Stadiums and Indoor Practice Facilities

[SLCDad]

Since the hijacked thread about big stadiums and indoor practice facilities was closed, I'll re-open one with the appropriate title.

Some folks from Ohio posted that the HS stadiums and indoor practice facilities in Texas are excessive. That is not true. Consider these points regarding SLC (which is the program I'm close to).

1. The stadium is full to overflowing every week. There's is a waiting list for season tickets. The 9,000 seat stadium isn't big enough. Same is true for many other schools. Most schools share a stadium but Southlake is a one high school town.

2. I'd estimate that 600-700+ students are directly involved with the game each week with hundreds more students attending. Their participation in extracurricular activities pays huge benefits in their education and in their lives. The correlation between extracurricular activities and success in the classroom (and in life) is well established.

3. Dads and moms come to support their kids (not to mention they enjoy a great show that includes football). It's a huge family and friends event.

4. The SLC indoor practice facility cost about $1.5M to build. Ammortize that over 30 years and it's about $4K per month. Very cost effective considering all the groups that use it.

5. SLC's test scores are well above the national average. (Same with many of the successful football schools.) 99% of SLC students graduate and 95% go on to college. Generally speaking, the same high schools that have poor athletic programs also have the lowest test results.

6. Overall Texas scores could be slightly below the national average (as posted but I have no evidence of that). However, that is not unlike ALL of the southern states most of which don't have the Texas football tradition and facilities. Football is not the cause.

7. Texas is a FAST growing state. We have many new stadiums and facilities simply in response to growth. If I was building new football faciities I'd build them bigger and better than those of 40 years ago. Ohio is not growing, thus the older and smaller facilities.

Much more could be added to the list.

The sensationalistic stories about Texas HS Football excesses are overblown and lack insight into the real facts of the matter.

[dragonsdaddy]

those are all fine and good, but when your mind is made up, based on whatever preconception and stereotype you want there to be, facts aren't going to change anything.

[DiamondJ2]

What's an indoor practice facility? Ours is the gym.

[supercentex]

Waco ISD built their stadium at 16 million dollars.

The stadium was expected to be paid off within 10 years.

It was paid off in less than 3 years.

And, now that revenue is now turned around and pumped back into the school district.

So, I would say that it is not excessive.

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

SLC stadium only holds 9000...ole abe i belive holds 11,000 according to the stadium directory on the main page of 5a texas football...i dint know ur stadium was so small

[dragonsdaddy]

you can refer back to the last post of mine in the now locked smoaky thread, for an explanation.

[westlake]

Westlake has 12000+ seats, astrotruf, and a jumbotron built into the scoreboard.

No indoor practice facility, they have to tough it. We have a 100yd by 100yd practice field (double field) with 2 sets of uprights. But we have brand new weightroom, looks like the one that UT football team uses except with our colors not theirs. Brand new locker room, and facilities.

[toonman]

Since the hijacked thread about big stadiums and indoor practice facilities was closed, I'll re-open one with the appropriate title.

Some folks from Ohio posted that the HS stadiums and indoor practice facilities in Texas are excessive. That is not true. Consider these points regarding SLC (which is the program I'm close to).

1. The stadium is full to overflowing every week. There's is a waiting list for season tickets. The 9,000 seat stadium isn't big enough. Same is true for many other schools. Most schools share a stadium but Southlake is a one high school town.

2. I'd estimate that 600-700+ students are directly involved with the game each week with hundreds more students attending. Their participation in extracurricular activities pays huge benefits in their education and in their lives. The correlation between extracurricular activities and success in the classroom (and in life) is well established.

3. Dads and moms come to support their kids (not to mention they enjoy a great show that includes football). It's a huge family and friends event.

4. The SLC indoor practice facility cost about $1.5M to build. Ammortize that over 30 years and it's about $4K per month. Very cost effective considering all the groups that use it.

5. SLC's test scores are well above the national average. (Same with many of the successful football schools.) 99% of SLC students graduate and 95% go on to college. Generally speaking, the same high schools that have poor athletic programs also have the lowest test results.

6. Overall Texas scores could be slightly below the national average (as posted but I have no evidence of that). However, that is not unlike ALL of the southern states most of which don't have the Texas football tradition and facilities. Football is not the cause.

7. Texas is a FAST growing state. We have many new stadiums and facilities simply in response to growth. If I was building new football faciities I'd build them bigger and better than those of 40 years ago. Ohio is not growing, thus the older and smaller facilities.

Much more could be added to the list.

The sensationalistic stories about Texas HS Football excesses are overblown and lack insight into the real facts of the matter.

Well written SLC Dad and a great summary of a successful Texas High School Extra Curricular Program

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

lufkins getting a new field house that all sports can use...dont know when it will be completed but the rate they are goin i wouldnt be surprised if its up and runnin by christmas

[dragons08]

What's an indoor practice facility? Ours is the gym.
a indoor football field, its about what 50 yards and a endzone i think? roughly and its indoors with doors and everything, its got the grassy turf stuff (like out at the stadium), a ton of people use it, one day during soccer practice there was soccer, softball, and wrestling all going on at the same time, its a great thing to have when the grass is wet and so we dont tear up the fields, i'll try to find pictures

[Redneckn]

Just because it is the "norm" for Texas does not mean that it isnt excessive.
I mean, it may not be excessive by Texas standards, but every state is not on Texas stanards.
I agree though that I would much rather be at a game in Texas than at most of the crappy facilities in Louisiana.

[dragonfootballfan]

many of the things that you posted SLCDAD are correlations between the Academic and Athletic programs and does not mean that they are truly connected.

[dragonsdaddy]

personally, i'll take better everytime. texans have rarely taken kindly to being cast equally with any other state, tyvm.

[jtk1519]

a indoor football field, its about what 50 yards and a endzone i think? roughly and its indoors with doors and everything, its got the grassy turf stuff (like out at the stadium), a ton of people use it, one day during soccer practice there was soccer, softball, and wrestling all going on at the same time, its a great thing to have when the grass is wet and so we dont tear up the fields, i'll try to find pictures

Not all are that size. Some are smaller and some are bigger. I think it is Forney in the Metroplex that has a 70 yard long indoor facility. It's only a matter of time before a high school builds a full size indoor facility.

I dont think it is excessive if the school district is taking care of everything else. Since most of the stadiums are built with bond money that cant be used for things like text books, teacher pay, etc., I dosent take anything away from academics or any other sport.

[dragons08]

Not all are that size. Some are smaller and some are bigger. I think it is Forney in the Metroplex that has a 70 yard long indoor facility. It's only a matter of time before a high school builds a full size indoor facility.

I dont think it is excessive if the school district is taking care of everything else. Since most of the stadiums are built with bond money that cant be used for things like text books, teacher pay, etc., I dosent take anything away from academics or any other sport.
i know im just saying the dimmensions of ours its big enough, the cowboys used to use it

[dragonfootballfan]

i know im just saying the dimmensions of ours its big enough, the cowboys used to use it
they used it one time in order to get used to field turf and to escape a hail storm. People read way too much into that day

[dragons08]

they used it one time in order to get used to field turf and to escape a hail storm. People read way too much into that day
wow only once? i didnt live here then, i just heard the cowboys used it for a year or something like that

[Gooseisland10]

i know im just saying the dimmensions of ours its big enough, the cowboys used to use it
Same with Coppell's

[dragonfootballfan]

wow only once? i didnt live here then, i just heard the cowboys used it for a year or something like that
they used the practice facility and the stadium in order to get used to field turf because they were going to play in Seattle and they were the first NFL team to have it

[dragons08]

Same with Coppell's
i think theirs looks similar to ours, not sure if its them though

[dragonfootballfan]

i think theirs looks similar to ours, not sure if its them though
Coppell's is different or atleast it was when I was there a few years ago. Back then it was connected to their fieldhouse and weightroom. It had astroturf and was pretty nice. I preffered Carroll's mostly because I was partial and they had astro turf

[Redneckn]

personally, i'll take better everytime. texans have rarely taken kindly to being cast equally with any other state, tyvm.


But I guess that is another point though. Nobody outside of Texas really cares what Texans take kindly to. Texas opinion generally are just that.

It reminds me of people from Canada being super proud about being Canadian. I keep asking "what is it that you are proud of again?"

Not that there is anything wrong with being proud, but most of the time, nobody cares.

As for the stadium issue, I agree with JTK1519, if the ISD can afford it, by all means, they should. I think it brings a community closer, gives them something to rally around.

[PackAttack2005]

Lufkin Class of 2008, that is not a new fieldhouse going in at Lufkin, it is a new 70 yard indoot practice facility that will also have a 45' x 170' weight room and workout area. The facility will be completed before Thanksgiving.

The new indoor facility will have the same REAL GRASS artificial surface that was installed at Abe Martin this summer along with our new scoreboard and 16' x 12' LED Replay Screen combo.

The new improvements look great.

[dragonsdaddy]

But I guess that is another point though. Nobody outside of Texas really cares what Texans take kindly to. Texas opinion generally are just that.

It reminds me of people from Canada being super proud about being Canadian. I keep asking "what is it that you are proud of again?"

Not that there is anything wrong with being proud, but most of the time, nobody cares.

As for the stadium issue, I agree with JTK1519, if the ISD can afford it, by all means, they should. I think it brings a community closer, gives them something to rally around.and luckily for all concerned, texans care even less what outsiders think. works out good for everyone.

[Redneckn]

Dragonsdaddy. You would be correct. It would work out nicely if it were really that way.

But that is another discussion for another thread on another day.

[SLCDad]

many of the things that you posted SLCDAD are correlations between the Academic and Athletic programs and does not mean that they are truly connected.You could be right, but I believe they are very much connected.

[dragonsdaddy]

read this well written and insightful thesis, and maybe you'll change your mind

http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kchi9804.htm.

[dragonfootballfan]

read this well written and insightful thesis, and maybe you'll change your mind

http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kchi9804.htm.
I understand what the article is saying, but if it is true than why is there a need for the "no pass no play" rule

[dragonsdaddy]

there are and always will be kids who aren't buying into the process. these rules put teeth into the consequences. when you let your teammates down in the crunch, it makes you want to get busy and do something about it, unless you are a true loser.

[dragons08]

I understand what the article is saying, but if it is true than why is there a need for the "no pass no play" rule
theres always someone who doesnt give a crap about school

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

Lufkin Class of 2008, that is not a new fieldhouse going in at Lufkin, it is a new 70 yard indoot practice facility that will also have a 45' x 170' weight room and workout area. The facility will be completed before Thanksgiving.

The new indoor facility will have the same REAL GRASS artificial surface that was installed at Abe Martin this summer along with our new scoreboard and 16' x 12' LED Replay Screen combo.

The new improvements look great.
thats what i meant by fieldhouse...but i guess fieldhouse would be a basketball gym or somthin like that...so ill call it what it really is...an indoor practice facility

[ktCarl]

Texas needs more indoor practice facilities 'cause it gets so dang HOT down here!

[dragons08]

Texas needs more indoor practice facilities 'cause it gets so dang HOT down here!
so indoor places get HOT as well, but its not as bad cause of no sun, plus when its raining you open some doors ohhhh man it feels gooooooooodddddddddd

[t00 playa]

SLC test scores are high because of the social class that students are in.. and the reason they are high.. as well as highland park.. and alamo heights to name a few.. is because they are not representative communities of texas as a whole.... they are fluently upper middle class areas....... when they have 75%+ economically disadvantaged students and have 80% on free and reduced lunch like most inner city schools THEN you can compare test scores. The reason test scores are higher is because these kids are obviously not on an even playing field... and before you all go off.. im speaking on behalf of the kids.... i dont care whos parents made bigger sacrifices etc etc.. that argument does nothing for kids right now.... so.. i dont buy it when ppl compare fluent higher social class kids test scores with the rest of the state when... that does not represent the whole... in order to make comparisons.. they have to be on same playing field.... and as for the comment about.. the stadium being paid off in 3yrs and etc etc.. and money being pumped back into the school district... in talking with 3 local superintendents, that is a very big misconception.. that schools bring in money especially for football.... schools lose money and if lucky.. break even.... so.. yes you might sell out a 9000 seat stadium... for 6 maybe 7 home games but that doesnt matter... there are so many overhead costs in putting a solid program out there on that field.... by the time u pay all the concession workers... all the stadium workers, all the security, pay for buses, coaching salaries, tons of equipment, both football and medical.... most schools lose money....but.. thats not whats important.... ppl and the kids love football which is the main reason why it will be here to stay permanently.... but i like said.. i was one of those with that misconception..... until i got into school finance .. and how school financing works....... besides..all stadiums are built with bond money.... so thats not a big deal anyway....

well.. sorry this is so boring.. but just thought i would throw in my two cents... and btw, i am satisfied with north shore athletic facilities and im at every north shore game ever since i can remember... and love it just as much s the next person.... but then again..i am also an educator..and wonder why they can spend millions on stadiums.... and teacher salaries are lagging....

anyway

have a GOOD ONE!

[dragons08]

why would southlake not be in the playing field? we all have to learn the same stuff, and take the same test

[t00 playa]

why would southlake not be in the playing field? we all have to learn the same stuff, and take the same test


cmon now.... you know the answer to that... and by no way was saying anything was wrong with SLC.. i would put my kid in a school system like that one....... but anyone in education.. knows the answer to your question.... money makes alot of things better. and that includes education. but I understand ur point... but studies show this is true. Sadly true. I see it every day at work.

[dragonsdaddy]

SLC test scores are high because of the social class that students are in.. and the reason they are high.. as well as highland park.. and alamo heights to name a few.. is because they are not representative communities of texas as a whole.... they are fluently upper middle class areas....... when they have 75%+ economically disadvantaged students and have 80% on free and reduced lunch like most inner city schools THEN you can compare test scores. The reason test scores are higher is because these kids are obviously not on an even playing field... and before you all go off.. im speaking on behalf of the kids.... i dont care whos parents made bigger sacrifices etc etc.. that argument does nothing for kids right now.... so.. i dont buy it when ppl compare fluent higher social class kids test scores with the rest of the state when... that does not represent the whole... in order to make comparisons.. they have to be on same playing field.... and as for the comment about.. the stadium being paid off in 3yrs and etc etc.. and money being pumped back into the school district... in talking with 3 local superintendents, that is a very big misconception.. that schools bring in money especially for football.... schools lose money and if lucky.. break even.... so.. yes you might sell out a 9000 seat stadium... for 6 maybe 7 home games but that doesnt matter... there are so many overhead costs in putting a solid program out there on that field.... by the time u pay all the concession workers... all the stadium workers, all the security, pay for buses, coaching salaries, tons of equipment, both football and medical.... most schools lose money....but.. thats not whats important.... ppl and the kids love football which is the main reason why it will be here to stay permanently.... but i like said.. i was one of those with that misconception..... until i got into school finance .. and how school financing works....... besides..all stadiums are built with bond money.... so thats not a big deal anyway....

well.. sorry this is so boring.. but just thought i would throw in my two cents... and btw, i am satisfied with north shore athletic facilities and im at every north shore game ever since i can remember... and love it just as much s the next person.... but then again..i am also an educator..and wonder why they can spend millions on stadiums.... and teacher salaries are lagging....

anyway

have a GOOD ONE!please reread your post. i guess you weren't a great speller and don't teach english now, but the word you mean to use is affluent. fluent is what we want our kids to be in english when they graduate, so they can become affluent .

[t00 playa]

please reread your post. i guess you weren't a great speller and don't teach english now, but the word you mean to use is affluent. fluent is what we want our kids to be in english when they graduate, so they can become affluent .


well i was writing it quickly because i didnt want to spend amounts of time on this subject..so who cares if i didnt proof read it.. who are you? a grammarian? no... im not turning in an academic paper, so who cares.. if thats all you can get out of that post.. i guess that means u agree with my points....

oh.. and i didnt reread it when i typed it.. nor this one either... who cares... this is a nobody board so who cares...... and im not going to sit there and get out my reference books after every post and spell check is my friend only when it counts.. and you sir.. do not count in my book.. or else i would have corrected mistakes. =)

[dragonsdaddy]

for a professed educator, i for one am glad you aren't teaching my kids . i am also hoping my tax money isn't supporting you in these endeavors. btw, you take criticism well, too. heaven forbid you might improve yourself, instead of making the same mistakes over and over, that is not a sign of intelligence where i come from.

[implacable44]

interesting repose:

1. I agree with this point althoug I am sure this happens in most
states
where football is king - i.e. Ohio Cali, Florida, Oklahoma etc.
2. not sure how this warrants the 1.5 mm cost of an indoor stadium -
Judson
has just as much if not more involvement and we dont have one - unless
you
count the gym
3. isn't that the same for every football team in the country ?
4. it cost 1.5mm to build and you want to ammortize it over 30 years
-at
$4167/month - of course you fail to consider interest rate which would
push
that payment up a little bit. You also fail to include repair costs,
maintenance etc over this 30 year period which raise your monthly cost.
5. I am not privy to this information of test scores - please post a
source
and 95% of those kids go to college because their parents can afford to
send
them - not a knock on them it is just a privelege that comes with the
money
-- hard earned money and I am sure those kids take full advantage of
it.
there are kids from poorer communities not afforded the same
opportunity but
that doesnt mean they are of a diminished value or intellect. they just
dont
have the means.

[t00 playa]

for a professed educator, i for one am glad you aren't teaching my kids . i am also hoping my tax money isn't supporting you in these endeavors. btw, you take criticism well, too. heaven forbid you might improve yourself, instead of making the same mistakes over and over, that is not a sign of intelligence where i come from.

but see how ignorant you sound? you dont know me from a hole in the ground, so you pretend to gather these opinions about others from a simple "quick" post.. but yet... then again.. thats why ppl like you only talk over boards like this because you feel protected, which is ok, and im sure your kids do the same things, and thats ok as well, chip off the old block... eh?

[t00 playa]

and for the record.. I would be willing to bet that I have more of an education than you my friend. Wait, then again, you will probably make something up and........ well.. Im sure you know the drill... =)

[t00 playa]

well anyway.... its all good dragonsdaddy.. im sure you are a stand up person, no sarcasm... and its great you are in SLC..... good discussion..... but i still refuse to proofread meaningless writings...i do that enough already during work and school hours.. this here is my get away to talk wrong, etc, no proofreading ..... =)

but back to the original post... SLC dad.. other than that point.. i agree with your post completely.. it hits the nail on the head and with good reason...
well.. gotta go! finishing off grad school is not as easy as first thought....

take it easy fellas.

[implacable44]

don't profess to have more of an education than the daddy - i fell into that trap - he is dds od lmnop all the initials you can muster. -- he has them all.

[owlbandad]

In August it gets dangerously hot in Texas.
When kids collapse from the heat and somebody has to decide to call 911, and then mom and dad, people start to see the appeal of indoor practice facilities.

Also when it's dangerously hot you just can't work as hard, no matter how much you want to.

That's why the districts that can afford them are buying them.

owlbandad

[t00 playa]

don't profess to have more of an education than the daddy - i fell into that trap - he is dds od lmnop all the initials you can muster. -- he has them all.

proof is a good thing.

[implacable44]

hey the daddy hates me -- all the "dads" do but I will vouch for his credentials - not to take anything away from yours but he is legitimate.

[dragons08]

oh.. and i didnt reread it when i typed it.. nor this one either... who cares... this is a nobody board so who cares
a nobody board? we should take that as offensive guys..

[dragons08]

hey the daddy hates me -- all the "dads" do but I will vouch for his credentials - not to take anything away from yours but he is legitimate.
he doesnt hate you, you guys havent fought in a while it seems, you guys just dont see eye to eye, but i noticed, you seem to have a gained a lot of respect for slc over the last couple months

[implacable44]

actually if you read my posts, then you would see I have always recognized the talent and the quality program that you have, I just dont subcribe to the hype that most do.

[dragons08]

actually if you read my posts, then you would see I have always recognized the talent and the quality program that you have, I just dont subcribe to the hype that most do.
oh, cause i remember you had a couple "inccidents" with some dragons, but it seems that has gone away and it seems you got a new found "love" for the dragons :D

[implacable44]

i probably still will have incidents - my first post on this thread in response to daddy on page 2 will probably lead to some - and if someone claims mcelroy to be god or starts dropping 3a victories comparing them to 5a victories on the same level then i will take issue with that - just the outlandish - but as far as recognizing the excellent program that carroll is and the talent level - i have always done that. - from day one.

[dragons08]

alright, i understand what your talking about, i 44 your good in my book

[implacable44]

you are too kind -- too kind

[CoppellCowboy57]

Coppells is very nice, (getting back on topic), its half the length of a regulation field. We very rearly used during the regular season I can recal about 10 practices over 4 yrs in the there...We used it in the off season alot, and the soccer team used it alot as well

[SLCDad]

well anyway.... its all good dragonsdaddy.. im sure you are a stand up person, no sarcasm... and its great you are in SLC..... good discussion..... but i still refuse to proofread meaningless writings...i do that enough already during work and school hours.. this here is my get away to talk wrong, etc, no proofreading ..... =)

but back to the original post... SLC dad.. other than that point.. i agree with your post completely.. it hits the nail on the head and with good reason...
well.. gotta go! finishing off grad school is not as easy as first thought....

take it easy fellas.
Keep in mind that I was posting about all extracurricular activities. On football nights hundreds of kids participate and the benefits are much more than football. Would kids join the band or drill team if they couldn't perform at the games? Conversely, the stands would be less full if it was only a football game. It's the whole package and I think it makes a difference in the lives of the kids.

[SLCDad]

i probably still will have incidents - my first post on this thread in response to daddy on page 2 will probably lead to some - and if someone claims mcelroy to be god or starts dropping 3a victories comparing them to 5a victories on the same level then i will take issue with that - just the outlandish - but as far as recognizing the excellent program that carroll is and the talent level - i have always done that. - from day one.What you fail to acknowledge my friend is that there are some 4A programs (Highland Park, LaMarque, Ennis, Stephenville . . . to name a few) that are better than the majority of 5A programs in the state. If you could broaden your view of the the football world you just might grasp the quality they have and give them the credit they deserve. They are clearly among the top progams in Texas.

[zippy]

One thing I dont thing other states realize is the $ that each game brings in. What else are you going to do with it? More on this later, #'s that is, unless someone beats me to it, I have to get to bed.

[badger95]

Westlake has 12000+ seats, astrotruf, and a jumbotron built into the scoreboard.

No indoor practice facility, they have to tough it. We have a 100yd by 100yd practice field (double field) with 2 sets of uprights. But we have brand new weightroom, looks like the one that UT football team uses except with our colors not theirs. Brand new locker room, and facilities.

Of course Westlake's weight room is about a quarter the size of UT's, but about 4 times as big as what they used to have.

Rumor has it that the Eanes Superintedent is going to float a bond in the Spring that would support an 85 yd. indoor practice facility and a Naditorium.

[dragonfootballfan]

Since the public school system in Texas is funded through property taxes and having a good football team brings a lot of great publicity to the schools, I wonder what kind of an impact a good football team has on property values.

[implacable44]

hey i am still waiting for your answer from my initial post -- especially about the ammortization over 30 years where you fail to consider interest rates and repairs - maintenance of this needed indoor facility

[SLCDad]

hey i am still waiting for your answer from my initial post -- especially about the ammortization over 30 years where you fail to consider interest rates and repairs - maintenance of this needed indoor facilityAmmortization by definition is the spreading the capital cost over the life of the project. That's what I quoted.

If you want to discuss the operating costs of an indoor facility compared to indoor gyms and/or outdoor facilities go ahead.

[zippy]

I still need to get the numbers, but I do know that a lot of times the larger banks in the area will sponsor these projects to some extent. Say you want a new big screen, or new astroplay, or new stadium. If you agree to have the banks advertisement on the scoreboard, in the program, or at the snack box, then they will work with you on the loan. Also a lot of these funds are raised by the booster clubs. Donations, ticket sales, t-shirts and hats. When you have 5000 fans at district games, buying programs, tickets, caps, food, this adds up quick. Then you get, what 10K to have the state game on TV? The better the team does, the better the facilities. If this isnt the case, you better have some dedicated fans. As for maintenance, I know that SV coaches help with what they can in the off season.

hey i am still waiting for your answer from my initial post -- especially about the ammortization over 30 years where you fail to consider interest rates and repairs - maintenance of this needed indoor facility

[implacable44]

wow - are you trying to educate me on finance ? I was in the finance business for 10 years -8 of it mortgages. your figures you quoted were at 0% interest which would make it a gift by law. i said your figures were low for two reasons - not just the maintenance and repair - but your failure to include interest.

[SLCDad]

wow - are you trying to educate me on finance ? I was in the finance business for 10 years -8 of it mortgages. your figures you quoted were at 0% interest which would make it a gift by law. i said your figures were low for two reasons - not just the maintenance and repair - but your failure to include interest.I don't think you want to compare credentials here, trust me.

Let me repost (read carefully): "Ammortization by definition is the spreading the capital cost over the life of the project. That's what I quoted."

"If you want to discuss the operating costs of an indoor facility compared to indoor gyms and/or outdoor facilities go ahead."

The cost of capital (interest) is not included in ammortization. It's a valid expense (along with the rest you mention) but it's not ammortization.

Your constant arguments drive me nuts. Frankly, it astounds me that you want to argue about this.

Please . . . leave me alone.

[implacable44]

you cant ammortize over 30 years without interest. if you are saying Southlake financed the building it wasn't at 0% interest was it ? all i am saying is your figures are off - way off and misleading. and we can compare credentials anyday. stop posting falsehoods and garbage to try and make your point - you are mr. half truth.

[dragons08]

haha i guess i spoke to soon there I 44 huh? hahahaha

[implacable44]

i dont know - i guess so. see all i am saying here is you cant make a post to justify an indoor facility with half truths. southlake has an indoor facility - who cares? it is good for them and lord knows the taxes are high enough in this area that keller - birdville etc should all be able to afford indoor facilities. - you can't make a statement about ammortizing over 30 years at 0% interest with a monthly cost of x and expect for me to take it as a truth. you leave out too many variables - i.e. - the interest rate , maintenance and repairs - the true cost of that facility per month is not $4133 - and you shouldn't be allowed to make comments like that to rationalize something - look we have an indoor facility and you dont - so ??

[SLCDad]

you cant ammortize over 30 years without interest. if you are saying Southlake financed the building it wasn't at 0% interest was it ? all i am saying is your figures are off - way off and misleading. and we can compare credentials anyday. stop posting falsehoods and garbage to try and make your point - you are mr. half truth.You ammortize the principle not the interest.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes the other expenses are all very valid. For the 3rd time. I agree.

What a stupid discussion!!

[implacable44]

you dont exclude the interest in your quote of a monthly cost.

stupid maybe - but corrective.

[SLCDad]

you dont exclude the interest in your quote of a monthly cost.

stupid maybe - but corrective.Yes, but I didn't quote total monthly cost (expense is the more correct term). I quoted ammortization. It's an indication of what the construction costs are, spread over the life of the facility. Most people balk at the construction costs but considering that the facility lasts for many years it's really not a huge amount.

Like I said, if you want to include all of the rest of the expense that's valid. You are correct. Be my guest in doing a more comprehensive analysis.

[tailgater]

All right guys - that 's all we need here is two accountants going at it -
BORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!

Let's talk Football.

[forest99]

does anybody have any links or pictures to show of high school indoor facilities in texas, or anywhere for that matter? also extremely nice and overpriced probably stadiums?

[Slim-Rob]

a indoor football field, its about what 50 yards and a endzone i think? roughly and its indoors with doors and everything, its got the grassy turf stuff (like out at the stadium), a ton of people use it, one day during soccer practice there was soccer, softball, and wrestling all going on at the same time, its a great thing to have when the grass is wet and so we dont tear up the fields, i'll try to find pictures

Ours is the size of a basketball court...It has a hardwood floor...basketball goals...oh wait, thats the gym. We practice outside unless there is lightning, then we go in the gym. Our outdoor practice facility is 2 100 yard fields with goal posts on one side. They sit perpindicular to each other (-|). We also have one that is also a soccer practice field, has 2 soccer goals and 1 goalpost. We practice at the stadium on the turf on Wednesdays and Thursdays.

[SLCDad]

All right guys - that 's all we need here is two accountants going at it -
BORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!

Let's talk Football.Your comment reminds me of a poster I saw on an office wall at my firm a few years back. It showed a very good looking and well dressed man. The caption read: "Accountancy was my life . . . then I discovered Smirnoff."

[gwdaddy]

Yes, but I didn't quote total monthly cost (expense is the more correct term). I quoted ammortization. It's an indication of what the construction costs are, spread over the life of the facility. Most people balk at the construction costs but considering that the facility lasts for many years it's really not a huge amount.

Like I said, if you want to include all of the rest of the expense that's valid. You are correct. Be my guest in doing a more comprehensive analysis.

It shouldn't take a CPA to point out that amortize and amortization are spelled with one "m", but since I am one, I will. ;)

[mad_fan]

All right guys - that 's all we need here is two accountants going at it -
BORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!

Let's talk Football.


three, i want to play also. (i was wondering who else had the time to post here all day).

[STJL41]

I see nothing wrong with an indoor practice facility if the district which is buliding it can afford to shoulder the costs. If the money cannot go towards educational needs (i.e. bond money), then why shouldn't it go towards something that will, in the end, produce more revenue for the district?

And I fully believe that such a structure would produce more revenue. Better facilities can produce better teams (notice I said CAN), and better teams sell more tickets, plain and simple.

The main problem I have with the idea is it being built in multi school districts. Look at Katy ISD, for example. I use this, because that's where I am. I fully believe you could use this scenario in any school district with multiple schools who share the same resources.

Katy ISD has 4 varsity football programs (Katy, Taylor, Cinco Ranch and Mayde Creek) and two more on the way (Morton Ranch and Seven Lakes). If Katy ISD were to build an indoor practice facility like the one used by SLC, how could this possibly benefit any of those teams? Six different teams trying to use a facility which would most likely only be able to house one practice at a time seems like a waste to me. Each team would be using the field once a week, maybe less depending on what night they have a game scheduled that week. Who gets it when and how much?

One could argue that, given Katy HS is the only legit playoff contender year in and year out from the district, they should have more use of the facility. The rich get richer. Nobody outside Katy HS would ever go for something like that.

In the end, I don't see how having an indoor facility could really hurt a district (assuming the money is there). Of course, in my opinion, I don't really see how they would do much good in larger districts.

I hope that made sense, because I was kind of in a rush while posting it.

[dragonsdaddy]

at least one school in lville isd-fm marcus has their own indoor. i don't know for sure, but i think they all do. you are right, one central facility wouldn't be of much use.

[tailgater]

Your comment reminds me of a poster I saw on an office wall at my firm a few years back. It showed a very good looking and well dressed man. The caption read: "Accountancy was my life . . . then I discovered Smirnoff."

SLCDAD - good sense of humor.

I sure would like to see SLC play North Shore one day. That would be one Hec of a game. Game would problaby have to be played in San Antonio.

[chap fan]

I'm surprised the badger knows more about Westlake bond issues than I do. Yes, there has been talk about a natatorium "some day" and an indoor practice facility, because those are used not only be athletics but also band, dance team and cheerleaders. However, until someone kills or neuters Robin Hood, I don't see how we could afford to run either one. We can pay to build them with bonds, but we couldn't afford the electricity and other maintenance costs when we continue to have to cut teachers every year because Robin Hood is now stealing over half of our property tax dollars (with no relief in sight).