TX 5A DI/II Designation

[Shadow]

Admin:

What's the latest and greatest regarding definition/designation of TX 5A DI/II? Was discussing this w/scouts from SEC/P10 during looks at outstanding SLC Prostyle QB McElroy. It appears either I have lost touch w/TX high school football, he never had touch, or there are permutations and/or combinations most of us mortals are not aware of.

Thanx....

[implacable44]

I will refrain from any sarcastic comments with the choice adjectives used to describe a certain QB - but I must say it appears funny that someone would know what type of QB he is but not be familiar with the DI/DII classification and this just might be a weak attempt to start another Mcelroy SLC greatness thread?

[badger95]

The top three schools from each district make the playoffs. Of those three schools, the one that has the largest enrollment is designated as the Div. I Representative, while the other two go into the Div. II bracket.

[wide-e-wide]

Man that's reeeeeally complicated. How could one ever keep track with a system such as this? Kudos..for figuring that out badger...

not a shot at you badger....the other guy.

[SLCDad]

The top three schools from each district make the playoffs. Of those three schools, the one that has the largest enrollment is designated as the Div. I Representative, while the other two go into the Div. II bracket.This can cause some interesting wrinkles. For example, if the 3 smallest schools in a district make the playoffs the largest of the three would be Div. I even though it could be a relatively small school in it's classification (5A, 4A, . . .). Another wrinkle is that the Div I bracket may or may not include the top teams. In 2004, for example, most of the highest ranked teams went into Div. II.

[mad_fan]

wow such indepth analysis of such a complicated subject. i cant follow.

[badger95]

Man that's reeeeeally complicated. How could one ever keep track with a system such as this? Kudos..for figuring that out badger...

not a shot at you badger....the other guy.

understood. ;)

[SLCDad]

wow such indepth analysis of such a complicated subject. i cant follow.It's amazing the misconceptions that outsiders have regarding the Texas playoff system. To us it's simple but many from other places don't get it. Our system is a bit strange when you think about it.

Did you see the commercials regarding the Colerain and REL game? They talked about the battle of the large school champs from Ohio and Texas not understanding that REL was the division I champ but not the best champ in Texas.

I don't know if Shadow is legit or not, but knowing the wrinkles may be of help even though they are obvious to all of us.

[implacable44]

Well we dont know if Tyler was the best champ out of Texas because they didnt get a chance to play. we can only speculate about who the best champ was last year.

[KT2000]

Any playoff system that crowns more than one champion is completely defunct in my opinion.

I think yall know where I stand on this subject by now. *cough*Super Bracket*/cough* :)

[RidgePride]

Well we dont know if Tyler was the best champ out of Texas because they didnt get a chance to play. we can only speculate about who the best champ was last year.
We know they were not the best champs. Don't fool yourself

[implacable44]

I don't know anything until it is settled on the field. TCU didn't stand a chance against Oklahoma but they won. Detroit was supposed to be lambs to the Slaughter for the mighty Lakers 2 years ago - but they won - Villanova beat might G'town for the NCAA crown. The only way you can know is to play the game - hence the words of Katy2000.

[SLCDad]

I don't know anything until it is settled on the field. TCU didn't stand a chance against Oklahoma but they won. Detroit was supposed to be lambs to the Slaughter for the mighty Lakers 2 years ago - but they won - Villanova beat might G'town for the NCAA crown. The only way you can know is to play the game - hence the words of Katy2000.For all we know Highland Park or LaMarque are the best teams in the Texas right now and Highland Park may have the best football program of all time.

[SLCDad]

For all we know Highland Park or LaMarque are the best teams in the Texas right now and Highland Park may have the best football program of all time.Actually, I personally give that last distinction to another school I'm familiar with but, of course, we'll never know for sure. :D :D

[SLCDad]

Actually, I personally give that last distinction to another school I'm familiar with but, of course, we'll never know for sure. :D :DI enjoy talking to myself.

[Mad Hatter]

Wait you guys didnt win a title in 4a did you...hmm that says something. Ill tell ya what some of those 4a teams are alot better then the 5a power houses. La Marque could come to 5a and probably not miss a beat. Ennis is another one.

[SLCDad]

Ill tell ya what some of those 4a teams are alot better then the 5a power houses. La Marque could come to 5a and probably not miss a beat. Ennis is another one.I agree. In 2002 SV and SLC proved how good some of the 4A schools can be. If the 5A/4A line had only been moved slightly these teams would have remained in 4A. Denton Ryan did the same thing in 2004.

[spad1]

Hey Shadow! Surprised to see you on these threads, let alone any involving SLC...considering your distain for "j-sniffers". Saw "Southern Comfort" at Hooters banging his bling ring...was here for same reason as you. Past conversation indicated he, not unlike other out of staters, is clueless re: 5A D1/2 Champ designations. Should be one 5A champ. Latter said, SLC threads appear to bring out the worst regarding courtesy... unfortunately, from a minority of ignorant, sour grapes losers. Competition is one thing....but lack of TX courtesy is something else. Continued good luck in the season!

[badger95]

Wait you guys didnt win a title in 4a did you...hmm that says something. Ill tell ya what some of those 4a teams are alot better then the 5a power houses. La Marque could come to 5a and probably not miss a beat. Ennis is another one.

That's what Denton Ryan thought as well.

It boils down to athletes, plain and simple.

[SLCDad]

Wait you guys didnt win a title in 4a did you...hmm that says something.Well . . . for one thing it makes us grateful that Todd Dodge came along. I'll bet he's grateful as well because his record wasn't all that impressive at F. Ridge.

[badger95]

Well . . . for one thing it makes us grateful that Todd Dodge came along. I'll bet he's grateful as well because his record wasn't all that impressive at F. Ridge.

It wasn't very good at Rockdale, either.

Tradition, want to, ATHLETES, and organization go a long way

[grayowl60]

Wait you guys didnt win a title in 4a did you...hmm that says something. Ill tell ya what some of those 4a teams are alot better then the 5a power houses. La Marque could come to 5a and probably not miss a beat. Ennis is another one.
Is that the same Ennis that has lost two years in a row to a "very Good" 5A team, Garland?

[SLCDad]

I will refrain from any sarcastic comments with the choice adjectives used to describe a certain QB - but I must say it appears funny that someone would know what type of QB he is but not be familiar with the DI/DII classification and this just might be a weak attempt to start another Mcelroy SLC greatness thread?Oops.

[stangsfan]

The top three schools from each district make the playoffs. Of those three schools, the one that has the largest enrollment is designated as the Div. I Representative, while the other two go into the Div. II bracket.

Sorry to jump in late but the Tx 5A two bracket is just to avoid setting up a 6A system, IMHO.

[mad_fan]

Sorry to jump in late but the Tx 5A two bracket is just to avoid setting up a 6A system, IMHO.

and i thought it was to get more schools into the playoff picture so they'd feel better about themselves...or maybe that starts next year

[dragonsdaddy]

it started several years ago and will be expanded next year.

[mad_fan]

it started several years ago and will be expanded next year.

that's right. than even more will feel good about making the playoffs.

[FootballJunkie]

Sorry to jump in late but the Tx 5A two bracket is just to avoid setting up a 6A system, IMHO.
There are some states that use a 3A system and only one champion per division with 1A being 0-850, 2A 850-1800, 3A 1800+ do you think this is better or 5 divisions split in 2.

[Hdshrinker]

Any playoff system that crowns more than one champion is completely defunct in my opinion.

I think yall know where I stand on this subject by now. *cough*Super Bracket*/cough* :)


Im with you on that

[lonny23]

There are some states that use a 3A system and only one champion per division with 1A being 0-850, 2A 850-1800, 3A 1800+ do you think this is better or 5 divisions split in 2.
2A and 3A aren't far off from our current 4A and 5A. That 1A is completely unfair to our current 1A and 2A teams. That makes a big difference and most small schools could not compete.

[dragonsdaddy]

Any playoff system that crowns more than one champion is completely defunct in my opinion.

I think yall know where I stand on this subject by now. *cough*Super Bracket*/cough* :)
there's the implication with the word defunct that the 2 champ system was once good, but has since become worthless. it was a bad idea from day one, and it still is.

[KT2000]

Actually, I just really like the word defunct and look for excuses to use it daily communication. I had to throw it in there.

The original premise of it may have been cute (big shools in one bracket, smaller 5A schools in the other) but that's been broken. It's never been a good plan in my opinion either. I'm with ya.

[NewSherriffInTown]

As much as you guys complain about how ridiculous the playoff system is with 2 divisions, and it is...its nothing compared to some of the other "state champs" around the country.


New Jersey has TWENTY or more total state champs. They have a North Section 1, North Section 2, Central, and South region that don't play each other, and then 4 classes within each section, plus the catholic school champions which are the best teams in NJ anyway...If you just took the big schools and wanted to know the best team you'd have 5 different teams to think about.

New York has 5 classes, but Long Island, NYC publics, NYC catholics, Buffalo catholics are all NOT included in the state tournament. If you wanted just the big schools you'd have the Buffalo-CHSAA champ. the NYSPHSAA "AA" Champ, The NYCPSAL champ, the NYCHSFL champ, and the LI Division 1 champ.

Connecticut which has about 100 total schools crowns SIX different state champions instead of the 3 they used to. CT at least only has ONE big school champion, but schools schools in the top 3 class levels are all pretty equal. Its only a couple hundred students different.

I

[drgnbkr]

I will refrain from any sarcastic comments with the choice adjectives used to describe a certain QB - but I must say it appears funny that someone would know what type of QB he is but not be familiar with the DI/DII classification and this just might be a weak attempt to start another Mcelroy SLC greatness thread?

The greatness is well established..another thread is completely unnecessary... ;)

[KT2000]

I didn't think New Jersey even had 20 football stadiums. That's incredible given the size of the state.

Florida has the best sytem in my opinion. They are able to have a 6A and it's one champ each per class, but they obviously don't have as many teams to align overall as we do...however, it aint exactly a small or rural state but they make it work.

[implacable44]

at least in your own mind.

[NewSherriffInTown]

New Jersey is small, but it's pretty populated, and it has good football for the size of the state, but the state champs are SOOO watered down.


And like I said, the 3 best teams in the state every year are Bosco, Joe's, and Bergen Catholic. They recruit heavily and get no competition from their public school teams that they play in their league. The South Jersey public schools always think they can beat them, but will never play them.

Middletown South with Knowshown Moreno(top 100 player) has like a 25 game winning streak and should roll again, but they don't play anyone all year long. They don't even have to play the top public schools, let alone the catholic schools. It's really horrible.


As for Implacable...I've said it for months, you don't post about ANYTHING unless you are talking negatively about SLC. It's a fact, jack.

[implacable44]

I didn't say anything negative and I can show you a ton of positive postings about SLC I have made as well as several regarding Judson, the NBA, College football including the home job my Utes received last night etc.. Maybe it would be better for all if you maintained your focus on the hapennings of New Jersey football. I have resolved to eliminate sarcasm from my comments which I will honor but you are dead wrong in your statement and I would appreciate it if you would not make comments that have no basis about another's posts. Have a wonderful day - say hi to my brother who flies c130's at Mcguire Air Force Base.

[DragonFan]

I tried to get the super bracket talked about in the DFW area but the results I got was that the coaches do not want a Super Bracket. In fact most of the AD's voted to allow 4 teams per district into the playoffs! I think that will only make more blowout games for teams that get into the playoffs because somebody had to make it and play teams that deserved to be in it. That being said, I can also say that some teams are just finding themselves whem the season ends and have very good chances to be the champion. Last year Tyler Lee was concidered out of contention with 2 loses and they won it all in Div I, so anything can happen. I remember a couple of SLC games that could have gone the other way if the ball bounced differentlly. I as a fan would love to have 1 champion but I might be biased because I think that that champion would have been SLC. At this point it is mute because there will be two schools who get to claim that they are the State Champions in 5A. I do think, however that calling one Division I and the other Division II does make one think that Division I is somehow superior to Division II. I think that what creates the most confusion!

[dragonsdaddy]

what year did this 2 champ crap start? it is such a travesty to have the greatest hs football state not be capable of deciding who's the best team.

[STJL41]

The idea of two 5A state champs is pointless, as has been said many times before. The *super bracket* could help solve this problem, and so could simply pitting the two state champs against eachother at the end of the season. That last game would answer any questions as to who the "real" state champ is, and would not be hard to put on by any means. If these schools can put together a 16 (or 15) game season to get to state, how hard could it be to play one more game?

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't be proposed before, I'm just trying to figure out why it's so hard to get one 5A state champion.

As far as 4A schools being as good as 5A schools, I think teams like SLC and SV have proven that as true in recent years. But if schools like Ennis or Highland Park feel the need to prove themselves among the biggest and best schools in Texas, then they need to be scheduling their non district games accordingly.

[dragonsdaddy]

both hp and ennis played a pretty salty n-d schedule. ennis lost to garland and hp beat dr, both big time 5a programs. ennis also got marcus. even playing a sked decided 2 years earlier of teams a coach thinks will help his team prepare for district doesn't in any way shape or form compare to the po's. see kt-lp in 03.

[SLCDad]

2A and 3A aren't far off from our current 4A and 5A. That 1A is completely unfair to our current 1A and 2A teams. That makes a big difference and most small schools could not compete.I'm wondering if the same argument could be made regarding 5A in Texas with 4,000 student schools competing against schools with 2000. However, the ability of the smaller to compete doesn't seem to be a problem.

[implacable44]

I will refrain from comment because I cannot seem to word my thoughts and eliminate the sarcasm but I assume you are referring to Judson ?

[SLCDad]

I will refrain from comment because I cannot seem to word my thoughts and eliminate the sarcasm but I assume you are referring to Judson ?Your refrain is appreciated and my actually lead to a real discussion.

Judson is one of many schools that I was referring to but I wasn't thinking only of Judson. If I was king of UIL I'm not sure I would change the classifications. We have the same issue in 4A where schools with 1,800 compete with schools of 800 (or whatever the actual numbers are). 5A could be the biggest disparity because some of the schools are massive with 4,500+. Hardly seems fair to compete against small 5A schools that have around 1,900.

[drgnbkr]

Your refrain is appreciated and my actually lead to a real discussion.

Judson is one of many schools that I was referring to but I wasn't thinking only of Judson. If I was king of UIL I'm not sure I would change the classifications. We have the same issue in 4A where schools with 1,800 compete with schools of 800 (or whatever the actual numbers are). 5A could be the biggest disparity because some of the schools are massive with 4,500+. Hardly seems fair to compete against small 5A schools that have around 1,900.

Plano East has over 5000 students..size has'nt helped them....

[implacable44]

I don't think size is relevant as much as people would like to think. I would have to get the breakdown of the student body at Judson - i.e. percentage of females and percentage of students actually eligible to play football because I am sure it will be lower at Judson than say Southlake due to the nature of society and environment. There were some true geniuses that graduated with me from Judson but there were also some kids who came from homes where their parents just didn't care what they did or with whom and id not have the economic means to matter. Location plays a huge part - I mean Southlake is home to several ex-athletes Pro and College. I just think there are far more important factors than just student body.

[DragonFan]

SLC is one of the smallest schools in 5A and yet they still have good success against many of the larger schools. SLC will always be on the small side of the largest classification.

[dragonfootballfan]

I don't think size is relevant as much as people would like to think. I would have to get the breakdown of the student body at Judson - i.e. percentage of females and percentage of students actually eligible to play football because I am sure it will be lower at Judson than say Southlake due to the nature of society and environment. There were some true geniuses that graduated with me from Judson but there were also some kids who came from homes where their parents just didn't care what they did or with whom and id not have the economic means to matter. Location plays a huge part - I mean Southlake is home to several ex-athletes Pro and College. I just think there are far more important factors than just student body.
Size is not the only factor, but it is the best measureable way to seperate teams into classifications. For the most part it is a pretty good indicator of weather your team can compete with schools of the same class. I am not saying weather a team can win, but compete with the other teams.

[poppy]

the size of the school .......slc one of the smallest....true..
how many outstanding football players move to the southlake area
to play for slc???
more than one???
that may be a factor in the success of the program...
in high school it's all about the coaching and getting the right players to
come join the team...
look at north shore before coach a arrived....he got the athletes out for the football team and the school behind the program..just like todd d at slc
and the katy or sv programs...

[toonman]

For all we know Highland Park or LaMarque are the best teams in the Texas right now and Highland Park may have the best football program of all time.

I certainly do not do see Highland Park as the 'best footfall program of all time' - HP have only been to State 4 times and only won 2 of those. 25 other schools have been to 5 or more state championship games and 30 schools have won 3 or more state championships - how is Highland Park probably the best football program of all time. I see Highland Park ranked about the 25th all time and that is just a guess.

[SLCDad]

Actually, I just really like the word defunct and look for excuses to use it daily communication. I had to throw it in there.
Speaking of defunct, I have a friend who's name is Jordan Funk. He married a girl with the first name Dee. She is now called Dee Funk. True story.