What is wrong with transferring to another school for Athletics?

[twcpfan1]

It's a topic that comes up every now and again. But let's all stop and consider this.

If a parent chooses to move to the feeder zone where a child gets to go to the school he wishes to play football for, what is so wrong about that? As long as the transfer is not influenced by a job opening at a company owned by one of the booster club directors that miraculously appeared and it just so happens that the particular parent is a perfect fit for the position.

Especially in-district transfers. Hypothetically, Sam McGuffie wishes to play for Cy Falls his senior year, so his parents sell the house and move to that feeder zone over the summer. Why would the UIL have a problem with that? All of us have the right to live where we want within the 50 states.

Thoughts?

[Firebird]

The problem arises with the possibility of schools using unfair advantages to lure athletes to transfer. For instance, a booster offering use of a nice new house to a poor family in order to lure a kid to move to their district. Offering his dad a plum job a few towns over. The creative ways people find to violate the spirit of UIL athletics are multiple, and it is easy to cover up. Thus, the transfer rule is born.

[twcpfan1]

The problem arises with the possibility of schools using unfair advantages to lure athletes to transfer. For instance, a booster offering use of a nice new house to a poor family in order to lure a kid to move to their district. Offering his dad a plum job a few towns over. The creative ways people find to violate the spirit of UIL athletics are multiple, and it is easy to cover up. Thus, the transfer rule is born.

Granted, and that is why I made the stipulation. I specifically used an in-district transfer as the example, where it would be a geographic move rather than an economic one, i.e., moving from a 200k house in Street A to a 200k house in Avenue Z, and the parents would still have the same commute time to work. Do you guys feel that it should be allowed to happen?

[toonman]

Granted, and that is why I made the stipulation. I specifically used an in-district transfer as the example, where it would be a geographic move rather than an economic one, i.e., moving from a 200k house in Street A to a 200k house in Avenue Z, and the parents would still have the same commute time to work. Do you guys feel that it should be allowed to happen?

Our society is all about freedom of choice; so high school should be no different or an exception, irrespective of the motivation; therefore I am of the opinion there should be no restriction on the choice of the parent.

[Firebird]

Granted, and that is why I made the stipulation. I specifically used an in-district transfer as the example, where it would be a geographic move rather than an economic one, i.e., moving from a 200k house in Street A to a 200k house in Avenue Z, and the parents would still have the same commute time to work. Do you guys feel that it should be allowed to happen?


Again, there is no reason to think that in-district transfers could not take place for just as corrupt reasons. There is much besides houses that you can dangle in front of parents. I would not put it beyond some rich booster of a crosstown rival without a sense of perspective.

That's why I think the rule is sensible. I just don't have a problem with it.

[dragonsfan4life3p]

i dont believe anything is wrong with it as long as no benefits are provide from someone outside the family. if the family wants to move to better their sons chances of getting recognized, theres nothing wrong with it.

[maxtor]

The problem that I have with the transfer rules is that it assumes that you are guilty. The UIL casts a wide net to catch a few and end up catching everyone.
One wonders how often a family wanted to move to another location and couldnt because their child wouldnt be able to compete that year in their particular sport!
A lot of lives have been inconvenienced because of these rules. There is a price to pay and a gain to be made from each side of this coin. I just think that the price is too high for the UIL stance. Remember, all of these same scams that boosters play work like a charm anyway right now. Their timing is simply disrupted.

[DrEdward]

My disagreement with the UIL rule are that they seemingly only apply to athletics. If you want your son or daughter to go to a different school for academic purposes, then feel free to go right ahead; the UIL and no one on this board is likely to question it. Got a kid who is a wonderful musician and you think that putting him in a different school will be better for developing his musical talents? Again, there are not likely to be any objections. But if you son or daughter happens to be a good athlete and you think there is a better chance for him or her to showcase their talent in one school and make the move to accomodate that objective, uh oh. Seems discriminatory at best. All of this assumes that there is no actual recruiting or incentives being offered by the receiving school, boosters, etc.

[t-long20]

It's a topic that comes up every now and again. But let's all stop and consider this.

If a parent chooses to move to the feeder zone where a child gets to go to the school he wishes to play football for, what is so wrong about that? As long as the transfer is not influenced by a job opening at a company owned by one of the booster club directors that miraculously appeared and it just so happens that the particular parent is a perfect fit for the position.

Especially in-district transfers. Hypothetically, Sam McGuffie wishes to play for Cy Falls his senior year, so his parents sell the house and move to that feeder zone over the summer. Why would the UIL have a problem with that? All of us have the right to live where we want within the 50 states.

Thoughts?

you can move to which ever skool you want to, but when you move to a school for athletic purposes that my friend will lead to something call "recruiting" and is against UIL rules

[HUM398]

The problem arises with the possibility of schools using unfair advantages to lure athletes to transfer. For instance, a booster offering use of a nice new house to a poor family in order to lure a kid to move to their district. Offering his dad a plum job a few towns over. The creative ways people find to violate the spirit of UIL athletics are multiple, and it is easy to cover up. Thus, the transfer rule is born.

I CONCUR.

[KattTx]

No, it's not recruiting if there were no actions on the school's part or anyone on behalf of the school's program. Basically, if the decision to attend one school over another is completely made by the family with no other influence - it's not recruiting.

Problem is... lots and lots of ways for real recruiting to look like it isn't. Sadly there are people who would hide unethical behavior behind legitimate transfers. Thus we have this restrictive and discriminate law. Kids who are gifted in music, academics, art, etc... are encouraged to choose a school that will make the most of their talents. They don't even have to live in the same district. But it's a sin for kids who are athletically gifted to consider their talents when choosing a school.

[mojotrain]

My disagreement with the UIL rule are that they seemingly only apply to athletics. If you want your son or daughter to go to a different school for academic purposes, then feel free to go right ahead; the UIL and no one on this board is likely to question it. Got a kid who is a wonderful musician and you think that putting him in a different school will be better for developing his musical talents? Again, there are not likely to be any objections. But if you son or daughter happens to be a good athlete and you think there is a better chance for him or her to showcase their talent in one school and make the move to accomodate that objective, uh oh. Seems discriminatory at best. All of this assumes that there is no actual recruiting or incentives being offered by the receiving school, boosters, etc.

A scholarship to a band member is not likely to be enhanced by moving to another school or district to showcase their talents. They exceed through solo contest and are recognized by what they can do. Concerning athletes it may be the same. The good ones seem to find a way to go on. The big schools have a way of finding talent on 3-7 highschool teams. It's kinda tough to make a one size fits all rule because their are legitimate reasons for kids and parents to relocate.

I don't wish to see the rule change because the kids filling the spots now will be bumped down or out and the friends and team mates left behind would have a new way to measure friendship or commitment. But if there's a real coaching defiency in the kids present school then that may be something else.

I can see with a open door policy in big cities a kid would carry more resumes from school to school than a roughneck carries from rig to rig.

Texas High School football has been the standard and still is for every state in the union. It has survived with this rule and in fact is one of the foundations that has made it so successful. Most every one has a opportunity to win state. You can see from another string what happens to commitment, class and work ethnic in Florida with the open door policy.

[DrEdward]

A scholarship to a band member is not likely to be enhanced by moving to another school or district to showcase their talents. They exceed through solo contest and are recognized by what they can do. Concerning athletes it may be the same. The good ones seem to find a way to go on. The big schools have a way of finding talent on 3-7 highschool teams. It's kinda tough to make a one size fits all rule because their are legitimate reasons for kids and parents to relocate.

I don't wish to see the rule change because the kids filling the spots now will be bumped down or out and the friends and team mates left behind would have a new way to measure friendship or commitment. But if there's a real coaching defiency in the kids present school then that may be something else.

I can see with a open door policy in big cities a kid would carry more resumes from school to school than a roughneck carries from rig to rig.

Texas High School football has been the standard and still is for every state in the union. It has survived with this rule and in fact is one of the foundations that has made it so successful. Most every one has a opportunity to win state. You can see from another string what happens to commitment, class and work ethnic in Florida with the open door policy.

I am not sure I would change the rule either as it stands. I simply point out that it is discriminatory towards those whose comparative advantage is in athletics as opposed to other areas of endeavor. But what one can expect out of the rule the way it stands is for there to be question raised, rightly or wrongly, every time a student athlete moves with his/her family to a new school district.

[WOS87]

My disagreement with the UIL rule are that they seemingly only apply to athletics. If you want your son or daughter to go to a different school for academic purposes, then feel free to go right ahead; the UIL and no one on this board is likely to question it. Got a kid who is a wonderful musician and you think that putting him in a different school will be better for developing his musical talents? Again, there are not likely to be any objections. But if you son or daughter happens to be a good athlete and you think there is a better chance for him or her to showcase their talent in one school and make the move to accomodate that objective, uh oh. Seems discriminatory at best. All of this assumes that there is no actual recruiting or incentives being offered by the receiving school, boosters, etc.

The same rules go for academic and musical competitions as athletics as far I knew.... In my opinion the transfer rules are protecting students more than hurting them. Who really would benefit the most if the rules were abolished? I don't think it would necessarily be the students. The transfer rules are there the same reason that there are monopoly laws. It hurts the overall quality of talent and the benefit one gets from participating in athletics in general if there isn't at least some parity between programs and the transfer rules essentially guarantee somewhat of a level playing field. If someone is talented, they can get just as much and a lot of times more exposure in a lower classification, smaller or lesser known program than they would as one of many superstars in a dynastic program, possibly remaining 2nd or 3rd string throughout their career with no chance at all of ever being noticed. And if it's that much of a priority to be part of a quality athletics program then go to a private school where you can pick and choose all you want.

Link to UIL Constitution (http://www.uil.utexas.edu/policy/constitution/06_07subM.pdf)

Quote:

Section 420: ELIGIBILITY - ACADEMICS
Subject to the other sections of this subchapter, an individual is eligible to participate in a League varsity academic contest as a
representative of a participant school if that individual:
(a) meets all the requirements of Section 400; and
(b) did not change schools for the purpose of participating in a UIL academic contest.

Section 430: ELIGIBILITY - MUSIC
Subject to the other sections of this subchapter, an individual is eligible to participate in a League varsity music contest as a
representative of a participant school if that individual:
(a) meets all the requirements of Section 400; and
(b) did not change schools for the purpose of participating in a UIL music contest.

[DrEdward]

I agree. That is why I used the term "likely" (twice) when talking about anyone saying much about it one way or the other. When was the last time anyone on here recalls a discussion as to whether a flutest changed schools for a better band or when a calculus whiz relocated to a different district to get advanced math training? Okay, I admit that the subject is not likely to come up on these board alot, but really, does anyone ever recall such a challenge at any time, anywhere? It may happen, but I sure don't ever remember it doing so. The question does seem to come up frequently when the student is an athlete, however. But again, I am not arguing for changing the rules.

[slorch]

My disagreement with the UIL rule are that they seemingly only apply to athletics. If you want your son or daughter to go to a different school for academic purposes, then feel free to go right ahead; the UIL and no one on this board is likely to question it. Got a kid who is a wonderful musician and you think that putting him in a different school will be better for developing his musical talents? Again, there are not likely to be any objections. But if you son or daughter happens to be a good athlete and you think there is a better chance for him or her to showcase their talent in one school and make the move to accomodate that objective, uh oh. Seems discriminatory at best. All of this assumes that there is no actual recruiting or incentives being offered by the receiving school, boosters, etc.

It helps keep the schools honest too. There's a little more cash involved in having a great basketball program vs. a stellar debate squad.

I find it more than unusual, that many people saying they disagree with this concept are SLC fans, who would be the very beneficiaries(and already suspects) of such allowances. It's like a husband that can't be faithful saying he disagrees with wedding vows...:eek: :D .

[GoOwls]

My school district, just like yours, takes your tax money every year and it WILL be paid. If they take my taxes, why should I let those jerks TELL me where my kid will go to school.

Let me get this straight. You don't pay and you lose your home, but they tell you where your kid will go to school, and some of you guys are OK with that?

Sounds a bunch like "taxation without representation", to me.

You force my money out of my pocket, do what you want with it with no real way for the common man to check and see if your are spending it right, they tell him exactly where when his children must go to school with those forced tax dollars..........yeah......right......great system fellas.

[slorch]

My school district, just like yours, takes your tax money every year and it WILL be paid. If they take my taxes, why should I let those jerks TELL me where my kid will go to school.

Let me get this straight. You don't pay and you lose your home, but they tell you where your kid will go to school, and some of you guys are OK with that?

Sounds a bunch like "taxation without representation", to me.

You force my money out of my pocket, do what you want with it with no real way for the common man to check and see if your are spending it right, they tell him exactly where when his children must go to school with those forced tax dollars..........yeah......right......great system fellas.

no. you can live anywhere. Just expect your kids to go to school there too.
I really don't see why there is an issue here. We moved 4 times in 5 years, 3 of which were to completely new communities. Each time we relocated, we researched the schools and that impacted our decision as to where we wanted to live. Your taxes go to that school system. Why wouldn't you want that school to be the extension of YOUR community? I just don't get the desire to send your kid somewherre else, and then say it is unfair to send your kids to the very schools you support financially.

One can only imagine the chaos of kids changing schools as the programs in extra-curricular activities ebb and flow. I agree with the current rules, as they give Texas schools a certain level of stability that would not exist in my estimation without them.

How can you look at today's competitive landscape in Texas and say it doesn't work?

[Drake]

My school district, just like yours, takes your tax money every year and it WILL be paid. If they take my taxes, why should I let those jerks TELL me where my kid will go to school.

Let me get this straight. You don't pay and you lose your home, but they tell you where your kid will go to school, and some of you guys are OK with that?

Sounds a bunch like "taxation without representation", to me.

You force my money out of my pocket, do what you want with it with no real way for the common man to check and see if your are spending it right, they tell him exactly where when his children must go to school with those forced tax dollars..........yeah......right......great system fellas.I think the biggest reason for having attendance zones is to balance attendance numbers and have a heads up in allocating resources. If I understand your complaint, how would schools prepare for conducting classes or build new schools if they didn't have the ability to dictate where certain neighborhoods must attend?

I don't like taxes either, but you do have representation. You elect your school board, city council, mayor, judges, state reps, U.S. reps, Senators, and your President. They give you the opportunities to give feedback, but if you had oversight (other than voting), our representative government wouldn't work at all.

I too like the rules in place. I also like that the UIL understands that people move for all sorts of reasons, including athletics, and basically leaves it up to the coaches to govern themselves when athletes move. The unwritten rule among coaches seems to be that they won't make a big deal about an athletic move as long as there isn't recruiting and as long as it doesn't get out of hand or starts being taken advantage of. It's a common sense approach that we could use a lot more of in all areas of public service.

[twcpfan1]

Let me clear up the question I originally asked.

Do you think it is right for the UIL to tell your athlete kid that he is not eligible to play football/basketball/etc for the school he is zoned to go to because you made an unassisted move to an address in that school zone sometime in the middle of his high school years?

Example: If I did not want my kid to play for the TWHS coach because I thought he would have a more fulfilling high school career playing for the TWCP coach, and I moved a couple of miles up the road to get in TWCP's feeder zone, do you think the UIL has a case if they say your kid would not be eligible? (I do not have sons so we know this is a hypothetical example).

[WOS87]

If I did not want my kid to play for the TWHS coach because I thought he would have a more fulfilling high school career playing for the TWCP coach, and I moved a couple of miles up the road to get in TWCP's feeder zone, do you think the UIL has a case if they say your kid would not be eligible? (I do not have sons so we know this is a hypothetical example).

The way the rules are written is actually quite vague, but in answer to your question, the UIL could have a case if you are letting it be known that that is the reason for the move.

Section 443: CHANGING SCHOOLS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES
(a) DETERMINATION BY DISTRICT EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE. The district executive committee is to determine whether
or not a student has changed schools for athletic purposes, when considering each transfer student.
(b) COMMON INDICATORS. District executive committees should look closely to determine if a student is changing schools
for any athletic purpose. Some common indicators committees should include in their considerations include, but are not
limited to: checking to see if a student was recruited; ascertaining whether a student was in good standing in the previous
school, either academically or in a sports program; determining if a student was unhappy with a coach in the previous school;
determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where members of the non-school team
attend; determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where the non-school team
coach, or a relative of the non-school team coach, is the school coach; and determining if a student received individual or
team instruction from a school coach and is transferring to the school of that coach.
(c) INELIGIBLE. A student who changes schools for athletic purposes is not eligible to compete in varsity League athletic
contest(s) at the school to which he or she moves for at least one calendar year, even if both parents move to the new school
district attendance zone. See (e) below.

[Gazelle]

....And if it's that much of a priority to be part of a quality athletics program then go to a private school where you can pick and choose all you want......


Well, this brings up a question I have about Dallas Jesuit HS, a private school competing in UIL activities. As a private school, they have no attendence zone. So how do the recuiting rules apply to them?

[stuckinthecity]

A few things to consider when discussing this topic. First of all, every one is entitled to an education but extra-curricular activities are not included. You do not have the right to be a part of these it is a privelage. So, this is where the difficult decisions about transferring/recruiting take place. There are many schools where kids are attending "illegal" but as long as they are not participating in a sport they can generally slide under the radar. The UiL is a unique group of people that have a difficult time with all of the problems that arise from Extra curricular events. When you discuss a kid moving from one school to another that presents a new situation and problems. This is how it is dealt with by the UIL. If a kid moves from Conroe ISD to the Willis ISD then that would fall under the UIL guidelines. IF a Kid moved from Conroe High to Oak Ridge then that is not a concern of the UIL because they do not care where a student goes within the school district but only when it involves two districts. In the case of conroe to oak ridge it would be up to the district (conroe isd) policy to determine that students elgiblility. Also, another group that would get involved with this situation is the district executive committtee. This group is made up of each principal of each high school that is participating in that district (15-5A). I have discovered with each situation it may have more than one rule that applies so you have to be careful.

[KattTx]

The same rules go for academic and musical competitions as athletics as far I knew....



In the ECISD (Covers Odessa High and Permian) one could say that local policy is in direct contrast with UIL rules if looked at a certain way. We have an extensive AP/ IB program at one high school and very little at the other. Kids, regardless of where they live within the district, can choose to go to another school for academic reasons. We also have several magnet schools (not at the high school level) which are geared in different directions, ie science, dance, art, etc. So, the magnet schools and specialty programs do allow a parent to choose a school based on their childs talents... regardless of what UIL says. These kids then go on to participate in academic contests, artistic contests, dance competitions, etc. (All of this is within the same district though - so it may be a local decision)

Personally, I concur with the UIL regulations in so far as it curtails recruiting, unethical financial gain, or other gain for kids athletic abilities. I do not believe it's fair, in that parents ALONE can't make a choice like this based solely on what is best for their kids. Unfortunately, I don't see how you can ban one form of transfer (money, recruiting) and keep the other.

And in reality, parents who feel their child will do better in school A will move there. The UIL can investigate and if there was no outside factors in the move (friends, coaches, monetary gain) they can not prove what a parent is thinking when they made the decision.

[nsmustang]

Go way, way back in time to 1950 thereabouts. Football in Texas was king then and it's king now. One reason the rule was established was because of the recruiting going on then. Coaches and local businesses thought nothing of hiring dad so son could play ball. Teams started dominating or getting "help" year after year. I believe it still goes on today but it's disguised. What gives it a bad taste is that it's on the high school level.

[DrEdward]

oops; never mind. Apologies all.

[drgnbkr]

oops; never mind. Apologies all.

What? What did you do?

[twhfan#1]

A few things to consider when discussing this topic. First of all, every one is entitled to an education but extra-curricular activities are not included. You do not have the right to be a part of these it is a privelage. So, this is where the difficult decisions about transferring/recruiting take place. There are many schools where kids are attending "illegal" but as long as they are not participating in a sport they can generally slide under the radar. The UiL is a unique group of people that have a difficult time with all of the problems that arise from Extra curricular events. When you discuss a kid moving from one school to another that presents a new situation and problems. This is how it is dealt with by the UIL. If a kid moves from Conroe ISD to the Willis ISD then that would fall under the UIL guidelines. IF a Kid moved from Conroe High to Oak Ridge then that is not a concern of the UIL because they do not care where a student goes within the school district but only when it involves two districts. In the case of conroe to oak ridge it would be up to the district (conroe isd) policy to determine that students elgiblility. Also, another group that would get involved with this situation is the district executive committtee. This group is made up of each principal of each high school that is participating in that district (15-5A). I have discovered with each situation it may have more than one rule that applies so you have to be careful.

The Conroe - Oak ridge example is exactly what is wrong with the rule as it stands --you are right that since it is an "intra-CISD " move UIL is not concerned --- but the 15-5A district executive committe is -- & each D.E.C applies rules on a case-by-case basis so there are a lot of different rulings that some times contradict ---opens up for a lot of "trading votes" --back when Woodlands was in district with Klein ISD -- the 4 Klein schools voted as a block & Conroe always votes against TWH whatever the issue --so TWH was out-voted unless they could get Klein ISD to vote with them

A school that is voted down in D.E.C. can appeal to UIL --but that is a mistake --the UIL doesnt like ruling in these cases & rarely overturns the district committe --plus UIL has a tendacy to get back at the appealing school ( they have many ways to do that ! ! ! ) --you DO NOT want to get on bad side of UIL

All that said -- I support the rule unless there are extreme justifiable overiding situations

[twhfan#1]

Let me clear up the question I originally asked.

Do you think it is right for the UIL to tell your athlete kid that he is not eligible to play football/basketball/etc for the school he is zoned to go to because you made an unassisted move to an address in that school zone sometime in the middle of his high school years?

Example: If I did not want my kid to play for the TWHS coach because I thought he would have a more fulfilling high school career playing for the TWCP coach, and I moved a couple of miles up the road to get in TWCP's feeder zone, do you think the UIL has a case if they say your kid would not be eligible? (I do not have sons so we know this is a hypothetical example).


the hypothetical example you submitted is a prime example of moving for athletic reasons & would be voted down--you would have to convince all concerned that you moved for such reasons as :

1. Newer / bigger house
2. Smaller / older house
3. Cheaper house
4. More expensive house
5. Dont like old neighbors
6. In love with new neighbors
7. Closer to relatives
8. Further away from relatives

After you decide on a reason --THEN you would have to be surprised & shocked that it is in a different school attendance zone

Then -- hire a lawyer ( or if the kid is a stud linebacker --have a good lawyer that is member of booster club )


All kidding aside --the above scenarios have actually happened

[GoOwls]

I can't believe that there is anybody here who don't see the problem with forced taxation and then telling you which school in that district you live in that your kid can go to without any consideration of where the kid and/or the parents want him or her to go. It is blatant taxation without representation.....a thing our forefathers felt strongly enough about for them to leave their homeland looking for freedom and fighting a war of rebellion against the oppressors over.

[WOS87]

I can't believe that there is anybody here who don't see the problem with forced taxation and then telling you which school in that district you live in that your kid can go to without any consideration of where the kid and/or the parents want him or her to go. It is blatant taxation without representation.....a thing our forefathers felt strongly enough about for them to leave their homeland looking for freedom and fighting a war of rebellion against the oppressors over.

Of course there's representation... if you vote to elect members to the school board in the district, that's representation... Our forefathers were forced to pay taxes to the British Government without having any official voice in that government... I have more of a problem with paying school taxes when I don't have and don't plan to have kids any time soon.

[GoOwls]

Of course there's representation... if you vote to elect members to the school board in the district, that's representation... Our forefathers were forced to pay taxes to the British Government without having any official voice in that government... I have more of a problem with paying school taxes when I don't have and don't plan to have kids any time soon.

That representaion is relative.....relative to if they're your relative or not....:D

I to resent the paying of school taxes, if you have no kids in school, the most. I know the reasons listed for paying them, I just don't agree with the reasons.

[nsmustang]

Of course there's representation... if you vote to elect members to the school board in the district, that's representation... Our forefathers were forced to pay taxes to the British Government without having any official voice in that government... I have more of a problem with paying school taxes when I don't have and don't plan to have kids any time soon.

It does seem out of whack but the only saving grace on that is many people paid for ours that also did not have kids. It's like paying pork taxes so a study on fruit fly incest in Oregon can be accomplished. Can't begin to tell you how I've benefited from that.

[twhfan#1]

I can't believe that there is anybody here who don't see the problem with forced taxation and then telling you which school in that district you live in that your kid can go to without any consideration of where the kid and/or the parents want him or her to go. It is blatant taxation without representation.....a thing our forefathers felt strongly enough about for them to leave their homeland looking for freedom and fighting a war of rebellion against the oppressors over.

Do you have ANY idea of who the UIL really is ????? -- the UIL people in Austin are paid full time staff that handle the day-day operations --- but the governing body that vote on every policy & rule are the superintendents of EVERY I.S.D. in the state. So you do have represntation ( the school board is elected by voters in the ISD & in turn the school board hires the supt ) --so if you REALLY want a rule or policy changed -- lobby your supt / school board.

[nsmustang]

That representaion is relative.....relative to if they're your relative or not....:D

I to resent the paying of school taxes, if you have no kids in school, the most. I know the reasons listed for paying them, I just don't agree with the reasons.

I just was studying your avatar and realized what it was. Hilarious!!!

[GoOwls]

I just was studying your avatar and realized what it was. Hilarious!!!

Thanks, I really like it.

[GoOwls]

Do you have ANY idea of who the UIL really is ????? -- the UIL people in Austin are paid full time staff that handle the day-day operations --- but the governing body that vote on every policy & rule are the superintendents of EVERY I.S.D. in the state. So you do have represntation ( the school board is elected by voters in the ISD & in turn the school board hires the supt ) --so if you REALLY want a rule or policy changed -- lobby your supt / school board.

Do you know your superintendent and are you part of the political machine in your town that runs the election campaigns of the board members?
Are you a part of the "good ole boy" group that really runs the political processes in your town? If so, then you have representation, otherwise, you are just one of the sheep.......like it or not.

I don't call robbing me of my hard earned money and using it, with no real checks and balances or any real type of accountability, REPRESENTATION. I call it robbery.

[sgfantoo]

Do you know your superintendent and are you part of the political machine in your town that runs the election campaigns of the board members?
Are you a part of the "good ole boy" group that really runs the political processes in your town? If so, then you have representation, otherwise, you are just one of the sheep.......like it or not.

I don't call robbing me of my hard earned money and using it, with no real checks and balances or any real type of accountability, REPRESENTATION. I call it robbery.

Then in Garland ISD there are only two mascots, the owls and then the sheep.

[GoOwls]

Then in Garland ISD there are only two mascots, the owls and then the sheep.

AHHHHHH!!!!

Yet more grapes, of the sour variety, from a disgruntled South fan who don't know beans about being a real fan.

Yes, I heard all about your great turnout for the playoff game against Lufkin a few years ago. What was it......200-300 fans made the trip for a third round playoff game? Sounds like the old South faithful really had their kids on their minds that day, or was it the "wanna-be" dinner parties that Saturday evening that detered them from making that long drive to east Texas?

Listen, Colonel Boy, until you guys can actually support your kids on a road game, don't compliain when the other kids in the district hear how sorry a group of fans you are and choose to attend the school where the fans support their team in spades.

Don't complain when you guys will never achieve what we can because you are just too darn lazy.

Don't complain that we are getting all the breaks, and then when you guys actually win a couple against us, and you get a big time playoff game against a top team, and it's the furtherest you have ever been in the playoffs, and you can't muster more than a couple of hundred fans to take time out of their busy schedules to attend this occasion....well.....don't mouth off.

You had the chance to prove the team has support and you failed....miserably.

Word gets around and the kids noticed....big time.

I got all this information from a couple of devoted South fans I know who DID go to the game against Lufkin and were embarrassed by the lack of support.

Just dry up, you bitter old man. :mad:

[grayowl60]

AHHHHHH!!!!

Yet more grapes, of the sour variety, from a disgruntled South fan who don't know beans about being a real fan.

Yes, I heard all about your great turnout for the playoff game against Lufkin a few years ago. What was it......200-300 fans made the trip for a third round playoff game? Sounds like the old South faithful really had their kids on their minds that day, or was it the "wanna-be" dinner parties that Saturday evening that detered them from making that long drive to east Texas?

Listen, Colonel Boy, until you guys can actually support your kids on a road game, don't compliain when the other kids in the district hear how sorry a group of fans you are and choose to attend the school where the fans support their team in spades.

Don't complain when you guys will never achieve what we can because you are just too darn lazy.

Don't complain that we are getting all the breaks, and then when you guys actually win a couple against us, and you get a big time playoff game against a top team, and it's the furtherest you have ever been in the playoffs, and you can't muster more than a couple of hundred fans to take time out of their busy schedules to attend this occasion....well.....don't mouth off.

You had the chance to prove the team has support and you failed....miserably.

Word gets around and the kids noticed....big time.

I got all this information from a couple of devoted South fans I know who DID go to the game against Lufkin and were embarrassed by the lack of support.

Just dry up, you bitter old man. :mad:
What he said!:mad:

[Down n' Out]

I can't believe that there is anybody here who don't see the problem with forced taxation and then telling you which school in that district you live in that your kid can go to without any consideration of where the kid and/or the parents want him or her to go. It is blatant taxation without representation.....a thing our forefathers felt strongly enough about for them to leave their homeland looking for freedom and fighting a war of rebellion against the oppressors over.

Also for "freedom of speach"...Go Natalie.

[sgfantoo]

What he said!:mad:

I can't hear you. Try yelling a little louder>:D

[CFlb38 08]

what sucks is when a family moves.........no intent of moving for the sport. but the kid just can't play. like an average student-athlete.

[99cujo]

It happen down here in Tyler. How do you think Tyler Lee won state? All of J.T players left school and went there-but if one of Tyler Lee players leaves and comes to JT they cannot play. Rod. left Lufkin to run track & his brother to play football for JT Some one from Lee call UIL and said something now he can't run track for JT & he is a Sr. Not only that a girl a (jr)left Lee and move back home in JT district before school ended in 06. Lee call UIL she had to play jv bb. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS

[GoOwls]

I can't hear you. Try yelling a little louder>:D

Not to worry, your valiant football players couldn't hear you either.............:(

[fb#1]

I guess UIL does nothing on these issues. Its a free-for-all. Lake Travis actively comes out and ask athletes from other schools to come play football there. Example there football QB camp and New Orleans evacs.

[Drake]

I guess UIL does nothing on these issues. Its a free-for-all. Lake Travis actively comes out and ask athletes from other schools to come play football there. Example there football QB camp and New Orleans evacs.How was the QB camp they hosted a form of recruiting?

[Firebird]

Do you know your superintendent and are you part of the political machine in your town that runs the election campaigns of the board members?
Are you a part of the "good ole boy" group that really runs the political processes in your town? If so, then you have representation, otherwise, you are just one of the sheep.......like it or not.

I don't call robbing me of my hard earned money and using it, with no real checks and balances or any real type of accountability, REPRESENTATION. I call it robbery.


You can't really complain that you are taxed without representation in regards to schools. The school board is elected directly by the community, It doesn't get more representative than that. For goodness sakes, they have to have referendums for things like bond elections, and there is no process more democratic than the referendum.

Your complaints about "networks" are invalid. All that means is that there are certain groups of people who are well organized and able to get elected. If you don't like those groups, you are free to mobilize and try to create one of your own. Never has the right to taxation with representation been interpreted as "the right to make sure there is a representative that thinks the way I do".

It's also not taxation without representation to distribute public services in an orderly fashion. There is nothing in the constitution that says they have to provide public services in the exact way you want to see them delivered. The only time you have grounds for complaint is if, for instance, the quality of schooling at your school was substantially qualitatively worse than that across town. By the way, most court rulings have come down in favor of the right of students to leave sub-par schools.

But transferring just because you don't like the colors or mascot or something is not a right.

[oldathlete]

If a family moves into another part of the district, and purchases a home in the new school district lines, and the old coach releases him then he is eligible to play.

This cannot be stopped and no one can prove the reason for moving.

[big red & cujo]

It happen down here in Tyler. How do you think Tyler Lee won state? All of J.T players left school and went there-but if one of Tyler Lee players leaves and comes to JT they cannot play. Rod. left Lufkin to run track & his brother to play football for JT Some one from Lee call UIL and said something now he can't run track for JT & he is a Sr. Not only that a girl a (jr)left Lee and move back home in JT district before school ended in 06. Lee call UIL she had to play jv bb. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS

DONT BELIEVE THIS CRAP. lee won state because of the players they had. you might have had students that stayed in jt disrict attending lee,but as far as the football team no!!!!!!!!! it was that many if any at all.this is just a bunch of crap a jelous fan has to say to keep from giving a team props. i heard this filth before and it is just utterly rediculuos. lee won state in 04 and thats that and good for them. but for some idiot to say they won because jt players was over there is just a stupid and not worth listening to. its players in lee's district that attend jt. it goes both ways but not enough to make anything matter. thats just stupid to be blaming lee for everything . ha ha ha !!!!! how do you know someone from lee called? the uil looks out for that stuff man!! hell, when a jt player went to lee back in 99 he could not play either untill a certian time.thats just how it goes dog. i hate when idiots like this come on here talkin bullcrap to people who dont know for themselves. people listen to that crap. make sure you know what you are talkin bout man. no truth in none of this junk you claiming on here. damn it pisses me off to here foolishess. as far as Erika Warren man nobody from lee called and said nothin. it is a uil rule taht you cannot move to another school for athletic purposes. it was told to her. nobody have to call and say a nothing. the uil keeps up with that stuff. nobody from no school is callin sayin nothin.whooooooooo!!! this is just stupid. man represent jt with style dog and not foolishness. ok? you make other cujo fans look silly. you may no be the only one believe this. but, that is just so damn false its just nerve wrecking. take it from a fan who reps both schools.

[twhfan#1]

If a family moves into another part of the district, and purchases a home in the new school district lines, and the old coach releases him then he is eligible to play.

This cannot be stopped and no one can prove the reason for moving.

the issue is what happens if former coach doesnt release the kid -- that is when the district executive committee , UIL appeal , & lawsuits start

[99cujo]

DONT BELIEVE THIS CRAP. lee won state because of the players they had. you might have had students that stayed in jt disrict attending lee,but as far as the football team no!!!!!!!!! it was that many if any at all.this is just a bunch of crap a jelous fan has to say to keep from giving a team props. i heard this filth before and it is just utterly rediculuos. lee won state in 04 and thats that and good for them. but for some idiot to say they won because jt players was over there is just a stupid and not worth listening to. its players in lee's district that attend jt. it goes both ways but not enough to make anything matter. thats just stupid to be blaming lee for everything . ha ha ha !!!!! how do you know someone from lee called? the uil looks out for that stuff man!! hell, when a jt player went to lee back in 99 he could not play either untill a certian time.thats just how it goes dog. i hate when idiots like this come on here talkin bullcrap to people who dont know for themselves. people listen to that crap. make sure you know what you are talkin bout man. no truth in none of this junk you claiming on here. damn it pisses me off to here foolishess. as far as Erika Warren man nobody from lee called and said nothin. it is a uil rule taht you cannot move to another school for athletic purposes. it was told to her. nobody have to call and say a nothing. the uil keeps up with that stuff. nobody from no school is callin sayin nothin.whooooooooo!!! this is just stupid. man represent jt with style dog and not foolishness. ok? you make other cujo fans look silly. you may no be the only one believe this. but, that is just so damn false its just nerve wrecking. take it from a fan who reps both schools.No the fool is thie person that trying to rep both school. That just like goin for the Cowboys & the Redskins it just won't work. I'm a true cujo cut me I bleed blue ......I never rep rel if that the only highschool in tyler i will go for lindale I'M A RAIDER HATER & for the rel player where did Ross live? He went to lee just to play football & that just one. dO YOU NEED TO NAME MORE? REL IS JUST JT SOUTH

[big red & cujo]

No the fool is thie person that trying to rep both school. That just like goin for the Cowboys & the Redskins it just won't work. I'm a true cujo cut me I bleed blue ......I never rep rel if that the only highschool in tyler i will go for lindale I'M A RAIDER HATER & for the rel player where did Ross live? He went to lee just to play football & that just one. dO YOU NEED TO NAME MORE? REL IS JUST JT SOUTH

what about the d-end yall had last year from lee. huh? where did he stay? yes you name ross and said thats justy one.hell thats all you could name. i even went to lee and stayed across from boulter. thats all over tyler son. plus ross went to lee the year after yall went to state against katy.yall still had a rep, so he went to lee cause thats where he wanted to go and the school he liked the most. there are people in both disrticts including chapell that goes to other schools. lee is no jt south.wilson tried to get me to go to jt when i was at lee. you can kill that crap. yes i rep both schools and i am a proud foo if thats what you want to call it. but, if you wanna know yes rel is my #1. ill correct you anytime player ,the crap you sayin on here is just a bunch of bull.you can hate all you want. you the only fool. lookin stupid after the first round the past 2 yrs.get something else to fall back on. thats cool though if you just like jt and a raider hater. but, i disagree,its nothin like cowboys and redskins. not here. well when they play im always for lee though cause i went and played there. when we play jt i just want the win and thats all. but, when i hear fools like you start talkin, i hope the knee cap go just as far as the foot does!!!

[johntylerfan]

what about the d-end yall had last year from lee. huh? where did he stay? yes you name ross and said thats justy one.hell thats all you could name. i even went to lee and stayed across from boulter. thats all over tyler son. plus ross went to lee the year after yall went to state against katy.yall still had a rep, so he went to lee cause thats where he wanted to go and the school he liked the most. there are people in both disrticts including chapell that goes to other schools. lee is no jt south.wilson tried to get me to go to jt when i was at lee. you can kill that crap. yes i rep both schools and i am a proud foo if thats what you want to call it. but, if you wanna know yes rel is my #1. ill correct you anytime player ,the crap you sayin on here is just a bunch of bull.you can hate all you want. you the only fool. lookin stupid after the first round the past 2 yrs.get something else to fall back on. thats cool though if you just like jt and a raider hater. but, i disagree,its nothin like cowboys and redskins. not here. well when they play im always for lee though cause i went and played there. when we play jt i just want the win and thats all. but, when i hear fools like you start talkin, i hope the knee cap go just as far as the foot does!!!

This will always be a sticking point here in Tyler. Both of ya'll have touched on something that has been a problem in this city. REL winning state didn't bother me at all, because I have some respect for them. They are part of Tyler as well. JT IS MY NUMBER ONE THOUGH! I don't wish REL ill will until they play Cujo. Tyler isd needs to redraw the lines in this city IMO because it has caused alot problems with residency. If they could just clarify this then both sides of town would be very happy. I consider REL to be JT's biggest rival. You have to respect a team anytime they win a state title too. My Dad went to REL and my Mom to JT. JT is were I graduated from and will always be my #1 high school team. I will say that JT DOES NOT get fair shake on perception in this city. If the powers that be in Tyler would just give the school more backing on certain issues than the northside would be better off. JT takes way too much persecution from the media compared to the other high schools in east Texas and it pisses me off to no end:mad: ! This should not be a north vs.south issue but TISD wide issue. All I ask for is fairness in this city on educational issues.

[99cujo]

This will always be a sticking point here in Tyler. Both of ya'll have touched on something that has been a problem in this city. REL winning state didn't bother me at all, because I have some respect for them. They are part of Tyler as well. JT IS MY NUMBER ONE THOUGH! I don't wish REL ill will until they play Cujo. Tyler isd needs to redraw the lines in this city IMO because it has caused alot problems with residency. If they could just clarify this then both sides of town would be very happy. I consider REL to be JT's biggest rival. You have to respect a team anytime they win a state title too. My Dad went to REL and my Mom to JT. JT is were I graduated from and will always be my #1 high school team. I will say that JT DOES NOT get fair shake on perception in this city. If the powers that be in Tyler would just give the school more backing on certain issues than the northside would be better off. JT takes way too much persecution from the media compared to the other high schools in east Texas and it pisses me off to no end:mad: ! This should not be a north vs.south issue but TISD wide issue. All I ask for is fairness in this city on educational issues.I hear ya my Brother, I work with one of the media here in Tyler... & what I go through is a shame how the show little respect for JT. A few years ago JT won district in BB at REL guess who fans or players made front page? Let a fight or a football player get in trouble at JT .All over the news & front page but when thoses players from REL got in trouble my job said nothin one news station said something about it .The same o mess. Now about the border line why do it comes all in our hood? To get players & the fool that said that he live right across from Boulter & went to Lee sound like you have issue. And could not play good enough to hang with the with the kind of kids that go to Boulter & JT We are glad the you went to Lee because we don't need your kind over here anyway. JT ALL THE WAY

[big red & cujo]

I hear ya my Brother, I work with one of the media here in Tyler... & what I go through is a shame how the show little respect for JT. A few years ago JT won district in BB at REL guess who fans or players made front page? Let a fight or a football player get in trouble at JT .All over the news & front page but when thoses players from REL got in trouble my job said nothin one news station said something about it .The same o mess. Now about the border line why do it comes all in our hood? To get players & the fool that said that he live right across from Boulter & went to Lee sound like you have issue. And could not play good enough to hang with the with the kind of kids that go to Boulter & JT We are glad the you went to Lee because we don't need your kind over here anyway. JT ALL THE WAY

ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!:cool:

[mojotrain]

In the ECISD (Covers Odessa High and Permian) one could say that local policy is in direct contrast with UIL rules if looked at a certain way. We have an extensive AP/ IB program at one high school and very little at the other. Kids, regardless of where they live within the district, can choose to go to another school for academic reasons. We also have several magnet schools (not at the high school level) which are geared in different directions, ie science, dance, art, etc. So, the magnet schools and specialty programs do allow a parent to choose a school based on their childs talents... regardless of what UIL says. These kids then go on to participate in academic contests, artistic contests, dance competitions, etc. (All of this is within the same district though - so it may be a local decision)

Personally, I concur with the UIL regulations in so far as it curtails recruiting, unethical financial gain, or other gain for kids athletic abilities. I do not believe it's fair, in that parents ALONE can't make a choice like this based solely on what is best for their kids. Unfortunately, I don't see how you can ban one form of transfer (money, recruiting) and keep the other.

And in reality, parents who feel their child will do better in school A will move there. The UIL can investigate and if there was no outside factors in the move (friends, coaches, monetary gain) they can not prove what a parent is thinking when they made the decision.

Isn't there a magnet school in Odessa for Sports?

[mojotrain]

[QUOTE=twhfan#1;448034]The Conroe - Oak ridge example is exactly what is wrong with the rule as it stands --you are right that since it is an "intra-CISD " move UIL is not concerned --- but the 15-5A district executive committe is -- & each D.E.C applies rules on a case-by-case basis so there are a lot of different rulings that some times contradict ---opens up for a lot of "trading votes" --back when Woodlands was in district with Klein ISD -- the 4 Klein schools voted as a block & Conroe always votes against TWH whatever the issue --so TWH was out-voted unless they could get Klein ISD to vote with them

A school that is voted down in D.E.C. can appeal to UIL --but that is a mistake --the UIL doesnt like ruling in these cases & rarely overturns the district committe --plus UIL has a tendacy to get back at the appealing school ( they have many ways to do that ! ! ! ) --you DO NOT want to get on bad side of UIL

In 1993 (I think) Odessa High transfered a player to Permian in agreement with both schools. He wound up playing 3rd string guard and played very little. Permian went 9 wins and 1 tie. They won the first playoff game against Lubbock Coronado 34-17. The uil was notified of this player and Permian was booted from the playoffs. So it depends a lot on who you are, its not all cut and dried nor black and white.

[AE 8008]

what about seniors?
scenario: kids dad gets a job in another city, and wants the family to move with him. kid will be a senior the next year. does he still have to sit out?

[HUM398]

ahhh..(pleasant sigh)

Nothing like watching Big Cujo, and 99 butcher the English language.


Does it get any better then this?

:puke

[twhfan#1]

Here is an example of what can happenwith a transfer

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FM transfer ruled ineligible at Coppell


By BRANDON GEORGE / The Dallas Morning News
bgeorge@dallasnews.com

Coppell sophomore Jacob Morris, who transferred from Flower Mound two weeks ago, will have to sit out a calendar year of varsity athletics because the District 6-5A executive committee ruled that he switched schools for athletic purposes, Coppell ISD athletic director John Crawford said.

Crawford said Morris' parents have already filed an appeal with the UIL state executive committee. He said a hearing date has yet to be set in Austin for the appeal.

Morris was a starting pitcher for Flower Mound's baseball team and the starting quarterback for its football team. Since transferring, Morris has been playing on Coppell's junior varsity baseball team.

[nsmustang]

Here is an example of what can happenwith a transfer

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FM transfer ruled ineligible at Coppell


By BRANDON GEORGE / The Dallas Morning News
bgeorge@dallasnews.com

Coppell sophomore Jacob Morris, who transferred from Flower Mound two weeks ago, will have to sit out a calendar year of varsity athletics because the District 6-5A executive committee ruled that he switched schools for athletic purposes, Coppell ISD athletic director John Crawford said.

Crawford said Morris' parents have already filed an appeal with the UIL state executive committee. He said a hearing date has yet to be set in Austin for the appeal.

Morris was a starting pitcher for Flower Mound's baseball team and the starting quarterback for its football team. Since transferring, Morris has been playing on Coppell's junior varsity baseball team.


You're not supposed to say you transferred for athletic reasons. They should've said they were moving closer to their jobs or whatever....:rolleyes:

[DrEdward]

Here is an example of what can happenwith a transfer

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FM transfer ruled ineligible at Coppell


By BRANDON GEORGE / The Dallas Morning News
bgeorge@dallasnews.com

Coppell sophomore Jacob Morris, who transferred from Flower Mound two weeks ago, will have to sit out a calendar year of varsity athletics because the District 6-5A executive committee ruled that he switched schools for athletic purposes, Coppell ISD athletic director John Crawford said.

Crawford said Morris' parents have already filed an appeal with the UIL state executive committee. He said a hearing date has yet to be set in Austin for the appeal.

Morris was a starting pitcher for Flower Mound's baseball team and the starting quarterback for its football team. Since transferring, Morris has been playing on Coppell's junior varsity baseball team.

For the folks at Flower Mound, didn't Morris or his parents as much as threaten FM that he would transfer? That is what I have heard happened in any event, but I have no independent confirmation of it. It would seem from the 6-5A ruling that something along those lines must have occured. It is a shame, but I don't see the UIL overruling the district's executive committee on this one, especially if what I have heard is true.