Enough of Amaechi

[WestPlano006]

He's gay, we get it. Let's move on to more important things in sports. The Hardaway comments were classic though.

Being gay does not entitle you to sympathy or special treatment, we are all out there to make a living too.

[wide-e-wide]

I agree...
If it were November this story would be long gone by now.

[jtk1519]

Being gay does not entitle you to sympathy or special treatment, we are all out there to make a living too.

But it makes blatant, ignorant hate speech acceptable?! Give me a http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/censored.gif break. Tim Hardaway is no different than a goose-stepping Nazi or a cross burning clansman and his comments should be treated with the same kind of disgust and outrage as a spray-painted swastika on the side of a synagogue.

In a world where a kid like Matthew Sheppard is now a statistic because of his sexual orientation and the bigoted monsters who could not look past that, I am at a loss for words as to why Hardaway's prejudice, hate-filled comments have been met with such flippant acceptance. When you have a high profile person get on the radio and tell the world that he hates gay people and then sees his comments met with any kind of acceptance, this is truly a dark day for America.

[WestPlano006]

While it may be prejudice, I don't want a small percentage of the population dictating how my future kids view sexual orientation.

[jtk1519]

While it may be prejudice, I don't want a small percentage of the population dictating how my future kids view sexual orientation.

Then be a good parent and they wont. And if you feel your parental abilities and abilities to teach your child compromised by a gay former basketball player (who nobody has even heard of), then I would recommend you quit making kids.

[jtk1519]

While it may be prejudice, I don't want a small percentage of the population dictating how my future kids view black people/Jews/immigrants, etc.

Pretty scary how easy it is to breed hate.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Pmp Aint Easzy!!!!!!!!!

[jtk1519]

Pmp Aint Easzy!!!!!!!!!

Nor legal.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Nor legal.

PREEEEEEEEECHHH!

[jtk1519]

You have to appreciate a young entrepreneur. :cool:

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

You have to appreciate a young entrepreneur. :cool:

YEE

[dada]

NBA has banned Hardaway from Vegas this weekend.

[Favpack]

NBA has banned Hardaway from Vegas this weekend.

I still don't think Tim gets it - but his pocketbook is catching on.

You can't hate - period.

[slorch]

there is freedom of religion in America, unless you're anti-secularist

[jtk1519]

There's no freedom of anything. Freedom is a marketing myth uses to dupe us into a false sense of security and superiority.

[BlackandRed05]

He's gay, we get it. Let's move on to more important things in sports. The Hardaway comments were classic though.

Being gay does not entitle you to sympathy or special treatment, we are all out there to make a living too.

Very well said.

[BlackandRed05]

But it makes blatant, ignorant hate speech acceptable?! Give me a http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/censored.gif break. Tim Hardaway is no different than a goose-stepping Nazi or a cross burning clansman and his comments should be treated with the same kind of disgust and outrage as a spray-painted swastika on the side of a synagogue.

In a world where a kid like Matthew Sheppard is now a statistic because of his sexual orientation and the bigoted monsters who could not look past that, I am at a loss for words as to why Hardaway's prejudice, hate-filled comments have been met with such flippant acceptance. When you have a high profile person get on the radio and tell the world that he hates gay people and then sees his comments met with any kind of acceptance, this is truly a dark day for America.

Why must we tolerate him, but my views cant be tolerated? Because I dont agree with homosexuality, why does that make me a nazi or a cross burner? this would be different if this was dealing with his ethnicity or any other factor beyond his control, but he made a CHOICE to be gay. And then he wanted to share this with world. It is a behavior issue, so do we accept other lewd behavior and lifestyles also? I think not.

[WestPlano006]

News Flash: Being gay is not the normal orientation for men

Does it honestly surprise you that most of the other 90% of men find it really weird and even disgusting?

We are letting a small group of people take control of how we should view orientation, and it is disturbing. The amount of media attention this gets is so pathetic, can't go anywhere without hearing about gay this, gay that. Hell, I had to write an English paper on gay marriage with a neutral point of view. I am shocked how people are buying into this crap. I realize they are people, I realize they might not be able to do anything about it. You know what? I have problems I can't do anything about either. Why should straight young adults have to be put through the stress of wondering if they are gay because the media tries to convince them they are?

I live in a frat house, and being around 60 other guys you get used to having a bare *** in your face when you wake up, or someones nuts hanging infront of you when you regain sense after sobering up. Are we gay? No. Do some of the guys question if they are gay because of what they hear on the news or read online? Most likely yes. I can't go anywhere without seeing someone and wondering if they are gay, because of what I hear in the news. I saw something on TV about this also a while back, so it's not just my story. A lot of people are homophobic, and they should be.

[jtk1519]

Why must we tolerate him, but my views cant be tolerated? Because I dont agree with homosexuality, why does that make me a nazi or a cross burner? this would be different if this was dealing with his ethnicity or any other factor beyond his control, but he made a CHOICE to be gay. And then he wanted to share this with world. It is a behavior issue, so do we accept other lewd behavior and lifestyles also? I think not.

Who said your views can't be tolerated? The argument is not about toleration or whether or not you agree with his choices. The argument is about hate. What kind of person would hate somebody because of a lifestyle choice? Seriously, just how immature and ignorant do you have to be to see somebody who chooses to live their life differently and then hate them for their choice? If I choose to pierce my nose and you don't agree with that, are you going to hate me too? That's the heart of the issue and the stupidity behind it.

[jtk1519]

We are letting a small group of people take control of how we should view orientation, and it is disturbing. The amount of media attention this gets is so pathetic, can't go anywhere without hearing about gay this, gay that.

Then maybe your hate should rest with the sensationalist media rather than that small segment of the population... a vast majority of whom just want to quietly live their God given lives in peace without fear of persecution.

News flash: Not all gay people are Rosie O'Donnell. Some are quietly teaching your kid's Sunday school class.

[WestPlano006]

Who said your views can't be tolerated? The argument is not about toleration or whether or not you agree with his choices. The argument is about hate. What kind of person would hate somebody because of a lifestyle choice? Seriously, just how immature and ignorant do you have to be to see somebody who chooses to live their life differently and then hate them for their choice? If I choose to pierce my nose and you don't agree with that, are you going to hate me too? That's the heart of the issue and the stupidity behind it.

I don't hate them.... I just don't want to be associated with them or hear about their problems every ****ing day of my life... it gets REALLY old.

[jtk1519]

I don't hate them.... I just don't want to be associated with them or hear about their problems every ****ing day of my life... it gets REALLY old.

Why don't you want to associate with them?

[WestPlano006]

Then maybe your hate should rest with the sensationalist media rather than that small segment of the population... a vast majority of whom just want to quietly live their God given lives in peace without fear of persecution.

News flash: Not all gay people are Rosie O'Donnell. Some are quietly teaching your kid's Sunday school class.

If someone is gay, I'd rather not hear about it. I had a friend for a few years who told said he was gay, and it really freaked me out. While a select few may tolerate it, I could not talk to him knowing that he was gay and he might look at me in a very different way.

[WestPlano006]

Why don't you want to associate with them?

I don't want to associate with them because of my views on life. I do not find it normal at all... nobody will ever make me change. The thought of a gay family with adopted kids is like a demented science project to me... how the hell would the kid feel knowing his family was different than everyone elses... who would want to be friends with that kid? We live in a prejudice world buddy, nothing will ever change that. People dislike other people, and it is natural to do so. People have been doing it since the beginning of our time.

[jtk1519]

If someone is gay, I'd rather not hear about it. I had a friend for a few years who told said he was gay, and it really freaked me out. While a select few may tolerate it, I could not talk to him knowing that he was gay and he might look at me in a very different way.

Are you serious? Afraid he might look at you "in a very different way"? Did I miss something? Is there a history in this country of gay men bending their friends over and ***-plowing them in front of God and everybody? That's the only reason I can think of for why somebody would look down on a former friend so much as to think them unworthy of conversation. That's sad.

[BlackandRed05]

Who said your views can't be tolerated? The argument is not about toleration or whether or not you agree with his choices. The argument is about hate. What kind of person would hate somebody because of a lifestyle choice? Seriously, just how immature and ignorant do you have to be to see somebody who chooses to live their life differently and then hate them for their choice? If I choose to pierce my nose and you don't agree with that, are you going to hate me too? That's the heart of the issue and the stupidity behind it.

Exactly, I hate the choice that he made, and the lifestyle he chose, NOT HIM. And I hate the fact that he went and put in a book for all the world to see, then when someone says anything against it, they are the ones that are wrong. Bull****, give me a break.

[jtk1519]

I don't want to associate with them because of my views on life. I do not find it normal at all... nobody will ever make me change. The thought of a gay family with adopted kids is like a demented science project to me... how the hell would the kid feel knowing his family was different than everyone elses... who would want to be friends with that kid? We live in a prejudice world buddy, nothing will ever change that. People dislike other people, and it is natural to do so. People have been doing it since the beginning of our time.

Nobody is talking about gay families or gay marriage here. I'm trying to figure out why you could not associate with another human being because of a lifestyle choice. What is it about homosexuals that scare you?

Everybody has different views on life and you can't swing a dead cat in your own household without finding somebody who does something that you don't find "normal". That doesn't mean you can't associate with them. God gave us the right to chose how we live our lives. Why can't people respect that God given right to chose?

[jtk1519]

Exactly, I hate the choice that he made, and the lifestyle he chose, NOT HIM. And I hate the fact that he went and put in a book for all the world to see, then when someone says anything against it, they are the ones that are wrong. Bull****, give me a break.

Hate the sin, not the sinner. I could not agree more, but to use that as your stance and then back up the comments of a man who said "I hate gay people" (the person, not the act) is a contradiction.

If you believe homosexuality is a sin, that is fine, but we all sin and no sin is greater than another. Tim Hardaway is every bit the sinner Amaechi is. How does the biblical reference go, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". When I see Tim Hardaway walk on water and raise the dead, maybe I'll let him slide. Until then, he has responded to sin with sin and is no better than any other sinner.

[BlackandRed05]

Hate the sin, not the sinner. I could not agree more, but to use that as your stance and then back up the comments of a man who said "I hate gay people" (the person, not the act) is a contradiction.

If you believe homosexuality is a sin, that is fine, but we all sin and no sin is greater than another. Tim Hardaway is every bit the sinner Amaechi is. How does the biblical reference go, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". When I see Tim Hardaway walk on water and raise the dead, maybe I'll let him slide. Until then, he has responded to sin with sin and is no better than any other sinner.

Then why dont you have the same outlook towards Tim Hardaway, the nazis or the cross burners that you do with the homosexual? Everyone should feel sorry for Amaechi, accept him and his lifestyle, but the others are hate mongers?

[BlackandRed05]

you see, jtk, you never once said that what Amaechi was doing was wrong. you began this heart wrenching, pity party excuse about how mean everyone is to homo's. If you had said that hey, what this guy is doing is wrong, i dont approve and wish he would change, then maybe this whole conversation could have been more civil.

[jtk1519]

you see, jtk, you never once said that what Amaechi was doing was wrong. you began this heart wrenching, pity party excuse about how mean everyone is to homo's. If you had said that hey, what this guy is doing is wrong, i dont approve and wish he would change, then maybe this whole conversation could have been more civil.

Because my personal feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Tim Hardaway said he hates gays and there are those of you that backed him in that statement. I am trying to figure out why. I'm trying to figure what part of homosexuality is so dangerous that it would justify hating a complete stranger. I am trying to figure out why it is okay for Hardaway to hate somebody, but it is not okay for somebody to love who they want. I'm trying to figure out why the defenders of "morality" are usually the first to abandon all morals when they feel threatened by that which they do not understand.

BTW, this has been civil. When I decide to put civility aside to make an argument, you will know it.

[jtk1519]

Then why dont you have the same outlook towards Tim Hardaway, the nazis or the cross burners that you do with the homosexual? Everyone should feel sorry for Amaechi, accept him and his lifestyle, but the others are hate mongers?

I didn't say you had to accept it. I asked why you can't respect the person's right to live their life when that person's life is not hurting anyone else.

BTW, if saying "I hate gay people", murdering Jews and murdering blacks just because they are different doesn't make you a "hate monger", then I really don't know what does.

[slorch]

There's no freedom of anything. Freedom is a marketing myth uses to dupe us into a false sense of security and superiority.

Thank you Mr Marx.

[jtk1519]

Thank you Mr Marx.

That was sarcasm. What followed is not.

[slorch]

Who said your views can't be tolerated? The argument is not about toleration or whether or not you agree with his choices. The argument is about hate. What kind of person would hate somebody because of a lifestyle choice? Seriously, just how immature and ignorant do you have to be to see somebody who chooses to live their life differently and then hate them for their choice? If I choose to pierce my nose and you don't agree with that, are you going to hate me too? That's the heart of the issue and the stupidity behind it.

I will agree that hardaway was wrong for saying he hates gays. I hate their actions. I hate their clamoring for special attention. I hate how I am supposed to somehow drop any moral standard I have, and submit to their views.
i work for one of the most PC companies in the world. I recognize that my views do not match up with the hypcritical religion of " diversity and inclusion." I also know I am a damned good employee. While I am supposed to embody the views of the company as a manager, I know that someday, I could lose everything I have worked for because these supposed "tolerant " and "enlightened" folks don't like MY views.
I just want it to not be a point of difference in veiwing people. This applies to race, ethnicity, gender, ect. As long as people keep trying to show how these characteristics, including homosexuality, make them different, there will be resentment and persecution. Constantly at work I am told how great it is to have people who want to show me how great they are because they belong to one of these groups. Just like someone should not be viewed as being less of a person by being gay, they are not to viewed as more important becuase of their being gay as well. This is the hypocricy of the PC movement.

You know what, I don't really give a [censored,] as long as they do their jobs and don't disrupt my team. FYI, I have gay people that work for me as well as "minorities" including the first Black gentleman that has EVER worked in my building. They do their jobs and I treat them just like the rest of the team, because that is what they are- my team. Just like in the bigger picture, these folks are Americans. Not Afro-Americans, not Gay- Americans, just citizens. I believe I do what the PC movement wishes they could do, without the politics involved. I look at the best candidate to be hired, and they know they were hired for that very reason, and no other. There is dignity in that process, as opposed to affirmative action, which cheapens their candidacy by favoring certain groups.

We are on the verge of a revolution in this country. Folks are sick and tired of being force fed this line of [censored] so that little insecure people can feel better about being idiots. Whatever you are, just be the best. People will figure out eventually if you're worth a [censored] in the business world, or otherwise. If you're gay, great. Just don't shake it in my face(no pun intended.) Don't tell me I have to accept you, or treat you differently; and I won't treat you like a lesser person.

[slorch]

Then maybe your hate should rest with the sensationalist media rather than that small segment of the population... a vast majority of whom just want to quietly live their God given lives in peace without fear of persecution.

News flash: Not all gay people are Rosie O'Donnell. Some are quietly teaching your kid's Sunday school class.

bhaaahaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!

maybe so, but they damn sure don't make it known. So they are bad gays, because they don't make a statement with their gayness...:rolleyes:

[jtk1519]

Wonderfully said and I could not agree more.

I don't want anybody to pander to homosexuals or their "movement" any more than they pander to any other person. I do not believe in gay rights. I believe in human rights and I believe those rights apply to everybody, everywhere, regardless of their personal beliefs and where those rights are violated, I hope to see societal outrage whether the person being violated is black or a homosexual. As far as I'm concerned, Tim Haradaway saying "I hate gays" is no different than Larry Bird saying "I hate Hispanics". You don't have to like a person or what they do to respect them as children of God human beings and you do not respect someone as a person by saying you hate them or condoning the rhetoric of those that do.

[slorch]

Are you serious? Afraid he might look at you "in a very different way"? Did I miss something? Is there a history in this country of gay men bending their friends over and ***-plowing them in front of God and everybody? That's the only reason I can think of for why somebody would look down on a former friend so much as to think them unworthy of conversation. That's sad.

I have a question for you, strictly for discussion. When we go on the road at work, we never room with a coworker of the opposite sex.
1)why?

2)What if I am asked to room with a gay person, is that any different?

[jtk1519]

bhaaahaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!

maybe so, but they damn sure don't make it known. So they are bad gays, because they don't make a statement with their gayness...:rolleyes:

Those that live their lives in peaceful silence are the one's society should applaud. They should not have to live in shame or fear, but by the same token they should not impose their beliefs upon others. I believe a majority of homosexuals feel that way. I believe most are perfectly content living their lives with their private lives kept... private. The sad reality is that the well-meaning often have their causes trampled by the vocal minority who choose to push their agendas in the face of society, thereby breeding an unnecessary hate and making a joke of the segment of the population that they think they are helping.

Of course, that is true of everybody no matter little piece of the pie you pit into. As a conservative, I am a creep by association because of the actions of a guy like Ted Haggard. That's not fair to me, but it's not fair to homosexuals who have to see their slice of the pie represented by Rosie O'Donnell. Just as I hope people wont judge me as a conservative because of the actions of a guy like Ted Haggard, I wont judge others by the rambling lunatic they are unfortunate enough to have representing their cause.

[slorch]

Hate the sin, not the sinner. I could not agree more, but to use that as your stance and then back up the comments of a man who said "I hate gay people" (the person, not the act) is a contradiction.

If you believe homosexuality is a sin, that is fine, but we all sin and no sin is greater than another. Tim Hardaway is every bit the sinner Amaechi is. How does the biblical reference go, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". When I see Tim Hardaway walk on water and raise the dead, maybe I'll let him slide. Until then, he has responded to sin with sin and is no better than any other sinner.


read bible further, to learn about something else called righteous indignation. people always want to pick and choose their scriptures out of context in orderr to build their story against Christians. The " Don't judge, lest ye be judged" is also an alltime favorite.

I agree that all sin is an abomination unto the Lord. God's grace is unending and does forgive homosexuality as well as other non-married sex. By the same token it is wrong to continually disobey the teachings of Christ and the Word of God. To call it out when a fellow man is sinning is not wrong. To hate the man is.

If you recall, the whole "casting the first stone" was a death sentence. Christ was making a point about the severity of the punishment and the value of forgiveness. He also repeatedly emphasized that God hates the ways of the wicked, and we are to witness to them and be an example of a righteous life. This is conveniently left out more often than not.

Silence is acceptance. I do not find the "choice" to be acceptable in the eyes of the Lord. Just as I would be crushed and severely angry if one of my kids ever raped or murdered someone, I would be equally unaccepting of this other sin, known as homosexuality, in my kids' lives.

To say it is wrong is not a crime against mankind. To hate the person is a sin of your own doing. To say nothing is accepting the action.

[jtk1519]

I have a question for you, strictly for discussion. When we go on the road at work, we never room with a coworker of the opposite sex.
1)why?

2)What if I am asked to room with a gay person, is that any different?

That's a very good question and honestly, a very difficult one for me to answer. You've backed me into the proverbial corner, but I will respond the best way I know how. If you or the person you are rooming with are not capable of controlling your sexual emotions to the point where staying in the same hotel room is not possible, then no... it is no different. However, if you are capable of such control, then I don't see a problem with putting a straight man and a gay man in the same room, but I also don't see a problem with having a single man and a single woman in the same room.

[jtk1519]

To say it is wrong is not a crime against mankind. To hate the person is a sin of your own doing. To say nothing is accepting the action.

I think that echoes my sentiments exactly.

[slorch]

That's a very good question and honestly, a very difficult one for me to answer. You've backed me into the proverbial corner, but I will respond the best way I know how. If you or the person you are rooming with are not capable of controlling your sexual emotions to the point where staying in the same hotel room is not possible, then no... it is no different. However, if you are capable of such control, then I don't see a problem with putting a straight man and a gay man in the same room, but I also don't see a problem with having a single man and a single woman in the same room.

yes, but you know my old lady, regardless of my "self-control," or not, would stomp a mudhole in my backside for even contemplating said maneuver( rooming with a female on the road, at work)

Slorch, well he wouldn't be too keen on the guy scenario either, self control or not( the other guy's)

I am asking, at the JTK Corporation, what would your official view be?

[jtk1519]

yes, but you know my old lady, regardless of my "self-control," or not, would stomp a mudhole in my backside for even contemplating said maneuver( rooming with a female on the road, at work)

Slorch, well he wouldn't be too keen on the guy scenario either, self control or not( the other guy's)

I am asking, at the JTK Corporation, what would your official view be?

Well, married people are a different story and I meant to include that but I forgot.

As for jtk Inc., my employees would room alone to avoid the matter all together, but I suppose you will see that answer as my way of ducking the issue. So, to give you the answer you want, if an Employee A told me that he had a problem rooming with Employee B because Employee B is a gay man, I would first enquire as to if any unwanted sexual advances had ever been made in the past. If the answer were yes, I would accommodate Employee A's request. However, if there was such history between the two, I would tell Employee A to deal with it or pay for his own room. If the homosexual in question is doing nothing to impose his beliefs or lifestyle on others, I see no reason to make special accommodations based on homosexuality.

By the same token, if a gay man had a problem rooming with a straight man, my answer would be the same... deal with it or pay for your own room. You are a person, a man and an employee. You are not special and will not be treated as such.

[slorch]

Well, married people are a different story and I meant to include that but I forgot.

As for jtk Inc., my employees would room alone to avoid the matter all together, but I suppose you will see that answer as my way of ducking the issue. So, to give you the answer you want, if an Employee A told me that he had a problem rooming with Employee B because Employee B is a gay man, I would first enquire as to if any unwanted sexual advances had ever been made in the past. If the answer were yes, I would accommodate Employee A's request. However, if there was such history between the two, I would tell Employee A to deal with it or pay for his own room. If the homosexual in question is doing nothing to impose his beliefs or lifestyle on others, I see no reason to make special accommodations based on homosexuality.

By the same token, if a gay man had a problem rooming with a straight man, my answer would be the same... deal with it or pay for your own room. You are a person, a man and an employee. You are not special and will not be treated as such.

I hear you, and at first glance, would agree.
Would it not be irresponsible to me in waiting until advances had already been made, for the corporation to pay for my seperate room? we do other things to accomodate people's needs( first floor rooms for the disabled,) why would you as my employer force me to pay for my own room, but not the gay person?

I know these are tough questions, but it does come up, and honestly none of us have come up with a solution that you could make precedance with. We have these great dialogues about social issues in theoretical terms, and then when it comes to applying them to reality, it's like nailing jell-o to the wall.

Do I go to my employer and say I can't room with the person because I'm Bi, and my wife doesn't trust me? They would never force me to room with a woman, or pay for my own room...

Like I said, applying this stuff to real life, where the legal world has a hayday, is pretty challenging.

[ktCarl]

There's no freedom of anything. Freedom is a marketing myth uses to dupe us into a false sense of security and superiority.

And the furor over Hardaway's comments prove there is no freedom of speech. You can be an NBA player and beat women, r**e women, get busted for drugs and commit other crimes and you'll be back on court playing but make a non-political correct rant about homosexuality and the thought police are gathered at your door like the townspeople gathered at the castle Frankenstein. The hate he displayed in what he said was bad and over the top but he is entitled to make an arse out of himself. He could have been more diplomatic or eloquent in how he described his displeasure but I guess he just wasn't smart enough.

[jtk1519]

And the furor over Hardaway's comments prove there is no freedom of speech. You can be an NBA player and beat women, r**e women, get busted for drugs and commit other crimes and you'll be back on court playing but make a non-political correct rant about homosexuality and the thought police are gathered at your door like the townspeople gathered at the castle Frankenstein. The hate he displayed in what he said was bad and over the top but he is entitled to make an arse out of himself. He could have been more diplomatic or eloquent in how he described his displeasure but I guess he just wasn't smart enough.

Make no mistake about it... if Hardaway were still playing and made such comments, his punishment from the NBA would be little more than stiff fine and he would be back on the court the very next day. The NBA can afford to cut ties with him now because he is no longer their product... he is no longer making money for them. If he were, the NBA's reaction would be much, much different.

[slorch]

Make no mistake about it... if Hardaway were still playing and made such comments, his punishment from the NBA would be little more than stiff fine and he would be back on the court the very next day. The NBA can afford to cut ties with him now because he is no longer their product... he is no longer making money for them. If he were, the NBA's reaction would be much, much different.

yeah, I've never heard of them invoking a "Conduct unbecoming of an NBA Player" clause.
Money talks, and Hardaway isn't a part of the show anymore, so,

" Hit the road, Jack- and don't come back no mo..."

[jtk1519]

I hear you, and at first glance, would agree.
Would it not be irresponsible to me in waiting until advances had already been made, for the corporation to pay for my seperate room? we do other things to accomodate people's needs( first floor rooms for the disabled,) why would you as my employer force me to pay for my own room, but not the gay person?

Because the gay person did not request the special accommodation. Like I said, if the gay person made the request, I would tell him to deal with it or pay for his own room. As for those with disabilities... it has already been said in this thread that homosexuality is a choice... being handicapped is not. The Americans with Disabilities Act does not apply in the event of homosexuality, therefore a company should not be forced to comply with excessive special requests based on sexual orientation.

And it would be irresponsible of you to assume that inappropriate sexual advances are in your future just because someone is gay. If you want to take that approach, every straight woman and every gay man would inevitably make sexual advances towards you and I don't know anybody that would consider that sane logic.

[dada]

I didnt read all the posts so someone may have touched on this already. If you're gay....that's you...it's all fine and dandy as long as YOU are happy, whatever floats your boat. BUT you can't expect everyone to accept it. Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world. That's like me coming out on this board saying "You know guys.....I know we are talking football here....but....at night I have pet monkeys that I have sex with"....WHO CARES?? Now add this..everyone who replies and say's "Dada you're nasty or that's gross" Kt bans them. You're not allowed to voice an opinion about me...I'm special. I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that. I want everyone to accept that fact that I'm a monkey lover...I want to be able to take you to court if you don't hire me because I thought it would be cool if I shared with you my sweet monkey love and you thought it wasnt right. If I KNOW 95% of the population dosent agree with it...WHY would I want to share it?....Money and attention. If Amaechi worked at Hot Topics in the mall....NOBODY would care....but...he KNOWS he's in a fraternity where being gay is normally looked down upon(NBA)..." I know you guys dont like gay...GUESS WHAT...I'm gay!!!" ACCEPT ME.

[slorch]

Because the gay person did not request the special accommodation. Like I said, if the gay person made the request, I would tell him to deal with it or pay for his own room. As for those with disabilities... it has already been said in this thread that homosexuality is a choice... being handicapped is not. The Americans with Disabilities Act does not apply in the event of homosexuality, therefore a company should not be forced to comply with excessive special requests based on sexual orientation.

And it would be irresponsible of you to assume that inappropriate sexual advances are in your future just because someone is gay. If you want to take that approach, every straight woman and every gay man would inevitably make sexual advances towards you and I don't know anybody that would consider that sane logic.


i did not mean to say homsexuality was the same situation as having a disability and apologize for even miscommunicating what I was trying to say. I was just trying to illustrate the way companies make accomodations for other situations. I dropped the ball on that one, and agree 100% in the difference between the 2 situations.

I guess the root question is, " Why do we use gender to differentiate between roommates on travel arrangements, but not sexual orientation?" Is one more relevant than the other?

[RedRage00]

He's gay, we get it. Let's move on to more important things in sports. The Hardaway comments were classic though.

Being gay does not entitle you to sympathy or special treatment, we are all out there to make a living too.


I can't believe Hardaway...A BLACK PERSON...could spew so much hate. Black people should be the first people to know what discrimination or hate feels like. What a hipocrite!

[RedRage00]

But it makes blatant, ignorant hate speech acceptable?! Give me a http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/censored.gif break. Tim Hardaway is no different than a goose-stepping Nazi or a cross burning clansman and his comments should be treated with the same kind of disgust and outrage as a spray-painted swastika on the side of a synagogue.

In a world where a kid like Matthew Sheppard is now a statistic because of his sexual orientation and the bigoted monsters who could not look past that, I am at a loss for words as to why Hardaway's prejudice, hate-filled comments have been met with such flippant acceptance. When you have a high profile person get on the radio and tell the world that he hates gay people and then sees his comments met with any kind of acceptance, this is truly a dark day for America.

Bravo!

[twcpfan1]

I didnt read all the posts so someone may have touched on this already. If you're gay....that's you...it's all fine and dandy as long as YOU are happy, whatever floats your boat. BUT you can't expect everyone to accept it. Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world. That's like me coming out on this board saying "You know guys.....I know we are talking football here....but....at night I have pet monkeys that I have sex with"....WHO CARES?? Now add this..everyone who replies and say's "Dada you're nasty or that's gross" Kt bans them. You're not allowed to voice an opinion about me...I'm special. I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that. I want everyone to accept that fact that I'm a monkey lover...I want to be able to take you to court if you don't hire me because I thought it would be cool if I shared with you my sweet monkey love and you thought it wasnt right. If I KNOW 95% of the population dosent agree with it...WHY would I want to share it?....Money and attention. If Amaechi worked at Hot Topics in the mall....NOBODY would care....but...he KNOWS he's in a fraternity where being gay is normally looked down upon(NBA)..." I know you guys dont like gay...GUESS WHAT...I'm gay!!!" ACCEPT ME.

Are we talking Orangutans, Chimps or Gorillas? Cause Orangutans and Chimps are not acceptable. Gorillas, on the other hand, we can all live with that.

JUST KIDDING. That was a funny post, man.

[dada]

Are we talking Orangutans, Chimps or Gorillas? Cause Orangutans and Chimps are not acceptable. Gorillas, on the other hand, we can all live with that.

JUST KIDDING. That was a funny post, man.

Spider Monkeys!

[RedRage00]

this would be different if this was dealing with his ethnicity or any other factor beyond his control, but he made a CHOICE to be gay.


Some of you people are just so ignorant!

I chose to be gay the same day you chose to be straight.

[dada]

Some of you people are just so ignorant!

I chose to be gay the same day you chose to be straight.

I have LOTS of respect for you....it's the "I'm Gay..I want to share it with the world, write a book and get paid"

[slorch]

I didnt read all the posts so someone may have touched on this already. If you're gay....that's you...it's all fine and dandy as long as YOU are happy, whatever floats your boat. BUT you can't expect everyone to accept it. Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world. That's like me coming out on this board saying "You know guys.....I know we are talking football here....but....at night I have pet monkeys that I have sex with"....WHO CARES?? Now add this..everyone who replies and say's "Dada you're nasty or that's gross" Kt bans them. You're not allowed to voice an opinion about me...I'm special. I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that. I want everyone to accept that fact that I'm a monkey lover...I want to be able to take you to court if you don't hire me because I thought it would be cool if I shared with you my sweet monkey love and you thought it wasnt right. If I KNOW 95% of the population dosent agree with it...WHY would I want to share it?....Money and attention. If Amaechi worked at Hot Topics in the mall....NOBODY would care....but...he KNOWS he's in a fraternity where being gay is normally looked down upon(NBA)..." I know you guys dont like gay...GUESS WHAT...I'm gay!!!" ACCEPT ME.

DADA = Jacko= monkey lover:D

just kidding, man. I agree with your point. forced acceptance causes resentment.

[dada]

DADA = Jacko= monkey lover:D

just kidding, man. I agree with your point. forced acceptance causes resentment.

Exactly.....Hardaway was wrong for what he said, but that's the way he feels and we can't force him to accept that.

[wide-e-wide]

I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that

that's what she said...

[jtk1519]

that's what she said...

That's soooo yesterday.

[dada]

That's soooo yesterday.

that's what she said

[RedRage00]

Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world.

Dada,

I get what you're saying, but as a young gay man its not that easy. I don't run around telling everyone my sexual orientation. I don't run around like a big nelly richard simmons. Most people don't even know I am gay...BUT, you can't hide it that easy. You meet new people/new friends and the closer these people get to you eventually you'll have to tell them. It's not like I'm running around telling the world. I had women at work trying to set me up with their daughters :rolleyes: Eventually, it came out at my job without me having to even say anything. You can't hide it as easy as you think. When your coworkers ask you what you did this weekend (and you went out drinking at one of the gay bars with your friends) there is only so much lying that can take place before you get found out LOL...trust me I know..lol

Plus, why should I have to lie just to please others? If you ask me what I did this weekend and it involves a gay bar with friends or something that would "out" me then you better be ready for the answer. And don't try to say I'm telling the world or rubbing it in your face cause you asked.

I am not suprised by all the hate on this thread....afterall, we are in Texas!

And from my personal experience....the guys who spew the most hate on gays are usually the ones that are CLOSETED and having their own issues. I have a lot of straight male friends and none of them are insecure with themselves to not want to be my friend. They know they are straight and they know that I'm not out to get their @$$!

That's all

[t-long20]

I didnt read all the posts so someone may have touched on this already. If you're gay....that's you...it's all fine and dandy as long as YOU are happy, whatever floats your boat. BUT you can't expect everyone to accept it. Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world. That's like me coming out on this board saying "You know guys.....I know we are talking football here....but....at night I have pet monkeys that I have sex with"....WHO CARES?? Now add this..everyone who replies and say's "Dada you're nasty or that's gross" Kt bans them. You're not allowed to voice an opinion about me...I'm special. I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that. I want everyone to accept that fact that I'm a monkey lover...I want to be able to take you to court if you don't hire me because I thought it would be cool if I shared with you my sweet monkey love and you thought it wasnt right. If I KNOW 95% of the population dosent agree with it...WHY would I want to share it?....Money and attention. If Amaechi worked at Hot Topics in the mall....NOBODY would care....but...he KNOWS he's in a fraternity where being gay is normally looked down upon(NBA)..." I know you guys dont like gay...GUESS WHAT...I'm gay!!!" ACCEPT ME.

imo if amaechi has the freedom to announce to the world hes gay and put it in the book then tim hardaway has the right to say he hates gays to me it doesnt matter cause theres plenty of homophobics and gays out there its just not gonna change

[dada]

Dada,

I get what you're saying, but as a young gay man its not that easy. I don't run around telling everyone my sexual orientation. I don't run around like a big nelly richard simmons. Most people don't even know I am gay...BUT, you can't hide it that easy. You meet new people/new friends and the closer these people get to you eventually you'll have to tell them. It's not like I'm running around telling the world. I had women at work trying to set me up with their daughters :rolleyes: Eventually, it came out at my job without me having to even say anything. You can't hide it as easy as you think. When your coworkers ask you what you did this weekend (and you went out drinking at one of the gay bars with your friends) there is only so much lying that can take place before you get found out LOL...trust me I know..lol

Plus, why should I have to lie just to please others? If you ask me what I did this weekend and it involves a gay bar with friends or something that would "out" me then you better be ready for the answer. And don't try to say I'm telling the world or rubbing it in your face cause you asked.

I am not suprised by all the hate on this thread....afterall, we are in Texas!

And from my personal experience....the guys who spew the most hate on gays are usually the ones that are CLOSETED and having their own issues. I have a lot of straight male friends and none of them are insecure with themselves to not want to be my friend. They know they are straight and they know that I'm not out to get their @$$!

That's all

You shouldn't have to lie about it. I respect KNOWING more than the ones who try to hide it. I also think the ones who show so much hate towards it are hiding something..the one that go out of there way to PROVE they are manly..it's like they are trying to prove something to themselves...Like I said...me PERSONALY...I'm not gay...not homophobic...to each his own...I was in the Army with a gay guy and everyone wanted to jump him...this and that...and I'm like..WHY? What if your life was on the line and he was in the foxhole with you...did it matter if he was gay. As long as it's not affecting ME...I Don't care. Don't expect a "Gay Rights" movement. I can't come to work and talk about me and my wifes sex life....that's too much information so why do MOST gays feel like they have to FORCE theirs on everyone else? Like I say...I respect the gay guy...I hate the "Not Sure" Guy...I have a friend.....we think he's gay...and man law say's if you sexuality has to be questioned...you're gay. We try to get him to admit it but he want...he has like 9 kids and is in his early 30's(making babies PROVES that you are a man)...but every time he see's a gay guy he goes ballistic...talks about how he looks....dresses...his shoes...I'm like DUDE it aint that serious...Then we were in the gym working out and he made the comment "If I had your body I would never work out"..I'm like Dude..is that a compliment? Just say you're gay and get it over with..we'll still be boys and I would know what kind of ground we're standing on.

[RedRage00]

I live in a frat house, and being around 60 other guys you get used to having a bare *** in your face when you wake up, or someones nuts hanging infront of you when you regain sense after sobering up. Are we gay? No. Do some of the guys question if they are gay because of what they hear on the news or read online? Most likely yes. I can't go anywhere without seeing someone and wondering if they are gay, because of what I hear in the news. I saw something on TV about this also a while back, so it's not just my story. A lot of people are homophobic, and they should be.

Dude, you make no sense. I have a lot of straight friends and none of them question their sexual orientation because of what they see on the news or read online. If the media is causing your frat brothers to question their orientation then they have MAJOR problems!!! My co-worker is straight and I don't see him questioning his sexual orientation b/c this guy came out of the closet LOL. He has read the stories, etc. Wait, let me ask him? Yep, he is still engaged to his girl! :eek:

Plus, you better be prepared b/c I know that some of your frat brothers are gay and closeted. I know being in a frat is like "brotherhood" and you make life long bonds...but are you going to care less about some of them if you find out later that they are gay???? Believe me, I have met plenty of "former" frat guys who have come out later in life...same goes for the military....SA is a military town and you wouldnt believe the number of closeted military men living on base here....if the world was more accepting, then they wouldnt have to live a lie.

Oh, and someone said something about gays wanting special rights??? Its not about special rights...its about equal rights. I don't see anything that homosexuals are asking for that heterosexuals don't already have.

[dada]

News Flash: Being gay is not the normal orientation for men

Does it honestly surprise you that most of the other 90% of men find it really weird and even disgusting?

We are letting a small group of people take control of how we should view orientation, and it is disturbing. The amount of media attention this gets is so pathetic, can't go anywhere without hearing about gay this, gay that. Hell, I had to write an English paper on gay marriage with a neutral point of view. I am shocked how people are buying into this crap. I realize they are people, I realize they might not be able to do anything about it. You know what? I have problems I can't do anything about either. Why should straight young adults have to be put through the stress of wondering if they are gay because the media tries to convince them they are?

I live in a frat house, and being around 60 other guys you get used to having a bare *** in your face when you wake up, or someones nuts hanging infront of you when you regain sense after sobering up. Are we gay? No. Do some of the guys question if they are gay because of what they hear on the news or read online? Most likely yes. I can't go anywhere without seeing someone and wondering if they are gay, because of what I hear in the news. I saw something on TV about this also a while back, so it's not just my story. A lot of people are homophobic, and they should be.

New Man Law: Never admit to being a victim of "Tea Bagging" especialy SOONER Tea Bagging, because there is a possiblity that it was done by a family member.

[RedRage00]

I also think the ones who show so much hate towards it are hiding something..the one that go out of there way to PROVE they are manly..it's like they are trying to prove something to themselves...


That is the BEST statement and its so true!!!

[RedRage00]

New Man Law: Never admit to being a victim of "Tea Bagging" especialy SOONER Tea Bagging

LMFAO!

[dada]

That is the BEST statement and its so true!!!

That's what I beleive...I KNOW I'm not gay....so....it's not my business....dosent bother me...as long as a dude isnt hitting on me.*COUGH KT2000*...lol

[RedRage00]

Don't expect a "Gay Rights" movement. I can't come to work and talk about me and my wifes sex life....that's too much information so why do MOST gays feel like they have to FORCE theirs on everyone else?.


I don't think anyone gay or straight should talk about their sex life openly with people they hardly know.

I just know that none of my gay friends would speak about their sex life openly to people. Thats just not my style and its not the style of the people I hang out with.

Just like there are trashy gay people that talk about sex openly, there are also trashy heterosexual people that talk about their sex life openly...it goes both ways...

I just don't associate myself with trashy people...gay or straight.

[RedRage00]

That's what I beleive...I KNOW I'm not gay....so....it's not my business....dosent bother me...as long as a dude isnt hitting on me.*COUGH KT2000*...lol

Yeah, one of my straight ex-co workers and I are still friends and he has no issues b/c he knows he straight. He knows Im not out to get him. We'll go catch a Spurs game or have a beer and there are no issues between us. He's not insecure like some people who are blaming the media on them questioning their sexual orientation LOL :eek: *cough* Westplano006 *cough* lol

[wide-e-wide]

New Man Law: Never admit to being a victim of "Tea Bagging" especialy SOONER Tea Bagging, because there is a possiblity that it was done by a family member.

The don't call it teabagging in Oklahoma. It's called UncleDaddy's been drinkin' again.

[RedRage00]

The don't call it teabagging in Oklahoma. It's called UncleDaddy's been drinkin' again.

LMAO!

[pack0808]

Dada,

I get what you're saying, but as a young gay man its not that easy. I don't run around telling everyone my sexual orientation. I don't run around like a big nelly richard simmons. Most people don't even know I am gay...BUT, you can't hide it that easy. You meet new people/new friends and the closer these people get to you eventually you'll have to tell them. It's not like I'm running around telling the world. I had women at work trying to set me up with their daughters :rolleyes: Eventually, it came out at my job without me having to even say anything. You can't hide it as easy as you think. When your coworkers ask you what you did this weekend (and you went out drinking at one of the gay bars with your friends) there is only so much lying that can take place before you get found out LOL...trust me I know..lol

Plus, why should I have to lie just to please others? If you ask me what I did this weekend and it involves a gay bar with friends or something that would "out" me then you better be ready for the answer. And don't try to say I'm telling the world or rubbing it in your face cause you asked.

I am not suprised by all the hate on this thread....afterall, we are in Texas!

And from my personal experience....the guys who spew the most hate on gays are usually the ones that are CLOSETED and having their own issues. I have a lot of straight male friends and none of them are insecure with themselves to not want to be my friend. They know they are straight and they know that I'm not out to get their @$$!

That's all



Hey so you're gay fine I do not hate you but I sure do not have to like the lifestyle or agree with it. That does not make me Hitler. Hardaway went too far with his comments but that is his right to say what he wants. You can't say those things in this very wussified pc world we live in these days. Especially against gays. If you do you will be accused of being a closet homo yourself which is one of the dumbest statements one can make IMO. So if I say I hate spinach does that mean I really love spinach down deep and I am in the closet about it? I just find that funny when people use that rationale to justify their behavior and make them feel better. If he would have said he hated christians I seriously doubt a big deal would be made of this. Double standard! People can make fun of and speak out against christians and whites all they want but if you dare make fun or speak out against a gay person then you are a bigot and a hate mongerer.


I do not hate gays personally at all. Do I agree with their lifestyle no, but I am not going to hate somebody because of it. I am a sinner also (like everybody else) but in different ways. Not to mention it is usually appealing to many heterosexual men when 2 beautiful women are together. So many of us are hypocrites in that aspect but it still does not make it right. But I do think there is a difference in sinning and making an effort to repent instead of completely living in a sin and ignoring it. Just my 2 cents. Hardaway should have known you cannot talk like that in this day and age and there would be major repercussions. He should have just stated he disagreed with their lifestyle and realized that hate usually implies ignorance. Christians are supposed to hate sin not people.

[Gangsta3]

I can't believe Hardaway...A BLACK PERSON...could spew so much hate. Black people should be the first people to know what discrimination or hate feels like. What a hipocrite!

True, that was my problem with what the player in question said. He compared it to blacks and all other races who have been discriminated against. Here is the problem, BEING BLACK ISN'T A SIN, OR WEIRD FOR THAT MATTER. Being gay is both! He can compare it to whatever he wants. If that makes it easier for him to feel normal for being persicuted.

[ktCarl]

I didnt read all the posts so someone may have touched on this already. If you're gay....that's you...it's all fine and dandy as long as YOU are happy, whatever floats your boat. BUT you can't expect everyone to accept it. Me personally, it dosen't bother me, but I just don't see why everyone feels like they have to tell the world. That's like me coming out on this board saying "You know guys.....I know we are talking football here....but....at night I have pet monkeys that I have sex with"....WHO CARES?? Now add this..everyone who replies and say's "Dada you're nasty or that's gross" Kt bans them. You're not allowed to voice an opinion about me...I'm special. I choose to sleep with Monkeys and YOU have to accept that. I want everyone to accept that fact that I'm a monkey lover...I want to be able to take you to court if you don't hire me because I thought it would be cool if I shared with you my sweet monkey love and you thought it wasnt right. If I KNOW 95% of the population dosent agree with it...WHY would I want to share it?....Money and attention. If Amaechi worked at Hot Topics in the mall....NOBODY would care....but...he KNOWS he's in a fraternity where being gay is normally looked down upon(NBA)..." I know you guys dont like gay...GUESS WHAT...I'm gay!!!" ACCEPT ME.

How many monkeys do you own?

[jtk1519]

It's all fun and games with the monkey until that one morning he wakes up and thinks your crank is a banana and starts trying to peel it. :mad:

[greatestdane]

True, that was my problem with what the player in question said. He compared it to blacks and all other races who have been discriminated against. Here is the problem, BEING BLACK ISN'T A SIN, OR WEIRD FOR THAT MATTER. Being gay is both! He can compare it to whatever he wants. If that makes it easier for him to feel normal for being persicuted.

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that stupid comment. You can't compare the two! However, I guess in his mind being gay is as natural as being black. However, since he can't make a baby with another man, I don't see how.

[dada]

How many monkeys do you own?

The SPCA stepped in...lol

[wide-e-wide]

It's all fun and games with the monkey until that one morning he wakes up and thinks your crank is a banana and starts trying to peel it. :mad:

I told him painting his ***** yellow was a bad idea.

[RedRage00]

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that stupid comment. You can't compare the two! However, I guess in his mind being gay is as natural as being black. However, since he can't make a baby with another man, I don't see how.

This is not even worth arguing with some of you ignorant fools. It's not natural to you, but its natural to God b/c this is the way he made me whether you like it or not.

[dada]

I told him painting his ***** yellow was a bad idea.

LMAO....gives a new meaning to "Spanking the Monkey"

[wide-e-wide]

This is not even worth arguing with some of you ignorant fools. It's not natural to you, but its natural to God b/c this is the way he made me whether you like it or not.

Works for me...
After all you have to stand before God just like the rest of us. If you feel confident that God's okay with it...then go for it.
I have to say though...if it were me I'd be scared [censored]-less come judgement day....with the whole bible thing and all.

[jtk1519]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2756/kyus0.jpg

[RedRage00]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2756/kyus0.jpg

LMAO!

[RedRage00]

Works for me...
After all you have to stand before God just like the rest of us. If you feel confident that God's okay with it...then go for it.
I have to say though...if it were me I'd be scared [censored]-less come judgement day....with the whole bible thing and all.

LOL! We've had this argument in another thread already. The bible was put together 300+ year after Christs death and was EDITED to fit the agenda of the early church. So, don't take everything literally thats in there. I know I don't have anything to worry about come judgement day ;)

[jtk1519]

This is not even worth arguing with some of you ignorant fools. It's not natural to you, but its natural to God b/c this is the way he made me whether you like it or not.

There are only two opinions that matter... yours and God's. Since I'm pretty sure God doesn't post here, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to change any minds. I don't think God is putting a line through your name because you are gay any more than he is putting a line through mine for cheating on a poker game the other night. As somebody who has in fact struggled with matters of homosexuality in the past, I admire your honesty and willingness to communicate on what is a difficult subject.

[RedRage00]

There are only two opinions that matter... yours and God's. Since I'm pretty sure God doesn't post here, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to change any minds. I don't think God is putting a line through your name because you are gay any more than he is putting a line through mine for cheating on a poker game the other night. As somebody who has in fact struggled with matters of homosexuality in the past, I admire your honesty and willingness to communicate on what is a difficult subject.


Thank you! Yeah, its always a difficult subject.

[wide-e-wide]

There are only two opinions that matter... yours and God's. Since I'm pretty sure God doesn't post here, I wouldn't worry too much.

He's too busy coaching the UNT Mean Green Machine to post on a silly message board.

[dada]

Works for me...
After all you have to stand before God just like the rest of us. If you feel confident that God's okay with it...then go for it.
I have to say though...if it were me I'd be scared [censored]-less come judgement day....with the whole bible thing and all.

He has to stand before Coach Dodge? Uh-oh

[RedRage00]

He has to stand before Coach Dodge? Uh-oh

LOL!

[slorch]

I can't believe Hardaway...A BLACK PERSON...could spew so much hate. Black people should be the first people to know what discrimination or hate feels like. What a hipocrite!

yeah he's more qualified because of his skin. That makes sense.

You are either masterfully sarcstic or terribly ignorant.

[slorch]

Dada,

I get what you're saying, but as a young gay man its not that easy. I don't run around telling everyone my sexual orientation. I don't run around like a big nelly richard simmons. Most people don't even know I am gay...BUT, you can't hide it that easy. You meet new people/new friends and the closer these people get to you eventually you'll have to tell them. It's not like I'm running around telling the world. I had women at work trying to set me up with their daughters :rolleyes: Eventually, it came out at my job without me having to even say anything. You can't hide it as easy as you think. When your coworkers ask you what you did this weekend (and you went out drinking at one of the gay bars with your friends) there is only so much lying that can take place before you get found out LOL...trust me I know..lol

Plus, why should I have to lie just to please others? If you ask me what I did this weekend and it involves a gay bar with friends or something that would "out" me then you better be ready for the answer. And don't try to say I'm telling the world or rubbing it in your face cause you asked.

I am not suprised by all the hate on this thread....afterall, we are in Texas!

And from my personal experience....the guys who spew the most hate on gays are usually the ones that are CLOSETED and having their own issues. I have a lot of straight male friends and none of them are insecure with themselves to not want to be my friend. They know they are straight and they know that I'm not out to get their @$$!

That's all

why can't you just say you went to a bar with friends. my employees talk about their personal lives and it inevitably comes up, but nobody holds it against them. They also don't expect everyone to pay special attention to just their issues either, they are all part of the same workgroup.

i think for most people that is the point of contention- don't ask me to treat you differently and then in the same conversation, clamor for equality.

[wide-e-wide]

it inevitably comes up, but nobody holds it against them

That would be terribly innappropriate if they did.

[slorch]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2756/kyus0.jpg

straight to the classics.

best one in a while!

[wide-e-wide]

I posted a pic of "aggysil" and got banned....and jtk's "monkey lube" goes in the classics?
This is an outrage people.

[jtk1519]

I posted a pic of "aggysil" and got banned....and jtk's "monkey lube" goes in the classics?
This is an outrage people.

You're just obsessed with aggy.

[wide-e-wide]

You're just obsessed with aggy.

If your last name wasn't Switzer you would be too.

[pack0808]

LOL! We've had this argument in another thread already. The bible was put together 300+ year after Christs death and was EDITED to fit the agenda of the early church. So, don't take everything literally thats in there. I know I don't have anything to worry about come judgement day ;)

:rolleyes: I believe the Bible is the word of God not some edited made up garbage to fit an agenda. I think that excuse is just a cop out to those who do not like what some of scriptures say. That way they can only follow what fits their lifestyle and have an excuse for not following the parts that do not.

[RedRage00]

:rolleyes:

right back at cha! :rolleyes:

lol

[slorch]

Thank you! Yeah, its always a difficult subject.

don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be a smart a-- on this, but why is it difficult? If that's the way you are, then why would you have shame or doubt or any other various emotions about it? Why is it such a big deal to tell everyone your sexual orientation if it is the way you are?

(this also drives me nuts about the whole discussion on this topic) I mean, I wear a Tech cap- that was a choice in my life. I show people pictures of my family- another choice. Why do I need to be told about something that is so deeply personal. I am equally offended by hetero or gay couples when they are showing PDA, but it seems more often than not the gay couples are trying to say something beyond their mutual affection for one another.

I wish people could focus on getting along and being great people/ citizens rather than trying to advertise that they have discovered some self identity. This goes for pretty much anyone trying to shove their agenda down my throat.

Even as a Christian, I am embarassed by the militant evangelical folks who do more harm the good to the reputation of Christians. What a way to win people over, by telling them how sorry they are. It's the same way for gays telling me that because I disagree with their lifestyle, that somehow I am less enlightened, as they put it. The whole "homophobe" label in general is a misnomer. I don't fear homosexuality, I disagree with it. telling me that I'm a hater or an idiot because I disagree with something isn't exactly going to win me over.

Saying it is difficult to discuss something that you are just baffles me. If truth is truth, then why hide from it or dodge it. I am not ashamed to talk about myself, even when it is unpopular, or even when it could cost my whole livelyhood( and my family's.) We go to these "diversity and inclusion" seminars that attempt to indoctrinate us into good little employees that love all things liberal. I talk about my faith and why i don't accept certain behaviors. I can see the instructors just writhing in hate, because I know, and they know, I am their enemy. I can communicate it in a professional manner, while still getting accross that they are full of crap. Guess what, I'm not changing, and there is absolutely no chance of changing. Unlike their little agendas, which change by what pop-culture says is the "in" thing to do, I live my life with conviction. Bottom line is I treat people better than they do usually, because I don't look at folks as pawns in a political game, but as individuals who have a life and want to be successful in some way or another.
I still don't understand why it would be hard to discuss the subject, if in fact, that is who you are. Why hasn't the scientific world proven that it isn't a choice? Why hasn't education overcome ignorance? These are things I ponder constantly, yes, I get really bored when I'm driving, and think aboout stuff like this all of the time. While I look at people for what they are, what else do I owe them? Why am I constantly being asked( not by you) to add someone else to the list of the oppressed, as I am just trying to raise my family and take care of my own life. I participate in my community. I make an honest living. I am tired of the attempted guilt trips, and saying homosexuality is difficult to talk about, implies so much about both the speaker and the audience.

[okt0ber]

Sure am glad I'm not in the middle of this mess for once. :D

[RedRage00]

don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be a smart a-- on this, but why is it difficult? If that's the way you are, then why would you have shame or doubt or any other various emotions about it? Why is it such a big deal to tell everyone your sexual orientation if it is the way you are?



I understand what you are saying completely but the only reason I say its a difficult subject is because it only leads to arguing back and forth and no one will ever change their opinion. Nothing ever gets solved. We have had plenty of these types of threads and they usually get locked. :eek:

[pack0808]

right back at cha! :rolleyes:

lol



hey, believe what you want bro I will do the same. Agree to disagree and I have nothing against you. I just got offended when you basically said the Bible was crap. We are all sinners and we all will meet our maker one day.

[RedRage00]

hey, believe what you want bro I will do the same. Agree to disagree and I have nothing against you. I just got offended when you basically said the Bible was crap. We are all sinners and we all will meet our maker one day.

I didn't say the Bible was crap so don't put words in my mouth please. I'm just saying that SOME things were changed and edited and left out for a specific purpose and to fit the agenda of the early church. I am a Christian but I know when I'm being fed BS by other Christians who spread HATE when they know its not the Christian thing to do :eek: Its just like Slorch says...there are some out there that harm the reputation of Christians.

RR

[slorch]

Sure am glad I'm not in the middle of this mess for once. :D

it's been a good constructive discussion...

[wide-e-wide]

countdown to the obligatory "adam and eve not adam and steve" comment.
I've yet to hear a homosexual person make that one go away.

[slorch]

countdown to the obligatory "adam and eve not adam and steve" comment.
I've yet to hear a homosexual person make that one go away.

that's just for comedians to use...:D

[pack0808]

I didn't say the Bible was crap so don't put words in my mouth please. I'm just saying that SOME things were changed and edited and left out for a specific purpose and to fit the agenda of the early church. I am a Christian but I know when I'm being fed BS by other Christians who spread HATE when they know its not the Christian thing to do :eek: Its just like Slorch says...there are some out there that harm the reputation of Christians.

RR


Let me guess! one of the made up edited parts as you say, happened to include the part in the Bible where it states homosexuality is a sin right? ;) The Bible does not preach hate but it clearly states what is right and wrong. I just laugh how some supposed christians pick and choose what they think it is ok to follow in the Bible and what is not. They choose to ignore certain scriptures because it might effect their lifestyle. You either believe the Bible or you do not IMO. I sin almost every day but at least I admit I know it is sin and I know the Bible tells me it is wrong. That is all.

[Gangsta3]

This is not even worth arguing with some of you ignorant fools. It's not natural to you, but its natural to God b/c this is the way he made me whether you like it or not.

Yes, God made you that way. That is why the ONLY two times he EVER came out of the Heavens to destroy cities they were rank with sodomy. You are right, God made you gay at birth so you could walk the earth as an abomination. Don't use God as a cop out for the choice you made in life. He is clear how he will judge sinners. Don't try to twist it to fit your lifestyle. Also, you don't know, you HOPE you will be fine on judgment day. Now, I am not sentencing you to an eternity in hell. That is not my position. However, you made a choice. You were not born that way.

[RedRage00]

Yes, God made you that way. That is why the ONLY two times he EVER came out of the Heavens to destroy cities they were rank with sodomy. You are right, God made you gay at birth so you could walk the earth as an abomination. Don't use God as a cop out for the choice you made in life. He is clear how he will judge sinners. Don't try to twist it to fit your lifestyle. Also, you don't know, you HOPE you will be fine on judgment day. Now, I am not sentencing you to an eternity in hell. That is not my position. However, you made a choice. You were not born that way.

Yeah, because you know what goes on in my head? Don't try to act like you know because you don't. No one knows what will happen on the other side until that time comes. So don't try to act like you know for a fact that Im walking on this earth as an "abomination." Who died and made you God?! How dare you even speak like you know it all.

I chose to be gay the same day you chose to be straight. You will NEVER understand. This is a hard lifestyle. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THIS? All through middle school and High school I knew I was gay and there were many times where I just wanted to end my life b/c of all the crap I was surrounded by. Believe me, its not a choice.

It took me a long time growing up to accept who I was and I really don't give a damn anymore what anyone on this earth thinks. No one is going to keep me from being happy. I was unhappy for a long time because of people like you and all the negative things you say.....but I realized that I really dont give a rats @$$ what any one thinks of me anymore. Once I realized that I don't have to answer to any of you that is when I accepted myself and begin to live the happy life I am living now. I know that God created me the way he wanted and he is the ONLY ONE that I'll have to answer to...not any of you.

RR

[dada]

Yeah, because you know what goes on in my head? Don't try to act like you know because you don't. No one knows what will happen on the other side until that time comes. So don't try to act like you know for a fact that Im walking on this earth as an "abomination." Who died and made you God?! How dare you even speak like you know it all.

I chose to be gay the same day you chose to be straight. You will NEVER understand. This is a hard lifestyle. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THIS? All through middle school and High school I knew I was gay and there were many times where I just wanted to end my life b/c of all the crap I was surrounded by. Believe me, its not a choice.

It took me a long time growing up to accept who I was and I really don't give a damn anymore what anyone on this earth thinks. No one is going to keep me from being happy. I was unhappy for a long time because of people like you and all the negative things you say.....but I realized that I really dont give a rats @$$ what any one thinks of me anymore. Once I realized that I don't have to answer to any of you that is when I accepted myself and begin to live the happy life I am living now. I know that God created me the way he wanted and he is the ONLY ONE that I'll have to answer to...not any of you.

RR

Red Rage you're alright with me buddy!....we could go out and have a few beers...but afterwards you go do YOUR thing....and I'll go do mine....lol deal?:D I used to think it was a choice, but like you said...why would anyone choose to be in that situation? Like I said...I don't hate gay people...I just don't like the "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!! and don't say anything about it" thing. As long as YOU are happy, that's all that matters. Just incase we meet at a playoff game one day....remember the Man Laws.....the one seat rule..and the one urinal rule...lol

[Gangsta3]

Yeah, because you know what goes on in my head? Don't try to act like you know because you don't. No one knows what will happen on the other side until that time comes. So don't try to act like you know for a fact that Im walking on this earth as an "abomination." Who died and made you God?! How dare you even speak like you know it all.

I chose to be gay the same day you chose to be straight. You will NEVER understand. This is a hard lifestyle. WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THIS? All through middle school and High school I knew I was gay and there were many times where I just wanted to end my life b/c of all the crap I was surrounded by. Believe me, its not a choice.

It took me a long time growing up to accept who I was and I really don't give a damn anymore what anyone on this earth thinks. No one is going to keep me from being happy. I was unhappy for a long time because of people like you and all the negative things you say.....but I realized that I really dont give a rats @$$ what any one thinks of me anymore. Once I realized that I don't have to answer to any of you that is when I accepted myself and begin to live the happy life I am living now. I know that God created me the way he wanted and he is the ONLY ONE that I'll have to answer to...not any of you.

RR


So you say you are a Christian....but what happens at your church when the topic comes up? Do you skip it? Does your pastor say that it is okay? Where in the Bible does it say that it is okay for a man to take a man. Because it says in several places that man will take a woman. What was left out of the Bible? Where did you read the left out books? All I am reading form you is alot of stuff about me, me, me and spouting crap to back it up. I will never feel bad for the way you are trying to get people to accept you by putting them on a guilt trip. It is people who call themselves Christians, then live as an example that is nothing like God intended. I am not better than you. I sin too. I will pray for your sin and I do for my own. However, I have never once judged you or played God. The Bible is explicit on how we should live and we don't fear God enough anymore to obey His word. I will be judged one day and I hope He recognizes that I tried hard. However, I never want to have to explain to my young ones why the teacher at school said it is okay to be gay because we live in a world that has forsaken God and what he asks of us. You are the one here calling me a fool and other mean things. I called you gay. As you are, or you claim to be. If you take offense to that, that issue belongs to you.

[slorch]

Red Rage you're alright with me buddy!....we could go out and have a few beers...but afterwards you go do YOUR thing....and I'll go do mine....lol deal?:D I used to think it was a choice, but like you said...why would anyone choose to be in that situation? Like I said...I don't hate gay people...I just don't like the "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!! and don't say anything about it" thing. As long as YOU are happy, that's all that matters. Just incase we meet at a playoff game one day....remember the Man Laws.....the one seat rule..and the one urinal rule...lol

just for clarification, that goes for everybody!

LMAO!

[RedRage00]

So you say you are a Christian....but what happens at your church when the topic comes up? Do you skip it? Does your pastor say that it is okay? Where in the Bible does it say that it is okay for a man to take a man. Because it says in several places that man will take a woman. What was left out of the Bible? Where did you read the left out books? All I am reading form you is alot of stuff about me, me, me and spouting crap to back it up. I will never feel bad for the way you are trying to get people to accept you by putting them on a guilt trip. It is people who call themselves Christians, then live as an example that is nothing like God intended. I am not better than you. I sin too. I will pray for your sin and I do for my own. However, I have never once judged you or played God. The Bible is explicit on how we should live and we don't fear God enough anymore to obey His word. I will be judged one day and I hope He recognizes that I tried hard. However, I never want to have to explain to my young ones why the teacher at school said it is okay to be gay because we live in a world that has forsaken God and what he asks of us. You are the one here calling me a fool and other mean things. I called you gay. As you are, or you claim to be. If you take offense to that, that issue belongs to you.


I am not asking for you or anyone to accept me.

I no longer have any issues with myself. Thanks.

[RedRage00]

Red Rage you're alright with me buddy!....we could go out and have a few beers...but afterwards you go do YOUR thing....and I'll go do mine....lol deal?:D I used to think it was a choice, but like you said...why would anyone choose to be in that situation? Like I said...I don't hate gay people...I just don't like the "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!! and don't say anything about it" thing. As long as YOU are happy, that's all that matters. Just incase we meet at a playoff game one day....remember the Man Laws.....the one seat rule..and the one urinal rule...lol


LMAO! Deal. :cool:

[slorch]

So you say you are a Christian....but what happens at your church when the topic comes up? Do you skip it? Does your pastor say that it is okay? Where in the Bible does it say that it is okay for a man to take a man. Because it says in several places that man will take a woman. What was left out of the Bible? Where did you read the left out books? All I am reading form you is alot of stuff about me, me, me and spouting crap to back it up. I will never feel bad for the way you are trying to get people to accept you by putting them on a guilt trip. It is people who call themselves Christians, then live as an example that is nothing like God intended. I am not better than you. I sin too. I will pray for your sin and I do for my own. However, I have never once judged you or played God. The Bible is explicit on how we should live and we don't fear God enough anymore to obey His word. I will be judged one day and I hope He recognizes that I tried hard. However, I never want to have to explain to my young ones why the teacher at school said it is okay to be gay because we live in a world that has forsaken God and what he asks of us. You are the one here calling me a fool and other mean things. I called you gay. As you are, or you claim to be. If you take offense to that, that issue belongs to you.

no matter how hard anyone tries, they will fall way short. The only way to Him is through Jesus Christ. Neither works nor sin will determine one's admittance to heaven, but the acceptance of jesus Christ as your savior does. His sacrifice covers your sin in the eyes of the Lord, and that is the ONLY way to go to heaven. it covers ALL sin, because they are all an abomination unto the Lord. jesus paid the price for all of us. it is up to us to accept that gift. At least that's what my Bible says.

[Gangsta3]

no matter how hard anyone tries, they will fall way short. The only way to Him is through Jesus Christ. Neither works nor sin will determine one's admittance to heaven, but the acceptance of jesus Christ as your savior does. His sacrifice covers your sin in the eyes of the Lord, and that is the ONLY way to go to heaven. it covers ALL sin, because they are all an abomination unto the Lord. jesus paid the price for all of us. it is up to us to accept that gift. At least that's what my Bible says.

Agreed. However, I see that my questions were avoided. If I go to church and the I learn that lusting is wrong...... I quit going to the strip-club. I WANT to go because I am a guy and that is one of my sins. However, I feel the conviction and I learned that just because that is what I WANT to do, doesn't make it right. What do they talk about at churches that do not focus on how we SHOULD live our lives? Do they focus on how it is okay to live the way we WANT to? Why has our society turned into a "if it feels good it must be natural" society? I know looking at dimes on the strip looks good to me but I am sinning against my God and my future wife. Just because it feels good or right to me....doens't make it natural.

[greatestdane]

Agreed. However, I see that my questions were avoided. If I go to church and the I learn that lusting is wrong...... I quit going to the strip-club. I WANT to go because I am a guy and that is one of my sins. However, I feel the conviction and I learned that just because that is what I WANT to do, doesn't make it right. What do they talk about at churches that do not focus on how we SHOULD live our lives? Do they focus on how it is okay to live the way we WANT to? Why has our society turned into a "if it feels good it must be natural" society? I know looking at dimes on the strip looks good to me but I am sinning against my God and my future wife. Just because it feels good or right to me....doens't make it natural.

That is a very good analogy. Sin is sin but I know that many of the things I do are wrong. I have to turn from them, not embrace them and make people feel like bad people for not accepting them. People wouldn't embrace a pornstar if she wanted to come out and say that it is what God wants her to do. Why homosexuality? Is it because she gets paid to be a pornstar? What is the difference in the sins of these people that one has to be accepted and the other is turned from in any general conversation?

[pied]

don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be a smart a-- on this, but why is it difficult? If that's the way you are, then why would you have shame or doubt or any other various emotions about it? Why is it such a big deal to tell everyone your sexual orientation if it is the way you are?


Maybe because people are coming out staing that they hate you because of that. In addition there are a ton of people around, whom they would normally get a long that seem to have the same opinion and would not associate with you as they normally would.

People's private, especially sexual lives tend to be private.

Someone brought up what do they discuss in church. How many of us have had discussions about our preferences in church. On top? In the car? On the couch? Foreplay? None?

Just curious as to how many times you have discussed this in church?

[slorch]

Agreed. However, I see that my questions were avoided. If I go to church and the I learn that lusting is wrong...... I quit going to the strip-club. I WANT to go because I am a guy and that is one of my sins. However, I feel the conviction and I learned that just because that is what I WANT to do, doesn't make it right. What do they talk about at churches that do not focus on how we SHOULD live our lives? Do they focus on how it is okay to live the way we WANT to? Why has our society turned into a "if it feels good it must be natural" society? I know looking at dimes on the strip looks good to me but I am sinning against my God and my future wife. Just because it feels good or right to me....doens't make it natural.

actually sins of the flesh are the most natural kind, IMO. i agree about continuing to go against the word of God, and whether somebody truly accepts Christ as their savior and deliberately sins, but how many sins are accidental?
Do we tell the truth every time?
Do we never covet?
ect,ect.
Do we still have the grace of God, even after all of that? Absolutely.

I agree that hedonism is not the right way for our society to go, and it seems like there's awhole lot of editing going on as far as what is acceptable and isn't acceptable in the Church. That is why more and more people are joining Non-Denominational churches which tend to be more fundamental in their interpretation of the Word.

[tfath15]

Maybe because people are coming out staing that they hate you because of that. In addition there are a ton of people around, whom they would normally get a long that seem to have the same opinion and would not associate with you as they normally would.

People's private, especially sexual lives tend to be private.

Someone brought up what do they discuss in church. How many of us have had discussions about our preferences in church. On top? In the car? On the couch? Foreplay? None?

Just curious as to how many times you have discussed this in church?

As a matter of fact it was discussed last week. "How a man should take his wife." It is in Solomon's Song.

[greatestdane]

Maybe because people are coming out staing that they hate you because of that. In addition there are a ton of people around, whom they would normally get a long that seem to have the same opinion and would not associate with you as they normally would.

People's private, especially sexual lives tend to be private.

Someone brought up what do they discuss in church. How many of us have had discussions about our preferences in church. On top? In the car? On the couch? Foreplay? None?
Just curious as to how many times you have discussed this in church?

People's perverted variations of sex are not discussed in Church. However, making love with your wife is.

[pied]

People's perverted variations of sex are not discussed in Church. However, making love with your wife is.

What is defines the variations?

[Gangsta3]

As a matter of fact it was discussed last week. "How a man should take his wife." It is in Solomon's Song.

As you can see, God compelled men to write about everything that he wanted us to know. Nothing was left out. If it was, it was MEANT TO BE.

[slorch]

Maybe because people are coming out staing that they hate you because of that. In addition there are a ton of people around, whom they would normally get a long that seem to have the same opinion and would not associate with you as they normally would.

People's private, especially sexual lives tend to be private.

Someone brought up what do they discuss in church. How many of us have had discussions about our preferences in church. On top? In the car? On the couch? Foreplay? None?

Just curious as to how many times you have discussed this in church?


i agree, then why are some leveraging their private lives to gain political favor?

[greatestdane]

What is defines the variations?

Having sex in a car with a hooker, girlfriend, friend, drunken girl, one night stand.....the list goes on and on. Make it whatever you want.....it seems to be the "in" thing to do nowadays.

[Gangsta3]

Having sex in a car with a hooker, girlfriend, friend, drunken girl, one night stand.....the list goes on and on. Make it whatever you want.....it seems to be the "in" thing to do nowadays.

Considering that these things are to take place between a man and a woman who have been jojned by God; I tend to agree.

[pied]

i agree, then why are some leveraging their private lives to gain political favor?

I imagine the subject is doing this for finanacial gain as in the NBA. Does he have political aspirations? I have not heard of any. I have not followed it that closely either.

By the same token, don't all politicians leverage their private life to gain favor? Bush with the Evangelicals? Gore with the environmentalists? etc. etc.

[slorch]

I imagine the subject is doing this for finanacial gain as in the NBA. Does he have political aspirations? I have not heard of any. I have not followed it that closely either.

By the same token, don't all politicians leverage their private life to gain favor? Bush with the Evangelicals? Gore with the environmentalists? etc. etc.

I'm talking more about the workplace, as sexuality has had little effect on most politicians( (i.e. Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, ect), except the dude in Fla hitting on the underage pages.

[pied]

Considering that these things are to take place between a man and a woman who have been jojned by God; I tend to agree.

You mean by a married mana and woman correct?

We certainly do not want to get into a discussion about those who violated that do we?

Most of my firends have kids. I assumed the did it as many times as the number of kids they have. I certainly do not know more than that, nor do I want to.

My point was specific to being embarrassed to discuss things, especially in church that you do. I think that most of us would be a little embarrassed to say, " I really like it when my wife touches me XXXX" or "My wife really XXXXX XXXX well and I am happy about that" with their preacher. I doubt any of us find problems with that, but do we discuss it? tfath apparently does. I have not heard that discussion before.

Why be afraid to discuss your decisions and preferences?

[pied]

I'm talking more about the workplace, as sexuality has had little effect on most politicians( (i.e. Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, ect), except the dude in Fla hitting on the underage pages.

What political gain was Ameche looking for? He was retired, correct?

I figured he came out to sell books.

[slorch]

You mean by a married mana and woman correct?

We certainly do not want to get into a discussion about those who violated that do we?

Most of my firends have kids. I assumed the did it as many times as the number of kids they have. I certainly do not know more than that, nor do I want to.

My point was specific to being embarrassed to discuss things, especially in church that you do. I think that most of us would be a little embarrassed to say, " I really like it when my wife touches me XXXX" or "My wife really XXXXX XXXX well and I am happy about that" with their preacher. I doubt any of us find problems with that, but do we discuss it? tfath apparently does. I have not heard that discussion before.

Why be afraid to discuss your decisions and preferences?

because there is still a standard of decency. We in fact last Sunday talked about sex and marriage in both Bible study class and in the main sermon. There is nothing shameful about discussing sex, as it is a beautiful gift from God to man. Just as you don't get into the details of where your debt comes from in your own house, you could still have a class on Fiscal Responsibility at church, but there is no need to go into the personal details in order to teach the concepts. The same goes for discussing love, sex, and marriage.

[pied]

because there is still a standard of decency. We in fact last Sunday talked about sex and marriage in both Bible study class and in the main sermon. There is nothing shameful about discussing sex, as it is a beautiful gift from God to man. Just as you don't get into the details of where your debt comes from in your own house, you could still have a class on Fiscal Responsibility at church, but there is no need to go into the personal details in order to teach the concepts. The same goes for discussing love, sex, and marriage.

I can see that. It just seems odd when you typed this not that long ago.


If truth is truth, then why hide from it or dodge it. I am not ashamed to talk about myself, even when it is unpopular, or even when it could cost my whole livelyhood( and my family's.)

[slorch]

What political gain was Ameche looking for? He was retired, correct?

I figured he came out to sell books.

we've been talking about the bigger picture than just Amaechi, but that was the beginning of the hypocricy discussion. Whether he came out for noble reasons( self pride) or financial gain.

BTW, political power isn't limited to the government. It's basically going on anytime 3 or more people are involved.

[pied]

I wouyld add, could Amaechi have asked for anything better?

I never heard of the guy before, now, because of Hardaway's remarks, this is front page stories everywhere. He(Amaechi) would probably say publically that he wishes that people did not feel that way, but I sure he will cash the royalty check from the book sales which most certainly will be bolstered by the hub bub.

[wide-e-wide]

Why would anyone want to read a book about a scrub NBA player who just happens to be gay?
Who cares?

[slorch]

I can see that. It just seems odd when you typed this not that long ago.

If you mean that I am going to go into detail about what happens in my house, well, that is my business. But I don't have any problem talking about my love for my wife, kids, or country.

I'm not saying gays should talk about their intimate moments,on the contrary, we have discussed the need for privacy. by the same token, if someone is gay, i don't understand the need to declare it publically, if they have been that way their whole life. i also don't understand the conflict within ones'self if that is what you truly are, then be just that. don't hide it.

[RedRage00]

Why would anyone want to read a book about a scrub NBA player who just happens to be gay?
Who cares?

I honestly didnt know who he was either. :confused:

[slorch]

I wouyld add, could Amaechi have asked for anything better?

I never heard of the guy before, now, because of Hardaway's remarks, this is front page stories everywhere. He(Amaechi) would probably say publically that he wishes that people did not feel that way, but I sure he will cash the royalty check from the book sales which most certainly will be bolstered by the hub bub.

i will not buy his book. I think he is a hypocrite and a profiteer.

The reaction is a result of people who, instead of living by their own ideals, let our culture steer them. It's still the "in" thing to come "out" so what was there to lose for Amaechi, besides credibility?

[pied]

i will not buy his book. I think he is a hypocrite and a profiteer.

The reaction is a result of people who, instead of living by their own ideals, let our culture steer them. It's still the "in" thing to come "out" so what was there to lose for Amaechi, besides credibility?

I won't buy his book because I am already about 5 books behind and I don't rellay care.

If it is the in thing to come out, who exactly has done so? The last story I heard about was the Grey's whatever actor, whom someone else took it upon themselves to announce.

[SV61]

I won't buy his book because I am already about 5 books behind and I don't rellay care.

If it is the in thing to come out, who exactly has done so? The last story I heard about was the Grey's whatever actor, whom someone else took it upon themselves to announce.


I got it!

Maybe Hardaway and Amaechi are in cahoots together. Hardaway drums up enough pub, people gotta go out and buy the book.

There is no such thing as bad publicity. Ask Dennis Rodman.

[jtk1519]

I want the board's opinion on a matter of that I have thought of quite often since this topic first came up.

I know the biblical stance against homosexuality. I believe, and this is not a quote, that there is a passage that says something to the effect of "do not lay with another man". However, where in the Bible does it condemn loving another man? Not the sexual act of love, but the emotion... the feeling. I believe that it is a sin to have sex with another man (assuming you are a man of course), but mainly because the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is not right and since a man and a man cannot be married, any sexual act would violate that basic Biblical principal. But there is so much more to a relationship than that which is sexually based. Is it a violation of basic Biblical principal for a man to love another man or a woman to love another woman?

Until I see scripture saying one way or the other (and I am no Biblical scholar mind you), I'm not prepared to say that love between people of the same sex is wrong. The physical act, sure, but not the emotion and therein lies my internal quarrel. Love is a beautiful thing that is every bit as fragile as it is precious and when it comes along and two people share that emotional bond, I simply cannot in good conscience find fault with them just because they are of the same sex. And in my heart of hearts, I don't believe God does either.

[tfath15]

I want the board's opinion on a matter of that I have thought of quite often since this topic first came up.

I know the biblical stance against homosexuality. I believe, and this is not a quote, that there is a passage that says something to the effect of "do not lay with another man". However, where in the Bible does it condemn loving another man? Not the sexual act of love, but the emotion... the feeling. I believe that it is a sin to have sex with another man (assuming you are a man of course), but mainly because the Bible says that sex outside of marriage is not right and since a man and a man cannot be married, any sexual act would violate that basic Biblical principal. But there is so much more to a relationship than that which is sexually based. Is it a violation of basic Biblical principal for a man to love another man or a woman to love another woman?

Until I see scripture saying one way or the other (and I am no Biblical scholar mind you), I'm not prepared to say that love between people of the same sex is wrong. The physical act, sure, but not the emotion and therein lies my internal quarrel. Love is a beautiful thing that is every bit as fragile as it is precious and when it comes along and two people share that emotional bond, I simply cannot in good conscience find fault with them just because they are of the same sex. And in my heart of hearts, I don't believe God does either.

I am sure that is what the gay men in the two cities God destroyed would say. There is plenty of proof in the Bible. The wordly people refuse to see it.

[jtk1519]

I am sure that is what the gay men in the two cities God destroyed would say. There is plenty of proof in the Bible. The wordly people refuse to see it.

Show me.

[KT2000]

I should've locked this one earlier. Thread's gone past the boundary of what we will allow on this site. Take further discussion on the matter to PM or email.