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SLCDad
09-15-2005, 10:30 AM
We all know that upsets happen every week. In most games the best team on that night wins. However, there are times when a team clearly outplays the other team and still loses. The other team "steals" the game.

Can you think of examples?

In 2002 SLC played Arlington Sam Houston in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Sam Houston had a record of 6-5. SLC won the game but I think they stole it. SLC was clearly the better team coming in, but on that night Sam Houston had it going on. Their offense outgained SLC 2 to 1. They were running the ball up and down the field all night long. Sam Houston lost the game due to some STUPID coaching moves. They tried a trick punt play and failed. They did an on-side kick early in game and failed. They went for it on 4th down deep in their own territory and failed. These plays had the impact of 3 turnovers. The coach may have felt these plays were needed to beat SLC but if they had played "straight up" football they would have won the game. On this night, Sam Houston was better than SLC but SLC stole the game 19-16.

A case could be made for the first Lufkin/SLC game also.

Anyone have other examples?

dragonsdaddy
09-15-2005, 10:32 AM
sh also would send in a different offense in the red zone, which failed miserably. i thanked them every time i saw it happening.

Fleeman93
09-15-2005, 10:36 AM
The way I look at upsets is to say that if you played a game 20 times what would have been the results. With that said two games that I can think of for Katy off the top of my head are the championship game in 2003 and Clear Lake last year.

SLC - 15 - 5
Lake - 4 - 16

CCBoy
09-15-2005, 10:45 AM
sh also would send in a different offense in the red zone, which failed miserably. i thanked them every time i saw it happening.
Arlington Sam Houston could be a great team if they played with the same intensity as they play great teams than average teams or less. In 2002 Carter barely got passed the Texans just as they did the next three years. They play harder competition better than what they play in their own district. So I would say Sam Houston vs Carter 02,03,04,and 05 were it could have been a stolen game any of those years by either team, but luckily Carter pulled them all out. They'll get it together one day, but I remember that QB back in 2002, he was unstoppable.

rich_pack
09-15-2005, 11:16 AM
the first SlC-Lufkin game was for sure. Lufkin had that game won, but for some reason, with 2 minutes left to go and a lead, they decide to throw the ball instead of running the clock out and throw an interception. Stupid play at the time.

pack0808
09-15-2005, 11:19 AM
OH please erase this thread i beg you!! LOL You know what is coming right?? Yall do not want this to turn into another 40 page thread with Longview and Lufkin fans going at it about last year's game do you?? :D

bhs06
09-15-2005, 11:20 AM
Rain helped us beat Irving last year. Had we played them on the Friday Night, we would have got killed. But since we played it on a Saturday afternoon we won.

Last year against Flower Mound we thought we had the game won so we just ran up the middle each play. But Flower Mound took the lead and we had to play catchup. You know what we did? Run up the middle each play. Our final drive to attempt to come back and tie/win was a 4-and-out, play call was Fullback Trap up the middle, Tailback run up the middle, fullback trap up the middle, then a speed option. Pathetic.

pack0808
09-15-2005, 11:22 AM
Maybe we should rename this thread to the would of could of should of thread??

LPanther
09-15-2005, 11:32 AM
the first SlC-Lufkin game was for sure. Lufkin had that game won, but for some reason, with 2 minutes left to go and a lead, they decide to throw the ball instead of running the clock out and throw an interception. Stupid play at the time.
rich pack,
The Panthers didn't have the lead when they threw the last interception......the game was tied at thirty. However they threw an interception on 1st down midway through the third while up 30-14 that changed the momentum. There were several plays that went SLC's way that day that could've helped the Pack to victory, but it wasn't meant to be. To me the biggest play was when Parks ran it in from about 30 yds. as the 1st half ended. He spiked the ball and Lufkin was moved back 15 yds. on the PAT and missed it. Had they gone up 31-14, they probably end up running out the clock to win. The other big play was the 4th down conversion by SLC that went right through the hands of a Lufkin LB.

LongviewLobo209
09-15-2005, 11:38 AM
Last year in the third round of the playoffs. CAn you get it? Longview vs. Lufkin is right! You all knew it was coming, and I will just go ahead and say it. I know we were the better team last year. However, I will agree that the other games of the winning streak Lufkin did have the better team.

CAUTION: Lufkin fans please do not get hostile, for this is just an opinion. If you want to express yours please do so in a friendly fashion as I have! ;)

SLCDad
09-15-2005, 11:41 AM
rich pack,
The Panthers didn't have the lead when they threw the last interception......the game was tied at thirty. However they threw an interception on 1st down midway through the third while up 30-14 that changed the momentum. There were several plays that went SLC's way that day that could've helped the Pack to victory, but it wasn't meant to be. To me the biggest play was when Parks ran it in from about 30 yds. as the 1st half ended. He spiked the ball and Lufkin was moved back 15 yds. on the PAT and missed it. Had they gone up 31-14, they probably end up running out the clock to win. The other big play was the 4th down conversion by SLC that went right through the hands of a Lufkin LB.Some have posted on this board that the 2002 team was the best ever for SLC. I disagree. SLC was very fortunate to get the Lufkin and Sam Houston victories. Like I said at the top of this thread, a case could be made that the best team didn't win either of these games. However, in 2004 I think SLC was the best team in every game they played.

Lufkin has a fabulous program and everyone knows it. If we play again I just hope the score isn't tied 30-30 late in the 4th quarter. My heart couldn't take another one.

pack0808
09-15-2005, 11:56 AM
Last year in the third round of the playoffs. CAn you get it? Longview vs. Lufkin is right! You all knew it was coming, and I will just go ahead and say it. I know we were the better team last year. However, I will agree that the other games of the winning streak Lufkin did have the better team.

CAUTION: Lufkin fans please do not get hostile, for this is just an opinion. If you want to express yours please do so in a friendly fashion as I have! ;)


I refuse to respond!! That game has been played over and over and analyzed 100 million times and nobody is going to change their mind. :rolleyes:

pack0808
09-15-2005, 11:57 AM
Some have posted on this board that the 2002 team was the best ever for SLC. I disagree. SLC was very fortunate to get the Lufkin and Sam Houston victories. Like I said at the top of this thread, a case could be made that the best team didn't win either of these games. However, in 2004 I think SLC was the best team in every game they played.

Lufkin has a fabulous program and everyone knows it. If we play again I just hope the score isn't tied 30-30 late in the 4th quarter. My heart couldn't take another one.


I agree, if they meet again let's hope Lufkin is ahead 40-10 instead and it will help both of our hearts. ;)

bleedgreen
09-15-2005, 12:00 PM
yea, Lufkin stole the game last season---LOL...........................

wide-e-wide
09-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Do so in a friendly fashion.
Okay ...
Longview turned the ball over 5 freakin' times! ......ummm sir/maam
How is that a stolen game?
More like a given game...wouldn't you say?

Oh friendly...I almost forgot.
The sun was high in the sky that day. I heard the birds chirping...and
I could smell the grass as I walked past the field of play.

AND

Longview freakin' LOST!!!

pack0808
09-15-2005, 12:04 PM
yea, Lufkin stole the game last season---LOL...........................


Yeah and Lufkin fans are selling that stolen game on ebay because it did not help Lufkin win the championship. ;)

lonny23
09-15-2005, 12:25 PM
Does the headset game between Lufkin and SLC count as a stolen game? :p

I HAD to say that one! :D

That Judson-Midland game was a stolen game in 2002.

bleedgreen
09-15-2005, 12:30 PM
oh well-----to hell with that game.....at least we have t-shirts with our 2 scrimmage games wins on them----LOL.....................i love this Longview/Lufkin crap!! people's blood pressures seem to rise when this is brought up.....funny thing, nobody ever gives into anybody else on this subject----loyal fans on both sides............put that in your one-hitter and smoke on it..................

lonny23
09-15-2005, 12:51 PM
oh well-----to hell with that game.....at least we have t-shirts with our 2 scrimmage games wins on them----LOL.....................i love this Longview/Lufkin crap!! people's blood pressures seem to rise when this is brought up.....funny thing, nobody ever gives into anybody else on this subject----loyal fans on both sides............put that in your one-hitter and smoke on it..................
The best arguments are the one's where you're still friends after you stalemate and refuse to budge. Maybe the Lobos beat Lufkin this year.

rich_pack
09-15-2005, 01:12 PM
No comment on the Lufkin/SLC game last season. If they meet up this year, it looks to be just as exciting, both teams look to have awsome defenses and really good passing teams. That always makes for an exciting game. Plus I think Dez Bryant and Leonard Hewitt want some more of that speed to show against a team like that!!! Can't wait, Lufkins D will hold Longview

dragonfly
09-15-2005, 01:19 PM
Dear Lord,

Please let Lufkin and Longview meet again in the playoffs...THAT WOULD BE GREAT!

LongviewLobo209
09-15-2005, 02:10 PM
Do so in a friendly fashion.
Okay ...
Longview turned the ball over 5 freakin' times! ......ummm sir/maam
How is that a stolen game?
More like a given game...wouldn't you say?

Oh friendly...I almost forgot.
The sun was high in the sky that day. I heard the birds chirping...and
I could smell the grass as I walked past the field of play.

AND

Longview freakin' LOST!!!

Love the sarcasm wide! Longview, Lufkin threads have to be one of the most popular and sometimes brutal threads on this site. I think everyone in the state would love to see a rematch of this game, especially Longview. Anytime we have a chance at Lufkin I will take it. Both schools have dedicated fans and bring huge crowds. Notice I said both teams dont have great fans, because I have experienced Lufkin's Visitor's side, and those are not great fans. Just had to get my two cents in.

LPanther
09-15-2005, 02:29 PM
Some have posted on this board that the 2002 team was the best ever for SLC. I disagree. SLC was very fortunate to get the Lufkin and Sam Houston victories. Like I said at the top of this thread, a case could be made that the best team didn't win either of these games. However, in 2004 I think SLC was the best team in every game they played.

Lufkin has a fabulous program and everyone knows it. If we play again I just hope the score isn't tied 30-30 late in the 4th quarter. My heart couldn't take another one.
SLCDad,
I agree with what you said. I had seen both SLC and Lufkin play heading into the 2002 and 2004 matchups. I really felt Lufkin had the better team and would win in 2002. I didn't get that feeling last year. I really believe last years' SLC team is the best one I've seen.

ThEgReAtOnE
09-15-2005, 02:46 PM
[1995 5A Divsion II Bi-District Playoffs:
Garland Lakeview Centennial 34, Richardson Lake Highlands 34

Lakeview had what was highly touted as "The Dream Team" entrenched with 14 future Div-1 Collegiate players and 4 future NFL Draftees, including current Washington Redskin Derrick Dockery. Lake Highlands was led by their future NFL draftee/super-athlete, and perhaps one of the greatest Texas High School quarterbacks of all time, Marcus Stiggers.
It was a brutal "Blood-n-Tears" game that left no stone un-turned. Lakeview battled back from a 14 point half-time deficit and tied the game in the fourth quarter, with just seconds left. Lakeview's kicker then missed an extra point that would have sealed the victory and upset the favored Wildcats. This was a game of crushing hard hits and big plays, such as the 45 yard dramatic endzone reception from Lakeview's Kareem High with just seconds remaining at the end of the first half. Lake Highlands advanced on penetrations. This game is truly one for the ages.]

I guess that summed it up. If Lakeview had beaten Lake Highlands it would have been tough to stop them. They had 2 all-americans and 4 all-state players. I think 9 players made all-district. (And that was when Lakeview, Mesquite, Garland, North Mesquite, South Garland, North Garland and Desoto was in the same district. And at that time they were all good, if not great squads!!!)

Oh, and Eisenhower over Northshore in 2002. I was present for that one. Wow!! Northshore was #1 in the state and fell hard!! Good game. Scores back and forth.....and the defenses were good....the offenses were just better.

zippy
09-15-2005, 02:48 PM
SV "steals" a lot of games. They almost always have less "stats" than the other team does (when playing a good team), however I dont think this is stealing the game, I think it is part of the battle. The SV players are usually smaller, slower, and just plain less athletic. This disadvantage is evened out in the coaching booth. SV players tend to be very intelligent, and do exactly what is asked of them, and the coaching staff will make changes when needed that work. They also work on the "little things" which produce "large" payoffs at gametime (special teams, turnovers, etc.) So call it stealing if you want, but I would just say winning without the stats. If SV beats Judson this year, you will see a perfect example. (I said if, and I mean if)

GoOwls
09-15-2005, 10:40 PM
Wins are wins.
Loses are loses.
Ties suck.
Excuses are the crutch of the loser.

If a teams plays poorly and a lesser team takes advantage of that, they didn't steal the game, they converted opportunities.
A talented team that loses focus, or makes mental mistakes and loses simply exposes their teams flaws or weaknesses and proves that a talented team can be beat if an opportunistic team exposes their flaws.

TheProphet
09-15-2005, 10:43 PM
I will just add that lufkin in the most underachieved team of high school football thus far in the 21st century

GoOwls
09-15-2005, 11:07 PM
Well, them or Longview. No offense to Lufkin or Longview folks, but I was shocked about a year ago when I got on these boards with frequency, and found out that Longview had won only 1 title and it was in 1937 or 38, I think. I had always considered them a monster, they usually handled our district pretty well and pretty much anybody else, that I remember. They are a 600 pound gorilla but they are not a closer, at least historically.

CoppellCowboy57
09-15-2005, 11:27 PM
Duncanville/Coppell

Over the past three years coppell has won this game, this year, as most people thought after a great preformance against Jesuit, and a Decent showing against #1 SLC, that Coppell would roll...Duncanville came up big deffensivly and stoped the #1 running back in the country, Moody...

LGVAg
09-16-2005, 03:13 AM
Longview-Evangel 2004

ECA had like 27 first downs to LV's 10, and like 200 more total yards.

In OT, they fumbled the ball and held LV to -2 yards. Luckily, the Bos had a great kicker who made a 45 yard FG to win.

lonny23
09-16-2005, 03:18 AM
Well, them or Longview. No offense to Lufkin or Longview folks, but I was shocked about a year ago when I got on these boards with frequency, and found out that Longview had won only 1 title and it was in 1937 or 38, I think. I had always considered them a monster, they usually handled our district pretty well and pretty much anybody else, that I remember. They are a 600 pound gorilla but they are not a closer, at least historically.
You are very correct. It was 1937. To a certain extent, I judge clutch and choker status based upon titles and # of D1 recruits. Some schools win without the top talent and others have the talent and don't finish.

SLCDad
09-16-2005, 09:37 AM
You are very correct. It was 1937. To a certain extent, I judge clutch and choker status based upon titles and # of D1 recruits. Some schools win without the top talent and others have the talent and don't finish.Great HS talent doesn't always translate into D1 recruits. There are some guys that are great HS players and, at the HS level, out shine others who are D1 recruits. Just because a team has few D1 recruits doesn't necessarily mean they have less talent for the HS game (just less talent for the college game).

Size is usually the difference.

rich_pack
09-16-2005, 09:57 AM
Lufkin and Longview may not win champiopnships every year like some schools do, but you have to look at what they have had to accomplish in those years. I dont think alot of the teams that won state in those years had to play as tough district games as they did. You always have three of the five in the district ranked in the top 10 or 15 in the state. The only way to get there is to fight each other first. By the time they get there they are worn out

bleedgreen
09-16-2005, 10:16 AM
good post, rich-pack........yea, 1 state title back in '37.........as for the past few years, the round-robin format in our district has worn Longview, Lee, and Lufkin completely out...as of lately, the main reason that we are not finishing is because of the Lufkin Panthers.....on a crash course with them everytime, usually 3rd round.....our own East Texas "brother" is the one eliminating us, not anyone else.....we beat hell out of everyone else, look at the stats....hate losing to them 9 times in a row, but at least they are from East Texas--that makes it a "little" easier to digest.....if not for them, i believe over the last few years, we would have won at least 1, if not 2 titles...SLC or not.....just my opinion...this season seems like the best chance to win it since 1997 when we lost it to Katy......not trying to make excuses---just rationalizing--LOL..........

dragonsdaddy
09-16-2005, 10:18 AM
good post, rich-pack........yea, 1 state title back in '37.........as for the past few years, the round-robin format in our district has worn Longview, Lee, and Lufkin completely out...as of lately, the main reason that we are not finishing is because of the Lufkin Panthers.....on a crash course with them everytime, usually 3rd round.....our own East Texas "brother" is the one eliminating us, not anyone else.....we beat hell out of everyone else, look at the stats....hate losing to them 9 times in a row, but at least they are from East Texas--that makes it a "little" easier to digest.....if not for them, i believe over the last few years, we would have won at least 1, if not 2 titles...SLC or not.....just my opinion...this season seems like the best chance to win it since 1997 when we lost it to Katy......not trying to make excuses---just rationalizing--LOL..........i guess the most accurate way of expressing your confidence bleed would be to proclaim the fact that lview is undefeated vs slc, just like kt. lp can't say that.

bleedgreen
09-16-2005, 10:22 AM
we will fix Lufkins little red wagon for them when the time comes-----you heard it here first, Panther fans....just please---no more L-L-L-L-P-P-P songs blasted all over the stadium at level 10....that's pathetic!! yea, they stole the game last season---LOL......got to keep the fire burning hot...i love to see you Lufkin fans get pissed off so easy--LOL...you want some?? come and get it!!!

bleedgreen
09-16-2005, 10:25 AM
yea, that's an excellent way to put it, DD....damn, why didn't i think of that??---LOL..........i have always heard that we would match up better with you guys than Lufkin...i have heard this numerous times....if so, why is that?? if Lufkin has beaten us so many times, why would we match up better with SLC??? have you heard this before???

pack0808
09-16-2005, 10:35 AM
Maybe in 2004 Longview would have matched up better with SLC then Lufkin but definitely not in 2002 when Lufkin beat Longview 3 times. Both the 2002 and 2004 games were great great games with unbelievable finishes but the difference was SLC made the plays in the final few minutes. Great teams do that when challenged!!

lonny23
09-16-2005, 10:46 AM
I can't really say that B is greater than A, C is greater than B, and the obvious conclusion would be that C is greater than A. It doesn't always work, but there's still a pretty good chance that SLC would beat Longview. My .02 is that no champion in the last few years was heads and shoulders above the rest of the state except maybe the North Shore team of 2003.

Northshore Stang Parent06
09-16-2005, 02:16 PM
[1995 5A Divsion II Bi-District Playoffs:
Garland Lakeview Centennial 34, Richardson Lake Highlands 34

Lakeview had what was highly touted as "The Dream Team" entrenched with 14 future Div-1 Collegiate players and 4 future NFL Draftees, including current Washington Redskin Derrick Dockery. Lake Highlands was led by their future NFL draftee/super-athlete, and perhaps one of the greatest Texas High School quarterbacks of all time, Marcus Stiggers.
It was a brutal "Blood-n-Tears" game that left no stone un-turned. Lakeview battled back from a 14 point half-time deficit and tied the game in the fourth quarter, with just seconds left. Lakeview's kicker then missed an extra point that would have sealed the victory and upset the favored Wildcats. This was a game of crushing hard hits and big plays, such as the 45 yard dramatic endzone reception from Lakeview's Kareem High with just seconds remaining at the end of the first half. Lake Highlands advanced on penetrations. This game is truly one for the ages.]

I guess that summed it up. If Lakeview had beaten Lake Highlands it would have been tough to stop them. They had 2 all-americans and 4 all-state players. I think 9 players made all-district. (And that was when Lakeview, Mesquite, Garland, North Mesquite, South Garland, North Garland and Desoto was in the same district. And at that time they were all good, if not great squads!!!)

Oh, and Eisenhower over Northshore in 2002. I was present for that one. Wow!! Northshore was #1 in the state and fell hard!! Good game. Scores back and forth.....and the defenses were good....the offenses were just better.

is there any film of this game i would love to see a game like this. :eek: