Smoaky's Response to Weekend Posts (ET 5A Football)

[smoaky]

First of all, I asked the administrator if it would be okay for me to post this thread.

Permission granted.

David Smoak
KTBB Radio
Smoaky.com

*****

I was alerted to a few threads on this website, which is a website I have a great deal of respect for…in fact, I’m all for any and all websites that promote Texas high school football.

I’ve asked the webmaster to post this thread, and I don’t know they will or not.

I guess there are some issues where I need to clear the air.

For some of you, it won’t matter.

For most of you, I think it will.

Especially those of you who are true fans of Texas high school football, and those of you who can shed your loyalty to one program or the other long enough to read my response.

First of all, I’m writing this while flying back from Columbus, Ohio…I’ll try and paste it on 5atexasfootball.com when I arrive at DFW.

Regardless of whether Tyler Lee had won or lost to Cincinnati Colerain, the event itself was fantastic.

I would’ve supported any team from Texas, whether they play in Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, or California.

I would’ve supported Longview, Lufkin, John Tyler, Southlake Carroll, or anyone else who would’ve accepted this challenge.

I thought the people in Ohio did what they promised…although the crowd was smaller than anticipated. I guessed about 12,000 while the Cincinnati Enquirer reported just under 11-thousand. The people marketing the event expected at least 20,000.

I’m not sure if the hype surrounding Texas-Ohio State helped or hurt the gate, or the fact a cable company decided to broadcast the ESPNU broadcast in Cincinnati, which wasn’t supposed to happen.

On this one occasion, the game between Tyler Lee and Cincinnati Colerain, just so involved a football team we’ve been broadcasting since 1991.

Tyler Lee wasn’t the only program deserving of this opportunity, but because of their association with Titus Sports Marketing, they were given the opportunity.

“Not going” would’ve been the easy decision for Coach Owens.

But had he said no, and his decision leaked out…some of you criticizing why Tyler Lee was invited would’ve criticized Lee for not accepting the challenge.

From all indications, and from discussions through Titus Sports Marketing and Fahlgren Sports Marketing, other programs in Texas were contacted about the chance to play in Ohio…but those programs chose not to travel.

There’s no right or wrong decision here.

Personally, I enjoyed the trip, but I would’ve enjoyed broadcasting the Lufkin @ Tyler Lee game just as much.

Tyler Lee had very little to gain with this trip…outside of the once in a lifetime opportunity for the players, they had a large bulls-eye on their back.

They were the program that accepted the huge responsibility of representing the proud state of Texas and the 1,200-plus member schools who play the game.

They played in front of a hostile environment…but they’ve done that before too.

The travel time for a flight from DFW to Columbus is actually less than driving from Tyler to Waco High…but taking an entire program on the road, without a support group was a tough call.

I would think the next time this opportunity arises I would recommend the program involved forcing the event staff to include all aspects of the program.

That includes, everything that makes high school football so special…that includes the cost of sending not only the football team and coaching staff, but the Cheerleaders, Drill Team, and Band.

Now…let’s get back to some of your posts that have either accused me of saying on thing or the other…

Before getting to that, I would offer my email address to any and all involved for your response, so that, if possible we can understand each other much better.

I’m not in this for just Tyler Lee or anyone else. I’m in this for Texas High School Football, and especially East Texas high school football.

If the owners of this site wouldn’t mind, I didn’t develop Smoaky.com for my own personal use…but for the use of the great high school football fans throughout East Texas, and Texas.

I created Smoaky.com for the purpose of giving 140-plus programs a chance to document their own history.

I’ve had dozens of coaches from other programs tell me how much they appreciated the ability to go “back in time” and figure out their respective programs history.

I’ve always wanted to do that, and I’m glad I did.

If I was supporting just Tyler Lee, then why include 140-plus other programs?

I do the Tyler Lee broadcasts because they were available for our radio station to pick up the year after I became sports director at KTBB radio. At the time, we were broadcasting Chapel Hill. Picking up Tyler Lee was a no-brainer. We didn’t have the chance to pick up John Tyler, Longview, or Lufkin. Other stations already had those contracts, and we’re doing a great job.

Plus, with our location and frequency, picking up Longview and/or Lufkin wouldn’t make sense anyway.

JT was already hooked to the hip with KZEY.

However, when KZEY dropped JT after the 2000 season, TISD put out bids on stations wanting to broadcast JT football.

The company I work for, Gleiser Communications was the “only” radio station in the Tyler market willing to make that commitment. Not one other station showed any interest in John Tyler football.

We did.

I couldn’t fathom JT football not being on the radio…so I was both surprised, yet excited about picking up their broadcasts.

Now back to some comments on this board in regards to the Colerain-Tyler Lee game.

I never, ever said Colerain would beat Longview, Lufkin, or John Tyler.

I said Colerain could play with Longview, Lufkin, or John Tyler…and that was more reference to their style, physicality, and talent than anything else.

They have blue-chips like the 5A East Texas programs, they have commitment to their program, and they have a solid coaching staff.

However, I do think they could beat an East Texas 5A on occasion…my only question would be whether they could do that week-in and week-out, especially if the East Texas 5A’s ever reverted back to the double-round-robin format from hell.

They were very impressive against Tyler Lee.

Here’s what gets interesting.

Saying Colerain “could play” against the other East Texas 5A’s wasn’t giving Tyler Lee an excuse for losing.

The Red Raiders were up against a football team as good, if not better than they were, and when Tyler Lee had their chances of getting back into the game at the start of the second-half…they didn’t get it done.

Give Colerain’s defense credit for making big plays with their backs against the wall.

Tyler Lee doesn’t need any excuses…they played a very good football team, lost, and now they must move on.

If they dwell too much on the loss to Colerain, they’ll once again be 2-2 heading into their district schedule.

Euless-Trinity is probably better than a year ago…they’ve mauled their first two opponents, and they have a similar style to that of Colerain. But Trinity also has a quarterback who can throw it around to some talented receivers, and he really grew up a year ago.

I would love nothing more than to see another Texas high school power play against Colerain or other national powers.

And if that game involved anyone else, I’d be supporting whoever represented Texas.

Here’s another note for some of you to think about.

Last week, some John Tyler fans questioned whether I’d given them enough credit for their 2-0 start…yet I was one of the few who ranked JT a little higher in the local polls than anyone else.

I could sense, and even see what Thomas Brooks had brought to the table.

I’ve seen John Tyler play twice, and they are for real…period.

Yet, those same JT fans also don’t know that I was complimenting this year’s team when placing them in the same sentence with Longview, and Lufkin.

That used to be a given, the past 3-4 years it hasn’t been…this season, it appears as if JT has re-established their swagger, and they’ve been very impressive at 3-0.

I’ve already picked the Lions to beat Kilgore this Friday, at Kilgore.

Yet, fans on this site, criticize me for including JT in the same breath as Longview and Lufkin.

You see, no matter what I write or say, in my profession, it’s either never enough, or something that can and will be criticized.

I’m not writing this to convince anyone about me and/or my professional integrity (which is very important to me).

I’m writing this because it sums up, and answers a lot of questions that are raised by the members of this site and others.

For Lufkin fans…I started my career in Lufkin, covered the Panthers for three-years from 1981-1983, and I enjoyed my time there…and even though the Panthers have been moved south…I still do everything possible to include them in my site, on my afternoon sports talk show, and among my East Texas polls.

For Longview fans…I spent four great years of my television career covering Doug Cox and the Lobos…and those were some of my favorite years in television. I spent more time in the Lobos field house than I did at home with my wife and newborn child.

For John Tyler fans…I have said many times, one of my greatest single-moments was having the honor of broadcasting the final four playoff games during their incredible run to the state championship in 1994.

And yet, after all the criticism of me being a Tyler Lee “homer”, I had a couple of Red Raiders fan ask why I didn’t name more Lee players while having the honor of being on numerous radio shows throughout the Columbus and Cincinnati area.

One thing I did say was how Colerain wouldn’t be the only great team Tyler Lee would face this season, because of what teams they’ve faced before, and who they’ll face this season before it’s said and done.

You see, I can’t win.

I’m just thrilled and honored that so many people care about what I’m saying.

For “PantherStang84” to compare what I say about Tyler Lee football to the second coming of Jesus Christ is absolutely insane.

Perhaps your biggest problem is not me, but the exposure we give the Tyler football programs.

We do it right, we cover them wall-to-wall, while also juggling coverage of the Cowboys, and college football…and oh yea, about 140-plus other programs.

We must be doing something right, because the eight Associated Press plaques on my wall that say “Best Play-By-Play” in Texas….and the other seven that say runner-up.

I would give your program and any other the same passion, quality and pride if that were my responsibility.

If I were broadcasting Lufkin football the same way I do Tyler Lee football, you’d love it.

I’ve already had a couple of u2u conversations with (WIDE-EYED-WIDE) about his post from Friday night…he and I understand each other much better.

And if at all possible, anyone who would like to contact me directly, my email address is smoaky@ktbb.com.

I would like to make the following points about the Tyler Lee football program, and yes, it’s because I have done their broadcasts since 1991…and I’ve read and heard so many questions and comments.

In the early-90’s, Tyler Lee was without question (with the exception of Nacogdoches) the Class 5A step-child around East Texas…they couldn’t beat Marshall, John Tyler, Longview, or Lufkin. And if they did, it wasn’t very often…until.

Mike Owens arrives in 1996, and from 1997-through-2004 the Red Raiders start to beat those teams consistently at some time or another.

Up until last season, and correct me if I’m wrong…Tyler Lee held a winning record over all four of the above programs.

They’ve won at Longview.

They’ve won at Lufkin.

And they’d won at Marshall (prior to Marshall’s drop to Class 4-A).

They’ve beaten John Tyler every year since 1999….although that streak could be in jeopardy this season…that too remains to be seen.

The criticism then was, okay, but they can’t win a district championship…which they also did on more than one occasion in one of the most difficult districts in Texas.

Okay, well Tyler Lee doesn’t play a tough enough non-district schedule…in fact one quote I’ll always remember from a JT fan was “if Tyler Lee is going to run with the Big ‘Boys, they need to start beating the Big ‘Boys” (in reference to losses to tougher competition in their non-district schedule).

So with that being said, Tyler Lee starts scheduling Waco High, Euless-Trinity, Chaminade-Madonna, and Cincinnati Colerain.

Okay, and now think about this…

Here come the complaints of why does Tyler Lee gets to play some of those opponents out of state?

Well, there’s an obvious answer, because they were invited, and they accepted the challenge.

I know of a couple of VERY SALTY Class 5-A state champions (from 2000-2004) who were involved in talks with the various marketing groups with the game in Ohio, but as I mentioned before, they thought otherwise. Not because they backed-down from a challenge, because they didn’t want to do it…and that’s fine too.

And quite frankly, a couple of other Texas programs Fahlgren Sports Marketing was interested in, but those talks never developed either.

Okay so Lee wins district championships and their non-district schedule improves, but now they next questions is why can’t the Red Raiders get past the second-round of the playoffs…so in 2002, they reach the semi-finals, and the quarter-finals in 2003.

Okay, but they can’t get to a state championship game…so last season they reach the state championship game, and win it all.

Okay, but they won the Class 5-A Division One championship, and the Division II state championship road is more difficult.

East Texans should be proud of their high school football programs, especially in Class 5-A, and that includes Longview, Lufkin, John Tyler, and Tyler Lee.

If you have the time to respond, please do, if not…I love your passion for high school football and your opinion(s) anyway.

Smoaky

[pack0808]

I just wish you were back here in Lufkin smoaky. I still need to have my dad give you a call so yall can catch up on old times. ;) By the way wideewide is a child hood friend of mine you probably met when you were here because we were like brothers and always together. Small world huh!! I do have to correct one thing Smoaky and maybe i am just misintrepeting your statement?? You said before last year Lee won at Lufkin?? Lee lost to Lufkin at Lufkin in 2004 and 2003. Lee beat Lufkin at Tyler in 2003 to make the series that year a split. But Tyler Lee did beat Lufkin in 2002 at home in ot by 1 point. Great game in nasty weather. That was the last time Lufkin lost a home game and it was a rare home loss for the Panthers period in recent history. Lee is about the only team that has had any success there lately until Lufkin in 2003 and 2004 prevailed at home vs Lee. Tyler Lee is a great program now and they are tough as nails to play. Without a doubt you are the best play by play guy around and i think it is very obvious. I have nothing but respect for you and i really enjoy listening to your radio program when i can pick it up. You can never please everybody and unforunately that is just the way it is. Dang if you do and dang if you dont right??

[dada]

Great read Smoaky! and thanks for the T-shirt too!. The only thing I hate is that my girlfriend sleeps in it. I get a funny feeling seeing her wake up in a shirt with "Property of Smoaky" on it....just dosent seem right :D

[CoppellCowboy57]

Great post Smoaky...Its true what you said...Alot of other great Texas programs have been invited to play out-side of Texas, but nobuddy took the challenge. I take my hate off to Tyler Lee for a great game played...If a player reads this, Keep y'alls head up...it was a great game, y'all played y'alls hearts out against a good team...It wasnt fair that you guys didnt have a drill team or a band or cheerleaders there, because it wasnt fair that you guys had to play against there noice, against there cheers with out your support group behind you..

[smoaky]

Pack0808,

I think you misread my comment...I was only saying Tyler Lee has won at their district rivals, current and former.

Believe me...the Lufkin win a year ago was very similar to Lee's loss against Colerain.

Smoaky

[owlfan 1]

Smoaky: You are a class act, and, in my opinion, the last word when it comes to East Texas HS sports. I enjoy reading your comments on your site, and appreciate your comments here. I'm looking forward to a possible rematch between my Owls and the Raiders (although Rowlett may make the playoffs and mess it all up). If it does happen, I'll look forward to shaking your hand again when ya'll come to Garland...

[KT2000]

Smoaky,

You've provided an outstanding service to high school football and sports in general during your time on television and in radio. You fully deserve any accolades you receive.

I'm not an East Texan by birth or trade, but I make a point to pull up your broadcasts whenever I'm not out at a game down here. I really enjoy the coverage you and your team provide. Thanks for continuing to "pass along the message."

[KT2000]

bttt

[pack0808]

Pack0808,

I think you misread my comment...I was only saying Tyler Lee has won at their district rivals, current and former.

Believe me...the Lufkin win a year ago was very similar to Lee's loss against Colerain.

Smoaky


Sorry about that smoak i guess i need to take some reading comprehension classes. LOL

[Favpack]

Thanks for the insights Smoaky - much appreciated from this ET and Texas football fan (in that order :) ). However, I honestly can't remember a post here about you being a Lee homer - but I don't follow every thread - I would certainly dispute it if I heard it.

On the game itself....I have been outspoken about the fact that Coach Owens backed out of a away/home handshake agreement with Coach Outlaw to pull this off - I didn't appreciate it, but I doubt that bothers Coach Owens in the least. He did what he did, now it's done.

I'm sure this was a great thrill for the players that won't play college ball (90% of the team), but I also know many of these players also won't have the chance in their career to host Lufkin. The players' parents missed the opportunity to host, and possibly beat a top 5 team in Texas.

I'm going to make an assumption this team is exhausted - and they play possibly one of the 3 top teams in Texas this Friday - and Trinity could care less what Lee did. In fact, I'm assuming Trinity will be even more fired up after this game and last season's semi loss to Lee - it could honestly be an ugly game.

Bottom line to me - last week did not help Lee defend it's crown here in Texas one iota. If Coach Owens thinks the trip was still the way to go - so be it. It is over and future Lee opponents won't care.

Thanks again.

[dragonsdaddy]

fav, that is exactly why dodge turned down offers to do circus acts. he is convinced and rightly so that good preparatory games can be had for a 45 minute bus ride. things may be different if the money becomes substantial enough.

[Colgar]

Smoaky:

I am much smarter today than I was yesterday.

Now I know that not only is high school football equal from state-to-state but the passion of the fans is the same.

As you probably know the Yappi site has the same arguments, both rational and irrational. It is kind of comforting to know that no matter where you go, people are predictable in both their capacity to be kind and their capacity to be cruel.

[Colgar]

fav, that is exactly why dodge turned down offers to do circus acts. he is convinced and rightly so that good preparatory games can be had for a 45 minute bus ride. things may be different if the money becomes substantial enough.


Dodge made his decision and I have yet to see anyone blame him. So, why is it such a problem for you that someone else made a different choice.

Get over it already.

If anyone from Tyler Lee had a negative experience in Ohio, that is their cross to bear. If they had a positive experience, then maybe just maybe, your kids missed out on something.

In short, mind your own business.

[Favpack]

Oh, c'mon Colgar - don't get all dramatic on us - forums are here for opinions.

[dragonsdaddy]

Dodge made his decision and I have yet to see anyone blame him. So, why is it such a problem for you that someone else made a different choice.

Get over it already.

If anyone from Tyler Lee had a negative experience in Ohio, that is their cross to bear. If they had a positive experience, then maybe just maybe, your kids missed out on something.

In short, mind your own business.
in short, get back to your business. where in my words do you read problems? we had a circus last year, that garnered no extra funds, and was a potential distraction. after the season, let's revisit the trip and its effects. if they stay within 2 tds of trinity this week, i'll be severely impressed. let's leave ohio to themselves and keep texas hs football to ourselves as much as possible.

[KT2000]

bttt

[PantherStang84]

Since Mr. Smoak sent the email to me personally and named me in the message. Here is my response that I have already sent to him...


First of all, I don't think you should apologize for fulfilling the duties of your profession of promoting Tyler Lee football. However, I did and still take issue with the following comment...

"I said Colerain could play with Longview, Lufkin, or John Tyler…and that was more reference to their style, physicality, and talent than anything else."

My point is the above comment is pure speculation and theory and nothing more. John Outlaw has said to the media here in Lufkin that yes Lufkin was invited to Ohio and he turned it down. (There was no criticism leveled at him from the community either.) I have no idea what other, if any, other Texas teams were invited so I wont speculate about their reasons for turning it down.

I realize the sports media loves to speculate about how different teams would match up against each other. Heck. That's their job. That doesn't mean I have to like it. Just two weeks into the season, there are numerous instances where the sports media has speculated and theorized about football teams and were proven wrong. Here are a couple of examples to prove my point....

1. A self proclaimed "football expert" on ESPN radio claimed that the Big XII conference was the most overrated conference in college football. Furthermore, after Ohio State embarrasses University of Texas on national TV the Big XII would be exposed for the fraud that it is. He also stated that the Big X and SEC conferences are where the true college football powerhouses reside.

Well, we all know how the UT vs. OSU game turned out. Beyond that. Every Top Ten ranked Big X school lost this past weekend. So much for that theory.

2. After playing above their heads two weeks ago and beating Oklahoma, TCU came in at #22 in the national football polls. However, this past weekend SMU spanked TCU and sent them home. So much for that one too.

I learned my lesson about speculation two years ago after Lufkin's crash and burn performance in the first round of the playoffs. There was no possible way in my mind that Lufkin could lose that game even though the handwriting was on the wall the last three games of the regular season.

Therefore, I will not speculate about theoretical match ups on 5atexasfootball.com or any where else and I take issue with those who do. Despite several attempts by Longview fans on the forum to bait me into an argument of Longview vs. Lufkin, I refuse to engage in such a diatribe. If Longview and Lufkin play each other this year, that is at least 12 weeks away. There are a lot of football games to played until then and anything could happen to either team to prevent that match up.

Therefore, any conversation about such a game is pure theory. The possibility of Lufkin playing Tyler Lee this year is remote at best. Therefore, I will not comment about that possible match up either and I won't comment on how Lufkin would fare against any of those team's opponents either. (Wide-E-Wide made the "Should have sent Lufkin." comment. Not me.)

The little snippet of my post that was taken off the website was part of an entire conversation on the thread. I think one would have to read the entire thread to understand what I was saying. This email just expands upon that comment to clarify my position.

If you will permit me, I would like to clear up another point that may have been misunderstood.

I am not a Tyler Lee hater. In fact, anyone who knows me personally will tell you I am probably REL's biggest fan outside of Tyler, Texas. Instead of traveling to Waco last year to watch Lufkin vs.SLC, I stayed home and watched Lee's State Championship game on TV and listened to the Lufkin game on the radio. I absolutely love what Mike Owens has done with that program. Furthermore, his teams play with class.

There was one thing I liked about the "District From Hell." When REL and Lufkin played each other, those two teams absolutely beat the snot out of each other for 2 1/2 hours. However after the games, there was a whole lot of neck hugging, back slapping, and hand shaking going on in the middle of the field. I love that about the Lufkin and REL programs. They leave it all on the field.

The only time you will find me rooting against Tyler Lee is if they play Lufkin (of course) or my alma mater Galena Park North Shore. (sorry, I have to be true to my school.)

If you feel my comment on 5atexasfootball.com was over the top, then I apologize and regret you felt that way. However, I still stand behind the context of the entire conversation on the thread.

[pack0808]

I would not put all state's football at equal status. That is a bit of a stretch. It is pretty clear if you go by div1a recruits and especially NFL players that Texas, Florida, and California is the best but states like Ohio, Alabama, Lousiana and several others play some great football also. Like most conferences, the Big 10 has many Texas, Florida, and Cali kids but you do not see many midwest players on many Texas, Cali, and Florida teams. There is no comparison actually. Yes great football is played all over and yes Ohio has some great football teams capable of beating anybody but let's not crown them as being the best because of this one hs game played on their turf. If Ohio and Texas hs teams played every week then we would get a much clearer picture and that is not going to happen. Let's just give it a rest and say both Ohio and Texas play great hs football and move on. :)

[pack0808]

Hey PantherStang just like you cannot go by the Bowl games where the Big10 has a big advantage over the Big12 as a true indication on who is better you also cannot go by last week's results either on who is truely better. Iowa St beat Iowa for the first time in 3 years only the 7th time in 34 meetings, and Ohio St lost in the final moments to a great Texas team but they have had very good success vs other Big12 opponents in the past. It does not mean that the Big12 is clearly better then the Big10 that is for sure. I think both conferences have plenty of talent and we will see how the season plays out on who is better this particular year. Still too early to tell. Heck, Purdue or Minnesota might win the Big 10 this year not Michigan, Ohio St, or Iowa. I hope not!! I do think UT is for real though. Anybody that can win at the shoe is for real.

[PantherStang84]

Hey PantherStang just like you cannot go by the Bowl games where the Big10 has a big advantage over the Big12 as a true indication on who is better you also cannot go by last week's results either on who is truely better. Iowa St beat Iowa for the first time in 3 years only the 7th time in 34 meetings, and Ohio St lost in the final moments to a great Texas team but they have had very good success vs other Big12 opponents in the past. It does not mean that the Big12 is clearly better then the Big10 that is for sure. I think both conferences have plent of talent and we will see how the season plays out on who is better this particular year. Still too early to tell. Heck, Purdue might win the Big 10 this year not Michigan, Ohio St, or Iowa. I hope not!! I do think UT is for real though. Anybody that can win at the shoe is for real.

You will notice I did not offer an opinion on which conference is better. I just merely pointed out the folly of the sports media's ways.

[pack0808]

You will notice I did not offer an opinion on which conference is better. I just merely pointed out the folly of the sports media's ways.


Oh i agree, The last 2 previous years the so called experts were saying the Big 10 was down and they go and have great years and this year they are saying they are the best along with the SEC and the top 3 in the Big10 all lost last week. Just proves that they are not really experts and nobody really knows until the season is played out.

[PantherStang84]

My point exactly!

[Colgar]

in short, get back to your business. where in my words do you read problems? we had a circus last year, that garnered no extra funds, and was a potential distraction. after the season, let's revisit the trip and its effects. if they stay within 2 tds of trinity this week, i'll be severely impressed. let's leave ohio to themselves and keep texas hs football to ourselves as much as possible.

I was wondering if this was the problem. So, your real objection to Tyler Lee playing out of state was that it somehow diminishes SLC's accomplishments if the myths about "Texas Football" are exposed?

Forums are for opinions but why be so critical if the Tyler Lee administration decides to do something that the SLC administration decided against?

What is wrong with a little circus and drama from time-to-time? Think out of the box once in awhile. Expand your horizons. Try something different.

As I have said 100 times the intrastate game was not the referendum that many posters made it out to be. Several younger posters on this board made some outrageous statements out of state pride and repainted the picture when reality didn't match illusions.

It is my belief, Dragonsdaddy, your objections to an event that is over and done with are a more sophisticated response caused by the same state pride hit.

Many posters have said that there are probably 20 teams that could beat Colerain. I believe that. There are 10-15 that I can think of that could beat Colerain on any given night in Ohio and maybe 10 in Cincinnati alone.

And what of funds, do we just run high school football to make money? No!

Most programs lose money. We run them so kids can have competitive experiences and if we have to pay for it, we somehow do it. The UIL needs to update their thinking. These games are the new reality, like it or not. Either find a way to make it work to your advantage or go the way of the dinosaur.

That is my opinion, like it or not.

[Texasfrog]

I was wondering if this was the problem. So, your real objection to Tyler Lee playing out of state was that it somehow diminishes SLC's accomplishments if the myths about "Texas Football" are exposed?

Forums are for opinions but why be so critical if the Tyler Lee administration decides to do something that the SLC administration decided against?

What is wrong with a little circus and drama from time-to-time? Think out of the box once in awhile. Expand your horizons. Try something different.

As I have said 100 times the intrastate game was not the referendum that many posters made it out to be. Several younger posters on this board made some outrageous statements out of state pride and repainted the picture when reality didn't match illusions.

It is my belief, Dragonsdaddy, your objections to an event that is over and done with are a more sophisticated response caused by the same state pride hit.

Many posters have said that there are probably 20 teams that could beat Colerain. I believe that. There are 10-15 that I can think of that could beat Colerain on any given night in Ohio and maybe 10 in Cincinnati alone.

And what of funds, do we just run high school football to make money? No!

Most programs lose money. We run them so kids can have competitive experiences and if we have to pay for it, we somehow do it. The UIL needs to update their thinking. These games are the new reality, like it or not. Either find a way to make it work to your advantage or go the way of the dinosaur.

That is my opinion, like it or not.

When we see some Ohio teams travel to Texas then start pounding you chest ok. Name me one "Ohio" team that has come to Texas ?? That's what I thought "ZERO."

In fact name me "one" Ohio teams that has traveled over a 1,000 miles to play someone ? These games are the reality huh ?? Name the Ohio team that has traveled that far.

This aint about REL vs Colerain.. This is about long-distance travel for High school teams. I'm not talking about going to Kentucky or PA. I'm talking about going to Texas, California, Florida and having to get on airplanes and bringing the support elements and ect for the High school.

I want to hear it.. Who in Ohio has done that ???

As far is you claiming 10 schools in Cincin city can beat Colerain right now. Well, excuse me while I laugh and cough. I'll tend to agree with a few of the level headed Ohio posters that I've seen on a few occasion that say the Colerain looks like their ready to put away just about everybody in Ohio now.

We'll let the "SEASONS" play out and let that be the truth ok. What you say or I say doesnt really matter. Let the "SEASONS" tell us all.

But, go ahead and show me the Ohio High school teams that have made this huge cross country trips since you claim that its the reality and its just another day at the office type of stuff. I want to see them..... ;)

[dragonsdaddy]

man, you need to back away from the cereal box psychology and reread my posts. couldn't care less whether tlee plays all their non-district games on the road. their success or failure means less than nothing to me, or in reality to anyone outside of the rose city. some(not moi) feel the need to prove superiority of texas hs football using a contrived, non objective event like this circus act. that's actually too harsh a description, but still relevent. slc will be striving for one purpose in the non-district games- to prepare to win district. coach owens may look back on this game and decide it turned this team into the killers he was looking for, or not. it is too early too tell. i trust him to do what he thinks is best. i don't think he tried to get my opinion anyway. now if that doesn't satisfy all the ohioans still looking for credibility, i'm sure i don't care.

[Colgar]

Are you saying Texas teams can only win in Texas? Once they pass the borders they forget how to play? Is 1,200 miles the barrier or 800 or 500 or 250? Do they need bands playing, cheerleaders and friendly fans? Some of these boys will be defending the country overseas, farther than 1,200 miles in a few years. There are boys in Iraq far away from bands and cheerleaders and their parents that played Texas high school football three years ago that are doing a whale of a job at something much more important than football. So traveling 1,200 miles to play a game doesn't compare.

Come on man, the fact is you shot off your mouth and now find every excuse not to admit that you were wrong. Do you want to see your posts because unlike Concha, I'm one to dig them up?

Colerain may very well go undefeated the rest of the season and win the state but there are still teams in this area that can beat them and one already has.

I know that Colerain kids would love to come to Dallas or Houston or Lufkin or Tyler to play.

Like someone pointed out to me earlier in this thread it is for opinions but if you offer one, be prepared to defend it and be called on it.

Texasfrog, did you ever play the game? It is very hard for me to believe that you have with how little you know about competition and football.

[smoaky]

While talking to a few big-time Class 5-A programs prior to the Lee-Colerain game, it was split 50-50 on who would or wouldn't accept this game.

Most said they would for the experience, especially since all costs were covered, and there was probably still a little revenue left afterwards.

Most also said their biggest concern would be trying to keep their players focused for such a long time...especially when the team gets away from their every day routine.

It's one thing to travel to a state championship, spend the night in a hotel in a city in Texas, compared to traveling however far to another state in a different section of the country.

Another concern was one I've always said.

These games are almost always based on what teams have done, but rarely if ever a game between the teams who actually deserve to play in this game.

That same philosophy is no different than if Southlake Carroll played Tyler Lee somewhere this season in a non-district game, whether it was played in Southlake, Tyler, Texas Stadium or Waco.

That one game wouldn't prove anything about whether SLC or Lee were the best of the two state championship teams from a year ago.

It would be a highly-anticipated game, but wouldn't prove anything about last season.

I've talked with both coaches, Owens and Colerain's Kerry Coombs, and I doubt if either coach would ever take on this game again.

It was fun while it lasted...but I think it took a lot out of both teams.

Smoaky

[dragonsdaddy]

so smoaky, the coaches are intimating that my opinions weren't far off. zounds. i guess myopic porcines don't always starve.

[Favpack]

It's funny Colgar how you're all for Texas teams coming to your backyard - and you question why all aren't in your camp. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but didn't I read somewhere that Ohio teams aren't even allowed play outside of Ohio borders, or at the least, can't miss school for it.

Now, you're also questioning if there was any legitimate home field advantage playing in Ohio. I've gone on record 5+ times that Lee got whipped - so don't throw me in your dillusional world of Texas pride - but you're now speaking out of all three sides of your mouth my man.

Us dinosaurs that don't want to see hs kids flying all over the world, bleeding red all over our local school districts, are now old foagies? Lol - what a riot. Yeah, put me in that group. Regardless of the outcome - I said all along there was no way a game played in Ohio would prove much of anything - neither did the game between Chaminade and Lee.

A HS national champ is 100x more mythical than the joke we have in the NCAA right now - and those schools have BILLIONS in play money to make their point.

[Colgar]

man, you need to back away from the cereal box psychology and reread my posts. couldn't care less whether tlee plays all their non-district games on the road. their success or failure means less than nothing to me, or in reality to anyone outside of the rose city. some(not moi) feel the need to prove superiority of texas hs football using a contrived, non objective event like this circus act. that's actually too harsh a description, but still relevent. slc will be striving for one purpose in the non-district games- to prepare to win district. coach owens may look back on this game and decide it turned this team into the killers he was looking for, or not. it is too early too tell. i trust him to do what he thinks is best. i don't think he tried to get my opinion anyway. now if that doesn't satisfy all the ohioans still looking for credibility, i'm sure i don't care.


OK then if you don't care, why do you post so much about it, calling it a circus? If it really doesn't matter to you why have you come on three separate threads bemoaning the fact that it was done?

If I'm wrong tell me.

It was two teams from different states playing a game but you have some problem with it. Colerain needed the game. They needed a home game.

They would have much prefered to play one on their new field that they just spent $750,000 to upgrade, and couldn't find anyone that would come there. When they couldn't get anyone to come, they agreed to this game as long as they were guaranteed what they would make for a home game. They did it so they could pay their bills. So, a circus is either a waste of time, entertainment or a living depending on where you sit. If you're a peanut vendor you kind of need a circus. Some were entertained, you apparently were not.

I know Carroll was asked and Dodge said no. His perogative, no problem. Owens said yes, his perogative, so why the problem?

[raidercheerdad]

Are you saying Texas teams can only win in Texas? Once they pass the borders they forget how to play? Is 1,200 miles the barrier or 800 or 500 or 250? Do they need bands playing, cheerleaders and friendly fans? Some of these boys will be defending the country overseas, farther than 1,200 miles in a few years. There are boys in Iraq far away from bands and cheerleaders and their parents that played Texas high school football three years ago that are doing a whale of a job at something much more important than football. So traveling 1,200 miles to play a game doesn't compare.

Come on man, the fact is you shot off your mouth and now find every excuse not to admit that you were wrong. Do you want to see your posts because unlike Concha, I'm one to dig them up?

Colerain may very well go undefeated the rest of the season and win the state but there are still teams in this area that can beat them and one already has.

I know that Colerain kids would love to come to Dallas or Houston or Lufkin or Tyler to play.

Like someone pointed out to me earlier in this thread it is for opinions but if you offer one, be prepared to defend it and be called on it.

Texasfrog, did you ever play the game? It is very hard for me to believe that you have with how little you know about competition and football.

My question to you is have you ever played the game? Why does everybody(except you) call it a homefield ADVANTAGE? Las Vegas even gives approximately 7 points in the line for this. There must be something there! In addition to that, take away ALL visible means of support that helps get adrenaline flowing and kids (yes, 15-17 year old kids) pumped up at the game - ie - cheerleaders, band, drill team, and about 10,000 fans that usually drive the 100 - 200 miles for an in-state game, no pep rally the day of the game, no classes to go to for Thursday and Friday, no normalcy to anything they've done the week of the game or at the game, and I think you can see this has nothing to do with Iraq. That may be the most insane comment I've ever heard anyone make on any site period. All that to say, we knew up front that all this would be the case and still thought we could overcome it. We didn't, but I'll bet if the offer is ever reciprocated, there will be a different story to tell! Play us in our house w/10-15,000 fans, band blowing your ears off, cheers supporting us, and all that goes with it, then brag when you win!

[dragonsdaddy]

man, you need to reunderstand my issues with tlee and this game don't exist. my opinion is that it wasn't in tlee's best interest stop right past my fingertips. having a personal interest in a similar event last year, my calling it a circus keeps me from calling it what it really was, and gives me the insight into this game that few on this board have. why do you persist in putting words in my posts and ideas behind them that don't exist? you don't seem to want to take yes for an answer.

i don't think any less of texas hs football based on the outcome, or any more of ohio either. exhibition games are what they are. some were entertained. i had better things to do, and it wasn't made available for us to watch anyway. who cares. even the horrible game we saw here friday night was better because i was concerned with the outcome, than this game, to me anyway. good luck the rest of the way.

[PantherStang84]

Colerain needed the game. They needed a home game.

They would have much prefered to play one on their new field that they just spent $750,000 to upgrade, and couldn't find anyone that would come there.

Give it a rest Colgar. It was a game that will have zero effect on the State Championships of either state. It meant nothing, zip, zero, nada!

Stay in Cincy and follow your favorite teams and we will follow ours. Geez, this whole concept of out of state teams playing each other just will not die!

BTW...The top programs in Texas have no problems filling up their schedules. If a game slot gets open, there are plenty of teams here in Texas willing to line up and take a shot.

I'm sure Lufkin's open dates will get filled shortly after the Christmas break if not sooner. :D

[Colgar]

It's funny Colgar how you're all for Texas teams coming to your backyard - and you question why all aren't in your camp. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but didn't I read somewhere that Ohio teams aren't even allowed play outside of Ohio borders, or at the least, can't miss school for it.

Now, you're also questioning if there was any legitimate home field advantage playing in Ohio. I've gone on record 5+ times that Lee got whipped - so don't throw me in your dillusional world of Texas pride - but you're now speaking out of all three sides of your mouth my man.

Us dinosaurs that don't want to see hs kids flying all over the world, bleeding red all over our local school districts, are now old foagies? Lol - what a riot. Yeah, put me in that group. Regardless of the outcome - I said all along there was no way a game played in Ohio would prove much of anything - neither did the game between Chaminade and Lee.

A HS national champ is 100x more mythical than the joke we have in the NCAA right now - and those schools have BILLIONS in play money to make their point.

You are 100 percent right about the Ohio Athletic Association. They are limited to the contiguous states for out-of-state games with one exemption for the entire athletic department and then they are not allowed to miss a day of school to do it. Most schools use this to play in Holiday basketball tournaments.

It is in effect for monetary and academic reasons. I also am opposed to schools flying all over the country and draining funds from the athletic departments. But why deny kids an experience if a company like McDonalds or Disney is willing to eliminate those concerns. Trust me there are many kids that would love a chance to come to Texas and play any of your teams.

The problem with old foagies and I'm one of them is that once the problem is removed and there is no more practical reason to prevent it from happening, we invent reasons why it should never be allowed.

As a 15-year old I would have loved to play a game in Texas, to travel there, get away from home for a weekend, see how the rest of the country lives. As a 52-year old, I want my children to have that chance. What is wrong with that?

The problem is that the well meaning OHSAA has created a situation with its highly profitable playoff system that causes scheduling difficulties for the better football programs in the state. Football is the only sport in the state that does not allow all the teams to compete. They use a point system and teams avoid the big private schools and Colerain because it adversly affects its playoff chances. And the well meaning UIL won't allow it to be televised for the mistaken fear that Texans wouldn't see there home teams.

Would any of you stay home to watch Lee and Colerain, when your local team was playing?

As for a home field advantage, sure it was for Colerain. Was it any more of a handicap for Lee than driving 2 1/2 hours to Waco? You tell me. Hopefully, some of Lee's seniors will experience a college road game in a couple years. What's the difference?

[dragonsdaddy]

if the event didn't distract from what, at least in this neighborhood, is the real goal of non-district games, and made some green besides, everyone would be for it. having a state ring beats 15 minutes of espn-u fame all to heck, imo. and per some rumors going around both coaches are rethinking ever doing this sort of thing again, probably for the same reasons. if as might be the case, both teams are somewhat less well prepared for district play because of this game, then they will have been sold an estate in never-never land.

[Colgar]

My question to you is have you ever played the game? Why does everybody(except you) call it a homefield ADVANTAGE? Las Vegas even gives approximately 7 points in the line for this. There must be something there! In addition to that, take away ALL visible means of support that helps get adrenaline flowing and kids (yes, 15-17 year old kids) pumped up at the game - ie - cheerleaders, band, drill team, and about 10,000 fans that usually drive the 100 - 200 miles for an in-state game, no pep rally the day of the game, no classes to go to for Thursday and Friday, no normalcy to anything they've done the week of the game or at the game, and I think you can see this has nothing to do with Iraq. That may be the most insane comment I've ever heard anyone make on any site period. All that to say, we knew up front that all this would be the case and still thought we could overcome it. We didn't, but I'll bet if the offer is ever reciprocated, there will be a different story to tell! Play us in our house w/10-15,000 fans, band blowing your ears off, cheers supporting us, and all that goes with it, then brag when you win!

Yes, I did. I played at Colerain 1969-71. I played at Eastern Kentucky University after that.

Colerain had a home field advantage, albeit slight because it wasn't its home field, their little band couldn't blow anyone's ears off.

You miss my point. The point is that there is always adversity. One of the lessons to learn in competion is overcoming adversity, overcoming odds.

You insult Lee's players when you make such lame excuses for them. You do nothing to help prepare them for the next few years in life, if you allow them self-pity for traveling 1,200 miles to play a football game, when in two or three years they may be asked to do something far more difficult, like going to Iraq.

Give them credit for accepting a challenge. They have nothing to be ashamed of. They were getting a rare experience and trying to win a football game. They didn't win but they learned what it takes, how difficult it really is.

You think this road trip was rough. My first trip at Eastern Kentucky was murder. We were fodder for Pittsburgh at Pitt. Remember Tony Dorsett. I do. The trip was long, there were no friendly faces anywhere, if there was a band playing, I sure didn't hear it.

We played, got our butts kicked and road a bus home. The Eastern got a big payday to run its program. Welcome to the real world. I went home one weekend after the season and told my buddy what I had been through and thought about how rough it was until he told me about his road trip.....Vietnam.

Stop making excuses for these kids. Let them grow up.

I am not bragging but I am definitly not buying any of your excuses.

[dragonsdaddy]

while life will definitely throw obstacles and even road blocks at these kids soon enough, do you honestly believe you would have been better prepared for a pitt-stomping, or anything else for that matter had you been "given" the opportunity to travel half way across the country as a 16 year old and see and do things that you'll likely never see and do again? hs football, at least in texas is still about the last bastion of purity(though not for long now that espndoras box has been opened) in the sports world. excuse me if i want to preserve the best thing that'll ever happen to 98% of these kids. imo, these kids would have been better served playing a local game, thus keeping their rhythms and their habits intact. for the few whole play big-time collegiate football, the rude joke that is called amateurism will hammer them soon enough. let these kids be kids one more year anyway.

[bullrock]

Can we get a lock with no key here admin's??

[LPanther]

However, I did and still take issue with the following comment...
"I said Colerain could play with Longview, Lufkin, or John Tyler…and that was more reference to their style, physicality, and talent than anything else."
My point is the above comment is pure speculation and theory and nothing more.

PantherStang84,
I'm not sure why you have a problem with this statement. This was not a statement made on "pure speculation". "Pure speculation" would be a comment made by someone speaking about a subject who had no knowledge of it......more or less a guess. This was a statement made by a knowledgable football person about a team he witnessed play in person, as to how they might match up against some East Texas schools whose style of play he has witnessed for years.

I'm glad Smoaky made the statement. Having not had the opportunity to see the TL/Colerain game on TV, I don't know how they stack up to Texas teams. If Smoaky says Colerain can play with the Texas teams, that gives me a better mental image of how good they are. That doesn't mean I think that they would beat them, or vice versa, but that the games would be competitve and hard fought.

I have no problem with "speculation", as you call it............."educated statements" as I call it. People get paid a lot of money to give their opinions about many things, and about football in particular.

I'll make an "educated statement" right now based on having seen E. Trinity play two games, and based on the comparitive scores from Tyler Lee's games. Trinity will win this game by three td's or more. Their backfield trio is exceptional, and they will be operating behind a very good OL. If TL stays close, I think it will be because of turnovers.

[Colgar]

while life will definitely throw obstacles and even road blocks at these kids soon enough, do you honestly believe you would have been better prepared for a pitt-stomping, or anything else for that matter had you been "given" the opportunity to travel half way across the country as a 16 year old and see and do things that you'll likely never see and do again? hs football, at least in texas is still about the last bastion of purity(though not for long now that espndoras box has been opened) in the sports world. excuse me if i want to preserve the best thing that'll ever happen to 98% of these kids. imo, these kids would have been better served playing a local game, thus keeping their rhythms and their habits intact. for the few whole play big-time collegiate football, the rude joke that is called amateurism will hammer them soon enough. let these kids be kids one more year anyway.

It took awhile but I see what your point is now.

That same opinion is prevalent in Ohio. I know Coombs had trepidation going into the game for many of the same reasons that you stated. I see your point now but I still must disagree to this extent.

Winning state championship is a goal for sure.

After be an alumus and fan of the team that finally won one, I still believe the main purpose of high school athletics is not monetary or all about championship.

It is about challenges and facing competition and dealing with winning and losing, success and failure. Most of the kids on Tyler Lee and Colerain will be playing their last organized football game ever.

If traveling for an out of state football game teaches them that there is a much bigger world out there than they realize, that lesson is more important than a ring for winning a state title in my opinion.

Why are your non-district games even scheduled, if all they're for is to prepare for district play? Why not just hop into district play? Why play "exhibitions" even in state if that's all they're for?

Another thing, why as a 52-year old do I come on these boards and argue with teenagers like Texasfrog or Wide etc. They also need to learn that there is a big world beyond their neighborhoods. They need to know what most of you older posters do that football is played all over the country and they just might not be the center of the world.

As for ESPN-U and high school football on TV, you are right, for good or evil it is here to stay, like a lot of other changes that have happened in high school sports. When I played in Ohio we didn't even have a playoff system.

Some of our parents objected to holding statewide playoffs for many of the same reasons you have about interstate games and TV. Why do we need to play teams from Cleveland when there are plenty of teams to play here? Isn't a 10-game season enough? Why do they need to play for a title just vote on it like we always have?

My parents were wrong. Kids are excited about the playoffs. They were excited about playing on TV. Please find me a kid on Tyler Lee that did not want to make that trip. If you can find one kid that did not want to play that game, maybe I can buy into what your selling.

I hate to break it to you but change is coming, like it or not, you can either resist it or try to find the positives in it. I choose to do the later.

[Colgar]

Can we get a lock with no key here admin's??


Why? Because people are engaged in honest disagreement. How myopic is that? If you don't like the subject or the way its conducted, move on. We are making some progress here.

[Colgar]

PantherStang84,
I'm not sure why you have a problem with this statement. This was not a statement made on "pure speculation". "Pure speculation" would be a comment made by someone speaking about a subject who had no knowledge of it......more or less a guess. This was a statement made by a knowledgable football person about a team he witnessed play in person, as to how they might match up against some East Texas schools whose style of play he has witnessed for years.

I'm glad Smoaky made the statement. Having not had the opportunity to see the TL/Colerain game on TV, I don't know how they stack up to Texas teams. If Smoaky says Colerain can play with the Texas teams, that gives me a better mental image of how good they are. That doesn't mean I think that they would beat them, or vice versa, but that the games would be competitve and hard fought.

I have no problem with "speculation", as you call it............."educated statements" as I call it. People get paid a lot of money to give their opinions about many things, and about football in particular.

I'll make an "educated statement" right now based on having seen E. Trinity play two games, and based on the comparitive scores from Tyler Lee's games. Trinity will win this game by three td's or more. Their backfield trio is exceptional, and they will be operating behind a very good OL. If TL stays close, I think it will be because of turnovers.

Well put. Just because predictions are wrong sometimes doesn't make them worthless. As long as when proven wrong, the "experts" admits it.

Nothing wrong with a little insight.

[sehs95]

hs football, at least in texas is still about the last bastion of purity(though not for long now that espndoras box has been opened) in the sports world. excuse me if i want to preserve the best thing that'll ever happen to 98% of these kids. imo, these kids would have been better served playing a local game, thus keeping their rhythms and their habits intact. for the few whole play big-time collegiate football, the rude joke that is called amateurism will hammer them soon enough. let these kids be kids one more year anyway.

That's sounds funny coming from a Texan. Texas is widely regarded as having their priorities firmly out of whack, moreso than any other state, when it comes to HS football. Bidding wars for coaches and outrageous salaries. The multi-million dollar stadium bonanza has become and Arms race or sorts as communities vie to outdo neighboring communities... Bigger stadiums, fancier weight room, air conditioned field houses... All the while, Texas schools continue to score well below national averages on proficiency scores. Most disturbing to me is that many (most?) Texas schools let kids take 4 years of Phys Ed, and kids are given football instruction year round. Spring practice. Here in the midwest (and every other place I know of besides Texas), Phys ed is 2 semesters in 4 years, and no football instruction.

[raidercheerdad]

That's sounds funny coming from a Texan. Texas is widely regarded as having their priorities firmly out of whack, moreso than any other state, when it comes to HS football. Bidding wars for coaches and outrageous salaries. The multi-million dollar stadium bonanza has become and Arms race or sorts as communities vie to outdo neighboring communities... Bigger stadiums, fancier weight room, air conditioned field houses... All the while, Texas schools continue to score well below national averages on proficiency scores. Most disturbing to me is that many (most?) Texas schools let kids take 4 years of Phys Ed, and kids are given football instruction year round. Spring practice. Here in the midwest (and every other place I know of besides Texas), Phys ed is 2 semesters in 4 years, and no football instruction.
I can't believe you left out indoor practice facilities that several schools now have!
I'm trying to find anything that substantiates your claim to Texas and their national proficiency scores. If you have something other than an Ohio rumor mill, I'd like to see it. As for not being able to use a legitimate sport to count as physical education, that's just ludicrous! I bet you'd be hard pressed to prove a point about outrageous salaries, also. I would be willing to bet that 98% of all Texas High School HEAD coaches make under $100,000 regardless of how many years of service they have.

[sehs95]

I can't believe you left out indoor practice facilities that several schools now have!
I'm trying to find anything that substantiates your claim to Texas and their national proficiency scores. If you have something other than an Ohio rumor mill, I'd like to see it. As for not being able to use a legitimate sport to count as physical education, that's just ludicrous! I bet you'd be hard pressed to prove a point about outrageous salaries, also. I would be willing to bet that 98% of all Texas High School HEAD coaches make under $100,000 regardless of how many years of service they have.

Your statement shows just how out of touch most Texans are. In basically every state but Texas, the job of head football coach pays between $4,000-$8,000 dollars a year. That is typically stacked on top of a teaching salary of $30,000-$50,000 per year. Football coaches making $100,000 per year is unheard of in 47 or 48 out of 50 states. The good folks in Texas figured out a way that they could outbid one another for marquee coaches. Let's call them "Administrators", hire them as AD/football coach, and that way we can pay them $100,000. Then they hire 2 or 3 assistant AD's to actually do the job of Athletic Director and the football coach coaches basically full time. The average teacher Salary in Texas is around $42,000 per year, while "just under $100,000" is considered pretty standard for a football coach. Those are some priorities all right!

coaches pay:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2004-10-05-spending-coaches_x.htm

test scores:
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/wednesday/metro_state_345185b2a58440a010c1.html

[Colgar]

Go get em Seh95. It is a lot of fun to be on your side for a change.

Not to mention the age old practice of holding kids back in the eighth grade so they are a year older as a senior.

[raidercheerdad]

Your statement shows just how out of touch most Texans are. In basically every state but Texas, the job of head football coach pays between $4,000-$8,000 dollars a year. That is typically stacked on top of a teaching salary of $30,000-$50,000 per year. Football coaches making $100,000 per year is unheard of in 47 or 48 out of 50 states. The good folks in Texas figured out a way that they could outbid one another for marquee coaches. Let's call them "Administrators", hire them as AD/football coach, and that way we can pay them $100,000. Then they hire 2 or 3 assistant AD's to actually do the job of Athletic Director and the football coach coaches basically full time. The average teacher Salary in Texas is around $42,000 per year, while "just under $100,000" is considered pretty standard for a football coach. Those are some priorities all right!

coaches pay:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2004-10-05-spending-coaches_x.htm

test scores:
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/wednesday/metro_state_345185b2a58440a010c1.html
That shows how out of touch you are with the information you think you have. I know that in Tyler, and this is public information, that Mike Owens has been teaching/coaching for well over 20 years and is making about $76,000! I guess that's just under $100,000 in Ohio. My brother, on the other hand, has been teaching/coaching for 24 years and is and has always been an assistant and with the teaching salary and coaching stipend surpassed the $50,000 mark this year. Coach Owens is the HEAD coach of a very successful program. I used the $100,000 figure because I've heard of a couple of programs that pay their HEAD coach/Athletic Director that much. In that case, he is an administrator and is responsible, not only for the football program and all that encompasses, but also for the budgets and overseeing of ALL athletic programs within the district. In all these situations, to my knowledge, the Principal and Superintendent of schools have to make more than the Head coach/AD. When you move here, and start paying taxes here, then advise us how we should spend our money.

[Colgar]

That shows how out of touch you are with the information you think you have. I know that in Tyler, and this is public information, that Mike Owens has been teaching/coaching for well over 20 years and is making about $76,000! I guess that's just under $100,000 in Ohio. My brother, on the other hand, has been teaching/coaching for 24 years and is and has always been an assistant and with the teaching salary and coaching stipend surpassed the $50,000 mark this year. Coach Owens is the HEAD coach of a very successful program. I used the $100,000 figure because I've heard of a couple of programs that pay their HEAD coach/Athletic Director that much. In that case, he is an administrator and is responsible, not only for the football program and all that encompasses, but also for the budgets and overseeing of ALL athletic programs within the district. In all these situations, to my knowledge, the Principal and Superintendent of schools have to make more than the Head coach/AD. When you move here, and start paying taxes here, then advise us how we should spend our money.

Thanks, Seh95 was getting information from a USA Today article. I read the same thing. I am glad that you set it straight. To those who wanted to close this thread, we just learned something here.

[SLCDad]

Your statement shows just how out of touch most Texans are. In basically every state but Texas, the job of head football coach pays between $4,000-$8,000 dollars a year. That is typically stacked on top of a teaching salary of $30,000-$50,000 per year. Football coaches making $100,000 per year is unheard of in 47 or 48 out of 50 states. The good folks in Texas figured out a way that they could outbid one another for marquee coaches. Let's call them "Administrators", hire them as AD/football coach, and that way we can pay them $100,000. Then they hire 2 or 3 assistant AD's to actually do the job of Athletic Director and the football coach coaches basically full time. The average teacher Salary in Texas is around $42,000 per year, while "just under $100,000" is considered pretty standard for a football coach. Those are some priorities all right!Anyone know what Todd Dodge makes? I know he is not one of the highest paid coaches around. I was thinking he makes in the $60Ks but I also know that the school board just voted him an $8K salary increase. Worth every penny and then some. A huge benefit to the school on the football field, in the classroom, and in the community. Money well spent.

[dragonsdaddy]

before this raise, he was in the bottom half of local coaches. many districts pay higher. our voted out moron-filled school board felt compelled to overpay instead another moron/ripoff artist masquerrading as a superintendant, and all his minions. he is here due to what slc has to offer besides money.

[Colgar]

Most of the dedicated coaches are in it for more than money. Good for Dodge.

Dragondad, I think we have the same school board that you voted out.

Another simalarity between the two states.

[DragonFan]

SLC is very glad to have coach Doge and Coach Dodge is very glad to have SLC. It is a very good relationship. The atmosphere of Southlake and the dedication that the parents have to the schools is something that not many places in this country have anymore. Dodge also gets lots of attention and payments from his coaching clinics and football camps. The school system allowes the use of the facilities for Dodge to be succsessfull. It is a win/win for all and shows a spirit of cooperation that both the athletic and academic minded people can show pride in. Southlake is a great place to live and raise a family because of all the involved people.

The business of running a school system like SLC is also a lot of work. There are a lot of people who have lots of oppions and nobody is Southlake is afraid to let their position be known. The school board has had to face a lot of very difficult decisions that were forced upon them due to misconduct from the previous administrations, and the growing pains of a growing communitiy. The good of the many far outwiegh the good of the one and as long as there is a spirit of cooperation then the many and the one can both benifit.

Southlake is the highest rated 5A (largest classification in Texas) shcool system in Texas as far as academic excelence as well as being one of the most respected athletic system around. That can only be accieved by deligents and hard work on everyones part. That is what makes Southlake so successfull.

[KT2000]

It never ceases to amaze me to see what some threads can turn into.

Sehs, you're brave, I'll give you that much. Only on the 'Net could someone attempt to tell a bunch of Texans what they know about their own state...and people call us cocky. I'm not going to waste my time destroying your theories.

Send Concha my regards.

Anyway, Smoaky got on here and said what he wanted and the thread spiraled completely off topic from there. If you have issues with one another take it to PMs or email because you won't be able to hijack anymore threads.