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Grapeguy
10-10-2006, 10:17 AM
I guess this is the right forum for these questions. I've been curious about how the following are recorded stat-wise:

If a punt is blocked, when is it considered a turnover? Is the point where the ball is recovered the determining factor? Must the ball be recovered behind the LOS to be a turnover?

Are all onside KOs recovered by the kicking team considered turnovers?..even if the receiving team never touches the ball?

How is yardage recorded for a running back on a spot foul? For example, an RB gains 40 yards on a carry. However, 17 yds from the LOS holding is called on an offensive player. The ball is now spotted 7 yards ahead of the original LOS and the down doesn't change. Does the RB get credited with the full 40 yds or to the point of the foul (17 yds) or is no rushing attempt recorded at all?

G-Man
10-10-2006, 02:08 PM
I guess this is the right forum for these questions. I've been curious about how the following are recorded stat-wise:

If a punt is blocked, when is it considered a turnover? Is the point where the ball is recovered the determining factor? Must the ball be recovered behind the LOS to be a turnover?

Are all onside KOs recovered by the kicking team considered turnovers?..even if the receiving team never touches the ball?

How is yardage recorded for a running back on a spot foul? For example, an RB gains 40 yards on a carry. However, 17 yds from the LOS holding is called on an offensive player. The ball is now spotted 7 yards ahead of the original LOS and the down doesn't change. Does the RB get credited with the full 40 yds or to the point of the foul (17 yds) or is no rushing attempt recorded at all?

First off, stats are recorded in different ways by different statiticians. Has to be behind los for to be a turnover. Most people consider onsides a turnover.
Most people would give the runner 7 yds without charging a carry.:)

Grapeguy
10-10-2006, 02:50 PM
First off, stats are recorded in different ways by different statiticians. Has to be behind los for to be a turnover. Most people consider onsides a turnover.
Most people would give the runner 7 yds without charging a carry.:)

That's interesting and surprising that there are no standards for recording stats. I guess that part of the reason you can see significant differences from multiple sources reporting on the same game. Thanks for the info G-Man.

dragons08
10-10-2006, 09:00 PM
That's interesting and surprising that there are no standards for recording stats. I guess that part of the reason you can see significant differences from multiple sources reporting on the same game. Thanks for the info G-Man.
ive noticed that like the "Game Stats" at DS, are different then in the newspaper, which i THINK are diff in the DMN and Star Telegram

yankee
10-11-2006, 07:55 AM
ive noticed that like the "Game Stats" at DS, are different then in the newspaper, which i THINK are diff in the DMN and Star Telegram
yeah they are different. i've compared the dmn/star telegram with my stats and they're never the same...close, but not the same.

G-Man
10-11-2006, 06:15 PM
That's interesting and surprising that there are no standards for recording stats. I guess that part of the reason you can see significant differences from multiple sources reporting on the same game. Thanks for the info G-Man.

To take it a little further, many coaches doctor their stats...as in offensive coaches only counting the positive plays i.e. not taking sacks and other losses off the total. Defensive coaches call overthrown passes as pass break ups, runner slips and falls behind the line as tackle for loss, etc... The only true stat that is reliable is the final score...W or L.

Finally, stats are not good indicators for many reasons...great QB may not have great receivers, great back may not have a line, great d line may not have any linebackers, etc... My point is...dont get hung up on stats...remember, they are the greatest of all lies.:)

KattTx
11-21-2006, 08:53 AM
"The Official NCAA Statisticians' Manual, the bible of football stat keeping since Texas high schools play by modified NCAA rules. "

I had queried regarding defensive stats earlier and one of the posters pointed me to the above point of reference. Obviously not a regulatory manual for us, but should be the manner in which Texas High Schools calculate stats. NOT that any two teams figure stats in the same way, though. :rolleyes:

jrock210
11-24-2006, 01:59 AM
is it illegal downing if the ball doesnt make it past the line of scrimage?

dragons08
11-25-2006, 12:59 AM
is it illegal downing if the ball doesnt make it past the line of scrimage?
huh?

you mean like a spike?

elkfbfan
11-25-2006, 12:55 PM
In regard to earlier ? about off. stats- if on a 40 yd. run, a penalty is called 17 yrds from LOS, the runner should be credited with a 17 yd gain, not 7. Same thing on punt & KO returns. Each newspaper probably has their own guy keeping stats, hence the minor differences. The closer the newspaper is to the team, generally the more accurate the stats. I keep stats in my head as the game goes on, something I started doing in high school while standing on the sidelines as a non playing scrub. In my case, I find the stats kept by my local newspaper( Burleson Star) to be more accurate than Ft. Worth Star-Telegram, which are more accurate than DMN( farther away). Hometown papers tend to give credit to the proper player, not mixing up the uniform numbers, which non hometown papers sometimes do. Coaches stats do tend to be inflated, both offense & defensive- stats called into the paper by coaches are almost always higher than those kept by newspapers themselves. At the high school level, there often is no " Official" statistician, so it is hard to get "official" stats.

jrock210
11-25-2006, 01:15 PM
huh?

you mean like a spike?
ya thats what i meant i couldnt think of what it was called...say u throw the ball to stop time and u get rid of it on the far side of ythe field like near the sidelines is that intentional grounding or what???

ssorry its kinda confusing

dragons08
11-25-2006, 11:33 PM
ya thats what i meant i couldnt think of what it was called...say u throw the ball to stop time and u get rid of it on the far side of ythe field like near the sidelines is that intentional grounding or what???

ssorry its kinda confusing
i dont know what your asking, but every spike i've ever seen, has just been thrown at the linemans feet

GRP05
11-26-2006, 12:34 AM
I don't know if this is what you mean, but if a QB is about to get sacked for negative yards, they can throw the ball out of bounds. I think if they toss it inbounds there has to be an eligible receiver though....I'm not really sure.

jrock210
11-26-2006, 03:43 PM
I don't know if this is what you mean, but if a QB is about to get sacked for negative yards, they can throw the ball out of bounds. I think if they toss it inbounds there has to be an eligible receiver though....I'm not really sure.
no i know the ball has to be past the line of scrimmage if its in bounds and he does it on purpose...and i got the answer to my ? so thanks for tryin to figure out what i said:D

Grapeguy
11-26-2006, 03:51 PM
In regard to earlier ? about off. stats- if on a 40 yd. run, a penalty is called 17 yrds from LOS, the runner should be credited with a 17 yd gain, not 7. Same thing on punt & KO returns. Each newspaper probably has their own guy keeping stats, hence the minor differences. The closer the newspaper is to the team, generally the more accurate the stats. I keep stats in my head as the game goes on, something I started doing in high school while standing on the sidelines as a non playing scrub. In my case, I find the stats kept by my local newspaper( Burleson Star) to be more accurate than Ft. Worth Star-Telegram, which are more accurate than DMN( farther away). Hometown papers tend to give credit to the proper player, not mixing up the uniform numbers, which non hometown papers sometimes do. Coaches stats do tend to be inflated, both offense & defensive- stats called into the paper by coaches are almost always higher than those kept by newspapers themselves. At the high school level, there often is no " Official" statistician, so it is hard to get "official" stats.

Thanks again for the insights. One difference I noticed between stats was yardage associated with taking a knee at the end of the game. We did it 3 times from the spread formation which is a 6 or 7 yard loss each time. One set of stats I saw had about 20 yards less rushing offense for SLC than another and the difference was with the Qb yardage. I guess I would not count the negative yardage - just as in baseball when a stolen base is not credited if there's indifference on the part of the D.

ruffshod
11-29-2006, 08:12 PM
I guess this is the right forum for these questions. I've been curious about how the following are recorded stat-wise:

If a punt is blocked, when is it considered a turnover? Is the point where the ball is recovered the determining factor? Must the ball be recovered behind the LOS to be a turnover?

Are all onside KOs recovered by the kicking team considered turnovers?..even if the receiving team never touches the ball?

How is yardage recorded for a running back on a spot foul? For example, an RB gains 40 yards on a carry. However, 17 yds from the LOS holding is called on an offensive player. The ball is now spotted 7 yards ahead of the original LOS and the down doesn't change. Does the RB get credited with the full 40 yds or to the point of the foul (17 yds) or is no rushing attempt recorded at all?
A blocked punt or field goal do not count as turnovers.

The onside kick is a turnover.

And the rb would not be credited with either a carry or any yardage as the penalty would be marked from the line of scrimmage, except when it happens behind the LOS, then it would be a spot foul and marked from there.

yallerjacket
03-13-2007, 09:33 AM
A blocked punt or field goal do not count as turnovers.

The onside kick is a turnover.

And the rb would not be credited with either a carry or any yardage as the penalty would be marked from the line of scrimmage, except when it happens behind the LOS, then it would be a spot foul and marked from there.

Are the NCAA and NFL different when it comes to marking off holding penalties? I know in the NFL, the penalty is 10 yds from the spot of the foul, no matter where it happens. Are the NCAA rules different?

DrEdward
03-26-2007, 09:28 PM
ive noticed that like the "Game Stats" at DS, are different then in the newspaper, which i THINK are diff in the DMN and Star Telegram

The stats shown at Dragon Stadium are recorded real time by a gentleman, and I use the term loosely, since he is an OU fan, based on what he and his spotter see on the field as it occurs. The DMN and Star-Telegram stats are typically generated by their own respective reporters, even though the stats are available from Carroll, if they would ask. Of course, none of the things are official, but there shouldn't be wild gaps in the reported figures.

FootballCrazy727
04-01-2007, 12:22 AM
The stats shown at Dragon Stadium are recorded real time by a gentleman, and I use the term loosely, since he is an OU fan, based on what he and his spotter see on the field as it occurs. The DMN and Star-Telegram stats are typically generated by their own respective reporters, even though the stats are available from Carroll, if they would ask. Of course, none of the things are official, but there shouldn't be wild gaps in the reported figures.
your right there shouldnt be, but there always is. Im shocked sometimes to see the difference in some stats between the Dallas Morning News and the Star-Telegram