose some of their power, and the momentum is shifting back toward the bulls," said Fitzpatrick.

He said the market reacted positively to the Greek debt deal, and WTI could head to the $102 range. "That pushed it back toward technical levels and momentum just took over," he said.

But the market faces other near term hurdles, including Friday's June jobs report, widely expected to be weak.

Armstrong believes the IEA and U.S. Department of Energy could dip back into reserves to try to control rising prices. The IEA said the initial release was to make up for lost Libyan production. But Fitzpatrick said the criticism against the move was significant enough to crimp further actions.

---------------------------------

We have talked at times of the effect that speculators have on the price as they have only the paper. I just don't get how they don't let the market drive the price. There are three components to get it to market, driller, refiner, distributor, and that is it. Ancillary transportation companies and the like are a by-product of those three and create entrepreneurial opportunities. Instead of simply trading paper, they should get in the chain some where. Put that money to real use, not artificially controlling the market. Ultimately, making the consumer(paying pain at the pump) shoulder the load. So, when we see these high prices, what to do? -panther

--------------------------------


FROM THE RIGHT--

A few weeks ago, the Obama Administration announced it would release 30 million barrels of oil from the nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The United States consumes about 20 million barrels a day, so that wasn’t a very large oil infusion, and since the SPR contains only 726 million barrels, it’s no substitute for a steady supply of domestic oil. The only reason for the Administration’s move was to generate a little positive press coverage with a modest dip in the price of oil.

Like all government “stimulus” programs, the effects of the SPR release were temporary. The price of oil dropped by about five dollars per barrel… but two weeks later, the price is right back where it started. In fact, it’s a little higher than it was on the day of the release. Supposedly negative public reaction has convinced the Administration not to try this gimmick again.

This is merely the latest demonstration of a principle that statists refuse to accept: the government cannot efficiently allocate demand. It can suppress demand through various means, but it doesn’t really go away. A quick “stimulus” of oil did nothing to change the high demand for fuel, or our inability to meet it with domestic sources.

Another widely discussed statist trick is suppressing demand by raising the price of oil artificially, through a heavy new gas tax. The CEO of General Motors made headlines last month with this very suggestion, in the hopes that consumers would be willing to buy more expensive and undesirable high-efficiency cars, if gas became more expensive.

In this scenario, the demand for gas doesn’t really dissipate. People still want to drive, and they’d rather not cram themselves into unsafe, unappealing little econo-boxes that don’t have room for their families and groceries. As gas becomes more expensive, however, the cost of travel becomes greater than the perceived cost of canceling other activities. People stop making “unnecessary” recreational trips. They go out less often, and make fewer long journeys. At the margins, people who can’t afford vehicles that meet expensive new CAFE fuel-efficiency standards don’t buy cars at all.

This has the effect of shifting the demand for travel into a less economically productive configuration. There is less shopping. Fewer new cars are purchased. Industries that depend on affordable short-distance travel, such as deliveries, suffer from dwindling sales.

People want to drive, oil companies want to sell fuel, and auto companies want to sell appealing cars. Instead of allowing supply and demand to meet organically, the government is distorting them… and unleashing forces much too powerful to sedate with a few million barrels of oil from the strategic reserve.

It could be said that one of the deadly flaws of statists is their inability to appreciate just how powerful demand can be. They see a delicate fountain they can adjust with ideological precision, when the reality is more like a surging ocean, and it is far more than 30 million barrels deep. link (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=44678)


------------------------------------


FROM THE LEFT--

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=democrats+on+gas+prices#q=democrats+on+gas+price s&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=nws&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d3aad7ef1da12445&biw=1024&bih=653


--------------------------------------


food for thought, and someone please tell me what the Dem plan is besides releasing more oil that speculators can buy. That's right, some of that released oil was purchased by speculators. Now how does that ease the pain at the pump?

[RedRage00]

A full tank of gas has been lasting me nearly 2 weeks. I don't know if that says I'm a loser and need to get out more often or what LOL

I believe the difference is that I now work 8.5 miles (1 way) from home compared to the 20 miles (1 way) when I lived in Dallas and had to drive to the waste land known as Arlington. There was no way in hell I was living in Arlington so I commuted.

[chhspantherfan]

and who says that the government doesn't read this forum:cool:


Senior administration officials who put together the proposal said it aims to detect and deter illegal manipulation by energy speculators, the type of practices that many Democrats blame for the high cost of gasoline. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the plan ahead of Obama's announcement.
They would not go as far as to say that market manipulation is responsible for rising gas prices, but the officials said they wanted to curtail the ability of speculators to take unlawful advantage of oil price volatility.
At issue is the increasing role of investment in oil futures contracts by pension funds, mutual funds, hedge funds, exchange traded funds and other investors. Much of that money is betting that oil prices will rise. Analysts say it is possible that such speculation has somewhat inflated the price of oil.
At the same time, investors can also bet that prices will go down -- indeed, speculators have been credited for low natural gas prices. Studies of the effects of speculation on oil markets indicate that it probably increases volatility, but doesn't have a major effect on average prices.
Still, seeing a potential problem with speculators is not limited to Obama or Democrats or this election season. When gasoline hit $3 a gallon in 2006, George W. Bush launched an investigation, declaring Americans "don't want and will not accept ... manipulation of the market. And neither will I." Last year, as prices rose, Obama and Holder announced the creation of a task force to look into fraud in the energy markets.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/17/obama-to-pitch-52m-plan-to-regulate-oil-markets/?test=latestnews#ixzz1sImzBl4O

[slcdragonfan]

and who says that the government doesn't read this forum:cool:


Senior administration officials who put together the proposal said it aims to detect and deter illegal manipulation by energy speculators, the type of practices that many Democrats blame for the high cost of gasoline. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the plan ahead of Obama's announcement.
They would not go as far as to say that market manipulation is responsible for rising gas prices, but the officials said they wanted to curtail the ability of speculators to take unlawful advantage of oil price volatility.
At issue is the increasing role of investment in oil futures contracts by pension funds, mutual funds, hedge funds, exchange traded funds and other investors. Much of that money is betting that oil prices will rise. Analysts say it is possible that such speculation has somewhat inflated the price of oil.
At the same time, investors can also bet that prices will go down -- indeed, speculators have been credited for low natural gas prices. Studies of the effects of speculation on oil markets indicate that it probably increases volatility, but doesn't have a major effect on average prices.
Still, seeing a potential problem with speculators is not limited to Obama or Democrats or this election season. When gasoline hit $3 a gallon in 2006, George W. Bush launched an investigation, declaring Americans "don't want and will not accept ... manipulation of the market. And neither will I." Last year, as prices rose, Obama and Holder announced the creation of a task force to look into fraud in the energy markets.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/17/obama-to-pitch-52m-plan-to-regulate-oil-markets/?test=latestnews#ixzz1sImzBl4O

As for natural gas, I suspect true oversupply is the root cause of the extremely low price. As far as alternate energy, it would be nice to find some way to use it more broadly. Also, exporting it appears to be an option, although exporting natural gas overseas is much more challenging than oil due to its nature.

[slcdragonfan]

In regards to natural gas:

Can natural gas drive the U.S. economy? (http://news.yahoo.com/natural-gas-drive-u-economy-124200553.html)

[chhspantherfan]

In regards to natural gas:

Can natural gas drive the U.S. economy? (http://news.yahoo.com/natural-gas-drive-u-economy-124200553.html)

Cummins Westport thinks so
http://www.cumminswestport.com/images/islg.png

[ALLENFANDINGO5]

As for natural gas, I suspect true oversupply is the root cause of the extremely low price. As far as alternate energy, it would be nice to find some way to use it more broadly. Also, exporting it appears to be an option, although exporting natural gas overseas is much more challenging than oil due to its nature.
Employ a ton of people to build a trans-Atlantic pipeline. Two birds with one stone maybe?

[slcdragonfan]

Employ a ton of people to build a trans-Atlantic pipeline. Two birds with one stone maybe?

we'd probably use either illegal immigrants or outsource it to a Chinese consortium. :o

Truthfully, it might be an interesting idea. I wonder if we routed vial Greenland if it might actually be possible?

[slcdragonfan]

Hey!HeyHey!

Gas prices are down, heard it on the news tonight. Where is the congratulations to President Obama? Cause it was his fault they were going up, right? And he was supposed to do something, right? they are down, all hail the chief!!!!!

;););)

[Tom]

Hey!HeyHey!

Gas prices are down, heard it on the news tonight. Where is the congratulations to President Obama? Cause it was his fault they were going up, right? And he was supposed to do something, right? they are down, all hail the chief!!!!!

;););)

Nope.

When prices went up, that was Obama's fault. When prices go down, it's the free market. :D

[slcdragonfan]

Nope.

When prices went up, that was Obama's fault. When prices go down, it's the free market. :D

funny how that works. What next, Obama causes global warming? Oh, that's right, ain't no such thing. :D

She Blinded Me with Science (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o)

[mojotrain]

As for natural gas, I suspect true oversupply is the root cause of the extremely low price. As far as alternate energy, it would be nice to find some way to use it more broadly. Also, exporting it appears to be an option, although exporting natural gas overseas is much more challenging than oil due to its nature.

Maybe you are already aware but Natural gas, like propane, will liquify under pressure. Propane has been used as a combustible engine fuel for ages. Many farmers use it today in all types of their equipment. Propane burns cleaner than than what we use now and I don't know why Natural gas wouldn't burn just as clean. A high pressure jet of steam injected into the ignition point of natural gas and there is zero carbon emmission.:), however thats the case with any hydrocarbon or even coal.
In the 70s El Paso Natural gas built a refinery in Libia and began building 9(?) transport tankers to ferry liquidfied natural gas to our eastern ports to be piped throughout the country. Three were finished and the rest were in various stages of construction when Kadifi took over the refinery and the completed vessels. Thats the first time I lost my fannie plus fixtures.

[slcdragonfan]

Maybe you are already aware but Natural gas, like propane, will liquify under pressure. Propane has been used as a combustible engine fuel for ages. Many farmers use it today in all types of their equipment. Propane burns cleaner than than what we use now and I don't know why Natural gas wouldn't burn just as clean. A high pressure jet of steam injected into the ignition point of natural gas and there is zero carbon emmission.:), however thats the case with any hydrocarbon or even coal.
In the 70s El Paso Natural gas built a refinery in Libia and began building 9(?) transport tankers to ferry liquidfied natural gas to our eastern ports to be piped throughout the country. Three were finished and the rest were in various stages of construction when Kadifi took over the refinery and the completed vessels. Thats the first time I lost my fannie plus fixtures.

Maybe somebody should buy those 3 transport tankers and use them for American supply overseas...

[Dawg82]

Maybe somebody should buy those 3 transport tankers and use them for American supply overseas...FYI...
2 new LNG facilities have already received approval and are moving ahead with engineering. (1 in Texas & 1 in La.). You've got to have the terminals first and be able to convert to liquified form for shipment. This means "cryogenics" for laypeople.;)
Secondly, these are being built--as you correctly surmise--to export product for higher revenues. (This part is debatable depending on shipping costs, demurge, etc.) This will obviously have an effect on prices here in the U.S.

[slcdragonfan]

FYI...
2 new LNG facilities have already received approval and are moving ahead with engineering. (1 in Texas & 1 in La.). You've got to have the terminals first and be able to convert to liquified form for shipment. This means "cryogenics" for laypeople.;)
Secondly, these are being built--as you correctly surmise--to export product for higher revenues. (This part is debatable depending on shipping costs, demurge, etc.) This will obviously have an effect on prices here in the U.S.

Excellent. What is the timetable? Maybe gas futures are an investment opportunity? Right now, I have felt they will stay at the bottom for years...

[Dawg82]

Excellent. What is the timetable? Maybe gas futures are an investment opportunity? Right now, I have felt they will stay at the bottom for years...
Freeport LNG is approved and published. Engineering/design is proceeding. 2015 would be a conservative estimated timetable. Decent firm, high ROI depending on processing and shipping costs. If I was a betting man, might be something to look into...

La site I can't speak of yet as it hasn't formally been announced.

[mojotrain]

FYI...
2 new LNG facilities have already received approval and are moving ahead with engineering. (1 in Texas & 1 in La.). You've got to have the terminals first and be able to convert to liquified form for shipment. This means "cryogenics" for laypeople.;)
Secondly, these are being built--as you correctly surmise--to export product for higher revenues. (This part is debatable depending on shipping costs, demurge, etc.) This will obviously have an effect on prices here in the U.S.

Thank goodness they are being built in the USA. Trinity Industries and I took a hell of a hit on that El Paso adventure. Regarding the disposition of the El Paso tankers I believe those not completed may have been scrapped. Perhaps on a different note, last week, from Monday through Friday at any given time, from my 11th floor hotel room, 45 tanker/cargo ships could be seen lined up in the bay awaiting dock space. I'm sure some were for goods other than petro chemicals.

and then from the, I didn't know they mined iron ore in Korea department-- I have been buying 2" sch. 40 black pipe stamped "hecho en Korea for several months now. Suppose that would be the Northern part of Korea? Why would I not be shocked?

[slcdragonfan]

Thank goodness they are being built in the USA. Trinity Industries and I took a hell of a hit on that El Paso adventure. Regarding the disposition of the El Paso tankers I believe those not completed may have been scrapped. Perhaps on a different note, last week, from Monday through Friday at any given time, from my 11th floor hotel room, 45 tanker/cargo ships could be seen lined up in the bay awaiting dock space. I'm sure some were for goods other than petro chemicals.

and then from the, I didn't know they mined iron ore in Korea department-- I have been buying 2" sch. 40 black pipe stamped "hecho en Korea for several months now. Suppose that would be the Northern part of Korea? Why would I not be shocked?

Where are you mojotrain?

[RedRage00]

Nope.

When prices went up, that was Obama's fault. When prices go down, it's the free market. :D

bahahahaha

[mojotrain]

Where are you mojotrain?

Right Now?:o 600 yards East of Mojo High School and 800 yds West of the Buffalo Wallow. Last week from Monday through Friday, Guidos(?), Landrys, Saltgrass and Kemas Flying Duchman when I wasn't looking out the windows of room 1119 of the San Luis Resort in Galveston. Osyters every way you can imagine.

[chhspantherfan]

Right Now?:o 600 yards East of Mojo High School and 800 yds West of the Buffalo Wallow. Last week from Monday through Friday, Guidos(?), Landrys, Saltgrass and Kemas Flying Duchman when I wasn't looking out the windows of room 1119 of the San Luis Resort in Galveston. Oysters every way you can imagine.

I thought the gulf oyster beds were too damaged from the spill to eat them:cool:

[slcdragonfan]

I thought the gulf oyster beds were too damaged from the spill to eat them:cool:

mojotrain probably has so much oil in his blood he put oil into those oysters... :D

[Dawg82]

Right Now?:o 600 yards East of Mojo High School and 800 yds West of the Buffalo Wallow. Last week from Monday through Friday, Guidos(?), Landrys, Saltgrass and Kemas Flying Duchman when I wasn't looking out the windows of room 1119 of the San Luis Resort in Galveston. Osyters every way you can imagine.You could have stopped by...Heck, you should have found Stomp's or Tookies. (Tookies reopened now.) The boat was at Lakewood on Clear Lake...I can always use another deckhand.;)

[trojanbacker]

As for natural gas, I suspect true oversupply is the root cause of the extremely low price. As far as alternate energy, it would be nice to find some way to use it more broadly. Also, exporting it appears to be an option, although exporting natural gas overseas is much more challenging than oil due to its nature.

We could be an exporter of ng, but only in the liquified state. Unfortunately, we are still years away in terms of our ability to do this profitably. Heck, oil producers are flaring off ng in the North Dakota Shale right now because it doesn't make economic sense to transport it.

[Dawg82]

Thank goodness they are being built in the USA. Trinity Industries and I took a hell of a hit on that El Paso adventure. Regarding the disposition of the El Paso tankers I believe those not completed may have been scrapped. Perhaps on a different note, last week, from Monday through Friday at any given time, from my 11th floor hotel room, 45 tanker/cargo ships could be seen lined up in the bay awaiting dock space. I'm sure some were for goods other than petro chemicals.

and then from the, I didn't know they mined iron ore in Korea department-- I have been buying 2" sch. 40 black pipe stamped "hecho en Korea for several months now. Suppose that would be the Northern part of Korea? Why would I not be shocked?I wanted to comment on this earlier and missed it. I--for one--hadn't seen this! WOW!!! We have enough issues speccing & requing US ASME/ANSI standards. Many of our clients won't even accept Canadian material due to spec issues. (FRP, PVC, etc. are typically okay since no real standards exist.) Heaven forbid we get a quote and design from China or Mexico for a vessel, reactor, other major equipment. We always have to have someone at the point of entry to inspect and roughly 65-70% (coded pressure vessels) are rejected for quality issues.

[mojotrain]

I wanted to comment on this earlier and missed it. I--for one--hadn't seen this! WOW!!! We have enough issues speccing & requing US ASME/ANSI standards. Many of our clients won't even accept Canadian material due to spec issues. (FRP, PVC, etc. are typically okay since no real standards exist.) Heaven forbid we get a quote and design from China or Mexico for a vessel, reactor, other major equipment. We always have to have someone at the point of entry to inspect and roughly 65-70% (coded pressure vessels) are rejected for quality issues.

As of now our stuff is all low pressure thats all the few clients we have need. We have a IN to install our units on wells in the Laredo Area as well as Fort Stockton area. If we jump into those areas it would be a all new ball game. We're stonewall, simply not big enough. We, that is my son and his partner, can't do it. As it is, both with full time day jobs, after 18 months in business building the units in the evenings and weekends today can only complete one on a average of every 11 days. Thats @ a cost of 11,000.00 to 17,000.00 per unit on a unit that will return 600.00 to 12,00.00 per month. Cash flow is slow but getting much better. Now it only affords the help of two 70 plus year old men and a sister or two who wants to screw pipe together when they can't find something else to do. A code welder or two IMO is 12 to 18 months away.
Right now we would buy pipe, fittings, electric motors, compressors,valves and toliet paper from a 7-11 in Cut and Shoot if the price was right.

[mojotrain]

You could have stopped by...Heck, you should have found Stomp's or Tookies. (Tookies reopened now.) The boat was at Lakewood on Clear Lake...I can always use another deckhand.;)

:rofl: I'm kinda a refined guy. You just don't live in Odessa by Gosh Texas for 52 years and not be reeking with class. Those places sound like the places we passed where people were hanging out the windows.

Although I'm a inland (waaay inland) type person, the boat thing sounds good. A deckhand? At my age? My daughters bought me seat belts for my butt seat on my bass boat.

[Dawg82]

:rofl: I'm kinda a refined guy. You just don't live in Odessa by Gosh Texas for 52 years and not be reeking with class. Those places sound like the places we passed where people were hanging out the windows.

Although I'm a inland (waaay inland) type person, the boat thing sounds good. A deckhand? At my age? My daughters bought me seat belts for my butt seat on my bass boat.hehehe...Well, I can't take Carl. The darn glare off his head blinds me polorized sunglasses or not...:eek: