Greatest High School Football Team Ever!!!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

To decide the greatest team on any level in any sport you must:

1) Judge which decade of that sport is the greatest.
2) Then judge the team by the quality of their opponent(s).
3) And, finally, that team must stand above every great team of every decade.

The question is...

What is the Single Greatest Texas High School Football Team of All-Time??? (Example: 88' Carter)

This is a tough one...

:D Goodluck boys and girls!! And...play nice!!

[westlake]

i think either Odessa Permian or Judson, i dont have any stats but it seems like they have been to state the most.

[CCBoy]

i think either Odessa Permian or Judson, i dont have any stats but it seems like they have been to state the most.
The best football team of all time has been said over and over again by those that have seen the 1988 Carter Cowboys. You either hate them and have every excuse in the world why they shouln't be or you love them and recognize that there has never been a team like this on the football field ever. Off the field a few guys messed up but on the field without a doubt they are the best.

[dwistheman]

I would nominate the 88' Carter team also. Even though they lost 2 games during the season. I dont remember how many players received scholarship offers in 88' but the total for that roster was 27 D-1 offers.

[nsmustang]

2003 North Shore and very close behind 1985 Jack Yates. This includes dominating both sides of the ball-

[ThEgReAtOnE]

The problem I have is Dallas Carter, with Hill, Armstead, Washington, etc...was the greatest team of the 80's...no doubt.

But the 80's decade is a few notches below the teams of the 90's. (92-93' Converse Judson, 93-96' Stephenville, 94-97' La Marque, 95-99' Garland!!)

So the decade of the 90's rank higher than the 80's, but it's unfortunate that the Carter 88' team is in with the 80's.

I still haven't given my pick...this is hard...

:D

[bullrock]

I say the 1983 Daingerfield squad was as good as any if you talk about dominating both sides of the line. I think only one team scored on them that year and they set a national scoring record?? I'm sure somebody will look this up, but I do recall them being a dominant team.

[gutbuster]

1988 Dallas Carter Team. They were unreal!

[TheDuke]

2003 North Shore and very close behind 1985 Jack Yates. This includes dominating both sides of the ball-

I am going with 03 Shore!! Just look at the differnce in points through out ALL THE GAMES!! They DOMINATED!!
:eek:

[slcsportsfan]

I have no knowledge of the Midland Lee teams that won state 3 years in a row. What team was the best of those three. I would think that team would be up for a nominee.

[dada]

85 Yates.

[The Great Evaluator]

The 88 carter team actually had 1 tie. Duncanville in the last game of the season. I believe Duncanville might have had former Steeler Barry Foster on their team so its not as bad as it sounds. I saw th 85 Yates team and the 88 carter team and it would be like splitting hairs. The argument is similar to whose better Emmitt Smith or Barry Sanders. People will always be split on this issue. I did see a very well produced documentary on the 88 carter cowboys at http://www.insidehighschoolfootball.com that will give you good perspective on what they were like. I believe their senior class sent 17 kids on to division 1 programs. Jessie Armstead and Le'Shai Maston who both played in the NFL were as good as any defensive players I've ever seen but James Goode and Melvin Foster for Yates were every bit they're equal. Put both these teams on Mount Olympus alongside th 03 North Shore Team and the Midland Lee teams that had Cedric Benson. 89 Permian Panthers were up there too.

[KT2000]

This is the most dominant team (since 1980) that I've seen as far as points scored vs. surrendered.

1983 Daingerfield Tigers outscored their opponents 631-8 in 15 games.

[CCBoy]

I would nominate the 88' Carter team also. Even though they lost 2 games during the season. I dont remember how many players received scholarship offers in 88' but the total for that roster was 27 D-1 offers.
Carter didn't lose any games that season. They tied with Ducanville 17-17.

[rebelraider]

I would have to go with the 1989 Permian team in the 1980's and the 1999 Midland Lee team in the 1990's. Both were undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation at the end of the season.

Just my opinion.

RR

[farmerfan]

When you talk about the greatest of all time, then you have to look at every game. Carter had the tie with Duncanville, followed by close games against Marshall and Permian. If you take the 03 North Shore team then you will see no one came close to beating these guys, also the same goes for the 83 Dangerfield team. As far as Permian teams go, the 72 is the best of all time out of Odessa. Led by Joe Bob Bizzell, David Shipman and others they dominated everyone they played with the exception of Midland Lee. They outscored opponents 417-87 and won the state championship game 37-7. Also the 92 Carroll Dragons rank up there with the best ever, that was a team taht set the national scoring record and the national record for most yards gained in a season, truly a legendary team in the ranks of Texas Hs football.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

When you talk about the greatest of all time, then you have to look at every game. Carter had the tie with Duncanville, followed by close games against Marshall and Permian. If you take the 03 North Shore team then you will see no one came close to beating these guys, also the same goes for the 83 Dangerfield team. As far as Permian teams go, the 72 is the best of all time out of Odessa. Led by Joe Bob Bizzell, David Shipman and others they dominated everyone they played with the exception of Midland Lee. They outscored opponents 417-87 and won the state championship game 37-7. Also the 92 Carroll Dragons rank up there with the best ever, that was a team taht set the national scoring record and the national record for most yards gained in a season, truly a legendary team in the ranks of Texas Hs football.

Carter's opponents were far more dominant than Permian's 89' opponents.

THAT'S MY POINT!! When you're basing your argument, you're also saying Permian has to play and/or played as tough, if not tougher opponents that year. You'd be hard pressed, in 1988, to find tougher schools then that of Permian, Marshall and Duncanville!!

Personally, year in and year out, for probably the last 20 years, the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite. In these regions these teams have to play each other 3, 4 and 5 times during the regular season, let alone the playoffs!

So my great teams will come from these regions! :D

[dragonsdaddy]

since you've included other 4a schools of dominance, how about dr and ennis, who have been as dominant as anyone for several years now.

[westlake]

i was thinking more along the lines of program, not necessarily the individual teams, there are too many to name.

1996 Westlake Chaparrals were ok though. 2 1000 yd rushers Brett Robin and Jamie Tyler then there is Ryan Read catching 108 balls in one year, and then there is Drew Brees throwing for over 3000yds. Not to mention the "thumping" of Abeline Cooper 55-15

[westlake]

"The best winning percentage in the 1990s does not belong to Midland Lee, Stephenville or La Marque. It belongs to the Chaparrals from Austin Westlake, with a winning percentage of .898 (126-13-3) the last 10 years."

Not to mention 71 straight district wins, and we did go from the 1990 Austin Reagan game to the 1998 Killeen Ellison game with out loosing a regular season game.

We have had something like 14-16 cant remember exactly, straight playoff appearances.

and the 1994 Chaparral Offense put up the heighest single season numbers in 5A football history.

http://www.msasportsnetwork.com/articles.asp?region=3&id=45

This was written in 2000.

[farmerfan]

Carter's opponents were far more dominant than Permian's 89' opponents.

THAT'S MY POINT!! When you're basing your argument, you're also saying Permian has to play and/or played as tough, if not tougher opponents that year. You'd be hard pressed, in 1988, to find tougher schools then that of Permian, Marshall and Duncanville!!

Personally, year in and year out, for probably the last 20 years, the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite. In these regions these teams have to play each other 3, 4 and 5 times during the regular season, let alone the playoffs!



So my great teams will come from these regions! :D


That is why I said the 72 Permian team probably ranks as the greatest of all time coming from that school. I dont think you can say a team who had a tie and two other close games is the greatest of all time when you have other teams in this state who dominated every opponent in every week from start to finish. Carter did not do that.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

"The best winning percentage in the 1990s does not belong to Midland Lee, Stephenville or La Marque. It belongs to the Chaparrals from Austin Westlake, with a winning percentage of .898 (126-13-3) the last 10 years."

Not to mention 71 straight district wins, and we did go from the 1990 Austin Reagan game to the 1998 Killeen Ellison game with out loosing a regular season game.

We have had something like 14-16 cant remember exactly, straight playoff appearances.

and the 1994 Chaparral Offense put up the heighest single season numbers in 5A football history.

http://www.msasportsnetwork.com/articles.asp?region=3&id=45

This was written in 2000.

WHO DID YOU PLAY???

That's my point! If you dominate time and again, it may because everyone in your area is not very good, at all!!

The DFW and East TExas area are filled with strong districts. Austin isn't. Sorry, but that's the truth!

:D

[ThEgReAtOnE]

:cool: That is why I said the 72 Permian team probably ranks as the greatest of all time coming from that school. I dont think you can say a team who had a tie and two other close games is the greatest of all time when you have other teams in this state who dominated every opponent in every week from start to finish. Carter did not do that.

Farmer...Carter tied a very good Duncanville team led by Barry Foster. They beat superior teams like Marshall, Permian and Converse Judson...not to mention dominate Dallas schools.

Who did Permian beat?? Odessa High???...Midland High???

The level of your opponent, whether you lost or won, matters. Dominating in the WAC Conference isn't the same thing as dominating in the SEC.

[CCBoy]

That is why I said the 72 Permian team probably ranks as the greatest of all time coming from that school. I dont think you can say a team who had a tie and two other close games is the greatest of all time when you have other teams in this state who dominated every opponent in every week from start to finish. Carter did not do that.
1988 Carter team had a tough schedule and If you could actually witness some of these games and considering all they had to go through to even play they still went out and performed to a high level. 1988 was a tough year for anybody to win. Killeen was a big power along with Duncanville, Marshall, John Tyler, Converse Judson, and Odessa Permian. All of these teams could have easily been one of the best teams of all times. You don't have to dominate every game to be the best, but you have to know how to close a game and to win the big one. If you remember the late 80's and early 90's you know that all those teams were stocked with talent. I haven't even seen a Carter football team come close to the talent that they had and with the heart that they played. Jesse Armstead made some big plays but he wasn't the best defensive player on that team and as far as saying the talent and teams are better now days, it's BS because that Carter team was one of the first highschool teams that had a line that averaged 300lbs (bigger than most colleges). Look in the history books and see how many records in track are still held from that era (speed). It is just an opinion but I witnessed it first hand. 1988 era (Carter)

[ThEgReAtOnE]

1988 Carter team had a tough schedule and If you could actually witness some of these games and considering all they had to go through to even play they still went out and performed to a high level. 1988 was a tough year for anybody to win. Killeen was a big power along with Duncanville, Marshall, John Tyler, Converse Judson, and Odessa Permian. All of these teams could have easily been one of the best teams of all times. You don't have to dominate every game to be the best, but you have to know how to close a game and to win the big one. If you remember the late 80's and early 90's you know that all those teams were stocked with talent. I haven't even seen a Carter football team come close to the talent that they had and with the heart that they played. Jesse Armstead made some big plays but he wasn't the best defensive player on that team and as far as saying the talent and teams are better now days, it's BS because that Carter team was one of the first highschool teams that had a line that averaged 300lbs (bigger than most colleges). Look in the history books and see how many records in track are still held from that era (speed). It is just an opinion but I witnessed it first hand. 1988 era (Carter)

I witnessed it as well, and can honestly say that Carter team was built by athletic freaks. But I still say there are plenty of teams in the 90's that could play, and even beat, that Carter team. The size I saw Carter have, alot of high school teams had/have in the 90's and 00's. The speed as well. Lancaster's speed team of the 92-94 days remain the fastest track/football team ever. They were nothing but speed. No size...very little power...but plenty of speed.

Anyways, Carter was definitely the team of the 80's.

Sorry, but I've seen as good of teams since then.

[farmerfan]

It could be argued that the talent in the HS game today is at a all time high. What 03 North Shore did not be duplicated in a long time if ever. The thing about that Carter team is they did not dominate teams with far less talent, a 2 loss Permian team took them to the wire, and how far did Duncanville advance in the playoffs that year? You are greatly mistaken if you think that Carter team was the greatest of all time, 85 Yates and 03 North Shore along with the 2 Carroll teams of this decade who have won state titles all would have beat that Carter team. If I remember right, they did not blow out Plano East to open up the playoffs, and PESH was far from a great team during the 80's. Also what does it say when the 89 Permian team was clearly better than the 88 team, and Carter barely beat the 88 team? I have seen video of that Carter team, and it is in my opinion that they were far from one of the greatest teams ever. They may have been one of the most talented teams, but by no means should they be considered among one of the greatest.

In regards to who Permian beat, sure they beat Midland High and Odessa High, along with Abilene Cooper, and San Angelo, this all at a time when that West Texas district was the toughest in the state. They also beat Wichita Falls in the playoffs and pounded a undefeated Denton team. The 72 Permian Panthers are regarded by many of the mojo faithful as the best Permian team ever as well.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

It could be argued that the talent in the HS game today is at a all time high. What 03 North Shore did not be duplicated in a long time if ever. The thing about that Carter team is they did not dominate teams with far less talent, a 2 loss Permian team took them to the wire, and how far did Duncanville advance in the playoffs that year? You are greatly mistaken if you think that Carter team was the greatest of all time, 85 Yates and 03 North Shore along with the 2 Carroll teams of this decade who have won state titles all would have beat that Carter team. If I remember right, they did not blow out Plano East to open up the playoffs, and PESH was far from a great team during the 80's. Also what does it say when the 89 Permian team was clearly better than the 88 team, and Carter barely beat the 88 team? I have seen video of that Carter team, and it is in my opinion that they were far from one of the greatest teams ever. They may have been one of the most talented teams, but by no means should they be considered among one of the greatest.

In regards to who Permian beat, sure they beat Midland High and Odessa High, along with Abilene Cooper, and San Angelo, this all at a time when that West Texas district was the toughest in the state. They also beat Wichita Falls in the playoffs and pounded a undefeated Denton team. The 72 Permian Panthers are regarded by many of the mojo faithful as the best Permian team ever as well.

West Texas never has, nor will they ever be regarded as the premiere region. That's laughable! Permian 89' was good, but there are 20 other teams in the 90's and 00's that would beaten them...and the Carter 88' team. Listen I never said they were the greatest team ever...I just said they were the best of the 80's and believe they were. 86' Plano is up there, Permian 89' is there, Marshall 88', La Marque 86', Yates 85'.

The toughest in state...West Texas...yeah right!! If they, and you, think/thought that, they and you are the only ones!!

:D The most dominant region over the past 20 years are out of DFW and East Texas...

Stephenville
Denton Ryan
Southlake Carroll
Lewisville
Tyler Lee
Euless Trinity
Flower Mound
Carter
Plano
Marshall
South Oak Cliff
Tyler John Tyler
Longview
Garland
Mesquite
North Mesquite
Ennis
Waco University

...just to name a few.

All these teams are or have been power houses of the region 2 area...and all but 1 has won state.

Give me a list of West Texas power houses, over the last 20 years. Who do you have Permian and Lee. Oh, maybe Cooper here and there!!

:D

[rebelraider]

West Texas never has, nor will they ever be regarded as the premiere region. That's laughable! Permian 89' was good, but there are 20 other teams in the 90's and 00's that would beaten them...and the Carter 88' team. Listen I never said they were the greatest team ever...I just said they were the best of the 80's and believe they were. 86' Plano is up there, Permian 89' is there, Marshall 88', La Marque 86', Yates 85'.

The toughest in state...West Texas...yeah right!! If they, and you, think/thought that, they and you are the only ones!!

:D The most dominant region over the past 20 years are out of DFW and East Texas...

Stephenville
Denton Ryan
Southlake Carroll
Lewisville
Tyler Lee
Euless Trinity
Flower Mound
Carter
Plano
Marshall
South Oak Cliff
Tyler John Tyler
Longview
Garland
Mesquite
North Mesquite
Ennis
Waco University

...just to name a few.

All these teams are or have been power houses of the region 2 area...and all but 1 has won state.

Give me a list of West Texas power houses, over the last 20 years. Who do you have Permian and Lee. Oh, maybe Cooper here and there!!

:D


I don't think that 12 state title appearances and 6 state championships from one district (4-5A the little southwest conference) from 1980 - 1999 is too shabby.

I'd put our district (4-5A) record against any other district over the same period of time and be hard pressed to find one better.

Just my opinion.

RR

[zippy]

1990-2004

#1 Westlake 181-26-3 (.8690)
# 2 La Marque 184-29-0 (.8638)
La Marque had more wins, but a lower win %, in 5A, and Westlake is number 2 overall in Texas during this time based on win %

Celina 176-21-1 was the only team ahead of Westlake based on win % with a .8914





"The best winning percentage in the 1990s does not belong to Midland Lee, Stephenville or La Marque. It belongs to the Chaparrals from Austin Westlake, with a winning percentage of .898 (126-13-3) the last 10 years."

Not to mention 71 straight district wins, and we did go from the 1990 Austin Reagan game to the 1998 Killeen Ellison game with out loosing a regular season game.

We have had something like 14-16 cant remember exactly, straight playoff appearances.

and the 1994 Chaparral Offense put up the heighest single season numbers in 5A football history.

http://www.msasportsnetwork.com/articles.asp?region=3&id=45

This was written in 2000.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

I don't think that 12 state title appearances and 6 state championships from one district (4-5A the little southwest conference) from 1980 - 1999 is too shabby.

I'd put our district (4-5A) record against any other district over the same period of time and be hard pressed to find one better.

Just my opinion.

RR

Uh...you mean 8 title appearances...(4 Midland Lee/4 Permian)...

...4 championships!!

Hell, Stephenville did that between 91-99...4 title appearances...3 wins, 8 semi-final appearances...just by themselves.

Listen we can dispute this all day...the most dominant Region, in depth, over the past 20 years is DFW/East Texas...Region 2!!!

West Texas played in plenty of playoff games/titles...but they had super confidence and super stats from playing a bunch of nobody's first.

Lets just agree to disagree, because if you plucked Permian and Lee out of the West it would be non-excistent. Take any two teams from Region 2...you still have plenty of other power houses!!!

Hence, MORE DEPTH!!!

:D Gotta love me!!

[farmerfan]

Abilene Cooper and Midland High both have made title game apperances over that time span. I never said West Texas was the toughest region, however they were the toughest district, they were a district that year in and year out produced some of the toughest teams in the state, and no one wanted to play them or go out there come playoff time. There are many HS football fans that have felt this way for over 30 years, if you take the 60's and 70's that district was flat out brutal, many times you would have a 9-1 and 8-2 team miss the playoffs since only one could go. Also for the longest time the only metroplex school who ever had success against West Texas was Plano, I saw some great Lewisville and Marcus teams go to West Texas and get beat, same could be said for Lake Highlands, Mesquite, Arlington Lamar, Arlington, Longview and Tyler Lee. The Little SWC has been the premier district in this state for many years and still can lay claim to being one of the top 3 in the state now.

[CoppellCowboy57]

it would deffently be 88' Carter Cowboys

[dragonsdaddy]

you need to read a little more hx of hs football. you also need to add midland high to the appearances. i don't have all the scores which you may or may not, but the lswc has been regarded as THE area of hs football excellence forever. no other district from the opening of permian until now can compare.
if we are going to cherry pick great teams from a district, not a region like the metromess, you could and would add lots of championships to reg 1. this is really as ludicrous a statement as i've ever had to refute. trust me, the lswc has been the king of hs football since before there were face masks and has persisted. they aren't quite the dominators of the 50's, 60's 70's 80's and 90's, but they'll be back as ahs showed last year.

[rebelraider]

Uh...you mean 8 title appearances...(4 Midland Lee/4 Permian)...

...4 championships!!

Hell, Stephenville did that between 91-99...4 title appearances...3 wins, 8 semi-final appearances...just by themselves.

Listen we can dispute this all day...the most dominant Region, in depth, over the past 20 years is DFW/East Texas...Region 2!!!

West Texas played in plenty of playoff games/titles...but they had super confidence and super stats from playing a bunch of nobody's first.

Lets just agree to disagree, because if you plucked Permian and Lee out of the West it would be non-excistent. Take any two teams from Region 2...you still have plenty of other power houses!!!

Hence, MORE DEPTH!!!

:D Gotta love me!!


No, I mean 12!

If you want to include Lee's State Chapionship in 2000, which I wasn't including, it would be 13 and 7, if you include Midland High's in 2002 then 14 and 7 in the past 25 years.

State Championship Appearances:
Permian 80,84,85,87,89,91,94,95
Lee 83,98,99
Abilene Cooper 96

State Championship Wins:
Permian 80,84,89,91
Lee 98,99

12 appearances 6 state titles

RR

[The Great Evaluator]

Carter won their state title back before there was big school little school. Only 2 teams could get in back then and a state title meant more than it does today. My senior year (87) the Lamar Vikings were awesome. They were 9-0 going into the final game of the season but got beat by Trinity 21-0. Trinity had to have that win just to get into the playoffs. Scenarios like this are what created the whole big school little school system that we have now. the margin for error in Carter's era was much smaller and the regular season games more competitive. I don't think the Carroll Dragons of the recent era would have beat them. Their defense was lights out and I'm a Carroll fan. The fact of the matter is they were ahead of their time. They were the team of the 80's that was so freakishly fast they would have been good in the 90's and even today. Teams like they had come along once in a generation. How many of these other "dynasty" teams sent 2 players to the NFL? Carter had Jessie Armstead and Le'Shai Maston both of whom had very productive NFL careers. I believe they had a couple of underclassmen that made NFL rosters as well. What it boils down to is who you saw in person and of all the teams I have ever seen, they were the best. I never saw North Shore but if I had I would quite possibly say it was them. None of the teams i've seen mentioned could I argue with, it's just that I didn't see a lot them in person. I can promise you this, no one has had more team speed on defense than that group did...Maybe equal to but I can't imagine anything faster.

[CCBoy]

Carter won their state title back before there was big school little school. Only 2 teams could get in back then and a state title meant more than it does today. My senior year (87) the Lamar Vikings were awesome. They were 9-0 going into the final game of the season but got beat by Trinity 21-0. Trinity had to have that win just to get into the playoffs. Scenarios like this are what created the whole big school little school system that we have now. the margin for error in Carter's era was much smaller and the regular season games more competitive. I don't think the Carroll Dragons of the recent era would have beat them. Their defense was lights out and I'm a Carroll fan. The fact of the matter is they were ahead of their time. They were the team of the 80's that was so freakishly fast they would have been good in the 90's and even today. Teams like they had come along once in a generation. How many of these other "dynasty" teams sent 2 players to the NFL? Carter had Jessie Armstead and Le'Shai Maston both of whom had very productive NFL careers. I believe they had a couple of underclassmen that made NFL rosters as well. What it boils down to is who you saw in person and of all the teams I have ever seen, they were the best. I never saw North Shore but if I had I would quite possibly say it was them. None of the teams i've seen mentioned could I argue with, it's just that I didn't see a lot them in person. I can promise you this, no one has had more team speed on defense than that group did...Maybe equal to but I can't imagine anything faster.
NFL Product from that team would include:
Jesse Armstead (Giants, Redskins, Panthers) 5 time pro bowl
Le'Shai Maston (Oilers, Titans)
Greg Hill (Cheifs, Lions)
Clifton Abraham (Tampa Bay)
Darius Smith (Cowboys)
But not just limited to those guys because we had a couple of big time players that did some off the field junk that caused them to faulter. Derrick Evans would have definitly had a nice shot at being on that list. He signed with Tennessee but ended up Locked down instead.
I know Farmerfan said that he saw tape on these guys, but it was something seeing these guys live and in person every game of the season and watching all the teams around them.

[farmerfan]

Im sure it was amazing to witness that talent live. However, how many NFL players did Marshall and Permian have? The point I am trying to make is it does not matter how many NFL players are on a team, if they dont play as a team and dominate every week then they do not deserve to be considered one of the best teams of all time. Looking at all the talent they had, there is no way anyone in 1988 should have come close to those guys, but they did, its not a knock on Carter, its just the way I feel. I realize I am in the minority on this topic, as many on this site and outside this site believe they were one of the greatest teams ever, I guess I am just to stubborn to believe that.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Im sure it was amazing to witness that talent live. However, how many NFL players did Marshall and Permian have? The point I am trying to make is it does not matter how many NFL players are on a team, if they dont play as a team and dominate every week then they do not deserve to be considered one of the best teams of all time. Looking at all the talent they had, there is no way anyone in 1988 should have come close to those guys, but they did, its not a knock on Carter, its just the way I feel. I realize I am in the minority on this topic, as many on this site and outside this site believe they were one of the greatest teams ever, I guess I am just to stubborn to believe that.

I truly believe that Carter was the best of the 80's era...however it is different when considering the greatest of all time. Many teams have duplicated the size, speed and power of that team throughout the 90's and 00's. I can name, at least, 15, teams that could equal if not beat that Carter team. Sorry, football evolves just like everything else.

Some teams I think could beat that Carter Team:

92' Southlake
98' Southlake
93' Stephenville
94' Stephenville
95' Garland
95' Garland Lakeview
96' North Mesquite
94' La Marque
95' La Marque
97' Flower Mound
02' Flower Mound
03' North Shore
03' Woodlands
93' Converse Judson
99' Garland
97' Texas City
98' Midland Lee
93' Plano
96' Lewisville
89' Permian
91' Permian
94' Tyler John Tyler
96' Austin Westlake
04' Southlake

[farmerfan]

Uh...you mean 8 title appearances...(4 Midland Lee/4 Permian)...

...4 championships!!

Hell, Stephenville did that between 91-99...4 title appearances...3 wins, 8 semi-final appearances...just by themselves.

Listen we can dispute this all day...the most dominant Region, in depth, over the past 20 years is DFW/East Texas...Region 2!!!

West Texas played in plenty of playoff games/titles...but they had super confidence and super stats from playing a bunch of nobody's first.

Lets just agree to disagree, because if you plucked Permian and Lee out of the West it would be non-excistent. Take any two teams from Region 2...you still have plenty of other power houses!!!

Hence, MORE DEPTH!!!

:D Gotta love me!!

You are way off on Stephenville, first off it was 4 state titles in 4 apperances, and second they never made it to 8 semifinal's. They were undefeated in the semifinal round of the 90's at 4-0, and many times they got beat by Denison or Sweetwater in the early rounds of the playoffs. The fact that you elude to West Texas playing a bunch of nobody's first is laughable. From the 3rd round on they always played tough teams, I guess teams such as Denton,Sherman,Lewisville,Lake Highlands,Arlington,Arlington Lamar, are a bunch of no body's. It does not matter if you open up against El Paso or Dallas in the first round, to win a state title you eventually are going to play against the best, and for decades the Little SWC has been the best.

[westlake]

We have played

Well since we have been consistant enough to advance deep into the playoffs on a regular basis, we dont play anyone good.

We have only been to state in 90, 94, 96, 00, 01 i guess that also makes us not very good. We won a state championship in 96 with a 40pt win. i guess that donsent make us very good. Last time i checked you play other areas teams to get to state (including houston and dallas area schools).

We have a NATIONAL RECORD 71 straight district wins, i guess if it was so easy to do, than other schools would be better. We did win 68 regular season games in a row, i guess we arent very good though.

and the 126-13-3 isnt a really big mark anyway, it is only better than anyone did in the 1990's. if you want to talk about which regions have more better teams than houston and dallas have them, i also think that west texas is where friday night football origionated. Abeline, Abeline cooper, Midland, and Midland Lee, Odessa, and Odessa Permian. Permian has been to an astounding number or champoinship games, and last time i checked you have to beat other good teams to get there.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

You are way off on Stephenville, first off it was 4 state titles in 4 apperances, and second they never made it to 8 semifinal's. They were undefeated in the semifinal round of the 90's at 4-0, and many times they got beat by Denison or Sweetwater in the early rounds of the playoffs. The fact that you elude to West Texas playing a bunch of nobody's first is laughable. From the 3rd round on they always played tough teams, I guess teams such as Denton,Sherman,Lewisville,Lake Highlands,Arlington,Arlington Lamar, are a bunch of no body's. It does not matter if you open up against El Paso or Dallas in the first round, to win a state title you eventually are going to play against the best, and for decades the Little SWC has been the best.

The best area of football, IN DEPTH, is DFW and East Texas. If you take PErmian, Lee and Cooper out of the west and southwest...you have no one. So what, if Permian or Lee gets by two weak teams in the opening rounds to play battled teams, from DFW/East TExas, that have faced stiff competition the weeks prior.

West Texas and Southwest Texas do not have depth, period. DFW and East TExas produces at least 50 great games a year....out in the west you have Permian vs Lee....big deal!!! (And a bunch of nobodys.)

When I played football, mid 90's and were darn good in the DFW/East TExas area, we didn't even worry about the West Texas teams. All season we wanted to face the local battle hardened teams. And we certainly didn't worry about Houston teams...Katy, La Marque and Yates. (Katy was the only one we somewhat talked about.)

We figured we'd be too beaten up facing each other to play deep in the playoffs. There were always injuries in that region.

Sorry...I'll never say West rules!! Ya right!! Lots of teams would be 388-140-29 if they had the pleasure of facing worthless Weat Texas teams.

So don't throw the stats at me...when you play nobody's and win all the time you deserve to have great "regular season" records. Same goes for LaMarque and Katy.

Try having Duncanville, Desoto, North Mesquite and Mesquite in your district. And your pre-season games consist of Plano and Lake Highlands. They'd also be the first teams you'd face in the playoffs. (Plano East, Plano and Lake Highlands.) That's the way it was when I was in school. And back then the DFW/East TExas area was packed with SUPERB talent. Especially that district. We'd knock each other off, before the playoffs.

Week in and week out, you played tough teams. Got banged up!!

The truth is...THERE'S NO DEPTH IN THE WEST!!! (Oh, I forgot the El Paso teams....ya right!!!)

[NewSherriffInTown]

I have no clue what the best team of all time would be...BUT



Carter was not it. There is no way. In fact, they should be considered one of the most underachieving teams of all time with the way their individual talent ended up.


They must've thought they were invincible to be almost beaten that many times in a season.


On #'s alone, I say North Shore.

[dragonsdaddy]

bsptlw you need a new call sign. i'm thinking steel trap might fit. you don't think plano worried about going out west to face permian 3 times and lee once? they played some memorable games back in the day. you have a very narrow, skewed and incorrect view of texas hs football. there were plenty of good teams before your hs career, and several since. you in a huge group of 1 that believes as you profess to. so far every poster has tried to straighten you out, to no avail. i'm willing to let you flounder amongst all your supporters. if you get lonely, come on back to reality.

[dada]

The best area of football, IN DEPTH, is DFW and East Texas. If you take PErmian, Lee and Cooper out of the west and southwest...you have no one. So what, if Permian or Lee gets by two weak teams in the opening rounds to play battled teams, from DFW/East TExas, that have faced stiff competition the weeks prior.

West Texas and Southwest Texas do not have depth, period. DFW and East TExas produces at least 50 great games a year....out in the west you have Permian vs Lee....big deal!!! (And a bunch of nobodys.)

When I played football, mid 90's and were darn good in the DFW/East TExas area, we didn't even worry about the West Texas teams. All season we wanted to face the local battle hardened teams. And we certainly didn't worry about Houston teams...Katy, La Marque and Yates. (Katy was the only one we somewhat talked about.)

We figured we'd be too beaten up facing each other to play deep in the playoffs. There were always injuries in that region.

Sorry...I'll never say West rules!! Ya right!! Lots of teams would be 388-140-29 if they had the pleasure of facing worthless Weat Texas teams.

So don't throw the stats at me...when you play nobody's and win all the time you deserve to have great "regular season" records. Same goes for LaMarque and Katy.

Try having Duncanville, Desoto, North Mesquite and Mesquite in your district. And your pre-season games consist of Plano and Lake Highlands. They'd also be the first teams you'd face in the playoffs. (Plano East, Plano and Lake Highlands.) That's the way it was when I was in school. And back then the DFW/East TExas area was packed with SUPERB talent. Especially that district. We'd knock each other off, before the playoffs.

Week in and week out, you played tough teams. Got banged up!!

The truth is...THERE'S NO DEPTH IN THE WEST!!! (Oh, I forgot the El Paso teams....ya right!!!)
You just described about 75-80% of all the districts in Texas....

[ThEgReAtOnE]

bsptlw you need a new call sign. i'm thinking steel trap might fit. you don't think plano worried about going out west to face permian 3 times and lee once? they played some memorable games back in the day. you have a very narrow, skewed and incorrect view of texas hs football. there were plenty of good teams before your hs career, and several since. you in a huge group of 1 that believes as you profess to. so far every poster has tried to straighten you out, to no avail. i'm willing to let you flounder amongst all your supporters. if you get lonely, come on back to reality.

Well, there's alot of us out here, then!! Support what you will, I have my opinion and you, yours. As far as describing 75-80% of the districts...that's my point. They're located where? DFW/East Texas

As far as Plano going to West Texas...PLano Wildcats met Permian only twice in the playoffs in the last 25 years...twice.

And they lost both times....1994 and 1987....

Lee beat Plano in 83'...Ill give you that.

Rarely does Permian or Lee face DFW/East Texas teams and win. Now they played the central teams...like Converse Judson or Austin Westlake...and lost there as well. No wait they one won final against Judson.

Don't give me any of this bi-district, regional and quarterfinals crap....LEe and Permian both, have failed more times then not, when it comes to the big games...semi-final and final.

They're power houses because, on a regular basis, they play nobody's!!!!
First round, second round, third round nobody's...then they get to the competition and choke, either in the semi-final and final. Lee has carried the West Texas region, because Perminan has fallen off. They have done crap in over 15 years....AND THEY KNOW THAT!!!...Getting embarrassed, by a blowout, last year to Lee.

[farmerfan]

Well, there's alot of us out here, then!! Support what you will, I have my opinion and you, yours. As far as describing 75-80% of the districts...that's my point. They're located where? DFW/East Texas

As far as Plano going to West Texas...PLano Wildcats met Permian only twice in the playoffs in the last 25 years...twice.

And they lost both times....1994 and 1987....

Lee beat Plano in 83'...Ill give you that.

Rarely does Permian or Lee face DFW/East Texas teams and win. Now they played the central teams...like Converse Judson or Austin Westlake...and lost there as well. No wait they one won final against Judson.

Don't give me any of this bi-district, regional and quarterfinals crap....LEe and Permian both, have failed more times then not, when it comes to the big games...semi-final and final.

They're power houses because, on a regular basis, they play nobody's!!!!
First round, second round, third round nobody's...then they get to the competition and choke, either in the semi-final and final. Lee has carried the West Texas region, because Perminan has fallen off. They have done crap in over 15 years....AND THEY KNOW THAT!!!...Getting embarrassed, by a blowout, last year to Lee.

Permian and Lee have never beat Judson, Lee has beat Westlake in a final. Sure Plano might have beat Permian those two times they have played, but for Plano those were the toughest games they faced on there way to a championship. In 1994 a week after beating Permian 10-0, a game that did not see a TD till late in the 2nd half, Plano beat Katy 28-7. Trust me, DD knows that Plano worried about playing Permian, because every time they have met in the playoffs it has been a battle, in 77 it was 3-0, in 78 it was 6-3, in 87 it was 29-21 and in 94 it was 10-0, all those games could have very esaily been Permian wins.
Now as far as Permian choking in the playoffs against DFW area teams, lets see, they are 3-0-1 against Lewisville, 4-0 against Arlington Lamar, 1-0-2(both ties resulting in wins) against Arlington High, and they have beat teams such as Highland Park, Arlington Sam Houston, Irving MacArthur, Longview, Richland, Sherman, Texarkana Texas High, Denton High (3-0) and many more that I could list? You still convinced that they could not or would not have competed in DFW or East Texas?

With your statements you have lost all credibility concerning your ability to discuss HS football, and you certainly are the first one I have ever encountered that has stated The Little SWC is weak.

[dragonsdaddy]

man you need to reboot your info-net site. i drove from houston to lubbock in 77(3-0 plano) and to odessa in 78(6-3 plano), and i know it wasn't to enjoy the scenery. you are either making stuff up or not trying very hard. i've been reading right along with you, and i guess they've been deleting the ones supporting your side. your lack of statistical accuracy really detracts from your argument.

[grayowl60]

Carter's opponents were far more dominant than Permian's 89' opponents.

THAT'S MY POINT!! When you're basing your argument, you're also saying Permian has to play and/or played as tough, if not tougher opponents that year. You'd be hard pressed, in 1988, to find tougher schools then that of Permian, Marshall and Duncanville!!

Personally, year in and year out, for probably the last 20 years, the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite. In these regions these teams have to play each other 3, 4 and 5 times during the regular season, let alone the playoffs!

So my great teams will come from these regions! :D
While I generally agree about the east/dfw power, how do you explain the 3 in a row. deal at Midland Lee. Was that just a flook. They had to play games!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

man you need to reboot your info-net site. i drove from houston to lubbock in 77(3-0 plano) and to odessa in 78(6-3 plano), and i know it wasn't to enjoy the scenery. you are either making stuff up or not trying very hard. i've been reading right along with you, and i guess they've been deleting the ones supporting your side. your lack of statistical accuracy really detracts from your argument.

Wow, wanting to throw up the stats...well for those times you say Permian played DFW/East Texas Teams and won...they lost as well to 81' Lewisville, 82' Euless Trinity, 87' and 94' Plano, 88' Carter and 99' Duncaville. And I seem to recall a, I believe in 96 or 97, a Permian team who had the nerve to meet, for the first time, a Garland team...I think it was South Garland, in the REGULAR SEASON...and got their little paw butts embarrassed...wooped. I think the score was 37 to 10.

Trust me when I say there are lots of people that feel that "MOJO" crap is overrated. Once Permian got through those sorry Lubbock and El Paso teams in the playoffs they would play teams like Aldine, Klein, Yates, and...oh yes, DFW/East Texas teams... which is where the real teams play. Honestly if you're talking about the 70's I'm not very knowledgable...but I asked my father, who was a two time all state lineman in Central Texas, in the 60's, and he said Permian weren't feared, at all. That was a mystique they built for themselves.

Yes, Permian has beaten a few teams....wow. But on a regular basis that PErmian team would be just another good team in the DFW. The fact that they build confidence by beating nobody's all season means nothing to me.

In my book they're a great school, but not feared, and definitely not legendary.

West Texas, the best?........Not at all!! Sorry!

BACK TO WHAT I SAID IN THE BEGINNING...ARGUE ALL YOU WANT, THERE IS NO DEPTH OUT WEST.

:D Come play, full seasons, in the DFW/East Texas and see how feared you are!!!!!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

While I generally agree about the east/dfw power, how do you explain the 3 in a row. deal at Midland Lee. Was that just a flook. They had to play games!

3 in a row what?? I'll give them 99' because they had to go through Mesquite...and they did 40-13...good job.

But 98' when they played that sorry butt ....SAN ANTONIO MacArthur team, because Katy had an ineligible player....no way!! Many people feel that Katy 98' team was it's best!! I wish Katy would have played that Lee team....just like the Carter 88' team played and beat that 88' Permian team....Lee would have one less trophy.

And yes farmerfan I know Lee beat Lake Highlands that year!!!! But go through Katy....nope, sorry!!

Oh and by the way tell me that movie "Friday Night Lights" was horrible. I think they could have done you guys justice...give you guys some athletic looking athletes, or something. Then again Permian needed a little more than that on opening weekend, when they played Lee and got blown out!!!

Sometimes I wonder what it would feel like to play for Permian knowing the next best team, besides Lee, is in San Antonio, Houston or DFW!!! 100's of miles away!!!!

[farmerfan]

Permian never played South Garland, you are thinking of North Mesquite and the year was 96, a year in which Permian finished 7-4, lost in the first round of the Playoffs to Lubbock Coranado. You say your father said Permian was not feared in the 60's, well of course they weren't. At that time they were still a relatively new school, who won their first state title in 65, the legacy was just beginning in the 60's. You also say Lewisville beat them in 81, well the Farmers tied Permian and were lucky enough to win on penetrations, every other time Lewisville has played Permian, Permian destroyed us. Same could be said for many Arlington Lamar teams who faced Permian with a undefeated record. You dont win 6 state titles and advance to 10 title games in region 1 without going through the metroplex, and more times than not Permian has been successfull when they play against DFW or East Texas schools.

[dragonsdaddy]

there are 20 or so districts in texas that haven't won a state title between all the members, so let's don't go to the depth card. west texas is 8-10 schools tops. ep is new mexico. the sa schools get the same break of having a open date in week 3 of the po's. does that mean coju is weak. you keep bringing up all these people who are of your opinion. can they not type or are they away from their computers or merely figments? please have at least one of them respond. your voice is getting weak.

you are right most people didn't fear mojo since they knew they'd never get to them. i guess winning all the titles since 65 was merely childs' play and really should be disregarded because you and dad think they were soft. i'm betting the vanquished would have welcomed anyone they took out of the playoffs before starting basketball.

[farmerfan]

In 1998 Lee not only went through Lake Highlands, they beat a talented South Grand Prarie team. In 2000 they beat a good Woodlands team and destroyed a very good Duncanville team at Texas Stadium. Take away Lee and Permian, and you still have teams that have produced very good football teams. Over the last 10 years Cooper has had successfull playoff runs, beating teams such as, FM Marcus, South Grand Prarie, Irving Nimitz, and Lake Highlands. With Abilene recently beating DeSoto as well as playing Carroll to one of their toughest games in the last 3 years. Midland High defeated Tyler Lee as well as Arlington Lamar a few years ago, so yes it does extend beyond the big 2, and this district will continue to produce teams that give the metroplex and east texas regional schools stiff competition for many years to come.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

In 1998 Lee not only went through Lake Highlands, they beat a talented South Grand Prarie team. In 2000 they beat a good Woodlands team and destroyed a very good Duncanville team at Texas Stadium. Take away Lee and Permian, and you still have teams that have produced very good football teams. Over the last 10 years Cooper has had successfull playoff runs, beating teams such as, FM Marcus, South Grand Prarie, Irving Nimitz, and Lake Highlands. With Abilene recently beating DeSoto as well as playing Carroll to one of their toughest games in the last 3 years. Midland High defeated Tyler Lee as well as Arlington Lamar a few years ago, so yes it does extend beyond the big 2, and this district will continue to produce teams that give the metroplex and east texas regional schools stiff competition for many years to come.

I'm not disputing what the West has accomplished, but it doesn't hold a candle, in depth...and as a conglomerate, to what the DFW/East Texas area teams have done.

And if you want to bicker over titles and wins...

Plano (7 Titles) 65', 67', 71', 77', 86', 87', 94'
Southlake Carroll (5 Titles) 88', 92', 93', 02', 04'
Garland (4 titles) 56', 63', 64', 99'
Ennis (4 titles) 75', 00', 01', 04'
Stephenville (4 titles) 93', 94', 98', 99'
Tyler John Tyler (2 Titles) 73', 94'
Lewisville (2 Titles) 93', 96'
Tyler Lee (2 Titles) 30', 04'
Denton Ryan (2 Titles) 01', 02'
Highland Park (2 Titles) 57', 45'

...all together the DFW/East Texas area has, I believe, 55 - big school - state titles.

Here's the rest of the list of the teams with at least one title from the DFW/East Texas Area....

South Oak Cliff
Tyler Lee
Greenville
Longview
Corsicana
Fort Worth Heights
Dallas Sunset
Arlington High
Terrell
Palestine
McKinney
Lake Highlands
Denison
Dallas Carter
Lufkin
Mesquite
Tyler Chapel Hill
Dallas Marshall
Wilmer Hutchins
Grapevine
Flower Mound Marcus
Duncanville

...no other area...i.e. West Texas/Southwest Texas/Central or Southeast Texas has more schools and/or more titles.

HENCE...the DFW/East Texas is the best region to play football. Not "dusty" West Texas.

If you want to talk about little schools....we can talk about 3A Powerhouse Celina....(4 titles) 98', 99', 00', 01'! 57 game win streak....I'm trying to think whether the Permian ever did that!!?? Uh, don't think so!!

:D DFW/East Texas....simply the best!!!

[farmerfan]

Like DD has already pointed out, in West Texas you have maybe 10 schools that play football, out of those schools that district has produced more state titles per members than any other in the state. When every member of a current district winning at least one state title except Cooper and Midland High, and even those two schools have made it to a State title game. Show me another area or district in the state that has done that?
Also take the population of Midland/Odessa and Abilene, and then compare it to the population base of the DFW region and DFW does not compare in the quality of teams that the Little SWC has produced.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Like DD has already pointed out, in West Texas you have maybe 10 schools that play football, out of those schools that district has produced more state titles per members than any other in the state. When every member of a current district winning at least one state title except Cooper and Midland High, and even those two schools have made it to a State title game. Show me another area or district in the state that has done that?
Also take the population of Midland/Odessa and Abilene, and then compare it to the population base of the DFW region and DFW does not compare in the quality of teams that the Little SWC has produced.

Farmerfan, lets agree to disagree. You believe what you believe and vice versa. I believe the West never has and never will hold a candle to the east and you believe the exact opposite.

Oh, well!! I can tell you now, I'll never budge, not one inch, so lets agree to disagree.

:D Goodluck with whatever team you pull for this year!

And lets hope a West Texas team, preferably Permian or Lee or even Cooper, meets a DFW or East Texas team...preferably, Garland, Southlake Carroll or Tyler Lee in the playoffs this year!! [winks]

[PurpleNation]

Easy the 2004 Lufkin Panthers were the best

[dragonsdaddy]

i agree in the dfw/et aggregate, but the lswc is a district. you are dragging in teams from the largest part of 2 full regions to make your comparisons. you are comparing raisins with watermelon patches. the only district that used to compare favorably was the 4a district with bwood and sville. the lswc has more titles amongst their 6 members than the whole of reg 4, and maybe even reg 3, probably from the beginning, but more likely since mojo started winning. stop thinking that west texas is a hugely populated spot, instead of one district.

[drgnbkr]

Southlake Carroll 92, could have beaten most & played with any of the teams listed....If you were lucky enough to see them play, you would agree....

[dragonsdaddy]

Easy the 2004 Lufkin Panthers were the best
what were they the best at exactly?

[NMHS fan]

:D The most dominant region over the past 20 years are out of DFW and East Texas...

Stephenville
Denton Ryan
Southlake Carroll
Lewisville
Tyler Lee
Euless Trinity
Flower Mound
Carter
Plano
Marshall
South Oak Cliff
Tyler John Tyler
Longview
Garland
Mesquite
North Mesquite
Ennis
Waco University

...just to name a few.

All these teams are or have been power houses of the region 2 area...and all but 1 has won state.



Ok, anyone want to guess the only team in this list without a state title? :o

It's nice to be in the list I guess...

[dragonsdaddy]

that would be et

[ThEgReAtOnE]

i agree in the dfw/et aggregate, but the lswc is a district. you are dragging in teams from the largest part of 2 full regions to make your comparisons. you are comparing raisins with watermelon patches. the only district that used to compare favorably was the 4a district with bwood and sville. the lswc has more titles amongst their 6 members than the whole of reg 4, and maybe even reg 3, probably from the beginning, but more likely since mojo started winning. stop thinking that west texas is a hugely populated spot, instead of one district.

You're coming in on the tail end of this...we were first alking about West Texas football (i.e. El Paso, Lubbock, Oddessa, Midland, hell, maybe even Austin) vs DFW/East Texas areas. Not districts or regions. The best overall, by the measurement of depth, is DFW/East TExas. I could care less what that district has done.

I personally don't think playing each other and a few nobodys in the regular season, out in West Texas, is the same thing as being in the DFW/East TExas area, and us playing each other. Where Permian has usually one big test, Lee, and maybe 2 second level contests...in the DFW...Garland, at one time had to play Plano, North Mesquite, Mesquite, Duncanville and Desoto all in the same regular season...and this was a time when those teams were state powerhouses.

The district you speak of in West Texas has been made, primarily, of 2 top tier teams...Permian and Lee. They could play their JV team against the rest of their foes, and still go undefeated.

Sorry....I'm not budging one inch. That "district" has benefited from playing easy regular seasons, soft 1st, 2nd and 3rd round playoff games, while all the real teams in DFW and East Texas weed themselves out playing rough and grueling games. Then they would slip in and upset a DFW or East Texas team and say, "Oh look, we're the best!"....hey I played the sport of football for nearly 20 years...it makes a difference when one team plays tough opponents all year and another coasts, due to a soft schedule. When you play the softer team, they seem rested and pumped....while you're tired and beat up!!

Again, no way will I ever say the West is the Best!!!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Ok, anyone want to guess the only team in this list without a state title? :o

It's nice to be in the list I guess...

Ya...North Mesquite!!

But they were a power house for a while!! Always went deep into the playoffs. And I did say, at the bottom of the post, all but 1 of these teams, won state!!!:-)

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Ya ET didn't win either!! Wow, I must have been sleepy!!!:-)

[dragonsdaddy]

when did trinity garner their title? i don't remember it. and carter's name doesn't show up either.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

when did trinity garner their title? i don't remember it. and carter's name doesn't show up either.

Here is the list of the DFW and East Texas schools to win state....

Plano (7 Titles) 65', 67', 71', 77', 86', 87', 94'
Southlake Carroll (5 Titles) 88', 92', 93', 02', 04'
Garland (4 titles) 56', 63', 64', 99'
Ennis (4 titles) 75', 00', 01', 04'
Stephenville (4 titles) 93', 94', 98', 99'
Tyler John Tyler (2 Titles) 73', 94'
Lewisville (2 Titles) 93', 96'
Tyler Lee (2 Titles) 30', 04'
Denton Ryan (2 Titles) 01', 02'
Highland Park (2 Titles) 57', 45'

Here's the rest of the list of the teams with at least one title from the DFW/East Texas Area....

South Oak Cliff
Tyler Lee
Greenville
Longview
Corsicana
Fort Worth Heights
Dallas Sunset
Arlington High
Terrell
Palestine
McKinney
Lake Highlands
Denison
Dallas Carter
Lufkin
Mesquite
Tyler Chapel Hill
Dallas Marshall
Wilmer Hutchins
Grapevine
Flower Mound Marcus
Duncanville

:D

[dragonsdaddy]

dallas marshall isn't a choice i don't think. the official records don't give carter a state title.

[farmerfan]

The 3rd round playoff games for the Little SWC are mainly against DFW foes, and many times Arlington Lamar went out to Odessa or hosted Permian at TX Stadium with a perfect record, only to come away with a dominating defeat. Same is said for Lewisville, twice we played Permian in the 90's in the 3rd round of the playoffs, in 92 we went out to Odessa and lost 28-0, in 94 we played Permian at Tx Stadium and lost 37-0, we had a great team both years and both times we played them we got dominated.
Also how many times did the East Texas schools or the metroplex schools have the luxury of playing a Sunset, Kimball or Skyline in the playoffs, even Carter from 94 till recenlty was a bye when it came to the 1st round of the playoffs. I dont bye the we have to play tough teams each year BS, outside of Garland and North Mesquite, no one in that former district was considered a major threat to win a state title. In the little SWC you always have a team or two who is, and its the parity that has made that district so strong. In recent years Permian and Lee have droped off the radar, and in their place Abilene and Cooper have emerged as protectors of the legacy. I would be interested to see if their is a single district in the state that has had 4 teams make it to a state title game in the last 10 years?

[ThEgReAtOnE]

dallas marshall isn't a choice i don't think. the official records don't give carter a state title.

In 1990 Dallas Marshall beat Conver Judson 21-19 for the title. I saw the 1988 Carter vs Judson game....Carter won. I guess it's in the eyes of the beholder. Their title wasn't officially stripped, until 2 years later, which was crap.

They know they won...so do we!!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

The 3rd round playoff games for the Little SWC are mainly against DFW foes, and many times Arlington Lamar went out to Odessa or hosted Permian at TX Stadium with a perfect record, only to come away with a dominating defeat. Same is said for Lewisville, twice we played Permian in the 90's in the 3rd round of the playoffs, in 92 we went out to Odessa and lost 28-0, in 94 we played Permian at Tx Stadium and lost 37-0, we had a great team both years and both times we played them we got dominated.
Also how many times did the East Texas schools or the metroplex schools have the luxury of playing a Sunset, Kimball or Skyline in the playoffs, even Carter from 94 till recenlty was a bye when it came to the 1st round of the playoffs. I dont bye the we have to play tough teams each year BS, outside of Garland and North Mesquite, no one in that former district was considered a major threat to win a state title. In the little SWC you always have a team or two who is, and its the parity that has made that district so strong. In recent years Permian and Lee have droped off the radar, and in their place Abilene and Cooper have emerged as protectors of the legacy. I would be interested to see if their is a single district in the state that has had 4 teams make it to a state title game in the last 10 years?

Lets agree to disagree!! We tie, because you haven't made your point, in my eyes, and vice versa!!

My vote goes to the superiority of the DFW/East Texas area schools...yours go to the Lee, Permian, Cooper and Abilene district, El Paso, Lubbock and Austin.

Lets move on...cause I'm not moving an inch!! :D

[dragonsdaddy]

marshall is less than 25 miles from the border with louisiana, not a dallas suburb yet. carter needs to fire up the lawyers that pulled off that travesty and get it back then. why should they have to follow the rules under which everyone else plays?

[mojoman21]

first of all, i witnesed both carter and yates play permian. there is no doubt houston yates was the better team. those boys were bad. take nothing away from carter, they were good to. i haven't seen a team yet that could be yates.

[mojoman21]

bsptlw, you don't have a clue.

[drgnbkr]

marshall is less than 25 miles from the border with louisiana, not a dallas suburb yet. carter needs to fire up the lawyers that pulled off that travesty and get it back then. why should they have to follow the rules under which everyone else plays?

Dallas Marshall is like saying Dallas Longview, or Lufkin...silly

[ThEgReAtOnE]

marshall is less than 25 miles from the border with louisiana, not a dallas suburb yet. carter needs to fire up the lawyers that pulled off that travesty and get it back then. why should they have to follow the rules under which everyone else plays?

The arguement is DFW/East TExas versus West Texas/South West Texas. You guys want to make it about districts....I don't dance that petty game. East stomps west, period. Marshall is in the farthest east.

Again, lets agree to disagree!!

By the way Abilene is in central Texas, not west texas, but Midland and Odessa claim them. Lets not be petty!!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Dallas Marshall is like saying Dallas Longview, or Lufkin...silly
You and Mojo are coming in at the tail end of a long and grueling conversation!!

[dragonsdaddy]

have you ever lived in abilene, or even visited out there. it is west texas thru and thru. man you need to get out more. there may be arguments about where west texas begins, but it is west of abilene for sure. marshall isn't dallas and abilene isn't central texas on any chamber of commerce mags anywhere.

[mojoman21]

back when permian was good, they dominated most teams they played, including most east texas teams.plano was a thorn in the side. pull up who they played in the playoff's, and you will see. right now southlake is dominating.there impressive.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

have you ever lived in abilene, or even visited out there. it is west texas thru and thru. man you need to get out more. there may be arguments about where west texas begins, but it is west of abilene for sure. marshall isn't dallas and abilene isn't central texas on any chamber of commerce mags anywhere.

I have a map sitting in front of me...Abilene sits in the middle of DFW and Midland/Odessa. But they excist in the west texas area/region. Marshall (ok, dont call them Dallas Marshall...so what) is in the east. Which is what we're speaking about. DFW/East Texas vs West Texas/El Paso/Lubbock...

as a whole, the west couldn't hold a candle. If you take Lee and Permian out of the west you would have a cooper or abilene team. Basically, nothing. They got a some what good team this year, so what!!

We have had and always will have the depth to conquer the west. We have better teams, and more titles. The hell with a district...we have an entire area of past/present champions!!

[Warbird]

As a whole, the west couldn't hold a candle. If you take Lee and Permian out of the west you would have a cooper or abilene team. Basically, nothing. They got a some what good team this year, so what!!

We have had and always will have the depth to conquer the west. We have better teams, and more titles. The hell with a district...we have an entire area of past/present champions!!

Ignoring the fact that your message was almost unreadable, i.e., "The got a some what good team this year, so what!!", I'm going to rebutt your arguement. Also, please graduate from a second grade grammar class. It's quite annoying to have to piece this message together.

Basically nothing... If I had had a drink in my hand when I read that, the fluid would have come out of my nose. For your information, allow me to lay out the numbers.
Abilene: 6 State Titles, three of them in a row, two other appearances. Only one of four teams to have accomplished winning three in a row.
Abilene Cooper: 2 State title appearences, one of which many Cougar fans claim they actually won.
Odessa: 1 State Title, one other appearance.
Odessa Permian: 6 State Titles, 5 other appearences. Winningest team in Tx. HS football.
Midland High: 1 State Title appearance against Converse Judson, a game that they should have won.
Midland Lee: 3 State Title wins, all of them straight, one of only four teams to do so.
San Angelo Central: This is a team that is traditionally considered part of the LSWC. 2 championships in two appearences. The first one was over, guess who, Lufkin. (Note, I'm not bashing Lufkin, but I'm trying to prove my point about East Tx. I have great respect for Lufkin and the tough teams they traditionally put together year after year)

That's a total of... *Counts on fingers* 18 championships from one district, 11 other appearances, and this district also happened to produce half of the teams that won 3 straight?

Nothing, huh?

The fact of the matter is, your claim about "depth" may be true. Simply put, you have more kids. Frankly, it'd be stupid if you didn't have more "depth" than a district with seven teams. But, if you took an equally sized amount of teams from that area that you're talking about from the same sized populations...well, you get the picture. By the way, this was taken of 5A Tx. Football.com's district rankings:

Ranking District Top Teams
1 26-5A Smithson Valley, Converse Judson, Churchill, Madison
2 6-5A Euless Trinity, Irv. Mac., Irving, SGP
3 3-5A Abilene, Midland Lee, Cooper, Midland, Permian
4 14-5A Lufkin, The Woodlands, Klein Collins, Klein Forest
5 11-5A Garland, South Garland, North Garland
6 7-5A Duncanville, Desoto, Arlington Lamar

Gee, we're ahead of 14-5A, 11-5A, and 7-5A, who are no slouches themselves.

Nothing my butt.

[Slim-Rob]

No, I mean 12!

If you want to include Lee's State Chapionship in 2000, which I wasn't including, it would be 13 and 7, if you include Midland High's in 2002 then 14 and 7 in the past 25 years.

State Championship Appearances:
Permian 80,84,85,87,89,91,94,95
Lee 83,98,99
Abilene Cooper 96

State Championship Wins:
Permian 80,84,89,91
Lee 98,99

12 appearances 6 state titles

RR

26-5A
State Championship Appearances:
Converse Judson- 83, 88, 90, 92, 93, 95, 96, 98, 02
SA Roosevelt- 95
SA Macarthur- 98
SB Smithson Valley- 02(not 26-5A), 04

State Championship Titles
Judson- 83, 88*, 92, 93, 95, 02
SA Roosevelt- 95

*Carter forfeited 31-14 victory over Judson in '88 because of eligibility rules violations

10 appearances- 5 wins, 5 losses, 6 titles. (83-95)
12 appearances- 6 wins, 6 losses, 7 titles. (83-04, not counting SV's 02 appearance because they were not in 26-5A)

Judson vs 3-5A in Title games- 3-0
26-5A vs 3-5A in Title games- 3-1

I don't see a clear winner here.

[Slim-Rob]

Ignoring the fact that your message was almost unreadable, i.e., "The got a some what good team this year, so what!!", I'm going to rebutt your arguement. Also, please graduate from a second grade grammar class. It's quite annoying to have to piece this message together.

Basically nothing... If I had had a drink in my hand when I read that, the fluid would have come out of my nose. For your information, allow me to lay out the numbers.
Abilene: 6 State Titles, three of them in a row, two other appearances. Only one of four teams to have accomplished winning three in a row.
Abilene Cooper: 2 State title appearences, one of which many Cougar fans claim they actually won.
Odessa: 1 State Title, one other appearance.
Odessa Permian: 6 State Titles, 5 other appearences. Winningest team in Tx. HS football.
Midland High: 1 State Title appearance against Converse Judson, a game that they should have won.
Midland Lee: 3 State Title wins, all of them straight, one of only four teams to do so.
San Angelo Central: This is a team that is traditionally considered part of the LSWC. 2 championships in two appearences. The first one was over, guess who, Lufkin. (Note, I'm not bashing Lufkin, but I'm trying to prove my point about East Tx. I have great respect for Lufkin and the tough teams they traditionally put together year after year)

That's a total of... *Counts on fingers* 18 championships from one district, 11 other appearances, and this district also happened to produce half of the teams that won 3 straight?

Nothing, huh?

The fact of the matter is, your claim about "depth" may be true. Simply put, you have more kids. Frankly, it'd be stupid if you didn't have more "depth" than a district with seven teams. But, if you took an equally sized amount of teams from that area that you're talking about from the same sized populations...well, you get the picture. By the way, this was taken of 5A Tx. Football.com's district rankings:

Ranking District Top Teams
1 26-5A Smithson Valley, Converse Judson, Churchill, Madison
2 6-5A Euless Trinity, Irv. Mac., Irving, SGP
3 3-5A Abilene, Midland Lee, Cooper, Midland, Permian
4 14-5A Lufkin, The Woodlands, Klein Collins, Klein Forest
5 11-5A Garland, South Garland, North Garland
6 7-5A Duncanville, Desoto, Arlington Lamar

Gee, we're ahead of 14-5A, 11-5A, and 7-5A, who are no slouches themselves.

Nothing my butt.

You guys win in the long run, I guess.

Is it 4-5A or 3-5A?

Never mind, its 3-5A. I don't know where I got 4-5A. I guess I need to hit the hay. 'night

[Shoot2thrill]

You guys win in the long run, I guess.

Is it 4-5A or 3-5A?

Never mind, its 3-5A. I don't know where I got 4-5A. I guess I need to hit the hay. 'night

Actually we DID used to be in 4-5A RT but then during a UIL re-alignment we were changed to 3-5A. Back when 4A was the largest classification, we used to be in 5-4A. So when discussing the history of the LSWC, all are right. :).

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Ignoring the fact that your message was almost unreadable, i.e., "The got a some what good team this year, so what!!", I'm going to rebutt your arguement. Also, please graduate from a second grade grammar class. It's quite annoying to have to piece this message together.

Basically nothing... If I had had a drink in my hand when I read that, the fluid would have come out of my nose. For your information, allow me to lay out the numbers.
Abilene: 6 State Titles, three of them in a row, two other appearances. Only one of four teams to have accomplished winning three in a row.
Abilene Cooper: 2 State title appearences, one of which many Cougar fans claim they actually won.
Odessa: 1 State Title, one other appearance.
Odessa Permian: 6 State Titles, 5 other appearences. Winningest team in Tx. HS football.
Midland High: 1 State Title appearance against Converse Judson, a game that they should have won.
Midland Lee: 3 State Title wins, all of them straight, one of only four teams to do so.
San Angelo Central: This is a team that is traditionally considered part of the LSWC. 2 championships in two appearences. The first one was over, guess who, Lufkin. (Note, I'm not bashing Lufkin, but I'm trying to prove my point about East Tx. I have great respect for Lufkin and the tough teams they traditionally put together year after year)

That's a total of... *Counts on fingers* 18 championships from one district, 11 other appearances, and this district also happened to produce half of the teams that won 3 straight?

Nothing, huh?

The fact of the matter is, your claim about "depth" may be true. Simply put, you have more kids. Frankly, it'd be stupid if you didn't have more "depth" than a district with seven teams. But, if you took an equally sized amount of teams from that area that you're talking about from the same sized populations...well, you get the picture. By the way, this was taken of 5A Tx. Football.com's district rankings:

Ranking District Top Teams
1 26-5A Smithson Valley, Converse Judson, Churchill, Madison
2 6-5A Euless Trinity, Irv. Mac., Irving, SGP
3 3-5A Abilene, Midland Lee, Cooper, Midland, Permian
4 14-5A Lufkin, The Woodlands, Klein Collins, Klein Forest
5 11-5A Garland, South Garland, North Garland
6 7-5A Duncanville, Desoto, Arlington Lamar

Gee, we're ahead of 14-5A, 11-5A, and 7-5A, who are no slouches themselves.

Nothing my butt.

Nothing you've said makes any difference! Besides, like many people with something to say, you're coming in on the tail end of a long exhausting discussion. Say what you will...Weat Texas has never had depth. Comparing 18 state titles to 55 state titles is laughable.

We were not talking about districts. We've been talking about the depth of areas and regions. DEPTH!!! Who cares about districts?

As far as Permian being the all-time winningest...that means nothing. When you play teams like Midland High, Odessa High and most of the Cooper teams, you should win all the time.

I don't doubt Permians success...if I had a football factory, sculpting kids from the age of 8 to play football, because thats all that poor town has, I'd be the best football team in that area/region.

Again, we can be petty over the little things, but as far as depth is concerned the DFW and East Texas teams have won more, big school, state titles than any other area or region in Texas.

Again when you guys have soft schedules throughout the year and soft schedules in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the playoffs (dusting off those Lubbock and El Paso teams) you're fresh and ready to play battle hardened teams who are exhausted from weeks of playing tough games.

AND STOP CLAIMING ABILENE and COOPER....those teams are just as close to Dallas as they are to Midland. I consider those teams more central teams...like San Antonio and Austin, than West Texas. In the west you have Midland, Odessa, El Paso and maybe throw Lubbock in there!

Out of all those teams you have two, only two, power houses Permian and Lee.

That's my point, NO DEPTH. Tell me some El Paso powerhouses...some Lubbock powerhouses??? :D

[farmerfan]

Stop claiming East Texas as part of DFW then, DFW obviously has more depth than West Texas considering they have about 5 million more people. If you take East Texas vs West Texas then it is no contest, West Texas wins hands down. You have to remember in East Texas you have had only one 5A district, due to a lack of 5A teams they had to split the district up and send the Tyler and Longview schools to the metroplex and Lufkin to Houston. I dont think you will find anyone from East Texas who says they are apart of DFW.
You obvisouly dont know much about Cooper either, they have had great teams for the past 4 decades, and many times they sat at home during the playoffs with a 9-1 or 8-2 record. You also dont seem to acknowledge that a lot of the East Texas schools had a bye in the 1st round when they were pared up with the DISD schools, during the 90's it was a luxury to draw Skyline, Kimball and even Carter for a first round playoff contest. As far as quality teams go, district 3-5A is second to none.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Stop claiming East Texas as part of DFW then, DFW obviously has more depth than West Texas considering they have about 5 million more people. If you take East Texas vs West Texas then it is no contest, West Texas wins hands down. You have to remember in East Texas you have had only one 5A district, due to a lack of 5A teams they had to split the district up and send the Tyler and Longview schools to the metroplex and Lufkin to Houston. I dont think you will find anyone from East Texas who says they are apart of DFW.
You obvisouly dont know much about Cooper either, they have had great teams for the past 4 decades, and many times they sat at home during the playoffs with a 9-1 or 8-2 record. You also dont seem to acknowledge that a lot of the East Texas schools had a bye in the 1st round when they were pared up with the DISD schools, during the 90's it was a luxury to draw Skyline, Kimball and even Carter for a first round playoff contest. As far as quality teams go, district 3-5A is second to none.

YOU'VE BEEN MISSING MY POINT THIS ENTIRE TIME....

It's simple...if you split Texas, geographically, by fours...having the regions go like this...

North/North West(Midland/Odessa/El Paso/Lubbock and even Abilene)
North/North East (DFW/East Texas/Waco)
South/Southwest(San Antonio/Austin)
South/Southeast (Houston, Corpus Christie and further.)

North/North East is second to none...with 55 state titles. South/Southeast, ahead of North/North West, comes in second with like 36 state titles.

And even though Judson is in San Antonio, and they own like 5 or 6 titles...name 5 other powerhouses from there.( There's maybe one or two I can think of.) Austin has Westlake.

The fact I'm making, and actually you've already admitted it,....there is no depth in the West. Playing in the same district for 50 years is not the equivalent to having to switch around, year in and year out, in DFW and East Texas areas. When I was playing ball, in the 90's in DFW, four of the teams that were in my district are no longer there.

And again, Abilene is, geographically, in the middle of Texas. *CENTRALIZED*...there as close to DFW, as they are to Midland/Odessa. If there were a few more schools built in that area, those Abilene and Cooper schools wouldn't be in the at dusty district, with Lee and Permian. However, I'm not getting into districts. DFW and East Texas has far too many powerhouses to just put 5 in one district. They're spread out. And during the season they play each other.

You've talked all that crap about West Texas and can't provide any teams, from your area, from El PAso or Lubbock, that actually mean anything, why?....cause they're nobodys.

Listen it's simple, I'm not willing to budge...not one inch, and neither are you. So lets agree to disagree and move on!! :D

In my eyes Permian and Lee are great schools, but not the best!! At all!!

[Purple Haze]

bsptlw- reading your replies with the "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up' mentality reminds me of the lyrics from a song by singer/songwriter Tom Waits:

"The folks who know the truth aren't talking.

The ones who don't have a clue,.....you can't shut them up." ~Tom Waits~ :cool:

[ThEgReAtOnE]

bsptlw- reading your replies with the "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up' mentality reminds me of the lyrics from a song by singer/songwriter Tom Waits:

"The folks who know the truth aren't talking.

The ones who don't have a clue,.....you can't shut them up." ~Tom Waits~ :cool:

I have spoken facts! Quite simply the best players and teams come out of the North/North East!! No other region or area in Texas has more championships!!

Have a good one!! :D

[dragonsdaddy]

I have a map sitting in front of me...Abilene sits in the middle of DFW and Midland/Odessa. But they excist in the west texas area/region. Marshall (ok, dont call them Dallas Marshall...so what) is in the east. Which is what we're speaking about. DFW/East Texas vs West Texas/El Paso/Lubbock...

as a whole, the west couldn't hold a candle. If you take Lee and Permian out of the west you would have a cooper or abilene team. Basically, nothing. They got a some what good team this year, so what!!

We have had and always will have the depth to conquer the west. We have better teams, and more titles. The hell with a district...we have an entire area of past/present champions!!
try traveling around the state before making ludicrous comments. your football experience isn't making your rep as a valid judge any stronger. you are in fact the only person in the history of the world to draw a map of the state and regionalize el paso, the panhandle, the permian basin, the big country and the austin area and draw invalid conclusions from it. the only disagreement all have with you is whether you have a clue. error-filled stats and geographic ineptitude are at least 2 of your attributes.

[ktfan2005]

Katy either 1997 or 2000 nothing left to say about this one

[ThEgReAtOnE]

try traveling around the state before making ludicrous comments. your football experience isn't making your rep as a valid judge any stronger. you are in fact the only person in the history of the world to draw a map of the state and regionalize el paso, the panhandle, the permian basin, the big country and the austin area and draw invalid conclusions from it. the only disagreement all have with you is whether you have a clue. error-filled stats and geographic ineptitude are at least 2 of your attributes.

Ok!! Lets agree to disagree and move on!! I won't budge and neither will you guys!!

:D Lets move on!! Goodluck to your teams!!

[Slim-Rob]

I think its funny how almost all of us have gone from best team, to best district, to best region.

[DragonFan]

I think this thread was orginally about the best teams in Texas High School history. There can be many different ways to look at what constitutes a "Best Team". Is it the scoring differential? Is it the winning percentage? Is it the number of state titles? Or is it the accomplishments of one team during one season.

If you believe it is the accomplishments of one team during one season then you have to talk about the 04 Southlake Carroll Dragon team. I do not believe that any team had to play more great teams in one year than they did. Thier playoffs march was as grulling as any in history. They had to play Denton Ryan, Lufkin, Abilene, Allen, Irving, and Smithson Valley.

All of the teams that they played were ranked in the top ten in the state or region when SLC played them.

Denton Ryan had won every game they played except the two games against SLC.

Lufkin had at least 7 D1 players and only 1 loss.

Abilene was ranked #2 when they played

Allen was one of the top teams in the DFW area.

Irving was a district champ with DFW's best running back

Smithson Valley was playing in its 4th state championship game in 5 years!

The SLC team showed a heart of a champion by finding ways to win games late in the playoffs against some of the best teams in the state. Anyone who watched that team play knows that it won the games because of heart, determination, experience and a unwillingness to lose! Statiscly it may not have been the most dominationg but it won because it was driven to be the best and to win the championship for its deceased defensive Coach Charlie Stalculp. That team had dedicated itself to get to "Charlie Land" to honor the long time Defensive Coach who had lost his battle with cancer during the Spring. That team was a Champion!

[zippy]

Good post. The greatest high school team ever? I dont know, nobody will ever know cause you cant play a team from the past. Does this team deserve to be a mentioned? No doubt. It is not possible to know which was/is the best, the 04 SLC team is up there. How many Tx teams have been ranked #1 in the nation in the past? You have to consider that as well.

Oh yea it was SV's 3rd in 5 years. 4A 14-1 season with the loss in OT against Ryan, then went 5A to play SLC in 02 (slaughter) and SLC again in 04 (very close) Hopefully it will be 4th in 5 this year..and a win would be nice.


I think this thread was orginally about the best teams in Texas High School history. There can be many different ways to look at what constitutes a "Best Team". Is it the scoring differential? Is it the winning percentage? Is it the number of state titles? Or is it the accomplishments of one team during one season.

If you believe it is the accomplishments of one team during one season then you have to talk about the 04 Southlake Carroll Dragon team. I do not believe that any team had to play more great teams in one year than they did. Thier playoffs march was as grulling as any in history. They had to play Denton Ryan, Lufkin, Abilene, Allen, Irving, and Smithson Valley.

All of the teams that they played were ranked in the top ten in the state or region when SLC played them.

Denton Ryan had won every game they played except the two games against SLC.

Lufkin had at least 7 D1 players and only 1 loss.

Abilene was ranked #2 when they played

Allen was one of the top teams in the DFW area.

Irving was a district champ with DFW's best running back

Smithson Valley was playing in its 4th state championship game in 5 years!

The SLC team showed a heart of a champion by finding ways to win games late in the playoffs against some of the best teams in the state. Anyone who watched that team play knows that it won the games because of heart, determination, experience and a unwillingness to lose! Statiscly it may not have been the most dominationg but it won because it was driven to be the best and to win the championship for its deceased defensive Coach Charlie Stalculp. That team had dedicated itself to get to "Charlie Land" to honor the long time Defensive Coach who had lost his battle with cancer during the Spring. That team was a Champion!

[Bootsdaddy]

I'm not disputing what the West has accomplished, but it doesn't hold a candle, in depth...and as a conglomerate, to what the DFW/East Texas area teams have done.

And if you want to bicker over titles and wins...

Plano (7 Titles) 65', 67', 71', 77', 86', 87', 94'
Southlake Carroll (5 Titles) 88', 92', 93', 02', 04'
Garland (4 titles) 56', 63', 64', 99'
Ennis (4 titles) 75', 00', 01', 04'
Stephenville (4 titles) 93', 94', 98', 99'
Tyler John Tyler (2 Titles) 73', 94'
Lewisville (2 Titles) 93', 96'
Tyler Lee (2 Titles) 30', 04'
Denton Ryan (2 Titles) 01', 02'
Highland Park (2 Titles) 57', 45'

...all together the DFW/East Texas area has, I believe, 55 - big school - state titles.

Here's the rest of the list of the teams with at least one title from the DFW/East Texas Area....

South Oak Cliff
Tyler Lee
Greenville
Longview
Corsicana
Fort Worth Heights
Dallas Sunset
Arlington High
Terrell
Palestine
McKinney
Lake Highlands
Denison
Dallas Carter
Lufkin
Mesquite
Tyler Chapel Hill
Dallas Marshall
Wilmer Hutchins
Grapevine
Flower Mound Marcus
Duncanville

...no other area...i.e. West Texas/Southwest Texas/Central or Southeast Texas has more schools and/or more titles.

HENCE...the DFW/East Texas is the best region to play football. Not "dusty" West Texas.

If you want to talk about little schools....we can talk about 3A Powerhouse Celina....(4 titles) 98', 99', 00', 01'! 57 game win streak....I'm trying to think whether the Permian ever did that!!?? Uh, don't think so!!

:D DFW/East Texas....simply the best!!!


I guess it doesnt really matter at this point but you have Tyler Lee winning state approximately 30 years before the school opened...quite an achievement.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

I guess it doesnt really matter at this point but you have Tyler Lee winning state approximately 30 years before the school opened...quite an achievement.

High in 1930'...not Lee!

Thanx for the correction.

[dragonsdaddy]

bpstlw wants to depend on his dot map as his referrence, as his knowledge of the state and its variations regionally is apparently not very strong. his theory is based on drawing lines on a map. conveniently, he drew lines around areas that have had much success in hs football, and included himself in that group. using his methods in politics is branded as jerrimandering and is usually followed with fillibustering. i think this thread has been consistent along those lines. it is impossible to convince people ignorant of facts who are happily mired in their ignorance. trust me, i have typed my fingers to the bone trying. the good news is, he has drawn support from all quarters to the point that the next poster supporting his tenet will be the first. the body seals off noxious intruders with a callous. i'm not recommending same, but ignoring his idiocy will serve the same purpose. along those lines, i'm done.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

bpstlw wants to depend on his dot map as his referrence, as his knowledge of the state and its variations regionally is apparently not very strong. his theory is based on drawing lines on a map. conveniently, he drew lines around areas that have had much success in hs football, and included himself in that group. using his methods in politics is branded as jerrimandering and is usually followed with fillibustering. i think this thread has been consistent along those lines. it is impossible to convince people ignorant of facts who are happily mired in their ignorance. trust me, i have typed my fingers to the bone trying. the good news is, he has drawn support from all quarters to the point that the next poster supporting his tenet will be the first. the body seals off noxious intruders with a callous. i'm not recommending same, but ignoring his idiocy will serve the same purpose. along those lines, i'm done.

We're glad you're done! :D

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Whatever team is not, or has never been, located in the state of Ohio!!!!!

:D
__________________________________________________
Big Smile, Biggggg Smileeeeee - Mel Gibson, Lethal Weapon 3

[TheProphet]

Katy either 1997 or 2000 nothing left to say about this one

HAHAHAHA, well thats a katy fan, How bout Midland Lee 1998 with that one running back...Cedric Benson, or '88 Dallas Carter for that matter. I mean come on man, out of both those teams theres 1 professional athlete and maybe 5-6 D1 guys. And I know the katy theory of we win with teamwork, but Dallas Carter had like 11 D1 players and 3 NFL athletes on the same team. That sounds right but im goin off memory...wait, 97 had a loss...to baytown sterling or someone, even though there were guys hurt teams that lose on the field have to be omitted from the list, unless its to another candidate. Also the early 80's Yates teams, and 04 Southlake, and that 01 Madison team that lost to 01 North Shore in the game of the century. Those are way better teams than our beloved state champions...

[drgnbkr]

Whatever team is not, or has never been, located in the state of Ohio!!!!!

:D
__________________________________________________
Big Smile, Biggggg Smileeeeee - Mel Gibson, Lethal Weapon 3

Let's hear it for state pride!.... :D

[eagleike]

1. 1985 Houston Yates
1A. 2003 Noth Shore Mustangs
2. 2000 Katy Tigers
3. 2002 SLC Dragons
4. 1990 something Converse Judson Rockets
5. 1993 Aldine Eisenhower Eagles

[svrangerfan]

Yates 1985, North Shore 2003, SLC 2002 and Daingerfield 1983? were arguably the 4 most dominant teams ever. I don't think a team that lost or even tied a game or whose roster split off between college and prison should be mentioned.

[ktCarl]

HAHAHAHA, well thats a katy fan, How bout Midland Lee 1998 with that one running back...Cedric Benson, or '88 Dallas Carter for that matter. I mean come on man, out of both those teams theres 1 professional athlete and maybe 5-6 D1 guys. And I know the katy theory of we win with teamwork, but Dallas Carter had like 11 D1 players and 3 NFL athletes on the same team. That sounds right but im goin off memory...wait, 97 had a loss...to baytown sterling or someone, even though there were guys hurt teams that lose on the field have to be omitted from the list, unless its to another candidate. Also the early 80's Yates teams, and 04 Southlake, and that 01 Madison team that lost to 01 North Shore in the game of the century. Those are way better teams than our beloved state champions...

The '97 Katy team lost a non-district game to Langham Creek at Pridgeon stadium. Katy must have had 5 turnovers or something like that. But they dominated everyone except IKE in the playoffs.

[CCBoy]

Yates 1985, North Shore 2003, SLC 2002 and Daingerfield 1983? were arguably the 4 most dominant teams ever. I don't think a team that lost or even tied a game or whose roster split off between college and prison should be mentioned.
The origin of this post said, "Greatest High School football Team Ever", and if you ask me, two guys going to prison and one to bootcamp in the offseason does still qualify. It seems that you only want certain teams to qualify. So if a team didn't have this going on then they would be considered. These players had high profile cases because the few that did what they did were big time players but the thread is asking about the greatest team not the best church congregation.

[PLANO4EVER]

Well, there's alot of us out here, then!! Support what you will, I have my opinion and you, yours. As far as describing 75-80% of the districts...that's my point. They're located where? DFW/East Texas

As far as Plano going to West Texas...PLano Wildcats met Permian only twice in the playoffs in the last 25 years...twice.

And they lost both times....1994 and 1987....

Lee beat Plano in 83'...Ill give you that.

Rarely does Permian or Lee face DFW/East Texas teams and win. Now they played the central teams...like Converse Judson or Austin Westlake...and lost there as well. No wait they one won final against Judson.

Don't give me any of this bi-district, regional and quarterfinals crap....LEe and Permian both, have failed more times then not, when it comes to the big games...semi-final and final.

They're power houses because, on a regular basis, they play nobody's!!!!
First round, second round, third round nobody's...then they get to the competition and choke, either in the semi-final and final. Lee has carried the West Texas region, because Perminan has fallen off. They have done crap in over 15 years....AND THEY KNOW THAT!!!...Getting embarrassed, by a blowout, last year to Lee.

Plano has never lost to Odessa Permian.They met 4 times in the semi-finals.

[mudderwasamudder]

93 Ike team was greattttt! How bout 1990 Aldine team as well.

[mike03car]

Dude has Van Winkle'd the past 5 years

[Rook]

How can CC be placed in the GHA geographical region when it is 4 hours from Katy and SA is 2:15 mins? Sounds to me like the folks servin' the pie are also slicing the pie.

When did Garland beat Katy in 2000?

Mid Lee in 1930?

[Rook]

93 Ike team was greattttt! How bout 1990 Aldine team as well.

What was that QB's name? Eric Gray? Didn't he get shot like 5 or 6 times and left for dead in a ditch the summer before his senior year?

[yankee]

Plano has never lost to Odessa Permian.They met 4 times in the semi-finals.

thanks for the blast from the past, noob.

[Super B]

To decide the greatest team on any level in any sport you must:

1) Judge which decade of that sport is the greatest.
2) Then judge the team by the quality of their opponent(s).
3) And, finally, that team must stand above every great team of every decade.

The question is...

What is the Single Greatest Texas High School Football Team of All-Time??? (Example: 88' Carter)

This is a tough one...

:D Goodluck boys and girls!! And...play nice!!
It would be nice if it were that simple, but it is not. It's all relative. SOS for example is not does not necessarily play into it, because it is possible that the best team ever did not play another team anywhere close to them, and since as it happened they never had the opportunity for whatever reason to play the 2nd, 3rd, 4th best teams of that year for whatever reason (diff divisions, those teams were upset B4 they faced them, different class), that should not automatically DQ them from consideration. Decade? I don't see what that has to do with anything. Who is to say the '70's was better or worse than the '90's?

So if you just want our opinion, that's cool. It's just not scientific. It's just our opinion.

'88 Carter was perhaps the most talented team, but the best? Who knows.

To me it's more fun to talk about who was the most dominant team. Although there is no argument about that.

'83 Dangerfield Tigers (3A) 16-0 (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9owTM9SyH0))


Finished 3rd in National Poll
First team ever to go 16-0
8 points allowed ALL SEASON (NONE BY THE DEFENSE!)
The 8 points given up were by the offense (a safety bad snap over the punters head into the endzone & and pick 6 on a tipped ball)
14 shutouts (13 in a row)
Zer0 points allowed in the playoffs (outscored playoffs opponents 246-0)
The defense scored 76 points
Dangerfield outscored opponents 631-8
64 takeaways (38 Int's, 26 fumble recoveries)

limited opponents to an average of less than 1 foot per play (64.8 ypg)

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Plano has never lost to Odessa Permian.They met 4 times in the semi-finals.

Fail. I stated (in 2005) that Plano had played Permian twice (IN THE PAST 25 YRS IN THE PLAYOFFS - 1985 to 2005) and won both times. (My statement might look like I was saying Permian won, but I fully knew and meant Plano won, not Permian). I said (back in 2005) very rarely has West Texas teams come to the DFW area and win. Obviously, Abilene won a Title 4 yrs later... going thru the DF-Dub.

Not sure why you brought up a 5-yr old thread, to clown me... but you just slapped yourself in the face. Baffled.

[mike03car]

Not sure why you brought up a 5-yr old thread, to clown me... but you just slapped yourself in the face. Baffled.

The dude registered less than two months ago and is catching up from the very deepest pits of the archives ;)

[ray1301]

Carter's opponents were far more dominant than Permian's 89' opponents.

THAT'S MY POINT!! When you're basing your argument, you're also saying Permian has to play and/or played as tough, if not tougher opponents that year. You'd be hard pressed, in 1988, to find tougher schools then that of Permian, Marshall and Duncanville!!

Personally, year in and year out, for probably the last 20 years, the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite. In these regions these teams have to play each other 3, 4 and 5 times during the regular season, let alone the playoffs!

So my great teams will come from these regions! :D

This is no suprise:rolleyes:

[mojotrain]

The best football team of all time has been said over and over again by those that have seen the 1988 Carter Cowboys. You either hate them and have every excuse in the world why they shouln't be or you love them and recognize that there has never been a team like this on the football field ever. Off the field a few guys messed up but on the field without a doubt they are the best.

I saw Carter beat Permian and I saw Jack Yates beat Permian. I neither attended Carter or Jack Yates nor have never supported either, I don't have relatives that attended either school. I don't like or dislike either one of them. Seeing both is the only thing I have to go by.Carter could not have held a candle to Jack Yates.

[mojotrain]

Carter's opponents were far more dominant than Permian's 89' opponents.

THAT'S MY POINT!! When you're basing your argument, you're also saying Permian has to play and/or played as tough, if not tougher opponents that year. You'd be hard pressed, in 1988, to find tougher schools then that of Permian, Marshall and Duncanville!!

Personally, year in and year out, for probably the last 20 years, the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite. In these regions these teams have to play each other 3, 4 and 5 times during the regular season, let alone the playoffs!

So my great teams will come from these regions! :D


Your "All time match ups selections' also lean towards this reasoning. They don't give Judson, Lee or Permian Credit.

The thread was one of those forever questions but is limited now by a SOS guideline of the last 20 years.

[Super B]

Oops. I didn't realize this thread was that old.

[Rook]

This is no suprise:rolleyes:

So he says, "Personally, year in and year out, for probably the "last 20 years" (lets put an update on the time frame), the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite"

1) Carter has not been dominant year in and year out at any point in the last twenty years...
2) How can Stephenville be classified DFW/East Texas...how far is Stephenville from Tyler? I guess Katy and Judson are both GHA seeing as Katy is 2:15 from SA
3) If the most dominant teams come from DFW or East Texas...I have to ask exactly when and for how many of the last twenty years has Tyler Lee, Oak Cliff, TJT, SOC, Mesquite and North Mesquite "dominated"?
4) What does dominant mean? I thought it meant year in and year out always there, almost always, making deep runs? Winning or playing for state? Is 2-8 dominant?
5) Maybe dominant would mean making the playoffs every year covering the last 20 years
6) Maybe dominant would mean making a title game appearance in at least five of the last twenty
7) Can a team who hasn't won a single title in the last twenty years be considered dominant over that same time frame?
8) Which of the teams he listed are in the top 10 for 5A wins covering the period he established
9) Criteria to establish what Dominant means would be nice.
10) Who has the most dominant 5A program over the last twenty year?
11) Which 5A program has made it to the playoffs the most times in the last 20 yrs?
12) Which has made it to the 4th round, 5th round, and finals the most in the last 20 yrs
13) Which has won the most 5A titles in the last 20 years?
14) Could you answer Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite, to questions 11, 12, and 13...then I'd have to say there are more "dominant teams year in and year out" then the ones he named.

[NeverIsNow]

Didn't Dallas Carter tie a game in 1988?

And didn't they barely squeak by a 12-2 Odessa Permian team?

[grayowl60]

How can CC be placed in the GHA geographical region when it is 4 hours from Katy and SA is 2:15 mins? Sounds to me like the folks servin' the pie are also slicing the pie.

When did Garland beat Katy in 2000?

Mid Lee in 1930?
Looking at this post I never saw a claim that Garland beat Katy in 2000. I AM CLAIMING GARLAND BEAT KATY in 1999.

Did "Mid Lee" exist in 1930? Hmmm... duh

What the .... are you talking about?

[jaghead]

I say the 1983 Daingerfield squad was as good as any if you talk about dominating both sides of the line. I think only one team scored on them that year and they set a national scoring record?? I'm sure somebody will look this up, but I do recall them being a dominant team.

http://www.tdtnews.com/story/2010/12/18/71126

they allowed zero points in the playoffs and the defense allowed zero points for the entire season....the 8 points scored were a safety and a pick 6
they outscored opponents 631-8

[BlackAttack]

Didn't Dallas Carter tie a game in 1988?

And didn't they barely squeak by a 12-2 Odessa Permian team?

And barely squeaked by Marshall the week before.

[BlackAttack]

This thread is great, if for no other reason than it exposed the fact the thegreatone used to post under another username. A username that was proven to be a blithering idiot. Is that what prompted the name change?

:rofl:

[ThEgReAtOnE]

So he says, "Personally, year in and year out, for probably the "last 20 years" (lets put an update on the time frame), the most dominant teams, based on region and districts, have come from DFW and East Texas areas. Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite"

1) Carter has not been dominant year in and year out at any point in the last twenty years...
2) How can Stephenville be classified DFW/East Texas...how far is Stephenville from Tyler? I guess Katy and Judson are both GHA seeing as Katy is 2:15 from SA
3) If the most dominant teams come from DFW or East Texas...I have to ask exactly when and for how many of the last twenty years has Tyler Lee, Oak Cliff, TJT, SOC, Mesquite and North Mesquite "dominated"?
4) What does dominant mean? I thought it meant year in and year out always there, almost always, making deep runs? Winning or playing for state? Is 2-8 dominant?
5) Maybe dominant would mean making the playoffs every year covering the last 20 years
6) Maybe dominant would mean making a title game appearance in at least five of the last twenty
7) Can a team who hasn't won a single title in the last twenty years be considered dominant over that same time frame?
8) Which of the teams he listed are in the top 10 for 5A wins covering the period he established
9) Criteria to establish what Dominant means would be nice.
10) Who has the most dominant 5A program over the last twenty year?
11) Which 5A program has made it to the playoffs the most times in the last 20 yrs?
12) Which has made it to the 4th round, 5th round, and finals the most in the last 20 yrs
13) Which has won the most 5A titles in the last 20 years?
14) Could you answer Carter, Stephenville, Longview, Plano, Tyler John Tyler, Garland, Lewisville, Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, Tyler Lee, Lake Highlands, Highland Park, South Oak Cliff, Mesquite and North Mesquite, to questions 11, 12, and 13...then I'd have to say there are more "dominant teams year in and year out" then the ones he named.

Never said EACH were year in and year out... I said "based on region and district".

1. In 2005, Carter had gone...

13-2 in 1982
10-0-1 in 1984
10-2 in 1986
14-0-1 in 1988 (beat Judson 31-14 to win 5A Title.. before being stripped by UIL)
12-2 in 1990
12-2 in 1991
11-1 in 1993
10-2 in 1995
11-1 in 2002
12-1 in 2003
10-2 in 2004
11-1 in 2005

... since 1980. They only had 2 losing records (1980, 1981). 6 11-win seasons in 15 yrs isn't exactly scrubbish! Just think... Lake Travis was nothing in 2005... now, they've won 4 straight 4A Titles. They're (LT), now, what Stephenville was in the 1990's!

2. If Beaumont and Huntsville are apart of the GHA, Stephenville is easily apart of the DF-Dub. Eye of the beholder, I guess! And yes, I'd say Katy is in the fabric of the GHA. So, likely, would about 5-6 million other GHA residents!

3. Remember, this was in 2005...

John Tyler (won 5A title in 1994/12 playoff appearances/2 title game appearances)
SOC (went 10-1 in 1997 and went 9-3/was a td from tying 4A power, Everman, in 2004)
Mesquite (won 5A title in 2001/10 playoff appearances)
North Mesquite (was ranked Pre-Season #1 in Nation by ESPN in 1996/13 playoff appearances... 1995/1996 squads were BEASTLY!!!)

... these were based on from 1980 to 2005.

4. Dominant - FOR AN AREA - means several different teams always winning state titles. I wouldn't classify the GHA as being more dominant than the DF-Dub area, over the past 30 yrs. Why? Lake Highlands, Plano, Carter, Flower Mound, Lewisville, Duncanville, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, Euless Trinity, Allen, Southlake Carroll >>> Yates, Katy, North Shore, Pearland, Aldine, West Brook!

5. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

6. Depends on how you want DOMINANT to be applied (area, district, program).

7. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

8. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

9. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

10. Most dominant 5A program over the past 20 yrs, from 2011 = Katy

11. Katy

12. Katy

13. Katy

14. No. Never said those particular teams were to be viewed individually. My mindset was to show the DOMINANCE of the DF-Dub (DFW) area.

Questions for you....

Which number is greater: 19 or 10? How about 11 or 6?

Area > individual program... hence, the point of my comment.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Looking at this post I never saw a claim that Garland beat Katy in 2000. I AM CLAIMING GARLAND BEAT KATY in 1999.

Did "Mid Lee" exist in 1930? Hmmm... duh

What the .... are you talking about?

He is talking about nothing. The point is to TROLL you into replying a pointless post/question. Everyone - with a brain bigger than an Oreo - knew/knows exactly what you meant.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

This thread is great, if for no other reason than it exposed the fact the thegreatone used to post under another username. A username that was proven to be a blithering idiot. Is that what prompted the name change?

:rofl:

http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/wtf-logo-big.jpg

[Rook]

Looking at this post I never saw a claim that Garland beat Katy in 2000. I AM CLAIMING GARLAND BEAT KATY in 1999.

Did "Mid Lee" exist in 1930? Hmmm... duh

What the .... are you talking about?

What makes you think any of my post was addressed to you? Did I quote you? :rolleyes:

[grayowl60]

What makes you think any of my post was addressed to you? Did I quote you? :rolleyes:
Again.. read carefully and try to understand...ok. Your post said when did Garland beat Katy in 2000...OK, with me so far dumb a..? My answere was , who claimed they DID. Got it? Now run along and play

[Rook]

Never said EACH were year in and year out... I said "based on region and district".

1. In 2005, Carter had gone...

13-2 in 1982 doesn't matter b/c it is outside of your criteria
10-0-1 in 1984" "
10-2 in 1986
14-0-1 in 1988 (beat Judson 31-14 to win 5A Title.. before being stripped Why did they get stripped?by UIL)
12-2 in 1990
12-2 in 1991
11-1 in 1993
10-2 in 1995
11-1 in 2002
12-1 in 2003
10-2 in 2004
11-1 in 2005

... since 1980. They only had 2 losing records (1980, 1981). 6 11-win seasons in 15 yrs isn't exactly scrubbish I agree they are good, arguably very good but IMO there are more dominant teams during the time frame in question! Just think... Lake Travis was nothing in 2005... now, they've won 4 straight 4A Titles. They're (LT), now, what Stephenville was in the 1990's! I admit I guess I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought you were talking about teams that were "year in and year out" dominant those were your exact words that is why I quoted you. It sounds to me like you are talking about Dynasties.

2. If Beaumont and Huntsville are apart of the GHA, Stephenville is easily apart of the DF-Dub. Eye of the beholder, I guess! And yes, I'd say Katy is in the fabric of the GHA. So, likely, would about 5-6 million other GHA residents! IMO Denton, Stephenville, Tyler and anywhere else that isn't a suburb of DFW or Houston during the time in question should not be considered part of said area. Yes that means IMO Beaumont, CC, Lufkin or any other place thrown into the GHA should not be included as GHA.

3. Remember, this was in 2005...I was aware that this was 2005 this is why a said let update the time frame in my post.

John Tyler (won 5A title in 1994/12 playoff appearances/2 title game appearances)Great for those years but you said, "dominant year in and year out for 20 years"
SOC (went 10-1 in 1997 and went 9-3/was a td from tying 4A power, Everman, in 2004)Good for those years but you said, "dominant year in and year out for 20 years"
Mesquite (won 5A title in 2001/10 playoff appearances)This is a valid argument
North Mesquite (was ranked Pre-Season #1 in Nation by ESPN in 1996/13 playoff appearances... 1995/1996 squads were BEASTLY!!!)This is a valid argument

... these were based on from 1980 to 2005. I thought it was supposed to be from 85 or 86 to 04 or 05

4. Dominant - FOR AN AREA - means several different teams always winning state titles. I wouldn't classify the GHA as being more dominant than the DF-Dub area I wouldn't either, over the past 30 yrs. Why? Lake Highlands, Plano, Carter, Flower Mound, Lewisville, Duncanville, Mesquite, Cedar Hill, Euless Trinity, Allen, Southlake Carroll >>> Yates, Katy, North Shore, Pearland, Aldine, West Brook!

5. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied. I admit I missed that. If you outlined your basis for what dominant is I missed it, would you mind telling me where that is?

6. Depends on how you want DOMINANT to be applied (area, district, program).

7. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

8. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

9. I've explained how I meant DOMINANT to be applied.

10. Most dominant 5A program over the past 20 yrs, from 2011 = Katy

11. Katy

12. Katy

13. Katy

14. No. Never said those particular teams were to be viewed individually. My mindset was to show the DOMINANCE of the DF-Dub (DFW) area. That has been your mindset since '05 and is still your mindset today. I am not questioning whether or not you have changed your mind, I just wanted clarification on what your definition of dominance is and what you use to define Geographic boundaries.


Questions for you....

Which number is greater: 19 or 10 19? How about 11 or 6 6?

Area > individual program... hence, the point of my comment.

My apologies I thought the discussion was about the greatest 5A team ever and then it digressed to the "year in and year out most dominant teams in TX come from DFW".

[Rook]

Again.. read carefully and try to understand...ok. Your post said when did Garland beat Katy in 2000...OK, with me so far dumb a..? My answere was , who claimed they DID. Got it? Now run along and play

Please learn how to type, spell, and write before you call your daddy a dumb...If you had these fundamental skills, your ability to carry on an online discussion would be greatly improved. Furthermore, if you had this elementary skill set your audience would not have to, "read carefully and try to understand" b/c comprehension would be the natural result of your post.

Your inability to comprehend is only surpassed by your lack of class which quite frankly takes a backseat to your ignorance. Your need to use curse words only elaborates your inability to create an intellectually sound argument. Do you lack the critical thinking skills to address another adult in a refined manor? Or were you just raised w/o the values and respect required to do so? I bet your mother is proud!

Now to address your question again, I did not quote you so, where do you get that I implied I was talking to you? I'm still not talking to you, I'm talking down to you. Are you that egotistical to think that every comment made about Garland is about you? The individual who made the comment has already addressed it. The individual who it was addressed to has already responded.

By the way do you know what the difference b/t a post and a thread is?

Along with manors, respect, and class it appears your mom forgot to teach you how to get a clue. Hopefully my "post" helps w/ that.

[grayowl60]

Please learn how to type, spell, and write before you call your daddy a dumb...If you had these fundamental skills, your ability to carry on an online discussion would be greatly improved. Furthermore, if you had this elementary skill set your audience would not have to, "read carefully and try to understand" b/c comprehension would be the natural result of your post.

Your inability to comprehend is only surpassed by your lack of class which quite frankly takes a backseat to your ignorance. Your need to use curse words only elaborates your inability to create an intellectually sound argument. Do you lack the critical thinking skills to address another adult in a refined manor? Or were you just raised w/o the values and respect required to do so? I bet your mother is proud!

Now to address your question again, I did not quote you so, where do you get that I implied I was talking to you? I'm still not talking to you, I'm talking down to you. Are you that egotistical to think that every comment made about Garland is about you? The individual who made the comment has already addressed it. The individual who it was addressed to has already responded.

By the way do you know what the difference b/t a post and a thread is?

Along with manors, respect, and class it appears your mom forgot to teach you how to get a clue. Hopefully my "post" helps w/ that.
WOW you are a TRUE genius
No, your post was an open question, dont care if you were addressing it to me or not. "When did Garland beat Katy in 2000" HELLO?. Now with all your intellect... Answere this: WHO CLAIMED THEY DID, WHERE?!!!! Should be a simple question for someone of your self proclaimed SMARTS.
And where did the "Mid Lee 1980" assinine comment come from?
Can you answere.... please do after you check the spelling... punk

[Rook]

WOW you are a TRUE genius
No, your post was an open question, dont care if you were addressing it to me or not. "When did Garland beat Katy in 2000" HELLO?. Now with all your intellect... Answere this: WHO CLAIMED THEY DID, WHERE?!!!! Should be a simple question for someone of your self proclaimed SMARTS.
And where did the "Mid Lee 1980" assinine comment come from?
Can you answere.... please do after you check the spelling... punk

I apologize but I think it is in all of our best interest if you uncover who said these things and where for yourself. It is my belief that if your illiterate mind is preoccupied with uncovering who and when these fallacies were stated the rest of us can revert back to enjoying legible post by the more refined.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

My apologies I thought the discussion was about the greatest 5A team ever and then it digressed to the "year in and year out most dominant teams in TX come from DFW".

Correct. I think it's no secret that I believe 2003-North Shore is the greatest team of all-time... and Plano is the greatest program of all-time. And, I'd like to think the discussion PROGRESSED to the most dominant teams in TX come from DFW (as an area, obviously).

[Rook]

Correct. I think it's no secret that I believe 2003-North Shore is the greatest team of all-time... and Plano is the greatest program of all-time. And, I'd like to think the discussion PROGRESSED to the most dominant teams in TX come from DFW (as an area, obviously).

Bold: Fair enough, I didn't mean for digressed to be taken negatively.

I wasn't aware that you think Plano is the greatest Program (that would be a good discussion in itself, off the cuff I'd say either Permian or Plano).

As for your greatest all-time team, I was under the impression that you felt like '04 SLC and '02 SLC would beat '03 NS. I guess your stance has changed, what changed your opinion?

[grayowl60]

I apologize but I think it is in all of our best interest if you uncover who said these things and where for yourself. It is my belief that if your illiterate mind is preoccupied with uncovering who and when these fallacies were stated the rest of us can revert back to enjoying legible post by the more refined.
Just what I thought and what Mr. One said, another hot shot shooting his mouth off about things he knows zero about. If you cant back up what you pop off about, you will get be called out by me and others on this board.
you are ignorant, You have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT THIS BOARD IS ABOUT AND YOUR POSTS PROVE IT. Like I have said, run along now. But if you pop off about my town or the team I support, I will light your ... up, on here or in person, your choice. I Dont think I am alone in that thought

[Rook]

Just what I thought and what Mr. One said, another hot shot shooting his mouth off about things he knows zero about. If you cant back up what you pop off about, you will get be called out by me and others on this board.
you are ignorant, You have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT THIS BOARD IS ABOUT AND YOUR POSTS PROVE IT. Like I have said, run along now. But if you pop off about my town or the team I support, I will light your ... Come on now use your words or do you lack the vocabulary, on here or in person That sounds like a physical threat, did you mean it to be?, your choice. I Dont think I am alone in that thought It will be okay princess

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRland. POP POP POP POP...you are a gum bumper POP POP. So get to lightin'! Just try to make it legible please.

You grayowl60 are an idiot POP POP. TGO is the one who made those comments? He is the one I was directing them at. Feel free to ask him if he said them.

I have read a number of ignoramus post on here but none more so then the one you just spit out. POP POP You sir are a fine example of the intellect bred in Grrrrrrrrrrrrland. POP POP

In your opinion I might not know what this board is about but one thing you have have assured me of is, I do know that you sir are illiterate and classless. POP POP :rofl:

I hope I just POP'd off enough to satisfy what ever qualifications you needed me to.

[TrinityTrojan80]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRland. POP POP POP POP...you are a gum bumper POP POP. So get to lightin'! Just try to make it legible please.

You grayowl60 are an idiot POP POP. TGO is the one who made those comments? He is the one I was directing them at. Feel free to ask him if he said them.

I have read a number of ignoramus post on here but none more so then the one you just spit out. POP POP You sir are a fine example of the intellect bred in Grrrrrrrrrrrrland. POP POP

In your opinion I might not know what this board is about but one thing you have have assured me of is, I do know that you sir are illiterate and classless. POP POP :rofl:

I hope I just POP'd off enough to satisfy what ever qualifications you needed me to.

Man you need a hug!:D

[Rook]

Man you need a hug!:D

We all do at sometime:)

[OakTreeUp-n-Out]

Give me 05 SLC all day long.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Bold: Fair enough, I didn't mean for digressed to be taken negatively.

I wasn't aware that you think Plano is the greatest Program (that would be a good discussion in itself, off the cuff I'd say either Permian or Plano).

As for your greatest all-time team, I was under the impression that you felt like '04 SLC and '02 SLC would beat '03 NS. I guess your stance has changed, what changed your opinion?

I feel that those 2 teams would give '03 NS a fight. Win? Perhaps! I think the 05 SLC team would have the best shot at beating '03 NS. 06 SLC and 06 CHILL would, too. Given more consideration, I think '88 Carter would fall short of many state champions, because of their offense. I think 85 Yates would also be in the discussion of those who could beat 03 NS.

[mojotrain]

West Texas never has, nor will they ever be regarded as the premiere region. That's laughable! Permian 89' was good, but there are 20 other teams in the 90's and 00's that would beaten them...and the Carter 88' team. Listen I never said they were the greatest team ever...I just said they were the best of the 80's and believe they were. 86' Plano is up there, Permian 89' is there, Marshall 88', La Marque 86', Yates 85'.

The toughest in state...West Texas...yeah right!! If they, and you, think/thought that, they and you are the only ones!!

:D The most dominant region over the past 20 years are out of DFW and East Texas...

Stephenville
Denton Ryan
Southlake Carroll
Lewisville
Tyler Lee
Euless Trinity
Flower Mound
Carter
Plano
Marshall
South Oak Cliff
Tyler John Tyler
Longview
Garland
Mesquite
North Mesquite
Ennis
Waco University

...just to name a few.

All these teams are or have been power houses of the region 2 area...and all but 1 has won state.

Give me a list of West Texas power houses, over the last 20 years. Who do you have Permian and Lee. Oh, maybe Cooper here and there!!

:D



We still talking the last 20 years on the"Greatest High School Football Team Ever!!!!" thread?

If the guidelines are variable, to each his own, I say, although not a record, West Texas Teams were fairly well represented at the state championship games from from 1999 through 2009. If you go back to "greatest ever,"guidlines but want to venture out to opions of SOS then 19 large class championships by LSWC speaks volumns about documented facts and not so much on bias opinions. If you wish to gleen nothing but opinions on the subject of "Greatest High School Football Team Ever" then my opinon is still Jack Yates!

[Pearland1]

2010 Pearland Oilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beat #1 and #2 Teams in state and #1 team in the nation

16-0

[mojotrain]

Im sure it was amazing to witness that talent live. However, how many NFL players did Marshall and Permian have? The point I am trying to make is it does not matter how many NFL players are on a team, if they dont play as a team and dominate every week then they do not deserve to be considered one of the best teams of all time. Looking at all the talent they had, there is no way anyone in 1988 should have come close to those guys, but they did, its not a knock on Carter, its just the way I feel. I realize I am in the minority on this topic, as many on this site and outside this site believe they were one of the greatest teams ever, I guess I am just to stubborn to believe that.

As you may know, in whizzing contest about HIGH SCHOOLS BEST Teams, one is allowed to count D-1 signees as a end-all to the fight. Permian always loses in these conditions most of their kids go on to D-2 schools or JC. :(...

[ThEgReAtOnE]

2010 Pearland Oilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beat #1 and #2 Teams in state and #1 team in the nation

16-0

Good argument! I'd like to see the 2010 Pearland Oilers vs the 2007 Katy Tigers.

[mojotrain]

All classes? Ok then I nominate Fort Hancock. State champs in 88, 89, 90 and 91 And would have been another except for some bad play calling in the 92 game. So for the decade of 88 through 97 thats at least four state championships and almost 5.

[BlackAttack]

http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/wtf-logo-big.jp

You're saying you didn't post under the name bsptlw at one time?

[ThEgReAtOnE]

You're saying you didn't post under the name bsptlw at one time?

It's been so long, I doubt it. Not sure, really. What's your concern, either way?

[mojotrain]

Midland Lee and Cedric? Anyone thinking Lee was all one running back and tumble weeds is nuts! He was outstanding and the rest of his teammates were as good or better than anyone they played. As far as HIGH SCHOOL players go there was not a better O line in the state.

[slcdragonfan]

Please learn how to type, spell, and write before you call your daddy a dumb...If you had these fundamental skills, your ability to carry on an online discussion would be greatly improved. Furthermore, if you had this elementary skill set your audience would not have to, "read carefully and try to understand" b/c comprehension would be the natural result of your post.

Your inability to comprehend is only surpassed by your lack of class which quite frankly takes a backseat to your ignorance. Your need to use curse words only elaborates your inability to create an intellectually sound argument. Do you lack the critical thinking skills to address another adult in a refined manor? Or were you just raised w/o the values and respect required to do so? I bet your mother is proud!

Now to address your question again, I did not quote you so, where do you get that I implied I was talking to you? I'm still not talking to you, I'm talking down to you. Are you that egotistical to think that every comment made about Garland is about you? The individual who made the comment has already addressed it. The individual who it was addressed to has already responded.

By the way do you know what the difference b/t a post and a thread is?

Along with manors, respect, and class it appears your mom forgot to teach you how to get a clue. Hopefully my "post" helps w/ that.

did you mean:
* Manor, the land tenure unit under manorialism, a system of land tenure and organization of the rural economy and society in parts of medieval Europe
* Manor house, the principal house of a manor
* Lord of the Manor, the feudal holder of a medieval manor
* Manor (in Colonial America), a form of tenure restricted to certain Proprietary colonies, a large estate with hereditary rights granted by Royal Charter
* Manor (in 17th century Canada), the land tenure unit under the Seigneurial system of New France

or manners? :)

Please proceed...

[grayowl60]

did you mean:
* Manor, the land tenure unit under manorialism, a system of land tenure and organization of the rural economy and society in parts of medieval Europe
* Manor house, the principal house of a manor
* Lord of the Manor, the feudal holder of a medieval manor
* Manor (in Colonial America), a form of tenure restricted to certain Proprietary colonies, a large estate with hereditary rights granted by Royal Charter
* Manor (in 17th century Canada), the land tenure unit under the Seigneurial system of New France

or manners? :)

Please proceed...
:notworthy:rofl:....:heli: Be careful... its Katy

[Rook]

did you mean:
* Manor, the land tenure unit under manorialism, a system of land tenure and organization of the rural economy and society in parts of medieval Europe
* Manor house, the principal house of a manor
* Lord of the Manor, the feudal holder of a medieval manor
* Manor (in Colonial America), a form of tenure restricted to certain Proprietary colonies, a large estate with hereditary rights granted by Royal Charter
* Manor (in 17th century Canada), the land tenure unit under the Seigneurial system of New France

or manners? :)

Please proceed...

Good one:) I guess it is safe to assume that that you at least understood my point. Either way the idiot it was intended for understood my point.

[grayowl60]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRland. POP POP POP POP...you are a gum bumper POP POP. So get to lightin'! Just try to make it legible please.

You grayowl60 are an idiot POP POP. TGO is the one who made those comments? He is the one I was directing them at. Feel free to ask him if he said them.

I have read a number of ignoramus post on here but none more so then the one you just spit out. POP POP You sir are a fine example of the intellect bred in Grrrrrrrrrrrrland. POP POP

In your opinion I might not know what this board is about but one thing you have have assured me of is, I do know that you sir are illiterate and classless. POP POP :rofl:

I hope I just POP'd off enough to satisfy what ever qualifications you needed me to.
LMAO!! No threat. a promise! Maybe you should move to Plano:yes:

[Rook]

I feel that those 2 teams would give '03 NS a fight. Win? Perhaps! I think the 05 SLC team would have the best shot at beating '03 NS. 06 SLC and 06 CHILL would, too. Given more consideration, I think '88 Carter would fall short of many state champions, because of their offense. I think 85 Yates would also be in the discussion of those who could beat 03 NS.

I was basing my question off of a another thread where you said the
'02 SLC team would beat the '03 NS team and the '04 SLC team would beat them both. I have no problem with you or anyone changing their opinion/mind I'm interested to know though, what led you to change yours?

'88 Carter was before my time, why did they have to forfeit? I know about the off the field stuff but I've never heard why they forfeited the game.

IYO who would you say is the best bridesmaid over the last 20 years?

Any thoughts on the Temple teams of the early 90's?

[grayowl60]

Please learn how to type, spell, and write before you call your daddy a dumb...If you had these fundamental skills, your ability to carry on an online discussion would be greatly improved. Furthermore, if you had this elementary skill set your audience would not have to, "read carefully and try to understand" b/c comprehension would be the natural result of your post.

Your inability to comprehend is only surpassed by your lack of class which quite frankly takes a backseat to your ignorance. Your need to use curse words only elaborates your inability to create an intellectually sound argument. Do you lack the critical thinking skills to address another adult in a refined manor? Or were you just raised w/o the values and respect required to do so? I bet your mother is proud!

Now to address your question again, I did not quote you so, where do you get that I implied I was talking to you? I'm still not talking to you, I'm talking down to you. Are you that egotistical to think that every comment made about Garland is about you? The individual who made the comment has already addressed it. The individual who it was addressed to has already responded.

By the way do you know what the difference b/t a post and a thread is?

Along with manors, respect, and class it appears your mom forgot to teach you how to get a clue. Hopefully my "post" helps w/ that.
My Mom? how old are you? If she hung around the west side of Houston I might KNOW your Mom

[WestlandTiger'95]

Hey greyowl...:rolleyes:here ya go

I like the arguments I'm hearing! I wanna hear more!!

Oh, and are you sure about the 99' Garland vs 03' Katy game? G-Town was strong...especially defensively. And they beat a Katy 00' team that alot of people have talked about on this site as being on the toughest Katy has had.

Don't forget to play survivor football!!

This is what he was questioning him about. it wasnt directed at you. A little homework never hurt anybody:o

[Rook]

LMAO!! No threat. a promise! Maybe you should move to Plano:yes:

I thought you might back down from the threat.

I'm perfectly happy in God's Country where I can enjoy my Tigers in person but if you are ever in Katy feel free to give me shout.:) I'll take you to a Katy game.

[Rook]

My Mom? how old are you? If she hung around the west side of Houston I might KNOW your Mom

Nothingness

[mudderwasamudder]

Hey greyowl...:rolleyes:here ya go



This is what he was questioning him about. it wasnt directed at you. A little homework never hurt anybody:o

Rook told him this at least half a dozen times, the man simply wont listen. Its a fun argument to watch though, this board has been getting boring

[Rook]

Rook told him this at least half a dozen times, the man simply wont listen. Its a fun argument to watch though, this board has been getting boring

Hey Mud

Do you have an opine on the greatest team over the last 20 or?

Do you remember what the name of that Aldine QB was? Eric Gray? I swear I remember reading something about him getting shot several times before his senior season started.

[slcdragonfan]

Good one:) I guess it is safe to assume that that you at least understood my point. Either way the idiot it was intended for understood my point.

yeah, I saw your name "rook" and thought of the crenelated parapets that were in castles and then went to the idea of baronies and castles and then began to wonder about what time period "manor" houses came into being. From there I then remembered that my Grandmother lived off of Manor Drive in Austin, and at that point, my wife startled me into current reality, and I realized we still have about 4 months until Spring ball. :o

After meandering (doddering my kids would imply) off, I then found myself back at the keyboard, writing you this missive, and simultaneously wondering if there was a point to this or my previous post. In fact, it is only stream of conscious living, which thence takes me to "As I Lay Dying" and lo' off again he is.....

[mudderwasamudder]

Hey Mud

Do you have an opine on the greatest team over the last 20 or?

Do you remember what the name of that Aldine QB was? Eric Gray? I swear I remember reading something about him getting shot several times before his senior season started.

A little before my time. And I'd say 03 NS, 05 SLC, the 90 Aldine team, 99 Midland Lee, hell I'd throw in this years Pearland team in the discussion. If I have to pick though, im going with 03 North Shore.

[Rook]

yeah, I saw your name "rook" and thought of the crenelated parapets that were in castles and then went to the idea of baronies and castles and then began to wonder about what time period "manor" houses came into being. From there I then remembered that my Grandmother lived off of Manor Drive in Austin, and at that point, my wife startled me into current reality, and I realized we still have about 4 months until Spring ball. :o

After meandering (doddering my kids would imply) off, I then found myself back at the keyboard, writing you this missive, and simultaneously wondering if there was a point to this or my previous post. In fact, it is only stream of conscious living, which thence takes me to "As I Lay Dying" and lo' off again he is.....

:rofl:

Do your lips move when you talk to yourself? I remember how my dad would do that more and more the older he became.

I asked him why he talked to himself and he told me, "I talk to myself for two reasons 1) I love to talk to a smart man and 2) I love to listen to a smart man talk"

[Rook]

A little before my time. And I'd say 03 NS, 05 SLC, the 90 Aldine team, hell I'd throw in this years Pearland team in the discussion.

The thing about this years Pland team being included:

I say yes b/c of who they beat and how they always made the plays when they needed to be made.

I say no b/c of their defense (I know some aren't going to like that but it is JMO) and b/c they were not dominant in the way they beat people. Sure there were teams they dominated but for the most part they were not a team that I would consider dominant. Winner yes dominant no.

All the teams that are being considered were winners but not all were dominant.

I'd say one could argue they should be in the discussion.

[mudderwasamudder]

The thing about this years Pland team being included:

I say yes b/c of who they beat and how they always made the plays when they needed to be made.

I say no b/c of their defense (I know some aren't going to like that but it is JMO) and b/c they were not dominant in the way they beat people. Sure there were teams they dominated but for the most part they were not a team that I would consider dominant. Winner yes dominant no.

All the teams that are being considered were winners but not all were dominant.

I'd say one could argue they should be in the discussion.

I. Put them in the convo because of who they beat, but I think (hope maxtor doesn't get on me for this) regardless of SOS to be in the discussion you need to have pretty handily beat everyone you played atleast until late in the PO'S.

[grayowl60]

Hey greyowl...:rolleyes:here ya go



This is what he was questioning him about. it wasnt directed at you. A little homework never hurt anybody:o
Oh I see! The wise ...was poping off about a TYPO, Makes perfect sense now! What about the "Mid Lee" garbage?
And if you do your homework, check it out,. It was an open question not addressed to anybody, I never said it was directed at me. But it was about facts I know about. Just wanted to know who said it. Sounds like the trash of katy got going on it

[slcdragonfan]

:rofl:

Do your lips move when you talk to yourself? I remember how my dad would do that more and more the older he became.

I asked him why he talked to himself and he told me, "I talk to myself for two reasons 1) I love to talk to a smart man and 2) I love to listen to a smart man talk"

not yet....
but I agree with his basic premise....

[slcdragonfan]

I. Put them in the convo because of who they beat, but I think (hope maxtor doesn't get on me for this) regardless of SOS to be in the discussion you need to have pretty handily beat everyone you played atleast until late in the PO'S.

I'll agree they are the greatest Pearland team ever....

[mudderwasamudder]

I'll agree they are the greatest Pearland team ever....

Haha, its between 05 SLC, and 03 NS, im going with the sho just cause im partial to the GHA

[slcdragonfan]

Haha, its between 05 SLC, and 03 NS, im going with the sho just cause im partial to the GHA

I am totally impartial in this, I am going with '05 SLC. :)

[Rook]

Oh I see! The wise ...was poping off about a TYPO, Makes perfect sense now! What about the "Mid Lee" garbage?
And if you do your homework, check it out,. It was an open question not addresses to anybody, I never said it was directed at me. But it was about facts I know about. Just wanted to know who said it. Sounds like the trash of katy got going on it

Hopefully this will be the end of this and you can crawl back into the drainage ditch you came from.

TGO and I had a little banter going awhile back about incorrect facts on different threads. My post in this thread was ad lib about that banter, the banter between TGO and I. Clearly, you thought someone was taking a shot at you (or Garland) or you wouldn't have become so defensive about it. You didn't know what you were talking about and you overreacted, this is why you started using curse words and all caps. You misread the situation and are not man enough to admit it.

Had you simply requested the answers you sought in a more refined "manner" I would have given them to you without the lesson you forced me to impress upon you.

I have hence offered different post with other individuals not about this chain of post b/t you and I, feel free to do the same. I do not desire to withhold your pride from you any longer. You have the info. you sought, you have the answers to the questions you requested, please move on with your life.

[Rook]

I am totally impartial in this, I am going with '05 SLC. :)

Was that the best SLC offense?

Did you know any of the kids from the title teams in the early 90's?

[grayowl60]

Hopefully this will be the end of this and you can crawl back into the drainage ditch you came from.

TGO and I had a little banter going awhile back about incorrect facts on different threads. My post in this thread was ad lib about that banter, the banter between TGO and I. Clearly, you thought someone was taking a shot at you (or Garland) or you wouldn't have become so defensive about it. You didn't know what you were talking about and you overreacted, this is why you started using curse words and all caps. You misread the situation and are not man enough to admit it.

Had you simply requested the answers you sought in a more refined "manner" I would have given them to you without the lesson you forced me to impress upon you.

I have hence offered different post with other individuals not about this chain of post b/t you and I, feel free to do the same. I do not desire to withhold your pride from you any longer. You have the info. you sought, you have the answers to the questions you requested, please move on with your life.
How is your Mom doing? Tell her hello for me

[grayowl60]

Hopefully this will be the end of this and you can crawl back into the drainage ditch you came from.

TGO and I had a little banter going awhile back about incorrect facts on different threads. My post in this thread was ad lib about that banter, the banter between TGO and I. Clearly, you thought someone was taking a shot at you (or Garland) or you wouldn't have become so defensive about it. You didn't know what you were talking about and you overreacted, this is why you started using curse words and all caps. You misread the situation and are not man enough to admit it.

Had you simply requested the answers you sought in a more refined "manner" I would have given them to you without the lesson you forced me to impress upon you.

I have hence offered different post with other individuals not about this chain of post b/t you and I, feel free to do the same. I do not desire to withhold your pride from you any longer. You have the info. you sought, you have the answers to the questions you requested, please move on with your life.
See little dood, you dont have the ability to insult me, You are what you are. A punk mouth off on a high school football board. Did you ever play? Its not likely. You are a trashy little bandwagon boy. You know little about what you try to make people think you know. Carter "a little before your time" I bet thats right, and did you ever SEE the teams you spout off about? Other than Katy, how many championship games have you seen... But after seeing you POSTS its doughtful you would tell the truth. You are in fact ignorant
No I want be going down the drainage ditch. You will be seeing a lot of me. We are just starting, understand?
I am printing up your posts and will be showing them around, very funny stuff.

[slcdragonfan]

Was that the best SLC offense?

Did you know any of the kids from the title teams in the early 90's?

I moved here in 2001. SLC93 is from that era?

Actually Doc would be best suited to answer which team was the best, but folks are on record about the earlier SC teams in 3A being the best, albeit a diffferent style.

[BlueRaider03]

This kills me to say this since I'm from the North Texas area but that 85 Yates team was incredible.

[WestlandTiger'95]

Was that the best SLC offense?

Did you know any of the kids from the title teams in the early 90's?

although 2 completely different styles of offense...I think the two best SLC teams are the 93 team and the 05 team. I think that those early 90's teams could have hung with anyone at any level. Dane Johnson may be the best player that ever played at SLC IMO. Very versitile player. I'd like to hear form you lake folk where Dane and those teams rank on your list.

[Rook]

I moved here in 2001. SLC93 is from that era?

Actually Doc would be best suited to answer which team was the best, but folks are on record about the earlier SC teams in 3A being the best, albeit a diffferent style.

The QB/S back then was a Katy guy Dane Johnson. That kid was a tremendous athlete, he would have made a great addition to the '92 Katy team. I don't know if he would have played QB at Katy, I think he would have ended up playing Rover (SS). Not b/c of limitations in his skill set more or less b/c of Katy's personnel and scheme.

[Rook]

although 2 completely different styles of offense...I think the two best SLC teams are the 93 team and the 05 team. I think that those early 90's teams could have hung with anyone at any level. Dane Johnson may be the best player that ever played at SLC IMO. Very versitile player. I'd like to hear form you lake folk where Dane and those teams rank on your list.

Yep he was a great athlete.

I wonder what would have happened had he stayed at Katy and his good buddy Matthew Brayton wouldn't have quit football to go straight Basketball. IMO Brayton would have been the best QB ever at Katy, that kid was a heck of an athlete and had the best arm of any Katy QB from that era. Think Rob Peters only bigger, faster, and stronger arm.

As for Dane I think he would have ended up at Rover. FS was manned by D. Wittman who Coach Johnston said is one of the best HS athletes he's ever seen and was one of the 2 best Safeties he has ever coached. As for the Rover at that time well Dane had a much better skill set then him. Dane might have even ended up at SAM, this was a position at Katy that never really got filled that year '92 or '93.

[Point Made...]

All this makes me laugh when it's very obvious that there are serious disparities in the population pool that continue to create these "powerhouses".

Dallas and Houston will ALWAYS feel supreme to the rest of TEXAS...because they will ALWAYS have the largest population pool to work with.

When breaking down some of the "competition" that these formidable football programs play in their own district, you can almost always find that every district is full of powder-puffs that become year-round "scrimmage" for those same teams that continue to elevate their game.

That's why I look forward to seeing the "Cinderellas" (from other parts of Texas) make the "real" noise during playoffs. :D

...and it's a whole lot sweeter when the unknown's take home the hardware.

[Lights Out]

The dude registered less than two months ago and is catching up from the very deepest pits of the archives ;)

And you registered two months ago and have done nothing but run around kissing butt to anyone you can and never offering anything of substance to the board. All you do is agree with certain posters and then quote others who disagree with those posters. I have yet to see you post any opinion of your own on this board. He may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but he states his opinion and not someone else's. His 15 posts > your 800.

[Rook]

See little dood, you dont have the ability to insult me, You are what you are. A punk mouth off on a high school football board. Did you ever play? Its not likely. You are a trashy little bandwagon boy. You know little about what you try to make people think you know. Carter "a little before your time" I bet thats right, and did you ever SEE the teams you spout off about? Other than Katy, how many championship games have you seen... But after seeing you POSTS its doughtful you would tell the truth. You are in fact ignorant
No I want be going down the drainage ditch. You will be seeing a lot of me. We are just starting, understand?
I am printing up your posts and will be showing them around, very funny stuff.

Nothingness

[Rook]

How is your Mom doing? Tell her hello for me

....and more nothingness

[grayowl60]

....and more nothingness
Thier you go!! But you did respond...:Censor: You registered in September and are now and always have been an expert.... mmmm no you are not. read what TGO has to say, take notes. He has more knowledge in his little finger than you have in your pea brain.
Ask him about "The Dream Team". Maybe you will learn something. Is that possible?

[Rook]

Thier you go!! But you did respond...:Censor: You registered in September and are now and always have been an expert.... mmmm no you are not. read what TGO has to say, take notes. He has more knowledge in his little finger than you have in your pea brain.
Ask him about "The Dream Team". Maybe you will learn something. Is that possible?


......boring

and more nothingness

[Rook]

This is funny, I registered in September yet I already have a stalker. Guess who has been checking out my public profile....

sssshhhh wait for it, wait for it

[Pearland Power]

Most pundits agree - the greatest high school football team, ever, was:

1985 - Jack Yates High in Houston, Texas

The offensive line averaged 311 lbs. and the defensive line was 325!

Many accusations were thrown as to the age of the players as some had kids of their own that were 5 and 6 yrs. old :)

[grayowl60]

This is funny, I registered in September yet I already have a stalker. Guess who has been checking out my public profile....

sssshhhh wait for it, wait for it
May be nothingness, but thats stupidity, check join date at the top of your little posts.... Yep I will be around hot rod

[ray1301]

May be nothingness, but thats stupidity, check join date at the top of your little posts.... Yep I will be around hot rod

What does join date have to do with anything?

[Rook]

...and like clockwork he reveals himself right on time.

Urgh... why couldn't I get a stalker with more then a GED.

[1BAD3V]

Hey Mud

Do you have an opine on the greatest team over the last 20 or?

Do you remember what the name of that Aldine QB was? Eric Gray? I swear I remember reading something about him getting shot several times before his senior season started.

Are you thinking of Doug Wommak ?(sp)

[grayowl60]

What does join date have to do with anything?
New boy knows everything

[Rook]

May be nothingness, but thats stupidity, check join date at the top of your little posts.... Yep I will be around hot rod

Correct grayowl60 I said I registered in September just like my join date declares or did you misread that post as well.

...and again more nothingness

[Rook]

Are you thinking of Doug Wommak ?(sp)

Just looked up Aldine's '90 team http://www.texashsfootball.com/board/thsfpedia/index.php/1990_District_21-5A_Season_Results

Pretty solid...notice their margin of victory and the All-state defensive players they had.

That was your senior year and also the first year of the dual division format.

Not sure about Doug Womack (sp) when did he play?

[grayowl60]

...and like clockwork he reveals himself right on time.

Urgh... why couldn't I get stalker with more then a GED.
You type and I am sure you talk a bunch and say nothing of substance.. pop off.
Now then.. lets see now. trivia Question: how many PO games has Katy won that were played in the DFW area?
good!
How many PO Games has Garland won, played in the Houston area? Same question but State Championship. Even you should be aware of one

[Rook]

Never mind Womack was the '89 QB

[Rook]

You type and I am sure you talk a bunch and say nothing of substance.. pop off.
Now then.. lets see now. trivia Question: how many PO games has Katy won that were played in the DFW area?
good!
How many PO Games has Garland won, played in the Houston area? Same question but State Championship. Even you should be aware of one

Please tell me the great grayowl60 with all his experience and knowledge doesn't have to start looking to the noobs for the answers to his problems.

[ray1301]

New boy knows everything

There are some folks on this board that joined years ago that haven't played a down of football. Join date means nothing.

[Rook]

There are some folks on this board that joined years ago that haven't played a down of football. Join date means nothing.

Did you watch the Rose Bowl?

[slcdragonfan]

There are some folks on this board that joined years ago that haven't played a down of football. Join date means nothing.

playing organized football or not means nothing as well.:)

[grayowl60]

Please tell me the great grayowl60 with all his experience and knowledge doesn't have to start looking to the noobs for the answers to his problems.
As I thought, any smarts you have ends at the end of your nose. I looked to see if you had given your age on your profile. You cant be over 18-19 years old.. you must be on lunch break or between classes. Oh BTW, I have a M.S from a Dl school

[grayowl60]

playing organized football or not means nothing as well.:)
If someone joined recently AND never played organized football, they should go to the YARD:rolleyes:

[Rook]

As I thought, any smarts you have ends at the end of your nose. I looked to see if you had given your age on your profile. You cant be over 18-19 years old.. you must be on lunch break or between classes. Oh BTW, I have a M.S from a Dl school

...nothingness

[Rook]

playing organized football or not means nothing as well.:)

Not necessarily true, it means you played. It doesn't mean you were good and it doesn't make you knowledgeable but it does mean you played.:)

[grayowl60]

Not necessarily true, it means you played. It doesn't mean you were good and it doesn't make you knowledgeable but it does mean you played.:)
You make that statement as if it were a fact. Actually it is only your opinion and judgment. Worth nothing

[Rook]

You make that statement as if it were a fact. Actually it is only your opinion and judgment. Worth nothing


You do realize stalking is a crime don't you? And stop visiting my profile page that is starting to get creepy.

[grayowl60]

You do realize stalking is a crime don't you? And stop visiting my profile page that is starting to get creepy.
Do what you need to do, and I will manage what I visit, and when I visit.
"Mid Lee 1930" duh, We are just getting started;)

[Rook]

How can CC be placed in the GHA geographical region when it is 4 hours from Katy and SA is 2:15 mins? Sounds to me like the folks servin' the pie are also slicing the pie.

When did Garland beat Katy in 2000?

Mid Lee in 1930?

Are you still unable to comprehend the Mid Lee post?

I feel like I'm throwing rocks at an empty tin can and its getting boring. "Hellooooo, Is anyone home McFly"?

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Hey greyowl...:rolleyes:here ya go



This is what he was questioning him about. it wasnt directed at you. A little homework never hurt anybody:o

Btw... just so I can make it clear... what I meant was the 1999 Garland team beat essentially the same team as the 2000 Katy team. QB-Kaspar, RB-Branch, WR-Mouton, TE-Davidson, OL-Jones, OL-Sciba, OL-Phillips, DL-Moore, LB-Nesbitt, DB-Lawrence, and DB-Joseph were all on that 1999 squad... were they not? They were all on the 2000 squad... and they all were All-State.. were they not? Many of them are considered for the all-decade Katy team. That was my point! Garland beat a very good Katy team, that returned a lot in 2000.

[grayowl60]

Are you still unable to comprehend the Mid Lee post?

I feel like I'm throwing rocks at an empty tin can and its getting boring. "Hellooooo, Is anyone home McFly"?
Why dont you post again where you "explained" that dumb assed statement.
Best I can tell it was from a TGO post that said Mid Lee. which meant Tyler Lee, actually Tyler High, So woopie, you jumped on a missprent. Typical

[grayowl60]

Btw... just so I can make it clear... what I meant was the 1999 Garland team beat essentially the same team as the 2000 Katy team. QB-Kaspar, RB-Branch, WR-Mouton, TE-Davidson, OL-Jones, OL-Sciba, OL-Phillips, DL-Moore, LB-Nesbitt, DB-Lawrence, and DB-Joseph were all on that 1999 squad... were they not? They were all on the 2000 squad... and they all were All-State.. were they not? Many of them are considered for the all-decade Katy team. That was my point! Garland beat a very good Katy team, that returned a lot in 2000.
Thank you sir. I have heard that before. I saw where you had to explain to this ah..little fella,that posted the ignorant crap ,what dominant means, from a five year old post. LMAO!
I still dont think he got it. I also told him to ask you tell him about the "dream team" so he could learn something. But he speaks Katyese and already knows everything

[Rook]

Why dont you post again where you "explained" that dumb assed statement.
Best I can tell it was from a TGO post that said Mid Lee. which meant Tyler Lee, actually Tyler High, So woopie, you jumped on a missprent. Typical

I feel like I'm throwing rocks at an empty tin can and its getting boring. "Hellooooo, Is anyone home McFly"?

[Rocketman]

The 1985 Houston Yates team was the best ever in the state of texas.......I've been watching Texas high school footbal since 1975 and that Yates team is the best that I have seen......

Now the best under sized team ever in the state of texas was the 1983 Judson team that won state they beat Yates in the semifinals that year. That was the best game I had ever seen....

[Lights Out]

Btw... just so I can make it clear... what I meant was the 1999 Garland team beat essentially the same team as the 2000 Katy team. QB-Kaspar, RB-Branch, WR-Mouton, TE-Davidson, OL-Jones, OL-Sciba, OL-Phillips, DL-Moore, LB-Nesbitt, DB-Lawrence, and DB-Joseph were all on that 1999 squad... were they not? They were all on the 2000 squad... and they all were All-State.. were they not? Many of them are considered for the all-decade Katy team. That was my point! Garland beat a very good Katy team, that returned a lot in 2000.

You are amazing.
What did you just do, go pull out your old Texas Football magazine and look at who 2000 Katy had returning?
Sure, juniors and seniors are exactly the same and Abilene is more DFW and central Texas than it is West Texas.

[Lights Out]

Why dont you post again where you "explained" that dumb assed statement.
Best I can tell it was from a TGO post that said Mid Lee. which meant Tyler Lee, actually Tyler High, So woopie, you jumped on a missprent. Typical

Actually, he commented on an inconsistency in TGO aka BSPTLW comments. He is good at contradicting himself, it's the only thing he is consistent at.

[Pearland Power]

If someone joined recently AND never played organized football, they should go to the YARD:rolleyes:

Meaningless and inane. Vince Lombardi never played a down of Pro football either - so?

[Pearland Power]

And you registered two months ago and have done nothing but run around kissing butt to anyone you can and never offering anything of substance to the board. All you do is agree with certain posters and then quote others who disagree with those posters. I have yet to see you post any opinion of your own on this board. He may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but he states his opinion and not someone else's. His 15 posts > your 800.


Cool it! Getting personal is WAY too sophomoric and has no place here!

[E-Vol-ution]

Meaningless and inane. Vince Lombardi never played a down of Pro football either - so?

He played for Fordham University in the Bronx.....same place as Skelton QB for Arizona Cardinals. (nice trivia stuff).

[ray1301]

Meaningless and inane. Vince Lombardi never played a down of Pro football either - so?

He played for Fordham U I think

[grayowl60]

Meaningless and inane. Vince Lombardi never played a down of Pro football either - so?
...NOTHINGNESS? gudgawd!

[ThEgReAtOnE]

What did you just do, go pull out your old Texas Football magazine and look at who 2000 Katy had returning?

Nope.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

Actually, he commented on an inconsistency in TGO aka BSPTLW comments. He is good at contradicting himself, it's the only thing he is consistent at.

Vague and laughable. If my "inconsistencies" bother you so much, why do you pay my posting any attention?

[grayowl60]

Vague and laughable. If my "inconsistencies" bother you so much, why do you pay my posting any attention?

:eek:....:rofl:

[LordByron]

To decide the greatest team on any level in any sport you must:

1) Judge which decade of that sport is the greatest.
2) Then judge the team by the quality of their opponent(s).
3) And, finally, that team must stand above every great team of every decade.

The question is...

What is the Single Greatest Texas High School Football Team of All-Time??? (Example: 88' Carter)

This is a tough one...

:D Goodluck boys and girls!! And...play nice!!
For me the answer is very easy. The 1956 Abilene Eagles. I saw them play a Waco Tigers team that must have outweighed them at least 30 pounds per man yet beat them something like 48 - 6. The thing I remember most about that game was that after it was over, I turned to a friend and stated that I don't remember any Waco running back falling forward after they were tackled all night long. He didn't either. The Eagles won three state championships in a row in the highest classification.

[maxtor]

The best football team of all time has been said over and over again by those that have seen the 1988 Carter Cowboys. You either hate them and have every excuse in the world why they shouln't be or you love them and recognize that there has never been a team like this on the football field ever. Off the field a few guys messed up but on the field without a doubt they are the best.
Im not sure that 1988 Carter would be among even the Top 10-15 all time best.

Beat Killleen by 1

Tied Duncanville

Beat Desoto by 7

Beat Marshall by 4

Beat Permian by 5


Here, look at this and its clear that Carter was nothing speacial compared to others. Look at 2005 and 2006 Southlake, and 2000 Katy.

http://texashsfootball.com/board/thsfpedia/index.php/Roads_to_the_Title

[Rook]

Im not sure that 1988 Carter would be among even the Top 10-15 all time best.

Beat Killleen by 1

Tied Duncanville

Beat Desoto by 7

Beat Marshall by 4

Beat Permian by 5


Here, look at this and its clear that Carter was nothing speacial compared to others. Look at 2005 and 2006 Southlake, and 2000 Katy.

http://texashsfootball.com/board/thsfpedia/index.php/Roads_to_the_Title

IYO who would win b/t '02 SLC and '06 SLC

[mojotrain]

Im not sure that 1988 Carter would be among even the Top 10-15 all time best.

Beat Killleen by 1

Tied Duncanville

Beat Desoto by 7

Beat Marshall by 4

Beat Permian by 5


Here, look at this and its clear that Carter was nothing speacial compared to others. Look at 2005 and 2006 Southlake, and 2000 Katy.

http://texashsfootball.com/board/thsfpedia/index.php/Roads_to_the_Title

i been trying to tell you guys this for years!

[grayowl60]

Btw... just so I can make it clear... what I meant was the 1999 Garland team beat essentially the same team as the 2000 Katy team. QB-Kaspar, RB-Branch, WR-Mouton, TE-Davidson, OL-Jones, OL-Sciba, OL-Phillips, DL-Moore, LB-Nesbitt, DB-Lawrence, and DB-Joseph were all on that 1999 squad... were they not? They were all on the 2000 squad... and they all were All-State.. were they not? Many of them are considered for the all-decade Katy team. That was my point! Garland beat a very good Katy team, that returned a lot in 2000.
Absolutly! That 1999 Katy team was GOOD. Very good!
Teams Garland played in 1999 in order of quality:
#1 South Grand Prairie. We were LUCKY, it counts
#2 Lufkin. Blood on the field and blood on the bus
#3 Highland Park. 1st game wake up call
#4 Katy. A very good team
This is unfair. I saw the games

[Rook]

Absolutly! That 1999 Katy team was GOOD. Very good!
Teams Garland played in 1999 in order of quality:
#1 South Grand Prairie. We were LUCKY, it counts
#2 Lufkin. Blood on the field and blood on the bus
#3 Highland Park. 1st game wake up call
#4 Katy. A very good team
#5 Undefeated untied 2000 Katy squad. Nail biter, had to be there.
This is unfair. I saw the games

fify:)

[grayowl60]

fify:)
Total ignorance. Did you notice the post was about 1999? Maybe you need a READING class... duh. Oh but I bet your little kiddie playmates are very impressed

[Rook]

Total ignorance. Did you notice the post was about 1999? Maybe you need a READING class... duh. Oh but I bet your little kiddie playmates are very impressed

:rofl:

[grayowl60]

:rofl:
Is being super cute a Katy thing?

[Rook]

Is being super cute a Katy thing?

Oh come on grayowl60 you know that was funny.:)

[grayowl60]

Oh come on grayowl60 you know that was funny.:)
No junior, its funny on a Katy thread, where you belong. Your ignorance shows when you get outside.

[Rook]

No junior, its funny on a Katy thread, where you belong. Your ignorance shows when you get outside.

Fair enough, I recognize your inability to correspond with out cursing, name calling or to take a joke. I'll will leave you to your "profound" misery.:rolleyes:

[grayowl60]

Fair enough, I recognize your inability to correspond with out cursing, name calling or to take a joke. I'll will leave you to your "profound" misery.:rolleyes:
Again hot shot, this is in response to your silly assed post (posts) and they will continue as long as you keep it going. You can always whine to moma. No cursing on my reply, again, can you read? Every post you make shows the fool you are. Stay with your Katy threads, I am sure THEY appreciate you

[slcdragonfan]

when grayowl gets a grudge, your bones will turn to dust before he lets up. :)

[grayowl60]

when grayowl gets a grudge, your bones will turn to dust before he lets up. :)
Na.. its like in the past. Some of these folks dont know or care about anything but THIER team. Knowhatimean?:notworthy

[brerrabbit]

From the Houston Chronicle 5/29/2005:

Twenty years ago this month, in May 1985, Melvin Foster, Quintin Smith, Charles Price, Johnny Bailey and Zeno Alexander walked the corridors of Jack Yates High School with the clear-eyed determination of young men on a mission.

Friends since junior high - in the case of Smith and Alexander, since kindergarten - their goal was to bring the first University Interscholastic League state football championship to Yates, the pride of the Third Ward and one of the flagship athletics programs of Houston's black community for more than 40 years.
"We knew what they said about Yates, that they could get to the big game but couldn't win it," Smith said. "But this was our time and our place, and our goal was to get to the big game, win it and leave no doubt we were the better team."
They did. On Dec. 21, 1985, the Lions crushed Odessa Permian 37-0, winning the most lopsided UIL title game among big schools in almost 30 years and becoming the first UIL 5A champion from a historically black school. They were the first 5A team to finish 16-0, and although the scoring records they set in 1985 have been surpassed, they remain arguably the best Texas high school football team of the last three decades.
Ronald Mumphery, the team's line coach, estimates that 30 of 36 seniors on the team received college scholarships.
At least 19 played four years of college football, and 21 earned degrees. At least five signed with NFL teams.
A half-dozen, including Price and Bailey, after stints in the NFL, became high school teachers or coaches.
The same number work in public safety, including Foster, who is a juvenile corrections officer in Iowa, and Alexander, who is a firefighter in Houston.
Today in their footsteps walk young men named Orie Lemon, Eli Lemon, Patrick Dorsey, Stacy Williams and Joe Scott, who, after a summer vacation that commenced last week, will compete for the Yates football team this fall. The dream is the same - as they take their stance on the practice field, today's Lions say "school," and as they take their first strides downfield, they chant "state." But the hallways of Yates High School are considerably different than in 1985.


PAST PERFECT: A SEASON OF DOMINATION
Yates' road
to the 1985 title
Regular season
•Yates 31, Washington 0
•Yates 46, West Brook 16
•Yates 26, Worthing 7
•Yates 70, Austin 0
•Yates 51, Milby 0
•Yates 27, Madison 14
•Yates 48, Sterling 6
•Yates 72, Davis 0
•Yates 13, Jones 6
•Yates 68, Wheatley 0
Playoffs
•Yates 53, Sam Houston 0
•Yates 43, Spring Woods 0
•Yates 19, West Orange-Stark 6
•Yates 21, Jones 15
•Yates 34, San Antonio Holmes 7
•Yates 37, Odessa Permian 0
Records set by the 1985 Yates Lions:
• Unbeatable: First Class 5A team to win 16 games in a season
• Groundbreaking: First team representing a predominantly black high school to win a UIL Class 5A title
• Local heroes: First Houston ISD team to win the state's largest classification since Lamar in 1953
• Emphatic ending: Largest title-game margin of victory (37 points) since 1958 and first title-game shutout since 1976 among big schools • Setting a standard: Set Class 5A records for full-season points scored (659), regular-season points scored (452) and playoff points scored (207)

Now I am basing this on one team, one year. Not a program over multiple years, although Yates was very good for a long time but just never made it deep into the playoffs very often. This was the best Texas HS team I have seen play. You almost had to witness it in person as I did. Isaw several games that year and can assure you they would dominate teams. I can't find the defensive numbers but I swear there were games where their opponent never crossed the 50 yard line. I also remember watching the state game on TV and they dominated Odessa Permian in that game.

[Rook]

Again hot shot, this is in response to your silly assed post (posts) and they will continue as long as you keep it going. You can always whine to moma. No cursing on my reply, again, can you read? Every post you make shows the fool you are. Stay with your Katy threads, I am sure THEY appreciate you


Y- a- w- n ....Nothingness

[grayowl60]

Y- a- w- n ....Nothingness
Looks like we just got started punk. Like I said you are what you are And I will keep will keep on, as long as you keep poping off.. get it? It seems difficult for you. YOU are responding, just as you did at first. You are are punk fool... next?

[Rook]

Looks like we just got started punk. Like I said you are what you are And I will keep will keep on, as long as you keep poping off.. get it? It seems difficult for you. YOU are responding, just as you did at first. You are are punk fool... next?

Name calling...really? Is that supposed to intimidate me or something? Oh no the big bad greyowl is watching and I better watch out or he will call me names:rolleyes:

Pffft...nothingness

[grayowl60]

Please learn how to type, spell, and write before you call your daddy a dumb...If you had these fundamental skills, your ability to carry on an online discussion would be greatly improved. Furthermore, if you had this elementary skill set your audience would not have to, "read carefully and try to understand" b/c comprehension would be the natural result of your post.

Your inability to comprehend is only surpassed by your lack of class which quite frankly takes a backseat to your ignorance. Your need to use curse words only elaborates your inability to create an intellectually sound argument. Do you lack the critical thinking skills to address another adult in a refined manor? Or were you just raised w/o the values and respect required to do so? I bet your mother is proud!

Now to address your question again, I did not quote you so, where do you get that I implied I was talking to you? I'm still not talking to you, I'm talking down to you. Are you that egotistical to think that every comment made about Garland is about you? The individual who made the comment has already addressed it. The individual who it was addressed to has already responded.


By the way do you know what the difference b/t a post and a thread is?

Along with manors, respect, and class it appears your mom forgot to teach you how to get a clue. Hopefully my "post" helps w/ that.
This is your defining moment, effort at personal insult, Aragance plus ignorance =trash, fool

[grayowl60]

Name calling...really? Is that supposed to intimidate me or something? Oh no the big bad greyowl is watching and I better watch out or he will call me names:rolleyes:

Pffft...nothingness
Never been called a name before? Thats doughtful. No I am.... responding like always have to garbage like you. Like I have said you are what you are and you show yourself with every post.......:rolleyes:

[Rook]

This is your defining moment, effort at personal insult, Aragance plus ignorance =trash, fool

I feel like I need to buy an Ebonics Dictionary to be able to have a conversation with you. Could you please tell me where I can find something to decipher your post at?

[Rook]

Never been called a name before? Thats doughtful. No I am.... responding like always have to garbage like you. Like I have said you are what you are and you show yourself with every post.......:rolleyes:


:rofl:I just can't help but think of you sitting there banging your head trying to come up w/ another synonym that goes along w/ trash and garbage. It makes me wonder if you are a sanitation engineer, I mean at least change it up every now and then to filth, junk or waste. Punk and fool are getting kind of old too, maybe you should use the thesaurus on your computer. Let me know if you need some help or since you are probably using the computer at the public library just ask the help desk.:rofl:

[grayowl60]

I feel like I need to buy an Ebonics Dictionary to be able to have a conversation with you. Could you please tell me where I can find something to decipher your post at?
With your intellect you shuld be able to cut right through it. There is no dought you know what I am saying... or do you? You are a cowardly mouth off hiding on a high school message board. There is no question that if you were in a social situation with me, the police would have been called by now. Now then, there are people on here that know me and know where to find me.
Ready to cowboy up? Or do you know what that means?

[grayowl60]

:rofl:I just can't help but think of you sitting there banging your head trying to come up w/ another synonym that goes along w/ trash and garbage. It makes me wonder if you are a sanitation engineer, I mean at least change it up every now and then to filth, junk or waste. Punk and fool are getting kind of old too, maybe you should use the thesaurus on your computer. Let me know if you need some help or since you are probably using the computer at the public library just ask the help desk.:rofl:
Typical, Sanitation engineer? No its garbage man even in Katy. But thats right I am a garbage man. And you are stupid. you got it....so?

[grayowl60]

I am signing off now, goint to a "joint" with some other sanitation engineers to have some adult beveregeand watch sports. I have printed some of your crap so my garbage men friends can enjoy it as much as I have. You would last about thirty seconds.