Why Are Judson Fan's Offended?

[SLCDad]

Over the last month I've posted statistics showing 1) all-time winningest programs, 2) highest winning percentages, 3) most play-off games played, 4) most victories, 5) longest winning streaks, etc. Most posters appreciate seeing the records and statistics. The posts have been informative and have generated some good discussion.

However, several Judson fans feel provoked and get upset when these records are posted. Fans from other schools don't get upset at all.

Why is that?

[dragons08]

i guess cause we say were the team of 5a or what ever you want to call it, and since they have more rings they feel offended?

[jrdaniel]

Most Judson fans have grown spoiled with the success enjoyed by the Rockets and feel they have the best team and program in the state. When you point out to them that they aren't the best at something, it stings a little. If you think Judson fans are the only ones that get upset then you haven't met an East Texas fan or a Little SWC fan. Go try saying that there are far more talented teams than Lufkin or far more historic teams that Permian and you will get the same from them. Judson regards themselves as the most successful and they measure that by the trophy case.

[lonny23]

Over the last month I've posted statistics showing 1) all-time winningest programs, 2) highest winning percentages, 3) most play-off games played, 4) most victories, 5) longest winning streaks, etc. Most posters appreciate seeing the records and statistics. The posts have been informative and have generated some good discussion.

However, several Judson fans feel provoked and get upset when these records are posted. Fans from other schools don't get upset at all.

Why is that?
I haven't really said much to you, but if you're asking for a critique, I must say that your posting style lends itself to much criticism. If you don't want to get a backlash from others, change your words. I can't blame people for firing back at you. I'm not picking on you, because I'll say the same thing about others.

[RedRage00]

Most Judson fans have grown spoiled with the success enjoyed by the Rockets and feel they have the best team and program in the state. When you point out to them that they aren't the best at something, it stings a little. If you think Judson fans are the only ones that get upset then you haven't met an East Texas fan or a Little SWC fan. Go try saying that there are far more talented teams than Lufkin or far more historic teams that Permian and you will get the same from them. Judson regards themselves as the most successful and they measure that by the trophy case.

I agree with that!

I got your back on this one Judson fans :cool:

[SLCDad]

I haven't really said much to you, but if you're asking for a critique, I must say that your posting style lends itself to much criticism. If you don't want to get a backlash from others, change your words. I can't blame people for firing back at you. I'm not picking on you, because I'll say the same thing about others.I'm glad to see the minimal backlash. Most comes from Judson fans. Fans from other schools typically make comments on the rankings, ask for the source, wonder why so and so isn't listed, etc.

Judson fans often believe they have the best football program in Texas. That is true by one measure - total of 5A championships. By all other measures (total wins, winning percentage, play-off games played, play-off victories, winning streaks, all-around athletics, etc., etc.) several other schools come out better. Since football is a game of inches and one play can change the out come of a game I believe that these other measures are much better indicators of the quality of a football program. They show a broader view of results over time.

[dragonsdaddy]

i 've got to disagree. from the start of 5a(80 i think), there are no teams that can favorably compare with the numbers coju has put up, in 5a. it is very difficult to poor-mouth 6 state titles, and numerous other long runs. the scoreboard and the record books are enough to convince most everyone who the best team since 1980 in 5a has been. if they aren't it is because you have ulterior motives.

[RedRage00]

i 've got to disagree. from the start of 5a(80 i think), there are no teams that can favorably compare with the numbers coju has put up, in 5a. it is very difficult to poor-mouth 6 state titles, and numerous other long runs. the scoreboard and the record books are enough to convince most everyone who the best team since 1980 in 5a has been. if they aren't it is because you have ulterior motives.


Good post dragonsdaddy. And I am not even from Judson :D

[SLCDad]

i 've got to disagree. from the start of 5a(80 i think), there are no teams that can favorably compare with the numbers coju has put up, in 5a. it is very difficult to poor-mouth 6 state titles, and numerous other long runs. the scoreboard and the record books are enough to convince most everyone who the best team since 1980 in 5a has been. if they aren't it is because you have ulterior motives.If you only take that specific slice of Texas football then I agree. If you take the broader view the numbers disagree. Favoring the broader view is not bad mouthing anyone. The facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. We all can pick the ones we favor. There are several teams that have won more games or won more playoff games or have a higher winning percentage. The motive is to show that there are other schools that compare more favorably than Judson depending on which measuring stick you prefer.

[dragonfootballfan]

If you only take that specific slice of Texas football then I agree. If you take the broader view the numbers disagree. Favoring the broader view is not bad mouthing anyone. The facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. We all can pick the ones we favor. There are several teams that have won more games or won more playoff games or have a higher winning percentage. The motive is to show that there are other schools that compare more favorably than Judson depending on which measuring stick you prefer.
yes but that is not in 5A. If you are comparing Texas football as a whole you have a point, but not just 5A

[Mr_Lucci]

i 've got to disagree. from the start of 5a(80 i think), there are no teams that can favorably compare with the numbers coju has put up, in 5a. it is very difficult to poor-mouth 6 state titles, and numerous other long runs. the scoreboard and the record books are enough to convince most everyone who the best team since 1980 in 5a has been. if they aren't it is because you have ulterior motives.

Classy post dragonsdaddy. I can see that not all the SLC fans are provokers. The title of this thread says it all for me and shows me that SLCDad has all the stylings of an arsonist. Just likes to throw things in the fire to see what happens. You know exactly what you are doing with your threads so don't act suprised when people jump on you. I think everyone in here knows how successful SLC has been as of late without you having to remind everyone everyone every damn day.

[implacable44]

well since this is probably directed at me specifically - I take offense because you post statistics with numbers from the sub 5a years of SLC. You have been 5a for three years and you want to be recognized as the best ever 5a program in the history of the state ? That is like Dwayne Wade jumping in and proclaiming himself the best player of all time in the NBA. - - It is insulting for a rookie 5a program to come into 5a and proclaim superiority - especially when judson doenst have a chance to play against you because of the div 1 and div 2 titles.

[mad_fan]

If you only take that specific slice of Texas football then I agree. If you take the broader view the numbers disagree. Favoring the broader view is not bad mouthing anyone. The facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. We all can pick the ones we favor. There are several teams that have won more games or won more playoff games or have a higher winning percentage. The motive is to show that there are other schools that compare more favorably than Judson depending on which measuring stick you prefer.

Apples and oranges...Facts are facts, but statistics are CREATED. Created from raw data, which is what you are doing slcdad. I spent any entire semester in a political science class doing statistic. What you are doing is EXACTLY the same thing we do with raw data in politics. It is the reason the Ds and Rs DONT agree on anything. It is the reason you watch FOX news and hear one truth about a subject and here a different TRUTH on CBS. You can be right as rain in your own mind and still be wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it is possible for people to believe you wrong. What I would say is that you need to work on your methodology. Then comparing apples to apples you may get a better response.

[SLCDad]

well since this is probably directed at me specifically - I take offense because you post statistics with numbers from the sub 5a years of SLC. You have been 5a for three years and you want to be recognized as the best ever 5a program in the history of the state ? That is like Dwayne Wade jumping in and proclaiming himself the best player of all time in the NBA. - - It is insulting for a rookie 5a program to come into 5a and proclaim superiority - especially when judson doenst have a chance to play against you because of the div 1 and div 2 titles.Implac not directed at you specifically my friend. I post stats for all teams not just SLC. Who said SLC was the best ever 5a program in the history of the state? Only the best 3 year run in 5A history.

It is also insulting when Judson fans automatically assume they are the undisputed king when other schools have won more gams, won more playoff games and have averaged longer play-off runs than Judson.

I started this thread because it seemed that only Judson fans take offense when looking at the broader view.

[implacable44]

which schools -- 5a schools have these statistics ? - say minimum of 150 games in 5a?

[RedRage00]

Who said SLC was the best ever 5a program in the history of the state? Only the best 3 year run in 5A history.



I think Midland Lee's 1998, 1999, and 2000 State Championships could be considered the best 3 year run in 5A history.

1998 (15-1)
1999 (15-0)
2000 (13-2)

They had more losses in that span, but they have 1 more state championship in that span too. Which is more important?

RR

[SLCDad]

Mr. Lucci posted this previously on another thread.All that matters are titles and 5-A titles at that. . . .If you take that view then you over look a few programs who have won more.

[implacable44]

well in that case Judson went 27 - 1 and 2 in 1992, 1993 with back to back state titles.

[SLCDad]

I think Midland Lee's 1998, 1999, and 2000 State Championships could be considered the best 3 year run in 5A history.

1998 (15-1)
1999 (15-0)
2000 (13-2)

They had more losses in that span, but they have 1 more state championship in that span too. Which is more important?

RRThanks for the honest rebuttal without being nasty. Good point on which all could debate.

[implacable44]

anyone that has taken statistics knows that you can distort statistics in any number of ways to fit your purpose.

[mad_fan]

at the risk of repeating myself...

If you only take that specific slice of Texas football then I agree. If you take the broader view the numbers disagree. Favoring the broader view is not bad mouthing anyone. The facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. We all can pick the ones we favor. There are several teams that have won more games or won more playoff games or have a higher winning percentage. The motive is to show that there are other schools that compare more favorably than Judson depending on which measuring stick you prefer.

Apples and oranges...Facts are facts, but statistics are CREATED. Created from raw data, which is what you are doing slcdad. I spent any entire semester in a political science class doing statistic. What you are doing is EXACTLY the same thing we do with raw data in politics. It is the reason the Ds and Rs DONT agree on anything. It is the reason you watch FOX news and hear one truth about a subject and here a different TRUTH on CBS. You can be right as rain in your own mind and still be wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it is possible for people to believe you wrong. What I would say is that you need to work on your methodology. Then comparing apples to apples you may get a better response.

[bubbacoach]

The number of championships is the most popular statistic to measure the success of your program. To have won the last three state championships is impressive and should make you the team of the 2000's, Judson the team of the 90's and so on. If Judson does not like SLC bragging about their team, then step up and win a couple more in the 2000's. You should not worry about what the other team has done. You just got to do your best and not sweat the rest.

[implacable44]

Judson has already won one div 1 state title in the '00 and SLC has 2.

[SLCDad]

which schools -- 5a schools have these statistics ? - say minimum of 150 games in 5a?I've posted this data already and we've already discussed it. You keep saying 5A only. I take the broader view and the posted data is for that view also.

[RedRage00]

Judson has already won one div 1 state title in the '00 and SLC has 2.

And Victoria has 0 :p :eek: :D

[lonny23]

I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I think of all schools:

Judson is 3rd in titles and that's a definite.
4th in winning %.
2nd or 3rd in playoff wins.
3rd in games scoring streak.

This shows that other teams out there have stats that compare to Judson, but they were done at lower levels and that's why Judson fans say we are the best.

Games won doesn't matter and neither does playoff appearances because they are padded by years and Judson has only been around since 1962.

[implacable44]

Look Dad - You are posting statistics - which anyone with a slight degree of intelligence knows are easy to manipulate. i.e. - you post these numbers for x amount of years to benefit SLC who was playing 2a , 3a and 4a ball for the vast majority of those years while Judson was in 5a with some of the best teams Texas has ever seen and winning. I don't think it is a fair comparison. Like I said before - in 2010 or so we can drop a statistic on 5a results for teams from 2000 through 2010.

[dragonsdaddy]

lonny, games won doesn't matter because it doesn't prove my point. no matter where the lines are drawn, people can and will manipulate stats to prove themselves right. nothing will ever change this. makes for interesting arguments, but better saved for off-season.

[SLCDad]

Here is some of the data I'm referring to. Some posters got offended when I posted this. Based on this data we could debate . . .

TEXAS ALL-TIME WINNING PERCENTAGE (MINIMUM 450 GAMES)
1. Odessa Permian (427-114-13) .7824
2. Southlake Carroll (366-126-8) .7400
3. Highland Park (658-238-27 .7275
4. Converse Judson (363-149-10) .7049
5. Groveton (577-245-34 .6939
6. Temple (667-282-52) .6923
7. Amarillo (676-299-22) .6890
8. La Marque (465-211-17) .6832
9. Plano (665-296-47) .6830
10. Refugio (545-250-31) .6785

TOTAL VICTORIES SINCE 1986
(from Jerry's site which maintains only 19 years of data):
W-L-T Record, Total Games Played, Winning Percentage, Average Play-off Run
1 Southlake Carroll (222-41-1) 264 84.3% 3.9
2 Corpus Christi Calallen (216-35-1) 252 85.9% 3.3
3 Converse Judson (216-37-4) 257 84.8% 3.5
4 La Marque (214-44-2) 260 82.7% 3.7
5 Celina (208-36-2) 246 85.0% 2.9
6 Austin/Eanes Westlake (206-43-3) 252 82.3% 3.3
7 Refugio (205-46-4) 255 81.2% 3.4
8 Katy (202-47-0) 249 81.1% 3.1
9 Arlington Lamar (189-44-2) 235 80.9% 2.4
10 Stephenville (188-53-2) 243 77.8% 2.8
11 Italy (185-47-1) 233 79.6% 2.3
12 Valera Panther Creek (185-48-0) 233 79.4% 2.3
13 West Orange-Stark (182-42-1) 225 81.1% 1.8
14 Pilot Point (181-49-3) 233 78.3% 2.3
15 Gordon (180-42-2) 224 80.8% 1.8
16 Highland Park (179-50-2) 231 77.9% 2.2
17 Sealy (179-50-0) 229 78.2% 2.1
18 Sweetwater (176-52-2) 230 77.0% 2.1
19 Newton (176-53-2) 231 76.6% 2.2
20 Alto (175-53-0) 228 76.8% 2.0
21 Commerce (175-58-4) 237 74.7% 2.5
22 Cuero (175-61-2) 238 73.9% 2.5
23 Houston Yates (173-52-3) 228 76.5% 2.0
24 Bartlett (173-57-3) 233 74.9% 2.3
25 Midland Lee (172-52-5) 229 76.2% 2.1

[mad_fan]

Look Dad - You are posting statistics - which anyone with a slight degree of intelligence knows are easy to manipulate. i.e. - you post these numbers for x amount of years to benefit SLC who was playing 2a , 3a and 4a ball for the vast majority of those years while Judson was in 5a with some of the best teams Texas has ever seen and winning. I don't think it is a fair comparison. Like I said before - in 2010 or so we can drop a statistic on 5a results for teams from 2000 through 2010.

Spoken (written) like the most successful field general in pro football history, with five world championships from 1961-67, Bart Starr. Ofcourse, SLCDAD wouldnt count all of those...not Super Bowls.

[SLCDad]

Look Dad - You are posting statistics - which anyone with a slight degree of intelligence knows are easy to manipulate. i.e. - you post these numbers for x amount of years to benefit SLC who was playing 2a , 3a and 4a ball for the vast majority of those years while Judson was in 5a with some of the best teams Texas has ever seen and winning. I don't think it is a fair comparison. Like I said before - in 2010 or so we can drop a statistic on 5a results for teams from 2000 through 2010.
Nope. I just posted the total results where I found them. I did no manipulation whatsoever.

[implacable44]

the statistics themselves are misleading. - 3a, 4a competition for SLC with permian and Judson having 5a competition for just about the entire span of your statistics - How can you not see the "apples to oranges" comparison you are making - I don't even know if it can be apples to oranges because those are both fruits - it is more like apples to green beans or apples to fruit roll ups with fruit additives.. You can't compare 3a ball to 5a ball - it doesnt work and if you can't understand that then I guess it is a lost cause. Funny thing - I bet if SLC was not in the top 5 - you wouldn't have even bothered to post those statistics -- makes you wonder huh ?>

[SLCDad]

Look Dad - You are posting statistics - which anyone with a slight degree of intelligence knows are easy to manipulate. i.e. - you post these numbers for x amount of years to benefit SLC who was playing 2a , 3a and 4a ball for the vast majority of those years while Judson was in 5a with some of the best teams Texas has ever seen and winning. I don't think it is a fair comparison. Like I said before - in 2010 or so we can drop a statistic on 5a results for teams from 2000 through 2010.Like I said, I didn't manipulte the data at all. I'd love to have the same numbers for all time. Do you have them?

I COULD argue that Judson fans want to exclude the years when they were in 2a, 3a or 4a because they were losers back then. I COULD also argue that these were the only years when Judson was competing against schools their same size. Many of Judson's 5a victories came when they were much, much bigger than most 5a schools, often twice as big or more.

[SLCDad]

the statistics themselves are misleading. - 3a, 4a competition for SLC with permian and Judson having 5a competition for just about the entire span of your statistics - How can you not see the "apples to oranges" comparison you are making - I don't even know if it can be apples to oranges because those are both fruits - it is more like apples to green beans or apples to fruit roll ups with fruit additives.. You can't compare 3a ball to 5a ball - it doesnt work and if you can't understand that then I guess it is a lost cause. Funny thing - I bet if SLC was not in the top 5 - you wouldn't have even bothered to post those statistics -- makes you wonder huh ?>Apples to Oranges? I disagree. For example, Highland Park has one of the best football programs/traditions in the state of Texas. Under your assumption you would 100% ignore them because they are not 5A. Highland Park deserves better. That's why I think your argument is dead wrong.

[implacable44]

that isnt true - you better look at the numbers again and wasnt slc a fairly large 3a and 4a school ? I don't know I am just asking.

The fact that one school has a large student body does not translate to success on the football field and again that is a poor comparison to say one school having a large student body would be equivalent to bringing your 3a wins - your 4a wins into a 5a conversation.

i guess you just can't see the point. you choose to keep those green blinders on and listen to michael moore, al franken and CBS news - you probably still think Dan Rather was telling the truth about Bush and that the NY times is an honest publication.

[implacable44]

highland park does have one of the best programs in the state in 4a competition. if they came up to 5a then who knows if they could win games ?

[SLCDad]

i guess you just can't see the point. you choose to keep those green blinders on and listen to michael moore, al franken and CBS news - you probably still think Dan Rather was telling the truth about Bush and that the NY times is an honest publication.Implac you, Mr Lucci and others have resorted to name calling over and over again. Can't you make your point without lowering yourself to this level? If your point is sound it will stand on it's own without the childish attacks.

When you say stuff like this you lose credibility. It's beneath you. Don't do it.

[SLCDad]

highland park does have one of the best programs in the state in 4a competition. if they came up to 5a then who knows if they could win games ?You just made my point.

You totally discount Highland Park. They deserve better. They ARE one of the best football programs in Texas right where they are.

THAT is what I've been saying all along.

[implacable44]

dad - I didnt call you a name ? What name did I call you ? I compared you to a propaganda machine - I didn't call you a name.

furthermore - I did not discount Highland Park- How do you know what they would do if they came up to 5a? I know you can read the web address of this site - and it isn't . Texasfootball.com - it is 5a 5A 5A -- again I say 5A. Why is it 5a specific ? probably because you cant bring numbers in from a lower division and insinuate that they carry the same weight as 5a numbers - Has Oscar De LaHoya ever been mentioned as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time ? Classifications exist for a reason. - do the farm teams in baseball get mentioned as potential greatest teams of all time for baseball ? - did you hear someone say that the roanoke dazzle of the NBDL could be one of the greatest basketball teams of all time ?

[mad_fan]

Apples to Oranges? I disagree. For example, Highland Park has one of the best football programs/traditions in the state of Texas. Under your assumption you would 100% ignore them because they are not 5A. Highland Park deserves better. That's why I think your argument is dead wrong.

You choose to compare apples and oranges. And I'm still right. BTW, excellent cut and past job from jerry's site. you just borrowed somebodyelse's manipulated data because you liked what you saw. i went there and now i wonder why you go further with your analysis, sorry it was cut and paste wasnt it.

did you notice on jerry's site....

2004 Class 5A Strength of Schedule Final - Updated Dec. 25, 2004 Class 5A
1 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE MacArthur (2-8)
2 5A - 5 Denton Ryan (12-2)
3 5A - 26 Converse Judson (13-1)
4 5A - 15 Pflugerville (8-4)
5 5A - 5 Southlake Carroll (16-0)
6 5A - 12 Mesquite (6-7)
7 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Madison (8-4)
8 5A - 26 Spring Branch Smithson Valley (13-3)
9 5A - 3 Midland Lee (8-3)
10 5A - 12 Tyler Lee (12-3)
11 5A - 12 Mesquite Horn (1-9)
12 5A - 6 Coppell (4-6)
13 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Reagan (3-7)


I wonder if SCL always has an easier schedule? Shall we look at the years in question?

PS Note that 5 of the top 13 are in the 265 (by far the toughest in the state).

[implacable44]

no SLC dad - what you have been saying all along and what your primary puspose is with posting these ridiculous statistics is an attempt to glorify SLC and that is your only intent and purpose - not to stick up for the little man. As I questioned earlier - if SLC would have been #11 say - would you have bothered to post it ?

[SLCDad]

You choose to compare apples and oranges. And I'm still right. BTW, excellent cut and past job from jerry's site. you just borrowed somebodyelse's manipulated data because you liked what you saw. i went there and now i wonder why you go further with your analysis, sorry it was cut and paste wasnt it.

did you notice on jerry's site....

2004 Class 5A Strength of Schedule Final - Updated Dec. 25, 2004 Class 5A
1 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE MacArthur (2-8)
2 5A - 5 Denton Ryan (12-2)
3 5A - 26 Converse Judson (13-1)
4 5A - 15 Pflugerville (8-4)
5 5A - 5 Southlake Carroll (16-0)
6 5A - 12 Mesquite (6-7)
7 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Madison (8-4)
8 5A - 26 Spring Branch Smithson Valley (13-3)
9 5A - 3 Midland Lee (8-3)
10 5A - 12 Tyler Lee (12-3)
11 5A - 12 Mesquite Horn (1-9)
12 5A - 6 Coppell (4-6)
13 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Reagan (3-7)

SLC beat the best of the best in 2004. That was settled on the field. Your argument is not valid. Sorry.

[SLCDad]

no SLC dad - what you have been saying all along and what your primary puspose is with posting these ridiculous statistics is an attempt to glorify SLC and that is your only intent and purpose - not to stick up for the little man. As I questioned earlier - if SLC would have been #11 say - would you have bothered to post it ?Why are you discussing hypotheticals???? I won't.

[dragonsdaddy]

You choose to compare apples and oranges. And I'm still right. BTW, excellent cut and past job from jerry's site. you just borrowed somebodyelse's manipulated data because you liked what you saw. i went there and now i wonder why you go further with your analysis, sorry it was cut and paste wasnt it.

did you notice on jerry's site....

2004 Class 5A Strength of Schedule Final - Updated Dec. 25, 2004 Class 5A
1 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE MacArthur (2-8)
2 5A - 5 Denton Ryan (12-2)
3 5A - 26 Converse Judson (13-1)
4 5A - 15 Pflugerville (8-4)
5 5A - 5 Southlake Carroll (16-0)
6 5A - 12 Mesquite (6-7)
7 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Madison (8-4)
8 5A - 26 Spring Branch Smithson Valley (13-3)
9 5A - 3 Midland Lee (8-3)
10 5A - 12 Tyler Lee (12-3)
11 5A - 12 Mesquite Horn (1-9)
12 5A - 6 Coppell (4-6)
13 5A - 26 San Antonio/NE Reagan (3-7)


I wonder if SCL always has an easier schedule? Shall we look at the years in question?

PS Note that 5 of the top 13 are in the 265 (by far the toughest in the state).
not completely up to speed, on the sos data. does this list say that dr had the second hardest schedule in the state for 04? are you implying there is a whit's difference between 3 and 7 in this list? and if you are picking slc's sched as a cream puff, does this mean that the 260 teams behind them played no one at all. i see a 5th hardest schedule and am impressed, but then i'm used to us having the real easy roads we did back in the day, when teams simply handed us trophies without much of a fight. i guess when you play the hardest schedule, per some pollsters idea of strength, then going home early feels less painful. last i looked, there wasn't any astericks on the trophy. maybe i need to look closer. the uil needs to address this issue and give trophies for strength of schedule winners so their feelings won't be hurt.

[SLCDad]

I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I think of all schools:

Judson is 3rd in titles and that's a definite.
4th in winning %.
2nd or 3rd in playoff wins.
3rd in games scoring streak.

This shows that other teams out there have stats that compare to Judson, but they were done at lower levels and that's why Judson fans say we are the best.

Games won doesn't matter and neither does playoff appearances because they are padded by years and Judson has only been around since 1962.Remember, the playoff stats that I posted are since 1986 so they would be equal for everyone. Why 1986? Because that's all the data that Jerry's site included.

[KT2000]

There are very few sure things in this here world, but this one of them...

99% of the schools in this state would love to have the program that Converse Judson and Southlake Carroll do.

[SLCDad]

There are very few sure things in this here world, but this one of them...

99.8999999999% of the schools in this state would love to have the program that Converse Judson and Southlake Carroll do.and like Highland Park, and LaMarque, and Celina, and Stephenville, and Enis, and . . . . . .

[mad_fan]

not completely up to speed, on the sos data. does this list say that dr had the second hardest schedule in the state for 04? are you implying there is a whit's difference between 3 and 7 in this list? and if you are picking slc's sched as a cream puff, does this mean that the 260 teams behind them played no one at all. i see a 5th hardest schedule and am impressed, but then i'm used to us having the real easy roads we did back in the day, when teams simply handed us trophies without much of a fight. i guess when you play the hardest schedule, per some pollsters idea of strength, then going home early feels less painful. last i looked, there wasn't any astericks on the trophy. maybe i need to look closer. the uil needs to address this issue and give trophies for strength of schedule winners so their feelings won't be hurt.

i imply nothing, i simply cut and paste from the same site in question. the other cut/paste job showed total number of victories and IMPLIED that meant something. i simply ask the question "I wonder if SCL always has an easier schedule?" to make the point about apples to oranges, 4A to 5A, 2-8 MacArthur to 12-2 Denton-Ryan. The point is, nothing past, present or future can be inferred from any of these tables. Like SLCDad, I just fould one I liked and used for my own purpose...to get a plug in for the 265.

[dragonsdaddy]

so your query about slc's easier sked didn't imply anything. my bad then. just a little gunshy.

[implacable44]

It isn't fair to post from 1986 on because SLC was not 5a in 1986 - what were they 3a? and you want to bring those 3a wins into a 5a conversation - you cant compare a 5a program in wins to a 3a program - take that garbage and go talk about it with daddy who agrees with you and have lunch or something but everytime you post that crud on here I will refute it as what it is - GARBAGE. - dont bring your NBDL victories into a conversation about the NBA and try to pass those wins off as equal in caliber to my nba wins.

[implacable44]

no slc dad - he didnt name those school because when he built this board and named it - he did so with a purpose 5A TEXAS FOOTBALL.COM - FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS

and equal for eveyrone is 5a results skippy - -not 3a

[mad_fan]

so your query about slc's easier sked didn't imply anything. my bad then. just a little gunshy.

in no way shape or form...

i just hate statistics (that's a big part of what I do) when they are used in this way...It's like a MLB team including their farm team stats with theirs and saying it means this or that. Well it'll mean something to somebody, but I'll disagree with it.

[SLCDad]

no slc dad - he didnt name those school because when he built this board and named it - he did so with a purpose 5A TEXAS FOOTBALL.COM - FOCUS FOCUS FOCUSWhat does the name of this board have to do with the quality football that is played at those schools? No matter what the name of this board, those schools have outstanding football programs that most Texas schools (5A or otherwise) would love to have. But you totally discount them.

[implacable44]

no i dont discount them - i discount your use of 3a statistics in your propaganda machine to try and lift up SLC to the supreme program in the world. dont bring bogus statistics into the conversation - you asked why judson fans get upset ? - of course we get upset when you bring in your little 3a victories into a 5a conversation and try to make them equal -- they just aren't -- see all my previous analogies - farm team baseball -- nbdl -- etc. now keep those statistics to yourself or you and daddy can talk about them - whatever but everytime you post this garbage it will be corrected. I will serve as the fox news to your CBS propaganda.

[mad_fan]

so your query about slc's easier sked didn't imply anything. my bad then. just a little gunshy.

btw, i can see why you are gunshy, but i will not pull a six-shooter on you here. probably people around who've never even heard of san antonio madison.

[implacable44]

the only good thing to come out of madison is jerald reiner.

[mad_fan]

the only good thing to come out of madison is jerald reiner.

and me.

Q: Why Are Judson Fan's Offended?
A: SLCDAD

[raidercheerdad]

What do 2004's stats have to do with this year anyway? SLC is playing a soft schedule this year -- not to their own choosing -- just that some of the strong teams they have played in the past aren't that way this year. They didn't change the schedule, it's just that the competition isn't up the the level they have been in the past. It'll help SLC with their overall record, but it won't help them prepare for a tough playoff run.

[implacable44]

ha ha - just kidding mad fan - Jerald is a good friend of mine.

[SLCDad]

no i dont discount them - i discount your use of 3a statistics in your propaganda machine to try and lift up SLC to the supreme program in the world. dont bring bogus statistics into the conversation - you asked why judson fans get upset ? - of course we get upset when you bring in your little 3a victories into a 5a conversation and try to make them equal -- they just aren't -- see all my previous analogies - farm team baseball -- nbdl -- etc. now keep those statistics to yourself or you and daddy can talk about them - whatever but everytime you post this garbage it will be corrected. I will serve as the fox news to your CBS propaganda.Nope. Never. I'll make my case any way that I see fit.

[mad_fan]

sh** wasnt there that other guy...well baseball...norm

[implacable44]

of course you will - that is what you do - post propaganda - bring in your 3a vicotries and compare them to 5a football to try and elevate SLC - of course you will. I will correct you as long as you see fit to publish such nonsense.

[SLCDad]

Q: Why Are Judson Fan's Offended?
A: SLCDAD

I thought Lonny had a balanced view of this discussion. He didn't resort to childish stuff like a couple of others.

I think the point of this thread has been accomplished.

[raidercheerdad]

Nope. Never. I'll make my case any way that I see fit.

I hope you're more verbally tactful in your law practice! State you case, say no, and run like hell!

[implacable44]

I didn't resort to childish antics dad and I am offended that you would insinuate such. - I think the purpose was accomplished as well since I noticed all the folks who came rushing to your defense to help you build your arguement of 3a victories carrying the same weight as 5a victories. Thus I concur.

[mad_fan]

I thought Lonny had a balanced view of this discussion. He didn't resort to childish stuff like a couple of others.

I think the point of this thread has been accomplished.

It is MORE THAN accomplished...I'm NO JUDSON FAN and you OFFEND me.

[dragonsdaddy]

What do 2004's stats have to do with this year anyway? SLC is playing a soft schedule this year -- not to their own choosing -- just that some of the strong teams they have played in the past aren't that way this year. They didn't change the schedule, it's just that the competition isn't up the the level they have been in the past. It'll help SLC with their overall record, but it won't help them prepare for a tough playoff run.
that's an opinion not universally shared, btw. the slc sos in 02 was off the scale low, and we managed to survive pretty well. lp had a killer sked in 03 right up till they lost in the first round. preparation, like college is what you make it. the hardest schedule gives no one any tangible benefit, just more bumps and bruises.

i wonder if any team has ever won state with the hardest schedule? if not, what is the hardest sked by a state champion ever?

[dragonfootballfan]

The real problem here is that SLCDAD did not feel that he had to inform everyone that the stats that he posted were not just for 5A football and many people thought that since this site is about 5A football many thought that he was trying to mislead others. Right now I think that we need to drop this argument because I think it is ridiculous. SLCDAD probably thought that it was implied that the stats were taken from all classes and did not think that anyone would think that he was trying to use the statistics to promote SLC as the state's premier 5A program.

[implacable44]

no I am pretty sure he knew what the stats were from - ie 3a or 4a football and purposely published those stats with the intent to promote SLC as the best program in texas football. The intent is there and so is the manifestation with his comments after the fact -- all established.

[mad_fan]

The real problem here is that SLCDAD did not feel that he had to inform everyone that the stats that he posted were not just for 5A football and many people thought that since this site is about 5A football many thought that he was trying to mislead others. Right now I think that we need to drop this argument because I think it is ridiculous. SLCDAD probably thought that it was implied that the stats were taken from all classes and did not think that anyone would think that he was trying to use the statistics to promote SLC as the state's premier 5A program.

that and the title he gave the thread...coming from no judson fan.

[dragonfootballfan]

no I am pretty sure he knew what the stats were from - ie 3a or 4a football and purposely published those stats with the intent to promote SLC as the best program in texas football. The intent is there and so is the manifestation with his comments after the fact -- all established.
now the best program in Texas football would have included the 3a and 4a stats because Texas football is all encompassing. 5A is different from Texas football.

[implacable44]

exactly - which is why i didnt put the 5a in my post. - thank you!

[SLCDad]

The real problem here is that SLCDAD did not feel that he had to inform everyone that the stats that he posted were not just for 5A football and many people thought that since this site is about 5A football many thought that he was trying to mislead others. Right now I think that we need to drop this argument because I think it is ridiculous. SLCDAD probably thought that it was implied that the stats were taken from all classes and did not think that anyone would think that he was trying to use the statistics to promote SLC as the state's premier 5A program.The stats were posted and everyone knew what they were. In fact, the same stats were posted previously and we had a nice discussion about them. They were wins, losses, playoff games and win percentages. Not real complicated.

Some folks think that only 5A stats are valid. I think the total history of a program is also valid. That's the heart of the conflict here.

I was called a propaganda machine and the stats were called rubbish and garbage. It makes me laugh.

It just boils down to a difference of opinion in what is important when evaluating a football program. It's amazing how excited people get over such a simple issue.

[bullrock]

SLCDAD, I'm a Judson fan, but I don't get upset that you claim your program is better than ours. What might ire a few is the title of this thread. What did you think it would lead to? If you want to attract bees, use honey, not vinegar. Have a nice day.

[SLCDad]

SLCDAD, I'm a Judson fan, but I don't get upset that you claim your program is better than ours. What might ire a few is the title of this thread. What did you think it would lead to? If you want to attract bees, use honey, not vinegar. Have a nice day.You are right. However, there is a bit of truth in the title. Further, vinegar is much more interesting than honey.

[bullrock]

Doesn't getting knocked down a few times have any affect on your head man? Or will it take a TKO? The reason your team is so much better than most.....ya'll have more one-on-one than us big guys. You know...if you only have 800 boys to choose from and only 300 of them go out for football then that means you have a ratio of 800 to 40. Are you followin' me here. We on the other hand have 8'000 boys to choose from with only 300 going out for football, so our ratio is 8,000 to forty. Don't you get the logic here?
It's the same logic used by the private schools in education.

[bullrock]

P.S. That last post has about as much content and makes as much sense as this thread does.

[SLCDad]

The reason your team is so much better than most.....ya'll have more one-on-one than us big guys. You know...if you only have 800 boys to choose from and only 300 of them go out for football then that means you have a ratio of 800 to 40. Are you followin' me here. We on the other hand have 8'000 boys to choose from with only 300 going out for football, so our ratio is 8,000 to forty. Don't you get the logic here?
It's the same logic used by the private schools in education.Using this logic wouldn't the 1A teams be the best of all because they get the most one-on-one time? The fact is, the bigger the pool from which to choose talent, but better the talent will be. That's why we have classifications and that's why large schools have an advantage over smaller ones.

[dragonsdaddy]

Doesn't getting knocked down a few times have any affect on your head man? Or will it take a TKO? The reason your team is so much better than most.....ya'll have more one-on-one than us big guys. You know...if you only have 800 boys to choose from and only 300 of them go out for football then that means you have a ratio of 800 to 40. Are you followin' me here. We on the other hand have 8'000 boys to choose from with only 300 going out for football, so our ratio is 8,000 to forty. Don't you get the logic here?
It's the same logic used by the private schools in education.dangit bull, you had me there for a minute. i thought someone with less sense than active hair follicles had stolen your password.

[bullrock]

My follicles died a long time ago!

[dragonsdaddy]

mine too. thus the hat request?

[mad_fan]

I hope you're more verbally tactful in your law practice! State you case, say no, and run like hell!

holy smokes, he's a lawyer...or did you make that up?

[implacable44]

idiotic

[RedRage00]

We shouldn't be arguing over something like this.

We should take a poll on how many times Katy will appear on the front page of this site :p

LOL

[zippy]

That was without a doubt the best 3 year run in history. No doubt. win/loss prior, who cares. They won it all 3 in a row. Give me a choice of 3 losses, and 3 state championships to 1 loss and two, and I will take the 3 titles. Unless SLC wins 3 with less than 3 losses in a season, this is the best 3 year span in 5A


I think Midland Lee's 1998, 1999, and 2000 State Championships could be considered the best 3 year run in 5A history.

1998 (15-1)
1999 (15-0)
2000 (13-2)

They had more losses in that span, but they have 1 more state championship in that span too. Which is more important?

RR

[zippy]

I hope they live up to all the front page issues they get, and the rankings they get. This is a Katy based site right? Its expected, and I just hope they do well for all the publicity. I think these guys are fair, and if it were me, I would have had Trent Rios on the cover this week...


We shouldn't be arguing over something like this.

We should take a poll on how many times Katy will appear on the front page of this site :p

LOL