Where does this myth come from??

[pack0808]

The myth is when people say running teams in running formations cannot win championships in today's style of 5a texas hs football. Nothing can be further from the truth if you look at the fact's


Where does this come from?? Is it because of SLC or the popularity of the spread em out and gun em type offenses??


What is considers today's football?? let's just look from 1999 to the present then. I think most will agree that those years are considered today's football.

1999 div1 finals Midland Lee (running team in a running formation) beat Eisenhower (running team in a running formation)

1999 div2 finals Garland (running team in a running formation) beat Katy (running team in a running formation)

2000 div1 finals Midland Lee ( running team in a running formation) beat Austin Westlake (passing team in a passing formation)

2000 div2 Katy ( running team in a running formation) beat John Tyler ( running team in a running formation)

2001 div1 Mesquite ( running team in a running formation) beat SA Taft ( running team in a running formation i think??)

2001 div2 Lufkin (passing team in a spread formation) beat Austin Westlake (passing team in a spread formation)

2002 div1 Judson (running team in a running formation) beat Midland (running team in a running formation)

2002 div2 SLC ( passing team in a spred formation) beat SV ( running team in a running formation)

2003 div1 Northshore ( running team in mostly running formations) beat The Woodlands ( passing team in a spread formation)

2003 div2 Katy ( running team in a running formation) beat SLC ( passing team in a spread formation)


2004 div1 Tyler Lee ( balanced team that uses mostly pro sets and some shotgun but runs the majority of the time) beat Spring Westfield ( running team in a running formation (wishbone)

2004 div2 SLC ( passing team in a spread formation) beat SV ( running team in mostly running formations although they did use the spread at times)

So there you go!! look at the facts!! the score since 1999!! running teams in running formations have been to the championship game 16 times to passing teams in passing formations (mostly spread) have been to the championship game 6 times. And i am counting Tyler Lee as a passing team and they are really not. They run more and they are usually in running type formations.

On the championships since 1999 the running teams have won 8 while passing teams in passing formations (mostly spread) have won 4!!

So there is the proof!! That statement cannot be more wrong!! Do not get me wrong i love offenses like my Panthers have, SLC, The Woodlands etc etc etc but to say running teams in so called older school formations cannot win in this day and age at the 5a classification in Texas is completely false. Ok i am glad i got that off my chest. :D

[Redneckn]

I think a lot of that would depend on the teams. If you have a good passing team with a stout defense, they are going to out score the other team almost every time. But if you have a passing team with a weak defense or one that can really only defend the pass, then they are going to get hammered.

Running is all fine and good as long as its going on at some game i am not at.
Clearly, the spectator would rather see a high scoring game and that can (generally) only be had with passing teams.


The success of the offense really relys on the opponents defense.

[dragonsdaddy]

again, you couldn't be more wrong. one of the highest scoring teams in the history of football never and i mean never passed-92 and 93 slc dragons. and 95 lewisville threw some big scores on people and eschewed the pass religiously. gp north shore scored almost at will and they rarely passed. a good offense is a good offense and can light up score boards.

[pack0808]

very very true d-daddy!!

[Redneckn]

Those examples are exceptions.
I guess if you are SLC and you are playing the weak teams, then yes, you could run every down of every game and still score lots.

But if you are SLC and play Longview or Lufkin, you are NOT going to run every single down because (from what I can tell) both of those teams do pretty well against the run and then with the offense they (seem) to have, they would outscore you.


It is better for the viewer if both teams have good high powered offenses with a gun a QB.

That is why ECA has had so much success in La. They have always (mostly) had a gun at QB, they know how to handle the run (usually), and Louisiana schools are notoriously "runners". And if they aint enough, they are runners with mediocre coaches.

[pack0808]

They have not been able to handle a team by the name of Longview that runs almost 90 percent of the time. ;)

[myround0]

The myth is when people say running teams in running formations cannot win championships in today's style of 5a texas hs football. Nothing can be further from the truth if you look at the fact's


Where does this come from?? Is it because of SLC or the popularity of the spread em out and gun em type offenses??


What is considers today's football?? let's just look from 1999 to the present then. I think most will agree that those years are considered today's football.

1999 div1 finals Midland Lee (running team in a running formation) beat Eisenhower (running team in a running formation)

1999 div2 finals Garland (running team in a running formation) beat Katy (running team in a running formation)

2000 div1 finals Midland Lee ( running team in a running formation) beat Austin Westlake (passing team in a passing formation)

2000 div2 Katy ( running team in a running formation) beat John Tyler ( running team in a running formation)

2001 div1 Mesquite ( running team in a running formation) beat SA Taft ( running team in a running formation i think??)

2001 div2 Lufkin (passing team in a spread formation) beat Austin Westlake (passing team in a spread formation)

2002 div1 Judson (running team in a running formation) beat Midland (running team in a running formation)

2002 div2 SLC ( passing team in a spred formation) beat SV ( running team in a running formation)

2003 div1 Northshore ( running team in mostly running formations) beat The Woodlands ( passing team in a spread formation)

2003 div2 Katy ( running team in a running formation) beat SLC ( passing team in a spread formation)


2004 div1 Tyler Lee ( balanced team that uses mostly pro sets and some shotgun but runs the majority of the time) beat Spring Westfield ( running team in a running formation (wishbone)

2004 div2 SLC ( passing team in a spread formation) beat SV ( running team in mostly running formations although they did use the spread at times)

So there you go!! look at the facts!! the score since 1999!! running teams in running formations have been to the championship game 14 times to passing teams in passing formations (mostly spread) have been to the championship game 6 times. And i am counting Tyler Lee as a passing team and they are really not. They run more and they are usually in running type formations.

On the championships since 1999 the running teams have won 7 while passing teams in passing formations (mostly spread) have won 3!!

So there is the proof!! That statement cannot be more wrong!! Do not get me wrong i love offenses like my Panthers have, SLC, The Woodlands etc etc etc but to say running teams in so called older school formations cannot win in this day and age at the 5a classification in Texas is completely false. Ok i am glad i got that off my chest. :D

I agree but you have to have a bit of a passing threat to keep teams honest...

[Redneckn]

You're right. Because Longview is preparted to defend against the pass. They are well coached. Again, I think we are talking exceptions.
Most teams in Texas are not as good as SLC, Longview, and Lufkin.
No teams in Louisiana are as good as ECA.

That is why (imo) ECA doesnt do so hot out of state. Because they have grown used to the La teams sucking so bad. They are coached crappy and they run almost every down. or out of desparation, try and pass.

[pack0808]

I agree but you have to have a bit of a passing threat to keep teams honest...


of course you need a little threat!! Even the oklahoma wishbone teams in the 80's had that threat to pull back and hit the tight end or a rb running a streak. They still ran the ball about 85 to 90 percent though. In a great running offense you just need an efficient enough passing game to keep that in the defenses mind. I agree!! None of these old school type offenses in the 70's and 80's ran the ball 100 percent of the time. I bet there percentages were very similar to the teams i just named. I do not think defenses are that much smarter and better these days vs the run.

[CoppellCowboy57]

It depends how good your running back is doesnt it...

[pack0808]

umm?? most great running offenses have good to great rb's and good ol's while most great passing offenses have a good to great qb with quality receivers and a solid ol. That is what you call common sense!! ;)

[lonny23]

Teams that run the ball typically have better defenses than the one's who pass because they stay on the field longer. A good offense is a good offense and that's determined by scoring points and chewing up yards. There aren't any passing teams that can win a title without running somewhat effectively. Theoretically, you might win a title without being able to pass, but you want the pass to open up the running game some and keep 9 men out of the box. The chances are that a good team might beat you deep in the playoffs if you can't pass. Among the many mistakes Judson made against Westfield, one of their biggest problems was that Westfield had enough speed to stop Judson's big plays and the Rockets didn't have the passing game to bail them out.

[drgnbkr]

You can't go 47 & 1 in 5A without playing some defense. Carroll's D plays against the best offense in the country every day in practice & there is not much they have'nt seen...styles and adjustments win ball games and you better be ready to adjust against a multi option offense or you are in trouble..coaches, as always will start figuring out how to match up with the spread sooner or later, then its back to the lab for the offensive coaches...

[pack0808]

There are many good and bad spread offenses just like there are many poor and bad run offenses. SLC happens to run the spread to perfection. Their spread offense is more complicated then any hs team that i have seen though. The only one that could compare that i have seen is Evangel in their prime.It is amazing hs school kids are able to learn that complex of an offense??

[PowerPack'd]

I wonder if the fact that the running teams have had such success over the past ten years is because the spread is still relatively new in the grand scheme of things. If you looked at the percentage of teams across the state in a given classification that run vs. spread, my guess is the percentages would reflect the success that was depcited by Pack0808. In other words, defenses win championships and the coach is going to put the offensive system in place that he feels most comfortable with. Lufkin still ran the spread last year with one of the best backs in the state. Good personnel can run either offense.

[Redneckn]

Yes, ECA in their 1st prime. 60-0. Passing the ball over 80% of the time. And I know, blah blah blah louisiana schools. Louisiana schools. Texas schools. Alabama school. SouthCarolina school. Missouri school. Mississippi school. Florida school.


Again. What I am saying is that when you have a gun at QB and a good defense, you can dominate.
Maybe this is just myown opinion. It would be something to look at on a national level. I'll have to try and make the time. It would be curious to know.

I do know that me personally, I would rather watch a passing team with a hard core defense.

[pack0808]

I love smash mouth football i must admit!! My Iowa Hawks and Pittsburgh Steelers do it with smash mouth running football and Great Defense!! I still love my Lufkin Panthers offense i must admit. The spread is fun to watch but running teams in running formations are also fun to watch if you love hard hitting football. Yes i know Lufkin still ran the spread with Lane!! Outlaw is not going to change his system for nobody?? But imagaine if Lane was at Garland, Dallas Carter, Judson, or Longview etc etc etc!! Can you imagine the yards he would have got. He would have wore down defenses with that many carries. Heck, he wore down most defenses with only 15 carries in the LP offense. Imagine if he had 30 to 35 carries??

[wide-e-wide]

I love smash mouth football i must admit!! My Iowa Hawks and Pittsburgh Steelers do it with smash mouth running football and Great Defense!! I still love my Lufkin Panthers offense i must admit. The spread is fun to watch but running teams in running formations are also fun to watch if you love hard hitting football. Yes i know Lufkin still ran the spread with Lane!! Outlaw is not going to change his system for nobody?? But imagaine if Lane was at Garland, Dallas Carter, Judson, or Longview etc etc etc!! Can you imagine the yards he would have got. He would have wore down defenses with that many carries. Heck, he wore down most defenses with only 15 carries in the LP offense. Imagine if he had 30 to 35 carries??
\
It would have been ugly....
But he is aggy now...so we can't talk about that anymore....